Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-08-31 | 2019-09-02 → ↓
03:27 lobbes alighty, I got the "bare-bones" logotron up and running (just in test chans atm): http://logs.ericbenevides.com
03:27 lobbes still need to: 1) test a bit more 2) import data dumps 3) get bot in all of the chans
03:28 lobbes what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
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03:31 lobbes hint: even though the "mod_proxy" wasn't showing up via the "apache2 -M" dump, nor in my modules.d configs... it, apparently, works anyway? Idk I'm sleep deprived nao; off to bed
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
04:40 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932770 - mine is the first in the list there (103.36.92.112) but it doesn't seem to make it to top-1k providers of blocks; no idea why though, as far as I can tell it's been chugging along nicely all this time.
04:40 ossabot Logged on 2019-08-31 17:59:20 asciilifeform: btw : awk '{print $8}' whogave_10_20_2018-8_31_2019.txt | sort | uniq > givers.txt >> less than 200 nodez !
04:42 diana_coman at least it scrapes through into top-500 though, lol.
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~ 8 hours 5 minutes ~
12:47 jurov !!v A837C63790FD0292E6203F894FB2179FA0554CA426E2FAE06517FB325239D9C8
12:47 deedbot jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 15
~ 26 minutes ~
13:13 feedbot http://thewhet.net/2019/09/transfagarasan/ << The Whet -- Transfagarasan
~ 43 minutes ~
13:56 BingoBoingo !Xbuy 131mn 31 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred
13:56 auctionbot Buy order # 1056 created by BingoBoingo: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred Opening: 131mn ecu Ending: 2019-09-02 12:24:44.564940 UTC (30 hours)
14:09 trinque !Xbid 1056 131mn
14:09 auctionbot Buy order # 1056: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred Heard: 131mn from trinque. Ending: 2019-09-02 12:24:44.564940 UTC (30 hours 47 mins)
14:13 mircea_popescu yay!
14:14 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932775 << sounds exactly right, actually.
14:14 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-31 17:59:34 asciilifeform: from this log, it would imho not be a mistake to say that there are approx 200 boxen that could be described as btc nodes . the rest -- are https://www.oglaf.com/humans/ .
14:18 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932825 << how about nao ?
14:18 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-31 21:15:45 trinque: btw mircea_popescu, I'm around if you want to fire off that tx
14:18 trinque sure thing
14:18 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932832 << no, it was his loop.
14:18 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-31 21:33:22 trinque: btw, spyked did you actually have a theory whereby my irc bot sits doing w/e for so long it doesn't respond to pings in time?
14:18 feedbot http://trilema.com/2019/my-weekend-adventure-including-the-answer-to-the-florimund-riddle-bears-how-brasov-got-itself-banned-but-romania-altogether-not-just-yet-assorted-derisions-and-aspersions-as-well-as-no-sexually/ << Trilema -- My weekend adventure. Including the answer to the Florimund riddle, bears, how Brasov got itself banned (but Romania altogether not just yet), assorted derisions and aspersions as well as no sexually explici
14:19 mircea_popescu trinque, aite, lemme do it over, i don't want to pay week-old invoice in bitcoin. 5 mins.
14:19 trinque kk
14:21 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 0.10432 196nBGSsr8rod8ujHNMM4NQxHshEak2pCK
14:21 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gCon3/?raw=true
14:21 mircea_popescu good call, too, it apparently went downhill.
14:22 mircea_popescu !!v C843C3EDAD57CBADF09B9849655F9A8590AD2665807FE81588B00FA0930C6941
14:22 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8Cfuf/?raw=true
14:23 mircea_popescu aite, i take it all good
14:25 trinque yep, sec.
14:26 mircea_popescu in other news, man it feels gooood to write/publish a new article. i actually enjoy it way the fuck more than meeting a new girl -- on average.
~ 23 minutes ~
14:49 trinque holy fuck, the buildings are literally sleepy, lol.
14:50 asciilifeform lol i was half-expecting to see ventilation shaft of fuhrerbunker somewhere in them cobblestones.
14:50 mircea_popescu keks
14:59 * asciilifeform oddly enuff has seen 'transfagarasan' once. it was distinctly visible from plane.
15:00 mircea_popescu it is, yeah
15:00 asciilifeform also wondered, who and why drives there, when europistan has proper trains, cheap planes
15:00 mircea_popescu iirc one of the best serpentine roads in the world, it's a wonder they didn't simply close it and rent it out for motorcycling events
15:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, people who enjoy driving
15:00 asciilifeform evidently ! nao answered.
15:01 mircea_popescu very hard to match the comfort of a haremcar in any plane/train etc.
15:02 mircea_popescu though cairo-aswan sleeping car was certainly close.
15:06 asciilifeform iirc that serpentine was built as part of 'what if war with sovok!' episode
15:07 mircea_popescu meanwhile in utterly mindblowing meta : nutaku.net/games/7-angels is a... game that... well... it simulates dating. for the people for whom the normal simulated dating apps ain't simulacrous enough, they have the next step over.
15:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, aha, was 1970s military stuff
15:08 asciilifeform nao, ~why~ shoemaker expected war w/ sovok, i do not know
15:08 mircea_popescu nfi how the logic went, trivial to bomb out of existence, most of it is being bombed out of existence by yearly rains
15:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, whole nixon stuff in the 70s
15:09 mircea_popescu not to mention, telling the idiots they were idiots re czech, and besides... even when gorbi took over ceausescu saw him more like an inept son figure than anythign
15:09 mircea_popescu ie, romanians never thought very much of russkis. nfi why and wherefore, but it's a historical fact. making their current thinking the world of ustards even more shocking.
15:10 asciilifeform iirc was connected w/ ro cp aligning w/ chinese line ( 'hrusch's speech at 20th party congress - betrayal of ideals!11' etc )
15:10 mircea_popescu possibly.
15:11 mircea_popescu in any case -- the only good army in the country (4th transylvania, stationed around cluj and made up of you know, mountain folk) kinda away from bucharest
15:11 mircea_popescu the logical move'd have been to take capital to brasov, but w/e.
15:11 * asciilifeform still has a chinese, circa '70 or so, towel, hanging, bought by ancestors in trip to ro. they're ~eternal.
15:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a++ bear btw. ( supposedly there is a bear in east usa, but i've never seen. even the 1 in the zoo, seems to have died 20y ago )
15:13 mircea_popescu this is one of a bunch, actually. we even saw a hedgehog cross the road towards sunset
15:14 mircea_popescu what i mean : multiple bear sightings. this one just managed to film
15:15 asciilifeform seems like bear's country, eh. ( is there even anyffin man-made in those parts , other than that autobahn ? )
15:15 mircea_popescu yep, major bear country.
15:16 mircea_popescu and... um, sure. like, food.
15:16 asciilifeform food as in, what tourists throw from autos ?
15:17 mircea_popescu well i mean... we ate there. seated even
15:17 mircea_popescu lotta man made things all around!
15:17 lobbes man himself is technically man-made
15:18 mircea_popescu the area is populated, like in europe, not wilderness, like in the us. there's a church within a day's walk in whichever direction
15:18 asciilifeform re czechs-in-'68 lulz -- apparently gnarly subj, with archaeologists still wanking. (supposedly -- ck was evenly split, and andropov's vote broke tie)
15:18 mircea_popescu afaik, yes.
15:19 asciilifeform there's an entire school of crackpottery that andropov was 'manchurian candidate', grown by finn 'machiavelli' otto kuusinen .
15:20 asciilifeform ( imho as far as these go, not even unfounded, a. crowned, after all, gorby )
15:20 mircea_popescu i suppose
15:21 mircea_popescu how's life treatin ya lobbes
15:25 lobbes good good. About to depart for a road-trip (roughly 1200 miles of drivin' in the next 48 hours), so I'll be away from terminal for a spell
15:25 trinque asciilifeform: I used to see black bears in PA as a kid.
15:25 lobbes will be monitoring logz tho
15:25 trinque neato, where you headed?
15:26 lobbes nowhere interesting (Ohio). Bringing girly back home finally. Perhaps will take some pics for blog though on way back
15:26 asciilifeform lobbes: the ejected girly , that is ?
15:26 trinque just stick her on a bus?
15:26 lobbes the drive through west virginia is beautiful
15:27 mircea_popescu his girl, his rules!
15:27 trinque sorry sorry, lol
15:27 lobbes asciilifeform: is indeed ejected girly. Didn't come to having to call police it seems; she got the message
15:27 trinque listen if the cops don't show up it's not a trinquian solution!11!1
15:27 lobbes hahaha
15:27 mircea_popescu keks.
15:28 asciilifeform lobbes: why not. just dun get close enuff where she can re-inject the toxoplasma and make you into zombie..
15:29 lobbes indeed. well I'm off. have fun #t!
15:30 trinque safe travels
15:35 * asciilifeform about to restart reader.py , adding ossabot to 'bots' for proper colouration. expect ~5sec of dead time.
15:35 * asciilifeform done.
15:35 mircea_popescu one of these days ima notice one of these in time to actually stick some lines in the silence
15:35 asciilifeform diana_coman: plox to add 'snsabot' to yours, for similar .
15:35 mircea_popescu mwahahaha
15:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it dun affect the logger bot.
15:36 asciilifeform !q uptime
15:36 snsabot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 16d 5h 12m
15:36 mircea_popescu awww
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15:36 asciilifeform lol
15:37 asciilifeform afaik this is actually 1st time that we have 100% interchangeable-part bots .
15:38 mircea_popescu i was thinking, all this shit is much too not fragile, wtf are we doing here!
15:40 diana_coman asciilifeform: hm, I thought I had added it, will have to check.
15:40 asciilifeform !o uptime
15:40 ossabot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 2d 2h 13m
15:40 asciilifeform neato.
15:43 diana_coman bear posed even better for Hannah!
15:44 mircea_popescu ikr!
15:45 asciilifeform let's see : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932938 < > http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932938
15:45 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 15:36:15 mircea_popescu: awww
15:45 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-01 15:51:41 asciilifeform: !q uptime
15:45 asciilifeform hey diana_coman , odd
15:45 asciilifeform why not aligned ?
15:46 mircea_popescu aaand her super great large format pics put my blog to shame, as seen on this curved meterwide display right here. damn.
15:46 asciilifeform seems like ossabot lost a line at some point ?
15:48 asciilifeform grr, i see why.
15:50 asciilifeform or nm, that wouldn't explain ( thought, at first 'it sees own output, naturally, 1st' but that wouldn't explain wai above diverges )
15:51 asciilifeform let's 1 moar : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932845 << >> http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932845
15:51 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 04:42:31 diana_coman: at least it scrapes through into top-500 though, lol.
15:51 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-01 04:55:56 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932770 - mine is the first in the list there (103.36.92.112) but it doesn't seem to make it to top-1k providers of blocks; no idea why though, as far as I can tell it's been chugging along nicely all this time.
15:51 asciilifeform ^ still delta of 1 .
15:52 asciilifeform diana_coman i suspect you missed 1 line when was manually syncing .
15:52 diana_coman asciilifeform: hm, the indices though seem out of sync earlier
15:53 diana_coman but uhm, my http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932843 is your http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932841
15:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 03:28:55 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
15:53 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-01 03:44:26 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
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15:54 diana_coman i.e. if anything I have 2 lines more??
15:54 asciilifeform gotta find where, and why.
15:54 diana_coman well, syncing indices is gotta be automated not manual hunting though
15:54 asciilifeform this also
16:02 asciilifeform ok found
16:02 asciilifeform diana_coman yours logged when wasn't voiced
16:02 asciilifeform this accts for the extra lines.
16:02 asciilifeform recall that bots are 'deaf' to own output, so there is no, afaik, pill against this
16:03 diana_coman ah, right you are
16:03 asciilifeform divergence happened at birth of ossabot , the 1st time it was asked to speak
16:03 * asciilifeform manually walked the log-raw/ dumps, found
16:03 diana_coman thank you for the hunt !
16:03 asciilifeform np
16:04 diana_coman but it does mean that indices won't be in sync, pretty much, huh
16:04 asciilifeform nao if could think of how to cleanly fix these... to make the bot echoes actually interchangeable, as they oughta be
16:05 diana_coman meanwhile I found out while it failed to colour snsabot properly: I called it nsabot ofc; drat
16:06 asciilifeform i suspected this
16:06 asciilifeform ( it would have been 'nsabot', too, but someone apparently is squatting that nick )
16:06 diana_coman fixed
16:06 asciilifeform ty diana_coman
16:06 diana_coman np at all
16:08 asciilifeform the divergence thing is gonna back backlinkage implementation very painful
16:08 asciilifeform ( not to mention, impedes an imho important function of having multiple bots, i.e. where can substitute links if 1 fails )
16:10 asciilifeform we're gonna need a pill .
16:11 asciilifeform ( for that matter, asciilifeform still not attempted to correct divergence vs. phf's bot, which came from the uniturds crapola 3w ago )
16:12 asciilifeform not to mention the horror with the dates ( it is not difficult to find lines that e.g. snsabot will quote correctly, but ossabot not, and in reverse, on acct of clock diff )
16:13 asciilifeform diana_coman: thread re the latter
16:13 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 21:09:04 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931384 << what's the url you want to have? possibly doable as apache-level URL rewrite
16:14 diana_coman asciilifeform: I agree re trouble but sadly I don't have any idea how to solve it
16:14 asciilifeform diana_coman: mircea_popescu said 'go think', so i went, to think. still haven't a pill tho.
16:16 asciilifeform re that thrd, asciilifeform prolly will succumb to temptation to buy rubidium clock ( they're apparently laffably cheap, 100-200 bux or so, massive pile of surplus from gsm towers ) but this aint a solution as such, i aint about to ask ~erryone~ to buy one and build the 10mhz-to-pc-clock box for same. asciilifeform is simply tired of his own clocks drifting all over.
16:16 asciilifeform ( the lamp is apparently good for 10-20 yrs, in these )
16:20 asciilifeform imho that thing oughta be standard item in pc. gives clean, stable fundamental freq from which can run pll, incl. the 1 for cpu clock, in principle.
16:21 asciilifeform ( physically -- they're about half the volume of box of cigar. )
16:25 asciilifeform diana_coman: take a look in your config... suddenly your box shows as 'sossabot' ??
16:26 asciilifeform ( e.g. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931351 seen via www reader )
16:26 ossabot Logged on 2019-08-26 23:58:39 sossabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 21:02:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: currently hunting for an 1u-embeddable 16port GB switch
16:28 asciilifeform ossabot: check your nick = .... in the conf
16:28 asciilifeform err, diana_coman ^
16:35 diana_coman asciilifeform: uhm, nick is fine in conf, that's weird.
16:36 asciilifeform seems like this happened from the colouration fix : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932965
16:36 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 15:53:56 ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:44:26 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
16:37 diana_coman moreover asciilifeform it's ..yours??
16:37 asciilifeform grr
16:37 asciilifeform diana_coman: mine displays correctly
16:37 diana_coman I mean, your *bot* that got renamed weirdly as ossabot?
16:37 diana_coman e.g. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926582
16:37 ossabot Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:23 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926527 << also jhvh1 and a111 please. and i guess candilust & tb0t eventually, though not yet. oh and "ossabot" is actually "sossabot" for some reason, i guess let's stick to it.
16:37 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-08 21:16:41 lobbes: http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823 << Seeing as the order was given to strike scriba from the list, I have also removed it from the TMSR bot directory (which means the command prefix "!$" is available again): http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html
16:38 diana_coman ahh, drat
16:38 diana_coman I know what the trouble is there
16:38 diana_coman nm, it's in my db, will have to fix
16:39 diana_coman it's from when I imported your dump
16:39 asciilifeform diana_coman: i'ma manually set off my dump, if this helps ( can grab it in 10s or so)
16:39 diana_coman asciilifeform: no, not needed
16:39 asciilifeform aite
16:39 asciilifeform ( done anyway )
16:40 diana_coman I just need to think a bit re how to fix it without creating more trouble
16:40 asciilifeform what was the issue there ?
16:41 diana_coman asciilifeform: me being silly really; your dump has nsabot user, my db has ossabot so I did stupidly a blind replace, didn't think of the name in the log
16:41 asciilifeform a!
16:42 diana_coman so yeah, "sossabot" was snsabot lol
16:42 asciilifeform lol
16:45 * asciilifeform fwiw has not yet manually fiddled the db in any way -- i.e. phf's imports are as they were found. the 1 'hand' fix was when dropped the botched eat of #e and reran w/ lobbes's corrected eater.py . but all url's are as-they-were atm.
16:46 asciilifeform 'era 1' , when finally eaten, will be 'dekakoized' via phf's algo, i.e. <a href="...foo...">bar</a> only 'foo' will be transfomed, when foo corresponds to a kakotron url
16:46 asciilifeform is why i divided time into 'era'
16:47 asciilifeform currently era 1 has not been eaten, it is pending a pill for the clock diff grrr
16:48 asciilifeform diana_coman if you want snsabot url's to point to your www, imho the correct method, is this, rather than to actually alter db
16:48 diana_coman asciilifeform: uhm? it wasn't about url, lol
16:49 asciilifeform hm i was thinking diana_coman actually ran 'sed' on the db dump
16:49 diana_coman yes; but not for changing urls (anyway it doesn't help with that, or I don't see how since url uses nosuchlabs /ossasepia, no?)
16:50 diana_coman and I don't see any need to change the urls anyway
16:50 asciilifeform hm so for which was it ? why did the dump need to be sed'd ?
16:51 asciilifeform ooh hm i think i get it
16:51 asciilifeform cuz diff db user.
16:51 diana_coman asciilifeform: yep, as I said to start with, lol.
16:51 asciilifeform right.
16:51 asciilifeform ok makes sense.
16:52 mod6 Good Afternoon, Foundation Statement for August: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2019-September/000338.html
16:52 asciilifeform ( in re urls tho -- if we had a reliable sync, would be quite painless to have each logger re-point log links to self )
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16:52 mod6 (Mainly follows what I talked about in the logs a couple of days ago.)
16:54 asciilifeform mod6: a++ . chronicle errything you can, incl. (especially!) dead ends
16:54 mod6 Yeah, will do. It'll be an adventure.
16:54 asciilifeform imho mircea_popescu was right about this, gotta write it or otherwise will go in circles 4evah
16:55 asciilifeform the way, is said, people go in the desert
16:56 mod6 *nod*
17:00 mod6 crap, being called off for just a moment here. bbs
17:07 trinque soft suggestion, write this on a personal blog.
17:11 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933045 << what is this ?
17:11 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 16:52:52 asciilifeform: ( in re urls tho -- if we had a reliable sync, would be quite painless to have each logger re-point log links to self )
17:14 mod6 trinque: for sure.
17:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if had ...logger-a/log/trilema/.../#12345... and ...logger-b/log/trilema/.../#12345... go to same place, then their www can reliably point all links to self ( for e.g. backlinkage , when implemented) otherwise not
17:18 mircea_popescu why woukld he do that /
17:19 mircea_popescu if i use logger a it is because i use logger a ; i wouldn't appreciate seeing my lines edited to use logger b, and especially not by logger b.
17:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how wouldja have backlinks ( as phf had ) work ?
17:20 mircea_popescu what do you mean ?
17:21 asciilifeform as displayed in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115
17:21 asciilifeform the arrows that point to downstream (and correspondingly, upstream) refs
17:22 mircea_popescu yes. so what, they work if same logger is used.
17:22 asciilifeform tbf phf's proggy only understood own
17:22 asciilifeform aha
17:22 mircea_popescu you see a problem with this /
17:22 mircea_popescu ?
17:23 asciilifeform yes, in that when errybody has own logger, and uses it to echo, nobody will have anyffin resembling a complete index of backlinks
17:23 mircea_popescu so ?
17:25 asciilifeform so that knob (not implemented yet) becomes just about worthless even in principle. but this is only tip of iceberg -- if the db's diverge arbitrarily, how wouldja go about syncing gaps, other than by hand.
17:25 mircea_popescu why worthless ?
17:25 mircea_popescu i am not discussing db divergence ; i am discussing line rewriting.
17:26 asciilifeform imho line rewriting is Wrong Thing entirely. errybody oughta have identical (to extent possible) db. q was re ~display~ in www , i.e. where the links point.
17:26 asciilifeform as in e.g. phf's, where kako links display as originally witnessed, but if clicked to to phf's log.
17:26 mircea_popescu i dunno i'm so crazy about redirecting the links, either.
17:27 mircea_popescu seems fundamentally disingenuous, "oh, you clicked on a.com ? here's my own version"
17:27 asciilifeform the old links are dead !
17:27 asciilifeform ( kako's , that is, phf's -- for nao -- alive 0
17:27 asciilifeform )
17:27 mircea_popescu so this is a reason to introduce it as standard practice for live links ?!
17:27 asciilifeform only if you actually want backlinkage resembling phf's ( iirc mircea_popescu put it in spec, and even griped that it aint in yet , not long ago )
17:28 mircea_popescu yes, but i never contemplated this ctulhu beast of it.
17:28 mircea_popescu just, you know, within own domain
17:29 asciilifeform let's suppose not even want this. still imho oughta maintain sync, where #1234 goes to same thing in ea. machine. otherwise the loggers are not in fact plug-in redundant backups for 1 another .
17:29 mircea_popescu sure, why not.
17:29 asciilifeform ( and hm, loox like diana_coman's unplugged for maintenance atm )
17:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'm trying to draw an exact map of this 'cthulhu beast' .
17:31 mircea_popescu ok
17:31 asciilifeform so as to find what is even practical to consider .
17:32 asciilifeform ( this ~is~ afaik 1st time that anyone attempted orchestra of synchronized bots )
17:32 mircea_popescu yup
17:34 asciilifeform imho the bare essential function is when the urls can be made interchangeable such that if 1 fails, can swap in /etc/hosts and carry on civilized conversation until it is fixed; errything other than this, is luxury.
17:34 mircea_popescu in principle, yes.
17:34 mircea_popescu but i dunno that it extends as far as an expectation of functional retrospective backlink decorations
17:35 asciilifeform maybe -- not. but as i understand if the above can be had, than so -- later -- could this.
17:35 asciilifeform *then so
17:39 asciilifeform re 'the beast' -- already unleashed is the beast of variant line ordering (bots will log their own output prior to any other's, per the current scheme, and it is not obvious what -- if anything -- could or even should be done about this )
17:40 mircea_popescu alright, but that's different, specifically in that there's no god-given time
17:40 asciilifeform i already despaired in re the very idea of 'synced time' ; but this is in re absolute ordering.
17:41 mircea_popescu we ~could~ have a rule asking bots to log themselves as they receive the echo rather than as they send the line ; but that'd only work in a sane world where it echos, afaik irc does not
17:42 asciilifeform it does not .
17:42 asciilifeform bots presently are stuck 'manually' writing down own outputs .
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17:42 mircea_popescu so yeah. weird baked in. (gossipd, obviously, will not have the problem, everyone'll hear "here's what you allededly said" from multiple sources)
17:42 asciilifeform aha.
17:43 mircea_popescu such wunderbar winful scheme, it's a fucking wonder they didn't come up with it / use it
17:43 mircea_popescu then you stop and think who "they" are.
17:43 asciilifeform irc per se as i understand is a 'dark ages' creation, before ~anyone stopped to even try to think about ~anything
17:44 asciilifeform possib. 'product' of the other half of same bottle of whiskey as email.
17:44 mircea_popescu the original. hence n upgrades, mentioned recently.
17:44 asciilifeform the 'upgrades' are obv. product of 2nd bottle of whiskey.
17:48 asciilifeform ( incidentally -- as gedankenexperiment -- even 1980s irc ~could~ have been built so as to force a sync. simply force erry issued line to carry a checksum of the prev. seen. and if wrong -- you get eggog back, and asked to resend. but no one was even giving a nanoshit about 'agree on order' etc, quite obviously )
17:50 asciilifeform see also lamport's piece re subj. ( actually from same period ) .
17:50 asciilifeform long-ago solved problem , supposing anyone could've been arsed.
17:51 asciilifeform e.g. bitcoin -- seen through this lens -- is simply a generalization of lamport's sync .
17:52 asciilifeform ( lamport did not offer a 'wat-do if N parties can't agree on 'prev line'', if he had thought about this, bitcoin would have existed, at least as algo, in 1990... )
17:55 asciilifeform re 'why the fuck bot doesn't see own output' -- mircea_popescu had a piece re the idjicy of 'nat' , where same, q of 'what is my ip' becomes suddenly irresolvable w/out external help. i suspect in both cases 'sleep of reason breeds monsters', no one even considered to fucking think.
17:58 asciilifeform 'new jersey philosophy', right, where 'hey it's good enuff, and if turns out not, let ~others~ clean up'. same way as email 'was goodenuff', from the idjit designer's pov, until spam, then suddenly 'what's yer problem with moving to walled gul^H^H^Hgarden, terrorist, will work there as before'. ditto irc.
~ 16 minutes ~
18:14 diana_coman asciilifeform: in the end I did use your most recent dump, thank you.
18:15 diana_coman the above mainly because it's a cleaner solution i.e. no more sed on the db dump (re db user I simply changed manually precisely *that* and not touched any log lines)
18:18 diana_coman ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers
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18:22 asciilifeform diana_coman: appears to work. we're gonna want an algo , tho, that doesn't resolve to 'throw out my db if outta sync and eat the other's' imho .
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18:23 asciilifeform eventually ~will~ come the time when to reconstitute 100% proper picture gotta actually walk N db's .
18:24 asciilifeform ( esp. when we finally get 3+ logtrons )
18:25 diana_coman asciilifeform: indeed; though atm I can't think of anything that isn't ~= automated walk of N dbs
18:26 asciilifeform currently closest thing i have to a workable idea for this is a ~semi~-automatic item that'd eat N dbs and display, to operator, the divergence points, and propose all possible cuts for how to resolve; then select one.
18:26 asciilifeform sorta how gentoo used to have for configs.
18:26 diana_coman a sort of diff & merge
18:26 asciilifeform presently i doubt that this sorta thing can ever be safely 100% automated.
18:28 asciilifeform http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933121 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933121
18:28 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 18:18:11 diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers
18:28 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-01 18:33:42 diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers
18:28 asciilifeform ^ worx!
18:29 diana_coman at least as long as nobody cites the bots.
18:30 asciilifeform the bots in these particular pairs, aha
~ 18 minutes ~
18:48 mircea_popescu keks
18:48 mircea_popescu i find it really satisfyingly funny, the sort of problems we manage to trivially summon
~ 35 minutes ~
19:23 BingoBoingo In local news: https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Mujer-uruguaya-denuncia-que-fue-maltratada-y-agredida-en-un-autobus-en-Estados-Unidos-uc728698
~ 45 minutes ~
20:09 feedbot http://qntra.net/2019/09/amazon-begins-dictating-terms-to-local-police-as-it-builds-residential-video-surveillance-network/ << Qntra -- Amazon Begins Dictating Terms To Local Police As It Builds Residential Video Surveillance Network
~ 32 minutes ~
20:41 mircea_popescu meanwhile in delightful antique trilema, http://trilema.com/2010/ghidul-enervarii/
~ 46 minutes ~
21:27 mircea_popescu speaking of "consequences of bad software", the mars polar lander is suspiciously never mentioned.
21:30 BingoBoingo lol, rocket scientists fucked by "software engineers are engineers too"
21:31 BingoBoingo What's your #engineerstoo story?
~ 45 minutes ~
22:16 BingoBoingo https://www.oglaf.com/bgeeerk/
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