Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-06-15 | 2022-06-17 → ↓
02:51 asciilifeform billymg: funnily enuff never 1ce had a problem wiring to mp
02:52 asciilifeform ( was doin' it just shortly up to the 'end days' )
02:52 asciilifeform d00d was a++ coin vendor.
02:57 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-15#1006938 << was moar or less that iirc
02:57 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-15 23:26:13 signpost: billymg: you pay for your cult leader's industrial barrels of butt lube.
02:58 asciilifeform fwiw no one ever demanded 'for wat'
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02:59 asciilifeform ( possibly magick # for that , was > x ; nfi )
03:00 * asciilifeform still regularly sends fiatola wires, no one once asked 'why', goxen are factually over9000x ~moar~ fascist than fiatola banks...!
03:05 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-15#1006937 << wat's the ln marked in blue there ?
03:05 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-15 23:25:27 signpost: https://www.tradingview.com/x/fqddUVRi/ << it still does a great job of that on the longest scales, especially if you buy during winter.
~ 10 hours 6 minutes ~
13:11 signpost asciilifeform: some curve I plotted in a chartcrime app inspired by this https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/bitcoin-logarithmic-growth-curve/
~ 44 minutes ~
13:56 shinohai $ticker btc usd
13:56 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $20936.02
~ 50 minutes ~
14:46 signpost come on 19!
~ 15 minutes ~
15:01 billymg http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1006946 << every now and then i send money via wire (to myself) and always get asked (on both ends) what it's for. but i've found i can just say "remodeling" and/or "general expenses" and that's enough for them
15:01 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 02:58:33 asciilifeform: fwiw no one ever demanded 'for wat'
15:03 billymg in my case that's what the money is actually for, but not sure how that would go if trying to buy btc with it
15:04 billymg signpost: with the ongoing celsius implosion we might get even lower
15:04 * billymg previously thought ~22k would be the bottom
15:05 asciilifeform billymg: iirc in march '20 bottom was ~3k
15:05 billymg asciilifeform: from a top of 20k, yes
15:05 asciilifeform ( which asciilifeform guesses is the actual bottom, consisting of 'humans' who bought with actual earned fiatola, after substracting the 'institutional' scum )
15:05 asciilifeform *subtracting
15:06 asciilifeform or, at any rate, was then.
15:07 billymg the celsius implosion, btw, the inevitable end result for anyone who fell for the "btc lending" scam (in any flavor)
15:07 bitbot (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 billymg: the whole "don't sell your btc, borrow against it!" meme felt like such a huge psyop, often promoted by never-sell maxis
15:08 billymg any "yield farming", "staking", "earn in your sleep! (just give us your keys)" variation
15:08 asciilifeform 'gave keys' == 'sold'
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15:08 billymg yup
15:13 * billymg wonders what the bottom is for the nasdaq
15:14 billymg maybe a hair under 9000 would be my guess
15:14 asciilifeform well in e.g. 1929, folx owned paper stocks on actual paper, so at least had value as toilet paper at 'bottom'
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15:14 asciilifeform today not even this
15:14 asciilifeform so perhaps bottom is 0
15:17 signpost amusingly, '29 was on par with a BTC drawdown, ~90%
15:18 billymg asciilifeform: if bottom is 0, what is the value of usd then?
15:18 asciilifeform == sov ruble, on that day
15:19 billymg neat, sounds like fun
15:20 signpost who wanted a boring death, as the perennial thread goes.
~ 35 minutes ~
15:55 shinohai http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1006972 << I mean, where else would toilet paper go?
15:55 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 15:14:45 asciilifeform: well in e.g. 1929, folx owned paper stocks on actual paper, so at least had value as toilet paper at 'bottom'
15:55 shinohai gm #pest
15:55 asciilifeform wb shinohai
16:02 shinohai In other implosions: https://twitter.com/finblox/status/1537414199890296838/photo/1
16:07 signpost sorry I can't get it up again until tether implodes.
16:08 shinohai lol
16:14 awt gm
16:15 asciilifeform wholly unrelatedly, crosspost before gets lost entirely in the lolcoin noise
16:15 awt it's all about the bezzle rn
16:18 awt $ticker btc usd
16:18 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $20876.29
16:18 awt who's gonna get the first < 20k print?
~ 1 hours 32 minutes ~
17:51 asciilifeform print?
17:53 awt asciilifeform: whatever you want to call the price output of busybot
17:53 asciilifeform a
17:53 awt $ticker doge usd
17:54 busybot Current DOGE price in USD: $0.05781
17:54 awt I like to check doge since an acquaintance recently told me he bought $100k of doge.
17:54 asciilifeform lol!
17:55 signpost in which the food crisis is solved by mass redditard suicide.
17:57 asciilifeform hey apparently even thinking folx often come to believe they can 'model' pyramid. so prolly will never run out.
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~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
19:17 asciilifeform billymg: apropos of nuffin, seems like one can't easily link to an /action in yer logotron
19:17 asciilifeform ( the '*' aint clickable )
19:17 billymg asciilifeform: the handle is clickable
19:18 asciilifeform oh nm indeed
19:18 asciilifeform the column shift confusing tho imho
19:18 billymg imo should be the timestamps that are clickable
19:18 billymg now that those are displayed in their own column
19:18 asciilifeform aha
19:18 billymg and is traditionally how it's done elsewhere on the web
19:19 asciilifeform oldthrd asciilifeform was to link, re prev thrd
19:19 bitbot (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: realizes that he has sumthing like a personal 'laws of robotics' for 'when to spend coin' (or rather, when not to) :
19:19 billymg though would have to be both handle and timestamp, since timestamps get hidden below a certain viewport width
19:19 asciilifeform dunno how useful the display of timestamps, esp. given billymg's spiffy 'and then x hrs passed' pheature
19:22 billymg asciilifeform: which is why hidden on smaller viewports
19:22 billymg but on larger viewports, also no need to have mile-wide lines of text, makes for shit readability
19:23 billymg which is why i put e.g. nav into the right column instead of in the header
19:23 billymg (but switches to header on "phone view")
19:26 billymg it's similar to how in printed text books there is typically a generous margin
19:27 billymg there is an ideal target for reading comfort, measured in number of characters per line
~ 19 minutes ~
19:46 asciilifeform billymg: a, see, asciilifeform uses vertical displays exclusively
19:46 asciilifeform hence wai never bothered with these
19:47 asciilifeform ( and given that these displays only available in 9:16, there's moar or less 0 win from horiz. margins on'em )
20:01 billymg asciilifeform: i took that into account too. thought to myself "alf and probably others read on narrower displays, so should be sure to adjust layout accordingly". at 989px the timestamps are hidden and the nav goes to the top, and at 766px the handle and payload columns collapse into one
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20:10 * billymg still sees layouts all over the web where the "desktop" margins are maintained in the "mobile" view, resulting in text columns with 2-3 words per line
20:24 asciilifeform billymg: fwiw even on asciilifeform's vertical display, there's a massive deadspace on the right where (on top of pg) chan list
20:25 billymg asciilifeform: dead space on right while the chan list is on top? not sure i follow
20:25 asciilifeform would make some kinda sense if it were 'frame' and could switch chans from it at any pt along the page, but still gotta scroll to top... so wainot have'em at top of pg like in asciilifeform's
20:25 asciilifeform billymg: the chan list occupies chunk of right hand all the way along the scroll
20:25 billymg when the chan list moves to the top, there shouldn't be any extra margin on the right
20:26 billymg ah, right, that's intentional
20:26 billymg asciilifeform: what's your viewport width, in pixels?
20:26 asciilifeform 2160
20:27 billymg width??
20:27 asciilifeform and in e.g. emacs, asciilifeform uses from 0th pixel to the last.
20:27 asciilifeform width.
20:27 asciilifeform 2160 width, 3840 height .
20:28 billymg asciilifeform: ok, so 2160 actual pixels
20:28 asciilifeform actual pixels
20:28 asciilifeform ( what kind didja think )
20:28 billymg "css pixels" lol
20:29 * asciilifeform not knows how many 'css pixels' it ends up
20:29 billymg people usually run high dpi displays at some ratio, like 1.5x, 2x
20:29 asciilifeform billymg: rly? seems like epic waste
20:29 billymg otherwise everything would require a magnifying glass to read
20:29 asciilifeform why would it, if fonts config'd correctly ?
20:30 asciilifeform i've simply set the dpi in xorg to the correct #
20:30 billymg right, this is your "Xft.dpi"in xorg
20:30 asciilifeform iirc (been a while)
20:30 asciilifeform but mno, wouldn't remotely contemplate bitmap scaling, why the fuck buy a '4k' screen for 2-3k$ then!
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20:30 billymg asciilifeform: what does this website say is your width in "css pixels"? https://www.mydevice.io/
20:31 asciilifeform lessee
20:31 billymg asciilifeform: i believe Xft.dpi is for font dpi
20:31 asciilifeform seems to think: '1079px'
20:31 billymg yup
20:31 asciilifeform (how calculated -- nfi)
20:31 asciilifeform also thinks it's 1920px in height
20:32 billymg i think it's based on when 72dpi was considered the standard
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20:32 asciilifeform right but how it gets these from 2160 etc is mystery to asciilifeform
20:33 billymg 2160/2 = 1080 (1px off, perhaps accounting for border on the window, no idea)
20:33 billymg so you're at 2x
20:33 asciilifeform rright but bitmaps display as expected
20:34 asciilifeform (e.g. 10x10pixel actually shows up as such if screenshat w/ 'gimp' etc)
20:34 asciilifeform and mouse cursor is ~4mm tall
20:35 billymg sounds right
20:35 asciilifeform so where's the 2x come from ?
20:36 * asciilifeform must bbl shortly
20:37 billymg 2x is the thing that makes 4k screen worth buying
20:37 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 20:30:56 asciilifeform: but mno, wouldn't remotely contemplate bitmap scaling, why the fuck buy a '4k' screen for 2-3k$ then!
20:45 * billymg guesses that the output of `xrdb -query | grep dpi` for asciilifeform will be "192"
20:46 billymg "Xft.dpi: 192"
~ 29 minutes ~
21:15 * billymg just had a lox and cream cheese bagel for the first time in 3+ years, homemade bagel too
21:19 billymg anyway, was wrong about the 72dpi standard, was actually 96. and that's where "css pixels" and "2x" comes from
21:19 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 20:32:03 billymg: i think it's based on when 72dpi was considered the standard
21:24 billymg and since (i'm guessing) asciilifeform's Xft.dpi is set to 192, resulting in 1080 "css pixels" of viewport width from his 2160 pixel screen, this puts it about 90px > the breakpoint at which the layout moves the chan nav out of the right margin and into the header -- so yes
21:24 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 20:01:32 billymg: asciilifeform: i took that into account too. thought to myself "alf and probably others read on narrower displays, so should be sure to adjust layout accordingly". at 989px the timestamps are hidden and the nav goes to the top, and at 766px the handle and payload columns collapse into one
21:26 billymg hrm, that got cut off weird: ...so yes, the empty margin would still be there, giving about 90-95 characters per line for the payload column
~ 28 minutes ~
21:54 asciilifeform billymg: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bmg_log_screenshit.png for ref.
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21:57 billymg asciilifeform: yup, pretty much exactly what i was able to recreate here by adjusting my viewport to the same 1080px width you're using
21:57 billymg (only mine not as tall)
21:57 asciilifeform so, possibly see why loox oddly lopsided here
21:58 * asciilifeform doesn't use any palpable margins in emacs or terminals, or in own logotron
22:02 billymg asciilifeform: i thought you kept your code to 80 char per line?
22:02 asciilifeform own code
22:03 asciilifeform most of the time, working on heathen coad tho
22:04 asciilifeform nor does asciilifeform hard-margin human-readable text (e.g. pest spec) when working on such
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22:04 billymg what's the purpose of the 80 char per line limit in your own code?
22:05 billymg why not longer, to "fill the empty space"?
22:05 asciilifeform see e.g.
22:05 asciilifeform ( tldr -- printer )
22:06 asciilifeform printer w/ 80col, and asciilifeform writes on the margins...
22:06 billymg i see
22:06 asciilifeform maybe last 1 alive who does this; nfi
22:06 billymg http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1007086 << i think this might be the answer here
22:06 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 22:04:00 asciilifeform: nor does asciilifeform hard-margin human-readable text (e.g. pest spec) when working on such
22:07 asciilifeform the lcd already feels painfully narrow as it is
22:08 * asciilifeform has 3 of'em, cuz neither 'eizo' nor afaik anyone else makes a 6480x3840 display lol
22:11 asciilifeform ( before anyone suggests '8k tv' -- not ever yet seen a tv that aint utter garbage for static text ; nor, suspect, will reasonable vga card ever support these )
22:12 * asciilifeform is 1 of those people who can see pwm flicker at ~any~ freq. whatsoever, etc
22:18 billymg i actually may have misinterpreted what you meant by "hard margin" when referencing the pest spec
22:18 billymg hard margin means adding returns beyond x chars per line?
22:23 billymg in my mirror of your pest spec, i didn't add any hard line breaks, but i capped the max-width of the text column (for reading comfort)
22:24 billymg you'll find this in printed textbooks as well, and magazines, newspapers, fiction novels, etc.
22:24 billymg text doesn't usually run to the edges, or even as far as the printer is capable of printing
22:25 billymg and in magazines and newspapers text is often broken into columns, because the font is so small that a single column would result in two many characters per line
22:25 billymg too* many
22:35 shinohai 13C05a04n 07b08l03a09t10t11a 02h12a06n13d05l04e 07g08h03e09y 10s11h02i12t 06?13?05?04?07?
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22:37 billymg shinohai: the logs appear to say "no"
22:37 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 22:35:13 shinohai[asciilifeform|signpost]: 13C05a04n 07b08l03a09t10t11a 02h12a06n13d05l04e 07g08h03e09y 10s11h02i12t 06?13?05?04?07?
22:37 billymg err, hrm
22:37 shinohai Bot echoes it back though xD
22:37 billymg yeah, lol, weird
22:38 billymg which means only in the logger www is it not rendered correctly
22:38 billymg shinohai: i'm guessing this is some unicode thing
22:39 shinohai Yeah it's a weechat script got me curious .....
22:48 billymg shinohai: it's odd though because i've seen unicode printed in the logger before
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22:48 bitbot (asciilifeform) 2022-05-29 phf: thread 😂😂😂 no cap fr fr
22:55 billymg uh-oh, did that crash the bot's blatta station
22:55 shinohai the script billymg if curious https://weechat.org/scripts/source/prism.py.html/
22:58 billymg ok, so i won't echo the offending line again, but the line returned by this reference did crash the blatta station the bot was connected to
22:58 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 22:48:39 billymg: shinohai: it's odd though because i've seen unicode printed in the logger before
23:01 billymg !. uptime
23:01 bitbot billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 7m
23:03 billymg awt: does the 9977 version fix the unicode crash?
23:05 billymg awt: does the 9977 version fix the unicode crash? (sorry if dupe)
23:08 shinohai So emojis crashed it lol
23:16 billymg yeah, it was some exception in python: unable to decode as ascii (or something along those lines, i lost it when i restarted the station)
23:19 billymg http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1007078 << i just realized loper-os.org homepage does the same thing. if you scroll down past the end of the sidebar layout becomes "lopsided"
23:19 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 21:54:43 asciilifeform: billymg: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bmg_log_screenshit.png for ref.
23:21 billymg awt: for reference, the error: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=c06w
23:25 billymg asciilifeform: pretty much any website layout with a sidebar is going to look "lopsided" after you scroll past the end of the sidebar (yes, sidebar for logger is very short, but keep in mind was designed when plan was for each user to have his own channel)
23:27 asciilifeform lol uniturd bug again?
23:27 billymg asciilifeform: lol yup
23:28 asciilifeform billymg: indeed, similar on my www, to house the kilometre of sidebar (where else to put it..?)
23:28 billymg asciilifeform: when fully moved to pest i might remove the chan nav altogether
23:29 billymg but i think the bigger point is: right margin > left margin != bad
23:30 billymg i think you're just having some kind of ocd reaction because it's not the same as your logger
23:31 asciilifeform hmm for sumreason thought my client would print the backlog as it getdata's
23:31 asciilifeform apparently not?
23:33 * asciilifeform not begridges billymg his layout, simply describing own preferred flavour where symmetrical if possible and tries to use most of display width
23:33 asciilifeform *begrudges
23:36 asciilifeform possib., but because not same as asciilifeform's anyffin else (other than own www, which doesn't spend much time looking at)
23:37 asciilifeform at any rate, part of the win from having multiple loggers, folx can make what works best for'em
23:38 * asciilifeform intends to stand up pestnet logger when billymg gets around to plugging in the db export thing
23:41 billymg asciilifeform: see here
23:41 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-12 18:04:51 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-08#1006534 << this is live now
23:42 asciilifeform ugh why blatta barfed there ?
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23:42 asciilifeform 'UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf0 in position 62: ordinal not in range(128)' but where was the uniturd ?
23:46 billymg !. uptime
23:46 bitbot billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
23:46 * asciilifeform got the ...[see here] but then crash
23:47 billymg asciilifeform: i suspect old messages being replayed somewhere, my main station has crashed 4 times now
23:47 asciilifeform possib
23:47 asciilifeform odd that they get decoded (attempted?) but not displayed
23:49 * asciilifeform didn't see a single oldmsg printed after getdata'd so far
23:50 billymg since this message didn't make it to the logs: i prefer to optimize text layouts for legibility and reading comfort, not "max chars per line"
23:50 billymg something def clogged somewhere
23:51 asciilifeform billymg: asciilifeform doesn't disagree, simply laid out desk so the center lcd loox like sheet of paper in center vision
23:51 billymg let's see if this crashes the stations again: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1007147
23:51 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-16 23:42:02 asciilifeform: ugh why blatta barfed there ?
23:51 asciilifeform not yet apparently
23:51 asciilifeform ok then crash
23:54 asciilifeform interesting
23:54 shinohai $uptime
23:54 billymg shinohai: perhaps he fixed in 9977 (i haven't updated yet, probably should)
23:55 billymg crawlerbot probably down, i haven't logged into the ec2 box yet to look
23:55 billymg !c uptime
23:56 busybot The bot has been up for: 55 days 7 hours 31 minutes and 57 seconds
23:59 crawlerbot billymg: last reconnect: 4h 48m ago; last restart: 4h 48m ago
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