04:05 |
crtdaydreams |
%wot |
04:05 |
crtdaydreams |
%wot |
| |
~ 1 hours 47 minutes ~ |
05:52 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: are you saying that 32 Opteron cores are required to decrypt Serpent at line-rate? |
05:54 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: I do not have anywhere near that. (= |
05:59 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: signpost: I regret not having purchased and devoted time toward learning LispWorks and/or Allegro Common Lisp back in college. |
05:59 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: signpost: there really seems to be no substitute. how are your experimentations of those two platforms coming along? |
06:00 |
gregorynyssa |
thimbronion: I meant to tag you as well. |
| |
~ 1 hours 52 minutes ~ |
07:52 |
* |
crtdaydreams grinding out his impl. in sbcl/android repl |
07:53 |
crtdaydreams |
haven't played around with lispwercs or any of those fancy proprietary dists. are they really worth it? |
07:55 |
shinohai |
crtdaydreams: You're using arm64 sbcl on Android? Lemme know if you get past the `save-lisp-and-die` strange. xD |
07:56 |
crtdaydreams |
shinohai: not using specifically sbcl on android, using cl-repl or whatever the existing android app is |
07:57 |
crtdaydreams |
I haven't messed around much with implementation-specific functions (and don't intend to for portability reasons) |
07:58 |
crtdaydreams |
using sbcl on desktop |
07:58 |
shinohai |
ah ok. sbcl & ecl both work great for me in termux, but you know the caveats with Android over processes, etc which kind tie hands. |
07:58 |
crtdaydreams |
ecl, aha that's what the damn things called again lolz |
07:58 |
shinohai |
*kind of |
07:59 |
crtdaydreams |
only just installed termux today, was just using ecl before to hack while cooking dinner :P |
07:59 |
crtdaydreams |
dunno if I'll need it much, it's really just ftp files back and forth |
08:00 |
shinohai |
termux nice for running a gentoo chroot when one is in the field and doesn't want to lug a lappy around. |
08:01 |
* |
crtdaydreams finds touchscreen typing insufferable for running shell, programming w/ ecl is forgivable |
08:01 |
crtdaydreams |
because of the parens and nav floating buttons |
08:02 |
crtdaydreams |
you'd need to lug around a usbc kbd or somethin to really make use of a remote chroot like that |
08:03 |
crtdaydreams |
which then "wai not laptop, bigger screen and trackpad anyway" |
08:03 |
shinohai |
I have one of those chinesium bluetooth kbds ... so vim+slimv+paredit makes tinkering on the go tolerable. |
08:04 |
crtdaydreams |
like the 40% kbds where it's a super key to type numbers etc? |
08:07 |
shinohai |
crtdaydreams: This thing, cost like $5 but suits my needs: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/KBD.jpg |
08:07 |
* |
crtdaydreams has one exactly like that, shelved |
08:07 |
crtdaydreams |
Forgot I had the damn thing tbh |
08:08 |
crtdaydreams |
battery blew up in it before got to use it for any practical purposes |
08:09 |
shinohai |
There were 2 models, the bluetooth kind and the 2.4 GHz one, I got the bluetooth one so didn't hafta fuss about with a usb dongle. |
08:09 |
crtdaydreams |
I got the dongle one, I think I used it for xbox360 keyboard at one pt |
08:10 |
crtdaydreams |
lol, but after like 3 charges the batt expanded and I couldn't put it in properly anymore so it wouldn't make contact |
08:11 |
crtdaydreams |
still would be useful for direct-connect kbd in emergency |
08:11 |
shinohai |
Yeah the batteries are straight junk, I think I got a pack of 3 replacements on Amazon that have been going strong year+ now. |
08:13 |
crtdaydreams |
yeah righto |
08:14 |
crtdaydreams |
when I looked at them I struggled to find one from a non-botnet site for <$15 |
08:14 |
crtdaydreams |
that was some ~2 years ago now |
08:14 |
crtdaydreams |
that was just for a single batt mind you |
08:15 |
crtdaydreams |
dunno if it's worth revising |
08:17 |
* |
crtdaydreams going to return to the repl now o/ shinohai |
08:17 |
shinohai |
o/ be well |
| |
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~ |
09:30 |
signpost |
gregorynyssa: I've never used one of the commercial lisps. asciilifeform and phf have, I believe. |
09:31 |
signpost |
fielded a hardware product that used clozurecl and some web services that used sbcl though. |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
09:47 |
gregorynyssa |
signpost: nice. that is much farther than I have gotten. |
09:51 |
gregorynyssa |
I have read many books and papers regarding the LISP languages without really using them. |
| |
↖ |
09:56 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform not used the commercial lisps 'in anger' (at any serious length anyway) |
09:57 |
gregorynyssa |
in anger over what? |
09:57 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: i.e. for actual work |
09:58 |
gregorynyssa |
I recall that Erik Naggum said some good things about the commercial implementations. |
09:58 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: phf used, commented at length |
10:02 |
gregorynyssa |
I remember trying to use Armed Bear Common Lisp briefly while in college. |
10:04 |
gregorynyssa |
then I read the "Thumbs Down for Clojure" post. |
| |
↖ |
10:06 |
gregorynyssa |
so much work has gone into the JVM over the years, but it remains hard to solve basic problems using that engine. |
10:06 |
gregorynyssa |
* to solve some basic problems. |
10:06 |
gregorynyssa |
IMO, if you just need TCP/UDP and file-processing, JVM is decent. |
10:16 |
gregorynyssa |
billymg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ujXn |
| |
↖ |
10:24 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112365 << The comments section of that post have always been a fave of mine, with the "Hacker" "News" apologists showing up to defend. |
10:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-07-27 10:03:55 gregorynyssa: then I read the "Thumbs Down for Clojure" post. |
10:31 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: maybe easier to understand e.g. clojurism if you realize that there were then (and still nao) 'over9000' wretches condemned to life in java salt mines; items like 'armed bear', clojure, were rather analogous to the pin-ups seen in prison cells, folx were trying to make their imprisonment slightly moar tolerable. |
10:32 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform's objection was re 'this is the Troo Modern Lisp!' etc. nonsense. |
| |
↖ |
10:41 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112373 << of course. the ejection of Java stack-traces whenever a program crashes ruins the utility of the system. |
10:41 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-07-27 10:32:08 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: asciilifeform's objection was re 'this is the Troo Modern Lisp!' etc. nonsense. |
| |
~ 40 minutes ~ |
11:21 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: rright, but afaik no one went 'hmm, i wanna write the perfect modern lisp, where shall i do it? hmm jvm'. orig. audience was folx already condemned to jvm |
11:21 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. thing was a kludge |
| |
~ 4 hours 15 minutes ~ |
15:37 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010729 << the use of "Lisp" (uppercase L, lowercase "isp") to refer to CL, Scheme, etc. collectively is a "Paul Grahamism." |
| |
↖ |
15:37 |
dulapbot |
(pest) 2022-07-27 phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, i have no idea if the man does things, i thought that particular quote was a little gem. refering to language as “LISP”, read many papers /and books/ not written any. if we had an eqv of bashorg, ought to put the quote there |
| |
~ 24 minutes ~ |
16:02 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010753 << Maclisp/MacLisp was the name of a particular language, not the class of languages. |
| |
↖ |
16:02 |
dulapbot |
(pest) 2022-07-27 phf[asciilifeform]: from my reading of relevant papers, you start seeing e.g. MACLISP refered to as MacLisp or Maclisp around 79, although in private correspondce even earlier |
16:03 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010754 << Paul Graham was not the first to use "Lisp" to refer to the class, but LISP was also prevalent until his 2000s essays, which settled the matter. |
16:03 |
dulapbot |
(pest) 2022-07-27 phf[asciilifeform]: my '84 edition of lisp machine manual refers to various lisps as "Common Lisp" "Zetalisp" "Maclisp" and in general "Lisp" |
16:04 |
gregorynyssa |
the cult-following which developed around Paul Graham and Arc shot down the usage of LISP. |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 29 minutes ~ |
16:33 |
mats |
https://www.codastory.com/newsletters/uzbekistan-internet-blackout |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
mats: not 1st time iirc |
16:36 |
asciilifeform |
mats: rather typical: in 'banana republics' (both with and 'without bananas') they dun have the fine-grained reich infrastructure for censoring twatter etc.; so fuhrer is stuck ordering the plug pulled |
16:36 |
mats |
they've shut it off at least three times this year |
16:36 |
asciilifeform |
mats: recall the famous cn response after 'tiananmen' -- 'we're a poor country, and dun have usa's fancy humane riot gear' |
16:37 |
mats |
i remember reading almost a decade ago that the internet shuts off during national university exam day |
16:37 |
mats |
which is hilarious |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
isuppose the 'modern' way to cheat is w/ pnoje in arse, rather than old-fashioned crib sheets |
16:38 |
mats |
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/before-a-high-stakes-standardized-test-uzbekistan-shut-the-whole-countrys-internet-down/375556 |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
'3 buzz ringtones, pause, followed by 5 means answer to q no.3 is 'e' or sumthinglikethat |
16:40 |
* |
asciilifeform recalls a scandal in early 2000s on usa's 'sat' exam involving conspirators w/ phones on both coasts and marked pencils smuggled into toilets |
16:40 |
mats |
and i thought i was smart putting notes in my calculator |
16:40 |
asciilifeform |
^ extra lulzy for folx who know that at that point in time the thing was already watered down into being effectively a test of 'do you have a fucking pulse' |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
for overseas folx -- this re usa 'sat', which features strictly basic arithmetic and english lang |
| |
↖ |
16:42 |
asciilifeform |
( well, and a bit of simple euclidean school problems, 'what is the missing angle in this triangle' etc ) |
16:44 |
mats |
i read that the sat exam is being changed again, with a 2h test and adaptive questions |
16:45 |
mats |
it was 4 hours when i took it |
16:45 |
asciilifeform |
iirc was mechanized in mid 2000s, but nfi what's in it nao |
16:46 |
mats |
its also optional in application packets to many universities |
16:46 |
asciilifeform |
mats: lol! what do they take instead nao? photo proving yer skin is black enuff ? |
16:47 |
mats |
grades and activities probably |
16:47 |
asciilifeform |
lulzy given how whole orig. impetus behind 'let's have a standard exam' was that schools vary |
16:48 |
asciilifeform |
afaik in erry half-civilized country there is sumthing resembling a standard entrance exam for uni |
16:49 |
mats |
demographics are changing quickly, and if trends haven't changed from four years ago when i last looked, every year high schools have steadily graduated increasingly more hispanic and black students |
16:49 |
* |
asciilifeform wonders what kinda exam in mexico |
16:50 |
mats |
who are less likely to afford university enrollment, or be competitive during enrollment |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
in usa not even much point in such exams, as unis are run as commercial orgs and 'moar meat, moar moolah' |
16:51 |
mats |
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2022/02/28/enrollment-changes-colleges-are-feeling-are-much-more-covid-19 |
16:51 |
asciilifeform |
(elsewhere , where limited # of seats, and students still get stipends, rather than paying 1e5$/y, exams) |
16:52 |
mats |
>As cited in a Wall Street Journal article, “in the next few years, two women will earn a college degree for every man, if the trend continues.” |
16:52 |
mats |
interesting |
16:52 |
mats |
https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-fall-higher-education-men-women-enrollment-admissions-back-to-school-11630948233 |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
mats: iirc u of md already ~65/35% f/m |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
casual visual inspection on street seems to confirm |
16:54 |
mats |
if only i was 18 again |
16:54 |
mats |
man |
16:55 |
asciilifeform |
not necessarily a valhalla, if mp was to be believed most of these chix may as well've'been sewed closed |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
(and the remainder are all fucking the same 6 local mp lol) |
16:56 |
* |
asciilifeform not zoophiliac, so cannot comment concretely |
17:06 |
mats |
you would destroy them emotionally |
17:07 |
mats |
"didn't you learn how to use vinegar properly? they teach this in kindergarten" followed by spitting and spanking |
| |
~ 42 minutes ~ |
17:49 |
signpost |
why so down on spanking |
17:50 |
signpost |
but no, I don't want any 18yo american bitches either, tyvm. |
| |
~ 1 hours 31 minutes ~ |
19:22 |
asciilifeform |
mats: that was mp's thing, rather than asciilifeform's, lol |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
( and iirc the queue lined up to 'get destroyed emotionally' was measured in kilometres ) |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
sadomasochism is evidently an actual thing. |
19:24 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: asciilifeform often wonders if there in fact is a 'seekrit' exodus of 'surplus' males from usa into the 'free world' |
| |
↖ |
19:24 |
asciilifeform |
( can't imagine it'd be 'on front page' if were happening ) |
19:25 |
asciilifeform |
republikflucht(tm)(r)(ddr) |
19:26 |
asciilifeform |
these folx can't ~all~ be 'escaping' into vodka/reddit. |