Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-01-12 | 2019-01-14 → ↓
03:24 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886446 -> this made me jump at first to check on S.MG's servers with Pizarro; BingoBoingo please make those announcements clear from the start as to what services precisely are/have been affected
03:24 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 00:03 BingoBoingo: Attn: The Pizarro has rebooted, this was first noticed by mod6. A quick trip to the datacenter showed both power supplies were had their happy green lights lit, the ambient air was conditioned with cool everywhere outside the hot aisle, and the server's chassis was not particularly warm. attn: asciilifeform
03:36 diana_coman mod6, the V check post looks good; maybe move to the new blog your older posts on http://mod6.net/blog.html and update the link at http://mod6.net/ ?
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~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
04:56 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884617 <-- ftr, I agree 100% with this assessment. the last 4 months (at least) of my life have been a rollercoaster, and I'm just beginning to settle down into an arrangement where I can set goals without getting preempted at every corner. my current goal is to have a schedule posted by the end of the month, in the same style as http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2735 ,
04:56 a111 Logged on 2019-01-05 14:30 mircea_popescu: spyked is evidently trying, hence feedbot, but evidently having trouble reconciling saeculum, which i'm going to let stand as such on the grounds that he's new -- even though experience shows that as a dubious idea [for all the eg one could possibly need witness how asciilifeform 's still in the swamp, so many years later].
04:56 spyked http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/11/conveyor-outlook-now-to-feb-2019/ and others
04:59 spyked and in better news, house mogosanu (82.79.58.192) has a fully synced trb node up. it's been running without issues for almost a month now. IMHO it's ready to be added to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html (cc mod6)
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05:02 spyked and in other tasks in my queue, I propose adding billymg and mod6's blogs to feedbot (I'll do that tomorrow if there are no objections)
~ 3 hours 17 minutes ~
08:19 mircea_popescu diana_coman it's entirely possible he didn't know.
~ 31 minutes ~
08:51 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Apologies for the startling
08:51 mircea_popescu spyked feedbot additions process usually goes the other way ; but in this case sure.
~ 36 minutes ~
09:28 mircea_popescu in other news : i'm not entirely current here, but diana_coman does seem to have neatly resolved the ada-cpp linking conundrums. going on which theory, the next step we're upon is what to do with the keys.
09:29 mircea_popescu this is a matter of best practices that's by its nature a republican standard candidate, so i'd very much like to hear the esteemed lordship.
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09:29 mircea_popescu ad interim the draft is, that the client stores all the keys (rsa, serpent, whatever) one per line, the rsa ones in republican format, the rest unspecified as of yet, in a file called keys.tmsr encrypted by the rsa key of the client.
09:30 mircea_popescu this leaves open the "wut do about that encryption key".
09:30 mircea_popescu i'd rather not grandfather the current bitcoin wallet approach, time-tested as it might be. but this problem will recur (no later than "wut do wallet" in any case). so...
~ 2 hours 22 minutes ~
11:53 diana_coman mircea_popescu, and anyone else following smg comms protocol: http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-127409
~ 55 minutes ~
12:49 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886456 << Thanks for reading & feedback diana_coman! I'm working to port over the old-ones as I can. I'll find a temporary solution in the mean time.
12:49 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 08:36 diana_coman: mod6, the V check post looks good; maybe move to the new blog your older posts on http://mod6.net/blog.html and update the link at http://mod6.net/ ?
12:54 billymg !Q later tell hanbot mp-wp patches have been updated: http://billymg.com/2019/01/minor-mp-wp-patch-updates/ -- the only "\ No newline at end of file" strings you should find in .svg refs patch are from before part of the diff (i.e. file diffed had no newline at the end)
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12:54 lobbesbot billymg: The operation succeeded.
12:55 billymg the* before part
12:57 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886460 << Ah, well done, Sir. I've added your name and host's IP to the list of Advertised Republican Nodes. Cheers!
12:57 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 09:59 spyked: and in better news, house mogosanu (82.79.58.192) has a fully synced trb node up. it's been running without issues for almost a month now. IMHO it's ready to be added to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html (cc mod6)
~ 49 minutes ~
13:47 trinque hola #t
13:48 trinque BingoBoingo: in reading your latest, I'm curious what fallback plans you have in between pizarro as is today and pizarro shuttered.
13:49 trinque trivially, if you're not using the full capacity of the rack, first thing I'd do is try to renegotiate the contract with DC for a smaller rental.
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13:53 BingoBoingo trinque: I don't have concrete plans. The major part of the DC cost is pipe rather than rack. Renegotiating for less pipe with the datacenter would change the costs we are basing our colocation price off of as well.
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13:54 trinque consider that I'd, at least, suffer less pipe sooner than no pipe.
13:55 trinque how much runway does a smaller pipe give, and what's the definition of "smaller pipe"?
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13:57 BingoBoingo Well the numbers as of last January http://bingology.net/2018/01/18/datacenter-costs/
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14:00 trinque BingoBoingo: next thing to do would be to instrument the router and see what you're actually using
14:01 trinque I'd be shocked if you needed more than that 10/100.
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14:09 trinque I don't see why you'd change your pricing at all if it turns out nobody's using the capacity.
14:09 BingoBoingo This may be the case. I am very wary about pursuing that avenue without the board and input from all major Pizarro customers.
14:10 trinque at any rate, let me know if you actually want me to weigh in on how to keep it alive. if not, let me know when you want to scrap my server for me, and we can split the proceeds. dead in april without a plan in january is dead now.
14:13 BingoBoingo trinque: Please continue to weigh in. The present lack of weighing in on Pizarro by the forum is concerning.
14:14 trinque you've got my support to make whatever changes you need to capacity to get more time to think on the rest.
14:15 mod6 http://blog.mod6.net/?p=26 << Here's my TRB Keccak Regrind blog post. I have a tarball linked very near the bottom that contains my reground trb keccak vtree, as well as seals for each. These are posted so one may test with these (I need the help!).
14:16 BingoBoingo trinque: Thank you very much for making your desires known.
14:18 mod6 While Republicans are reviewing the above, I'm going to continue working on my TRB HOWTO updates -- I think it's pretty much finished, but I want to test it first before I start handing it around for testing by all. After this, and blessings of the regrind from TMSR~, I'll put a date on when thebitcoin.foundation site will roll over to the keccak vtree exclusively.
14:19 mod6 Thank you in advance to all who read my blog post and make it all the way through. It's a bit lengthy, but most of it may be fairly obvious to the initiated.
14:23 mod6 lol, this is pretty great. So I was just looking at the post, and I was thinking "why does my 8th item in the overview seems spaced in one extra space?", and then I looked at the published source.
14:23 mod6 Mind you, the entire thing is wrapped in <pre>, so that's perhaps why it still shows '8)'.
14:24 mod6 But this is what the code says: <img src='http://blog.mod6.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' />
14:24 mod6 I'll see if I can work around it somehow.
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14:26 mod6 Alright, switched the ')' to ']', and avoids the problem.
~ 15 minutes ~
14:42 mod6 Also, it seems that my mega-diff in the blog somehow slightly-skews the justification to the right by a few characters. I'll try to remedy that. In the mean time, if people want to just read the raw text post instead, I've made that available here as well: http://www.mod6.net/2019/January/13/keccak_regrind_noUTF8.txt
14:48 mod6 Alright, I fixed it. But I'll leave the raw file out there anyway just in case.
14:48 mod6 The problem was, in the mega-diff, there were two places that had lines like this: " -datadir=<dir> \t\t " + _("Specify data directory\n") +
14:49 mod6 Which wp didn't touch the <dir> tag and replace with &lt; and &gt;, and for whatever reason, <dir> seems to play with the text formatting. So after I replaced, it seems aligned properly now.
14:52 mircea_popescu diana_coman answer't.
15:03 diana_coman BingoBoingo, no select script on pizarro's blog?
15:11 diana_coman mircea_popescu, hmm basically a client can end up "making an account" with Eve and not even knowing it/getting then stuck/receiving unexpected messages at next attempt with legitimate server; I'm sure a client can basically recover/notice in the end but it pushes a bit more complexity on client
15:11 mircea_popescu it does so push, but the alternative is pushing more complexity in the wrong place.
15:12 mircea_popescu "There isn't, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active." or how did that go.
15:17 diana_coman at any rate, the q was exactly that: a q for clarification; not finding fault
15:18 diana_coman BingoBoingo, specifically and a bit of follow-up on trinque's point above: pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ has this tiny paragraph starting with "action items" - was/is that fleshed out anywhere?
15:30 mircea_popescu yup.
15:41 BingoBoingo <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, no select script on pizarro's blog? << I'll get it set up in the next couple days.
15:42 mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2019/01/el-chapo-allegedly-used-voip-had-sysadmin-flipped-by-criminal-fbi/ << this shit is pretty lulzy.
15:46 BingoBoingo <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, specifically and a bit of follow-up on trinque's point above: pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ has this tiny paragraph starting with "action items" - was/is that fleshed out anywhere? << I flesh out Pizarro's situation here http://bingology.net/2019/01/11/more-lessons-learned-pizarro-entering-2019/ I am hoping to get feedback from the Pizarro board (asciilifeform and mod6) and this forum. trinque is the first person to
15:46 BingoBoingo offer feedback
15:48 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: "___ __________ never fails to unintentionally entertain"
15:48 mircea_popescu keks
15:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886286 << who is this ?!
15:49 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 04:26 asciilifeform: meanwhile via #asciilifeform : http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/building-the-eulora-client-with-gentoo.html << apparently d00d cleanly baked client on cuntoo
15:50 trinque that's shinohai
15:50 mircea_popescu nice going shinohai
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15:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't know that there's anything wrong with returning gcd of 0,0 as 0. in my abstract mental model wherein 1 is a divisor of all numbers, gcd 0,0 =1, and furthermore 0 can never be a divisor of anything ; but this purely set-driven problem is inconsequential in boole's alt-world afaak.
15:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886306 << returning gcd as 0 is an error message by itself, the usual set is [1,inf)
15:58 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 15:06 asciilifeform: diana_coman: correct. but i also did not 'ha! let's make it eggog cuz nobody did'
16:00 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886328 << absolutely not ; as a philosophical matter this is akin to asking for "the machine to extend classes implicitly" aka both dwim & http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1043874 rolled into one.
16:00 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 15:13 asciilifeform: imho arg can be made for it being the gcd-invoker's responsibility to know what to do with the output
16:00 a111 Logged on 2015-03-06 02:28 asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
16:01 mircea_popescu the machine is expected to give ~correct~ outputs in all cases ; not to give "outputs which may be meaningful if the user knew how to context-interpret them"
16:01 mircea_popescu that latter is actually what c ended up.
16:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886356 << afaik not bounded.
16:09 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 17:28 asciilifeform: would still be handy if someone knew of a smaller bound for s, but not burning q.
16:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886376 << with some caveats as to how "unrelated" (in the m-r sense of the term) those candidates must be, as it's entirely possible to generate an infinite set of lying witnesses for any composite number.
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16:13 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 17:48 asciilifeform: ( re 'how many witnesses', see diana_coman's article, it reviews the necessary maffs, i.e. P(yer prime aint a prime and you die) == (1/4)^n, where n is # of witness )
16:14 diana_coman mircea_popescu, that's shinohai
16:14 mircea_popescu aha
16:15 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886385 << basically "maybe-kinda-sorta lightweight" "pre-linked so you don't have to" version of static ?
16:15 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 18:03 diana_coman: so that'd be at least the "encapsulated" part explained
16:16 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886387 << hopefully can just reuse item. that's the idea at least.
16:16 a111 Logged on 2019-01-11 18:06 asciilifeform: and ftr i'm surely doomed to run into diana_coman's puzzler myself, when i go to write a threaded proggy (e.g. adaized trb)
16:16 diana_coman mircea_popescu, http://ossasepia.com/2019/01/12/compiling-ada-library-for-use-with-non-ada-main/#selection-79.0-91.300
16:17 mircea_popescu putting all sorts of things in there specifically so later on people don't run into "omfg retards why the fuck would they do it like that!!!" sorta issues
16:18 mircea_popescu ic!
16:20 diana_coman I still think it's a mess basically and I wrote it there like that with bullet points precisely because I know I will keep tripping over this so at least I know where to go to ...
16:23 diana_coman BingoBoingo, I re-read now that post with the idea in mind that it's meant to be the "fleshed out" version - it reads like a reasonable summary but I still fail to see the fleshed out plans going forward and esp re "try to drink the ocean" ; I followed the links and noticed the posts but I still get the impression those are only a few and/or manually done, is that correct?
16:26 diana_coman mircea_popescu, re size it's actually going from ~95k current size of static standalone lib to ~800k size of same thing but "encapsulated"
16:27 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I am posting and prodding forums manually, and those are not the only two. Those examples were selected for their relative visibilty. I am getting some noises in response to my fishing now. I plan to meet one fellow from one forum next week while he's passing through the city.
16:29 diana_coman BingoBoingo, specifically this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880369
16:29 a111 Logged on 2018-12-12 19:39 mircea_popescu: why not just enumerate the userbase and message them all ?
16:31 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I am presently hand cranking the database walking.
16:33 diana_coman how do you see that working before pizarro starves?
16:39 diana_coman I fail to find also a continuation to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884838 - > was there some discussion on this going forwards?
16:39 a111 Logged on 2019-01-05 16:45 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884603 << BingoBoingo i'd ~really~ like to hear what is current plan for gettin' heathen custom, so as to finally get the hell out of the red. asciilifeform dun have a massive treasure chest that can run pizarro 'on battery' 4evah (hopefully not surprising, this)
16:40 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-12#1886407 << where's he going to meet a 20something ?
16:40 a111 Logged on 2019-01-12 01:00 asciilifeform: wtf re '49 Year Old' tho! i'd naively think 'may as well hang for a sheep as for a lamb'...
~ 22 minutes ~
17:02 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886480 << that's not particularly useful, seeing how... it'd necessarily mean ppl other than him going into the rack, yes ? kinda kills the value propositioin
17:02 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 18:49 trinque: trivially, if you're not using the full capacity of the rack, first thing I'd do is try to renegotiate the contract with DC for a smaller rental.
17:03 mircea_popescu but in other keks, this could be taken as a "shutdown" a la republique.
17:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886483 << it can't possibly be the problem the dc's kicking him out, he just got a decent chunk wired there. i rather expect he's running into tyhe problem of what to eat himself.
17:04 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 18:55 trinque: how much runway does a smaller pipe give, and what's the definition of "smaller pipe"?
17:05 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It's the problem of what happens in March-April when that runs out.
17:05 mircea_popescu aha
17:06 BingoBoingo If the marketing can't start catching fish. On this point I am working on a response to diana_coman. The short of it is I want help, and I want to know what kind of incentive can bring in some hands to help with marketing.
17:08 diana_coman could pizarro even get in the green just by reducing the pipe? sharing rack sounds more like killing pizarro by definition
17:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886499 << yeah, dunno if youi're using mp-wp or not, but in any case, it has a filter thingee you can turn off/adsjust
17:09 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 19:24 mod6: I'll see if I can work around it somehow.
17:10 mircea_popescu diana_coman i never heard of a body that thrived by eating its fingers, no.
17:10 mircea_popescu generally, bodily parts to be used the ~other~ direction.
17:10 diana_coman and in any case it'd be at best avoiding the problem rather than solving it so more agony down the line in all likelihood
17:12 BingoBoingo <diana_coman> how do you see that working before pizarro starves? << I worry. The more I think about the marketing and trying to make a plan for marketing I worry. I am in the unhappy position of being out of my depth on the marketing problem, repeating my concerns about my lack of marketing prowess, trying to apply advice as I can while juggling other concerns, and not getting any feedback on incentives that can bring other people in
17:12 BingoBoingo to work on the Pizarro marketing problem. Recently there have been some promising contacts from marketing efforts, but I haven't been converting yet.
17:13 mircea_popescu did you get the bitcoin->fiat thing going ? bank accounts, all that jazz ?
17:14 * asciilifeform just got back from snow-related chores, ate log, but must go again shortly
17:15 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: We can do bitcoin to fiat. That is largely solved.
17:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there can be no question of 'sharing rack', it's entirely nonstarter. what there are, are half-height racks, in which most of the other customers of that bldg live. but they are bad deal, iirc they only cost slightly less than a full 42 height.
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17:15 mircea_popescu i expect.
17:16 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo did you ever tell how ? or proprietary sauce ?
17:16 diana_coman BingoBoingo, but how *many* accounts did you message out of how many in the db, over what time, what filter(s) did you use and with what results?
17:18 * asciilifeform will answr gcd etc. points later, would like to keep the bandwidth clear for BingoBoingo thread
17:18 diana_coman and for that matter what is in the pipe to add more to that db , anyway?
17:20 mircea_popescu diana_coman aha, recall ye olde http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/#footnote_3_62044
17:20 diana_coman yes! I was basically waiting for something like that as a minimum re promised writeup review
17:21 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well for the most part, I have a bank account. We've been doing the fiat auctions, and one of the localbitcoins traders has grown his ablity to handle larger conversions as he's gone full time working his bicycle based currency exchange. So far this can meet our near term needs.
17:21 mircea_popescu 2015s standards.
17:21 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo minus the perceived squishy, not bad.
17:21 asciilifeform oh hey terraforming actually started working ?! neat
17:22 diana_coman ugh, why is pizarro's tech finding out this only now!
17:22 mircea_popescu >.<
17:22 asciilifeform i'd hope it's on acct of it being inside the most recent update cycle. ( BingoBoingo ? )
17:25 diana_coman mircea_popescu, on a side note, that iii footnote is funny now "and while it is entirely possible someone strikes a multi-BTC jackpot, it is not altogether very likely"
17:25 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i'd hope it's on acct of it being inside the most recent update cycle. ( BingoBoingo ? ) << This assessment of local liquidity is indeed the latest update cycle, but local liquidity has been growing over the past month.
17:25 asciilifeform in re the uy1 machine: i'ma set up a realtime systemlog printer for that machine. if there's a physical problem with the iron, i expect we will find the culprit shortly.
17:25 mircea_popescu diana_coman ikr.
17:26 mircea_popescu on a long enough timeline the unlikely becomes certainty\
17:26 diana_coman if not ONE unlikely then..another! lol
17:27 mircea_popescu aha
17:28 diana_coman what is the duration of this update cycle or what is it exactly?
17:30 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886575 <--> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886486
17:30 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 22:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there can be no question of 'sharing rack', it's entirely nonstarter. what there are, are half-height racks, in which most of the other customers of that bldg live. but they are bad deal, iirc they only cost slightly less than a full 42 height.
17:30 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 19:01 trinque: I'd be shocked if you needed more than that 10/100.
17:31 BingoBoingo <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, but how *many* accounts did you message out of how many in the db, over what time, what filter(s) did you use and with what results? << The way I've been walking by hand involves looking at the users online list most forums helpfully still offer and going from there. Recently I've taken to looking for "I got banned from X turdservice" threads and blogs then posting targeted copy as demonstrated in one of the
17:31 BingoBoingo links earlier mentioned. At present there is one ongoing conversation as a result of this.
17:31 trinque and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886481
17:31 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 18:53 BingoBoingo: trinque: I don't have concrete plans. The major part of the DC cost is pipe rather than rack. Renegotiating for less pipe with the datacenter would change the costs we are basing our colocation price off of as well.
17:32 diana_coman BingoBoingo, did you talk to your tech about automating any part of that?
17:33 diana_coman and I still don't know how many...
17:33 diana_coman BingoBoingo, is your colocation price not competitive?
17:34 trinque diana_coman: would reducing the download capacity to 10mbps harm your use case any?
17:35 asciilifeform diana_coman: the painful troof is that's riotously 'uncompetitive' vs. ~the reich~, where 'same' price gets you 100mbit/bidirectional ~per machine~
17:36 asciilifeform this item is on acct of the geography, and i do not presently know of a cure
17:36 diana_coman trinque, my personal one no
17:36 asciilifeform trinque: ~90% of the time the pipe is no saturated. the issue is burst capacity.
17:36 asciilifeform *not
17:37 trinque issue for whom
17:37 BingoBoingo <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, did you talk to your tech about automating any part of that? << I have not directly requested that no. There was the conversation that lead to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880371 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881538
17:37 a111 Logged on 2018-12-12 19:41 BingoBoingo: ^ Any awk ninjas want to try this on a few forums?
17:37 a111 Logged on 2018-12-18 19:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wants to hire BingoBoingo to do it ; BingoBoingo is looking around for "awk experts" to do it. meanwhile, danielpbarron is out there doing it.
17:37 asciilifeform trinque: i cannot speak for other users, but i saturate it regularly when i make backups
17:39 asciilifeform trinque: i'm entirely in agreement with your earlier pt re 'i'd rather have thin pipe than no pipe'. the q is whether the currently unborn subscribers, who are needed in order to go into the black, will agree.
17:39 diana_coman trinque, for s.mg it's less straightforward and it's not even just a matter of backups only; at any rate, it's at best "starvation mode" so I don't see how it really gets pizarro out of trouble; so far it's not even clear that *price* is the trouble re converting really; is it?
17:39 diana_coman not to mention that it sounds to me that you'll potentially lose precisely those customers you want
17:40 trinque don't know if y'all have a realistic perception of what sales takes, and "I'm gonna sell my way into the black in two months" sounds like.
17:41 asciilifeform ftr , and in re whole thread, asciilifeform is entirely all ears re any thoughts trinque , diana_coman , mircea_popescu , et al, have re subj of what gotta be done in order to reach the black.
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17:42 trinque negotiate with existing customers re: what cuts they'll suffer, *if* they will, cut, and roll everything you can to actual, aggressive sales efforts
17:42 trinque barring that the thing's dead.
17:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform enumerate the db of each forum touching upon internet, message each single user, report on results.
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17:42 asciilifeform trinque: why mention only cuts , but not price ? thing's riotously underpriced currently.
17:42 mircea_popescu should've been done last jan, or last feb, or last mar, or last apr, or last etc.
17:43 trinque asciilifeform: if you try to reach black by multiplying my bill, I'll just leave.
17:43 mircea_popescu the notion whereby "i've been doing something by hand in lieu of what i'm supposed to do" passing muster is not unlike the case where you send girl to buy you shoes and she comes by with "i love you alf" papier mache "8th march -- mother's day!!" gift.
17:43 mircea_popescu what is this, retard school ? we don't want "projects" in the playdo sense.
17:43 diana_coman myeah, that "into the black in two months" seems to me weird here; the trouble is not even "in two months" but at all; because it has been way more than 2 months and if it keeps going as is, I doubt 10 months would make a difference
17:44 asciilifeform trinque: enlighten me, what exactly price is republican hosting worth to trinque ? is it '10% over what amazon costs' ? or 'the number i've grown used to?' what's the calculation there
17:45 trinque since I still host everything important elsewhere, not as much as if I thought it'd be around.
17:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform whatever the calculation is, it's not gonna be "im just gonna subsizide whatever-you-guise-feel-like"
17:45 trinque and since the "fair price" is going to be "what we need" ^ aha
17:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'd expect not
17:46 mircea_popescu yes, there's an argument to be made for "help out fellow republicans". fine and good, but them fellow republicans'd better be out there converting the world to the republic.
17:46 mircea_popescu because if they are not -- guess what, bezos also isn't.
17:46 mircea_popescu and i hear he has a wife to support, as well.
17:46 mircea_popescu the shaver shaves universally -- it's not one shaver for phf and a diff one shaver for pizarro.
17:46 mircea_popescu if you opt to not tell people to come in -- you opt to be out of here.
17:47 mircea_popescu tmsr isn't some cool secret project for five dorks under some covers in a pillow fort somewhere. tmsr is the rule of the world and mandatory at all junctures, wtf.
17:48 mircea_popescu first, you tell them to come over, then you start nuking everyone else, and on in this manner. what, are we fucking around ?
17:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how does this square with the http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#selection-23.0-31.1 item ?
17:48 mircea_popescu "my five year plan for pizarro is that by the time we're done with the first three it'll not be physically possible to do such a thing as 'host a website' anywhere else."\
17:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what dun square ?
17:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the item where mircea_popescu decided that heathendom is ~irredeemably stupid, and that ~all the folx who belong in, are already in
17:49 mircea_popescu last i heard you're not welcome in the us congress, will still get fined if you park in the main entryway to courthouse.
17:50 mircea_popescu let them pay pizarro, nobody said they're gonna be making policy.
17:52 trinque BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886484 << I was looking for a calculation on your part, so you have something to negotiate with customers.
17:52 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 18:57 BingoBoingo: Well the numbers as of last January http://bingology.net/2018/01/18/datacenter-costs/
17:54 trinque "capacity will temporarily be X while BingoBoingo Ys, this gives T time left to P. customers will meanwhile accumulate S shares per billing cycle of diminished capacity" as a rough model of what I'm talking about.
17:55 trinque or y'all can proceed valiantly into the void, whichever you prefer
17:56 mircea_popescu customer-shares program ? why ?
17:57 trinque it's a model of a negotiation, not proposing a specific, other than not sitting around thinking about how lordly we are while we die
17:57 trinque if customers wont take the diminished capacity that's basically all else pizarro has that has (if very) hypothetical value
17:57 trinque with which to persuade for the cut
17:59 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: imho trinque is right , tomorrow morning is the time to have a talk with the dc rep re bw pricing function ( and post the output to our www asap )
18:01 mircea_popescu trinque what customers ?
18:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that your dc respects you is probably your only asset now. giving that away will yield what, "a clearer situation" ?
18:02 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform that your dc respects you is probably your only asset now. giving that away will yield what, "a clearer situation" ? << This is my worry about "renegotiating" with the DC
18:02 asciilifeform hm
18:03 BingoBoingo Even if I frame it as "we aren't utilizing the whole pipe", they are going to smell blood
18:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: is your thought that attempts to cut cost are entirely wrong thrust ?
18:03 mircea_popescu yes, my thought is that if you can't make sales with spare capacity you're not going to make sales without spare capacity.
18:03 * BingoBoingo going to take a walk while the rain's stopped and try to unload some of this cortisol
18:03 mircea_popescu moreover that if your pet duck is eating its feet it's not gonna become a drake anytime soon.
18:04 diana_coman when is the time for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886626 ?
18:04 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 22:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform enumerate the db of each forum touching upon internet, message each single user, report on results.
18:06 trinque mircea_popescu: most hosting is biased towards upload anyway, and there's ample capacity on that end to sell.
18:06 trinque what was it, they paid 3x for the symmetric?
18:07 mircea_popescu anyways, is the situation here is that mod6 is quietly opting out while you're explicitly opting out of the refinancing you both were very excited to do a year or so ago, back when i was rebuffing ben_vulpes with "the only thing another cap round buys you is not havign to do any work for a longer interval" ?
18:08 mircea_popescu trinque i'm not that in touch, but iirc it was a good deal as symmetric.
18:08 BingoBoingo A symmetric pipe would have been much more expensive
18:08 trinque ah, that's the error then, I thought it was already the symmetric.
18:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mod6's nerves gave out and he went on sabbatical w/out yet having said whether, and to what extent, he will participate .
18:11 asciilifeform currently he still stands as a 50% owner.
18:17 feedbot http://trilema.com/2019/nu-mai-avem-titluri-de-voiaj-reveniti-miine/ << Trilema -- Nu mai avem titluri de voiaj ; reveniti miine!
18:19 * asciilifeform will return in ~1h
18:20 diana_coman asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886623 -> automate 1st stages of reach out at a very minimum, run it, analyse it
18:20 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 22:41 asciilifeform: ftr , and in re whole thread, asciilifeform is entirely all ears re any thoughts trinque , diana_coman , mircea_popescu , et al, have re subj of what gotta be done in order to reach the black.
18:21 mod6 I'm still committed to the 5 BTC promised a while ago.
18:21 mod6 Dinner time, bbl.
~ 25 minutes ~
18:46 mircea_popescu so ok, if mod6 is committed to the prev 5btc and asciilifeform meets it, what exactly is pizarro's financial problem ?
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18:46 mircea_popescu seems rather the problem is "how to spend tens of thousands of dollars with a roi" rather than "wut do april"
18:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if pizarro can say "talked to 985,553 heathens this month, here's the script, here's the results breakdown, here's the more interesting lulz/notions/ideas" it stands in a WAY the fuck better position than what trinque above perceived may well degenerate into a simple "gimme".
18:50 mircea_popescu because i can see why someone'd go, "eh, whatever, thirty heathens to the cent, i don't even mind paying". as per ye even older http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-21#1026639
18:50 a111 Logged on 2015-02-21 01:19 mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash"
18:57 trinque then the question becomes why BingoBoingo is writing about death when capitalized through his perceived deadline
18:57 trinque derps gotta talk to each other
~ 19 minutes ~
19:17 BingoBoingo My inclination was not to take the earlier committment for granted and underline the need to start working out a plan to achieve a positive ROI because I can't man alone it. Having sidechannel discussions outside this forum has been demonstrated -EV in the past. I am also wary of having strategic discussions outside of the channel where most of the republic's strategic and commercial competence sits.
↖
19:31 BingoBoingo Anyways, I was feeling overdue for an appointment with the sharp rotating blades of the immutable machine.
19:31 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886685 << i'ma match mod6 . and then see to it that mircea_popescu's advices are actually followed, even if ( and it appears that yes if ) i gotta run the spamatrons with own hands & feet
19:31 a111 Logged on 2019-01-13 23:46 mircea_popescu: so ok, if mod6 is committed to the prev 5btc and asciilifeform meets it, what exactly is pizarro's financial problem ?
19:32 mircea_popescu this is a perfectly valid metric, "derps reached per bitcent". much like bw or w/e else, it's a measurement, yes.
19:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: also on subj, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5gd63/?raw=true
19:36 feedbot http://bimbo.club/2019/01/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-i/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714 - Part I.
↖
19:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tqDlJ/?raw=true
19:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: danke schon!
~ 35 minutes ~
20:17 mircea_popescu doesn't that look suspicious.
↖
20:19 * BingoBoingo putting on shoes. asciilifeform is there anything in particular you want me to check for beyond what I reported yesterday?
20:26 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the seals.
20:30 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Aite.
20:36 trinque BingoBoingo: looks like uy1 rebooted again?
20:36 mircea_popescu we were just talking about that.
20:36 trinque hrm
20:38 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: plox to switch on with chassic open and determine if fans moving; and clean the latter. ty
20:38 asciilifeform *chassis
20:40 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: bios setup of that box also contains internal log, which will report if thermal trip. plox to examine.
20:41 asciilifeform also BingoBoingo plox to connect kvm hoses to selfsame box, and kvm power to mains, before you leave the cage.
20:46 mircea_popescu wb
20:48 lobbes ty. (my irssi is on teh uy1)
20:51 mircea_popescu i'm kinda curious what comes out of this.
20:54 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886692 << I've been digesting your initial blawg post, and then that last thread. If I were to summarize what I'd read I'd say the short-term path is clear: start automating, and then reporting on metrics gathered. In the best case it seems the only way to generate enough sales. In the worst case you will have at least produced some meaningful statistics
20:54 a111 Logged on 2019-01-14 00:17 BingoBoingo: My inclination was not to take the earlier committment for granted and underline the need to start working out a plan to achieve a positive ROI because I can't man alone it. Having sidechannel discussions outside this forum has been demonstrated -EV in the past. I am also wary of having strategic discussions outside of the channel where most of the republic's strategic and commercial competence sits.
20:54 lobbes it would seem like BingoBoingo's and my own (albiet limited) experiences illustrate the futile and time-wasting nature of sifting through the meat pile by hand >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/sales-report-june-2018/
21:04 mircea_popescu re http://bingology.net/2019/01/11/more-lessons-learned-pizarro-entering-2019/#selection-51.13-51.130 specifically (ie, "no hardware to sell"), is this actually the case ? i thought there was some overcapacity
21:07 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo re ". Even when I manage a piece of evangelical Republican writing well received by the targeted community as measured by 'likes'... the reception warm reception is fuctionally empty." << the problem with this is the single-flower-spring issue. if you wish t go this route your measurements are in the dozens of accounts, spitting forth 100s of daily posts supporting each other across the whole "niche".
21:07 mircea_popescu you don't do that, you don't get anywhere.
21:08 mircea_popescu understand there's no such thing as "a liver". either it's the whole enchilada, liver, stomach, bone, muscles, skin, all the organs -- or else nothing at all.
21:18 mircea_popescu in other news, libgnarl.a is a great name indeed!
21:26 mircea_popescu re http://pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ : leaving aside how annoying it is i can't select, and how it's the case trying to comment timesout : it seems the case pizarro ~made~ about 2 bitcoin during november, on the strength of its fiat-denominated holdings, taking it from being worth ~14 to being worth ~17 bitcoin ?
21:27 mircea_popescu are these factual ? because ~both~ of these would be ~significant~ accomplishments, neh ? shareholders put in 11, if memory serves, so they realised a 60% roi over the interval ?
21:27 mircea_popescu it strikes me as the height of strange that the balance sheet seems to paint a rosy picture whereas management communication is bleak and dour. these shouldn't contradict so, which is it ?
21:37 mircea_popescu in other news, ffa chapters are such a pleasure. it seems to me by now ffa has become such a largest-rock in the loperos garden...
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21:37 mircea_popescu kudos.
21:39 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Fans clean, all spin. Palpable air movement in and out of the chassis. Seals in tact on arrival, new seals deployed. KVM connected. I did not manage to find the internal log in the BIOS.
21:42 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886726 << very happy to hear that mircea_popescu enjoyed reading. i've put a good bit of sweat in recent times into keeping these pieces short & edible.
21:42 a111 Logged on 2019-01-14 02:37 mircea_popescu: in other news, ffa chapters are such a pleasure. it seems to me by now ffa has become such a largest-rock in the loperos garden...
21:43 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ty, i'ma instrument the thing for realtime logging soon as i wake up ( about to turn in, and would rather not break things when half awake )
~ 21 minutes ~
22:04 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> it strikes me as the height of strange that the balance sheet seems to paint a rosy picture whereas management communication is bleak and dour. these shouldn't contradict so, which is it ? << The cash flow situation concerns me. Our fiat denominated holdings have appreciated. As you assessed earlier our primary asset is a healthy customer relationship with the (very rare) independent datacenter. Maintaining that
22:04 BingoBoingo relationship is also the largest of our recurring fiat denominated expenses. Sitting here my thinking latched onto present cash flow situation as the datacenter's goodwill isn't very liquid.
22:05 mircea_popescu i suppose.
22:20 asciilifeform meanwhile, elsewhere, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2963&cpage=1#comment-19774
22:27 mircea_popescu i happen to agree with the fellow, "partial order" (as in, the term of art) is specifically why not actually breaking anything.
22:32 mircea_popescu and ahh, what a joy to be catched up!
~ 21 minutes ~
22:53 mircea_popescu in other arcana : i have here a copy of trb that has died a mysterious death on dec 31st. the process itself hasn't returned, ps aux lists it as expected, however the last time it touched any files was two weeks ago, nor does a call to getinfo ever return.
↖ ↖
22:54 mircea_popescu is this a first ?
~ 15 minutes ~
23:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what if anyffing is in the log tail ?
23:10 mircea_popescu it's own debug log ? a buncha disconnecting node x
23:11 asciilifeform ending dec31? or continues
23:11 mircea_popescu ending then
23:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik yer the pioneer , this is 1st such case on record.
23:13 mircea_popescu i weep not hjaving ran this particular instance in debug, so i can't see where it's looping, or wtf
23:13 asciilifeform i assume mircea_popescu already checked that disk wasnt full
23:13 mircea_popescu but what the FUCK can i do, run everything in debug, maybe 3-5-12 layers deep ?
23:13 asciilifeform 1 suffices , lol
23:13 mircea_popescu this anger has led me to re-read ye olde http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/ ; only to discover i'm ~still~ not satisfied
23:14 mircea_popescu "why didn't it sell with the rest ?" still haunts me.
23:14 * asciilifeform wishes that these happend on ~his~ boxen !
23:15 mircea_popescu i'd like a computer where i didn't have this sort of problem.
↖
23:15 asciilifeform heh i have a whole www about these..
23:15 mircea_popescu "something happened -- nobody knows when or why or how. would you like fries with that ?"
23:16 asciilifeform unixtardation, crashism, bigger calamity than pb in petrol, or in pipes, or 100 chernobyls
23:18 mircea_popescu here i sit and stare into the terminal, not knowing what to do. this happens absolutely never in my life, except when dealing with fucking computers.
23:20 asciilifeform in the past , asciilifeform encountered cases like this and resorted to dumping physical mem images. but doesnt expect mircea_popescu to do this
23:20 asciilifeform ( aand they're a 1st class bitch to get anyffing useful out of )
23:21 mircea_popescu i don't expect anything useful could be had in a timeframe shorter than re-doing all of bitcoin. it's a large box etc.
23:22 asciilifeform unixtardation is an item i'd like to live to see an end put to, verily.
23:22 asciilifeform sorta whole orig thrust behind asciilifeform's archaeologies, experiments in old days, fpga room, etc
23:23 mircea_popescu myeah.
23:24 mircea_popescu and there it goes : happily eats ctrl-c, OF COURSE, cuz why the fuck have any sort of notion of human priviledge or anything, terminal has its own mind, right. but if sigkilled dies peacibly and then restarts as if nothing had happened.
23:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: any sign of oom, or anyffin else peculiar, in last hours of log ?
23:26 mircea_popescu absolutely nothing.
23:26 asciilifeform nuts.
23:26 mircea_popescu i ~suspect~ but obviously have no way of proving that its netpipe flickered and it never recovered.
23:26 asciilifeform this dun normally nail the process tho
23:26 mircea_popescu no, i know
23:27 mircea_popescu besides i have testing for this specific, "whyat happens with net interface unreliability", never found this particular issue
23:27 mircea_popescu but then agai nthe space of shit is SO VAST it's not feasible to exhaustively test.
23:27 asciilifeform very handy test tho
23:28 asciilifeform i've planted noad under gsm modem, for instance, surprisingly - worked
23:28 * asciilifeform bbl, food
23:28 mircea_popescu it's important, really cornerstone of all "made by vbasic/java/etc minds and has network access" items.
23:28 mircea_popescu no offense to Mocky_ , whose brain works fine.
~ 22 minutes ~
23:51 mircea_popescu back to the truly irksome :
23:51 mircea_popescu phf pre-symbolics the "theorems" were "how do i computer" in general. those guys weren't playing around with custom fpga in their garage that they failed to sell. they were basically figuring out how to build a von neumann machine that can do things, which they did
23:51 mircea_popescu mircea_popescu this part is fine. now, why did they fail to a) band together and b) control, deliberately, the product. they did a very strict anti-a and anti-b. why! the only reason mit even exists in this picture is because the dozen was "omfg, we DID figure it out, now quick, find someone TO PROTECT US FROM OUR HAVING FIGURED IT OUT!!1" holy shit who thinks like this and why do they.
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