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00:00	decimation	BingoBoingo: it's pretty obvious that snowden got 'help' from somebody
00:00	mircea_popescu	decimation nope. understand : when usg wants to impress me it's stuck prosecuting derps like shrem.
00:00	mircea_popescu	when i want to impress it i need but point to that.
00:00	mircea_popescu	score is about 1000:1 so far.
00:00	mircea_popescu	just for this reason.
00:00	mircea_popescu	puts every single usg drone in a very uncomfortable position.
00:00	asciilifeform	greenwald is the same animal as every other creature who 1) had a copy of The Goods + 2) sat and continues to sit on it
00:00	asciilifeform	+ 3) throws out censored gibblets
00:00	BingoBoingo	decimation: May also be infered from film that he prolly fucked the Poitras chick to here positive reception
00:01	adlai	the state of "digital signatures" in the fiat world is quite sad... if anybody wants a sad laugh, https://boards.greenhouse.io/hellosign/jobs/5726
00:01	assbot	Job Application for API Evangelist at HelloSign ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKd0dZ )
00:01	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform meta-people, basically. unable to act because stuck pondering implications as a passtime.
00:01	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: much too charitable a reading
00:01	asciilifeform	i see them as fellating usg actively, plain and simple
00:01	mircea_popescu	adlai all this "evangelist" bs. they should just hire linda for an evening's outcall and stfu already.
00:01	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the two aren't distinct.
00:01	decimation	asciilifeform: they would see themselves as reformers
00:02	mircea_popescu	the usg essentially consists of this : "instead of doing anything, why not sit on your ass and ruminate the future ?"
00:02	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: iirc greenwald doesn't go chicks
00:02	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: schwartz summed it up as 'More Studies Needed! (tm)'
00:02	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: No greenwald loves the cock. Talking likely Snowden Poitras affair
00:02	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i muchly doubt anyone ever fucked the poitras chick.
00:03	asciilifeform	why not ?
00:03	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: But you haven't even heard the loving narration.
00:03	mircea_popescu	she has that vibe. the female equivalent of the male creep.
00:03	asciilifeform	to borrow dan mocsny's device, 'like the ruins of a great city, you can tell the woman was once beautiful - but you wouldn't want to move into parthenon'
		↖
00:03	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Thar she does, but snowden was compelled to "prison rules"
00:03	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform more studies needed, this is the controversy, progress and change, all sortsa gunk.
00:04	decimation	http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-assange-wikileaks-and-russia-2013-8?op=1
00:04	assbot	Snowden, Assange, WikiLeaks, and Russia - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1GigUAw )
00:04	gabriel_laddel	Germane to the discussion of "humanity sucks", http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/crap.htm
00:04	assbot	STURGEON WAS AN OPTIMIST ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gih0bx )
00:04	BingoBoingo	Snowden2 though contacted the wrong one of the set of journalists first and was quieted.
00:05	asciilifeform	!b 1
00:05	assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/11GVEF9.txt )
00:05	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040339 << this much is true.
00:05	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 03:00:58; *: BingoBoingo remembers in early 2012 before scandal Petraeus being floated as a more serious threat to Obola than Congress
00:05	BingoBoingo	Film was ambiguous, but leaned towards greenwald having been contacted first.
00:05	decimation	BingoBoingo: you mean wikileaks?
00:05	adlai	or one from the wrong set from the set of sets of journalists
00:06	*	adlai recalls some mention of poitras being contacted first, but read this in an interview with her and only her
00:06	BingoBoingo	decimation: I mean Petraeus was on track to be the next two term president following Obola based on his opposition to Obola which would have followed both without consequence
00:07	decimation	snowden might have contacted wikileaks acting as a foil for the russian security services
00:07	*	adlai wonders how much longer the business model of leak-digestion will survive, before leakers just... leak
00:07	decimation	at any rate, I don't think poitras or greenwald have enough of a clue to move a person of interest across borders
00:07	BingoBoingo	adlai: Snowden successfully contacted Poitras first. More than a year after attempting Greenwald the frist time. Not sure, but second snowden seemed to contact Greenwald while snowden1 in Moscow. Disappeared.
00:07	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040355 << you shall know a lizzard always and everywhere by this sign, that being a reptile has no grasp or appreciation for mammal reproduction.
00:07	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 03:15:38; *: BingoBoingo is dissapoint in this fanfic/propaganda piece. Halfway through and no fucking?
00:08	mircea_popescu	they lay fucking eggs.
00:08	asciilifeform	!b 3
00:08	assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0B53W5M.txt )
00:08	adlai	but this is not even his final form! beware platypus-hitler
00:09	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040363 << wait so you're against interest ?!
00:09	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 03:22:22; decimation: I also think the fiat machine that enables mass theft from everyone's savings is a form of usary
00:09	adlai	BingoBoingo: i've lost track of the snowden's of yesteryear
00:09	mircea_popescu	the us fed is just about ready to implement the ancient christian venice.
00:09	decimation	mircea_popescu: the meating of usary has changed over the ages
00:10	mircea_popescu	so what do you mean ?
00:10	mircea_popescu	(and it's usury)
00:10	BingoBoingo	adlai: You are kinda in the USian ideology testlab. sounds dangerous
00:10	adlai	usary!
00:10	decimation	'theft of money lent'
00:10	mircea_popescu	as in, defalcation ?
00:10	decimation	heh I suppose so
00:10	decimation	perhaps 'theft' is more appropriate
00:10	adlai	BingoBoingo: ...?
00:11	*	adlai isn't sure whether BingoBoingo is talking about geopolitics, ideology, or some mix of them; and to what degree trolling/mockery is distinguishable from his own actual opinions/beliefs
00:11	BingoBoingo	adlai: Modern Israel is nothing more or less than the average middle west resident imagines gryffindor to be
00:11	mircea_popescu	the common law has some categories. there's robbery, with violence. there's theft, without violence but with the knowledge of the victim. there's fraud, without the initial knowledge of the victim. there's embezzelment, where the victim isn't a person per se. and there's defalcation, which is merely negligent or reckless, rather than intentional.
00:12	BingoBoingo	adlai: Maybe the point is you can't know.
00:12	decimation	it's hard to say, because who can divine the intent of usg?
00:12	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040368 << everything's a number, in the sense of , ennumerable.
00:12	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 03:25:17; danielpbarron: isn't a private key a number?
00:12	adlai	slightly related, friend who worked one of those shit-selling carts in a canadian mall, hocking 'Dead Sea' products, got asked by a straight-faced mark: "isn't that where captain jack sparrow was from?"
00:12	*	BingoBoingo working on that since I can't code for shit
00:13	BingoBoingo	<adlai> slightly related, friend who worked one of those shit-selling carts in a canadian mall, hocking 'Dead Sea' products, got asked by a straight-faced mark: "isn't that where captain jack sparrow was from?" << At our local malls those were all hookers at the carts
00:13	adlai	mircea_popescu: it gets better when you realize that even everypair's a number
00:14	mircea_popescu	adlai who ?
00:14	adlai	eg, "compressed ECDSA key" is pretty much the same general idea as the proof that there are 'as many' rational numbers as integers
00:15	mircea_popescu	there's a lot of space in that pretty much.
00:15	adlai	uncompressed ECDSA key = (x,y) on the curve; compressed = a single number that can have the coordinates extracted from it, because the lines described by the range of compressed keys each intersect the [top half of the] curve at one point
00:16	BingoBoingo	Are we sure the fanfic propaganda guy isn't a teen girl "As it turned out, nobody had worked out that her challenging Neville to a Most Ancient Duel meant that she liked him. She'd thought it would be obvious but no, nobody else had even thought of that apparently."
00:17	mircea_popescu	lmai
00:17	asciilifeform	concat (int a, int b) -> int n
00:17	asciilifeform	^ proof
00:17	mircea_popescu	why are all these derps so adolescent ?
00:17	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so 22/3 = 2/23 ?
00:17	mircea_popescu	why not f(a,b) = 1 then
00:17	adlai	concatenation doesn't work, you need to interleave
00:17	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Actual line from text you though worthy of offering a solution to: "Currently she was being referred to as the Sparkly Unicorn Princess of the Noble and Most Ancient House of Sparklypoo."
00:18	adlai	(or use funky encodings)
00:18	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: just proving membership in ring!
00:18	mircea_popescu	cast down the heretic adlai, he means to leaven our numbers!
00:18	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not equality
00:18	*	adlai is still trying to get over the amazement that there's the 'same number' of rationals and complexes
00:19	mircea_popescu	not so.
00:19	mircea_popescu	only if your definition of complexes is based on rational parameters.
00:19	mircea_popescu	1+ei is not in that set.
00:19	BingoBoingo	^
00:19	adlai	ok ok ok
00:19	mircea_popescu	true that this is the pedestrrian definition given in school
00:20	BingoBoingo	Aleph as many subs
00:20	mircea_popescu	a fine example of "teachning kids math = making kids unable to understand math"
00:20	mircea_popescu	and ima link http://trilema.com/2014/its-not-the-sauce-its-the-poultry-and-other-metamathematical-considerations/ here because it's muy related.
00:20	assbot	It's not the sauce, it's the poultry and other metamathematical considerations pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKl6TD )
00:20	*	adlai hasn't seen mention of transrationals yet in the thread, just thinking of dimension changes
00:20	asciilifeform	'The darwin x86_64 gnat crashes with "illegal instruction: 4" on my macbook pro / OS X 10.7.5 :-(Edit: I upgraded to OS X 10.8.3. Now gnat works...' -- from a forum comment. shitgnomism.
00:21	asciilifeform	and fuck, i blew a benjie on chinese aftermarket ssd made just for that box, so it would hold this thing
00:21	asciilifeform	was to be the ada-in-bed machine
00:22	asciilifeform	(box in question has proprietary disk controller that won't take standard drives)
00:22	asciilifeform	every time i pick it up from shelf, thinking of using it for something...
00:22	asciilifeform	this.
00:23	BingoBoingo	* adlai hasn't seen mention of transrationals yet in the thread, just thinking of dimension changes << Aleph progresses in cardenality up through ALeph sub aleph
00:24	asciilifeform	me to colleague: 'mac has to be good for... something?' him: 'take it to the range, it'll make good target'
00:24	*	adlai is still in א₀
00:25	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know, people have been trained to believe in this "upgrade and everything's gonna be better" mantra.
00:25	mircea_popescu	worst fucking idea ever. but it's so much like "progress", and "what the consumers should come to expect"
00:25	adlai	(not yet convinced that real numbers 'exist' outside of theory and approximations)
00:25	BingoBoingo	<asciilifeform> me to colleague: 'mac has to be good for... something?' him: 'take it to the range, it'll make good target' << 9" model and .22 LR makes a nice pop when phosphors are too faded
00:25	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's the direct effect of shitgnomism where 'the doctor healed the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear'
00:26	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: wrong mac
00:26	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: that one doesn't deserve it
00:26	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Everything later is just NeXT abotus
00:26	BingoBoingo	*abortus
00:27	BingoBoingo	Born of the same reasoning that leads one to jack off inside a pussy in a .gif
00:28	BingoBoingo	But still eventually CRT phosphors become worn and mercy needs to be applied
00:29	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i've a massive 'sun' trinitron here that 'needs mercy'
00:29	BingoBoingo	The lead on glass on lead pop is a satisfying noise
00:29	decimation	asciilifeform: the devilish thing about apple 'upgrades' is that the old versions no longer exist
00:29	decimation	try 'upgrading' a 10.6 mac to 10.7 and not 10.8, for instance
00:30	asciilifeform	decimation: exists as much as you want. l33t w4r3z
00:30	decimation	asciilifeform: aye
00:30	trinque	decimation: not that I run OS X, but I think that justifies torrenting anything prior
00:30	asciilifeform	decimation: problem is that the later turds won't run on that box
00:30	asciilifeform	they EOLed a '09 box, yes
00:30	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Are there any open spaces? the cheapest .22 LR rounds tend to be more satisfying. If you have a camera that can capture slow motion, especially avoid the copper plate ones
00:30	asciilifeform	i shit thee not
00:31	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: nearest 'open' space in your customary sense is many hours away.
00:31	BingoBoingo	decimation: Mac OS versions ended at 7.x
00:31	asciilifeform	and has a 'tresspassers will be shot again' sign, most certainly.
00:31	decimation	asciilifeform: yes, I have a couple of early intel macbooks that have been abandoned
00:31	adlai	survivors*
00:32	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Weird. Five minutes walk from here is a zone where absolute lawlessness is permitted
		↖
00:32	decimation	they run 10.6.8, and will forever I guess
00:32	asciilifeform	decimation: aha. this one does.
00:32	decimation	even macports is failing to keep updates going, because they were 32-bit
00:32	*	adlai feels that survivors of https://www.bitfinex.com/account/api are likely to be shot again, by their own trigger
00:32	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Giljnh )
00:32	decimation	I did manage to hack the efi bootloader into 'dual booting' gentoo once
00:33	decimation	but it was pointless because of the driver brokenness
00:33	asciilifeform	decimation: a box without 100% working suspend-to-ram is worthless to me
00:33	asciilifeform	decimation: if BingoBoingo lived here i'd give it to him to shoot.
00:33	adlai	random retardation of the day: trade history has no indication of whether an action took place on margin or was an asset exchange
00:33	asciilifeform	decimation: hence total lack of interest in attempting to put a civilized unixlike on these
00:33	decimation	yeah. it's a lost cause
00:34	decimation	it would be more 'comfortable' to use one of those tadpole laptops
00:34	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Honestly I'd prolly try to save it if I made it. Hard to find anything with built in 13w3
00:34	asciilifeform	i've ran across folks who claim to have done it - but on close examination, it always turns out that they're living with some 'small' imperfection that i find utterly intolerable
00:34	asciilifeform	(e.g. the suspend mode thing)
00:34	adlai	s2ram is just a fancy way of saying "leave the dustoff at the bureau, all you need is quick hands and an evidence bag"
00:35	decimation	yeah the suspend mode thing is really annoying
00:35	decimation	without it you just have a rather useless desktop
00:35	asciilifeform	adlai: don't process 'interesting' bits on a proprietary crudware box
00:35	BingoBoingo	decimation: If you get the chance A/Ux is a pretty fun unix
00:36	decimation	eh, I rather have one of asciii's genera boxen
00:36	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo has said this in the past, and it boggles my mind - what posixy gadget of any interest whatsoever builds on a/ux ?
00:36	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: My fascination stems from it being the first vagually *nixy thing I encountered.
00:36	asciilifeform	ah
00:37	asciilifeform	i suppose this is how folks end up with 'shoe fetish' etc
00:37	*	decimation recalls using an ancient hp 'portable' computer running hp/ux as a youth
00:37	BingoBoingo	less than 3 years later I enountered mandrake linux more than 10 years more recent and was disappoint
00:37	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43600 @ 0.00037125 = 16.1865 BTC [-] {2}
00:37	BingoBoingo	Now I yearn for Ti-89BSD
00:37	adlai	ah more excellent kodmuzik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNI-2i6t7Zs
00:38	assbot	The Bad Plus - Seven Minute Mind - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GimfrJ )
00:38	adlai	though it irks me to no end that the song is not in fact seven minutes long
00:38	*	asciilifeform dreams every day of program-in-bed
		↖
00:38	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Prolly.
00:38	*	asciilifeform doesn't expect to actually get to do it, ever
00:39	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: If you did, imagine the warfain you'd need
00:39	decimation	asciilifeform: what about your chorded keyboard device? does that feel comfortable while lying down
00:39	BingoBoingo	*warfarin
00:39	asciilifeform	decimation: no and you can't program with it anyway
00:39	asciilifeform	(assuming you were speaking of 'microwriter')
00:39	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00038677 = 10.1721 BTC [+] {2}
00:39	decimation	yeah, but it seems a chorded entry system of some kind would allow you to lay on your back
00:40	asciilifeform	decimation: not even thinking of anything so ambitious
00:40	BingoBoingo	At some point faced with the twin maws of conspiracy and poisons one must choose discomfort of some measure.
00:40	asciilifeform	just an actual computer that can be used other than on a desk
00:40	*	adlai has yet to see a good human-touchscreen api for reading and editing source code... but assuming one existed, a 'tablet' would be quite convenient for bedcode
00:41	asciilifeform	adlai: and a pill that lets you fart 10000N*m would be very convenient for transatlantic flight
00:41	asciilifeform	but same idea.
00:41	BingoBoingo	!b 3
00:41	assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0DG3NMA.txt )
00:41	*	gabriel_laddel is lying on a couch, writing on a laptop computer
00:41	adlai	like the romans ate?
00:41	adlai	that cramps my vestigial wings
00:42	decimation	adlai: try waving your hands around like tom cruise in 'minority report' for about 10 minutes and see how you feel
00:42	trinque	adlai: I've got a sort of AST making circle menu thing in my head
00:42	trinque	have never tried to make it
00:42	trinque	you'd sort of crawl along the grammar
00:42	gabriel_laddel	adlai: nah, lying on my back
00:42	trinque	eventually though you need to type words...
00:42	asciilifeform	trinque: i tried just this
00:42	adlai	decimation: touchscreen ≠ glove-activated vaporware
00:42	asciilifeform	not recommended.
00:42	trinque	asciilifeform: cooler to look at for 5min I'd guess
00:42	asciilifeform	touch screen in the best of times sucks for the same reason as mouse
00:43	asciilifeform	clutters visual cortex & attention span window with what ought to be 100% spinal column work
00:44	adlai	ideally, something where i could hold the device with one hand, and do all tasks with a single finger... you can enter text quite fast using gesture typing, and a program-aware editor can do much much much better than the current keyboards because namespacing greatly narrows the likely lexemes
00:44	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform> clutters visual cortex << Wait you trust that api???
00:45	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: ?
00:45	*	asciilifeform thinks that if BingoBoingo is going to 'don't trust your brain' he needs to share the good dope first
00:45	decimation	http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html
00:45	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GinBmi )
00:46	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: That high up on the brain, thing could lie. Gotta trust the lizard brain and little higher
00:46	decimation	^ above link demonstrates 'alternate text entry'
00:46	asciilifeform	decimation: ew
00:46	decimation	hehe yeah
00:46	trinque	asciilifeform: yeah roughly that but with grammar rules
00:46	decimation	it would be good if you could only move your tongue though
00:46	trinque	it'd probably suck
00:46	BingoBoingo	If the responsible part of the brain touches the skull, my general rule is to doubt it
00:47	trinque	er meant decimation
00:47	decimation	adlai: gesture typing sucks, at least as implemented on 'modern' phones
00:48	adlai	why should you trust an internal part of the brain any more than the grey stuff? it's not like you have [consciously available] stimuli re: what's happening there
00:48	decimation	I liked 'typing' gestures into my palm pilot, but somehow that technology disappeared
00:48	asciilifeform	decimation: i loved that thing
00:48	asciilifeform	decimation: it... worked
00:48	adlai	as i said, gesture typing needs to be boosted with program-awareness
00:48	decimation	yeah, modern gesture 'typepads' suck by comparison
00:48	asciilifeform	and didn't throw glitter garbage in your face
00:48	asciilifeform	ever.
00:49	decimation	asciilifeform: especially considering it had like 1% of the modern smartphone's cpu
00:49	adlai	when your likely input set is an entire language, even a crappy markov chain leaves tons of noise
00:49	trinque	adlai: I worked on a visual programming bullshit thing for a year and a half as a job
00:49	asciilifeform	decimation: precisely -why-
00:49	trinque	really don't think it can be made to do more than toy interfaces for end users
00:49	decimation	adlai: somehow customizing the input 'typepad algorithm' is a 'missing option' on all smart devices
00:49	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00038703 = 19.7579 BTC [+]
00:49	trinque	at least without a huge slowdown compared to typing it out
00:50	trinque	for example imagine doing sql joins with a venn diagram
00:50	trinque	say 20 joins
00:50	trinque	:p
00:50	trinque	but it seems like such genius with a single join!
00:50	BingoBoingo	http://www.drunkard.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36899
00:50	assbot	Modern Drunkard Forum • View topic - Lizard Brain's taking over ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX5VFq )
00:51	decimation	trinque: asciilifeform has explained before why graphical interfaces suck for programming
00:51	decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019353
00:51	assbot	Logged on 15-02-2015 05:30:33; decimation: https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/not-all-programmers-alike/ << "I can’t speak for everyone, but when I program, I like to be able to make use of the rather-hefty chunk of my brain that evolved as a language co-processor. Language provides compact abstractions in a way that is difficult to beat using graphics except for inherently-visual tasks (the motion of mechanical parts, etc.)"
00:51	trinque	^ yep
00:51	asciilifeform	^ soemwhere in there yes
00:51	trinque	language is precisely for this
00:52	adlai	typing [+slime-fuzzy] is likely to remain faster than pretty much any other muscle-based input, just due to evolutionary accident... but the quest here, as i see it, is for a drastically more convenient interface, which sacrifices less than the current ones (which aren't even that convenient)
00:52	trinque	this being describing some set of actions, facts, whatever, for something else to learn and/or carry out
00:52	trinque	adlai: what I'd like to see is the structure of the program in some way
00:52	trinque	use the visual part to traverse, not to write code
00:52	asciilifeform	so far, every alternative i've tried vs qwerty keyboard - simply stinks
00:53	asciilifeform	notice that i didn't end my 'engelbart's violin' article with 'and now i use microwriter'
00:53	decimation	asciilifeform: have you followed the 'movement' to re-create stenotypes?
00:53	trinque	there are types of code mess that at least seem like they'd "look like shit" with the right goggles
00:53	asciilifeform	but with 'i should have been forced to use microwriter since age 3'
00:53	asciilifeform	decimation: fuck stenotypes
00:53	asciilifeform	decimation: confined to natural lang.
00:53	decimation	asciilifeform: yeah, I looked into them, but they seem useless for programming
00:53	decimation	aye
00:53	asciilifeform	and what 're-create'
00:53	asciilifeform	they never went anywhere
00:54	asciilifeform	visit a courthouse anywhere in usa
00:54	asciilifeform	so much stenotype 'can eat them with your arse'
00:54	decimation	the story I got was that those devices are priced at bezzle rates
00:54	decimation	plus the training to use them
00:54	adlai	anybody tried one-handed dvorak?
00:54	asciilifeform	certified guildsmen
00:54	asciilifeform	but if you just want one for no reason - ebay
00:54	decimation	asciilifeform: yeah but try to hook it up to your computer to run emacs :)
00:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00036462 = 4.2478 BTC [-]
00:55	asciilifeform	decimation: a good many have standard rs232 tty
00:55	decimation	ah well then maybe it's straightforward
00:55	decimation	some folks try to make a 'ghetto steno' using a keyboard
00:56	decimation	but most keyboards cannot handle chorded keypresses
00:56	asciilifeform	decimation: http://www.loper-os.org/mwemu/mwemu.html << go right ahead
00:56	assbot	MwEmu ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gippf9 )
00:56	asciilifeform	^ i wrote this for folks who just couldn't help but want
00:56	decimation	hehe
00:57	adlai	being able to fully operate a keyboard-drived ui (stumpwm, emacs) with one hand would be a huge step towards using the laptop conveniently in most any position
00:57	asciilifeform	adlai: what would you use for the machine itself ?
00:57	asciilifeform	adlai: any hobbyist worth his salt can build a keyboard
00:57	asciilifeform	but the computer - we don't have.
00:58	adlai	any vanilla keyboard, mapped to some bastardization of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard#One-handed_versions
00:58	assbot	Dvorak Simplified Keyboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GipKhO )
00:59	asciilifeform	why the preoccupation with single hand, anyway? just came back from iran, got chopped ?
00:59	decimation	http://plover.stenoknight.com/2011/10/split-screen-demonstration.html < guy doing 'steno' on a qwerty keyboard
00:59	assbot	Plover, the Open Source Steno Program: Split-Screen Demonstration ... ( http://bit.ly/1GipT4M )
00:59	decimation	if not single hand, why not single finger? or two? can do with morse
01:01	trinque	adlai: I've got most of what I do in stump down to a single-handed binding
01:02	decimation	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_icJLmsFNU < 60 wpm morse 'entry'
01:02	assbot	High Speed Morse Code with an N3ZN Telegraph key by WØAAA - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiqpQg )
01:02	BingoBoingo	adlai> being able to fully operate a keyboard-drived ui (stumpwm, emacs) with one hand would be a huge step towards using the laptop conveniently in most any position << You'd be surprised what you can do when you surrender to WIMP, your keyboard has a clit, and the ETOH has reduced you to half f a lizard's funtioning brain mass
01:02	trinque	not as happy with stump as I'd hoped
01:02	asciilifeform	decimation: 'glass arm' candidate
01:02	adlai	for one, you'd be able to touchtype 'roman style' ( http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/files/2012/08/reclining_triclinium.jpg ); also, you'd have a hand free for tending to non-computer matters, such as pets or your poison of choice
01:02	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Giqsvs )
01:02	trinque	I want an uppermost level concept of task, then several layouts for that task
01:02	trinque	I'm building that now around stump
01:03	adlai	anything public?
01:03	decimation	asciilifeform: nah, he's using a keyer with very small entry force
01:03	trinque	might jack the "tasks" back into helm
01:03	asciilifeform	decimation: even worse
01:03	decimation	if you wanna hurt your hand you use a straight key
01:03	trinque	adlai: neh once I extract the tasks thing from my config maybe
01:03	asciilifeform	decimation: it's the repetitive action that nails you
01:03	asciilifeform	telegraphers were the first to discover
01:03	decimation	asciilifeform: sure, but only if you are doing it with alot of force
01:03	decimation	note he's moving his hand side-to-side
01:03	trinque	adlai: but! it improves daily as stumpwmrc and the repl side by side are a binding
01:03	adlai	trinque: please /join #stumpwm and share if/when you do
01:04	trinque	yeah maybe so
01:04	decimation	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPsgEdmlUf0 < high speed straight key, impressive
01:04	assbot	High speed morse telegraphy using a straight key - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiqP9j )
01:04	*	adlai has often pondered how to get stumpwm more aware of what the windows are doing, but the ways he imagines doing this involve teaching stumpwm more about the programs than they like to reveal programmatically
01:04	trinque	adlai: I'm just farting around with window titles
01:05	trinque	define-frame-preference
01:05	trinque	and in fact this sucks, since emacs changes it several times after making a new frame and loading shit
01:05	trinque	need to find a good place to call place-existing-windows
01:05	adlai	see why i'm so curious about the lispm :P
01:05	*	BingoBoingo wonders if he is the exception planning his interface not around his most capable moments, but around his least...
01:05	trinque	adlai: man I want one too
01:06	trinque	even if all it does is edit text, check email, and transfer files
01:06	adlai	BingoBoingo: on the contrary, i think of all this as 'stoner-proof productivity'
01:06	ben_vulpes	hear hear
01:06	trinque	adlai: yeah
01:06	asciilifeform	decimation: ru text says 'telegraphy bowl ... 1st stage, 2-4 feb. '07, brest'
01:06	decimation	hehe yeah
01:06	decimation	he was almost certainly east german
01:06	adlai	my goal is to increase transaction costs for distractions, and decrease them for productive activities - and have some reasonably real-time control over the productivity gradient
01:06	trinque	I can be blazed as hell and press one button
01:06	trinque	boom, project is open and arranged
01:07	decimation	my understanding is that in the ru high speed telegraphy is something of a minor sport
01:07	BingoBoingo	adlai: But even if your choice of intoxicant you set a floor for its effect
01:07	BingoBoingo	!up Asenath
01:07	adlai	"even if"?
01:07	asciilifeform	decimation: must be a practice run - plug is dangling on the floor
01:07	decimation	aye
01:07	ben_vulpes	adlai: this distraction thing is a human factors problem.
01:08	ben_vulpes	discipline thyself.
01:08	*	adlai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbORXEmbnk
01:08	assbot	You rack disciprine - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX7Mdv )
01:08	BingoBoingo	adlai: Do you indulge in any aqueous intoxicants which push both your peripheral and centeral nervous system to functional minimums
01:08	trinque	"do you like booze, bro?"
01:09	trinque	lol
01:09	BingoBoingo	trinque: Maybe?
01:09	decimation	asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9S-NzsUD5w < another contestant apparently at the same competition, except she is using a keyer
01:09	assbot	High Speed Telegraphy Transmission - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX7WBA )
01:09	*	adlai makes no a-priori constraints on intoxicant choices, since supply, demand, and the threat of violence are strict enough already
01:10	asciilifeform	decimation: woah
01:10	decimation	yeah that's highly impressive
01:10	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ^ check out the gurl
01:11	adlai	although i have a 'standing desk', which places a lower limit to the motor control necessary for all computer use
01:11	decimation	she doesn't have anything that is slowing down the propagation along her myelin sheaths :)
01:11	asciilifeform	lol re: the ru-built exam box
01:11	decimation	yeah it is probably providing audible 'beeps'
01:12	asciilifeform	the one in the first min. appears to be a digital decoder
01:12	decimation	typically the way the keyer works is that one side is continuous dashes and the other is continuous dots
01:12	asciilifeform	not mere buzzer
01:12	decimation	asciilifeform: probably the 'keyer' electronics
01:12	asciilifeform	decimation: i know, built one meself as a boy, who hasnt
01:12	asciilifeform	both kinds
01:13	decimation	the fancy ones have alternating dots and dashes when held together
01:13	adlai	this (gurl's skill) is really just a matter of having a good word->twich compiler
01:13	decimation	she might have some kind of 'grading' software
01:13	asciilifeform	every bit as interesting as what a good pianist does
01:14	mircea_popescu	whoa nelly
01:14	asciilifeform	where are the telegraphygurlz in usa!?
01:14	*	mircea_popescu goes back to catching up oin the log for the 3rd time today
01:14	asciilifeform	what even is this place
01:14	asciilifeform	without them
01:14	decimation	asciilifeform: I think ru still uses telegraphy in aircraft
01:14	asciilifeform	decimation: telegraphy is the 'internet of last resort'
01:14	asciilifeform	from now until alpha centauri
01:15	asciilifeform	doesn't get any lower tech while still electric
01:15	decimation	asciilifeform: we don't even have typistgurls in the usa anymore
01:16	asciilifeform	but even in ru they bowed out and gave agents portable tape-punchies
01:16	adlai	develop a good compiler-compiler for new daily telegraphies, and you don't even need crypto!
01:16	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040834 << not everyone lives in chicago you know.
01:16	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 05:32:01; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Weird. Five minutes walk from here is a zone where absolute lawlessness is permitted
01:16	adlai	the real competition should be "who can learn fastest a new randomly-generated telegraph encoding"
01:17	asciilifeform	http://www.cryptomuseum.com/spy/r350/burst.htm << puncher
01:17	assbot	R-350 Burst Encoder ... ( http://bit.ly/1GitakB )
01:17	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I live on th other side of Illinois North/South Axis, still more lawless, especially if diversity is invoked
01:17	mircea_popescu	adlai or hire one, 599 /month
01:18	decimation	asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position
		↖
01:18	assbot	Exploring the Tupolev Tu-95 "Bear" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GitoYW )
01:18	asciilifeform	notice also the pen for cheating
01:18	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040868 << why ?
01:18	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 05:38:28; *: asciilifeform dreams every day of program-in-bed
01:19	mircea_popescu	seriously now. why not shower in bed ?
01:19	mircea_popescu	why not program in wheelchair ?
01:19	BingoBoingo	!b 3
01:19	assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/03S37SY.txt )
01:19	mircea_popescu	be as genius as that hawkins dude
01:19	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: that's like asking a shoe fetishist, why shoes, why not socks, hats
01:19	adlai	i'm guessing the ones for hire have hardcoded, monolithic parser-compilers, from countless hours spent translating the same encoding... sure, it's impressive to watch, but useless when a new alphabet pops up
01:19	asciilifeform	i like bed, blankets, warmth
01:19	asciilifeform	idleness
01:19	mircea_popescu	i've been known to do that.
01:19	mircea_popescu	also ask lesbos why no c0k
01:19	asciilifeform	aha
01:19	asciilifeform	good question, no?
01:20	asciilifeform	but never an interesting answer
01:20	asciilifeform	because spinal column can't talk
01:22	adlai	another solution is dictation, but it seems that for years to come, the best way to dictate code is via a human typist
01:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113000 @ 0.00036114 = 40.8088 BTC [-] {4}
01:23	adlai	!down
01:23	adlai	!down adlai
01:24	mircea_popescu	noob adlai
01:26	mircea_popescu	"you can enter text quite fast using gesture typing" basically you lot just aspire to be cripples.
01:27	mircea_popescu	"oh, how glorious if i couldn't stand and i only had one weavery appendage i could move"
01:27	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60200 @ 0.00037881 = 22.8044 BTC [+]
01:27	*	asciilifeform 'tried' once (broke a hand) - didn't like
01:27	decimation	mircea_popescu: if one day you have a stroke and could only blink one eye, you might find the skill useful
01:28	mircea_popescu	i would certainly not use my only fucking remining blinker to code omfg.
01:28	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu is colorblind, that's a kind of crippled
01:29	ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: you're not the poor sod who'd starve without coding either.
01:30	ben_vulpes	<asciilifeform> [04:55] that the fella actually thought he was 'using pgp' << wait wut? who biffed at this epic scale?
01:30	*	BingoBoingo doesn't imagine his ideal interface for coding uses, but for handling "ideal datacenter" eventually
01:30	mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes i'd blink my way to broadway success!
01:30	asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-2dfEc70gU << airplane from earlier
01:30	assbot	RARE | Tupolev Tu-95MS Inflight | HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Givx6Z )
01:31	asciilifeform	peculiarly good film
01:31	decimation	asciilifeform: the 'long range aviation command' still flies those things
01:33	*	asciilifeform not specialist, doesn't know what the point of those machines is, if you have rocket
01:33	asciilifeform	but for some odd - i suspect, ceremonial - reason - they still exist
01:34	decimation	well, they can carry rockets
01:34	asciilifeform	(ballistic rocket)
01:34	asciilifeform	why such a thing as 'trans-oceanic bomber' is needed, is beyond me
01:35	decimation	heh. to annoy countries across the ocean
01:35	trinque	you can't buzz your enemies with a rocket, turning back at the last moment
01:35	asciilifeform	so - ceremonial.
01:36	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25533 @ 0.00038703 = 9.882 BTC [+]
01:36	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: ceremonial, and... at one point they outnumbered rockets... Hence NIke Hercules
01:36	asciilifeform	at one point musketry.
01:36	asciilifeform	at one point slings.
01:37	asciilifeform	but for some peculiar reason - no musket brigades in modern armies
01:37	asciilifeform	nor sling corps
01:38	mircea_popescu	ahem.
01:38	mircea_popescu	;;google 13eme dragons parachutistes
01:38	gribble	13th Parachute Dragoon Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Parachute_Dragoon_Regiment>; 13e régiment de dragons parachutistes - Ministère de la Défense: <http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/presentation/organisation-des-forces/arme-blindee-cavalerie/13e-regiment-de-dragons-parachutistes>; 13eme RDP - Régiment des dragons parachutistes (1 more message)
01:38	mircea_popescu	suck on that for a while. paradragoons!
01:39	decimation	wait, I thought dragoons were horse-mounted infantry
01:40	decimation	do they paracute with their horse?
01:40	mircea_popescu	lol.
01:40	asciilifeform	laugh, but ru parachutists often had dogs
01:40	asciilifeform	nobody trained the beasts to pull the cord, no. dropped in boxes
01:40	asciilifeform	with autoparachute
01:41	decimation	oh, re: La Marseillaise < I find the lyrics hilarious, especially in modern times
01:41	decimation	a white communist and a black algerian living in the suburbs could both sing La Marseillaise and mean exactly opposite things
01:42	asciilifeform	(you can drop anything you want with chutes, even tank. read how.)
01:42	decimation	asciilifeform: a dog is a useful asset in the military, for a variety of tasks
01:42	asciilifeform	well yes
01:43	asciilifeform	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882621/Special-forces-soldiers-dogs-tandem-parachute-freefall-10-000ft.html << nato soldiers had dogs tied to them instead
01:43	assbot	Special forces soldiers and their dogs take part in tandem parachute freefall | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQt80R )
01:43	asciilifeform	turns out
01:44	trinque	sounds like a great way to get sprayed with shit and piss on the way down
01:44	asciilifeform	if muzzle falls off,
01:44	asciilifeform	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Picture_of_inverted_hanging.png/220px-Picture_of_inverted_hanging.png
01:44	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GQtlB0 )
01:45	decimation	'and the dog too!'
01:45	asciilifeform	decimation: the dog was there to add 'spice'
01:46	asciilifeform	he'd nibble a bit
01:46	asciilifeform	notice both hanging by legs
01:46	mircea_popescu	motherfucker
01:46	mircea_popescu	google is now serving "filtered" results and no way to turn the shit off anymore ?!
01:46	mircea_popescu	WHAT THE FUCK AMERICA! GET LOST!
01:47	mircea_popescu	;;google skydiving fucking gif
01:47	gribble	fuck yeah skydiving: <http://fuckyeahskydiving.tumblr.com/>; Referees Showing Some Sass, a Skydiving Seizure, and the GIFs ...: <https://sports.vice.com/article/referees-showing-some-sass-a-skydiving-seizure-and-the-gifs-you-missed>; airplane+skydiver=fuck - Album on Imgur: <http://imgur.com/a/M4sK5>
01:47	mircea_popescu	^ was going to say teh americans are taking their bitches
01:47	mircea_popescu	but no, they aren't.
01:47	trinque	censorship, the humor destroyer
01:47	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'google images' ?
01:48	asciilifeform	still shows as optional here
01:48	mircea_popescu	Moderate SafeSearch is on and clickable. if you click on it tho,. "Set your SafeSearch preferences in the blue box below." and the blue box says
01:48	mircea_popescu	SafeSearch Filtering
01:48	mircea_popescu	Google's SafeSearch blocks web pages containing explicit sexual content from appearing in search results.
01:48	mircea_popescu	Show most relevant results
01:48	mircea_popescu	Filter explicit results.
01:48	mircea_popescu	which bs.
01:48	trinque	google "skydiving fucking"... get http://s17.photobucket.com/user/wetfrombirthx/media/newyears08066.jpg.html
01:48	assbot	newyears08066.jpg Photo by wetfrombirthx | Photobucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiyO6n )
01:49	BingoBoingo	!up BananaLotus
01:49	BingoBoingo	!up guruvan
01:49	mircea_popescu	trinque there's this one bangbros if memory serves scene
01:49	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: works as usual here
01:49	mircea_popescu	where they did actually spend the 28k or w/e to shoot a chick being pounded in air
01:49	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i guess it won't last.
01:50	mircea_popescu	google has been on a shitmission the past 5 years or so, it becomes less and less useful.
01:50	asciilifeform	what's been censored anyway
01:50	asciilifeform	w4r3z ?
01:50	mircea_popescu	well, apparently for some reason i can't have pronz in google nao.
01:50	asciilifeform	weird
01:50	asciilifeform	what else is 'images' used for.
01:51	mircea_popescu	last week they came up with the "no pronz in bloigger" thing, which got everyone riled up so they decided they'll just implement it covertly instead of overtly
01:51	trinque	mircea_popescu: found this http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=13d_1318607927
01:51	assbot	LiveLeak.com - Skydiving Sex Stunt (un-censored version!) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giz8lA )
01:51	mircea_popescu	and generally speaking i'm sick and fucking tired of the new generation of usians and their ideas about the world.
01:51	asciilifeform	new?
01:52	mircea_popescu	newly voiced.
01:52	BingoBoingo	;;later tell gabriel_laddel Titties of the continent http://motherchubbypornphotos.org/teenfatanalsex/piece/piec/pi1025.jpg
01:52	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GizfO0 )
01:52	gribble	The operation succeeded.
01:52	asciilifeform	as if the old idiots didn't try to censor pr0n
01:52	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i read as 'fatal anal sex'
01:52	*	mircea_popescu is fucking riled up.
01:52	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: lol
01:52	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: does engl. have a catch-term for 'fatal buggery' ?
		↖ ↖
01:52	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Maybe yoy are being singled out
01:53	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Yes, "Mr Hands"
01:53	mircea_popescu	conspiraci!
01:53	asciilifeform	ru 'turkish wedding'
01:53	trinque	BingoBoingo: *shudder*
01:53	asciilifeform	normally implies spade handle or the like
01:53	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Mr Hands died organically, by horse and normal intestinal flora
01:54	asciilifeform	'by horse' l0l
01:54	BingoBoingo	!up gabriel_laddel
01:54	gabriel_laddel	Thanks.
01:54	gabriel_laddel	BingoBoingo: r.e., tits - eww.
01:54	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Literlly, Horse fucked Mr Hands to death
01:54	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform some people do a lot more than spade handles, for fun. let me introduce you to daisy, from ny. http://gatsbyswhore.tumblr.com/ <<
01:54	assbot	Gatsby's Whore ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQv757 )
01:54	trinque	BingoBoingo: only took a few good thrusts
01:55	gabriel_laddel	SUBJECTIVE TASTE ISN'T
01:55	BingoBoingo	gabriel_laddel: Seriously that one, small waist big tits, what is the problem?
01:55	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: l0l
01:55	gabriel_laddel	I guess I just have different tastes
01:56	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: good candidate for smuggling 'mule'
01:56	mircea_popescu	yup.
01:56	asciilifeform	... or not. could fall out
01:56	asciilifeform	much too easily
01:56	mircea_popescu	i kinda suspect that's how the entire anal stretcher niche got to be a thing.
01:57	mircea_popescu	nah.
01:57	asciilifeform	but at any rate, betcha that thing's way out of calibration
01:57	mircea_popescu	http://41.media.tumblr.com/ffd6514e0619eaaa5d2295c912d807ef/tumblr_n877uvkGV61sg0ns8o1_1280.jpg
01:57	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GiA9df )
01:57	trinque	bet it makes for easier human skull exit
01:57	mircea_popescu	"even the asshole shoots once"
01:57	gabriel_laddel	http://www.shadbase.com/gamer360/
01:57	assbot	Shädbase - L33t Gamer ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiAf4J )
01:58	trinque	I wonder if there've been cultures that did fisting as a sort of obvious "of course you fist before squatting out humans"
01:58	mircea_popescu	;;ud squatting out
01:58	gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squatter | squatter. In public toilets one who sits all day on a commode waiting for a penis to come at him through a glory ... We can't get these squatters out of our house!
01:59	asciilifeform	trinque: questionable given the actual bottleneck in the system (cervix)
01:59	asciilifeform	trinque: not that no one tried - but how well worked.
01:59	BingoBoingo	<asciilifeform> ... or not. could fall out << Sutures
02:00	trinque	BingoBoingo: zipper!
02:00	asciilifeform	superglue
02:00	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo behind the times
02:00	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you have a purely anatomical view of what is a physiological process.
02:00	mircea_popescu	the girls that fist that i fucked don't have worse grasp than the naive set.
02:00	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform> superglue << Too great a chance of "healing"
02:00	mircea_popescu	similarly, the girls that can swallow a snake don't puke a lot.
02:01	asciilifeform	^ that one actually makes naive sense
02:01	BingoBoingo	Sutures spaced, don't make matching folds the same... cyanoacrylate though...
02:02	trinque	mircea_popescu: the thing does seem to have an "accepting" mode
02:02	trinque	activated by being well-fucked among other methods I'm sure
02:02	mircea_popescu	now obviously if done badly/traumatically the results are more like you know, that guy with the telephone poole
02:03	mircea_popescu	another internet classic which is apparently disappeared.
02:04	mircea_popescu	pretty sure it was on rotten.com
02:05	trinque	I'm off, goodnight all
02:15	*	asciilifeform got up to check on... deer trying to get in
02:15	gabriel_laddel	hahaha
02:15	asciilifeform	tried to take photo, but 2 in the morning and damn near impossible to get a good shot through glass and mosquito net
02:15	gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: Why did you choose to name the #b-a lordship as such? Is there a historical system of governance you are drawing inspiration from in particular?
02:16	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the photo in question was the famous 'goatse'
02:16	asciilifeform	and it can never disappear
02:17	asciilifeform	the lonesome disk that survives the great nukefest will turn out to contain it
02:17	*	asciilifeform to bed
02:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00038703 = 15.7908 BTC [+]
02:18	adlai	true legends never die, they simply fade to plaintext... http://goatse.ch/
02:18	assbot	ASCII Goatse ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQzWvh )
02:20	adlai	gabriel_laddel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Serene_Republic
02:20	assbot	Most Serene Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQAjWW )
02:20	BingoBoingo	* asciilifeform got up to check on... deer trying to get in << Left side of their face seems to be more receptive to blunt trauma if it comes to that... if your deer are anything like ours
02:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59654 @ 0.00038335 = 22.8684 BTC [-] {2}
02:35	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15147 @ 0.00036571 = 5.5394 BTC [-]
		~ 22 minutes ~
02:58	cazalla	haha holy fuck, derpopulous actually told the australian senate (with a straight face) he invisions a kid on a skateboard in indonesia running a billion dollar remittance business
03:00	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15904 @ 0.00036571 = 5.8163 BTC [-]
		~ 24 minutes ~
03:24	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15762 @ 0.00037023 = 5.8356 BTC [+]
03:28	fluffypony	lol cazalla
		~ 27 minutes ~
03:55	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00037023 = 6.0718 BTC [+]
04:01	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00036968 = 13.8075 BTC [-] {2}
		~ 30 minutes ~
04:31	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47850 @ 0.00036677 = 17.5499 BTC [-] {2}
04:34	kakobrekla	http://i.imgur.com/ose0MfD.gifv
04:35	assbot	This is bad, i guess. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NfnWIa )
04:39	fluffypony	ah South Africa
04:39	fluffypony	we're even training our lions, now
04:41	fluffypony	source vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeaztQK9If0
04:41	assbot	Lion opens car door - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18jEKNs )
04:43	adlai	clever girl!
04:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30390 @ 0.00037336 = 11.3464 BTC [+]
04:51	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/nnJLHk9.jpg
04:51	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/18jFfqX )
04:51	mircea_popescu	happened to someone else too!
05:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64542 @ 0.00037357 = 24.111 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 18 minutes ~
05:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4571 @ 0.00036429 = 1.6652 BTC [-]
05:25	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65166 @ 0.00036851 = 24.0143 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 45 minutes ~
06:11	fluffypony	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=974058.msg10633083#msg10633083
		↖
06:11	assbot	Chinese Mining mogul FriedCat has stolen more than a million in AM hash SCAM ... ( http://bit.ly/1EMBJ5p )
06:11	fluffypony	"I think FriedCat is not a real name. Does anyone know about FriedCat's real identity ?"
		↖
06:11	*	fluffypony giggles
06:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104400 @ 0.00037767 = 39.4287 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 20 minutes ~
06:32	punkman	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_HZWhmWoAIoxD8.jpg:large
06:32	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1F8HkB1 )
06:36	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00037646 = 4.6681 BTC [-]
06:48	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00038333 = 13.4932 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 31 minutes ~
07:20	jurov	mod6: i have (upon some consultation with you) already published kinda-0.5.3.1
07:21	jurov	so to keep things clear, would be best to notch the version up.. but since you already officially announced it
07:21	jurov	then dunno
07:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.000372 = 23.8452 BTC [-] {2}
07:27	jurov	btw, #bitcoin-foundation is taken and invite-only
07:27	jurov	but #bitcoinfoundation was free and is now regged to me
07:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52700 @ 0.00038479 = 20.2784 BTC [+]
07:29	cazalla	scoopbot fetch
07:30	cazalla	http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/
		↖
07:30	assbot	Leaked Emails Detail Inner Workings Of Josh Garza's Scams | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1BH153L )
07:33	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00037105 = 8.1631 BTC [-]
07:35	scoopbot	New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/
		~ 29 minutes ~
08:05	danielpbarron	https://bitcointalk.org/seclog.php
08:05	assbot	Security log ... ( http://bit.ly/1M56OS6 )
08:06	danielpbarron	height=249322 vs height=198662 (usb3: height=234461)
08:06	punkman	cazalla: lol those emails
08:08	cazalla	hilarious eh
08:11	jurov	<Pierre_Rochard> ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. << what about paymium?
		↖
08:12	punkman	cazalla: who leaked the emails btw?
08:13	punkman	cazalla: "Antonopoulos' appearance as an expect witness" << expert*
08:14	cazalla	not sure tbh, likely someone that worked there seeing garza burned bridges with his previous cohorts
08:14	cazalla	punkman, ty
08:14	punkman	you should find out how much they paid derpopoulos
08:15	fluffypony	"just seems pretty armature for him"
08:15	fluffypony	wtf spelling
08:15	fluffypony	I hope that's autocorrect wobblies on his part
08:16	cazalla	fluffypony, nope, that is how he spells
08:16	punkman	typing on a touch screen is just the best
08:16	*	fluffypony shudders
08:16	fluffypony	children should not be allowed to start companies.
08:17	punkman	why not
08:21	cazalla	there's more too, not as big a deal but still lulzy.. an employee says he needs some software for his work so garza sends him a cracked ms office https://drive.google.com/a/geniusesatwork.com/file/d/0By3omGwrRu9lcWpYSjZ3Q0IyOVU/view?pli=1
08:21	assbot	Microsoft Office 2011 _CRACKED - operatingsystem.rs.zip - Google Drive ... ( http://bit.ly/1M58DhX )
08:25	cazalla	guess rumours that he left US for Belguim is true too given his kids airline tickets http://mt.thalys.com/?srvgucc8cjnf4klwcq http://mt.thalys.com/?tonc68vv189e0pbv27
08:25	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1wHSL3u )
08:25	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1wHSHAL )
08:26	cazalla	train even
08:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46314 @ 0.00038266 = 17.7225 BTC [+]
08:35	davout	cazalla: lol
08:35	davout	that's next tuesday
08:35	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37886 @ 0.0003764 = 14.2603 BTC [-]
08:35	davout	if i count correctly
08:35	davout	coach 3, seat 16 :D
		~ 18 minutes ~
08:54	cazalla	;;later tell mircea_popescu did ya see kruger of kruger industrial smoothing died?
08:54	gribble	The operation succeeded.
08:54	mod6	<+jurov> mod6: i have (upon some consultation with you) already published kinda-0.5.3.1 << wat?
08:55	mod6	and i have #btcf
08:55	jurov	btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/?v=0.5.3.1 mod6 i explicitly asked you how to label this one
08:55	cazalla	apparently kruger shot himself in the head back in 2012 but it didn't work so good
08:55	jurov	and the consesus was 0.5.3.1 is as good as any
08:56	mod6	oh i see what you're saying
08:56	mod6	is that stuff patched?
08:56	jurov	yes, it was even published on website
08:57	mod6	o.O
08:57	mod6	i've never seen this before.
		↖
08:57	jurov	"chicken" was first version
08:57	jurov	then there was (your) build script with
08:57	jurov	additional patches
08:57	jurov	which we agreed upon to call 0.5.3.1
08:58	jurov	and the development goe son
08:58	jurov	http://thebitcoin.foundation/v0.5.3-0-gd05c03a.tar.gz and this is published, don't remember which one is that
08:58	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/17QhfMj )
08:58	mod6	that's the base code
08:58	jurov	chicken?
08:59	mod6	no, the unpatched source from the powerrangers.
08:59	jurov	aha
09:00	jurov	http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000037.html and this is what i published as 0.5.3.1
09:00	jurov	because it does include the version bump patch
09:02	mod6	which patches does it include specifically?
09:02	jurov	you don't know which patches your script includes?
09:02	jurov	iirce they are listed here http://thebitcoin.foundation/
09:02	assbot	..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/17heCm3 )
09:02	mod6	to make it build statically, there is another patch that I still need to submit yet (probably today) and another patch & full source to submit of a modified poratronic build script.
09:03	mod6	ah, it was with my script. ok
09:03	jurov	:D
09:04	jurov	so i propose to go on to 0.5.3.2 .. release early, release often
		↖
09:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00038479 = 4.983 BTC [+]
09:11	mod6	so yeah, when we said we were going to release in january; we hadn't hit the 160`001 tx sig verification issue yet and we hadn't considered the last-minute requirement of a static build.
09:12	mod6	so what you have is ok, but you're missing the stuff that'll be pushed out before we make a signed tar
09:12	mod6	which we're referring to as a "milestone" release
09:12	jurov	there will be many more bumps. don't expect any Release to End All Releases in near future
09:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117550 @ 0.00038551 = 45.3167 BTC [+] {2}
09:13	mod6	which will be: v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 (static-makefile) } + modified poratronic build script & release notes.
09:13	jurov	better to make more minor releases properly numbered
09:14	mod6	we want to ensure that what is "released" actually works, and has been thoroughly tested.
09:15	mod6	we do a lot of regression testing :]
09:15	jurov	this is same pretense as what phoundation operates "it works we tested it"
09:15	jurov	nope. we are at bleeding edge and use at own peril
09:17	mod6	heh. ok what i mean is, "it compiles and we got it to fully sync, send/receive, generate..." but yeah, use at your own risk. we want to deliver something that doesn't just blow up -- kinda what ascii was frustrated with yesterday.
09:17	mod6	make sense?
09:18	jurov	not
09:19	jurov	i am just not placing any expectations to any piece of software anymore
		↖
09:19	jurov	but i understand you as management that wants to label the product somehow,
09:20	mod6	haha. ok. but i don't see a problem with testing our own thing. even if no one else uses this, i'd like to know if it works or not.
09:21	jurov	that actually stregthens the reason for bumping the version numbers often so that we can say X blows up when.., X+1 does not
09:24	jurov	so that people won't act surprised that "there was some version published" like you did few minutes ago
09:25	mod6	when we release there will be a formal annoucement to the mailing list, signed patches by ben & I, and an included signed tar of the patched source code with release notes.
09:26	Pierre_Rochard	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041323 < thanks for the tip, I’ll set up a euro bank account when I’m in france this summer
		↖
09:26	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 13:11:16; jurov: <Pierre_Rochard> ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. << what about paymium?
09:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 228740 @ 0.00038814 = 88.7831 BTC [+] {5}
09:26	jurov	Pierre_Rochard: and you're aware it's ran by davout ?
09:27	Pierre_Rochard	jurov: I am, brain had not connected all the way to “I should try it out”
09:27	jurov	heh
09:28	jurov	mod6 so then please if you publish signed build scripts like http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000037.html
09:28	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1B6utP2 )
09:28	jurov	set the version to 0.5.3.x.dev
09:29	jurov	so that no one mistakes that for release
09:29	mod6	jurov: so as far as shorter release cycles, i think going forward they will be. the foundation will focus on say, one specific problem and then tackle it, patch it, and then regression test, release.
09:34	PeterL	why in c is a long int the same size as int?
		↖
09:38	mike_c	because int is shorthand for "long int"
09:38	mike_c	short int = 16 bits, long int = 32 bits
09:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29450 @ 0.00038995 = 11.484 BTC [+]
09:47	jurov	trinque, have you tried drakon editor? i actually use it for business logic
09:48	jurov	it isn't faster to create the code, but it makes it sooo easier to find the right place where stuff needs to be fixed
09:48	jurov	say, after several months
09:49	jurov	the downside is, generated code for complicated diagrams isn't anything you'd want to show to anyone
09:57	lobbes	Dr-G: You gotta fix your connection, my man. grep -c 'Dr-G' on my logs for yesterday returns over 100 lines...
10:10	thestringpuller	mike_c: lies. all lies. this is only if you use strict typing and you machine is coherent. every machine treats it differently!
10:11	thestringpuller	short ints however are always shorter than long ints hence the name
10:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00038995 = 11.2306 BTC [+]
10:28	jurov	!up Xuthus
10:28	jurov	!up indiancandy1
10:31	indiancandy1	why thank u
10:31	indiancandy1	any one know anything about internet marketing#
10:32	PeterL	I am sure you can search for "search engine optimization", or SEO, and lots of sites will come up who promise to help
10:36	PeterL	mircea_popescu:asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/nnJLHk9.jpg << I don't know why, but this made me laugh until my eyes waterred
10:36	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1M5tYYw )
10:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.00039007 = 17.0461 BTC [+] {3}
11:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3510 @ 0.00039117 = 1.373 BTC [+]
11:04	thestringpuller	http://imgur.com/RJUknE7
11:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30283 @ 0.00039142 = 11.8534 BTC [+] {2}
11:11	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36567 @ 0.00039337 = 14.3844 BTC [+]
11:24	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67900 @ 0.00038447 = 26.1055 BTC [-] {2}
11:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8842 @ 0.00038129 = 3.3714 BTC [-]
11:31	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54300 @ 0.00038129 = 20.704 BTC [-]
		~ 35 minutes ~
12:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00039337 = 4.7401 BTC [+]
12:09	asciilifeform	for zoologists >> http://housejeffries.com/articles/unix-delenda-est << every month or so, i turn up a new lamer who read my articles but catastrophically failed to get the message. the ones who 'agree', like this specimen, are the worst kind.
12:09	assbot	housejeffries ... ( http://bit.ly/1BSLUpS )
		~ 30 minutes ~
12:39	PeterL	asciilifeform: why do you say he did not get the message?
12:48	asciilifeform	PeterL: article is full of retardation (e.g. 'immutability', 'optimize for novices', etc)
12:49	asciilifeform	too much to list
12:58	BingoBoingo	Updated http://cryptome.org/2015/03/snowden-hk-security-devices.htm
12:58	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1B77x2n )
13:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167600 @ 0.00037987 = 63.6662 BTC [-] {3}
13:17	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55483 @ 0.00038964 = 21.6184 BTC [+] {2}
13:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118297 @ 0.00039874 = 47.1697 BTC [+] {3}
13:21	BingoBoingo	!up sjsqd
13:21	sjsqd	Thank you
13:21	jurov	!up sjsqd
13:21	sjsqd	I'm writing some articles on the bitcoin foundation via Let's Talk Bitcoin
13:21	sjsqd	and happened upon http://thebitcoin.foundation/ during a search
13:21	assbot	..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLALLE )
13:21	sjsqd	Would anyone be interested in discussing it with me?
13:22	jurov	just ask
13:22	sjsqd	I couldn't find much reference to the original foundation in the documentation
13:22	asciilifeform	sjsqd: the first thing to know is that there are two foundations.
13:22	sjsqd	but is it correct to title it as the 'pirate' bitcoin foundation?
13:22	jurov	sjsqd: the original one is the pirate one
13:22	fluffypony	altfoundation
13:23	fluffypony	:-P
13:23	nubbins`	sjsqd, what jurov said
13:23	sjsqd	is this thread official in nature? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934517.0
13:23	assbot	Introducing new "the only official foundation of Bitcoin" [sign up as president] ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAPen )
13:23	PeterL	this new foundations works on the assumption that the previous one does not exist
13:23	sjsqd	ah ok
13:23	nubbins`	sjsqd the only official statements are PGP-signed statements from members of assbot's wot
13:23	sjsqd	I have done quite an amount of research on the foundation but never seen this page
13:24	nubbins`	if you check the mailing list archives on the .foundation website, there's a bunch of stuff there
13:24	sjsqd	do you know if anyone from the previous foundation is aware of it?
		↖
13:24	nubbins`	who cares
13:24	sjsqd	will do nubbins`
13:24	sjsqd	nubbins`: the goal of my articles is to try and ascertain how transparently the foundation currently operates
13:25	asciilifeform	sjsqd: the more heavily-advertised 'foundation' (vessenes, hearn, andresen, et al) was a scam from day one
13:25	nubbins`	^
13:25	sjsqd	which I'm not aware anyone else has done so far
13:25	sjsqd	its certainly interesting to see two foundations with the same name (:
13:25	sjsqd	I will look at the mailing list, if I have further questions is there any email address I could use or is this IRC channel the best method of communication?
13:25	PeterL	this chan is best
13:26	nubbins`	think of them as the foundation and the phoundation, with the other guys being the ph
13:26	BingoBoingo	sjsqd: That foundation has never really had any transparency. Vessenes birthed it in the shadows and snuck out the same way.
13:26	sjsqd	ok great, I will keep a record of this channel in my notes then
13:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86800 @ 0.0003869 = 33.5829 BTC [-]
13:26	sjsqd	https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/a-fresh-look-at-the-bitcoin-foundation-part-one
13:26	assbot	A Fresh Look at the Bitcoin Foundation, Part One | Lets Talk Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAWXl )
13:26	sjsqd	This is the first article I made if anyone is interested
13:26	sjsqd	second is here: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/transparency-a-fresh-look-at-the-bitcoin-foundation-part-two
13:26	assbot	Transparency: A Fresh Look at the Bitcoin Foundation, Part Two | Lets Talk Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAXdR )
13:26	sjsqd	I will probably be publishing a third at some point this week
13:26	nubbins`	rad
13:27	nubbins`	this foundation is more interested in uh
13:27	nubbins`	making the codebase not a steaming pile of shit
13:27	PeterL	is gmaxwell associated with the phoundation? I remember him coming by here a few times
13:27	nubbins`	instead of campaigning/rallying/whatever
13:27	sjsqd	nubbins`:interesting
13:27	nubbins`	sjsqd the latest foundation release is 0.5.3.1
13:28	sjsqd	nubbins`:given the current state of foundation communications it is actually quite difficult to ascertain exactly what it is tasked with doing
13:28	nubbins`	think of it as a LTS stream
13:28	sjsqd	I'm still quite new to bitcoin, is the client that you release an alternative client?
13:28	nubbins`	it's the official foundation client :D
13:28	jurov	no it's the original client
13:28	jurov	it should be stripped to bare minimum first
13:29	sjsqd	I guess the term official/alternative isn't the best to use
13:29	nubbins`	based on the original 0.5.3 source code, with plain ol' unix patches applied to de-turdify it
13:29	sjsqd	but I assume the client you work on is different to bitcoin core?
		↖
13:29	nubbins`	each patch is intended to be small enough that a human can read and understand it
13:29	sjsqd	but works with bitcoin just the same as any other client (multibit etc) does?
13:29	ben_vulpes	sjsqd: it's just the old code.
13:29	nubbins`	the goal is to trim the fat from the oldest still-working code base
13:29	ben_vulpes	sjsqd: it's just. old. code.
13:29	asciilifeform	sjsqd: starting point was phoundation's release circa 2012
		↖
13:29	nubbins`	rather than add more fat to the same, which is how the current "bitcoin core" release came to be
13:29	sjsqd	ahh ok understood
13:29	ben_vulpes	no "gavinblocks"
13:30	ben_vulpes	someone removed the "alert" feature
13:30	ben_vulpes	dns is on the chopping block, etc.
13:30	nubbins`	win32 "features" removed
13:30	asciilifeform	already zapped
13:30	ben_vulpes	a right, asciilifeform excised the dns.
13:30	sjsqd	very interesting
13:30	ben_vulpes	no win32, no qt
13:30	nubbins`	slowly bringing it closer to the ideal of "one program to do one task"
13:30	asciilifeform	in the process of removing the idiot hardcoded seed list
13:30	nubbins`	ripping qt was ++
13:30	ben_vulpes	the question under consideration is "what precisely does it mean to bitcoinate?"
13:30	sjsqd	ok I will save everyone's time and look through the mailing list, I might return with some further questions later on
13:30	sjsqd	thanks for your time
13:30	ben_vulpes	the goal is to do that and nothing more.
13:31	BingoBoingo	<sjsqd> but works with bitcoin just the same as any other client (multibit etc) does? << Very different from multibit. Multibit is based on the Hearn BitcoinJ turd.
13:33	jurov	sjsqd, you can peruse the searchable logs here, too
13:33	nubbins`	^
13:34	sjsqd	BingoBoingo: I'm not that well acquainted with how the different clients originated or their quality, more just a question of whether it is a bitcoin or an altcoin client; from what I understand it is a bitcoin client
13:34	sjsqd	ahh I see the URL for logs in the title
13:34	sjsqd	thanks for the pointer
13:34	ben_vulpes	sjsqd: a bitcoin client.
13:34	sjsqd	ben_vulpes:thanks
13:36	danielpbarron	sjsqd, how many LTBcoin did you get for writing those?
13:37	sjsqd	I got about 180k for the first one
13:37	sjsqd	clocked in at about 40ish USD
13:37	sjsqd	but I am holding the LTBcoin
13:37	sjsqd	(I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disclose that)
13:37	sjsqd	not enough to live on
13:37	sjsqd	but a good alternative income
13:37	danielpbarron	what determines how much you get for an article?
13:38	sjsqd	you basically earn based upon your proportion of page views
		↖
13:38	sjsqd	its all calculated automatically as far as I'm aware
13:38	sjsqd	there is an editor too who makes my posts more readable
13:38	sjsqd	she gets a cut before I do
13:38	jurov	sjsqd, you know about qntra? it also pays (kinda) contributors
13:39	sjsqd	No I hadn't heard of it
13:39	jurov	qnra.net :)
13:39	sjsqd	Thanks I will check it out
13:39	jurov	* qntra.net
13:39	sjsqd	I found out about let's talk bitcoin via the foundation forums (andresen forums if you want to call it that)
13:39	danielpbarron	your 180k ltbcoin are worth about 0.02 bitcoin by my estimation
13:39	sjsqd	because I made some posts saying the website wasn't adequate in certain terms
13:40	danielpbarron	that's like what, 6 bucks?
13:40	danielpbarron	i wrote 2 paragraphs for qntra and its worth like 15 bucks
13:40	sjsqd	danielpbarron: I'm not interested in writing for money anyway
13:40	danielpbarron	lolk, then i guess you're in the right place
13:40	sjsqd	according to poloniex 180k is about 0.16
13:41	sjsqd	where I live I can't buy bitcoins easily
13:41	sjsqd	so its nice to have a little coming in from writing
13:41	danielpbarron	i checked the actual DEX
13:41	sjsqd	I used to blog years and years ago
13:41	BingoBoingo	sjsqd: Anyway the qntra thing can probably also help with some background on differences between the Vessenes' foundation and the (dot)foundation
13:41	sjsqd	even with hundreds of thousands of page views I only ever made about 70 USD over 2-3 years
		↖
13:41	danielpbarron	no you didn't
13:41	sjsqd	BingoBoingo:thanks I'll have a look on there
13:41	danielpbarron	you said you still have your LTBcoin
13:42	danielpbarron	that means you still have.. ltbcoin, not dollars
13:42	sjsqd	danielpbarron:I was referring to a different blog
13:42	sjsqd	pre-bitcoin days (to some extent)
13:42	sjsqd	completely separate platform, just was using it as a point of reference
13:43	sjsqd	I might look at writing something for qntra
13:43	sjsqd	let's talk bitcoin is interesting because there are quite a few podcasts and such
13:44	danielpbarron	podcasts are trash
13:44	asciilifeform	sjsqd: there are, approximately, two 'bitcoin universes.' the one where scammers and u.s. fed stoolies scratch one another's backs,
13:44	pete_dushenski	sjsqd: I might look at writing something for qntra << wot first http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/13/qntra-reaffirms-wot-irc-yeshiva-in-no-way-optional/
13:44	assbot	Qntra Reaffirms That The WoT And IRC Yeshiva Are In No Way Optional | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1AJJS49 )
13:44	asciilifeform	and this one.
13:44	danielpbarron	nothing of value is discussed in a podcast
13:44	PeterL	I would much prefer to read an article than to listen to some guy talking
13:44	sjsqd	I don't personally listen to them but there are some interesting topics
13:45	danielpbarron	no, there really aren't
13:45	danielpbarron	that is a common misconception
13:45	sjsqd	I understand the idea of bitcoin universes, I didn't get into it to make a quick buck selling for cash or anything
13:45	sjsqd	I read about bitcoin a few years back
13:45	sjsqd	downloaded the mining software, my ADD kicked in
13:45	sjsqd	and I went and played games
13:46	sjsqd	but I've read as much as my mind can understand on it (I'm not a coder though)
13:46	danielpbarron	!b 4
13:46	assbot	Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2F5VY0V.txt )
13:46	sjsqd	and I really like the idea of being able to carry around my money on my phone
13:46	sjsqd	or have my passport on my phone
13:46	danielpbarron	ack a bashed too soon
13:46	sjsqd	and I live in a city where the government evolves quickly
13:46	PeterL	lol, bitcoin is not meant to be on a phone
13:47	sjsqd	so the likelihood of bitcoin being adopted widely is high (although it hasn't happened just yet)
13:47	danielpbarron	what does government have to do with it!?
13:47	sjsqd	PeterL:I use my phone, Windows computer and a VPS or two to store my coins
13:47	PeterL	read the logs, then you will understand how bitcoin should (and should not) be used
13:47	sjsqd	danielpbarron:in this specific locale the government has to allow it because of terrorism and money laundering etc
13:47	sjsqd	but it is also a locale where you could pay for a house in cash and no one would ask any questions
13:47	danielpbarron	what locale is that? everywhere?
13:47	sjsqd	Dubai
13:48	PeterL	do you consider your phone a safe place for your money?
13:48	sjsqd	camel to computer in 30 years
13:48	sjsqd	PeterL depends, I try to be sensible about what I install
13:48	danielpbarron	clearly you aren't
13:48	danielpbarron	you install malware
13:48	pete_dushenski	windows is sensible on what planet ?
13:48	PeterL	phones can get lost or stolen, then what?
13:48	sjsqd	I need it for work unfortunately
13:49	sjsqd	my phone is encrypted
13:49	danielpbarron	so... stupid..
13:49	sjsqd	and cannot be unlocked without pin code
13:49	pete_dushenski	a $100 linux laptop does the trick
13:49	sjsqd	all my wallets are locked and require separate passwords to open
13:49	sjsqd	a friend of mine had his phone stolen
13:49	PeterL	how long would it take an attacker to brute force your pin?
13:49	pete_dushenski	of course, your level of security depends on how much you're trying to secure
13:49	sjsqd	PeterL it wouldn't matter because all my wallets are locked, no passwords are stored locally
13:49	pete_dushenski	but no one wants to be another '4,500 btc hard drive in the landfill' guy
13:50	sjsqd	I'm looking at upgrading to a phone with a fingerprint scanner
13:50	sjsqd	or moving to the Mozilla phone or something
13:50	*	danielpbarron stabs sjsqd
13:50	PeterL	pete_dushenski: paper backups are a good idea?
13:50	mike_c	easy dpb :) everybody starts somewhere.
13:50	sjsqd	pete_dushenski:yes for long term usage, no one is going to pull out a fully fledged laptop to pay for their groceries
13:50	pete_dushenski	sjsqd: biometric: http://www.contravex.com/2014/09/27/on-the-stupidity-of-biometric-security-for-smartphones-and-smartwatches/
13:50	assbot	On The Stupidity Of Biometric Security for Smartphones and Smartwatches | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLC25j )
13:51	PeterL	why do you think you need bitcoin for groceries?
13:51	pete_dushenski	PeterL: i'd say so
13:51	sjsqd	PeterL:I enjoy eating
13:51	PeterL	convert btc -> local cash -> food
13:51	asciilifeform	sjsqd: in dubai, famously, there are 'gold atm' - where you run a card and get 100g bricks out. but do you pay for food with these ?
13:51	pete_dushenski	sjsqd: just because you like to eat, doesn't mean you should steal food
13:51	asciilifeform	!up sjsqd
13:52	sjsqd	asciilifeform:haha yes there are 2-3 of them, no I don't own any gold
13:52	asciilifeform	sjsqd: but if you did - would you think of paying for groceries with it ?
13:52	sjsqd	pete_dushenski:how is it stealing if the vendor eventually accepts bitcoin?
13:52	sjsqd	asciilifeform:no I'm very sceptical of gold for a number of reasons
13:52	sjsqd	I personally believe that the entire gold/silver/etc markets are manipulated like crazy
13:53	sjsqd	and I've seen firsthand how depending upon culture people will dump their life savings into buying some gold
13:53	sjsqd	when they get married or as an investment
13:53	sjsqd	and then it sits in a cupboard
13:53	asciilifeform	and this is the only reason you wouldn't want to pay in a restaurant with gold?
13:53	pete_dushenski	sjsqd: it's more along the lines of, just because you like to do something, doesn't mean than a particular avenue of approach is appropriate
13:53	sjsqd	its inconvenient obviously
13:53	asciilifeform	would you want to pay with diamonds? plutonium? rembrandts ?
13:54	sjsqd	asciilifeform:that's why I want to pay with bitcoin or something similar
13:54	asciilifeform	for a meal
13:54	sjsqd	I only ever pay with cash or my card
13:54	sjsqd	and my card has been cloned once, and I've had tons of issues with my bank
13:54	asciilifeform	sjsqd: try to understand why bitcoin is more analogous to diamonds or rembrandts than to the national currency you grew up with
13:54	asciilifeform	even though surface appearances may deceive
13:54	sjsqd	I hate operating hours of banks (even though you can access full bank services till like 10PM at nighttime here)
13:54	asciilifeform	and idiots are spending their coin as if it were toilet paper
13:55	sjsqd	asciilifeform:yes I kind of understand that bitcoin is more of a long term cryptocurrency (my view anyway) than a day-to-day currency for a number of reasons
13:55	PeterL	save in btc, spend dollars
13:55	sjsqd	PeterL:there is almost nowhere to even spend it here (beyond paying web hosting bills etc) so I am pretty much saving it right now
13:56	asciilifeform	sjsqd: this is actually good fortune, that you've nowhere to blow it just yet
13:56	sjsqd	the local currency here hasn't ever really fluctuated
13:56	sjsqd	it is permanently tied to the USD
13:56	sjsqd	3.68 AED - 1 USD
13:56	sjsqd	the same rating for something like 2 decades
13:56	asciilifeform	sjsqd: once you understand the above, it will never occur to you to carry bitcoin on your person in the street, or spend it in a restaurant
13:56	PeterL	and you don't see being tied to usd as a problem?
13:56	sjsqd	fuel price rarely changes
13:57	sjsqd	PeterL:I obviously do, but have little choice in the matter
13:57	PeterL	save in bitcoin, then you don't have to be tied to usd
13:57	sjsqd	I'm not wealthy (at all) so its more an incapability of keeping more bitcoin at the moment
13:58	sjsqd	asciilifeform:I haven't really spent any, only to show friends how it works
13:58	sjsqd	On a recent flight I used the plane's WiFi which cost like 1 USD
13:58	sjsqd	and managed to teach a friend in pakistan as well as a friend in Dubai how to set up a wallet on their phone
13:58	sjsqd	and sent money from 37,000 feet
13:59	sjsqd	obviously sent them some dust just to show them how it works
13:59	sjsqd	but beyond having to scrape into my savings to pay for a VPS here or there I actually don't have any way to spend it here yet
13:59	sjsqd	and I don't carry any worthwhile amount on my phone
13:59	danielpbarron	you should better teach them how to run a full node
13:59	sjsqd	danielpbarron:that depends on people's technical ability though
14:00	danielpbarron	the whole "crypto on your phone" thing is more of a hinderance than a help
14:00	sjsqd	danielpbarron:because it doesn't contribute network resources?
14:00	danielpbarron	they need to refine technical ability then; don't give them fire without teaching fire safety
14:01	lobbes	'crypto on phone' defeats the purpose of bitcoin
14:01	lobbes	which is a secure store of value
14:01	lobbes	that only you can access (if you know what you are doing)
14:02	sjsqd	danielpbarron:as much as I understand what you're saying its difficult to explain to people the fire safety aspect
14:02	sjsqd	Ubuntu is fairly easy
14:02	danielpbarron	so is a noose
14:02	sjsqd	but is a long way from any sort of plug and play operation
14:02	danielpbarron	just slip it over head
14:02	sjsqd	unless people understand how to compile software its too difficult
14:03	danielpbarron	understanding these things is like understanding how to ride a horse in the 1800s
14:03	danielpbarron	if you don't know how, you are practically illiterate
14:03	sjsqd	here there are interesting applications of bitcoin besides paying for things with phones
14:03	sjsqd	money remittance specifically
14:03	sjsqd	90% of the population are foreign
14:03	sjsqd	and send a shit ton of money through methods like western union or their banks
14:03	danielpbarron	paying for things with phones is NOT an application of bitcoin!
14:04	danielpbarron	you have apple pay and paypal and whatever app of choice for that
14:04	sjsqd	do you think there is an altcoin more suited for that?
14:04	danielpbarron	no
14:04	sjsqd	I would never, ever personally use anything branded by Apple in a million years
14:04	danielpbarron	but you use windows..
14:04	sjsqd	I don't care if its a lifeboat on the titanic
14:05	sjsqd	danielpbarron:mainly because Adobe won't release their software on Linux just yet
14:05	sjsqd	Windows is kind of a necessary evil if you want to play modern video games or use 'creative' software
14:05	danielpbarron	you won't use apple to literally save your life but you'll use windows to save your job.. ok..
14:05	sjsqd	my opinion anyway
14:05	sjsqd	I do some photography work so using Adobe is pretty much mandated
14:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43100 @ 0.00038453 = 16.5732 BTC [-]
14:06	sjsqd	Unless you want to deal with the limitations of GIMP
14:06	sjsqd	or deal with Apple's Aperture software
14:06	sjsqd	I understand open source could probably do a better job
14:06	sjsqd	but we haven't quite reached that point yet
14:06	sjsqd	having said that, my disdain for Adobe is growing on a daily basis
14:07	danielpbarron	that doesn't excuse you using bitcoin on your windows computer
14:07	sjsqd	tbh, if I had the choice I'd have a separate computer for linux and a separate computer for windows
14:07	danielpbarron	you do!
14:07	danielpbarron	my laptop cost 250 bucks on ebay
14:07	sjsqd	I have a laptop and I am moving *towards* that
14:07	danielpbarron	and even that is a bit pricy -- i picked one with a fast GPU
14:07	sjsqd	but at the moment I have a family member in intensive care unit
14:08	sjsqd	and I'm writing articles about the bitcoin foundation
14:08	sjsqd	as well as waiting for legalization of my residency status (its been 3 years of not being a resident so far)
14:08	sjsqd	so its kinda taken a back seat (:
14:08	sjsqd	I will be moving all my financial things onto Ubuntu or something similar fairly soon though
14:09	danielpbarron	ubuntu is not recommended
14:09	sjsqd	debian?
14:09	danielpbarron	maybe
14:09	sjsqd	jeez
14:09	sjsqd	debian is a challenge
14:09	danielpbarron	don't use gnome if so
14:09	danielpbarron	lol debian is easy
14:09	sjsqd	I've run a few debian VPS servers before
14:09	sjsqd	its all about balancing convenience vs security I suppose
14:09	sjsqd	screen. I hate screen.
14:10	sjsqd	its great functionally but it confuses the hell out of me
14:10	danielpbarron	you do realize debian can have a desktop environment, right?
14:10	thestringpuller	danielpbarron: you hate podcasts, but do you like radio at all?
14:10	sjsqd	the biggest thing I've noticed about computer security is that its almost impossible to get decent biometric security
14:10	danielpbarron	thestringpuller, not really
14:10	sjsqd	danielpbarron:yeah I tried it once on a VPS but it didn't end well
14:10	thestringpuller	danielpbarron: curious to the reason you dislike the medium?
14:11	jurov	sjsqd: biometric is overrated
14:11	danielpbarron	thestringpuller, if there is something worth discussing, just write a blog post
14:11	sjsqd	the problem I have with debian is that unless you run some specific version (I usually run the latest version) most of the documentation on the internet is kinda only 75% there
14:11	sjsqd	and unless you're familiar with how to compile etc it gets pretty confusing quickly
14:11	thestringpuller	jurov: i kno rite. so not only will someone kidnap me, they'll cut off or extract appendages to unlock my stuff...
14:12	danielpbarron	talking free-form into a mic is for people not smart enough to write down what they mean in a concise manner
14:12	thestringpuller	danielpbarron: ah. but what about say, Gang Busters? Or rehearsed stuff. Orson Welles War of the Worlds broadcast?
14:12	danielpbarron	sjsqd, not that i'm recommmending debian, but it uses a package manager that downloads binaries, not source
14:12	sjsqd	danielpbarron:to be fair when it comes to interviews I'd rather hear the full conversation rather than what someone else has cut up from the discussion
14:12	danielpbarron	i would recommend gentoo over debian
14:13	sjsqd	danielpbarron:yeah apt-get is easy enough to use, but when you need to install a custom altcoin wallet for instance
14:13	sjsqd	that is when I get stumped
14:13	danielpbarron	well don't do that
14:13	sjsqd	although I did manage to compile a few wallets on Ubuntu successfully
14:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00038453 = 7.1715 BTC [-]
14:14	sjsqd	danielpbarron:when I get the time I will probably get a harddrive, install a barebones Debian installation on different partitions for each altcoin
14:14	sjsqd	so they are completely separete
14:14	sjsqd	seperate
14:14	danielpbarron	thestringpuller, sure I wouldn't mind someone reading something that had already been written down; that's more like an audio book than a podcast
14:14	sjsqd	indeed, separate
14:14	danielpbarron	sjsqd, save yourself the trouble and don't install any altcoins
14:15	sjsqd	danielpbarron:then how am I going to walk around with my augmented vision paying for things in 20 years time if bitcoin isn't the ideal cryptocurrency?
14:15	danielpbarron	http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ So for the benefit of all the derps derping about "cryptocurrencies" : there is no such thing. There's Bitcoin and that's it, because there can only be one.
14:15	assbot	The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/17RjJtN )
14:15	lobbes	sjsqd: what others have said: save in bitcoin, spend in (local currency)
14:16	sjsqd	for now that is how I'm operating (especially given no one accepts bitcoin here except like 1 pizza restaurant)
14:16	sjsqd	but in the future if I can receive 100% of my pay via cryptocurrency I will
14:17	sjsqd	I personally have little interest in cash
14:17	danielpbarron	via bitcoin*
14:17	sjsqd	on the topic of altcoins
14:17	thestringpuller	lobbes: i wouldn't save in bicoin during a bubble
14:17	sjsqd	I do see that many of them have ended up as scams and so on
14:17	danielpbarron	on the topic of altcoins, they are all scams -- avoid them
14:17	sjsqd	but there are a few that have been ok so far
14:17	sjsqd	DNOTES is quite interesting
14:17	sjsqd	they've put together the first long term savings plan
14:18	sjsqd	I have no doubt it is manipulated via bots
14:18	danielpbarron	that doesn't make sense
14:18	sjsqd	but then again, what isn't nowadays?
14:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12838 @ 0.00037468 = 4.8101 BTC [-]
14:18	sjsqd	Well that is what the limitation (in my eyes) is of most altcoins and bitcoin itself
14:18	sjsqd	no communication and no marketing
14:18	sjsqd	unless you want to dig through 2000 page threads on bitcointalk
14:18	sjsqd	stay on IRC 24/7
14:19	sjsqd	or use reddit 24/7
14:19	danielpbarron	yes! stay on irc 24/7!
14:19	thestringpuller	sjsqd: they make logs for a reason...
14:19	danielpbarron	forget the forum -- forget reddit; those are distractions
14:19	sjsqd	thestringpuller:yes but most people outside of extreme enthusiasts are not going to look through logs
14:19	sjsqd	even then
14:19	lobbes	forget the forum -- forget reddit; those are distractions << yes
14:19	danielpbarron	so? screw them.
14:19	PeterL	focus on the log for this chan, yes, that is how you will learn
14:19	asciilifeform	sjsqd: what do you need the remaining people for ?
14:20	thestringpuller	sjsqd: this is akin to someone pretending to be involved in history and but didn't read any history books.
14:20	thestringpuller	sjsqd: this doesn't work.
14:20	danielpbarron	What did Noah do when nobody else would get on the Ark? He.. GOT ON THE ARK.
14:20	sjsqd	except a history book is just a summary of events in most cases
14:20	sjsqd	even if its provides sources, its a summary
14:20	jurov	sjsqd if someone takes an effort to do a marketing toward you, they're after your money or soul
14:20	jurov	get used to it
14:20	sjsqd	to find out what is happening with bitcoin or xyz altcoin it isn't important to read through thousands of pages
14:20	sjsqd	jurov:wouldn't surprise me
14:21	sjsqd	I did save some money a few years back in a bonds thing backed by the government
14:21	thestringpuller	sjsqd: you should probably read some huxely with the logs.
14:21	sjsqd	a decent whack of money
14:21	sjsqd	sat there for an entire year
14:21	sjsqd	and I got 50 USD in interest
14:21	sjsqd	not worth it at all
14:21	sjsqd	all my bank accounts get chewed out the ass with fees and such
14:21	PeterL	sjsqd: important stuff shows up on qntra.net if you don't want to wade through the logs
14:22	sjsqd	PeterL:yes I will be adding it to my reading list
14:22	danielpbarron	i cashed out some bonds that my grandma got me when i was born; did the math and realized it should have been worth many ounces of gold instead of a measly 1k or whatever it matured to
14:23	jurov	!up sjsqd
14:23	PeterL	that inflation will kill you on long-term investing
14:23	danielpbarron	best gift for a baby? golden pacifier or something
14:23	sjsqd	I'm not even that familiar with how traditional currency or banking works
14:24	PeterL	sjsqd, you should get in the wot too
14:24	sjsqd	but in terms of whether I trust a computer or a human more
14:24	sjsqd	I trust a computer
14:24	sjsqd	every time I have an issue with a bank it requires dealing with 20 humans
14:24	danielpbarron	unfortunately computers are made by humans..
14:24	sjsqd	and I'm pretty sure their jobs are going to disappear within a few years
14:24	sjsqd	If I want to use my debit card from another country here
14:24	sjsqd	I had to try 5 different ATM machines the other day
14:25	sjsqd	"DO NOT HONOR"
14:25	sjsqd	miraculously it works on a different machine though
14:25	danielpbarron	think of FIAT like illegal drugs and you'll have an easier time
14:25	sjsqd	not only that
14:25	sjsqd	I'm paying like 20 USD just to withdraw cash
14:25	thestringpuller	danielpbarron: can you elaborate?
14:25	sjsqd	so it *should* work unless the internet is down
14:26	sjsqd	I went on a work trip to lebanon once, tried to use my ATM card twice and it lagged out
14:26	sjsqd	of course I didn't get any cash
14:26	danielpbarron	if you want just a 20-bag, it costs a much higher premium
14:26	danielpbarron	than if you bought a whole ounce
14:26	sjsqd	but the bank took my money anyway (I got it back after filing forms etc)
14:27	sjsqd	I do get the hesitation towards altcoins
14:27	danielpbarron	you should better keep savings in bitcoin, and find local street dealers to sell you FIAT as needed
14:27	sjsqd	but I do think that at least 2-3 of them will shine above the rest
14:27	sjsqd	danielpbarron: there are only a few BTC sellers here so its economically unfeasible to use bitcoin like that yet
14:27	sjsqd	I should probably note that I only just moved back here anyway
14:27	sjsqd	so I'm not 'set up' just yet
14:28	danielpbarron	a few is all it takes to keep it competative, no?
14:28	danielpbarron	buy a months worth at a time
14:28	sjsqd	that and its a free market
14:28	danielpbarron	this ties into the "don't buy groceries with bitcoin" thing
14:28	sjsqd	danielpbarron:I wouldn't buy them just yet because cash still works just as well
14:28	danielpbarron	buy a months worth of FIAT with bitcoin, and use that to buy groceries
14:28	sjsqd	but potentially in 5 years time
14:28	sjsqd	if bitcoin or similar is stable enough\
14:28	sjsqd	I would use it 100%
14:29	danielpbarron	well you can't bring your cash across borders
14:29	thestringpuller	danielpbarron: i see what you mean now. re-up on fiat with your bitcoin.
14:29	sjsqd	exactly
14:29	thestringpuller	now is the best time to do it cause there is not a lot of volatility
14:29	sjsqd	and I got permanently banned from using paypal for life too
14:29	sjsqd	after several thousand USD worth of transactions and 0 complaints
14:30	sjsqd	I used one of those bitcoin exchanges recently
14:30	sjsqd	and added all my bank accounts (I have 3 in 3 different countries)
14:30	sjsqd	and thought "oh wow this is cool I can now manage all my money from one place sort of"
14:30	sjsqd	(keep in mind the bank accounts were verified via the usual 0.01 transaction shit)
14:30	sjsqd	then I get a message asking for a copy of my ID as well as a video interview
14:31	sjsqd	because I tried to buy $50 USD worth of bitcoin
14:31	danielpbarron	kinda the point of why bitcoin will eventually win
14:31	sjsqd	exactly
14:31	sjsqd	although windows isn't the absolute best solution for computer security
14:31	sjsqd	I run a software firewall, as well as malware bytes, an adblocker that blocks malicious sites
14:31	danielpbarron	it's not even a mediocre solution; it's not even a consideration
14:32	sjsqd	and keep my system 100% updated at all times
14:32	*	danielpbarron slaps sjsqd around a bit with a large update
14:32	sjsqd	and I also barely own any cryptocurrency
14:32	sjsqd	so at this point in time
14:32	sjsqd	running linux exclusively to keep my internet money safe is too inconvenient to be worth it (although I will be moving to a better system very soon)
14:33	danielpbarron	a lot of these things were discussed in here recently; you should definitely get to reading the logs
14:33	sjsqd	I would actually prefer running some form of cloud OS (provided it was encrypted) for a portion of my holdings
14:33	sjsqd	I like the idea of my phone being shot at by terrorists
14:33	danielpbarron	no no no bad
14:33	sjsqd	and just kinda shrugging
14:33	sjsqd	and walking into a phone store and purchasing a new phone
14:33	danielpbarron	you are really very stupid
14:33	sjsqd	logging in and getting access back in 3-5 minutes
14:33	danielpbarron	the only redeeming quality about you is that you ended up here somehow
14:34	sjsqd	danielpbarron:that would be for day to day usage
14:34	thestringpuller	damn I wish I could have bashed that
14:34	sjsqd	danielpbarron: haha, its actually been very many years since I spammed an IRC channel
14:35	danielpbarron	that is a luxury afforded to you because you are new
14:35	jurov	sjsqd you will never be safe if you treat technology as magic
14:35	danielpbarron	now your task is to read the log for at least 6 months
14:35	jurov	"just throw this spell to it"
14:35	ben_vulpes	<sjsqd> but is it correct to title it as the 'pirate' bitcoin foundation? << no.
14:35	sjsqd	ben_vulpes:noted. I had taken that title from what appears to be an unrelated bitcointalk thread.
14:36	ben_vulpes	<sjsqd> nubbins`: the goal of my articles is to try and ascertain how transparently the foundation currently operates << the goal of your articles is to apparently rack up pageviews.
14:36	ben_vulpes	you yourself may ascertain whatever you may ascertain.
14:36	sjsqd	I will definitely write about this bitcoin foundation in my articles at some point
14:36	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16019 @ 0.000375 = 6.0071 BTC [+] {2}
14:36	ben_vulpes	<nubbins`> think of them as the foundation and the phoundation, with the other guys being the ph << no, we're the fundation!
14:37	sjsqd	ben_vulpes:I'm not motivated by money, it is just nice to be able to write something and get at least a little appreciation for it
14:37	sjsqd	all I do is tweet the link to the article
14:37	ben_vulpes	look into qntra.net
14:37	sjsqd	and post it onto /bitcoin/ subreddit
14:37	jurov	sjsqd it depends whose appreciation you want
14:37	ben_vulpes	<sjsqd> its all calculated automatically as far as I'm aware << so how would you know if things are working as expected?
14:37	danielpbarron	yeah, prepare to be hated and banned
		↖
14:37	jurov	those stupider than you or those more intellinget than you?
14:38	sjsqd	I don't spam my article URLs or anything like that (I provided it here because it was relevant to show what I was writing)
14:38	sjsqd	I don't think anyone has to read my articles or consider my viewpoint, its just my way of writing about the foundation
14:38	ben_vulpes	<sjsqd> I understand the idea of bitcoin universes << what you don't seem to understand is that there are separate WoTs in action.
14:39	sjsqd	as there are many issues with the foundation (andresen edition) I was invited to post on the let's talk bitcoin website
14:39	sjsqd	so that is purely the reason I ended up writing
14:39	lobbes	<sjsqd> I would actually prefer running some form of cloud OS (provided it was encrypted) for a portion of my holdings << Oh god no
14:39	sjsqd	for this series of articles I will probably keep them on let's talk bitcoin, but for future articles or if I come up with anything else to write at the same time I might consider qntra.net
14:40	danielpbarron	you don't consider qntra; qntra considers you.
14:40	sjsqd	danielpbarron:then I would do my best to be considered.
14:40	sjsqd	Please understand that I've spent many years of my life writing about issues such as internet censorship and the like
14:40	sjsqd	so when a platform exists that can at least reward you a little
14:41	sjsqd	you may not be that cynical
14:41	mats	nobody cares
14:41	sjsqd	(:
14:41	mats	kill yourself
14:41	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00037468 = 3.6719 BTC [-]
14:42	ben_vulpes	!down sjsqd
14:42	PeterL	mats: kill yourself << a bit harsh?
14:43	pete_dushenski	now that it's a bit quieter in here: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/
		↖
14:43	assbot	Kerckhoffs’ history and principles of military cryptography, translated and adnotated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/17RoW4G )
14:43	pete_dushenski	^new record for longest article
14:44	pete_dushenski	i hadn't quite appreciated the size of the undertaking when i started
14:44	pete_dushenski	good practise in any event
14:45	PeterL	pete_dushenski: good practise in any event << darn canadian spelling looks odd
14:45	pete_dushenski	PeterL: lol 'tis british spelling, good sir
14:46	BingoBoingo	!up sjsqd
14:46	BingoBoingo	sjsqd: Read the logs a while and come back later
14:47	BingoBoingo	sjsqd: Try to understand why the second (dot)foundation was discovered necessary
14:48	sjsqd	Yes I will. I can already see part of the reasoning when it comes to transparency.
14:49	BingoBoingo	sjsqd: Just don't burn too much time on conversation here before you get to understanding a large part of the *why* the (dot)foundation does things as peculiarly as they do. A good amount of history there.
14:49	pete_dushenski	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041083 << impressive. brings to mind 'spruce goose'
14:49	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 06:18:52; decimation: asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position
14:50	sjsqd	BingoBoingo:sure.
14:51	sjsqd	afk.
14:51	pete_dushenski	http://www.diseno-art.com/images_7/hughes-h-4-spruce-goose-lar.jpg << nearly twice the length of 737-800, all wood
14:51	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BIrQVw )
14:52	ben_vulpes	sjsqd: also, don't poison the well against yourself.
14:53	BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/wiretapped/status/573172370141253632
14:53	assbot	I just realized /hashtag/golang?src=hash's "go get" falls back to HTTP when HTTPS fails ☹ /hashtag/RussianRouletteSoftwareDistribution?src=hash /hashtag/CurlPipeSudoBash?src=hash /hashtag/yolo?src=hash /E_I_T
		↖
14:54	PeterL	other people realizing the dangers of dependencies?
14:54	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Well what follows is "#PSA: using @golang's "go get" on conference wifi is equivalent to running a passwordless telnet server on your laptop. srs shame on go devs"
14:56	PeterL	does Eulora have an official website?
		↖
14:56	thestringpuller	PeterL: no.
14:57	thestringpuller	someone maintains eulorum.org
14:57	PeterL	aha, thanks
14:57	BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Kid's just been hit with the discovery he's got a year of learning and unlearning to get to zero. Just maybe this one gets there.
14:59	thestringpuller	BingoBoingo: not everyone can make the journey tho.
15:00	BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: Kid's not hopeless though. He was luck enough to make it in the place where he could ask questions and people were polite enough to point him where to start the reading. Rest is on him.
15:01	thestringpuller	BingoBoingo: optimistic BingoBoingo is best BingoBoingo
15:01	asciilifeform	golang << ahahaha.
15:01	asciilifeform	how many of these do we need before we can shoot it in the head and forget ?
15:01	PeterL	asciilifeform: you don't like golang?
15:02	asciilifeform	PeterL: guess.
15:02	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: what is rule #1 of the undead?
15:03	asciilifeform	PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2015#979697 << see old thread
15:03	assbot	Logged on 16-01-2015 23:44:58; *: asciilifeform was simply floored with mindfuck that anyone would choose google's turdlang for a piece of critical infrastructure, and could not resist ringing the bell
15:03	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: 'scatter the pieces'
15:07	*	jurov thought of rule 34
15:07	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: so brought up ADA at work, and coworker started having Vietnam-esque flashbacks from school. Is this normal behavior?
15:08	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: absolutely
15:08	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: try 'scheme' on him
15:08	asciilifeform	never fails to bring back 'vietnam'
15:08	PeterL	and this is what you want people to use?
15:08	thestringpuller	this compels me to learn the language more.
15:09	asciilifeform	PeterL: life-critical embedded systems must be written in a typesafe, bound-safe standardized language with hard-real time run (that means no garbage collection) and static memory alloc.
15:09	asciilifeform	PeterL: there is precisely one such language in existence.
15:09	BingoBoingo	!up qntranet
15:09	BingoBoingo	Hello visitor
15:10	asciilifeform	PeterL: it's ugly as sin, and originally usg-promulgated, but that doesn't change the facts.
15:10	PeterL	could we make a prettier version?
15:10	asciilifeform	PeterL: sure, go make. we'll check again in 50 yrs.
15:10	PeterL	ok, I'll get right on that
15:11	asciilifeform	PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts
		↖
15:11	PeterL	what part do you find ugly?
15:11	asciilifeform	'it's not sexy. whaddayamean i have to specify thing'
15:11	BingoBoingo	!b 7
15:11	assbot	Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1W3HXTC.txt )
15:11	asciilifeform	PeterL: the pascal syntax mostly
15:11	asciilifeform	but even it contributes to the actual purpose of the thing.
15:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00037468 = 1.48 BTC [-]
15:12	asciilifeform	which is safety and nonambiguity at any cost.
15:12	PeterL	in my initial introduction to ada, it seems verbose, with extra words hanging around where a symbol could work just fine
15:12	asciilifeform	that's just about everybody's first impression
15:12	asciilifeform	then you actually read a book and try to think of which 'verbosity' could be cut
15:13	asciilifeform	and find that you are actually snipping off a living organ and not dead weight.
15:13	asciilifeform	there is even a 'rationale' document (also book) ready to argue with you
		↖
15:13	jurov	http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs/ << some samples
15:13	assbot	Ada Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIwYJr )
15:13	asciilifeform	it's numbered like a bible - for folks to quote chapter & verse.
15:13	PeterL	well, it has the same named closing tags like you complain about in html (begin thing ... end thing)
15:14	asciilifeform	PeterL: has many things that feel 'heavy'
15:14	asciilifeform	but the result adds up to the fact that there will never, ever be an 'underhanded ada contest'
15:14	PeterL	programs should be boringly obvious what they are doing?
15:15	asciilifeform	precisely.
15:15	kakobrekla	http://dangerousminds.net/comments/bank_of_canada_urges_star_trek_fans_to_stop_spocking_their_fivers
15:15	assbot	Bank of Canada urges ‘Star Trek’ fans to stop ‘Spocking’ their fivers | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIxgjm )
15:16	pete_dushenski	lmao!
15:18	pete_dushenski	spocking "may interfere with the security features and reduces its lifespan."
15:18	pete_dushenski	the lifespan of the polymer bills is already mediocre
15:19	pete_dushenski	not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold
15:19	pete_dushenski	also, melt on car dash
15:19	pete_dushenski	not sure why cash would be on car dash, but hey
15:20	jurov	bundle ready for tickets
15:20	PeterL	pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold << the dangers of living in a frozen wasteland
15:21	pete_dushenski	!up airgapped
15:21	pete_dushenski	PeterL: to say nothing of the bears !
15:21	lobbes	So one defines their own data types in ADA? I'm not sure why I find that interesting
15:22	pete_dushenski	http://dangerousminds.net/comments/vintage_purses_with_bold_feminist_slogans << what do you even say to a girl who sports a purse that says 'choice' or 'my body my business' ?
15:22	assbot	Vintage purses with bold feminist slogans | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1M7KgC5 )
15:24	danielpbarron	pete_dushenski, "how much do you charge?"
15:26	pete_dushenski	this could be a fun caption contest
15:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00037468 = 3.7468 BTC [-]
15:26	pete_dushenski	ima header. cheers!
		~ 20 minutes ~
15:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00037468 = 2.7726 BTC [-]
		~ 18 minutes ~
16:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00037468 = 1.6299 BTC [-]
16:06	mats	dow down 100 points huhu
16:11	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00037644 = 4.4043 BTC [+]
16:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00037644 = 1.4869 BTC [+]
16:15	bitstein	This is pretty lulzy: https://github.com/jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx
		↖
16:15	assbot	jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FaSe9C )
		~ 35 minutes ~
16:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.0003725 = 6.8168 BTC [-]
		~ 33 minutes ~
17:25	BingoBoingo	http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150304092744
17:25	assbot	LibreSSL 2.1.4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1zL8JVk )
17:31	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00037051 = 8.3365 BTC [-]
17:42	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00037281 = 2.2741 BTC [+] {2}
17:42	mircea_popescu	cazalla i had not no
17:44	mircea_popescu	Dear Customer,
17:44	mircea_popescu	We detected irregular card activity on your American Express Check Card on 4 March,
17:44	mircea_popescu	2015. As the Primary Contact, you must verify your credit card activity before you can
17:44	mircea_popescu	continue using your card, and upon verification, we will remove any restrictions
17:44	mircea_popescu	placed on your card.
17:45	mircea_popescu	dude, the fucking notion that this shit sounds credible.
17:47	mircea_popescu	unrelatedly,
17:47	mircea_popescu	Theodore Sturgeon, respected creative and prolific science fiction author, shed the following offhand remark which instantly codified as Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is shit." One might visit a university library and walk through Women's Studies or hyphenated-American literature areas and wonder where Sturgeon's 10% is cloistered. Why pay parking fees? The 90% will come knocking at your door, then break it down d
17:47	mircea_popescu	emanding entry.
17:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11552 @ 0.00037467 = 4.3282 BTC [+] {2}
17:50	asciilifeform	sumbody's been reading al
17:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00037212 = 7.2191 BTC [-] {2}
17:51	asciilifeform	and mircea_popescu appears to get exactly the same spam as my spam-magnet, turd for turd
17:52	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform im sure it's all the same. but the point being... this works ?
17:52	mircea_popescu	why. how.
17:52	asciilifeform	cargo cult
17:52	asciilifeform	quite likely it never once worked.
17:52	asciilifeform	or, to the spamz0r's great misfortune - exactly once.
17:52	asciilifeform	resulting in lifetime cargoaddiction
17:53	mircea_popescu	heh
17:53	mircea_popescu	sadly i don't have credit cards, as i don't subscribe to open liability deals. but i wonder what the original texts say
17:53	mircea_popescu	i imagine this must be cribbed off one
17:54	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: i don't have credit cards << do you deal with credit at all (i.e. loc)?
17:55	mircea_popescu	sure.
17:55	thestringpuller	random point: do you think bitcoin will ever be ready for credit?
17:55	thestringpuller	given people playing banker in 2012
17:55	asciilifeform	iirc wot folks have borrowed from one another before
17:56	thestringpuller	ah I guess the liquidity loan from F.MPIF -> S.WOL is similar
17:56	thestringpuller	but that was interest free loan no?
17:56	asciilifeform	(though it is potentially - and thus, in fact is - an infinite-liability deal; how can you guarantee that you will find the coin to repay)
17:57	thestringpuller	^- exactly
17:57	asciilifeform	and what kind of collateral could possibly suffice for btc
17:57	thestringpuller	^- really nothing. definitely not fiat
17:57	asciilifeform	(let's say tomorrow's 'day x' and 1 btc > your organs)
17:57	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: repay with your life? (not in sense of deadmen don't pay, but contractual servitude)
17:57	asciilifeform	so borrowing btc, as shown above, is an uncapped liability
17:58	asciilifeform	as is, conversely, lending
17:58	asciilifeform	(you lose 1btc because poor schmuck couldn't come up the the ten sets of organs, only one, and you lost most of what you lent him)
17:59	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: what somebody's worth as a slave is still a finite sum, that isn't especially difficult to come up with (ask the romans)
17:59	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: then in that case entire meatspace family is in servitude? wasn't this a thing in history? Can't repay debt so X generation of people are slaves?
17:59	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller these things aren't related. bitcoin has been fine for credit for years. idiots aren't or ever will be ready for life.
17:59	mircea_popescu	<thestringpuller> but that was interest free loan no? << no.
18:00	asciilifeform	^ if above reasoning is flawed, i'd like to learn how
18:00	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform by having bitcoin revenue, of course.
18:00	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: problem is that most sources of bitcoin revenue are made of flesh and likely to suffer damage on hypothetical 'day x'
18:00	mircea_popescu	this is not true.
18:00	asciilifeform	say, you are in the habit of selling $gizmos for btc
18:00	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: but what if your revenue stream is no longer a stream but a trickle like man with swollen protrate trying to pee?
18:00	mircea_popescu	imaginary sources of bitcoin, pretend "bitcoin businesses" like coinbase or w/e suffer from the problem ytou describe
18:01	mircea_popescu	actual bitcoin companies, such as for instance listed on mpex, generally don't have the problem.
18:01	asciilifeform	btc heats up, begins to climb, revenue drops..
18:01	mircea_popescu	this widely consensusified notion has no met any sort of practical validation so far.
18:01	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: mpex, as i understand, consists of ultra-long-haul folks
18:01	mircea_popescu	bitbet largest revenue to date is not when btc was 3 bux
18:01	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: i would say this is true for the zero asset corporations. the non-zero asset corporations seem to be holdling their own, but too early to tell.
18:03	mircea_popescu	anywya, it was a point long discussed (among the financial minds) that the nature of btc makes distinction of loans and equity difficult. this was principally centered around the mpoe bonds back when those ran.
18:03	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: is your explanation essentially that exchange value of btc (in the secular world at large, not speaking of usd in particular) and the btc income of a well-organized business are tightly coupled and the 'rope never breaks' ?
18:03	mircea_popescu	buncha threads from 2011/2012 prolly very informative for this topic
18:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00037051 = 2.149 BTC [-]
18:03	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the explanation is that "exchange value of btc" is a broadly meaningless notion, and only vaguely useful as a temporary crutch.
18:04	mircea_popescu	there is no such thing as the "exchange value of money". money is the one thing without an exchange value, being the exchange value of all things.
18:04	asciilifeform	defined strictly for the purpose of this line of inquiry as 'that which might cause btc sphincters to tighten and less to be spent tomorrow'
18:05	mircea_popescu	consider the bank loans you money for a mortgage, and tomorrow houses go for 2 dollars each.
18:05	mircea_popescu	this sort of counterfactual is a tad nonsensical.
18:05	mircea_popescu	but that aside : the terms of the loan specify the recourse, and that's that.
18:05	asciilifeform	'asteroid falls, everyone died'
18:06	mircea_popescu	(which is why i won't take a mortgage deal that has recourse past the item bought, nor would any sane businessman. yet usian idiot consumers regularly do, because hey. they've come to expectorate.)
18:06	asciilifeform	but mircea_popescu is right re: earlier observation that the mega-bubble didn't seem to kill anyone
18:07	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: afaik 100% of mortgage deals in usa do
18:07	mircea_popescu	nope.
18:07	mircea_popescu	only chump ones.
18:07	asciilifeform	that is, if you default they take money+house
18:07	mircea_popescu	you can write whatever contracts you wish.
18:07	asciilifeform	and the money consists of what 'is worth now' according to magic arse rng
18:08	mircea_popescu	the trick is to not write that many donations while alive
18:08	asciilifeform	there are non-chumpatronic mortgages?
18:08	mircea_popescu	of course.
18:08	asciilifeform	how does that even work
18:08	mircea_popescu	limited recourse, or no recourse deals.
18:08	asciilifeform	no recourse ?
18:09	mircea_popescu	the former are mortgages proper (if the payer goes bust you get the item and that is all) , the latter are commercial paper (if the payer goes bust you suck it).
18:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15694 @ 0.00037051 = 5.8148 BTC [-]
18:10	asciilifeform	how can it work in the latter case, payer stops paying and keeps the goods ?
18:10	mircea_popescu	no recourse real estate deals are in the vast majority of the time attempts by some crown or other to hike the land values.
18:10	asciilifeform	or - his creditors
18:10	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: you've said GNAT is bad, you would not have it with a GNU or in a zoo?
18:10	mircea_popescu	like, give a million no recourse loan to the nude girlies show to produce itself on your new fairgrounds
18:10	thestringpuller	What ada compiler should I learn on?
18:10	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: gnat's the only game in town for ada
18:10	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform payer can't keep going and stop paying.
18:10	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: gnat
18:11	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: how to get it on your system is a puzzler that you would have to resolve
18:11	thestringpuller	nah already done
18:12	asciilifeform	(will point out, for the record, that there are other adas, not descended from gnat - but i will never see them so long as i live, and quite likely neither will you)
18:12	mircea_popescu	;;bc,stats
18:12	thestringpuller	lol gtk-ada
18:12	gribble	Current Blocks: 346203 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 548 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47829064524.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 2.45197
18:12	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: for folks who need graphical whatevery
18:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00037755 = 2.6995 BTC [+]
18:13	*	thestringpuller imagines asciilifeform reading graphs as their tabular representation and constructing image in mind
18:14	thestringpuller	what was that thing you showed us a while back...ratpoison? Some OS
18:14	hanbot	hey asciilifeform! i'm putting a gentoo box together for playing eulora, i want it nice and secure, have zilcho gentoo experience. how wouldja advise me?
18:15	thestringpuller	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratpoison << ah found it
18:15	asciilifeform	hanbot: if it's a reasonably recent gentoo with reasonably recent contents, there is no escape but to read the manual.
18:16	asciilifeform	hanbot: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64 << 'installation' << assuming you're on an x86 system
18:16	assbot	Handbook:AMD64 - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fbigt9 )
18:17	hanbot	asciilifeform thanks, will dig in.
18:25	mike_c	hanbot: if you install gentoo and eulora from scratch it would be cool to have a step-by-step for http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora#Gentoo
18:25	assbot	Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3E4Yd )
18:28	hanbot	mike_c noted!
18:36	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00037755 = 5.399 BTC [+]
18:39	gabriel_laddel	http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/egggun.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/rit.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/pringle.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/blood.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/fat.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/olestra.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/petit.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/garden.htm
18:39	assbot	ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HABT )
18:39	assbot	INTELLIGENT DYE SIGN ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HBWm )
18:39	assbot	THE FREE SAMPLE ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDNY )
18:39	assbot	ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDO4 )
18:39	assbot	THE FAT IS IN THE FIRE ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HCcX )
18:39	assbot	IT'S NOT JUST FOR LUNCH ANY MORE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDOc )
18:39	assbot	Petitjean's Quantitative Chirality ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HE4D )
18:39	assbot	ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HE4L )
18:40	gabriel_laddel	^ All Al articles absent from the homepage.
18:40	gabriel_laddel	(that can be found in the first 10 pages of google results)
18:41	gabriel_laddel	(that are not preliminary drafts of PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY)
18:44	gabriel_laddel	oh, and these: https://www.fictionpress.com/u/427609/Uncle-Al
18:44	assbot	Uncle Al | FictionPress ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbnmFM )
18:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9629 @ 0.00037111 = 3.5734 BTC [-]
19:04	mircea_popescu	ding
19:04	mircea_popescu	ha!
19:14	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041299 o.O
19:14	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 11:11:30; fluffypony: "I think FriedCat is not a real name. Does anyone know about FriedCat's real identity ?"
19:15	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041297 sad that it had to turn into http://trilema.com/2013/the-analysis-of-a-failure-asicminer/
19:15	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 11:11:21; fluffypony: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=974058.msg10633083#msg10633083
19:15	assbot	The analysis of a failure : Asicminer pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJ9zHy )
19:15	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041314 << nice c man!
19:15	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 12:30:34; cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/
19:16	mircea_popescu	"Garza deliberately mislead" << misled.
19:18	cazalla	mircea_popescu, fixed
19:18	mircea_popescu	so nice to see qntra redo the bitbet history with this gaw scam
19:18	mircea_popescu	back in 2012 all the rage were "bfl miners"
19:21	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041360 << lawl!
19:21	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 13:57:22; mod6: i've never seen this before.
19:21	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041381 << sounds legit.
19:21	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 14:04:18; jurov: so i propose to go on to 0.5.3.2 .. release early, release often
19:23	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041397 <<< these homos...
19:23	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 14:19:27; jurov: i am just not placing any expectations to any piece of software anymore
19:25	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041403 << i guess i lose for being vague!
19:25	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 14:26:17; Pierre_Rochard: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041323 < thanks for the tip, I’ll set up a euro bank account when I’m in france this summer
19:26	Pierre_Rochard	mircea_popescu: you lose due to recency bias! I’ll extend the thanks to you regardless haha
19:26	mircea_popescu	lol
19:29	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041414 << here's the long story : traditionally, "int" means a word, and word means a register size, which is machine dependent (was 8 bit, then 16, then 32 and now is 64). because historically the register was inconvenient for human use, the notion of "long int" was born, as a dword (two words) or qword (four). because historically the register was inconvenient for memor
19:29	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 14:34:51; PeterL: why in c is a long int the same size as int?
19:29	mircea_popescu	y usage, the notion of short int was created, sometimes as small as a byte (8 bits).
19:30	mircea_popescu	both of these are becoming obsolete as ram is cheap and 64 bits plentiful. so in the future, int will just mean "integer number" and that's that,
19:37	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041474 hehehehehe
19:37	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 18:24:10; sjsqd: do you know if anyone from the previous foundation is aware of it?
19:37	mircea_popescu	yeah, inasmuch as gavin tiptoes around my lunch hour, i would propose they're painfully aware of it, yes.
19:38	mircea_popescu	dude it's so great to come to logs after a nice meal and find all sorts of gems like these.
19:39	mircea_popescu	i vote #b-a best afternoon show in town.
19:40	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041509 << ironically enough, the client the OTHERS work on is different from bitcoin core.
19:40	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 18:29:13; sjsqd: but I assume the client you work on is different to bitcoin core?
19:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.042 = 1.68 BTC [+] {3}
19:53	scoopbot	New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/socialism-saved-for-later-lolz/
19:54	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 166 @ 0.012 = 1.992 BTC [+]
20:00	BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats
20:00	gribble	Current Blocks: 346213 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 538 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47691297024.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 2.15687
20:01	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041515 << technically foundation wasn't born yet. so no, it's better custodianship of the bitcoin codebase than the fake foundation has been displaying.
20:01	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 18:29:42; asciilifeform: sjsqd: starting point was phoundation's release circa 2012
20:01	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 202 @ 0.012 = 2.424 BTC [+] {2}
20:02	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041549 << omfg the insanities
20:02	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 18:38:01; sjsqd: you basically earn based upon your proportion of page views
20:05	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041571 << https://blockchain.info/address/16crkmdoaK6Tq8NP3FVK7Uxq5Dwdicb3c3
20:05	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 18:41:39; sjsqd: even with hundreds of thousands of page views I only ever made about 70 USD over 2-3 years
20:05	assbot	Bitcoin Address 16crkmdoaK6Tq8NP3FVK7Uxq5Dwdicb3c3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWOPLI )
20:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00037681 = 4.258 BTC [+]
20:11	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: what is that trilema address?
20:12	mircea_popescu	yea
20:19	BingoBoingo	!up ryan-c
20:28	ben_vulpes	ryan-c: do i know you?
20:29	ryan-c	ben_vulpes: I don't think so. I'm not Ryan X Charles.
20:30	BingoBoingo	That's always good to hear. The world needs less javascript.
20:30	ryan-c	lol
20:30	ben_vulpes	nah, another ryan c.
20:30	ryan-c	when all you have is a hammer...
20:31	ryan-c	ben_vulpes: https://keybase.io/ryanc is me
20:31	assbot	Ryan Castellucci (ryanc) | Keybase ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWTBcg )
20:31	BingoBoingo	You just end up poorly reimplementing Common Lisp or Ada
20:31	mircea_popescu	how many ryan-c are there ? :D
20:32	ryan-c	mircea_popescu: probably at least 50,000 in the US
20:32	mircea_popescu	thinking about it... yeah.
20:32	BingoBoingo	ryan-c: You know keyservers exist in a much more user friendly form than that abomination make by the okcupid people
20:33	ryan-c	BingoBoingo: My gpg keys are in pgp.mit.edu and sks-keyservers as well.
20:33	BingoBoingo	Ah
20:37	ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i curious about the no-recourse mortgages as well. lender returns payment stream, keeps asset?
20:38	mircea_popescu	lender returns nothing at all.
20:40	ben_vulpes	so borrower defaults, lender gets house and payments.
20:40	ben_vulpes	oop! limited recourse i mean.
20:40	mircea_popescu	let's work a model. suppose i own 85`000 square footage of marble flooring, used for running a harem. suppose i come to the conclusion my harem doesn't attract good / numerous enough cuntage. suppose i decide this is because there's no belly dancing happening. suppose i go to a belly dancer in city and say, listen, i'll loan you 10k golden pistoons if you start a belly dancing school on my marlbe acreage.
20:41	mircea_popescu	this is the sort of thing. the professional has no interest in leaving their current place just because i want to relocate them, and the situation isn't feudal, where i just order them moved.
20:41	mircea_popescu	now, if the school goes well and makes money im getting my pistoons back.
20:41	mircea_popescu	if not, fuck me and my stupid "palace" with no running water up on a mountain in the desert.
20:41	mircea_popescu	belly dancer expert walks and i'm more than welcome to repay myself.
20:42	ben_vulpes	i think i get it.
20:43	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00038032 = 4.9822 BTC [+] {2}
20:44	mircea_popescu	the idea being that contracts (of the old sort) are flexible and useful, just as long as the chumps grok that there is no such thing as "a standard contract".
20:47	mircea_popescu	and as to limited recourse, it can be limited whatever way. generally it is, "lend me this money to buy this house, i pay you so and so, and if i don't you keep the house."
20:48	mircea_popescu	which is the very definition of mortgage (a topic of not little historical interest, because it's one of the rare cases where we can observe biological evolution at work in what's supposed to be fleshless abstractions)
20:48	mircea_popescu	there's a lot of similarity between how prokaryotes ended up with mitochondria and how commerce ended up with the mortgage.
20:50	BingoBoingo	!up ryan-c
20:56	BingoBoingo	!up felipelalli
21:07	felipelalli	good night BingoBoingo!
21:07	BingoBoingo	later
21:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 46 @ 0.04499913 = 2.07 BTC [+] {2}
21:14	mike_c	the first trade after that debacle is a buy?
21:24	mircea_popescu	!up dragosb
21:24	felipelalli	About coinbr.com, what happens if my account stay negative "forever"? I will be in debt or it shall be forgiven?
21:26	dragosb	Hello Mircea ! I read a article on your blog about How to be a good poker player, and I was pondering do you play on-line or live?
21:26	scoopbot	New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/aspiring-bitcoin-journalist-arrested-for-recruiting-for-isis/
21:26	mircea_popescu	dragosb i play very little these days. i mostly played live, and mostly pre-consumer internet.
21:27	mircea_popescu	incidentally, on that score : as mike_c correctly pointed out a week or so ago, headsup is actually a broken game now, courtesy of teh damned computers.
21:29	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: long story : traditionally, "int" means a word... << obtain, from purely historical interest, if you don't already own it, k&r 1st ed. good tour of the weirdo word (and byte!) sizes on the archs of the day. predecessor 'B' was 'typeless' (all things are machine-word width) and this was not uncommon then
21:30	mircea_popescu	indeed.
21:30	mircea_popescu	kinda how a mpcomputer would work , for that matter.
21:30	mircea_popescu	wtf type bs.
21:30	mircea_popescu	just say how many lengths of chord you want to hang yourself with.
21:30	*	asciilifeform goes further than mircea_popescu, dispenses with 'machine word' concept. want bits, say how many.
21:30	asciilifeform	we know how to build serial ALUs.
21:31	mircea_popescu	heh
21:31	mircea_popescu	yeah. that's further than i'd go.
21:31	mircea_popescu	(nttawwi)
21:32		Bet placed: 5.03285372 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 22(Y):78(N) by coin, 21(Y):79(N) by weight. Total bet: 66.0688022 BTC. Current weight: 73,586.
21:33	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5480 @ 0.00038199 = 2.0933 BTC [+] {2}
21:34	asciilifeform	http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/chist.html << for classicists/aficionados only
21:34	assbot	Chistory ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlJcub )
21:35	mircea_popescu	o hey dmr
21:35	asciilifeform	of course, who else
21:36	*	asciilifeform isn't yet aware of any secondary/tertiary derpologists having suckerfished on to this subject - but who knows
21:38	asciilifeform	http://www.e-reading.link/bookreader.php/138815/Expert_C_Programming:_Deep_C_Secrets.pdf << l33t w4r3z. have this in dead tree, it's one of the most riotously entertaining books on any kind of programming whatsoever, imho
21:38	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GlJDV8 )
21:38	thestringpuller	RIP dmr, mah nigga.
21:38	asciilifeform	i heartily recomment 'deep c' even to folks who despise c and hardly program at all in anything
21:39	thestringpuller	ada isn't so bad. dunno why people are complaining...
21:40	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: folks are used to their sawed-off shotguns, balk at slightly heavier, longer 'thompson'
21:40	BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: You only say that becasue you are going through practice where Ruby forces still more bondage and discipline upon you
21:40	*	BingoBoingo kinda wants Mosin, has never lost to itself
21:41	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: phun phact: to ru folks, 'sawed-off' - 'обрез' - means precisely a cut-off mosin
21:41	asciilifeform	rather than shotgun
21:41	BingoBoingo	lol
21:41	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: http://www.nakop.ru/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=160390 << it
21:41	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GlK1TK )
21:42	BingoBoingo	Mosin also at $150/piece also solves http://trilema.com/2015/strategy-for-the-antisocial-struggle/ for body/vehicle armor
21:42	assbot	Strategy for the antisocial struggle. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlK5Tn )
21:42	asciilifeform	http://www.admemo.ru/arms-mosin-rifle/mosin-obrez.jpg << also it
21:42	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GlKbdI )
21:42	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: What of the wrist of who fires that
21:43	asciilifeform	what of the ears
21:44	BingoBoingo	Ears are guarenteed to fail on a long enough timeline, visit nursing home if you have pretenses otherwise.
21:44	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: incidentally, mosin is for some reason extremely common in usa
21:44	asciilifeform	like, 100 usd
21:44	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Isn't it beautiful?
21:44	asciilifeform	comes, iirc, in a gigantic block of 'cosmoline' but otherwise virginal
21:44	asciilifeform	complete with trihedral bayonet
21:44	BingoBoingo	The best deer rifle in history is the cheapest.
21:45	asciilifeform	you'll be using ancient ru corrosive primers though.
21:45	asciilifeform	and no chrome
21:45	asciilifeform	hope you like scrubbing
21:45	BingoBoingo	Bolt action so cleaning... More popular "deer" rifle is sks, still corrosive primers, much less range, still moar cleaning
21:46	asciilifeform	'sks' iirc takes modern (7,62x39) rounds
21:46	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo not so sure it does, no.
21:46	mircea_popescu	i doubt mosin pierces kevlar.
21:47	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Yes sks, you also get diminished charge behind bullet for no less cleaning
21:47	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: full-sized rifle cartridge, one of the 'hottest' still made (7,62x54r)
21:47	mircea_popescu	even so.
21:47	asciilifeform	(mosin, that is)
21:47	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Equivalent to US .30-06 caliber. Beats any man wearable armour
21:47	mircea_popescu	is it ?
21:47	BingoBoingo	yes
21:47	asciilifeform	bad formulation
21:47	*	mircea_popescu defers.
21:48	asciilifeform	all depends on range, angle of impact
21:48	asciilifeform	basics here
21:48	mircea_popescu	in any case im notsure you'd want a plain bolt action for that purpose.
21:48	mircea_popescu	more like a "tough as nails, swiss made SKS". like the mac10 maybe.
21:48	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well, not for the whole club, but if you have people designated to hit marks at a distance...
21:48	mircea_popescu	...then they' dwant a modern sniper rifle.
21:49	*	mircea_popescu has never actually seen a mosin used in practice. ever. anywhere.
21:49	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Mac10's caliber is recognized now as sub pistol, .380 ACP isn't beating a single sheet of kevlar
21:49	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: largely a third-world (afghanistan, africa) item currently, afaik
21:50	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo it's all in the filling. they make dup double strength cartridges now.
21:50	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: moder sniper rifle has bullets of similar power to mosin, simply smaller case
21:50	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo nah, much better barrel. accuracy is a thing.
21:50	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Sure, but at the point barrels make a difference operator makes a far greater difference
21:51	mircea_popescu	by the time you're shooting policemen you're not going to save on the rifle. those suckers cost thje enemy like 1.5-3 mn a pop.
21:51	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: there's a beautiful treatise, 'art of the sniper' ('искусство снайпера') - ru of course - highly recommended if aficionado or even mild interest in the history. describes precisely what modern designers changed
21:51	asciilifeform	(by one potapov)
21:52	mircea_popescu	you know i suspect potapov is like the ru mil pythagoras.
21:52	mircea_popescu	everything seems to be written by one potapov
21:52	asciilifeform	yer thinking bourbaki mebbe
21:52	BingoBoingo	USia claimed its own for a bt in the Hathcock guy
21:52	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform same idea.
21:52	asciilifeform	aha
21:53	BingoBoingo	Hathcock's narrative though included using light machine guns as bolt action rifle because US lacked adequate sniper rifle for 'Nam
21:53	asciilifeform	americans took the whole 'golden sniper toilet' thing almost to logical conclusion, with microprocessorized wind&elevation calculators, bullets turned on lathes (!), etc
21:54	asciilifeform	ru school of thought took, unsurprisingly, opposite tack
21:54	asciilifeform	(simple weapons, but highly skilled professionals)
21:55	*	asciilifeform is an armchair general and recommends that aficionados seek out the primary sources.
21:56	BingoBoingo	USia's hotness this past decade has been taking M-14's and converting to "designated marksmen rifles"
21:56	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00038309 = 3.4287 BTC [+]
21:56	BingoBoingo	M-14's original service life of course having been... lacking
21:56	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: correct if i've my dod-speak mixed up, but 'designated marksman' is not a sniper - he engages only within visual contact distance
21:57	asciilifeform	(naked eye)
21:57	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Yes. His range extends to visual past what assualt rifle can not reliably hit fatally, but still visual
21:57	asciilifeform	the term, iirc, refers to the one man in a platoon who was actually taught any marksmanship and is expected to aim
21:57	asciilifeform	the rest 'hosedown'
21:57	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Russian equivalent for role is Dragunov
21:58	BingoBoingo	tool, not person
21:58	asciilifeform	by some accounts, ^ has a barrel resource of 800 (!) rounds
21:59	asciilifeform	enlarged ak-like thing that takes mosin rounds
21:59	BingoBoingo	Basic requirements for such tool are full power rifle round and semi auto action
21:59	BingoBoingo	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_Sniper_Rifle
21:59	assbot	Dragunov sniper rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlMcXo )
22:01	BingoBoingo	In contemporary USian deployments designated marksmen carries M-14 with a plastic stock and has specialization like the machine gunner
22:05	BingoBoingo	Mosin's great virtue for USian civilian is that it costs roughly 1/10th anything equivalent from domestic manufacterer
22:07	asciilifeform	does any u.s. arms co. even offer anything without plastic, aluminum, or worse ?
22:07	asciilifeform	as in, anywhere in the thing
22:07	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Sure for 4 digit numer of USD
22:07	asciilifeform	probably 5
22:08	asciilifeform	(iirc all the m-whatever things are Al but for the barrel)
22:08	BingoBoingo	Nah, 5 exists, 4 though is the sweet spot.
22:12	mircea_popescu	what's wrong with al.
22:12	mircea_popescu	properly alloyed it does beat steel.
22:12	asciilifeform	iirc we had the 'can you club with it' thread
22:14	BingoBoingo	;;google M1A
22:14	gribble	M1A™ Tactical Rifle | Top Semi Automatic Firearms | Buy M1A: <http://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series/>; M1A rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1A_rifle>; M1A for Sale - Buy Springfield M1A Rifle Online at GunBroker.com: <http://www.gunbroker.com/M1A/Browse.aspx?Keywords=M1A>
22:15	BingoBoingo	^ civilian version of M-14 conversion
22:17	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 400 @ 0.0045519 = 1.8208 BTC [+] {2}
22:17	*	asciilifeform struggles to recall the traditional term for the kind of technowankery where folks buy 'pro' tools without any place to use or relevant skill
22:17	asciilifeform	'prosumer' ?
22:17	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Yes. For me it was called "Freshman Year"
22:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.00038309 = 5.5357 BTC [+]
22:20	asciilifeform	'According to neighbors and a man who hired the teen to write for his Web site, the Osbourn Park student was quiet in person but exceptionally intelligent — authoring articles on complicated science and technology topics.' (wa. p.) << mega-l0l
22:21	asciilifeform	if this is 'intelligent', what's retardation look like ?
22:21	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/author/scott-fargo/ << Actual retardation from a subhuman creature that pretends to the title of mammal
22:21	assbot	Scott Fargo, Author at CryptoCoinsNews ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlOJAF )
22:22	asciilifeform	http://time.com/3732867/etsy-files-for-handcrafted-ipo << another l0l
22:22	assbot	Etsy Files for Handcrafted IPO - TIME ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlOLIV )
22:22	asciilifeform	handcrafted! (tm)
22:22	asciilifeform	'A few years ago, Etsy lifted some of its stricter sales requirements, including a ban on sellers using certain manufacturing techniques and hiring staff...'
22:22	asciilifeform	woodcollector!
22:22	decimation	re: no recourse mortgages < banks hate these, but you can get them
22:22	decimation	one semi-popular scam to run in the us is to buy a house with your "IRA"
22:23	asciilifeform	decimation: presumably for considerably higher upfront cost
22:23	decimation	aye
22:23	asciilifeform	or who the hell would get the other kind
22:23	decimation	well, functionally in the us nearly all mortgages are 30 year fixed loans
22:23	decimation	who nobody purchases except for usg
22:24	decimation	it's all a game of who can pass the liability to usg the most directly
22:24	BingoBoingo	If fiat world could have played nicely, I'd happily be retired in a condo in an "interesting" neighborhood by now, but...
22:24	decimation	at any rate, you can purchase a house with your retirement account, and a no-recourse mortgage is used for that
22:25	decimation	the irs says you can't live in it until you retire, but you can rent it out
22:25	BingoBoingo	!up jitenm
22:25	decimation	there's a small cottage industry > http://www.iralending.com/
22:25	assbot	Self Directed IRA Non-Recourse Loans: Contact NASB Today! ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlP4Ua )
22:25	BingoBoingo	Hello jitenm
22:25	jitenm	howdy folkses
22:25	BingoBoingo	Not bad
22:30	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 250 @ 0.00463785 = 1.1595 BTC [-] {2}
22:31	BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/573324531525287937
22:31	assbot	/Radomysisky /3DPConfidential The guy likened you to a rapist simply because you speak with passion on the topic of politics and technology.
22:33	mircea_popescu	!up Liberza
22:33	Liberza	!down syndrome
22:34	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: who is 3DPConfidential ?
22:34	asciilifeform	and who is Radomysisky
22:35	mircea_popescu	<decimation> it's all a game of who can pass the liability to usg the most directly <<< quite.
22:35	mircea_popescu	!up HubertCumberdale
22:36	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I have no Idea
22:36	BingoBoingo	!up Vexual
22:36	mircea_popescu	isn't cody wilson the guy with that blog, what was it called
22:36	mircea_popescu	;;google site:trilema.com cody wilson
22:36	gribble	No matches found.
22:36	mircea_popescu	hm.
22:36	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: '3d printed gun' fella
22:36	mircea_popescu	oh oh
22:36	asciilifeform	who the others are - no idea
22:36	BingoBoingo	;;google site:qntra.net cody wilson
22:36	gribble	Cody Wilson: "The Bitcoin Community Has Sold Out" | Qntra.net: <http://qntra.net/2014/11/cody-wilson-the-bitcoin-community-has-sold-out/>; Stripe Breaks Up With Cody Wilson | Qntra.net: <http://qntra.net/2014/11/stripe-breaks-up-with-cody-wilson/>; Cody R Wilson Announces Candidacy for Vessenes' Bitcoin ...: <http://qntra.net/2014/11/cody-r-wilson-announces-candidacy-for-vessenes- (1 more message)
22:38	asciilifeform	'...We have plenty of assassination markets now...' << lol, he said this?!
22:38	asciilifeform	does 'market' mean something other than it did when i learned engl.?
22:39	asciilifeform	i.e., it no longer means 'where you go to trade money for $goodies' but just 'place you go to dump excess money'
22:39	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Market means the same. At best I assume Cody is an agent...
22:40	mircea_popescu	lol bitcoin community has sold out.
22:40	mircea_popescu	whai such much lulz everywhere today!
22:40	asciilifeform	agent must have a purpose
22:40	asciilifeform	what kind of 'sin' is he meant to tempt 'sinners' into?
22:40	mircea_popescu	ya srsly.
22:40	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I suspect is is merely a broad net to collect information on malcontents
22:41	mircea_popescu	not every derpage's agency.
22:42	asciilifeform	one could make two or three mental leaps and suppose that his work is for getting ammo banned by usg quicker
22:42	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Maybe not, but having your product obstructed by every domestic shipping company... maybe?
22:42	asciilifeform	or at the very least, to provide the justification-furniture when the bans are rolled out
22:42	BingoBoingo	Indicator, maybe not a perfect one
22:43	mircea_popescu	tbh, that is the only logical end game : US of Best Korea, where everything is banned not because they can't afford anything, but for Ideological Reasons. Honest.
22:43	mircea_popescu	i used to know poor people like that. all the things they couldn't afford, they didn't do not because they couldn't afford them
22:43	mircea_popescu	but for Other Reasons.
22:43	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: we already have this. in slow motion
22:43	mircea_popescu	pretty much yeh
22:44	Liberza	so, asicminer is dead because friedcat has been kidnapped by mongolians.
22:44	Liberza	interesting
22:44	mircea_popescu	so basically... either water the plantville farm all day, or else go talk to tlp's intensive pilling unit, or worse!
22:44	mircea_popescu	Liberza is this cnn ?
22:44	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo, ben_vulpes: incidentally, bullet would be a perfect 'killer app' for electrolytic machining. low mass, touchy geometry
22:44	mircea_popescu	this is a good point.
22:45	mircea_popescu	also perfectly metallic.
22:45	asciilifeform	aha
22:45	mircea_popescu	yeah, this is happening.
22:45	asciilifeform	ditto shell
22:45	mircea_popescu	yup
22:45	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Only if electrolytic machining apparatus is refined. Otherwise plastermolds
22:45	mircea_popescu	mebbe electrolytic finishing.
22:45	mircea_popescu	have them machined grossly then electrofined.
22:46	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: this needs only the most trivial form of electrolytic machining - with ready-made cavity
22:46	Vexual	build the spin in
22:47	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: have them machined grossly then electrofined << nonono - whole point is to make'em in a cup in kitchen, jungle conditions
22:47	asciilifeform	the concept is meant to address an earlier thread - 'pashtun can make ak but rounds are still from izhevsk'
22:47	mircea_popescu	does this cup mine copper ?
22:47	asciilifeform	copper can be had virtually anywhere short of antarctica
22:47	asciilifeform	in one form or another
22:48	mircea_popescu	can be had, how ?
22:48	mircea_popescu	as bars ? why not be had as "X profile"
22:48	mircea_popescu	where X is gross machined bullet.
22:48	asciilifeform	as pipes
22:48	mircea_popescu	oh i c what you mean.
22:48	asciilifeform	a metre of pipe - 500 rounds
22:48	mircea_popescu	lol alf's crazy gnome lab. "insert pipe here, piss in this funnel and point this end towards enemy".
22:49	Vexual	yeah and he claims hes not a hipster
22:49	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform btw, you ever seen la zizanie ?
22:49	asciilifeform	nein
22:49	mircea_popescu	excellent antique french movie.
22:49	mircea_popescu	listen, do this : pirate it, sit the girl down one fine evening after a delicious repast, watch this thing.
22:49	mircea_popescu	guaranteed entertainment .
22:50	*	asciilifeform found, puts on list
22:50	asciilifeform	definitely relevant
22:50	mircea_popescu	if there's a way to show the cultural superiority of the 4th republic, this film in this context is it.
22:51	asciilifeform	briefly back to the bullet thread: the most interesting thing about the suggested method is that any material can be used, so long as it conducts and behaves reasonably well as aqueous ion
22:51	asciilifeform	even, e.g., tungsten
22:51	asciilifeform	whatever's at hand
22:51	mircea_popescu	depleted uranium!
22:51	mircea_popescu	best fucking bullets, srsly. no one lives.
22:52	asciilifeform	if that's what's in your cellar - then yes
22:52	mircea_popescu	metallic arsenic bullets. an assassin's dream come true
22:52	asciilifeform	(who has du in his cellar? anyone with a boat or airplane graveyard)
22:52	asciilifeform	keels, aileron counterweights
22:53	mircea_popescu	for that matter : sodium bullets encased in very thin metal : just thick enough to carry it through the air. once it fractures on impact, sodium released.
22:53	asciilifeform	the 'glass bullet' is as nearly as old as the detective story genre.
22:53	mircea_popescu	aye
22:53	BingoBoingo	Rubidium
22:53	asciilifeform	(not much seen in reality, due to shockwaves, but doesn't keep aficionados from trying)
22:54	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform such trials particularly suited to electroprocess.
22:54	asciilifeform	aha
22:54	mircea_popescu	breathe new life into an entire literary field!
22:54	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform> (who has du in his cellar? anyone with a boat or airplane graveyard) << Anyone in Iowa has too much
22:55	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: would need a sabot
22:55	asciilifeform	then will work.
22:57	asciilifeform	bonus points for the bullet exercise if you can dispense with the 'mold' entirely and form the conical part purely with field gradient in the bath
22:57	asciilifeform	out of ordinary rod stock
22:58	asciilifeform	sorta a 'solid state electric lathe.'
22:59	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform got a link to where you go "omg wtf bbq am i the only one trying to run these shitstacks"
22:59	mircea_popescu	in teh logs
22:59	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-03-2015#1040458
22:59	assbot	Logged on 04-03-2015 04:11:00; assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 22:23:41; ascii_field: every time i do this, i get the distinct feeling that i'm the only living thing other than the package maintainer/developer who tried to build it
22:59	asciilifeform	^ most recently
22:59	mircea_popescu	ty
23:00	mircea_popescu	i'm making a sjsqd megapiece, it's great that convo.
23:00	asciilifeform	to round off the electrobullet thread, i made this gedankenexperiment up for this just to show what folks like wilson -would- be doing if they were serious
		↖
23:00	asciilifeform	because much simpler even than what they do
23:00	asciilifeform	no need for computer, even.
23:01	asciilifeform	'3d printer', for those unfamiliar, is a very costly item. i don't even keep one here, can't justify
23:01	decimation	re: wilson < it strikes me that he's just trying to get publicity
23:01	asciilifeform	the ultimate publicity is when your shit - works
23:01	decimation	he recently posted that fedex banned shipping his 3d milling machines
23:02	decimation	obviously, he's selling them as 'death in a box'
23:02	decimation	instead of '3d milling machine'
23:02	asciilifeform	fedex is, afaik, free to boycott whoever
23:02	asciilifeform	it isn't the national post
23:02	decimation	sure. and whoever is free to make a press release about it
23:03	decimation	so I don't think he's serious. although the idea of milling your own 'm-4gery' out of an '80%' receiver is a neat one
23:03	asciilifeform	decimation: it's sop among u.s. small arms aficionados
23:04	asciilifeform	decimation: they have this ancient law, where that one part is the only thing that 'counts' as a limited item, and the rest of the weapon can be bought with cash in a shop or even outdoor market
23:04	decimation	asciilifeform: yeah, you can even buy the parts to turn your milled receiver into a pistol http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/pistols.asp
23:04	assbot	Bushmaster - Carbon 15 Pistols ... ( http://bit.ly/1BTqBEF )
23:04	decimation	as fucktarded as that is
23:04	asciilifeform	see the 'saw-off' mosin earlier in thread
23:04	asciilifeform	poor ears
23:05	decimation	asciilifeform: one thing that bewilders me is why suppressors and subsonic ammo is not popular in the us
23:05	decimation	I guess going deaf at the range is an implied rite of manhood
23:05	asciilifeform	decimation: this might have to do with the fact that much of what u.s. folks take to the shooting galleries seems to exist for little purpose but to make an impressive 'bang'
23:06	asciilifeform	so the suppressors (sop in eu) were banned as something only a 'shady crook' would use
23:06	decimation	you can buy them in the us, if they are legal in your state and you submit many forms to usg
23:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00037791 = 2.1163 BTC [-]
23:07	asciilifeform	iirc they're limited to public servants or folks willing to license themselves as 'museums' (complete with fingerprinting, letters of recommendation from mayor, surprise inspections, ... etc)
23:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 42 @ 0.05173809 = 2.173 BTC [+] {3}
23:07	decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I'm not sure what you agree to when you buy one but you definitely need a note from stalin
23:08	decimation	I suspect the real reason that usg makes it difficult is because a suppressed small arm has real utility against usg
23:09	asciilifeform	how?
23:11	mircea_popescu	rather than franceg, say ?
23:13	decimation	asciilifeform: the relatively silent firearm can be used to ambush and retreat?
23:13	decimation	mircea_popescu: didn't you make the point about how the guns we are allowed to keep are of little threat to usg anyway?
23:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00037638 = 1.9948 BTC [-] {2}
23:14	mircea_popescu	decimation ambush like whom ?
23:17	decimation	well, I'm thinking of a more military scenario
23:18	*	asciilifeform is an armchair general only, but doesn't see the military advantage of usg against subjects as consisting solely or even largely of superior small arms. what, rebel army won't break the law against modifying trigger of semi weapons to auto? rather, advantage of usg is same as in the time of hammurabi - soldiers are fed by the palace so they needn't 'waste' time on honest work; are resupplied so they needn't look for what
23:19	decimation	asciilifeform: it's not even clear that having full auto ar-15's would be much of an advantage at all
		↖
23:20	asciilifeform	or whatever $machine
23:20	decimation	asciilifeform: but I agree with your point. ultimately any resistance to usg is going to be economic
23:20	asciilifeform	picture if usg tomorrow said 'we don't care, go buy a cannon if you want, like it's 1780 again'
23:21	asciilifeform	how many will buy?
23:21	asciilifeform	usg still controls, de-facto, the factory, and can thus set price
23:21	decimation	particularly, as you have pointed out, the ammo factory
23:21	asciilifeform	by the time you have a desire to buy the cannon instead of 'toyota' - it's generally too late
23:24	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-11-2014#934786 << relevant thread
23:24	assbot	Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
23:26	decimation	asciilifeform: pounding a wedge between usg and its ability print bezzlars is the proper route of resistance
23:26	decimation	that, and finding a way to mill bullets at home :)
23:33	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 254 @ 0.00461378 = 1.1719 BTC [+] {5}
23:34	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 500 @ 0.00521471 = 2.6074 BTC [+] {4}
23:41	decimation	http://www.cnbc.com/id/102477304 < "When it comes to price growth, however, New York topped the list for prime property worldwide, according to Knight Frank. Prices jumped 18 percent in New York in 2014. Aspen, Colorado, ranked second, with prices up 16 percent."
		↖
23:41	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1EhG2qo )
23:41	decimation	and the fed is worried about how inflation is too low
23:43	mircea_popescu	decimation i had made that point, yes, but the counterpositive is not necessarily true.
23:44	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the price thing is amusingly at work in all sorts of ATF stuff.
23:44	mircea_popescu	tons of things "legal if you have a license we aren't issuing because we're at liberty to do this."
23:45	decimation	some rich 'collectors' in the us obtain the proper notes to get fully automatic machine guns
23:46	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 312 @ 0.00463785 = 1.447 BTC [-] {2}
23:46	decimation	50 cal rounds go for like $5
23:46	decimation	as you can imagine, only the rich can have such a hobby
23:46	mircea_popescu	well, it's not rich per se.
23:47	mircea_popescu	only dependants.
23:47	mircea_popescu	the buffett-rich, the people who are not merely willing to go on the record stating "i am representative of richness, i couldn't exist outside of usg, therefore usg is EVERYTHING", but actually believe it.
23:48	mircea_popescu	lemme dig up relevant quote.
23:49	decimation	didn't Carnegie, Rockefeller, et. al. bail out us banks from their personal accounts?
23:50	mircea_popescu	"accounts'
23:50	mircea_popescu	the j p morgan bailout was essentially a "everyone come to my house!" and then "you will do like so because i say so"
23:50	decimation	yeah exactly
23:51	decimation	and crassus was said to have wealth equal to the treasury
23:51	decimation	now that's 'rich'
23:51	mircea_popescu	uh, treasury was never that rich.
23:52	asciilifeform	a case like these is simply historians misidentifying who is actually the fella wearing the crown
23:52	mircea_popescu	to properly grok how rich the triumvir was : he could afford to pay for ~18 million usians to go fight for tikrit.
23:52	asciilifeform	(whether by malfeasance or otherwise)
23:52	mircea_popescu	the cost for the 20 measly thousand the dod scrounged together (and who faced exactly the fate of crassus' host) was > 1bn
23:53	mircea_popescu	know many dudes with 1trn in loose change knocking around ?
23:53	decimation	yeah exactly
23:53	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he was one of the three, nothing is misidentified is it.
23:53	decimation	I assume he meant jp morgan
23:54	asciilifeform	thiking more of ^
23:54	asciilifeform	*thinking
23:54	mircea_popescu	oh. well, no. he wore the banking crown, nobody disputed that, and for good reason.
23:54	mircea_popescu	but division of labour eh ?
23:55	decimation	well, morgan and his other monopoly friends thought they could 'endow' their bailout wealth to usg via the federal reserve
23:55	mircea_popescu	a crown in the traditional sense is a very primitive instrument, because it purports (necessarily, but ineffectually) to hold ALL sovereignty. now the poor bearer's stuck deciding how fires are to be put out, how wives are to be kept, etc.
23:55	decimation	that didn't work out very well
23:55	mircea_popescu	decimation this is entirely counterfactual nonsense that never happened.
23:56	mircea_popescu	an' generally, i'd be wary of trusting the current retards' retelling of century old banking history.
23:56	mircea_popescu	for one thing, they're too stupid to understand it, for another they don't speak the language, for the third they imagine they have political judgements to make.
23:57	decimation	did morgan et al not meet on jekyll island to institute the fed?
23:57	mircea_popescu	anyway, i dunno where that wb quote is, somewhere in his 70s brk letters. all poetic about how great paying taxes is because hey, being rich's unfair.
23:58	mircea_popescu	decimation afaik he wasn't there.
23:58	mircea_popescu	he died iether before or soon after, and had for a while retired.

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