Results 1 ... 250 for 'cl'...

Do you think that it would be wiser to pick an existing standarized lisp dialect like scheme or cl to write the embedded hdl lang in?

#pest

2023-10-06

Logged on 2023-10-05 11:08:45 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030735 << shinohai had earlier dusted off a cl vtron by esthlos. see his www.

#pest

2023-10-06

http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030746 << Sadly it isn't portable (since afaik no good recipe for building static cl binaries yet) so http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030759 is much more fleshed out atm.

#pest

2023-10-05

http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030735 << shinohai had earlier dusted off a cl vtron by esthlos. see his www.

#pest

2023-10-01

even if just "faux lisp hdl" akin to cl-who

#pest

2023-09-01

Logged on 2023-09-01 20:03:44 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: in the coming months will have time to examine cl vtools and other artifacts, might even be able to piece together a working model in the tmsr fashion

#pest

2023-09-01

*

crtdaydreams in the coming months will have time to examine cl vtools and other artifacts, might even be able to piece together a working model in the tmsr fashion

#pest

2023-07-06

Logged on 2023-07-06 18:56:05 unpx[jonsykkel]: Like I know some languages (e.g. C, Scheme, Python) and understand a bit CL, but I would first need to read a reference manual on ADA before understaing even the gnat build configuration

#pest

2023-07-06

unpx

Like I know some languages (e.g. C, Scheme, Python) and understand a bit CL, but I would first need to read a reference manual on ADA before understaing even the gnat build configuration

#pest

2023-07-06

unpx

I think someone need to think why is using vtools, sane editors, readable code and signed patches necessary. My knowledge on ADA or CL is useless at the moment and won't be able to fill this hole now. I'm thinking about what I need, and since I can't build everything on my own, even if I had the time, I think I should focu

#pest

2023-07-02

cl vtools is very reliable, even made a Makefile for it.

#pest

2023-07-02

*

asciilifeform suspects that the correct pill here would be to resurrect the cl vtools, as shinohai tried to do, but 'over9000 years', asciilifeform still using the 'dirty' one discussed above

#pest

2023-05-15

will resume work on the fountain coder in a few weeks. I got the (currently posted) python impl about as fast as python's own parallelism limitations will permit. CL one oughta in principle have fewer limitations in this regard.

#pest

2023-03-27

jonsykkel

so now i can "assemble" from cl macros etc into masterpieces like this http://zzz.st/up/IF6EkAGu/

#pest

2023-03-27

jonsykkel: what were you trying to do ? ( ... write x86 asmer in cl ? )

#pest

2023-02-08

Logged on 2023-02-08 11:07:54 signpost: well, like it hallucinated a socket package. is it not trained enough on CL code? did I insufficiently prompt the thing to not pretend other code exists

#pest

2023-02-08

well, like it hallucinated a socket package. is it not trained enough on CL code? did I insufficiently prompt the thing to not pretend other code exists

#pest

2022-12-05

Logged on 2022-12-05 12:54:08 phf[awt]: cl-who's (tag :attr value body…) looks the most elegant, but it's the ugliest on the code side, since your attribute collection is a state machine

#pest

2022-12-05

cl-who's (tag :attr value body…) looks the most elegant, but it's the ugliest on the code side, since your attribute collection is a state machine

#pest

2022-12-05

i don't know if you're written much cl-who, but i have, and i'd rather not have to juggle whitespace vs closing strings all over the place. (p "foo " (b " bar ") (i " dog ") " close.")

#pest

2022-11-30

Logged on 2022-11-30 13:53:05 asciilifeform[6]: is of the 'ideal amt of php is 0' school of thought, but doesn't expect to ever have time to recreate wp in cl or the like with own hands, so there it remains

#pest

2022-11-30

*

asciilifeform is of the 'ideal amt of php is 0' school of thought, but doesn't expect to ever have time to recreate wp in cl or the like with own hands, so there it remains

#pest

2022-09-18

*

asciilifeform looking fwd to publication of phf's cl proto

#pest

2022-09-18

phf: does your cl pestron have it ?

#asciilifeform

2022-08-22

phf: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jtQP << here's where I'm at on the CL rewrite, doesn't work yet.

#pest

2022-08-01

(asciilifeform) 2022-08-01 adlai: fwiw, my "write lisp for your soul" drive is leaning more strongly towards "write pure CL functions for computing ideal guitar tuning, given chord progressions of setlist", than "implement the pest spec, then crawl towards roach-for-roach compatibility with roacha"

#pest

2022-08-01

fwiw, my "write lisp for your soul" drive is leaning more strongly towards "write pure CL functions for computing ideal guitar tuning, given chord progressions of setlist", than "implement the pest spec, then crawl towards roach-for-roach compatibility with roacha"

#asciilifeform

2022-08-01

if e.g. PeterL wanted a pure CL reimplementation of 'quantum-espresso', then maybe things are interesting.

#asciilifeform

2022-07-31

http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-30#1010876 << notion wasn't that one could somehow get away with ~no~ structure whatsoever, but that e.g. www page oughta be sumthing like a sexpr representing a cl proggy (for a revived lispm naturally), running inside a restricted evaluation envir, rather than a gnarly ball of ???

#pest

2022-07-27

(asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010729 << the use of "Lisp" (uppercase L, lowercase "isp") to refer to CL, Scheme, etc. collectively is a "Paul Grahamism."

#pest

2022-07-27

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010729 << the use of "Lisp" (uppercase L, lowercase "isp") to refer to CL, Scheme, etc. collectively is a "Paul Grahamism."

#asciilifeform

2022-07-27

shinohai: not using specifically sbcl on android, using cl-repl or whatever the existing android app is

#asciilifeform

2022-07-26

sure but imho makes sense to carry on with it, if sumbody posts a clean cl impl can always switch then

#asciilifeform

2022-07-26

'bird^H^H^Hblatta in the hand is worth 2 in cl' or how did it go.

#asciilifeform

2022-07-18

there was a brief period even when cl symbols weren't recognized by lazylock, even if you had (require 'cl) or whatever. such underhanded nanny state behavior

#pest

2022-07-18

emacs got hit by wreckers, like everything else. i dropped out around the time when they “deprecated cl package!11” in favor of modern™ and modular™ cl-lib. main improvement of cl-lib is that all the cl symbols are mandatory prefixed by cl-

#pest

2022-07-16

and if y'all thought ‘say’ was ghetto, here's how not to do nick completion: (loop for p being each packet do (intern (string-upcase (red-packet-speaker p)) :cl-user))

#pest

2022-07-15

gregorynyssa: i've a cl serpent, from while back, but not cycles to do anyffin useful w/it presently

#asciilifeform

2022-07-09

would there be anything wrong with __multiple__ cl implementations?

#asciilifeform

2022-07-08

*

signpost did some farting around with cl ncurses libs yesterday.

#pest

2022-07-08

a++. phf even if not 100% 'for the ages' quality, consider to post; a cl pestron is a major win imho

#pest

2022-07-02

phf: d00d seems to have enuff exposure to cl that oughta know sumthing re subj, is what's astonishing here

#asciilifeform

2022-06-28

anyone hacking a cl implementation of pest yet?

#asciilifeform

2022-06-24

still not 100% clear to asciilifeform how differs from cl's 'element-type' or how pertains to 'automagically win from coprocessors'

#asciilifeform

2022-06-24

verisimilitude: similar to the fill in cl neh

#asciilifeform

2022-06-22

this btw is good % of ' what did asciilifeform learn from naggum ' -- formerly asciilifeform was 'zoological' proponent of scheme pov, and has little patience for 'cl culture' (such as it was) , but after eating herr n 's cll thrds led to think

#asciilifeform

2022-06-17

actually moved to mcclim from w/e the cl Qt binding is called.

#pest

2022-06-17

*

asciilifeform at one time started on a cl pestron, but not got far before sank into salt mines again

#pest

2022-06-17

asciilifeform: i've always been using own cl pestron, but i switched from reading logs to hand unpacking packets. the decoder is there, but the pipeline is manual :)

#pest

2022-06-17

phf: are you using own cl pestron nao ?

#pest

2022-06-09

Logged on 2022-06-09 12:14:44 phf: and to wrap this thread found a very old screenshot of mine of using cl-pdf to pack edgy comic book into a pdf container :D http://glyf.org/screenshots/osx_04-Aug-2006_230359.png

#asciilifeform

2022-06-09

and to wrap this thread found a very old screenshot of mine of using cl-pdf to pack edgy comic book into a pdf container :D http://glyf.org/screenshots/osx_04-Aug-2006_230359.png

#asciilifeform

2022-06-08

jonsykkel: as far as macro compilation, no, but its presence makes one lean towards it, which means that one is more inclined to use cl-who's syntax, which makes interop with a custom syntax library somewhat harder

#asciilifeform

2022-06-08

btcbase is built with cl-who, i suspect signpost's deedbot and co the same

#asciilifeform

2022-06-08

well, cl-who is not going to be 3 lines, though other similar systems are about all teh same. main "feature" or cl-who is that it's macrocompiled into a sequence of pre-interpolated string writes. (:p (:b "this is " (str data))) -> (write-string "<p><b>this is") (write-string data)

#asciilifeform

2022-06-08

*

asciilifeform was thinking 'cl-who' lol

#asciilifeform

2022-06-08

wai not cl-who or similar?

#asciilifeform

2022-06-06

... if phf posts a self-contained cl pestronics lib, could be integrated directly into bots etc. nifty

#asciilifeform

2022-06-03

*

asciilifeform ftr also was never able to shake the notion that 'too big'. re cl also

#asciilifeform

2022-04-23

Logged on 2022-04-22 23:14:53 crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-22#1098025 << will be inclined to use the cl impl. :D might make a few additions that I've been thinking about

#asciilifeform

2022-04-23

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-22#1098025 << will be inclined to use the cl impl. :D might make a few additions that I've been thinking about

#asciilifeform

2022-04-19

crtdaydreams: I probably missed your self-introduction, if there were one; you have CL experience?

#asciilifeform

2022-04-19

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-19#1096938 << imho it was a nifty item, and good example of efficient cl, sumthing of which not many posted publicly. but, again, won't make 'moralistic' wank outta it, if author not feels it to be publication-worthy, or not has time/inclination to answer q's re mechanisms, or whatever reason, then not post.

#asciilifeform

2022-04-19

Logged on 2022-04-19 04:05:30 cdd: is not sure if this logotron is the one, thought it was written in cl

#asciilifeform

2022-04-19

*

cdd is not sure if this logotron is the one, thought it was written in cl

#asciilifeform

2022-04-19

by the way, I found the scrollback about the various options to CL:EVAL-WHEN kind of... horrifying.

#asciilifeform

2022-04-12

i probably should've rewritten the bot from cl-irc to raw afer i moved to sbcl, because i could never get it to be particularly reliable

#asciilifeform

2022-04-04

Logged on 2020-12-28 11:53:09 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-28#1027392 << establishment mouthpieces always follow, if not explicitly state, mussolini's 'for us and ours -- everything; for others -- the law'. recall for instance the 'lisp is slow'(tm) folx who carefully set up discussion so that unix load time not counted, but cl runtime's -- is, or pret

#asciilifeform

2022-04-01

current server/client are in scheme. i can do CL, python, C on request

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

*

asciilifeform fwiw has seen some commercial adaism, and all of it had an overwhelming diana flavour. what in cl world was once called 'writing fortran in lisp'

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

Logged on 2022-03-31 17:25:37 adlai: in the real world, or at least, in the literature that humans write about the real world, individual units of meaning (whether written words, spoken sounds, or even gestures and icons) have different meanings in different contexts. so I find that CL corresponds much more closely to thought processes, than Scheme.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

likely would be easier to bake a reasonable mod exp in cl than to ffiize ffa

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

'litmus' only uses ffa for the mod.exp so really is 2-3ln of cl

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

*

adlai posted pure CL hash algos, does not recall doing gpg

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

iirc someone ( adlai ? ) at one pt posted a pure cl gpg verifier

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

in the real world, or at least, in the literature that humans write about the real world, individual units of meaning (whether written words, spoken sounds, or even gestures and icons) have different meanings in different contexts. so I find that CL corresponds much more closely to thought processes, than Scheme.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

this seems fine, although in CL, the most common violation of that is that a symbol can be dereferenced separately as a value and as a function, symbols often name types and classes, and there are other namespaces

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

PeterL

adlai: I think that is a simmilar answer to what was said before, Scheme is prettier but CL is more pragmatically useful

#asciilifeform

2022-03-31

PeterL: not really; I used to believe that the channel had a strong CL bias. I recommend CL for practical projects, and only learning Scheme if you are learning purely for an intellectual diversion and do not plan on writing or editing much practical code .

#asciilifeform

2022-03-30

phf: are you baking a cl pestron ?

#asciilifeform

2022-03-27

"let's throw away CL and make clojure" -> "let's throw away clojure and make racket" -> (to be continued)

#asciilifeform

2022-03-26

current stations are blatta and signposts wip cl build, yes?

#asciilifeform

2022-03-25

*

signpost can poast the CL item sometime after cleanup too.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-25

Logged on 2022-03-24 17:25:17 crtdaydreams: ~reimplement~ emacs in cl won't cut it for a next-generation editor

#asciilifeform

2022-03-24

i know people like this from CL, ELisp, Scheme

#asciilifeform

2022-03-24

~reimplement~ emacs in cl won't cut it for a next-generation editor

#asciilifeform

2022-03-23

not speaking of the history, speaking of what COND is in every CL impl on my machine.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

Lisp = code is lists; Emacs Lisp = Lisp + closures; Scheme = Lisp + closures + tail calls; CL = Lisp + closures +generic functions

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

tail recursion elimination is the essential feature that leads directly to scheme's characteristic coding style (in stark contrast to CL and other lisps)

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

this isn't different from CL in my mind except that at a certain point folks that had done ^ independently came to some agreements at an industrial level on what much of the useful higher-level language was.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

Logged on 2022-03-22 14:41:56 mangol: CL's strength is that you get ~every way to solve a problem out of the box. weakness is that it's hard to resist mental masturbation

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087121 << I found CL displaced arrays useful for the CL fountain code, perhaps there's similar in scheme

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087107 << only code I've written is the fountain code impl on my blog, which is in python. that said, I've gotten about halfway into a CL impl of same with proper parallelism

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

the above is scheme code. you can do the same in CL but functional programming and recursion is somewhat less elegant there, so CL coders do less of iit

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

i never compare 5 different ways to solve something in scheme. in CL i did that all the time

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

if you go from Haskell to ML, it's the same "my god, these people just solve the problem and move on" culture shock as you get moving from CL to Scheme

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

CL's strength is that you get ~every way to solve a problem out of the box. weakness is that it's hard to resist mental masturbation

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

you can write CL about as elegant as Scheme, and Scheme about as practical as CL, but takes work

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

otherwise, scheme is way more elegant and jewel-like than CL. CL is way more practical out of the gate.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

PeterL

for a lisp beginner, would you suggest learning scheme or CL?

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

my personal opinion is that CL and Scheme should be merged, but that's several years away at best, and very controversial

#asciilifeform

2022-03-22

can add a "scheme.lisp" wrapper file for running the same code in CL implementations if there's interest. or one of the other lispers here can rewrite in CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

a comfortable OS for general use is at least 100x the size of CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

mangol: is interesting how 'cl is large language' did not age well, what with <1k entries in clhs index -- compare to just about any 'modern' item

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

(again AFAICT) that's where the dodgy parts of elisp come from. and why they insist on adding incompatible versions of stuff that CL already has

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

many elisp heroes also grok wider lisp culture, and i expect they would be happy to help make their stuff compatible with CL if they can do so with moderate effort

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

pun: dynamic variable == "special variable" in CL spec parlance)

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

which means you can start with elisp code, and gradually massage it toward proper CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

but the basic language is almost like (the non-CLOS subset of) CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

i once looked thru all the CL Emacs projects i could find, and none of them could condescend to implement something GNU Emacs / ELisp compatible

#asciilifeform

2022-03-20

imho the right way to start is to take maxima, then start CL-ifying Emacs into the same lisp image

#asciilifeform

2022-03-18

*

signpost had a bitch of a time with cl+ssl years back

#asciilifeform

2022-03-18

when i was using CL i was using SBCL and the above 3

#asciilifeform

2022-03-17

mangol: much of asciilifeform's thinking re subj is readily found in the logs. will comment tho, that 'cl is obese' begins to seem like a rather dated ('90s) observation if stood next to current-day atrocities

#asciilifeform

2022-03-17

asciilifeform: unless you're exhausted from yesterday's log, would be nice to hear your latest thinking on fits-in-head solutions vs big systems like CL and Ada. do you have an up to date blog post on the topic?

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

re: #asciilifeform and incremental approaches -- Naggum was a staunch proponent of incrementalism. notably, he lambasted young people who think they can improve upon CL by starting from scratch

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

Logged on 2022-03-16 13:55:32 mangol: Emacs Lisp is approx. what you get when you take CLOS out of CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

Logged on 2022-03-16 13:55:32 mangol: Emacs Lisp is approx. what you get when you take CLOS out of CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

Emacs Lisp is approx. what you get when you take CLOS out of CL

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

the parts of CL that aren't CLOS (or CLOS-like) are trad. lisp with some cruft cleaned up, and excellent libraries.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

verisimilitude: to a useful approximation, CL is CLOS, and CLOS is generic functions (i.e. method-oriented OOP)

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

interestingly, a lot of CL programmers (myself included) don't use GFs very much, sticking closer to the trad. dialect. like many C++ programmers stick to C style

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

verisimilitude: re: Ada, APL, CL -- sounds like you're the language connoisseur of the channel

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

generic functions are the essence of CL (as distinguished from Maclisp and Scheme)

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

CL = Lisp + closures + generic functions

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

neat. is deedbot written in CL?

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

mangol: typically CL over here, python "in anger" sometimes.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

CL vs Scheme makes for a great flamebait topic like that. Naggum had at least one insightful remark on it (i.e. that Scheme is incompatible with CL and so dilutes Lisp's brand). i consider it partly obsolete.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-16

re: the particular subj, I admit to not having tried the more recent schemes, but find most of what I need in a lisp in CL, and lack of moving target a plus.

#asciilifeform

2022-03-08

can happen with anything handling a socket. I assume there's something slightly wrong in the cl-irc lib, or my use of it, but hasn't been harmful enough to burn cycles on it.

#asciilifeform

2022-02-05

cl-ircbot

Testing cl-irc connection

#pest

2022-01-26

imho would muchly benefit from e.g. cl's clos

#pest

2022-01-07

grunted the CL one forward a bit too. displaced arrays are mighty nice for slicing up an underlying buffer.

#asciilifeform

2021-12-30

imho whole thing'd be a pg or so of cl

#asciilifeform

2021-12-16

*

signpost intends to sit down with blatta himself after current CL port and stand one up again.

#asciilifeform

2021-12-16

thimbronion

signpost I'm gonna finish Blatta, but perhaps after I can help out with a CL version in some way.

#asciilifeform

2021-12-16

right now porting my fountain code thinger to CL. the py version I wrote proved out the math but is useless given python's crippled parallelism

#asciilifeform

2021-12-16

*

shinohai eagerly awaits to see if signpost publishes a cl pest-o-tron ...

#asciilifeform

2021-12-11

Logged on 2021-12-10 20:52:50 signpost: has been spending time rereading Dune, and writing CL

#asciilifeform

2021-12-11

*

signpost has been spending time rereading Dune, and writing CL

#asciilifeform

2021-11-30

gotta have the repl running to get the "working clay with hands" sense of writing cl

#asciilifeform

2021-11-30

billymg

signpost: what's the best way for someone to write a quick 'hello world' in CL on a gentoo box? i see a list of implementations here and i'm not sure where to start

#asciilifeform

2021-11-30

*

signpost already encountering broken-headed things in his pylubytron that fall out naturally writing in CL

#asciilifeform

2021-11-30

semi-relatedly, I am writing CL for the first time in years, and it's a joy.

#asciilifeform

2021-11-28

Logged on 2021-11-27 16:09:10 signpost: anyone started a pest in CL btw?

#asciilifeform

2021-11-27

anyone started a pest in CL btw?

#asciilifeform

2021-11-16

Logged on 2021-11-14 11:53:11 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in misc. finds : a quite compact cl ircd, possibly usable as a pestron frontend.

#asciilifeform

2021-11-14

cool, since deedbot is cl, might be handy for bolting to pest

#asciilifeform

2021-11-14

cl-ircd looks pretty neat asciilifeform ... far more compact than that nea-ircd I toyed with for a while.

#asciilifeform

2021-11-14

meanwhile, in misc. finds : a quite compact cl ircd, possibly usable as a pestron frontend.

#asciilifeform

2021-10-28

Logged on 2020-12-28 11:45:08 asciilifeform: loong ago, also had experiments w/ trading bots (was pre-btcism, however) and w/ roughly same aim as adlai's -- laboured under the naive notion that could e.g. apply well-written cl to where the industrial chrematists were stuck w/ indian java monkeys, and exploit, to take 'some of what they thought was theirs'; see also lenin's 'грабь награбленное'(tm)(r).

#asciilifeform

2021-08-18

that is CL's (defun free-tail (linked-list) ..)!

#asciilifeform

2021-08-18

well, that is my range when using Clozure CL, that has more compact representations for ~everything than SBCL ; back when I used SBCL for this, I routinely had the "toss accumulables to GC" preempted by a segfault killing the whole process.

#asciilifeform

2021-08-18

I doubt that any of the parts that are not standard CL are finicky enough to care whether it's arm64 or x86_64

#asciilifeform

2021-08-09

Logged on 2020-12-28 11:53:09 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-28#1027392 << establishment mouthpieces always follow, if not explicitly state, mussolini's 'for us and ours -- everything; for others -- the law'. recall for instance the 'lisp is slow'(tm) folx who carefully set up discussion so that unix load time not counted, but cl runtime's -- is, or pret

#asciilifeform

2021-07-08

shinohai: in logs found in fact shinohai's cl base58 , but was all..

#asciilifeform

2021-07-01

Logged on 2021-06-30 15:30:40 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-30#1041859 << cl-graph + graphviz

#asciilifeform

2021-06-30

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-30#1041859 << cl-graph + graphviz

#asciilifeform

2021-05-24

Logged on 2021-05-24 10:20:12 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-23#1037428 << this is perhaps the best thing about CL, that all who would change it are dead or retired.

#asciilifeform

2021-05-24

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-23#1037428 << this is perhaps the best thing about CL, that all who would change it are dead or retired.

#asciilifeform

2021-05-19

billymg: say, a cl proggy w/ 0 lib deps

#asciilifeform

2021-03-09

less-trivial soln nr2 is to [ab]use CL:RANDOM-STATE

#asciilifeform

2021-03-09

Logged on 2021-02-21 10:32:03 trinque: verisimilitude: I'd like to see an implementation of this in Ada or CL, and haven't the time currently https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~petar/papers/maymounkov-online.pdf

#asciilifeform

2021-02-21

verisimilitude: I'd like to see an implementation of this in Ada or CL, and haven't the time currently https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~petar/papers/maymounkov-online.pdf

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

*

asciilifeform wonders whether adlai is also baking a nic outta 74xxx and driver for it in cl etc, or notyet

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

aha! I do remember that now, though was item I placed on desk and forgot, as I had not yet really dove into cl

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

you can still place a plausible upper bound to the headcount of CL programmers, where by "CL programmer" I mean someone who, while perhaps not able to rattle off CLHS entries from memory, can at least find the relevant sections within a workable amount of time

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

*

asciilifeform only ever wrote 'commercial cl' in this form

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

adlai: i suspect most cl proggies put to use industrially in past 20y, were not even known about in detail by whoever paid. 'make the 4tonne robot move on spec' 'here's a box + softs' and in'ere is cl, or whatever, and only archaeologists could find out about it.

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

*

adlai supposes that there are few enough CL programmers of this level of fluency on the planet that "have you ever written CL for an employer" actually is a measurably doxxing question

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

it's a good language for writing efficient algorithms, and you actually can make the compiled code efficient on a given machine; the main reason this becomes a waste of human time is that CL is a good language for generality and portability, and once you begin digging into the details of compiled code... maybe your experience is different, verisimilitude, but I actually find that the will to live is

#asciilifeform

2021-02-04

*

adlai recommends both avoiding the urge to optimise CL code, and recognising that it is possible to write performant code in CL

#asciilifeform

2021-01-19

mmhm, and the various "mom and pop shop" CL programmer consultancies are all over the place. you may have even worked at one of those!

#asciilifeform

2020-12-29

verisimilitude: moore, and in general 1980s processes. for that matter symbolics co. had a 100% cl top to bottom ic design thing, 'ns'

#asciilifeform

2020-12-28

Logged on 2020-12-28 11:53:09 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-28#1027392 << establishment mouthpieces always follow, if not explicitly state, mussolini's 'for us and ours -- everything; for others -- the law'. recall for instance the 'lisp is slow'(tm) folx who carefully set up discussion so that unix load time not counted, but cl runtime's -- is, or pretend that year is 1960

#asciilifeform

2020-12-28

verisimilitude

It would be nice to have CL and Gnat on it, though; I've but GNU APL, currently.

#asciilifeform

2020-12-28

Logged on 2020-12-28 03:43:03 adlai: ... and yet the CL 'community', and lack thereof, get ridiculed for the ubiquitous NIH-syndrome.

#asciilifeform

2020-12-28

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-28#1027392 << establishment mouthpieces always follow, if not explicitly state, mussolini's 'for us and ours -- everything; for others -- the law'. recall for instance the 'lisp is slow'(tm) folx who carefully set up discussion so that unix load time not counted, but cl runtime's -- is, or pretend that year is 1960

#asciilifeform

2020-12-28

*

asciilifeform loong ago, also had experiments w/ trading bots (was pre-btcism, however) and w/ roughly same aim as adlai's -- laboured under the naive notion that could e.g. apply well-written cl to where the industrial chrematists were stuck w/ indian java monkeys, and exploit, to take 'some of what they thought was theirs'; see also lenin's 'грабь награбленное'(tm)(r).

#asciilifeform

2020-12-28

... and yet the CL 'community', and lack thereof, get ridiculed for the ubiquitous NIH-syndrome.

#asciilifeform

2020-12-21

jurov: if you have cl q's , don't hesitate to ask in #a

#therealbitcoin

2020-11-09

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-08#1024537 << i recall the context of these wanks : scheme aficionados spammed the group, and 'spat from on high' on cl, despite having no professional-grade compiler (a la what naggum et al were using for cl) to offer .

#asciilifeform

2020-11-08

Someone named William Clinger was complaining that CL having two namespace "creates a bias against higher-order thinking."

#asciilifeform

2020-10-30

*

adlai also glanced at the various offerings of "mathematics software" hanging loww off the tree of not-quite-abandoned CL programs, and concluded that not a single one of the special-purpose programs is likely to be a general-purpose one

#asciilifeform

2020-10-17

Logged on 2020-10-17 15:13:54 adlai: 'the nerve' = documentation strings, as specified in CL, are slightly unwieldy. in my email to you, I gave the example of an idiom wherein #.(format () ..) is used to unwrap lines... at this point, I prefer to reduce the amount of clever magic in that code, rather than increase it.

#asciilifeform

2020-10-17

so documentation strings, in their proper CL location, are good for concise descriptions that elide implementation details, whereas comments allow much more flexibility and depth; and I specifically want the implementation investigated, rather than the interface documented.

#asciilifeform

2020-10-17

'the nerve' = documentation strings, as specified in CL, are slightly unwieldy. in my email to you, I gave the example of an idiom wherein #.(format () ..) is used to unwrap lines... at this point, I prefer to reduce the amount of clever magic in that code, rather than increase it.

#asciilifeform

2020-10-17

Logged on 2020-10-17 09:15:49 adlai: ... when I daydream about "what gifts of executable deedbot poetry can I send alf", a cl response to that post is higher priority than brushing dust off the printouts of early FFA chapters (these exist!)

#asciilifeform

2020-10-17

... when I daydream about "what gifts of executable deedbot poetry can I send alf", a cl response to that post is higher priority than brushing dust off the printouts of early FFA chapters (these exist!)

#asciilifeform

2020-10-11

thimbronion

lekythion project status: Spent the weekend doing the work to resolve several issues working together to cause the lisp image to hang while attemping to download urls in the log. Pro-tip: don't try to download content of indeterminate size into memory. Also spent some time figuring out how to organize a cl project so as to ease the pain of restarting the system.

#alethepedia

2020-09-26

verisimilitude

Give me an update on that CL, adlai.

#asciilifeform

2020-09-25

thimbronion

So I found a cl version of the lucene indexer (actually based on the ruby version). Messed around with it a bit this morning - seems to work, although the tests are very old and don't run.

#alethepedia

2020-09-24

another angry old cl programmer, https://github.com/kennytilton

#alethepedia

2020-08-08

I stopped using Emacs after that. played for a while with the various broken CL attempts to reimplement Emacs: Climacs. Hemlock. etc. now I just edit code using Ed, MicroEMACS, or some Windows editor.

#asciilifeform

2020-08-07

I think in this case, they made sure all the bug-ridden half-implementations of CL contain *it*

#asciilifeform

2020-07-26

verisimilitude: the sad part there is that ffiism is part of all but the most trivial cl proggy (either directly or via libraryism) on acct of the fossilized standard and its failure to include almost any i/o apart from console

#asciilifeform

2020-07-26

i say this because verisimilitude is cl aficionado and knows that to read proggy w/ anyffin more than trivial macros is quite difficult

#asciilifeform

2020-07-26

verisimilitude: think of ada generics as similar to cl macros, but with 9000x moar fascism, i.e. it is ~very~ easy to write a visually-correct proggy w/em that nevertheless chokes the compiler (because it doesn't know how to prove that it is guaranteed correct under the given elaboration order)

#asciilifeform

2020-07-24

verisimilitude: if yer interested in cpu design, and want to get at it from '1st principles', write a simple circuit sim in yer preferred interactive lang (e.g. cl). a la 'verilator'

#asciilifeform

2020-07-03

asciilifeform: I wonder why none of the numerous projects to re-write Emacs in CL were finished.

#asciilifeform

2020-06-06

fwiw, the code there is a classic example of abusing CL's flexibility, although I'll let shinohai read for himself to test his stomach for barf-worthy lispisms

#asciilifeform

2020-06-06

I guess the 'national sport' of CL is to reinvent as many wheels as possible.

#asciilifeform

2020-06-05

I was using cl-json + drakma

#asciilifeform

2020-06-01

*

adlai has not been following their development closely, since CL compilers don't exactly warrant using last week's latest patch for whatever new crap, although... perhaps another wave of GNU refugees is on its way

#asciilifeform

2020-06-01

meanwhile, in lispisms, it appears that recent GCC has broken the compilation process of at least two of the open source CL compilers

#asciilifeform

2020-05-30

i did try (initially succeeded, but could not reproduce on all irons) cl 'elephant' once

#asciilifeform

2020-05-26

i'm not certain what you mean by "the CL os", maybe masamune? the dude working on that vanished a while ago

#asciilifeform

2020-05-06

*

spyked will have to dig a bit into cl-irc internals to figure how ircbot behaves there, there's prolly some more obscurity in the cl "stream" abstraction

#asciilifeform

2020-04-17

spyked

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-04-16#1010296 <-- I s'ppose; yesterday I found it stuck in a cl exception, dunno wtf. I'd sit and debug, only the issue is reproducible once per month on average.

#asciilifeform

2020-04-10

iirc, clisp is the only cl interpreter, which is quite useful for debugging (everything else has to fake cl:step)

#asciilifeform

2020-04-10

even if there is no cl provided by your package manager: cc can build ecl or clisp, and either of those can build sbcl

#asciilifeform

2020-04-02

jfw: thanks. I have barely ever used telnet and wasn't confident I could interact with the server by sending commands by typing in / enter. And I also did not know off the top of my head the routine for identifying (with the NICK and USER message). I read through cl-irc but a while ago and there are many parts that I did not fully digest.

#ossasepia

2020-04-02

didn't you read through cl-irc too?

#ossasepia

2020-03-28

re CL, I suppose SBCL is the de facto standard update at least around here, since the standard doesn't include sockets

#ossasepia

2020-03-28

possibly the best thing about CL is merely that it was standardized once, and then everyone (and every company) that could've mustered a significant update to said standard died.

#ossasepia

2020-03-28

the cl-irc dep list is maybe 5 or so packages deep, could be worse.

#ossasepia

2020-03-28

isn't bad for writing parsers either, built for manipulating lists, though currently I'm still using cl-irc.

#ossasepia

2020-03-19

also dunno if it's a terminology difference between your code or cl-irc and irc protocol, but in the latter you PART or are KICKed from a channel, disconnect isn't an irc message

#ossasepia

2020-03-19

Logged on 2020-03-19 15:54:44 asciilifeform: shinohai: cl-irc is iirc what trinque orig. used. 'tis buggy (dun reconnect worth a damn, tho iirc trinque had a workaround)

#asciilifeform

2020-03-19

asciilifeform: It has a section for defining irc numeric codes that I don't recal being in cl-irc irignally, but don't remember tbh

#asciilifeform

2020-03-19

cl-irc2 a bit different, I mirrored on www: http://btc.info.gf/devel/lisp/cl-irc2/

#asciilifeform

2020-03-19

shinohai: cl-irc is iirc what trinque orig. used. 'tis buggy (dun reconnect worth a damn, tho iirc trinque had a workaround)

#asciilifeform

2020-03-19

I met this fellow from Japan that had old, unused lisp logbot. Uses cl-irc2 and is quite stable, though the www part needs work.

#asciilifeform

2020-03-09

shinohai: re esthlos's vtron -- given that cl has built-in bignum, you could prolly write mod-exp in coupla line

#asciilifeform

2020-03-09

could. but also could simply write verifier in cl, there's no particular reason public ops can't be made in the native lang

#asciilifeform

2020-03-09

( possib. that was in somebody else's cl vtron ? )

#asciilifeform

2020-02-29

or run it periodially in a thread, logging to a file. See how it evolves over time. This is a rough sort of approach; maybe sbcl has some fancier memory profiling. Or more study of your own + cl-irc code couldn't hurt.

#ossasepia

2020-02-22

adlai: i wrote maybe 100kloc of cl and do not consider self qualified to tell others 'how to style' in it

#asciilifeform

2020-02-22

adlai: my objection there is a bit different -- just how many loc (and of what) in cl did that fella write, to then 'i'ma propose style guide' ?

#asciilifeform

2020-02-18

verisimilitude: the issue is that no matter how beautiful 'style guide' you make, it aint gonna bring cl on pc back to life

#asciilifeform

2020-02-18

this is where i admit that i'm not terribly preoccupied with cl style. it is imho somewhere on the bottom of list of defensible priorities for a cl aficionado .

#asciilifeform

2020-02-18

given as elementarily most folx who write ~any amt of cl, use the robotic stylization of the above

#asciilifeform

2020-02-18

btw verisimilitude , imho if you want folx to consider a cl styleguide, gotta publish a modded commonlispmode/slime to go with it

#asciilifeform

2020-02-01

shinohai: is that cl keccack from http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-part-2-cl-keccak/ ?

#agriculturalsupremacy

2020-02-01

Also whaack I saw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-01#1016754 ... if you are lisper I temporarily hacked phf's vdiff to work w/ cl-keccak http://btc.info.gf/devel/lisp/esthlos-v/patches/esthlos-v_makefile-and-vdiff.vpatch

#agriculturalsupremacy

2020-01-29

spyked

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957335 <-- yeah, someone accidentally a verb there. seems using CL's built-in reader opens the door to all sorts of weird if improperly handled. I think I got it right this time tho

#trilema

2020-01-25

diana_coman: Not too productive a day. I felt quite tired starting around 3:30pm, not sure why - i've been getting 8h+ sleep consistently. (minus the night of the fiesta, but that was almost a week ago) Anyways, I went through more of the cl-irc source. I am fairly certain I found a bug pertaining to handling unknown replies from the server. A simple patch should make my bot gracefully ignore+log a message that it can't parse inste

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

one way to look at it though, is that a CL environment is like an operating system in its own right, with memory-resident compiler even

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

jfw: I would love input on the CL memory problem

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

whaack, would you like any more input from me on the CL memory thing or are you set for now with tracking down what the code does and what might be the problem?

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

diana_coman

whaack: yes, cl-irc part

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

^ do you m ean the cl-irc part?

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

diana_coman

whaack: if you are done with reading&understanding that cl part you are using, then write up what you have and then add to it what problems you are trying to solve + what options you see

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

diana_coman

whaack: wait, so are you done with the fixes and otherwise figuring out the cl part and everything else?

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

And I read through a good chunk of cl-irc. I was going through some of the utility functions in the code that handle formatting, string parsing, encoding/decodings, etc. That was mind numbingly boring. There were certain large functions/macros that I did not grok and will have to tackle again. Tomorrow I will read more of the high level code.

#ossasepia

2020-01-24

diana_coman: EOD Report: Stuck to schedule, except I didn't have time for my Spanish study. For TheFleet I ran into a dead end trying to find a way to reduce the memory my program uses. asdf at a minimum consumes ~25MB. I tried to load asdf -> load my program -> unload asdf, but afaik there's no way to "unload" in CL. On another front, I investigated and discovered the reason for the join/disconnect dance. I was disconnecting becau

#ossasepia

2020-01-23

about the function (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file) . This prints out the paths to all the files loaded in the dependency tree. I ran (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file) after running (ql:quickload :fleetbot) (which depends on cl-irc, cl-postgres, ircbot, and postmodern.) I saw many paths in the manifest file that were not part of fleetbot's dependency tree. It seems quicklisp loads everything in local-projects by default. This may be what

#ossasepia

2020-01-23

trinque: I have a problem with my bot's sbcl process using too much memory. I noticed that loading quicklisp alone puts ~70MB of junk in the environment. So I am considering avoiding quicklisp attempting to load ircbot, cl-irc, and all subsequent dependencies using a series of calls to the (load "/path/to/file.lisp") function. I learned

#ossasepia

2020-01-21