Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-06-13 | 2022-06-15 →
00:40 asciilifeform signpost: asciilifeform 100% pro 'whole thing in turnkey iron and for ranchers etc' but with the obv caveats.
00:40 dulapbot Logged on 2020-12-16 13:06:17 asciilifeform: cgra: i ought to make clear that i do not atm have any plans to mass-produce any kind of irons (beyond handful of prototypes for own use.) simply because it -- afaik -- cannot be done economically.
00:40 dulapbot Logged on 2020-02-04 22:26:26 asciilifeform: shinohai: the funniest paradox, is that it is ~impossible to make a conventional '+ev' biz case for sane irons. (given that '100% openly published specs' is intrinsically part of 'sane'.) and so to bake it, yer stuck to work with insane folx. or w/ whatever coins you can muster on own power.
00:40 dulapbot Logged on 2020-08-20 18:16:54 asciilifeform: there simply aint many folx who want these badly enuff to pay what they'd cost.
00:41 signpost oh yeah, not waiting for such a thing to fall into my lap.
00:47 signpost incidentally thought of an amusing low-bandwidth signaling medium for neighborhood scale. seismic thumper.
00:47 * signpost still waiting for his damned geophone gear. oughta arrive soon.
00:56 vex ^neato and thought provoking. can't wait to trail a wire from the uboat
01:04 vex I feel for cdd, time money continuum is a hellofan algo
01:05 signpost yeah, but "I owe daddy" is worse.
01:05 vex I got the same vibe, oh noes now we owe the bank
01:06 * signpost not going to speculate what the situation is, but encourages people to live for themselves. it was the previous generation's job to live for you.
01:06 signpost when you have kids, pay it forward.
01:07 signpost *if
01:07 signpost parents have no business failing to the degree that they rob their descendents.
01:07 signpost no personal experience with this, but it's a sort of civilizational problem at this point.
01:07 vex seems there's a decent landholding involved, different to dubai contacter, just one more year
01:08 * signpost wishes the guy luck resolving it, w/e it may be.
01:10 vex succession planners exist.
01:11 signpost hell my dad's done well, and I hope he burns every cent to the ground having fun til he checks out.
01:12 signpost families that commingle everything suffer.
01:12 vex that's all well and good. go whoring in thailand or whatever
01:12 signpost literally w/e he likes.
01:12 vex but if you're putting in years, it's good for everyone to know where it's going
01:12 signpost distasteful thing when the piggies assemble to squeal for their piece.
01:14 signpost anyway how's life vex
01:14 vex I agree signpost
01:15 vex not bad, time money continuum conundrum exists for all
01:16 vex I was sorry to hear about your Mum too. I didn't say it immediately
01:17 signpost nbd, processed the thing. but thanks.
01:18 phf << i always liked guy ritchie's treatment of subj
01:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 21:05:03 signpost: parents have no business failing to the degree that they rob their descendents.
01:21 signpost I dun get the reference but I'm still bootsandcatsing along with it.
01:22 shinohai << words of wisdom from vex!
01:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 21:09:47 vex: that's all well and good. go whoring in thailand or whatever
01:23 vex the face when she scrapes past the cops
01:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 21:15:54 phf: << i always liked guy ritchie's treatment of subj
01:25 phf signpost: that madonna clip was made by guy ritchie, mostly unrelated to song subj. in it m.'s character steals a car, antagonizes cops, races and just generally being a bad girl, while her presumably alzheimer's mom riding on the front passanger sit. i always thought that's better than "pay for endless medical treatment so that slowly wasting away" etc
01:26 phf ends with the car and passangers wrapping around pole
01:27 signpost ah got it.
01:27 signpost 100% a better ending. or nice and quick on a bad landing in a field.
01:28 signpost the way americans keep their pet grandparents alive in hellish "care" is a sin.
01:29 asciilifeform signpost: mengele has nuffin on reich 'care industry' aha
01:30 asciilifeform << (will omit the oblig. 'summon worm!') but interestingly enuff can actually get coupla 100 baud this way -- geophones work in both dirs.
01:30 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 20:44:58 signpost: incidentally thought of an amusing low-bandwidth signaling medium for neighborhood scale. seismic thumper.
01:30 asciilifeform rather like hydrophone under sea does
01:31 asciilifeform not particularly 'stealth' tho
01:31 asciilifeform see also elephant .
01:31 phf послушайте, ихтиандр! зачем вы выбросили жемчуг?
01:32 asciilifeform heh
01:32 asciilifeform << >>
01:32 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 21:25:38 signpost: 100% a better ending. or nice and quick on a bad landing in a field.
01:32 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-07 17:04:38 asciilifeform: 'it's better than from vodka or from colds!'(tm)(r)(v.vysotsky, 'mountain climber')
01:33 signpost nah not stealth, just fell out as a fun experiment.
01:34 * asciilifeform recalls historical 'signal systems' with cannon shots
01:34 * asciilifeform pictures 'tcp over .22' lol
01:36 signpost no end to the hilariously demented implementations.
01:36 asciilifeform << defo, there's a deadly glue trap there, and no working folx exempt in inflatistan
01:36 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 21:02:20 vex: I feel for cdd, time money continuum is a hellofan algo
01:36 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-25 13:43:36 asciilifeform: 'it’s quite difficult for us to avoid increasing our standard of living (or at least our rate of spending) every time we get a raise' << good % of this is illusion, and what people actually do is ~buying same~ (or moar threadbare) ~after n yrs of inflationism~
01:36 phf specially trained dogs
01:37 * asciilifeform was a little astonished to learn that there are still folx who know how to breed & train mail pigeons
01:38 asciilifeform ( at least, there were in early 2000s , when encountered )
01:38 vex this is my signals horse *face* he's allowed to go anywhere
01:38 vex need the madonna to make the correct face
01:38 asciilifeform lol
01:39 signpost "No sir, I don't like it." (tm) (r) (ren & stimpy)
01:40 phf << til that it comes with a movie, about soviet alpinists (i've not seen it yet, so can't comment, but has subtitles for esl, looks /very/ soviet)
01:40 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-07 17:04:38 asciilifeform: 'it's better than from vodka or from colds!'(tm)(r)(v.vysotsky, 'mountain climber')
01:40 * asciilifeform saw, loong ago
01:40 asciilifeform notbad imho
01:41 asciilifeform 'the only thing better than mountains / is mountains we haven't yet climbed'(tm)(r)(subj)
01:41 phf random scene i clicked on has a very james bondian one of characters flirting shirtless with a doctor lady who's checking up on him in front of a water fall.
01:49 asciilifeform << >> found it btw
01:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 16:26:25 phf: is also curious, does not remember
01:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-31 11:27:18 phf: signpost: do you use relayd?
01:49 phf oh, i have no idea if it can be used for that. or what to use it for at all :D
01:51 asciilifeform a phf, and also found the sticker, lol, in rack (fell off!), 'great lakes gl720e'
01:51 asciilifeform ( tho oddly enuff looking on www they normally have 32, 36, or 37 u. )
01:53 asciilifeform '1500 lb max weight'
01:54 asciilifeform ( can mount e.g. 7 asciilifeform-style ups expanders , say )
01:55 * asciilifeform only has 2, no particular point in stretching beyond time req'd for the genset to revv up (or even to change oil in same)
02:01 vex did you brick in some rackage in the new house asciilifeform?
02:05 vex chimney clinkers ftw
02:08 vex You're a high degree mason if you can dynabolt some rails and it slides in first time everytime
02:12 vex no club required
02:12 phf it's unfortunate that there's on competing illuminati faction like you have free masons which are all brick and mortar, but then you also have free joiners which are more about woodwork. "jesus was a carpenter! -- but the chirch is built stone by stone!" etc.
02:12 phf *no competing
02:21 vex I see your union and raise you a freeman
02:31 vex I like how Vulpes changed his name
02:32 vex all the cubs are vulpez
02:35 vex He's such a lovely man too.what a legacy
02:48 vex should I change my name if I move to pestnet?
02:50 * vex injects a heavy nope
02:50 vex not that it really matters tho. i've glanced at the spec
02:51 vex can I haz music phf?
02:52 phf sorry, i'm in teh equestrian youtube hole
02:53 vex I will also take nz freejumping queens or whatveer you've got
02:54 vex do you know alycia burton?
02:55 vex she doesnt have a saddle also ignores fences
02:57 phf i kind of think free riding is a gimick
02:57 vex
02:59 vex ofc she's selling something, but she's not smoking meth anymore
03:00 vex can't wait till bingo boingo comes back making saddles
03:02 phf vex: i see your gimicky equestrian video and raise hiphop dressage
03:03 * vex goes to look, but you can't say the lady doesn't ignore fencing
03:04 vex I can't compete
03:07 vex beast that can dressage and ignore fences is my goal
03:10 vex also sunrise beach gallops
03:11 vex
03:15 phf vex: that's peak anglo right there
03:18 vex wasp on my knuckles
~ 18 minutes ~
03:37 vex fall off and get right back on wall drilled into me.
03:40 vex I ride texas style
03:40 phf with a cigar and a colt
03:41 vex that too,
03:41 vex usually someoneelks trains the beast
03:45 vex I've fallen off a few
03:46 vex I've landed heavy once or twice
03:47 vex never a helmet, always looking cool
03:52 asciilifeform << a 'free plumbers' seekrit soc. would be lulzy
03:52 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 22:10:07 phf: it's unfortunate that there's on competing illuminati faction like you have free masons which are all brick and mortar, but then you also have free joiners which are more about woodwork. "jesus was a carpenter! -- but the chirch is built stone by stone!" etc.
03:52 vex seen bingoboingo?
03:56 vex
03:57 phf vex: (as they say "wait for it")
04:02 * vex intends to bbl
04:04 phf well, since you're bailing, i'm just going to settle to an old goodie
~ 34 minutes ~
04:38 asciilifeform << if even half-seriously -- wouldn't make rack from bricks, difficult to think of material w/ worse thermal conductivity one could make rack outta
04:38 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 22:06:02 vex: You're a high degree mason if you can dynabolt some rails and it slides in first time everytime
04:39 asciilifeform 'this is server rack, also doubles as pottery kiln and crematorium' lol
04:40 asciilifeform for specialized application ( coupla disks + thermite ) may be worth. even then there are better choices imho
04:41 mats what an epic market rout
04:42 asciilifeform mats: not as spectacular as the 70 -> 30 episode
04:42 asciilifeform (not to mention march of '20)
04:43 asciilifeform then again not necessarily over
04:43 mats the fed shows no sign of blinking yet
04:44 mats and the retreat in markets has been very orderly
04:44 mats definitely not over yet
04:45 asciilifeform aint 'over' while there's still some goxleveragescum left alive sumwhere
04:47 asciilifeform at some pt in each such episode reich finishes hoovering up the 'poorly bolted down' coinz, and then static/slow + again until next pump
04:49 asciilifeform ( see also 'heat engine' . )
04:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021-04-23 13:08:03 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
04:50 * asciilifeform to bed.
04:53 mats the price is now at about 1:1 MVRV
04:58 mats what an amazing time to accumulate
05:02 scoopbot New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: lon nimi
05:09 mats in old news, "China's Atlantic pearl compounds U.S. fears after Solomons setback"
05:09 mats
05:10 mats idiot's explainer to us oil prices
05:12 mats nydig newsletter
~ 46 minutes ~
05:58 verisimilitude I'm in total agreement.
05:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 16:57:00 phf: if i were you, i'd optimize for "what is the least amount of work i can do for max amount of compensation and still live", and then having attained that stable platform move from there, having a significantly opened up opportunity space
06:08 verisimilitude No. As I recall, I was doing these things anyway. I could be wrong. I did basically stumble in here and refuse to leave, in any case, sure.
06:08 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 17:21:19 asciilifeform: iirc verisimilitude also recently read up on ip stack etc., learned ada, as side effect of following thrd
06:09 verisimilitude Now where did I do this, phf?
06:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-13 17:25:46 phf: verisimilitude was by his own admission
~ 2 hours 28 minutes ~
08:38 shinohai tfw France makes *other* nation's armies surrender:
~ 6 hours 4 minutes ~
14:42 phf <<
14:42 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 02:07:14 verisimilitude: Now where did I do this, phf?
14:42 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 15:41:31 verisimilitude: I wasn't going to use the word, but sure, phf.
14:43 phf which was re which was re
14:43 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 15:41:09 phf: verisimilitude: i believe the correct term is hikikomori
14:43 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 15:40:52 verisimilitude: Physically, I'm a hermit, but that's something different.
14:44 phf verisimilitude: but i'm wrong, i didn't actually know what neet means. i thought it was another slang for hiki, but it's more precise than that
14:47 asciilifeform hm afaik 'neet' ('not in education, employment, training') is a redditism which theoretically applies to anyone who aint wage slave, but in practice normally for young folk mooching off relatives, rather than moneybags
14:50 phf i'm not up to date on my entomology
14:55 * asciilifeform looked up when jonsykkel introduced as one
14:55 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-25 13:26:08 jon: nah just a humble NEET loser atm
15:06 asciilifeform << see also e.g.
15:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 01:10:11 mats: nydig newsletter
15:06 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-11 16:01:55 asciilifeform: ^ asciilifeform's point, can call an altcoin 'cryptodollar' or even 'cryptogold' or 'cryptouranium' but this does not somehow guarantee that, e.g., there'll be a finite supply of it, that you can transact how you want, or , most importantly, that you will be able to redeem yours for dollar/gold/uranium when you want to
~ 39 minutes ~
15:46 asciilifeform !q uptime
15:46 dulapbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 363d 12h 41m
~ 24 minutes ~
16:10 shinohai 2 moar days
16:12 mats
16:14 asciilifeform 'Celsius does not explicitly disclose the protocols and strategies it employs to give its users upwards of 20% yield' << lol, MMM
16:14 dulapbot Logged on 2021-05-21 20:26:32 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i'm not. ever heard of MMM?
16:24 mats the 30d volume on tether is 1.83tn
16:24 mats absolutely bonkers velocity when the supply is about 70bn
16:27 asciilifeform mats: there's no limit to what 'velocity' when 'tape painting'
16:34 mats 30d volume of binance usd is at 5tn and its supply is 17.6bn
16:37 asciilifeform mats: of what interest is this #, if it can be made -- via wash trading -- whatever the perp wants it to be ?
16:41 mats no reason to believe that's the case
16:42 asciilifeform evidently mats still working with null hypothesis where shitcoin artists 'innocent until proven guilty' ? lol!
16:42 asciilifeform how many shitcoin-flavoured 'mmm' by nao tanked ? asciilifeform lost count
16:43 mats considering the glacial pace of regular us dollars, this isn't surprising
16:43 asciilifeform in what way 'tether' actually differs from 'luna', 'celsius', etc. ?
16:43 asciilifeform from surface seems like precisely same thing
16:44 verisimilitude That's a stupid question; the names are different, clearly.
16:44 asciilifeform lol
16:45 mats tether appears to take fewer risks with deposits
16:45 mats anyway, usd M1V is about 11 in its best year
16:46 asciilifeform mats: explain this # for folx not in the fandom ?
16:47 mats a single dollar was used 11 times in a year
16:48 * asciilifeform can't picture how anyone could know this to any kinda precision, but suppose stipulate as given. how's it pertain to tetherism ?
16:51 phf mats is a financier, knows his openbsds from freebsds, even though to a unix hater it might all look like unix from outside, presumably identifies by all kinds of secondary characteristics.
16:52 mats lol
16:52 * signpost has no commentary on tether, but figures the US will be insisting "unprecedented!" regarding its mistakes all the way down.
16:52 signpost I always hear some of this when e.g. "MMM" comes up. "why the fuck can't you people learn from other people's mistakes for a change?"
16:55 mats it pertains in that the 30d velocity of a single tether is about 38
16:56 mats
17:06 asciilifeform numerological religions are appealing to many folx, but the trouble with numerology is that it dun actually work
17:08 asciilifeform elementarily, the #s published by perp tell you 0 re when a pyramid will implode ( aside from the degenerate case when it is already imploding and folx running for exits , when becomes blindingly obv. ) -- or would trigger the implosion immed.
17:09 asciilifeform ... nor do the #s published by usg & vassals have any useful fixed relationship, current or predictive, to physical reality
17:10 verisimilitude This sentence has an even number of odd words. I'm supposed to call this coincidence?
17:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 13:04:08 asciilifeform: numerological religions are appealing to many folx, but the trouble with numerology is that it dun actually work
17:10 asciilifeform ( but to expand on this, is a waste of bw, is rather reminiscent of ye olde where folx tried to argue with creationists , lol )
17:11 asciilifeform verisimilitude: there was a notbad numerological calculator on www at one pt, which would list the steps needed to reduce $input to 666
17:11 asciilifeform sadly lost link.
17:12 asciilifeform sumbody oughta write a similar one for 'economic stats'.
17:12 verisimilitude That's hilarious.
17:13 asciilifeform would output sumthing like 'divide today's m1v by cpi from last month times Official unemployment rate...'
17:14 verisimilitude That has a terrible failure case, however.
17:14 verisimilitude ``I'm sorry, but I can't see how to relate this number to 666.''
17:14 asciilifeform verisimilitude: sufficiently rich bag of transforms should getcha to 666 within 1% in reasonable # of steps, i'd suspect
17:15 asciilifeform elementary search problem.
17:16 asciilifeform if you allow numerological ops using names of officials, prolly even easier
17:17 phf asciilifeform: hey, you ever tried solving the problem of establishing a side channel along with your regular ssh connection? i want some way to send commands (e.g. a tcp connection) along with whatever connection i made, but using -R/-L is somehow iffy, because hardcoded port numbers, can't have more than one of the same, etc.
17:17 asciilifeform phf: not tried this iirc
17:17 asciilifeform nfi whether worked in living memory
17:18 asciilifeform ( ordinary ssh tunnel illustrated in e.g. but dunno if solves for phf )
17:19 phf yeah, it's iffy
17:19 asciilifeform phf: if aint a seekrit, what were you trying to bake ?
17:20 phf what i want to be able to do is basically connect to remote, and have a regular shell and an extra hidden channel, where i can send back files or paste buffer or whatever
17:20 * asciilifeform historically used a separate tunnel + netcat for this
17:20 phf yeah..
17:21 asciilifeform 'midnight commander''s built-in 'fish' also worx for many such uses
17:21 phf true
17:21 asciilifeform ( for shoving files back'n'forth quickly )
17:21 phf but for example if i want to open a browser link from remote emacs, have to copy paste
17:21 asciilifeform a makes sense
17:22 phf i'm solving this with a -R 123:localhost:123, with a remote `open` that connects to localhost:123, sends data, on this end a server accepts. but if i for example lose the connection, sometimes have stale 123 already open, can't have more than one connection without some port coordination. it's all kinds of gay
17:23 asciilifeform the 'autossh' thing in earlier link solves the 'it falls down' problem, if somewhat ugly
17:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 13:16:37 asciilifeform: ( ordinary ssh tunnel illustrated in e.g. but dunno if solves for phf )
17:23 phf plan9 solves this™
17:24 * asciilifeform used for 'trb wires' experiment
17:24 asciilifeform seems to handle cleanup of stale sockets correctly
17:24 phf asciilifeform: nah, different issue. if you do a -R 123:localhost:123, port gets open on local and remote. if you drop the connection, remote keeps 123 open for a while before realized that connection is dead. so you have a window where you ssh -R 123... and remote says that the port is already open.
17:25 asciilifeform a hm
17:25 phf maybe autossh attempts to kill previous remotes, i dunno
17:25 phf but i had an idea. i'm going to write a multiplexer!
17:25 * asciilifeform not noticed this problem when used 'autossh' , but may simply be artifact of the connection having been uncommonly stable
17:27 asciilifeform sumbody (possibly even phf) some yrs ago linked to a multiplexer thing which ciphrates an' udp's small gibblets. iirc written by a fella who sat on satellite dish for many yrs
17:27 asciilifeform can't atm find the link tho
17:27 asciilifeform ( signpost might remember )
17:27 asciilifeform a there .
17:27 * asciilifeform not tried
17:28 asciilifeform dunno if easily turned into 'pipe links to emacs' thing phf mentioned, but possibly if turn the right knobs
17:30 * asciilifeform suspects that netcat alone with correct knobs could suffice for 'throw unseekrit string b/w machines' in '1liner'
17:34 phf so here's what plan9 does: all devices are files, mount/bind combo lets you take directory (or multiple directories) and assign them to a end point (e.g. there's no $PATH, instead you bind whatever you need to /bin), namespaces are inhereted by process and finally p9 is networked
17:34 phf so the combo gets you the following
17:35 phf so their "ssh", called "cpu" gives you a shell that runs remote commands, but the connection process arranges the namespace to be partially from the local machine. so like /home/foo is remote /bin is remote, but /dev/console is local, /dev/sound is local, /dev draw is local
17:36 phf so you run a remote program, let's say "jpeg" which renders jpeg files to /dev/draw. `jpeg foo.jpg` it runs on the remote machine and reads remote file, but when it tries to open standard drawing device actually connects to your machine instead
17:37 asciilifeform a, rather like x tunnel but generalized
17:37 asciilifeform neato
17:37 phf generalized, because same principle applays to e.g. sound players, remote process opens remote files but connects to /dev/sound which gets proxied to your local machine
17:38 asciilifeform what if want to play sound on the remote box ? ( are these selectable somehow? )
17:39 phf yeah, you fully control what your "namespace" is. so "everything" is accessible somewhere in the hierarchy. you just arrange the binds how you want
17:39 asciilifeform a++
17:40 * asciilifeform played with 'plan9' 20y ago, but not since, thought 'nifty', sadly went to same place where errything else good and bright goes
17:45 phf there's also no vt (there's a program called vt though to emulate if needed), your console is /dev/cons a bidirectional dumb stream, but you can also open /dev/draw and get canvas of the current window
17:46 asciilifeform notbad. the kinda things that are possible if system was actually ~designed~ rather than shat
17:51 punkman << the guy's that can't prove they even have deposits? the guys admitting a lot of the reserves are chinese paper?
17:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 12:42:41 mats: tether appears to take fewer risks with deposits
17:52 asciilifeform
17:53 punkman I guess a lot of people like them because they've been pumping price for years
17:53 asciilifeform 'errybody' luvvs a pyramid (until day x)
17:54 punkman wasn't bitfinex made by 16 year old at bitcointalk? in the before times
17:54 asciilifeform dun recall, but wouldn't surprise
17:56 asciilifeform the elementary fact that 'pump' inevitably followed by 'dump' at some pt, not detachable, like the opposite poles of magnet aint detachable -- eternally lost on some folx
17:56 phf formal term for "pyramid until day x" is risk management
17:57 asciilifeform there's exactly 1 'risk management algo' that worx on pyramids -- 'stay out'
17:57 asciilifeform ( unless yer the perp, that is, then +ev if yer legs are quick enuff )
17:59 phf asciilifeform: i understand it's a kind of position metaphor, but that's not factually true. risk management is not about 0 risk, it's about ~managing~ risk. can have risk in high values of p, but against high payoff, and despite statistics being the mother of lies, can have a ballpark of exposure, return, etc.
17:59 asciilifeform phf: statistics only worx if you've some kinda usable givens
18:00 phf you have e.g. professional poker players where risk management implies very conserative strategies
18:00 punkman I haven't seen any company/entity publicly admit that it has send billion actual dollars to buy Tether. (not that I've been looking though)
18:00 asciilifeform aha, but only worx if the game is played by rules, rather than with marked cards
18:00 phf but you also have 2007 when risk management was "the p's are very high, but the return/losses are amazing".
18:02 phf asciilifeform: if you recall from shalamov "marked cards" were essential element of prison card game, the trick was to cheat and not get caught, but catch a cheat and call him out, effectively. which is the essential nature of the game.
18:02 asciilifeform aha
18:03 phf in this case point not prison, but rather an environment of clarified game theoretical properties
18:04 phf likewise in finance. i sort of agree with you on points of principle, but i can't fault reality for realitying. it follows that if one were to participate, or analyze, can't reject on the grounds of "unfair"
18:04 * signpost admits there are folks that are great at this civilization-scale "core wars"
18:04 phf hence risk management is, from your principled perspective, "how many times can steal, before caught, how much stand to gain" etc.
18:05 phf and even from that perspective not ever 0, but rather depends on goals and personalities of people involved. for some p=.9 is "so you're saying, i've got a chance"
18:07 asciilifeform phf: if one actually has some kinda data -- can statisticize. if only noise (esp. noise generated by the perp) -- not so much
18:08 asciilifeform signpost: it aint clear to asciilifeform that 'successful financists' are 'good at the core wars' rather than simply socially positioned sufficiently near the spigot
18:08 asciilifeform or that 'good at stealing without being caught' rather than simply 'too wellborn to punish when caught'
18:09 phf asciilifeform: that's like your opinion maan
18:09 phf i mean it's a rhetorical "aint clear", which is some kind of "one wonders", but can also be read as "i have no idea" :p
18:10 * asciilifeform well aware that this is 'religious' pov -- and quite heretical to folx who like to picture that they, too , could 'successful financist' if write just right magick proggy
18:10 * signpost has The Physics of Wall St enqueued to try to make more personally clear.
18:11 signpost but I'm too dumb with too little time allocated to this, so my strategy to date has been "wait until greater powers break things that seem valuable, and buy some"
18:11 phf asciilifeform: that's another hedge, you're a master hedge builder. /i/ don't think i could successfully financist, nor did i imply that by what i'm saying. i believe it or not like to see reality clear even if that clarity shows that i'm not the best of boys.
18:12 asciilifeform signpost: asciilifeform recs a tour of duty consulting at 1 of the various 'corewars shops' , to grasp subj
18:13 asciilifeform is pretty interesting to observe how actually worx
18:15 asciilifeform ( talking to folx in these who spent whole life in subj, also informative, tho doesn't produce 'pics or didnt happen'(tm) that one can then link to folx on the net )
18:16 signpost I'm sure there's all manner of corruption and collusion with the central bank et al.
18:18 phf and that's also the kind of information that business shares with a programmer while standing at the cooler :p
18:18 phf gtfo
18:18 signpost sure, one could consider these things within the arena of play.
18:19 asciilifeform phf: lolnope. tho the basic 'seekrit' aint any kinda seekrit at all -- when the pro gamblers lose a bet, generally cover with nearly-phree credit (which on acct of printolade becomes payable off with future winnings)
18:19 asciilifeform i.e. the thing which actually powers entire reich on all levels
18:20 signpost gonna bow out of this thread, but it does seem to my amateur eye that different banks were making different calls about how 2022 would go at the beginning of the year, and some of them were right.
18:20 asciilifeform signpost: observe that the folx who 'were wrong' are still inbiz
18:20 asciilifeform (and the chairs still have their yachts)
18:21 asciilifeform it aint 'aztec basketball' where loser's head becomes the ball for next round.
18:21 asciilifeform ( occasionally, in 'famous' crashes, somebody is chosen & sacrificed, but not often )
18:22 signpost we agree that the sovereign has no honor, and rewards loyalty above virtue.
18:22 * signpost bbl gents
18:23 asciilifeform picture if you could get 0% loan whenever, with ~no time parameter. could also be 'great financist', and could as easily do it in vegas as in nyse
18:23 phf and i was in the thread for concrete subject, that is the nature of risk management, on account of it being misrepresented. i grew up in soviet union, heard this type of talk plenty in kitchens, still to this day.
18:24 asciilifeform phf: let's see if you agree w/ asciilifeform's game-theoretical model for subj. yer on a slow-moving train, with no windows, and know that at some pt will go off cliff. erry kilometre you get, say, 1000$ dropped in yer pocket.
18:25 asciilifeform what's the mathematically correct 'play' ?
18:25 asciilifeform (or is model not applicable? if so why)
18:25 asciilifeform model for pyramid , that is.
18:26 asciilifeform the machinist in the locomotive -- has a window. he can see cliff, usually (unless drunk)
18:26 phf you can't just keep tweaking your game to make your point, because shows your hand
18:27 asciilifeform phf: asciilifeform had exactly 1 point, but not sure if made clear
18:27 phf which is not to actually participate in a game theoretical analysis (which i can only do rather superficially at this point, it's been decades, anyway), but to make some kind of rambling point about it all being rigged and everyone being a scamer
18:28 asciilifeform sole point was that mathematics will not help if there's nuffin to mathematicize with (and in a 'mmm' there normally aint)
18:28 asciilifeform there's only the choice of whether to walk in or not
18:29 asciilifeform an 'mmm' does not even rise to the level of e.g. american state lotteries, where the odds are printed on the ticket and permit an elementary ev calc
18:32 asciilifeform 'risk calculation' actually worx, as taught in kindergarten, at e.g. horse track -- for so long as the race is run by rules, and the bets actually paid as agreed, rather than e.g. gestapo comes and confiscates the horses and all of the dough
18:32 phf asciilifeform: you've also by the way commited the cardinal sin of game theory, which is also how the likes of bernanke and co get away with whatever they do. you're begging the question, that is choosing a particular game to illustrate a point by establishing an unsupported equivalence.
18:33 asciilifeform phf: asciilifeform willing to listen re why the offered equiv. aint factual
18:33 asciilifeform imho -- factual
18:34 phf asciilifeform: lol, that's not how it works, you have to build an argument for why factual. because "don't know when the train falls" is the core of your position, but it's presented in a game as a given
18:34 asciilifeform afaik no way for pyramid players to know anyffin re where cliff is
18:35 asciilifeform ( excepting those connected with the perp )
18:36 asciilifeform if yer a telepath -- can win. but otherwise ?
18:36 phf these are all just hypotheticals and speculations presented as facts, i don't know how to respond to t hat
18:37 phf one could e.g. make study of pyramids, identify their various inflection points, and then perhaps have a clearer idea, but maybe not. structured instrument pyramids are a lot more structured than "one mavrodi one mmm", can put further constraints on the process.
18:38 phf there's by the way a further point to and why this conversation is unproductive
18:38 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 14:30:35 phf: asciilifeform: you've also by the way commited the cardinal sin of game theory, which is also how the likes of bernanke and co get away with whatever they do. you're begging the question, that is choosing a particular game to illustrate a point by establishing an unsupported equivalence.
18:38 asciilifeform for folx who believe they can infer , from public givens, when a pyramid is to fall -- there is ~inf dough
18:38 asciilifeform 'флаг в руки'
18:39 phf which is that you're trying to prove an argument, rather than make an honest discovery into the subject. you have no skin in game beyond the substance of the argument. if you for example, and by accident or intentionally, had some money running on a pyramid, might be a lot more interested in attempting to present viable models. even if "wake up from coma discovered that all money in mmm" if you were then to pull out, would have +ev, yet
18:39 phf somehow invalid? nothing to learn? no objective reality to it?
18:40 phf and before "man on gallows looks for signs" comment on "viable model", there's a thin line there, but it exists
18:41 asciilifeform phf: not yet been in 'mmm coma' but for instance one time bet 1btc on sdice, won. not played again, because had no reason to think 'i've a winning model!'
18:42 phf you presumably hold btc :>
18:42 asciilifeform believe or not
18:43 phf anyway, i love a good срач as much as the next guy (next guy being signpost), gotta bow out
18:44 asciilifeform ( but (also believe or not) not because 'to moon!' but because is actually useful )
18:44 asciilifeform lolk
18:44 phf i remember old log also at some point becoming a major time sync. kind of hard to match the participating of a guy with +++btc and ++++time :p
18:45 asciilifeform ( apropos oldthrd )
18:45 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 20:11:22 asciilifeform: << this oughta be direct q for mats : what aspects of current-day bitcoin are you 'married' to, in such a way that their demolition would be from your pov 'the end of' it ?
18:45 * asciilifeform sadly only '+time' , and also must bbl
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~
20:27 verisimilitude I agree with asciilifeform.
20:27 verisimilitude I actually would stop, if I were to come across a banker on fire, not to piss on him, but in an attempt to take his wallet before it also burns.
~ 45 minutes ~
21:12 verisimilitude It's good to find comfort.
21:13 phf verisimilitude: he's certainly in good company
21:13 verisimilitude ``Fuck, why does my wrist hurt so much. I thought I was getting better. Oh right, the cat sliced it open; that's a relief.''
21:14 verisimilitude Get it right: He certainly would be in good company.
21:18 phf the grammar of this idiom implies a hypothetical, which is how it's usually used. i'm not speaking idiomatically, stating the fait accompli: as a result of your statement asciilifeform found himself in good company.
21:20 verisimilitude That was my second guess.
21:20 verisimilitude It's unfortunate I misunderstood, then.
21:21 verisimilitude I'd thought we were discussing the hypothetical burning banker.
~ 18 minutes ~
21:39 punkman
21:44 asciilifeform punkman: there's long series of these , 'the Great Cleansing will wipe planet clean of filth at last'. in practice sadly never quite happens
21:46 asciilifeform ( hypothetically could e.g. discover that p==np and you can't have a bitcoin at all, then all the maggots maggoting on top of it could die with it, but not prior )
21:46 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 19:59:07 asciilifeform: << pretty sure we had at least one 'what does it mean to ask whether bitcoin still works?' thread, and not long ago
21:55 punkman
21:59 asciilifeform punkman: that bomb will blow, 'when, not if', likely being saved for after the next (or n-th) pump, i.e. stroke of the piston
21:59 dulapbot Logged on 2021-04-23 13:08:03 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
22:02 mats that comment is exceptionally incoherent
22:03 asciilifeform mats: which ?
22:03 mats the reddit
22:04 asciilifeform mats: seems like iso standard 'soon the fools will return to mother church, good old benjies that, even if printed in unlimited qty, can still buy mcfood and therefore the one troo currency of our 10,000 year reich 4evah'
22:05 mats 'rats will collude to prop up the price' and then ends subsection with 'all turn on each other in scramble for door'
22:05 asciilifeform a habitual reddit smoker prolly has bookmarks of over9000 of these. during justabout erry dump, new crop
22:06 signpost in other fetishes, mudila phone now works. had to get a new sim card and factory reset.
22:06 asciilifeform ( during 'pump', similar but with 'flipped sign bit' -- 'soon erryone will dump worthless old green for $coin, with which didjaknow can even buy cars' etc )
22:06 asciilifeform signpost: didn't work prev.?
22:06 signpost in terms of being a LTE brick I can talk into, nb so far.
22:06 * asciilifeform seems to only recall signpost's report that it worked on uncrating
22:06 mats slow motion celsius implosion is good news
22:06 signpost asciilifeform: for some reason, the SIM I pulled from an iPhone couldn't send texts.
22:06 mats defi is retarded
22:06 asciilifeform signpost: odd
22:07 asciilifeform signpost: iirc some pnojes req. config of 'apn' etc for sms/data/voice separately
22:07 signpost could've been not the SIM, but the factory reset, no idear.
22:08 punkman interesting tweet by biggest Tether holder:
22:08 * asciilifeform wishes could still get old-style copper phone ln
22:08 asciilifeform the 'five nines' kind
22:09 asciilifeform sadly in this shithole they only exist where nuffin else does
22:09 * asciilifeform in new pad, as in old, the copper hangs sadly , chopped at the pole, and in the box on the latter -- bird's nest
~ 20 minutes ~
22:30 verisimilitude I read ``copper'' as meaning ``policeman'' for just a moment.
22:30 verisimilitude I'd be sad also if I were hanged.
22:32 verisimilitude I overheard talk of the ``unplugged phone'' today, signpost. I tried to point out the oxymoronic name and stupid supposed guarantees, to deaf ears.
~ 29 minutes ~
23:02 signpost what the fuck do I care? it's quiet, and does the few things I want.
23:04 phf i'm thinking of setting up a canvas tent outside for summer work, complete with elephant caliber rifle and a pith helmet
23:07 signpost only sensible what with the epidemic of appalachian pachyderm attacks
23:07 phf that could be me!
23:09 phf i already brew tea, this way can have stove, when friends come will refer to them as "m'boy"
23:09 signpost lol
23:09 phf will have a little library consisting purely of the likes of jerome k jerome, conan doyle and kipling
23:10 phf which is the bulk of what i read anyway, if you remove ru
23:10 phf brilliant, i say, wot
23:11 phf << gruesome, savage beasts, but enough of the locals.
23:11 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 19:05:05 signpost: only sensible what with the epidemic of appalachian pachyderm attacks
23:12 signpost bwahaha
23:12 signpost I did most of my "work from home" on the porch here while the weather was nice. made a point to have the camera show as much beautiful weather to the californians living in their boxes as possible.
23:12 signpost was particularly entertaing when their sky was orange atop cowering from the plague.
23:13 signpost if one gotta type, why not type in one's element! (shakes jowls)
23:14 signpost anyway, why care about the phone. it's heidegger's "ready-to-hand" concept. the human mind prepares the disclosed uses of the tool when tool's in hand.
23:14 phf engineering is a base form of employment, but one can't leave it all to babus, they'll make an awful mess of it
23:15 signpost hammer in hand, "everything's a nail" in the subjunctive.
23:15 signpost iphone is therefore the tool from hell.
23:17 phf and yet only in the hands of the civilized sort, when, time and time has this been demonstrated indeed in the most unfortunate, for the englishmen who had the misfortunate to participate, way, given to a savage it turns from a tool for hammering nails into the tool for hammering heads.
23:18 signpost mhm, one has to inspect oneself for how much immersion in savagery seeps into himself, and remember that he an example both of himself and his kind.
23:21 phf indeed not a few of the better sort of men have in the moments of passion, or when reduced to such by circumstances, have turned to savegery of the most despicable kind, which we necessarily must condemn, yet, one certainly must agree that not every sort of kind of man posseses the natural capacity for civilized living.
23:23 phf goodness, i seem to have come in a possession of a lush mustache, since i decided to entertain this line of behavior, fancy a bit a buggery?
23:23 shinohai << if you don't grow a handlebar mustache, and exclaim "By Jove!" when folx are speaking with you, this endeavour will fail.
23:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-14 19:02:31 phf: i'm thinking of setting up a canvas tent outside for summer work, complete with elephant caliber rifle and a pith helmet
23:23 signpost not my cup of tea old chap, but may I introduce you to another
23:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-09 17:42:27 verisimilitude: I could continue on this sexual topic, but it would reveal a deeply unusual nature, so let's not.
← 2022-06-13 | 2022-06-15 →