#asciilifeform | 2020-06-01

bought the serial dongle too, for to get kernel debug printola

~ 2 hours 28 minutes ~

02:47

asciilifeform: I have considered, more than once in my life, searching for a job as a professional electronics recycler, since the small-scale dabbling that I've done (following Tilden&Hrynkiw's b00k!) were one of the few projects that I actually enjoyed in my ~2-decades long experience with 'computing'

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02:48

regrettably Tel Avivis seem to think that you can just leave electrotrash either on the curb, or in the bin, and the entropy fairy will take care of it

02:48

however, there may be enlightened places where one can actually earn some sorta wage handling this responsibly

02:48

your thoughts, as always, are most welcome.

02:49

*

adlai also has begun, over the past years, accumulating empty egg cartons of odds'n'ends... not nearly enough to build anything interesting, due to not having much electrotrash to begin with!

~ 7 hours 17 minutes ~

10:07

In Torvald idiocy today: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=bdc48fa11e46f867ea4d75fa59ee87a7f48be144

~ 17 minutes ~

10:25

shinohai: sad, but not surprise imho

~ 19 minutes ~

10:44

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-06-01#1013980 << afaik 100% of present-day 'electronics recycle' consists simply of shipment to china for gold recovery. the days when there were interesting/salvageable components in konsoomer irons, are long gone

10:44

snsabot

Logged on 2020-06-01 02:47:15 adlai: asciilifeform: I have considered, more than once in my life, searching for a job as a professional electronics recycler, since the small-scale dabbling that I've done (following Tilden&Hrynkiw's b00k!) were one of the few projects that I actually enjoyed in my ~2-decades long experience with 'computing'

10:57

!w poll

10:57

Polling 11 nodes...

10:57

205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.096s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.050s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.060s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609 (Operator: asciilifeform)

10:57

108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609 (Operator: asciilifeform)

10:57

205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.087s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.186s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.236s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.723s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.586s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632609

10:57

103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.651s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=632606

~ 20 minutes ~

11:17

i dunno i still like crt monitors in lab, so thou shalt use 80 columns period.

~ 32 minutes ~

11:49

shinohai: i use an 80col printer for instance. (and emacs calibrated to 80col. and so on.)

11:49

snsabot

Logged on 2020-05-08 12:21:45 asciilifeform: in tangentially-related noose, i finally installed one of these . pretty great for taking maffs into sunlight. 0 oven warm-up wait, unlike laser printer. and ~indestructible, no rubber belts, nada. an' fanfold is great for reading, always stays in order.

11:53

from my pov, folx who think '80col is optional' are roughly similar to those who believe 'washing is optional'

~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~

13:03

my vim has been @ 80 for as long as i can rmember

13:12

brb

13:24

shinohai: there are some egregiously braindamaged langs that make breaking up lines difficult (e.g. python) but still..

13:31

asciilifeform: I have noticed the increasing prevalence of blobs and ICs. sad to see that your experience confirms this. I guess most of the value of recovering the macroscale components from e.g. dead mobo is for hobby projects such as teaching a young adlai what an RCL circuit is... if only Tilden&co had included a few words about math, rather than just endless circuit diagrams!

13:33

while the differential equations of e.g. driven oscillator are far outside of what my intuition can solve-without-solving, these are actually understandable with a bit of work and the math is conspicuously absent from every place that is not an academic curriculum

13:34

adlai: not only blobs (i assume you meant caseless ic) , but smt parts , and the plague of pb-free high-temp solder (try an' remove sumthing w/out destroying it..)

13:34

adlai: horowitz&hill for the maffs

13:37

oblig : asciilifeform's cheatsheet re dealing w/ pb-free atrocities

13:37

'blob' is iirc a word from the BEAM book, that refers to things like the fat opaque bit on a cable next to the plug, that has to be cut open to reveal its contents.

13:38

at least not epoxy..

13:38

that book's philosophy burns down to "never do anything in a microcontroller, that can't be done using standard electric components, replacable individually should a single one fail"

13:39

asciilifeform: familiar with Tilden's book? fwiw, this is where I first encountered lisp (although in a negative light)

13:39

adlai: typical 'flashlight w/ blink mode' these days is built around microcontroller. (and i've encountered ones that... crash)

13:39

in early 2000s pcb per-pad cost made this +ev

13:39

~5 years later, encountered again in one of Hofstadter's articles, where he presents it in a positive light and goes into detail

13:40

adlai: i looked at book when you mentioned it, didn't see the appeal

13:40

although he only describes the ideas of the metacircular evaluator, and doesn't even mention e.g. Lisp-1 vs Lisp-2

13:40

oblig.

13:41

in my perspective, the main takeaway from the BEAM book is that it prepared me, from early in life, with a strong skepticism towards magic technology that does not permit disassembly

13:42

so your articles, while often containing lots of facts that I had not encountered before, fit with a philosophy to which I already subscribed.

13:43

adlai: unfortunately no one knows how to build comp of discrete 'take one out & replace' gates that doesn't weigh like garbage truck (and run at <1mhz..)

13:43

right, it's not a good philosophy for building an entire CPU. it is more applicable for mechanical parts.

13:44

konsoomer mechanicals even sadder story. plastic gears in ~errything since late '80s at least.

13:44

i've seen lathes w/ plastic gearing.

13:45

"one word, stan. one word!"

13:45

"... plastics"

13:46

decent summary re why.

13:47

meanwhile, in lispisms, it appears that recent GCC has broken the compilation process of at least two of the open source CL compilers

13:48

*

adlai has not been following their development closely, since CL compilers don't exactly warrant using last week's latest patch for whatever new crap, although... perhaps another wave of GNU refugees is on its way

13:48

adlai: 'recent gcc' afaik breaks ~errything

13:48

this is entirely deliberate.

13:48

throw it out & dun look back.

13:49

https://archive.is/P249g gives me a spinning 'loading' gif and no content?

13:49

loads here. orig link alive, for ref.

13:49

unless you count google-analytics.js as content!

13:49

thx

~ 1 hours ~

14:49

I failed to finish a little machine code program yesterday, but I did learn some tricks from it. Still, it wasn't nearly as small as I'd originally figured it would be anyway, being one hundred and ten octets so far, and so nearly thrice the size of my last little program. Last month, I focused far too much on a few topics, whilst having a plethora stowed away, so I'll correct that behaviour this month.

14:50

verisimilitude: what were you trying to write ?

14:51

*

asciilifeform has also a number of '99% written' items that held up on acct of saecular chores

14:51

I like writing CHIP-8 games with my custom development tool, my MMC. I underestimated the size of a breakout-style game which would take advantage of the XOR sprite model by roughly two times.

14:52

I got bored with fiddling in the core, where it just barely didn't fall into place properly, so I've discarded it for now.

14:53

I need to finish the rewrite of this tool and then move on to a different machine.

14:54

As for the column-limit message, I found it amusing to see that from Torvalds a few days back. I refuse to obey eighty columns, and liken it to dancing around a tribal fire. I use one hundred, as it's a nicer number and, while still arbitrary, I'm not just blindly following an arbitrary number and pretending it's not.

14:57

feedbot

http://mvdstandard.net/2020/05/three-uruguayan-marines-killed-in-attack-at-cerro-naval-base/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Three Uruguayan Marines Killed In Attack At Cerro Naval Base

14:57

I also have the beginnings of a little puzzle game in APL, but must solve the issue of how one of the core functions is to behave, first.

~ 23 minutes ~

15:21

verisimilitude: i suppose if yer already using nonstandard character sets for aplism, not much risk of anyone inadvertently reading yer proggy and 'grr, fella won't do 80col..'

15:28

as for 'arbitrary number', picture mech engineer 'fuck m3 screws! i'ma make mine 3.33333333mm if i feel like!'

15:28

entirely yer call, so long as know what yer signing up for.

~ 1 hours 56 minutes ~

17:25

Well, some of my older Lisp programs don't adhere to one hundred columns, but I use this for all my programs by now.

17:25

It's exactly half the standard limit for an Ada line, as a nice quality.

17:26

The engineering argument would have merit, if most computer programming resembled engineering in a meaningful sense.

17:31

gnat under max-fascism btw sets '>80col is eggog'. as is right an' proper.

~ 16 minutes ~

17:48

re 'if it resembled engineering in a meaningful sense' -- programming could be like engineering; or could be like chimps smearing shit on the walls at the zoo; which it'll be is 100% up to the practitioners

~ 3 hours 43 minutes ~

21:31

amberglint

Hello

21:31

amberglint

asciilifeform: MCST published the instruction set for Elbrus and a bunch of other docs, if you are still curious about it: http://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/people/mike/elbrus/docs/elbrus_prog/html/

~ 21 minutes ~

21:52

feedbot

http://mvdstandard.net/2020/06/three-arrests-in-case-of-murdered-marines/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Three Arrests In Case Of Murdered Marines

~ 56 minutes ~

22:49

ty amberglint, looks interesting. i suspect i'll never get hands on an actual working elbrus tho

22:49