#trilema | 2015-03-05

nevertheless, I take your point that the study of this history is worthwhile

00:01

decimation: Crassus was the Fire department

00:01

decimation in particular, the us fed was an attempt to copy germany, at the time extremely effectual.

00:02

although I don't know how one could find a history that isn't wrapped in progressive bullshit

00:02

it's easy to recast today as some sort of nefariousness, but if regarded properly rather than anchronistically it's just exactly the same as imperial russians trying to copy prussia.

00:02

at the time, in fact, the us and russia had a shitload in common : inept peripheral immense landmasses.

00:03

pretty much the same problems, the same solutions, the same obsession of women with french and men with german shit and so on.

00:03

nobody has made a "Russia and the US in the 1800s : A Tale Of Twin Sisters" monograph to date

00:03

aaactually

00:04

this merely speaks to the poor quality of english "historians". where's the new york gibbon ?

00:04

plenty of (otherwise uninteresting, believe) sov. tracts re: analogy b/w us slavery & ru serf-keeping

00:04

and the decline of each

00:04

asciilifeform russian side is a little better represented, but not much.

00:05

the historians who would be worth a shit are probably busy trying to keep their house and eat

00:05

so did gibbon.

00:05

he ALSO did the rise and fall.

00:05

*

BingoBoingo maybe surprisingly would still be willing to carry a rifle to tikrit in USia's name. Just since USia didn't accept my flirtations last time if they take me this time I want to pick the rifle.

00:05

life's what happens while people had other plans, an' posteriority remembers what you did BESIDES paying the bills.

00:06

BingoBoingo: last i checked usg will enlist just about anyone under fifty or so

00:06

Sand niggers are still a species of nigger

00:07

asciilifeform: They spotted me the last time with a specific mental defect they refuse to abide

00:08

BingoBoingo: tried the private sector ?

00:08

^

00:08

(i.e. the twenty thousand)

00:08

you can probably make decent loot with the various brackwaters.

00:08

though last i heard they're pretty well staffed and get picky

00:08

(preferring folks schooled in the normal army for a tour or three)

00:09

asciilifeform: The fucking local mall turned me down last X-mas season. Not any specific vendor, but all of them.

00:09

I've a cousin who did some bracjwasser stuff

00:10

!t m s.qntr

00:10

[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00027068 / 0.00027314 / 0.000301 (17082 shares, 4.67 BTC), 30D: 0.00021897 / 0.0002619 / 0.000301 (62444 shares, 16.35 BTC)

00:10

Was bored, but at least he wasn't on a boat which was his greatest fear as a marine

00:10

!t m s.mpoe

00:10

[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00035809 / 0.00038073 / 0.00040007 (2565886 shares, 976.92 BTC), 7D: 0.00033798 / 0.00039508 / 0.00044462 (26732598 shares, 10,561.55 BTC), 30D: 0.00033798 / 0.00040005 / 0.00048515 (88726595 shares, 35,495.37 BTC)

00:11

howly shit this is actually possibru o.O

00:13

god dangit.

00:13

;;ticker

00:13

Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 271.49, Best ask: 271.6, Bid-ask spread: 0.11000, Last trade: 271.59, 24 hour volume: 67948.14967978, 24 hour low: 267.0, 24 hour high: 285.99, 24 hour vwap: None

00:13

mircea_popescu: qntra shares face scarcity necessarily

00:13

BingoBoingo yeah but still.

00:14

mircea_popescu: Over time total new s.qntr per month is on a downward trend becasuse refinement

00:14

Each scam is only worth so many textual bullets

00:14

yep.

00:14

not a bad thing that, anywya.

00:15

more words < better words.

00:15

And if it wasn't for Moxenslit I wouls have been 1400 less words last month, but eulogy

00:16

Bet created: "Qntra to the moon" http://bitbet.us/bet/1127/

00:20

asciilifeform: But if brackwasser wants my hands they cn knock on my door as the FBI and Treasury department did.

00:21

Maybe they can actually hold together ling enough to submit a bid.

00:21

BingoBoingo: lol, right after i get conscripted to nsa sharashka

00:21

and ben_vulpes - to the ministry of wunderwaffen rocketeers

00:22

asciilifeform: Your plague is high standards. So long as their only demand is I shoot brown people, then I and them will be fine.

00:22

!up Vexual

00:22

Vexual: I am way too drunk atm for PM's

00:23

Vexual you know, iranians are white.

00:23

and the chicks are pretty.

00:23

^

00:23

Iranians could totally get the dick.

00:23

i think they stole more circassians than the dutch stole africans.

00:23

were at it for far longer, that's for sure.

00:25

*

asciilifeform refrains from going into deep tangent re: how iran may well have joined euro camp rather than descending into strange if it hadn't been spat upon as 'eastern monkeys' when tried

00:25

As a USian I have to assume ISIS must be bad, and therefore Obumer sucks for not letting me take potshots at them.

00:25

asciilifeform: Iran has always been more ready then the turks

00:26

see, for instance, the story regarding the composition of their not-quite-national-anthem 'ey iran' - sorta their equiv. of 'america the beautiful'

00:26

asciilifeform: I thought iran went apeshit because of the british and us meddling

00:26

asciilifeform: i was nearly disowned from marching band at one time for insisting on continuance to Star Spangled Banner's 3rd verse

00:27

BingoBoingo: should have sang the 'La Marseillaise'

00:28

decimation: I am not of Jurov's interface preferences

00:28

lol

00:28

damn, you piss heads are tempting me to drink now

00:28

would american schoolboys even recognize it ?

00:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00037373 = 6.0918 BTC [-] {2}

00:29

Seriouly though if USia offered me a mosin in exchange for 45 minutes at the ISIS border bleaching browns... I'd take that

00:29

asciilifeform: They would not

00:29

BingoBoingo: this is roughly why usg is still in business

00:30

rivers of meat are still ready to serve

00:30

BingoBoingo dreamt all his life of an infantry career? mud, guts, the works ?

00:30

asciilifeform: They would recognize te sovient national anthem though given a picture of sean connery

00:30

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041914 << lol this dood's something else. who the fuck was banned, even ?!

00:30

Logged on 04-03-2015 19:37:51; danielpbarron: yeah, prepare to be hated and banned

00:30

asciilifeform: And yet it was my temporal lobes that betrayed me

00:31

anyway, this ssd kid is abso-fucking-lutely endearing.

00:31

anyone even know who he is ?

00:31

mircea_popescu: Has #b-a actually banned ever?

00:31

well join/part spam, yeah

00:32

mircea_popescu: best I can tell they were anb honest n00b

00:32

but that gets undone on a "hey, i fixed it!"

00:32

peculiarly radiation-damaged n00b

00:32

BingoBoingo pity they never reg'd now it'll be damned hard to make the link.

00:32

too many limbs of one type, too few - of other, wrong directions attached

00:32

asciilifeform i read almost the whole thing, i fail to see anything to indicate anything wrong with him.

00:33

sjsqd: is still welcome to my ear. Maybe I misse dsome other subject

00:33

;;later tell sjsqd You are a crisis nao

00:33

The operation succeeded.

00:33

mircea_popescu: nothing malicious about the poor bugger, just the fact of having all of the traditional misconceptions ('i'll use my phone', 'let's try the Cloud', etc.)

00:33

kinda funny, yeah.

00:34

asciilifeform: how did you find that 'new lamer' guy? incoming links?

00:34

asciilifeform: That, plus their poor timing

00:34

decimation: machine logs

00:34

but children are born thus. the infrastructure if you wish. the pulmonary shunt.

00:34

it serves a purpose

00:34

Last year...

00:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00037056 = 3.6871 BTC [-] {2}

00:35

asciilifeform: I feel sorry for the poor guy, his heart is in the right place but he has no idea what kind of elephant he is trying to eat

00:35

BingoBoingo, what ya drinking, vodka?

00:36

aww and all the hate he's getting.

00:36

mats whay so mean dood!

00:36

decimation: The solution is not shooting him yet, but giving him a historical cadaver to explore

00:36

dubai (his claimed home) is an interesting place. haven't had to go there myself yet, but have a friend who regularly visits. has stories

00:36

asciilifeform at some point in the 90s knew a whole bunch of chicks who technically lived there

00:37

came back home "to study" 9 months in the year, hung out with husband over summer.

00:37

cazalla: Yes. Not vodka really. Just plain grain alcohol... and time... and dreams... of USia giving me brown people as a target...

00:37

BingoBoingo, believe it or not, i've yet to imbibe this month but you're encouraging.. so

00:37

the arabs import everything, food, women, work

00:38

the one thing i've always wondered about dubai is what the owners actually -do- (vs have others do)

00:39

but iirc the prophet never forbade coke

00:39

asciilifeform: if they are gentlemen scholars they don't seem to publish in english

00:39

asciilifeform apparently they're very insecure people, spend a lot of time wondering.

00:39

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/health/294758231.html

00:39

Minnesota college tragedies: Drunk, frozen and underage | Star Tribune ... ( http://bit.ly/18Sg5B2 )

00:40

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041934 o.O didn't know petey's fluent in russians.

00:40

Logged on 04-03-2015 19:43:17; pete_dushenski: now that it's a bit quieter in here: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/

00:40

asciilifeform: http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/emergencies/fire-in-a-dubai-building-disrupts-dubai-metro-operations-1.1216376

00:40

Fire in a Dubai building disrupts Dubai Metro operations | GulfNews.com ... ( http://bit.ly/18Sg9Rh )

00:40

a nm, french version

00:42

asciilifeform: video of the fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9djyhXo_k50

00:42

Tallest Residential Building on Fire - Dubai - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18Sgvax )

00:42

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041954 << aaaaahahahahaha

00:42

Logged on 04-03-2015 19:53:30; assbot: I just realized /hashtag/golang?src=hash's "go get" falls back to HTTP when HTTPS fails ☹ /hashtag/RussianRouletteSoftwareDistribution?src=hash /hashtag/CurlPipeSudoBash?src=hash /hashtag/yolo?src=hash /E_I_T

00:42

holy shit who does these things

00:43

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042688 << i meant banned from whatever venues he came from if he starts writing about b-a

00:43

Logged on 05-03-2015 05:30:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041914 << lol this dood's something else. who the fuck was banned, even ?!

00:43

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041957 << there's http://minigame.bz/eulora/binaries/ but otherwise the idea is for wikis etc to be community maintained.

00:43

Logged on 04-03-2015 19:56:49; PeterL: does Eulora have an official website?

00:43

... ( http://bit.ly/18SgCTx )

00:43

danielpbarron oh. yeah, i guess so.

00:44

artifexd ^ i would hope you won't have that problem ? :D

00:45

*

asciilifeform mumbles something regarding nonexistence of kitchens with single cockroaches

00:45

*

BingoBoingo wonders why USG won't consider cost effective ISIS solutions

00:45

^ subject to the standard 'unexpected hanging theorem' disclaimer

00:46

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041988 << quite.

00:46

Logged on 04-03-2015 20:11:02; asciilifeform: PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts

00:46

the reason i didn't clarify at the time was that i kinda hope he does go and write a LTBarticle about this place and get himself banned from "the community"

00:46

danielpbarron i think it's at breaking point, that "community"

00:47

danielpbarron: That is neither a problem nor a lack therof

00:47

right

00:47

treason's only a hanging offence originally. soon enough...

00:47

it would be good for him to get ejected from their midst

00:47

danielpbarron: So your disagreement relatred ratings

00:47

i kinda expect ejection in droves during the year.

00:47

don't take my word for it, sort of thing

00:47

it's at breaking point << it's been carrying on a happy 'life' of the undead zombie for quite some time, rotting, culturing maggots & worms, throwing chunks of flesh at bystanders

00:48

asciilifeform notrly, no.

00:48

danielpbarron: Contrast the case of 'Rozal'

00:49

i gave rozal -10 for being a self described liar, and some others got a -1 or -2 for striking me as sketchy..

00:49

mircea_popescu: it's alive for the purpose of usg stooges being able to 'talk about bitcoin' without mentioning #b-a ever

00:50

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1042001 << such lovely, srsly.

00:50

Logged on 04-03-2015 20:13:24; asciilifeform: there is even a 'rationale' document (also book) ready to argue with you

00:50

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/how-a-25-year-old-investor-spurred-lumber-liquidators-plunge < apparently the new investing hotness is to short a company and then throw it into the usg woodchipper

00:50

How a 25-Year-Old Sparked Lumber Liquidators’ Stock Plunge - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/18l0LLQ )

00:50

mircea_popescu: it's 100% free online, too

00:50

asciilifeform i think your view of what is after all a natural process is too informed by categorical logic.

00:51

(common lisp has a standard-cum-rationale and it isn't quite as deliciously readable)

00:51

real objects can of course never be categorically anything.

00:51

but similar

00:52

too informed by categorical logic... real objects can of course never be categorically anything << guilty. professional disease.

00:52

nttawwi.

00:52

danielpbarron: You initially gave him a small negative rating out of dislike and it was described as such. I hung him for fabricating allegations of theft.

00:52

what is the point of -10 if not for also having access to the other integers between it and 0

00:54

am i alone in using wot as was originally taught, 'level of confidence that this key represents person who is what they wish to believe us they are' ?

00:54

holy shit 2k lines that aren't your own are hard as fucking coffin nails

00:54

danielpbarron: For the dark mark. He got -10 for most grevious crime

00:54

*what they wish us to believe they are

00:54

asciilifeform yes. wot is "level of confidence i have a complete picture of this person"

00:55

;;rated Rozal

00:55

You rated user Rozal on Mon Jan 19 12:09:29 2015, with a rating of -10, and supplied these additional notes: Fabricated theft allegations http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/Rozal_allegation Confessed http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2015#983318 Full Indictment http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/Rozal_Indictment.

00:55

*

mircea_popescu insists on http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/

00:55

What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18l11un )

00:55

^^ aha that one

00:55

uh. speaking of which... anyone could explain wtf https://www.pinterest.com/ethanrana/httptrilemacom2014what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works/ is ?!

00:55

http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ on Pinterest | 100 Pins ... ( http://bit.ly/18l12yp )

00:56

spamatron

00:56

but... why an url ?!

00:56

'seo'

00:56

particularly in the case of certain demented browsers that pipe url bar contents into search engine under certain conditions

00:57

hm

00:57

mircea_popescu: consider - how did you even discover that page

00:57

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1042034 hawahahahahaha

00:57

Logged on 04-03-2015 21:15:54; bitstein: This is pretty lulzy: https://github.com/jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx

00:58

asciilifeform i had no idea trilema is THAT googled.

00:58

eth-neg << do you wonder why it was disclosed for bounty? rather than being used to shoot the thing in the head

00:58

as it quite certainly could have been

00:59

because the thing is worthless ?

00:59

(my hypothesis, simple: because eth. isn't alive and cannot be killed by shooting in the head. like 'redphone' and 'silent circle')

01:00

1000 'fatal' bugs will be found, if it carries on long enough, and will make no difference.

01:00

New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/a-sjsqd-walks-into-a-pub/

01:02

gossipd status: http://i.minus.com/ibaDjk7AeIcvxv.gif

01:02

... ( http://bit.ly/18SjtM5 )

01:07

PeterL I would much prefer to read an article than to listen to some guy talking. << And this is how the world ends. Not with a whimper, but with a 7.62x54R bang

01:08

*

asciilifeform thought it ends with the 'schpokk' of nailgun

01:09

artifexd lolk took 3 passes but bwahahaha

01:11

I'm pretty heads down on it so 1) I am falling very behind on logs and 2) I'm not hanging out in here

01:12

makes sense.

01:12

But, I do get pinged if my name shows up and I don't want y'all to think it has been forgotten.

01:12

got pinged because of the go http debacle

01:12

two lines up from where you were pinged

01:13

not that widget, as specced, uses http/s for anything

01:13

While interesting, that doesn't affect gossipd because I'm using lower level networking.

01:13

but it is precisely the kind of thing one gets when using turdlangs

01:13

esp. ones where 'omg111!!11 rich libraries, they do everything'

01:14

Funny how not long it takes the Christian to start a holy war upon the poor Arab! << LOL, I honestly didn't even consider his ethnicity; I have a /stab alias for when people annoy me

01:14

i enjoy opportunities to poke at people

01:14

lol

01:15

Oh, actually that is complaining about one of the golang tools. And it would be dangerous if you had a MITM that could swap out code inflight and were importing external code directly.

01:17

aha

01:17

*

BingoBoingo farts

01:17

artifexd: Golang seems to have a lot of those holes

01:21

*

BingoBoingo adires tedu as guy aho makes bullshit mor menory safe, questions... the rest pf the corpus

01:25

asciilifeform: I assume you saw the sudden freakout over hilariously weak crypto implemented by spec in SSL?

01:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00037132 = 3.7875 BTC [+]

01:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37650 @ 0.00037062 = 13.9538 BTC [-] {2}

01:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3058 @ 0.00037051 = 1.133 BTC [-]

~ 16 minutes ~

02:03

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00037035 = 4.5553 BTC [-] {2}

02:05

;;later tell pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/#footnote_2_2919 << belive it or not that'd actually be ecdsa rather than simple transposition.

02:05

Kerckhoffs’ history and principles of military cryptography, translated and adnotated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1zMWtU8 )

02:05

The operation succeeded.

02:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7923 @ 0.00038223 = 3.0284 BTC [+] {2}

~ 22 minutes ~

02:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00037275 = 5.7217 BTC [-] {2}

02:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00036892 = 4.0028 BTC [-] {2}

02:47

http://www.wired.com/2012/11/zeta-radio/

02:47

Mexican Cartels Enslave Engineers to Build Radio Network | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoFXzD )

02:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31726 @ 0.00038373 = 12.1742 BTC [+] {3}

03:03

http://metatalk.metafilter.com/23626/Sixteen-Years

03:03

Sixteen Years | MetaTalk ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoI5Yk )

03:04

when did they throw away the old cozy design...

03:06

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00037403 = 2.0572 BTC [-]

03:08

;;ticker

03:08

Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 272.63, Best ask: 272.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 272.7, 24 hour volume: 64140.20713433, 24 hour low: 267.0, 24 hour high: 285.99, 24 hour vwap: None

03:08

gribble doesn't like buttstamp anymore?

03:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00038422 = 1.5369 BTC [+]

03:15

http://www.digitalcurrencycouncil.com/uncategorized/join-us-on-march-8th-for-bitcoin-womens-day/

03:15

Join Us on March 8th for Bitcoin Women's Day - Digital Currency Council ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoJT3p )

03:16

lulz http://www.internationalwomensday.com/theme.asp

03:16

INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY 2015 Theme: Make It Happen ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoK7HN )

03:19

punkman, i've made my contribution, have you? https://twitter.com/captaincazalla/status/573396933793857536

03:19

Bitcoin needs more women! To that end, women can earn their first 0.1 BTC right here! http://t.co/jkfTtJ6tS3 /hashtag/MakeItHappen?src=hash /hashtag/BitcoinWomensDay?src=hash

03:20

cazalla, I will contribute by only using purple sex toys on the girl

03:20

it's the color of equality

03:27

http://image.dhgate.com/albu_925764541_00/1.0x0.jpg

03:27

... ( http://bit.ly/1EoLFSm )

03:33

that's a real thing lol?

03:36

scary looking bird http://bongashop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/5/image/bfe434d3359b3a2b8d266fbb8472c53a/A/N/ANPS14.jpg

03:36

... ( http://bit.ly/1EoMTgc )

~ 15 minutes ~

03:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00037403 = 8.3409 BTC [-]

03:57

cazalla what's "women's day" got to do with "digital currency" w/e the shit that means.

03:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6575 @ 0.00037706 = 2.4792 BTC [+]

03:59

mircea_popescu, seems an opportunity for them to stick their dcc branded shit next to an even bigger shittier brand, that being international wimminz day

04:00

totally this is the way to success.

04:00

keep keeping the magic buttons next to other magic buttons so the magic keeps infusing from one to the other and multiplying and shit.

04:00

soon enough they'll have enough mana stored up to resurect zig ziggler

04:01

and bring about three apocalypses for the low low price of 19.95

04:01

but wait! there's more!

04:01

if you apocalypse now you also get this free set of dragonbane absolutely free!

04:01

(retail value of 49.95)

04:01

that's some steak knife

04:02

PLUS! if you only use purple toys on the girl you get a bactericide cream for the vajayjay ABSOLUTELY FREE

04:04

"While Amin's articles, author profile at Coin Brief and twitter account have since been deleted, a copy of his author archive at Coin Brief remains available via Google cache and is mirrored here."

04:05

why the fuck would people do this. doesn't it stand to reason it's interesting now ? why delete it ?

04:05

lol twitter murdered bryce weiner ? ahaha

04:06

i know eh, his site has been mentioned in the wapo, cnn.. and he goes and deletes it lol

04:06

the guys content that is, not the site itself

04:08

weird.

04:08

anyway, since this is such a big deal (!?), anyone know of some of these isis reddit users ?

04:08

we could have a script to changetip them fiddy satoshi till the cows come home

04:09

or whatever, the bruhaha makes me want to send usd to isis now. how do i go about it ?

04:09

preferably using coinbase.

04:09

nope, but i'd laugh if they began to include a QR code in their head chop videos

04:10

donate x amount of BTC to see this guy go free by such and such date

04:10

totally.

04:10

they could have a "vote how the guy dies".

04:10

<10 btc, beheaded. < 100 btc, stabbed in esophagus. etc.

04:11

perhaps a custom video for the largest changetipper

04:11

100 btc guy goes free (o oops, a DIFFERENT group got him just as he was leaving our compound)

04:12

lol

04:12

anyway, the recently failed megaoffensive on tikrit produced from what i hear a good few thousands prisoners

04:12

no better time to turn usg agents into camwhores.

04:12

the eventual fate of everyone working for that thing anyway, why wait.

04:13

"pay $50 to watch pvt 1st class joshua cooper learn to give oral pleasure to Berg, the great dane"

04:13

i believe the aussie pm send 300 soliders to join the fight these past few days

04:14

sent*.. i'm not even drinking yet speak the engrish

04:15

i'm not so sure the great dane shit would be that popular

04:16

well whatcha gonna do, gayness is not allowed i think ?

04:16

i dunno, the egyptian pilot who got toasty'd was quite popular

04:16

fluffypony

[11:05:44] <+mircea_popescu>lol twitter murdered bryce weiner ? ahaha <- lol, anyone know what the story is?

04:16

3D!

04:16

anyway, if isis had any sense they'd just steal the liveshow format. what's that thing called where they put x guys in a house ?

04:16

except do it right, give them knives.

04:16

he change tipped an alleged isis twitter account fluffypony lol

04:17

fluffypony top story on qntra atm

04:17

fluffypony

hah hah

04:17

mircea_popescu, big brother

04:17

*

fluffypony checks

04:17

cazalla tya that.

04:17

anyway, if there's an official isis accounts list somewhere, i'm totally game to send them whatever 0.0050 cents or w/e changetip does.

04:18

there probably is somewhere

04:19

can't say i'm keen to be the first aussie bitcoiner nailed to the cross for simply mentioning bitcoin and ISIS in the same sentence though..

04:21

the cops already shut down an arterial road a few suburbs over this afternoon because some guy dared shoot annoying birds with an air rifle

04:21

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/police-close-roads-gunman-in-toorak-road-south-yarra-20150305-13wcev.html

04:21

Police close roads, gunman in Toorak Road, South Yarra ... ( http://bit.ly/1zZQIU8 )

04:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00037462 = 7.3238 BTC [-] {3}

04:31

nuts.

04:32

the very idea that police may even close roads...

04:32

this is rebellion outright.

04:37

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00037578 = 1.6346 BTC [+] {3}

~ 16 minutes ~

04:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.0003875 = 9.3388 BTC [+] {3}

04:58

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15661 @ 0.00036807 = 5.7643 BTC [-] {2}

05:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00038973 = 3.4101 BTC [+]

05:21

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00036786 = 4.9661 BTC [-] {2}

05:23

!up sjsqd

05:23

yes.

05:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8817 @ 0.00038973 = 3.4362 BTC [+]

05:28

sjsqd, ya back!

~ 15 minutes ~

05:44

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.04232399 = 1.2697 BTC [-] {4}

05:44

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 105 @ 0.012 = 1.26 BTC [+]

05:44

sjsqd

sorry afk have to visit family

05:49

o.O havelock returns ?

05:50

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00038874 = 4.5871 BTC [-] {3}

05:53

saw a few trades earlier

05:57

!up sjsqd

05:57

btw sjsqd, are you indian?

05:58

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.0421 = 2.105 BTC [-]

05:58

Because it is endangered and endemic to the area, development projects have been restricted to preserve its habitat. For example, the Dickey-Lincoln dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on the upper Saint John River in 1974, was deauthorized by Congress in 1986 after years of study, because the dam would have flooded 88,000 acres (360 km2) of Maine forest and severely reduced the lousewort's habitat. Some

05:58

criticized ending the dam project to protect the lousewort; Time magazine called the idea "downright silly" in 1977. While thought extinct at the time the dam was proposed, it was rediscovered in 1976 by C.D. Richards while doing surveys to determine the environmental impact of the dam.

05:58

epic.

05:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00036464 = 4.1751 BTC [-] {2}

06:10

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-03-2015#1042884 << they don't want your usary scrip, isiscoin uses PoAu

06:10

Logged on 05-03-2015 09:09:14; mircea_popescu: or whatever, the bruhaha makes me want to send usd to isis now. how do i go about it ?

06:18

http://www.coindesk.com/russian-politician-us-bitcoin-finance-terrorism/

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00038482 = 1.7317 BTC [+]

~ 29 minutes ~

06:47

chetty

06:47

Russian Lawmaker: Bitcoin is a CIA Conspiracy ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fd7rXE )

~ 24 minutes ~

07:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00039692 = 5.5569 BTC [+] {2}

07:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16166 @ 0.00039865 = 6.4446 BTC [+] {3}

07:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00038238 = 4.2062 BTC [-] {3}

~ 16 minutes ~

07:42

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00038032 = 2.4531 BTC [-]

07:45

mircea_popescu: criticized ending the dam project to protect the lousewort; << who the fuck cares about the lousewort

07:47

flooding a nice forest probably not the best idea, but their argument rests on lousewort?!

07:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4050 @ 0.00039941 = 1.6176 BTC [+]

07:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00038032 = 4.8871 BTC [-]

08:03

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 67 @ 0.04152686 = 2.7823 BTC [-] {3}

08:05

height=252240 vs height=199051 (usb3: height=234650)

08:08

Bet placed: 15.19171 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 81.3105122 BTC. Current weight: 72,803.

~ 17 minutes ~

08:26

!up irdial

08:27

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 73 @ 0.04116602 = 3.0051 BTC [-] {3}

08:30

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 90 @ 0.012 = 1.08 BTC [+]

08:30

dignork

nice idea: https://zyan.scripts.mit.edu/blog/rate-limiting-anonymous-accounts/

08:30

rate-limiting anonymous accounts | discrete blogarithm ... ( http://bit.ly/1DPuaH5 )

08:37

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 47 @ 0.04101 = 1.9275 BTC [-]

08:40

unload that AM1 while havelol is still up!

08:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38294 @ 0.00039953 = 15.2996 BTC [+] {4}

08:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12356 @ 0.00040014 = 4.9441 BTC [+]

09:01

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00038279 = 5.0145 BTC [-] {2}

~ 16 minutes ~

09:17

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 72 @ 0.04101 = 2.9527 BTC [-]

09:31

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00038654 = 2.9377 BTC [+]

09:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24420 @ 0.00037638 = 9.1912 BTC [-] {3}

09:42

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00036735 = 3.8204 BTC [-] {3}

09:43

[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 250 @ 0.00463785 = 1.1595 BTC [-]

09:48

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.0003833 = 2.4915 BTC [+] {2}

09:48

Bet placed: 1.02 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 82.3305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,680.

~ 19 minutes ~

10:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8132 @ 0.00039406 = 3.2045 BTC [+] {2}

~ 18 minutes ~

10:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00039342 = 1.7901 BTC [-]

10:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20287 @ 0.00040088 = 8.1327 BTC [+] {2}

10:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14301 @ 0.00040213 = 5.7509 BTC [+] {2}

~ 16 minutes ~

10:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00039095 = 1.2706 BTC [-] {2}

~ 20 minutes ~

11:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00039295 = 4.5779 BTC [-]

11:22

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00039095 = 2.5998 BTC [-]

11:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3805 @ 0.00039095 = 1.4876 BTC [-]

11:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00038571 = 3.2785 BTC [-]

11:41

<BingoBoingo> [05:31] mircea_popescu: Has #b-a actually banned ever? << tiberius.

11:42

<decimation> [05:35] asciilifeform: I feel sorry for the poor guy, his heart is in the right place but he has no idea what kind of elephant he is trying to eat << more like a spittoon

11:51

http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/ << moar on google breaking the internet

11:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1wJESSg )

11:51

<asciilifeform> [05:53] am i alone in using wot as was originally taught, 'level of confidence that this key represents person who is what they wish to believe us they are' ? << would this be the ancient "gpg wot" standard?

11:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9050 @ 0.00038571 = 3.4907 BTC [-]

11:54

Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 83.3305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,525.

12:04

ben_vulpes: yea. now we can associate bitcoin trades to a key to associate trust value.

12:06

New post on Qntra.net by lobbes: http://qntra.net/2015/03/missouri-secretary-of-state-orders-slaughter-to-pay-civil-penalties/

12:14

mircea_popescu: o.O havelock returns ? << we are dealing with undead. it is to be expected...

12:16

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00038571 = 6.1906 BTC [-]

12:27

ben_vulpes: ... #b-a actually banned ever? << mr spam, mr moarspam, others

12:35

his name was robert paulsen

12:38

asciilifeform: mr. moarspam?

12:39

adlai: that part of the book/movie is creepy as fuck.

12:39

thestringpuller: forgot his nick already. something to do with plague, contagion

12:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00038571 = 1.215 BTC [-]

12:43

!b 5

12:43

Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0CE5XAG.txt )

12:46

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9975 @ 0.00038192 = 3.8097 BTC [-] {2}

12:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13645 @ 0.0003815 = 5.2056 BTC [-]

12:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6055 @ 0.00036844 = 2.2309 BTC [-]

12:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10431 @ 0.00036356 = 3.7923 BTC [-]

13:09

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13472 @ 0.00038708 = 5.2147 BTC [+]

13:23

http://i.imgur.com/koR75BV.png << what a great typo

13:25

it ain't a cryptoparty if nobody's having fundation

13:31

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00036751 = 6.5049 BTC [-] {2}

13:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7921 @ 0.00037571 = 2.976 BTC [+] {2}

13:45

!up coalbe

13:50

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00037611 = 6.7512 BTC [+] {3}

13:50

!rate coalbe 1 really bad puns

13:50

coalbe is not registered in WoT.

13:50

coalbe!

13:50

!h

13:50

http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

13:51

coalbe

:shrug:

13:58

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00039053 = 2.3237 BTC [+]

14:06

!gettrust coalbe

14:06

Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user coalbe: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/coalbe | http://w.b-a.link/user/coalbe

14:06

!rate coalbe 1 bad puns

14:06

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e5c6ca4dfbaf370b

14:07

!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.coalbe.1:7963e8bebaef17f239758f67e4784ead88f565b669ba7319af114b55def5638b

14:07

Successfully added a rating of 1 for coalbe with note: bad puns

14:07

!down coalbe

14:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00040228 = 3.1177 BTC [+]

14:07

now pm assbot thusly: /msg assbot !up

14:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14394 @ 0.00040129 = 5.7762 BTC [-]

14:09

lobbes

!rate BingoBoingo 1 Helped me publish my first qntra article; all-around cool guy

14:09

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/20dfcdc3899a0cc0

14:10

lobbes

!v assbot:lobbes.rate.BingoBoingo.1:dddea0c2eacbe967fa5d475c36c3906904f651d7d5baba3f4a06f5eefe7eefa

14:10

Invalid verfication string.

14:11

looks like you are 1 character short.

14:11

or a scamzor.

14:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14525 @ 0.00036342 = 5.2787 BTC [-] {2}

14:12

lobbes

mike_c: you have better eyes than I

14:14

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.04 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}

14:16

*

asciilifeform replaced a ~15 year old fan

14:22

asciilifeform: you must take good care of your things

14:22

thestringpuller: esp. since this was the master ups

14:23

it was getting to the point that i could hear it in other rooms

14:23

(it's a 'double-conversion' monster that runs inverter 100% of the time)

14:24

Oh, I though maybe this was the sort of fan you replace for insufficient adoration

14:25

l0l

14:25

this was the useful kind.

14:26

that blows.

14:26

Sometimes other kinds blows as well.

14:26

put a 'pabst' fluid bearing 80mm in there. golden toilet, should last.

14:27

DigitalCurrency (@DCCCertified) favorited one of your Tweets! <<< bwahaha they don't even follow the links to see what it is, just fav away for tities lol

14:27

cazalla: thousand fly eyes

14:27

and fuck, i wish it was summer, first week of autumn and the mornings are already cold and dark

14:27

(tip: if anyone else has a 'liebert' ups, and replacing fan, don't throw out old one. you will need to snip&solder the connector.)

14:28

BingoBoingo: you have given me imagery of asciilifeform having a "posse". asciilifeform: "Why are you people following me?" Member of posse: "Oh, we're you're crew. We follow you everywhere."

14:31

tip: if you need a quiet fan, get one 'be quiet' makes

14:32

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21532 @ 0.0003621 = 7.7967 BTC [-] {3}

14:32

kakobrekla: iirc, there's exactly one producer of fluid bearings, and everybody else gets them

14:32

some ancient subdivision of sony, iirc

14:32

(fluid bearings used in fans, that is)

14:33

i dont know from the top of my head which one bq uses but i bought 50 high end fans a year+ ago and tested them all

14:33

still got a crate of 'bad' ones.

14:33

50 of same airflow, measured ?

14:33

because otherwise you're comparing bulldog and rhinoceros

14:34

i was testing for low rpm quietness where noise from bearings is the problem, noting else

14:34

or were you doing a cubometres/decibel thing

14:34

*

kakobrekla runs fans at 200rpm

14:34

Perfectly good occasions exist to compare bulldog and rhinoceros

14:38

checked: "fluid-dynamic bearing with copper core (300.000 operating hours)"

14:39

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00038662 = 2.4744 BTC [+]

14:39

kakobrekla: aha, it

14:40

circulating oil in manifold made from sintered cu

14:40

yeah these are great.

14:40

love'em, got at least 7 in just this room

14:41

but then second problem is running them slow enough - which only bq did as far as my tests went

14:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00038662 = 2.745 BTC [+]

14:41

kakobrekla: can always solder a controller inline with the cord

14:41

thats not the problem

14:41

but the fans have a minimum speed at which they will actually turn

14:42

aha

14:42

pwm fans have this hardcoded so to speak

14:42

you found ones where this was below 200 ?

14:42

or rather, above

14:43

most of them have min way above 200

14:44

most common seems to be around 500 or 600 rpm

14:44

some even higher.

14:46

heres a few of the more interesting pwm ones; http://shrani.si/f/3M/2d/4N2Jzpz2/profiles.png

14:46

... ( http://bit.ly/1BUCaLP )

14:46

you dont actually see noise here

14:46

but the working curve

14:47

'power %' << duty cycle ?

14:49

iirc that particular shot is pwm controlled

14:49

incidentally, whatever happened to electrodynamic fans ?

14:49

the kind without moving parts

14:49

http://shrani.si/f/3m/fc/18a8bPy7/1/noctua-nf-p12-both.png

14:49

... ( http://bit.ly/1M9MJKq )

14:49

here is same fan pwm vs voltage

14:49

pwm on right.

14:50

but not the one i use.

14:51

http://www.inventgeek.com/ionic-wind-pc-cooling << ancient article, re: make your own

14:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1M9MZci )

14:51

doubles as air filter.

14:53

kakobrekla: ^ definitely no bearing noise. no bearing, no motor...

14:53

hm

14:54

i had one of such 'ionization' clean air gadgets running for some time some years ago

14:54

it made the wall around it all back.

14:54

when configured as 'air cleaner' they tend to piss out ozone

14:54

and yes, make dust stick in random place

14:54

yeah not cool at all.

14:55

but in the shape pictured, the output mesh is grounded

14:55

*

asciilifeform has not tried the recipe, but invites anyone who has, to post.

14:56

btw if the wall was black, it was working

14:56

aha.

14:56

still is black :D

14:56

whole point of electrostatic cleaner is to make dust stick to things (in a well-constructed one, the 'thing' is the filter inside)

14:57

but dunno how wanted ozone really is

14:58

generally not very

14:58

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00038662 = 3.6729 BTC [+]

15:03

at least ozone smells good

15:04

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00038886 = 1.7499 BTC [+]

15:09

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00039363 = 4.5661 BTC [+] {2}

15:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9662 @ 0.00039964 = 3.8613 BTC [+]

15:26

not very healthy for breathing

15:30

Well, not if you get to much. What harm can the occasional whiff of it do?

15:30

we were talking about kako's ozone generator

15:30

running (presumably) all day

15:30

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html

15:30

Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners | Indoor Air | US Environmental Protection Agency ... ( http://bit.ly/18mqbsC )

15:31

ozone helps kill odours, so "cleaner" air

15:32

^ as per above, it does not affect organic molecules. just numbs the smell cells, I guess.

15:33

Ah

15:36

jurov, ah good to know

15:45

!up GrandHierophant

15:46

!up sjsqd

15:46

GrandHierophant

!down

15:46

GrandHierophant

!down GrandHierophant

15:47

!up GrandHierophant

15:51

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 3384 @ 0.012 = 40.608 BTC [+]

15:53

wtf GrandHierophant

15:54

New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/14-bidders-34-bids-in-latest-usms-bitcoin-auction/

15:55

cazalla: typo: ullbricht

15:55

GrandHierophant

what jurov

15:55

ulbricht rather

15:55

asciilifeform, it's early :\

15:57

https://www.emptywheel.net/2015/03/02/the-jihadi-john-cover-story << mega-l0l

15:57

The Jihadi John Cover Story | emptywheel ... ( http://bit.ly/1aNPDsW )

15:58

'British intelligence sources are now claiming that the SIGINT hunt for Emwazi preceded the HUMINT one, and also claiming that a SIGINT clue and the related SIGINT trail that clue uncovered provided the breakthrough in IDing him. Which is almost certainly bullshit. But notable bullshit, for two reasons. First, because the current story that the UK lost Emwazi poses really big problems for the dragnet. Because i

15:58

f someone like Emwazi, whom MI5 had been chasing for years, can simply disappear, only to reappear as the man beheading western journalists (though technically, the videos never show him doing so), then it suggests the entire dragnet is least effective when it is most needed. The Express ill-defined sources appear to want to tell a story about SIGINT succeeded rather then explain how it is that SIGINT failed (at least accor

15:58

ding to the story getting told publicly).'

16:00

i don't quite get this theory that they aren't actually selling the coins.

16:01

RENT is goin hard. Biggest trade I've seen yet.

16:01

BingoBoingo, others: http://www.governmentattic.org/14docs/USNORTHCOM-CONPLAN3502.pdf << gasenwagen

16:01

... ( http://bit.ly/1aNQqtK )

16:01

mike_c: they don't sell coins. they make you think they are selling coins.

16:01

There isn't much doubt that they took ulbricht's coins, right?

16:01

(^ very short letter, foia denial)

16:02

i understand the theory :) I don't get the basis.

16:02

winning bidder says, "Oh i received coins." with gun at head in background from USG suit and tie

16:02

thestringpuller: afaik the only source of this hypothesis is mircea_popescu, who presumably has a clue, but understandably won't reveal source of said clue

16:02

mike_c: price suppression is basis, but maybe there is more strategy to it?

16:02

seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?

↖ ↖

16:03

thestringpuller: "Oh i received coins." with gun at head... << it isn't clear why this would lead to price drops at public exchanges, unless anticipatory sell-offs (which would be brief)

16:03

price suppression doesn't mean they are selling fake coins, it would be the same if they were selling real coins.

16:04

asciilifeform: the price suppression comes because when someone wants x thousand coins they have this avenue. where otherwise they would be harder/more expensive to obtain.

16:04

mike_c: i still don't get why somebody buying a parcel of $maxint btc would affect the price on, e.g., 'btc-e'

16:04

asciilifeform: given the FDIC-like insurance scheme enemy is planning, i would think it probably there is some ability to forcefully liquidate funds against trader's wills (at least smaller ones)

16:04

if it doesn't happen there

16:05

the auctions are siphoning off demand that could otherwise show up on some exchange. and while the exchanges don't move in perfect tandem, they do move close unless something is wrong.

16:06

only siphons off demand unless, e.g., draper, was actually going to buy at public exchanges and then didn't

16:07

this would result in exchange rate failing to to climb, but how would it lead to a drop ?

16:07

*siphons off demand if

16:09

the price drops as supply exceeds demand (in a macro sense). if you believe that draper, silbert, etc. represented demand, and that the demand would have eventually made its way to the exchanges even if not directly

16:10

then the absence of that demand would suppress the price. whether this leads to flat, falling, or only "not rising as much" price

16:10

price drops as supply exceeds demand << this is like finding a corpse and declaring 'he died from not breathing'

16:10

depends on how much other demand there is

16:10

yes, it's rather obvious, but interested in mechanics

16:11

aren't there 3.6k coins found every day that need to find a new home or else a miner can't pay his electricity bill?

16:12

that depends on who you ask. some will say that miners mine specifically to get nice clean coins and aren't selling to pay bills.

16:12

^ that was my theory (though quite likely it's a formula obvious to many folks)

16:12

what is a clean coin? i thought there is no taint in bitcoin

16:12

others say that the big miners don't have to worry about paying electricity bills..

16:13

as has been more or less proven in here before, the big miners aren't buying KNC/bitmain/whoever rigs.

16:13

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00038968 = 4.0916 BTC [-] {2}

16:14

;;bc,stats

16:14

16:14

afaik nothing whatsoever is publicly known about the 'big miners' other than approximate hash output.

16:15

"nothing whatsoever". If hash power goes up by an order of magnitude more than the output of the minig rig manufacturers, something is known.

16:15

other than this.

16:15

alternatively, the output figures are bullshit

16:15

like KNC is underreporting their sales?

16:16

and one or more quietly produced a great many units which do not publicly exist except for their hash

16:25

;;ticker

16:25

Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 270.25, Best ask: 270.46, Bid-ask spread: 0.21000, Last trade: 270.47, 24 hour volume: 55311.03169349, 24 hour low: 262.0, 24 hour high: 275.0, 24 hour vwap: None

16:25

;;calc 270.25 * 3600

16:25

972900

16:26

danielpbarron: aren't there 3.6k coins found every day that need to find a new home or else a miner can't pay his electricity bill << ^ quite a bill

16:29

danielpbarron: what is a clean coin? i thought there is no taint in bitcoin << but there is in fiat.

16:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00038793 = 5.1789 BTC [-]

16:30

danielpbarron: for an american gasenwagen, it is theoretically enough that you moved $int from your bank account to a known btc exchange at some point

16:30

well they aren't paying their electric bills directly in bitcoin.. yet

16:30

where the coins are, the victim will reveal himself when the soldering iron warms up

16:34

moar alf poetry

16:34

the book of alf

16:34

felipelalli: About coinbr.com, what happens if my account stay negative "forever"? << eventually coinbr will ask you to cover the unpaid fees, otherwise some assets get liquidated in, say, 12 months

16:34

i could not be arsed to do it yet

16:37

Thank you jurov! :) So, the only way to "pause" the fees when our account is kind of inactive is selling all assets and removing the account? Is it possible to remove an account and keep the assets?

16:38

felipelalli: Is it possible to remove an account and keep the assets << if you bought an mpex account...

16:38

asciilifeform: I'd imagine that. :(

16:38

;;calc 0.19 * 12 * [ticker --last]

16:38

636.1428

16:38

mpex account is actually much more expensive than coinbr

16:38

;;calc 0.019 * 12 * [ticker --last]

16:38

63.61428

16:38

naturally

16:38

;;calc 30 / 0.019

16:38

1578.94736842

16:38

;;calc 1578.94 / 12

16:38

131.578333333

16:39

are these bitcents really such a problem?

16:39

^- the years it would take to pay off mpex account

16:39

on coinbr

16:39

coinbr is remarkable deal

16:39

jurov: they sure are for me, for example

16:39

it means that the machine isn't fire&forget

16:39

and you have to somehow come up with new btc once in a while

16:39

So, it is fun to play in MPEx and CoinBR only if you are really rich! :) Not my case right now, yet.

16:40

$5 / month is rich?

16:40

felipelalli: congrats on coming to this conclusion quickly and painlessly

16:40

mike_c: yes, rich, if it's 5 in plutonium

16:40

not yet. unpaid fees just accumulate, not even that if you get any dividends

16:40

well, if I buy like $10 in assets, if I pay $5 / month I am making a bad deal, right?

16:40

yes

16:40

lol @ $10 in assets

16:41

it's what you do with fiat assets? to ask broker to manage $10 woth of them?

16:41

*worth

16:41

*

asciilifeform doesn't have broker either

16:41

LOL $10 in assets

16:41

well! That's why I am saying I cannot play yet! :) I'm investing hard in my business, I can't invest hard in MPEx assets yet right now.

16:41

felipelalli: you're missing out

16:41

you can always make a bitbet bet

16:42

also mpex is probably safest place to store bitcoin

16:42

^ i never grokked this argument

16:42

???

16:42

in either case, lose your key, lose the coin

16:42

(which is as it ought to be)

16:42

oh

16:42

anyway i plan the possiblity to loan everything to coinbr, with dividend payments directly to your address

16:42

asciilifeform: well I keep my private key in a back up in a tube up my but

16:42

t

16:43

no fees, but your assets would be available only 30 days after calling or so

16:43

similar like i do for qntra people

16:43

who haven't asked me otherwise

16:44

jurov: like a "pause"?

16:44

you can see it as pause

16:44

yes

16:45

that would be great. But $5 / mo worth it, I thought it was more expensive, don't know why. I'll continue to pay that even without big investments yet.

16:45

*

BingoBoingo doesn't see why jurov shouldn't get paid for "fire and forget" Could be a one time fee much larger than the monthly fee.

16:46

it *is* fire and forget. he doesn't liquidate you if you have unpaid fees

16:46

jurov: maybe a year plan would be nice as well.

16:46

BingoBoingo: that would be essentially reselling mpex account at cost, no ?

16:46

mike_c: yes. now I think jurov is too much nice. :D

16:47

i'd hate to see things get too user friendly up in here :p

16:47

don't worry, when i finally implement these loans, i'll start nagging

16:47

or else every "homo reddicus" with $10 will end up spamming the orderbook

16:48

asciilifeform: Or simply selling access to his proxy for a fixed price option. Maybe in the range of 5-20% of what the mpex account costs, so still an intege BTC price in this hypothetical.

16:48

jurov: chasing bad payers? lol

16:48

and it isn't a big sum anyway

16:49

felipelalli: but really, you'd give up your ability to trade online for such "free account"?

16:49

danielpbarron: it isn't $ 10, it was just an exaggeration. I guess I have more than $ 100 there.

16:49

you're ok with 30day delay?

16:49

coinbr glacier :)

16:50

haha

16:50

jurov: the point is that I don't want to "trade online", I don't have time for that. I just want to buy MPEx or QNTRA for example and let there, sleeping.

16:50

jurov: I'm OK with 60 or 90 days delay.

16:51

orly. even better for me.

16:51

cause he can lend your shares without your permission

16:51

jkjk

16:51

thestringpuller that's exactly what i do have in mind

16:51

aahahah, I allow. He can make fractional reserve. If this pay my fee.

16:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00039 = 2.34 BTC [+] {2}

16:53

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 100 @ 0.03833099 = 3.8331 BTC [-] {6}

16:57

danielpbarron: if homo redditicus were only a problem because 'spamming the orderbook', that would be another thing. a bot could theoretically 'vacuum up the chump money' and that's that. But - they, as i understand, spam support lines, public fora, and overall poison the atmosphere in ways not outweighed by the pennies they bring in

16:58

(n00bs can read my original article reviewing mpex, containing summary of mircea_popescu's material on above subject - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108 )

16:58

Loper OS » A Review of MPEx, the Bitcoin Stock Exchange. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMeIPc )

16:58

*

danielpbarron nods

16:59

that's the point of coinbr though. they pay jurov for the right to harrass him

16:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00038225 = 5.428 BTC [-]

16:59

people call charles schwab, not NYSE, when they have a problem.

17:00

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 325 @ 0.0125 = 4.0625 BTC [+] {2}

17:00

i kinda wonder why poor folks are even interested in mpex (or, for that matter, schwab)

17:00

same reason as havelock. buy a few shares and you feel a part of something big.

17:01

mike_c: religion? ok

17:01

!b 2

17:01

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0BBSCR8.txt )

17:01

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15463 @ 0.00038225 = 5.9107 BTC [-]

17:02

(i, for instance, wasn't interested at all until invited to write a review, using free demo. which i did. and in the course of said demo, realized that i've not particularly much to -do- with such a thing, on account of having approximately no coin)

17:02

because i don't so much go in for religion

17:03

if you have hundreds, thousands of coin - yes, it is very interesting

17:04

it can be interesting with as little as .. 5 .. 10 coins

17:05

not if your time is worth anything

17:05

some people enjoy it

17:05

hard to argue with that. there are 'some people' who enjoy just about anything.

17:06

yeah, some like ada :D

17:06

*

asciilifeform is at this moment actively unenjoying the ada

17:06

there's nothing wrong with taking a few btc and playing around on coinbr as a way to learn more about btc finance world.

17:06

sure

17:07

as amusement park - works.

17:07

asciilifeform's got a good point though, with such little amounts you aren't going to move the market -- might as well just pretend trade in a txt file

17:07

^ precisely

17:07

i can - and do - play this game privately on occasion

17:07

if you have 3 btc, and you just doubled it to 6 in the recent qntra surge, you probably are quite happy with yourself.

17:07

without paying anyone anything

17:08

mike_c: for folks who like to gamble - straight to the dice games

17:08

"but trading isn't gamblinggggg!"

17:08

why not gamble on a +EV game?

17:08

for folks who can reliably turn x into 2x - they already have mpex accounts, aren't reading this

17:09

and how'd you know that, asciilifeform?

17:09

ben_vulpes: conjecture.

17:09

maybe they not only are reading this, they are writing it! :)

17:09

in reality, nobody can reliably turn x into 2x.

17:10

at least not more than a couple time

17:10

incidentally, anyone ever try the exercise of writing a 'pefect knowledge' bot that tells you 'what could have been' ?

17:10

as in, the maximum one could have hoped to earn on coinbr in a particular time interval starting with x btc

17:10

(this is actually np-complete, but one can find approximations)

17:11

this requires non-public knowledge

17:11

how?

17:11

like what the order book looked like across time

17:11

we're talking about historical data

17:11

mike_c: technically yes

17:12

but again can approximate, roughly, solely with price history, no ?

17:12

folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?

17:12

depends on liquidity.. maybe for mpoe. even there, not really

17:12

well, I not only have a clue, i have the order book history :)

17:12

for small enough x, market has full depth at all times, no?

17:13

is depth really a concern for infinitesimal working sum ?

17:14

infinitesimal, no. but then you're 'perfect knowledge' bot isn't going to make so much anyway

17:14

mike_c: it will give you an x and x', where x' > x

17:14

mm, not quite. because order book could have been better than price history at times

17:15

bid climbs up, then down, then sale happens. if you had sold at higher bid you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot

17:15

understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve

17:15

you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot << impossible by definition

17:15

'perfect info bot' is this abstract thing. a god.

17:16

ok, but that's what i'm saying. the god needs non-public info

17:16

even for determining what x' is for x=0.01 btc ?

17:17

*

asciilifeform can already picture how - if the 0.01 were enough to 'move between equivalence classes' in the orderbook

17:17

*

jurov rolls eyes

17:18

i'll leave it at this - you will come up with a number that is just as useful with public info as you would with non-public info.

17:18

bitbet is certain to make 7% dividend next month

17:18

to buy it does not need any perfect bot

17:18

but nobody does

17:18

bitbet dividend = rand()

17:18

i merely suspect that no one, not even a god, could 'get rich' at 'investing' pocket change at mpex

17:18

lol mike_c

17:18

mike_c: have you read the last report?

17:18

sure feels that way

17:19

so, nobody even reads the fkn reports

17:19

jurov: just a poke at the frequency of dividend mistakes on that asset :)

17:19

(unless someone noticed that he's a god, and gave him a bag of coin for lulz. but that's outside the rules of the gedankenexperiment!)

17:19

and they want to have" perfect bots"

17:20

(unlike 'redditicus' the impossibility doesn't irritate me in the slightest, i have other things in life to play with)

17:22

jurov: bitbet is certain to make 7% dividend next month.. to buy it does not need any perfect bot.. but nobody does << this is because time is worth something

17:22

well, plus he is incorrect. monthly volume is over 1% of total shares.

17:22

calculate, how much coin would i need to have on hand for it to be worth the effort in getting a coinbr account and making the gears go correctly

17:23

[MPEX] [S.BBET] 8051 @ 0.00018861 = 1.5185 BTC [+] {5}

17:24

well. avg s.mpoe dividend is about 100 satoshi

17:24

more effective to not do it and just buy btc.

17:24

;;calc 0.2*100000000/100

17:24

200000

17:24

damn

17:24

;;calc 0.02*100000000/100

17:24

20000

17:25

^ this many shares you need to stay even

17:25

;;calc 20000*0.0004

17:25

8

17:25

there we go.

17:25

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2620 @ 0.00038225 = 1.0015 BTC [-]

17:26

'The Third Rock From The Sun can hold an atmosphere and your piece of cosmic flotsam cant.' (from my article)

17:26

gravity works this way, and so do other things.

17:27

nad you'd be fine with 90day delay to access them, too?

17:27

*and

17:27

jurov: nope. i'm not the least bit interested in low-frequency trading

17:27

takes away what little point there is, no?

17:27

and what you are interested in?

17:28

escape rocket

17:28

(but i know that it isn't happening with trading, because i'm not an idiot, so i don't trade)

17:28

well, that's not my business

17:28

didn't mean to imply that it was.

17:29

or that jurov's gizmo doesn't function exactly as printed on crate.

17:30

can you pls explain the issue?

17:30

no issue, just the fact that i personally don't have any jobs for which coinbr is the right tool

17:30

the folks subscribing - presumably have reasons

17:31

i just cannot know what they are.

17:31

Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 84.8305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,110.

17:31

Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1123/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 28.65000237 BTC. Current weight: 68,632.

17:35

*stunned silence*

17:36

i'm trying to make do under some constraints, which i explained several time here

17:36

*times

17:37

i think i understand how coinbr works, and why

17:37

but i don't know who the users are and what motivates them

17:37

having thousands of chumps pounding on on mpex accounts is just unthinkable, hence the fees.

17:37

*on one mpex account

17:37

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043338 << it is when your strategy works mostly based on depth

17:37

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:13:44; asciilifeform: is depth really a concern for infinitesimal working sum ?

17:37

aha

17:39

*

adlai not sure if he counts as a 'folks with a clue'

17:39

jurov: would you say that the 'thousands of chumps' are using your gizmo instead ?

17:39

*

asciilifeform has no idea re: coinbr user stats

17:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6119 @ 0.00038007 = 2.3256 BTC [-] {2}

17:41

they could be using my gizmo only if it worked as boiler room

17:41

*

adlai notes to self to offer asciilifeform a seat on the escape rocket, should the clue ever be proven

17:42

jurov: i think i get what you mean

17:42

specifically, scalpl's purpose is to produce the fastest possible escape rocket for a given (parametrizable) risk tolerance; once that technology is in place, it's just a matter of finding a market for which the maximum speed at your risk tolerance exceeds escape velocity

17:43

adlai: see earlier discussion about what 'carnot efficiency', if you'll allow the analogy, is for scalpl (or any similar machine)

17:43

!s carnot from:asciilifeform

17:43

4 results for 'carnot from:asciilifeform' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=carnot+from%3Aasciilifeform

17:43

not mentioned by name earlier

17:44

but trying to compare to the well-known thermodynamic optimum for an engine

17:44

adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043325 << thread starting here

17:44

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:10:23; asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone ever try the exercise of writing a 'pefect knowledge' bot that tells you 'what could have been' ?

17:44

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043164 << coins have moved on the blockchain, although it's trivial to fake this - if you control the coins.

17:44

Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:54; mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?

17:45

(parametrizable) risk tolerance << and this is solved problem in finance?

17:45

nope, but it's a problem that individuals can tackle for themselves

17:46

it's simply an elementary fact that you can't +ev your way 'from rags to riches' unless you know something other folks don't

17:48

[MPEX] [S.BBET] 8000 @ 0.00018125 = 1.45 BTC [+] {2}

17:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2683 @ 0.0003914 = 1.0501 BTC [+]

17:49

the 'perfect knowledge' bot - are you using the word 'perfect' to suggest that it knows what _will_ happen?

17:49

because that is pure masturbation

17:51

there's a lot of interesting knowledge in the distribution of expected liquidity events given all other data on the market, but it's far from 'perfect', because it gives you, at best, a precisely calculated distribution of 'past performance'

17:52

adlai: yes, 'knows what will'

17:52

adlai: and no, not pure masturbation

17:52

any more than carnot cycle is

17:53

it tells you (or would, if could be written, but the most you can hope for is an approximation, as the problem - even with all the necessary data - is np-complete) the theoretical maximum that could have been achieved

17:53

against which to measure the actuality.

17:54

sorta like the 'x % kills' (what fraction of the monsters you dealt with) shown at the end of a 'doom' level

17:55

I don't think carnot cycle is a good analogy here

17:56

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00037559 = 4.6949 BTC [-] {2}

18:00

Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 89.8305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,075.

18:00

calling this 'np-complete' is like calling ftl drive research 'expensive'

18:01

the information isn't just hard to attain, it doesn't exist

18:02

"market will go up" is different from "joe impulse trader will press the button once he sees N flashing numbers", and 'perfect information' requires the latter, which is for all practical purposes, random

18:03

more personally, if perfect information exists, scalpl is truly a wild goose chase; i'm betting my time on perfect information not existing, and there being room for patience to profit off information fuzzyness

18:08

gathering and interpreting actual information is a totally different story, and there's a huge amount of information that most/all human traders totally *ignore*, and that's as mike_c said - past order book movements

18:13

!gettrust friedcat

18:13

friedcat is not registered in WoT.

18:14

*

adlai is not surprised

18:15

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9336 @ 0.00038768 = 3.6194 BTC [+] {2}

18:15

asciilifeform: 'x % kills' << this would be a totally meaningless epsilon for any 'perfect information bot' that actually acts on that information

18:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00039239 = 4.434 BTC [+] {2}

18:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00040062 = 8.8537 BTC [+] {3}

18:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00040226 = 2.6348 BTC [+]

~ 15 minutes ~

18:45

look like indiana jones' number might be up

18:46

or han solo depending on your preference

18:51

what's that mean ?

18:51

Oh, is Harrison Ford kicking the bucket soon?

18:51

i hate to link to it, but.. http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/05/harrison-ford-plane-crash-landing-golf-course-santa-monica/

18:51

Harrison Ford -- Plane Crashes ... Actor Seriously Injured | TMZ.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOovK8 )

18:52

o.O

18:52

cessna nailgun

18:55

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042949 ehehehe

18:55

Logged on 05-03-2015 11:47:57; assbot: Russian Lawmaker: Bitcoin is a CIA Conspiracy ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fd7rXE )

18:55

who is this, zhirinovsky ?

18:56

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042955 << their argument rests on some random schmuck who went in the field to "Study" it, introduced some seeds, claimed to have discovered the resulting plants and woe and behold, a redditard mattered!

18:56

Logged on 05-03-2015 12:47:00; punkman: flooding a nice forest probably not the best idea, but their argument rests on lousewort?!

18:56

i think it's unseemly that they should be further encouraged.

18:56

the sooner they lose all hope the sooner their children can begin tearing up redditardamerica and building a livable space north of rio grande.

18:57

mircea_popescu aha you're quite right about the scytales. a variable diameter stick is really a fascinating way of graphing cryptographic curves.

18:58

yup

18:58

greeks, way ahead of romans and their spawn ONCE AGAIN

18:58

they had the atomic theory, they had the steam engine, they had the works.

18:59

atomic theory i knew, but steam engine ?!

18:59

yup

18:59

and the romans were empire builders, not philosophers

18:59

look into hero of alexandria

18:59

they had philosophers, but that's a different thing

19:00

(aeolipile)

19:01

"The aeolipile was a hollow sphere mounted so that it could turn on a pair of hollow tubes that provided steam to the sphere from a cauldron. The steam escaped from the sphere from one or more bent tubes projecting from its equator, causing the sphere to revolve. The aeolipile is the first known device to transform steam into rotary motion."

19:01

well waddya know!

19:01

got another retweet for the bits for tits trilema post.. this time by a bitcoin magazine for women.. ah ha, they don't even read, just retweet

19:02

lol

19:02

of course, i'm working on the assumption these are lefties who would be grossly offended at such an idea but you never know..

19:02

New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/mpif-fmpif-february-2015-statement/

19:02

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00040568 = 9.3915 BTC [+] {4}

19:02

ftr, actual lefties aren't offended at nudity.

19:02

what's this about graphing curves?

19:03

the weirdo abominable us "lefties", which are really a sort of recycled aunt pollies, yes.

19:03

adlai greek scytales

19:03

*

adlai has been visualizing his way along https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jTFxQaUJA

19:03

ECCHacks - A gentle introduction to elliptic-curve cryptography [31c3] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOq8Yt )

19:03

but otherwise, a lefty commune more likely to be nude than otherwise.

19:03

sure, i know what scytales are. but 'a variable diameter stick is really a fascinating way of graphing cryptographic curves.' = ?

19:03

adlai do i misunderstand how scytales work ?

19:03

mircea_popescu, aren't the us lefties the type of lefties behind bitcoin wimminz day anyway

19:04

gotta ask 'em, cazalla. whadda i know >D

19:05

the other leftie type being.. amir/hippy types living in a hovel engaging in drug fuelled orgies?

19:05

pete_dushenski: could be. scytales just rearrange the 'packets' of a message, whereas modern crypto jumbles the data within

19:06

" the scytale, consisted of a tapered baton around which was spirally wrapped a piece of parchment inscribed with the message. When unwrapped the parchment bore an incomprehensible set of letters, but when wrapped around another baton of identical proportions, the original text reappeared. "

19:07

it just changes the order of the letters

19:07

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042989 < http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/#comment-160812

19:07

Logged on 05-03-2015 16:51:02; ben_vulpes: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/ << moar on google breaking the internet

19:07

... ( http://bit.ly/1DQPr2V )

19:07

adlai being ignorant of the difference between rearranging packets and jumbling, can you expand ?

19:07

cazalla most of israel was built by lefties.

19:08

adlai "packets" "data within", what is this, we make up words day ?

19:09

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00040817 = 4.694 BTC [+]

19:11

also, who needs scoopbot when I'm here anyways : http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/05/the-fashionability-of-being-uncompetitive-because-reasons/

19:11

The fashionability of being uncompetitive. Because Reasons. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOrOB6 )

19:11

pete_dushenski: let's say scytale diameter is em/2π, ie the message has six 'rows', and each sextet of letters on the wrapped paper corresponds to a column

19:12

the scytale cipher is equivalent to drawing a long table with six rows (adding columns as needed), and writing out the message to fill the column; then all the letters are jumbled. but the letters remain unchanged

19:12

it leaks information about the message content, even if you don't get the full thing

19:13

adlai you are making assumptions about the length of the parchment.

19:13

so what. should have used klein bottles or such.

19:13

what assumptions?

19:13

it could be 2700 stadies for all you know

19:13

;;calc .185 * 2700

19:14

499.5

19:14

500km. wow check me out, i can estimate!

19:14

lol

19:15

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10222 @ 0.00040817 = 4.1723 BTC [+]

19:15

wait, where's 0.185 from ?

19:15

adlai: the information isn't just hard to attain, it doesn't exist << the bot is not for use! it's a theoretical construction, like carnot cycle

19:16

there's ~185 meters in a stadion

19:16

(the thing you folks call stadium in english an' stadion in french :) )

19:17

o estadio !

19:17

scytales... ecdsa << if this analogy is accurate, woe be unto ecdsa users. you can crack scyrale with a physical contrivance analogous to an engorging cock

19:17

depends on one's.... capacity

19:17

not everyone packs a salami for lunch

19:17

if the "perfect bot" ends up with less then complete monopoly, then it's non-prefect by definition

19:18

asciilifeform only if it's fixed taper.

19:18

unless we can endlessly argue that monopoly is not optiomal outcome for its owner

19:19

the boundary is now carnot cycle but complete pwnage

19:19

*not carnot cycle

19:19

mircea_popescu: if can vary taper between min and max of what opponent could have used - then yes

19:19

jurov: nobody's getting a monopoly off epsilon btc

19:20

jurov: which is why the gedankenexperiment was specifically about epsilon

19:20

in 2009 there was only epsilon

19:20

asciilifeform what i mean is, that you need the volume to be defined by the same angle all around the center. ie, you need a baton that can be turned. whereas in practice they'd use unturned batons.

19:20

notyhing else

19:20

mircea_popescu asciilifeform could also be variable taper

19:20

it's what i said o.O

19:21

i doubt that they varied the taper

19:21

ever seen the item itself ?

19:21

take a table leg, a length of photo film, and experiment

19:21

no, table length is turned.

19:21

mircea_popescu i'm slow..

19:21

only ever saw modern reproductions of scytale

19:21

not having been to ancient sparta in person

19:22

all the ones i've seen were asymmetrical.

19:22

http://crypto.di.uoa.gr/ec13puzzle/Eurocrypt_2013_-_puzzle_page/background_files/IMG_4749.jpg

19:22

... ( http://bit.ly/1DQRhB3 )

19:22

i see it

19:22

crpto, 3k years ago as today : if naively implemented, trivial. if not... well.... ahem.

19:23

still crackable with a rubber cock that inflates while second variable is expansion of one end (use an aperture, like camera)

19:23

yes, but the problem becomes similar to "crack this otp"

19:23

"sure. i can crack it any way you want me to"

19:23

more like cracking a rotor

19:24

more like cracking rsa : for the techology they had at the time, absolute security.

19:24

as adlai pointed out, there is ample info bounding the possible plaintexts available in the ciphertext

19:24

for their time - if they worked it correctly - yes

19:24

only if you assume the pad is short and fixed length

19:25

fixed distance i mean. if you have a 100 cm pad with 1 leter per cm, yes.

19:25

if you have a 5km pad with 1 letter per 1.1 cm on average, from 1 to 2, then no.

19:25

incidentally, i love a good analogue 'stone-age' cryptomechanism. and not only for enciphering. consider the broken cup.

19:26

right

19:26

authenticator, used even in ww2

19:26

this, iirc, was the first use of glass

19:26

they'd make a bead and crush it.

19:26

modern cryptowankers' parlance calls these 'physically unclonable function'

19:27

glass is still king, incidentally

19:27

tup

19:27

yup*

19:27

except don't have to break it, but expose to light

19:27

a kind of interferometric 'hash'

19:27

the cool thing about nonphysical crypto is that you can generate unclonable objects together with a physically separated party

19:27

adlai: ?

19:28

shared secret generation

19:28

what's the unclonable part ?

19:29

adlai the cool thing about everything nonphysical is... its nonphysicality ;)

19:29

when i used word 'unclonable' - that's meant literally. as in, no one will produce a matching half of that broken glass

19:29

even if they'd much like to

19:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10384 @ 0.00039901 = 4.1433 BTC [-]

19:30

with any existing or foreseeable tech

19:30

i guess everything's clonable, so that's the wrong analogy to make; physical unclonable items would be used for authentication ('thing is as i remember it'), shared secrets are used for secure communication

19:30

(there are edges a few atoms thick, in there)

19:30

adlai> i guess everything's clonable, << what's this, progress hour ?

19:32

http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/#comment-160795 << lawl i like this guy.

19:32

... ( http://bit.ly/1DQSnwx )

19:32

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25936 @ 0.00040536 = 10.5134 BTC [+] {2}

19:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00037772 = 8.5742 BTC [-] {3}

19:37

^ re: linked article << 'embrace & extinguish'

19:37

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043090 <<< me is blown away at kakobrekla's immense fan expertise.

19:37

Logged on 05-03-2015 19:46:13; kakobrekla: heres a few of the more interesting pwm ones; http://shrani.si/f/3M/2d/4N2Jzpz2/profiles.png

19:37

asciilifeform yeah, that entire "oh, let's use someone else's stuff because it's stuff and why not" thing is dead.

19:38

they have shat the stick, so to speak. no further usage of anything unless it's in the wot.

19:38

'free cheese is found in mousetraps'

19:38

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 85 @ 0.03812376 = 3.2405 BTC [-] {5}

19:38

be it google or apple, it can fucking rot. everything will have to be reimplemented.

19:38

there's no such thing as "not evil" us corps.

19:38

there are also impotent, and also dead ones

19:38

as americans used to say 'good indians are in the cemetary'

19:39

sure. but as a matter of principle, the naive 1990s hippy "here's a thing i found, i am using it now" thing jumped the shark.

19:39

it's rather like those kids in ru who make a hobby of collecting mementoes from old battlefields

19:39

will make "get big fast" fucking impossible to get revenue on, because all the customers you want are not going by marketing.

19:39

every so often, 'oooh coool',... 'bang'

19:40

if you aren't a sapper - find another hobby

19:40

and it'll make it fucking impossible fgor all the retarded "Women in internet" to make a living at their usual scams, marketing, pr, whatever.

19:40

but... them's the breaks.

19:41

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 116 @ 0.012 = 1.392 BTC [-]

19:42

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043133 << wut ?! ozone is pretty much the number 1 reducer of organic matter.

19:42

Logged on 05-03-2015 20:32:25; jurov: ^ as per above, it does not affect organic molecules. just numbs the smell cells, I guess.

19:43

dumbass epa. from the link :

19:43

"The same chemical properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic material outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic material that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs (see - "Ozone and Your Health")."

19:43

oxidizer not reducer

19:43

obviously, the reference is broken, because "We recently updated AIRNow.gov". and apparently they think this is how you say "we've recently brokenb airnow.gov"

19:44

unless 'reducer' was meant in the ordinary, rather than chemist's, sense

19:44

i am certainly not taking any advice from these morons.

19:44

asciilifeform ordinary. makes them shorter.

19:44

the smelly parts are particularly susceptible, incidentally. both aromatics and sulphide types.

19:45

the linked crap has the basic idea, ozone works as well on the meat as on whatever you're fumigating against

19:45

don't sit and be gassed when fumigating.

19:45

asciilifeform the idea is to treat air with ozone in an ozone trap.

19:45

not to pump ozone into the atmosphere.

19:45

the linked thing was about machines that do precisely the latter

19:45

commonly sold in gringolandia as cure-alls

19:46

yes well, the epa idiocy was not finding the room, among very usefully distinctive verbiage like "Healthy people, as well as those with respiratory difficulty, can experience breathing problems when exposed to ozone.", to specify this

19:46

it's you know... kinda important. seeing how they didn't title it "a particularly braindamaged misimplementation of ozone air purifying"

19:47

if somebody wants to dig up the warning from 1920s (mentioned briefly in the modern usg one) would be interesting to read.

19:47

and almost certainly shorter

19:47

tbh, i don't know there exists material more intellectually objectionable than the shit pouring out of the usg.

19:47

reminds me of the damned soviets.

19:48

"USG - Army Of One, And They're All Retarded"

19:48

they didn't have cut&paste

19:48

modern usg has many advantages in bullshit production over predecessors

19:48

all but a working head.

19:49

(the soviets also didn't have microshit 'word', which helps illiterates to play-pretend by turning them into a kind of cyborg meat-assisted shannonizer)

19:49

myeah.

19:49

they were stuck to formulaics instead.

19:50

the total intellectual load placed on chumps was considerably lighter

19:50

most folks with any kind of brain at all, just ignored the slogans when off the clock

19:50

biggest shared 'in joke' in the world

19:50

usa - no such luck

19:51

The Express? ill-defined sources appear to want to tell a story about SIGINT succeeded rather then explain how it is that SIGINT failed (at least accor ding to the story getting told publicly).' << doh.

19:52

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 833 @ 0.012 = 9.996 BTC [-]

19:52

here's the long and the short of this story : you got two whores, just like in the chemistry and agriculture story. one's whomint, the other's slutmint. you gotta fuck either one or the other. they both have very specific, life altering constraints.

19:52

if you decide to fuck whomint, where the fuck is harry poter fanfic boy going to find money to pay for his groceries ?

19:52

he'll have to fucking walk on streets and talk to people and non-aspie shit like that.

19:53

he'd rather swallow a fistful of thumbtacks.

19:53

so you're stuck with slutmint. no matter what fucking happens, it's going to have been a story about how "we" definitely need more slutmint, and all the time and resources spent in the past on slutmint was a good idea.

19:53

tis what it is.

19:54

thought it was more mundane mechanism, where you absolutely must have elint for totalitarian control of the english world, where stoolie culture was not already well developed

19:54

we got slutmint and yekutzky can go on writing about what gangrene said to liberty valance or w/e.

19:54

(and at any rate feels too much like work)

19:54

asciilifeform imo this is entirely a subjective problem.

19:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23299 @ 0.0003713 = 8.6509 BTC [-] {3}

19:55

just like the retarded 17yo who thinks she's a supermodel perceives peoiple walking down the street as "her audience", the redditard generation will perceive everything as sigint rules. because... that's the only thing they can do.

19:56

what do you mean "it doesn't work" ? this presumes an alt-universe in which there are alternatives, so things could not work. the world they inhabit knows no such thing, and so... of course it works.

19:57

mircea_popescu: or they were trying to solve a different problem:

19:57

say, actually have every table and chair with microphone that sets off alarms if someone mutters a dissenting thought under his breath

19:57

no more festering resentment, as in soviet times

19:57

not that this is actually possible, necessarily, but -thinkable-

19:57

and that's enough for the buggers

19:57

that it's... thinkable.

19:57

your first doesn't lead to your second, so which do i admit, the first or the sercond ?

19:58

they want to solve the problem of turning man into livestock

19:59

that's a generous problem to solve, seeing how the part that'll ever get solved was never not solved, and the rest isn't happening.

19:59

didn't say it would happen, but the allure is irresistible to them

19:59

nonsense.

19:59

you're looking at a cat and seeing love. it's just a cat.

20:00

it's a hungry leopard

20:00

and 'loves' the delicious flesh.

20:00

only if you're chicklet sized.

20:01

the very notion that the us has any sort of purpose, not even conscious or expressible, but any sort whatsoever is ridiculous on its face. it has all the purpose of a shambling headless zombie. which is why they're stuck trying to invent nonsense, "women and gayz! anti pedo!!" etc.

20:01

it's the exact equivalent of german kids that are "anti nazi". orly ?

20:01

a tad late for that show.

20:02

thinking of the still-living flesh now, not the gangrenous

20:02

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043158 <<< plenty.

20:02

Logged on 05-03-2015 21:01:23; mike_c: There isn't much doubt that they took ulbricht's coins, right?

20:03

nsa, the fed, the nameless ones (tm), et al - are not run by the pheminist antinazi wtf crowd.

20:03

but the coins are moving. how does that work?

20:03

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043160 << the basis is that they made some claims, about selling coins, and then failed to deliver on the coiuns they alleged to sell.

20:03

Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:00; mike_c: i understand the theory :) I don't get the basis.

20:03

this is exactly identical to bfl delivering miners, with USMS playing the role of inaba.

20:04

coins move all the time.

20:04

anyway, the onus is not on observers to explain the usg. the usg made some claims, which were in due time proven false.

20:04

which they ignored.

20:05

sure, it's "not been 100% proven as a scam". this however isn't the criteria. you lie, you get caught, you're fucked.

20:08

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043164 << emphatically no.

20:08

Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:54; mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?

20:08

clinton ran own mail server, who knew lol http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b78ba433af3a45209668f745158d994c/clinton-ran-homebrew-computer-system-official-emails

20:08

House committee subpoenas Clinton emails in Benghazi probe ... ( http://bit.ly/1NmZ0yC )

20:08

the blockchain is not an evidentiary record for third parties.

20:09

"The development on Capitol Hill came the same day The Associated Press reported the existence of a personal email server traced back to the Chappaqua, New York, home of Clinton. The unusual practice of a Cabinet-level official running her own email server would have given Clinton who is expected to run for president in the 2016 campaign significant control over limiting access to her message archives."

20:09

derp. emails still travel in plaintext, and this is the sigint we get ?

20:09

exactly the same way btc tx travels in plaintext

20:10

clinton, etc. don't expect to lose anything if it gets out

20:10

because, to the extent is valuable - nonattributable

20:10

perhaps.

20:10

if tomorrow we get a 'leaked' clinton email where clitler reveals that she is medusa and can kill with headsnakes - what will change ?

20:10

asciilifeform clinton's going to claim 'hacked' when one of these emails shows something undue ?

20:11

or is doesn't matter what she claims ?

20:11

'respectable' mouthpieces won't touch the subject

20:11

it'll be like the 9/11 crap.

20:12

'xxxxx.' 'you're a nutter, go away'

20:12

well, clinton isn't the wtc

20:12

far from it.

20:13

she's a distraction at best and a fallguy at worst

20:13

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043230 << yeah srsly, etrade is iirc 30

20:13

Logged on 05-03-2015 21:40:01; mike_c: $5 / month is rich?

20:13

but hey, let's see her run and find out

20:13

mircea_popescu: it's rich if it's denominated in plutonium!

20:14

she's definitely the more intellectually capable husk they got floating around. who else, jeb, bush's retarded brother/cousin/sister in law ?

20:14

don't forget the other obama

20:15

the other obama is not really qualified to run kim's shoe boutique.

20:15

mircea_popescu i seem to recall you saying something to the effect of 'old women in power are the fucking worst'

20:15

is hillary exempt from this ?

20:16

pete_dushenski not my country, whadda i care. she's still the only not braidamaged runner so far.

20:16

<pete_dushenski> asciilifeform clinton's going to claim 'hacked' when one of these emails shows something undue ? << a good reason to use usg mailservers and own your keys

20:17

mircea_popescu except she's not running... yet.

20:17

yeah. right.

20:17

ben_vulpes: point was that these folks live in a perverse sandbox world where it literally doesn't matter what happens

20:17

which is why the democrats have alternatives. because she's not running.

20:17

asciilifeform 'the show must go on!'

20:17

as orlov pointed out

20:17

they don't care if they win a war, lose a war, here&there

20:18

it's a very long road (or so they think) to hitler's bunker and 'headsoff.com' being filmed on washington streets

20:18

mircea_popescu repblicans don't exactly 'have alternative', much less plural

20:19

mircea_popescu and i'd still bet a nickel on the republicans

20:19

dems might take even longer shot because ya, doesn't much matter.

20:20

pete_dushenski, pretty sure she can't announce nomination until such and such a date.. part of what made the bitbet bet's that clinton and rand would announce last year an easy win

20:20

might as well make an interesting ballot pairing of two people noone has ever heard of

20:20

<mircea_popescu> which is why the democrats have alternatives. because she's not running. << implying she might run in 8 years?

20:20

cazalla aha

20:20

ben_vulpes lol when she's 80

20:20

pete_dushenski: srs

20:21

76, but whatever.

20:21

77?

20:21

42!

20:21

that's the secret

20:21

answer.

20:23

kinda like 'where's osama's body?'

20:23

actually, osama's body is much like these usms auctions

20:24

many promises, only hollywood 'evidence'

20:24

'we made a movie and it won an oscar so history happened!'

20:24

*

adlai wonders what evidence you're expecting to see of the auctions

20:24

or the body

20:24

(does each u.s. citizen get a small piece?)

20:24

to taste, yes

20:25

like the wooly mammoth

20:26

and since osama is basically the usg's religious messiah, come to save it from internal destruction by providing an external enemy, why not make a whole church service around him

20:26

offering up his 'body and blood'

20:31

adlai 'the winner' getting out of dodge and never looking back would do.

20:32

otherwise, wtf is wrong with their heads.

20:33

so barring that much braindamage in a single vessle, we should see silbert or whoever packing their bags for rio de janeiro

20:42

it's a problem, the people who frequent such yardsales probably like hanging around the yard

20:48

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7868 @ 0.00036272 = 2.8539 BTC [+] {2}

20:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25732 @ 0.00038164 = 9.8204 BTC [+] {2}

20:50

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7968 @ 0.00038297 = 3.0515 BTC [+]

20:57

for some reason nobody mentioned the ugliest thing about ada

20:57

the 200k helloworld.

20:57

i ordered that "bible" you mentioned

20:57

pragma No_Run_Time;

20:57

with Interfaces.C; use Interfaces.C;

20:57

procedure Hello is

20:57

procedure Puts (Str : Char_Array);

20:57

pragma Import (C, Puts, "puts");

20:57

begin

20:57

Puts ("Hello, World!");

20:58

end Hello;

20:58

^ 6k on my box

20:58

but you can see how this cheats.

20:58

(both numbers refer to stripped elf's on an x86-64 box)

20:59

i managed to make ~60% ROI in the 13 months ive had a coinbr account

20:59

thanks jurov

20:59

danielpbarron: you will have a real bitch of a time learning the language from the standard and justification docs, if that's what you were thinking of doing

20:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4671 @ 0.00040988 = 1.9145 BTC [+]

21:00

not sure what i was thinking except that i like the chapter:verse thing

21:00

sounds like the book is timeless or something / probably a good investment

21:01

all serious technical docs 'written for the ages' ought to be in that format.

21:01

mats, was 60% enough to make up for the drop in USD/BTC price?

21:02

i found a used one for 60 USD (the new is twice that) and impulsively added it to another order i had pending

21:03

no, i bought a majority of it at 800 BTCUSD

21:03

danielpbarron: make sure it describes at least the '95' variant

21:03

at the earliest

21:04

mats, so your "gains" were really just you helping out the fiat traders / at least it beat buying bitcoin and doing nothing with it

21:04

asciilifeform, i searched for the code you mentioned in here, and yeah it says 95 in the title or whatever

21:05

danielpbarron: there are four adas - 83, 95, 2005, 2012

21:05

yes, thats the downside to having imperfect information

21:05

asciilifeform, http://www.amazon.com/dp/3540693351/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_asp_tErxI.1VXP299

21:05

Amazon.com: Ada 2005 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard ISO/IEC 8652/1995(E) with Technical Corrigendum 1 and Amendment 1 ... / Programming and Software Engineering) (9783540693352): S. Tucker Taft, Robert A. Duff, Randall L. Brukardt, Erhard Ploedereder, Pasca ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdeOgX )

21:06

ah apparently i got the 2005 one

21:06

get the 'rationale' too

21:06

that's the one with chapter & verse

21:06

or rather, they both have it

21:06

but error messages (in verbose mode) cite rationale, iirc

21:06

aren't those all published on the internet?

21:07

decimation: they are

21:07

i assumed he likes dead tree

21:08

http://comp.lang.ada.narkive.com/vnn86krY/size-of-linked-program-increasing-with-new-version-of-gnat << mega-flamew4r

21:08

Size of linked program increasing with new version of GNAT. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bdfkvo )

21:11

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043281 << it's actually how brokerages work irl.

21:11

Logged on 05-03-2015 21:51:43; jurov: thestringpuller that's exactly what i do have in mind

21:12

<ben_vulpes> "implying she might run in 8 years?" << no, being facetious.

21:12

it's plain obvious she's the democrat candidate.

21:12

asciilifeform: the wisdom I've picked up from my own experiments and reading about yours is that it seems the ada compiler you choose is critical

21:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6218 @ 0.00040946 = 2.546 BTC [-]

21:13

"18* adlai wonders what evidence you're expecting to see of the auctions" << complete misstatement of the situaiton. read the logs. search for "foia" might help

21:13

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=YrA1zuD2 << fucking scammerz

21:13

... ( http://bit.ly/1Bdgozi )

21:14

*

mircea_popescu is mildly offended at this "i will persist in being a redditard" attitude, for the record.

21:14

decimation: i tested on both available compilers, the foundation's and the gnu

21:14

decimation: same result

21:14

decimation: i did not test on any closed-source compiler because they don't exist on the planet i choose to live on

21:14

why is everyone complaining about ada

21:15

2 beers in and a few exercises this is not bad .jpeg

21:15

thestringpuller: because there is not actually an alternative to ada

21:15

and i think i'm the only one actually talking about it, for the most part

21:15

asciilifeform: you have reignited my love for computers again

21:15

despite your pessimism :D

21:16

*

asciilifeform wonders how

21:16

fun fact : elf does not contain a windows byte. netbsd, linux, system v etc.

21:16

why would it ?

21:16

microshit wasn't at the table

21:17

which is as it ought to be

21:17

not saying it should, merely pointing it out :D

21:19

wasn't it well known that microsoft stole the bsd IP stack for windows NT?

21:19

asciilifeform: i love old microshit tho. found a copy of 3d studio R1 from 1990, and it runs on ms dos

21:19

it's slightly poetic.

21:19

thestringpuller: what's that got to do with microshit?

21:19

TRON style i 'spose

21:19

lol mats made 60% bringing his losses to only 60%.

21:19

'3d studio' was an 'autodesk' product

21:19

ran in protected mode, too, using no actual msdos api

21:19

that runs on microshit dos

21:19

lol

21:20

*

asciilifeform spent what must have been a whole year playing with it as a kid

21:20

i can't bring myself to hate on DOS

21:20

thestringpuller: dos was not, properly speaking, a microshit product

21:20

stolen.

21:20

unlike which ?

21:20

yeah it was a stolen reimplemenation of cp/m as i recall

21:21

pretty much

21:21

i thought even windows and nt were "stolen"

21:21

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043293 << for the exact reason george costanza once pointed out. "it's there"

21:21

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:00:28; asciilifeform: i kinda wonder why poor folks are even interested in mpex (or, for that matter, schwab)

21:22

!s foia

21:22

40 results for 'foia' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=foia

21:22

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043306 << ahahaha zing

21:22

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:06:11; mike_c: yeah, some like ada :D

21:23

http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/#comment-160814 << sweet innocence.

↖ ↖ ↖

21:23

... ( http://bit.ly/1Bdii30 )

21:23

if one is willing to take this tack, i wonder why one's not going the whole nine yards and throwing out the keyboard.

21:23

"I JUST WANT THE COMPUTER TO FUCKING WORK!!!1"

21:24

mircea_popescu I thought you were just making a point about "I use this thing and it works" is so 90's

21:25

the entire "i want government to just work by itself and let me to my affairs" has worked splendidly in the us, 70s to 2000s.

21:25

apparently jwz wants to live in the past

21:25

not the past, as this never existed, but a magical future where things work by themselves in the way ~you~ want them to.

21:25

in exchange for nothing, mind

21:25

the crowning nonsense of all nonsense, seriously. why is it not obvious that if you give up agency you also give up... agency ?

21:25

he seems to want free tech support

21:25

mircea_popescu: this ancient fallacy has a name: 'dwim'

21:26

asciilifeform: are you familiar with dwimlisp?

21:26

right.

21:26

adlai: aha

21:27

http://dwimperl.com/

21:27

DWIM Perl - the Perl distribution that contains everything you'll ever need ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdjdAo )

21:27

since im in a ftr mood apparently.

21:28

dwim is the shortest possible summary of how illiterate folks imagine programming

21:28

or engineering in general

21:28

!s babbage

21:28

6 results for 'babbage' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=babbage

21:28

'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'

↖ ↖ ↖

21:28

apparently jwz's main business is running a club now

21:29

decimation: that's where he parked his 'escape rocket'

21:29

yeah he has a disco in la he's been fighting the gobmint forever over.

21:29

(for the curious/brave - http://dwim.hu (requires javascript and much searching as it's impossible to link into this 'website'))

21:29

i have always had a mild dislike for jwz and was never able to articulate why

21:29

asciilifeform why ?

21:29

asciilifeform: he strikes me as a washed-up do-o-crat

21:29

iirc he started out as a lisp hacker.

21:29

possibly because only fact i knew about him was him being involved in the dotcom bubble and being responsible for the steaming crock of shit that is netscape, and, by implication, the entire shit soup of www standards

21:30

uh.

21:30

he forked xemacs from gnu

21:30

mircea_popescu: almost all american programmers of a certain age once wrote lisp of some description

21:30

the www soup is scarcely to be pinned on one man, and if one man were to be found it's likely not this one.

21:30

getting rich off netscape feels vaguely unsavoury in my book

21:30

why ?

21:30

jws was an employee at netscape

21:31

rather junior one

21:31

well, for one thing they stole mosaic

21:31

anyway, not really pissing on the man in earnest here

21:31

just confessing that my overall burning hatred for the time, place, and culture in which he became rich & famous spills onto him.

21:32

i liked the 90s!

21:32

i may even go so far as to say i liked the 90s sv o.O

21:32

if i were to learn that he made his nightclub seed money by executing contract hits, rather than at netscape, i'd like him considerably more

21:33

he did piss off stallman

21:33

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043311 << "moving the market", in professional language "slippage" is not a desirable phenomenon but the bane of all existance.

21:33

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:07:20; danielpbarron: asciilifeform's got a good point though, with such little amounts you aren't going to move the market -- might as well just pretend trade in a txt file

21:33

mircea_popescu: i'm sure the denizens liked it also. but as al said, 'first ecstasy, then laundry.' we're living with the results of '90s sv.

21:33

adlai: it's probably impossible to do something positive to emacs without pissing off stallman

21:33

mircea_popescu: that's somewhat like saying that 'engineers hate friction'

21:33

or anything else for that matter.

21:34

not exactly false, but no mechanical device would function if friction did not exist

21:34

asciilifeform slippage is not friction, slippage is your lab getting hit by earthquakes.

21:34

but what if the lab is not a lab, but a bomb whose entire purpose is to trigger earthquake

21:34

"how the fuck am i supposed to do any scioence in here!111"

21:34

that is the EXACT feeling it evokes in financeheads.

21:35

i'm not sure the constructive uses of friction have any parallel either... beyond maybe as a cost of manipulation (when you don't control the tape)

21:35

*

asciilifeform is not aware of any successful instances of 'moving market', other than brute affairs like buterin's waterfall or the earlier and better-known gold price suppression scheme

21:35

netscape is a fine example.

21:35

asciilifeform: buterin's waterfall is leaky tho.

21:37

asciilifeform: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

21:37

Silver Thursday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdkVBV )

21:37

asciilifeform you will remember we're discussing markets here. the phenomenon of alleged "prices" in a situation where the government is the largest economic actor is laughable anyway.

21:37

^

21:37

moldbug has a post about why central banks spend most of their time trying to figure out how to not move the market

21:37

any system where taxes exceed maybe 6 or 7% is de facto a command economy,

21:37

generally a very poorly implemented one

21:38

i would love to be taxed at 7%

21:38

my God what country is that?!?

21:38

a sim city still set to defaults

21:38

!b 3

21:38

Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2NED0VT.txt )

21:39

danielpbarron is my all time favorite person now

21:39

the funny thing is

21:39

thestringpuller: what country << generally, the 'orc world' where laws aren't actually enforced unless you piss people off

21:39

that if 7% is still too high for high wealth sims

21:39

like seriously, high wealth sims are only happy at like 4%

21:39

your cities fill up with poor people >7%

21:40

i could never get everyone happy even when i used to glitch to get "MAXINT" currency units

21:40

keep typing FUNDS. QE infinity.

21:40

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/01/greg_page_on_fo.html > "And there have always been voices to let market signals determine how farmers planted their crops. Don't make people grow cotton just to maintain their base acres in the cotton program, when the world is crying out for more soybeans to feed itself."

21:40

" + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdlQT2 )

21:41

where i live, 40% is considered pretty good.

21:41

this is how I imagined QE though, some d00d at Fed typing "FUNDS FUNDS FUNDS" over again on his computer.

21:41

asciilifeform: that's not even counting the fact that usd in your 'savings' account is continually thieved

21:41

decimation: aha

21:41

speaking just of old-fashioned taxes

21:41

401k is a scam

21:41

and enron ruined pensions for everyone

21:42

good thing i don't expect to live to pension age

21:42

I was just looking at the 'mid-cap value' fund from vanguard

21:42

(nor, in general, should other u.s. folks, unless they're already very old)

21:42

the 'value' forward p/e was 30!

21:42

asciilifeform that is depressing!

21:43

asciilifeform: what are you gonna do? withdraw your retirement with penalty and move to mexico?

21:43

decimation: what made you think i have anything to withdraw ?

21:43

asciilifeform: surely you get paid a little extra

21:44

asciilifeform contribute 0

21:44

per paycheck

21:44

instead his retirement is held in cyborgs and robots

21:44

thestringpuller: i don't even work at a place where they ask the question any more

21:44

so you are pretty much robot worker?

21:45

?

21:45

employer treats you like thing and not person

21:45

neh, sorta the opposite

21:45

but contractor

21:45

these get paid in money

21:45

asciilifeform: even the fall of the soviet union didn't kill off all the former soviets

21:45

(what passes for money in this part of the world)

21:45

what do you think is going to kill us off?

21:45

trinque: read orlov's 'post-soviet lessons' to learn why the analogy does not apply

21:45

k

21:46

trinque: know that no one in the ussr needed to pay rent

21:46

asciilifeform: hey you're the one who can't spend benjies without setting off alarms.

21:46

i'm doing just fine with my duffelbag full of cash here.

21:46

trinque: (a token sum was collected, but no one could be evicted for any reason short of death or having new digs in prison)

21:46

thestringpuller: i don't get paid in benjies

21:46

my employer said this is totally normal tho!

21:47

thestringpuller: but, like most folks in my profession, in 'legit' electric bzollarz

21:47

for a 'legit' firm, that keeps a single set of books and files taxes, etc

21:47

that 1099

21:48

aha

21:48

asciilifeform: http://www.zillow.com/blog/rents-up-not-where-you-expect-170427/ < rents in the us are nearly 10% YoY in some cities

21:48

Rents Are Up, and Not Where You Might Expect | Zillow Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nnjffr )

21:48

*

asciilifeform is aware that we're probably boring the folks outside the u.s. zoolag to tears

21:48

so tru story: buddy from high school was telling me about d00d who was a drug dealer but setup "consulting" llc for "professional coaching"

21:48

d00d would just sell high end weed, and claim it as "consulting services" and would tax that

21:49

ended up retiring before 40

21:49

sure, "computer repair"

21:49

d00d even made invoices for his recurring clientelle

21:49

pretty sure no one went to jail

21:49

yeah, I'm referring to a former friend of mine

21:49

"on site computer repair" bullshit

21:50

laundries are as old as the state itself

21:50

you can still go to jail for tax evasion

21:51

US just wants their cut (not like it helps since we are bankrupt)

21:51

well... "bankrupt"

21:51

incidentally, you will not necessarily go to jail - but the duffel bag - will.

21:51

if ever 'caught'

21:51

asciilifeform: i kno rite?!?

21:51

so there is new drug unit in west georgia now

21:52

soul purpose is collecting those duffelbags

21:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5029 @ 0.00040988 = 2.0613 BTC [+]

21:52

in fact it is richest police unit in that county

21:52

wait till they switch from plain static robbery to racket

21:53

as always happens in a collapsing police state

21:53

http://www.sheriff.douglas.ga.us/find.html << it is more of racket now me thinks

21:53

the "evidence" is probably auctioned off under the table somewhere

21:54

"The F.I.N.D. Unit has made forty-eight (48) traffic stops that resulted in the detection of bulk cash smugglers."

21:54

"The total amount of United States Currency seized from the stops is: $13,647,160" << they just want new toys

21:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00040519 = 5.9563 BTC [-] {2}

21:55

https://github.com/search?q=gnatelim&type=Code << who can find anything there which isn't a) word salad or b) part of gcc ?

21:55

Search · gnatelim · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NnkATM )

21:55

has gnatelim -ever- been fired in anger?

21:55

by anyone ?

21:56

PeterL

mircea_popescu: Is F.DERP statement coming soon?

21:57

*

asciilifeform was just ip-banned by 'github' for 'too many requests from your addr'

21:57

apparently no one actually reads it in earnest

21:58

*

asciilifeform examines source of 'gnatelim' and it appears that it is only able to snip dead code that is -actually represented in your source-

21:58

why would you have dead routines in your own source?

21:58

severe head trauma in childhood ?

22:00

PeterL being prepared. there's definitely going to be one.

22:01

asciilifeform 40% or 90% is purely a wordchoice matter, much like the zhim thing. 5%ish is where it matters.

22:02

aha, it's like the decision of how many thousand volts to use in electric chair

22:02

thestringpuller> and enron ruined pensions for everyone << if only. "My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to i

22:02

n his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on."

22:03

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00040327 = 8.7913 BTC [-] {2}

22:05

found via reading orlov's Lessons >> http://dieoff.org/

22:05

OVERSHOOT LOOP: Evolution Under The Maximum Power Principle ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdrODl )

22:05

* asciilifeform was just ip-banned by 'github' for 'too many requests from your addr' << lmao.

22:05

this takes the fucking cake,

22:06

open source is safe because it's read by millions of eyes, which we ban.

22:08

was flipping through search results

22:08

of that crud

22:08

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043334 << it would not. godel problem / surprise executio nproblem manifested for your convenience as slippage i guess.

22:08

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:12:30; asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?

22:08

*

asciilifeform suspected

22:09

asciilifeform for all the major differences between them and us, it occurs to me there's a very painfully obvious stylistical point : b-a.com doesn't have traffic tracking, github.com doesn't let you search.

22:09

verrrrry deep this "minor point'

22:09

yet one or more optimal play variants must exist (in the sense the 'optimal' minimax game of chess exists. not in the sense that you could actually play that game or ever see so much as one move of it in life)

22:09

asciilifeform nope. the notion of "optimal" is undefined.

22:09

b-a.com doesn't log?

22:09

(log itself, not the channel)

22:09

adlai not iirc.

22:10

!s don't keep logs

22:10

1 results for 'don't keep logs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=don%27t+keep+logs

22:10

mircea_popescu: defined as 'what bits would you send back in time to time T1, if you could, from time T2, to maximize profit from investing C coin'

22:10

hm. it was discussed but i think long long ago, pre searchable stuff.

22:10

asciilifeform this isn't a definition tho.

22:11

"what would happen if it didn't happen ?"

22:11

it's an existence proof

22:11

say we limit the length of the string

22:11

nope. you use in one phase symbols that don't exist of the other.

22:11

therefore one or more possible strings would result in max C'

22:11

'(what bits would you send back in time to time T1), if you could, from time T2, (to maximize profit from investing C coin)'

22:11

part 2 presumes part 1 doesn't exist.

22:12

*

asciilifeform can see where mircea_popescu is going - 'no clockwork universe' - but a trading engine in sufficiently small time span does behave rather like a clockwork universe

22:12

yes, it does, provided you don't take it out of there.

22:12

but you're proposing to do exactly that.

22:12

the moment you start doin this sort of thing it no longer behaves thusly.

22:13

mircea_popescu doesn't 'believe in' infinitesimals either, does he

22:13

to put this to intuition : suppose in the alt-universe where your microscopic trade happened, another trader happened to see it and panic.

22:13

'butterfly' ?

22:13

sure

22:14

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0060/6102/products/book_buy_sell_sell_new_1024x1024.jpg?v=1291137799

22:14

... ( http://bit.ly/1Bdt9tO )

22:14

*

asciilifeform read time machine stories as a kid just like everybody else

22:15

there are a number of hard rules of the world we inhabit, that children take some time to internalize. one is, of course, "move backwards through time" thing. what adolescent did not ponder this, wish it, etc.

22:15

another is the complexity problem. the simple fact that once the father has said "i know shit", if he opens his mouth enough to say as little as some basic math, he's now wrong.

22:15

they are of course related.

22:16

When we differ, Charlie usually ends the conversation by saying: “Warren,

22:16

think it over and you’ll agree with me because you’re smart and I’m right.”

22:16

in any event, all human folly is based on the failure to come to terms and trying to go through the wall.

22:16

like, the complexity problem guarantees no government will ever succeed. yet who's deterred from "empirebuilding".

22:17

the time direction thing never stopped anyone from thinking "hey, i could have done better!" or be bitter about how things turned out etc.

22:17

the mouse is only really alive because he tries to go through the glass bottle

22:17

at all times

22:17

asciilifeform but this is from cause.

22:17

now look at it from the fallacious "purpose" perspective.

22:17

is he alive because he... means to ?

22:17

because he thinks he should have ?

22:18

does steam 'mean to' burst a boiler with plugged valve ?

22:18

take this with a grain of salt, but here it is :

22:18

the 'purpose' thing is just a demented lens for viewing anything

22:18

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00040988 = 3.6889 BTC [+]

22:19

at its core, the "optimal retrospective investment" problem is a nude and rude proposition to replace the action imperative ("mouse must escape or die in the act of trying") with an imaginary junk. ("it could have been"). this is not substantially different from what the usg does when it invents a new name for the homeless and pretends to have "resolved the problem".

22:19

it "works" like all fatlogic works : because it's easier

22:20

but otherwise, utter waste of time.

22:21

mircea_popescu: if waste of time, then what is the correct answer that machine like 'scalpl' is actually approximating when it grinds ?

22:21

it doesn't exist.

22:21

what is the correct code gcc approximates as it churns on cygwin ?

22:21

it provably exists

22:21

(not by demonstration. but by deduction)

22:21

for as long as the proof is wrong, yes, it provably exists.

22:21

right.

22:22

the mere fact that you have such proof is sufficient proof that it is wrong.

22:22

its mere presence suffices.

22:23

somewhat perverted understanding here

22:23

far be it from me to diss fiction - the creation of "proofs" we know from the outset to be false and then their taking apart to examine where they stole our eyes is exactly shakespeare's trade.

22:23

is only non-provable in the general case

22:23

but this is the general case.

22:23

for arbitrarily many specific cases - provable.

22:23

for trivial example, the shortest program which does nothing at all is ''.

22:23

only if they don't include it. once you've included it... you've made it general.

22:23

works on most machines, even!

22:23

lol

22:23

no but see ?

22:24

for the original line of reasoning, see chaitin.

22:24

looky here : for as long as you don't aim to use the "shortest program" thing for the purpose of attacking my statement, it is ok.

22:24

once you do, you're fucked. "works on most machines" now.

22:25

*

asciilifeform did carefully specify that the 'ideal play' is not actually findable

22:25

in the general case.

22:25

well... chaitin and torkel should be refered together

22:26

very naggum-ish character actually. except iirc swedish

22:26

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043344 << hehe

22:26

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:35; asciilifeform: you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot << impossible by definition

22:27

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043343 << anyway, this is what triggered the discussion, and to move on to more practical considerations :

22:27

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:19; asciilifeform: understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve

22:28

making money is not a function of one's hard work and dilligence in the schoolhouse sense.

22:29

what - in the actual world people inhabit - *is* a function of it?

22:29

making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.

↖ ↖ ↖ ↖

22:29

if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.

↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖

22:29

otherwise, there are some classes of optimization problems ~once you're already rich~.

22:29

l0l

22:30

but this is conservation. one does not acquire wealth except one single way

22:30

this is exactly how sov. textbooks described stock markets!

22:30

and that is, joining the wot early, and helping set the world on fire. it. strictly it.

22:30

the hoodlums trying to be drug lords in detroit have a lot more sense in this matter than the "business majors" coming out of harvard.

22:30

(some of the latter get it, but rare is that bird).

22:30

'have low serial number on your party card' ?

22:31

asciilifeform well, us had a much better view of the soviets than the soviets, and vice-versa.

22:31

*

asciilifeform not convinced that the hoodlums have more 'sense' than the mouse in the bottle

22:31

the mouse in the bottle is a superlative of sense.

22:31

there's no more sense to be had.

22:31

sure there is. an ant can bite in milliseconds.

22:31

smaller nervous system, elementary

22:32

so ?

22:32

the mouse thing is really about the virtues of not-thinking, no ?

22:32

no ?

22:33

it's about not spending your time writing fiction under the pretense of "thinking". the mouse excels at this.

22:33

in that he doesn't have anything like an accurate internal model of his situation, in the bottle

22:33

but he does.

22:33

really?

22:33

that's the thing. he does, more so than bill gates.

22:33

mouse understands glass better than the bird (recall the bird film i posted? also persistent beast, also against glass!)

22:34

he doesn't understand the implementation details. but the situation, he understands just fine.

22:34

i'm quite unconvinced that the bird did

22:34

prolly not.

22:34

(he was trying to get -in-, for no apparent reason, rather than escape a jar)

22:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35506 @ 0.00041126 = 14.6022 BTC [+] {2}

22:35

birds are really closer to insects than mammals.

22:35

from a software perspective.

22:35

it's basically a sort of windows nt, to replace windows 3.1. look, flashier plumage and mating dances!

22:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10994 @ 0.00041265 = 4.5367 BTC [+] {2}

22:36

incidentally, i'm rather curious re: how a social animal (rat, wolf) would do in the bottle

22:36

i once found a fox leg in a bear trap.

22:36

fight the glass to the death - or 'submit' to it as to a 'commanding officer'

22:36

fox is famous for just this

22:37

but not really pack animal, afaik

22:37

i guess not really no.

22:38

!b 4

22:38

Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2NJFTX3.txt )

22:38

i once caught a groundhog (marmota monax) in a zoological (cage) trap

22:38

it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up

22:39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE1alBZ-qXI < there's a whole youtube genre of X vs. Y animal

22:39

Brown Recluse vs Wolf Spider Who will win - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdwOYI )

22:39

obligatory:

22:39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur9fbRz4GxE

22:39

Великая битва слона с китом.avi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdwSaX )

22:40

"superman beetle vs flash spider"

22:41

http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearing/hearing-ukraine-under-siege nuland vs ukraine

22:41

Hearing: Ukraine Under Siege | House Committee on Foreign Affairs - Ed Royce, Chairman ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdxddG )

22:41

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043399 << eh dun worry, tis not about you.

22:41

Logged on 05-03-2015 22:36:47; jurov: i'm trying to make do under some constraints, which i explained several time here

22:41

you're doin; fine.

22:43

well anyway, see y'all tomorro

22:48

<asciilifeform> it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up << They tend to do that. Catch a good number with bad intentions towards the garden that way.

22:49

Strictly catch and release though.

22:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00041387 = 2.0073 BTC [+]

22:54

Granted it normally takes the better part of a salad to make the cage traps enticing to groundhogs

22:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5418 @ 0.00041576 = 2.2526 BTC [+] {2}

22:57

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 435 @ 0.0125 = 5.4375 BTC [+]

23:01

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 228 @ 0.0381 = 8.6868 BTC [-]

23:14

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00041129 = 5.5524 BTC [-] {2}

23:22

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17007 @ 0.00040558 = 6.8977 BTC [-] {2}

23:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00041851 = 5.1267 BTC [+]

~ 17 minutes ~

23:52

Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 83.1718 BTC. Current weight: 84,321.

23:56

can we get scoopbot on the therealbitcoin list ?

23:57

http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000057.html http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000058.html << congrats mod6

23:57

... ( http://bit.ly/1DRhW0E )

23:57