Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-01-25 | 2017-01-27 → ↓
00:53 asciilifeform to continue the old thionyl thread: in other 'useful usg-mil substances asciilifeform had nfi existed!111!' : 'stabilant 22'
00:53 mircea_popescu i coulda sworn was im logs
00:54 asciilifeform not afaik.
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
02:06 mircea_popescu !!rated adlai
02:06 deedbot mircea_popescu rated adlai 1 at 2016/02/17 21:22:20 << alf's bff. nolispo.
02:06 mircea_popescu !!rate adlai -10 Deliberately useless idiot.
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02:06 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/eKlY0/?raw=true
02:07 mircea_popescu !!v B87E2BD9BA6B6CAD2A58C7198027894B28FF7834F547AEA8D5EE89D9D673F3B6
02:07 deedbot mircea_popescu updated rating of adlai from 1 to -10 << Deliberately useless idiot.
02:07 mircea_popescu To be clear re ^ : dude's been trying to attack the republic for over a year by now through the remarkably idiotic procedure of speaking as if he has some weight. Because who knows, maybe we're all dumb dumb and this contextual approach actually works, we'll end up thinking he's somebody because he's been acting as if he were for so long, everyone forgot he isn't.
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02:07 mircea_popescu Let it be plainly stated that you treat this sort of subhuman scum as if it were a person at your own peril. It won't benefit by your sacrifice ; you will sooner or later end up in the sad position of discovering you no longer have a soul.
~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~
03:22 mircea_popescu ahahaha fucktards at ietf actually put 451 into their forked version of the internet standard.
03:29 mircea_popescu https://twitter.com/simon_penn_r << ifanyone still has a twitter see if that status451.com dude wants to come over say hi ?
~ 45 minutes ~
04:14 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606714 << if the thing was implemented as discussed (e.g. http://trilema.com/2015/a-proper-social-site-for-the-bdsm-community/#comment-117298) it would indeed not be centralised. or if it ended up relying on one central node, that node would be more like a passive store of pgp'd blobs. not to say that i believe this is the one true future and salvation,
04:14 a111 Logged on 2017-01-25 20:55 asciilifeform: wtf is the point of making umpteenth centralized arsebook.
04:14 Framedragger but the thing *could* be developed orthogonally to gossipd's efforts, which is nice.
04:15 mircea_popescu iirc it was cognate with gossipd.
04:16 Framedragger but the originally conceived idea of a site which serves 'smart' JS which does pgp must be disposed of. i even looked into the state of the art in pinning (say, JS) web resources in html5 so the browser can be sure it's being served the same stuff, but it's ~undoable because the whole browserstack is rotten (and obvs JS doubly so)
04:16 mircea_popescu truth be told it's not directly clear there's not actually a future for both insta and letter models (ie, irc and webforums, for instance, or phone calls AND mailing lists/bbsen) irrespective of historical poor implementation.
04:16 Framedragger mircea_popescu: i suppose so, at least the latest concept iteration as developed in the comments
04:16 Framedragger yeah!
04:17 mircea_popescu Framedragger hey, you've... not exactly learned a lot, but actually examined a lot in the past few months huh!
04:17 mircea_popescu anyway, yes, it's quite unclear to me that gossipd need be related to this other thing
04:18 Framedragger i'm like that (useless) teacher in kobo abe's "woman in the dunes", walking around the desert and examining bugs :) one day i'll fall into a pit which houses a house and a woman, and i won't want to get out
04:18 Framedragger yeah
04:19 Framedragger (nice short story btw)
04:19 mircea_popescu lol
04:22 Framedragger anyway, maybe one day someone will elucidate me why -10 ratings is a thing for humans who have done a magicaltux
04:22 Framedragger who have *not* done*
04:24 mircea_popescu i'm satisfied in my mental representation of the fellow and won't be changing it. that's another name for certainty.
04:29 Framedragger i suppose this ties into the "view WoT rating as a representation of degree of certainty" approach, aha.
04:31 mircea_popescu well yes
~ 1 hours 58 minutes ~
06:29 Framedragger http://www.burojansen.nl/bvd-aivd/dutch-secret-service-tries-to-recruit-tor-admin/ << student getting recruited to spy on kommunities
~ 17 minutes ~
06:47 trinque dutchies just wishing they were invited to the NSA, GHQ, BND party
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06:47 trinque also good morning gentlemen
06:55 Framedragger a fine morning to yourself! i see you rise early
07:04 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1606932 << the multiple keys thing keeps slipping out of your model of V. "this is my found 'liquishit' key".
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07:04 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 02:25 asciilifeform: if there is literally no way to memorialize the fact that i took $item off a dead nazi, or dug up from sunken atlantis, rather than wrote it personally -- said item will have to be done without. (unless someone else in your wot does the imho monumentally idiotic act of 'adopting it as own child')
07:06 trinque beyond that, what kind of dishonest hanno shitbag would negrate you for an item you clearly picked up in the forest, and if he doesn't know you well enough to know what your work looks like, has no business rating you.
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07:07 trinque Framedragger: I like to start working when the other fleshy meatsacks are turned off
07:07 trinque quieter
07:08 davout "l'avenir appartient à ceux qui se lèvent tôt"
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~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
08:37 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607021 << iirc d00d is one of those hard-drinking fellas; there was precedent in curing'em
08:37 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 07:07 mircea_popescu: To be clear re ^ : dude's been trying to attack the republic for over a year by now through the remarkably idiotic procedure of speaking as if he has some weight. Because who knows, maybe we're all dumb dumb and this contextual approach actually works, we'll end up thinking he's somebody because he's been acting as if he were for so long, everyone forgot he isn't.
08:38 asciilifeform but granted, it is an unlikely thing.
08:46 * adlai doesn't drink much anymore, but apparently mircea can still smell the solvent, like a satisfied homeopathic patient
08:47 adlai the ready solution being to drink more (of the right fluids), talk less (of the wasted-breath variety), and maybe not as much in mircea's direction.
08:48 asciilifeform adlai: consider that it is not obvious that you no longer drink.
08:49 * adlai is not a teetotaler in most fields, despite the expulpated exhortations.
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08:49 asciilifeform adlai: also consider taking up useful work.
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08:50 asciilifeform as befits a literate d00d. write a vtron. or pick up an actual unsolved problem from the logz.
08:51 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607048 << i did not forget it, trinque , but it is a very bitter pill, as i suspect folx will discover for themselves when they actually take said pill
08:51 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 12:04 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1606932 << the multiple keys thing keeps slipping out of your model of V. "this is my found 'liquishit' key".
08:52 trinque do elaborate
08:52 * adlai doesn't like publishing incomplete work, even if it's useful for cave divering archaeologists. asciilifeform might be the first to see a useful turd, if one should drop. until then, radio silence.
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08:52 trinque though I favor http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607050
08:52 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 12:06 trinque: beyond that, what kind of dishonest hanno shitbag would negrate you for an item you clearly picked up in the forest, and if he doesn't know you well enough to know what your work looks like, has no business rating you.
08:53 asciilifeform trinque: recall the 'tulpa' garden of horrors.
08:54 asciilifeform trinque: for 'you clearly picked up in the forest' to hold, said fact must be clearly and unambiguously memorialized.
08:54 trinque if you bring i.e. tinyscheme into a v-tree, is it not your cross to bear?
08:55 trinque could always leave an expository comment in a file in your patch, but I don't know that it holds that "found item" is less the v-author's fault
08:56 asciilifeform trinque: see the 'wife vs cow' example
08:56 trinque there is the tulpa garden of horrors, and then there is the "everyone perpetually avoids blame" one
08:56 asciilifeform trinque: that is the actual risk.
08:56 trinque I understood it, but then we are after diminishing the standing of cows in the world
08:57 trinque there is a risk in giving them any place at all
08:58 asciilifeform trinque: realize that current infrastructure is ~100% 'cow'. witness that no one has signed off on, e.g., linux, or gcc, in 'own child' mode, and i will say that you would have to be drinking, to even consider doing so
09:00 trinque we're discussing what's currently in a v-tree, though
09:00 trinque ultimately the surgeon does take full responsibility for the life of the patient, even when the patient is 99% likely to bleed out
09:00 trinque and in those cases I don't think any sane person faults him when the patient dies
09:01 trinque only if someone were blindly applying patches if sealed, and blindly respecting ratings without regard to real relationship, would there be a problem.
09:02 asciilifeform trinque: surgeon in real life makes ~astonishingly~ detailed record of ~what he found~ vs ~what he did~
09:02 trinque I don't dispute the need of the record
09:02 trinque what comes to mind there is a long scroll within the project
09:02 trinque which each vpatch must (by convention) update
09:02 trinque history.txt
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09:03 trinque room for as much rationale and backstory there as is required
09:03 asciilifeform trinque: has a promisetronic flavour to it
09:04 trinque conventions in society are just that; nothing protocolic prevents me from shitting on the floor
09:04 trinque where is it enforced that WoT ratings mean what they do, other than in the minds of thinking men
09:04 asciilifeform tru
09:05 trinque and then when I shit, nobody seals my patch, and eventually I'm known as a floor shitter, and nobody regards my seal
09:06 asciilifeform trinque: the real trouble comes when somebody shits and no one (including, often , the shitter) even notices until , years later, they step in it.
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09:06 trinque example as it pertains to the history.txt ?
09:07 asciilifeform docs diverge from code routinely, and it is far from always the case that someone notices and corrects immediately.
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09:08 trinque aside from rationale given in history.txt, an author is giving his patch "without reservation"
09:09 trinque scope starts from the broadest possible assertion of "this is, so help me god" and only narrows if somebody says
09:09 trinque which doesn't obligate anyone to accept their narrowing, either
09:11 trinque reactor 99947 vaporized the king upon inspection. who's asking the engineer what his rationale was?
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09:11 asciilifeform trinque: understand, i ~like~ docs, version histories, literate comments, and use'em in own work. but hey do not solve the problem from subj thread in a permanent and unambiguous way.
09:11 asciilifeform *they
09:12 asciilifeform trinque: a situation where literally nobody is willing to maintain reactor, is a very real risk.
09:13 asciilifeform we are quite close to it even now.
09:14 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607066 << i can certainly understand this viewpoint, but have come to also discover (and appreciate the fact) that tmsr does actually tolerate 'incomplete work' if it's useful, and provide gainful feedback.
09:14 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 13:52 adlai doesn't like publishing incomplete work, even if it's useful for cave divering archaeologists. asciilifeform might be the first to see a useful turd, if one should drop. until then, radio silence.
09:15 asciilifeform there are two fundamentally different, for all time, types of code.
09:15 trinque asciilifeform: seems the problem there has as much to do with the fact that a gentleman would have to dedicate a very large part of his life to making further, sweeping improvements to the trb codebase
09:15 asciilifeform 1) code that you wrote.
09:15 trinque as whether anyone wants to sign
09:15 asciilifeform 2) code others wrote
09:16 trinque what is concerning is importing the github open source mentality of "not own code, not my fault"
09:16 asciilifeform (2) can, with rivers of sweat, be -- theoretically-- subsumed into (1), but most folx who think that they have done this for a nontrivial program, are deluding themselves
09:16 trinque I have seen this in every company I worked for in earlier years. guy grabs some open source turd, then when it breaks he cries "not my fault! just found it!"
09:17 asciilifeform trinque: my aim in writing 'v' was to enable 'my code -- my responsibility '
09:17 trinque indeed.
09:17 asciilifeform imho this necessarily goes with 'not my code -- not my responsibility '.
09:18 trinque what will prevent perpetual notmycode-ism
09:18 asciilifeform there is no mechanical way of preventing idiocy.
09:19 trinque there we agree wholly
09:20 asciilifeform trinque: consider the trb-genesis as a successful use case of the thing i am asking for.
09:20 thestringpuller !~isup http://danielpbarron.com/
09:20 jhvh1 thestringpuller: It's not just you. danielpbarron.com/ appears to be down.
09:21 trinque ^ guy said something about migrating it
09:21 trinque semi-relatedly, deedbot will be catching up on blocks for a bit this morning. I shut it down earlier to move old db files to a slower drive.
09:21 asciilifeform trinque: in that instance, a number of people were able to sign some code without taking ~any~ authorship responsibility, but strictly to proclaim historical authenticity and provenance,
09:21 asciilifeform .
09:21 trinque we also agree on the necessity of being able to make that statement
09:21 asciilifeform all i ask is that said act not require a collective head nod.
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09:22 trinque but as I see it, the statement was made adequately
09:23 asciilifeform trinque: now consider mircea_popescu's objection to the way i structured shiva patches.
09:28 thestringpuller Curb Your Enthusiasm is back after a 6 year hiatus. Larry David says he was "busy with other stuff"
09:29 thestringpuller ^- for the Seinfeld fans, but they probably already know. (I was happily surprised).
09:31 asciilifeform thestringpuller: planning to join adlai?
09:33 asciilifeform trinque: the specific cure to 'not my fault, i Just Found It' is specifically the human-readable comments. which i included plenty of , including asciiart jolly roger, in shiva glue patch.
09:34 asciilifeform it was quite clearly marked as a mortally dangerous thing, for laboratory use only.
09:35 asciilifeform (my original aim with tinyscheme was strictly to weld an interactive debugger into own trbtron.)
09:36 asciilifeform the problem, hypothetically, begins years from now, when i am living in nazi dome in antarctica, or long dead, etc. but at any rate moved past all of this; and other folx pick up shiva and decide that it is now 'safe'.
09:36 jurov asciilifeform: will there ever be a "works as described, use in production" item in this vein?
09:36 jurov i suspect never
09:37 asciilifeform jurov: which item specifically
09:37 asciilifeform and what means 'production'
09:37 jurov anything NOT "marked as a mortally dangerous thing"
09:37 asciilifeform is trb in use 'in production' somewhere ?
09:38 asciilifeform the answer is unknown to me
09:38 asciilifeform iirc mircea_popescu still does not use trb to touch actual megacoinz
09:38 trinque depends if you consider deedbot production use
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09:38 trinque but it has worked rather well there
09:39 asciilifeform trinque: a good chunk of the appeal, i dare say, of trb, is the ~pedigree~
09:40 Framedragger ...and so it is that tmsr uses elliptic curve crypto in its production :)
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09:40 Framedragger (sorry, sorry.)
09:40 asciilifeform Framedragger: there is, at this very moment, a rotting dead groundhog under asciilifeform's shed.
09:41 asciilifeform does it follow that ' tmsr uses dead groundhogs in production ' ?
09:41 Framedragger i'm sorry but that's false equivalence. EC crypto is used in timestamping service which is used for actual business transactions. not as trivial as dead passive animal under house
09:42 asciilifeform the rotting beast is anything but passive from my pov.
09:42 Framedragger does it tell you where to send money?
09:43 asciilifeform if it were larger it would most assuredly cause me to spend considerable money to arrange its removal.
09:43 asciilifeform but Framedragger has a larger and imho relevant point, the ecc in trb is part of the world-as-we-found-it
09:44 asciilifeform and trb-genesis let it be CLEARLY and PERMANENTLY marked as not-child-of-mine, for each of the signatories.
09:44 asciilifeform because unfortunately lenin was right when he wrote 'we build new world from the planks of the old shithouse we blew up, not from imported brick'
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09:44 Framedragger (yes and for that reason V is an insanely useful and (i'm coming to realize) very important tool.)
09:46 asciilifeform Framedragger: understand, i would like to live to see the day when we use NOTHING at all that is not from the wot.
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09:46 asciilifeform not silicon, not chairs, knives, forks.
09:46 asciilifeform but until then , need tools that let folx take MEANINGFUL responsibility, rather than volunteering at every turn to hang for things that they NEVER TOOK PART IN
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09:47 asciilifeform ( or to have to choose between this, and silence/cowardice )
09:48 asciilifeform in this vein mircea_popescu's answer '1 man, 1000 keys' is probably the closest thing to practical solution proposed, but imho it does not eliminate the problem, it is still something that must be lived with
09:49 asciilifeform and it is worth discussing ~how~ to best live with it.
09:51 asciilifeform (and i will also note, mircea_popescu's method puts serious mechanical stress on a part of tmsr that is at present time not well-developed -- navigation of elaborate, deep, and TIME-VARIANT relationships between wot inhabitants)
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09:52 asciilifeform main risk becomes the one described in http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ .
09:53 Framedragger a timestamped and signed wot (navigable via time axis) may be one of those few technical tools within wot management which may actually be helpful :)
09:53 asciilifeform iirc mircea_popescu did not like idea of signed wot ratings.
09:54 asciilifeform but as i see it, if you are going to have the 'multiple personalities' thing, you MUST have signed ratings.
09:54 mircea_popescu there's whole discussion re that. you got teh link ?
09:54 asciilifeform aha! i've been digging for it for 10min nao
09:54 trinque ahaha, I was searching for it, got alf just now as first result
09:54 mircea_popescu lol
09:55 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576975 << possibly this
09:55 a111 Logged on 2016-12-02 23:36 mircea_popescu: and for this reason ratings can't have to be signed - they can never be opposed to the maker.
09:55 mircea_popescu this is the more recent ; there was one also illo tempore but w/e.
09:55 mircea_popescu anyway. not that, nor this, leads to "you MUST have signed ratings"
09:56 asciilifeform it isn't a 'you must', but rather 'you can have unsigned-ratings XOR multiple-v-personalities'
09:56 mircea_popescu and you also don't "must have signed gossipd lines", either. there was a mega discussion re that also on gossipd thread
09:56 mircea_popescu not so.
09:57 asciilifeform if you try an' have both, everyone simply fragments into 1,001 'tulpas' and an unsullied and 'never wrong' ceremonial kinglet.
09:57 mircea_popescu and in other news, http://akphoto2.ask.fm/8cb/997d0/d29a/4e8f/9d23/753af0de208c/original/543557.jpg
09:57 asciilifeform while scammers try to play split-list games and unite, with sleigh of hand, their 'not been wrong yet' keys into a Great Hero
09:58 asciilifeform *sleight
09:58 mircea_popescu this is still the case now. and always will be.
09:58 mircea_popescu there isn't a mechanical way out of it.
09:59 asciilifeform there is not. but detection can be easier or harder depending on how wot operates.
09:59 asciilifeform i see 0 reason to make it ANY harder than it has to be.
09:59 asciilifeform i would like to see ~less~ breathing air in the world for the people who do this.
09:59 asciilifeform not more.
09:59 mircea_popescu your "easier" is entirely illusory. every time you try to use levers on a puddle of mud water, you get mud on face AND NAUGHT ELSE.
09:59 mircea_popescu there isn't a mechanical process for levers and swamp water.
10:00 asciilifeform swamps, if we must use this analogy, can be filled.
10:00 asciilifeform (as in mr.t's slogan)
10:00 asciilifeform filled, drained.
10:00 mircea_popescu i understand that you see it stationary and imagine it's glass. it's not glass. it moves in response to your measures.
10:00 mircea_popescu yes, swamps "can be filled", but i'm not ready to shoot you all yet.
10:01 asciilifeform then ought to take an interest in instruments that distinguish, precisely whom to shoot, and when.
10:01 mircea_popescu that's what the wot is!
10:02 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607045 << yeah srsly, sucks to not be five eyes!
10:02 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 11:47 trinque: dutchies just wishing they were invited to the NSA, GHQ, BND party
10:02 asciilifeform not if all acts carrying risk can be laundered off onto an unattributable and unopposable 'tulpa'.
10:02 mircea_popescu i have nfi what some luser must be thinking to join "dutch secret services". it's like joining the new jersey tv station. dude what.
10:02 asciilifeform ('hey that wasn't MY sub-persona, i never signed the rating')
10:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they can be so treated no matter what you do. any attemps you make to "make it impossible" simply break your tool.
10:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: plox to elaborate
10:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you keep trying to design-for-ai. there's no need and no call for that ; moreover no practical way to ever do it. wot permitted me to ascertain enough information to eg behead that adlai schmuck most recently. there's no way "for you to explain how i reasoned to a machine", or even in general, and that doesn't hurt or stop me. moreover if there was such a way, then he'd simply act differently next time. and ther
10:04 mircea_popescu e WILL BE A NEXT TIME.
10:04 mircea_popescu no matter what you do.
10:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't do ai. i do ia.
10:04 asciilifeform ('intelligence amplification')
10:05 mircea_popescu yes but at a cost. and in places you're too used to paying that cost.
10:06 asciilifeform v, for instance, is a classica intelligence amplifier. (if mircea_popescu recalls, asciilifeform resisted actually ~writing~ it, and said, approx., 'a reasonable person ought to be able to Do All Of This In His Head')
10:06 asciilifeform *classical
10:06 mircea_popescu the fundamental problem here is that there's no way to reason in the manner you expect to reason. IF anything about the wot process is opposable to anyone involved ; then the wot process becomes by that measure less useful. no change whatsoever appears in the swamp it's made to confront.
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10:07 mircea_popescu we can study contained examples if you wish, but the general principle is quite undisturbed.
10:08 asciilifeform the reason why asciilifeform listened to mircea_popescu , and actually wrote the tool, is the very real human limitations that exist, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-05#1225522
10:08 a111 Logged on 2015-08-05 13:38 mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".
10:08 mircea_popescu sure.
10:08 asciilifeform and with respect to this, none of us have the meatware to navigate a hypothetical #trilema where 1,000,001 tulpatrons are speaking, instead of 6 d00dz
10:08 mircea_popescu really ?
10:09 mircea_popescu i dunno how much of this is habit. consider for a second the case of the nickname dude, who is currently having a meltdown in my comment section on the apparent expectation that i somehow care what he said and i read the various comments as comming ~from the same one guy~. he actually thinks this ; actually expects me to allocate INDIVIDUALITY on the basis of anonymous. it's almost as if i were to wake up every morning and on
10:09 mircea_popescu the basis of THAT decide i'm waking up in the same place.
10:10 asciilifeform this is one of those things that looks feasible because the contemplated case is 'the same people i work with now, but in different costumes', rather than 'cacophony 50 yrs from now'
10:10 mircea_popescu let me ask you a side question.
10:10 asciilifeform fire away
10:11 mircea_popescu were the girls in the school were asciilifeform went to when he was 12 ever engaged in that procedure where they call up one boy pretending they're $randomgirl who trulyloveshim for the sake of seeing wtf happens next day in school ?
10:11 asciilifeform pretty sure that this was done.
10:12 mircea_popescu so what 50 years from now ?
10:12 asciilifeform it worked in the pre-mobilepnoje era.
10:12 mircea_popescu yes, and oin the pre-phone era they used letters.
10:12 mircea_popescu half of french classical literature is this alone.
10:13 mircea_popescu womenz have identitty issues mkay ? it's not "future 50 years". it's been here forever ; will stay.
10:13 asciilifeform lemme approach from slightly different angle. one of the reasons why wot works as well as it does, is a certain human weakness of malefactors, where they habitually stick to one or a very few persona, and make admissions-against-interest.
10:13 mircea_popescu notreally, no.
10:14 mircea_popescu the wot works entirely unrelatedly to the person examined, that's the point.
10:14 mircea_popescu underlined as such in the wot article too. that's the important point : wot works WITHOUT the person being examined.
10:14 asciilifeform and not only scammers. for all of the annoying habits of, e.g., adlai, i'd still much rather have 1 adlai than to have to perform the calculation of 'is this an adlai-tulpa' every time a new name appears.
10:14 mircea_popescu but why would you care ?
10:14 mircea_popescu i don't distinguish between eg adlai or nubbins ; i haven't allocated a handle ; they're just $dork, whatever.
10:15 asciilifeform because if we have login for n00bz at all, that is a mental cheque that gets written and ends up cashed.
10:15 mircea_popescu to obtain a handle one must do specific things ; if they don't, they don't. i don't give out handles like candy because why would i.
10:15 mircea_popescu to quote celentano, "i already met enough people this month"
10:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not so. do you know the names of all the women you fucked ?
10:15 mircea_popescu who cares.
10:15 mircea_popescu i know names of women ; some of which i've not fucked ; but not on that basis.
10:16 Framedragger (something tells me that mircea_popescu's latest example does not work amazingly well here)
10:16 asciilifeform this is exactly the 'we don't need versionatron!' thread but with asciilifeform's and mircea_popescu's speaking parts reversed.
10:16 mircea_popescu Framedragger which how ?
10:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform tis not!
10:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: argument, seems to me, is that 'keeping track of subpersonalities is free, because mircea_popescu never had problem with it, on account of not ever having to actually do much of it'
10:17 mircea_popescu argument is "keeping track of non-wot-ids is pointless, shouldn't be done"
10:17 Framedragger mircea_popescu: names of women you fucked. i know the names and there aren't too many of 'em. and for some strange indefensible reason i think this applies to many folx here. but this is a tangent
10:18 asciilifeform Framedragger: use example of 'women you bought coffee from' if better fits.
10:18 Framedragger suresure!
10:18 asciilifeform (in usa at least they for some unknown reason have name tags attached)
10:18 mircea_popescu Framedragger but the example shows ~shouldn't~ not ~doesn't~.
10:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform suddenly that reason not so unknown.
10:19 mircea_popescu usg.starbucks doing its part to fight the "rapey mp coffee".
10:19 mircea_popescu they even put the name on the cups!
10:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik it is part of the strange 'let poor schmucks Feel Like They Have Servant for 5min' thing americans have going
10:20 mircea_popescu that's what it pretends to be ; what it is i nfact, at least to my eyes, is more of the same usg social-democracy.
10:20 mircea_popescu if it actually were what it pretends, they'd be topless.
10:20 mircea_popescu ~nobody wants their name on their tits ; a degree of magnitude more than that ~nobody want the blouse off the tits.
10:20 asciilifeform iirc there was some petroburger chain where they ~were~
10:21 mircea_popescu i've not kept track , but anyways.
10:21 Framedragger (in america, no-one is poor; some are millionaire entrepreneurs with current cashflow problems)
10:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607053 << either to them or else to they who keep making these walmart cards!
10:23 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 12:08 davout: "l'avenir appartient à ceux qui se lèvent tôt"
10:23 asciilifeform to briefly revisit upstack, afaik the only people alive today with serious skill in managing a large cloud of sub-identities, are scammers. and that this is unlikely to change.
10:24 asciilifeform and personality fragmentation is Bad For You, perhaps more so than smoking.
10:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform let me recount a different story, if you will.
10:24 asciilifeform recount, i'll bbs, meat.
10:27 * mircea_popescu acquired new $slavegirl. intelligent girl, very educable (i don't just mean in terms of training-for-slavery, a la BCT, i mean scholarily, with a native thirst for knowledge and a natural dedication to clean thinking) and altogether very pleasant. for historical reasons, unexperienced socially (twentysomething, second time she was in a bar, i took her there) and not particularily capable of talking to people.
10:27 mircea_popescu so obviously her task at some point turned to... go out and talk to women. IN THE FUCKING STREET. she broke up in hives, she got gastritis, but my stick was firmer than the flesh and within a few short weeks retrospectively (that no doubt seemed endless then) acquired all the required skills, abilities and practices, and now can talk to random person on cue, with the best of the salesmen.
10:27 mircea_popescu which she isn't, visibly, to me. and to her. and to no one else.
10:28 mircea_popescu skills are skills. the expectation that one will go from craddle to grave without having to touch arbitrary class of skills "because i just don't go that way" is entirely hallucinant nonsense.
10:29 mircea_popescu for the exact same reason classical antiquity couldn't have blind emperors ; we today can't delegate "the people stuff" to others. we also cant' delegate "the numbers stuff" to others. there's no mechanical way out of this.
10:29 mircea_popescu yes, i'm aware palm calculators exist for a while now. they don't "fix math" for the blonde ditz.
10:36 mircea_popescu in summa, this then is the covenant of the republic : that everything here exists to serve your needs ; and that you can't have needs that can't be.
10:41 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607087 << this is actually not half-bad an idea, and it goes nicely in the direction of phf 's literate code, which i still think should be a distant, but present goal.
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10:41 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:02 trinque: history.txt
10:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607094 << this is entirely valid and utterly true. as the space of representation is so much larger than any possible inquiry (refresher http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594978 ) it then follows that plenty of shits won't be found until stepped on.
10:44 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:06 asciilifeform: trinque: the real trouble comes when somebody shits and no one (including, often , the shitter) even notices until , years later, they step in it.
10:44 a111 Logged on 2016-12-31 19:29 mircea_popescu: are you familiar with the von neumann set ?
10:45 mircea_popescu there is no good solution to this problem, but small codebases aka fit-in-head is a very strong paleative, and to my mind its chief merit comes from just this.
10:46 mircea_popescu trusted participants is the other.
10:47 mircea_popescu which is how you end up with an operating room : a neat place with few nooks and crannies where only surgeons (as opposed to mice ; cockroaches ; bacteria) are allowed access. as a result, no shit hiding in corners.
10:47 mircea_popescu both because not that many corners, and not that many shitters.
10:47 mircea_popescu there isn't a better approach to this. in particular "creating a semi-permeable membrane" is not one of them.
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10:48 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2009/se-da-o-membrana/ << in related lulz.
10:52 mircea_popescu "Plus ca e o nesecata fantana de umor. De exemplu : Cum isi gaseste un inginer cheile de la masina ? Construieste o membrana semi-permeabila care ingaduie trecerea oricarui obiect dar impiedica trecerea cheilor de masina." eerily apt in this conversation.
11:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607293 << from where do you get 'operating room, with surgeons but not roaches' without said membrane or equivalent ?
11:04 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 15:47 mircea_popescu: there isn't a better approach to this. in particular "creating a semi-permeable membrane" is not one of them.
11:04 asciilifeform and in fact healthy man's own body is precisely a set of semipermeable surfaces.
11:05 mircea_popescu from promise.
11:05 asciilifeform last i saw an operating room, it was sterilized by more than mere promise.
11:06 mircea_popescu but it was not sterilized by straining through semi-permeable membrane.
11:06 asciilifeform (operating room is not even best example. ever been to what is in usa called a 'type 4 lab' ? the kind with air lock.)
11:06 mircea_popescu sure ; very similar.
11:06 asciilifeform similar except that it is concerned with egress rather than ingress.
11:06 mircea_popescu that's kept sterile via airflow, which is to say, the continual negrating of random idiots who don't evidently have no business there. and such things.
11:07 mircea_popescu the continual ejection of lines of code which "Who knows, maybe they're useful"
11:07 mircea_popescu ie, dust and bacteria. out it goes.
11:07 mircea_popescu THAT is a process that works ; an imaginary strainer is fap fodder.
11:07 asciilifeform correct, but note, it is done here using wot mechanisms, rather than hand-cranked moderator.
11:07 asciilifeform ~amplified~ intelligence.
11:08 mircea_popescu quite.
11:08 mircea_popescu well amplified social skills, but yes.
11:08 asciilifeform in principle, strong d00d-with-shovel is exactly same as bulldozer. but in practice he is not, and bulldozer changed the type of construction that can be reasonably contemplated.
11:08 mircea_popescu i'm not a luddite yo.
11:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607096 << yes but the meaning of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607284 was precisely that we CAN enforce "keep docs and code in same place ; and keep them in step or die". at least eventually.
11:11 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:07 asciilifeform: docs diverge from code routinely, and it is far from always the case that someone notices and corrects immediately.
11:11 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 15:41 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607087 << this is actually not half-bad an idea, and it goes nicely in the direction of phf 's literate code, which i still think should be a distant, but present goal.
11:12 mircea_popescu which will be an awesome gain about on par with going from shovel to hydraulic autolocomotive tools.
11:12 asciilifeform except that it'll be no gain at all if as a result the expected material for ALL construction is granite.
11:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607100 << this is iffy. i, for instance, would ask. i think.
11:12 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:11 trinque: reactor 99947 vaporized the king upon inspection. who's asking the engineer what his rationale was?
11:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's true that once women started shaving it "never stopped" and adult vulvas look preteen these days. there's even some eyebrow shaving and repainting. but nobody;s shaved off their eyelashes yet ; on the contrary, those are fetishized and at expense elongated, painted etc.
11:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suppose it is because preteens etc. still have eyelashes
11:15 asciilifeform there is not yet afaik a fad of removing noses, ears, either.
11:16 mircea_popescu somehow that hair doesn't bother. but anyway. you find yourself with each foot in a different rowboat, because on one hand you don;t want everything to be high quality code ; and on the other you think shitty quality code normalizes it and begets more of the same.
11:16 mircea_popescu well, which is it ?
11:17 asciilifeform technological 'tower of babel' is built of many materials. has granite core, yes
11:17 asciilifeform but also wooden ladders.
11:17 mircea_popescu how do you know it's NOT good to have everything be made out of granite ?
11:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: same way i know 'it is NOT good to have the only vehicle be antigrav'
11:18 mircea_popescu this is not a good answer.
11:18 asciilifeform we simply do not have the granite-world. and if we ever get it, it will be from 1,001 years of living in wooden one.
11:18 asciilifeform and gradually replacing the wood.
11:18 mircea_popescu since all code is code ; unlike how all materials are different atoms ; it may then perhaps follow that if you're going to code at all, best make it good.
11:19 asciilifeform to code -- yes. but original thread concerned agricultural husbandry of old code, from heathendom.
11:20 asciilifeform incidentally i am not seeing much uptake for the 'walking the walk' of mircea_popescu's position, so far. afaik asciilifeform is the only one currently struggling with ada, for instance.
11:20 asciilifeform (it is quite a struggle.)
11:20 mircea_popescu original thread was vague and ramified. i don't see what more you need than alf-fucks-goats key ; and the bugaboo of "but mp, then everyone can make random keys i won't know about" seems more like a childhood nightmare than anything.
11:21 asciilifeform it is partly the long-term 'ecological' perspective on this practice, that bothers me; but also that pretending to be multiple people, while being one, is a fundamentally dishonest and truth-hiding act.
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11:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes and davout are evidently struggling with the trb ; so was mod6 before we fucked up his week with v stuff ; diana_coman is purging idiocy out of eulora and so on. plenty of people.
11:23 asciilifeform notice, almost everyone is ultimately occupied with 'husbandry of cows'
11:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no argument there. not like it is VERBOTEN to structure the identities in a treee etc.
11:23 mircea_popescu the whole problem is that it's not possible to make it mandatory.
11:23 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607339 << just some conceptual posturing from me, but: i maintain that it's not 'dishonest' and may in fact be a robust strategy to survive in the world. it's easy to misuse it, though.
11:23 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 16:21 asciilifeform: it is partly the long-term 'ecological' perspective on this practice, that bothers me; but also that pretending to be multiple people, while being one, is a fundamentally dishonest and truth-hiding act.
11:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my criticism was specifically that structuring them ~unopposably~ is an act of dishonesty.
11:24 asciilifeform and dishonesty -- is always paid for, in the end.
11:24 mircea_popescu Framedragger it's an age-based thing. younguns tend to try it out because thye need to because they suck ; as they stop sucking they stop needing to and adult identity is born. nothing wrong with any part of this.
11:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but also not necessarily your concern.
11:24 mircea_popescu most crimes actually contain their punishment. greek style.
11:25 asciilifeform the catch is that the miscreant and the punished are often disjoint.
11:25 mircea_popescu show me ?
11:25 asciilifeform the bezzle is an example.
11:25 mircea_popescu i hold the malfeasant is punished there.
11:25 mircea_popescu allow me to expound :
11:26 mircea_popescu romanian (at least before it was invaded and colonized by nato) culture has no concept of tort. the universal opposition to any attempt to pass the responsibility buck is "si daca-ti spunea sa sari in fintina, tu sareai ?" ie, and if he told you to jump down the well, would you have ?
11:26 mircea_popescu this is introduced at the latest to 7yos, and it's how it is, permanently.
11:26 asciilifeform 'mmm' is legal in ro today ?
11:27 asciilifeform as in '90s ru
11:27 mircea_popescu the 1996 version certainly was.
11:27 asciilifeform i asked re today
11:27 mircea_popescu i care about romania today in the sense you might care about the hittite empire. it sunk.
11:27 mircea_popescu (i honestly have nfi and can't be arsed to find out)
11:27 asciilifeform and betcha they still prosecute folx who diddle scales when selling goods by the kg, or alter petrol pump, etc
11:28 mircea_popescu nope. there's an official scale kept by market administration in all markets
11:28 mircea_popescu you can go have your things weighed there.
11:28 asciilifeform without honest weights and measures, there is no market, there is (in words of spiffy mircea_popescu article!) 'put maybe-potato in this bag, get a bag of maybe-coins'
11:29 mircea_popescu you may also file a complaint if the weighs don't match ; if they pile on the offender won't be able to hire a stall there. that's about it.
11:29 asciilifeform in righteous olden times there'd be a hanging.
11:29 asciilifeform pouring molten lead into mouth, optionally, also.
11:30 mircea_popescu i don't think anyone cares about a kg of produce enough these days.
11:30 mircea_popescu but yes, in olden days there'd be.
11:30 asciilifeform it is the ~principle~
11:30 asciilifeform that intentional fraud -- is punishable.
11:31 mircea_popescu ideally trhough punishing the "victims".
11:31 asciilifeform 'guard labour' is a tax.
11:32 asciilifeform if i gotta bite ~every motherfucking gold coin~ , that is time that i am not doing whatever-else.
11:32 mircea_popescu suppose you find your girl in bed with another oh nm that. suppose you send girl to market, she comes back defrauded. who do you punish, her or him ?
11:33 asciilifeform suppose mircea_popescu catches a hood rat red-handed running off with spare dirible engine from his warehouse.
11:33 * mircea_popescu shoots guard.
11:33 asciilifeform he will shoot? or will say 'ooops, i blame myself, should have guarded better.'
11:33 asciilifeform whom he shoots first? thief, or guard ?
11:34 mircea_popescu i don't actually bother with the thief.
11:34 asciilifeform if you don't pest-control, pests will control you.
11:34 mircea_popescu thief is, as our russki friend points out, only out to do crime to us for goods he could get other place.
11:34 mircea_popescu if we're the target rather than other place it's time to slim down the org.
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11:35 asciilifeform there's 'thief addressed to-occupant' and 'thief with your name on it'
11:35 asciilifeform to borrow the 'bullet vs shrapnel' old saw
11:36 mircea_popescu even so. as any half competent mobster can tell you, by the time you're targeted for theft your organsiation's been utter shit for a while.
11:36 asciilifeform the only reasonable answer to targeted, planned, premeditated theft, is to disproportionalely punish the rogue. (as per mircea_popescu's disproportionate-punishment article)
11:36 asciilifeform 'tis part of how you avoid being target. 'para bellum' etc.
11:36 asciilifeform this is kindergarten material, i thought.
11:37 mircea_popescu you're misusing terms, that's definitionally not theft.
11:38 mircea_popescu and yes, the answer to "random hootrat" "targeted, planned, premeditating theft of $item" is to take another $item, cut hoodrat's mother's head off and stuff $item in there.
11:38 mircea_popescu makes for excellent xmas celebrations.
11:40 asciilifeform so mircea_popescu is perfectly happy to punish those who would personally defraud ~him~
11:40 mircea_popescu that's not fraud.
11:40 asciilifeform but would tolerate 'gypos' in marketplace under his control ?
11:40 asciilifeform pestilential, unpunished 'gypo' activity is how you end up with popular tyrants to begin with.
11:40 mircea_popescu there's a strict difference between robber (who robs all comers) and invader (who robs you only).
11:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's also how you end up with merchant empires.
11:41 asciilifeform robs-all-comers is vermin, as desirable as ebola virus.
11:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform consider the "from the sewers" spain discussion. yes, as desirable as ebola virus. keeps the
11:41 mircea_popescu "popular" populace numbers low.
11:42 asciilifeform recall the other article though.
11:42 asciilifeform the one where great stink of london, and queen barfed.
11:42 asciilifeform ecology -- is legitimately a thing (as distinct from enviro-whinery) and we all share atmosphere, etc.
11:42 mircea_popescu which one, the one where hanbot says "anyone who could be bothered to use the wot would have known what pirate is up to ; yet none of you fucksticks did, and fuck you, now you wanna dork about the wot not working ?" ?
11:43 mircea_popescu the information is there. daring to not use it is a crime worse than any fraud.
11:43 asciilifeform this, yes. 'trust allah, but tie the camel'
11:43 asciilifeform folx who will not tie the camel -- deserve no sympathy.
11:43 mircea_popescu the pretense that "oh, i don't need the republic" or "oh, i use the tools at my leisure" or generally "oh, i'm an independent thinker in charge of my destiny" is what gets shot.
11:44 asciilifeform you still gotta hang the rogues. they are 'hostis humani generis'.
11:44 mircea_popescu so no, there's no sympathy for "victims". don't be a victim. if you are a victim, either fix yourself or kill yourself.
11:44 mircea_popescu save me the trouble in either case.
11:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform some are ; some aren't.
11:44 asciilifeform what's the distinction?
11:44 mircea_popescu am i going to hang someone for being hostis idiotas ?
11:45 asciilifeform idiotas != humani
11:45 mircea_popescu who next do i hang, whores ? for taking from fools money for that which they'd have free if they weren't fools ?
11:46 mircea_popescu wives next, yes, because totally, if whores hang the wives hang with them.
11:46 mircea_popescu who's left ?
11:46 asciilifeform i don't see this fog of war.
11:47 asciilifeform lemme ask mircea_popescu : would he classify , e.g., pirate, as 'hostis humani generis' ?
11:47 asciilifeform if he were merely 'legitimately separating idiots from money', then why yes ?
11:47 mircea_popescu nope
11:47 asciilifeform so why the negrate
11:48 mircea_popescu wait, you mean pirate the bitcoin dork or pirate the historical element ?
11:48 asciilifeform the former
11:48 mircea_popescu and in the former case : because I KNOW he's a scammer.
11:48 mircea_popescu i didn't order a hit on his fucking house, mind. this isn't because i can't have random residence firebombed.
11:48 mircea_popescu i can. don't opt to, because i don't see the merits.
11:49 asciilifeform but if we're going with 'answer lies in the sewers', then are scammers not 'part of circle of life' and 'janitors of the forest', mopping up the weak ?
11:49 mircea_popescu yes, but this doesn't mean we suddenly not know they're scammers.
11:50 asciilifeform as i see it, a large part of 'why wot' is to deliberately interfere with the 'circle of life' , to deny the scammer his easy prey.
11:50 asciilifeform just like city wall keeps out the bear.
11:51 mircea_popescu i'm an oracle, if you wish. people can ask me questions and get answers, which conform to a specified model ; and STAY conformant in the future.
11:51 mircea_popescu this is a kind of service. scammer does another kind of service.
11:51 mircea_popescu traditionally these are represented with + and -.
11:51 mircea_popescu there's not more meaning in there.
11:52 mircea_popescu the only hostis humani generis are the anonymous usg tools. the gavin-koch-weimer-boeck-younameit.
11:52 asciilifeform scammer does 'service' like earthquake does service.
11:52 mircea_popescu those who would deny their identity, chiefly to themselves, those who'd take what that simon fellow calls "the bargain" for "civilisation". those are the enemy.
11:52 mircea_popescu indiancandy isn't.
11:52 asciilifeform did i miss a log day.. whom did indiancandy scam
11:53 mircea_popescu nobody as far as i know.
11:53 asciilifeform so how does the example work, plox to elaborate
11:53 mircea_popescu whore, scammer, confused ditz, they may get in your way - but they aren't the enemy.
11:53 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1606942 << The dirty Kraut immigrants in the North had this convention called "housebarn"
11:53 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 02:31 asciilifeform: shiva(tinyscheme) is not a wife, it is a cow. it is quite possible to have a house without a cow. if you do have a cow, it lives in separate structure, and nobody will need to be reminded that it is not a wife.
11:54 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: what's a housebarn
11:54 mircea_popescu egyptians did it too.
11:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: while we're on subj of 'gets in the way but not enemy' -- how come 'adlai attacked republic by dropping snr' but not indiancandy ? is it because the latter lays claim to tits ?
11:56 asciilifeform what if we learn that 'she' is a d00d ? in israel no less ?
11:56 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Single building with house area and barn area and shared air circulation between the 2. Was all the rage in Wisconsin and Minnesota because Krauts are dirty savages.
11:56 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: sounds like minor variation of historic euro norm of ' i live with my pigs '
11:56 mircea_popescu has no "dropping snr" component.
11:57 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Variation with masonry foundation
11:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: from my perch, i see ~0 meaningful diff b/w icandy and adlai.
11:58 BingoBoingo http://centrevillesettlement.com/lutzehb.htm
11:58 trinque she has no pretensions to being other than tits
11:58 asciilifeform with possible exception that one 'had to be a cow' and other 'could have not been a cow', to borrow from mircea_popescu's piece
11:58 mircea_popescu since it's amusing in context, consider http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607011 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606754
11:58 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 04:49 adlai was gonna update on 'homework' but complies with sir's request
11:58 a111 Logged on 2017-01-25 23:24 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how about http://trilema.com/2009/pe-scurt-despre-analiza-tranzactionala/
11:58 asciilifeform but today -- both cow.
11:58 mircea_popescu really, schmuck is going to foist deals on me ? in what parallel fucking universe.
11:59 asciilifeform i did not read 'deal' in the quoted bit
11:59 trinque asciilifeform ever work in an office with an attractive couple of office assistants or whatever?
11:59 asciilifeform but submission, same as the chick's
11:59 asciilifeform trinque: i've worked in all kinds of sharashkas. why?
12:00 trinque they never actually do anything but be there female
12:00 mircea_popescu yes, but you're also not the end all be all of dealing with idiots. the implication, evident as it may be, being that i'm his mommy and i should care about his welfare and his choice to lead with the wrong fucking thing is somehow my problem and oh aren't we all sorry that we're missing out on adlai not being dogfood.
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12:00 mircea_popescu except i'm not his mommy.
12:00 mircea_popescu and we literally, and entirely, do not care.
12:00 mircea_popescu i could make ten of him and i wouldn't even need women to help me.
12:00 asciilifeform and yes incl. the kind where chick 'really wants to visit your office after hours and Learn How Robot Is Programmed' etc
12:00 trinque sounds great
12:01 asciilifeform trinque: i think i see your angle tho. however it dun do much outside of meatspace, imho 'radiating female' only works in meatspace.
12:01 mircea_popescu it also has nothing whatsoever to do.
12:01 asciilifeform it doesn't do anything through a terminal that 'eliza' could not do.
12:02 thestringpuller trinque: most of those women end up getting pregnant and get 6 months to play mommy while getting paid.
12:03 mircea_popescu unless you're looking to take over from them and do it in 5.5 months, what'd you expect happens.
12:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607473 << i can see very clearly this angle, but it is only an angle that you can see ~after~ you set the Bozo Bit on somebody
12:04 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 17:00 mircea_popescu: yes, but you're also not the end all be all of dealing with idiots. the implication, evident as it may be, being that i'm his mommy and i should care about his welfare and his choice to lead with the wrong fucking thing is somehow my problem and oh aren't we all sorry that we're missing out on adlai not being dogfood.
12:04 mircea_popescu maybe.
12:04 asciilifeform and yes, d00d made it quite easy, by contributing 0
12:04 mircea_popescu in honestly that bit was twinkling for a while.
12:04 asciilifeform could-have-not-been-cow
12:05 asciilifeform 'yer brain on dope', or who knows.
12:05 mircea_popescu it's a shitty thing to try and sell. at least whore sells her cunt, which is pleasant. scammer sells some knowledge. it's something, not much but present.
12:05 mircea_popescu this schmuck is literally going around trying to sell "i'm not going to hurt myself" to randos.
12:06 mircea_popescu utter shame on his parents.
12:06 asciilifeform it is not , at this point, even 'psychiatric' problem -- but ~veterinary~
12:06 asciilifeform diseased beast walks around, shitting where it stands, braying
12:06 asciilifeform there is 1 cure.
12:06 * mircea_popescu does literally think very little of the two actual humans invovled in the production of this particular greasespot. i think there's little more shameful than having parented an adlai.
12:07 mircea_popescu and i do mean that, the weirdo serbian dudes keeping rape hotels during the war were relatively preferable.
12:19 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607060 << Perhaps venture into the wilds and minister to heathens?
12:19 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 13:49 adlai is not a teetotaler in most fields, despite the expulpated exhortations.
12:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607129 << this is unrelated to the discussion ; but since it's brought up this is also not possible. you can't obtain a way to re-create "rousseau's social contract" ie, agreement without the nod. that's heathendom pure and simple ; until and unless i nodded on your fucking law-tax-whatever it ain't got teeth. i don't care what you agreed with whom.
↖
12:24 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:21 asciilifeform: all i ask is that said act not require a collective head nod.
12:24 mircea_popescu and there's no "by scratching your ass you thereby agree to..." bullshit either.
12:25 mircea_popescu there's a very marked difference between "to signify your agreement do x" and "anyone doing x is signifiying their agreement to blabla". this outrageous confusion between the sign and the significant itself is enough to make idiots of all the fiat statists.
12:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607147 << i would say this qualifies.
12:27 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:38 trinque: depends if you consider deedbot production use
12:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607150 << sad but tru.
12:28 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:40 Framedragger: ...and so it is that tmsr uses elliptic curve crypto in its production :)
12:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607162 << im kinda curious if this day is actually in my lifespan. a LOT more curious than about any of the nonsense re i dunno, "cure for death".
12:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:46 asciilifeform: Framedragger: understand, i would like to live to see the day when we use NOTHING at all that is not from the wot.
12:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607164 << that part is not disputed.
12:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:46 asciilifeform: but until then , need tools that let folx take MEANINGFUL responsibility, rather than volunteering at every turn to hang for things that they NEVER TOOK PART IN
12:31 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607168 << which is how everything ended up being here, through this shifting stress process. but anyway -- ancient societies had a very simple solution to the exact problem, which was the status of the alien.
12:31 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:51 asciilifeform: (and i will also note, mircea_popescu's method puts serious mechanical stress on a part of tmsr that is at present time not well-developed -- navigation of elaborate, deep, and TIME-VARIANT relationships between wot inhabitants)
12:31 mircea_popescu that's kinda where all this is going as far as i can see.
12:32 mircea_popescu the moment has not yet exactly come, but it isn't long in the future, where random noob's best bet isn't to join here and start yakking away, but instead join some lord's castle, prove himself there, gain an ally, and then, in due time, be introduced here by that lord. if need be and circumstances merit.
12:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik this already ~happens
12:34 asciilifeform (witness how we met , e.g., trinque )
12:39 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607501 << argument was not about 'i want promisetronics but without having to get assent' but 'want less promisetronics , period'
12:39 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 17:24 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607129 << this is unrelated to the discussion ; but since it's brought up this is also not possible. you can't obtain a way to re-create "rousseau's social contract" ie, agreement without the nod. that's heathendom pure and simple ; until and unless i nodded on your fucking law-tax-whatever it ain't got teeth. i don't care what you agreed with whom.
12:40 mircea_popescu yes but
12:41 asciilifeform but yes, the fact that asciilifeform made genesis using the recipe he gave, from vintage bitcoind, rather than pulled from own arse, is not a mechanically provable fact without witnesses.
12:47 asciilifeform incidentally there is such a thing as a 'stone witness', if you will. e.g., i have tarballs from 1990s on cdrom.
12:48 asciilifeform if your vtree traces pedigree to one of THESE as genesis, i or anyone else possessing such a disk, can be satisfied that it is not a modern wholesale forgery
12:48 mircea_popescu there is that.
12:48 asciilifeform (note that no other property, other than 'pre-exists valuable-bitcoin', is thereby demonstratable)
12:48 mircea_popescu i suspect as the basis grows there's going to be a lot more such cross-verification.
12:49 asciilifeform this is sorta why i wanted to put out trb, frozen gcc, linux, etc. on a ~pressed aluminum~ cd
↖
12:50 mircea_popescu we certainly must maintain pre 5 gccs
12:50 mircea_popescu there's apparently never going to be another c++ compiler.
12:50 asciilifeform there is also watcom
12:50 asciilifeform but yes.
12:50 * asciilifeform fond of watcom
12:50 asciilifeform it is in many ways cleaner than gcc.
12:50 mircea_popescu i guess.
12:51 asciilifeform a mainstay of msdos game industry of '90s.
12:51 asciilifeform had excellend debugger also.
12:51 mircea_popescu not entirely impossible that an i-gcc emerges eventually in the manner of i-b ; but i wouldn't hold breath
12:51 asciilifeform gcc has no future, but unfortunately there is not an alternative to gnat.
12:51 asciilifeform which relies on gcc backend.
12:53 mircea_popescu myeah.
12:53 mircea_popescu anyway, before there's what to bake on that cd, we gotta resolve the "tmsr package".
12:55 asciilifeform at this point we know, i suspect, all of it.
12:56 mircea_popescu try an enumeration as an exercise ?
12:56 asciilifeform but it is another matter to actually walk the logs, and do the heavy lifting.
12:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 3.x linux kernel; gcc 4.9; musltronic toolchain; emacs 24; trb; v; gpg 1.4+rngpatch+timingleakpatch .
12:57 asciilifeform i miss any ?
12:57 mircea_popescu gnat ?
12:57 mircea_popescu or part of chain
12:57 asciilifeform it lives in gcc
12:58 asciilifeform i suppose i missed a cltron
12:58 mircea_popescu prolly should be explicit. emacs 24 with what pile of scripts macros etc ?
12:58 asciilifeform (sbcl ?)
12:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: much of what emacs users use for scripts is custom, personal.
12:58 mircea_popescu also which 3.x is a worthy question
12:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform im not sure that's such a healthy thing.
12:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it isn't negotiable.
12:59 asciilifeform i will sooner put on another d00d's eyeglasses than use a stock emacs.
12:59 mircea_popescu it'd be saner to have a common trunk which people change than to have to reinvent the wheel each trime a new person fires up a new emacs.
12:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the common trunk ~is emacs per se~
12:59 asciilifeform which is largely a wad of elisp
12:59 mircea_popescu aite.
12:59 asciilifeform the question of 'which 3.x' is intimately tied to the hardware gnarl
13:00 asciilifeform fact is, 'frozen kernel' is ~guaranteed-unbootable on iron from 3-4 yrs from date of freeze.
13:00 asciilifeform regardless of how it is done. x86 is a corrosive evil.
13:00 mircea_popescu this is not exactly true, i'm booting 3.x on all sorts of late 1990s things
13:00 asciilifeform backwards-yes
13:00 asciilifeform forwards-no
13:01 asciilifeform think about it.
13:01 mircea_popescu this isn't so much a problem, as hardware also has no future.
13:02 asciilifeform in practice is is a problem. because ~everybody has ~own set of ancient iron.
13:02 asciilifeform if you add'em all up, you get a massive wad of shit.
13:03 mircea_popescu i'm satisfied that if one keeps the named hardware ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597436 convo) or their preferred equivalents that one will have no serious problems for the foreseable future.
↖
13:03 a111 Logged on 2017-01-06 13:28 mircea_popescu: like what ? something like amd fx 9500 is, i bet, way ahead anything apple ever put in anything they made.
13:03 mircea_popescu ie, it'll never be the case that it makes sense to get newer. let alone that you'd want to.
13:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i was just the other day sweating, to source a multi-cpu+ecc opteron board with >1 16-lane pcie.
13:03 asciilifeform ~none to be had for any price.
13:03 mircea_popescu computing is a ~dead discipline in this regard.
13:03 asciilifeform soon to be ==none.
13:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform /me is building a new palace, bought out all the things!!11
13:04 asciilifeform a top-notch (i.e. 1000+ usd in early 2000s) mobo lasts about 10y. i determined, experimentally.
13:04 asciilifeform i will attempt capacitor replacement, after the new board is up
13:04 asciilifeform but nfi if there will be result.
13:05 mircea_popescu kinda iffy thing. i have boards still going that i bought in 2002.
13:06 asciilifeform going 24/7/365 at 100% cpu ?
13:06 asciilifeform i won't dispute that these exist.
13:06 asciilifeform but they are few.
13:06 asciilifeform there is also, somewhere in u.s. air force, a pdp-8 up continuously since 1978.
13:06 asciilifeform but it is not typical.
13:08 asciilifeform fact is, in the not too distant future, even the very powerful folx will have many fewer cpu cycles to play with than common lamer has today. to the extent this is any concern of mine, i would like to design in such a way that the applications that actually matter, e.g., wotronics, have the necessary cycles.
13:09 asciilifeform (and, secondarily, that said cycles execute on honest iron and not usg-crapple et al.)
13:12 asciilifeform it is part of why i have continued and daily interest in z80, 6502, and other 'museum pieces'
13:14 asciilifeform these are 'kalash', they can be brought up with some patch wire, in a pinch, not even needing pcb, and exist in ~limitless junkyard supply, as does their ram and glue logic; and can be manufactured with sov-era fab tech, in turn can be re-created for less than what a dozen garbage trucks cost.
13:15 asciilifeform (sram can even be replaced with magnetic core, which in turn can be made by gurls with sewing needles, if it must. the mig-29 flies on magnetic core. and will fly in 2050, probably also on it.)
13:17 asciilifeform in turn it is also why i have an interest in a hypothetical nonbignumtronic (i.e. lamportronic) 'trb-i'.
13:17 asciilifeform but this is for another thread.
13:20 asciilifeform to briefly return to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607573 , as i was painfully rubbed into it yesterday, in own iron: the hardware follows a 'passenger pigeon' dynamic: 'today, plenty' -- 'tomorrow, plenty' ... ... 'suddenly, none'
13:20 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 18:03 mircea_popescu: i'm satisfied that if one keeps the named hardware ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597436 convo) or their preferred equivalents that one will have no serious problems for the foreseable future.
13:20 asciilifeform i do not know if this pattern is typical of exhausted nonrenewable resources, or if there even exists sufficient historic record to analyze
13:21 asciilifeform but i ~can~ say confidently that symbolics lispms followed this curve.
13:21 asciilifeform plenty-plenty-plenty-suddenlynone.
13:21 asciilifeform (at one point amex co. flooded the market with surplus, and they were 'cheap enough to throw out', and then suddenly worth weight in gold)
13:24 asciilifeform it is simply one manifestation of the 'markets are not magical' thing.
13:27 asciilifeform who recalls when asciilifeform tried to source the once-UBIQUITOUS motorola 68k cpu ?
13:28 asciilifeform empty shelves. (unless you count freescape corp.'s ridiculous 50bux/chip clone.)
13:28 asciilifeform *freescale
13:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't think it ever was 50% cpu no. but yes continuously.
13:39 mircea_popescu im not even sure what factor is worst for them. i think being powercycled worse than continuous use for one ; time probably worse than cpu utilization, unless poorly cooled. etc
13:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ftr mine died from cycling.
13:39 asciilifeform powered down to clean air filters and never came back up.
13:39 mircea_popescu yeah it's not good for em
13:40 mircea_popescu why the fuck would you have to power it down to replace filters wtf.
13:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: strictly speaking did not have to. but also decided to clean fans.
13:40 mircea_popescu aha
13:40 asciilifeform and so -- this.
13:41 mircea_popescu i clean fans with pressured air.
13:41 asciilifeform everyone cleans fans with air hose
13:41 asciilifeform how else.
13:41 mircea_popescu so then why power it down
13:41 asciilifeform because cpu melts in 10sec if you pull off the fan ?
13:41 mircea_popescu apply flexible tube to fan
13:42 asciilifeform and because over-speed fan (as in , with air applied) burns the bearing in <5sec ?
13:42 mircea_popescu 5bar, 5 seconds. done.
13:42 asciilifeform these are $100+ liquid bearing fans.
13:42 mircea_popescu ah
13:42 mircea_popescu i have traditional ones, doesn't bother them any.
13:42 asciilifeform in $otherlocation i have a box with removable, pluggable fans on rails , where you can pull it straight out and immediately drop in clean one
13:43 asciilifeform but that box is as loud as a shop vac.
13:43 asciilifeform i would not live with it in a house.
13:43 asciilifeform in a house one uses fans sitting on sorbothane grommets, etc.
13:43 asciilifeform down side is -- gotta power off ~yearly, to clean.
13:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> (at one point amex co. flooded the market with surplus, and they were 'cheap enough to throw out', and then suddenly worth weight in gold) << it's entirely what the trader lives off.
13:45 asciilifeform aha. but in that case, no comp trader showed up, only metal recyclers.
13:46 asciilifeform the rembrandts were burned in a stove. etc.
13:46 asciilifeform hammer, microscope.
13:51 mircea_popescu and whose fault is that ?
13:51 mircea_popescu speak, ye of little resources, thinking self programmers and thinking men, who couldn't even save a few lisp machines.
13:51 asciilifeform well we saved a few.
13:52 asciilifeform which is more than can be said for, e.g., 'scheme79' machine.
13:52 asciilifeform or xerox dorado.
13:53 asciilifeform (i have not succeeded in locating a working example of xerox-interlisp lm, for sale at any price by anyone)
13:53 asciilifeform in 10+ yrs.
13:53 asciilifeform (since began to look)
13:55 asciilifeform now, these were manufactured in the hundreds, rather than the thousands, so not mega-surprise.
~ 21 minutes ~
14:17 ben_vulpes buenos dias
14:17 asciilifeform hey ben_vulpes .
14:18 ben_vulpes top logs today
14:19 ben_vulpes a+ historical document linked from 'days of rage': http://nymag.com/news/features/46170/#print
14:20 ben_vulpes phf: may i have a copy of your log backups?
14:25 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, apparently the us is preparing to noriega nieto
14:25 mircea_popescu (the current mexico president)
14:26 ben_vulpes drugwar charges?
14:26 Framedragger phf: if at it, may i have a copy of your logs too, please? :)
14:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: from same circus, u.s. senate is proposing to ban mr.t from revering obummer's 'ru sanctions and They Stole Election' decrees
↖
14:27 asciilifeform (obummer's executive decrees -- a-ok; herr tritler's reversal thereof -- OHNOEZ)
14:27 mircea_popescu except senate can't really do much.
14:27 asciilifeform not only the dems, tho
14:27 asciilifeform mccain & co. joined.
14:27 mircea_popescu doesn't matter.
14:28 asciilifeform it's mr.t vs the ~whole machine.
14:28 mircea_popescu well we knew that didn't we.
14:28 asciilifeform (unsurprisingly) they are making a nixon-shaped box for him to sit down in.
14:28 mircea_popescu eh, they spent 20 years pumping up the executive order
14:28 mircea_popescu will be fun to watch.
14:28 ben_vulpes what is this "nixon-shaped box"?
↖
14:29 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: by some accounts, nixon was 'boxed in', for instance cut off from the nuke chain.
14:29 mircea_popescu i dunno how much i credit these accounts.
14:29 ben_vulpes and i do not see this "trump vs republicans" thing. he saved the party, the old cripples are on their way out and he'll be either vice president in 8 years or speaker of the house.
14:29 asciilifeform well... asciilifeform wasn't there, boxing nixon.
14:29 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes depends on how good a job bannon does.
↖
14:29 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: who is more hated than involuntary savior.
14:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he's hated by nobody on a stick.
14:30 mircea_popescu mccain, seriously ? nobody cares.
14:30 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: yeah does matter quite a bit how great the great again is
14:30 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:30 ben_vulpes full employment is very cheap compared to bank bailouts though.
14:30 asciilifeform the folx selling the $trillion imaginary airplane, boats, etc. -- care.
14:30 mircea_popescu anyway, it's not even that gop split up under trump shock. much worse than that : the non-trump faction took a hard look around, discovered it doesn't exist.
14:31 mircea_popescu the mccain adlaing in the senate is entirely without teeth.
14:31 ben_vulpes pretty much.
14:31 ben_vulpes "wake up babe army, the wall is not a racist thing. it's the largest works program since the new deal."
14:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes but those folks are weaker than a website. 20 man firms ; and those "men" are too afraid to grab an ass in the elevator.
14:31 ben_vulpes "do kindly look to your history books and see how the last enormous welfare program worked out for its sponsors"
14:32 mircea_popescu worked great, what. roosevelt got like 500 terms.
14:32 ben_vulpes exactly!
14:32 mircea_popescu butr yes, it's always better to put the poor to work than to stroke the illusions of the rich.
14:33 mircea_popescu anyway, let's just say that the notion that the "blue chips" are worth anything just took a serious bath.
14:33 ben_vulpes blue collar whites want to set rebar and pour concrete while the minority groups they think themselves above mow their lawn.
14:33 mircea_popescu the companies worth money in the future are not these.
14:34 mircea_popescu no apple, no google. it's gonna be trump's consturction co, bannon's whatever sidescam he makes, that sort of thing.
14:34 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes quite
14:34 ben_vulpes mmmmmhm.
14:34 ben_vulpes "but why don't we spend the wall money on fixing our infrastructure?" "were you even /listening/ during the campaign? it's not an exclusive thing, he's doing both."
14:35 ben_vulpes "where will the money come from?" "just borrow more, couldn't be easier."
14:35 mircea_popescu what infrastructure.
14:35 mircea_popescu unmless he's building trains he's wasting the moneyt.
14:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as it is usa has problem even making pig iron
14:35 ben_vulpes it's a full-employment program, the money is definitionally wasted.
14:35 asciilifeform manhole covers are stamped 'india' where i live.
14:36 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: come off it, there are myriad small casting shops here.
14:36 mircea_popescu as the narrative goes, they choose not to run
14:36 mircea_popescu we'll see.
14:36 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: million small-everythings.
14:36 ben_vulpes where small can be anything from 20 to 500 staff.
14:36 asciilifeform making fighter jet parts for imaginary jet.
14:36 asciilifeform and drywall for mcmansions.
14:37 ben_vulpes no, casting bases for dental chairs.
14:38 ben_vulpes this repositing every single thing that happens as a direct result of the great inca in america is downright tiring. inca gives zero shits about this corner of its empire, leaves us to fend for ourselves.
14:38 mircea_popescu anyway. there's a bunch of moneys for the us to build nuclear reactors and oil pipeline process ; to lay train track ; some to do dumb shit like walls with mexico, hospitals, etcetera. exactly none to continue with the present "derechos" bullshit.
14:39 ben_vulpes imperial regional offices are: intel, precision cast parts, flir and the roboflugen boeing division up the valley.
14:39 mircea_popescu so politico being what he is, he'll do what he can. and the bureaucracy being what it is, ie a spending machine, will sit its ass on its own mouth and adapt.
14:40 mircea_popescu should be fun to watch the leftys get caught on wrong side of history / fingers in door, but whatevers. who cares about some dumb shits anyway.
14:41 ben_vulpes the performance-art-masquerading-as-commentary is growing shriller and less amusing by the day.
14:41 ben_vulpes from 3 chuckles in a 3-hour rotation of minorities down to barely 1 by accounts.
14:41 mircea_popescu myeah. no longer productive comedy mine
14:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: e.g., galois ! is 'fend for selves' ?!
14:42 ben_vulpes oh yeah i forgot about them
14:42 asciilifeform megalolpolis
14:43 trinque are we doing the "no but really some places on the continent build things" thread again?
14:43 asciilifeform no dispute that this particular GDR still has trabant plants.
14:43 ben_vulpes but yes, look to the overpaid and highly visible imperial offices and not to the sheep farmers on lopez.
14:44 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the sheep-herders allocate ~0 capital.
14:44 ben_vulpes dunno about 'make', but some places cast al, fe, weld racks to rigs. saw it, drank with the people involved, don't know what you want.
14:45 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: capital wielders under inca are interesting?
14:45 asciilifeform depends -- to whom.
14:45 asciilifeform to mircea_popescu in his martian dome -- probably not.
14:45 trinque hell my truck came from a factory in san antonio
14:46 asciilifeform trinque: where did the plastic dashboard come from ?
14:46 mircea_popescu any way you turn it, it's not been long enough. us could get any item fabrication thing going tomorrow, and be good at it by 2020. the oinly thing keepign this from happening atm is the faint pretenses of kiddos who think they get to have a say in their future activity and the misguided notions of old people that somehow china eating that and the us being left to make money out of doing each other's laundry is a practicable a
14:46 mircea_popescu pproach.
14:46 asciilifeform betcha it is stamped 'china'
14:46 ben_vulpes "but teh parrrts!"
14:46 mircea_popescu the latter got beaten to shit ; and the former isn't worth the farts it's spoken with.
14:46 asciilifeform e.g., FUCKGOATS, is technically MAEDINUSA!!1!!1!!!
14:47 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: nobody here is laboring under the illusion that any money is to be made. there are social media twits, and a small group of people trading fermented trash around.
14:47 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes takes all of five minutes for money to be made. it's just a matter of how you structure things.
14:47 mircea_popescu trump can ban all imports into the country, tomorrow. and he can stick to it, permanently.
14:48 mircea_popescu watch how there'll suddenly be money to be made once the shock troopers are done scraping the last "university student" off the sidewalk.
14:48 ben_vulpes i'm not holding my breath for anyone associated with the government to fix shit.
14:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where'll the missing 80% of petro come from
14:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform shit it or do without.
14:48 mircea_popescu what "missing".
14:48 asciilifeform it'll be berlin, 1945.
14:49 mircea_popescu hardly.
14:49 ben_vulpes yeah what fucking missing, there's shittons.
14:49 trinque dude north america has *vast* oil reserves
14:49 mircea_popescu it would be leningrad, 1925.
14:49 mircea_popescu very different stories.
14:49 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: iirc usa supplies ~20% of own petro.
14:49 trinque what the fuck imaginary world is this
14:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and if it WERE a problem, make iraq 51st state, shoot everyone who refuses to attend sunday mass.
14:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it does, but for the reason above.
14:49 asciilifeform trinque knows about reserves that the prospectors don't know about ? why he is not out drilling ?
14:49 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: there are a zillion fracking taps the saudis 'tricked us' into putting in.
14:49 asciilifeform (or is he..?)
14:50 mircea_popescu random 20yo piucked off the street thinks it's his option as to whether he works oil rig or not.
14:50 asciilifeform it's skilled labour eh, not for gulag.
14:50 mircea_popescu oh it is.
14:50 mircea_popescu fine, so they get skilled or they die.
14:51 mircea_popescu once chitlin get to look into the face of their own irrelevance, things get going in a jiffy.
14:51 ben_vulpes put ten through get one out. almost as good for the body politic as war proper.
14:51 asciilifeform killing derps doesn't get the ruined expensive gear back.
14:51 mircea_popescu better ; you get the upper ones out this way.
14:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform question was "make money".
14:51 asciilifeform gulag worx best with axe.
14:51 trinque asciilifeform: the prospectors ~know
14:51 trinque why do you think the EPA is being gutted as we speak?
14:51 ben_vulpes epa was doing fuck all in the first place.
14:52 trinque I don't like the insane asylum in dc any more than anyone else
14:52 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: was repurposed under obummer to fund climatism
14:52 ben_vulpes stood by while the water table was ruind.
14:52 mircea_popescu not so ; providing jobs for the new york times staff bfs.
14:52 trinque this changes 0 in regards to what is beneath the soil
14:52 trinque ben_vulpes: for pennsylvanians and whatnot
14:52 trinque they're not even people
14:52 ben_vulpes gonna hear the same wail in re the fda as well, with the same response. "they fed us meth under doctors orders. kill them all."
14:53 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes "lich saved my life!!1"
14:53 mircea_popescu that's such an epic blasio pic
14:53 asciilifeform usa dun really have a purge apparatus. or experience thereof.
14:53 asciilifeform which is why bush, reagan, et al, kept the derps around.
14:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform get out of here. everyone has ; and nothing easier.
14:53 asciilifeform ~unscathed.
14:53 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: anecdata.
14:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no. they did it because they were derps.
14:54 ben_vulpes trinque: yeah actually that's a good one to roast liberals with.
14:54 ben_vulpes "oh i see why you don't like the epa, they fucked up the white pennsylvanian red state people you hate so much. so it's cool that penn no longer has potable water, because they're vile trumpers, right?"
14:54 ben_vulpes er "why you don't like the epa gutting"
14:54 trinque I cannot see the error in that logic.
14:54 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes totes.
14:55 asciilifeform as for 'iraq as 51st state', we saw result of this attempt in 2003-present, neh..?
14:55 asciilifeform or what, it oughta be tried with new, martian army?
14:55 asciilifeform in place of the old.
14:56 mircea_popescu was not attempt.,
14:56 mircea_popescu what i said was, "make iraq 51st state, shoot everyone who refuses to attend sunday mass."
14:56 mircea_popescu and i mean it literally. either you're in the church or in the morgue.
14:56 mircea_popescu tear down every last mosq, and sink the bricks.
14:57 mircea_popescu then trump can write De Belo Iraco.
14:57 asciilifeform we can start as soon as mircea_popescu gets the landsknecht through the time machine booth
14:58 mircea_popescu i think you deeply misrepresent just how easy sanity is.
14:59 asciilifeform what happened to 'moribund byzantium', 'all pasture in the city walls'
15:00 asciilifeform it ain't, apparently, 'easy'. i know of 0 historical examples of 'civilization comeback'
15:00 mircea_popescu it won the popular vote and lost the electoral.
15:00 mircea_popescu this wouldn't be a civilisation comeback. on the contrary, it would be controlled civilisation demolishing. in preference of the inevitable alternative.
15:01 mircea_popescu sort-of like a self-applied russian solution.
15:01 mircea_popescu recall, the case of "comeback" that happened in your lifetime ?
15:02 mircea_popescu similarily, left state, purged the apparatus, came back out right ?
15:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not really clear to me , from here, that comeback is genuine. consider: where is 'elbrus'.
15:02 mircea_popescu i just said!
15:03 asciilifeform and why even the advertised elbrus sits on 100% taiwanese chipset.
↖
15:03 asciilifeform ( i was speaking of 'ru comeback ' )
15:05 asciilifeform 'american comeback' is a lulzy thing coming from folx who do not ~explicitly~ discuss the necessary crematoria
15:05 mircea_popescu but we did, above.
15:05 asciilifeform we -- did.
15:05 asciilifeform mr.t -- not afaik.
15:05 mircea_popescu myeah
15:05 mircea_popescu well... has time.
15:06 ben_vulpes i am very short any sort of comeback.
15:06 ben_vulpes comeback necessarily would have to entail sane monetary structure, which is even less likely than gutting the department of labor.
15:07 mircea_popescu likely/unlikely is a decent heuristic in slow times.
15:07 mircea_popescu in fast times, the unlikely is a good predictor.
15:07 ben_vulpes great again full employment + ubi == currency rot
15:08 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you don't want a strong currency while industrializing.
↖ ↖
15:08 mircea_popescu hence the early soviet ruble / 1970s renminbi etc
15:08 mircea_popescu japanese yen in the late 1800s
15:08 mircea_popescu strong currency is counterproductive before the folks even have what to save.
15:11 ben_vulpes this may be so, but getting the dollar back to 1000/btc is going to be harder with every rod of rebar.
15:11 mircea_popescu the dollar is never again going to be anywhere near 1k / btc. that's cut and dried.
15:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-30#1442347 << there was another, deeper thread re 'tolerance to poverty', the thing chinese have, and usa does not -- but i cannot seem to find
15:12 a111 Logged on 2016-03-30 22:56 mircea_popescu: russia exists out of the tolerance to poverty of its women and the rich subsoil. not much call for the latter in the much slower economy of the future. so rather than buying bonds...
15:12 mircea_popescu the us itself opted for it ; in preference of 4/8 years of increasingly tenous pretense to the contrary by some pantsuited clown.
15:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform don't worry about it -- they had it two generations ago, and will get it again
↖
15:12 mircea_popescu ask an okie.
15:12 ben_vulpes yeah kind of what i'm saying. the currency degradation is utterly irreversible, and that's the us' death sentence, no matter how great again the temporary may feel.
15:13 mircea_popescu the louder if useless city kids don't have it, but what they have or don't have is irrelevant - anyone with a social media profile is dead as of last week
15:13 ben_vulpes gimme that good debt, right to this clean vein.
15:13 mircea_popescu they don't know it yet, but they're as dead as polish jews.
15:13 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it's not clear. maybe it finds itself a nation at the bottom of it.
15:13 mircea_popescu evidently not everyone in there is good time sally-ing it throughout.
15:14 ben_vulpes ferment your trash, fix your neighbors toilets, pray you can get through the long walk in the desert with friends.
15:18 trinque http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article104509111.html
↖
15:18 trinque I really don't give a fuck if the outer husk becomes a nation
15:19 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607831 << well yes, it is a given that 'if everybody dies, the cockroaches/mongols/etc. will build own city, from 0'
15:19 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 20:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't worry about it -- they had it two generations ago, and will get it again
15:19 trinque but there's a kernel in there
15:20 ben_vulpes trinque: hash oil bank when
15:20 asciilifeform but usa, like any mega-empire, had a motivatory idiology for the rubes, and said ideology is sinking, because the necessary chumpatronic rewards are increasingly unavailable.
15:20 asciilifeform *ideology
15:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dude, the idiot kids over at github aren't either civilisation or america
15:20 mircea_popescu they're nobody on a stick.
15:20 mircea_popescu the ideology is still there, just as recoverable today as it was in lincoln's day.
15:21 ben_vulpes trinque: that project could kick off quite the conflict if it threatens the value of paper gold significantly.
15:21 trinque ayep
15:22 ben_vulpes then the gamble becomes "can tejas out-shoost the feds"
15:22 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the mega-q imho is 'how many days can texaslandia survive without chinese plastic shipments restocking lolmarts'
15:22 trinque I don't think most of the continent wants to shoost tejas
15:23 ben_vulpes trinque: recall "the most important part is being wrong together" from the manning piece?
15:23 mircea_popescu moreover california losing about 10mn pop would be great for the planet
15:24 ben_vulpes the oathkeepers are a notorious joke, and nobody's going to stand up to a commanding officer to defend the good people of texas, no matter how little the ordered disliked texans the day before.
15:24 trinque same for anyone whose family moved to new england in the last 50 years
15:25 trinque ben_vulpes: not how it would work at all
15:25 trinque texas would wrap adjoining states in monetary tentacles over time
↖
15:25 mircea_popescu trinque should be interesting, esp seeing how the canabis state laws thing made it quite precedented.
15:26 trinque liberal potheads save the day again
15:26 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i think you deeply misrepresent the rural folk.
15:27 mircea_popescu i guarantee you eg mod6 would stand with me / bring rifle from home. he's not alone i nthe us. you are.
15:27 asciilifeform the 'we are autarkik paradise in the making, as soon as we eject the parasitic rest-of-continent' is only slightly less laughable re tx than re ca.
15:27 trinque ~my girlfriend~ would hand me clips
15:27 asciilifeform there is a not an autarkik wonderland sitting inside usa.
15:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform all nation building starts with killing the croat males and taking the females to the breeding pits.
15:27 asciilifeform there ~are~, just as in every other part of the world, folx who can live on tree bark and make musket from old truck axle, etc.
15:27 trinque I know right? it'd wreck vital structures in one's self-representation
15:27 asciilifeform they are not a 'state in a state'
15:27 mircea_popescu this is what a nation is. laugh if you will, but it won't do anything.
15:29 mircea_popescu and the alternative here, ie, "federation", as in weimar republic exacrtly is strictly non workable because endothermic. and there's no heat to be had. not no mo.
15:29 trinque maybe that passed too quietly; the whole middle of the country can shoot, including the women
15:29 mircea_popescu so... nation building seems likely altogether.
15:29 mircea_popescu trinque more importantly : would. gladly.
15:29 asciilifeform trinque: ~everybody in usa is a passable shot. so far dun seem to have prevented washington, lincoln, fdr, et al.
15:29 mircea_popescu lincold got shot.
15:29 asciilifeform not in time.
15:29 mircea_popescu well this can always be said eh.
15:30 mircea_popescu if they shoot clinton now it'd not be in time either. in time for what.
15:30 trinque asciilifeform: I would say my view of former USSR is as cartoonish as your present view of certain parts of north america you apparently haven't spent time in
15:30 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: misrepresent rural folks working in us mil?
15:30 mircea_popescu in general.
15:30 asciilifeform e.g., bush, created dhs/gestapo unmolested, shots fired against same: 0 (afaik)
15:30 mircea_popescu there isn't going to be a "us mil" if things fall apart. there wasn't a soviet one either.
15:31 trinque thinking otherwise is *their* "they would never" propaganda
15:31 ben_vulpes you're conflating "things fall apart" with "texas threatens goldman sachs' control of paper gold price"
15:31 trinque goldman just moves here
↖
15:31 mircea_popescu i do. because it's the same thing.
15:31 trinque see: exxon mobil
15:31 mircea_popescu if the negotiations can't proceed, the thing fell apart.
15:31 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: in re china embargo, that'd be a tidy provocation for cn to demonstrate how easily the us fleet is shredded.
15:31 mircea_popescu if they can proceed, see trinque above.
15:31 asciilifeform trinque: granted, i have not yet been to all parts of usa.
15:32 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes china isn't going to fight embargo.
15:32 ben_vulpes long shot, sure.
15:32 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wasn't re embargo, but re ease of subjugating ~any part of usa simply by cutting off shipments of imported cheapolade to it.
15:33 trinque the parts that ship their groceries in, sure.
15:33 asciilifeform where groceries are grown -- imported agri-machine parts, petrol.
15:33 mircea_popescu not at all. look at the incentive structure. for one thing, they knew the ride isn't going forever so it's planned. for the other, a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607386 is long overdue by now
15:33 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 16:34 mircea_popescu: if we're the target rather than other place it's time to slim down the org.
15:33 trinque asciilifeform: heh I've got plenty of that too!
15:33 mircea_popescu they'll just use the opportunity to shoot some of their own idiots and clamp down.
15:34 asciilifeform trinque: folks who 'i've got plenty' end up raided by neighbours; spend time manning machine gun instead of plowing
15:34 asciilifeform result: 1945
15:34 trinque some people made out great in '45. it all depends
15:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform absolutely not. it's immensely morep roductive to produce than to raid.
15:34 asciilifeform ftr it is monumentally bad idea to advertise one's 'i've got plenty' (we had an old thread re subj)
15:35 ben_vulpes here's the spectre of atomized americans again.
15:35 trinque I was referring to the state
15:35 trinque whole port of houston is outfitted to refine and ship
15:35 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: aha. say 'i have a buried container of XYZ' and folx write down your coords.
15:35 trinque that's not going away if I start speaking spanish in 30yrs
15:36 ben_vulpes so don't. fix their cars instead.
15:36 asciilifeform trinque: ask the syrians, or iraqis, how profitable is refinery when there is measurable chance of it eating a thermite grenade on particular day
15:36 asciilifeform civilization is fragile.
15:36 mircea_popescu this is entirely not how it works.
15:36 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 'fix their cars' is more viable.
15:36 mircea_popescu "civilization is fragile" is the excuse of the lazy.
15:37 ben_vulpes don't bury a container of xyz much less tell anyone about it. be indispensable to the people who feed you.
15:37 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: undisputable algo.
15:37 ben_vulpes "yeah who knows he probably has a container of servers on his land somewhere, but he also keeps the entire region connected to the bitcoin net so anyone who fucks with him fucks with the whole valley"
15:37 trinque comparing houston to anywhere in iraq is insane
15:38 asciilifeform trinque: as soon as plug is pulled, all of usa is iraq.
15:38 trinque moreover anyone who would want to take houston and destroyed it is an ~idiot~
15:38 asciilifeform is there a shortage of idiots where trinque lives today ?
15:38 trinque man you'd have no idea
15:38 mircea_popescu civilisation = "idiot in power" IS fragile.
15:38 mircea_popescu that part won't last.
15:38 mircea_popescu nor has it anything to do with civilisation in any sense.
15:39 mircea_popescu civilisation isn't when the blind can drive and the deaf can hear.
15:39 asciilifeform expensive, breakable machinery in a geographic concentration, that is orders of magnitude easier to destroy than to rebuild -- is still a thing.
15:39 asciilifeform whether you are under stalin, or fdr, or mao, whoever.
15:40 mircea_popescu sure, but this is a minor facet of a complex gem.
15:40 asciilifeform it roughly == 'civilization'.
15:40 mircea_popescu cunt, inviting and self-lubricating, concentrated in cramped boring spaces is easier to fuck than anything
15:40 mircea_popescu so how much office fucking is going on ?
15:40 asciilifeform whereas you could not burn ulan batur in 1700s, what, they just gotta make new yurts.
15:41 mircea_popescu people aren't actually your model of people.
15:41 asciilifeform i should hope not.
15:41 mircea_popescu the burning of ub is significant culturally. they won't rebuild it because TO THEM those aren't just some shitty yurts.
15:41 mircea_popescu which is how kiev rus ended
15:42 mircea_popescu "big whoop, could have reconstructed in half a summer"
15:42 mircea_popescu "yes. but didn't."
15:44 asciilifeform it ended?! i missed the memo...
15:44 asciilifeform moved.
15:44 mircea_popescu well yeah, muscovy right exactly.
15:44 trinque I spent 5 years in total in Portland, in two tours.
15:44 trinque there's a reason I moved home, and why Portland ~never~ became home.
15:45 trinque the government will go; there will be people here still that are people
15:45 trinque there will however be a lot of californians to deport
15:45 asciilifeform trinque: i have not been there. i associate it mentally with galois corp., the outfit to which usg.nsa subcontracts a good chunk of critical dev work
15:45 asciilifeform just like , e.g., seattle, is microshit
15:45 mircea_popescu that's kinda silly.
15:45 asciilifeform and sf is google, cupertino - crapple.
15:46 mircea_popescu seattle is microsoft, but texas is roughly speaking all of new england
15:46 asciilifeform new england is where they keep academitards; and lockheed.
15:46 mircea_popescu sf is also much larger than.
15:47 asciilifeform what's in sf other than sv/pg bubbletrons?
15:48 mircea_popescu actually more academitards than in boston
15:48 asciilifeform (and their associated support machinery -- whores, drivers, et al)
15:50 ben_vulpes galois corp doesn't have enough butts on staff to have a good chunk of anything outsourced to it
~ 1 hours 49 minutes ~
17:39 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: megabux are not allotted by 'buttcount', you know this.
↖
17:41 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2017-January/000094.html
17:42 asciilifeform 'There is a carry propagating bug in the x86_64 Montgomery squaring procedure. No EC algorithms are affected. Analysis suggests that attacks against RSA and DSA as a result of this defect would be very difficult to perform and are not believed likely. Attacks against DH are considered just feasible (although very difficult) because...
↖
17:42 asciilifeform '
17:42 asciilifeform hilarious.
17:43 asciilifeform !~later tell ben_vulpes plox to enlighten me, a poor sinner, why did crapple break the HOME and END keys ? what did they ever do to'em ?
17:43 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
17:44 asciilifeform ' The amount of resources required for such an attack would be very significant and likely only accessible to a limited number of attackers.' << lel
17:44 asciilifeform as if anyone gave half a shit about any attacker but the One.
17:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes, other crappletronicists : also lulzy is that dialog boxes in recent crapple os are no longer TAB-navigable
17:45 asciilifeform did somebody cancel the clinton-era invalid 'accessibility' law while i slept in my cave..?
17:46 asciilifeform what if i were Officially Sad and typed with my arse, and have no mouse. what then.
17:52 asciilifeform in related lulz, https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/26/community-health-initiative-grant/
17:52 asciilifeform 'Today, the Wikimedia Foundation announced the launch of a community health initiative to address harassment and toxic behavior on Wikipedia, with initial funding of US$500,000 from the Craig Newmark Foundation and craigslist Charitable Fund. The two seed grants, each US$250,000, will support the development of tools for volunteer editors and staff to reduce harassment on Wikipedia and block
17:52 asciilifeform harassers.'
17:53 asciilifeform 'Let us hope this gives the WF the resorces it needs to complete the Code of Conduct for Technical Spaces which is not yet ready for the Community to vote on after having been suggested at Wikimania 2015'
18:00 BingoBoingo Awe, I thought by "community health" they were going to unveil WikiBamaCare!
18:08 asciilifeform entirely unrelatedly to recent threads: anybody here ever experiment with 'toslink' ?
↖
18:09 asciilifeform it is an ancient (iirc 1980) and cheapo (plentiful, pre-crimped fibers in various lengths , for pennies) cable standard, at one point was used for high-end speakers
18:09 asciilifeform imho could easily live a new life as non-radiating ('tempest') connector between crypto gear.
18:10 asciilifeform 0 electrical conduction.
18:10 asciilifeform and the transceivers are still made by toshiba and quite well-built (conductive plastic shield, for instance.)
18:10 asciilifeform a few $ each.
18:11 asciilifeform now in some cheap gear there IS light leakage at the connector. but nothing black varnish wouldn't solve.
18:14 asciilifeform it is MOST peculiar that -- afaik -- NOWHERE can you buy a rs232-to-toslink converter.
18:15 asciilifeform (rs232 to costly glass fiber IS available, for many hundreds of usd AT EACH PLUG END)
18:15 asciilifeform usg proclaimed, Thou Shalt Radiate For Us
18:15 asciilifeform who refused -- i presume -- Had Problems.
↖
18:16 asciilifeform there is 0 reason why the cable to your lcd is not a fiber.
18:16 asciilifeform other than this.
18:16 asciilifeform (copper wire is ~orders of magnitude~ costlier than even the finest glass fiber.)
18:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607967 << bullshit. of course they are.
18:23 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 22:42 asciilifeform: 'There is a carry propagating bug in the x86_64 Montgomery squaring procedure. No EC algorithms are affected. Analysis suggests that attacks against RSA and DSA as a result of this defect would be very difficult to perform and are not believed likely. Attacks against DH are considered just feasible (although very difficult) because...
18:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they aint even tryin' any moar
18:23 asciilifeform (to be believeable.)
18:24 mircea_popescu myeah
18:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607982 << aye. great connectors.
18:25 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 23:08 asciilifeform: entirely unrelatedly to recent threads: anybody here ever experiment with 'toslink' ?
18:26 asciilifeform i will add, it is more interesting than it seems, because optical interconnect would make shielding, e.g., keyboards, ~meaningful~
18:26 asciilifeform instead of wankage.
18:27 asciilifeform i actually painted my 'model f' with conductive paint, 5 coats. it still radiates, from the cable.
18:27 asciilifeform because nobody cancelled green's theorem.
18:27 mircea_popescu aha. cable generally most antenna-y part anyway
18:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607992 << i guess we'll be finding out in short order. converter easy to make.
18:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 23:15 asciilifeform: who refused -- i presume -- Had Problems.
18:30 asciilifeform https://opencores.org/project,uart_fiber << published schematics.
~ 55 minutes ~
19:25 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/first-days-of-trump-administration-feature-bold-leap-into-action/ << Qntra - First Days Of Trump Administration Feature Bold Leap Into Action
~ 27 minutes ~
19:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607965 << actually they are, pretty much. usg public contracting is very transparently an exercise in subsidizing the population ; odds of you getting a contract are entirely a function of some senator "creating jobs".
19:52 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 22:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: megabux are not allotted by 'buttcount', you know this.
19:52 mircea_popescu that's the baseline.
19:54 mircea_popescu there's bonus points for the "right kind" of jobs - for instance hiring black people detracts from the fundamental racism of the entire scheme (really, why should schmuck be deemed entitled to "fair wage" because his mother dropped him on his head in new jersey rather than golania ?) and so it's + points etcetera.
~ 30 minutes ~
20:24 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/077A20A5523E2ADC680337DFCE7F66794A3F561B115D6AD464859C54AE92FF0B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1425...6089 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.43.184.74 (ssh-rsa key from 195.43.184.74 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (74.184.43.195.dsl.static.ip.kpnqwest.it. IT)
20:24 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/077A20A5523E2ADC680337DFCE7F66794A3F561B115D6AD464859C54AE92FF0B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1378...5053 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.43.184.74 (ssh-rsa key from 195.43.184.74 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (74.184.43.195.dsl.static.ip.kpnqwest.it. IT)
~ 38 minutes ~
21:02 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0925662600EC3B6B87495B322B8CDFFD2AF576506127441EF21596CA422FFD4C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1627...0547 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.138.104.66 (ssh-rsa key from 94.138.104.66 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail2.cpsul.cz. CZ 427 US)
21:02 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0925662600EC3B6B87495B322B8CDFFD2AF576506127441EF21596CA422FFD4C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1612...5023 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.138.104.66 (ssh-rsa key from 94.138.104.66 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail2.cpsul.cz. CZ 427 US)
~ 27 minutes ~
21:30 asciilifeform in very other lulz, https://media.guim.co.uk/4a2b95b94d8e10acc053c5a61f2f0c317ca6bd91/0_266_4096_2462/4096.jpg
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
22:37 mircea_popescu eh ffs.
22:41 mircea_popescu !!up snowbound33
22:41 deedbot snowbound33 voiced for 30 minutes.
22:42 snowbound33 what is this place?
22:42 mircea_popescu this is the forum of the most serene republic. and who might you be ?
22:43 snowbound33 I was invited here recently by someone online. I'm here under an anon account trying to figure out what it is, and if I will regret joining under my real freenode account
22:43 mircea_popescu hm.
22:44 mircea_popescu oh wait, are you the simon whatever of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606755 ?
22:44 a111 Logged on 2017-01-25 23:42 ben_vulpes: in other gabriel_laddel comments that have babe army swooning: https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/
22:44 snowbound33 depends what /whois says about this account
22:45 mircea_popescu how do you mean ?
22:45 snowbound33 yeah it me. I'm not aware of whatever discussion that is
22:45 mircea_popescu ah so people here liked your article, basically.
22:45 snowbound33 I didn't write days of rage you know
22:45 mircea_popescu there's a log, you can search through it with
22:46 mircea_popescu !#s itemz
22:46 a111 1 result for "itemz", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=itemz
22:46 mircea_popescu there's also a web interface.
22:47 snowbound33 well thanks. Will read
22:47 mircea_popescu anyway, there's a whole pile of stuff. but no, i didn't think you wrote the book you reviewed.
22:48 snowbound33 no, sorry, I didn't write that article about the book. That was a guest post
22:48 mircea_popescu ah, really ?
22:48 mircea_popescu totally missed that part.
22:50 snowbound33 it was adapted from a tweetstorm a few days earlier by https://twitter.com/hradzka/
22:50 mircea_popescu i c
22:57 snowbound33 I'll come back here at some point in the near future. I'm holding off for now, I want to set up a bouncer first if I'm going to be active in irc again
22:57 mircea_popescu also look into the pgp reg thng
22:57 mircea_popescu thing*
~ 50 minutes ~
23:48 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6ECC4347EFFB69FFA5AC4BA2A9C6B4E23BEA12FE444B564A46BA046018340A6F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1358...9579 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.14.12 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.14.12 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (wayne.noopsis.fr. FR)
23:48 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6ECC4347EFFB69FFA5AC4BA2A9C6B4E23BEA12FE444B564A46BA046018340A6F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1598...2297 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.14.12 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.14.12 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (wayne.noopsis.fr. FR)
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