00:00 |
signpost |
probably oughta differentiate the political paperization (i.e. not-your-keys-not-your-coin) vs derivatives markets which yes, oughta be driving price discovery. |
00:00 |
signpost |
but yeah, I don't in principle have any problem with folks betting on the future price of bitcoin. part of the process. |
00:04 |
signpost |
even on the subject of political paperization, assets are custodied properly every day. |
00:06 |
* |
signpost will never use such a thing, but doesn't usually expect to be "the demo" regardless of which is under discussion. |
00:06 |
signpost |
that said extracting usable coins from such entities works just fine. the goxes these days are pretty quick about withdrawals. |
00:09 |
signpost |
could even be that strong money *exacerbates* the fiat-driven market cycle rather than ending it, as gambler investment banks cycle between casino assets and bitcoin. |
00:10 |
* |
signpost imagines a cycle not unlike shitcoins and bitcoin between bitcoin and stocks, real estate, whatever can be tokenized. |
00:10 |
signpost |
maybe this game isn't even a bad evolutionary filter. eat too much risk, get deaded. |
00:10 |
* |
signpost bbl |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
00:29 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072938 << imho the enemy's strategy is presently to 'raise it to stratosphere then drop outta plane' periodically. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ |
00:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 18:17:42 mats: bitcoin had no business going to 20k |
00:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-12-29 22:17:22 asciilifeform: usg's entire anti-btc strategy currently seems to reduce to 'turn it into speculative hell', lest it become the obvious go-to inflation shelter |
00:29 |
asciilifeform |
worx a+++ so far |
00:29 |
mats |
i don't think it works at all |
00:30 |
asciilifeform |
it worx in that btcusd aint monotonically tracking 'the real inflation'(tm)(r) and this effectively keeps out over9000 would-be buyers who would otherwise throw usg.stocks, real estate, etc. to junkyard and go 'full bore' btc |
| |
↖ ↖ |
00:30 |
mats |
doesn't suppress the price, it keeps breaking all time highs |
00:31 |
asciilifeform |
indeed, but on timescale of yrs |
00:32 |
asciilifeform |
whereas if yer a plebe saver, and anticipate possibly needing the fiatola at ~arbitrary time, btc volatility is perceived as lethal |
00:32 |
mats |
much is made of bitcoins as a 'democratic' phenomenon, and in some ways, it is, having started life (and gone to stratosphere) as a retail phenomenon |
| |
↖ |
00:33 |
asciilifeform |
(esp. considering that the exch rate uptick is taxes as 'income' if you -- plebe, who does not have with what to 'loss harvest' and play tax games -- sell) |
00:33 |
asciilifeform |
*taxed |
00:33 |
mats |
but that's fading, and its too bad if poor people weren't smart or early enough to hold |
00:34 |
asciilifeform |
separately from plebemarket, mega-orgs which operate on quarterly/yrly timescale also find 'too hot' on acct of the artificial volatility |
00:35 |
mats |
'bitcoin isn't for the poor' -mp |
00:35 |
mats |
short termism is intellectual poverty |
00:35 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072950 << this'd be the case if the paper products were not products of reich financial engineering, where scamola deliberately unprosecuted (in fact encouraged), and freshly printed fiatola is delivered by the traincar to the compliant perps |
00:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 18:31:56 mats: and the more paper products there are, the closer the market gets to accurately discovering the price |
00:36 |
asciilifeform |
mats: in principle asciilifeform agrees. gotta ask the q of why folx still invest in reichpaper tho rather than btc. and the volatility is inescapably part of the answer. |
00:38 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072940 << the smart/long-thinking folx, as mats in fact pointed out, aint letting go, because why would they (does it look like the printing press will perma-stop, ever? 'when hell freezes') |
00:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 18:21:56 mats: i.e. there is http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-29#1070253 but also, we know that bitcorns are extremely hoarded, and that the ratio of trade volume to liquidity is enormous compared to other assets |
00:38 |
mats |
the printing press will stop when usd has competition |
00:39 |
asciilifeform |
has competition since '09. the only meaningfully different competitor is btc. |
00:39 |
mats |
rmb,eur,jpy are relatively quickly displacing dollar dominance |
| |
↖ |
00:39 |
* |
asciilifeform doesn't distinguish at root b/w the various fiatolas |
00:39 |
asciilifeform |
some print moar atm, some less, all effectively exactly same item |
00:40 |
asciilifeform |
toiletpaper. |
00:41 |
mats |
if bitcoin is really sound money, it will eventually put a ceiling on printing or else malignant fiat debasement will occur |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
mats: what means here 'malignant fiat debasement' ? |
00:42 |
asciilifeform |
( and, separately, how does mats picture 'ceiling on printing', when reich is ~100% powered by same, for past 100+y ? ) |
00:42 |
mats |
people fleeing fiat for other assets and sound money |
00:42 |
asciilifeform |
happening for 100+y, this flight; and much of what lizards concern selves with is emplacement of minefields in the path of the fleeing |
00:43 |
mats |
reich is still flying on tailwinds of back-to-back world war winning |
00:43 |
asciilifeform |
from fdr's gold seizures to present-day antibtc shenanigans |
00:43 |
mats |
gold sucks, and it died |
00:44 |
asciilifeform |
sucked largely because vulnerable to lizarding : can't teleport it, or hide it in yer head |
| |
↖ ↖ |
00:44 |
asciilifeform |
bugs since fixed by btc |
00:45 |
asciilifeform |
the fundamental bug, however -- that it can be paperized, i.e. fraudulent 'musical chairs' promisetronic instruments passed off to the gullible as 'equivalent' to the real thing, is perhaps unfixable |
00:45 |
asciilifeform |
and is main thrust of btc control efforts afaik. |
00:45 |
mats |
sucks for the gullible, not my problem |
00:46 |
asciilifeform |
sucks to a degree for erryone, in that there is not a deterministic algo for fleeing inflatola and consequently reich continues to steam along by stealing from ~erryone |
00:47 |
asciilifeform |
(and inexpensively for reich) |
00:48 |
mats |
everyone can custody their own wallets, in principle |
00:49 |
asciilifeform |
what folx can't so much do is to actually 'live in btc', and the continued success of the paper machine is the reason why. |
00:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable. |
00:49 |
asciilifeform |
megavolatility makes conducting day-to-day biz in pure btc largely impossible for afaik anyone. |
| |
↖ |
00:49 |
mats |
sure |
00:50 |
asciilifeform |
hence wai turned into casino (for 'txers') and 'hoard' (for 'hodlers') with no '3rd option' |
00:50 |
mats |
all anyone can do is bide their time until the game changes |
00:50 |
mats |
i.e. 18-19th century style redrawing of maps |
00:51 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. until 'victory'. |
00:51 |
* |
asciilifeform 'hodl' until victory/death. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
00:53 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform's arg upstack is that btc paperization aint some kinda 'healthy ecology of price discovery' but rather organized enemy action with a clear purpose of preventing migration of day-to-day economic activity to btcism |
00:53 |
asciilifeform |
and peculiarly effective, at that, even among 'black market' folx (most of whom still rely on usd and spampaypals) |
00:54 |
asciilifeform |
what could set in motion 'victory', presently asciilifeform does not know. |
00:54 |
mats |
i get it and i don't agree, it is disorganised and it is perpetually on the back foot |
| |
↖ |
00:54 |
asciilifeform |
organizedly disorganized, lol |
00:55 |
asciilifeform |
like all other reich activity |
00:57 |
* |
asciilifeform recommends his strategy -- of conducting biz in btc strictly to fill a hodl -- to others, but not under illusion that it is generally applicable |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ |
00:57 |
asciilifeform |
a la 1940s 'buy victory bonds!'(tm)(r) |
00:58 |
asciilifeform |
it's afaik the only algo currently known for -- even partially -- 'checking out' of printola. |
00:59 |
asciilifeform |
yes, you can't 'eat' from it, must eat from 'day job'. but at least yer supplying a needed good/service to btc holders and if you live long enuff, can crack open that piggy. |
01:00 |
asciilifeform |
(or alternatively fill that of anuther supplier) |
01:00 |
asciilifeform |
operate, if you will, 'half-duplex' economy. |
| |
↖ |
01:00 |
asciilifeform |
if over9000 folx do this, before long the 'half' becomes 'full' duplex. |
| |
↖ |
01:02 |
mats |
maybe a cryptofiat pegged to bitcoins duplex economy |
01:03 |
asciilifeform |
wat's 'cryptofiat' ? |
01:03 |
asciilifeform |
(shitcoins?) |
01:03 |
mats |
yeah, tethers and stablecoins denominated in fiat |
01:03 |
asciilifeform |
from asciilifeform's pov shitcoins are simply ponzis (operated with the connivance of reich, which fails to prosecute'em) |
| |
↖ |
01:04 |
mats |
i can't imagine doing more than a fe tx per year after btc has matured, fees are too high |
| |
↖ |
01:04 |
mats |
few |
01:04 |
asciilifeform |
mats: the fees seem on-par w/ bank wire cost |
01:04 |
asciilifeform |
at any given time |
01:04 |
* |
asciilifeform never understood the 'fees too high' whines |
01:04 |
mats |
that's because the big hodlers don't move shit |
01:05 |
asciilifeform |
( ever ship, by snailmail, a bar of au, or item of equiv. value ? how was the fee ? ) |
01:05 |
mats |
and it can still cost $40-90usd when network activity is high |
01:05 |
asciilifeform |
imho this is a tired, old mikehearnism. fees are exactly right, irrespective of what they happen to be. |
01:06 |
mats |
i fully expect tx fees to hit $400-900 when 'victory' |
01:06 |
asciilifeform |
well when sandwich is 1000$ lol, then yes |
01:06 |
mats |
i don't have a problem with tx fees, its the cost to run the machine, but it'll never be within 3 magnitudes of visa |
01:06 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform's 'problem' with fees as they are is merely that they go only to miner, and not to the over9000 folx who gotta blow disk on storing 4evah the block |
01:07 |
mats |
and the floor transaction might be in the neighborhood of $10-20k |
01:07 |
asciilifeform |
the 'solution' to 'fees high', if one insists on 'solving', is for there to be over9000 signpost-style wot walletrons. |
| |
↖ |
01:07 |
asciilifeform |
instead of 'a' 'visa'. |
01:07 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. you go to yer l1 hawaladar. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ |
01:08 |
asciilifeform |
this 'problem' solved 100% by arabs in the 900s a.d. |
01:08 |
mats |
that doesn't scale |
01:08 |
mats |
whether you can trust your greengrocer with a tab is a personal matter |
01:08 |
asciilifeform |
scales enuff to power rise of islam etc |
| |
↖ |
01:08 |
asciilifeform |
and much of medieval commerce |
01:09 |
mats |
its a structural problem, western societies are mostly exceptionally low trust environments |
01:09 |
asciilifeform |
in fact , it's the only thing that scales; reich.visa dun scale (it is funded by continued theft on historically unprecedented scale, is the only reason it superficially appears solvent) |
01:09 |
mats |
lol what |
01:10 |
mats |
its said that people really know, what, 30 people? |
01:11 |
asciilifeform |
visa is powered by deliberately-enabled cc fraud, with merchants bearing the cost and passing it to konsoomer. |
01:11 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-07-13 asciilifeform: ( usgological 'economy' is structured so that the cc fraud is essential nutrient to it. hence the studious avoidance of anything even vaguely smelling of a final solution - e.g. genuine crypto, single-use cc #, etc ) |
01:11 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2018-05-22 asciilifeform: the 'they hire somebody to make proper rsa card', it's a 'fried ice' hypothetical, tho. because the cc 'fraud' is a required element of maintaining the konsoomer 'purchasing' circulation the system needs in order to live. |
01:11 |
mats |
hawala scales for people that have both money and friends, family |
01:11 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. healthy human beings. |
01:12 |
asciilifeform |
(vs 'human-lite' bioengineering waste product of the reich) |
01:12 |
mats |
but most people don't have money or friends with money |
01:12 |
asciilifeform |
that there's wat to fix. |
01:12 |
mats |
not fixable |
01:12 |
asciilifeform |
make friends or live&die in startopologyschwitz. |
01:13 |
asciilifeform |
wotronics is the logical conclusion of the 'fix'. |
01:14 |
asciilifeform |
mats: could be 'not fixable', in which case great inca devours planet3 and eventually implodes, w/ consequent reversion to stone age. pray, then, for asteroid. |
01:15 |
* |
asciilifeform prefers to believe in possibility that -- fixable. |
01:15 |
mats |
great inca is how humans will leave this crowded rock |
| |
↖ |
01:15 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
01:15 |
mats |
sad, but true |
01:15 |
asciilifeform |
mats: yer posting from 1970s or wat |
01:16 |
asciilifeform |
sad to inform mats, sovok-1 went bust, and sovok-2 soon to follow. |
01:16 |
asciilifeform |
it aint flying you or i to alpha centauri, no. |
01:16 |
mats |
resource concentration is how some guy got together a crown dispensation to crew three ships for a suicide visit over water |
01:17 |
asciilifeform |
mats: this being so, the problem is the sharp drop in quality of available human material. |
01:17 |
asciilifeform |
yesterday's crown dispensations were for rockets, today's -- for yachts. |
01:17 |
asciilifeform |
tomorrow's will be for panem et circenses simply to keep the zombies from rampaging. |
01:18 |
mats |
maybe some hero figures out and distributes how to build an 'epstein drive' with a bunch of rocks and pig iron, idk |
01:18 |
mats |
seems unlikely |
01:18 |
asciilifeform |
right, and they fly over9000 ustards to proxima centauri where they can do the fractional reserve thing again and rinse&repeat, lol |
01:19 |
asciilifeform |
mats: ever read the strugatsky brothers ? |
01:19 |
mats |
maybe ustards get their own planet, chinamen get a red planet, argentines etc |
01:19 |
asciilifeform |
( sovok-1 mega-sf writers; compl. w/ glorious communist galactic fyootoor ) |
01:19 |
mats |
nop |
01:20 |
asciilifeform |
oughta. and there's a decent brit translation of the pertinent b00x |
01:20 |
mats |
what titles should i start on? |
01:20 |
asciilifeform |
their galactic wonderworld sank & depressed in keeping w/ fate of '80s sovok |
01:22 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 'The Inhabited Island'; 'Beetle in the Anthill'; 'The Time Wanderers'; 'Snail on the Slope'. |
01:22 |
mats |
okie |
01:22 |
asciilifeform |
much rec'd. |
01:23 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
01:24 |
mats |
in book recommendations, i've been working through 'in the dragon's shadow', on china and relations with its se asian neighbors, http://asianreviewofbooks.com/content/in-the-dragons-shadow-southeast-asia-in-the-chinese-century-by-sebastian-strangio |
01:32 |
mats |
chinese dispensations are still fueling scientific progress, at any rate |
01:33 |
mats |
i.e. https://web.archive.org/web/20220104092012/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-11-02/china-climate-goals-hinge-on-440-billion-nuclear-power-plan-to-rival-u-s |
01:34 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 'we haven't gone full tard yet and intend to continue having mains current, even if with 1950s tech' is a++ but not imho correct to label 'scientific progress'. |
01:35 |
asciilifeform |
if they were building 440e9$ of working ~fusion~ stations, then yes, would say 'the chinese are bulldozing on with progress' |
01:35 |
mats |
https://apnews.com/article/space-launches-space-exploration-technology-science-business-e6420620b8a97a760125feb5c364d403 |
01:36 |
asciilifeform |
'70s called and wait their 'progress' back, lol |
01:36 |
asciilifeform |
*want |
01:36 |
* |
asciilifeform clapped also for chinese lunohod but it aint 'progress' |
01:36 |
mats |
well, you prob saw this on fusion, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/chinas-artificial-sun-reactor-broke-record-for-nuclear-fusion-180979336 |
01:37 |
mats |
its slow, what can i say, but it moves |
01:37 |
asciilifeform |
tokamak has been ~same since 1st ed. |
01:37 |
mats |
don't be such a debbie downer |
01:37 |
asciilifeform |
still can't plug into it |
01:37 |
* |
asciilifeform will clap if could ! |
01:37 |
asciilifeform |
dun see any symptom of +ev fusion tho , yet |
01:38 |
asciilifeform |
mats: dunno how old you are, but asciilifeform been reading effectively identical press releases for tokamak justabout since was oldenuff to read |
01:38 |
asciilifeform |
they dun seem to change. |
01:38 |
mats |
the chinamen are making the right moves, banning big tech opiates like always-on multiplayer games and humiliating tencent |
01:38 |
asciilifeform |
they at least seem to be keeping soviet state of art moar or less alive. |
01:38 |
asciilifeform |
which is a++. |
01:38 |
mats |
meanwhile usg is completely ignoring the d-meth proliferation problem |
01:39 |
asciilifeform |
possib. that problem oughta 'solve' in ~other~ direction |
01:39 |
mats |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-29#1070197 |
01:39 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-12-29 22:01:33 mats: on meth, https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174 |
01:39 |
mats |
one of the most important reads in 2021 on decline imo |
01:39 |
asciilifeform |
tabletop meth+xyz printer for all reich inmates, a la 'distributed defense' (how ? if knew, would say) |
01:39 |
asciilifeform |
then have all the folx who can't self-moderate od within the year. |
| |
↖ |
01:39 |
asciilifeform |
problem solved. |
01:40 |
mats |
anyway, good chat, cya |
01:40 |
asciilifeform |
'night mats |
| |
~ 2 hours 59 minutes ~ |
04:40 |
signpost |
mats: how do you square this and this? |
| |
↖ |
04:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 19:54:38 mats: i get it and i don't agree, it is disorganised and it is perpetually on the back foot |
04:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:15:35 mats: great inca is how humans will leave this crowded rock |
04:42 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072969 << recall old threads re: the reich merely allowing a few nerds into the upper caste via bitcoin to circulate fresh blood. |
04:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 19:32:47 mats: much is made of bitcoins as a 'democratic' phenomenon, and in some ways, it is, having started life (and gone to stratosphere) as a retail phenomenon |
04:43 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072983 << even ruble inflation is supposedly lower than US atm. |
| |
↖ |
04:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 19:39:24 mats: rmb,eur,jpy are relatively quickly displacing dollar dominance |
04:45 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073030 << lightning's not all wrong on this, just implemented atop segwit for no good reason. |
04:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:04:04 mats: i can't imagine doing more than a fe tx per year after btc has matured, fees are too high |
04:47 |
signpost |
a "credible threat" to pay is as good as settlement if done correctly, counterparties can ratchet forward signed proposals on a disbursement of multisig address for a long time. |
| |
↖ |
04:49 |
signpost |
also possible there's a quick, highly liquid shitcoin chain that takes the cash role. |
04:51 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073050 << if it scales large enough for a few thousand people on earth doing this, that few thousand people will conquer for a long time. |
04:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:08:32 asciilifeform: scales enuff to power rise of islam etc |
04:51 |
signpost |
honor's powerful technology |
| |
↖ |
04:51 |
signpost |
scales further than the honorable with the sword |
04:51 |
signpost |
but I'll be dead well before the walmart era ends, I'm sure. |
04:56 |
* |
signpost has considered that chinese fentanyl, meth, etc is in a confucian paternalistic way doing us a favor, in exactly this regard. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
04:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:39:48 asciilifeform: then have all the folx who can't self-moderate od within the year. |
| |
~ 9 hours 52 minutes ~ |
14:49 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
14:49 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $43258.63 |
14:49 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
14:49 |
watchglass |
Polling 14 nodes... |
14:49 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
14:49 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.118s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
14:49 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718823 (Operator: whaack) |
14:49 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.304s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718421 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.328s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718580 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.646s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 |
14:49 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.488s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 |
14:50 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
14:56 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073129 << well it aint hyperinflating. ru runs on moar old-fashioned 'eastern despotism' rather than west reich's printola firehose. |
14:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 23:43:50 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072983 << even ruble inflation is supposedly lower than US atm. |
14:57 |
asciilifeform |
(phunphakt: in ru 'free & clear' home ownership rate is ~90%.) |
14:58 |
asciilifeform |
granted, the typical owned property is a 2-3room flat, not palace. |
15:03 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073133 << imho attempts to make 'bitcoin w/ cheaper tx' mechanically are wrongheaded ('you get whatcha pay for') and the Right Thing solution is informal (i.e. wotronic) systems |
| |
↖ |
15:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 23:47:06 signpost: a "credible threat" to pay is as good as settlement if done correctly, counterparties can ratchet forward signed proposals on a disbursement of multisig address for a long time. |
15:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:07:29 asciilifeform: the 'solution' to 'fees high', if one insists on 'solving', is for there to be over9000 signpost-style wot walletrons. |
15:07 |
asciilifeform |
signpost's wallet was a++ example in prolly moar ways than was obv. at the time -- for instance, our drowned nutter was rather fond of trashy subscription www gamez, and asciilifeform bought his subscriptions (w/ paypalisms), ate coin via signpost's wallet, worked a++ and 'ecologically clean' |
15:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073137 << most powerful 'tech' there ever was. |
15:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 23:51:06 signpost: honor's powerful technology |
15:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073140 << fwiw domestically they solved opium in the old-fashioned eastern despotism way -- heads-off |
15:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 23:56:16 signpost: has considered that chinese fentanyl, meth, etc is in a confucian paternalistic way doing us a favor, in exactly this regard. |
| |
~ 1 hours 49 minutes ~ |
16:59 |
billymg |
i enjoyed the reading the discussion last night. imo the elephant in the room with 'wot-powered layer 2' is that, according to reich law at least, it is totally illegal. iirc this is the reason signpost shut down the deedbot wallet |
16:59 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-15 10:03:38 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073133 << imho attempts to make 'bitcoin w/ cheaper tx' mechanically are wrongheaded ('you get whatcha pay for') and the Right Thing solution is informal (i.e. wotronic) systems |
16:59 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: justabout errything worth doing with btc is 100% reich-illegal. |
17:00 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: right, aware |
17:01 |
asciilifeform |
even things not worth doing. e.g. run cpu miner for a year, mine a satoshi's worth, yer an outlaw unless you reported 'gain' |
17:01 |
asciilifeform |
'illegal integers'(tm)(r). aint just for 1337 w4r3z anymoar! |
17:02 |
asciilifeform |
in fact the whole pretense that there are reich.permitted activities worth doing with bitcoin is lulzy. |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
imho ~whole point of bothering with the extremely gnarly rube goldberg apparatus is to piss on the reich in various ways. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: worth noting that it's a rather sickly, anemic elephant. |
17:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-13 14:22:28 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik the only presently effective snoopage happens at the direct gox level |
17:17 |
asciilifeform |
( see e.g. also. ) |
17:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-17 19:39:26 asciilifeform: for instance, afaik 100% of 'illicit exchange man' arrests to date, were 'controlled buys' a la dope. i.e. intrinsically impossible in a solid wot context. |
17:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-17 19:41:37 asciilifeform: ( usg tradition moar or less ~requires~ a 'controlled buy', i.e. executed by a dedicated stoolie, to convict a contrabandist. and not merely 'd00d admitted on his www that he once sold a bitcoin'. e.g. mp admitted that he once killed and ate a man, but observe that no one tried to arrest him for it ) |
17:19 |
* |
asciilifeform rewriting large chunk of spec, will bbl |
| |
~ 55 minutes ~ |
18:14 |
mats |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073124 << i think of usg and ccp as separate pyramids |
18:14 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 23:40:15 signpost: mats: how do you square this and this? |
18:16 |
mats |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073140 << the problem with this kind of thinking is that the new meth literally induces mental illness, and quickly, it is a completely next level social contagion compared to opis and fent. the atlantic article is a long read, but worth it |
18:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 23:56:16 signpost: has considered that chinese fentanyl, meth, etc is in a confucian paternalistic way doing us a favor, in exactly this regard. |
18:17 |
mats |
d-meth abuse isn't really treatable in the same manner, rehab is even more ineffective, and people are permanently changed after a handful of uses |
| |
↖ |
18:20 |
mats |
>Treating them was daunting. Despite years of research, science has found no equivalent of methadone or Suboxone to help subdue meth cravings and allow people addicted to the drug a chance to break from it and begin repairing their life. And, like many others I spoke with, Jobe found that the human connection essential to successful drug treatment was almost impossible to establish. “It takes longer for them to actually be here |
18:20 |
mats |
mentally,” Jobe said. “Before, we didn’t keep anybody more than nine months. Now we’re running up to 14 months, because it’s not until six or nine months that we finally find out who we got.” Some can’t remember their life before jail. “It’s not unusual for them to ask what they were found guilty of and sentenced to,” she said. |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~ |
20:10 |
signpost |
yeah, I can see how this is like being flooded by refugees if they linger rather than die. |
20:15 |
signpost |
"Portland, Oregon, began seeing the flood of meth around 2013." << I got to see the rapid decay of portland first hand while living there. |
20:26 |
signpost |
"Until we begin to look out for the most vulnerable among us, there's no reason to expect them to abate." << figured it was going to close with something like this. |
20:27 |
signpost |
imho the blunter and more realistic rendering is that a peasantry isn't capable of deciding its own use, and the american answer has for a generation or two been "nothing". |
20:28 |
signpost |
not a bad article, but the culture for which it was written is incapable of making the decisions that would solve this problem. |
20:29 |
whaack |
howdy signpost |
20:29 |
signpost |
hey whaack, how goes? |
20:31 |
whaack |
in trbexplorer news i think i'm going to wrap up with what i have now, noteable missing features from the genesis will be : a well tested push tx, up-to-date blocks (trbexplorer currently sits 2 blocks behind the tip, which is dangerously close, given that all reorgs are manual, and atm there is not even a system to detect for reorgs), and a system for viewing transactions in the mempool |
20:32 |
whaack |
signpost: it's alright, but my rsi has been flaring up a bit (better than yesterday, but overall on a downward trend) and it is hot here today, so the discomfort level is pretty high |
20:35 |
signpost |
sucks, iirc you're a guitar player too eh? |
20:35 |
whaack |
yeah, and that's what brought back the flares |
20:35 |
* |
signpost has had to put the thing down now and again. |
20:35 |
signpost |
yeah |
20:35 |
whaack |
i was doing quite well, i would say 80% pain reduction, and i started playing again |
20:36 |
signpost |
I put pretty light strings on the strat, fun for bends etc too |
| |
↖ |
20:36 |
whaack |
the pain from playing the guitar comes the day after, while i was playing i felt a little discomfort but it was very minimal |
20:37 |
whaack |
i use medium tension nylon strings |
20:45 |
whaack |
on another topic, i met a guy who is setting up a "boutique" btc miing operation in CR |
20:46 |
signpost |
a hashrate-for-rent sort of thing? |
20:48 |
whaack |
yeah, idk yet if he's doing the small PMB game or if he's just selling a datahouse for a miner or what |
20:48 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-15#1073207 <<< If you aren't using Ernie Ball Slinky Strings (tm) on yer strat, are you really playing? |
20:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-15 15:36:44 signpost: I put pretty light strings on the strat, fun for bends etc too |
20:50 |
whaack |
i have the alergic 'it's a scam' response to mining operations, i once threw $300 in the fire for a PMB when i first learned about bitcoin |
20:50 |
whaack |
they gave me drops of satoshi and then cut off the faucet |
20:50 |
whaack |
no idea to ever know if they actually had machines |
20:51 |
signpost |
shinohai: been doing those slinky cobalt strings |
20:51 |
signpost |
they have this sort of shimmer to them I like |
20:52 |
signpost |
whaack: yeah, I figure just buy btc directly with the money |
20:52 |
signpost |
I'd only get involved with mining if I were one of the owners of the mine, and even then only if I also had an under-market electricity connection |
20:53 |
whaack |
signpost: i am intersted in being a part of a mien where the owner is in my L1 WOT and as a cohort the mine is able to produce 1 block per year, as an independent pool |
20:54 |
whaack |
mine* |
20:54 |
thimbronion |
successfully compiled smalpest |
20:54 |
whaack |
thimbronion: grats, but what is smalpest |
20:54 |
signpost |
jonsykkel's impl |
20:54 |
thimbronion |
jonsykkel's pestron |
20:54 |
whaack |
ah great |
20:55 |
signpost |
whaack: and yeah, I can see the benefits of wot being able to squeeze out own blox now and then |
20:57 |
whaack |
signpost: this may be a way more interesting idea when the price of btc goes up relative to the block reward |
20:58 |
whaack |
err by way more interesting i mean way more economically feasible |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-15#1073190 << can't resist to ask, tho : given that d is the bioactive isomer, why would columned meth have such supposedly spectacularly diff effect from 2x dose of racemic ? |
21:01 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-15 13:17:34 mats: d-meth abuse isn't really treatable in the same manner, rehab is even more ineffective, and people are permanently changed after a handful of uses |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
( l does ~0 other than unstuff the nose; at one pt was even sold otc in usa, asciilifeform recalls seeing it on shelf ) |
21:02 |
* |
asciilifeform paging ghost of laddel!111 |
21:02 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere gabriel_laddel |
21:02 |
dulapbot |
gabriel_laddel last seen in #trilema on 2018-05-02 00:59:35: F- |
21:03 |
asciilifeform |
mats: possib. moar interesting aspect is that meth is a performance dope, and in some professions afaik not entirely 'optional' (e.g. long-haul trucking). prolly explains some of the 'difficulty of kicking' |
21:05 |
asciilifeform |
the 'permanently changed' thing may even be that the eater (an overworked 'blue collar') simply realizes that 'yes it is possible to be awake' |
| |
↖ ↖ |
21:06 |
asciilifeform |
sorta like how 1 reason why opiates mega-phenomenon in usa is that large % of population has permanent pain all over body from decades w/out access to medical attn |
21:06 |
asciilifeform |
they take a pill and 'hey it is possible to not be in pain'. cure that. |
21:07 |
* |
signpost suspects working multiple jobs is indeed the "gateway" to uppers for many, or jobs with long hours, yes |
21:07 |
signpost |
pleb gets knocked from two jobs to three to stay alive, finds crank |
| |
↖ ↖ |
21:08 |
signpost |
helps also with the void of meaninglessness of no job |
21:10 |
verisimilitude |
I've now found this: https://github.com/mermaid-js/mermaid |
21:11 |
verisimilitude |
This actually looks rather nice, but its JavaScript nature will likely disqualify it for us. |
21:12 |
* |
signpost hasn't gotten mad at graphviz yet |
21:22 |
verisimilitude |
I'm to understand using deedbot was a way of getting a promise of coins, without the need to send them yet, right? |
21:22 |
verisimilitude |
How is this different from ``hammering in nails with a microscope'', asciilifeform? |
21:23 |
verisimilitude |
If trust be the answer, how's that different from those investors in the article, besides trusting the wrong person? |
21:27 |
whaack |
verisimilitude: what article are you referring to? |
21:28 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: "getting a promise of coins" is a bizarre definition of an invoicing system |
21:28 |
signpost |
but yes, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. |
21:28 |
verisimilitude |
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939 |
21:32 |
signpost |
please excuse while I update ratings. |
21:32 |
signpost |
!!v 4F292A7AAC8EB262DA3DAA0B702BA1339582BBDC502D919EC410D81E701289D3 |
21:32 |
deedbot |
signpost rated adlai 2 << old-timer lisper |
21:32 |
signpost |
!!v 1548670A39F6C57E6A94EA47FA8926FAA0DF9804357705FF1DED2A76DB33E716 |
21:32 |
deedbot |
signpost updated rating of asciilifeform from 1 to 5 << honorable member of former republic, writes at loper-os.org, ideological inspiration to many of us, inventor of pest protocol and author of P |
21:32 |
signpost |
!!v 26CFB5F50022934F1507AC5FA7DEC7B9AB255875C24DF5474C5E67DE82864E4E |
21:32 |
deedbot |
signpost rated billymg 3 << competent www dev, writes at billymg.com, runs logs.bitdash.io |
21:32 |
signpost |
!!v 38F4DB4537BBB67478B1FF6BDF623F7B199B540A551B1CF8D2240982F7505EEA |
21:32 |
deedbot |
signpost updated rating of BingoBoingo from 1 to 4 << honorable member of the former republic. escaped the reich before most. |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v 36052397816FB790CE042ECF93C8B25873C9009C853109CAE72DAD1395226731 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated cgra 2 << FFA and TRB work. |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v 6DB040667298D662B7CD665FCA00208C0B3CEBE954D37FA7D8AA9C52C50411D0 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated danielpbarron 2 << old timer, honorable, if one-dimensional these days. |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v 32B26FDB61DB8B6469AF7CB07E3AFD4B0710D1C13B19829D0D6447F190251B6B |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated jonsykkel 2 << developer of smalpest at http://zzz.st/progz/ |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v C049A6672E5EB17DA836BFA610D78EB535D30A6766DD52D37259D8036C4BBEE4 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost updated rating of mats from 1 to 2 << old-timer |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v 8A406421435EA0F9BC425E1634519F1AF6AF0488C9E60844BF1B2C2F6B47A201 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated mod6 4 << honorable member of the former republic, much work on TRB. |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v 47C70D39BBA6607FBB8A9FFB8372D937380FD86D8D35FF2D44B3459F4D8C0809 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated PeterL 2 << old-timer |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v C9969F0D75E060F40703AE9575B2D9F1451DDC6094E2CF7B85509AD874AD72D0 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated shinohai 3 << republican old-timer and once writer for qntra |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v 78A86A684F3714BA601CA1EB3157AA38624C8AE35969F3DEB6E6F7AE1497BF71 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost rated verisimilitude 2 << author of verisimilitudes.net |
21:33 |
signpost |
!!v C7B28B5350F123F2D81EE2E0F028865B4A66A0CC81DDC872ECFD567C59BF4323 |
21:33 |
deedbot |
signpost updated rating of whaack from 1 to 3 << old-timer, author of ztkfg.com, ongoing work on block explorer |
21:33 |
signpost |
done |
21:36 |
verisimilitude |
Know I'm pleased with my rating. |
21:36 |
verisimilitude |
Now that I've spent a few years here, I really should generate a better key and rate you. |
21:37 |
whaack |
verisimilitude: yeah i don't see your point re deedbot wallet being related to a poor use of bitcoin, i think every1 using the wallet knew exactly the risk they were taking on by having signpost be their counterparty, yes his service is the same as a 'webwallet' but it's a webwallet where we had the ceo in our l1 and we used for a tiny portion of our coins. |
21:37 |
signpost |
feel free to send me a signature with the old key of new and I'll update. |
21:37 |
verisimilitude |
I've an old Thinkpad, which should be free from the Intel ME, that I can use. |
21:38 |
verisimilitude |
I just need to take it apart and remove its wireless hardware first, and then install a decent GNU/Linux on it. |
21:38 |
verisimilitude |
So it's what, hammering in nails with a ruler instead, whaack? |
21:39 |
signpost |
might as well gut it of speakers, mic, camera, etc while in there |
21:39 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: perhaps macroexpand. do you mean that it's working around flaws in bitcoin to use such a system? |
21:40 |
verisimilitude |
No; I simply saw similarities. |
21:41 |
signpost |
considering block size, regardless of what one chooses at the beginning, one can always imagine ways to increase transaction throughput such that it's insufficient. |
21:43 |
signpost |
one can either bloat block size such that it impacts decentralization or permit systems which invest trust in a particular operator. |
21:43 |
signpost |
I won't say a third doesn't exist, but if it does, has not been invented. |
| |
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~ |
22:45 |
* |
asciilifeform wouldn't 'hold breath waiting' for the invention of a train where 'errybody can ride whenever they feel like, all at the same time, for 0 cost' |
22:46 |
asciilifeform |
y'wouldn't ~want~ to ride that train, even if it were there. |
22:47 |
asciilifeform |
catching ride in friend's benz -- yes, is wat deedbotwallet was. worked a++. |
22:47 |
whaack |
afternoon asciilifeform |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: it was used largely for small tx, i.e. coupla bitcents, where makes 0 sense to pony up tx fee that'd dwarf the payload |
22:48 |
whaack |
how did redraft of spec go |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
wb whaack |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
still didn't get to it, lol, moving crates in truck etc |
22:48 |
whaack |
nice to do work that's not at the computer, maybe? |
22:49 |
asciilifeform |
would be nicer not in the frost but what can do |
22:49 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl,teatime |
22:49 |
whaack |
heh enjoy |