Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2022-03-24 | 2022-03-26 →
00:56 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088163 << PoC||GTFO is good form to filter for quality. Though may cause issues in development when a PoC is impossible due to factors like system size, complexity and inability for meaningful co-operation etc.
00:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 18:21:12 verisimilitude: I'm continually forced by practicality to write more basic versions of my systems first, crtdaydreams.
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
02:15 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088054 I don't take medicine unless I be violently ill and it doesn't go away in a week or two. If I can endanger someone by not taking medicine, I want to endanger him, in fact.
02:15 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 16:03:41 mats: oh good, more vaccine denialism
02:20 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088152 Do away with using a text editor for programming entirely.
02:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 17:25:17 crtdaydreams: ~reimplement~ emacs in cl won't cut it for a next-generation editor
~ 2 hours 10 minutes ~
04:31 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088184 << maybe one day ~if~ it's practical to do so and provides me with an expressiveness >= that of lisp.
04:31 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 22:19:38 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088152 Do away with using a text editor for programming entirely.
~ 48 minutes ~
05:19 mats you're in good company if you're antisocial in this chan
05:22 mats no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials
05:24 mats reasonable people can debate the policy choices that were made, this isn't that
05:33 signpost https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/russia-open-to-sell-gas-for-bitcoin << yessss
05:33 * signpost going to bed, but that belonged in here first.
05:33 crtdaydreams Uhoh. Er updates on the Aussie front. Winnie is making a move on the Solomon Islands.
05:34 crtdaydreams signpost: holy shit
05:34 crtdaydreams sleep well
05:37 verisimilitude What are the Solomon Islands?
05:38 crtdaydreams LMGTFY
05:39 crtdaydreams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands
05:40 crtdaydreams A strategic move i.e. Kokoda 2.0
05:40 crtdaydreams Also where the fiber optics lines run through.
05:41 * crtdaydreams bbl
~ 3 hours 3 minutes ~
08:44 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088196 << Apologies. That was actually very rude and unnecessary given the context. I did not mean to be condescending, it's just all to common with the types I typically deal with.
08:44 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 01:37:08 verisimilitude: What are the Solomon Islands?
08:44 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 01:37:58 crtdaydreams: LMGTFY
08:45 crtdaydreams \o vex
08:45 vex it's only heya
08:45 vex just saw honiara mentioned in da logs
08:46 crtdaydreams ye, chinese making a power move
08:47 vex chinatown was on fire 3 moons ago
08:47 crtdaydreams really?
08:47 * crtdaydreams reading thread
08:47 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-26 20:20:20 vex: meanwhile, In da solomons https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-27/solomon-islands-riots-honiara/100654100
08:49 crtdaydreams unrelated classic: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-27#1067776
08:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-27 01:00:54 vex: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
08:49 crtdaydreams vex: got any rain?
08:50 vex that's be telling
08:50 crtdaydreams aw
08:51 vex go ask bingo
08:51 crtdaydreams I don't think I've talked to bingo yet
08:54 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG-kU8aOt6U loving the logs these days
08:56 vex i don't know the words, but I whistle along
08:56 crtdaydreams vex: mangol?
08:56 vex not me. i'm .au
08:56 crtdaydreams vex: ye
08:57 vex lemon larry.? I like him
08:58 vex mango lassi. heavy on the bhang
08:59 vex nice www btw
08:59 crtdaydreams ty
09:00 vex reading back thu old t logs; it's dissapointing to finf tubler .bait rotted
09:01 vex .bait was a bot command on #ozcoin, pulled up rando tubler soft pron
09:01 crtdaydreams pffft hehehehe
09:02 crtdaydreams Didn't know of #ozcoin, logs? Or lost to bitrot?
09:02 vex old aussie mining pool
09:03 crtdaydreams yeah? get much surface area in #t?
09:03 vex onlt rubler porn afik
09:03 crtdaydreams lel
09:04 vex mp replaced the soft with hard
09:04 crtdaydreams vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gARa8Jwljvo
09:05 crtdaydreams hehe
09:07 crtdaydreams aw shit, just had new smoke alarms installed, no fire and no smoke and it won't shut up all of a sudden
09:07 crtdaydreams not even cooking anythin
09:07 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088220 << head banger
09:07 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 04:53:16 vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG-kU8aOt6U loving the logs these days
09:11 crtdaydreams vex: funny can opener design
09:12 vex is that big trucks going under a smol bridge?
09:13 crtdaydreams yis
09:13 vex i seen it on vidya already
09:13 crtdaydreams oh kewl
09:14 crtdaydreams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJel0WyGPqQ
09:15 crtdaydreams brb in 10~
~ 15 minutes ~
09:30 crtdaydreams close enuff
09:36 vex I've seen mats niger too
09:38 vex boko haaram or whatever
09:38 vex callind dpb. thew ekids need schrist
09:44 vex stones no longer safe on earth
09:44 * vex choozes to snooze
~ 42 minutes ~
10:26 crtdaydreams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8AfIeJOxw
10:29 jonsykkel http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087042 << ye sad stuf, need to invent silicon printer kitchen appliance how hard can be
10:29 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-22 09:59:26 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087001 << some yrs ago asciilifeform set about designing one, then hit the 'no usable fpga' problem
10:29 jonsykkel http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-23#1087346 << did some experiments like this too, with photo diode taped to monitor and scope trigger on keyboard switch. not xtremly intresting results since just testing same computer+os with keyboard that can both usb and ps/2, wanted to see specifically diff between these. but method was decent
10:29 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-23 12:55:08 asciilifeform: ..and related.
10:29 jonsykkel http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088189 << <1year long trial not worth much for predicting wat will happen in >1year time, even if done correctestly
10:29 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 01:22:11 mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials
10:29 jonsykkel we come across gun lying on ground, i get idea hey lets try aim at ur face and pull trigger. u complain about risk. i respond that ur claims are unfounded, wheres the evidence that tehers bullet in chamber??
10:29 jonsykkel nobody knows = risky, definitionally
10:30 jonsykkel dont se much evidence either htat teh vax isnt just adding aditional risk on top of risk from virups
~ 23 minutes ~
10:53 crtdaydreams if it were a water hose but you don't know if the tap is on would it still be "risky" in the same sense?
10:56 jonsykkel nah, i guess chacnes that water hose is connected to lava tap or smth are low
10:57 crtdaydreams er, the point was that the risk isn't in knowledge (in this case, the lack thereof) but context
10:57 jonsykkel i think default assumption shoudl be that puting weird chemicals into ur body is more like gun scenario
10:57 crtdaydreams ofc. but to others it's more like the hose.
10:57 jonsykkel sure
11:00 crtdaydreams shrodigners squirt gun
11:12 jonsykkel most people have quite a bit of experience with water hoses to base their heuristics on at least
11:12 jonsykkel u are right its not the knowledge exactly
~ 16 minutes ~
11:29 crtdaydreams not abt being right, just thinking orthogonally
11:31 crtdaydreams slehp time o/
11:32 mangol a weird-looking, overcomplicated kind of hose that nobody knows much about, connected to one of ~three reich-approved hose providers. people who'd like a traditional hose instead, or to drink from a glass, are treated with suspicion. and come to think of it, you're not really that thirsty to begin with.
11:35 mangol approved "new and improved hose" providers are making gigabucks out of the enterprise by selling hose to govt's all over the world on rapid schedule. said govt's give the impression that they generally have nfi what to do about sudden problem of mass thirst, but surely these people know which hose to buy from what provider. no money and power at stake whatsoever.
11:36 mangol and that's before masks / lockdowns / censorship / vaxxed people are still infected and still transmit virus
11:39 mangol given all that, the main problem is still not covid or vax, but the urgency with which people are compelled to upgrade their mind to the latest reich software
11:39 mangol same mood and tone of voice as "everyone must now be climate alarmist", "everyone must now help refugees feel at home", etc.
11:41 jonsykkel new and improved, upgraded and updated, nano tech high tech hose
11:41 mangol yeah, golden toilet as asciilifeform likes to say
11:42 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088190 << this is the mood and attitude that they want college educated people to have
11:42 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 01:24:01 mats: reasonable people can debate the policy choices that were made, this isn't that
11:42 jonsykkel very useful term in current times
11:42 mangol next level up is huffÃpot-esque "believe the science", "we are learning"
11:42 mangol *huffpost
~ 31 minutes ~
12:14 mangol afaict The Atlantic is the standard bearer for the kind of "concerned, informed" disposition that the want educated people to have
12:14 mangol prints hilarious waffle like this: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/deep-shtetl/62041a299277230021ae9f0c/follow-the-science-joe-rogan-steven-shapin/
12:15 mangol bring on some academic to meander about and arrive at the conclusion that things are complicated and dissenters are vaguely threatening
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~
13:57 asciilifeform !q uptime
13:57 dulapbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 282d 10h 54m
13:58 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088285 << indeed is
13:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 07:41:28 mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088190 << this is the mood and attitude that they want college educated people to have
13:59 asciilifeform ... meanwhile, cement testbed at 702k+.
13:59 asciilifeform likely will finish sync in coupla days.
~ 22 minutes ~
14:22 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
14:22 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $44921.29
14:23 billymg needs moar zeros
14:23 asciilifeform ^
14:24 asciilifeform wat, 5y+ nao since last new zero...
14:24 asciilifeform ( not counting the engineered crashes, lol )
14:28 asciilifeform !w poll
14:28 watchglass Polling 15 nodes...
14:28 watchglass 94.176.238.102:8333 : Could not connect!
14:28 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.021s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958 (Operator: whaack)
14:28 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.276s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 (Operator: asciilifeform)
14:28 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.306s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 (Operator: asciilifeform)
14:28 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.329s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.603s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:28 watchglass 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.661s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
14:29 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
14:29 watchglass 103.6.212.28:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) (Operator: whaack)
14:42 billymg ah, this reminded me. whaack, i queried the crawler's data to answer your question: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=t1N8
14:42 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-11 15:18:45 whaack: curious as to whether any heathen node ever returns a trb node as a peer
14:42 billymg the last one that list is jonsykkel's new node
14:42 bitbot (pest) 2022-03-18 jonsykkel[asciilifeform|billymg]: indeed, 85.164.243.42 is new ip since 5days ago
14:48 billymg nothing appears to be wrong with the crawler either, its logs continue to print out "found new peer!" almost hourly (which it finds when it pings and gets a response from a previously unknown peer returned to it by the getaddrs call to an existing node)
14:49 billymg i tried fiddling with the peershots knob (number of times it calls getaddr, since node list is incomplete in a single call) but the current "5" setting seems sufficient
14:49 billymg peer list*
14:51 billymg not really sure what to make of it, but i'll be adding this feature to the bot interface soon anyway
14:51 bitbot Logged on 2021-08-11 16:32:02 asciilifeform: billymg: btw pheature req : see if can add a search box (where searches existing, and if not found, adds to scan queue)
~ 25 minutes ~
15:16 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087152 << asciilifeform: signpost:
15:16 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-22 15:22:43 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087104 << determined to first fart out vtronic linux, then get to this.
15:17 mangol re file transfer over pest, would a "chunk of file" message type make sense?
15:17 mangol message contains: file hash, byte offset in file, chunk length in bytes, and the data
15:18 mangol this msg type could be re-used for every data transfer application that sends data with known hash
15:20 mangol so a file is sent as over9k filechunk messages
15:21 mangol could have a corresponding message "please send me (hash, chunk offset, chunk length) as one or more filechunk messages"
15:22 mangol there's some waste since the filehash is duplicated in each message, but each message is self-describing so fault tolerance ought to be simpler to do
15:22 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088333 << mno, it wouldn't, cuz packets reordered / lost.
15:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 11:16:18 mangol: re file transfer over pest, would a "chunk of file" message type make sense?
15:22 signpost mangol: encourge ya to read this paper
15:22 asciilifeform mangol: see the 'luby', 'turbo code', etc. discussions
15:23 asciilifeform aha and signpost's link
15:23 signpost if using a fountain code, all nodes participating in the download can spray their block-streams at each other without regard to offsets, just as received.
15:23 signpost and results in a highly efficient transfer.
15:23 asciilifeform mangol: there's a # of smart algos for doing this ( dunno if yer old enuff to recall 'par' archiver on usenet; used the simplest such scheme )
15:26 signpost https://cs.nyu.edu/media/publications/TR2002-833.pdf << here's the formal description of the en/decoding scheme
15:26 signpost but yeah, this is an extension of e.g. luby, etc
15:36 mangol thanks! i read the linked paper. that's much fancier than what i proposed.
15:37 asciilifeform mangol: a major win from such codes is that you dun need a synchronous (i.e. 'hey gimme #123') conversation, just need to say when to start sending random chunks, and ask to stop when done
15:38 asciilifeform likewise, in principle several peers can send you chunks simult.
15:38 asciilifeform ( again w/out any handshaking )
15:38 mangol literally the asker says "send me some chunks of <hash of complete file>"?
15:39 asciilifeform aha
15:39 mangol and algorithm guarantees that sender(s) won't send all that many unnecesarry chunks
15:42 asciilifeform mangol: typically there's a param which sets redundancy
15:43 asciilifeform ( which also depends on the net # of chunks sent, normally you will have some pt at which you stop even if receiver is silent, or you might shout into the void 4evah )
15:46 mangol could you have a setup where the sender always sends a batch of max. 10k random chunks, then stops. receiver asks for another batch if still needs more
15:47 asciilifeform signpost, mangol : thinking about it, you prolly wouldn't want $hash to potentially represent e.g. 1tb file. instead pick a block size, e.g. 1M, and a given lubyism req oughta yield a 1M * redundancy_factor mass of packets. when req'ing a given $hash, if the file is <1M, you get the file, otherwise you get a merkleistic tree of subchunks which can then req.
15:48 asciilifeform if you dun do this, potentially you get some rather gnarly random access spread on disk
15:48 mangol looks reasonable at first glance
15:48 mangol the maymounkov-bigdown paper talks about (ID, position) tuples. apparently the ID can be either peer ID or file ID
15:48 asciilifeform i.e. you want an apriori known mass attached to any particular $hash.
15:49 asciilifeform (max mass)
15:50 mangol and an "index" of files available on a peer can be another bag-of-bytes
15:51 mangol so peers can transmit indices using the same chunk mechanism
15:51 mangol that they use to transmit the actual files indexed
15:52 asciilifeform index is a separate can of worms ( do you want subdirs, i.e. effectively ftp-style ? )
15:52 asciilifeform but yes, transmitted same way, regardless of format
15:52 mangol could also transmit chat logs, etc.
15:52 asciilifeform mangol: there's already a proper mechanism for logs (getdata)
15:53 asciilifeform no reason to represent'em as file
15:55 mangol getdata takes a hash. if you're new to the pestnet, you presumably don't know the hash of old messages
15:55 asciilifeform mangol: you do, cuz they're chained
15:55 asciilifeform you walk the chain.
15:55 mangol ah right
15:55 asciilifeform this is already implemented in thimbronion's blatta
15:55 mangol start from most recent and go back in time
15:55 asciilifeform aha
15:56 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088353 << strictly speaking, "gimmeh blocks which have been produced using an xor scheme which blends a number of blocks respecting a constructed distribution of the original message by random selection"
15:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 11:38:10 mangol: literally the asker says "send me some chunks of <hash of complete file>"?
15:56 mangol that does take back-and-forth traffic, you ask for each msg separately
15:56 signpost and maymounkov gives a proof that these "check blocks" can be used to produce the original message after no more than a specified amount of overrun
15:57 asciilifeform mangol: it does. given what chat msgs weight it aint a bw concern tho
16:01 signpost to reconstruct a message block, gotta start with at least one check block of degree 1, which means it's a straight copy of a message block.
16:01 signpost single log messages are equivalent to these, cutting them smaller to encode would be less efficent than just resending the udp packet.
16:02 signpost you decode by trying to solve message blocks for which all blocks with which they have an edge are solved, except one.
16:03 signpost my py impl has this working, just oughta be parallel and isn't.
16:03 * signpost can poast the CL item sometime after cleanup too.
16:04 signpost (incomplete, there's a bug in the encoder somewhere)
~ 18 minutes ~
16:22 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088262 << reich dispensed with all traditional pretenses of anyffin resembling objective stats gathering, publication of negatives, etc. -- not even necessarily because 'ohnoez, mega-death from dud vax' but, likely, simply to troll the noncompliant into tilt
16:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 06:28:27 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088189 << <1year long trial not worth much for predicting wat will happen in >1year time, even if done correctestly
16:22 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-08 23:07:16 asciilifeform: adlai: the beauty of it all is that it doesn't matter worth a fuck just HOW obvious the sham is. by so much as implying that yer aware of the sham, you instantly (to mats or other fella who hasn't 'shot the policeman inside his head') placing yourself into the company of the 'martians'.
16:23 asciilifeform in lolcat planet's parlance -- 'shit test'
16:23 signpost if pharmeceutical companies were known for their candor that'd be one thing, lol.
16:28 asciilifeform 'martianization' plays on the reich plebe's appetite for 'rezistenta prin cultura' (aka wank). it takes all of 10min to convincingly forge the handwritten vax receipt. but no, gotta wank, gotta picket, walk straight into the 'martian' 'free speech zone' conveniently set up by the herders.
16:28 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 16:18:06 asciilifeform: signpost: 'martians' 'happened' to it
16:29 asciilifeform cuz the sad fucks still subscribed to 'rule of law' bullshit, would sooner walk straight into oven than forge anyffin
16:29 signpost https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history << >> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/
16:29 signpost lolk
16:30 signpost asciilifeform: and the plain fear that the system must work, or how will I sleep.
16:30 signpost the american version of this is believing oneself to be "in on the lie"
16:30 asciilifeform signpost: the pharma biz is a major component of the reich's 'intellectual property' racket
16:30 asciilifeform right along with microshit et al
16:31 asciilifeform reich satrapies pay tribute in exch for signed pieces of paper. meanwhile free world copies (the rare useful items) and laughs
16:31 signpost martianization indeed. if I say I believe the incidence of vaccine side effects to be higher than they claim, this means antivax
16:31 * signpost got the vax as soon as moderna's was available, even drove to a neighboring town where the trailer parks weren't bothering to use.
16:31 asciilifeform meanwhile little to no discussion of whether in fact worked in any sense at all. which is how they like it.
16:32 asciilifeform getting the idjits preoccupied with 'but does it kill us' worked a++ in this regard.
16:34 signpost asciilifeform: n-of-1, but I was discussing with my immunologist recently (getting allergy shots) that he's seeing boosted patients with immune disorders get *worse* covid.
16:35 * asciilifeform won't attempt to telepsychoanalyze mats, but ftr does suspect that the 'ugh martians' trick to some degree worked on him. 'i'ma serious diploma'd fella, i can't sit for 5min in the company of 'martians did 9-11' velveeta-eaters for even 5min w/out retching' etc
16:35 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 01:22:11 mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials
16:35 * signpost asked what the fuck difference is there between endless shots of same vaccine and what he was doing to desensitize to pollen.
16:36 signpost the reich outlets demanding I got get five more boosters when 1) had vax 2) had covid 3) have had antibody test with strong results... would welcome an explanation
16:36 asciilifeform signpost: asciilifeform wouldn't be astonished if turned out (somehow. unlikely we'll find out) that most of the doses consisted of simply saline.
16:37 signpost who knows, would prefer to live in a society where one could.
16:37 mangol ime people who went to university and never questioned much feel their intelligence is insulted in the company of people who don't stay withing the indicated "debate zone"
16:37 signpost and not "I'm in on the lie".
16:38 mangol "this guy doesn't stay within the approved debate zone. if i take this guy to brunch with my friends, they'll make a fool out of me for hanging out with unhinged people like him"
16:39 asciilifeform mangol: reich stratagem is to set up a perceived dichotomy where yer either 'with the program' or out in 'the lonesome deep space', outside the city walls, in company of 'martians did 9-11', etc. illiterates/schizos
16:39 signpost mangol: something like "you are the reason we can't go back to the good times"
16:39 signpost which itself is politically useful.
16:39 mangol yep. can be seen clearly in covid response, "anti-mrna-vax-for-healthy-young-people" is lumped in with "anti any vax for anyone ever in history", no middle ground
16:39 asciilifeform i.e. choose b/w 'believe the science'(tm)(r) or 'flat earth'
16:39 signpost aside the religious impulse in the left, state will assuage the terror before death.
16:41 * asciilifeform finds plausible the old theory that the orig. 'antivax' meme was a product of '80s turnerite white-population-control schemes
16:41 asciilifeform seems to have worked a++, e.g. measles returned to the industrialized world
16:41 * mangol suspect flat eartherism may be a shill operation to a large extent, to discredit conspiracy theory of any flavor
16:42 asciilifeform mangol: reich efforts in this direction are persistent and well-funded
16:42 asciilifeform 1 objective is to prevent anyffin in the way of defection from reich academia
16:43 asciilifeform gleichschaltung(tm)(r)
16:44 signpost thing is the beoble gladly help generate these.
16:44 billymg asciilifeform: that dichotomy works so well too. was having a discussion with someone here a few months back about the "fbi cracked the bitcoin keyz!" and explained that no, they didn't, and the media just lied about it. and his response was, "i bet you're one of those earth-is-actually-flat guys too"
16:44 asciilifeform naturally
16:44 asciilifeform billymg: worx a++
16:45 billymg "it's spelled Kiev, always has been" "flat earther!"
16:45 signpost "thank god, I can stop thinking about whether the FBI can stop the bad on WaPo"
16:46 billymg "women have vaginas" "terrorist!"
16:46 billymg etc.
16:46 asciilifeform ( see also e.g. ancient agitprop lulz )
16:46 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: 'Stop buying into this bullshit. You're getting played. If it's not a "main stream" news source, that means they don't have anyone to answer to and nobody will lose their job if they report inaccurate information. You're not "woke" for reading alternate news, you're a dipshit. Rather than poring over old news clips to prove that 9/11, Sandy Hook, or the Boston Marathon was an "inside job," you should go outside and
16:46 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: 'Now I know what you're thinking, "but Maddox, I have all my teeth!" You won't for long. People who read alternate news sites will eventually lose their teeth. It's an Anankean inevitability; you're going to do something stupid like put a firecracker in your mouth because you are stupid. Want to know how I know? Because you read bullshit instead of news, and you not only think you're informed, but that you're smart
16:46 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: populace because you're doing your own independent research from an independent news source. Except you're not. You're an idiot who's going to lose all his teeth. These sites are using you for money...' << is not, however, false.
16:46 billymg signpost: exactly
16:47 signpost life is a shock to everyone; most people never recover.
16:47 signpost and so what.
16:47 billymg for people who missed out on bitcoin that type of thought is extremely comforting
16:47 billymg "adults in the room still in control"
16:47 signpost "yes sweetheart, your survival depends entirely upon people that *despise* you."
16:47 signpost exactly right
16:53 signpost billymg: these are all tentacles of the big one.
16:53 signpost "you will die and no one can save you"
16:57 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088448 << exactly. ime this is the psychological driver behind most exhortations of "get back in line!"
16:57 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 12:46:57 billymg: "adults in the room still in control"
16:58 mangol the other (somewhat less severe but still formidable) driver being "i'll be embarrassed while having brunch with my chic friends"
16:59 signpost worth pointing out how fragile these relationships usually are.
16:59 mangol it's incredible how tptb can keep lying and messing everything up through random combinations of malice and incompetence, and a great % of people just ask for more
17:01 signpost mangol: what'd they do otherwise?
17:02 signpost not throwing this in your face, but you were quick to point out the emptiness of that signed declaration.
17:02 signpost might have to sit in the truth that they have no way to freedom.
17:03 signpost most people will choose a lie, which is strange, because don't they see themselves telling it? somehow not.
17:04 signpost on a completely other subj, just got a classic ipod, put 1tb SSD in, and I couldn't be more pleased with this device.
17:04 asciilifeform signpost: how do you get files in/outta the thing ?
17:05 signpost asciilifeform: surfaces itself as a USB block dev
17:05 asciilifeform a
17:05 * signpost put "rockbox" firmware on it for flac, etc
17:05 asciilifeform presumably this was prior to crapple fucking the hdd emulation
17:05 signpost it's a little weird, lies about the partition layout. I've had to boot apple firmware to get files into it reliably, but rockbox firmware can play just fine.
17:06 signpost ^ presumably to hide the firmware partition from connected puter
17:06 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088459 << you can and should throw it in my face since i gave you a hard time about it :p
17:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:01:28 signpost: not throwing this in your face, but you were quick to point out the emptiness of that signed declaration.
17:06 signpost sure sure
17:07 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088458 << 1 of the things they can do entirely for phree is to put down the rattles
17:07 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:01:00 signpost: mangol: what'd they do otherwise?
17:07 dulapbot Logged on 2021-02-22 17:25:44 asciilifeform: spoiler : it does not matter how much you shake the rattle. or how big is your particular rattle. or even if you can get 1e9 fellow rattlers to shake theirs with you.
17:07 signpost point being it's not clear from just seeing that, that signatory says to himself "I'm dead anyway, might as well spit teeth into oppressor's face"
17:07 signpost asciilifeform: one of the reason's I got an iPod, detoxing from hand-rectangle.
17:08 signpost *reasons
17:08 asciilifeform putting down the rattle costs 0. (i.e. stop voting, giving a shit about the 'candidates', what they do in the muppet threatre, etc)
17:08 asciilifeform costs 0
17:08 signpost costs something that bothers them, not you.
17:08 signpost I'm not just being metal about bringing up death.
17:09 * asciilifeform suspects that death feels much nearer for the rattlers than for tuned-out folx
17:13 signpost it's near for everybody, but determines much whether a complex of denial accumulates on it, or what.
17:14 signpost https://www.iflash.xyz/store/ << hd adapters for ipod
17:14 asciilifeform nifty
17:14 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088483 << ambiguous. actual or metaphorical death?
17:14 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:08:35 asciilifeform: suspects that death feels much nearer for the rattlers than for tuned-out folx
17:14 asciilifeform mangol: 'coward dies a thousand deaths, brave man -- one' sense
17:15 mangol thousand deaths = have to look yourself in the mirror every morning and hate what you see?
17:15 asciilifeform mangol: mno, in the banal sense where they walk outta house and 'will i covid to death today' etc
17:16 billymg http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088462 << heh, was just a few weeks ago thinking of doing the same with my old one (last i checked it still works, with the original mechanical drive)
17:16 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 17:04:32 signpost: on a completely other subj, just got a classic ipod, put 1tb SSD in, and I couldn't be more pleased with this device.
17:16 mangol right. will it be killer virus, killer extremists, killer food, killer climate
17:17 signpost billymg: got 26hr battery left at 85% right now. mechanical hd took a lot of juice.
17:17 billymg nice
17:17 asciilifeform in ru space, the condition in which reich seeks to maintain plebe re 'thousand deaths' is called 'emotional seesaw'
17:17 signpost iirc eventually skips too if running, so that problem goes away.
17:18 signpost seller I snagged from had already upgraded the battery, so that might factor in too.
17:18 asciilifeform monday 'we'll all die', tues.: 'miracle cure! if we all cooperate and Believe The Science!' wed.: 'we'll all die horribly, and soon' thurs.: 'miracle cure, Science Worx!11' etc
17:18 billymg signpost: what kind of ssd did it take?
17:18 signpost asciilifeform: "borderline personality disorder"
17:18 billymg when i looked up this process it included "find an adapter"
17:19 signpost billymg: yeah linked above
17:19 billymg ah ok
17:19 asciilifeform signpost: back when it was rare, was called 'maniac depressive' etc
17:19 signpost can choose whether you want msata, sd card, w/e
17:19 asciilifeform today is the expected mental state of usaschwitz dweller.
17:19 * signpost found a cheap 1tb msata, chose that.
17:20 signpost asciilifeform: yep, it's what someone does when they're consumed by fear, and have coping mechanisms that suppress it for a while.
17:20 signpost the manic end also chitters nervously, avoidantly.
17:20 asciilifeform the chitter is the aimed condition, from reich pov
17:21 signpost yeah, what'd nietzsche call it, blenchen or w/e
17:21 asciilifeform chitterer is not at risk of rational thought, even for brief interval / by accident
17:21 signpost "ooh shiny"
17:21 signpost or your hill-climber.
17:21 asciilifeform chitter occupies the forebrain, which could otherwise interfere w/ the hillclimber 'amoebic' hind
17:21 signpost billymg: actually looking forward to pest p2p net to put e.g. album collections on there, among more important things.
17:22 signpost asciilifeform: yeah, you're right, different parts of the beast.
17:22 asciilifeform 1337 w4r3z
17:23 mangol me most are relieved to voluntarily suppress their thinking at the first opportunity
17:23 mangol *ime most are
17:23 billymg signpost: yeah, high time everyone returned to managing their own collection instead of relying solely on streaming services
17:24 * signpost has upheld the tradition.
17:24 signpost got a pile of vinyl too like any respectable hipster.
17:24 mangol "a conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking". s/tired/afraid, works as well
17:24 * asciilifeform never once used 'streaming services', with the exception of phree lolcattube linx on occasion
17:25 * signpost had spotify for a bit, found it was detuning my preferences rather than meeting them.
17:26 * billymg looks forward to perusing signpost's collection once available on pestnet
17:26 billymg yeah, i got lazy during my saltmining years and switched to netflix/spotify
17:27 billymg abandoned the former long ago in favor of my own collection but still use spotify now and then
17:27 signpost get ready for styx sitting right next to sviatoslav richter and robyn
17:27 billymg though also rebuilding audio collection at the moment
17:28 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088530 << obligatory [https://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already-been-designed/][Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed
17:28 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:26:09 billymg: yeah, i got lazy during my saltmining years and switched to netflix/spotify
17:29 billymg mangol: love how it starts with "Well I’m in the working world again."
17:29 billymg that's what does it
17:30 billymg the problem of too much money on a micro scale
17:39 mangol billymg: seems like a bit of a different thing. employees can invest their pay
17:40 mangol article says employees need to be artificially kept in a permanent state of too little free time, so they are exhausted and have to spend their way out of every problem
17:41 asciilifeform mangol: primary purpose of most 'desk flyer' employment is specifically to destroy free time
17:41 mangol easily agreed
17:41 billymg mangol: yeah, i see that now after actually reading the article. jumped the gun and first thought of the money printing problem
17:41 mangol not so much "money burning a hole in your pocket" as "too exhausted to do anything except spend money"
17:41 billymg right, yup, makes sense
17:42 billymg and i can relate completely, and even though i was conscious of it at the time, told myself "it's ok, because you're making money now"
17:42 mangol thanks for linking the trilema article though, hadn't thought of that angle
17:44 asciilifeform 'it’s quite difficult for us to avoid increasing our standard of living (or at least our rate of spending) every time we get a raise' << good % of this is illusion, and what people actually do is ~buying same~ (or moar threadbare) ~after n yrs of inflationism~
17:46 asciilifeform in the most extreme case of this -- say you wanted to live in current reich today w/ same standard of living as e.g. engineer in 1900. would need to spend coupla $mil / y.
17:47 signpost you should see the house my coal-miner great grandfather lived in.
17:47 signpost beautiful.
17:47 asciilifeform aaha
17:47 asciilifeform is on the continuum
17:47 billymg "You work 40-plus hours or you work zero." << i genuinely wonder if the post-covid wfh scheme is a new tacit agreement reached between labor and capital for the information age
17:48 billymg i.e. if you're a tech worker you can now work 10 hours a week as a "full time" salaried employee
17:49 asciilifeform billymg: observe that mandatory telephonic/camwhoric meetings effectively prevent slave from behaving like someone who genuinely only '10h wk'
17:49 asciilifeform even if sums to <10h
17:50 asciilifeform cuz 'wat if boss calls' etc
17:50 signpost yeah, both never ends and nothing gets done.
17:50 asciilifeform the 'keep plebe in his place' gets done.
17:50 signpost "omaigad, our tower of chairs fell down at 2am" and pager goes off.
17:50 asciilifeform which is, largely, the objective
17:50 billymg asciilifeform: right, but even when i was in an office it was perfectly acceptable to "got some errands today, will be in and out!" on the wfh days (we already had one wfh day per week at that time)
17:51 mats plenty of ordinary people have issues with vaccine policies, you have only to walk around and talk to them about it
17:51 signpost people were regularly shocked at what my team could get done until they got used to the $megacorp life, rotted.
17:53 mats where people get off the train is when you the 'we should not use any vaccines, even during active pandemic, until theyve been tested for a year or more' when you have 0 medical training
17:53 * signpost brb
17:53 mats when you run the* 'we should not use any vaccines ...'
17:54 mats it'd be more honest to do the verisimilitude thing, where you openly first admit you want society to burn (and i am on that train)
17:55 * shinohai also here for the burning, loves watching empires fall .....
17:55 billymg "active pandemic!" says who?
17:56 asciilifeform mats: fwiw asciilifeform had the vaccine . at same time strongly suspects that it was a cynical fraud.
17:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 16:15:30 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform so far: covid #1 (shortly after outbreak) , mildly annoying; covid #2 ('21) mildly annoying; vax (two-part) ; covid #3 ( dec. '21 ) , nasty , 3wks of ugh
17:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 12:36:05 asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform wouldn't be astonished if turned out (somehow. unlikely we'll find out) that most of the doses consisted of simply saline.
17:56 billymg you do realize that if you allow the loophole: "in an emergency" then there will simply always be an emergency
17:56 mangol ^ exactly
17:56 mats got it, no emergency measures, evar
17:57 mangol when i was a kid (and iÃ'mfairly young) we wouldn't have considered a glorified flu a global emergency
17:58 billymg mats: nah, i think it just comes down to the fact that our current rulers can't be trusted
17:58 asciilifeform mats: would deny that reich officials did moar or less errything possible to destroy trust in their 'emergency handings' ?
17:58 asciilifeform *handlings
17:58 mats sure, distrust in usg has been curated for decades
17:59 asciilifeform picture if yer local fire dept. were over9000x more likely to walk off with yer valuables than to put out fire. would still be eager to call ?
17:59 mats its not a coincidence that the poorest and dumbest people, to incl poor whites blacks and hispanics, had the lowest uptake of the vaccine
17:59 mangol for starters, where's the covid-induced bump in all cause death rates 2020 and 2021 compared to prior years?
17:59 mats this doesn't rise to the level of unfounded claims about vaccine safety
17:59 mangol all cause, because "death by/with covid" is almost certainly massively weaseled
18:00 asciilifeform mangol: good % of'em are simply deaths by withheld 'elective' medical care
18:00 mats i expect a higher level of discourse from you people, where we can discuss controversial subjects without deception
18:00 asciilifeform mats: 'contradicts nyt' == 'deception' ?
18:01 asciilifeform mats: will deny that hospitals closed for 'elective' under fraudulent pretenses ? or wat
18:01 asciilifeform or, rly, insist that erry 'covid corpse' actually died the claimed death ?
18:02 mats you're still skating around the claim, which, granted, you didn't make
18:02 asciilifeform which claim, mats ?
18:02 mats maybe you got an allergy
18:03 asciilifeform that the vax is a dud ? cn, south kr where mass outbreak (per reich media!) atm not evidence enuff ?
18:03 mats http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088044
18:03 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 15:43:37 mangol: exactly. but taking the risk made no sense
18:04 mats what's interesting about the outbreak in hk is the unusual age distribution in vaccinated people, due to public health decisions
18:04 asciilifeform mats: elaborate?
18:04 mangol it was apparent early on that covid is quite harmless unless you are old or have a major chronic illness
18:04 mats lots of middle aged people got it, not nearly as many in over 65s
18:05 mangol "old or have a major chronic illness" is also the expected risk group for vaccine side effects
18:06 mangol why would you take some reich-approved experimental thing that "zomg everyone needs!" if there's no obvious risk from the disease, or (if you're in risk group) risk from disease is likely to be same as risk from vax?
18:06 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088577 No emergency measures, unless I agree with them.
18:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:55:46 mats: got it, no emergency measures, evar
18:07 mats less than 25% of people over 80 in hk got two doses of the vax prior to omicron, and this has contributed to the waves of casualties
18:08 verisimilitude Good, let them die.
18:08 verisimilitude I'd like to watch someone die because I didn't get vaccinated.
18:08 mats we know
18:10 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088569 I won't have mine empathy hijacked.
18:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:53:26 mats: it'd be more honest to do the verisimilitude thing, where you openly first admit you want society to burn (and i am on that train)
18:10 verisimilitude ``Get the vaccine, bigot.''
18:10 verisimilitude ``Install the TLS certificate, luddite.''
18:11 verisimilitude ``Do this, do that, for strangers.''
18:11 asciilifeform verisimilitude: see also however. (vaccines per se -- quite vintage tech.)
18:11 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 12:40:30 asciilifeform: finds plausible the old theory that the orig. 'antivax' meme was a product of '80s turnerite white-population-control schemes
18:11 mangol found someone who refused latest reich software update --> "literally hitler!1 killing grannies!"
18:13 mangol verisimilitude: soon "put the microchip under your skin". at least 1 swedish company already openly boasting about it
18:13 mangol of course, under the pretext that it's safe and effective for public health
18:14 verisimilitude I was never willing to urinate in a cup on demand, for an employer; so, naturally, injecting something inside of me was completely unacceptable.
18:14 billymg mats: i still don't understand why you care so much about people dying when: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1087671
18:14 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-24 07:20:57 mats: as the knowledge gap grows, probably it is best that the socioeconomic inequality gap also grows
18:15 billymg i just don't understand the inconsistency. "they ain't smart enough, let 'em starve" "they aren't healthy enough, we must protect them!!"
18:16 billymg is it because in the second case mats believes he needs protecting? if so that's sort of hypocritical, no?
18:18 mats we can discuss antisocial behavior without plugging in bullshit about risk
18:18 mats you might need to wrap up the two to swallow the thing, i don't
18:19 billymg swallow what thing?
18:19 billymg i just know i'm healthy enough that i'll take my chances with the virus
18:19 billymg and if i'm not, then i don't deserve to pass on my genes
18:19 billymg but so far still waiting to die...
18:20 mats "the vaccine is too risky and untested"
18:20 billymg mats: in this case, to me, personally, any risk > 0 is too much
18:21 billymg for you, maybe not, and i can respect that. it's your decision
18:21 billymg so back to policy, let people make their own choices, if they die they die
18:22 billymg who needs a bunch of poor rednecks anyway, right?
18:22 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 17:59:20 mats: its not a coincidence that the poorest and dumbest people, to incl poor whites blacks and hispanics, had the lowest uptake of the vaccine
18:22 mats the discussion has been about the population, and some of what society does is telling people what to do
18:22 billymg yes, which is fine if those doing the telling have the interest of the people in mind
18:24 billymg this is old as time too, you have to believe in your king to be willing to obey orders / fight and die for him. if you don't, you explore other options
18:25 mats options like telling people on the internet that the vaccine is untested and risky
18:25 billymg "information warfare is only ok when we do it"
18:27 mats information warfare is more effective when you don't lie
18:28 billymg right, so i don't. i say the vaccine has non-zero risk (hard to prove otherwise) and i say for me it's not worth it
18:28 mats this expands the potential target audience to everyone, not just the people that have problems with authority
18:29 mats anyway, back to breaking big rocks
18:30 billymg ok... so how is that my problem? if they're dumb enough to believe what i write on the internet then they deserve to be filtered, as per your view, no?
18:30 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-24 07:20:57 mats: as the knowledge gap grows, probably it is best that the socioeconomic inequality gap also grows
18:31 billymg mats: enjoy
18:31 * billymg must also bbl
18:33 billymg before i go though, i don't want what i wrote to be misinterpreted as advocating for spreading misinformation. i genuinely believe not taking the vax if you're young and healthy is the right choice, so when i make this argument, i am making it in good faith, with the interests of those i'm talking to in mind
18:33 signpost mats: I wouldn't even dismiss the idea that society's being culled in order from least obedient to most, which sounds like what you're intimating.
18:34 billymg ^ popular theory on 4chan too
18:34 signpost this is not even to say that it was engineered to do so.
18:34 signpost "ah good, finally something came along to thin the beoble of walmart"
18:35 signpost given impending resource constraints, probably will be more of this.
18:36 * signpost thinks agency is too often ascribed to what is more often simply stepping out of the way and letting people get hit. see also: 9/11
18:37 signpost this condescending "management" is exactly the ideology of both right and left american politics, in slightly varying flavors.
18:38 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088638 << in this, I see an uninspected, or at least unexpressed omission that the authoritarian machine is for hire, and of short attention span.
18:38 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 14:21:18 mats: the discussion has been about the population, and some of what society does is telling people what to do
18:40 signpost sure, two shots of e.g. moderna's vax probably decreases risk for most people. then somebody looks at an impending earnings cliff and conveniently, 3, 4, n shots.
18:40 signpost people you consider rubes can pick up the scam in ^ even if they're otherwise statistically, scientificially, illiterate.
18:41 signpost hell, what animal can't tell when another has taken the feint. my cats do it.
18:47 signpost one can even imagine the bureaucrat at the NIH saying to himself that if covid isn't blown out of proportion, and used to establish precedent for rapidly vaccinating the whole country, next plauge (say like the iirc hemmorhagic MERS, but with omicron's transmissibility) might be game over.
18:48 signpost gods don't care if we get a winning move, is my view, at least.
18:50 asciilifeform signpost: possibly part of the covidiocy scheme's objective was to undermine credibility of (past & future) vax which actually work
18:51 * signpost figures the thing's a writhing ball of worms, each with own interest.
18:51 verisimilitude That's the other side of the 4chan and related thinking.
18:51 verisimilitude ``What if next time, the vaccine actually will be needed?''
18:52 signpost and yes, "vax" that kinda works, but with subscription rather than one-time purchase, $$$$
18:52 verisimilitude Nobody knows, so I choose apathy.
18:53 asciilifeform moar fundamentally, with the reich being the sole source of any kinda mass stats, the question aint a 'public health question' but a 'credibility of reich' question
18:53 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088449 << yup yup
18:53 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 12:47:02 signpost: "yes sweetheart, your survival depends entirely upon people that *despise* you."
18:54 signpost same problem as CPUs, needed and only made by the enemy.
18:54 signpost attenuated virus vaccine may even be more dangerous, end up giving you the disease in question.
18:54 * signpost still wanted this for the robust immunity, aware of risk.
18:55 asciilifeform virus per se seems to be good for 6mo+ immun
18:56 asciilifeform the interesting, psychologically, aspect of the mats thread is the difficulty, for some folx, of making the jump to 'reich stats likely bogus, all i can rely on is personal experience of self and those around me'
18:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 12:38:16 asciilifeform: mangol: reich stratagem is to set up a perceived dichotomy where yer either 'with the program' or out in 'the lonesome deep space', outside the city walls, in company of 'martians did 9-11', etc. illiterates/schizos
18:57 asciilifeform goes screamingly against the 'scientism' baked into firmware by reich 'education'
18:57 signpost perhaps you grew up with people who were more reliable in their common sense.
18:58 asciilifeform were, at any rate
18:59 verisimilitude I still like the USG statistics about groups towards whom I hold disdain.
18:59 * asciilifeform watched parents contract rather obvious covid during init outbreak, then 'hey wapo proclaimed that old folx couldn't possib survive unscathed, it couldn've been covid, we'll button up in house for year' etc
18:59 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088651 << this sounds like the kind of disclaimer that people put at the end of a publication to avoid persecution for thoughtcrimes
18:59 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 18:33:05 billymg: before i go though, i don't want what i wrote to be misinterpreted as advocating for spreading misinformation. i genuinely believe not taking the vax if you're young and healthy is the right choice, so when i make this argument, i am making it in good faith, with the interests of those i'm talking to in mind
19:00 mangol not implying you do it intentionally, but good to learn out of the habit
19:00 signpost yep. sometimes people are just dealing with the flatness of the medium (text)
19:01 mangol experience so far shows that the left has 0 interest in protecting people who dutifully complied with prior years' dogma
19:01 mangol be a visible goodthinking leftist for 15 years -> make some foible on the 16th year -> banhammered, unemployed etc.
19:02 signpost inshallah bitcoin knocks a few of us loose to focus more on the wot, still waiting for that next zero.
19:02 mangol "misinformation" == information that didn't come from harvard
19:02 signpost as all of these problems come from sickness of relationship.
19:03 signpost consider if the wot contained a respected epidemiologist, both here and among others in that field.
19:03 signpost how the thread would go then.
19:03 verisimilitude Consider if he also had the memetic virus.
19:04 asciilifeform signpost: sorta contradiction in terms, couldn't be still 'respected' if departed from party line
19:04 signpost if wot can't infect the outside, no point in having it.
19:04 * signpost ain't ideologically dead on that front yet
19:04 verisimilitude Most of us are programmers, but I certainly don't hold your opinions as necessarily valid.
19:04 signpost yet here we sit talking.
19:04 signpost "willing to hear" is not belief.
19:05 asciilifeform signpost: what'd 'infect outside' look like ?
19:07 signpost more meatsacks in the wot, such that link analysis can be done from/to any of 'em.
19:08 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088643 << reich lies habitually
19:08 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 14:27:00 mats: information warfare is more effective when you don't lie
19:09 * asciilifeform wonders how many inhabitants of planet3 even mentally competent to participate in wotronics, given existing tech
19:09 verisimilitude Take the amount of people using Facebook, and subtract that from the population, to start.
19:09 signpost mangol: mats appears to think that we tacitly believe the vax probably works, but think it's fine if the weak get ravaged by the illness.
19:09 signpost leave it to him to correct me.
19:09 signpost i.e. "we are in on the lie"
19:10 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088645 << "problems with authority" is one of numerous instances where mental health diagnoses are selectively applied to discredit opponents
19:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 14:27:56 mats: this expands the potential target audience to everyone, not just the people that have problems with authority
19:10 verisimilitude Let mats be made aware I don't think it works.
19:10 asciilifeform near as can tell, errybody who can be 'ravaged', will be ravaged. 'don't run from the sniper, you'll just die tired'(tm)
19:10 verisimilitude The flavour of this discussion is clear when we make it about programming.
19:10 signpost o/^ "all.. our times.. have come" o/^
19:11 verisimilitude ``MicroSoft says we need the fourth booster pack. They know programmers.''
19:11 mangol signpost: "in on the lie" approx. equal to "feel good about myself at chic brunch"?
19:11 mangol part of the aspirational class fake inner circle that asciilifeform talked about
19:12 mangol or if not aspirational class, then the wider laptop class
19:12 verisimilitude I'd like for programming to be a regulated endeavour, but that requires the regulators to know what programming is.
19:13 signpost mangol: everything is a lie in america. the only wisdom is being aware of the angle.
19:13 asciilifeform verisimilitude: if were up to reich, taking a shit would be a 'regulated endeavour'. fortunately 'hands too short'
19:13 signpost (is the perspective)
19:13 signpost comes of financialism and consumerism.
19:15 asciilifeform per asciilifeform , stockholm syndrome is the fundamental underpinning of 'believe the science!'(tm)(r) 'hamstering'
19:15 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-02-17 asciilifeform: afaik all literate folk know about, e.g., the auschwitz inmates who collected scraps of german uniforms, etc.
19:15 verisimilitude It's quite funny how people can look upon this world and think a loving god created it.
19:15 signpost that it is.
19:16 * signpost credits the meatsacks 100%.
19:16 signpost god, if exists, is the self-balancing mechanism in nature which will erase us if we keep screeching about our sovereignty over reality.
19:19 asciilifeform current reich is based on model of 'cheaper to guard the concentration camp if the inmates can be persuaded that they aint in one' ;
19:19 asciilifeform see also e.g.
19:19 dulapbot (trilema) 2019-03-14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902463 << limonov had entire b00k on subj, with slightly different twist ( tldr : the 'free world' built 'disciplinary sanitarium' (his term) where ideas-dun-matter-even-if-you-somehow-come-across-one cuz they all get http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ )
19:19 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: 'Frightened of its own cannibalism during the First, and, moreover, the Second world wars. 'civilized' mankind dashed from the 'hard' to the 'soft' mode of violence. (The deciding factors: 1. the restraining influence of atomic weapons and 2. the advent of new technologies of production, which made possible an overfeeding of the masses.) If the essence of 'hard' violence consists in the physical suppression of
19:19 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: man, 'soft' is based on the encouragement of his weaknesses. The ideal of 'hard' violence - to convert the world into a maximum security prison, of 'soft' - to convert man himself into a domestic animal.'
19:19 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: (limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium')
19:20 asciilifeform signpost: 'gods of the copybook headings'(tm)(kipling)
19:23 signpost beautiful.
19:24 signpost They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
19:24 signpost So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
19:25 verisimilitude A panopticon is cheaper than a typical prison.
19:26 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088719 << yes -- if microsoft was also responsible for tax policy, border control, monetary policy, education system, ...
19:26 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 19:11:15 verisimilitude: ``MicroSoft says we need the fourth booster pack. They know programmers.''
19:27 mangol authority does every imaginable and unimaginable thing to discredit itself -> wonder why difficult people have problems with authority
19:28 verisimilitude Those machines are running Windows, but that wasn't my point.
~ 38 minutes ~
20:06 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088692 << can't speak for other folx, but in asciilifeform's corner of the barbed wire, 'sandwich' seems set to win the race for 'new zero', well ahead of btc-usd exchrt
20:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 15:01:26 signpost: inshallah bitcoin knocks a few of us loose to focus more on the wot, still waiting for that next zero.
20:06 dulapbot (alethepedia) 2020-10-11 asciilifeform: thimbronion: the altcoinists -- sure . but i was speaking of the fact that the exch rate prolly aint growing another 0 -- or rather, not w/out the dollar price of archaetypical sandwich also growing a zero.
20:07 asciilifeform i.e. the exact reverse of 'btc to moon' scenario
20:07 mats i guess if you believe the science is a lie, or the statistics are a lie, and the only thing that matters is your bubble of personal experience and 5 people, then at least we finally have arrived at an understanding
20:08 mats very clever
20:08 asciilifeform mats: outta curiosity, is there a hypothetical 'red line' where, if crossed, you'd set 'bozo bit' on reich.academia ?
20:08 asciilifeform ( or willing to swallow anyffin at all, no matter how laffably contradictory to lived experience or ordinary logic ? )
20:08 mats if there was an active dispute among scientists about experimental results, yes
20:09 asciilifeform very easy to make 'no dispute' if the disputants 'no longer scientists' by reich decree, neh
20:09 asciilifeform sorta how 'there's no dispute' that 'putin is antichrist' if yer tuned into reich's fishwraps
20:09 mats and you think that's happening?
20:10 asciilifeform happening for ~20y in 'climatology', for instance
20:10 mats scientists are being fired and defrocked for disputing the efficacy of various vaccines?
20:10 asciilifeform why limit to covid. wainot start with e.g. duesberg.
20:11 mats right, so there's a concerted effort to stop science fags from sciencing
20:11 mats very interesting
20:11 asciilifeform mats: skip the strawmen plox
20:12 mats from climate research to vaccine research
20:13 asciilifeform from (at least) the 'ozone hole' bullshit (proj. of dupont inc)
20:13 asciilifeform shining success, inspired subsequent lulz
20:14 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088749 << yep, not holding my breath til '24, oughta make things lively again, if not sooner.
20:14 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 16:05:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088692 << can't speak for other folx, but in asciilifeform's corner of the barbed wire, 'sandwich' seems set to win the race for 'new zero', well ahead of btc-usd exchrt
20:15 mats i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling
20:15 signpost bud, you're approximately yelling at the tv by now.
20:16 asciilifeform mats: btw didja ever do time in reich.academia ? ( e.g. asciilifeform has, described subj in logs plentifully )
20:16 PeterL mats: expand on how to make >500mn/yr? I would gladly switch to however you get that to work?
20:17 mats do a phd, then an md, and treat cancer patients
20:17 asciilifeform PeterL: lol it's 'could be making', exists, like the voltage on dead watch battery, until you connect a load..
20:17 mats the rich patients
20:17 PeterL still seems off by ~3 orders of magnitude
20:17 mats sorry, 500k
20:17 * asciilifeform read 'k' lol
20:18 signpost half mil is about right for any megacorp job after a promotion or two.
20:18 asciilifeform a successful surgeon indeed can make 500k easily enuff
20:18 mats surely there are problems with academia but there is no active suppression of researchers
20:18 asciilifeform thing is that there aint a need for 1e8 surgeons anywhere
20:18 mats not in this manner
20:19 asciilifeform (not does typical paper monkey have 'hands growing outta right place' to be a surgeon)
20:19 mats i love conspiracies as much as the next goyim
20:20 asciilifeform mats: 'conspiracy' is a reich shibboleth
20:20 verisimilitude The word has a legitimate definition, asciilifeform.
20:20 verisimilitude It's merely that it has been poisoned in common usage.
20:21 verisimilitude I won't allow the word ``conspiracy'' to be ruined any more than I'd allow it for ``woman''.
20:21 asciilifeform verisimilitude: largely used in cheapo signaling, 'shuddup terrorist, or live in the company of 'martians did 911''
20:21 mats i remember when we did the 9/11 thread in #b-a
20:21 signpost mats: put some light between this "all the researchers aren't being suppressed" and some of the scandals regarding pharmeceutical companies in the last few decades for me
20:22 mats i mentioned that my grandparents watched the second plane hit the tower, when some guy was talking about controlled demo
20:22 asciilifeform ( also used in reich.jurusprudence, originally to denote 'criminal conspiracy' i.e. premeditated crime with >1 participant; then lulzily redefined to include even 1! can 'conspire w/ self' )
20:22 mats hilarious
20:22 asciilifeform *jurisprudence
20:22 mats can you elaborate, signpost
20:23 signpost what is the process by which pharmeceutical companies provide data to journals?
20:23 signpost has there ever been a case where omissions, technically-honest aggregations, etc., have been used to get things approved which later cause e.g. stroke, heart valve failure, w/e
20:24 signpost if so, how does this happen?
20:24 mats i don't do pharma research, why are you asking me
20:24 signpost I'm not doing the left/right thing; it's a waste of my pulse.
20:24 signpost you're the derp sitting here declaring yourself a defender of The Science, so do it.
20:24 mats you mentioned scandals, give me some reporting
20:24 signpost are you somehow unaware of the cases I was referencing with my examples?
20:24 signpost go read about pfizer for an hour and come back.
20:25 mats very helpful and edgy
20:25 signpost you think in memes, dude.
20:25 signpost "edgy", really?
20:25 mats i tried very hard to be patient
20:25 asciilifeform reporting << e.g. these ? or not enuff ?
20:25 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 12:28:41 signpost: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history << >> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/
20:26 signpost mats: apparently not patient enough to read ^
20:26 PeterL I am involved in the margins of pharma research, maybe I can shed some light on this topic, if you have specific questions?
20:26 asciilifeform ' September 2, 2009 ... American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products, the Justice Department announced today.'
20:26 asciilifeform ^ and that's just when egregious enuff that even reich organs barfed!
20:27 * mats reads
20:28 asciilifeform not even mentioning the 'unindicted' fraugs, e.g. the mega-push of statins (do you know any statin patients whose brain not detectably dissolving?)
20:28 asciilifeform *frauds
20:29 asciilifeform ... or the mass push of ssri, 'mood stabilizers', etc. producing over9000 zombies
20:29 signpost https://www.npr.org/2007/11/10/5470430/timeline-the-rise-and-fall-of-vioxx << another famous case.
20:29 asciilifeform could fill MBs of log with these if wanted.
20:29 asciilifeform no shortage.
20:30 asciilifeform and again those are just where actual corpses. plenty w/out, with merely crippling effects, but a++ reich.ok
20:30 asciilifeform 'because reasons'
20:30 signpost "Weinblatt fills out a financial disclosure form that says he and his wife own $72,975 of Merck stock." << hue
20:31 asciilifeform signpost: can moar or less freely add a 0 or 2 to these (what kinda lizard actually discloses 100% holdings)
20:31 signpost asciilifeform: sure, I wrote about my own case where I was fed quetiapine for insomnia.
20:31 asciilifeform aha asciilifeform recalls
20:31 signpost astra zeneca paid huge fines over that.
20:31 asciilifeform almost errybody in usa has l1 (or direct) story like that
20:31 asciilifeform yet 'not data, anecdote!'(tm)(r)
20:31 asciilifeform cuz, remember, if not came outta nyt, it aint Science(tm)
20:32 signpost it is until it isn't, and the loyal will just as quickly switch sides and bleat that it has always been.
20:32 asciilifeform naturally
20:32 asciilifeform normally story flips when a patent expires
20:33 signpost and before the idiot attack comes from mats, this does not mean everything that comes out of these companies is therefore poison, or that the researchers in their labs are all secret liars.
20:33 asciilifeform then, $olddrug 'dangerous, here's where you can class action sue', $new -- a++
20:33 signpost it is better for these companies if there is the cover of legitimate, honest research.
20:33 asciilifeform most of what comes out is endless reshuffle, for patent purpose, of 50+y.o. items.
20:34 asciilifeform occasionally the 'patentability mod' has spectacular bomb effect.
20:34 * signpost had his health back in about 5 years after the quetiapine.
20:34 signpost and had to work for it.
20:36 PeterL what did it do to you?
20:38 verisimilitude There was a time in my life during which I considered taking depression pills. Fortunately, I was too lazy.
20:39 signpost PeterL: gut issues, blood pressure, misc nervous system strange.
20:42 signpost had e.g. debilitating migraines to the point of puke/pass-out for years after, now gone.
20:43 * asciilifeform in '09 was fed 'cipro' as 'prophylactic against possible pneumonia with swine flu', had knock-down random tendon pains for ~7y after
20:43 asciilifeform famous scamdrug, massively stockpiled by usg during bush ii's 'anthrax theatre', resulted in huge surplus that had to be pawned off somehow
20:44 asciilifeform asciilifeform 'got off lightly' arguably -- for some, apparently, permanent
20:44 verisimilitude I do occasionally question how my typing pain only happened after 2020, by my memory.
20:45 signpost inflammatory disease is on the rise.
20:45 verisimilitude I already avoid sugar and the like.
20:46 verisimilitude I'm improving, I think.
20:46 verisimilitude I'm avoiding certain oils, now.
20:46 asciilifeform usa fulla folx taking 5-6 ???s , of'em most 'against side effects of other'
20:46 asciilifeform typically once victim gets on that treadmill, stays until gives up ghost
20:47 asciilifeform (for which anyone but the prescriber or pharma scammer is blamed)
20:49 verisimilitude I can, in principle, go into the woods and survive. I'd likely, but not certainly, die. I never want to lose that option.
20:49 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088840 << worth noting also how reich.academia typically behaves even when ~0 serious dough at stake.
20:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 16:32:24 signpost: and before the idiot attack comes from mats, this does not mean everything that comes out of these companies is therefore poison, or that the researchers in their labs are all secret liars.
20:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-14 13:43:52 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: academitards ~never share working src. because typically there aint one (if there's anyffin resembling a proggy -- it's a pile of rigged demo bullshit which shits out the charts that go into the paper liquishit, rarely anyffin moar)
20:49 verisimilitude Addiction eliminates it.
20:50 * signpost sounds like broken record, but because it mostly doesn't stick.
20:50 asciilifeform ( not even speaking of when there's dough. e.g. recall the planetary-scale stinkfest when 'climatologist' data-fudging src leaked )
20:50 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-02 12:16:03 asciilifeform: ( someone leaked mailing list where the 'climate experts' were openly discussing how best to cook the #s, silence 'terrorist' critics, etc )
20:50 signpost people will be screeching that there must be a way out for them the whole way down.
20:50 signpost THEY ARE OWED it.
20:50 signpost this is surely what every imperial subject said in every fallen empire.
20:51 asciilifeform signpost: not even 'there's way' but 'there's nothing to need way out of, all going by plan'
20:51 signpost that if you close your eyes, you can know in your heart that it still lives.
20:51 signpost yep
20:52 signpost the old cunts in DC will be aghast, say unprecedented, do nothing, at every click of the ratchet.
20:52 signpost entirely despite the well meaning hard work of whichever lab rat.
20:54 signpost anyway why be sad. it means things don't remain broken forever. nature works, just not for you
20:54 dulapbot (trilema) 2017-10-03 phf: i'm not sure, but not in the way that phrase is cliche in english. god loves you, christ acts from inner great love. i'm not sure christ loves ~you~ as such
21:04 asciilifeform signpost: asciilifeform finds fascinating the psychological tension where folx who 'identify as intellectual' are terrified of 'being kicked outta intellectuals' (1st and foremost by 'policeman in own head') and consequently buy into laffable Official nonsense by the megatonne. ( dunno if mats diagnosably fits in this group, but shows worrisome symptoms imho, what w/ linx to papers w/ 'freedom index'(tm) with straight
21:04 asciilifeform face, etc)
21:05 asciilifeform this was observable in late sovok, where otherwise entirely rational folx would stick a marx&engels ref into e.g. physics work, not from Official mandate, but simply to moar confortably live 'in own head'
21:06 asciilifeform *comfortably
21:06 signpost hard to say with the way the guy's communicating, is all.
21:06 * signpost offered pretty evenhanded syntheses in thread, imho.
21:06 * asciilifeform defo hopes mats doesn't walk off any time soon, is rather curious re thought process, i.e. is it the above
21:07 asciilifeform ( ...or is moar like dpb's 'don't go to hell!' , i.e. actually hopes to convert sumbody? which. )
21:07 asciilifeform ( or both..? )
21:08 * asciilifeform reminded inescapably of various convs w/ relatives, with whom can go surprisingly far on logical path, only to then hear cnn/nyt parroted again next day/wk
21:10 signpost probably deep in the meat, to never believe one's in a double-bind.
21:11 * signpost does not exclude himself from these statements, thinks they are probably heard as aimed at "you".
21:11 asciilifeform meat wants 'reassure', is wai turns on the cnntube/nyt/etc.
21:12 signpost not religious, but retained the notion that man has to know how broken he is to be more.
21:12 asciilifeform tube will helpfully 'inform' that e.g. extra 0 on prices is 'from orc aggression', 'vax for covid', etc
21:16 asciilifeform the fascinating thing is that even a stint of work in the reich kitchens where these 'dishes' are cooked, is rarely curative.
21:16 asciilifeform 'memory hole effect'(tm)
21:16 signpost maybe the bones feel war coming; if so, not even wrong.
21:17 asciilifeform war already in.
21:17 signpost to them. not tv.
21:17 signpost but yes
21:18 asciilifeform over9000x funnier, if go & read e.g. the ukr groundlings, even tank column rolling straight through yer lobby aint necessarily curative.
21:20 asciilifeform ( oblig. ukr joak : (2, over bottle of vodka) 'hey let's go beat up some jiggerz' 'sure, but what if -- they, us?' 'they, beat up us? for what??' )
21:21 asciilifeform 'а нас за що'
21:23 signpost lol
21:24 signpost sorta saying that everyone's preparing their blame for the defeat.
21:24 signpost seems about right. gotta be ahead of the trade!
21:24 * signpost bbl, gonna grunt out some work.
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
22:54 mats https://slashdot.org/story/22/03/25/1921241/exxon-weighs-taking-gas-to-bitcoin-pilot-to-four-countries
22:56 asciilifeform mats: recall
22:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-09 15:13:30 mats: interesting arb of 'stranded energy' in nat gas flares or however that works
22:58 * asciilifeform lulz at the morons who 'ohnoez evil polluters' when already for almost 2centuries flares burn
23:03 crtdaydreams re: pest filesharing, how would filesharing permissions be executed? i.e. an file transfer eqiv of /query for each file to be transferred where peer can reject or accept (and also cancel transfer and discard packets) or will you be able to set a peer to "allow files / always accept"
23:05 crtdaydreams On the pest side of things, traffic analysis to see which peers are sending large volumes of data, would it be to the whole network as to obfuscate in the current way?
23:05 crtdaydreams s/the/sent to the/
~ 43 minutes ~
23:49 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088652 << Impartial to current debate I'd like to point out that using the very same logic of most ''anti-vax'' types (e.g. ``state wants to kill me with vaxx depopulation!!1!''), one could argue that conversely the vaxx is designed to weasel out the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-
23:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 14:32:21 signpost: mats: I wouldn't even dismiss the idea that society's being culled in order from least obedient to most, which sounds like what you're intimating.
23:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 14:19:28 mats: "the vaccine is too risky and untested"
23:49 crtdaydreams 25#1088652][disobedient] and ``covid'' is to kill those disobedient. Catch22. But there is unconscious choice to chose the former interpretation; either a) stupidity or b) they have more faith in reich than say ``pro-vaxx''
23:51 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088912 << can't picture any need for anyffin moar granular than 'l1 peers can ask for index & files'
23:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 19:03:05 crtdaydreams: re: pest filesharing, how would filesharing permissions be executed? i.e. an file transfer eqiv of /query for each file to be transferred where peer can reject or accept (and also cancel transfer and discard packets) or will you be able to set a peer to "allow files / always accept"
23:52 asciilifeform ( if you aint a peer, i.e. can't talk to $station -- talk to yer own peers, see if they have whatcha want )
23:52 crtdaydreams ah ok.
23:53 crtdaydreams wouldn't that be subject to some form of traffic analysis though?
23:54 crtdaydreams and would $peer fetch packet for you a bit like how the NAT Breakout works?
23:54 crtdaydreams or would unpeered station send you file?
23:54 asciilifeform unpeered station can't send you anyffin, crtdaydreams
23:55 asciilifeform plox to read spec.
23:57 asciilifeform re traffic, enemy can see that yer sending/receiving, but not what, or whether useful payloads or rubbish
23:57 asciilifeform if is a serious concern, saturate yer link w/ rubbish.
23:59 crtdaydreams enemy has no biz knowing if sending file or not, and no estimate in size
23:59 asciilifeform you received or sent 1e9 packets, could be anyffin, file, text, rubbish, etc
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