Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-03-20 | 2022-03-22 → ↓
00:00 asciilifeform similarly, e.g. asciilifeform's peh machine also worx. problem is on other end.
00:00 verisimilitude I've built software; I'm not delusional all day.
00:00 * signpost returns covered in sawdust and stain to pile of logs, oh boy
00:00 asciilifeform wb signpost
00:00 signpost good evening asciilifeform
00:03 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086107 << this is the confounding factor at all levels, that for political reasons, sane standardization of interfaces is thwarted.
00:03 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 13:02:35 mangol: a lot of the layering in MS/Apple/Linux is redundant. if we could have a system where only the communication protocols are redundant, and the core is refactored such that each concern is addressed only once, that'd be ideal
00:03 signpost later in this thread it is illustrated why.
00:04 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086113 << they're all solipsistic narcissists which require external motivation to collaborate, either great wealth or pain. hopefully both.
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00:04 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 13:06:06 mangol: if we could get all the Lisp and ML people working together on one system, it'd be a solved problem
00:05 signpost they don't get into computing because it is beautiful, but because it's a way to hide from the world while thinking oneself atop it.
00:06 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086112 << ah yep.
00:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 13:05:35 mangol: but these people can't work together to save their lives
00:07 asciilifeform signpost: the folx who went in 'because beautiful' aint doing so much better either. there's no way around fact that certain things require serious resources (and it even discourages attempts at items which don't. e.g. pest could've easily existed in 1990s; why didn't it?)
00:07 signpost in a functioning society hopefully artistry reaches its peak in engineering.
00:08 signpost but yes, definitely need the *whole society* to have what that's worth doing, such that mind-amplification is needed.
00:08 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086352 These insults are getting personal.
00:08 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 20:04:09 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086113 << they're all solipsistic narcissists which require external motivation to collaborate, either great wealth or pain. hopefully both.
00:08 signpost would you rather it weren't true, sweetheart?
00:08 signpost it isn't so scary to be wrong; I do it all the time.
00:09 verisimilitude I only mentioned it as mock offense.
00:09 signpost given as received, lol
00:09 verisimilitude Yes, the purpose was to get a laugh.
00:09 * signpost believes in the time-honored tradition of men giving each other shit as much as possible.
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00:10 asciilifeform ^
00:10 verisimilitude On that note, signpost, I don't believe great collaboration be needed.
00:10 asciilifeform signpost: is how things worked, back when they worked
00:10 verisimilitude One man who gets the computer working well enough can replace thousands.
00:10 signpost on that we quite agree.
00:11 verisimilitude I'm slowly foccussing on writing correct software; compare that to Linux, which is broken in millions of uninteresting ways, but has a lot of support.
00:11 asciilifeform verisimilitude: consider interesting fate of k. zuse -- who built a working comp for the last reich, in his mother's kitchen. 0 uptake, eventually smashed by british bomb and that was it
00:11 verisimilitude I'll just need to be more fortunate than he.
00:12 asciilifeform a++ plan lol
00:13 verisimilitude Also, while it's on my mind, I've had two offers to work for others fail, signpost. If I could get some Bitcoin, I'd make an address and get to work.
00:13 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086137 << seems either can work if the total production rule space of possible inputs cannot cause the machine to crash.
00:13 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 14:39:01 mangol: the claim that visual programming can avoid degenerating into a "tower of babel" like text-based programming is interesting. i'm skeptical.
00:14 asciilifeform verisimilitude: what kinda work are you willing to do ? worth putting in log imho
00:14 verisimilitude http://verisimilitudes.net/commissions
00:14 * signpost will say if work comes up, nothing needed atm
00:14 asciilifeform 404
00:14 verisimilitude http://verisimilitudes.net/commission
00:14 asciilifeform a
00:14 verisimilitude I've never linked to it before.
00:15 asciilifeform the 2nd link worx. ty verisimilitude
00:15 verisimilitude It's no issue.
00:15 verisimilitude I wrote it long ago; notice it reads as if a normal person wrote it.
00:15 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086138 << the challenge is that the populist mob moves the turds faster than you can modify your adapter.
00:15 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 14:39:53 mangol: my approach to babel = turd polishing, once again. try to get existing langs working together, coordinating stuff that doesn't have to differ
00:16 * signpost has chosen to freeze a particular gentoo linux in vpatches, then to ratchet the thing down to the absolute minimum necessary to sit atop (and build) a linux kernel
00:17 signpost has its own problems, but hardware drifts a little more slowly.
00:17 * signpost still has g4 macs in service.
00:18 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086143 << see: dataflow
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00:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 14:43:17 jonsykkel: never understood why no programing langs have concept of a wire. for wireing shit together like u do with hardware
00:19 asciilifeform verilog incidentally very much has 'concept of wire'
00:19 asciilifeform in fact even called... 'wire'.
00:21 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086154 << very much want to see a proper hypertext system with transclusion and zui. holy graph of knowledge.
00:21 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 14:49:08 mangol: FWIW Jef Raskin (of Canon Cat) did a bunch of experiments with zoomable user interfaces (ZUI) with excellent results, was convinced those are the future
00:21 signpost editable right there in the same program, of course.
00:23 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086165 << we should be sharing ASTs with each other, not characters. why do I care how you want to represent the AST?
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00:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 14:56:57 verisimilitude: It disgusts me that equality, addition, multiplication, and select others are so privileged so as to be given slots in the character sets, whereas other notations aren't made so omnipresent and innate. The decimal digits are included in this disgust; such things shouldn't be embedded into foundations.''
00:23 signpost maybe I like mine to be interpretive dance. none of your business!
00:25 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086182 << (nods emphatically)
00:25 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 15:09:01 mangol: the obvious way to start in visual programming is to make window dressing for lisp macros (i.e. each macro call is shown as a user-friendly GUI widget)
00:25 signpost there is no difference between this and writing UI for *any other data model*
00:26 signpost oughta be a functional transform to and from AST
00:26 signpost said otherwise, every UI state corresponds to one precise statement in a production rule space
00:26 signpost *grammar
00:29 * signpost worked for a while on precisely this proggy for a failed startup. you'd feed it an arbitrary EBNF, and it'd give you an interface against which to code a visual representation of statements in that grammar.
00:29 signpost we even did some experiments with autogenerating the UI. ours was crappy, but could be done better.
00:30 signpost wasn't the typical lego-block UI, looked more like a machine.
00:30 signpost best one we did was a SQL query editor.
00:32 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086213 << one addressing space for all knowledge and hierarchy of caches (puffs doob)
00:32 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 15:25:41 mangol: pervasive checkpointing should be here any decade now
00:33 signpost this "files and directories" thing on disk is as skeuomorphic as microsoft bob
00:34 signpost should just be a cache of the stuff stored in the signpost namespace, plus whatever other namespaces interest me.
00:37 signpost https://archives.loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html << for folks that want to try genera
00:39 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086402 The idea remains vague compared to tabular programming, as I mention, but an AST is insufficient. The AST for a C language program is still a C language program.
00:39 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 20:22:23 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086165 << we should be sharing ASTs with each other, not characters. why do I care how you want to represent the AST?
00:40 signpost verisimilitude: actually the editor I described was written as sql tables.
00:40 signpost we made sql eat itself.
00:40 signpost was fucking painful, but just because of the language involved. the abstract model was elegant.
00:40 verisimilitude May I read about it anywhere?
00:41 signpost I think the guy's still at it here
00:41 signpost open sourced the thing
00:42 verisimilitude I want a program to be a true work of art. I want to be able to hang printed representations of my programs on the walls.
00:42 * signpost hasn't spoken to him in years, but was a fun walk for a while.
00:42 signpost verisimilitude: hey, they do it with bridges and buildings.
00:43 signpost computing's still making mud huts, but someday.
00:44 verisimilitude The idea behind the high-level language was to truly allow the programmer to define his own notation.
00:45 verisimilitude Imagine the original APL by Ken Iverson.
00:45 verisimilitude Imagine everyone having the freedom Ken Iverson had.
00:46 verisimilitude Even the decimal digits wouldn't have privileged symbols.
00:46 signpost in the limit, one oughta feel they are thinking-with the item, mechanised daydreams. not there yet.
00:48 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086278 << nope, entirely wrong reason to simplify computing.
00:48 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 18:46:20 mats: why do you think we need an os after collapse
00:48 signpost you need a bigger gang than the gangs next to you, is what you need in collapse.
00:48 signpost only reason to work to refine computing is if it helps avoid getting there.
00:52 * signpost still thinks a global, distributed "gang" is possible with the correct tools.
00:55 verisimilitude The USG already exists.
00:56 * signpost doesn't preclude them from joining the wot, even.
00:59 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086313 << it is this precariousness that makes it unlikely, though.
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00:59 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 19:42:34 asciilifeform: to return upstack -- there's precious little in the way of an audience for 'machines for collapse'. rich folx -- who could actually make the ball roll -- seem preoccupied with moving to bananistans (where will have to learn to like bananas to exclusion of all else; or, if luck fails, eaten to supplement diet of somebody who doesn't) ; those not rich -- generally preoccupied with moar mundane things, e.g. h
01:00 * signpost more interested in there being demonstrated sanity at the point the other thing breaks. one doesn't have to help it break.
01:01 signpost but any of us surviving "the churn" if it comes will make us different people than went in. who knows what happens then.
01:03 signpost probably places which subsist at a lower level will end up ahead. maybe 0.1% of americans know how to kill an animal. how many of those know how to clean and eat it without making themselves ill?
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01:05 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086317 << verisimilitude this is where you lose the opportunity to make a worthwhile point by leaving the substance inside your head.
01:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 19:48:17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086275 << would e.g. ftp make moar sense ? or what's the implication ?
01:05 signpost could've said "what, we're going to do http chunk reassembly now? thought we didn't want fragmentation at the IP level, let alone way up here"
01:06 signpost then the other guy says he meant a broader request/response mechanism, perhaps using yes, a browser as a stopgap UI.
01:10 * signpost considers this a primary mechanism in a republic, the social constellation of balanced counterpressure.
01:10 signpost see also: golden age roman literature
01:11 signpost upstack, should just do a DHT on it, ask peers for $hash
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01:11 signpost this gives a hypertext system, wares, whatever.
01:11 signpost index chunks for search also go in the DHT
01:12 signpost that bit isn't as trivial, worth research and thought.
01:12 * signpost burps, satisfying logs
01:22 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086448 << there's enuff meat in forest for maybe 0.001, lol
01:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 21:03:08 signpost: probably places which subsist at a lower level will end up ahead. maybe 0.1% of americans know how to kill an animal. how many of those know how to clean and eat it without making themselves ill?
01:22 asciilifeform (optimistically, and if 'each other' also incl. in 'meat')
01:24 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086444 << imho e.g. this is moar immed.-term boojum than full-scale 'eat tree bark' tho
01:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 20:58:45 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086313 << it is this precariousness that makes it unlikely, though.
01:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-04 15:43:25 asciilifeform: (3) country-wide lan in place of actual internet (north kr; ru during 'practice drills for ww3')
~ 1 hours 54 minutes ~
03:19 crtdaydreams "Some people never go crazy, What truly horrible lives they must live."- Charles Bukowski
~ 42 minutes ~
04:02 vex signpost. if you want cool pirate hat, buy a new stetson and come to oz for a couple of weeks.
04:07 vex it'll get fucked up
04:13 vex funny thing is, if you fly in to melbourne with a fresh one; they'll look at you funny. if it's got bullet holes and associated naughty, cool as bro
04:18 vex we generally get akubras, so a stetson would be a nice gif
04:27 vex crtdaydreams, your xyz is 403
04:29 vex i'm not html expert. i spent days writing expert gotos in c64 basic, write to tape and expand tommorrow
04:32 verisimilitude Hello again, vex.
04:32 verisimilitude How vexing thy words can be.
04:32 vex ah, the etho doeth flow in thine hema
04:33 vex it's a curse
04:33 vex *mine?
04:34 verisimilitude What?
04:37 vex *etoh
04:37 vex it's not new information
04:38 verisimilitude I agree.
04:41 vex your output is also a little bit unruly changeable
04:43 vex whats the mp joke?
04:43 verisimilitude He finally learned how to exit vi.
04:44 vex idgi
04:44 verisimilitude He died.
04:44 verisimilitude He's a former vi user.
04:44 vex what's it like ctrl/rum
04:44 verisimilitude It was funnier when I first thought of it, but this context isn't too kind towards it.
04:45 verisimilitude No, I believe it's :q.
04:45 vex hanbot's looking trim and terrific
04:52 vex no more leftovers
05:03 verisimilitude Care for a better joke?
05:03 vex of course
05:03 verisimilitude I've not put this one on my jokes page yet.
05:04 verisimilitude What should one call a group of homosexuals, all of whom agree with one another?
05:04 verisimilitude An HIVmind.
05:05 vex I chortled
05:05 verisimilitude I'm glad.
05:07 verisimilitude I thought of this joke after being kicked from an IRC channel I'd joined, after they went through my work and called me a bigot; I was acting unawares it was a den of faggotry until that point.
05:07 verisimilitude Care to see the logs of that, I suppose?
05:07 vex just tell me the joke bitch
05:07 verisimilitude There's no joke this time.
05:08 verisimilitude No, I thought of the joke I'd already told, vex.
05:08 vex nevermind. i get it
05:09 vex just like pest, whats already been said
05:09 vex doesn't bear repeating
05:10 verisimilitude It's a shame, really; I try to branch out of my usual venues, and walk into a den of homosexuals.
05:11 verisimilitude So much of the Internet is a cess pit.
05:11 vex hey. oyu haven't been to siam yet
05:11 vex relax
05:11 verisimilitude I hate the idea that I already be everywhere worth being.
05:12 verisimilitude Explain ``siam''.
05:12 vex now known as thailand
05:13 verisimilitude I'd a relative who lived there, I believe.
05:13 verisimilitude He didn't discuss it much.
05:16 vex log deltetes
05:18 verisimilitude What?
05:20 vex nothing.
05:25 verisimilitude How vexing.
~ 2 hours 58 minutes ~
08:23 crtdaydreams vex: brain fog. productivity f-- the whole existence of re: CollapseOS is really fucking depressing ngl
08:25 crtdaydreams Read that in the morning and over the day I had a few hours to myself and time to think. Honestly CollapseOS is best-case scenario.
08:26 crtdaydreams Kinda hit home how fucked the economy is, and what times ahead are going to really be like.
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~ 5 hours 24 minutes ~
13:51 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086523 << if the internet splinters, it'll be even harder than now to find information, and esoteric info hardest of all
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13:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 04:26:17 crtdaydreams: Kinda hit home how fucked the economy is, and what times ahead are going to really be like.
13:52 mangol that makes it even more pressing to curate information into archives now that it's still doable
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13:53 mangol we should make a big archive of all the "Right Thing" computer literature we can find
13:54 mangol even if the internet stays in ~one piece, that kind of info is in danger of being lost to time anyway, so the work isn't lost
13:55 mangol work isn't lost = work isn't wasted
13:58 PeterL hey mangol, I have been wondering how to interpret your handle, is it like first initial last name (M. Angol), name and last initial (Mango L.), or a mangled form of the English word "magle"?
13:58 mangol lol. Mango L. is the intent. a friend gave it to me
14:00 mangol my first name is lassi which is vexing (sorry, couldn't resist to continue the pun) to pronounce. the right pronounciation is as in "mango lassi". that's where the nick came from
14:01 mangol lassi is the finnish equivalent of larry
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
15:31 PeterL http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-19#1085827 << Mormons tentacles reach everywhere, even penetrated here >:)
15:31 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-19 00:50:27 signpost: mats: those entertaining logs failed at what mormons could pull off, consider.
15:32 PeterL but it might be useful to consider why we are successful - I can't be sure exactly, but I have been trying to think of it the past few days
15:33 PeterL we do have some aspects that have been at least somewhat praised here from time to time - hierachial organization, division into groups of roughly dunbar number, the girls learn to bake a pie
15:35 asciilifeform PeterL: iirc mormon 'vatican' also plays role of a hedge fund. prolly helps
15:35 PeterL and there is an expectation of personal investment that ties one into the group moreso than other groups manage
15:36 asciilifeform they're extremely well organized, and stealthily. asciilifeform once ended up in a salt mine where took almost a whole yr to find out that ~only mormons promoted (or treated w/ any respect whatsoever)
15:37 PeterL heh, seems unusual being where you are as opposed to UT or surrounding
15:37 asciilifeform right, was surprising
15:37 asciilifeform but not utterly surprising, they have a mega-cathedral here and evidently the numbers
15:39 PeterL Actually, town where I live has a higher-than-average mormon population because one got into the Dow Chemical management and then spent a couple decades recruting from the BYU business school
~ 25 minutes ~
16:04 * signpost has a utilitarian view of organizing principles of an effective cult. didn't much "believe" in bsdm either.
16:04 signpost proof is in the girls baking pie
16:05 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086526 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-20#1086455
16:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 09:51:59 mangol: that makes it even more pressing to curate information into archives now that it's still doable
16:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-20 21:10:39 signpost: upstack, should just do a DHT on it, ask peers for $hash
16:11 mangol signpost: hash-addressed archive is exactly what i've been thinking about
16:11 whaack !w poll
16:12 watchglass Polling 15 nodes...
16:12 watchglass 94.176.238.102:8333 : Could not connect!
16:12 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375 (Operator: asciilifeform)
16:12 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.111s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.090s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.157s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375 (Operator: asciilifeform)
16:12 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.288s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.331s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.281s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728375 (Operator: whaack)
16:12 watchglass 75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect!
16:12 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.588s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
16:12 watchglass 103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.491s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=350670 (Operator: whaack)
16:12 whaack !e height
16:12 trbexplorer whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
16:12 whaack !e view-height
16:12 trbexplorer block_height: 728375
16:12 trbexplorer mins_since_last_block: 7
16:13 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
16:16 mangol signpost: we should cook something up
16:17 mangol is gopher usable for fetching content by hash? the protocol is not optimal, but it's simple, and it's there
16:22 * signpost oughta write up what's in his head, but would probably be inappropriate to graft a connection-based request/response protocol to Pest.
16:22 signpost mangol: http://trinque.org/2022/02/19/online-codes-in-python-wip/ << I wrote this (yet incomplete) implementation of a fountain code that's probably useful here.
16:25 signpost quick sketch would be something like the following. my node sends (request hash) over pest as a new message type. this flood-fills over the network, and nodes that have the hash locally reply with (offer hash) if they feel like it.
16:25 signpost (perhaps this involves whether they're currently servicing someone else's request, whatever it may be.
16:25 signpost )
16:25 PeterL signpost: would you set up a separate pest network for the DHT-requests, or would it somehow ride on top of the network people are using to chat?
16:25 signpost new message type
16:26 * signpost left off that the offer oughta come with an OTP.
16:26 mangol oh yeah, flood routing is an interesting feature re: putting something DHT-like on top of pest
16:27 PeterL would there be a second message from the requestor to say it is complete? (and would time out eventually if no completed-message arrives?)
16:27 * mangol plans to invest heavily in content-addressable everything during the next few years
16:27 signpost my node then sends (retrieve hash otp port) to as many nodes as it wants, and those nodes may then respond with a fountain-code stream of udp packets to that port.
16:28 signpost nice thing about the fountain code is that the sending nodes don't have to coordinate with where they start generating blocks as long as they use the same params for the encoder
16:28 signpost they just pick a random offset each.
16:29 signpost probably agreeing on encoder params requires additional steps. one could hardcode them to start, and assume that the channel between is not very lossy. usually true. later one could try to discover lossiness with test transfers, see how many packets are dropped of a given sequence.
16:29 signpost were we on radio, that'd probably be desirable
16:30 signpost mangol: yep, good wartime practice.
16:30 PeterL so the actual file transfer is not done over pest, just the request?
16:32 signpost PeterL: perhaps entirely within pest, and sent as DM rather than rebroadcast to everyone
16:33 PeterL maybe have another message type that is the file transfer (like a DM, it is not rebraodcast)?
16:36 mangol IRC has CTCP and DCC which were bolted on as afterthoughts. why not do similar things from the start in pest
16:36 mangol could even implement /me messages lol
16:36 mangol most critical wartime feature
16:36 * signpost ded
16:36 mangol exactly :D :D
16:37 mangol ded man's switch to auto-broadcast that
16:38 signpost idea above is by no means complete, but wanted to prompt others to think about p2p filesharing pest-tronically.
16:39 signpost one will want to think about how search works atop this also.
16:40 PeterL mangol, could you expand how CTCP is different from normal pest operation, or how signpost's thing is differnt from DCC?
16:40 mangol signpost: oh yeah. you have good ideas
16:41 signpost just thinking from first principles outward from asciilifeform's pest
16:41 mangol PeterL: in IRC, CTCP is a PRIVMSG/NOTICE where the first and last bytes are 0x01 (IIRC). that's a hack because IRC doesn't have native CTCP and CTCPREPLY messages
16:41 mangol pest is new, so ideally could avoid using such a hack
16:42 PeterL so a sort of hack to implement the message types that pest has?
16:43 * mangol would like to have a "drip" protocol where you subscribe to peers in your WoT, and they propagate interesting content to you
16:43 mangol content would drip through the network, so nobody knows who originated the content
16:43 mangol drip as in coffee or something. need the feed, etc.
16:44 signpost possibly can implement that without a new message type, just designate a particular netchain the juicy gossip thread
16:45 mangol basically you'd think "this guy always comes across interesting stuff" and add his key to your drip wot. then all his stuff, and his friends' stuff, would come to you
16:45 * signpost imagines he will have a netchain which broadcasts his new blog posts to those that care, etc
16:45 signpost yeah, definitely implementable with existing concepts
16:45 mangol yeah, could be doable as a simple extension of pest
16:46 signpost not even, netchain's there as 3.2.3.1 in the spek
16:46 mangol if you wanna hear someone's pest messages, you probably wanna hear about their links too
16:46 signpost http://pestnet.io/whitepaper.html#3231-netchain-broadcast-messages
16:46 PeterL or have a pest network where anybody posts the hash of interesting stuff, then people can grab it using signpost's thing? (does it need a name yet?)
16:48 mangol seems like pestnet.io's TLS cert needs tweaking btw
16:48 mangol the web server's, that is
16:48 mangol oh, it has a localhost cert, heh
16:49 signpost this'd be mega-handy for retrieving someone's new vpatches.
16:49 signpost pentacle might like those put in an inbox for review and inclusion in your local patches/seals dirs
16:50 signpost mangol: your browser probably insisted on hitting that port, rather than the server redirecting
16:50 PeterL mangol: have you gotten v running yet?
16:50 mangol signpost: entirely possible
16:50 mangol PeterL: nope, i have yet to read the V tutorial and study the reference impl
16:51 PeterL let us know if you have any questions
16:51 mangol great!
16:51 mangol greta!
16:51 mangol heh
16:52 PeterL it is possible to, for example, get blatta running without a v (you just have to apply all the patches manually), but v makes it easier
16:55 mangol does V store a signed tree of commits?
16:57 PeterL not sure I understand the question, but isn't that what vpatches and seals are (maybe trying to mix two different lingos here)?
16:59 signpost mangol: https://archive.ph/pRfAz
16:59 mangol https://djrankings.org/DJ-BEN_VULPES << this is what is found when trying to find the V tutorial linked from loper's sidebar
17:00 signpost lol
17:00 signpost not the same guy
17:00 mangol looking for the V-jay, not the D-jay
17:01 mangol glorious visual programming future getting closer by the day
17:01 signpost one man's endless quest for the vjay.
17:01 mangol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VJing
17:01 signpost was making a vagina joke over here.
17:02 mangol oh lol
17:02 signpost v centers on the principle that patches are to be first read, later used to modify source code.
17:03 signpost a vpatch contains a keccak hash of each source file antecedent, and out of this forms a tree.
17:03 mangol also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijay_(given_name)
17:03 mangol Vijay (Devanagari विजय; Urdu وجے) is a Hindu male given name meaning 'victory'.
17:05 signpost patches are signed, and signatures are trusted based upon your local trusted keys.
17:06 signpost ben's post will go into more detail
17:16 billymg hiya mangol, been enjoying reading your discussions with the others here
17:16 billymg i maintain the pestnet.io site, afaict it shouldn't be redirecting you to https
17:17 signpost looks like maybe your webserver has a default config for TLS
17:17 signpost browsers are often redirecting to that these days if they find it available.
17:17 signpost (doesn't matter, just explaining what's likely happening)
17:17 billymg signpost: ah, hrm. ok i'll look into that
~ 38 minutes ~
17:56 mangol billymg: thanks, appreciate it!
17:57 mangol great bunch of people. welcome relief from the naive leftism and lack of vision in most programming communities
18:03 mangol what's the deal with The Most Serene Republic, did mp really believe he'd stand a chance of founding a cryptostate? i wasn't around at the time
18:08 PeterL The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin, which can be viewed as the de jure state occupied by anybody using bitcoin, or more specifically the people in the specific community (vestiges of which are still represented here)
18:10 mangol mainly people around #bitcoin-assets and #trilema AFAICT?
18:10 PeterL you will probably get a different definition from any of the participating people, perhaps asciilifeform or signpost would be more authoratative than I
18:11 PeterL but yes, pretty much it is a way to refer to the people who were in #bitcoin-assets -> #trilema -> #asciilifeform
18:12 mangol was the idea to start by usin bitcoin as money, and eventually (god willing) progress to other things like contracts, legislation, etc.?
18:13 mangol and V is part of the same mentality
18:14 PeterL I suppose v is a natural result of the mentality
18:15 PeterL the idea was to build a cummunity of thinking people with technology designed to support useful interactions (I might be oversimplifying everything here)
18:16 PeterL have you come across the idea of "proceeding from causes ratther than to purposes"?
18:17 mangol not sure. is that the same as bottom-up design, or something fancier?
18:17 mangol i.e. start from first principles and see where you end up
18:17 PeterL http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ << this post I think explains it
18:23 PeterL ^ sorry, this article
18:25 PeterL (at one point mp made a stink about calling things on blogs "articles" instead of "posts")
18:26 PeterL http://peterl.xyz/2019/11/post-vs-article/
18:26 signpost mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-05-05#1121599
18:26 dulapbot (trilema) 2015-05-05 mircea_popescu: im not making a different country. i'm making THESE countries. let the reds make "their own country", on fucking mars preferably.
18:33 signpost mangol: http://deedbot.org/deed-382703-1.txt << see also
↖
18:35 mangol both sides are wrong. clearly the correct term is "poast"
↖
18:36 signpost I didn't write the latter item, but signed.
18:37 signpost hard to summarize the era, except that proceeded from ^ first principles.
18:38 signpost unfortunately ended with mp succumbing to drink, whoring, ocean.
18:40 signpost everything else in bitcoin runs at 100x the classical rate of history, so why not cults too.
18:44 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086679 << was this declaration written in earnest?
18:44 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 14:32:25 signpost: mangol: http://deedbot.org/deed-382703-1.txt << see also
18:45 signpost earnest is what signing means.
18:45 verisimilitude I don't use the word ``blog''; my Gopher hole and website have articles or writings, not posts.
18:45 signpost signed and dated via deedbot, i.e. hashed and hash farted to the bitcoin blockchain
18:46 * signpost still calls himself ideologically republican.
↖
18:46 mangol "we are absolved from all allegiance to any entity", etc. when the legacy state jackboots arrive, they might beg to differ
18:47 signpost jackboots may arrive for whatever reason they wish, including my political views supposedly protected on a parchment somewhere.
18:47 * signpost has no delusions of grandeur on ability to wield his will beyond his own arse. doesn't change what's true.
18:49 mangol true things don't rely on signing a document. important people signing documents about what's true is precisely how the derp state corrupts science.
18:49 mangol climate consensus, covid consensus, gender consensus, etc.
18:49 signpost tmsr for a time was an internally ideologically consistent culture.
18:50 mangol an ideologically consistent irc channel
18:50 signpost this is the same "practical" dismissal you leveled at coping with modern computing.
18:50 mangol sorry for playing devilÃ's advocate.just think it's important to have a reality check now and then
18:51 signpost it's a defense mechanism; one wants to believe that there's merit in selecting among doomed alternatives.
18:51 signpost I'm satisfied with being doomed.
18:51 signpost anything beyond it tastes better.
18:51 signpost I will not defeat global communism. it will rot and fall inward. it doesn't need help.
18:53 mangol i don't want to stop anyone from living according to their preferences; just trying to help maintain self-awareness
18:53 signpost tmsr deaded quite a while ago at this point.
18:54 mangol unless i'm reading it wrong somehow, that declaration seems self-unaware to the point that it might harm the signatories
18:54 signpost you'll find pages of critique of the era from myself and others in logs.
18:54 PeterL can it be said to be dead while we yet live?
↖
18:55 signpost mangol: when the russian empire expands to reabsorb finland, will you be glad you behaved according to finland's local religion?
18:56 mangol lol
18:57 mangol i guess my thinking then would be more along the lines of how to avoid trouble
18:58 signpost being worried about particular thinking, or words on a screen, seems strange if freedom of speech is protected.
18:59 signpost the bible commands me to kill to punish certain acts. if I'm a christian, the fact that I don't choose to kill to avoid trouble doesn't change that it's true that god commands it.
18:59 * signpost understands the practicality of e.g. paying his taxes, w/e
18:59 signpost this doesn't make taxation just, or calling it slavery dangerous.
18:59 signpost the thug will oppress you arbitrarily; don't let him live in your mind also.
19:00 mangol the point i was trying to make is that an irc channel having a declaration of sovereignty sounds like something a teenage libertarian with more IQ than sense might do
19:00 * signpost ftr loves the dirt on which he lives. the state is not the place.
19:00 signpost it's a lazy dismissal, that.
19:00 mangol in the real world, no state will ask for your opinion on anything like this. finland and russia will never ask my opinion on anything (they might pretend to, via elections)
19:01 signpost that they don't doesn't change what's so.
19:01 signpost it just means a bayonet is up your ass, and I won't fault you for what it makes you say.
19:02 signpost I could counter with a lazy dismissal that a man of a certain age always justifies integration of his oppression to ease the discomfort.
19:03 mangol my mind isn't very successfully oppressed. my body is.
19:03 PeterL mangol: it is/was more than just an IRC channel, the IRC channel was just one way that participants could communicate
19:03 signpost PeterL: eh I don't know. I called it larping myself, and still consider it so.
19:04 mangol the number (and social status, in a very conventional sense) of participants is what really counts, not the communication channels
19:04 signpost *but* this does not make the communist state just, that there's nothing left but larping on IRC about republicanism.
19:04 signpost it was also practically a fanboy cult of personality around mp.
19:05 mangol no normal person thinks communism (or anything approximating it) is just
19:06 signpost anyway, tmsr was a failed social experiment.
19:06 mangol people suck up to the state because it oppresses their bodies if they won't. not because it oppresses their minds (though this certainly helps)
19:06 mangol take away prison, police, military. within a year nobody will obey squat
19:06 signpost glorious leader enjoyed the thing as a kind of porn. network lacked sufficient profit centers and outreach to grow.
19:06 signpost many other problems.
19:06 asciilifeform signpost: imho never got past point of posturing, or to the point of experiment
19:07 signpost sure, wherever one wants to put it on the continuum, so long as it's "not much"
19:07 PeterL would you say Pest is a product of TMSR, or a product of the new era since TMSR died?
19:08 asciilifeform PeterL: can't speak for other folx, but asciilifeform started on the concept before showing up to #t in '14
19:08 asciilifeform for that matter, thimbronion wrote most of the prototype w/out even seeing asciilifeform's spec
19:09 asciilifeform good % of the mechanism is 'obvious' once you realize the need for it
19:11 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086708 << worked for poland, eh. 'Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła, Kiedy my żyjemy...'(tm)(r)(c)
19:11 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 14:53:33 PeterL: can it be said to be dead while we yet live?
19:11 signpost republic's a manner of interacting with other men.
19:12 signpost iirc discussed in logs that "there's only ever one, in the limit"
19:21 * signpost pretty satisfied that anarchists declaring that the state must be abolished are welcome at every captive-opposition demonstration, but the declaration still has crimethought bite.
19:25 signpost all this aside, and granting that tmsr was mostly words on a screen, it remains an open and urgent problem how to maintain the capability of assembling and thinking publicly.
19:26 * signpost believes that the solution to that problem will necessarily be republican, which means distributed and gradual hierarchy, inequality, public defense of reason via argument, all these.
19:27 asciilifeform signpost et al: worth noting precisely with what teeth that bite. 'bitcoin exists', pgp exists, and even warez still exists, reich has not been mega-successful in preventing free exchange of bits, or forcing people to sign strings they dun wanna sign. why, remains somewhat of mystery, but imho not unconnected w/ fact that reich functionaries hold btc and don't care to see it devalued
↖
19:28 asciilifeform ( e.g. asciilifeform at one pt predicted that 'anyone caught using bitcoin will end in auschwitz' but this dun seem particularly close to happening )
19:28 signpost asciilifeform: yep, notably a former KGB gent now sits in a tsar's chair. not saying it will go well, but ideology is mutable before will to power.
19:29 asciilifeform signpost: eh asciilifeform was born in the reign of andropov, who in fact went from kgb chair to throne. so current one is 2nd
19:29 signpost would be far better for bitcoin to repair the empire than destroy it, not that it's likely.
19:30 signpost yeah not calling it rare, calling it exactly how goes.
19:30 asciilifeform signpost: point is that there's a hole in traditional reign of the empire -- control over movement of money -- large enough to drive a tanker through. atm not much in the way of tanker tho
19:30 signpost power will seek the most valuable thing, and be shaped by the necessities of obtaining it
19:30 asciilifeform what people appear to lack is the 'why', rather than the 'with what'
19:31 asciilifeform it's rather as if someone had devised a means of baking nuke w/ kitchen supplies, and then turned out that nobody can be arsed
19:31 signpost suicidality is near-ubiquitous, just most aren't capable of consummating.
19:32 * signpost has interest in distributed tech to walk and order the graph of meat puppets.
19:32 asciilifeform from asciilifeform's pov, the 'meat' of 'tmsr' was the notion of getting the original internet back.
19:33 signpost yes, original in the sense that it was a selection of thinking men, pre-september
19:33 asciilifeform that one.
19:33 signpost implicit wot
19:33 asciilifeform concurrently, to get the original computer back, with it
19:36 signpost the only cultural problem is how to assemble the effective and sane.
~ 20 minutes ~
19:57 signpost ah, apparently finland has a "don't offend the muslims" law, like much of conquered yurp.
19:57 signpost mangol: sfyl, texas still has members of congress which (for entirely performative reasons) threaten to secede.
19:58 * signpost not positioning mangol to defend this ideology, of course.
20:06 verisimilitude There's still value in the opposite mode, anonymous forums.
20:07 verisimilitude When the goal be to create something, and it doesn't take years with heavy communication, it can produce good things.
20:08 PeterL anonnymous forums like reddit?
20:08 verisimilitude No, I mean like an image board.
20:08 verisimilitude Reddit is pseudonymous.
20:09 PeterL how is there a difference?
20:09 verisimilitude The 4chan is the most well-known example, although most boards there are garbage; the obscure boards still have some value, however.
20:09 asciilifeform verisimilitude: show 1 of these 'good things' ?
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20:09 asciilifeform afaik nuffin but the most abject garbage ever emerged from these
20:10 verisimilitude See, I would, but it would reveal my cult affiliation, and so I'd rather not.
20:10 asciilifeform lolk
20:10 signpost pfffft
20:10 signpost holy shit, verisimilitude is Q
20:11 asciilifeform signpost: lol, the folx w/ 'martians will land and reinstate trump' ?
20:11 PeterL and why don't you want your cult affiliation associated with you here?
20:12 verisimilitude I have different identities for different places.
20:12 verisimilitude This is my primary, but not only, sobriquet.
20:13 signpost asciilifeform: sekret pact with putin to defeat the globalists too!
20:15 asciilifeform aaaha, and capture clitler et al and hang on pedo island. in 2021.
20:15 asciilifeform iirc was promised.
20:16 signpost peasant religion, also an eternal form
20:16 signpost only one
20:17 asciilifeform controlled marionette 'religion' (reminiscent of ye olde 'uniate church' in east europe, where retained orthodox rites but controlled from rome)
20:24 signpost verisimilitude: I can see value in an anonymous hopper for e.g. leaks
20:25 signpost nothing wrong with having private relationships either.
20:25 * asciilifeform remains unconvinced that 'anon leaks' do anyffin worth mentioning
20:25 signpost only society cannot be built upon these and remain open.
20:25 asciilifeform esp. when they aint of a usable launch code
20:25 signpost not something I feel strongly about
20:25 asciilifeform e.g.
20:25 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-08 16:13:39 signpost: is pretty amused that the docs that leaked out of DARPA confirmed that the covid virus was an experimental vaccination platform for bats, and discussion of this disappeared just as quickly.
20:26 signpost yep, fart in the wind, that.
20:26 asciilifeform not to mention, reich puts considerable effort into fabricating hangouts
20:26 signpost "hunter biden laptop!1!!" also
20:26 asciilifeform e.g.
20:29 signpost not saying verisimilitude likes shitting-dick-nipples hentai, but I wouldn't judge!
20:29 signpost bring your kinks out into the light and be free
20:29 asciilifeform observe that not 1 reich crypto key of any consequence (e.g. intel's magick packet) has publicly leaked to date.
20:30 signpost maybe hunger loosens things up, but 100% hypothetical, and not top priority.
20:30 signpost plenty of infrastructure for the honest to build.
20:31 asciilifeform signpost: point being that all 'mega-leaks' to date are entirely consistent w/ 'hangout' pov
20:31 verisimilitude Not everything of worth is about this, asciilifeform.
20:32 asciilifeform verisimilitude: said somewhere that was ?
20:32 signpost granted. covid thing, for example, says to a certain demo that "patriots in the military are fighting the good fight"
20:32 asciilifeform gotta point out ftr, tho, that 100% of 'anon leaks' to date were unactionable horseshit
20:33 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086777 Sometimes the good thing can just be someone sharing something inconsequential he made.
20:33 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 16:09:01 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: show 1 of these 'good things' ?
20:33 asciilifeform verisimilitude: nobody's begrudging you yer lolcats
20:35 verisimilitude I'm not the one with a meme cat on his website.
20:35 verisimilitude It's a cool meme cat, but a meme cat all the same.
20:35 signpost hueee
20:35 asciilifeform verisimilitude: it's 1 of the moar famous memecats at that
20:37 * asciilifeform at one pt read (ru) anonpits, quit 'cold turkey' & never looked back
20:38 signpost vzhuk! << does this approximate the magic word's pronunciation?
20:40 asciilifeform vzhooh
20:41 PeterL sort of like swoosh?
20:41 asciilifeform aha
20:41 * signpost had been meaning to ask
20:41 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086749 << there's a depressing explanation for the lax attitude toward crypto (both money & messaging): powerful people who could use those things to topple the system benefit more from the current system
20:41 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 15:26:22 asciilifeform: signpost et al: worth noting precisely with what teeth that bite. 'bitcoin exists', pgp exists, and even warez still exists, reich has not been mega-successful in preventing free exchange of bits, or forcing people to sign strings they dun wanna sign. why, remains somewhat of mystery, but imho not unconnected w/ fact that reich functionaries hold btc and don't care to see it devalued
20:41 mangol iirc last year at least a couple of prominent people were whacked
20:43 asciilifeform mangol: the moar interesting aspect is that folx who nominally oppose reich regularly fall for its various honeypots
20:43 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-14 13:55:28 asciilifeform: btw recall the pompous 'busts' of derps who baked 'eevil seekrit turdroid pnojes for mafia' ?
20:44 asciilifeform which btw includes any and all 'bitcoin exchanges'
20:44 asciilifeform likewise, the 'prominent people' are 'prominent' strictly in that reich-controlled publications decree them 'prominent'
20:45 mangol that's the ideal outcome, isn't it? trap the self-styled rebels in state-backed controlled opposition
20:45 asciilifeform worx great historically
20:45 asciilifeform 'upload yer privkey to keybase today!' etc
20:46 mangol just like wage slavery is state-sanctioned self-actualization, without posing the danger (to the state) of self-actualization with perspective
20:47 mangol the best traps are always the ones that give people an illusion of agency without actual agency
20:47 mangol since people are different, gotta have a variety of traps with different aesthetics
20:48 asciilifeform mangol: imho the interesting thing is precisely how tediously similar to 1 another are the traps
20:48 asciilifeform all the variations on the theme of 'let this here Very Trusted 3rd party have yer privkeys' for instance
20:48 asciilifeform usually in conjunction with 'run this Very Secure cryptoturd on mswin'
20:49 signpost the slot's already there to receive command.
20:49 asciilifeform covers just about all of'em
20:50 asciilifeform see also thrd.
20:50 dulapbot Logged on 2020-06-24 12:55:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-06-24#1015278 << the key to this 'roman a clef' is quite simple. in usg there are two subgroups -- one is privy to the '90s change of strategy where 'instead of trying to ban pgp / 'make water not wet' -- we'll encourage proliferation of faux crypto and honeypot 'services' ' ; the other, not privy. the latter continue the clinton-era bloviations a la 'clipp
20:50 signpost the state's not protecting itself from thinking men. they're usually self-interested.
20:50 signpost it's making sure joe stacks crash their plane into the IRS office when it's mostly empty.
20:51 asciilifeform signpost: for the most part, the 'stacks' begin & end with 'hatespeech' on arsebook and duly picked up
20:51 asciilifeform as is the intent of the herders
20:51 * signpost doesn't begrudge herding these in the slightest.
20:52 mangol when said 'stacks' don't work for the same org as the people picking them up to begin with
20:52 * signpost emits a parser error
20:52 asciilifeform mangol: recent lulz illustrative
20:52 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-25 19:33:42 asciilifeform: is funny, how erry time they need to agitate for yr+, bus in over9000 morons of both hat colours into some shithole, and spend 1e8$ on provocateurs, to get 1-2 corpses
20:52 signpost mangol: joe stack died, so I doubt he worked for usg in that regard.
20:53 signpost but yeah, many are provocateurs, as in jan 6
20:53 asciilifeform ( see also e.g. )
20:53 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-22 13:16:22 asciilifeform: was domestic application of 'controlled chaos' lizard doctrine that worked a++ in afganistan, syria, etc. -- 'obsolete' young men, 'nothing to do', join mujahedeen/isis/$usg-muppet-org-of-the-day, put on shaheed belt, explode where instructed to by handler-provocateur.
20:53 dulapbot Logged on 2020-07-02 19:59:08 asciilifeform: shinohai: the morons' attempts at 'crypto' imho are quite reminiscent at '90s arab attempts to bake nuke (where they'd sell one another, and buy from usg provocateurs, 'mysterious artifacts' with cyrillic labels, + alchemical formulae to go with'em )
20:53 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-02 21:02:07 asciilifeform: still waiting for 'uprising' that isn't run by the usual mix of provocateurs and semiliterate roomtemp-iq waco fodders
21:03 mangol indeed, the lack of high-ranking defectors (e.g. military) is a bit puzzling given that the estabilshment is growing more incompetent by the week
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21:03 signpost into what, is the problem.
21:04 PeterL you expect them to jump from one failing state into another?
21:04 signpost the US military will exist long after a hypothetical fall of the USG.
21:04 mangol in some places they'd have a lot of support from the masses too, the memetic groundwork has been laid. asciilifeform, there's your 4 chan use case
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21:06 signpost can start going by A, take pictures on a white steed with US flag in hand.
21:07 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086680 << you're not a ``fediverse'' user ...are you?
21:07 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 14:34:41 mangol: both sides are wrong. clearly the correct term is "poast"
21:07 * signpost would rather infect .mil with the subversive idea of a free republic, have them question why the tooling from such beats the shit out of their plasticware.
21:08 signpost crtdaydreams: poast is a pretty bog standard IRC corruption of spelling.
↖
21:08 crtdaydreams signpost: herm. new to me, only place I've heard it used is the standard for pleroma instances.
21:08 crtdaydreams or was it mastodon?
21:08 crtdaydreams eh. anyways.
21:09 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086863 << familiar w/ the term 'sausage emigre' ? atm there aint a place 'with better sausage', and ergo 'nowhere to defect to'
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21:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 17:02:26 mangol: indeed, the lack of high-ranking defectors (e.g. military) is a bit puzzling given that the estabilshment is growing more incompetent by the week
21:10 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086524 << --==[ data hoarder lyf 8 point oh ]==--
21:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 09:51:16 mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086523 << if the internet splinters, it'll be even harder than now to find information, and esoteric info hardest of all
21:10 signpost less spam crtdaydreams
21:10 asciilifeform ^
21:10 * crtdaydreams did not mean to spam :(
21:11 * crtdaydreams will not do it again
21:14 asciilifeform re defectors, see also e.g.
21:14 dulapbot Logged on 2020-06-07 14:25:20 asciilifeform: ru storyteller v. pelevin had a scene where 'we had sovok, but to ours, people could bring bootleg jeans and music. and it was even possible to get out. now you have one in usa, but there is important difference : no one will bring bootleg jeans to it, and no one will get out, because it hasn't got an outside'
21:15 * signpost bbl
21:18 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086876 << i wouldn't expect them to defect to another country, but to try and reinstate a non-terminal gov't in their current one. not all high-ranking people have a volcano lair to fly to
21:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 17:08:35 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086863 << familiar w/ the term 'sausage emigre' ? atm there aint a place 'with better sausage', and ergo 'nowhere to defect to'
21:18 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086867 << 'support from mass' does precisely 0. even if you could get it, which you can't, cuz, see above, 'sausage'-seeking amoebas following the gradient.
21:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 17:04:03 mangol: in some places they'd have a lot of support from the masses too, the memetic groundwork has been laid. asciilifeform, there's your 4 chan use case
21:18 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 17:58:54 asciilifeform: imho there is no actual advantage to deliberately taking the position of amoeba, living 'on birds' rights' among people; only illusory 'advantages'. but it is not simple to convince noobs of this, typically they gotta see (or not) for themselves.
21:21 asciilifeform mangol: the current government serves the rulers just fine
21:21 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-14 14:13:44 asciilifeform: from the pov of the perps -- for whom 'function' is 'keep the yachts afloat' -- never been healthier
21:21 * asciilifeform must bbl
21:28 crtdaydreams re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
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21:29 crtdaydreams I don't see the necessity to obfuscate torrent traffic with flood-network
21:30 crtdaydreams If you are running perse; radio, you're going to want ~all~ the bandwith you can get.
21:33 crtdaydreams I suggest using at tracker over pest because you could design a tracker that certain files are available only to a selected participant on pest; i.e. the one with the PK to decrypt.
21:33 mats asciilifeform: some of those drops have discernible impacts, like the various icij leaks
21:34 crtdaydreams Pub vs Priv DHT availability.
21:35 mats revenue authorities have targeted relevant nationals for enforcement action, and presumably was also used to target ru oligarchs in recent weeks
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21:35 mats nsa appears to like fronting their leaks under the anon banner
~ 33 minutes ~
22:08 asciilifeform mats: these are precisely the reich hangouts asciilifeform was referring to
22:09 asciilifeform they aint leaks in the 'grassroots' sense normally propagandized
22:09 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086895 << have you considered actually reading the spec ??
22:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 17:27:27 crtdaydreams: re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
22:10 asciilifeform for fucks sake
22:23 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086901 << the ru oligarchs fwiw were creatures of the reich, whose purpose was to steal & exfiltrate as much as possible of what 80yrs of collective orcish sweat had built. and nao that the brakes were hit on this exfiltration, naturally, 'pig aint gonna get any fatter, time for the knife'
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22:23 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 17:34:22 mats: revenue authorities have targeted relevant nationals for enforcement action, and presumably was also used to target ru oligarchs in recent weeks
~ 27 minutes ~
22:51 mats there’s fed defectors
22:52 mats like that idiot who carefully drafted covid disinfo without letterhead, filled with redactions, spelling errors, posted here
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22:53 mats and the active duty dummies who showed up for jan6
22:55 mats well, one ad and four army reserve/ng, ad guy caught a charge
23:02 signpost !!gettrust crtdaydreams
23:02 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
23:02 signpost time to stop trying to satisfy your urges by making noise, and read *deeply* the pest spec, all of loper-os, and come back with questions or not at all.
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23:03 signpost *questions*, not proposals for the one-weird-trick-they-don't-want-you-to-know re: p2p
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