00:40 |
vex |
ever interacted with the guy shinohai? |
00:41 |
shinohai |
Nah, I only like sewer rats I can troll. |
00:43 |
vex |
why not him? |
00:43 |
signpost |
in which we learn vex himself is shitoshi |
00:44 |
vex |
lol |
00:44 |
shinohai |
Go ahead vex, sign block 9 |
00:44 |
vex |
someone stole the privkeys |
00:45 |
shinohai |
Goddamned wifi pineapples |
00:45 |
vex |
i'm suing every last one of you motherfuckers |
00:47 |
vex |
I don't reckon he gets much fanmail, but is likely ammnable to it |
00:47 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101039 << he's also dedicated lately to claiming that all copies of the blockchain are illegal since "no one connected directly to him and got permission to use". |
00:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-10 19:35:59 billymg: shinohai: i'm impressed he's still at it, that's real dedication |
00:48 |
shinohai |
vex: surprisingly he has a few hundred troo believers |
00:51 |
vex |
I'd like to have a look at the coingeek budget |
00:52 |
vex |
can you get on the payroll? |
00:53 |
shinohai |
Doubtful, Ayre knows who I am - has had me blocked on twatter for some time. |
00:54 |
shinohai |
Guess he didn't like Qntra articles with Hoaxtoshi in 'em. |
00:59 |
phf |
vex was satoshi all along, just sitting in a lawn chair in the badlands, drinking a pint, watching sunset "oy mate let me tell you what life's all about" |
00:59 |
vex |
right, now this hoaxtoshi comes along, giving "vexatious" a bad name |
01:07 |
vex |
I'd actually like to have a beer with the guy |
01:16 |
vex |
just to see how much of a nutjob he is |
01:19 |
whaack |
at my MIT history of finance class lecture the professor stated that... "Satoshi revealed himself, his name is SCW" with a small footnote that there is a plausible conspiracy theory it is not actually him |
01:20 |
whaack |
he is so dedicated that people who pay no attention to btc can easily fall for it , he puts so much absurd effort into it that it is hard for a normie to comprehend how someone could live like that |
01:23 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: recall how reich activated just about erry single asset in the 'tech' blabbersphere to parrot the 'wright is shitoshi!' thing |
01:23 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-08-17 asciilifeform: 'it never happened, and, oh, incidentally, hanno boeck! and hey craigwright is satoshi, and hey, big blox! and it never happened.' |
01:23 |
signpost |
MIT never taught lisp either. |
| |
↖ |
01:24 |
asciilifeform |
( or how d00d was, supposedly, convicted of xyz and fined 1e8$ or whatnot in au but still 'somehow' loaded enuff to bankroll lawsuits etc ) |
01:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-04-11 14:33:08 asciilifeform: fwiw in asciilifeform's cosmography, a sublizard is a 'human' who directly executes orders from lizard, while exposed to 'humans' in daily context |
01:24 |
signpost |
yeah, epstein appears to have been another. |
01:24 |
vex |
wright did move his whole house to london days before the raid. |
01:25 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101065 << not since abolition of 'sicp' at any rate |
| |
↖ |
01:25 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-10 21:21:56 signpost: MIT never taught lisp either. |
01:25 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-02-23 phf: sussman was there though, when mit switched from sicp to python for their intro programming course, and he defended that decision with his remarks at ILC https://web.archive.org/web/20090327115612/http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03/24/why-mit-now-uses-python-instead-of-scheme-for-its-undergraduate-cs-program |
01:25 |
asciilifeform |
vex: assange also to london. 'somehow' didn't help, lol |
01:27 |
vex |
mhm, assange had the clothes on his back |
01:28 |
asciilifeform |
imho hilarious just how easy it is to spot reich assets -- the folx who echo $partyline entirely in unison, on whatever topic of the day, have seemingly bottomless bags of dough despite doing 0 actual biz, etc |
01:29 |
asciilifeform |
( e.g. hearn, boeck, in unison, on one day 'phuctor is bogus, move along', next week 'wright is shitoshi', then 'bigblox nao!', etc ) |
01:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-04 11:16:20 asciilifeform: shinohai: i wouldn't be so sure there are 'troo believers' at all -- wright had an extensive apparatus of usg shills pushing his nonsense (recall hearn, boeck, et al) |
01:38 |
asciilifeform |
( related lul ) |
01:38 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-01-23 asciilifeform: or why not demand bottomless bank account ? |
01:38 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-01-23 asciilifeform: i remember reading as a kid, about some south american dictator who gave his phriendz such a thing, and being horrified |
01:38 |
asciilifeform |
... but is precisely how it worx in the current reich. |
01:40 |
asciilifeform |
lizards -- connected directly to printer,brrr; sublizards -- can run outta dough, but pick up phone, get moar (for so long as playing ball) |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
01:48 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVPxd2sPZUs |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
02:06 |
vex |
also bangles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0VfqtIK_A .dat hair |
02:12 |
vex |
are chicks still rocking the hairspray in Moscow phf? I love that |
02:15 |
phf |
rich hearing about slave mills from a minstrel. i like how his wikipedia aritcle doesn't have "early life" section, but his moms was cindy breakspeare a canadian "miss world" who married a senator after bob marley's death, ffs. |
02:17 |
phf |
vex: nah, that culture is dead, moscow is as globohomo as anywhere. |
| |
~ 44 minutes ~ |
03:02 |
phf |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101083 << was trying to figure who's the peak 80s hair spray cool, decided to go with Anja Huwe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXgn-PWBLAs |
| |
↖ |
03:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-10 21:46:23 vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVPxd2sPZUs |
03:02 |
phf |
could've been debbie harry, if she wasn't such a basic bitch |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
03:18 |
phf |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-05#1100186 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TJjFEGNKlk |
03:18 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-05 13:05:32 asciilifeform: eh it aint as if there's some kinda hurry. let fella fix his tractor, feed horse, etc lol |
| |
~ 40 minutes ~ |
03:59 |
vex |
I'm glad you're around phf |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
04:15 |
vex |
now turn over the documents. |
04:25 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGU_4-5RaxU |
04:26 |
vex |
if you and alfie sit down over vodka, I might need to be there |
04:26 |
phf |
there's a better version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12w5wykucgk |
04:27 |
* |
vex sets the shit to 11 |
04:30 |
vex |
woosh |
04:31 |
phf |
it's a spinal tap reference? i don't get it beyond that |
04:32 |
vex |
someone irl said it once. i dunno |
04:32 |
phf |
also my poison is port wine |
04:32 |
phf |
i don't think asciilifeform drinks :o |
04:32 |
vex |
excellent. seems to fit, like blondies silk cameltoe |
04:32 |
vex |
alf drinks |
04:34 |
phf |
d.h. is a babe, but then also every time i see her my first thought is that it's basically impossible to fuck on cocaine |
04:34 |
vex |
what's her big song? |
04:36 |
phf |
probably heart of glass? i was at giorgio moroder concert in moscow and he played all his hits, but from blondie he played heart of glass. i'm pretty sure he wrote most of her stuff |
04:37 |
vex |
who wrote who is a big thing |
04:38 |
phf |
moroder wrote the 80s, the entirety of it in fact. i mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMADp-FtCYo |
04:42 |
vex |
track |
04:43 |
* |
vex nods in neverending agreeance |
04:45 |
vex |
hopefullty signpost finds a thumbeared copy to read to the next gen |
04:46 |
phf |
damn |
04:46 |
vex |
ikr |
04:46 |
vex |
I think he knows it's respect |
04:49 |
vex |
when artax... i'm already |
04:53 |
signpost |
I'll take triumphant 80s electro any day. |
04:53 |
vex |
awesome |
04:55 |
vex |
perhaps it doesn't get better than that |
04:55 |
phf |
peak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfZ3IPkAOY |
04:55 |
signpost |
happened at peak empire and peak cocaine eh? |
04:55 |
signpost |
probably doesn't get better |
04:56 |
phf |
i like that the word "peak" spontaneously emerged |
04:56 |
vex |
peak everything |
04:56 |
signpost |
yeah, sometimes I think the meatputer's smarter than it appears. |
04:56 |
signpost |
just entirely other goals than individual. |
04:58 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101088 << relately, had a girlfriend in the 00s that looked just like this chick, down to the cig |
04:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-10 23:00:25 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101083 << was trying to figure who's the peak 80s hair spray cool, decided to go with Anja Huwe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXgn-PWBLAs |
04:58 |
phf |
man, dat sig, dat sig |
04:59 |
signpost |
got pregnant (with somebody else, later), transformed into ultra-mom on a dime. it was hilarious, and on some level reassuring. |
04:59 |
phf |
that's why there's 27 club |
05:00 |
signpost |
haha, gotta bail before nature has its way, yeah. |
05:07 |
phf |
but also like, doesn't have to be this way, i know a handful of people who were cool back in their time, they just sort of retreated, without surrendering. like in this track there's a backup dancer girl, you'll see her i don't have to point her out, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b2T8K2D-ps i had a crush on her in '95? or whatever. her name is tamzin haughton and funny story i met her at a party in 2008 or so, and she was still cool |
05:07 |
phf |
af, despite being significantly older |
05:09 |
signpost |
yeah, I mean to say that in the case of this ex, her vegan punk party thing looked headed for a ditch. |
05:09 |
signpost |
turned out, entirely viable |
05:09 |
signpost |
still pretty much the same chick, but with the life factory calling more shots than before. |
05:09 |
vex |
i fell in with a 12 yo horserider when I was 8 |
05:10 |
mats |
horse girls are weird |
05:10 |
vex |
I fell off hard. apparently I was super brave af |
05:10 |
phf |
vex: here's the soundtrack for my horsegirl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS088Opj9o0 |
05:11 |
phf |
her uncle owned a (small) movie theater in moscow, and that's where i saw the matrix on big screen for the first time. in retrospect i treated her cruely... |
05:11 |
mats |
the last horse girl i met transitioned into a man |
05:11 |
vex |
lol@mats |
05:11 |
phf |
mats: … |
05:11 |
mats |
true story |
05:12 |
vex |
we know |
05:12 |
signpost |
dunno if that one generalizes, lol |
05:12 |
vex |
you haven't ridden till you'vew fallen orf |
05:13 |
phf |
vex: akshuaaaally! |
05:13 |
mats |
does a man wear a cup when he rides a horse |
05:13 |
vex |
I banged my should up hardcore |
05:13 |
vex |
no |
05:13 |
vex |
you fall off and hit your rock on a head |
05:14 |
vex |
then an older girl looks after you |
05:14 |
phf |
man of culture i see |
05:14 |
vex |
it doesn't hurt, but yeAH |
05:14 |
mats |
horsing around has for me always been one of those things white people do that was out of reach |
05:15 |
mats |
always had been* like boating in nh or the hamptons |
05:15 |
mats |
not to racialize everything but thats how it felt |
05:16 |
vex |
mats, you can ride polo if you want |
05:16 |
phf |
mats: boating in hamptons is something bhrahimnic indians do these days |
05:18 |
mats |
indians being promoted to model minority status in recent us history is a source of amusement for me personally |
05:19 |
signpost |
hey, italians and irish got promoted all the way to white |
05:19 |
signpost |
there's hope |
05:19 |
mats |
and something of a source of envy also, indians who don't even speak the same language have the nationalist energy to cooperate in us corps |
05:20 |
mats |
i haven't really seen that kind of national or ethnic solidarity among other asian americans in the workplace |
05:21 |
phf |
mats: on the other hand don't worry, indians doing boats doesn't elevate indians, it simple makes boating declase. i know that, because despite being a snow nigger, i pass, being of class. |
| |
↖ |
05:21 |
mats |
lol |
05:22 |
vex |
best chink in the game old mats |
05:23 |
phf |
there's brief confusion about the whole "indian ceo" amongst the people of status, but it's not lasting, and the opinion is mostly formed. |
05:23 |
vex |
who dat? |
05:23 |
mats |
nadella |
05:23 |
signpost |
everybody forgets poor sundar |
05:24 |
phf |
lol, nadella specifically |
05:24 |
vex |
again, who dat? |
05:24 |
phf |
ms ceo |
05:24 |
vex |
what's the game? |
05:25 |
phf |
time |
05:25 |
vex |
ah |
05:25 |
vex |
heavy on the nasdaq, old ms |
05:25 |
phf |
wealth has more time, but also slower reaction time, because time. tech is an outlier, but brief period |
05:26 |
mats |
i've recently had unfortunate opportunity to interact with class |
05:26 |
signpost |
re: indians the smart ones left just like everybody else in my brief tour. |
05:26 |
signpost |
the megacorps have all succumbed to bureaucracy, and it's just current fashion that the bureaucracies be led by them. |
05:26 |
signpost |
later black woman of color or whatever. |
05:26 |
phf |
signpost: lol, left where? mp had a very solid point "you're an engineer, going to X now instead?" |
| |
↖ |
05:27 |
signpost |
everyone I respected left; race was not an indicator |
05:27 |
signpost |
phf: I was at goog for a while |
05:27 |
vex |
we know |
05:27 |
phf |
i didn't know :o |
05:27 |
vex |
I guessed? |
05:27 |
mats |
lots of small talk about montana/utah/wyoming, horsing, yellowstone, boats, flying to disneyworld for a weekend jaunt, their tesla suv, the tragedy of their six year old's favourite food being chilean seabass |
| |
↖ |
05:28 |
mats |
i think i have enough material for a solid ten standup but nobody would know what i'm talking about |
05:28 |
vex |
tru dat |
05:28 |
signpost |
phf: had my fill, moved on. they bought my thing. |
05:29 |
phf |
signpost: congrats :) |
05:29 |
signpost |
ty |
05:29 |
vex |
mats. i'll show yoU how to ride a horse |
05:29 |
vex |
fast. uphill |
05:29 |
mats |
no ty |
05:29 |
vex |
rair cop |
05:30 |
vex |
fair |
05:30 |
mats |
i kind of want an electric atv though |
05:31 |
phf |
mats: i think that maybe these kinds of groups need to be observed over time, rather than at slice. because they look comedic at slice, and then overtime, they somehow subsume, and nobody could've expected !11 |
05:31 |
mats |
go places cops can't follow, bury bodies in places cars can't go, seekrit rendezvous with squirrels |
05:32 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpuYtgkP_A |
05:36 |
mats |
and when ukraine comes up, its 'i just cant believe putin is crazy enough to invade' and then the same dumb rote references to increasingly larger conference tables |
05:36 |
phf |
mats: atv is for old redneck boomers, get a non-road legal bike. i just got one, and it's great gas. someone in wv modded a suzuki cafe racer for mud racing.. |
05:36 |
vex |
^tru dat |
05:37 |
mats |
i guess i could always chop up the body and fit the pieces in a duffel bag |
05:37 |
mats |
then wear the bag |
05:37 |
signpost |
mats: they're trying to keep you from ascending to white. don't listen. |
05:37 |
verisimilitude |
I happened upon the word CARNIFEX in my copy of the OLD recently. |
05:38 |
mats |
i just thought the atv would be great for hauling meat |
05:38 |
verisimilitude |
I first knew it as a forum name, but hadn't thought to associate greater meaning to it then. |
05:38 |
verisimilitude |
It means ``executioner''. |
05:39 |
phf |
shit i would never want to restrict somebody's path for ascendance. i can be significantly flamboyant in my rebelion against whatever white culture i'm int, because … |
05:40 |
phf |
if you want to /participate/ than atvs are definitely the way to go, but, practically speaking, inferior to offroading motorcycles if you're fit |
05:41 |
verisimilitude |
I can spend all day obsessing over Latin. |
05:41 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqy-fCf6Ymg |
05:42 |
verisimilitude |
Once, I had jury duty, and everyone there was bored, or stealing glances at a phone, but I sat there, just thinking about machine code. |
05:42 |
mats |
amazing |
05:42 |
verisimilitude |
When it came time to judge me for suitability, only I could answer their questions to show I'd been paying attention. |
05:42 |
verisimilitude |
I wasn't selected, because I admitted to hating football. |
| |
↖ |
05:42 |
signpost |
subj of mats.people.white things, I just got a new AR |
05:42 |
mats |
and then everyone clapped |
05:43 |
verisimilitude |
No, this really happened. |
05:43 |
mats |
we know |
05:43 |
vex |
verisimilitude, can have a klx 150, fully worked |
05:43 |
verisimilitude |
Fight me, mats. |
05:43 |
vex |
don't fight mats |
05:43 |
vex |
you'll get ded |
05:43 |
verisimilitude |
I'll eat thy liver. |
05:43 |
vex |
no |
05:43 |
signpost |
if we start having sperg cage fights I'll need whoever to bring back a betting site. |
05:44 |
mats |
signpost: fun, did you rice it yet |
05:44 |
phf |
i'm missing something, because i have some participants of this chat on ignore |
05:44 |
vex |
nevermind |
05:44 |
signpost |
mats: nah, no shit bolted to side yet |
05:45 |
phf |
signpost: what kind of ar? |
05:45 |
signpost |
got a daniel defense ddm4v7 |
| |
↖ |
05:46 |
mats |
do you like the foregrip? |
05:46 |
signpost |
seems solid, yeah |
05:47 |
signpost |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gol9lRqL7qo << while we're youtubing, old guy having a marvelous time ploinking with the thing |
05:48 |
phf |
signpost: it's semiauto, or you waited yr+ for auto? |
| |
↖ |
05:48 |
signpost |
nah, got the semi |
05:48 |
phf |
kk |
05:48 |
phf |
jeff cooper |
05:49 |
phf |
just going to mention him in the log, readers are welcome to pursue further, but he's peak man |
05:49 |
mats |
some people don't like the foregrip because it can catch on a vest or pack |
05:51 |
phf |
mats: it seems entirely tacticool, but presumably you can just unscrew it? |
05:53 |
signpost |
yeah, I see that complaint. |
05:53 |
mats |
i think so |
05:54 |
signpost |
it does come off; not sure whether it's easy to put a different rail on. |
05:55 |
mats |
another toy i've been eyeing is a 640x480 atn thermal monocular |
| |
↖ |
05:56 |
mats |
https://www.atncorp.com/thermal-monocular-ots-4t-640-1-10x |
05:57 |
mats |
the ultimate tacticool |
05:57 |
mats |
'we own the night' etc |
05:58 |
signpost |
pretty cool |
05:58 |
* |
signpost figured leveling up with a rifle would be a useful skill in dying empire. |
05:58 |
signpost |
no delusions of grandeur, just figure there might be a day when carnies start burning neighborhoods |
05:59 |
phf |
signpost: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Rifle-Jeff-Cooper/dp/1581605927 |
| |
↖ |
05:59 |
signpost |
ty, I'll read it. |
06:00 |
phf |
it sets the scope, so to speak |
06:03 |
signpost |
gonna hit the hay, night all |
06:03 |
mats |
gn |
06:03 |
phf |
laters |
06:03 |
mats |
also afk |
06:05 |
vex |
me too |
06:18 |
phf |
but we never moved on to the 90s! |
06:18 |
vex |
careful |
06:18 |
vex |
listening in |
06:18 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSkboTTTmpg |
06:24 |
vex |
I'll bash your skull in for $8.50 |
06:25 |
vex |
if we haven't frightened notoshi; I'll eat my haT |
06:27 |
vex |
we get two games shoe shire hot dogs fries and a coke |
06:27 |
vex |
fuck you cunt. i'm coming atchya liek cleopatra |
06:28 |
phf |
8.50? that seems rather cheap, i can last longer in a rink |
06:28 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fz85FE0KtQ |
06:28 |
vex |
it's like 19.50 now |
06:30 |
phf |
no no i'm a russian 90s kid, karate, sambo, kung fu and then in the last few years mma. i can at least last an $80 worth of a match |
06:30 |
vex |
noone wants a hotdog nayway |
06:32 |
vex |
ever bin to london? |
06:33 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWfZjV4i2Nk |
06:34 |
vex |
so work |
06:35 |
phf |
nah, high school exchange student |
06:35 |
vex |
oh dear |
06:38 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckMvj1piK58 |
06:39 |
vex |
what a goaitch? |
06:39 |
vex |
aitch? |
06:40 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GlFZRXBQyg |
06:40 |
vex |
get the bus cunt |
06:43 |
phf |
tbf manchester hiphop culture is like early 2000s, in 96 it was all techno |
06:45 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6FVk2k4qsM |
06:46 |
phf |
the whole dizzie rascal thing is after my time |
06:50 |
phf |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnT58cIJSpw |
06:57 |
phf |
on the other hand, let's not go to the camelot^Wthe 90s, it's a silly place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbB3iGRHtqA |
07:07 |
phf |
yet on the other hand here's charlotte de witte's remix of age of love https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVvcTIGy40 … |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
07:38 |
phf |
since y'all bailed i had to make this trip by myself, but i finally found it. behold, the 90s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrLequ6dUdM |
| |
~ 1 hours 32 minutes ~ |
09:10 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101264 << have been reading since you first recommended. up to chapter 6 on trajectory. excellent reading so far. I don't shoot but this books really making me want to start |
09:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:57:31 phf: signpost: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Rifle-Jeff-Cooper/dp/1581605927 |
09:11 |
crtdaydreams |
I know it's a short book, I should really finish it. been reading it in amongst other things. I'm never reading <3 books at a time |
09:15 |
crtdaydreams |
I'm also not really inclined towards firearms. Then again, the road between being peaceful and harmless goes a mile. |
09:21 |
crtdaydreams |
technically 90's by year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6120QOlsfU |
09:24 |
crtdaydreams |
vex: it's pretty fuckin' wet here |
09:31 |
crtdaydreams |
we were all huddled in the workshop today, everyone passing around grinders and welding helmets |
09:31 |
crtdaydreams |
pretty squishy, half a dozen different jobs all going on at once |
| |
~ 5 hours 11 minutes ~ |
14:43 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
14:43 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $31567.8 |
14:47 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101169 << lol! congrats..? |
| |
↖ |
14:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:19:27 phf: mats: on the other hand don't worry, indians doing boats doesn't elevate indians, it simple makes boating declase. i know that, because despite being a snow nigger, i pass, being of class. |
14:48 |
* |
asciilifeform suspects he wouldn't 'pass' (tho, as with the old joak re 'can you play the violin?' 'dunno, not tried...') |
14:49 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101243 << what didja have prior? |
14:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:43:47 signpost: got a daniel defense ddm4v7 |
14:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101247 << oblig re subj |
14:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:46:24 phf: signpost: it's semiauto, or you waited yr+ for auto? |
14:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101257 << double-edged sword ( e.g. would it still work after you've clubbed sumbody with the stock ? ) |
14:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:54:17 mats: another toy i've been eyeing is a 640x480 atn thermal monocular |
15:04 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i don't think it's meant to be mounted on a rifle, like a scope. they're for scouting / sighting |
| |
↖ |
15:06 |
billymg |
"spotting", that's the word |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
15:26 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101034 << great timing |
15:26 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-05-10 23:29:59 billymg: "2) "Moreover, because custodially held crypto assets may be considered to be the property of a bankruptcy estate, in the event of a bankruptcy, the crypto assets we hold in custody on behalf of our customers could be subject to bankruptcy proceedings..." |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
15:42 |
phf |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101312 << maybe you put more into it than meant: it's no different than fitting in at a shriner fundraiser or a crust punk party, just another way to pass time. |
15:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 10:45:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101169 << lol! congrats..? |
15:46 |
phf |
besides it's hardly "better sort of people m'boy" anymore, the transformation wrought by the information highway affected all classes equally |
15:47 |
phf |
there's a running social comment how the wealthy can't really get a better iphone than you, well, they can't really get better iphone content than you either |
15:50 |
asciilifeform |
phf: iirc in original it went sumthinglike 'rockefeller drinks the same cocacola as erryoneelse' |
15:54 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101321 << hm possibly. saw the flat bottom, assumed it had rail mount. and defo saw this kinda thing at the range, massive 10$k golden toilets bolted to a 2$k iron |
15:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 11:02:35 billymg: asciilifeform: i don't think it's meant to be mounted on a rifle, like a scope. they're for scouting / sighting |
15:55 |
* |
asciilifeform owned a number of thermovisors, for unrelated purposes, all of'em were rubbish, suspects that 'real deal' can only be had on black market |
15:56 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: I've got a crappy 9mm other than the rifle |
15:56 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: a, so this was signpost's 1st long barrel |
15:57 |
signpost |
got a rusty mosin nagant too, but haven't shot it in a while |
15:57 |
signpost |
but yeah, taking on rifle work in earnest for the first time |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
mosin w/ optic will prolly still be in use in next century.. |
15:59 |
signpost |
isn't a bad gun. my old thing was mighty accurate last I shot |
15:59 |
asciilifeform |
sadly in 1890s not yet invented chrome plating inside barrel tho |
16:03 |
* |
signpost might get another and treat it better; got proper storage now |
16:04 |
signpost |
got the ddm4 because I can get the ammo easy, and it's reputed to be sturdy/reliable |
16:05 |
signpost |
will see how it goes |
16:07 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101188 << heh |
16:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:25:18 phf: signpost: lol, left where? mp had a very solid point "you're an engineer, going to X now instead?" |
16:07 |
signpost |
arguably at that job I was a politician, and I didn't want to have my reward pathways hit for doing that for too long. |
16:09 |
* |
asciilifeform has witnessed folx losing last remnants of brain after 'promotion to management' |
16:09 |
signpost |
yup. that was the other fork that could've been taken. |
16:10 |
asciilifeform |
a, assumed is what meant by 'politician' |
16:10 |
signpost |
they have degrees of it. |
16:11 |
* |
asciilifeform not done time in any similar bureaucracy, with exception of u.s. army, where, having rank of 'contractor', not truly tasted the bitter cup, all 'contractor' being effectively same rank (slave) |
16:12 |
* |
signpost has this notion that having a false face backflows, ends up only face. |
16:12 |
asciilifeform |
'you are what you pretend to be'(tm)(r) |
16:13 |
signpost |
yep, exactly that. |
16:15 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101194 << see also... |
16:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:26:17 mats: lots of small talk about montana/utah/wyoming, horsing, yellowstone, boats, flying to disneyworld for a weekend jaunt, their tesla suv, the tragedy of their six year old's favourite food being chilean seabass |
16:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-31 23:12:51 asciilifeform: 'because they have no theorems to prove'(tm)(r)(p.erdos) |
16:17 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101226 << pretty odd voir dire q. ( was a footballist on trial ?! ) |
| |
↖ |
16:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 01:40:57 verisimilitude: I wasn't selected, because I admitted to hating football. |
16:17 |
signpost |
https://www.briankhaney.com/perf-season-at-google/ << this, obviously, can become a game, and the only game. |
16:18 |
* |
asciilifeform called up like clockwork erry 3y, where he lives. one time even sat, was lulzy |
16:18 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-01-11 asciilifeform: phf: believe or not, asciilifeform sat on a jury once where 100% of the evidence was the computrace nonsense |
16:20 |
* |
asciilifeform lives in a place where courthouse is packed to the gills (all 4d/w that it is open, lol) and good % of adult population is Officially 'disqualified' from jury service |
16:21 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: a, was 1 of those shitholes with quarterly decimations ? |
16:22 |
* |
asciilifeform naively imagined that folx who end up in there on acct of their co being bought, would've been exempt |
16:25 |
signpost |
we were tiny, and at that scale, one might expect similar logic applied as if VCs were putting money in. |
16:25 |
signpost |
"made 100 bets, fine if 1-2 survive" |
16:25 |
signpost |
not a big deal; I was in that thing for a decade. fine way to close up shop. |
16:25 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: was it 1 of those deals where they buy yer co with stock, and then you gotta survive a term of indenture until 'vests' ? |
16:26 |
signpost |
can't say, but typical deals have a mix of compensation. |
16:26 |
asciilifeform |
aite |
16:27 |
* |
asciilifeform to date only participated in the variant of that adventure which ends w/ losing shirt, lol |
16:27 |
signpost |
I left earlier than my biz partner, thanks to the upward movement of BTC. left a chunk on the table, but don't care. |
16:28 |
signpost |
hey I might lose my shirt; give me time |
16:28 |
signpost |
:D |
16:36 |
* |
signpost is the demented type that wanted the small business pain back when it was gone. |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
16:53 |
billymg |
signpost: what did your business do/provide? i'm always curious when people figure out a way to carve out a sustainable small biz in the software industry |
16:54 |
billymg |
would be satisfied even with a vague ansewr |
16:54 |
billymg |
answer* |
16:58 |
signpost |
restaurant online ordering |
17:00 |
signpost |
our pricing blew competition out of the water because we didn't have a VC ponzi to refuel, and we worked our asses off building adapters to legacy platforms in addition to the modern ones with web APIs. |
17:01 |
signpost |
also very tight ship, 10 people at height. |
17:01 |
billymg |
very cool |
17:01 |
signpost |
probably one aspect that made it work was getting started right after the 08 bust. |
17:02 |
signpost |
(which is exactly why I took off the golden handcuffs to write my own code during the current bust) |
17:11 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101357 I know. They were asking every potential juror this stupid question of opinion. |
17:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 12:15:43 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101226 << pretty odd voir dire q. ( was a footballist on trial ?! ) |
17:11 |
verisimilitude |
No footballist, just a ``football American'', say. |
17:14 |
verisimilitude |
I told them may what I thought of the stupid sport go on the record, and was assured it had. |
17:14 |
billymg |
signpost: with my 2+ years of freedom i've regained the energy to do another fiat grind, but don't know yet what that would be |
17:18 |
signpost |
will give ya a shout if I get one figured out. would much rather work within the wot this time if it's possible. |
17:19 |
phf |
signpost: are you still in discovery phase? |
17:21 |
thimbronion |
billymg, signpost lemme know as well if my services are needed |
17:21 |
signpost |
yep, just prototyping things. pentacle's meant to be my embedded platform, for example. |
17:22 |
* |
signpost previously did one using gentoo for the old biz. |
17:23 |
signpost |
but if anybody else has a soft target to propose I'm open to ideas, so long as nobody tries to get me to sign away my ability to author items myself. |
| |
↖ |
17:24 |
signpost |
thimbronion: 100% |
17:24 |
signpost |
will give you a shout if anything starts working |
17:24 |
billymg |
i've got one idea, but it wouldn't be any fun |
17:24 |
billymg |
will describe it, might as well: |
17:24 |
signpost |
billymg: is it more fun than hammering on my dick wth solidity, because I did that from about jan-mar to at least have an informed critique of defi |
17:25 |
phf |
signpost: oh you're in tech? i got this idea, let's just quickly sign nda and non-compete before i explain it to you |
17:25 |
signpost |
hue |
17:25 |
signpost |
please excuse my allergies |
17:26 |
billymg |
there's squarespace / shopify which have platforms for small businesses to create templated websites. there is also a cottage industry of freelancers / small shops that do the work of configuring/maintaining these (because in reality even the point-and-click of squarespace/shopify is too much for some small biz owners) |
17:27 |
billymg |
some of these freelancers/small shops charge monthly to the client, so the client subscribes to them, and they subscribe to shopify/squarespace |
17:27 |
billymg |
and just pocket the difference |
17:27 |
billymg |
so i was thinking do the same thing but with a dulap/pentacle self-hosted box running mp-wp (easy to build/customize templates in there) |
17:28 |
billymg |
which keeps the costs way lower than paying squarespace/shopify on the backend |
17:28 |
billymg |
then it's just a grind of cold calling and accumulating customers/subscribers |
17:28 |
signpost |
narrow margins in there; we used to do it for bigger clients. |
17:29 |
billymg |
that's what i thought, but narrow marigins can be mangeable if you can stay lean and still scale |
17:29 |
signpost |
could be doable after the bust, when there's a bunch of new-growth businesses |
17:29 |
billymg |
but also have nfi what this looks like with actual numbers and in the actual market right now |
17:30 |
phf |
migrations is always such a pain though |
17:30 |
signpost |
that's exactly how we financed ourselves; hands-on full service shop at the beginning that'd build the restaurant's website, and bolt in our online ordering. |
17:30 |
signpost |
later when the product was more complete we focused on that, dropped the marketing work |
17:31 |
signpost |
the former was a bitch; clients want to pay nothing and tweak endlessly. |
17:31 |
signpost |
better to get a few giant accounts if you're going to do that, and bend over backwards for them, than go wide |
17:31 |
* |
signpost bbl, relocating |
17:32 |
billymg |
signpost: the trick is managing their expectations upfront, outlining "cost-per-tweak" upfront |
17:34 |
billymg |
but yes, i've dealt with it first hand and know that in practice it's sometimes hard to say no when the client says "but could we just make this one section a little bigger" and how those start to add up |
| |
↖ |
17:46 |
* |
asciilifeform would happily participate in signpost's scheme but likely is wrong type of plumber |
| |
↖ |
17:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101395 << outta curiosity, what counts as 'soft target' ? |
| |
↖ |
17:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 13:22:00 signpost: but if anybody else has a soft target to propose I'm open to ideas, so long as nobody tries to get me to sign away my ability to author items myself. |
17:53 |
verisimilitude |
A soft target is easy to penetrate, right? |
17:53 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: 'easy' typically means that someone already penetrated tho |
17:54 |
verisimilitude |
So, in business as in women, I see. |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
similarly |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
or anywhere else |
17:55 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-26#1099133 Has that family member shut up now, billymg? |
17:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-04-26 01:11:40 billymg: i've got these family members, one of whom i set up with a paper wallet back in '15 or so. now the other family member is telling the former "you should put that on coinbase, where it's regulated" |
17:59 |
billymg |
verisimilitude: lol, have not trolled them with the recent news yet |
17:59 |
billymg |
did troll another "i'll keep them on coinbase thankyouverymuch" friend though |
18:02 |
* |
asciilifeform wonders whatever happened to those folx w/ the 'bake trb kit for illiterates' 'biz' |
18:10 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere jfw |
18:10 |
dulapbot |
jfw last seen in #trinque on 2020-10-24 02:57:20: trinque: thank you for the wallet service and help yourself to a $beverage with whatever's left after the withdrawal txn fee. |
18:13 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: they're still at it http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2022/jwrd-logs-for-May-2022/ |
18:17 |
phf |
they kind of remind of oglaf's dwarves, https://imgur.com/gallery/n488M6N |
18:20 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: from cursory look at linked pg, seems like they're still banging head against the cpp turd, lol |
18:21 |
* |
asciilifeform naively pictured that 3+y is moar than enuff time to bake a sane client, for N d00dz who otherwise not occupied w/ anyffin, and realize the need for such |
| |
↖ |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
evidently not.. |
18:21 |
* |
signpost looks forward to gales linux suddenly growing a "gbuild" with src in vpatches. |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
18:22 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101421 << yep no doubts you're capable of making such a thing work. |
18:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 13:33:12 billymg: but yes, i've dealt with it first hand and know that in practice it's sometimes hard to say no when the client says "but could we just make this one section a little bigger" and how those start to add up |
18:24 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i thought the way the events played out was bizarre. here are two guys, one a talented cs guy, the other a talented sales guy (as far as i can judge), who come late to a dying cult, and after the cult is fully dead, and leader himself dead no less, they continue to... align with the cult |
18:24 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101422 << would be 100% welcome. perhaps in re: what constitutes a sane, distributed control plane for embedded widgets. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
18:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 13:44:20 asciilifeform: would happily participate in signpost's scheme but likely is wrong type of plumber |
18:24 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: that part not mega-surprise, hey, there's still folx praying to odin somewhere |
18:25 |
signpost |
billymg: arguably I'm still "aligned with the cult" so I can't really level a critique at that |
18:25 |
* |
billymg would welcome either one of them if they showed up here or in #pest and wanted to work towards any number of things being worked on here |
18:25 |
signpost |
sure |
18:25 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: pestronic teleoperation could be interesting |
18:25 |
signpost |
I'll still make fun of their golf attire though. |
18:25 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: mhm, exactly that |
18:25 |
billymg |
signpost: i don't mean "aligned with the cult" in sense of "still consider myself a republican", but still aligned with what it devolved into in the end |
18:26 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101447 This seems like a category error to me. |
18:26 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 14:22:29 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101422 << would be 100% welcome. perhaps in re: what constitutes a sane, distributed control plane for embedded widgets. |
18:26 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: or even e.g. anti-ddos pill which actually worx, say |
18:26 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-18 18:50:48 asciilifeform: ( and we haven't even touched the implications of practically impossible to ddos hosting etc. ) |
18:26 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: then say how, because the fella seems to know what I mean. |
18:26 |
billymg |
i got the impression that signpost still aligns with what it once was/could have been -- the ideal -- not the mad king run thing at the end |
18:27 |
signpost |
eh, even getting mad at the guy, it's an admission that I regret his collapse. |
18:27 |
verisimilitude |
Firstly, let us agree on the meanings of ``embedded'' and ``widgets'', signpost. |
18:28 |
billymg |
i regret it too, and regret that he didn't take over the world (would've preferred that to globohomo). but now that that's not the case, seems silly to continue to hitch your wagon to that horse |
18:29 |
signpost |
no argument. |
18:29 |
phf |
billymg: why though? those guys came significantly late in the proceedings, knew presumably what they were signing up for, and were ok with it |
18:30 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: any device you might field for any reason, and wish that to supply data to a distributed system reliably. |
18:30 |
signpost |
and also to respond to command. |
18:30 |
billymg |
phf: that's what i meant when i said i found it bizarre. you'd think (or i'd think at least) that those with less time invested would find it easier to move on afterwards |
18:32 |
signpost |
maybe they were around earlier under other names, or who knows |
18:32 |
phf |
billymg: i think they are genuine fans of mp, rather than tmsr |
18:33 |
verisimilitude |
I retract the accusation of a category error, signpost. |
18:33 |
signpost |
np |
18:35 |
phf |
now is kind of like the best time to be mp fan, man left lots of texts, that one can interpret without fear of getting called out, and they have significant claim to "the teachings" not having been cast out. seems like a perfect recipe for cozy little community |
18:36 |
verisimilitude |
Those are called cults, phf. |
18:41 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101423 << perhaps the fearful middle during collapse, I think. |
| |
↖ |
18:41 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 13:50:34 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101395 << outta curiosity, what counts as 'soft target' ? |
18:44 |
phf |
start wearing suits and walking around with canes, make sexual analogies for every subject, "looky, the cunt will fill up, there's no method" |
| |
↖ |
18:44 |
phf |
i think even welshcomputing is insufficiently what it's supposed to be! |
18:47 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934677 |
18:47 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2019-09-07 mircea_popescu: market schmarket, markets are created not identified. |
18:48 |
signpost |
oh ok god-dad. |
18:48 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934681 etc |
18:48 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2019-09-07 mircea_popescu: that's your market identification right there, it's identified : i want to buy the washington monument for pennies. they'll sell it, as they have to, because they're old. |
18:50 |
signpost |
there's this ancient hubris, where a man that's consistently smarter than most people thinks this means smarter than the natural process producing the people. |
18:50 |
signpost |
that process gives not one shit about any particular person. |
| |
↖ |
18:50 |
signpost |
phf: what was the thing you said about orthodox christianity, that jesus loves you, but not *you*! |
18:52 |
phf |
signpost: i'm still mulling over my disappointment that welshcomputing mp cult is not proper cult-like |
18:52 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-10-03#1720156 |
18:52 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-10-03 phf: i'm not sure, but not in the way that phrase is cliche in english. god loves you, christ acts from inner great love. i'm not sure christ loves ~you~ as such |
18:54 |
signpost |
phf: maybe in 50 more years the guy gets a proper devoted peasant castration cult that agrees they're normie cucks. |
18:55 |
signpost |
precedent exists for these |
18:55 |
signpost |
Rite of the Dulapidated |
18:57 |
phf |
signpost: i think *you* and ~you~ are different inflections :p yours seem to imply some kind of internal paradox of "christ loves you" as a principle, that at the same time doesn't apply on concrete individual level |
18:59 |
signpost |
plural vs specific you is what I was using; english is trash. |
| |
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19:00 |
phf |
where's in orthodox church christ's love is that of a stern patriarch (that is back when such terms had meaning) or a shepherd over the flock: he'll be genuinely sad when he has to punish you, but he will do it for the common good, etc. |
19:01 |
signpost |
to my mind that common good takes the idea that we're not actually separate as foundation, if not usually explicitly stated. |
19:01 |
signpost |
the sin's that the creature behaves like he's separate from god, which is not possible if there were a god. |
19:05 |
mats |
we are all little gods running around barefoot |
19:05 |
mats |
praise me |
19:06 |
signpost |
tricking all the meatsacks into attacking the same point in unison is mighty technology; I'm not going to arrogantly shit on it. |
| |
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19:07 |
signpost |
whether such a trick's longevity says something about its approximation of reality is above my paygrade. |
19:08 |
phf |
signpost: i don't get how my god comment is tied to the preceeding comments on mp though http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101487 etc. |
19:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 14:48:38 signpost: that process gives not one shit about any particular person. |
19:10 |
signpost |
I went from the "looky the cunt will fill up" to his non-statements on how to build a business. |
19:10 |
signpost |
to what killed him |
19:12 |
signpost |
I misunderstood your thing about what orthodox "god's love" is, but I like my misunderstanding better. |
19:12 |
phf |
that i figured, but how does it tie to the god loves you, but not you? you mean like even if you have a gilded life, you can still drown in the sea? |
19:13 |
signpost |
that if the guy beating your ass to correct you doesn't realize that you and he are not separate, he's going to start liking giving the beatings, and that will take over. |
19:13 |
signpost |
mp thought he beat reality itself, as far as I can tell. personified. |
19:14 |
signpost |
iirc it's on trilema somewhere, that "I held my finger up, said bang, the world fell down" |
19:14 |
signpost |
self-awarely said ^ |
19:18 |
phf |
i dunno, that's just will. william burroughs has his character shoot at the moon and the sky to make a hole in the film of reality and all the people in the known cry out "stop him, he's not just going for our cozy little operation, he'll bring the whole theater down, run for your lives every man for himself". it's a pretty poetic way to describe a total, unrelenting opposition to the sttatus quo on an existential level |
19:20 |
signpost |
will of what towards what. |
19:22 |
* |
signpost quite done admiring suicidality, "look at the balls on this guy, giving the finger to all reality" |
19:22 |
phf |
will as archetype, towards what though is variable, kind of whole point of e.g. romantic literature is will with no way to realize it |
19:26 |
signpost |
the problem this thing - defiance of the gods - is trying to compensate, is that the ride ends abruptly and without recourse. |
19:27 |
signpost |
from another angle, what, europe was wrong about god, but not the soul also? |
19:28 |
signpost |
this is also my answer to you why mp has no lasting respectable cult. at the root of the cosmology, there were the categories "mp" and "everything else" |
19:29 |
signpost |
same goes for your shoot a hole in the sky guy, though I admit to not knowing the reference. |
19:31 |
phf |
i don't get your point at all :) can you restate it in simpler words, preferably in terms of whores and penises? |
19:31 |
signpost |
wahaha |
19:31 |
signpost |
"fucked one cunt you've fucked 'em all" |
| |
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19:32 |
phf |
the cult question was a joke, like the "shootout" scene from the movie legend |
19:32 |
phf |
^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNl3jvApJqU |
19:32 |
signpost |
well look, I can't go untake all the acid. too late for me. |
19:32 |
phf |
"i came here for a proper fucking cult with proper fucking men" etc. |
19:34 |
signpost |
pretty good |
19:34 |
signpost |
I dunno man, if we're going to do 3000 more years of will to power, and pissing on rocks, I think I'll just go roll a joint somewhere and smile. |
19:36 |
phf |
i didn't mention power |
19:36 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101524 << ahahaha imma use this next time JW's show up "Nah I just think Gods are like whores ....." |
19:36 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 15:29:47 signpost: "fucked one cunt you've fucked 'em all" |
19:37 |
signpost |
some dick destroying reality because he can is definitely will-to-power in the limit. |
19:38 |
signpost |
nietszche's term |
19:38 |
signpost |
*zs |
19:40 |
phf |
signpost: yeah, but… that's like… your opinion man! |
19:40 |
signpost |
sho nuff |
19:43 |
phf |
nah, i'm not buying it. would breaking the walls of the prison you're in will to power? or picking up a tree log, because you have the strength to do so? |
19:44 |
signpost |
I took the guy ripping reality to mean that he was going to "bring the whole theater down" meaning break the universe, which includes him. |
19:45 |
signpost |
you're imagining some third-person view to whom this act means something; I'm not |
19:45 |
signpost |
or rather, this is how I take ya |
19:45 |
signpost |
the prison, sure, burn it. and burn anyone who imprisons you. |
19:46 |
signpost |
to take a step back for a sec, I think there are stupid notions buried very deep in european-OS. |
19:46 |
phf |
signpost: if you shoot the moon of the film you're in, that's the whole you escape through of course. while they are panicking, we're going to get out through the backdoor, duh |
19:47 |
phf |
*that's the hole |
19:47 |
signpost |
if there's an into-what, makes it different. |
19:47 |
signpost |
got out into something that doesn't succumb to heat death / big crunch, hooray, game gets moar cycles |
19:48 |
phf |
signpost: you're talking some kind of framework, and i'm talking archetypes, poetry. it doesn't need to make sense, in some kind of coherent cosmological way! |
19:48 |
signpost |
brb, but there we differ eh! |
19:48 |
signpost |
got a delivery guy here, sec |
19:50 |
phf |
in the extreme case of this position you could say that a lunatic doesn't care that there's the heat death of the universe (how do you even know that by the way?), because lives in his head |
19:55 |
signpost |
I was giving a reason it might be rational to break the reality you're leaving behind. |
19:55 |
signpost |
if there was what-else to escape into. |
20:02 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-31#1091145 << the reason why to bother with any of it. |
20:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-31 17:11:00 phf: signpost: i've maybe come to the same conclusion as you, that you can't have the civilization without the transcendental. |
20:02 |
signpost |
christendom beget the enlightenment rationality that destroyed it. not coming back. |
20:03 |
signpost |
and anyone with a head that still works is polishing an heirloom pulled from the context which made it meaningful, and defending as isolated tautology. |
20:03 |
signpost |
this was your well-reasoned critique of my ability to appreciate classical music compared to those that shared its context. |
20:03 |
signpost |
100% agree with it, btw. |
20:06 |
phf |
well to close one loop though, i don't think that mp's shoot the sky was nihilistic |
20:07 |
phf |
that is that it didn't necessarily need to be, could be that, could be will to power, could be some kind of mystical poetry |
20:07 |
signpost |
yeah, I could be charitable and grant that it wasn't. |
20:07 |
phf |
oh remembered apropos aguirre scene :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKPJBd7gniw |
20:12 |
signpost |
blasphemy is only exciting while god lives. |
20:12 |
signpost |
"woah that guy said the naughty, and won a few battles" |
20:13 |
signpost |
these succumb to the reality warping used to assemble them. |
20:13 |
phf |
well in aguirre's case the blasphemy is of a very particular kind, luceferian, that's like high blasphemy. we're mostly left with debased kind |
20:14 |
signpost |
mhm |
20:15 |
* |
signpost grants that mp spoke defiance to the living gods. |
20:15 |
phf |
actually probably not even that, he's claiming himself to be a god's proxy, without rejecting god |
20:15 |
signpost |
eh |
20:16 |
signpost |
satan's god's proxy in job, not incompatible |
20:16 |
phf |
well lucifer claimed himself to be equal to god |
20:17 |
signpost |
iirc he asked permission to torment job regardless of claims to equality |
20:17 |
signpost |
at any rate I don't hold this in high regard because it was written a long time ago. |
| |
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20:18 |
phf |
by dead white men no less |
20:18 |
signpost |
not even gay ones |
20:18 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101496 I've solved this. |
20:18 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 14:57:25 signpost: plural vs specific you is what I was using; english is trash. |
20:18 |
signpost |
upstack, I'm saying that this "shoot a hole in the sky" is an archetype which is meaningful in the context of thinking men escaping christianity. |
20:19 |
signpost |
*escaping*, forever. |
20:19 |
verisimilitude |
Jesus loves you, but not thee! |
20:19 |
phf |
signpost: well, it's also meaningful in that context, but not |
20:19 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: tbh this is why I stopped ripping on your archaisms. |
20:19 |
phf |
*but not only |
20:19 |
signpost |
christianity rules, not the thinking men. even now. |
20:20 |
signpost |
just took its final form as motherstate. |
20:20 |
verisimilitude |
I realized a man who only fights against degenerations in his time isn't really fighting them, but ceding ground. |
20:20 |
* |
signpost will listen to the "not only" |
20:20 |
phf |
i mean shoot a hole in the sky is straight up koan (the one with the nun and a bucket) |
20:21 |
signpost |
easy to get stuck forever escaping, and not escaped, with those too. |
20:22 |
verisimilitude |
Rather than continue with English, and eventually break into Old English akin to Beowulf, it was better to start learning Latin instead. |
| |
↖ |
20:22 |
phf |
signpost: well, i don't think aguirre is a fable, because you know it's for grownups, his failure does not necessarily mean "don't go looking for eldorado, cause you gon die", even his hubris is not necessarily to be judged, in this case his will is what took him and his party far enough |
20:23 |
verisimilitude |
Even then, I've learned so much about English I'd never thought to question. |
20:23 |
phf |
so the idea that escape is from somewhere to somewhere worse is kind of like a moot point often |
20:24 |
signpost |
the thing I'm rejecting is that it's useful to lie. it's entirely useful to suppose. |
20:24 |
signpost |
the inward-lying is the kind discussed. |
20:25 |
signpost |
can one will without knowingly lying? |
20:25 |
signpost |
possibly we differ there, if anywhere. |
20:26 |
* |
signpost could be 100% full of shit, but attempting to emit as little shit as can be avoided. |
20:26 |
signpost |
and there's a why to ^ that might not be a shared prior. |
20:27 |
verisimilitude |
It's good to be honest with oneself. |
20:28 |
phf |
i dunno, you keep bringing in these new concepts, rational, lying :> |
20:28 |
verisimilitude |
Every time someone tries to assuage a bad situation with ``It's okay.'' I counter with ``It doesn't matter if it be okay.'' and variations. |
20:28 |
signpost |
phf: it's alright to leave things at us not agreeing that they're related. |
20:29 |
verisimilitude |
I'm a fun person around whom to be, obviously. |
20:29 |
verisimilitude |
The women love a man who never lies, right? |
20:30 |
phf |
like you need to define what lie is, because i understand it in very concrete terms "bearing false witness against thy neighbour", or you know "who took the cookie? -- not me" |
20:30 |
signpost |
phf: I have provided you with an update to your model of reality which does not match mine. |
20:30 |
phf |
but like is your pastor lying to you, because he ought to know that god doesn't exist science says so |
20:30 |
signpost |
no. |
20:32 |
signpost |
and inward lying is the intentional debasement of one's own model of reality. |
20:33 |
phf |
signpost: what would be an example of that in the realm of the previous points in the conversation? |
20:33 |
verisimilitude |
Faith is hope, and it's better to be hopeless. |
20:34 |
signpost |
sec, just realized my texan dropping of words made something ambiguous. |
20:34 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101576 << *solely because |
20:34 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 16:16:14 signpost: at any rate I don't hold this in high regard because it was written a long time ago. |
20:36 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101479 << for example, that this is certainly not the manner in which mp made his own money. |
20:36 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 14:42:19 phf: start wearing suits and walking around with canes, make sexual analogies for every subject, "looky, the cunt will fill up, there's no method" |
20:37 |
phf |
signpost: oh, but that's a fanclub thing though, not about money at all |
20:37 |
signpost |
then we had no real aspirations to do anything in the world. |
20:37 |
phf |
wait i don't get it |
20:38 |
signpost |
np, I'm probably still giving half-models here. will try again. |
20:38 |
signpost |
guy claims to have stuck a fork in usg repeatedly. |
20:38 |
phf |
the reason why his fanclub should do these things is cause that's what fanclubsdo |
20:38 |
signpost |
creates a gathering of folks who consider the thing an enemy to everything good. |
20:39 |
signpost |
"baus what's the method by which we can get moar leverage against this evil?" |
20:39 |
signpost |
to which he replies, if you don't know, eat shit and die. |
| |
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20:39 |
* |
signpost doesn't need a leg up, but this is the worst leadership I've ever seen, from one of the most otherwise brilliant people I've encountered. |
20:40 |
signpost |
if you see value in it as an art project, maybe it continues to animate other things that well justify it, that's alright with me. |
20:40 |
signpost |
but the above is my view. |
20:42 |
phf |
signpost: so are you arguing whether or not mp should have fans at all? |
20:43 |
phf |
i sort of took the existence of his fans (whether or not he's wrong on points) as a given, and was saying that they are not acting sufficiently fan like. |
20:44 |
signpost |
I think he will be forgotten for the stated reasons, and "why such a puny fandom?" is because it's in progress. |
20:45 |
phf |
he'll be forgotten because he gave you bad advise once? i mean i don't disagree that he will probably be forgotten, but that's flimsy grounds :> |
20:47 |
signpost |
eh, models of reality are too distant. I'm not gonna take the other side of that. |
20:47 |
signpost |
often has seemed like there's a cultural gap here. "of course the role of a leader is to shit into your head" |
| |
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20:48 |
phf |
signpost: that's not a nice thing to say, if you think through the implications |
20:48 |
signpost |
well, and the reduction of my statement to "bad advice one time" is low effort. |
20:48 |
signpost |
was actually trying to be charitable and figure out why that's how you see it. |
20:50 |
signpost |
lemme try again. I don't consider that the bad advice was one particular instance. |
20:50 |
phf |
signpost: i dunno why you got all bristled, i thought we were having a nice conversation |
20:51 |
signpost |
not at all bristled. brought up culture for this reason. |
20:51 |
signpost |
perhaps you deem that mp was as he should've been, and I can see reasons to defend that view. |
20:52 |
signpost |
up until the point that it fails to work. |
20:52 |
phf |
ah, no looky |
20:53 |
signpost |
(and it's funny you think that the cultural gap must mean I'm of the better one :p) |
20:53 |
* |
signpost burps |
20:54 |
phf |
signpost: no, what you said is not nice /directly/ without further implications. "you are of culture where leader shit into your head" is the equivalent. i would not find that offensive if i also saw "shitting into ones head" as a positive thing, but i don't :> |
20:56 |
signpost |
I don't avoid treading into offensive places if it's a more direct route to figuring out what the hell we're talking about. |
20:57 |
signpost |
I presented a model that was wrong, and you can thereby fix it. |
20:57 |
signpost |
what is the redeeming quality of that leader that I've failed to understand? |
20:59 |
signpost |
"those are pretty words about the generation starship you want us to build, boss. any notions on how to pay for it?" |
21:02 |
phf |
signpost: i don't know how this conversation turned into me defending mp, but here's what i think, i think that you have the kakobrekla mental bug, since you know we are being honest, which manifests in a kind of obsessive "this man was the devil" line |
| |
↖ |
21:02 |
phf |
to some extent i got dragged away from pleasant metaphysics into a conversation how bad man was bad, where's i don't support your further |
21:03 |
phf |
*ferver? |
21:03 |
phf |
fervor! |
21:03 |
signpost |
what you did is got upset that I dared misunderstand your perspective. |
21:03 |
signpost |
so, eh, yawn. |
21:03 |
phf |
signpost: what? |
21:03 |
signpost |
we can leave it be. |
21:04 |
phf |
you're entirely projecting |
21:04 |
signpost |
the metaphysical conversation benefits from examples if one's head isn't partitioned so. |
21:05 |
signpost |
mp isn't badman. upstack we were discussing the context in which one might have business in here. |
21:05 |
signpost |
that these things are not all connected *to you* is fine. |
21:05 |
signpost |
and that there's a class of men where it's unseemly to discuss their failings, alright. |
21:05 |
phf |
_in here_? i was discussing a fanclub that someone else has, welshcomputing guys |
21:05 |
signpost |
this thwarts doing it better. |
21:06 |
signpost |
dunno how one discusses the welshderps without discussing the source material for the affectations. |
21:07 |
phf |
signpost: because the affectations are supposed to be funny? |
21:07 |
phf |
his fanclub in the form of welshcomputing also supposed to be funny |
21:09 |
phf |
the way the conversation started from my perspective is me basically going "your grandpa had a funny way of talking. kids these days! pop was only 2 cents!" and normally a conversation like that goes something like "heheh, yeah, get of my lawn! heheh" but instead it went "he raped me you know. that man raped me" |
21:09 |
signpost |
that's a bizarre interpretation. |
21:09 |
signpost |
I was discussing my reading of nietzsche and heidegger again. |
21:09 |
signpost |
there is something broken in every man, not mp. |
21:10 |
signpost |
whether you care is your own problem. |
21:10 |
signpost |
I will continue to connect things as I see fit, and state them here, and folks are welcome to say where I fail. |
21:15 |
phf |
i don't think that interpretation is particularly bizarre (i mean you'd figure since i made it), because we were talking about lying and i couldn't understand how it connects to previous conversation, so as an example you brought up a very particular point from your past, which is very tenuously connected to the subject of lying |
21:15 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101593 << rec to try... icelandic: rather resembles an alt-universe english which never lost cases, grammatic sex, etc |
21:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 16:20:57 verisimilitude: Rather than continue with English, and eventually break into Old English akin to Beowulf, it was better to start learning Latin instead. |
21:17 |
phf |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101629 was the punchline. so that is an illustration for how mp was a bad leader, or just generally a jerk, but what's it to do with lying? |
21:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 16:37:46 signpost: to which he replies, if you don't know, eat shit and die. |
21:17 |
signpost |
well, whether you think so is your problem. you brought up why the only thing left of the man was sad imitation of affect. I said why. |
21:18 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101655 << fwiw asciilifeform's pov is that 'ineffectual crackpot', rather than 'devil' |
21:18 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 17:00:21 phf: signpost: i don't know how this conversation turned into me defending mp, but here's what i think, i think that you have the kakobrekla mental bug, since you know we are being honest, which manifests in a kind of obsessive "this man was the devil" line |
21:20 |
verisimilitude |
Perhaps I may, if I've ever the time, asciilifeform. |
21:21 |
signpost |
phf: to pick an example, you'll tell me that "srs man of biznis" considered starting a commodity web hosting business in UY was a serious attempt at achieving his objectives? |
21:21 |
signpost |
and really, I'll only continue if you accept that what I want is to succeed, and not to bitch about the badman. |
21:21 |
signpost |
if not, what's the point. |
21:22 |
signpost |
or that "chinese miner conspiracy" was anything but petulance? |
21:22 |
signpost |
self-thwarted. all along the way. |
21:22 |
phf |
signpost: well, i can talk about these things if we just accept that the subject of conversation was changed, rather me failing to understand how it connects with nietche and lying |
21:22 |
phf |
*rather than |
21:23 |
signpost |
nah, I'll just park it. |
21:23 |
phf |
man i still don't understand why you got so bent out of shape |
21:24 |
signpost |
I'm not, but establishing priors seems to be running into something. can't say what. |
21:26 |
* |
signpost happy to grant that he has not emitted enough coherent model to connect these things, and apologizes to phf for implying he was perhaps of a destructive culture. |
21:26 |
phf |
is that a texan thing? you can't acknowledge that you're mad? |
21:26 |
signpost |
nah, I'm as confused as you are bud. |
21:26 |
signpost |
"these things are all connected; what's not coming across?" |
21:29 |
phf |
well, i'm explicitly not understanding how mp's incompetence as a leader is connected to previous points, lying and nietche and all that |
21:29 |
signpost |
nietzsche deals at length with men being stuck in revenge against dead-god. |
21:30 |
phf |
but if they are not, and it's just a different subject, then that's fine we can talk about it |
21:30 |
signpost |
this is a stuck state. it can't be untangled without destroying and redefining terms. |
21:31 |
signpost |
the thing doesn't exist, and the creature wishes revenge upon the thing for not existing. |
21:31 |
signpost |
this is one place we might diverge. I see this stuck-desire-for-revenge in all "shoot the sky" |
21:31 |
signpost |
if you'll for a moment set aside that I can only use that symbol in the manner used today, and not contextualized in whatever it was written. |
21:33 |
phf |
ok with you so far, your perspective is that mp's shoot the sky is a revenge against non-existent god for not existing. |
21:34 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-09#1100817 << also worth mentioning that I have a pretty heavy definition for what the forum is for, to be the arena in which these cracks at the unanswerables occur. |
21:34 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-09 18:55:07 signpost: perhaps in this framing good is what gives the coordinating human object as many cracks at the unanswerables as possible |
21:34 |
signpost |
yep |
21:35 |
phf |
but how is that connected to the idea of lying? |
21:36 |
signpost |
"revenge against god for not existing" is a falsehood, cannot be. |
21:37 |
signpost |
there isn't that against which to take revenge, per the statement, leaving aside reality. |
21:40 |
phf |
ok, so shoot the sky is revenge against god, which is a lie because can't revenge against something that didn't exist |
21:41 |
phf |
how is that connected to mp's ineffectual leadership? |
21:41 |
signpost |
going to try to create some additional context, so take it as that, rather than leaping to someting else I want to yell about. |
21:42 |
signpost |
do we actually want to be rid of our current circumstances? out of the empire, salt the ground where it stood? |
21:42 |
signpost |
the alternative would be to be the marginal characters that know better, drifting in the sea of ignorance forever. |
21:43 |
signpost |
if my descendents are going to have their minds invaded by the same technological hell that's crept into my house, I say stop the project. |
21:43 |
signpost |
whatever hell may or may not be, we'll have created it. |
21:44 |
signpost |
so the question would be whether this is fixable, is poorly constructed, is inevitable. |
21:44 |
signpost |
*the model posed by me is poorly constructed |
21:52 |
signpost |
ftr, wife helps me beat this back out of the house at every turn. wasn't a comment on her. |
21:53 |
phf |
ok, so the context is your concern with replacing current circumstances, particularly when it comes to infiltration of technology into daily life |
21:53 |
signpost |
of totalitarianism into my web of trust. |
21:54 |
signpost |
and not a particular -ism, but the corruption of them into facilitating their own destruction. |
21:56 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-19#1097255 << could say I'm trying to answer you this. |
21:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-04-19 15:14:03 phf: asciilifeform: nor do i think the upstack will get lost, at least not by my doing, because without resolving it, /i/ don't really see any reason to do anything. why would i need peh to chat to you guys about good old days, can do it here fine |
21:57 |
phf |
ok, so the context is your concern with replacing current circumstances, particularly when it comes to infiltration of technology into daily life and particular negatives modes of interpersonal relationship mediated by such technology |
21:58 |
signpost |
all of that is true, and I would synthesize further into "the derangement of shared model-of-reality which necessarily leads to destruction, broadly and individually" |
21:58 |
signpost |
distortion of markets would as easily fit this category as lying to my wife about whether I love her. |
22:07 |
phf |
is it maybe the case that it's not connected in the form of a logical structure, but thematically connected? mp |
22:07 |
phf |
err |
22:09 |
phf |
mp's god lie perhaps is the foundational delusion that makes him into an iffectual leader, and you took this particular line of exploration, because the question of his leadership is important from the framing perspective of what do? |
22:09 |
signpost |
exactly that. |
22:14 |
signpost |
we can set him aside and ask whether prometheus helped anybody by setting the aspiration of man against the gods just as well. |
22:15 |
signpost |
is man at war with the gods or himself. |
22:16 |
signpost |
or say, what a stupid construction it is to say that flying is defiance of gravity. |
22:19 |
phf |
an alternative way to structure a dialog is that of a thesis, and that's the one i tend to employ, that's where statement are connected by their logical relationships in a hypothetical shared in-the-head thesis (that's where the idea of priors come from, by the way, it's the postulates at the beginning of litereally thesis work that establishes foundational assumptions of the future argument). from that perspective thematic connections |
22:19 |
phf |
tend to be confusing, which is also where bulk of misunderstanding came from. you're just talking, where i'm in "dialog" mode. |
22:19 |
signpost |
it's hard to do so here, because I don't have a specific proposal of what to do. |
22:19 |
signpost |
only a line of inquiry |
22:20 |
signpost |
I can understand that, and thank you for your effort to pull out a thesis from me. |
22:21 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101638 << let me also macroexpand this, because it was unskillful. it could be defended (even if I don't believe) that "leaders must use propaganda to shape the behavior of lesser men" and mp considered us his lessers. |
22:21 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 16:46:00 signpost: often has seemed like there's a cultural gap here. "of course the role of a leader is to shit into your head" |
22:21 |
signpost |
it was in this direction I was groping, and not a shot at you specifically. |
22:24 |
verisimilitude |
The only reason a leader wouldn't manipulate his lessers is if he had no need for them. |
22:26 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: well, maybe someday I will ascend such that derangement of my's L1 doesn't backflow into myself, nor rob me of whatever value I may derive from the iterated game with them, but that's not today. |
22:26 |
signpost |
*my |
22:34 |
phf |
signpost: i don't think that what mp was saying was propaganda for the masses, to what extent he himself belived what he was saying (about e.g. china conspiracy) i don't know |
22:36 |
signpost |
in either case, one hopes that this isn't exemplar, to leave room for novel failings to come, and also dissected. |
22:36 |
signpost |
*to be also dissected. |
22:37 |
phf |
i don't see things like that as a lie though, and allow a lot of poetic license, besides i don't see it as any kind of contributor to failure |
22:38 |
verisimilitude |
Don't worry, signpost; I'm certain we'll live to see human failings of which we previously couldn't conceive. |
22:39 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: "father forgive me, I did an original sin. I poked a badger with a spoon" (tm) (r) (eddie izzard) |
22:39 |
phf |
i mean don quixote was not intentionally fighting windmills, nor was he insane in the context of the story, in fact servantes raises similar questions to what we're discussing |
22:39 |
phf |
who needs a knight in a post-knights world, and what's one to do |
22:40 |
signpost |
well, that's the heart of the disagreement right? |
22:40 |
phf |
signpost: well, we disagree about a bunch of other points :) |
22:40 |
signpost |
there is a traditional what-to-do that one might criticize. or not. |
22:40 |
phf |
i'll get to them |
22:40 |
signpost |
that's alright too. |
22:41 |
signpost |
o/^ what do you do with a general, when he stops being a general o/^ |
22:41 |
phf |
but then how did you reconcile those fibs?? i have a framework for it |
22:41 |
phf |
i have a literary baggage that lets me follow an aquirre, despite the fact that he's claiming that he can literally will the birds to fall off the trees |
22:42 |
signpost |
at the time? I thought he was consciously propagandizing. |
22:42 |
signpost |
as I suggested above. |
22:42 |
phf |
but you were ok with being propagandized back then? |
22:44 |
signpost |
as I recall I stayed out of the business dealings of people who weren't me. |
22:45 |
signpost |
and stopped what I was doing for a few weeks to try and salvage what of the wot there was. |
22:45 |
signpost |
building deedbot etc. |
22:45 |
signpost |
one guy being loudly wrong becomes more costly the more that guy declares himself monarch of a republic. |
22:46 |
signpost |
and as it happened, the more worthless of the bunch appeared to end up on the assbot end of the schism, so what to make of that? |
22:46 |
signpost |
or perhaps one disagrees. |
22:47 |
signpost |
I suppose I saw him as covering his ass, and allowed it. I can accept the criticism that it was a mistake. |
22:47 |
phf |
yeah, man |
22:48 |
phf |
like there was no inherent animosity in my perspective, that is i didn't think twice about "we'll rule over the americas" claims, because it's such a trope, and not inherently malicous one |
22:49 |
signpost |
sounds very much like "I never believed it" which is what I said also. |
22:49 |
signpost |
your don quixote is also protecting himself from the shame that the world has no place for him. |
22:50 |
phf |
have you read don quixote? |
22:50 |
signpost |
no, I'm going on your usage. |
22:50 |
signpost |
you're excusing the man for living in his own delusions because it was rendered beautifully by someone you enjoy. |
22:51 |
signpost |
but criticizing me for seeing him as delusional and not caring as much then as I do now. |
22:52 |
phf |
signpost: don quixote was an analogy, i said it was a trope, because it's part of human condition rather than "somebody wrote once" |
22:53 |
phf |
what i am criticizing is that your perspective the way you presented it was anti-, rather then pro-, and it's a pretty big anti- |
22:53 |
phf |
the point of "i never believed it" is usually to highlight that the thing was bad, and you knew it was bad all along |
22:54 |
signpost |
didn't think it was bad at the time. thought it was the toupe on an otherwise pretty smart dude. |
22:54 |
phf |
where's i won't even say something like that, i believe that group cohesion relies on shared delusions |
22:54 |
signpost |
looking back, seeing it as more foundational to the dysfunction. |
22:54 |
phf |
*say something like "i never believe it" |
22:56 |
phf |
e.g. believing that "tomorrow we will rule america" makes you act as if you would, who the hell knows maybe we will? tomorrow? hell yeah! to the barricades! etc. |
22:58 |
phf |
i mean mp wasn't the only one constructing delusions, somebody (i forgot who) had the "fbi at the door" running story, asciilifeform claimed every network disruption was done by feds (*i'm exagerating for comedic effect) |
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22:58 |
phf |
was it bingoboingo with the fbi at the door? |
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22:58 |
signpost |
the only difference here is I'm saying the experiment has been run, and not just here. |
22:58 |
signpost |
we see the same things. |
22:59 |
signpost |
would be useful to pull apart ambition from fact here. |
22:59 |
signpost |
there's nothing false about ambition necessarily. |
23:00 |
signpost |
where ambition becomes lie is the declaration being the whole of the work. |
23:00 |
signpost |
"Mission Accomplished" |
23:06 |
signpost |
phf: how about "I will conquer the commodity hosting business from a country with half a pipe" for delusion? meaning no jab at anyone. |
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23:06 |
signpost |
we'd probably agree that shared constructs are required to form a group. I'm not sold on shared grandiose vision. |
23:07 |
phf |
signpost: i don't think that was a delusion at all! the "conquer" part is a motivator, but the "half a pipe" was only discovered in the process. certainly nobody spoke up, /i/ never spoke up, because it just didn't occur to me. certainly not as a strong objection |
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23:08 |
signpost |
the guy picked that as the hill to die upon, recall. |
23:08 |
phf |
honestly i think pizaro was a whicked cool project and hats off to bingoboingo for doing it |
23:10 |
signpost |
really not the point I'm hitting upon. it was difficult and they did a good job pulling it off. |
23:10 |
phf |
it's gumptious, there was all kinds of drama but also practical shit that needed to happen, and did |
23:10 |
signpost |
explain to me how this was the brainchild of a man of srs bsns with the amount of btc he claimed. |
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23:11 |
signpost |
sure, boss said go do this hard thing, and they did. now what. |
23:12 |
signpost |
they can feel good in that they accomplished it; there's no question about that. |
23:12 |
phf |
is that a rhetorical explain? because i was about to :> |
23:13 |
signpost |
don't grok the question |
23:13 |
signpost |
I'm not being sarcastic. |
23:13 |
signpost |
I'm saying that the next time somebody comes with a nice hat, classical education, and tiddies in tow with grand ideas, I'm going to go back to what I was doing. |
23:13 |
phf |
you said "explain to me", so i'm asking is that a rhetorical device or? |
23:14 |
signpost |
oh, sorry, go ahead. |
23:15 |
phf |
ok, so i'll now need to provide my own framing, "the how of tmsr" the way i understood it at the time |
23:16 |
signpost |
I will have to run soon, so at least that will give ya some uninterupted space to say. |
23:16 |
* |
signpost will reply this evening |
23:17 |
phf |
mp made it very clear that he's not willing to be a mecenate, and that he would, at best, maybe invest some money into republican projects, which in itself ought to be seen as a charity |
23:19 |
phf |
the early republic, and come to think of it, it might predate your time, had at least a bit of "school of mp" thing going |
23:21 |
phf |
that is again, and you can agree with this or not, but this was mp's explicit position, was a kind of charity where he taught his approach to life, to those willing to learn |
23:25 |
phf |
so the republic, the way i saw it, was not supposed to be to mp's financial benefit in the short term, nor was it going to be funded by him. |
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23:26 |
phf |
it was a forum, where by following certain principles that we establish for ourselves we'll be able to solve that framing problem that you brought up |
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23:28 |
phf |
now we can go into the weeds of how, but for the purposes of this elaboration i'll keep it short, and only mention what i think is a representative subset of mp's pragmatic answers to "how" |
23:32 |
phf |
acquire as much btc as you possibly can by any means possible, e.g. sell all your assets and invest them into btc, get a bunch of fiat debt and buy btc, if you have nothing to sell and you can't take on debt, then spend most of your paycheck (i believe one of the articles said %90 or whatever) on btc for some period |
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23:35 |
phf |
step two was to then move to a cheap, dodgy and preferably tropical country, obv with all that btc in tow. if you have debt that you're reneging on, then you're also "running away", but the idea doesn't change |
23:37 |
phf |
step three is to then establish a kind of meet wot presence in your country of choice, primarily establishing a local btc exchange process for yourself |
23:37 |
phf |
*meat |
23:40 |
phf |
so obv depending on how much btc you have in tow you either live in a mansion with slaves or you find the cheapest room/etc bb style, at this point presumably and if you planned well you have for all practical purposes an infinite runway. you live in your shack or whatever, periodically cashing in btc, indefinitely. now that's kind of like the baseline: you are now free to participate inthe btc economy, or republican economy |
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23:40 |
phf |
specifically |
23:42 |
phf |
at which point you build a business, that relies on the republican infrastructure, following the republican way, etc. pgp contracts, irc for comms, blog for presence, etc. |
23:44 |
phf |
now what your business actually is is sort of your business. some of it was emergent from the needs of the republic (e.g. deedbot), some of it was suggested by mp. you're basically doing a full startup, with the above requirements and realities in mind |
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23:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101795 << iirc he had (by all appearances) bona fide fbi at the door. (and then reprieved somehow) |
23:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 18:57:03 phf: was it bingoboingo with the fbi at the door? |
23:46 |
phf |
that's it, that's the whole mp tmsr plan, and i think it /was/ solid af. |
23:46 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101802 << from asciilifeform's pov, this was 'beginning of end' |
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23:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 19:04:21 signpost: phf: how about "I will conquer the commodity hosting business from a country with half a pipe" for delusion? meaning no jab at anyone. |
23:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-31 23:23:35 asciilifeform: per asciilifeform's lights, e.g piz was a suicide mission, already a product of 'must succeed the mp way, with human torpedo , or doesn't count' , the correct solution to 'hosting sux' was p2pism and asciilifeform noted as much at the time |
23:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101804 << not exactly 'in the process' -- was already known the whole place had precisely 1 usable dc before BingoBoingo signed contract |
23:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 19:06:07 phf: signpost: i don't think that was a delusion at all! the "conquer" part is a motivator, but the "half a pipe" was only discovered in the process. certainly nobody spoke up, /i/ never spoke up, because it just didn't occur to me. certainly not as a strong objection |
23:53 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-11#1101831 << this is interesting to think about again in light of recent years , where reich succeeded quite well at preventing 'to the moon'(tm) |
23:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-11 19:38:48 phf: so obv depending on how much btc you have in tow you either live in a mansion with slaves or you find the cheapest room/etc bb style, at this point presumably and if you planned well you have for all practical purposes an infinite runway. you live in your shack or whatever, periodically cashing in btc, indefinitely. now that's kind of like the baseline: you are now free to participate inthe btc economy, or republica |
23:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-19 13:03:00 asciilifeform: the reason why various 2010s 'they'll ban goxes!' prognoses (incl. asciilifeform's) came to nuffin, is that turns out goxes are a very effective instrument of exchrate control, and therefore quite valuable to the reich. |
23:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-09 13:14:02 asciilifeform: reich succeeded in jacking up btc-usd rate by flooding goxmarket w/ papercoin; after which exchrate stiffly correlated with all other reich paper. |
23:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-10-31 23:04:14 asciilifeform: gotta keep lights on until the quasi-mythical 'victory day' when exch rate grows that new 0 |
23:54 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere BingoBoingo |
23:54 |
dulapbot |
BingoBoingo last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-02-28 12:49:43: In the past month US down ~19% versus Brasil's Real, 5.3% versus Peso Uruguay |
23:54 |
asciilifeform |
^ hey BingoBoingo , wakeup! |
23:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-04-27 11:55:24 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you dun intend to renew your subscription, plox to gpggram re: snailmail addr for return of yer colo machine. |
23:55 |
phf |
asciilifeform: ftr the "plan" was in place when 1btc was <$1000, in fact "sell all your shit now and move" comedically came out couple of months before 1btc became $8000 for the first time |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
phf: right, iirc '17 |
23:56 |
asciilifeform |
29 jun '17 |
23:56 |
asciilifeform |
hm notquite right |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
usd-btc ~2.5k on that day. |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
possib. correct re 'couple mo later' tho |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
still is interesting q, how many folx 'took suitcase and ran to mexico' w/ xx btc, which nao -- running dry |
23:59 |
asciilifeform |
'market can stay irrational longer than you stay solvent'(tm)(r)(c) |