| 00:00 |
thimbronion |
oops, that was for signpost's line |
| 00:01 |
signpost |
not like the guy doesn't take up real estate in my own skull, or I wouldn't be as pissed about the inglorious end |
| |
↖ |
| 00:02 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063517 << plenty of owned people make dump-trucks of printed money in the US. I just walked away from approx 1mil/yr in comp all considered. |
| |
↖ |
| 00:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 00:05:42 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-06#1063512 << the quoted fella wasn't in any likelihood a 'ruler'; but hegemon -- defo. and dunno whether makes sense to refer to stopping by the palace to pick up yer 3mil$ now an' then as 'punching in', but i suppose technically could |
| 00:03 |
vex |
that's it. 300 > 3mn is only 1 zero |
| 00:03 |
signpost |
yeah, I have less respect for omg mil usd as time goes on, thanks to janet, jerome, and co, lol |
| 00:04 |
signpost |
(not that asciilifeform does) |
| 00:12 |
signpost |
anyway, much higher-ranking scum at GS than comcast, but both lives read from a flowchart they didn't write. |
| 00:14 |
vex |
also bzx claim to have opened walletinpector.docx 55mn gone |
| 00:24 |
thimbronion |
PeterL: I'm just gonna use the key you shared. |
| 00:38 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ebI-j15Dyg -mp would go- @whaack |
| 00:48 |
billymg |
thimbronion: (or asciilifeform) i'm trying to get blatta running on my dulap rc, would either of you happen to have the distfiles for sqlite3 so i can install via portage? |
| |
↖ |
| 00:56 |
* |
billymg bbl |
| 00:58 |
vex |
;rate jurov 5 sleep as long as you want babe, you're well loved mountain man |
| 01:00 |
vex |
for the record. noone elks gets a 5 |
| 01:00 |
vex |
alf, bb, you're 4 |
| 01:03 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063718 << read this and barfed, it's a (surprise?) shitcoin with 'blockchain', 'mixers', over9000 movingparts |
| |
↖ |
| 01:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:21:29 cdd: https://nymtech.net/whitepaper/ |
| 01:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063737 << lol they were at nearby table |
| 01:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:55:35 vex: those golden sack boys alf had lunch with are prolly only rocking two |
| 01:04 |
vex |
did you mention bitcoin loudly? |
| 01:04 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
| 01:04 |
vex |
seems fitting |
| 01:04 |
asciilifeform |
vex: can talk xor eavesdrop, lol |
| 01:05 |
vex |
We'rent you almost starving? what is this resturant? |
| 01:05 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063755 << gotta be specific, which tarball is missing |
| |
↖ |
| 01:05 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 19:48:34 billymg: thimbronion: (or asciilifeform) i'm trying to get blatta running on my dulap rc, would either of you happen to have the distfiles for sqlite3 so i can install via portage? |
| 01:08 |
* |
asciilifeform spent most of day in engine guts, still woozy from the fumes |
| 01:08 |
vex |
bought a boat? |
| 01:08 |
asciilifeform |
lolno |
| 01:09 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063706 << it's a general-purpose packet routing protocol, simply chat is by far simplest rider to implement |
| 01:09 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:14:48 cdd: Ah, how do I word it. Yes it's a different protocol entirely, but it serves the same function. It's just a protocol, it's like gemini to html. But gemini is shit. |
| 01:09 |
* |
asciilifeform is satisfied that there is not already a published item that 'does same thing', errybody seems obsessed with pseudo'anonymous' liquishit |
| 01:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063732 << my current favourite is eizo's ev3285 |
| 01:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:48:55 vex: whats a good monitor for vert reading? I want one now |
| 01:10 |
vex |
fuck how much is that gonna cost? |
| 01:11 |
asciilifeform |
vex: <2k us |
| 01:11 |
vex |
thought so. 2x on signpost's recoommendation |
| 01:12 |
asciilifeform |
vex: if you intend to mount on ergotron arm, gotta get the thickest one, is too heavy for the standard item |
| 01:12 |
vex |
i'm niether penilless, nor minted |
| 01:13 |
asciilifeform |
vex: it's a tool of trade, if you stare at display 14+h/d, will appreciate it, otherwise overkill |
| 01:13 |
vex |
it'll come as no surprise that I'm not in the trade |
| 01:15 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063739 << imho asciilifeform's summary aint entirely off, but obv. subjective. |
| 01:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:58:18 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063724 << (but first) this is you doing it with a sock-puppet, not him. |
| 01:15 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063746 << this makes sense, no one pays a sarariman 'enuff to stop' |
| 01:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 19:02:51 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063517 << plenty of owned people make dump-trucks of printed money in the US. I just walked away from approx 1mil/yr in comp all considered. |
| 01:15 |
signpost |
$ticker btc usd |
| 01:15 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $65309 |
| 01:15 |
signpost |
:D |
| 01:16 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063701 << 1 peer in a pair does need an ext. routable ipv4, in all fairness. but dun have to be in a dc. |
| 01:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:10:41 signpost: what infrastructure, pest doesn't need datacenters. |
| 01:16 |
signpost |
re: enough to stop, their lifestyles inflate with paycheck |
| 01:16 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: yeah, I got to mentioning radio |
| 01:16 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: this is common and quite lethal aha |
| 01:17 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: was conscious element of the design, aha, to support routing fabric other than ip. |
| 01:18 |
signpost |
defo, picked up on that |
| 01:18 |
asciilifeform |
nuffin in pest presumes that a packet is routed point to point, worx entirely fine with broadcast. |
| 01:18 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
| 01:18 |
asciilifeform |
'if you can decrypt it, it's for you' |
| 01:18 |
asciilifeform |
'found keys, keep car' |
| |
↖ |
| 01:19 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063651 << observe that asciilifeform et al cultivate the ~precise opposite~ of anonymity. once you grasp why, will have flash of enlightenment. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:19 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 16:37:53 cdd: I wouldn't go through all the effort to protect my anonymity connecting on here to throw it all away. |
| 01:20 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063644 << currently is a miniature item set up as wartime expedient by asciilifeform (there are fallback boxen by other folx) |
| 01:20 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 16:10:53 cdd: Is dulpanet just this IRC channel or does it extend elsewhere? |
| 01:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063705 << irc in fact does not permit a net w/out hardwired central points of failure, aha. i rec to noobs to read the aug.2021 threads where we attempted to bake one. |
| 01:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:13:19 signpost: although it was born breaking teeth on the fact that IRC servers cannot be deployed redundantly (i.e. with cycles in the peerings) |
| 01:24 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063729 << i got 1 of those amd cad card things that doesn't 3d ~at all. but worx with 100% blobless driver, and pushes 3 x '4k', which was all i needed. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
| 01:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:45:30 signpost: thing was like 200bux, cheap, and obtainable because it can't 3D for shit. |
| 01:25 |
signpost |
which one was that? |
| 01:26 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: wx2100 |
| 01:26 |
asciilifeform |
~100$ |
| 01:27 |
signpost |
hm cheap, I might compare this to the visiontek 7750 |
| 01:28 |
* |
asciilifeform not tried the latter, but loox like it oughta run off same driver |
| 01:28 |
signpost |
yeah, using the kernel amdgpu one |
| 01:28 |
asciilifeform |
for 6 hoses you'd need two wx's tho |
| 01:29 |
signpost |
these actually look pretty similar aside number of outputs, so I'm probably good. |
| 01:29 |
asciilifeform |
ifitworx, dunfixit |
| 01:31 |
vex |
^ still running a stolen monitor with hv hookups making the shit light up |
| 01:33 |
vex |
custom shroud |
| 01:33 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063690 << this is key. |
| 01:33 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 17:58:59 signpost: also worth considering that at the bottom of every software design is a particular political view |
| 01:34 |
asciilifeform |
it aint retrofittable, either, item that is baked for 1, generally worthless if take another |
| 01:36 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063699 << grade-a sniveling cloudcuck bullshit. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:36 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 18:10:06 cdd: http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Eternal_Mainframe.html |
| 01:36 |
vex |
take my pc. get zapped |
| 01:37 |
asciilifeform |
if gotta turn yer hut into a dc, then so be it. e.g. asciilifeform's new pad has 20kw genset on concrete pedestal. and prolly will install moar. |
| |
↖ |
| 01:38 |
signpost |
nice |
| 01:38 |
asciilifeform |
'cost of doing biz' |
| 01:39 |
vex |
sweet as |
| 01:39 |
asciilifeform |
vex: well, no, 'sweet' would be not being in position where 'no mains current, no pay' |
| 01:40 |
asciilifeform |
this is rather like 'oh you bought own bulldozer? sweet' |
| 01:40 |
vex |
i'm thinking about getting a shipload of lister clones from .in |
| 01:40 |
asciilifeform |
'best machine is no machine'(tm)(r)(altschuller) |
| 01:41 |
vex |
fits inhead |
| 01:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063679 << prolly cleanest way to do it is by introducing a subtype or 2 of priv.msg (1 for wot inquiry, 1 for response) but prolly a bridge too far atm |
| 01:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 17:52:33 signpost: that said my next work on the wot will be to make it available as a service on pest. |
| 01:45 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063685 << in exactly same sense venus probe is 'like train, but with plasma jets' lol |
| 01:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 17:56:04 cdd: Hm, reminds me of XMPP; but decentralized. |
| 01:46 |
asciilifeform |
the key parts in any such mechanism is the ones which ~aint there~. |
| 01:47 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063745 << there's a 2015-vintage mp installed in asciilifeform's head, worx a++ |
| 01:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 19:01:34 signpost: not like the guy doesn't take up real estate in my own skull, or I wouldn't be as pissed about the inglorious end |
| 01:47 |
signpost |
"never upgrade!" |
| 01:47 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
| 01:47 |
vex |
^ |
| 01:48 |
asciilifeform |
moar subtly perhaps 'always know when to stop upgrading' |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 02:08 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v62QkD_q1bs send the 3 |
| 02:09 |
vex |
hanbot once made 8 bc a week |
| 02:10 |
vex |
anyone fucks with her. i'll tune you to new song |
| 02:17 |
vex |
best belive the western australia kidnapper got put in a cell with a wicked man |
| 02:18 |
vex |
https://youtu.be/GFBS4EfQelM |
| 02:23 |
asciilifeform |
vex: and e.g. karpeles was making over9000/d! |
| 02:23 |
vex |
Idk about japanese jails |
| 02:24 |
asciilifeform |
vex: they let him out, he's still 'needed' |
| 02:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-29 12:18:05 puman: fucking Karpeles again? "One reason for staffers' virulent disapproval is Shells CTO Mark Karpelès" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ |
| 02:26 |
vex |
i can send a meme |
| 02:30 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063769 << so far have tried 3.22 and 3.21, pretty much just working off of the ebuilds that came with dulap in /usr/portage/dev-db/sqlite |
| |
↖ |
| 02:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 20:05:36 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063755 << gotta be specific, which tarball is missing |
| 02:33 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i also poked around in the upstream repo for something, all of the currently listed ebuilds are for EAPI=7, 3.24 was the last ebuild to be on EAPI=6 but the tarball for that also 404'd |
| 02:36 |
vex |
minhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpesqtm33N4 |
| 02:38 |
vex |
//whymin? |
| 02:46 |
vex |
thttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g12f7uDIGZc |
| 02:50 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in2opTzBfwk meanwhile, in spookks |
| |
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~ |
| 04:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063666 << updated with link to 0xFD working draft and to thimbronion's thing . |
| 04:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 17:46:43 signpost: imho the most interesting work being done currently is http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3926 |
| 04:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063859 << i'ma take a closer look tomorrow |
| 04:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 21:30:14 billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063769 << so far have tried 3.22 and 3.21, pretty much just working off of the ebuilds that came with dulap in /usr/portage/dev-db/sqlite |
| 04:10 |
asciilifeform |
it's entirely possib. that it's missing, iirc i haven't used sqlite since phuctor-1 |
| 04:11 |
* |
asciilifeform will bbl |
| |
~ 2 hours 21 minutes ~ |
| 06:32 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063760 << Ah shit, that's the whitepaper for the coin (I haven't read that, sorry for wasting your time), not the anonymity network. https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.00536 |
| |
↖ |
| 06:32 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 20:03:27 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063718 << read this and barfed, it's a (surprise?) shitcoin with 'blockchain', 'mixers', over9000 movingparts |
| 06:45 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063804 << I will read get used to reading logs, I don't quite understand the enlightenment you promise. I'm just an observer, and will most likely never have something to contribute. |
| |
↖ |
| 06:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 20:19:23 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063651 << observe that asciilifeform et al cultivate the ~precise opposite~ of anonymity. once you grasp why, will have flash of enlightenment. |
| 06:47 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063826 << If I understand correctly it's anti-cloudcuckery but rather defeatist in the face of it. It's also rather outdated (where was blockchain and DHTs when this was written?), so I think it served merit for it's time. |
| |
↖ |
| 06:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 20:36:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063699 << grade-a sniveling cloudcuck bullshit. |
| |
~ 4 hours 51 minutes ~ |
| 11:39 |
cdd |
Anyone online? |
| |
~ 50 minutes ~ |
| 12:29 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I built sqlite-3.20.1-r1.ebuild on a dulap: http://share.alethepedia.com/portage/dev-db/sqlite/ |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 13:06 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=cIeK |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 39 minutes ~ |
| 13:46 |
billymg |
thimbronion: i tried that one last night and it also 404'd on the source files (just tried again and same result) |
| 13:48 |
billymg |
thimbronion: since it was successful for you, any chance you now have the files for it sitting in your /usr/portage/distfiles/ ? |
| 13:58 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063874 << BingoBoingo once did a writeup on the futility and strategic failings of "being anonymous" on the internet http://bingology.net/2018/censorship-resistance-in-2018-an-introduction/?b=At%20the%20same&e=plight#select |
| |
↖ |
| 13:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 01:45:10 cdd: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063804 << I will read get used to reading logs, I don't quite understand the enlightenment you promise. I'm just an observer, and will most likely never have something to contribute. |
| 13:58 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I see sqlite-autoconf-3200100.tar.gz in here: http://share.alethepedia.com/portage/distfiles/ |
| 14:00 |
billymg |
thimbronion: oh hey, yes, thank you. i didn't realize you had your whole /usr/portage directory mirrored |
| 14:00 |
thimbronion |
billymg: lol I didn't either |
| 14:12 |
billymg |
thimbronion: worked, ty |
| |
↖ |
| 14:14 |
thimbronion |
billymg: sweet |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 14:31 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063872 << this is an almost canonical-grade example of academilul, can't resist to comment : |
| 14:31 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 01:32:51 cdd: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063760 << Ah shit, that's the whitepaper for the coin (I haven't read that, sorry for wasting your time), not the anonymity network. https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.00536 |
| 14:31 |
asciilifeform |
'the adversary has the ability to participate in the Loopix system as a compromised user, who may deviate from the protocol. We assume that the adversary can control a limited number of such users—excluding Sybil attacks [21] from the Loopix threat model—since we assume that honest providers are able to ensure that at least a large fraction of their users base are genuine users faithfully following all Loopix proto |
| 14:31 |
asciilifeform |
cols.' |
| 14:32 |
asciilifeform |
that ^ there's the 'punchline', inevitably found in these usg.academia 'products' (tho not always as explicitly printed as in the linked lul) |
| 14:33 |
asciilifeform |
'let's take the real-life attack which 100% knocks down our house of cards and pretend it dun exist' |
| 14:33 |
asciilifeform |
( not even to mention the baked-in notion of 'users' vs 'providers' a la the tor idjicy ) |
| 14:36 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. the 'responsibility collapse triangle' of collectivist failure where there's 'users' who 'just want', and a set of 'providers' who are to supply the thing they 'just want', and somehow they are to live happily-ever-after together w/out one sticking knife in the back of the other |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
| 14:36 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-03-01 asciilifeform: what are ~all~ of the places where A has the ecstasy, but B does the laundry, where A!=B |
| 14:39 |
asciilifeform |
see also. |
| |
↖ |
| 14:39 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-15 22:18:56 asciilifeform: lru: it may help to clear up your thinking re subj if you realize that there is no such thing as 'people' in the network. there are participants, in abstract mathematical sense; but it doesn't cost very much to rent whatever # of machines, w/ unique ips , and pretend 'i'm 1e7 people' . |
| 14:41 |
asciilifeform |
the only reason e.g. bitcoin net worx, despite the abundance of inexpensive sybil nodes, is the usg.maligned proof-of-work. |
| 14:44 |
asciilifeform |
under any other structure, you have e.g. tor. |
| 14:45 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063888 << a++, i'ma update mine, thx thimbronion |
| 14:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 09:12:02 billymg: thimbronion: worked, ty |
| 14:52 |
asciilifeform |
cdd: once you understand that the academitards aint actually trying to set up groundwork for working software -- will immediately have over9000x ability to 'read b/w the lines' and these will stand out like cockroaches on white drywall |
| 14:52 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-06-10 asciilifeform: 'My Navrozov moment, of course, was when I approached one of the two - Sacco, I think - and attempted to have an intellectual discussion of this realization. The story is basically the same as Navrozov's, so it would be boring to repeat, but basically I came away with the feeling that I'd told someone his Sicilian grandmother liked to get drunk and fuck her own goats.' |
| 14:56 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063876 << there was plenty of working p2p net (incl. folx simply hosting www on self-owned irons) in '13, none of it required dht or bitcoinism |
| 14:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 01:47:36 cdd: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063826 << If I understand correctly it's anti-cloudcuckery but rather defeatist in the face of it. It's also rather outdated (where was blockchain and DHTs when this was written?), so I think it served merit for it's time. |
| 14:58 |
asciilifeform |
and defeatism of the 'inevitable history' variety is the archaetypical 5thcolumnism in fact. |
| 14:58 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2015-09-19 asciilifeform: 'I saw a huge steam roller, / It blotted out the sun. / The people all lay down, lay down; / They did not try to run. / ... ...' - k. vonnegut |
| 14:59 |
asciilifeform |
'"Lie down, lie down!" the people cried. "The great machine is history!" .. Perhaps we should have stayed and died, But somehow we don't think so. We went to see where history'd been, And my, the dead did stink so.' |
| 15:01 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
| 15:01 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $65335.92 |
| 15:01 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708799 |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708799 |
| 15:01 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.090s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.146s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708799 (Operator: whaack) |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.225s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.314s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.585s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708799 |
| 15:02 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.222s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=492601 (Operator: jurov) |
| 15:03 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
| 15:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063880 << ty thimbronion ! |
| 15:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 08:06:51 thimbronion: asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=cIeK |
| 15:04 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: yw! |
| 15:16 |
PeterL |
thimbronion: I am trying to connect to you on the test net, but I don't see anything yet? |
| 15:18 |
thimbronion |
PeterL: we see you |
| |
~ 24 minutes ~ |
| 15:42 |
billymg |
i've got blatta running and can connect to it from my IRC client, can any of those connected share their peer info? |
| 15:45 |
billymg |
^ thimbronion, PeterL, shinohai |
| 15:46 |
shinohai |
billymg: gpgram me a key and I'll send ya my info |
| 15:48 |
thimbronion |
billymg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Vv8B |
| 15:51 |
billymg |
shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=L_6W |
| 15:53 |
billymg |
thimbronion: ack |
| 15:53 |
shinohai |
billymg: my bad need you connection info for the /at command as well |
| 15:53 |
billymg |
shinohai: ah right, one sec |
| 15:56 |
shinohai |
billymg: http://btc.info.gf/paste/07c7e3@raw |
| 15:56 |
billymg |
thimbronion: i did the peer, at, key commands for your station |
| 15:56 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I will need your handle, ip:port |
| 15:58 |
thimbronion |
technically might just need your handle and key, but in that case you'd have to message me first to update my at, but haven't tried that |
| 15:59 |
billymg |
shinohai: here's the rest of the info http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=CQyD |
| 16:00 |
shinohai |
tyvm |
| 16:01 |
billymg |
thimbronion: my handle is billymg, and the key would be the one you sent me, correct? |
| 16:01 |
thimbronion |
billymg: yeah. I have added your handle and key. |
| 16:02 |
billymg |
ok, let me try to send you a message and see if the at updates |
| 16:04 |
shinohai |
billymg: Added |
| 16:09 |
billymg |
shinohai: just sent you a privmsg, did it come through? |
| 16:09 |
shinohai |
billymg: negative, I sent you one as well |
| 16:10 |
billymg |
shinohai: hrm |
| 16:11 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: how didja get e.g. weechat to eat KEY cmd ? mine bards |
| 16:11 |
asciilifeform |
*barfs |
| 16:11 |
shinohai |
asciilifeform: prefix with `/quote` |
| 16:12 |
thimbronion |
/quote key handle xxx |
| 16:12 |
asciilifeform |
aa ty |
| 16:15 |
* |
asciilifeform then discovers that the box he set up for this experiment has only python 2.6, and of course thing chokes on it |
| 16:15 |
asciilifeform |
but, lol, only when joining #pest |
| 16:16 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: lulz. I've been using pyenv. |
| 16:17 |
shinohai |
venv worx a++ for me too ... during test actually connected from android phone in termux. |
| 16:17 |
asciilifeform |
ok dunwork in 2.7 either |
| 16:17 |
asciilifeform |
NameError: name 'os' is not defined |
| 16:18 |
asciilifeform |
(again on joining #pest) |
| 16:18 |
thimbronion |
really does seem like a python version thing hrmmmmm |
| 16:18 |
shinohai |
I'm using pythong 2.7.18 fwiw |
| 16:18 |
shinohai |
*python |
| 16:19 |
asciilifeform |
same! |
| 16:20 |
asciilifeform |
wtf is 'pyenv' anyway ? it aint in my gentoo portage |
| 16:20 |
thimbronion |
it's a shim that allows you to switch between python versions |
| 16:21 |
asciilifeform |
guessed as much. but where does one get it ? |
| 16:22 |
thimbronion |
shithub: https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv |
| 16:22 |
PeterL |
os needs to get imported, should be one of the default modules available in any python version |
| 16:22 |
shinohai |
My version of blatta at least `import os` is very first line! |
| 16:23 |
asciilifeform |
for that matter my v.py imports it |
| 16:23 |
asciilifeform |
and worx a++, is how i pressed |
| 16:23 |
asciilifeform |
so wtf |
| 16:23 |
thimbronion |
oh oh yeah. could be a bug in blatta - possible triggered by some option asciilifeorm is using that I don't ever use... |
| 16:23 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: i ran with './blatta --debug --ports 5000 --udp-port 13337 --statedir ~/state --verbose' |
| 16:24 |
asciilifeform |
it runs a++ until one tries to join #pest |
| 16:24 |
thimbronion |
ok never used --statedir before |
| 16:24 |
thimbronion |
I think there was a similar issue with --logdir |
| 16:24 |
asciilifeform |
hm then worx |
| 16:25 |
asciilifeform |
i have thimbronion peered but see only self in #pest |
| 16:25 |
asciilifeform |
ah worx! |
| 16:28 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: i take it the current ver. of blatta doesn't mark hearsay? |
| 16:28 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: correct. that's next up. |
| 16:28 |
* |
asciilifeform saw billymg, but not peered him yet, nick wasn't marked 'billymg(awt)' even tho only had the latter |
| 16:28 |
asciilifeform |
ah ok |
| 16:32 |
asciilifeform |
'WOT' doesn't seem to show times of last contact |
| 16:32 |
asciilifeform |
(i'ma guess this not yet baked?) |
| 16:32 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. i peered shinohai but nfi whether successful contact) |
| 16:33 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: at has it |
| 16:33 |
shinohai |
I don't have asciilifeform peered yet, did not have info for at |
| 16:34 |
asciilifeform |
a! |
| 16:34 |
asciilifeform |
btw in that case not worx per spec, AT showed a contact with shinohai |
| 16:35 |
asciilifeform |
ought to show time of last ~received~ valid packet from peer, per sect. 2.5.1 |
| 16:35 |
asciilifeform |
( unless shinohai peered asciilifeform while i was speaking this ) |
| 16:35 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: noted. really just shows the last time the address was updated |
| 16:35 |
asciilifeform |
a |
| 16:48 |
* |
asciilifeform will leave it running for nao but thing defo needs some debugging. e.g. dedup randomly fails. |
| 16:48 |
* |
asciilifeform unfortunately cannot presently devote much time w/ own hands |
| 16:58 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: dedup problem resolved |
| 16:59 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: hm? |
| 16:59 |
thimbronion |
the multiple messages were due to shinohai having two entries for you in the wot. Now there's only one and we aren't seeing anymore duplicated messages. |
| |
↖ |
| 17:00 |
thimbronion |
I need to update the wot db to enforce unique handles, though. |
| 17:01 |
shinohai |
I like fuzzing, what can I say? |
| 17:02 |
thimbronion |
For those interested: pest testnet logs here: http://logs.bitdash.io/ |
| |
↖ |
| 17:04 |
asciilifeform |
hm thimbronion how come asciilifeform didn't see any of these in #pest ? |
| 17:04 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: lemme know when you have a chance to look into my hosting request so i can get my logger running on some faster hardware |
| 17:05 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: i got the box, is under test nao |
| |
↖ |
| 17:05 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: nice! |
| 17:05 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: Unsure. Are you not seeing anymore messages? |
| 17:05 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
| 17:05 |
asciilifeform |
last msg is shinohai's 'once with date affixed to end' |
| 17:10 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: just sent you a dm. Anything in your logs? |
| 17:10 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
| 17:11 |
thimbronion |
Mind if I publish the ip:port I have for you here? |
| 17:11 |
asciilifeform |
wainot |
| 17:11 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform 71.191.220.241:64130 |
| 17:12 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: ah this is interesting -- that's an ephemeral port |
| 17:12 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: i suspect that the mechanism there needs refinement |
| 17:12 |
asciilifeform |
( if a permanent port is known for a peer, that's the 1 that oughta be used for contact ) |
| 17:13 |
thimbronion |
ohhh ok. I have dealt with issues there before. |
| 17:13 |
asciilifeform |
or possib. needs a packet router finesse so that they leave out the specificed hole |
| 17:13 |
asciilifeform |
ephemeral routes expire btw |
| 17:13 |
asciilifeform |
could be why asciilifeform's station is silent |
| 17:17 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: it is unclear to me right now why you're blatta is not sending from 13337 |
| 17:17 |
thimbronion |
*your |
| 17:18 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: it's behind a nat (with 13337 inbound routed correctly to inside) |
| |
↖ |
| 17:22 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: I thikn that's it. Currently blatta updates the at to the last address and port a message from a peer was received from. |
| 17:22 |
asciilifeform |
this is per spec tho. i suspect that the question needs handling on router end |
| 17:23 |
asciilifeform |
station oughta send from same port as it expects to receive in |
| 17:23 |
thimbronion |
yes |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
| 17:50 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: current address/port I have for you: 71.191.220.241:8561 |
| 17:50 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: again ephemeral port, aha |
| 17:50 |
asciilifeform |
i suspect this explains the message loss |
| 17:50 |
thimbronion |
yep. |
| 17:50 |
asciilifeform |
(errybody else must be testing on 'naked' boxes w/out filters ?) |
| 17:50 |
thimbronion |
I am |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai, billymg ? |
| 17:52 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: no filters that i know of, no |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
thing oughta work from behind a nat. will need to think (and suggestions invited) how to do this w/out mutilating spec |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
a nat with an inbound rule oughta be sufficient (for both sides of a peering in fact) |
| 17:54 |
shinohai |
No filters here either, simply opened the port for pest station. |
| 17:55 |
thimbronion |
I briefly looked into "hole punching" but was rapidly in over my head |
| 17:55 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: do shinohai's packets on your end show up from constant port ? |
| 17:56 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: 'hole punching' actually is what we're doing presently,turns out, w/ asciilifeform's station; but it dunwork reliably, because ephemeral |
| |
↖ |
| 17:56 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: I have two ips and one port from shinohai |
| 17:57 |
asciilifeform |
i suspect that asciilifeform's station needs an outbound rule in pfsense |
| 17:57 |
shinohai |
2 ip's O.o |
| 17:58 |
asciilifeform |
( either that; or packets oughta have a field for requested inbound port, possibly ) |
| 17:58 |
thimbronion |
First one I have from shinohai is: 165.227.204.241 |
| 17:59 |
asciilifeform |
thinking about it, no need for field, simply need to avoid updating port in AT, only update ip when valid packet is received from new one |
| |
↖ |
| 18:00 |
shinohai |
thimbronion: first one is bot ip |
| 18:00 |
asciilifeform |
that way will work with strictly inbound rule |
| 18:00 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: easy change |
| 18:01 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion, signpost , shinohai , billymg , et al -- can anyone think of a reason not to do this ? |
| 18:01 |
asciilifeform |
imho worth discussing, no reason to hurry |
| 18:02 |
shinohai |
I can think of no reason here offhand. |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
it would mean that port gotta be set manually (via 'AT') before a peering can work |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
but aside from that, afaik harmless |
| 18:02 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: only objection I have is that it was pretty nice to be able to just pass out a key and address and not have to wait for a gpgram with the the other guy's address. |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
right |
| 18:03 |
asciilifeform |
possibly would even make sense to have a 'return addr' msg type |
| 18:04 |
asciilifeform |
i can think of circumstances where outgoing and incoming ip, and not only port, may differ for a station |
| 18:05 |
* |
asciilifeform will switch off his testbed for nao |
| 18:07 |
asciilifeform |
if it's an easy fix via pfsense outbound rule, possib. oughta keep thing as it is |
| 18:07 |
* |
asciilifeform unfortunately not has time atm to find the magick knob |
| 18:11 |
asciilifeform |
!q uptime |
| 18:11 |
dulapbot |
asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 145d 14h 8m |
| 18:11 |
* |
asciilifeform ftr does think it is very neat that there is already a ~90% prototype ! ty thimbronion ! |
| 18:12 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: ty been enjoying this project quite a bit. |
| 18:12 |
asciilifeform |
a++ |
| 18:13 |
asciilifeform |
almost lulzy how long we sat in fleanode bog |
| 18:13 |
thimbronion |
really is. |
| 18:15 |
* |
asciilifeform recalls how mp rejected multiple offers to set up ordinary irc net, because 'must' peer with fleanode/other classic net despite none of the latter wanting anyffin to do with such thing, 'how will the camwhores log in' etc |
| 18:16 |
asciilifeform |
anybody miss fleanode? cuz asciilifeform doesn't one bit, lol |
| 18:17 |
thimbronion |
I miss 2004 fleanode |
| 18:17 |
asciilifeform |
well i miss 1998 usenet, heh |
| 18:17 |
PeterL |
I was only on Freenode to talk to the people here |
| 18:18 |
thimbronion |
otherwise no fleanode is dead and has been replaced by slack |
| 18:18 |
thimbronion |
"replaced" |
| 18:18 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: ditto |
| 18:18 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: well over9000 proprietary aols |
| 18:18 |
asciilifeform |
'replaced' |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
| 18:33 |
asciilifeform |
wb punkman |
| 18:36 |
punkman |
nice to see pestnet going |
| 18:36 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: iirc you were baking own client ? |
| 18:37 |
punkman |
was replacing sqlite with a simple kv store, then was too busy, so currently not working |
| 18:37 |
asciilifeform |
a |
| 18:37 |
punkman |
might get it back to working this week |
| 18:37 |
asciilifeform |
as with e.g. vtrons -- the moar the merrier |
| 18:38 |
asciilifeform |
imho is simple enuff protocol that just about erryone could make own client |
| 18:38 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064060 << this was my initial implementation too |
| 18:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 12:59:17 asciilifeform: thinking about it, no need for field, simply need to avoid updating port in AT, only update ip when valid packet is received from new one |
| 18:38 |
asciilifeform |
( much simpler than 'full bore' irc say ) |
| 18:39 |
punkman |
I did some googling about "outgoing UDP port" then, didn't get to bottom of it though |
| 18:39 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: initially asciilifeform concretely wanted to avoid 'standard port' but seems that without some port fixation of whatever kind , will be a bitch to speak via nat |
| 18:40 |
asciilifeform |
the headache with ephemeral ports is that most routers require the machine behind the nat to 'keep it alive' by sending packets over some unspecified interval |
| 18:40 |
asciilifeform |
if stops doing this -- that port gets closed and the next packet will come outta a new ephemeral port |
| |
↖ |
| 18:41 |
asciilifeform |
typical 'worx in nat' udpisms solve this simply by being 'chatty' enuff |
| 18:46 |
punkman |
perhaps a problem with how the python socket is set up |
| 18:47 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: not to say there isn't, but simply the default behaviour of a nat is sufficient to explain the ports thing |
| 18:47 |
asciilifeform |
upstack, thimbronion , why would this cause dupes ? |
| 18:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 11:59:53 thimbronion: the multiple messages were due to shinohai having two entries for you in the wot. Now there's only one and we aren't seeing anymore duplicated messages. |
| 18:48 |
asciilifeform |
if his station spuriously rebroadcast asciilifeform's msg , they oughta have still been properly deduped by the receivers |
| 18:48 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: haven't had time to repro and debug locally, so I don't know precicely why. |
| 18:48 |
asciilifeform |
a ok |
| 18:49 |
asciilifeform |
i still suspect broken deduper, for above reason |
| 18:49 |
asciilifeform |
(possibly the thing alters timestamps when rebroadcasting ? by spec it mustn't) |
| 18:50 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: well atm no dupes, lots of broadcasting and forwarding going on... |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
(a rebroadcast msg is naturally reciphered/resigned to be readable by its receivers, but otherwise gotta stay unaltered) |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
hence why 'bounce counter' is in the packet but outside the msg |
| 18:51 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: this is how rebroadcasting is implemented, yes |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
a ok |
| 18:51 |
* |
asciilifeform will read the coad in coming days |
| 18:52 |
* |
thimbronion is certain asciilifeform will find some howlers |
| 18:54 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: i also suggest that debug spew ought not include failed decrypts unless fails for all known keys |
| 18:54 |
asciilifeform |
(the current behaviour is rather confusing) |
| 18:55 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: I will take the time to formulate the problem there. Not sure how to describe it at the moment. |
| 18:55 |
asciilifeform |
i'd simply print 'martian from ip:port' etc |
| 18:56 |
thimbronion |
honestly surprised anyone took the time to look at the debug log |
| 18:56 |
asciilifeform |
how else to debug, lol |
| 18:57 |
thimbronion |
true |
| 18:57 |
asciilifeform |
atm the log's quite edible, what with 0 spam and very few legit packets flying |
| 18:58 |
asciilifeform |
when folx start piping Gbs of warez via pest, may be trickier |
| 18:58 |
asciilifeform |
( and doubtful that a py client will keep up , fwiw ) |
| 18:58 |
thimbronion |
indeed. used to be more verbose, displaying ciphertext, and more |
| 18:59 |
asciilifeform |
btw for 'production' client you prolly dun want keys in logs under any circumstance |
| 18:59 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: yep |
| 19:02 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: would be interesting to stress test the py client and see when it falls down |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
indeed |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
if correct logic, won't 'fall down' as such, simply will run outta cpu above some incoming packet rate |
| 19:04 |
thimbronion |
right |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
| 19:34 |
asciilifeform |
wb cdd |
| 19:40 |
cdd |
Good day to you asciilifeform, just reading logs and the material attached to them. |
| 19:40 |
asciilifeform |
cdd: it aint lispm-related, but possibly you may find interesting. |
| 19:45 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063899 << It makes sense, I don't normally think in this way (despite having multiple computers I SSH into daily). Lack of good judgment I guess. |
| 19:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 09:39:33 asciilifeform: see also. |
| 19:46 |
cdd |
...nor do I run a botnet :-D |
| 19:47 |
asciilifeform |
cdd: dunno whether you're familiar with bitcoin net, but it is a good example of sybilism, in fact ~90% of the nominal nodes are operated by enemy and thing still works nevertheless |
| 19:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-17 16:37:18 asciilifeform: re upstack , imho important q for any participant to answer ~for himself~, 'does bitcoin work? what does it mean for it to work?' (see also e.g.) |
| 19:56 |
cdd |
Hm I see. |
| 19:57 |
cdd |
I have a limited understanding of Bitcoin, but I have a somewhat decent understanding of "tokenomics" and other abstract shitcoin biz. |
| |
↖ |
| 19:59 |
asciilifeform |
illustration of principle. |
| 20:02 |
shinohai |
Speaking of "tokenomics" this came through the hopper earlier: https://ghostbin.com/WZGrd |
| 20:02 |
shinohai |
^ punkman might appreciate |
| 20:03 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: wassat? |
| 20:03 |
shinohai |
It's a malicious "flash loan" contract for those using various mETHereums. |
| 20:05 |
asciilifeform |
lolk |
| 20:07 |
asciilifeform |
'На жадину не нужен нож, / Ему покажешь медный грош / И делай с ним, что хошь.'(tm)(r)('song of basilio the cat' ('for a greedy bastard, you need no knife, show'im a penny -- he'll give his life' approx.) |
| |
~ 55 minutes ~ |
| 21:02 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063883 << Good read. Though I'm not a writer, I'm just an observer. I think it provides me with an "easy exit" at any time. |
| 21:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 08:58:51 billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1063874 << BingoBoingo once did a writeup on the futility and strategic failings of "being anonymous" on the internet http://bingology.net/2018/censorship-resistance-in-2018-an-introduction/?b=At%20the%20same&e=plight#select |
| 21:07 |
cdd |
I think anonymity (however fickle a thing) serves it's purpose well for an observer. Especially investigating communities that you would certainly rather have separated from your AFK identity. I.e. various imageboards, communities etc. One might later regret those communications (as I have in the past). |
| |
↖ |
| 21:08 |
cdd |
...and choose instead to erase their ties with it completely. |
| |
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~ |
| 22:17 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: my rationale for implementing blatta in python was: just get up a p2p thing that everyone can use to chat and test out/iron out the spec so we can get off of IRC asap. Do you think it's worth finishing, even though it likely won't be able to handle heavier traffic uses? |
| 22:28 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: imho defo worth |
| 22:28 |
asciilifeform |
hell, asciilifeform still uses v.py. |
| 22:29 |
asciilifeform |
6y+ later. |
| 22:29 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: alright |
| 22:29 |
asciilifeform |
a working gadget is over9000x better than 'wait for someday' |
| 22:29 |
asciilifeform |
esp. given that having it in no way interferes (quite opposite, in fact) w/ making 'adult' item |
| 22:30 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064161 << even there what you ~actually~ want is pseudonymity, not anonymity |
| |
↖ |
| 22:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 16:07:32 cdd: I think anonymity (however fickle a thing) serves it's purpose well for an observer. Especially investigating communities that you would certainly rather have separated from your AFK identity. I.e. various imageboards, communities etc. One might later regret those communications (as I have in the past). |
| 22:30 |
asciilifeform |
they aint the same thing. |
| 22:30 |
asciilifeform |
all anonymity does is to destroy the very possibility of human relations. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| 22:31 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. literally no one knows whether message n+1 is by same person as n and n-1 |
| |
↖ |
| 22:32 |
asciilifeform |
there's no actual win from this, it is simply fraudulently foisted on folx as a 'either erryone signs with passport name, or this' pseudoinevitability. |
| 22:33 |
asciilifeform |
if yer passion in life is, dunno, zoophile forums, you still want continuity if you want something like actual social life in functioning relations with fellow zoophiles |
| |
↖ |
| 22:33 |
asciilifeform |
full anonymity just gets you 1) spamola 2) provocateurs |
| 22:34 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. anonymity may seem to serve 'your' purpose, cdd, but actually is a concept slipped to you by your enemy, and serves more so ~his~ purpose than your own. |
| 22:34 |
asciilifeform |
divide'an'conquer. |
| 22:36 |
* |
asciilifeform fwiw doesn't much go in for ~either~ kind, on his www right there is his human name and folx without much effort can and regularly do contact him in meatspace |
| 22:37 |
* |
asciilifeform uses handles largely outta tradition/stylistic whim |
| 22:40 |
asciilifeform |
!!key cdd |
| 22:40 |
deedbot |
Not registered. |
| 22:41 |
asciilifeform |
cdd: see, for instance if you haven't a pgp key, you can't get on anybody's (well, can only speak for self, but i dun expect anyone wants to send a pest key via plaintext) pest net. |
| 22:42 |
asciilifeform |
making a wot identity doesn't force the maker to reveal his passport name, office addr, or whatever. |
| |
↖ |
| 22:42 |
asciilifeform |
simply makes it possible for other folx to know that they're talking to ~a someone~ rather than a sequence of nsa stooges or misc. fauna |
| 22:44 |
asciilifeform |
when you send a pgpgram to e.g. asciilifeform , you can be (reasonably) certain that it'll be read by the fella who signed e.g. trb genesis and so on. |
| 22:45 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. there's a continuity. |
| 22:47 |
asciilifeform |
aaand with such continuity, you can do biz. without -- can only (at best) chitchat. |
| 22:56 |
asciilifeform |
... pest is very deliberately not neutral in this political cut. |
| 22:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-07 17:58:59 signpost: also worth considering that at the bottom of every software design is a particular political view |
| 22:57 |
asciilifeform |
it is for folx who would rather keep company with continuous identities than with amoebic froth. |
| 22:58 |
asciilifeform |
imho there is no actual advantage to deliberately taking the position of amoeba, living 'on birds' rights' among people; only illusory 'advantages'. but it is not simple to convince noobs of this, typically they gotta see (or not) for themselves. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| |
~ 56 minutes ~ |
| 23:55 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064193 << It seems I've confused being anonymous with obfuscating my personal life. I think a continuity of identity is essential to any reasonable human interaction, however I don't think that identity should reveal the kinds of information as mentioned here. My problem is when the limited information is |
| 23:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 17:58:54 asciilifeform: imho there is no actual advantage to deliberately taking the position of amoeba, living 'on birds' rights' among people; only illusory 'advantages'. but it is not simple to convince noobs of this, typically they gotta see (or not) for themselves. |
| 23:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 17:42:23 asciilifeform: making a wot identity doesn't force the maker to reveal his passport name, office addr, or whatever. |
| 23:55 |
cdd |
supplied it's typically very easy to find the rest. I also self-host, I'm consistently (and irrationally) paranoid that my server might get pwn'd (even though there is no rational reason why it would. |
| 23:56 |
cdd |
I don't even host anything of tangible value, but there's a fear that I say something that might just tip someone off to fuck with me. |
| 23:58 |
cdd |
All I host is a personal plain HTTP site and a HTTP/FTP (Public read) server. |
| 23:59 |
cdd |
I have zero confidence in my ability to set up and secure the server everything's running on. |