Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-02-03 | 2022-02-05 →
00:09 * bonechewer has been meaning to try Sabotage Linux for awhile
00:09 bonechewer I think it is systemd-free
00:10 bonechewer There is a somewhat curated list of systemd-free distros at
~ 44 minutes ~
00:54 billymg bonechewer: cool links, thanks for the reading material. encouraging to see as well
~ 37 minutes ~
01:31 asciilifeform bonechewer: nifty www, asciilifeform added to links bar on own site, ty
01:32 asciilifeform meanwhile, in upstack thrd -- happened across lulzy vintage mp re subj while digging through unrelated logz.
01:32 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 16:45:40 asciilifeform: at any rate, asciilifeform's pov on subj: by taking an 'amnesty', yer helping the otherwise quite sclerotic and feeble reich bureaucracy in ways which may later come to regret.
01:32 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-10-21 mircea_popescu: and in other news nobody gives a shit about : the argentine govt announced an "amnesty" whereby idiots with cash in strongboxes/matresses etc can "blanquear" it, by depositing it in a bank and paying 11% in tax ("to begin with"). same applies to foreign holdings.
01:32 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-10-21 mircea_popescu: this generous measure of voluntary self-rape "ends" on 31st, after being extended a coupla times. meanwhile the govt has been piling on debt at about 2x the rate of the kirscheristas.
01:38 thimbronion Who's putting their Bitcoin in a bank?
01:41 thimbronion The link I posted is in no way an amnesty. It's an admission of inability to control.
01:48 asciilifeform thimbronion: difficult to say imho what the intended scheme is, there. ( 'below 200 not reported' ? prolly will appear superficially troo, but in fact monitored just same as before, to catch 'cheaters' etc)
01:48 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 14:40:03 signpost: however there's such a thing as "structuring", which is illegal, and is defined as whatever the prosecutor likes.
01:50 asciilifeform come to think of it, the thing is vaguely reminiscent of lulzjurisdictions where 'under x gram of dope not prosecuted'
01:50 asciilifeform i.e. it aint a 'legalize'(tm)(r) but simply moar rational allocation of gestapo man-hrs
01:51 asciilifeform however was discussing the larger concept of 'come outta hiding, fellas, and we'll forgive yer crime of not paying wealth tax'
01:53 * asciilifeform apropos -- recently learned of the existence of such a thing as 'holocaust furniture' market in usa. antiques. turns out, for a brief time in '30s, german j00z were 'amnestied' and permitted to buy 'household' goodies and walk outta germany w/ same. boats fulla fine furniture went to usa.
01:55 asciilifeform funnily x9000, e.g. google only returns the lampshades etc. for 'holocaust furniture' string.
01:57 asciilifeform 'duck' finds it tho.
01:57 asciilifeform and so does 'yandex'.
01:58 asciilifeform pretty interesting difference.
02:01 thimbronion Haven't used google in months unless it occasionally slips in as default somewhere.
02:01 * asciilifeform uses 99% for compiler eggog strings
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
03:20 signpost << yeah, I haven't wrapped the building of gnat in the flag just yet, so gnat-capable gcc is the default, but works just fine.
03:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 18:30:04 asciilifeform: << hmm does the ada flag in fact produce a working gnat ?
03:20 signpost builds gprbuild, vtools
03:20 signpost << will in time
03:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 18:38:44 asciilifeform: << is there xorg tho ?
03:21 signpost any notes you have on what fought back would be welcome.
03:21 signpost << once I get this thing released, would very much welcome folks helping push.
03:21 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 19:09:22 bonechewer: has been meaning to try Sabotage Linux for awhile
03:22 signpost I think "sabotage" came up in my research on which distros had musl patches, unless I'm mistaken.
03:22 signpost ah yep and busybox. this is not far from my own goals.
03:22 signpost but I want V at the center of what'd otherwise be called "package management"
03:23 signpost << because I want not merely a shit-free linux, but one I can understand, at rest and in motion.
03:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 19:10:19 bonechewer: There is a somewhat curated list of systemd-free distros at
03:24 signpost << buy legal, sell illegal.
03:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 20:50:12 asciilifeform: come to think of it, the thing is vaguely reminiscent of lulzjurisdictions where 'under x gram of dope not prosecuted'
03:24 signpost because who gives a shit about the terminal node anyway.
03:34 verisimilitude For reference, this referred to this and not this.
03:34 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 00:22:22 verisimilitude: So, what do ye think of my latest article?
03:34 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-01 00:42:01 scoopbot: New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: Tabular Programming: Roman Numerals
03:34 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 00:43:31 scoopbot: New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: Intelligent Idiots
03:34 verisimilitude I just hold on to the idea that anonymous conversations can be worthwhile; I intend to write about some odd aspects of identity related to them, at some point.
03:34 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 09:42:06 asciilifeform: << i dun follow your syllogism, verisimilitude . 'some not worth having' ergo 'none are' ??
03:35 verisimilitude Simply put, whereas persistent identities lead to concerns over authenticity, I've found anonymous forums place the highest value on finished products.
03:36 verisimilitude So, it's the difference between an artist having a name, and an art style resulting in something new; people don't care about identity so much as what the identity ostensibly does.
03:39 verisimilitude I would've commented, but found it unnecessary; it was nice seeing my writing referenced so; I'd tried to guess what the piece would be about from the title alone, but was nicely surprised. I agree with the article.
03:39 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 14:49:31 scoopbot: New article on Loper OS: The Three Reasons For Source Code Publication.
03:39 verisimilitude I've spent the past few hours or so reading more about UNIX Sockets, utterly disgusted by them.
03:40 verisimilitude I want a sane system, under which making a UDP program doesn't require such drudgery.
03:40 verisimilitude I don't look forward to covering any of it up with Ada.
03:41 verisimilitude These systems encourage the most wasteful and insidious layering, due purely to the barbarity of the underlying layers, and none of the layers look good from a suitably high layer.
03:42 verisimilitude I'd be tempted to use xinetd for everything, but it seems using it with UDP doesn't spare one from this nonsense in any reasonable way.
03:45 verisimilitude It really is rotten to the core.
03:46 verisimilitude One thing I like about that approach I outlined is how it's suited to making software less conversational.
03:46 verisimilitude Software written in Lisp is usually conversational. The system is a conversation partner.
03:47 verisimilitude Since Lisp makes it hard to make guarantees, this is fine, because I tend to notice if my conversation partner has a heart attack and drops dead.
03:47 verisimilitude This is distinctly unsuited to what I want in most software, however, which is a servant. I want to give commands, be asked what to do in unavoidable failure cases, and then leave to come back to a finished job.
03:48 asciilifeform << fwiw asciilifeform already baked a udp spackle for ada and imho is unlikely that anybody will find how to usefully shave even 1 loc from it, thing's afaik minimal as it stands.
03:48 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 22:40:56 verisimilitude: I don't look forward to covering any of it up with Ada.
03:49 verisimilitude Doesn't it still block on receive?
03:49 asciilifeform verisimilitude: what wouldja prefer ? eating the cost of a signal on erry packet?!
03:50 verisimilitude Besides, it's too UNIX-flavoured for my tastes.
03:50 verisimilitude I want an interface that doesn't reek of the underlying system.
03:50 asciilifeform verisimilitude: how does the interface do so there ?
03:51 asciilifeform you call the rcvr w/ a port#, get 512 bytes when it comes back. similarly but in reverse gear to tx.
03:51 verisimilitude Fuck, I designed this in 2019 and haven't finished it yet:
03:52 asciilifeform loox rather moar unix-exposing than asciilifeform's btw
03:52 asciilifeform on the user end
03:52 verisimilitude It's just a protected object.
03:53 asciilifeform why wouldja let it choose random port, for instance ?
03:53 verisimilitude It's not useless behaviour.
03:53 verisimilitude This kind of thing is in the IETF RFC.
03:53 asciilifeform imho entirely useless. the ports #s are 100% predictable.
03:54 asciilifeform all kindsa liquishit is in the rfc.
03:54 asciilifeform if you dun spackle properly over it, then precisely 'reek of the unix' neh
03:54 verisimilitude Well, I've not finished it anyway.
03:54 verisimilitude It shouldn't be so fucking difficult to do anything.
03:54 asciilifeform why expose the checksum toggle, for instance. (on many systems it aint connected to anyffin ftr)
03:55 verisimilitude I wanted an ideal interface, and such was part of it.
03:55 asciilifeform verisimilitude: could try reading the linked 1, and see if you can find anyffin to cut.
03:55 asciilifeform chances are you won;t
03:55 verisimilitude Besides, I can't legally use it, and regardless of what we think of copyright, I want to be able to fully legally use it.
03:55 asciilifeform somehow other folx have no problem with this.
03:55 verisimilitude Sure, and others do.
03:56 asciilifeform b/w you & odin, i suppose
03:56 verisimilitude If I'm going to write everything else I use, I may as well write the interface code as well.
03:56 asciilifeform start w/ os then
03:57 verisimilitude The journey of one thousand miles starts with a single step, but one should think carefully of which direction to go in.
03:57 verisimilitude The more I learn, the less Lisp seems necessary.
03:58 verisimilitude There's that song ``God Wrote in Lisp''.
03:58 verisimilitude ``and God could not count grains of sand with a thirty-two bit word.''
03:58 asciilifeform 'and god could not count grains of sand, with a 32-bit word...' that one
03:58 asciilifeform aha lol
03:58 verisimilitude God could count grains of sand with a one hundred and twenty-eight bit word, however, couldn't he?
03:59 * asciilifeform met author
03:59 verisimilitude A reliable system can't have unbounded and vague values.
04:01 verisimilitude From that article:
04:01 verisimilitude ``Rather than represent code as data, it's better to eliminate the code entirely, I've grown to think.''
04:01 asciilifeform by all means, make w/ bounded values.
04:01 asciilifeform but there's sumtthing to be said for actually finishing a proggy.
04:01 asciilifeform and , moreover, for not simply making exactly same thing as already on the table.
04:01 verisimilitude Sure, but only when it be correct, when it be perfect.
04:01 asciilifeform cuz at that rate 20y from nao you'll be just about done rewriting what asciilifeform posted in '18.
04:02 asciilifeform and result will be ~same
04:02 asciilifeform make pefect. by all means.
04:02 verisimilitude Sure, but I'm not going to implement such cryptography any time soon.
04:02 verisimilitude I think I could make an exception for FFA, asciilifeform, because it's beautiful, from what I've read so far, but not a UDP binding.
04:03 asciilifeform plenty of actual open problems to bite into imho.
04:03 verisimilitude Yes.
04:04 asciilifeform understand tho, that proggy that never gets written, aint 'perfect'.
04:04 verisimilitude I'm much more interested in Elision right now than in anything else, which is also what led to that article.
04:04 * asciilifeform must bbl
04:04 verisimilitude Be well.
04:05 verisimilitude I'll also leave for now.
~ 26 minutes ~
04:31 whaack about to head to bed but found something interesting with my blockexplorer
04:32 whaack the script here shows that basically all miners (97% in this 100 block sample) are using p2pkh addresses to claim the coinbase tx
04:34 whaack the script uses the assumption that the first index of the coinbase output is the one taking the bulk of the prize, actually a pretty naive assumption but it has checked out for all the cases where i inspected it myself, i'll try to get around to writing a better one soon
~ 4 hours 14 minutes ~
08:48 crtdaydreams signpost:
08:56 crtdaydreams Lookin' at finally getting off my arse and getting (contributing?) pest
09:06 crtdaydreams verisimilitude: this added a few extra neurons to my noggin
09:08 crtdaydreams s/this
~ 16 minutes ~
09:24 crtdaydreams << ok ok, milk the cow dry. attitudes change.
09:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-01 12:10:15 asciilifeform: lost count of how many n00bs in past decade 'ohnoez, i won't bake a pubkey, how could i possibly win from having a contiguous public identity, only gestapo can win from it' etc
09:25 crtdaydreams jeez
~ 7 hours 48 minutes ~
17:14 asciilifeform << unsurprise imho. but a++ microscope work nonetheless
17:14 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 23:33:00 whaack: the script here shows that basically all miners (97% in this 100 block sample) are using p2pkh addresses to claim the coinbase tx
17:14 asciilifeform !w poll
17:14 watchglass Polling 14 nodes...
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=721804 (Operator: whaack)
17:14 watchglass : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804 (Operator: asciilifeform)
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.154s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804 (Operator: asciilifeform)
17:14 watchglass : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.321s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.324s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.375s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721160
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.332s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.594s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:14 watchglass : Alive: (0.314s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721804
17:16 watchglass : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
17:16 watchglass : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
18:46 whaack asciilifeform: yup, pretty obvious that miners would be taking their own coins in p2pkh addresses, but hadn't thought to check that until last night
18:52 asciilifeform whaack: difficult to think of any reason why they'd feed themselves segshit
18:53 asciilifeform if yer a lamer, then makes some kinda logic that 'easier to hitch ride in block if you segshit'. but if yer a miner?
18:53 asciilifeform and it's your block.
18:54 asciilifeform whaack: have you turned up even 1 instance of a miner issuing himself segshitolade?
~ 39 minutes ~
19:34 whaack asciilifeform: i've ran the script for 200 blocks and have seen it three times, here's one for example
19:34 * whaack links to heathen explorer because his own has no support for segwit and the address consequently does not display
19:36 whaack asciilifeform: i've been talking to quite a few ppl into bitcoin, and it is clear to me that segshit is a psyop. they are not willing choosing to use it to save "15% or more" on tx fees, they are DDoS'd by USG signal
19:37 whaack willingly*
~ 42 minutes ~
20:19 whaack i.e. i've heard the response 'why have i never heard of this?' when i explain the fork scenario more than once.
~ 1 hours 58 minutes ~
22:18 whaack pete_rizzo_: you make any progress on setting up a node?
22:28 bonechewer In keeping with vex's hunch, Fidelity billionairess Abby Johnson is on record as loving bitcoin and at one point was running a miner on the computer under her desk
22:28 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-02 20:32:05 vex: I think she might like bitcoin, just a hunch
22:30 bonechewer One of her minions paints a picture: " If you came to our building, you would see, you know, ant miners, several generations old, you know, propping open doors and people's credenzas and stuff."
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