Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-05-15 | 2022-05-17 → ↓
00:14 signpost each successive reflash makes the next one cost less.
00:14 signpost they're being trained into total submission, working great.
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
01:29 verisimilitude Imagine if all transistor manufacturers produced identical FPGA designs with a standard format.
~ 3 hours 9 minutes ~
04:38 scoopbot New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: A Review of ``The Cuneiform Tablets of 2015'' by Long Tien Nguyen and Alan Kay
↖
~ 2 hours 32 minutes ~
07:11 vex http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-13#1102393 probably the coolest thing I ever saw was a meteorite that propagated ball lightning. very unusual
07:11 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-13 15:21:45 asciilifeform: watched folx drop jaw when realized in jr physics that electrons hardly 'move' at all in the sense given in primary school
07:13 vex http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-13#1102420 from memory, he may have been on a boat with that guy from wayne's world when some starlet fell off.
07:13 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-13 19:07:06 phf: mats: he's an american actor, popular in the 80s and 90s, who started his career as a broadway dancer, here's him performing a routine in one of his earliest movies, pennies from heaven https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fElXbJjNJQI
~ 24 minutes ~
07:37 vex o.O https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspa.2010.0409 16 years ago today
07:38 vex in which vex goes on a quest to meet his et princess
07:44 verisimilitude So instead of ``E.T. phone home'' it's ``E.T. bone vex?
07:44 verisimilitude ''
07:50 vex the fairytales of tommorrow
~ 6 hours 59 minutes ~
14:50 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
14:50 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $29548.54
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~
16:32 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-16#1102587 << asciilifeform had not previously encountered the linked piece; somewhat astonished that alan kay defined the vm not only w/out e.g. mouse, but even storage not mentioned (or is it orthogonally persistent a la 'm' ?)
16:32 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-16 00:37:04 scoopbot: New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: A Review of ``The Cuneiform Tablets of 2015'' by Long Tien Nguyen and Alan Kay
16:32 asciilifeform verisimilitude: did he ever post a runnable src? or only the vapour ? ( tried, not found any )
16:35 * asciilifeform not even touching the lul where lifelong smalltalk advocate decided to 'bequeath to archaeologists'... the 'c machine', complete with buf overflows etc
↖
16:40 asciilifeform funny how the 'long now'(tm)(r) folx, fixated on e.g. 'how to bury radwaste so future sad stone age types won't dig it up' instead of burying cmachine with it, obsessed with preserving
16:40 verisimilitude The goal, asciilifeform, is to host a Smalltalk image, and so orthogonal persistence may be the idea there.
16:41 asciilifeform radwaste will decay after mere 1e5y; cmachine will continue enstupidating and killing
16:42 asciilifeform verisimilitude: is left a mystery for the reader, no src afaik anywhere, not of the vm, not of the smalltalk etc
16:42 verisimilitude I like that we agree on the taken approach being nonsensical.
16:42 verisimilitude The idea is neat, but I trivially improved it with but a little thought.
16:43 asciilifeform apropos incidentally, re the faux-'simplicity' of the offered machine.
16:43 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-14 11:13:17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102450 << indeed interesting. author's 'anti-minimalist' arguments are reminiscent of naggum's imho
16:44 asciilifeform ( or recall the very similar lulz of the 'urbit' people )
16:44 verisimilitude I considered mentioning Urbit, yes.
16:44 asciilifeform the 'simplicity', where does it go once someone actually tries to write programs for $machine.
16:45 asciilifeform somehow one 'isn't supposed to ask'
16:45 verisimilitude I may add a small paragraph mentioning Urbit later still.
16:46 verisimilitude This is his solution to ``How may I write high-level programs?'' and I'll reflect on how it is odd for a man who usually has such good ideas about computing to believe such a shallow low-level be required.
16:47 asciilifeform 'simplicity' where one has merely pushed the complexity to the user, is reminiscent of the 20th c approach to factory effluent, where 'dump it in the river, let someone else deal with it'
16:47 asciilifeform is how e.g. unix 'simplicity' went
16:48 verisimilitude No, UNIX is when they thought ``This effluent tastes great; let's share it!'' and were sad they couldn't sell it.
16:50 asciilifeform 'the turing tarpit, where everything is possible, but nothing of interest is easy'(tm)(r)
16:54 verisimilitude They choke to death while eating the tar long before it would entrap them.
16:56 verisimilitude I like my approach to this idea: Storing large amounts of passive data which could be viewed easily, and telling some archaeologist in clear language how to bring them to life with just a little code.
17:02 asciilifeform 'help archaeologists' types imho massively missing the point. what little was of any worth in computing already lost in ocean of liquishit, and only mere ~30y after the fact.
17:03 asciilifeform ( or take e.g. the near-total loss of usenet archives .)
17:13 verisimilitude Sure.
17:28 verisimilitude I can't imagine the Smalltalk bytecode be particularly complex; he could've used that directly here.
17:36 verisimilitude Say, asciilifeform, I think I'll later augment my review. I just noticed something else: He didn't use Brainfuck as the language; it's even easier to describe; I wonder why.
17:44 asciilifeform verisimilitude: cmachine victims invariably fail to grasp why brainfuck funny (i.e. takes their disease to its logical conclusion)
17:44 asciilifeform alan kay in old age apparently brainrotted into the entirely typical condition of such
17:45 verisimilitude Brainfuck does have practical mathematical uses, but it's generally useless, yes.
17:46 verisimilitude I'll mention, asciilifeform, I have a problem with ``short-circuiting'' when I look at such things.
17:46 asciilifeform verisimilitude: 'use' is obv. for folx to show off 'cleverness'. 'puzzle language'. what not errybody understands is that c/unix in fact optimized for similar 'use'.
17:47 asciilifeform verisimilitude: hm?
17:47 verisimilitude I looked at Chifir and noticed it was ``von Neumann'' and incredibly wasteful, and mostly stopped thinking about it after hitting those two.
17:48 verisimilitude I tend to ``short-circuit'' like this when looking at something incredibly flawed.
17:48 asciilifeform how is this 'problem' ?
17:49 verisimilitude Thus, I can be awfully surprised in a discussion such as this when someone mentions yet other issues. It's a strange feeling.
17:50 verisimilitude Still, this is some of the value in having discussions with fellow humans.
17:51 * asciilifeform had alan kay filed under 'surrendered, like sussman'. apparently not mistakenly.
17:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-10 21:23:36 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-10#1101065 << not since abolition of 'sicp' at any rate
17:52 * asciilifeform recently discovered that sussman has been reduced to teaching at asciilifeform's local shithole, 15min walk from desk. contemplated knocking on his door, asking 'hey how's it to be a quisling', but can't be arsed..
↖
17:52 verisimilitude Do it and write about it.
17:53 * asciilifeform in pile of over9000 'to do' lol
17:54 asciilifeform 2012 incident where similar 'asked'. anticlimactic.
17:54 verisimilitude Fine. Go visit him and mention the really cool guy who owns the verisimilitudes.net domain.
17:55 asciilifeform lol
17:55 asciilifeform ^ subj in fact answrd in comments, unusually
18:02 asciilifeform incidentally, 'chifir' rather accidentally appropriate title. 50/50 tea leaf / water, traditional drink in ru prison; invigorating for hr or 2, but aficionados eventually suffer from tooth rot and heart troubles...
18:03 verisimilitude How nice it is to now know that.
~ 3 hours 28 minutes ~
21:32 phf http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-16#1102641 << sussman now teaches at uofmd? what?
21:32 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-16 13:50:34 asciilifeform: recently discovered that sussman has been reduced to teaching at asciilifeform's local shithole, 15min walk from desk. contemplated knocking on his door, asking 'hey how's it to be a quisling', but can't be arsed..
21:38 asciilifeform phf: possibly in fact wrong sussman !
21:38 asciilifeform so strike that.
21:38 asciilifeform 'correct' sussman is g.j., this one alan.
21:39 * asciilifeform wonders whether related
21:40 * asciilifeform looks at the bio -- uninteresting
21:40 phf http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-16#1102602 << where'd you get that from? the paper, though sourceless, says that the "chifir" runtime was implemented in smalltalk, and used to run a smalltalk (though they also did a c and javascript, presumably as a poc, "in afternoon")
21:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-16 12:33:22 asciilifeform: not even touching the lul where lifelong smalltalk advocate decided to 'bequeath to archaeologists'... the 'c machine', complete with buf overflows etc
21:40 asciilifeform phf: from the instr set given there
21:41 * asciilifeform anticipated 'but it aint a cmachine, after all he says he ran a smalltalk'
21:42 asciilifeform let's paste:
21:43 asciilifeform Opcode Semantics
↖
21:43 asciilifeform 1 PC ← M[A]
21:43 asciilifeform 2 If M[B] = 0, then PC ← M[A]
21:43 asciilifeform 3 M[A] ← PC
21:43 asciilifeform 4 M[A] ← M[B]
21:43 asciilifeform 5 M[A] ← M[M[B]]
21:43 asciilifeform 6 M[M[B]] ← M[A]
21:43 asciilifeform 7 M[A] ← M[B] + M[C]
21:43 asciilifeform 8 M[A] ← M[B] - M[C]
21:43 asciilifeform 9 M[A] ← M[B] × M[C]
21:43 asciilifeform 10 M[A] ← M[B] ÷ M[C]
21:43 asciilifeform 11 M[A] ← M[B] modulo M[C]
21:43 asciilifeform 12 If M[B] <M[C], then M[A] ← 1, else M[A] ← 0
21:43 asciilifeform 13 M[A] ← NOT(M[B] AND M[C])
21:43 asciilifeform 14 Refresh the screen
21:43 asciilifeform 15 Get one character from the keyboard and store it in M[A]
21:44 asciilifeform it's a plain old 'cmachine'. (vs e.g.)
↖
21:47 asciilifeform but yes, naturally can run a smalltalk (or anyffin else) on it, is effectively the usual 'school mips'. but -- cmachine.
21:49 asciilifeform ( imho even from 'mechanical simplicity of cpu uber alles' pov, questionable -- why not 'oisc' ? )
21:51 asciilifeform ( from ^ pov inclusion of #9' and #11 extravagant -- '80s iron made do with 'egyptians' virtually without exception )
↖
21:52 asciilifeform * #9, #10, #11
21:54 asciilifeform ( again from 'simple to build from chewing gum' pov , oughta be shl, shr, binary or. )
~ 39 minutes ~
22:34 verisimilitude Something else I forgot to mention is how it closely resembles my Meta-CHIP-8 monstrosity. In any case, it's fairly uninteresting. He could've defined a system for describing objects and messages at the lowest level, instead.
← 2022-05-15 | 2022-05-17 → ↑

Random(asciilifeform) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default