| 01:36 |
phf |
... |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 01:56 |
phf |
meanwhile i got rid of gui altogether, until i figure out outstanding protocol questions |
| 01:56 |
phf |
gui is a lie |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 9 hours 41 minutes ~ |
| 11:38 |
asciilifeform |
phf: which protocol questions were you thinking about ? |
| |
↖ |
| 11:40 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019061 << asciilifeform orig. wanted absolutely nuffin to do with guiism , until barfed from irc's append-only semantics and the resulting ugh in protocol |
| 11:40 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 01:56:31 phf[awt]: gui is a lie |
| 11:40 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-12-05 21:29:00 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: 1 of the reasons 1st thing asciilifeform did when rewriting spec, was to throw out the reorder mechanism -- it not only slows propagation simply to satisfy irc frontends, but creates unholy wtf semantics that will prolly never entirely behave as anyone would expect |
| 11:41 |
asciilifeform |
( here, to be precise ) |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 12:01 |
shinohai |
gm #pest |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 12:18 |
awt |
gm shinohai |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 12:43 |
asciilifeform |
wb shinohai |
| 12:46 |
shinohai |
oh hai asciilifeform! I'm still seeing you as hearsay and not in peers list so imma ask to rekey if you have time in a few days |
| 12:49 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=or8F |
| 12:55 |
shinohai |
asciilifeform: gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID 0xB4A0455373708B0E < failed |
| 12:56 |
asciilifeform |
!!key shinohai |
| 12:56 |
deedbot |
http://wot.deedbot.org/260fa57bce677a5c04bf60ba4a75883cc1b1d34c.asc |
| 12:58 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: try this one instead |
| 12:59 |
* |
asciilifeform appears to have at least 1 obsolete key for shinohai |
| |
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~ |
| 14:11 |
signpost |
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/legal/russia-international-trade-bitcoin-january << I have a feeling this isn't going to be done in papercoin |
| |
~ 24 minutes ~ |
| 14:35 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: lol, and at same time internal ban (iirc already de-facto banned there for some yrs.) |
| 14:36 |
signpost |
sure for the poors |
| 14:36 |
signpost |
just like in china, I'm sure a particular caste has no problems using it. |
| 14:36 |
* |
asciilifeform would be quite surprised if all of this had any kinda detectable, to naked eye, effect |
| |
↖ |
| 14:42 |
asciilifeform |
anyone can use 'between consenting adults', rich or poor. but not 'retail' (which from asciilifeform's pov is already the situation in usa, with 'coin tax') |
| 14:42 |
bitbot |
(asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik there isn't even a deterministic algo for 'i need q*x coin to buy this item priced x, q >= 1.0, cuz tax' |
| 14:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 14:35:41 asciilifeform: ... the 'order buffer' otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron. |
| 14:47 |
dulapbot |
(asciilifeform) 2022-01-11 asciilifeform: i.e. is deliberately inefficient, and there is quite deliberately no deterministic method to actually guarantee that you paid 100% of what's Officially req'd |
| 14:47 |
signpost |
just got the same replay of two messages that it looks like logs.bitdash.io saw |
| 15:00 |
* |
asciilifeform also saw |
| 15:11 |
shinohai |
cosmic rays |
| 15:12 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019081 << have to disagree strongly that moving to settle international trade in BTC is a non-event |
| 15:12 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 14:36:47 asciilifeform[4]: would be quite surprised if all of this had any kinda detectable, to naked eye, effect |
| 15:13 |
signpost |
but weeee shaaall seeee |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 15:46 |
lobbes |
imo BTC is an ideal currency for sovereigns; the potential to side-step sanctions alone is large. You have to imagine heads-of-state have already been settling some international trade in BTC, though perhaps haven't specifically stated such publicly |
| |
~ 32 minutes ~ |
| 16:19 |
asciilifeform |
lobbes: not impossible, but asciilifeform suspects that not -- btc has 'bug' where 'wrong people' and 'wrong places' (from various crowned heads' pov) have most of it |
| 16:20 |
asciilifeform |
( the other pertinent 'bug' is that settlement in btc is 'too easy' and therefore cuts out the excuse to 'pay' in iou's -- recall mp's piece re the gold mountain in ro ) |
| 16:21 |
asciilifeform |
the most interesting 'bug' of course is that x btc represents e.g. y*x usd,rub,etc. and y is effectively a random number |
| 16:22 |
asciilifeform |
which can and does get trivially manipulated by reich |
| |
~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~ |
| 18:29 |
lobbes |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-23#1019161 << I think I follow. Too easy since a reich either owns the key(s) to a btc addy or doesn't, versus being able to make a claim to [http://trilema.com/2014/how-many-years-you-got/#selection-83.34-83.68|unmined gold], or whatever gdp fudging / manipulation |
| 18:30 |
lobbes |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-23#1019163 << yeah the y does seem tied to the movements of whichever mob is hitched to whichever mtgox of the month |
| 18:32 |
lobbes |
man, I swear I know the [link][legend] notation but somehow do it wrong each time lol |
| 18:33 |
shinohai |
There that's better. When do we get killfiles ? |
| 18:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 16:20:54 asciilifeform: which can and does get trivially manipulated by reich |
| 18:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 16:18:58 asciilifeform: ( the other pertinent 'bug' is that settlement in btc is 'too easy' and therefore cuts out the excuse to 'pay' in iou's -- recall mp's piece re the gold mountain in ro ) |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 19:13 |
asciilifeform |
wb lobbes |
| 19:13 |
asciilifeform |
lobbes: it's been [link][legend] since phf's orig. logger. |
| 19:14 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: have some mercy, d00d was at sea for yrs |
| 19:24 |
phf |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019062 << just the stuff that i haven't solved in my code. multistation, backlog recovery, new packet insert. that sort of stuff |
| 19:24 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 11:38:26 asciilifeform[4]: phf: which protocol questions were you thinking about ? |
| 19:24 |
asciilifeform |
a |
| 19:24 |
phf |
guism ended up providing pointless distraction, time sink and also made me sad. |
| 19:25 |
asciilifeform |
looked decent tho, from the screenshits. what was the sad ? |
| 19:25 |
phf |
i mean after playing with this stuff i came to conclusion that computing has failed :> |
| 19:26 |
asciilifeform |
a, that -- not news.. |
| 19:27 |
phf |
tk/tcl over subprocess to create a pretty text output, the whole spitoon aspect of it, the fact that we don't have smart gui libraries, the fact that the libraries that we do are multi-mb c++ monstrocities, etc. |
| 19:36 |
asciilifeform |
'smart gui' that actually worx on various os is much closer to 'mars lander' than pestron in scope, sadly |
| 19:38 |
phf |
i ported my accounting code to genera, just for the fun of it, and while the gui library is not ideal, it's damn convenient. i had similar experience when working with smalltalk/squeak in the past. everything is station operator oriented, and assumes that you're going to write lisp |
| 19:38 |
phf |
or augment other people's lisp to solve your problems, so the process of adding a little bit of gui is made as painless as possible. |
| 19:39 |
asciilifeform |
aha, cuz sane os |
| 19:39 |
phf |
not sure i even about multisystem… |
| 19:39 |
phf |
*i even care |
| 19:40 |
phf |
i'd like to first solve my own immediate problems. although by that measure i can probably just write to lispworks gui, and then not have anyone use my code ever :D |
| 19:42 |
* |
asciilifeform working on far moar modest 'canhaz portable pestron with xchat-like ui' |
| 19:42 |
asciilifeform |
and yes it's a pile of cpp. but at least loox like will not be a very tall pile. |
| |
~ 21 minutes ~ |
| 20:04 |
phf |
i also realized i want a vertical integration, but i don't want to g gabriel ladel it out of twigs and string |
| 20:05 |
asciilifeform |
phf: welcome to asciilifeform circa 2007... |
| 20:05 |
phf |
pest not as an `app`, but as a subsystem that i can integrate into other things. 'oh you want to send data from machine A to machine B. etc |
| 20:05 |
asciilifeform |
lispm-complete problem. |
| 20:07 |
phf |
it's a problem that surfaces every time i start building components.. `oh it'll just be a unix script. oh it's suddenly 1000 lines of python, so now i just want to pull the data out of it for this other script. aaand i've been fucked by unix again` |
| 20:08 |
phf |
that's why oldfags live in emacs |
| 20:08 |
phf |
but man emacs is such junk |
| 20:08 |
phf |
and so it goes |
| 20:09 |
asciilifeform |
exactly how it goes. |
| 20:09 |
* |
asciilifeform spent yrs not wanting to bake much of anyffin for precisely this reason |
| 20:09 |
asciilifeform |
esp. things that dun comfortably fit in emacs. |
| 20:10 |
asciilifeform |
( see also the summary on asciilifeform's www re subj. ) |
| 20:15 |
phf |
a certain type of github slav who has 50 projects in QT to solve all kinds of personal problems |
| 20:15 |
phf |
can't fail by calling out to c++ if all your projects are in c++ to begin with |
| 20:16 |
asciilifeform |
in apropos lulz, shithub apparently no longer lets you search if not logged in |
| |
↖ |
| 20:17 |
asciilifeform |
(evidently they're tightening the screws re scrapers) |
| 20:17 |
asciilifeform |
'opensores' but 'microshit in fact owns, dontcha fughet it' |
| 20:21 |
phf |
opensores was the trojan horse to begin with |
| 20:21 |
phf |
snsa ada pest when? |
| 20:23 |
phf |
how was it, hard to make man see truth if his livelihood depends on not seeing it |
| 20:24 |
asciilifeform |
there's a ~bottomless pit of laddel waiting for folx who 'want Right Thing' sadly |
| 20:27 |
* |
asciilifeform fighting with patently-idiotic shit like this |
| 20:27 |
* |
signpost pours more rum into his nog. |
| 20:28 |
asciilifeform |
unsurprising, cuz the lib forcibly 'lowest common denominator', combining idiocies from all common os guiisms |
| 20:32 |
phf |
i don't think laddel is even malicious (or for the matter the two guys that are peddling tmsr stuff, forgot their names), more like midwit attempt at bring oneself closer to divinity. magic charm just like the alien astronauts had! |
| 20:33 |
phf |
-20c here, almost makes up for not going to the motherland this year |
| 20:33 |
phf |
packets stuck in limbo again… |
| 20:34 |
signpost |
-4C here even |
| 20:35 |
asciilifeform |
'The men were not shown the thermometer, but that wasn’t necessary since they had to work in any weather. Besides, longtime residents of Kolyma could determine the weather precisely even without a thermometer: if there was frosty fog, that meant the temperature outside was forty degrees below zero; if you exhaled easily |
| 20:35 |
asciilifeform |
was difficult to breathe, it was sixty degrees below; after sixty degrees below zero, spit froze in mid-air. Spit had been freezing in mid-air for two weeks.'(tm)(r)(shalamov) |
| 20:36 |
asciilifeform |
( ...if you exhaled easily but in a rasping fashion, it was fifty degrees below zero; if there was a rasping and it was difficult to breathe, it was sixty degrees below; after sixty degrees below zero, spit froze in mid-air. Spit had been freezing in mid-air for two weeks.' ) |
| 20:38 |
phf |
apropos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gefkk1cO1CE |
| 20:40 |
phf |
i've been walking around in my underwear all day, , directing traffic, because even appalachians are phased. plenty of opportunity for `you merely adopted the cold, i was born in it, molded by it` etc |
| 20:40 |
signpost |
lol! |
| 20:41 |
signpost |
how can you say this and not post video, I ask. |
| 20:52 |
shinohai |
tyvm asciilifeform rekey great success! |
| 20:52 |
phf |
signpost,i have no idea, nobody thought about it until you asked. girl is used oto it at this point |
| 20:54 |
signpost |
you're just running around town in your skivvies in the cold (snow?) up there? |
| 20:55 |
signpost |
meanwhile I'm recalibrating my ick tolerance. got my bellybutton puked in the other day. |
| 21:00 |
phf |
it's a joke that goes well with the locals yes :) i cleaned the drive way in speedos and wool hat and sun glasses, went to hang out at coffee shop in shorts t-shirt and flipflops. i don't know about running around in speedos though, might be a bit too much for the god fearing crowd |
| 21:01 |
phf |
it's about 3 feet of snow here |
| 21:02 |
phf |
i'm thinking i'm going to do a plunge in the lake near the horses tomorrow |
| 21:03 |
signpost |
many years ago when I spent some time living on a ranch in western PA, it was entertaining to race cousins from the house to frozen lake and back in our swimsuits or underwear. |
| 21:03 |
signpost |
ofc slowest one got locked out until a parent intervened |
| 21:04 |
phf |
that culture is alive and well |
| 21:12 |
phf |
despite the fact that the democrats are trying to destroy it! |
| 21:14 |
signpost |
I tell you hwut. |
| 21:14 |
signpost |
in unrelated news, got my little fountain code thinger to piss a 50mb flac file over UDP to itself earlier. |
| 21:15 |
signpost |
seeing if I can package up the python version into a little command line thinger that transfers a file arg to ip:port |
| 21:15 |
signpost |
better to have a toy version at which to point and grunt for a while before trying to shoehorn into pest. |
| 21:16 |
phf |
tru |
| 21:17 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: neato! |
| 21:18 |
phf |
random protocol question, in broadcast for each counterparty station i should be making a `new` packet, essentially so that nonce gets refreshed? |
| 21:19 |
asciilifeform |
phf: errytime you encrypt, generate nonce |
| 21:19 |
phf |
right |
| 21:19 |
asciilifeform |
( for that matter, it isn't as if you can simply forward whole packet, given that its original was keyed to you ) |
| 21:20 |
shinohai |
$ticker btc usd |
| 21:20 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $16820.2 |
| 21:20 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: btw still seeing you as hearsay |
| 21:20 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: ( and last packet in AT -- 31 july, lol ) |
| 21:21 |
shinohai |
really? I'm seeing you fine now |
| 21:22 |
signpost |
shinohai coming in directly over here. |
| 21:28 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: possibly nat idiocy |
| 21:28 |
shinohai |
!!v 2AAB7D5F24E8FD2B02EFDB3C879BCE1FA8EF4B26DB4A63A34EB21C7ECCB403E2 |
| 21:28 |
deedbot |
shinohai rated unpx 1 << https://unpx.net/d4/ |
| 21:29 |
shinohai |
tyvm signpost for the deedbot updates, above long overdue ^ |
| 21:29 |
phf |
asciilifeform, i presumably have a working key with you, and i'm also not getting a direct connection |
| 21:30 |
signpost |
shinohai: yep happy to |
| 21:30 |
* |
asciilifeform recently baked a new pfsense box, wonders if nat nao 'symmetric' by default |
| 21:32 |
signpost |
also unfucked the css on wot.deedbot.org in re: graph display |
| 21:33 |
signpost |
need to change the <h4> on the homepage to read "of This One Guy in Texas" |
| 21:37 |
phf |
there used to be an old curmudgeon, i think his blog was called `fred on everything`, fred himself immigrated to mexico, married a latina and was writing proto-based articles. there's a foto of him on the blog with a cigar and a handgun. being a texas guy you need one of those photos also |
| 21:37 |
shinohai |
I feel like my client should play the "Dallas" theme song whenever a msg from signpost arrives. |
| 21:38 |
asciilifeform |
phf: i have his b00k, 'brass pole in bangkok' |
| 21:38 |
phf |
now we know how old shinohai is, and he's old |
| 21:38 |
asciilifeform |
notbad |
| 21:40 |
phf |
asciilifeform, i don't even remember what his shtick was. seemed like there used to be a handful of these guys, another was a baltimore boxer living the ghetto. they published old school blogs, and also, eventually, books. dead breed |
| |
↖ |
| 21:40 |
shinohai |
i thought i was doxxed as a boomer long ago. |
| 21:40 |
signpost |
guy can be forgiven it wasn't an AR, as I imagine they were still "banned" in that time. |
| |
↖ |
| 21:41 |
phf |
shinohai, i grew up watching dallas, because it was second huge tv show to come to post-soviet russia. the first one was `simplemente maria` |
| 21:42 |
* |
signpost admits to never having seen it |
| 21:44 |
signpost |
we did do some Walker Texas Ranger growing up tho. |
| 21:44 |
phf |
signpost, https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.617572705.1754/pp,840x830-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg |
| 21:45 |
signpost |
who dis |
| 21:46 |
signpost |
shinohai: waitaminute, at least tell me you're a mexican boomer or something |
| 21:46 |
phf |
in my mind david carradine's kung fu is the quintessential texas show. i don't know why. that and of course king of the hill, the bust syndicated tv cartoon |
| 21:46 |
signpost |
yep. mmmyep. |
| 21:46 |
signpost |
actual documentary of Midland |
| 21:48 |
phf |
mike judge is a king of character study. groening, stone&parker are hacks iin comparison |
| 21:48 |
phf |
*the king |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 22:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019199 << lafond was the bmor d00d. found via BingoBoingo. bought coupla of his b00kz also, but these turned out to be msword-mutilated pasta from his www. disappoint. |
| 22:08 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 21:40:01 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, i don't even remember what his shtick was. seemed like there used to be a handful of these guys, another was a baltimore boxer living the ghetto. they published old school blogs, and also, eventually, books. dead breed |
| 22:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019201 << over9000 folx on the net seem to fughet allabout 'this is my seekrit $weapon, unregistered with reich' when succumbing to photonarcissism and 'here's me an' my MG' on arsebook etc |
| 22:10 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-12-23 21:40:04 signpost: guy can be forgiven it wasn't an AR, as I imagine they were still "banned" in that time. |
| 22:12 |
asciilifeform |
( same folx also e.g. 'here's me an' my pile of au bars' etc. lol ) |
| 22:17 |
asciilifeform |
naodays 'any idjit can paperb00k' but sadly not 'erryidjit knows tex' so result is massive pile of piss-poorly formatted maculature (and often enuff by quasiliterates), and sits in catalogues (e.g. lulazon's) right next to 'actual' b00kz |
| 22:18 |
asciilifeform |
eye-bleeding msword maculae |
| 22:19 |
phf |
i've read my fair share of these writers, in blog form, e.g. your favorite orlol, but never was compelled to read them in book form. i figured it's unedited book spew self published using msword. why would one… |
| 22:20 |
* |
asciilifeform confirms -- unedited pasta |
| 22:21 |
asciilifeform |
(orlol fwiw has been imho 100% snoar for many yrs) |
| 22:22 |
asciilifeform |
folx who do not themselves luvv deadtree, imho oughta refrain. ( asciilifeform for instance sweated over formatting of erry pg of new spec, and still aint done, partly for this reason ) |
| 22:23 |
asciilifeform |
who the fuck wants to read straight pasta. people own printers, can print pasta themselves if they want. |
| 22:26 |
phf |
maybe i can make some MONEY with this BLOGGING business! |