Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-01-18 | 2021-01-20 → ↓
10:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-18#1029678 << maybe i'm thick, but a) why 'generate programs' when you have macros?? b) if somehow absolutely ~must~ : wainot do it with macroexpand/macroexpand-1 ?
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10:56 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-18 21:57:59 verisimilitude: Back to programming, it's poor how Common Lisp, despite being image-based, doesn't have strong facilities for generating wholesale programs, in the sense of a program which would output a template to file, as a human would. Sure, I could fiddle with the *PRINT- values, but this is comparatively weak. It's so weak, I've found an alternative solution which avoids needing to do this.
10:57 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
10:57 btcinfobot Current BTC price in USD: $37315.47
10:57 asciilifeform !w poll
10:57 watchglass Polling 15 nodes...
10:57 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
10:57 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742
10:57 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666529
10:57 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742
10:57 watchglass 71.114.46.209:8333 : (pool-71-114-46-209.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742 (Operator: asciilifeform)
10:57 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.113s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742
10:57 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.154s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=666740 (Operator: whaack)
10:57 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.147s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742
10:57 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.208s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742
10:57 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.253s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=666742
10:57 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : (182518.pk.3pp.slovanet.sk) Alive: (0.300s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=446571
10:58 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
11:01 * adlai has often considered image-based development [e.g., while pondering ways to reduce trading engine downtime... 'turn it off and back on again'] as purely temporary pill, of the "have you tried killing everyone and recruiting a new cult" variety.
11:02 adlai that one line might actually respond to everything that was spoken in here since my previous conversation, although I must remark that I never viewed Mircea as some sorta upstanding role model, nor really as anything other than a generous ?illionaire who was teaching by example rather than by sermon;
11:03 asciilifeform adlai: ~100% sermon
11:03 adlai thus, to complete his "sermon by example", he actually had to eventually do something indisputably scummy, otherwise "gpg contracts" would eventually be nothing more than the title of a blog post that nobody even read.
11:04 asciilifeform adlai: i dunget it; why 'had to' ?
11:04 adlai why he chose to take the "scammer by example" as far as he did, is ... an interesting question! ask him, lol.
11:04 adlai why 'had to' ? << for the same reason that heaven-and-hell-based moralities are ineffective without uncertainty about what happens after death
11:05 asciilifeform adlai: imho much simpler. see also hitler's 1945 'nero decree'.
11:06 adlai to avoid bloviating about places where I've never been, nor even studied, I will not comment on the brief mention of eastern european geopolitics, other than to remark that it's probably a different breed of clusterfuck than is found in the leftovers of the commonwealth.
11:07 * adlai has been quite tempted to visit those places with the "rando leftover of IDF" hat clearly visible, for enough time to _earn_ citizenship (rather than buy it), although that may be a worse idea than showing up uninvited to a TMSR konference.
11:08 adlai in simple terms: life is too long to live happily ever after on a private island surrounded by a harem and its disciplined spawn.
11:10 adlai verisimilitude: you may find that your prose is slightly less unpalatable if you replace the purely racial stereotypes with socioeconomic ones, although the fanbase for my website is quite scant, so my advice is worth what you paid [sic] for it.
11:11 adlai e.g., you complain about "ebonics", yet eventually claim to write "Archaic English"; perhaps you should be complaining about the pidginification of the glocal era ushered in by the anthropocene?
11:13 * adlai loosely cuts the start of "anthropocene" not at any year favored by climate wankers counting rings in 20th century tree trunks, but instead at the centuries when wholesale planting of private forests, for purposes such as hosting wildlife and serving as raw materials for ship building, became commonplace.
11:14 adlai so, roughly the same as "CE", give or take a millenium.
11:14 verisimilitude I'd rather mostly avoid the topic than make what I write on it ``less unpalatable''.
11:16 adlai honestly, I think that's a better approach; it's a problematic topic, anyway. nitpicking people's word choice has never gone well in my conversations, and it probably doesn't go too well in those of anyone who isn't getting paid for that exact service, either.
11:16 * adlai recalled what else he wanted to comment upon!
11:17 verisimilitude I referred to the stereotyping and whatnot.
11:20 verisimilitude As for language, what I do may seem unreasonable or inconsistent, but as a human being I needn't be reasonable nor consistent; I don't find it particularly egregious compared to the modern idiocy, anyway.
11:21 verisimilitude I've long held the position that reason is only one of the many ways humans may make decisions. Reason is a tool, and I can always use a different tool when it suits me better.
11:22 adlai and yes, I am mostly talking to myself when I write here, in public, that it is educational to compare the fadeout of MP's hosted wallet service [it had a free beta, remember?], with trinque's
11:22 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-18 13:42:17 trinque: my own opinion of all this was expressed in how I operated deedbot.
11:23 adlai although I should publicly declare, since such does occasionally make a difference: fucker overpaid my last withdrawal! although, not at ultimate personal detriment, so who cares.
11:25 adlai the difference between reasoned tools and the unreasoned one is that you can't go back to using a reflex after you have decided to forsake it for the benefit of a reasoned response.
11:26 asciilifeform adlai: mp did not formally close his thing; rather, went to 'punish offenders'
11:26 adlai e.g., I have exactly once in my civilian life faced a gun barrel pointed at my face, and it was a bit chilling to recall that once I was sober and thought about other times.
11:27 adlai asciilifeform: thus the word choice of "fadeout" instead of closure and other such not-quite-synonims.
11:29 verisimilitude I've only bothered with identifying three good categories of decision-making: reason, instinct, and random chance.
11:31 verisimilitude Anyway, the reason I speak and write oddly, adlai, is because I decided only addressing the modern rot in my native language wasn't good enough. I did what I do in other things, by considering ideals, and wandered towards the extremes.
11:31 * adlai fails to see how 'random chance' falls under good decision algorithms, although it is admittedly a component of certain ones.
11:33 verisimilitude It's good when one doesn't care; I've written about it here.
11:33 adlai I'll repeat what I've written before: your ritual adherence to grammatic form is admirable; if anything, it reminds me of my best teachers, rather than internet randos who happened to have been good at filling my mind with verbiage (and those were busy, busy, busy, loooooooong before I first wandered into #b-a)
11:35 adlai the implication that I understand from 'random chance' is unbiased choice. you may have intended to refer to algorithms incorporating randomized choices, although that's slightly more specific than, to pick an extreme - russian roulette.
11:35 adlai yes, russian roulette is one such algorithm; so, s/specific/general a category of algorithm/
11:35 asciilifeform adlai: you may find it interesting that the 'roulette' was orig. played w/ a nagant -- where the cylinder in fact spins freely. i.e. is ~biased~ rng.
11:36 asciilifeform player who knows how to spin correctly -- will never lose
11:36 adlai you may find it amusing that one of the quickest "nope"s out of a conversation with a professor that I ever attained on-campus was after asking, "why does statistical thermodynamics presume unbiased selection of edges"
11:37 adlai the answer was along the lines of "I need to go eat lunch, and who the fuck are you again?"
11:37 adlai at least it wasn't "write me an email about that idea", that is the worst.
11:37 asciilifeform adlai: see also.
11:37 snsabot (trilema) 2014-03-19 asciilifeform: and, finally, his moment arrived! von Kármán surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von Kármán spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'
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11:39 * adlai has a stoner version of this joke, composed after reading that one, although it is a syntax error to tell it without a lit joint
11:39 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 11:37:51 snsabot: (trilema) 2014-03-19 asciilifeform: and, finally, his moment arrived! von Kármán surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von Kármán spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'
11:40 adlai it hinges upon the demonstration of turbulence using the joint, so I guess you could use a cigarette, or a pipe, or even a drink if you're creative enough.
11:40 adlai and how do you know if you're telling it to a junkie? "no es microfono"
11:41 verisimilitude The intent was unbiased choice, but that's a nice addition to this, because the primary point is that the tosser doesn't care anyway.
11:41 verisimilitude People who decide to live by coin flips are advised to cycle the coins on a regular, or random, schedule.
11:42 adlai or read the FG source document, even if they never plug in one of the devices.
11:43 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029679 This involved writing a different manner of meta-program which would stand alone after generation, asciilifeform, but I've decided on a better solution for this.
11:43 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 10:56:06 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-18#1029678 << maybe i'm thick, but a) why 'generate programs' when you have macros?? b) if somehow absolutely ~must~ : wainot do it with macroexpand/macroexpand-1 ?
11:44 asciilifeform verisimilitude: outta curiosity, what's moar compact than shitting output of macroexpand to file ?
11:44 verisimilitude I'll explain.
11:46 verisimilitude Having written and gradually refined my Meta-Machine Code targetings, I'm naturally considering a Meta-Meta-Machine Code. However, it's nicer to write several of the core algorithms so generically that I could copy them wholesale, rather than generate them, and I may be able to do this successfully enough for my tastes.
11:59 asciilifeform meanwhile, in misc. crackpotteries on www.
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12:03 asciilifeform verisimilitude: this link in particular reminded me of your experiments.
12:09 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029751 <<< After looking into who this was, I'd say they have a promising career in the Biden administration.
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12:09 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 11:59:06 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in misc. crackpotteries on www.
12:09 verisimilitude I'm curious as to why, asciilifeform.
12:10 asciilifeform verisimilitude: generally 'fits in head' machine archs.
12:10 verisimilitude I'm familiar with that webring, but don't believe I've seen MyNOR before.
12:10 verisimilitude Alright.
12:11 * asciilifeform interested in 'single instruction cpu' largely from this pov
12:11 snsabot (trilema) 2016-04-07 asciilifeform: i dug out the 1-bit cpu because i have a weakness for exotic archs that might be amenable to optical or otherwise 'this handful of switching elements' incarnation.
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12:12 verisimilitude I dislike those designs, because the true instructions are but collections of the ``single'' instruction.
12:13 asciilifeform verisimilitude: horizontal microcode doesn't trigger yer allergy, tho? wainot?
12:14 asciilifeform in vertical microcode, you can at least see what a given macroinstruction does, by reading the micro. but not so in horizontal, where opcode has 0 meaning unless you know the internals of cpu inside and out
12:14 verisimilitude That's not intended for the lowest-level programmer. I'm to understand this MyNOR is similar.
12:15 verisimilitude I dislike when the single instruction is exposed to the programmer.
12:17 asciilifeform verisimilitude: from that pov, i dislike when something other than human-readable coad is exposed to the programmer. but e.g. single-instr. cpu is interesting from entirely diff. pov.
12:17 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-22 14:59:36 asciilifeform: 'holy grail' ultimate pill here would obviously be 'desktop fab'. but afaik currently is not even in realm of 'science fiction', but rather lsd fantasy, sadly.
12:17 verisimilitude The high-level instruction set is an obvious destination of this train of thought, yes.
12:18 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029753 << lol! elaborate?
12:18 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 12:09:52 shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029751 <<< After looking into who this was, I'd say they have a promising career in the Biden administration.
12:18 verisimilitude I agree; I'd never considered it from that perspective, as I don't do anything with hardware, sans using it.
12:19 shinohai asciilifeform: https://archive.is/piVOe
12:23 asciilifeform shinohai: waiwat -- how's the linked person connected w/ earlier lnk?
12:27 shinohai Both appear to labor under the delusion they are female.
12:39 asciilifeform shinohai: aa
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~
14:30 verisimilitude Say, I've had a persistent Emacs problem I could use help with.
14:31 verisimilitude I use this function for when I need a spare buffer for notes:
14:31 verisimilitude (defun switch-to-temporary-buffer ()
14:31 verisimilitude "Generate a temporary buffer and switch to it."
14:31 verisimilitude (interactive)
14:31 shinohai Well the first step is admitting you have a problem. We here at vicorp are happy to help.
14:31 verisimilitude (switch-to-buffer (generate-new-buffer "temporary")))
14:32 verisimilitude The issue is when Emacs crashes, and it will; these temporary buffers aren't saved at all, because they've no associated files.
14:32 verisimilitude I've tried to see what message-mode does, but locally setting buffer-offer-save has no effect.
14:33 verisimilitude Vi vi vi is the editor of the beast, shinohai.
14:33 shinohai xD
14:34 verisimilitude That doesn't look good in the logs, so I'll reformat it.
14:34 verisimilitude (defun switch-to-temporary-buffer () "Generate a temporary buffer and switch to it." (interactive) (switch-to-buffer (generate-new-buffer "temporary")))
14:35 verisimilitude Mine Emacs recently crashed, and it was a bother to lose these buffers, even though I recall their contents.
14:36 verisimilitude Oh, I'll also share my nice binding.
14:37 verisimilitude (define-key ctl-x-map (kbd "C-M-b") 'switch-to-temporary-buffer)
14:37 shinohai I thought `auto-save-mode` actually wokred in emacs on temp buffers, but don't use it much.
14:37 shinohai (Though it isn't enabled by default)
14:38 verisimilitude Well now I feel stupid.
14:39 verisimilitude I'd thought I'd already tried that, perhaps.
14:39 verisimilitude I'm appreciative, shinohai.
14:41 shinohai Happy I remembered *something* about emacs lol
~ 37 minutes ~
15:18 verisimilitude I'll share the new.
15:19 verisimilitude (defun switch-to-temporary-buffer () "Generate a temporary buffer and switch to it." (interactive) (switch-to-buffer (generate-new-buffer "temporary")) (auto-save-mode))
15:19 verisimilitude How would the equivalent in Vimscript look, shinohai?
15:21 shinohai no idea verisimilitude ... I tend not to rice out my vim setup. Only plugins I even have are nerdtree and slimv (for slime support) .... pretty boring.
15:22 verisimilitude To call this ``ricing'' is so odd to me. I don't do it much either. Care for a joke of mine about this, shinohai?
15:22 shinohai Shoot.
15:22 verisimilitude I rice so little one could confuse me with China's Great Leap Forward.
15:22 shinohai lolocopter.
~ 2 hours 16 minutes ~
17:38 jurov vi use scratch files
17:40 jurov nofile buffers are supported in vim, but it is more oriented to files than maintaining memory state
17:43 jurov for lisp i use vlime which has read-only repl. so for anything more complicated i have to put it down in some file and i like it, it keeps one away from maintaining some hairy memory image
~ 17 minutes ~
18:00 * asciilifeform never before heard of a 'read-only repl'. sounds rather like the infamous write-only memory imho.
18:07 jurov it means you don't write in expressions there, but evaluate them from the other files
18:08 thimbronion I've also been using vlime - mostly because I'm a vim addict. Only complaint about the read-only repl is that some times it doesn't automatically stay focused on the latest output.
~ 37 minutes ~
18:46 * adlai upst^H^H^H^Hdnstreams to peripherals, and their evils
18:46 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-03 14:47:27 asciilifeform: and incidentally most folx indeed 'can't see'. they then wonder where the chronic headaches come from.
18:47 * adlai hears 'deathrays' on a weekly, if not daily, basis; although most likely culprits, other than the easy target of "pass the lsd", are power adapters in various devices
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18:47 adlai incidentally, that is why I loathe electronics.
18:48 adlai however, my easy approach is simply to deny that the headaches exist, and most importantly, to minimise use of a device identified unambiguously as emitting.
18:49 adlai once that's out of the way: my prime interest in the forseeable decade of junkyard wars is dealing with garbage displays, i.e. the kind of flatscreen TVs that asciilifeform would sell on ebay for "I don't care if nobody bids, just take this thing away from the torture chamber, it's starting to stink."
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18:50 * adlai is aware that more than his conscious lifetime of engineer-years have gone into cost-cutting the retinal tomfoolery of "over 9k dpi", that does not mean that the garbage must be fed to a dumpster fire.
18:51 adlai and yes, this is entirely "ricing out my monitor[s]", so that I don't have to buy overpriced crapple.
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18:52 adlai [pointing a camera at the running display is a laughable waste of electricity, although does justify the unpaid labor, in certain cases.]
18:54 adlai and on to yer favorite, "adlai babbling about things he doesn't fully understand": aiui, even in cooled solid-state quantum wankage, these devices rot at rates proportional, at some exponent, to power consumption of each individual cell; yet ...
18:54 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 12:11:29 snsabot: (trilema) 2016-04-07 asciilifeform: i dug out the 1-bit cpu because i have a weakness for exotic archs that might be amenable to optical or otherwise 'this handful of switching elements' incarnation.
18:56 adlai yet, if you've got a few dozen thousand of these doing the work of one higher-arity automaton's grid element, doesn't your debugging process still end up quite similar: one failed hardware element requires you to recompile a metric crapload of adjacent routage?
18:57 adlai 'arity' might be the wrong word, ofc. I'm going off my "reads and talks" experience here.
18:58 * adlai is imagining a "sierpinski 3-cube" of small-even-integer-arity photonics, so that we discuss a slightly more practical example than "light-year of SISC"
18:59 adlai small-even, rather than smallest-integer, to enable crossings.
19:03 adlai as you approach the Landauer limit, your world changes from "giant gobs of nanoparticle" to "quasiparticles on the surface of the fractal"
19:03 adlai coolant left as an exercise for the professionals.
19:05 adlai crossings are admittedly a nightmare for garbage flow analysis, although they are what enables "buy computronium by the kg" instead of "buy ComputronInside by the fractal-dimension-squigglemetre"
19:07 adlai most likely, both in the quantum wankage [and close to the Landauer limit], and in the "battlestation worth its weight in FPGA die" world.
19:09 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029814 << inductor whine.
19:09 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 18:47:02 adlai: hears 'deathrays' on a weekly, if not daily, basis; although most likely culprits, other than the easy target of "pass the lsd", are power adapters in various devices
19:09 asciilifeform often enuff you can buy an equiv. power brick w/out the whine.
19:10 * adlai oughtta, someday real soon, figure out how to triangulate inductor whine from a single constant-radial-speed cervical "no" gesture
19:11 asciilifeform adlai: get 1 of those audio-heterodyne headphone things used to search for the whistle of gas leak
19:11 adlai alternatively, donate garbage and braincase to truck, and wish better luck to the next generation.
19:11 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029817 << i dun actually sit on a scrapyard, lol
19:11 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 18:49:37 adlai: once that's out of the way: my prime interest in the forseeable decade of junkyard wars is dealing with garbage displays, i.e. the kind of flatscreen TVs that asciilifeform would sell on ebay for "I don't care if nobody bids, just take this thing away from the torture chamber, it's starting to stink."
19:12 adlai that could be useful, although I doubt any walk-in junk shop sells them.
19:12 * adlai does not live in Waltonstan, after all.
19:12 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-19#1029819 << i gotta bite : why on satan's green earth wouldja buy a crapple display ?!
19:12 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 18:51:46 adlai: and yes, this is entirely "ricing out my monitor[s]", so that I don't have to buy overpriced crapple.
19:12 * adlai is using the term generically!
19:13 adlai "state-of-the-art beautiful hardware, priced by the brand"
19:13 * asciilifeform speaking of displaywank -- aboutta uncrate a ev3285
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19:13 adlai as opposed to "garbage with serial number filed off, purchased from lemon yard, plastic casings packaged separately"
19:14 * adlai is seriously considering, in case this was not crystal clear by now, 5th and 6th decades of life on this green earth as electronics junkyard proprietor.
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19:15 asciilifeform adlai: it'sa living
19:15 adlai those are high numbers for as young an idiot as I to be banking on; however, it seems like a more honest career than "let's pretend all the pixels are square"
19:16 adlai cartesian, rectangular, etc.
19:17 * adlai has a short-term usecase for "any large display that falls off someone else's garbage truck" of displaying market data, a field sufficiently nonlinear and ... whatsthatword, that rectangular pixels are not required.
19:17 adlai the word probably is 'cartesian', i.e., opposite of curvilinear.
19:18 * adlai should probably avoid excessive neologising, despite the temptation.
19:19 asciilifeform adlai: displays w/ market data ? are you aboutta take up manually-cranked buy-cheap-sell-dear ?
19:19 asciilifeform ( didntcha have a commonlisp bot for this ? )
19:21 adlai yes; whether that Faustian Bargain eats my soul completely should be resolved beyond reasonable doubt before the 4th decade is out.
19:21 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-28 11:47:43 asciilifeform: chrematism, i'm firmly convinced, is the exact sort of sin the ancients saw it as : is intensely tempting w/ all kindsa sweets, and will easily destroy yer soul -- but only if yer ~successful~ in it.
19:21 * adlai is currently in the "wasting picasso that fell off garbage truck" phase of building the program
19:22 adlai and no, it is not a goose that pisses golden guano; it is more like a stupid child that trades baseball cards for pogs in the hope of being able to buy a digimon bootleg tape.
19:23 * adlai has, however, allocated a few more years of "phree man-months" to this
19:24 asciilifeform adlai: 1 of asciilifeform's consultingisms is actually for an outfit that makes such instruments as you described, for manually-cranked traders.
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19:24 BingoBoingo whaack: Pretty sure I saw waves you would like here, not sure full year's weather cooperates with the water sports
19:24 adlai mmhm, and the various "mom and pop shop" CL programmer consultancies are all over the place. you may have even worked at one of those!
19:26 * adlai does wonder whether 'instruments' refers to hardware; 'financial instruments' (lol!); or bloatware for replacing exchange website bloatware.
19:27 asciilifeform adlai: i mention because, funny thing, found self having to study at length what exactly traders do, how/why etc
19:27 asciilifeform adlai: softs
19:28 adlai I guess there is an "option four", i.e. "do not replace the bloated exchange website; enhance!"
19:28 asciilifeform ( they tend to get sold in complex w/ irons, is my current understanding, because to trader cost of whatever comp is rather like cost of candy wrapper )
19:28 adlai that's also the impression I get, from what traders expound.
19:29 adlai even the ones who have negative real net worth, i.e. are trading someone else's wealth, while their own is mortgaged, are slinging amounts that either earn them a new workstation per whenevertheywant, or run them bankrupt soon enough that nobody cares.
19:30 * adlai does not recommend that kind of risk appetite, although that is what most do.
19:31 * adlai realizes now that he misread the word is as being past tense!
19:31 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-19 19:24:13 asciilifeform: adlai: 1 of asciilifeform's consultingisms is actually for an outfit that makes such instruments as you described, for manually-cranked traders.
19:32 adlai always good to know there's still competition; it betrays the existence of a target market, outside of the proverbial 'lsd fantasy'
19:32 asciilifeform adlai: it's simply one of 'over 9000' industrial niches where SoftwareSucks(tm)
19:33 * adlai goes back to 'paralegal'-ing the quest through search engine spew about "sleeker and cheaper than CRT"
19:33 adlai 'paralegal' for patent clerk, ofc!
19:34 asciilifeform adlai: what were you looking for , again? cheap highres display to tile wall with ?
19:34 adlai exact opposite.
19:34 adlai "how to best use that one specific piece of hardware"
19:34 asciilifeform aa, already have it then ?
19:35 adlai bog-standard television, with more input ports than options for computer that drives them.
19:35 asciilifeform a
19:35 * adlai thus has to actually start understanding what goes down the various VGA/RGB/HDMI/etc
19:36 adlai and, what pixels actually exist in that specific hardware item; although, that is the least interesting question.
19:36 asciilifeform these tend to suffer from oddball pixel geometries (not simply 'not square' -- but e.g. triangular) and problems w/ bw (i.e. stuck at 30hz) -- but this may not matter if yer displaying numbers
19:37 * adlai is repeatedly, throughout this thread, reminded of some standup comedian's joke about "visit meth head, find him sitting on floor, staring at unplugged television"
19:38 adlai ehh, not quite displaying numbers, although easiest "let's use this metric pixelage" is to just pipe a terminal at it, for some reasonably suboptimal resolution.
19:38 * adlai envisions displaying shape of crapflow
19:39 adlai where 'crapflow' ~= what ends up projected downto idjit "candlestick charts"
19:39 adlai and, of course, the orderbooks.
19:39 * adlai has been swimming in this liquishit for too many years, and seriously, does not want to talk about it. it is depressing.
19:39 asciilifeform adlai: a la shitstamp's ?
19:40 adlai nope; less-cartesian view of higher-dimensional clusterfuck that gets twodimensionalised into those.
19:40 asciilifeform adlai: what'll the corresponding input device look like ? e.g. two 'whack-a-mole' buttons labeled 'buy' and 'sell' ?
19:41 adlai tbh, although the nerdorkgeek in me wants to say "kbd lol", the answer will probably be some varyant of rat, ball, or even - god forbid! joystick.
19:42 adlai ball mouse without ball is probably good enough: two axes, few buttons.
19:42 * asciilifeform pictures flight sim yoke, adapted for trading, where the latter is modelled as flying ufo between algorithmically shat landscape
19:42 * adlai does not envision anything useful for speed-clickers... asciilifeform has the correct idea.
19:43 adlai isn't telepathy efficient !
19:43 asciilifeform adlai: you can in fact model it as 'collision avoidance' problem. catch is, the 'mountains' are in a fog.
19:44 adlai good noose is that target market is small enough that it should not matter if competitor builds ~identical widget for selling in overpriced genius bar crapple shops.
19:44 asciilifeform ( 'collision' in this case is going broke , or in general case to go below some critical value of net )
19:44 adlai no mountains, no fog; river, salmon, grizzlies.
19:45 asciilifeform oblig.
19:46 adlai sourceforge subdomains ain't gonna cure my depression
19:46 * adlai clix
19:48 adlai ...1.1.6-win32.zip much better than expected; tyvm, asciilifeform :)
19:49 asciilifeform adlai: i haven't actually tried the remake. did play the orig. msdos one tho, in early '90s
19:49 adlai 'myabandonware' site tldrs as: ``Perestroika (a.k.a. Toppler) is a fun game by a small Russian developer called Locis, who promptly disappeared after this "one hit wonder.",,
19:50 asciilifeform that one sucked imho
19:50 asciilifeform adlai: your 'salmon in river' thing reminded me of the inner game in 'tower' where you end up in the sea and devouring (canned!) fish that swim there
19:52 adlai that metaphor originated from angst at pervasive 'bull vs bear' idiocy
19:53 * asciilifeform pictures if meteorology field consisted of 'warmists' and 'coldists'
20:07 adlai lmao, 1-star review "this game contains a virus"; dipshit, it's called "having fun with a computer instead of using it to design another computer"
20:08 * adlai files angry joke under "only people who read all of Asimov's History of the Future will get this" and goes back to humorless anger
20:13 adlai " ... to catch a fish in a bubble with your torpedo and ... " << wait, you're telling me the fish are collateral damage of perfectly conventional weaponry!?
20:14 adlai madness, plasfemi
20:15 adlai maybe sourceforge links occasionally can dispel existential angst!
20:16 * adlai queues dusting off dosbox at some point to actually play this
20:31 * adlai can only imagine how much reversers detest these!
20:32 adlai it's "computronium, sold by the kg, priced by the pound", with a dash of "we estimate pounds using a compass; problem?"
20:36 adlai nice example of how 'paralegal algorithm' can result in wasted time: I found plenty of articles comparing projector technologies because of an overloaded acronym. isn't hitech marvellous!
20:37 * adlai has always considered projectors more useful for blinding, than projection, although that is sadly another example of microscope hammers.
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