01:15 |
vex |
$ticker btc usd |
01:16 |
asciilifeform |
vex: bot awol |
01:16 |
vex |
i see |
01:17 |
vex |
38400 according to bitcoinity |
01:20 |
vex |
!e view-balance 1comboyNsev2ubWRbPZpxxNhghLfonzuN |
01:20 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 721265 |
01:20 |
trbexplorer |
value_sats: 311707787 |
01:20 |
trbexplorer |
value_btc: 3.11707787 |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
01:50 |
vex |
[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-27#1069796] Is pest going to improve my wot experience? Why the fuck should I rate every aquaintance -10 to 10 for all to see? |
01:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-12-27 13:16:35 asciilifeform: sees pest, in 'big picture', as a generalization of the wot, rather than simply replacement for ircism. |
01:51 |
vex |
I don't like the wot that I've seen. it seems basic |
01:56 |
vex |
rate wot 1, does what it says on the box |
02:00 |
vex |
alf's bytebrief nomenclature re signing patches is much more appealing |
02:01 |
asciilifeform |
'how will square roots serve me?'(tm)(r)(mp) |
02:01 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2018-03-22 asciilifeform: i'ma let mircea_popescu give the one-troo summary if he feels like ( it's his article ) but will say, it was about the archetypical f-student schoolbois's canonical lament 'what good will learning square roots do for me' |
02:02 |
asciilifeform |
vex: signatures of vpatches or anyffin else for that matter are meaningless outside of a wot. |
02:03 |
asciilifeform |
why rate people? obv. you can live w/out rating people. or for that matter, some manage to live more or less w/out talking to people at all |
02:03 |
shinohai |
looooooool |
02:04 |
vex |
I think I understand, but why just rate floormonkeys? could there not be a standard for man or machine? |
02:04 |
asciilifeform |
one doesn't rate people, or machines, for that matter, but pubkeys. |
02:04 |
asciilifeform |
elementarily. |
02:05 |
vex |
so why share an array of 1-10 with erryone? |
02:06 |
asciilifeform |
vex: what kinda array, and with whom, wouldja prefer to share? |
02:07 |
vex |
I've never rated anyone |
02:07 |
asciilifeform |
vex: was it strictly b/c in signpost's thing it's 1-10, and vex cannot abide this, needs e.g. 1-64 ? |
02:07 |
vex |
Why should I send that too all and sundry? |
02:08 |
vex |
1-64 is better |
02:08 |
asciilifeform |
soo, to whom exactly, would send then? |
02:10 |
vex |
o.0 |
02:12 |
vex |
i need to ponder this more. what was signpost's thing? |
02:12 |
asciilifeform |
the classical wot |
02:14 |
asciilifeform |
iirc we discussed hypothetical pestronic wot, where yer peers can ask for yer ratings. and imho this wins, but strictly because eliminates the need for 'wot lives on 1 d00d's www', rather than because it makes any kinda sense to keep ratings seekrit |
| |
↖ |
02:15 |
vex |
seems correct, then I can tell somone one thing and sonelks another |
| |
↖ ↖ |
02:15 |
asciilifeform |
and imho ideally ratings would be visible to one's pestnet via broadcast |
02:15 |
asciilifeform |
vex: elaborate: why wouldja want to do this? |
02:16 |
vex |
not sure. I've had a couple of cocktails. the thing that always bugs me is that wot ratings seem like privledges info |
02:16 |
asciilifeform |
seems like a certain path to getting rated '-64: schizo' by errybody, eventually |
| |
↖ |
02:17 |
vex |
perhaps |
02:17 |
whaack |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077257 <> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077286 |
02:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 13:00:46 cgra: whaack: i'm possibly not aware of all implications, but i keep contemplating a 'pesttronic block explorer' accepting read-only sql queries from wot |
02:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 14:23:19 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077257 << imho the correct place for a block exploder is ultimately a pseudoserver within trb noad per se, locally |
02:18 |
vex |
for instance, I might trust you to use my computer, but not my car |
| |
↖ |
02:19 |
whaack |
cgra: yes, i think somewhere in the logs i discussed how i wanted to open up the ability to do any general sql read query |
02:19 |
mats |
an o(1) lookup would be great |
02:19 |
mats |
think there's mugs selling api access to bitcoin in bigquery |
02:19 |
vex |
I don't want to tell everyone that you're not invited to drive my car |
02:20 |
asciilifeform |
vex: so don't ? |
02:21 |
mats |
nvm, its free |
02:21 |
asciilifeform |
mats: best of all'd be a o(1) lookup ~in own trb noad~ db |
02:21 |
whaack |
but making this feature is not a priority because as asciilifeform says, your blockexplorer should be run locally |
02:21 |
mats |
thats what i meant |
02:22 |
asciilifeform |
all the req'd parts are there. 'just add glue' |
02:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db . |
02:22 |
whaack |
it's pretty nice to be able to look up my addresses and the addresses of ppl i do biz with without having to share that lookup data with anyone |
02:22 |
vex |
I'll think on it asciilifeform, and you can drive my car. There's vodka in the glovebox |
02:23 |
asciilifeform |
why ty vex . |
02:23 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: correct. if you think about it, is rather what trb is ~for~ to begin with -- agreeing on the troo state of a shared db. |
02:23 |
whaack |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077261 << do you have suggestions for improvement? |
| |
↖ |
02:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 13:27:15 signpost: the IRC request -> paste response mechanism is a rough approximation that can be much improved. |
02:23 |
asciilifeform |
in that light makes very little sense to 'how do i moar conveniently share this db w/ selected people' |
02:24 |
mats |
shouldn't this lookup functionality already be in bitcoind |
02:24 |
asciilifeform |
mats: well e.g. prb doesn't even index anyffin outside of 'utxo' |
02:24 |
asciilifeform |
( trb -- does, but there's 0 useful db glue that'd letcha query externally ) |
02:25 |
mats |
sounds like a plan |
02:26 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: likewise, pest (as currently pictured in spec) lets you invite peers to make db queries when it makes sense . i.e. 'getdata' cmd. |
02:26 |
asciilifeform |
can't think of too many cases where 'expose arbitrary sql queries' is the obvious Right Thing tho |
02:27 |
asciilifeform |
normally there's a much moar narrowly-definable thing yer actually aiming to do |
02:30 |
whaack |
exposing arbitrary sql queries immediately makes me think one is in a 'research and development' mindset |
| |
↖ |
02:30 |
asciilifeform |
it's just shorta giving sumbody shell on yer box |
02:31 |
asciilifeform |
yes, sometimes you might like to |
02:31 |
vex |
^tax free in oz al la dr wrong |
02:31 |
asciilifeform |
but for most collaborations it aint req'd and in fact rather 'heavyweight' |
02:31 |
whaack |
haha right, might as well do that ! |
02:32 |
asciilifeform |
it's rather like giving friends keys to your house. (or even, say, garage.) yes, sometimes people do this. but not often needed, and most folx would rather you didn't give'em |
02:37 |
asciilifeform |
to extend -- most folx manage to have social life w/out giving erryone they socialize with keys to their car. |
02:38 |
vex |
i'd be uncomfortable in a borrowed car. |
02:39 |
asciilifeform |
you similarly prolly wouldn't ~want~ to have a drawer w/ n d00ds' car keys in it. |
02:39 |
asciilifeform |
~0 good is likely to come of it. |
02:40 |
vex |
verily |
02:40 |
asciilifeform |
see also e.g. |
02:40 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: there is a related soviet joke. abramowitch (generic jew, not the oligarch) calls a friend who was over for dinner last night: |
02:40 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: 'we're short of a few silver spoons. shame on you'; |
02:40 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: friend denies |
02:40 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: next day, A calls again 'we found the spoons. but the stain on your reputation... it remains.' |
02:42 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl. |
02:42 |
* |
vex goes to took if the big bloke reported lulz |
02:43 |
vex |
I luld |
02:44 |
vex |
It'd be a summary offence if alf left the vodka untouched |
02:51 |
vex |
mats. where's the value at? |
02:52 |
vex |
how do we price .ykp? |
02:56 |
vex |
I feel like I can speak on behalf of mats; stfu vex |
02:59 |
vex |
BingoBoingo. I hope like fuck you're working hard at a new endeavour. proof of life pls |
03:04 |
vex |
good news bad news. something cunt |
03:06 |
vex |
perhaps I can extend my small mind to some other awesome floormonkeys |
03:07 |
vex |
billymg. I read your lappy install |
03:07 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077468 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077268 |
03:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:24:07 whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077261 << do you have suggestions for improvement? |
03:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 13:41:01 signpost: but upstack, the logical progression of IRC botworks is being able to (deedbot:deed "signed payload to be deeded") into pest, and receive back an ack that it was heard. |
03:09 |
signpost |
nothing wrong with what's being done now. eventually it'd be nice to have a structured message format for bots, with which we'd, for example, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077442 |
| |
↖ |
03:09 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:14:40 asciilifeform: iirc we discussed hypothetical pestronic wot, where yer peers can ask for yer ratings. and imho this wins, but strictly because eliminates the need for 'wot lives on 1 d00d's www', rather than because it makes any kinda sense to keep ratings seekrit |
03:10 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077443 << this makes you a lying shitbag if you make a habit of it, ftr. |
03:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:15:19 vex: seems correct, then I can tell somone one thing and sonelks another |
03:10 |
signpost |
if your relationships don't matter to you, nor honor, wot's not going to make a drop of sense. |
03:10 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077447 << yes. |
03:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:17:06 asciilifeform: seems like a certain path to getting rated '-64: schizo' by errybody, eventually |
03:11 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077452 << ah. access permission is a separate thing from wot. |
03:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:18:22 vex: for instance, I might trust you to use my computer, but not my car |
03:12 |
signpost |
using wot like a "score" which grants you permission to do things perverts it, becomes a performative-before-eyes-of-dictatorship social credit score. |
| |
↖ |
03:13 |
vex |
i pri don't understand it. |
03:13 |
vex |
not trying to pervert anything |
03:14 |
* |
signpost just stating ftr. |
03:14 |
signpost |
such that you understand moar |
03:14 |
* |
vex appreciates the insight |
03:15 |
signpost |
that said distributed "turo" or w/e is interesting; I've pondered it a lot too |
03:16 |
vex |
? whats turo |
03:16 |
signpost |
airbnb-clone for car rentals. |
03:17 |
vex |
ah. it's a serial killer local in oz |
03:17 |
billymg |
vex: nice, what'd you think of the article? |
03:17 |
signpost |
yeah, quite a lot of these. I'm not sure whether they work without the pile of VC money flowing into insurance, at least in fiat world. |
| |
↖ |
03:18 |
vex |
haven't fully parsed it billymg. nice to know it's there |
03:18 |
billymg |
glad to hear it, more on the way too |
| |
~ 31 minutes ~ |
03:50 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFedv7ZoV7M back from the brink |
04:02 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW3pZjmS3rg |
| |
~ 47 minutes ~ |
04:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077509 << for most bot-to-bot cases, would expect sexpr would work a++ |
| |
↖ |
04:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 22:09:55 signpost: nothing wrong with what's being done now. eventually it'd be nice to have a structured message format for bots, with which we'd, for example, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077442 |
04:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077529 << recently asciilifeform had occasion to purchase anuther auto insurance policy; bulk of the paperwork was filled by 'yes i swear it won't be driven for profit or lent out, yes ack that this immediately voids the policy' etc etc |
| |
↖ |
04:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 22:18:07 signpost: yeah, quite a lot of these. I'm not sure whether they work without the pile of VC money flowing into insurance, at least in fiat world. |
04:54 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077518 << thinking about this, the only ratings which have mechanizable meaning are 0 and posint |
| |
↖ |
04:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 22:13:08 signpost: using wot like a "score" which grants you permission to do things perverts it, becomes a performative-before-eyes-of-dictatorship social credit score. |
04:54 |
asciilifeform |
errything else -- cosmetic |
04:54 |
asciilifeform |
0 readily corresponds to 'not peered', posint -- 'peer' |
04:56 |
asciilifeform |
yes being able to 'rate bozo -10 he fucks goats' is on some level satisfying. but asciilifeform dun recall a single occasion where 'hm i think i'll do biz with bozo... oh hm waitaminute my l1 folx rated him -10 fucks pigs.. hm nm' |
04:57 |
asciilifeform |
a persistent bozo invariably bakes new key and turns to 0 whenever he feels like it |
04:58 |
asciilifeform |
hence 'cosmetic'. |
| |
~ 43 minutes ~ |
05:41 |
scoopbot |
New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: Tabular Programming: Roman Numerals |
| |
↖ |
05:43 |
verisimilitude |
Due to CSS and whatnot, the Gopher version is far better. |
05:49 |
verisimilitude |
I'm quite proud of this article, being much longer than what's usual for me. |
| |
~ 2 hours 8 minutes ~ |
07:57 |
cgra |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077478 << prolly exactly the angle i was looking from (trb study). otoh, has same effect, and gets you two birds with one stone, when you get to publish the explorer sources >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077257 |
07:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:30:52 whaack: exposing arbitrary sql queries immediately makes me think one is in a 'research and development' mindset |
07:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 13:00:46 cgra: whaack: i'm possibly not aware of all implications, but i keep contemplating a 'pesttronic block explorer' accepting read-only sql queries from wot |
08:09 |
cgra |
signpost: would it work/make sense to you to make pastes linked in pest messages (seen by your station) permanent? |
08:09 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-29 15:04:28 asciilifeform: sick and tired of the expiring pastes; signpost do you suppose it's possible to mark pastes which appear in log as non-expiring..? |
08:15 |
cgra |
i can see a theme here: 'i don't have my own yet, can i borrow yours?' explorer. paste bin. |
| |
~ 8 hours 12 minutes ~ |
16:28 |
signpost |
cgra: yep, I'm of the "why would we put another drop of effort into a centralized service" school. |
16:28 |
signpost |
pastes are a napkin. if you want it to stick around, why wouldn't you blog it? |
16:29 |
signpost |
that said, I think an easily mutable hypertext system shared among members of a wot (on top of a pest-implemented DHT) would be a mighty fine thing. |
16:30 |
signpost |
oughta see all current, centralized items as shitty approximations of the right thing, imho. |
16:30 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
16:30 |
signpost |
one paste-tron < many paste-trons < making social (in the old, correct sense) hypertext real. |
16:31 |
signpost |
that said I haven't flushed the toilet on the paster in a while; it just gets jammed up now and again with spam |
16:31 |
signpost |
I could perhaps add a human test to the thing and stop flushing meanwhile |
16:32 |
* |
shinohai rather enjoys having own paste-o-tron for passing along ephemeral, "napkiny" thingz .... |
16:34 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077534 << yeah, and bit-packing schemes can run into idiocy real quick if done incorrectly. |
16:34 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 23:50:17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077509 << for most bot-to-bot cases, would expect sexpr would work a++ |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: from asciilifeform's pov -- the only things which belong in protocol are the ones req'd for pestron to operate |
16:35 |
* |
signpost has enjoyed the "nothing until absolutely needed" approach with pentacle. babby just grew a "world file" yesterday, has a sha256 of the src and build-script that yielded the installed item, so it can know when it's necessary to rebuild. |
16:35 |
signpost |
yep |
16:36 |
signpost |
re: pentacle going to hold off on a release until I refactor more. there are a few gentooisms it needs yet before properly worth others' time. |
16:38 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077536 << funny that these renting out their cars, rooms, wives, see themselves as business owners, and not the impoverished. |
16:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 23:53:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077529 << recently asciilifeform had occasion to purchase anuther auto insurance policy; bulk of the paperwork was filled by 'yes i swear it won't be driven for profit or lent out, yes ack that this immediately voids the policy' etc etc |
16:38 |
signpost |
as if no other society ever came to this. |
16:39 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077538 << agreed that friend/foe is basically a bit; one can't rent your car with "just the tip" |
16:39 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 23:54:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077518 << thinking about this, the only ratings which have mechanizable meaning are 0 and posint |
16:40 |
signpost |
where nuance is needed in regards to *classification* of humans known, probably a different layer entirely. |
16:41 |
signpost |
say, a deeded contract good for 6mos of rentals at signpost's rust-bucket lot, after which deedbot requires a proof of insurance to issue another 6mos. |
16:42 |
signpost |
good to let separate things be separate, and not try to beat wot into something for machines too. |
16:42 |
signpost |
if you crash the car, then the human comes along and "-5 caused us $40k loss" and revokes access to the cars. |
16:43 |
* |
signpost leery of making the human decisions automatic, likely leads to chinese dystopia. |
16:46 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: imho the very impulse to 'autoclassify' meat comes from star topology hell |
16:46 |
asciilifeform |
from pov of well-curated wot, it simply wouldn't occur to anyone |
16:50 |
signpost |
indeed, smacks of factory farming. |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
from asciilifeform's pov, a >dunbar-sized wot, where such 'automations' seem useful, is an atrocity to begin with |
| |
↖ ↖ |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. exactly 'chinese dystopia', where 'cattle management' semi-automated so to give politburo moar time for yachts & cocaine |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
and the relationship of such thing to a wot -- strictly cosmetic, rather like a shitcoin's relationship to bitcoin |
17:04 |
asciilifeform |
worth noting that the star topologists quite deliberately cultivate this confusion (i.e. b/w p2p wot and gestapo automation). for rather obvious aim of stoking anonytardism. |
| |
↖ |
17:10 |
* |
asciilifeform lost count of how many n00bs in past decade 'ohnoez, i won't bake a pubkey, how could i possibly win from having a contiguous public identity, only gestapo can win from it' etc |
| |
↖ |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
( see e.g. most recent thrd ) |
17:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 17:30:55 asciilifeform: all anonymity does is to destroy the very possibility of human relations. |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 1 hours 49 minutes ~ |
19:04 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: i crunched through hashes and difficulty targets of block heights ~600k..650k and found that ~17% of them had one or more top bits equal. now i'm confused again how is the kingergarten logic peculiar. that many matching top bits suggests to me not every miner aims [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077390][one top bit lower than the |
19:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 09:10:21 asciilifeform: cgra: this seems like a peculiar way to calculate the 'overwork', considering that the diff is quantized by the upper bits and the bottom segment being 'less' dun help |
19:04 |
cgra |
target] |
19:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 10:52:16 cgra: asciilifeform: re "quantized by upper bits", do you mean mining works more efficiently if in case of minimum difficulty, you aim at or under 000000007fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff instead? ie. guaranteed less top bits than the threshold |
19:04 |
cgra |
top bits equal meaning here for example in the extreme case, block 0000000000000000000e95d1cabfbb9dec4469bf0eb17645187acc848aeb1349, whose target value is 0000000000000000000e95de0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
19:05 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: when 2+ blox 'meet diff', the 1 w/ 'moar' pow wins |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 2 hours 25 minutes ~ |
21:31 |
bonechewer |
I'm sure this will be an unpopular take, but imho trust is too situational a thing for a single number to quantify it meaningfully. Case in point: Rob Landley, author of toybox, is a competent coder, but also a very damaged person. How does one express that in an integer? |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
21:58 |
signpost |
do you have a personal relationship with the guy? |
21:58 |
signpost |
and even knowing a person isn't the same as expressing that they're part of your l1. |
22:01 |
signpost |
yeah, reading this drivel, I'd assume thimbronion would not rate *him*, but perhaps would sign a vpatch of some of his work. |
22:01 |
signpost |
whoops *bonechewer |
22:02 |
signpost |
"this item is useful" is quite different than "I know and have dealt directly with this person" |
22:10 |
signpost |
fwiw I grant the arbitrary nature of ratings, and have considered whether it'd be better as an ordered list of peers. |
22:11 |
signpost |
this is what we're saying, aren't we? that we regard this one with a bit more trust/esteem than that one. |
22:11 |
signpost |
perhaps doing so would force folks to choose between folks where they don't wish to, at least publically. |
22:12 |
signpost |
given that, seems letting people assign numeric values within the positive and negative space is useful, to avoid communicating difference where one isn't perceived. |
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22:16 |
signpost |
regarding whether it's valuable to communicate one's relationships publically, this is imho the only alternative to the poisonous rot of modern, corrupted, false-faced interaction. |
22:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 21:15:19 vex: seems correct, then I can tell somone one thing and sonelks another |
22:16 |
signpost |
to have a space that is singular, and public, at all. |
22:18 |
* |
signpost is curious whether some folks thought tmsr invented "republic", rather than imitated forms long-standing in history. |
22:30 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-01#1077595 << never once heard of this lolcow, and nfi wai busybox 'needed' to be reimplemented 'from scratch' fwiw |
22:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-02-01 16:31:34 bonechewer: I'm sure this will be an unpopular take, but imho trust is too situational a thing for a single number to quantify it meaningfully. Case in point: Rob Landley, author of toybox, is a competent coder, but also a very damaged person. How does one express that in an integer? |
22:32 |
* |
asciilifeform observes that in not one instance did asciilifeform ever see a 'x programs competently, tho damaged person(tm)', dig in, and 'hm yes we could never do without x's $program' |
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22:32 |
asciilifeform |
erry single fucking time it's some poetteringism. |
22:33 |
asciilifeform |
often enuff, as in this case, a 'libreboot'-style attempted hijacking of sumthing or other. |
22:35 |
signpost |
http://landley.net/toybox/about.html << sounds like mostly a gpl vs bsd license thing. |
22:35 |
signpost |
but this guy's "blog" drivel would make me hesitate to touch any of his work. |
22:36 |
asciilifeform |
lol! 'ohai lemme help crapple & microshit parasitize on opensores!' ? |
22:36 |
signpost |
yeah, android in this case, hue |
22:36 |
asciilifeform |
seems entirely typical of genre. |
22:36 |
signpost |
anyway, was actually hoping bonechewer would bother a response. I wasn't making a speech. |
22:37 |
asciilifeform |
'The smartphone is replacing the PC' didjaknow. |
22:37 |
signpost |
and the cardboard flat the brick house. |
22:39 |
asciilifeform |
an' ground-up roaches -- coffee, etc. aha. |
22:39 |
asciilifeform |
what asciilifeform finds interesting is that in no case to date these folx leave any doubt re what they are |
22:40 |
signpost |
implementing posix userland with decent code doesn't require any greatness of character, just obedience to spec. |
22:40 |
asciilifeform |
or even vaguely provoke the q of 'well he's loathesome but his softs are a++, wat do' |
22:40 |
signpost |
entirely compatible with screeching about "can't sleep because youtube wont recognize the plight of the whatevers" |
22:40 |
asciilifeform |
in errycase to date iirc, the tree and fruit are equally poisonous. |
22:41 |
signpost |
mhm, no argument to contrary. |
22:41 |
* |
signpost wishes the empires that produced these subbie slaves would clean up after them. |
22:42 |
signpost |
they don't work without the apparatus that directed them. |
22:42 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-01#1077604 << asciilifeform historically dissatisfied with scalar ratings but they're still a hellafalot better than nuffin |
22:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-02-01 17:12:41 signpost: given that, seems letting people assign numeric values within the positive and negative space is useful, to avoid communicating difference where one isn't perceived. |
22:44 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: yeah, was a friendly challenge to the gent to justify his "take". usually these reveal uninspected capitulation in the person's notion of "relationship". |
22:44 |
bonechewer |
Sorry for the lack of response, signpost! Phone rang for $DAYJOB before I managed to type /away |
22:44 |
signpost |
logs are async, just baiting you over here! |
22:44 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: the apparatus maintains a caste of parasites with chronic ennui, these spin in place agitproping, 'opensoresing', etc. on own steam, attempting to quench unquenchable thirst of 'feeling significant' |
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22:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-17 19:35:30 asciilifeform: it's a terrifying egowound to the typical derpware author (esp. if addicted to 'feeling significant' -- 'how will i stay at the center of things if a proggy can be finished??!!' ) |
22:45 |
signpost |
this notion of relationship is well worth arguing into form, imho. |
22:45 |
signpost |
"hasn't backstabbed me yet" doesn't meet the bar. |
22:47 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: at one time asciilifeform thought 'monkey who sits and rewrites bsd plagiarization of gpl proggy is gunning for crumbs from microshit table' but nao suspect it aint this, aint the '30 silvers' that motivate. |
22:47 |
signpost |
yeah, there's nobody in there. no soul to sell. |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
there's nowhere near enuff crumbs dispensed from that table to explain. |
22:48 |
signpost |
NPC with a hole where the script goes in. |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
well there's certainly a script. they all seem to run exactly same one. |
22:48 |
bonechewer |
In any case, I am glad to provoke discussion. RL (whom I don't know personally) may not be the best example, but I do know (e.g.) competent hardware designers who enthusiastically not only vote but proselytize pantsuit |
22:49 |
signpost |
bonechewer: this is the classical distinction between free and slave. |
22:49 |
bonechewer |
It causes me massive cognitive dissonance, but I can only speculate as to how they got this way |
22:49 |
bonechewer |
signpost: what distinction are you refering to |
22:49 |
* |
asciilifeform has yet to run into any such creature |
22:50 |
signpost |
bonechewer: they don't ask the question you do. it's not "what is true" in there, just "what is ordered". |
22:50 |
signpost |
or even baser, just "what doesn't hurt" |
22:51 |
asciilifeform |
this supposed compulsion, it dun exist either, asciilifeform not 1nce to date heard 'well we'd give you this contract but we looked at yer www and you haven't even once agitated for clitler, kthx bye' |
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22:52 |
asciilifeform |
seen over9000 folx allege this to exist, but never 1nce met this loch ness monster. |
22:52 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: a person can be captive by the urge to be holy within religion, rather than fear of hell. |
22:53 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. mp was convinced that this 'universal' nao in all commercial reich, went to davy jones's locker still convinced |
22:53 |
bonechewer |
for contract work I believe it, but recruiters tell me that resumes for engineering manager jobs these days are expected to burn a pinch of incense in worship of Diversity, Inclusion, Equity |
22:54 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: I see most people as what was left over after millenia of culling the less obedient ones. |
22:54 |
signpost |
we did the same with dogs and livestock |
22:54 |
signpost |
bonechewer: this is most certainly the case. |
22:55 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: perhaps macroexpand. you're saying mp thought the cowards live in fear of compulsion to serve the reich? |
22:58 |
* |
signpost will meanwhile restate his view. |
22:58 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: was speaking of the notion that no one in reich does any longer anyffin resembling commercial softs work w/out 'fellating hr mammies' and heiling clitler etc. |
22:58 |
* |
asciilifeform tries to dig up illustrative thrd, but nodice, evidently was phrased differently there |
22:58 |
signpost |
ah, nah, even the ones that do, it's cynical. |
22:58 |
signpost |
"yeah whatever, in the name of the father, son, holy ghost, amen" |
22:59 |
signpost |
it's barely alive. |
22:59 |
signpost |
my view is that there's a type of human that actively seeks out "the rules", lives to enforce them upon self and others. |
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23:00 |
bonechewer |
signpost: no doubt some but the hw designer I mentioned posts Diversity stuff even on his personal facebook where only his l1 can read it and volunteers at a grrl-power coding camp |
23:00 |
signpost |
this same creature can both "yes mommy" to posix and the castrated male thing. |
23:00 |
bonechewer |
i.e., true believer in globohomo. Perhaps goes hand-in-hand with overt hostility to conventional religion. |
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23:00 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: i can think of >1 reason to 'volunteer' at 'grrl' xyz |
23:01 |
signpost |
:D |
23:01 |
signpost |
quite fun to teach women to code, done it plenty. |
23:01 |
bonechewer |
asciilifeform: that would be your reason or mine, but these are high school girls, he has a wife and is not looking to go to jail |
23:01 |
asciilifeform |
(recall e.g. dan mocsny's piece re how he attended evangelical church for many yrs after becoming an atheist, simply to pick up chix) |
23:01 |
bonechewer |
signpost: true, teaching my daughter to coad is A++ run |
23:02 |
bonechewer |
*fun |
23:02 |
signpost |
boys are in my experience quicker to turn sour and start bitching. they're usually weaker. |
23:04 |
signpost |
anyway, upstack, these rule-repeaters are stability mechanisms that utterly *cannot think* that whatever the ambient rule-system they fell out of their mothers into is wrong. |
23:04 |
bonechewer |
signpost: that is an appealing explanation except that wokeness is so new, was only nascent in late '90s when the folx I am thinking of were in university |
23:04 |
signpost |
perhaps at various points this strategy permitted social status a hair above the bottom, so it worked. |
23:05 |
signpost |
man castration cults are ancient |
23:05 |
signpost |
take your pick. |
23:07 |
bonechewer |
hmm, it may not be important but I don't grasp your conjecture. Are you saying even pre-woke USA was a man-castration cult? |
23:07 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1073873 << "removing the thing that gives you power will grant you a higher power" |
23:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-18 13:41:45 signpost: cults must cause adherents to internalize a contradiction; it permits arbitrary command. |
23:08 |
* |
asciilifeform contents that the subj folx are found in appreciable #s in some, evidently, organizations, and not others; and is worth thinking about why |
23:09 |
bonechewer |
how did globohomo achieve the status of ambient rule-system, though? When many of its adherents were kids, homosexuality was still considered undesirable |
23:10 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-01#1077670 << traditional religion wasn't dishing out the kind of hardcore bdsm it used to, needed more potent pain. |
23:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-02-01 18:01:08 bonechewer: i.e., true believer in globohomo. Perhaps goes hand-in-hand with overt hostility to conventional religion. |
23:10 |
bonechewer |
and to be clear: the fellow I am thinking of is not a homosexual, merely a fellow traveler |
23:10 |
signpost |
what do you meany by "globohomo" here? |
23:11 |
bonechewer |
sorry, it is common shorthand in bonechewer's online circles for the belief system of the reich: subjugate orcistans and make them host Pride Parades |
23:12 |
signpost |
ah yeah, afghan women's chess club and etc |
23:12 |
signpost |
this marxist cultural revolution thing was probably being actively fed in the US by geopolitical enemies, for one. |
23:13 |
signpost |
but internal cultural weakness is enough. |
23:13 |
bonechewer |
Perhaps geopolitical enemies started feeding it once they noticed it, but it seems to be an organic development in USA |
23:14 |
bonechewer |
A Christian heresy that discarded Christianity |
23:14 |
signpost |
you don't see a lineage from modern leftism back into protestant christianity? |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
ftr asciilifeform's cosmography re subj. |
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23:15 |
signpost |
imho identity politics grew directly out of "own personal jesus" |
23:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-04-22 14:00:13 asciilifeform: 'let'em fight an imaginary race war in forum comments, maybe won't notice their savings evaporating' etc |
23:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-04-22 14:01:38 asciilifeform: this is a '50s-era decision, btw. originally made, in usa, to destroy the unions. |
23:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 19:23:44 asciilifeform: lizards in usa 'solved' the 'unions problem' by getting rid of labour, creating caste of lumpens on left side of bell curve and caste of paper shufflers on right side, with the sleight-of-hand moar than sufficing to ramp down expectations of life for all of'em |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
'identity politic'(tm)(r) was an artfully constructed boojum to defuse labour movement. worked a++. |
23:15 |
bonechewer |
signpost: exactly that! In New England, the Puritan churches founded in the 1600s now have rainbow and BLM flags out front |
23:16 |
signpost |
yep, quite a pill against solidarity of any kind. |
23:16 |
signpost |
bonechewer: yeah, but this isn't something good that rotted. once you ask random dipshits what god said to them, you're doomed. |
23:17 |
signpost |
"uh, he said whatever makes me uncomfortable isn't a thing" |
23:18 |
bonechewer |
yes, Puritanism was the direct ancestor of today's leftism |
23:19 |
signpost |
quite agree. |
23:19 |
* |
signpost bbl, errand |
23:19 |
bonechewer |
see ya, signpost |
23:20 |
* |
bonechewer should apologize for opening this whole depressing can of worms with musings on wot |
23:25 |
bonechewer |
Of greater interest (at least to me) is this Twitter thread with blow-by-blow account of getting an open source system-on-chip booting Linux in a Verilog simulator |
23:27 |
bonechewer |
It's an OpenPOWER clone on a 180nm process, so not going to revolutionise the world of computing, but still it would be nice for there to exist another Fritz-free CPU |