| 00:18 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: nifty. not 100% sure why would want to use a dynamically-linked bitcoind tho (i.e. where 'ldd' returns anyffin) |
| 00:19 |
asciilifeform |
(ftr on a rotor's built ldd returns nuffin) |
| 00:20 |
asciilifeform |
on a musltronic gentoo, one oughta be able to , theoretically, build exactly same thing as rotor's output, but w/out the 'buildroot' liquishit in the process |
| |
↖ |
| 00:20 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. getting same exe) |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 00:46 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i almost mentioned that at the end of the article, i recalled the rotor built bins being static |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 01:23 |
signpost |
not botnet, but rather infrastructure for wot members. for example, I would happily trade cycles to remove a single point of failure for asciilifeform's www |
| |
↖ |
| 01:24 |
signpost |
"botnet" is the wrong metaphor, assumes all-comer boxen can be fungible. |
| 01:25 |
* |
signpost has one such application in his head, that for example his l1 may in time be able to purchase a burner laptop while traveling, and call down a usable system into it quickly from wot-net. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:27 |
signpost |
to hazard a sketch, I'd create a travel key, and distribute a disk image among friendlies in l1. after arrival, I'd ping those friendlies for a swarm download of the disk image with travel key, and appear on pestnet. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:29 |
* |
signpost would rather pay an in-wot person to run a signed job containing his blog and be spared the details of deployment than continue to do sysadmin work. |
| 01:30 |
signpost |
there are lots of such use-cases that are applications of decentralization among unequal participants. |
| 01:31 |
signpost |
now, if anybody has a *real* breakthrough in homomorphic encryption at >glacial processing speed, changes quite a bit. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:36 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077314 << works fine on my item. will get the thing into folks' hands sometime tomorrow, almost done massaging vpatches. |
| 01:36 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 19:21:00 asciilifeform: on a musltronic gentoo, one oughta be able to , theoretically, build exactly same thing as rotor's output, but w/out the 'buildroot' liquishit in the process |
| 01:37 |
signpost |
perhaps billymg wants to cut the vpatches for openssl, bdb, boost at that point |
| 01:38 |
signpost |
would be great to lop off every turd in all of them not actually *used* by trb, and this kind of work was precisely why I bothered to make pentacle. |
| 01:38 |
signpost |
and why taking pains to avoid arbitrary dependencies; the thing oughta pull *inward* from here. |
| 01:43 |
signpost |
while on the subj, wouldn't mind feedback on whether to have one single v-tree for all possible system components, or each piece of software having independent lineage. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:44 |
signpost |
I've opted for latter to avoid regrind hell when folks disagree about what they want on their systems, but curious if others disagree. |
| 01:45 |
signpost |
in my mind, each system is defined by the patches/seals/wot they have locally, which comprises what *can* be built, and out of that systems are composed with what's chosen to build. |
| 01:46 |
signpost |
perhaps later we find there's coordination overhead in not having one canonical src tree, as is done in say bsd ports. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:46 |
signpost |
not insurmountable to merge later. |
| |
~ 56 minutes ~ |
| 02:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077317 << a. still sounds moar like distributed storage than cpu-by-the-pound, tho |
| 02:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 20:24:14 signpost: not botnet, but rather infrastructure for wot members. for example, I would happily trade cycles to remove a single point of failure for asciilifeform's www |
| 02:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-28 19:37:11 asciilifeform: signpost: somewhat apropos, thought of your lubytron in context of possible pheature: pestron takes a local dir and 'hosts'. peers (and optionally broader pestnet members, e.g. l2/l3) can visit e.g. http://localhost:8000/signpost and see his 'www'. |
| 02:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077319 << ditto |
| 02:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 20:25:22 signpost: has one such application in his head, that for example his l1 may in time be able to purchase a burner laptop while traveling, and call down a usable system into it quickly from wot-net. |
| 02:45 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077320 << this'd be a++. tho as asciilifeform understands, ~100% of the problem is 'bake a linux which actually boots on xyz random irons' rather than distributed-anyffin per se |
| 02:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 20:27:27 signpost: to hazard a sketch, I'd create a travel key, and distribute a disk image among friendlies in l1. after arrival, I'd ping those friendlies for a swarm download of the disk image with travel key, and appear on pestnet. |
| 02:46 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077323 << asciilifeform usedto work in that racket and would bet heavily against it ever at any pt amounting to anyffin other than 'moar studies needed'(tm)(r) 'climate science' |
| 02:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 20:32:00 signpost: now, if anybody has a *real* breakthrough in homomorphic encryption at >glacial processing speed, changes quite a bit. |
| 02:46 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-09-15 asciilifeform: kanzure: i spilled the beans from a similar darpa conference that i attended, in the heart of the beast itself, few yrs back ( it's in the l0gz, spoiler : multilinear map homomorphic crypto is bunkum ) and still waiting for gasenwagen |
| 02:47 |
asciilifeform |
( most hilariously, even the impossibility proof of the general case did not put a damper in the flow of moolah. ) |
| 02:47 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2015-07-07 asciilifeform: other pertinent maths include the proof of why 'homomorphic obfuscator' is impossible in the general case |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 03:20 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077329 << imho things which are actually separable, oughta be separate. (may be easier said than done, tho) |
| 03:20 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 20:43:55 signpost: while on the subj, wouldn't mind feedback on whether to have one single v-tree for all possible system components, or each piece of software having independent lineage. |
| 03:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077332 << unless we throw out the manifests thing (doing which has own potential minefields) the coordination overhead of '1 tree' would be quite lethal (e.g. 'hey you gotta regrind yer postgres patch, cuz i changed the default sound card config 5min ago') |
| 03:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 20:46:26 signpost: perhaps later we find there's coordination overhead in not having one canonical src tree, as is done in say bsd ports. |
| |
~ 3 hours 20 minutes ~ |
| 06:43 |
cgra |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077292 << for difficulty=1, the "target" (ie. the maximum allowed hash value) = 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000; so: target / genesis_hash ~= 2536 (dunno why i first rounded up, to 2600) |
| 06:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-30 15:18:45 asciilifeform: or hm, iirc needed 32 leading 0 bits at diff1. which'd make the genesis, with 43 leading 0's, 2^11 i.e. '2048x harder than had to' |
| |
~ 7 hours 27 minutes ~ |
| 14:10 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: this seems like a peculiar way to calculate the 'overwork', considering that the diff is quantized by the upper bits and the bottom segment being 'less' dun help |
| |
↖ |
| 14:12 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
Polling 14 nodes... |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=721191 (Operator: whaack) |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.158s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.317s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.319s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.594s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:12 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.556s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 |
| 14:13 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! |
| 14:14 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
| |
~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~ |
| 15:18 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: this comparison is the pov i'm looking at this from. you just try a random number and it's either <= the threshold, or above it. if above, keep trying. |
| |
↖ |
| 15:18 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: aha |
| 15:19 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: re bottom segment not helping, do you mean 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 would've been a valid hash under minimum difficulty (note the LSB)? |
| 15:20 |
asciilifeform |
well no |
| 15:21 |
asciilifeform |
gotta be < the diff |
| 15:22 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. 0x1fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff would've been, tho |
| 15:28 |
* |
asciilifeform notices that per the coad, it's technically <= rather than <. but would be surprised if anyone ever 'won' this 'lotto' |
| |
↖ |
| 15:29 |
* |
cgra 's clutch is slipping. difficulty grasping asciilifeform's thinking |
| 15:30 |
asciilifeform |
minor nitpick. |
| 15:32 |
cgra |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077375 << does this refer to smth said here? |
| 15:32 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 10:28:26 asciilifeform: notices that per the coad, it's technically <= rather than <. but would be surprised if anyone ever 'won' this 'lotto' |
| 15:32 |
asciilifeform |
if (hash > bnTarget.getuint256()) |
| 15:32 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. can be == and still meet diff |
| 15:33 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: i think i said exactly so, here at least |
| 15:33 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 10:18:48 cgra: asciilifeform: this comparison is the pov i'm looking at this from. you just try a random number and it's either <= the threshold, or above it. if above, keep trying. |
| 15:33 |
asciilifeform |
ah yes |
| 15:33 |
* |
asciilifeform still waking up, lol |
| 15:34 |
cgra |
hehe, and i was heading to bed when saw your first comments re this overwork math |
| 15:35 |
* |
asciilifeform recalls looking at this yrs ago and wondering whether the '==' case in fact would be easier for a hypothetical sat-solving, i.e. non-bruteforce miner |
| 15:35 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-07-17 asciilifeform: (frame the hash operation as a logical 'sat' system, work backwards to exclude regions of possible input state space based on known output bits) |
| 15:37 |
cgra |
though any idea how to connect? i still don't see any peculiarity in my kindergarten approach |
| 15:52 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: re "quantized by upper bits", do you mean mining works more efficiently if in case of minimum difficulty, you aim at or under 000000007fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff instead? ie. guaranteed less top bits than the threshold |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 16:09 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: iirc the iron miners only look at the top n bits, aha |
| 16:11 |
cgra |
ah so while settle for "up to twice as difficult", gain elsewhere more than that |
| 16:11 |
asciilifeform |
correct, no subtraction |
| 16:14 |
* |
cgra were pointed out yet another snot blob hanging in the same, neverending strain :D |
| 16:22 |
asciilifeform |
whole thing is epic ball o'snot, doubt it could've been any 'dirtier' if it'd been e.g. a microshit product. |
| |
~ 3 hours 29 minutes ~ |
| 19:51 |
signpost |
in other balls of snot news: |
| 19:51 |
signpost |
raised STORAGE_ERROR : stack overflow or erroneous memory access |
| |
↖ |
| 19:51 |
signpost |
lolol |
| 19:52 |
* |
signpost may have to do some optimization yet. |
| 19:52 |
signpost |
gcc, binutils, and linux kernel are pretty fat. |
| 19:54 |
signpost |
ah, looks like it might've gagged on having multiple in the same patches dir. separating out just gcc patches worx. |
| 19:55 |
signpost |
e.g. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=n8j5 |
| 19:55 |
signpost |
more convenient to have them separated anyway, will have something like software/gcc/patches software/gcc/seals, I think. |
| |
~ 2 hours 12 minutes ~ |
| 22:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077397 << loox like a gnat oom (likely in 'vdiff' ?) |
| 22:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-31 14:52:02 signpost: raised STORAGE_ERROR : stack overflow or erroneous memory access |
| 22:09 |
asciilifeform |
(gnat runtime that is) |
| 22:10 |
asciilifeform |
dollars to doughnuts you'll find a corresponding oom corpse in dmesg |
| 22:13 |
signpost |
yeah, it barfed with several gig of src in ./patches in multiple trees |
| 22:13 |
signpost |
will investigate, but not blocked by it since I don't need to be able to do that. |
| 22:14 |
signpost |
paste lost a line, that was a v flow call |