Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-03-21 | 2015-03-23 → ↓
00:00 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063215 <<< note the important takeaway here. nothing keeps people in other places with shit banks from being intelligent, getting in wot, becoming part of the actual bitcoin marketplace. there's people here from all over the world. over time, a low effort / consumer thing like btcjam HAS TO devolve into the typical check advance / spam loan operation.
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00:00 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:26:33; felipelalli: and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you.
00:00 trinque felipelalli: there was a previous iteration which I will soon dump the history into the present incarnation
00:00 mircea_popescu there are market forces pushing things certain ways and into certain niches, invisible hand and al lthat.
00:02 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063235 << there really isn't much requirement to speak any particular language or anything.
00:02 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:50:53; PeterL: do the speak english?
00:02 mircea_popescu the beauty of the wot system is that it readily fragments, and whoever bridges bridges.
00:03 mircea_popescu felipelalli has the opportunity to become a sort of speaker for the dead as it were, for a certain set of dead.
00:04 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063240 << actually, yes, i do. do you understand why they did that ?
00:04 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:52:03; felipelalli: But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different.
00:04 felipelalli lol mircea_popescu
00:05 felipelalli mircea_popescu: no, may I know why?
00:05 mircea_popescu well yes : suppose they have 500 users, which is about where intel puts it.
00:06 mircea_popescu now, out of those 500, there's like ... 2 ike you. your "wot added value" is say 10 each.
00:06 mircea_popescu there's another 48 dudes who are kinda derpy but still useful, their avg "wot added value is 1 each.
00:06 mircea_popescu that's it. the 500 sums up to 70 value.
00:07 mircea_popescu if they change it like they did, willy nilly it's 0.02 per, which comes to... 100. which is more.
00:07 mircea_popescu in short : you were so diluted by idiots you didn't even realise your sum total human effort was worth less than a systematic, spammy approach to things.
00:08 mircea_popescu sure, to you going from 10 to 0.2 is a terrible loss.
00:08 mircea_popescu but for them, going from a 70 aggregate to a 100 aggregate is a net gain.
00:08 felipelalli mircea_popescu: well thought out.
00:08 mircea_popescu and so then you leave, and so they lost like, one of the two guys that actually did something, and that's the end of it.
00:08 mircea_popescu which, again, is why things go certain ways, invisible hand and all that.
00:08 mircea_popescu economics is not fanfiction.
00:09 felipelalli mircea_popescu: amazing reasoning.
00:09 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
00:09 mircea_popescu visible across the whole spectrum, how do you think myspace went from selling for a billion to turner to selling for 18 mn or w/e it sold off to.
00:11 mircea_popescu and this is incidentally why i said earlier that they are not a business in the first place. it doesn't fucking matter what "others think". others don'tthink, others bray. thinking is above. and the thinking is, it takes two days for them to lose half the userbase that matters.
00:11 mircea_popescu this is not a business.
00:11 mircea_popescu it's an accident, and from the equity perspective, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
00:12 felipelalli mircea_popescu: it is a pitty because it was (a kind of - or has potential to be) useful.
00:13 felipelalli *pity
00:13 mircea_popescu yeah well...
00:13 mircea_popescu anyway, as to the interest rates, there was a discussion recently, and no, business rates aren't per month, you want to pay what, 3ish% a year or some shit.
00:14 felipelalli this what they call APR
00:14 decimation the 10 year treasuries are just under 2% in usd
00:14 mircea_popescu apr is a consumer concept.
00:14 decimation this tends to be a benchmark for those who are fronting money for business
00:14 mircea_popescu we're talking corporate debentures here.
00:14 felipelalli but in Brazil we are used to use per month. Maybe because per year would be ridiculous huge.
00:14 mircea_popescu well also because your country just collapsed
00:15 mircea_popescu for the howeverth time.
00:15 decimation people do business in loans per month?
00:15 felipelalli yes
00:15 mircea_popescu decimation you seen that btw ? delma found herself with like 2mn people in the capital.
00:15 mircea_popescu decimation yes, people in africa, basically.
00:15 felipelalli in Brazil too
00:15 decimation was it a march for equality
00:15 felipelalli BTCJam CEO is a Brazilian by the way
00:16 mircea_popescu something like that, yeah. fucking scary by the looks of it.
00:16 trinque felipelalli: http://deedbot.org/348645-15v9VrTNUA1oRzpv3u5b9DyPJqnn14RycR.txt << ding!
00:16 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkDT0d )
00:16 felipelalli friend of a personal close friend.
00:16 trinque I too... love ass channel.
00:16 mircea_popescu i was like o.O woman's getting beheaded.
00:16 felipelalli trinque: thank you! I thought you are kidding when you said YOU would send me! :)
00:16 mircea_popescu i think undata's going for that whole "manic customer support" angle.
00:17 mircea_popescu buncha sv hipsters.
00:17 danielpbarron felipelalli, here's the tx 86010f67d16fb690be5a9682403c5a49adccf496ae8e3c0a756a1351993e9bca
00:17 felipelalli mircea_popescu: why bitcoin is so undervalued?
00:17 decimation lol she was an actual communist rebel
00:17 felipelalli any thoughts about that?
00:17 decimation basically the dead hand of su derping around the americas
00:17 mircea_popescu decimation one that got pretty well corrupted at the petrobras trough
00:18 decimation well, the irony is that obama is a product of the other side
00:18 trinque mircea_popescu: haha, fuck the valley; I'd rather be here.
00:18 mircea_popescu anyway, brazil's actually in a better position in sa than the us is in na.
00:18 trinque felipelalli: I'll have the rest of the lever-pulling automated before long
00:18 mircea_popescu if they pack it and leave everyone else's reduced to hunting wooly mamooths with bows and arrows.
00:19 felipelalli trinque: nice!!
00:19 * asciilifeform associates brazil primarily with spam and poorly written virii
00:20 asciilifeform and ocelots.
00:20 mircea_popescu nah, it's an industrial powerhouse.
00:20 * asciilifeform knows this. theoretically.
00:20 mircea_popescu of course, exactly how the color revolution's gonna go...
00:21 mircea_popescu i dun think dept of state's too happy about it.
00:21 decimation yeah they have been coloring red for the past decade
00:21 felipelalli guess who I am: https://plus.google.com/+FelipeMicaroniLalliFML/posts/1LJVP7mk6wH
00:21 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkEDmi )
00:21 decimation outflanking usg from the left is a common pattern worldwide
00:22 asciilifeform felipelalli: the one whose sign levitates ?
00:22 felipelalli AHHAHA
00:22 felipelalli all sign levitates actually
00:23 felipelalli this happened in protests here in Brazil
00:24 trinque felipelalli: what do you think of the water situation there?
00:24 felipelalli trinque: not a problem at all.
00:24 felipelalli trinque: not a real problem, I guess.
00:24 decimation mises & hayek were (classical) liberal statists in the final analysis
00:25 trinque felipelalli: interesting, just news hysteria?
00:25 felipelalli decimation: I know. That sign of Mises was not mine.
00:25 decimation I think there were a few trilema posts on this point
00:25 felipelalli The mine was about Bitcoin :)
00:25 felipelalli trinque: gov control I guess
00:25 decimation nevertheless, I'd have a beer with the guy :)
00:26 felipelalli they can blame the people: "you are wasting water"
00:27 felipelalli If I am not wrong, I sent an email to mircea_popescu asking his political position, or I regret to send.
00:37 decimation !up huseby
~ 17 minutes ~
00:55 * mircea_popescu doesn't really do this entire private thing. ask him here, it's what the here is for after all.
00:55 mircea_popescu unrelatedly, water : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l36by2AEsD1qz7ltxo1_1280.jpg
00:55 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FnoZnx )
01:03 cazalla looks a bit like natalie portman
01:05 mircea_popescu not the throat tho
01:13 felipelalli mircea_popescu: ok! :-) So, what is your political position, if you want to say about that.
01:17 mircea_popescu political how ?
01:17 mircea_popescu i've been saying plenty about it, here and on the blog
01:21 felipelalli mircea_popescu: that's why I regret to send, now I remember!! ahahhah I knew you would say that.
01:22 felipelalli political for me is: is statist. is not.
01:27 mircea_popescu o.O
01:31 felipelalli This was funny: http://imgur.com/ICidotc did you see that?
01:31 assbot Still waiting for.... - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/19cBNi9 )
~ 24 minutes ~
01:55 mircea_popescu I downloaded all five seasons of The Wire from The Pirate Bay
01:55 mircea_popescu And studied all their OPSEC and legalities of what to say
01:55 mircea_popescu ok that thing's epic.
02:01 cazalla i got part way through season 2 and didn't bother going any further.. the wire is the most overrated series evar
~ 34 minutes ~
02:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00027195 = 6.2956 BTC [-]
02:46 fluffypony I keep meaning to give it a watch
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
04:06 cazalla sheeeeeeit fluffypony, i wouldn't bother unless you're down for some gay whistling nignogs with shotguns
04:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00027195 = 9.7494 BTC [-]
~ 18 minutes ~
04:25 punkman https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CArQElgUMAAYlqX.jpg:large
04:25 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1EAwkL3 )
04:26 punkman cazalla: I'd say most overrated has to be Walking Dead these days
04:27 cazalla punkman, agreed, i only watched a season or two of that before giving up.. same shit every episode
04:27 cazalla every boardwalk empire went to shit in the last 2 seasons
04:27 cazalla even*
04:29 punkman I'd put The Wire in the top ten though, I quite enjoyed it
04:29 punkman maybe I should grab that remastered version
04:44 trinque punkman: that ad... incredible
04:45 trinque later, teaching the controversy! is glacial melt a bad thing?
~ 19 minutes ~
05:05 punkman https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAoXyCnU8AAHQQO.jpg:large
05:05 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hl1bBn )
05:12 punkman http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html
05:12 assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GFZESS )
05:13 punkman "after a while, she had to return to the safe space. “I was feeling bombarded by a lot of viewpoints that really go against my dearly and closely held beliefs,” "
05:14 fluffypony trinque: obviously it's a good thing, it means more water, and since the advent of quality bottled water the consumption of water around the globe has increased
05:14 fluffypony also it's just the top of the iceberg that is exposed to the sun, most of it is underwater so it's fine
05:14 fluffypony /s
05:15 trinque maybe if we tell the glacier it's triggering us with its microaggression, it'll stop
05:15 trinque bam double reply
05:15 trinque we are so ill equipped to deal with any problem rationally, let alone sea level rise
05:16 fluffypony lol
05:16 trinque we being this insane social aggregate I'm forced to participate in
05:18 punkman sounds like you need a safe space :P
05:18 trinque I think we just solved it, representative democracy is a trauma I can no longer acknowledge exists
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05:19 trinque as for the glaciers, I am not informed enough to know whether they'd be dumping into the ocean with or without us
05:25 punkman http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/21/world/arctic-sea-ice/
05:25 assbot Arctic sea ice hits lowest winter maximum on record - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hl5BIx )
05:25 punkman "lowest maximum"
05:26 punkman "Meanwhile, the summer minimum ice extent reached in the Antarctic was one of the highest recorded"
05:27 punkman I don't particularly care since I don't live in Tuvalu or wherever
~ 51 minutes ~
06:18 fluffypony ;;later tell BingoBoingo what http://i.imgur.com/pFgteaX.jpg
06:18 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hlgn1d )
06:18 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 33 minutes ~
06:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00027826 = 4.5356 BTC [+] {2}
06:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00027033 = 9.4616 BTC [-]
~ 48 minutes ~
07:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93486 @ 0.00026917 = 25.1636 BTC [-] {4}
07:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55064 @ 0.00026736 = 14.7219 BTC [-] {2}
07:47 mats it falls
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
09:01 danielpbarron height=291663 vs height=214499
~ 17 minutes ~
09:18 mats fun fact: Chrome has an entire PDF serializer just for print preview - it creates a PDF of the page and then renders that in PDFium.
~ 38 minutes ~
09:57 nubbins` pete_dushenski are you advancing the opinion that colombian touts are nicer or friendlier than jamaican touts?
09:57 nubbins` 'cause if that's the case, jamaica must be *unbearable*
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09:57 nubbins` like, marrakesh-style unbearable
09:58 nubbins` anyway, third-world tourism is an interesting thing
10:01 nubbins` "So that the locals here seemvii to have an unwarranted expectation of my generosity" <<< unwarranted how? every whitey that goes to jamaica spends a ton of money.
10:01 nubbins` it's precisely warranted
10:02 nubbins` (GDP per capita <$6k)
10:04 nubbins` "sourcing their ingredients from within spitting distance, thus keeping the revenue in the local economy" <<< you mean keeping their /expenditures/ in the local economy. their revenue goes elsewhere, unless they're the ones buying all the dimebags.
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10:05 nubbins` i dunno, man. this whole article gets a C-
10:05 nubbins` the only reason MP gets away with being a prick is because his articles are circuitous enough that it's not worth the effort to construct counter-arguments
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10:06 nubbins` but if you lay it all bare, saggy tits flopping to the sides... don't expect people to kiss it
10:08 nubbins` and FWIW most of the arawaks (native to jamaica) were sold into slavery or died from smallpox. they still have blood in the caribbean, just not in jamaica
10:08 nubbins` lot ended up in haiti
10:14 nubbins` "the Jamaican people by and large, though we’ve certainly seen exceptions, have much to learn when it comes to treating their patrons with the respectful reverence they deserve" <<< you've *got* to be taking the piss here.
10:16 nubbins` consider that "respectful reverence" (lel) is precisely a waste of time in such situations. if their first impression is that you're an asshole, why would they go further? almost certainly it's not worth the effort. save the smiles for the 200 other suckers who were on your plane, and who will gladly open the wallet
10:16 nubbins` if you want to see respectful reverence, stay at a resort
10:17 nubbins` bask in the glory of being surrounded by wholly artificial personalities in wholly artificial surroundings
10:17 nubbins` that's what you *really* wanted, yes?
10:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34396 @ 0.00027849 = 9.5789 BTC [+]
10:18 nubbins` bit late to claim that you really wanted to see "jamaica" if you're complaining that the guy selling beads on the beach wouldn't polish your knob
10:21 nubbins` punkman:I'd put The Wire in the top ten though, I quite enjoyed it <<< +1
~ 21 minutes ~
10:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.00371316 = 1.1139 BTC [-]
~ 19 minutes ~
11:02 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 350 @ 0.00371316 = 1.2996 BTC [-]
~ 55 minutes ~
11:58 asciilifeform nubbins`: i thought the arawaks were picked off for target practice by columb's crew
11:58 asciilifeform nubbins`: though i also recall from his logs that a great many ran off cliffs also
12:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64554 @ 0.00027634 = 17.8389 BTC [-] {2}
12:14 asciilifeform http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/french-court-orders-picassos-electrician-to-return-nearly-300-artworks << bezzle lords have legal title to the bezzle, it seems
12:15 assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/19IN3nL )
12:15 jurov http://ergofabulous.org/luther/ luther was naggum of his time :D
12:15 assbot Lutheran Insulter :: List of Insults ... ( http://bit.ly/19IN3nP )
12:16 jurov "It seems I must have liars and villains for opponents. I am not worthy in the sight of God that a godly and honorable person should discuss these matters with me in a Christian way. This is my greatest lament."
12:17 asciilifeform re: picasso article: i can easily imagine a 'Dark Future of Hello Kitty' (TM) where a plebe found with ten fifty is prosecuted because 'he could only have obtained them by stealing from j.p.morgan, stop telling lies, there's no other way'
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12:17 asciilifeform *with fifty btc
12:22 jurov it also means picasso's work was defacto nationalized
12:22 jurov what would be interesting precedent
12:28 asciilifeform not nationalized as such (perhaps if it were confiscated to put in museum ?) but given to a designated darling of the state
12:28 asciilifeform because 'prove you didn't steal it' if you aren't one
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12:29 jurov "You are pious and honest people, who cannot do anything but calumniate and lie."
12:30 jurov "You are jugglers of imaginary sins."
~ 21 minutes ~
12:52 asciilifeform the picasso thing is a mega-l0l
12:52 asciilifeform because, among other things, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-03-2015#1044115
12:52 assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:25; mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
12:53 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2015#1044114
12:53 assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:02; mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.
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12:56 asciilifeform is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz.
↖ ↖
12:59 asciilifeform ;;ticker
12:59 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 261.23, Best ask: 261.24, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 261.27, 24 hour volume: 8712.7218436, 24 hour low: 258.67, 24 hour high: 263.55, 24 hour vwap: None
13:00 asciilifeform ;;calc (130*10**6)/261.23
13:00 gribble 497645.752785
13:00 asciilifeform if you have half a mil btc, you actually have them
13:00 asciilifeform but if you have a picasso - it is nothing without also having the blue blood.
13:01 asciilifeform only buys you a ticket to the jail.
~ 35 minutes ~
13:36 jurov haven't you just argued that for you, half a mil btc is equally as useless as that picasso?
13:36 jurov at least, once irs catches air of them?
13:44 jurov !up airgapped
13:44 jurov !up Pierre_Rochard
13:46 Pierre_Rochard jurov: once irs catches air of them, they’re 39.6% less useful
13:49 punkman is there even any evidence of the picasso works being stolen? maybe davout can find better article
13:50 jurov they explicitly mention the judge had no evidence they are stolen. hence the outrage
13:51 punkman http://i.imgur.com/t86Heg7.jpg this happens often around here, but most people don't have the money to build around it
13:51 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1bmsm1x )
13:52 jurov where?
13:53 punkman the island with the bulls and the Minoans
13:53 punkman you dig up the wrong thing, you no longer can use your land.
13:57 punkman and merely possessing some kinds of rubble can get you charged for "smuggling of antiquities"
~ 17 minutes ~
14:14 ben_vulpes mon dieu
14:20 mircea_popescu btw, about the fat thread : http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/fat.png
14:20 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgbXXj )
14:21 mircea_popescu i knew i had it somewhere, but forgot where.
14:21 mircea_popescu an' nao brb writing an article.
~ 52 minutes ~
15:13 decimation jurov: Luther has many great writings. Unfortunately most of those who belong to churches that he founded have tended to overlook his writings
15:16 decimation cazalla: The Wire is a pretty good take on how life in the 'big city' works in the us - and its bureaucracy
15:17 decimation it's not strictly historical but the main author was a journalist who covered the baltimore police for a long time
15:28 funkenstein_ got my mycelium stuxnet entropy in the mail yesterday
15:30 mircea_popescu !up fhiejeurjjurru
15:30 fhiejeurjjurru Whats up
15:30 funkenstein_ came with a free difficult to decipher t-shirt that says "entropy this ease freedom"
15:30 funkenstein_ apparently grammar too restrictive
15:38 fhiejeurjjurru Yo yo yop
15:38 fhiejeurjjurru Whats up everyone
15:39 mircea_popescu who're you, randomname ?
15:40 mircea_popescu danielpbarron hey, mind writing a "for total noobs" guide for deedbot in the b-a wiki ?
15:40 mircea_popescu i intend to use it for the eulora new accounts process, and well...
15:44 fhiejeurjjurru Yo
15:48 fhiejeurjjurru Yo
15:48 fhiejeurjjurru Whats up everyone
15:50 mircea_popescu !down fhiejeurjjurru
15:50 mircea_popescu greeting scripts nao ffs.
15:54 scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/more-problems-of-meta/
~ 24 minutes ~
16:18 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064023 << lollerblades!
16:18 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 09:18:50; trinque: I think we just solved it, representative democracy is a trauma I can no longer acknowledge exists
16:19 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064041 << jamaica IS unbearable, and way under marakesh level.
16:19 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 13:57:41; nubbins`: 'cause if that's the case, jamaica must be *unbearable*
16:20 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064049 << ahahahaha fu nubbs!
16:20 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 14:05:31; nubbins`: the only reason MP gets away with being a prick is because his articles are circuitous enough that it's not worth the effort to construct counter-arguments
16:27 mircea_popescu "While the collection has not been officially valued, reports in the French and international press have estimated that it could be worth as much as 120 million euros, or about $130 million."
16:27 mircea_popescu gtfo, 300 pieces for under half a million on average ?
16:27 mircea_popescu what is this, the 70s ?
16:30 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064071 << oh certainly.
16:30 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:17:10; asciilifeform: re: picasso article: i can easily imagine a 'Dark Future of Hello Kitty' (TM) where a plebe found with ten fifty is prosecuted because 'he could only have obtained them by stealing from j.p.morgan, stop telling lies, there's no other way'
16:31 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064076 << the problem is they didn't have title.
16:31 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:28:24; asciilifeform: because 'prove you didn't steal it' if you aren't one
16:31 mircea_popescu gifts are nice and good but for unperishables it is always a good idea to obtain a piece of paper too. any golddigger knows this.
16:39 ben_vulpes how does title to bitcoins work?
16:39 ben_vulpes is the private key not adequate title?
16:45 mircea_popescu nope.
16:45 mircea_popescu no one has any title to any bitcoin.
16:45 decimation in the us title to personal property is rarely documented (outside of automobiles)
16:45 mircea_popescu obv, fake title will be constructed by convention, but hey. not unlike saying "the moon belongs to X"
16:45 mircea_popescu decimation valuable art is not "personal property"
16:47 decimation well, it isn't real property
16:47 thestringpuller is it just me or does this tank look ghetto: http://i.imgur.com/KTwWOdk.jpg
16:48 decimation certainly some signed document that says "I bequeath X to Y" would be helpful in any reasonable court
16:49 mircea_popescu it is real property, of course it is.
16:49 mircea_popescu how not ?
16:50 mircea_popescu it has its own variant of torens title and everything.
16:50 decimation it's mobile?
16:50 mircea_popescu so ?
16:50 mircea_popescu that's just shorthand, "oh, real estate is that estate which can not move"
16:51 mircea_popescu real estate is that estate which is identifiable in itself, rather than by its characteristics.
16:51 mircea_popescu that's why if i steal your house i am ordered to give you back ~your house~ but if i steal your bottle of beer i am ordered to pay you for a beer.
16:51 decimation I think this might be a difference between common and continental law
16:51 mircea_popescu very much doubt it, seeing how the above is at common law.
16:52 mircea_popescu the remedies available distinguish the nature of property, and the remedies for chattels (your "personal" property) are of same value, because chattels are fungible.
16:52 mircea_popescu castles and drawings by picasso are not fungible.
16:54 thestringpuller http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-pc-sales-weak-as-many-businesses-stick-with-windows-xp/
16:55 decimation http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1727 < I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the term 'real property' is that it only includes the land and immovable improvements
16:55 assbot Legal Dictionary | Law.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLEGo2 )
16:56 thestringpuller http://i.imgur.com/i0jvyiv.gifv << This kid has his priorities straight.
16:59 mircea_popescu decimation always see the actual source. http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=458-12-010
16:59 assbot WAC 458-12-010: Definition—Property—Real. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLFfOI )
17:00 mircea_popescu take for instance "(7) Standing timber growing on land which belongs to the same person as the timber."
17:00 mircea_popescu certainly movable.
17:01 mircea_popescu and so are titles of various kinds - such as to mineral rights, or whatever.
17:01 mircea_popescu it's not usually made much of, but the sensible way to take stuff like famous artpieces is exactly real estate.
17:02 decimation well, I agree that it would make sense to do things that way
17:02 decimation the us legal system isn't famous for making much sense
17:02 decimation for instance, hardly any jurisdictions use 'torrens title'
17:03 decimation it is standard practice to pay third parties to 'insure' the title chain is 'clean'
17:03 mircea_popescu sure.
17:03 mircea_popescu but anyway, if one wishes to avoid the sort of problem those giftees faced... get title with the gift.
17:04 decimation aye, a receipt of some kind would be handy to avoid exactly this. even for bitcoin, if you plan on arguing in front of a 'legacy' judge
17:05 mircea_popescu no.
17:06 mircea_popescu for bitcoin it does not work, because no one has any title.
17:06 mircea_popescu picasso himself did have title to his own paintings, and so he could transmit title to them.
17:06 mircea_popescu but there isn't someoine with title to bitcoin (other than, arguably, satoshi, which is WHY his disappearance is so important)
17:06 mircea_popescu and since one can't give what one does not have, it then follows that one can't actually give bitcoin.
17:07 mircea_popescu (the usg will readily dispute this claiming they actually DO have title to bitcoin they confiscate, and then create chain of title from there. this argument is illogical).
17:09 decimation but logic is hardly the foundation of states, rather brazen claims of possession.
17:09 mircea_popescu sure, but as far as brazen claims go they could also claim your wife.
17:09 mircea_popescu god knows they already claim your children.
17:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2012/gpg-contracts/#comment-113239 << check that one out.
17:10 assbot GPG contracts pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLGZHz )
17:11 thestringpuller looks like that tracks from qntra
17:12 thestringpuller interesting
17:12 mircea_popescu it does ?
17:13 mircea_popescu http://nap.univacc.net/ << lulz of all fucking time, incidentally.
17:13 assbot NAP: The Non-Aggression Principle ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLHmSt )
17:13 mircea_popescu "It is possible to construct a rational argument, from broadly agreeable premises, that leads directly to the NAP." is a direct equivalent to "i can prove that blue eyes are what god intended"
17:13 thestringpuller looks like it, not that it actually does. There is a links from recent qntra article same date as comment that links to GPG contract article on trilema.
17:14 mircea_popescu " While the Non-Aggression Principle does not have anything direct to say about the legitimacy of retaliation" << entirely spurious distinction. there's no logical difference between "retaliation" and "initiation"
17:14 mircea_popescu de novo acts are not in fact possible.
17:14 mircea_popescu once innovation is admitted as an arbitrary construct, well... it's a political matter.
17:14 mircea_popescu thestringpuller you mean today ?
17:14 thestringpuller yes
17:14 thestringpuller 3/22
17:14 decimation there's a libertarian fantasy world where humans are required 'play nice' because of some kind of rationalist first-principle
17:15 mircea_popescu makes sense then
17:15 mircea_popescu decimation yes but it's bunko through and through.
17:16 mircea_popescu anyway, there's the flag. mebbe some intellectual leadership of that movement whatever it may be sees it, feels equal to the task of representing their ideas in front of the world rather than in some carefully constructed echo chamber and comes prove it.
17:16 jurov reminds me of "it increased hedonic index of the school" (guess from where)
17:16 mircea_popescu feel free to distribute teh log links to your friends.
17:16 mircea_popescu jurov the guy with the bad harry potter fanfic ?
17:16 jurov yes, that.
17:17 mircea_popescu your phrasing gave it away :p
17:17 decimation heh yeah
17:17 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: when I first joined this channel at the collapse of GLBSE you said, "Scammers just help the legitimate businesses' reputation that much more." My friend this past year went on to say, "In the new world, the most trusted person need not to be liked, because well he's trustworthy. He/She could be a complete asshole if as long as they do their job."
17:18 thestringpuller so i've gone on to realize that the redditard mentality of "I don't like this person == I don't trust this person" is completely false on all accounts.
17:18 thestringpuller Perhaps within politics gettings someone to "like your platform" is moot altogether.
17:23 fluffypony thestringpuller the easiest way to understand why that mentality fails is to state the inverse
17:23 fluffypony "I like this person == I trust this person"
17:23 fluffypony most con artists are very likeable
17:23 fluffypony and most of the people I would trust to keep my money for me are...well..not likeable at all
17:23 fluffypony which is the point :-P
17:23 mircea_popescu the entire "like/dislike" process as practiced by esl people atm is due for some reform.
17:24 thestringpuller which reform?
17:24 mircea_popescu recall that idiot that was droning on about how he "didn;t like" some local woman because "she was racist" ?
17:24 mircea_popescu well... that's not how it works.
17:24 fluffypony lol
17:24 mircea_popescu the group of people who think they like tgi tuesdays because X cultural reasons, irrespective of the food,
17:24 mircea_popescu they can't really survive in the wild.
17:25 thestringpuller well this is primal no? D00d is stranded on island and has to kill for food. Hasn't killed before, so choice is: kill or die.
17:25 mircea_popescu ok... ?
17:26 mircea_popescu how about stranded on island, east half of which is constantly flooded, all esl-ians gather there because "it looks just like the bay area, man!"
17:26 mircea_popescu how the "bay area" looks is really not all that important.
17:26 mircea_popescu the various cultural conventions of stupid, while the leading heuristic leading the stupid, aren't really all that important on their own either.
17:27 mircea_popescu fluffypony generally, the thing there is that people who are trustworthy are uncompromising, and people who are popular are very, VERY compromising.
17:27 dignork decimation: Rothbard never claimed people would 'play nice', just that current system of control is fucked up.
17:27 fluffypony mircea_popescu: spot on
17:27 mircea_popescu so perfectly likeable folk (if you're sane) will look like total assholes (to idiots).
17:27 mircea_popescu which idiots then go on to "really trust the brick and mortar neobee" and well..
17:28 thestringpuller it's a sickness to say the least.
17:28 mircea_popescu but likeable != popular, nor are the applause of the mob worth anything nowadays, like they weren't worth anything when cicero walked the earth
17:29 mircea_popescu and so here we go, " people with a pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy (e.g. API and UI design)"
17:29 decimation was that a slight at the gpg maintainers or stallman?
17:30 mircea_popescu well, i readily grant gpg is pure shit.
17:30 mircea_popescu just, manure, as george observed, is almost pleasant if you get down to it : there's a pg, which isn't bad, with a gnu in front of it.
17:30 mircea_popescu at least it's not out and out systempoison.
17:30 decimation dignork: the fucked-upness of the "current system" doesn't justify appealing to some bit of dubious reasoning
17:31 mircea_popescu decimation i think his point stands tho, rothbard never said it, and what idiots trying to be "rothbardian" understood of it all isn't really relevant.
17:31 * mircea_popescu shudders at the thourght of "true trilemians" long after his death doing really stupid shit.
17:32 decimation heh. reminds me of the 'museum fremen'
17:32 mircea_popescu go to cairo, plenty of "museum arabs" irl.
17:32 mircea_popescu or at least, were, during mubarak days.
17:32 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: which idiots then go on to "really trust the... << I was always taught never to make a business decision out of emotion. Making a business decision based on "liking someone" fits this methinks.
17:33 mircea_popescu thestringpuller now turn that on its head : business decisions without human heuristic can't beat adlai's scalpl.
17:33 mircea_popescu by definition.
17:34 chetty yeah that gut instinct thing still counts
17:34 thestringpuller ah, i was about to ask that. "The Gut"
17:36 nubbins` asciilifeform sorry, your book can't be bound in sealskin anymore ;/
17:36 nubbins` http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/corner-brook-woman-s-sealskin-purse-seized-at-u-s-border-1.3004760
17:36 assbot Corner Brook woman's sealskin purse seized at U.S. border - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLKU7s )
17:37 mircea_popescu lmao
17:37 decimation nubbins`: was she an eskimo or whatever
17:37 mircea_popescu yet somehow this ain't making the news. "hey, more shit you're not good enough to have!" not really interesting to anyone.
17:38 funkenstein_ border fascists can take anything
17:38 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/03/openssl-severe-vulnerability-to-be-revealed-march-19th/ << anything came of this btw ?
17:38 assbot OpenSSL Severe Vulnerability to be Revealed March 19th | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLLamQ )
17:39 mircea_popescu funkenstein_ i fully expect it will eventually be illegal to wear leather, natural fibers, etc. everyone must plastic!
17:39 mircea_popescu i suppose it's when i start shooting.
17:39 decimation when did the crazy fur nazis start making usg border policy?
17:39 funkenstein_ i back you up
17:39 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Just some Denial of service stuff. The LibreSSL fork was only affected by 5 or so of the 13 or 14 vulnerabilities
17:40 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo imo after an article like that must make update "here's what it was"
17:40 mircea_popescu sorta reads like a promise to keep reader updateds.
17:40 mircea_popescu !up execut3
17:40 funkenstein_ but my legal advice reminds me border forces are basically above the law
17:40 mircea_popescu decimation 80s or so ?
17:41 mircea_popescu !up execut3
17:42 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Will do in a bit
17:44 thestringpuller !up ascii_modem
17:44 nubbins` funkenstein_ +1
17:45 ascii_modem ssl vuln << yes; check log
17:45 nubbins` ;;dict basically
17:45 gribble wn: basically adv 1: in essence; at bottom or by one's (or its) very nature; "He is basically dishonest"; "the argument was essentially a technical one"; "for all his bluster he is in essence a shy person" [syn: {basically}, {fundamentally}, {essentially}]
17:45 nubbins` contrast with colloquial defn: "sorta"
17:46 nubbins` for further reading on why i won't mail one: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/extradition-order-issued-for-pot-activist-emery-1.878376
17:46 assbot Extradition order issued for pot activist Emery - British Columbia - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLM9Ds )
17:46 danielpbarron mircea_popescu> danielpbarron hey, mind writing a "for total noobs" guide for deedbot in the b-a wiki ? << i can do that
17:46 ascii_modem it was a mindfuck. bunch of possibly remoteexec vulns and no real scandal followed
17:47 mircea_popescu ascii_modem aha
17:47 trinque danielpbarron: I am mobile atm but can answer questions.
17:47 trinque back at puter shortly
17:48 danielpbarron i'm also mobile atm
17:48 ascii_modem openssl phasetransitioned to the place where winblows lives
17:48 ascii_modem where nobody gives a phuq
17:48 decimation 'spiritual winblows'
17:48 mircea_popescu ascii_modem im curious how BingoBoingo's update reads is all :)
17:49 decimation I can see why linus was pissy about the pr given to 'security bugs'
17:50 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064084 << the complaint is not that it's illogical, but that the desire of the convicted felon to stab the guards must not succeed and should not succeed.
17:50 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:56:21; asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz.
17:50 ascii_modem linus was right re: turdcode being all across everything
17:51 nubbins` "the 1972 U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act. The act categorically bans "imports or sales of all marine mammal products", regardless of the conservation status of the animal"
17:52 decimation ascii_modem: yeah, the problem with the security 'pr' releases is the implication is that once they are 'fixed' everything is great!
17:52 nubbins` mp wasn't joking re: more shit you're not good enough to have
17:52 mircea_popescu mp doesn't joke half the times he gets credit for.
17:52 nubbins` ^
17:52 ascii_modem import live and shoot stateside, skin.
17:53 nubbins` as if /that's/ allowed
17:53 nubbins` barely get away with it here
17:53 ascii_modem but border guard doesnt autocatch then.
17:54 nubbins` doesn't autocatch a /live seal/?
17:54 ascii_modem live may be legal? ianal
17:54 nubbins` you'd measure the forms in inches, not pages
17:54 decimation wait for one to present itself at the coast?
17:55 nubbins` given the rate at which melting sea ice from imaginary climate change is shrinking polar bear populations, which are one of the only things keeping seal populations in check...
17:55 nubbins` you're probably 20 years away from actually seeing above
17:56 mircea_popescu nah, seals don't like warm shores.
17:56 nubbins` nor do they like starving
17:57 decimation http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/eat-at-dougs/Content?oid=2260720 < related "Jim and Bub watched each other, smirking. Ultimately, Bub couldn't keep quiet anymore. "Mr. Billman, you're about to tear into a 100-percent, grade-A, free-range, Florida-raised dugong steak." "Dugong?" I asked."Manatee." "
17:57 assbot Eat at Doug's | News | Orlando Weekly ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLNEle )
17:58 mircea_popescu but anytway, yes, all the "ecology" and "protection" legislation in the us has exactly nothing to do with anything but "you plebs, off to your gruel". it's copied exactly off the forest laws of medieval england
17:58 nubbins` you can buy seal burgers at restaurants here occasionally
17:58 nubbins` flipper pie, w/e
17:58 mircea_popescu (and no, forest does not mean "heavily wooded", it means "set aside from common law, at the disposition of the king". much like "real estate" does not mean "thick withj buildings")
17:59 mircea_popescu ie, it comes from latin foris.
17:59 nubbins` people *love* sealskin boots, purses, hats, etc
17:59 nubbins` generally very silly looking
17:59 decimation http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4122800.stm
17:59 assbot BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan puts whale burger on menu ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLNWsg )
18:00 mircea_popescu nubbins` yeah, actual people. not usians tho. usians hate them, as they should. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064084
18:00 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:56:21; asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz.
18:03 nubbins` bbl musique!
18:04 funkenstein_ decimation, research purposes?
18:05 mircea_popescu nah, they actually eat them, but have for > 30 years claimed their whalers are "researchers"
18:10 funkenstein_ motherfuckers make me want to do a little research of my own
18:13 mircea_popescu i dunno, whale's not all that great.
18:17 thestringpuller http://onehouressays.com/
~ 26 minutes ~
18:44 decimation re: it's more the principle of the matter. japan wants to assert that japan, and not usg, make japan policy
18:44 decimation this is obviously silly
18:44 mircea_popescu not so obvious.
18:46 decimation isn't japan wholly dependent on the us for defense?
18:59 mircea_popescu and if the wife is fully dependent on husband for sustenance this means what, that she doesn't fuck whoever she pleases ?
18:59 mircea_popescu naive view.
19:00 trinque seems like the self-defense force has been pushing for an open relationship gradually over the years
19:00 mircea_popescu moreover... "Defense". defense from whom ? clearly it can't rely on the us to defend it from the us, an' so...
19:10 thestringpuller http://www.coinbuzz.com/2015/03/22/bitproof-whiz-kid-looking-for-business-niche/
19:11 trinque "whiz kid" ... "demo day" ... ah god :P
19:12 trinque wtf is this deedbot?
19:13 trinque guys where is my 5mil in VC cheese for deedbot?!
19:13 decimation mircea_popescu: an' so... master and man?
19:14 mircea_popescu lol
19:23 ben_vulpes trinque: slaves to the wot
19:23 thestringpuller https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/579642765769867266 << the undead continues
19:30 funkenstein_ third wheel solutions
19:33 mircea_popescu thestringpuller so many whizz kidz, so little whizz chezz...
19:33 * mircea_popescu tries to even remember who these were, memory fails.
19:39 trinque \w+ \w+ Solutions
19:40 trinque the imitation never ends
19:42 BingoBoingo scoopbot -fetch
19:48 jurov scoopbot -dropdead
19:48 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/march-19th-openssl-vulnerabilities-overview/
19:48 jurov ha!
19:48 BingoBoingo jurov's got the magic command
19:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the problem is they didn't have title << does a suitcase full of benjies have 'title' ? or a tonne of gold bar? or not because fungible
↖
19:55 asciilifeform and why exactly is this concept of permission from the state to be recognized as the owner, a useful thing ?
19:55 asciilifeform if 'possession is 9/10th of the law,' as is the maxim, why not 10/10 ?
19:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: castles and drawings by picasso are not fungible << i'd argue that picassos are more or less 'analogue bitcoin' for the ultra-bezzlerich. hence my interest in the linked turd
↖
19:57 asciilifeform other than, arguably, satoshi, which is WHY his disappearance is so important << what would a picture with a living satoshi look like ?
19:57 asciilifeform usg will readily dispute this claiming they actually DO have title to bitcoin they confiscate << guaranteed.
19:59 asciilifeform 'In fact, I rather suspect that GPG will fade away as other implementations gain currency. It's old, crusty, built from barely readable source code, license terms inhibited, and maintained by people with a pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy (e.g. API and UI design)' << mega-l0l. thing is, in a way the fool is right, it 'faded away' the same way common lisp did. which is t
19:59 asciilifeform o say not at all, but it isn't aggressively tossed in anyone's face and hence 'does not exist' in the mind of the populist idiots..
19:59 asciilifeform 'It is possible to construct a rational argument, from broadly agreeable premises, that leads directly to the NAP...' << these folks use 'natural law' crapolade as a crutch to avoid the demand of having agency
20:00 asciilifeform too few balls, they have, to utter 'an ought' straight up
↖
20:00 asciilifeform the people I would trust to keep my money for me are...well..not likeable at all << obligatory: my original review of MPEx.
20:01 asciilifeform (it was an essay largely about this concept)
20:02 asciilifeform 'Under the terms of the deal, Emery is expecting return to Canada to serve his sentence, said Tousaw.' << wai wat!?!?! canada offers 'sit in jail for your crimes in usa' service? how about iran? can i do time in canada for blasphemy against the prophet ?
20:03 asciilifeform http://xkcd.com/180 << obligatory
20:03 assbot xkcd: Canada ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bn2U17 )
20:04 asciilifeform it's copied exactly off the forest laws of medieval england << who, then, are the nobles? is obamitler walking around in seal coat? warren buffett ?
20:07 asciilifeform trinque: guys where is my 5mil in VC cheese for deedbot?! << obligatory >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916
20:07 assbot Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
20:08 * asciilifeform caught up on log... finally
20:09 decimation asciilifeform: the question in my mind is the concept of 'title' without reference to the state. it seems to me that it is meaningless outside a particular legal code
20:10 decimation or perhaps resolves to 'imma kill u 'n take ur stuff'
20:11 asciilifeform decimation: meaningless without state as far as i can see
20:11 asciilifeform not necessarily the modern totalitarian monstrosity. but state in some form
20:12 asciilifeform or at least a coalition of folks who are able to penalize you for violating the title (could wot do this? possibly)
20:12 * asciilifeform not expert on the practical mechanics of electric feudalism
20:13 decimation heh.
20:14 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064364 << constructive title.
20:14 assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 23:54:57; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is they didn't have title << does a suitcase full of benjies have 'title' ? or a tonne of gold bar? or not because fungible
20:14 mircea_popescu which is why the whole "confiscated cash in drug bust" thing.
20:14 mircea_popescu note that i'm not saying anything about what's useful, merely going through how the logic of that thing works.
20:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i always read it as 'plebe may not possess allocatory capital tokens' thing
20:15 asciilifeform (which a sufficiently heavy bag of benjies would in principle be)
20:15 mircea_popescu well, you can read it any way you want, but legally, it flows from "title is title, if you don't have title you may use constructive title (possession is 9/10 of the law and all that), except so and so"
20:16 asciilifeform was picasso listed as an 'except so' ?
20:16 * asciilifeform ianal
20:16 mircea_popescu "except so and so" = "except if it seems to come from drugdealing"
20:16 asciilifeform any fr jurists here? davout ?
20:16 mircea_popescu but that's the font of all the "prove you didn't steal it" thing.
20:16 asciilifeform are picassos presumed to come from dope work ?
20:17 mircea_popescu that's not the controlling bit. the controlling bit is, "can you prove this is yours ?"
20:18 * asciilifeform unable to find 'constructive title' in reference; only found 'constructive possession'
20:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00027062 = 3.721 BTC [-]
20:20 mircea_popescu i made up the term for this discussion.
20:20 asciilifeform l0l
20:20 mircea_popescu prolly shoulda added scarequotes.
20:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: so, under this concept, if cannot prove that it is yours, it reverts to the last registered owner?
20:20 mircea_popescu yep
20:20 mircea_popescu which is why the picassos aren't going to the state, but to the heirs.
20:21 asciilifeform except they did go to the state. the heirs, note, didn't show up with rifle to take it
20:21 asciilifeform the state helpfully did it for them
20:21 mircea_popescu how's that relevant ?
20:21 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1064373 << might be exactly the problem, on superficial perusal of the literature.
20:21 assbot Logged on 23-03-2015 00:00:17; asciilifeform: too few balls, they have, to utter 'an ought' straight up
20:22 asciilifeform that it was servants of the crown who not only showed up to dekulakize the electrician, but handed out jail term
20:22 asciilifeform but i get the legal fiction involved, yes
20:23 mircea_popescu aite then
20:23 mircea_popescu but yes, the entire "taint" bullshit does not work. the correct avenue is exactly the reverse : require to be paid only in "proper" bitcoin, that is to say, bitcoin traceable to X or Y or Z purchase, from agent of the crown, which fictitiously has title.
↖
20:24 mircea_popescu in this view of Bitcoin, only Draper has any, or whoever bought it from USG.
↖
20:24 asciilifeform seems like inevitably will be tried
20:24 mircea_popescu sort-of like a usg-run laundromat.
20:24 mircea_popescu likely, yeah.
20:24 asciilifeform didn't this already have one go around ?
20:24 asciilifeform some idiot had 'whitelist'
20:24 mircea_popescu not afaik.,
20:24 * asciilifeform distinctly recalls
20:24 asciilifeform !s whitelisting
20:24 assbot 3 results for 'whitelisting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whitelisting
20:24 asciilifeform !s whitelist
20:24 assbot 50 results for 'whitelist' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whitelist
20:24 mircea_popescu but it jives very well with "so what if we can't control bitcoin - it'd divisible, so let's just carve a kiddy pool and play in there! "
20:25 asciilifeform !s taxcoin
20:25 assbot 2 results for 'taxcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=taxcoin
20:25 decimation luke-jr was kinda advocating the blacklist if I recall
20:25 decimation !up Luke-Jr
20:25 decimation didn't you advance a blacklist in gentoo?
20:26 funkenstein_ actually that kinda makes more sense than a separate fedcoin
20:26 asciilifeform iirc he understood that other folks would choose to relay the 'bad' tx
20:26 Luke-Jr what blacklist are you claiming I advocate?
20:26 Luke-Jr decimation: no
20:26 asciilifeform but wanted to make some kind of statement against dice
20:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fedcoin carved from bitcoin is missing key feature for them - forced transfer
20:28 asciilifeform what do they do when it is time to confiscate? revoke the blessing on the coin? this doesn't move it back into the state coffer
20:28 asciilifeform nor enabled them to mint debased coin at will
20:28 asciilifeform an altcoin (with some form of key escrow) still seems likely imho
20:29 asciilifeform (as a candidate for 'fedcoin')
20:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform suppose they make a few peers that use Luke-Jr style rules, and then ddos the ~60 or so remaining nodes.
20:29 mircea_popescu there's a reason usgavin & co pretend like nodes are not important while trying to make them not feasible.
20:29 mircea_popescu sadly for that party the attempt to do so quietly failed catastrophically, but what's that mean ?
20:29 funkenstein_ you don't have to ddos the remaining nodes.. just declare your colored coins to be worth 10x the others
20:30 mircea_popescu ...
20:30 asciilifeform in exchange for freshly printed green
20:30 asciilifeform funkenstein_ has it
20:30 decimation usg could just arrest/seize/forfeit nodes it doesn't like
20:30 mircea_popescu or at any rate try.
20:31 asciilifeform it is worth asking what usg would be trying to accomplish with fedcoin
20:31 mircea_popescu but notice that the people who do not suffer from that famous " pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy " will not have much problems using usg-nodes anyway
20:31 mircea_popescu and so...
20:31 asciilifeform for some purposes 'colouring' existing btc as funkenstein_ described would work
20:31 asciilifeform and less noise, less fuss, than gasenwagen
20:31 asciilifeform 'woah my shit is worth 10x, sell' goes typical lamer
20:31 funkenstein_ like newton did with gold
20:31 mircea_popescu the only purpose it would really work for is, giving us a lot of weaponry to kill them with
20:31 decimation asciilifeform: but then usg is stuck with backing dollars with bitcoin
20:32 mircea_popescu which is why i kinda suspect it's inevitable.
20:32 funkenstein_ i think this is a post dollar discussion
20:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the kill shot would involve an 'arse-mouth system', no?
20:32 mircea_popescu everything since 2009 or so is a post-dollar discussion.
20:32 asciilifeform where 1) idiot fed pays 10x 2) mr jihad buys 10x normal coin 3) ??? 4) go to 1
20:33 funkenstein_ wish i was here earlier :)
20:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno, they bought isis the weapons and then they bought isis the meatsacks to practice shooting round tikrit.
20:33 mircea_popescu seems to me they mostly buy us shit, so.
20:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 100% same as afghan campaign '03-present
20:33 decimation well, people in ohio need jobs see...
20:33 mircea_popescu right, so why would one expect different ?
20:34 asciilifeform but i can see the 'win' from afghan - lockheed, grumman, halliburton, general dynamics, etc. get to churn inventory
20:34 asciilifeform the actual purpose of every usg mil engagement since korea
20:34 asciilifeform but what'd be the 'win' here ?
20:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15138 @ 0.00027062 = 4.0966 BTC [-]
20:34 mircea_popescu i dunno, draper gets to pretend like he's a savvy businessman ?
20:34 mircea_popescu after pretending like he bought bitcoin ?
20:34 mircea_popescu gotta keep the pretense up.
20:36 decimation I just thought of a brilliant anti-'area denial' (to usg term) weapon system. imagine a small turboprop uav ... that can drop its wings and turn into kerosene rocket
20:36 asciilifeform as i understand, operating with the 'monetary system as storage battery' model (mr mold's ?) usg has two possible (non-exclusive) agendas re: btc: 1) steal charge from the battery 2) blow up the battery
20:36 asciilifeform ideally 1+2, i venture to guess, from their point of view
20:36 asciilifeform but separable conceptually
20:36 mircea_popescu neither works.
20:36 asciilifeform sure - but which is the desired one
20:37 mircea_popescu the only actually available thing is, print a "Obama made this lolz" sticker, try to affix.
20:37 asciilifeform for the current set of lizardfolk
20:37 mircea_popescu and so i imagine this is what they'll do.
20:37 asciilifeform decimation: german 'v1'
20:37 decimation moldbug thought the us would jail exchanges/possessors, but usg lost the initiative on that one
20:38 asciilifeform decimation: actually they didn't need to jail - no one dared
20:38 asciilifeform afaik
20:38 mircea_popescu i told him he was wrong back then. sadly... as per the castrato model, never answered.
20:38 asciilifeform to make a non-usg exchange in usa
20:39 decimation kinda like a 'v1', but with the appropriate tracking/seeking system, and an entire fleet in orbit around 'La Serenissima'
20:39 asciilifeform thing is, there are multiple overlapping fields of fire re: usg vs exchanges. e.g., banks monitor -all- incoming and outgoing flow
20:39 asciilifeform decimation: pertinent thread: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-11-2014#934786
20:39 assbot Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
20:40 decimation yes, presumes the ability to manufacture jet parts
20:40 decimation not a 'partizan' system
20:40 asciilifeform aviation, by and large, only works when you're a mega-state with maxint constantly replaced slaves to parasitise
20:40 asciilifeform decimation: make me so much as a transistor circa 1950 with partizan tech.
20:40 decimation I would settle for a partizan bank
20:41 funkenstein_ transistor tech has changed a bit in 40 years, jet engines not so much
20:41 decimation as I recall the 'v1' had no moving parts
20:41 asciilifeform fine. make a me262 with jungle tech.
20:41 decimation hehe yea not me262 though
20:41 asciilifeform or even the same 'v1'
20:42 asciilifeform or hell, a single ak round.
20:42 decimation at a minimum you would need fairly modern metallurgy
20:42 asciilifeform most folks who go in for this line of thought, have no idea how much industry is baked into even something like an ak round.
20:42 decimation yeah, especially if you want to make it 'from ore'
20:42 asciilifeform no need to pontificate - the folks in palestine are playing 'junkyard wars' warfare as we speak
20:42 asciilifeform check out what kind of weapons they fight with.
20:43 decimation old busted ex soviet stuff welded to toyotas, etc
20:43 asciilifeform well, to be fair, they have rockets made from old plumbing
20:43 asciilifeform but iirc that's the top of their game
20:43 asciilifeform (with respect to self-made items)
20:43 decimation or your 'recoiless rifles'
20:43 asciilifeform those - imported.
20:44 decimation as are the actually effective guided rockets
20:45 decimation although I think a guided rocket is more likely to be manufactured by a 'partizan' than bullets actually
20:45 asciilifeform marginally.
20:45 decimation still would need good metal and precision milling
20:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4518 @ 0.00027062 = 1.2227 BTC [-]
20:45 asciilifeform and good post-metalwork process (temper)
20:46 asciilifeform incidentally, this is yet another reason why i try to convince folks to read about electrolytic milling
↖
20:46 asciilifeform (afaik a soviet-only technology, to date, at least in the sense of general-purpose multi-axis milling rather than glorified casting - all you'll find on the subject in english)
20:47 asciilifeform electrolysis doesn't give a flying fuck about temper
20:47 asciilifeform or hardness of the material in general, so long as it conducts
20:47 decimation does it work on Al with the oxide layer?
20:47 asciilifeform hence you can use pre-tempered whatevers (car axles, etc.) and go straight to $weaponpart
20:47 asciilifeform decimation: with a little chemical magic, yes
20:50 decimation http://atomicdelights.com/blog/a-glimpse-at-how-the-apple-watch-is-made < asciilifeform did you see this? this was the most interesting bit to me: "Apple is doing something utterly unique in this 5 seconds of video - they are using a laser to clean up any burrs or finishing defects from machining."
20:50 assbot How Apple Makes the Watch — Atomic Delights ... ( http://bit.ly/1COmrhT )
20:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00026982 = 2.941 BTC [-]
20:57 funkenstein_ !up Luke-Jr
21:07 BingoBoingo decimation: More interesting is how the reach 18 karats by... bulking up the "gold" with high volume low density ceramics as the alloying agent.
21:07 BingoBoingo Lightest 18k gold around
~ 22 minutes ~
21:30 decimation BingoBoingo: according to that page they are not using that patented ceramic procedure, but are instead using an alloy with 'work hardening' "For the Watch Edition however, Apple appears to have eschewed any revolutionary alchemy and instead, applied an innovative work hardening process to create gold that is (claimed to be) significantly harder than the typical 18kt used by other watchmakers. "
21:30 decimation nubbins`: have you ever done work with gold leaf?
21:30 nubbins` metallic inks, closest thing
21:31 decimation I would imagine it would be a pain in the ass
21:31 decimation canada mints 24k gold coins, which is kinda dumb
21:31 danielpbarron !up Bagels7
21:31 nubbins` asciilifeform:'Under the terms of the deal, Emery is expecting return to Canada to serve his sentence, said Tousaw.' << wai wat!?!?! canada offers 'sit in jail for your crimes in usa' service? how about iran? can i do time in canada for blasphemy against the prophet ? <<< emery is a canadian national -- this is like /you/ doing time in /iran/ for blasphemy against the prophet because you mailed an iranian a copy of hebdo
21:31 BingoBoingo decimation: I'm not sure I can trust Apple to not use words in a way wildly different from word's actual meanings
21:31 nubbins` decimation 99999 purity, finest in the world
21:31 decimation yeah but utterly impractical for circulation
21:31 nubbins` they're... not circulation
21:31 decimation you want to alloy with copper etc for durability
21:32 nubbins` compare to a krugerrand, which was a circulation coin
21:32 nubbins` and thusly alloyed
21:32 decimation 'american gold eagle' too
21:32 decimation I'm not denying it's pretty, just impractical for its stated purpose
21:32 nubbins` given its face value of $50, a gold maple leaf definitely is impractical for use as currency
21:33 nubbins` since its expenditure represents a 4-digit net loss
21:33 decimation heh well there's that
21:33 nubbins` :D
21:33 decimation I think we discussed this awhile ago, some guy tried to get 'taxed' by the 'face value' of gold eagles
21:33 decimation usg was not amused
21:33 nubbins` heh
21:34 nubbins` maybe if he bought em for fv.
21:34 nubbins` with the requisite loss written into the seller's tax return
21:34 nubbins` speaking of coins
21:34 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.msg10854328#msg10854328
21:34 assbot Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1CJWoH0 )
21:35 decimation lol people wanna pay 7.8 btc for 0.5 btc coin?
21:35 nubbins` nuts hey
21:35 decimation I guess the market decides the price...
21:36 nubbins` ^
21:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9728 @ 0.00027045 = 2.6309 BTC [+] {2}
21:42 mircea_popescu nubbins` no it's nbot. he's canadian national doing time IN CANADA for having offended foreign government.
21:45 nubbins` he actually did 3-4 years in usa
21:45 nubbins` was extradited from here
21:48 oglafbot http://oglaf.com/load/
21:49 assbot Load ... ( http://bit.ly/1CJWT3V )
21:50 mircea_popescu lol
21:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.0002701 = 2.9981 BTC [-] {2}
22:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00027432 = 4.2931 BTC [+]
22:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00026949 = 3.4764 BTC [-] {2}
~ 19 minutes ~
22:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00027432 = 2.8666 BTC [+]
22:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00027432 = 3.0998 BTC [+]
22:36 mircea_popescu "No doubt the Jews aren't a lovable people; I don't care about them myself; but that is not sufficient to explain the Pogrom."
22:36 mircea_popescu who said ?
22:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00027432 = 5.1298 BTC [+]
22:42 decimation FDR?
22:42 mircea_popescu chamberlain, actually.
22:42 decimation heh
22:43 mircea_popescu What a Chamberlain government would have done had there been no war in 1939 will never be known, but an election was due in 1940, and the manifesto proposals outlined by the Conservative Research Department embraced family allowances and the inclusion of insured persons' dependants in health cover—about half the advances usually attributed to Beveridge. As Lady Cecily Debenham wrote to Chamberlain's widow, Anne, afte
22:43 mircea_popescu r his death: "Neville was a Radical to the end of his days. It makes my blood boil when I see his ‘Tory’ and ‘Reactionary’ outlook taken as a matter of course because the Whirligig of Politics made him leader of the Tory party."
22:43 mircea_popescu turns out... a socailist too ?!
22:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7845 @ 0.00026901 = 2.1104 BTC [-]
22:44 asciilifeform nubbins`: this is like /you/ doing time in /iran/ for blasphemy against the prophet because you mailed an iranian a copy of hebdo << nah that would be like me doing time in local state pen for mailing hebdo to teheran
22:44 mircea_popescu "for a more perfect world union"
22:44 nubbins` none of these sound great ;/
22:44 asciilifeform nubbins` et al: of course this is a trick question, because canada (like the rest of the 'civilized' - and even the orcish - world) is signatory to the nacro convention
22:45 asciilifeform and hence the pretenses of differing laws are just that
22:45 asciilifeform *narco
22:45 nubbins` ^
22:45 nubbins` and what the UN says, goes!
22:46 asciilifeform quite possibly this was the juridicial basis for the fella sitting in a ca jail for a us violation
22:46 asciilifeform or wait, vice versa
22:46 asciilifeform damn, the sheer perversity of this plays with the brain
22:46 nubbins` yeah, he never set foot in usa til they brought him there
22:46 nubbins` but i guess his mail was an extension of himself
22:46 asciilifeform neither did noriega
22:46 nubbins` heh.
22:47 nubbins` were noriega's crimes a $200 fine in panama?
22:47 nubbins` (trick question 8)
22:47 mircea_popescu well the difference beeing that seeds were also not illegal.
22:47 asciilifeform iirc they are not illegal in usa either
22:47 nubbins` oh yes they are
22:47 mircea_popescu a fine example of the insanity is the life and times of one little, aka max hardcore
22:47 nubbins` 1 seed = 1 plant in usa
22:47 nubbins` (iirc!)
22:48 mircea_popescu nubbins` nowadays. not then.
22:48 asciilifeform are the legal 'hempseeds' found in hippy foods somehow inactivated ?
22:48 asciilifeform demilitarized? denatured?
22:48 asciilifeform (what's the term of art here)
22:48 nubbins` non-psychoactive strain
22:48 asciilifeform how to prove which strain w/out growing
22:48 nubbins` hemp seeds are as benign as hops flowers
22:48 * nubbins` shrugs
22:48 nubbins` admittedly never seen whole hemp seeds
22:48 asciilifeform i also recall that, at least until recently, psychoactive mushroom spores were legal in usa
22:49 nubbins` ok, visibly different.
22:49 nubbins` the fun ones have tiger stripes
22:49 danielpbarron hemp is illegal in USSA
22:49 nubbins` http://growersguidetocannabis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/DSC_0063.jpg
22:49 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpAnQk )
22:51 decimation moldbug has a quote that implicates FDR in covering for the soviets for Katyn
22:51 nubbins` vs benign hemp seeds: http://imgur.com/J4Q6ni7
22:51 assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpB0cT )
22:53 mircea_popescu i dun see much difference.
22:53 BingoBoingo <nubbins`> vs benign hemp seeds: http://imgur.com/J4Q6ni7 << Appear to have been roasted, shouldn't germinate
22:53 assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpBkYX )
22:53 nubbins` hard to find pics of raw ones
22:53 nubbins` anyway, emery served ~4 years in usa
22:53 nubbins` released this past aug
22:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00026901 = 2.3404 BTC [-]
22:53 decimation http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/21/cold-war-ii-this-time-the-commies-are-in-washington/ < ron paul's man rants about commies
22:53 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpBtf5 )
22:54 asciilifeform l0l! dugin is 'sanctioned' now ?
22:55 decimation yeah I thought you would like that
22:55 mircea_popescu Written by William Norman Grigg
22:55 mircea_popescu who's that ?
22:56 decimation he was a journalist before he had enough and joined the 'john birch society'
22:56 decimation think 'old republicans'
22:57 asciilifeform piece describes the nato 'stop smashing your nose into my fist' tradition
22:57 asciilifeform rather unusually for engl. media
22:57 mircea_popescu "He should consider himself fortunate that he hasn’t yet been targeted for a drone strike." fortune has nothing to do with it. the bumbing us navy lacks the operational capability to carry out drone strikes where he lives.
22:58 mircea_popescu nice link to the brejnev speech tho
22:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00026901 = 4.7346 BTC [-]
23:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16297 @ 0.00026901 = 4.3841 BTC [-]
23:03 mircea_popescu http://40.media.tumblr.com/1fa1a9d0cd350fb833875ceebe1a6d55/tumblr_muo1mwuzAo1rln4dzo1_1280.jpg
23:03 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N42jHZ )
23:04 decimation heh http://web.archive.org/web/20140210003414/http://culteducation.com/reference/jbs/jbs1.html < re: grigg
23:04 assbot Conservative camp roasts more than just weenies ... ( http://bit.ly/1N42mnb )
23:05 asciilifeform phun phact: 2nd president of birch society burned on the famous korean airlines 007.
23:05 decimation "Consider the environmental movement. On the surface, it appears to be a collection of "wonderful, benevolent people trying to help and save the Earth," Koehle tells the campers, who range in age from 13 to 20.In reality, she says, it's a plot to unite humanity against a common enemy, pollution, and lay the groundwork for a world regime.Koehle urges students to ignore doomsday hype about-such things as endangered species - extinction
23:05 decimation isn't necessarily bad, she says, noting that dinosaurs became oil deposits -- and depletion of the ozone layer, a point with which some mainstream scientists agree."
23:05 asciilifeform (su foreign ministry also, famously, proclaimed that nixon was to have flown likewise on 007, but warned in advance)
23:05 mircea_popescu the media and ocher institutions
23:05 mircea_popescu does he mean kosher ?
23:07 decimation no I think it's a misspelling for 'other'
23:07 decimation this la times guy thought he was writing a 'takedown'
23:08 mircea_popescu "I hate what Clinton and his gang of anti-gunner, gays and liberals are doing to America,"
23:08 mircea_popescu lol such nonsense.
23:09 decimation ^ that was a juicy line so that the median 'la times reader' would know that these guys were nutso
23:10 mircea_popescu also http://40.media.tumblr.com/1b190c9f68a591ca242959d2c46ab791/tumblr_mgozwrUDxQ1rsn4c6o1_500.jpg
23:10 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N43HKQ )
23:11 asciilifeform ^ l0l! what is happening in the picture ?
23:12 mircea_popescu guy's vacuuming
23:13 asciilifeform but not only?
23:14 mircea_popescu girl's creaming.
23:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18245 @ 0.00026901 = 4.9081 BTC [-]
23:23 thestringpuller ad/wind 22
23:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5772 @ 0.00027529 = 1.589 BTC [+] {2}
~ 19 minutes ~
23:46 danielpbarron in the style of an OpenBSD man page, I give you http://danielpbarron.com/deedbot.txt
23:46 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N49srJ )
23:46 mircea_popescu srsly, put it in the wiki
23:47 danielpbarron oh, I think i need an account for that
23:47 danielpbarron who gives those out? kako?
23:47 mircea_popescu ah
23:47 mircea_popescu kakobrekla mind making him an acct ?
23:48 trinque danielpbarron: nice!
23:50 asciilifeform http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=35388 << vintage lulz
23:50 assbot What was Peoples Temple’s plan to move to the Soviet Union? ... ( http://bit.ly/19JZXC0 )
23:55 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/03/boost-vc-embraces-child-founded-start-up/
23:58 mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=965883.msg10573130#msg10573130 << lol.
23:58 assbot [OFFICIAL] █ Bitproof.io █ Say Hello to True Certification in the Blockchain ... ( http://bit.ly/1N4bPLb )
23:58 trinque ^ registering nick
23:58 mircea_popescu o look, here's some innovative stuff i came up with myself by reading trilema.
23:58 mircea_popescu (i didn't really understand most of the stuff but whatever)
23:58 asciilifeform it will get $maxint in usg payola.
23:58 asciilifeform there's one 'genius' who will never need his mandatory day job.
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