Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-03-25 | 2022-03-27 → ↓
00:00 crtdaydreams hmm
00:00 asciilifeform see again, spec.
00:00 asciilifeform a pest packet aint distinguishable from /dev/random output to anyone but originator & addressee.
00:01 crtdaydreams and pests __may__ send arbitrary rubbish to other peers anyway
00:01 asciilifeform aha
00:01 crtdaydreams so enuff obfuscation in that
00:01 asciilifeform how much, how often, and when -- unspecified
00:01 asciilifeform is matter of taste
00:01 crtdaydreams hm
00:02 asciilifeform someone concerned w/ traffic analysis may want to saturate his link, for instance. while somebody on an expensive (e.g. satellite) link may want to conserve bw. etc
00:02 crtdaydreams and if peers forwarding packets it'd be possible to tell though
00:02 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: peers don't 'forward packets' but messages. packets are unique.
00:03 crtdaydreams i.e. a forwarded req for files, one could see, then approximate any high volume traffic in next n-ms is files
00:03 asciilifeform i.e. a packet (even containing a msg that is to be broadcast later) is only meaningful to the addressee.
00:03 asciilifeform why wouldja 'forward' a req. for files ?
00:03 asciilifeform fileshareism only makes sense b/w direct peers
00:03 crtdaydreams idk, I just realized
00:04 crtdaydreams dumb, dw.
00:04 asciilifeform (nuffin stops a peer from later adding the warez to his own share and then pass to ~his~ l1. is the logical way to propagate it.)
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00:04 crtdaydreams hm.
00:04 crtdaydreams yep. I can see.
00:04 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: i rec to read the spec. then will realize that in fact a station ~only~ speaks to its peers.
00:05 crtdaydreams would be interesting to write script though that __can__ "pass" warez req. across peers thought decrypt/encrypt. would be possible or violate point of pest filesharing?
00:06 crtdaydreams i.e. if don't have philes, make req to peers for file, if peer has it, download to /tmp, send, delete.
00:06 asciilifeform individual station operator could, naturally do this. may end up ostracised as bw hog by peers if it adds up to ungodly bw
00:07 asciilifeform ( rather like how a demented station operator could e.g. rebroadcast direct msgs meant strictly for him, somewhere )
00:07 asciilifeform the protocol does not and cannot prevent dementia in operator
00:08 crtdaydreams yeah. I see. call it taboo if you will then lol.
00:08 crtdaydreams a pest "not-to"
00:08 asciilifeform can e.g. spam yer peers, or whatnot
00:08 asciilifeform until you've none left
00:08 crtdaydreams ofc.
00:09 asciilifeform plenty of ways, in principle, to abuse yer peers. but they'll eventually unplug you
00:09 crtdaydreams I've been thinking of getting a pest running on my server, (w/ Nat Escape to home nw)
00:10 crtdaydreams current stations are blatta and signposts wip cl build, yes?
00:10 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: there are 2 working prototypes, pick 1
00:10 crtdaydreams oh cool.
00:10 asciilifeform thimbronion's blatta & jonsykkel's smalpest
00:11 crtdaydreams nat fw confirmed to work before?
00:12 asciilifeform nfi whether worx in current blatta. haven't tried smalpest of yet
00:13 crtdaydreams that's cool. can be test case if need be.
00:13 asciilifeform in orig. blatta, nat traversal to an un-nat'd peer always worked.
00:13 asciilifeform (2 nat'd peers needed to have at least 1 untrapped peer in common, then can receive broadcasts from 1 anuther)
00:14 crtdaydreams yep.
00:14 asciilifeform in current draft spec, any station can break outta nat if its wot contains at least 1 already-escaped (or entirely un-nat'd) station.
00:16 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: note that filetransferism aint implemented (or even specced) just yet.
00:16 asciilifeform folx still working out the proper algo for it.
00:19 asciilifeform nat breakout algo ftr.
00:25 asciilifeform it aint particularly different from how was done in earlier systems. w/ the important difference that there is no central server (a la skype's), instead any peer who already escaped, will help own peers escape
00:27 crtdaydreams hm
00:28 crtdaydreams ok, thank you. will try and get a running pest station up in next wk~.
00:28 asciilifeform a++
00:28 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: dunhesitate to ask for help here when you get started.
00:29 crtdaydreams I should be fine just reading source.
00:29 crtdaydreams If something in coad doesn't make sense, will def ask.
00:29 asciilifeform rec to read spec 1st.
00:29 * crtdaydreams has already been over spec, will go over it again
00:29 asciilifeform is much shorter than the src, and then src will make over9000x moarsense
00:29 * asciilifeform must bbl
~ 1 hours 28 minutes ~
01:58 thimbronion asciilifeform: blatta still works behind a nat for me
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~ 4 hours 19 minutes ~
06:17 mats https://flipperzero.one
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06:19 mats https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/why-are-europeans-suddenly-so-interested-in-helping-refugees
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~ 33 minutes ~
06:53 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088772 << mats: imho this is the root of the defense. "there has got to be somebody who knows that what my dear friends are doing makes sense" + brunch effect
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06:53 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 20:15:29 mats: i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling
06:54 * mangol met several "who are you lowly student to shit on my selfless friends' prestigious calling?" academics
06:55 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088762 << start with Robert Malone (mRNA) and Kary Mullis (PCR test, nobel prize)
06:55 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 20:10:12 mats: scientists are being fired and defrocked for disputing the efficacy of various vaccines?
06:55 mangol re covid
06:58 mats kary mullis died in 2019
07:01 mats extraordinary claims like the vaccine being more dangerous than they are useful require extraordinary evidence, and the extraordinarily large numbers of people that have received them worldwide requires an extraordinarily large conspiracy to suppress evidence of their effects
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07:02 mats i don't dispute that pharmaceutical companies have done harm, some of which have and others that haven't been documented by ordinary citizens, regulators, and journalists
07:02 mats so show me a body
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07:05 mats still reading about robert malone
07:11 mangol compliments for sticking with it
07:11 mangol sorry, i didn't know the word "defrock" (deprive of the right to exercise the functions of office). i'm not aware of any such cases, though wouldn't be surprised to hear about one
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07:11 mats malone's story is an interesting one, but i'm still seeing a thrift of facts and statistical evidence
07:12 mangol he writes a lot on his substack
07:12 mats and there's plenty of reporting to suggest he feels his work has been marginalised and that others have profited off the backs of research where he believes he is singularly responsible for advancing
07:13 mats i'll read the substack tomorrow
07:13 mangol no comment on his personality - don't know anything about it; wouldn't expect any famous person to be entirely selfless
07:14 mats scientists are approximately never famous
07:14 mangol the main disconnect here is one of method of inquiry -- you ask for specific facts and statistics, which is completely reasonable if you buy into the worldview that establishment institutions (science bureaus, universities, drug comapnies) are trustworthy except in rare cases
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07:16 mangol we often evade or fail to answer your questions, because we believe these institutions lie, tell half-truths, and hide important information habitually. not by any means in most cases, but often enough that when the narrative doesn't match common sense, we're inclined to distrust data
07:16 mats have you heard of the coordination problem?
07:20 mangol a general class of problems where people who don't entirely know or trust each other must figure out how to work together?
07:20 mangol prioner's dilemma, etc.
07:22 mats common sense is seductively useless, virtually all people cannot correctly answer within two orders of magnitude the micromorts associated with ten different common and risky activities
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07:23 mangol you can't avoid common sense. we use it to figure out who to trust
07:23 mats there is common sense and then there is intuition honed by experience and books
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07:24 mangol i fail to see the difference
07:24 mangol (english is not my native language, so maybe missing some nuance)
07:25 mangol babies aren't born with the common sense to avoid scams, for example. even the mundane kind is honed by experience, and by books as soon as you learn to read
07:25 mats i don't trust the common sense of a student without medical training on the nuances of vaccine efficacy
07:27 mangol you're close to the root of the problem -- it's about our WoT
07:28 mangol your stance is entirely reasonable if you believe fraud, deception, and incompetence is a fringe phenomenon in established fields
07:28 mats on the other hand, i trust my friends who have spent thirty years of their life continuously studying medicine
07:28 mats and maybe i'll hazard their annoyance by asking them to parse some of this guy's substack posts about covid
07:29 mangol my field is computing, and if someone doubts a programmer with 30 yrs experience and a masters/PhD doesn't know about some problem, i find that entirely reasonable
07:29 mangol granted that medicine is way older and more pretigious than software
07:29 mats and rigorous
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07:30 mangol depends on the specific area, probably. there's battle-tested stuff and cutting edge stuff in every field
07:31 mangol in computing, analysis of algorithms is rigorous. how to ship working software on a global scale, not so much
07:33 verisimilitude I'm inclined to lower my view of a programmer, based on his extensive experience.
07:42 mats you must know that it is ludicrous to suggest that all data can't be trusted because it is 'establishment'
07:42 mats unless, i guess, it is vouched for by a guy that used to be establishment, and no longer is, because that is seductive
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07:43 mats some endeavors, like medicine, require pyramids, it is how capital and research works
07:44 mats there is a lot of circular logic being applied here
07:44 mats afk
07:47 mangol of course it sounds ludicrous. working as intended. i think very highly of you for entertaining our views to begin with; won't begrudge you no matter how much you diss them.
07:48 mangol "guy that used to be establishment, and no longer is, because that is seductive" -- entirely reasonable suspicion, but these opportunistic diagnoses go both ways
07:49 mangol i have no beef with capitalism or expensive research in general. just our particular establishment
07:51 mangol none of us think establishment data should be discarded wholesale -- just that if you add up the full picture, and it looks kinda weird, you should be suspicious. the covid response, when you add it all up, is the weirdest thing i've ever seen in my life
~ 56 minutes ~
08:48 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089001 << Ever heard of Colossus?
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08:48 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:00:20 mats: extraordinary claims like the vaccine being more dangerous than they are useful require extraordinary evidence, and the extraordinarily large numbers of people that have received them worldwide requires an extraordinarily large conspiracy to suppress evidence of their effects
08:52 crtdaydreams Essentially was the first computer and kept secret for 40 years after end of WW2, over 12000 people kept the secret of it's existence, long after the war had ended and even the commercialisation of computers.
08:53 crtdaydreams It's not too far fetched to say that something specialized like the development of a vaccine would have a magnitude less people directly involved with it's synthesis and production.
08:54 crtdaydreams I would highly recommend looking further into the story of Colossus as it's absolutely riveting. Good recap is that video previously linked and this one
09:03 crtdaydreams Point being that only the researchers and geneticists actually working on the vaccine have to keep the secret. Propaganda fills the gap between ``science'' and the public (which includes most medical professionals; nurses, doctors, etc.)
09:05 crtdaydreams That of course means that there's reasonable doubt as to whether the medical professionals actually ~know~ what's going on in labs. So ultimately it's discretion. Trust USG and USG funded labs, or don't.
09:08 crtdaydreams But if 12000 people could hold a secret for 40~ years amidst a technological revolution, I don't see why a few whitecoats couldn't across a fraction of that time.
~ 3 hours 21 minutes ~
12:29 mangol here's the chip company mentioned: Swedish company showcases microchip that can download COVID-19 passport status, similar PR pieces in many other newspapers
12:33 * mangol expects over9k similar startups in the 2020s decade if things keep on the current track, with more open boasting in press and at conferences
12:35 mangol i.e. not secretive "defense contractors" but something hip and convenient sold to the public like an apple watch
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12:44 mangol i also expect that in most cases, state agencies will find it easier to hack the commercial implants and infect with malware than to design and install their own implants
~ 2 hours 4 minutes ~
14:48 mangol meanwhile, biolab plot thickens
14:50 shinohai Complete with convenient war in the area to keep pesky snoops out.
14:57 mangol someone said the initial ru bombing runs matched up curiously well with assumed biolab sites
14:59 asciilifeform mangol: official ru claim is to have captured the contents of at least 1 iirc. (and if you think about it, nobody (not even usg) is dumb enuff to blow a known plaguehouse)
15:00 asciilifeform as for the docs -- it'll 'unhappen' in reich. if you recall, the entire laptop thing 100% 'unhappened'.
15:01 asciilifeform just like the 8y shelling of donbass & lugansk 'unhappened', the ukr demand for 'croat solution'(tm) there, to enthusiastic applause of nato, etc
15:02 asciilifeform all that'll ever appear in reich press is 'putin's unjustified aggression' etc claptrap. 24/7, 'outta erry clothes iron'.
15:02 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 02:18:53 mats: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/why-are-europeans-suddenly-so-interested-in-helping-refugees
15:03 asciilifeform 'cancelled', if you prefer the reich jargon.
15:06 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089001 << would mats care to elaborate re: how he picked his null hypothesis? i.e. which side is 'extraordinary', and whose 'evidence' is actually evidence ?
15:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:00:20 mats: extraordinary claims like the vaccine being more dangerous than they are useful require extraordinary evidence, and the extraordinarily large numbers of people that have received them worldwide requires an extraordinarily large conspiracy to suppress evidence of their effects
15:07 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089003 << iirc signpost recently linked a list of 'suddenly dead' athletes. lemme guess, 'doesn't count', 'not evidency enuff' cuz not rubber stamped by harvard...
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15:07 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:01:31 mats: so show me a body
15:08 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089013 << exactly
15:08 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:13:59 mangol: the main disconnect here is one of method of inquiry -- you ask for specific facts and statistics, which is completely reasonable if you buy into the worldview that establishment institutions (science bureaus, universities, drug comapnies) are trustworthy except in rare cases
15:10 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089031 << lol
15:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:28:59 mats: and rigorous
15:10 dulapbot (trilema) 2015-04-11 asciilifeform: decimation: iirc they recently abandoned the very concept of 'p-value' in its entirety.
15:11 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089044 << or e.g. manhattan project
15:11 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 04:47:32 crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089001 << Ever heard of Colossus?
15:14 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089067 << cases of athletes suddenly dropping in the field for no reason (or performers on stage) have been trickling on the gab front page for the last year
15:14 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 11:07:03 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089003 << iirc signpost recently linked a list of 'suddenly dead' athletes. lemme guess, 'doesn't count', 'not evidency enuff' cuz not rubber stamped by harvard...
15:14 mangol along with scores of hilarious "totally not heart problem caused by vax" headlines from various newspapers
15:14 mangol but what do these matter
15:15 mangol nb: most of these did not drop dead, but some had to end their careers
15:18 mangol there are over9k different reports pointing in the general direction that most of the vax batches are duds, and some batches are very dangerous
15:19 mangol and that ivermectin & co is "safe and effective" (as they like to say) but ivermectin research was suppressed so they could sell the vax
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15:20 mangol but none of these individual items matter if you buy into the worldview that reich media & science is reliable which would mean you can pick any individual fact and cross-examine it against any other individual fact
15:25 thimbronion It's hard to trust an elite that reigns over an increasingly fat and stupid populace. Just look around.
15:25 asciilifeform thimbronion: that part is a 'success' of the elite. i.e. reliable fulfillment of its plan.
15:26 thimbronion Success for them I guess. Certainly not warranting increased trust from the subjects.
15:26 asciilifeform the mcshitburger conveyor -- well-oiled.
15:27 thimbronion Videos of 1970/80s SoCal are mind-blowing.
15:28 thimbronion foreign country
15:28 asciilifeform even '90s scenes increasingly look 'foreign'
15:31 thimbronion Watched Black Light yesterday. Not a single hot chick in the film.
15:31 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089006 << over9000 nurses & other supporting personnel. sacked for all kindsa hatespeech (e.g. revealing that a 'full' hospital in fact is mostly closed, or empty; revealing details re who dies, and in what actual #s; etc) but why bother to link, none of the links will be to harvard or nyt
15:31 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:10:21 mangol: sorry, i didn't know the word "defrock" (deprive of the right to exercise the functions of office). i'm not aware of any such cases, though wouldn't be surprised to hear about one
15:33 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089018 << insurance actuaries have been peculiarly silent re covidiocy/vax. no prizes for guessing why.
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15:33 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:21:15 mats: common sense is seductively useless, virtually all people cannot correctly answer within two orders of magnitude the micromorts associated with ten different common and risky activities
15:34 asciilifeform ( they rely on reich.stats , for that matter. )
15:35 thimbronion asciilifeform: I asked a youngster what she thought the mortality rate of covid was - she guessed 30%.
15:35 asciilifeform lol!
15:36 asciilifeform ( per -- Official -- stats! -- iirc 30% is factual for 90yos. in nursing home. )
15:36 thimbronion yeah sounds right
15:36 asciilifeform the same ones where turns out they also quit feeding/cleaning the vegetables, 'they'll get die anyway'
15:37 asciilifeform * get it
15:37 thimbronion She works at one of those places. Sees the ambulances every day
15:38 asciilifeform quite a few new yachts made outta these vegetables during covidiocy.
15:38 thimbronion My position has been from the start re: vaccine, if you're old, "wainot" try it.
15:39 asciilifeform a kind of organized version of 'cash dead grandmother's pension check for 3y'
15:41 asciilifeform the same folx who traditionally died of flu -- nao get the swab and 'die of covid' etc
15:43 asciilifeform and it's 3+y nao, and fulla enuff 'unhappenings' (the reich flipflopping on masks, etc) to satisfy anybody who can be satisfied.
15:43 thimbronion one of the funnier categories of mask wearers is the street schizos.
15:44 asciilifeform and afaik usg's director of 'gain of function'(tm) biowar, rather than being hanged at nuremberg, is still in charge of the circus.
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15:45 thimbronion still waiting for congressional hearings on the origin
15:47 thimbronion I would trust the elites more if they came out and admitted the US is no longer a republic
15:48 thimbronion I don't know if that even happened in ancient Rome, however
15:48 thimbronion Senate was there until the end
~ 15 minutes ~
16:04 asciilifeform 'this was all a scam, sfyl, morons' said ~nobody ever
16:12 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089110 << same as "director of AIDS epidemic" back in the day
16:12 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 11:43:18 asciilifeform: and afaik usg's director of 'gain of function'(tm) biowar, rather than being hanged at nuremberg, is still in charge of the circus.
16:13 mangol same guy, that is
16:13 asciilifeform that one still a respectable cash cow to this day
16:14 mangol first exhibit in ivermectin saga
16:14 mangol instructive to read the "fact check" equivalents to all of these items, too
16:15 asciilifeform no shortage of these
16:16 mangol uttar pradesh in india is the other big item re: IVM. covid cases dropped like a lead balloon. ofc, also fact checks for that: "no evidence that dropped due to IVM"
16:17 mangol could have been sun spots instead, etc.
16:18 asciilifeform reich's narrative aint a cleanly-manicured, consistent theatrical set, but fulla obvious holes (the lizards openly prescribing selves 'debunked' treatments, etc) but 'respectable intellectuals' simply expected to carefully epicycle around the holes
16:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 17:03:20 asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform finds fascinating the psychological tension where folx who 'identify as intellectual' are terrified of 'being kicked outta intellectuals' (1st and foremost by 'policeman in own head') and consequently buy into laffable Official nonsense by the megatonne. ( dunno if mats diagnosably fits in this group, but shows worrisome symptoms imho, what w/ linx to papers w/ 'freedom index'(tm) w
16:30 mangol strawberry fields forever
~ 17 minutes ~
16:48 asciilifeform lol
16:59 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
16:59 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $44305.46
17:00 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1088992 << loox entertaining (and with 'mesh radio' possibilities) gadget; seems to be 100% sold out tho
17:00 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 02:16:43 mats: https://flipperzero.one
17:00 * asciilifeform impressed that somebody managed to bake a small run iron during 'errything shortage'
17:05 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088991 << afaik worked from beginning (or at least since thimbronion added the 'ignore' packet erry n sec thing) if peer is unnat'd
17:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 21:57:23 thimbronion: asciilifeform: blatta still works behind a nat for me
17:06 asciilifeform ... meanwhile in shitware lulz.
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~ 29 minutes ~
17:35 mangol zlib - is nothing sacred?
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17:36 mangol feels like one of those incidents where hapless googling leads to x-rated fanfic of cartoon you remember from childhood
17:37 mangol ofc now one can just go to disney & netflix for these defilements
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~
19:01 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089136 Oh no, a C language program has a flaw; well, that's nothing another fix can't solve, and then another and another and another.
19:01 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 13:05:35 asciilifeform: ... meanwhile in shitware lulz.
19:11 verisimilitude Software can easily be written to have vague boundaries handled dynamically, such as Lisp does.
19:12 verisimilitude The approach in which software fails when the clear boundaries are hit is fine, so long as they be proven to be correct.
19:12 verisimilitude The approach of the C language dipshits and others is to use this latter approach, but without any proof, and yet with many of the negative performance characteristics of the former, for debugging purposes.
19:13 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089094 << https://www.thecentersquare.com/indiana/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-up-40-among-people-ages-18-64/article_71473b12-6b1e-11ec-8641-5b2c06725e2c.html
19:13 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 11:32:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089018 << insurance actuaries have been peculiarly silent re covidiocy/vax. no prizes for guessing why.
19:14 signpost ???And what we saw just in third quarter, we???re seeing it continue into fourth quarter, is that death rates are up 40% over what they were pre-pandemic,??? he said.
19:14 signpost ???Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,??? he said. ???So 40% is just unheard of.???
19:15 signpost before anyone gets upset, this isn't proof, just moar signal that there are hypotheses that deserve scrutiny.
19:17 signpost mats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arrokG3wCdE << MD lecturer at Harvard Medical School, discusses the perverse incentives and underhanded practices commonplace in modern American corporate medicine.
19:19 signpost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIOGUYOPAsA << stanford professor of medicine, evenhanded discussion of the terrible handling of the pandemic.
19:21 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-16#1085012 Hey, I just realized I'm following that Chinese philosophy in this.
19:21 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-16 18:57:03 asciilifeform: cn philosophy 'sit by riverside and wait for enemy's corpse to float by' is in action as we speak.
19:21 signpost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_LhPMhkEdw << podcast with CEO of Pfizer, imho illuminating portrait of the kind of psychology present in leadership at such companies. the guy's an even-keeled bureaucrat, not mastermind of evil.
19:22 signpost "this is how the game is played, otherwise there'd be no medicine"
19:22 signpost such companies are machines which search out and elevate these.
19:23 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1088994 << fact is the USA used Visas to suppress the incomes of such scientists to put them under duress, by keeping a constant flow of captive immigrant cheap labor.
19:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 02:52:31 mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088772 << mats: imho this is the root of the defense. "there has got to be somebody who knows that what my dear friends are doing makes sense" + brunch effect
19:23 signpost *visas
19:24 signpost wrong quote, sec
19:24 signpost http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088772
19:24 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-25 20:15:29 mats: i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling
19:26 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089020 << you're fixated on the notion that anyone questioning the economic/political incentives active in american medicine must be uneducated about the science.
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19:26 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:23:00 mats: there is common sense and then there is intuition honed by experience and books
19:26 signpost this is itself a political view, not a scientific one.
19:27 * signpost would rather like the scientists doing real work liberated from the financialized hellholes they slave in for 70k/yr
19:27 signpost that *they* are respectable does not whitewash the history of the companies in which they work.
19:29 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089036 << you certainly have a way of affixing your own head-voices to the counterparty, arguing with that instead of what's presented.
19:29 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:42:07 mats: unless, i guess, it is vouched for by a guy that used to be establishment, and no longer is, because that is seductive
19:29 signpost approximately "libtards, lol" translated to your own symbols.
19:33 signpost so with that said, and hoping you'll absorb some of the links I left above, lemme give the most constructive interpretation of what I think is unsaid in mats' view.
19:34 signpost "The United States is woefully susceptible to the information warfare of adversaries which would like nothing better than to degrade our capacity to act in our own interest under crisis."
19:34 signpost this, if it's a fair rendering, is inarguable fact.
19:43 signpost perhaps one distinguishing feature between ourselves and our adversaries is their ability to act coherently across capabilities.
19:44 signpost it is unlikely a chinese medical bureaucrat will for very long be out of sync with the executive bureaucrats on covid official word.
19:45 signpost this is not to oversimplify, and say there are not factions within the chinese machine, but rather to give a difference of degree in comparison to americans.
19:51 signpost this tower of babel situation on the american side means any of us will be able to find someone within the machine which embodies the narrative one wants to find.
~ 48 minutes ~
20:40 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089163 << it's worse than that; there is no place where one can go to be educated about the science
20:40 bitbot Logged on 2022-03-26 19:26:25 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089020 << you're fixated on the notion that anyone questioning the economic/political incentives active in american medicine must be uneducated about the science.
20:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 03:23:00 mats: there is common sense and then there is intuition honed by experience and books
20:41 mangol all we can do is piece together an incomplete picture of the situation from a cacophony of sources, some prestigious, some "deplorable", some "kooky"
20:43 mangol this is obvious to ~all nerds re: the "social sciences", obvious to deplorables like us re: ~any field that makes money, and obvious to some re: hard sciences like physics where there's not much money and power at stake, mainly fame
20:44 mangol the "trip across the abyss" that people have to make if/when they go from normal worldview to disillusioned, is to abandon the notion that they can receive "truth" about the world from some place by studying earnestly enough
20:45 mangol hipsters called this a "post-truth" world at some point
20:46 mangol but probably failed to catch all the nuances
20:47 mangol take e.g. the question of whether covid and/or the vax is or isn't a deliberate bioweapon. how to know?
20:48 mangol probably leaked from wuhan lab, but was it a natural sample stored there for study, or something man-made derived from such a sample?
20:48 mangol was it leaked intentionally or through incompetence? who knows
20:48 mangol i don't expect to know any of the above for sure until the dust has setteled in about 5 years
20:49 asciilifeform mangol: lol
20:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-09 06:14:47 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050664 << good example of "didn't find out, after all". what did we "find out later" about 9/11? even talking about it 20 years later, sort of makes you a weirdo
20:51 asciilifeform suppose odin himself walked throught the fucking walls at lizard hq, lifted out the incriminating docs, and pastebinned. what will 'we' learn? 'putin fake' etc., reich press will ignore, while throwing in over9000 distracting hangouts, mats will 'believe the Science'(tm), etc.
20:52 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089082 << Avermectin pour on is used on cattle treatment for worms, as a result of rubbing it into the cattle
20:52 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 11:18:30 mangol: and that ivermectin & co is "safe and effective" (as they like to say) but ivermectin research was suppressed so they could sell the vax
20:52 asciilifeform 'wrong letterhead'
20:52 crtdaydreams you get some on your skin. People I directly know have used it for years and not been sick from it.
20:53 crtdaydreams So safe, tick. You'll be worm free that's for sure. Effective against covid? Dunno, haven't looked too far into it.
20:53 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: the wank around ivermectin wasn't about whether 'makes sick'. or even whether improves chances of acute covidism patient. but that all Official investigation re subj was torpedoed from above after trump mentioned taking it
20:54 crtdaydreams Ah. I don't follow news, hadn't before the pandemic, still don't.
20:54 asciilifeform was orig. proposed on entirely logical grounds (iirc being mild immunosuppressant, aim was to tone down the 'cytokine storm' flu-like death spiral in some sufferers)
20:55 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: if utterly nfi re subj, wai comment, lol
20:56 crtdaydreams Er, because one nugget of info pertaining to safety of avermectin (which I happened to know about).
20:56 crtdaydreams If you would rather I don't, fair enough.
21:04 mangol ivermectin provided some of the best covid lulz, the "horse dewormer" discreditation still funny
21:05 mangol some reich approved rags now optimitic about ketamine for treating depression, somehow no screeching about horse tranquilizer
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21:07 mangol asciilifeform: good point re truth, even after 5 years likely to be a cacophony of voices
21:08 mangol jfk is still a jumble of competing theories as well
21:10 mangol seems like a typical stable state for inquiries like this is 2-3 plausible theories, one normie account where "nothing unusual happened, nothing to see here" and a bunch of "martians" speculation that won't die
21:13 verisimilitude I've consumed some Ivermectin lately, at the behest of a hysterical relative; I'm fine.
21:24 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089205 << reich slowboated it (outside of u.s. dod, in the shitholes of which leaflets recruiting guineapigs for ketamine still litter hallways) until pharma scammers were able to find a patentable mod for it. nao pushing the latter.
21:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 17:04:56 mangol: some reich approved rags now optimitic about ketamine for treating depression, somehow no screeching about horse tranquilizer
21:26 asciilifeform who was alive in 1990s, may recall a similar story with 'marinol', a patentability-modded d-9-thc which did ~nothing
21:26 asciilifeform basic script does not change.
21:27 asciilifeform in both cases, also was a component of propping up 'war on drugs'(tm)
21:28 asciilifeform where It Would Be Wrong (tm) if a 'street dope' literally adopted by Official practice
21:29 asciilifeform so gotta randomly cut/add a methyl group or whatnot, issue a favourite son the patent, etc
21:35 verisimilitude Care for a joke?
21:47 mats thats a lot of highlights
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~ 1 hours 11 minutes ~
22:58 verisimilitude I've seen a few retards lately arguing that orthogonal persistance is bad, because then they can restart the machine to ``fix'' an error.
↖ ↖ ↖
22:59 verisimilitude Persistence, that is.
~ 36 minutes ~
23:35 verisimilitude This is interesting: https://fultonsramblings.substack.com/p/why-we-need-lisp-machines
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23:36 verisimilitude He's already aware of Loper-OS.
23:38 verisimilitude Apparently, the author is a teenager.
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23:39 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089219 << sole experience of programming for these is via webturds where restarting is SOP for memory leaks.
23:39 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-26 18:57:30 verisimilitude: I've seen a few retards lately arguing that orthogonal persistance is bad, because then they can restart the machine to ``fix'' an error.
23:41 verisimilitude Expand SOP.
23:41 signpost standard-operating-procedure
23:41 signpost uwsgi for example has settings for number of requests for your pyturd to service before restart.
23:42 signpost or "kill-and-restart when blob-monster engulfs x gb RAM."
23:47 verisimilitude Oh, gross.
23:49 signpost technology is inextricable from culture.
23:49 signpost "It is my right to fail, and the obligation of my environment to unhappen it."
23:52 verisimilitude I've long thought that, if there were a button I could press which would kill every waste of space idiot and other such ``people'', but at the cost of killing myself for using it, well I wouldn't ever be able to make a better contribution to humanity than pressing it.
23:53 signpost christ almighty, altruism from verisimilitude.
23:53 * signpost notes the day
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