#asciilifeform | 2022-01-19

00:06

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074280 << to my understanding, NAT penetration is a very common technique used by almost all online video-games, is that right? do you have any recommended network-programming books which explain the mechanics of such?

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00:06

dulapbot

Logged on 2022-01-18 18:46:49 asciilifeform: the 0xfb algo even oughta cut through NATs transparently for that matter.

00:12

00:06	gregory5	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074280 << to my understanding, NAT penetration is a very common technique used by almost all online video-games, is that right? do you have any recommended network-programming books which explain the mechanics of such?
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00:06	dulapbot	Logged on 2022-01-18 18:46:49 asciilifeform: the 0xfb algo even oughta cut through NATs transparently for that matter.
00:12	asciilifeform	gregory5: w/out exaggeration, errything there is to learn from said books is in the linked spec sect.
00:13	asciilifeform	( nat drilling as typically implemented relies on a designated central server. except somehow none of the b00x note that you dun in fact need a central server, can use ~anyone~ who already escaped, if he's able to send you back your ephemeral port # )
00:15	asciilifeform	i.e. if you can reach a pestnet where even 1 station a) not in a nat b) already 'escaped' -- yours can escape
00:19	asciilifeform	all you need is 1 'escaped' peer.
00:24	gregory5	thanks for explaining. (=
		~ 46 minutes ~
01:11	asciilifeform	np
01:13	asciilifeform	see also.
01:17	asciilifeform	there's a moar complicated method, purported to work, but relies on icmpism.
01:18	asciilifeform	(which donotwant )
01:28	shinohai	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074292 << Most I have encountered use some form of "UPnP".
01:28	dulapbot	Logged on 2022-01-18 19:06:03 gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074280 << to my understanding, NAT penetration is a very common technique used by almost all online video-games, is that right? do you have any recommended network-programming books which explain the mechanics of such?
		~ 1 hours 24 minutes ~
02:52	asciilifeform	shinohai: aka 'lemme out plz kthx' lol
02:53	asciilifeform	( and astonishing piece of rube goldberg machinery, famous for ddos amplifier and nearly infinitely deep well of 0day)
02:53	dulapbot	(trilema) 2017-03-14 asciilifeform: Framedragger: in the old #bitcoin-assets days, there was a bot, that idled under (afaik still unknown) names, and would target ddostron (used vulnerable konsoomer router 'upnp' for udp amplification) at anyone who logged in without using fleanode's 'cloak' feature (i.e. had visible ip).
02:53	dulapbot	(trilema) 2016-09-07 asciilifeform: (upnp) 'There is a heap buffer overflow vulnerability in the create_url_list function in upnp/src/gena/gena_device.c. I first discovered this vulnerability when working with version 1.6.19 and have confirmed that it also exists in the latest code on the master branch.'
02:54	asciilifeform	( the 'adult' variant of 'lemme out' is actually digging in yer nat config and setting up port fwding etc. which is what asciilifeform did to make own desk pestron go. but it's a rather annoying chore, and wouldn't work if yer on e.g. gsm modem or other lamertron where often built-in nat 'for yer own good')
02:55	asciilifeform	classical example of the latter incl. e.g. 'tethering' via pnoje
02:56	asciilifeform	... fortunately none of this is actually needed, erry nat can be tricked into 'letting out'.
		~ 35 minutes ~
03:31	verisimilitude	So, I believe I've noticed a flaw in software relating to this IRC. May I attempt to exploit this for amusement, asciilifeform?
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03:36	verisimilitude	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074263 Consider using a queue in Lisp, as an example, jonsykkel, one that can hold arbitrary objects, not mere octets.
03:36	dulapbot	Logged on 2022-01-18 17:02:02 jonsykkel: maybe pipe sux, idk, havnt thought about it enuf. but is fastest way i know of to make computer do x, in the restricted domain of problems that can be solved with program human centipedes. maybe its possible to solve this restriction by generalizing the concept properly. doing serial (y (x)) in lisp is not analogous to setting up a parallel human centipede operation x \| y
03:39	verisimilitude	People argue octets representing characters are universal. Bits are more universal. As I've written, being universal isn't equivalent to being good for use.
03:48	verisimilitude	Regarding a sane computer with an FG, it would be interesting to use volatile RAM to cache the FG output, up to some limit, so that it may temporarily be used at a greater rate than it can be produced. None of this would, or should, be backed up to disk, so there wouldn't be any issue. The only issue is it may result in a system not recovering from power failure as quickly as a lightbulb, were it needing heavy entropy.
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03:50	verisimilitude	That may or may not be useful; I don't yet know.
		~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
05:16	signpost	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-16#1073491 << gave it a crank; the dulap tar lacks a gnat.
05:16	dulapbot	Logged on 2022-01-16 21:40:28 asciilifeform: signpost: whole thing sounds a++ nifty; would be a+++ nifty if could bootstrap it from dulap-gentoo (iirc last time asciilifeform tried, no liftoff, needed concretely a debian of some kind)
05:17	signpost	looks like it will otherwise work. recommend a gnat binwad for this purpose?
05:17	signpost	this is a reason I started with `debootstrap` plus a wad of debs.
		~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
06:35	signpost	oh, duh http://dulap.xyz/ada/gnat-gpl-2016-x86_64-linux-bin.tar.gz
		~ 8 hours 38 minutes ~