Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-12-27 | 2017-12-29 → ↓
00:48 mircea_popescu aha :D
~ 23 minutes ~
01:12 mircea_popescu in other rapetrucks, i watched die hard. the russians are germans back then ; the terrorists still terrorists. the "career woman" still very much homely gun moll, wink wink nudge nudge. the dumbass "technology" ie cameras on every wall more of a curio than anything, deemed eccentricly harmless (see also above discussion of parasitosis).
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01:12 mircea_popescu to quote tlp, "half of america said hell ya, let's kick some ass and the other half rolled its eyes and was totally like don't you guys know we suck now ?"
01:13 mircea_popescu yet by comparison to the femprop the pantsuits are pouring out this decade, brainless "action" movies of the 90s are grandiloquent cinematic accomplishments.
~ 6 hours 33 minutes ~
07:46 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> !~later tell BingoBoingo where was that hoster that'll host peculiarly small boxes , that you were using back in the day ? i have a buncha http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754247 that fit exactly those dimensions << I looked at "Mac Stadium" but ended up going with Joe's Datacenter before the payment portion of Joe's website went full NameCheap retard.
07:46 a111 Logged on 2017-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: they are widely sold as surplus today, about fiddybux ( naturally diskless )
07:48 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Perhaps you fill a 1U tray with them and pack it into your checked luggage? If you worry about their conenctivity it is very possible to negotiate them their own dedicated or asymmetrical line.
07:54 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> BigTexasBingo: ever seen this photo : https://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/0/6/6/5346660.jpg ? << Not until now
07:56 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too. << Aha, since the aggressing started and some trb nodes changed ver string my nodes have had an easier time staying at the tip
08:01 BingoBoingo So last night I returned from una cita con una chica to discover a concert on the roof of the hostel was winding down. While I rehydrated drinking copious agua buena other guests at the hostel consulted me for answers to "What's good in Montevideo"
~ 22 minutes ~
08:23 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i am looking to set up a handful of trb nodez 1) small, 'disposable' boxen 2) for fiatolade 3) with decent , i.e. at least 100mb symmetric ea. 4) NOT all in same cage
08:24 BingoBoingo Ah
08:25 asciilifeform i'ma certainly patronize castle BingoBoingostein tho
08:25 asciilifeform but that dun solve whole item.
08:26 BingoBoingo https://www.macstadium.com/colo/#dcselect << Was a finalist I considered $35/month for small machine
08:27 asciilifeform nuffin there re noncrapple tho
08:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759388 << see also lulthread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1703064
08:27 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 06:12 mircea_popescu: in other rapetrucks, i watched die hard. the russians are germans back then ; the terrorists still terrorists. the "career woman" still very much homely gun moll, wink wink nudge nudge. the dumbass "technology" ie cameras on every wall more of a curio than anything, deemed eccentricly harmless (see also above discussion of parasitosis).
08:27 a111 Logged on 2017-08-24 17:24 asciilifeform: e.g. film 'diehard' ended up translated by one 'genius' to title 'умри тяжело'
08:28 BingoBoingo Probably wouldn't hurt to ask or dress up non-crapple box in aluminum case of dead crapple for moar heatsink
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08:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758896 << i have this vague memory that both phf and trinque were originally introduced in this sense by ben_vulpes ; whereas you were introduced similarily by hanbot. by comparison the pantsuit "evidently correct & only method" of herdemocracy has produced a whole lot of indiancandies and other self-choice delusionists.
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08:28 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 00:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758743 << this historically worked CONSIDERABLY better than 'let's throw the reddit toilet into reverse gear and see what crawls out of the pipe'
08:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha!!
08:29 mircea_popescu so yes, the move to conscription is a matter of when, not of if.
08:30 mircea_popescu the drawback is that most nobles dun wanna upkeep their castles for some reason. i'm hoping it's mostly misunderstanding teh future in the benign sense of "really, didn't give this much thought"
08:31 asciilifeform no serfs, no castle, eh
08:32 mircea_popescu first the castle then the serfs!
08:32 mircea_popescu it's not a bit of fucking public works
08:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759406 << guaranteed no-go. it's rather like trying to sew a squirrel into a rat skin and expect it to live happily as rat.
08:33 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 13:28 BingoBoingo: Probably wouldn't hurt to ask or dress up non-crapple box in aluminum case of dead crapple for moar heatsink
08:34 asciilifeform ( ports are in all the wrong places, and no room for any cabling, ditto heat spreaders )
08:34 * BingoBoingo keeping quiet castle in #agriculturalsupremacy though meeting people and perhaps soon Serfing to fill
08:35 asciilifeform oh hey neato
08:35 mircea_popescu the sadness of agriculture being of course that old story of http://trilema.com/2013/the-corn-thing/
08:36 asciilifeform ^ aha i immediately thought of it
08:36 mircea_popescu now THAT'd be a golden nut to crack. though i have ~0 hope of it ever working.
08:36 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: well, many things depend on one's patience with die grinder. Slow sure, but most people may benefit from having a sort of meditative activity.
08:36 mircea_popescu agricultural supremacy ~= john deere (THAT is a place "self-driving" has utility btw) + monsanto genetic "engineering":
08:36 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: AHA, yes, the corn thing
08:36 asciilifeform for gedankenexperiment, mircea_popescu , what would 'cracked' look like ?
08:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform isn't it interesting how agricultural applicaiton ends up giving an anti-intellectual sheen to ANYTHING it touches.
08:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform a situation where it is -ev to chemicalize/engineer.
08:37 mircea_popescu ie, plants come alive at night and fuck your wife
08:37 asciilifeform they... do. simply takes a while.
08:37 asciilifeform it was always -ev, simply not on short enuff time scale.
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08:37 mircea_popescu female agriculture is a fine example of what cracked nut would be. try to make one out of rubber and "nlp", get what's coming to ye.
08:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this'd be the problem then.
08:38 asciilifeform petro supply falls ? as good as nukefest.
08:38 mircea_popescu nah, electric pathway is still above water.
08:38 asciilifeform whole thing is standing on cheap petro tho
08:38 shinohai basidiocarps sprout from floor and deliver sound rogering
08:38 asciilifeform for the chemicrud
08:38 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform isn't it interesting how agricultural applicaiton ends up giving an anti-intellectual sheen to ANYTHING it touches. << anti-intellectual sheen is part of the appeal of having named castle thusly, scares those who need it.
08:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you drastically underestimate how cheap electricity actually is.
08:39 asciilifeform not so cheap that anybody's fischer-tropsching his way into cornism
08:39 mircea_popescu this is a fashion.
08:39 mircea_popescu it's like saying "the reason 1990s girls are emo is that 1950 style vinly and kitchen aprons are expensive"
08:39 BingoBoingo Kind of how I was telling other people at hostel that when you make eye contact with everyone you come across on your walk, you tend not to get acosted
08:39 mircea_popescu no they aren't lmao. the "consensus" of herdemocracy is just not to produce it.
08:40 asciilifeform troo: i have nfi what kw-hour would cost in e.g. a china that goes full-bore su-style fission buildout
08:40 mircea_popescu soviet-style ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757906 ) nuke plant development would result in cost per elec-watt being half of cost per oil-watt within generation.
08:40 a111 Logged on 2017-12-24 16:12 asciilifeform: then next wk 'tell us who is trying to be philosophical, and getting in the way...'
08:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha!
08:40 asciilifeform prolly yea
08:41 mircea_popescu the thing with these is they self-support. WAY the fuck more expensive to have 1st nuke power plant than to add the 1001th to a 1000 fleet.
08:41 * BingoBoingo described US agriculture to the Brasileros. "In Estados Unidos, corn is grown and converted to sugar. Anything else costs too much to do. All of the livestock subsist on fermented corn chaff."
08:41 asciilifeform iirc good chunk of eastern europistan to this day running on golden age reactors
08:41 mircea_popescu yuppers.
08:41 mircea_popescu romania is basically hydro+nuclear.
08:42 mircea_popescu and nobody wants to look at why both a) romania became industrial power and b) romania was the only above-water state during crisis.
08:42 asciilifeform long in the tooth, and with american ersatz fuel by ge co. -- but running.
08:42 mircea_popescu imbecile austrians, that DID convince the world hitler was german and mozart austrian, NEVERTHELESS DID NOT!!!! figure out why they come to bucharest to seek money in 2007.
08:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ro makes its own fuel, wut.
08:43 mircea_popescu there's a nuclear fuel factory and everything.
08:43 asciilifeform neato.
08:43 mircea_popescu !~google fabrica de combustibil nuclear pitesti
08:43 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: FCN Pitesti - Nuclearelectrica: <http://www.nuclearelectrica.ro/fcn/en/>; Combustibil nuclear - Nuclearelectrica: <http://www.nuclearelectrica.ro/despre-noi/zona-tehnica/fcn-pitesti/>; fcn pitesti - Nuclearelectrica: <http://www.nuclearelectrica.ro/fcn/en/contact/>
08:43 asciilifeform i was thinking of bulgaria specifically.
08:44 mircea_popescu ah. bulgaria is...
08:44 mircea_popescu well, you know that time the caer came up with idea of making eastern europe agricultural zone, and ceausescu threatened to quit the warsaw pact ?
08:44 asciilifeform !~google bulgaria fuel rods
08:44 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bulgaria opens dry spent nuclear fuel depot - Reuters: <http://www.reuters.com/article/bulgaria-nuclear-waste-idAFLDE74A13D20110512>; Will The Russians Become Fuel Supplier To U.S. Nuclear Power ...: <https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/05/31/will-the-russians-become-fuel-supplier-to-u-s-nuclear-power-plants/>; Cracks found in protective casings at Bulgaria nuclear plant - Phys.org: (1 more message)
08:44 mircea_popescu bulgarians were enthusiastic over the idea.
08:45 asciilifeform bulgaria, land of tomato, aha.
08:45 mircea_popescu pickled gerkins really, but yes.
08:45 asciilifeform tomato for petrol. but today imports both from eu. because spread legs for nato.
08:45 mircea_popescu anyway, 10-20k rods a year. this is not a lot objectively, but it keeps the item going
08:46 mircea_popescu (they're about 10TJ for lifetime, so whole factory makes say petaJ/year)
08:47 asciilifeform gotta wonder why no breeder reactor in ro
08:47 mircea_popescu um. who says no ?
08:47 asciilifeform is there ? su afaik did not build any
08:48 mircea_popescu (petaJ ~= 1.5 mn BOE, roughly speaking.)
08:48 mircea_popescu i have nfi.
08:48 asciilifeform 'breeders' were a major thrust in pre-pantsuit usa, where abundant thorium
08:49 asciilifeform (e.g. new york stands on enormous thorium vein)
08:49 mircea_popescu myeah.
08:49 mircea_popescu the thing with these is they don't have to be big
08:49 BingoBoingo In other news, on January 5th or 8th tentatively penciling in an appointment with the data center to hammer out more details, pricing information, etc. By that point there should be a business to do contract signing even if banking continues to be a challenge.
08:49 mircea_popescu so saying "no" is tall ortder, da fuck anyone knows.
08:50 asciilifeform funnily enuff pre-zombiefication PG mentioned that his father had come to usa from britain to build breeder-reactors. and then driven into sad-retirement when pantsuitisml
08:50 asciilifeform *pantsuitism
08:51 mircea_popescu anyway, ro maintains very lively solid state physics programme at universities (mostly, buchjarest/magurele), i would not be surprised if they had one on the grounds.
08:52 asciilifeform it isn't even 'high tech'n, pretty clear how it works if you look at mendeleev table
08:52 asciilifeform ( where is thorium , consider )
08:52 mircea_popescu this is why i say.
08:52 mircea_popescu obvious teaching tool etc.
08:53 asciilifeform hey betcha somebody in ro even knows about the beta thing.
08:54 asciilifeform some d00d with long, white beard.
08:54 mircea_popescu if /me ran the whole thing, item'd be used for all it's worth (less importantly, give promising kids a chance to learn what critical safety is ; more importantly, give promising kids chance to exclude themselves on grounds of can not keep a secret. "big hush" the secret thorium reactor would be lynchpin of the whole thing)
08:54 shinohai i still wanna know why Romania let Chad get away with stealing their flag.
08:54 mircea_popescu it's so tantalizingly perfect it'd be hard to believe not used while not believing people involved are all rank idiots.
08:56 asciilifeform aha!
08:56 mircea_popescu shinohai retarded brits maneuvering themselves into trying to matter. when hatman visited queen, some local fuckwits organised a buncha streetwalkers to pretend like they represent "the gypsy community" and "independently want to be called romania from now on". because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739911 wasn't invented by ustards, they just copied.
08:56 a111 Logged on 2017-11-16 20:41 mircea_popescu: there's a great southpark episode explaining how this false dychotomy is intended to work in practice (i'm a bit couintry & im a bit rock and roll item)
08:56 mircea_popescu "wut is hatman gonna do, not go into queen carriage???"
08:56 mircea_popescu aanyways.
08:57 asciilifeform sumbody oughta set up a parallel usg out of crackheads in bmore
08:57 mircea_popescu it's coming.
08:57 asciilifeform send to london!
08:57 asciilifeform 'gov in exile' (tm)(r)
08:57 mircea_popescu because obviously, why the hell not.
08:57 shinohai aha praise be to the logs, and a South Park episode to boot!
08:57 mircea_popescu eh, london. fuck london, nobody is ever going there again.
08:58 mircea_popescu place is done.
08:58 asciilifeform it's just this place, where they keep 'governments in exile', lel
08:58 mircea_popescu they. no moar theys.
08:58 asciilifeform dun have to be in old london. can put in orbit, like in pelevin's 'snuff'
08:59 mircea_popescu tehran.
08:59 asciilifeform eh who keeps idjits-in-exile other than the 'they' for anyhing.
08:59 mircea_popescu we.
08:59 mircea_popescu why the hell not.
09:04 mircea_popescu !~calc log(2^2048)^6/log(2^14)^6
09:04 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: log(2^2048)^6/log(2^14)^6
09:04 mircea_popescu !~calc log(2**2048)**6/log(2**14)**6
09:04 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: log(2**2048)**6/log(2**14)**6
09:04 mircea_popescu !~calc log(2)
09:04 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: log(2) = 0.30102999566398114
09:05 mircea_popescu what the everloving
09:05 mircea_popescu !~calc log(2**2048)
09:05 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: log(2**2048)
09:05 mircea_popescu !~calc 2**2048
09:05 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: 2**2048
09:05 mircea_popescu !~calc 2^4
09:05 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 2^4 = 16
09:06 shinohai This cac really blows dunnit
09:06 mircea_popescu nuts.
09:06 shinohai *calc
09:06 mircea_popescu anyway, for the record : the ratio is ~146.
09:06 mircea_popescu ie, if http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753823 takes one week to compute, a full rsa sized item would take about a year.
09:06 a111 Logged on 2017-12-18 23:19 asciilifeform: btw that french aks is geological. n==11701 has been running for 10+ minutes, and is on ~9600; author's code indicates that answer appears at iteration 1000000007. that'd be 723 days on this box.
09:07 mircea_popescu *two weeks* i mean.
09:08 mircea_popescu if it takes 723 days, the item would STILL complete within the lifetime of the republic, which is to say roughly speaking 723 × 146 × 2 / 365 = 578.4 years.
09:08 mircea_popescu so it is not THAT useless.
09:08 mircea_popescu especially if esthlos comes up with some fast implementation
09:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ~iron~ aks may be worth something.
09:12 mircea_popescu ikr ?
09:12 asciilifeform as in, ffa-width cpu.
09:12 mircea_popescu whole point of exercise was, slow, yes, but actually not slow enough to discard entirely out of hand
09:12 asciilifeform but nothing short of that.
09:12 asciilifeform dedicated primality tester ic would rock.
09:13 mircea_popescu the major advantage of ever seeing a log in the big O is that well... log promises very good returns at end tail!
09:13 mircea_popescu one of my favourite sights, i confess
09:13 mircea_popescu when a complexity calculation returns a result in logs.
09:14 mircea_popescu i know of no better example of a candidate miracle.
09:14 asciilifeform e.g. karatsuba
09:14 asciilifeform ( imho 1 of the great finds of that century, no less )
09:16 mircea_popescu yup
09:17 mircea_popescu there's outright cleverness, like that guy's method to compute inside pi ; and then there's just sheer good fucking fortune, like karatsuba.
09:18 asciilifeform not clear why one 'cleverness' but other, 'fortune', could just as easily say the reverse
09:20 mircea_popescu nah. cleverness in humans is simply equivalent of what drunks call "a moment of lucidity", ie, stopped being indescribably fucking stupid for one god damned moment.
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09:21 mircea_popescu it's quite fucking obvious that you don't need to computhe the 5th decimal of pi to compute the billionth, if you just put down the bottle for one moment.
09:21 mircea_popescu admittedly putting down bottle hard to do, all this self-determination and choice-having and gotta watch teh tv gets in the way. but anwyay.
09:23 BingoBoingo Eh, if one bottles right eventually surrender comes and choice having space narrows
09:23 asciilifeform that or cirrhosis
09:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno if i did this before, but let's put it in the logs at the risk of repeating self.
09:25 mircea_popescu there's an imbecile's view of "intelligent design" being floated about (mostly by people who are looking for a strawman, and reconstructed by them for this purpose). here's the correct version :
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09:25 asciilifeform let's. ( i'ma come to tea, brb )
09:26 mircea_popescu human civilisation is entirely dependent on iron being present within its early environment. while it's true that iron is overwhelmingly abundant on earth, making up as it does 1/3 of it by mass, it is nevertheless also heavy enough to not be abundant on the surface. it is abundant in the core only. the surface iron comes from ancient collision with tinier earths that, like this one, had an iron-ish core, which core then ends
09:26 mircea_popescu up splashed all over this one's surface.
09:26 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Cirrhosis is usually has acute and reversible alcoholic hepatits as a herald well in advance of cirrhosis, if not problem space still narrows
09:27 mircea_popescu now, those peoples that did have iron in the environment, flourished. those that did not, became the fuckign tupi, stuck forever in stone age.
09:27 mircea_popescu there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
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09:27 BingoBoingo Eh, iron core's just global wanking conspiracy shit. Uranium core or bust!
09:27 mircea_popescu this is not a singular example, it is a pattern, and a pattern that VERY insistently repeats.
09:28 mircea_popescu for instance : there is NO REASON why general relativity should be tractable with (minor) extensions on infinitesimal calculus. in other words : there is NO REASON the gap between newton and einstein be narrow enough to be closed by a guy like einstein
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09:29 mircea_popescu if you look at the history of the human thought, a certain sense of "stairwell" does become apparent -- they did x which suddenly made y feasible and guess what ? sooner or later (usually, later : see gunpowder steam engine and all the numerous examples we keep rehashing in logs) they'd y!
09:29 mircea_popescu now, from a strict probabilistic perspective, there's nothing evidently requiring ALL the god damned stairs to be one foot tall at the most. yet, they all are.
09:30 mircea_popescu evidently this is a matter of selected group, humanity only ever took thesteps it could take, so its whole stairwell will be bound by what a biosack shaped like human could overstep
09:30 mircea_popescu NEVERTHELESS!!! there are MANY!!! steps in this ladder, that all occured.
09:30 mircea_popescu at no prior point was there a case when... no step available, shortest one is eight billion light years tall and fuck you.
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09:31 mircea_popescu this may be naturally occuring, of course. but if you choose to believe it's rather deliberately set-up, there's little in either res divinae or lit hum to impugn you with.
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09:31 mircea_popescu (lit hum includes all sciences from agriculture to string theory + philosophy, for the record)
09:37 mircea_popescu (and evidently, if this is not evident, the argument is not limited to culture ; theory of evolution proposes a succession of steps to arrive to humanoid, that all similarily also happened. wel...)
09:44 mircea_popescu and since i mentioned that : religion simply means acknowledgement of one's betters. it's all it is, worthip of the superior.
09:44 mircea_popescu that's what "caesar was proclaimed god" means, to the roman mind.
09:45 mircea_popescu the necessary correlate of any functional republic, res divinae, the two together forming... a religion.
09:45 mircea_popescu which is WHY i kept chuckling at inept illiterate imbeciles herp-derping about "oh, a cult".
09:45 mircea_popescu turns out... it fucking helps having the letters, at the very least if you are intent on interacting with one who does.
09:46 mircea_popescu but aaanyways.
~ 16 minutes ~
10:02 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759571 << pretty wide gap, and was closed by buncha folx, see below,
10:02 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 14:28 mircea_popescu: for instance : there is NO REASON why general relativity should be tractable with (minor) extensions on infinitesimal calculus. in other words : there is NO REASON the gap between newton and einstein be narrow enough to be closed by a guy like einstein
10:02 mircea_popescu yes, but wide in a certain limited sense.
10:02 asciilifeform einstein really gavinized minkowski and lorentz
10:03 mircea_popescu sort-of akin to running mt_rand on (0, infinity) and expecting results to fit a register.
10:03 mircea_popescu however wide that register may be...
10:03 asciilifeform this however is not the problem
10:03 asciilifeform problem is that the stairwell pov presupposes its conclusion. 'it happened, thereby it was the next step.' exactly 'newton sat down to discover'(tm)(r)
10:03 asciilifeform phakt : plenty of 'next steps' that apparently too tall. e.g. roomtemp supercon.
10:03 mircea_popescu (i deliberately said "a guy like einstein" to avoid the history discussion)
10:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but read on.
10:04 asciilifeform or for that matter, usable maxwell. ( modern electronic design uses a narrowly restricted, i.e. sorta-fits-in-head special form of maxwell )
10:04 asciilifeform or i could go on.
10:05 asciilifeform and there's a reason we're talking over waveguide and not, say, entangletron
10:05 asciilifeform or, or.
10:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but read on!!11
10:05 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759576 << steps that are taller than the tallest man, look like walls, not steps
10:05 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 14:30 mircea_popescu: at no prior point was there a case when... no step available, shortest one is eight billion light years tall and fuck you.
10:06 mircea_popescu sure.
10:07 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759577 << if beelzebub made the levels for us to walk, he must be quite disappointed at the '% secrets' (think to 'doom'/'doom2' level endings, lol)
10:07 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 14:31 mircea_popescu: this may be naturally occuring, of course. but if you choose to believe it's rather deliberately set-up, there's little in either res divinae or lit hum to impugn you with.
10:07 mircea_popescu aha!
10:07 asciilifeform plenty of what i suspect 'kindergarten-level' (in hindsight, like karatsuba) -- unsolved.
10:07 mircea_popescu he's stuck putting in there material we only reliably get log(n) of
10:07 mircea_popescu which is funny because foretold -- see euler's count of prime numbers.
10:08 asciilifeform 'motherfuckers, i gave then such particle-like electrons, and they STILL dun have roomtemp supercon...'
10:08 mircea_popescu "for them to find four i gotta put in ten, and it gets worse as you go further"
10:09 mircea_popescu turns out that the first and perhaps only possible result of natural philosophy is to explain why divine anger is necessary and justified.
10:09 mircea_popescu "what if YOU had to make ten for every four ?"
10:10 asciilifeform divine anger was always the part that made sense to everybody. ( at least everybody other than the poor benighted http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-08#1748753 folx . )
10:10 a111 Logged on 2017-12-08 15:02 asciilifeform: the 'good climate makes folx lazy and slowly climbing 'back up to trees' ' item is an old saw, but i'm not aware of any major hole in the theory
10:10 asciilifeform witness the gods pictured by tropical fuckwits
10:11 asciilifeform ( though even there, in the slightly less 'female' folx, they had angry godz )
10:11 mircea_popescu aha
10:12 * mircea_popescu sings, "you would be angry too... if it happened... tooo yoooou"
10:13 mircea_popescu (as to domus and personal divinity -- slavegirls regularily apologize for "not having managed more". because it's true, the fundamental with a view to only interaction with the superior is built out of the vague regret of one's own insufficiency. da fuck else is there.)
10:13 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759568 << speaking of this: nobody has anyfi re what earthling history could have looked like if... iridium, say, had been similarly available
10:13 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
10:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform or BingoBoingo 's uranium. three heads, etcetera.
10:13 asciilifeform possibly proverbian alphacentaurian would spit, 'see, THIS is what happens when no surface iridium! they did not have the good fortune to meet the proper meteorites...'
10:14 asciilifeform *proverbial
10:14 asciilifeform uranium is actually quite common on planet3.
10:14 mircea_popescu (for the astrophysics noobs : material composition of any corner of space is determined by supernova/plain star proportion, which as best anyone can determine is the only true random variable in nature)
10:14 asciilifeform even on surface. ( that very same yellow sand in ro, from earlier threads. )
10:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, and look at ro! lol.
10:15 mircea_popescu (reason earth is fulla iron is that gold needs a discretely different star to produce ; yes there's a continuous mass consideration involoved, but the results -- discretized)
~ 16 minutes ~
10:32 BingoBoingo Ah, nuclear chemistry. Where integers make all the difference.
10:32 mircea_popescu anyway, for they clamoring for references -- the complete works of varro (such as they remain) are most instructive here.
10:33 mircea_popescu perfectly respectable anthropologist to this very day, in preference of most anyone ever born in an english speaking household, and certainly anyone born in the colonies.
10:34 asciilifeform iirc most of varro evaporated
10:34 mircea_popescu it did
10:34 asciilifeform suxx.
10:34 mircea_popescu god did not promise you get to keep all your napkins.
10:34 asciilifeform or any
10:35 mircea_popescu anyway, a lot of it is guessable on the basis of, mostly stoic re-write.
10:35 mircea_popescu the poets/philosophers/civil servants tripartite discussion of divinity most indicative.
10:36 mircea_popescu so in the same sense the french/swiss folk could almost-read unpublished newton on the basis of their own understanding of calculus...
10:37 asciilifeform that's sorta what made the 'natural philosophy' thing take off -- the realization that 'it's still there', whether or not newton bothers to publish
10:37 mircea_popescu aha
10:39 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
10:40 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14328.86, vol: 18062.50528010 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14130.0, vol: 79070.56865041 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14352.1, vol: 4760.58484451 | Volume-weighted last average: 14175.6283124
10:41 asciilifeform !!key spyked
10:41 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc
10:43 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to snarf : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch.spyked.sig
10:43 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
10:43 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18457 << congrats to spyked , graduate of ffa ch1.
~ 20 minutes ~
11:04 * mircea_popescu savagely fucked sleeping girl ; after which, taking advantage of well known property of dreams to be recountable if dreamer suddenly awakened, asked what she had been dreaming of.
11:04 mircea_popescu "i dunno... stupid...dating show...something."
11:04 mircea_popescu i advised her to be careful what she dreams of in the future.
11:04 asciilifeform but meanwhile, in historic loose ends , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1758001 << how to square this with >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637609 ( summary : classical bitcoin permits ~modification of old blocks~ via the idjit 'tx replace' mechanism. even though -- as i understand -- it'd split the network if actually ever deployed. which it was not, not even in prb. but theoretically still permitted by the protocol. )
11:04 a111 Logged on 2017-12-24 17:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, v-tronization of blockchain is unavoidable.
11:04 a111 Logged on 2017-04-05 13:43 mircea_popescu: understand something about "declarations" in this vein : they themselves are an attack, if you can't universally enforce them. the us collapsed out of an attempt to declare that "they, not us, are the bad guys" without the actual strength to enforce this ; so did the soviet union, and so does every inept mother who tries to tell her kid what to do out of line.
11:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform republic has strength to enforce dunnit ?
↖
11:06 asciilifeform driving uppity miners into bankruptcy, abatement of gavins, etc. is thus far mircea_popescu's dept.
11:06 asciilifeform afaik nobody else has got with-what.
11:06 mircea_popescu but the discussion here is merely "how to enforce a correct chain of patches"
11:06 asciilifeform patches yes. i was speaking of the blockchain-vchain parallel.
11:07 mircea_popescu it mearly meant this much, that it'd be a chain of patches.
11:07 mircea_popescu no moar.
11:07 asciilifeform which has currently a birth defect hole in it, the classical blockchain is not properly speaking immutable.
11:07 mircea_popescu software'd better not be immutable either, lest we're stuck with c.
11:07 asciilifeform history had better be immutable. lest we get stuck with having to undo c again and again forever.
11:08 mircea_popescu nature comes with a key shaped like that hole, it is called "apostasy is its own punishment".
11:08 asciilifeform it does. problem is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759431 .
11:08 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 13:37 asciilifeform: it was always -ev, simply not on short enuff time scale.
11:08 asciilifeform recall the cousin-fucking thread.
11:08 mircea_popescu im not sure this is a problem. people use crapple os, an unsupported chain off the main v trunk as it is.
11:09 mircea_popescu there is no difference between a patch unsigned and another patch unsigned, much like there's no difference between a nobody "gerald davis" and the exact same nobody "gerard david"
11:10 mircea_popescu you know how many alt-mps the empire has summoned up as if it does something ?
11:10 asciilifeform 'Федот, да не тот' (tm)(r)(aphorism)
11:11 mircea_popescu amusingly, da ne tot in romanian means "give us everything"
11:11 asciilifeform aha.
11:11 asciilifeform but classic 'false cognate' (lol, ~entire sentence made of'em)
11:11 asciilifeform this oughta be a genre...
11:11 mircea_popescu yeah, but not in english
11:12 asciilifeform uncle al had a german/english one
11:12 asciilifeform but it escapes me
11:12 asciilifeform ( i remember 1 key word, 'also' )
11:13 mircea_popescu there's the buffalo item recently in trilema...
11:13 asciilifeform afaik german is the only living lang close-enuff to stand a chance of working like this with eng
11:14 mircea_popescu yea
11:18 BingoBoingo The terror in people's eyes here when they talk of their trouble with "phrasal verbs"
11:20 BingoBoingo It is like when I get surprised with yet another species of past tense
11:20 mircea_popescu "tense" being nonsense in the first place. time + aspect, learn grammar properly if at all.
11:30 deedbot http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/28/three-week-in-montevideo-superpowers-and-handicaps-of-the-extranjero-engaged-in-long-term-hostel-living/ << Bingo Blog - Three Week In Montevideo: Superpowers and Handicaps of The Extranjero Engaged in Long Term Hostel Living
11:31 BingoBoingo Pls to point out typos por favor
11:31 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it piqued by the >> is piqued ?
11:32 BingoBoingo gracias asciilifeform
11:32 asciilifeform mised gender crowd >> mixed ?
11:32 asciilifeform disabiguate >> disambiguate ?
11:32 asciilifeform comb the thing yerself BingoBoingo , this one was typed on ipad or wat.
11:33 asciilifeform or aspell -a etc.
11:34 asciilifeform Yo se yo puedo tener hambre >> yo se que yo pudo....
11:34 asciilifeform ward of delusions >> off ?
11:34 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Typed on exhausted brain. Breaking down the language barrier, exhausting.
11:34 BingoBoingo Brb, spellcheck
11:34 asciilifeform i'ma relent nao, srsly
11:35 asciilifeform *puedo
11:40 BingoBoingo updated post spell check
11:50 ben_vulpes holy log already
11:53 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759407 << phf pasted me some emacs erc (irc client) auth scriptage way back in the gribble days which got him a rating, and trinque and i'd been drinking together in meatland, and hanging in previously a mentioned pantsuit hellhole irc channel and ricocheted off #b-a a few times (at my insistence iirc) before it stuck
11:53 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 13:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758896 << i have this vague memory that both phf and trinque were originally introduced in this sense by ben_vulpes ; whereas you were introduced similarily by hanbot. by comparison the pantsuit "evidently correct & only method" of herdemocracy has produced a whole lot of indiancandies and other self-choice delusionists.
11:54 asciilifeform ben_vulpes was here before asciilifeform , i think, and in the era prior to proper logging, so i have nfi where he came from
11:54 ben_vulpes nah, kakologs were in place before i showed up
11:54 asciilifeform ah hm.
11:55 asciilifeform !#born ben_vulpes
11:55 asciilifeform ^ phf et al : pheature req ?
11:56 phf it was literally the case of "milord, i made this basket from only finest of twigs, for your misses. ... bless you, milord"
↖
11:56 asciilifeform lol
11:56 ben_vulpes lol i stuck my head into bitcointalk.org for all of ten minutes before i found hanbot's legendary piece and jumped to #b-a
11:57 * asciilifeform possibly was the only 1 who skipped tardstalk entirely
11:57 phf asciilifeform: no, i ultimately came here by way of loper-os
11:57 asciilifeform ah hm
11:58 asciilifeform afaik phf is currently the all-star champ from that group
11:58 asciilifeform the rest, variously, went mad
↖
11:58 asciilifeform ( or simply failed to reach takeoff velocity )
11:59 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Which legendary piece of hanbot's? There were many.
12:00 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: you know i just went looking for a "best of MPOE-PR" and didn't find one
12:00 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: there's a mirror of the collection on mircea_popescu's www
12:00 asciilifeform lessee if he digs up the link when he wakes up
12:02 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/
12:02 asciilifeform ^ding^
12:08 phf so it looks like i started reading loper-os in 2008 or so
12:10 * asciilifeform meanwhile was watching zoolag sync, 'hmm 10min from nao' turned into hour+, and still 10blox behind. culprit seems to be a combo of 'everybody else is lagging' and 'flooded with mempool crud, and as result , not spending enuff time disconnecting unproductives and pushgetblocks()ing with novel peers'
12:13 BingoBoingo brb, me voy a immersion
12:14 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> !#born ben_vulpes << This would understate his age because, nick change
12:15 asciilifeform fine, so #!born benkey
↖
12:15 BingoBoingo Similar for undata/trinque
12:15 asciilifeform benkay
12:15 asciilifeform alert reader (tm)(r) oughta know.
12:15 BingoBoingo OMG I'll stop transmitting my contagious typos
12:15 BingoBoingo me voy ahora para immerse
12:15 phf !#vulpes
12:15 a111 to fix the UNENDING STREAM of precious bull run
12:15 asciilifeform lol
12:21 ben_vulpes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.msg1336919#msg1336919 << ere it is
12:21 asciilifeform oh hah i thought that www croaked long ago
12:22 ben_vulpes nah, couldn't possibly cost more to run than it enables people to scam
12:25 * asciilifeform currently puzzling over 'motherfuckers, e.g. deedbot is 501444-high, why is it physically possible for zoolag to have open connection to it and yet sit at 501436 for 20+ min'
12:26 ben_vulpes i imagine it's in your addnode set?
12:26 asciilifeform that does 0
12:26 asciilifeform remember.
12:26 ben_vulpes well at boot you pushgetblocks to everyone you connect to
12:27 asciilifeform i run with aggression ( from this point on i will run NO nodes without aggression ) so boot time is irrelevant
12:27 phf !#born benkey
12:28 ben_vulpes processmessage, right right
12:28 asciilifeform phf: benkay
12:28 phf !#born benkay
12:28 a111 2013-02-10 <benkay> i'm waiting for the developing world to figure it out
12:28 mod6 im running with alf's aggression now too.
12:28 asciilifeform phf: neato!!
12:28 asciilifeform !#born asciilifeform
12:28 a111 2013-02-02 <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: working on it
12:28 phf i think that maybe it should also return a link to original, or maybe post more than one line
12:28 asciilifeform a yes
12:29 asciilifeform link .
12:29 phf !#born phf
12:29 a111 2014-03-20 <phf> not quite
12:29 mod6 im at ~500351 -- getting close to full-sync. hoping to get it there so can have mine on the republican list. will let you know how it goes with 'aggression'
12:30 mod6 !#born mod6
12:30 a111 2012-08-17 <mod6> hai
12:30 mod6 heheh
12:30 asciilifeform mod6: when i think about shitoshi's idiocy that 'aggression' replaces, i froth with rage. the sheer stink of winblowzism, 'let's all run nodes for 2h a day after booting winblowz to play whorecraft-III, boot time is sooospeshul'
12:31 * asciilifeform feels quite like fool for not having patched it in first opening salvo after genesis
12:32 asciilifeform aaaand...
12:32 asciilifeform ACHTUNG, PANZERS! zoolag -- seems to be at tip of the chain.
12:32 mod6 ah, cool.
12:32 asciilifeform mod6 plox to re-add zoolag to trb roster.
12:33 asciilifeform trinque , mircea_popescu , et al ^^
12:33 mod6 Sure, what's the IP nowadays?
12:33 asciilifeform same as previously
12:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694288
12:33 a111 Logged on 2017-08-05 21:11 asciilifeform: zoolag live as of now at ye olde 108.31.170.49 .
12:35 mod6 Ah, cheers.
12:35 ben_vulpes http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1317 << man...
12:36 asciilifeform the bulldog-rhinoceros hybrid of having both pushes and pulls, is quite nonsensical
12:37 asciilifeform pushing dun do much for a trb node, who needs at any given time THAT ONE SPECIFIC NEXT block
↖
12:37 asciilifeform ( any other, is either old, or an orphan )
12:37 asciilifeform 99.99999%+ of what gets 'pushed' to a trb node, is thrown straight into the rubbish
12:37 asciilifeform ( incl. tx )
12:38 asciilifeform cuz 'no se fia'
12:38 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-25#1490595 )
12:38 a111 Logged on 2016-06-25 23:48 a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:34 deedbot: [Trilema] No Se Fia - http://trilema.com/2016/no-se-fia/
↖
12:41 asciilifeform in mostly but not wholly-unrelated noose, asciilifeform searched the market for little lcd thing one could plug into usb jack, to have trbtron display height at all times while it sits on the shelf. but TO THIS DAY none exist that cost less than THE FUCKING MACHINE lol
12:41 asciilifeform and not because display expensive -- i have e.g. chinese usb 'watt meter' dongle with display, that cost iirc 3bux
12:41 asciilifeform simply because apparently 'no demand'
12:41 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/12/28/the-little-elf-that-saved-christmas/ << Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The little Elf that saved Christmas.
12:42 asciilifeform ^ next: the little pe that saved christmas
12:42 asciilifeform ( and was it a 32-bit or 64- elf... )
12:43 asciilifeform 'The Apple TV was connected to a Bose CineMate soundbar via Optical Audio connection but the Bose system was in indeterminable working condition. For reasons beyond the pale of explanation or sanity, the Bose system didn’t have any physical buttons on it. Not for power, not for volume, not for anything.' << lol!!
12:43 asciilifeform 'When AirPlaying from each of them, however, Netflix would throw “Error 30103″ every goddam time' << ahahaha
12:43 asciilifeform poor pete_dushenski
12:44 shinohai heh https://1209k.com/bp/
12:45 asciilifeform wassat
↖
12:45 shinohai a prb chain paradise!
12:45 asciilifeform snoar
12:45 shinohai saves me from having to run the trash myself, im poor!
12:48 asciilifeform saves how ?
12:49 shinohai if i am curious to know what height the btrash is at, etc
12:49 asciilifeform no shortage of www frontends for those iirc
12:49 shinohai well certainly not
12:52 asciilifeform meanwhile zoolag, a machine the size of a man's fist, not only has 0 problem keeping up with tip of spear, but slightly pacing ahead of, e.g., bci & co
12:53 asciilifeform ( however, possibly it is , to be fair, on an uncharacteristically decent, for plebelands, pipe . )
12:57 mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << updated with zoolag
12:57 asciilifeform ty mod6 !
12:57 mod6 np
13:04 phf asciilifeform: zoolag running with your new patches?
13:04 asciilifeform aha
13:04 asciilifeform well just that 1
13:05 asciilifeform born from classical 'makefiles' (via mod6)
13:05 asciilifeform see also phf's chart!
13:07 phf !#born phf
13:07 a111 Logged on 2014-03-20 22:39 phf: not quite
13:07 phf !#born phf
13:07 a111 2014-03-20 <phf> not quite
13:08 asciilifeform canhaz links?
13:17 phf lesse
13:17 phf !#born phf
13:17 a111 2014-03-20 <phf> not quite
13:17 a111 http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-20#570859
13:17 asciilifeform whynot on same line, like log refs
13:17 asciilifeform keep the 1:1 eaten:shat rule for bots
↖
13:18 phf i think deedbot spits two entries sometimes with the wallet functionality
13:18 asciilifeform troo
13:18 asciilifeform how about, e.g.: 'http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-20#570859 : Logged on: 2014-03-20 <phf> not quite'
13:18 a111 Logged on 2014-03-20 22:39 phf: not quite
13:18 phf yeah
13:19 phf but the main reason is that i realized that cl-irc probably doesn't properly split lines, which needs to be solved
13:20 phf which i think is a problem in quoter, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-25#1758552
13:20 a111 Logged on 2017-12-25 19:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, for the record and in case it isn't entirely self-evident on the basis of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-25#1758486 : whenever some self-proclaimed "sovereign" of the fiat sort tries to say "hey, we have a law", the correct response is to a) point out to that self-proclaimed faux sovereign that there exist other just as valid because just as self-proclaimed faux sovereigns (the eu, russia, china, whatever, bucnha them
13:20 phf missing "atever, bucnha them"
13:21 phf but i'm not sure that i want it to spit that extra bit, even though it's missing, hmm...
13:22 phf aaaand since i don't want to think about any of this shit right now, you get a multiline born until i get to it :>
13:25 asciilifeform still quiteuseful.
13:30 ben_vulpes "Few things here appear to be more rare or valuable than persons capable and willing to deploy humiliation, particularly the necessary educational sort." << word
13:30 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: "gansta roll"
~ 35 minutes ~
14:06 phf !!key spyked
14:06 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc
14:08 phf asciilifeform: sigs up
14:09 asciilifeform phf: ty!
~ 15 minutes ~
14:24 phf asciilifeform: https://www.patreon.com/xahlee
14:26 asciilifeform nao if only d00d had a key!!
14:26 asciilifeform because as-is, i've nfi who that is.
14:26 asciilifeform 'shakespeare or some other man by that name'
14:31 asciilifeform in other oddities: 'EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range \nCInv::GetCommand() : type=1073741825 unknown type \nbitcoin in ProcessMessage() \n'
14:32 asciilifeform ^ nonfatal eggog, but interestingly not caught by malleus, and afaik not previously seen
↖
14:32 asciilifeform #!s type=1073741825
14:32 asciilifeform !#s type=1073741825
14:32 a111 2 results for "type=1073741825", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=type%3D1073741825
14:34 asciilifeform ^ if anybody knows what kind of prb generates these, and for what, plox to write in.
14:34 asciilifeform ( i suspect an attempted overflow exploit, against something-or-other )
~ 52 minutes ~
15:27 deedbot http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/12/28/eucrypt-chapter-3-miller-rabin-implementation/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 3: Miller-Rabin Implementation
↖
15:33 phf diana_coman: i think there might be an issue with your ch3
15:34 diana_coman I just noticed the weird graph; any idea what?
15:34 diana_coman I tested it locally with v and v99 and everything pressed fine
15:34 diana_coman it does modify a lot of things so it's seen as having antecedents ch1, ch2 and the mpi-fix iirc
15:34 diana_coman is that the trouble?
15:34 diana_coman phf, ^
15:35 phf so the weird graph indicates that some hunks are missing antecedents, in this case at least test_mpi.c is claiming a previous version that's not in btcbase
15:35 phf 7E38475A32331EA69EE91A211E803910503868710D1E140179CB4B9B7C3767B9334BABE713D8E721F6E616A5FD5012ED19791D12CF2EAD59C5DAC437688E0B2C
15:35 diana_coman I've updated the reference shelf phf, maybe you are missing the previous patch? http://www.dianacoman.com/reference-code-shelf/
15:36 phf ah, the fix copy thing!
15:37 phf diana_coman: is working now, ty
15:39 diana_coman thank you, phf!
15:43 danielpbarron !!up pint
15:43 deedbot pint voiced for 30 minutes.
15:50 phf !!up pint
15:50 deedbot pint voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 47 minutes ~
16:37 phf asciilifeform: http://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/355219-valeriy-bardin-istoriya-cheloveka-prisoedinivshego-sssr-k-seti
↖ ↖
16:44 trinque that was odd.
16:45 trinque Connection reset by peer << aha
16:47 trinque !!up mircea_popescu
16:47 deedbot mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.
16:47 mircea_popescu hm
16:48 trinque bot was getting disconnected due to mysterytube reasons. your pm !!up might work now
16:48 mircea_popescu lessee
~ 17 minutes ~
17:05 ben_vulpes did we do http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42505261 yet?
17:06 phf ^ http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759378
17:06 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 03:31 shinohai: http://archive.is/vAfjT <<< now THIS is the lulziest thing, to me, of the entire week.
17:06 ben_vulpes that's right
17:08 mircea_popescu lol the pantsuit spamsites just recycle the same "content" ? who couldve...
17:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759713 << lol.
17:10 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 16:56 phf: it was literally the case of "milord, i made this basket from only finest of twigs, for your misses. ... bless you, milord"
17:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759720 << nah, apeloyee character also from there iirc.
↖
17:11 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 16:58 asciilifeform: the rest, variously, went mad
17:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759732 << but how are you to know.
17:12 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 17:15 asciilifeform: fine, so #!born benkey
17:12 mircea_popescu also, simply !~from:benkay and go to last page.
17:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-10#-130013
17:13 a111 Logged on 2013-02-10 04:08 benkay: i'm waiting for the developing world to figure it out
17:16 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759782 << yes, pushdata is nonsensical model for bitcoin nodes.
17:16 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 17:37 asciilifeform: pushing dun do much for a trb node, who needs at any given time THAT ONE SPECIFIC NEXT block
17:16 mircea_popescu works ok for eg torrents, where all data is needed once in no particular order, but blockchain is not torrent.
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17:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759788 << o shit that was one helluva slum.
17:18 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 17:38 a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:48 a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:34 deedbot: [Trilema] No Se Fia - http://trilema.com/2016/no-se-fia/
17:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759799 << some dood, "fireduck"
17:21 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 17:45 asciilifeform: wassat
17:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759827 << the rule is "one line response" and yes
17:21 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 18:17 asciilifeform: keep the 1:1 eaten:shat rule for bots
17:23 mircea_popescu motherfucking patreon
17:23 mircea_popescu i am personally insulted by all the useless fuckwits with patreon profiles because unlike the useless fuckwits a la say rms, they MOVED THERE AFTER THE REPUBLIC.
17:23 mircea_popescu this is like "keybase" except more offensive.
17:24 danielpbarron i had that earlier today, went to #somechannel saying i want to sponsor show. they give me patreon link
17:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759851 << modern prb. "it just segfaulted, man"
17:25 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 19:32 asciilifeform: ^ nonfatal eggog, but interestingly not caught by malleus, and afaik not previously seen
17:25 mircea_popescu danielpbarron idiots gotta idiot, they're not fucking dedicated to ANYTHING like they';re dedicated to the maintenance and perpetuation of the empire of idiocy.
17:25 mircea_popescu seething fucking burning hatred already, jesus f.
17:26 danielpbarron they also gave me a gmail address, for what that's worth. i'm like "what's wrong with doing it right here??"
17:26 mircea_popescu no conception of anything is what's wrong.
17:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759874 << whoa check out how deep the forbes subversion goes, they actually hired one who knows enough of ru society to "fall upon his house".
17:28 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 21:37 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/355219-valeriy-bardin-istoriya-cheloveka-prisoedinivshego-sssr-k-seti
17:29 mircea_popescu putting the usd and euro "values" as if they existed or mattered up top is one thing. but this, thbis is liek moar skill and ability than seen from usg in 20 years.
17:30 mircea_popescu ahahahahaah
17:30 mircea_popescu ooomfg holy shit...
17:30 mircea_popescu "Или думаешь, что вырвешься. Потому что эти несколько лет вдруг прервутся сообщением — «Бардин умер». Вас также может заинтересовать..."
17:31 mircea_popescu im going to make this the permanent reference endpoint to that entire story of how sane language protects the speaker from idiocy as a passive aura.
17:34 mircea_popescu especially fabuous as the "you may also be interested in" bullshit is liek "virtualnoe bezdele rabotodateli rasplachivayutsya za internet SERFING" under "karera i svoy biznes". AS FUCKING IF!
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17:35 mircea_popescu "the computing centers, tired of routine, seized the novelty" holy crap. moscow station last functional usg item, defo.
~ 26 minutes ~
18:01 shinohai I missed the pantsuit drama yesterday http://archive.is/bpJUc
18:03 mircea_popescu lol all the self important "i'll read something else". really bitch ? what will you read, trilema ?
18:03 mircea_popescu as if there's fucking options at their level. "oh, i am destitute but have options!!1"
18:04 mircea_popescu "daniel is a bot" "how can you tell it's a bot ?" "because i don;t like what it says, but let's veil this into some numerology considerations". hurr.
~ 21 minutes ~
18:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759857 << oh hey hey hey lbj!!
18:26 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 20:27 deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/12/28/eucrypt-chapter-3-miller-rabin-implementation/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 3: Miller-Rabin Implementation
18:26 * asciilifeform puts ^item on read-conveyor
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18:28 shinohai "'Cryptocurrency enthusiast and cybersecurity pioneer John McAfee has claimed that his Twitter account was compromised by an unknown offender who used his social media account to fraudulently promote “undervalued” digital coins.'
18:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759874 >> 'России на этой встрече предложили оплатить взнос в группу, сообразно размеру сети. И выяснилось, что Россия (напомню, 90-е годы, денег нет ни у кого и никаких) должна заплатить больше, чем Англия, Франция и Германия вм
18:29 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 21:37 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/355219-valeriy-bardin-istoriya-cheloveka-prisoedinivshego-sssr-k-seti
18:29 asciilifeform есте взятые. Бардин взял слово и заявил, что заплатить согласен, но если деньги будут потрачены согласно уставу организации — на доведение уровня развития реципиентов бюджета до уровня доноров. И если Англия с Францией на эти деньги будут
18:29 asciilifeform рушить мосты и ломать дороги, то мы, конечно, оплатим. Англия с Францией подумали, и претензии к России умерили.' << i had nfi
18:31 asciilifeform 'russia [at eu unix user group] was invited to pay a membership due in proportion to its network size. it turned out that russia (remember, '90s, nobody's got any kind of moneys whatsoever) must pay more than england, france, and germany put together. bardin took the stage and proclaimed that he is ready to pay, but only if the money will be used in accordance with the organization's charter -- to bring the development level of the r
18:31 asciilifeform ecipients to that of the donor's. and if england and france will put this money to use to demolish bridges and bread down roads, then we of course will pay. england and france thought about it, and their dispute with russia died down.'
18:32 asciilifeform *break down
18:33 asciilifeform 'Наверное, до конца своих дней Валера Бардин остался советским человеком — мне кажется, он не умел делать вещи, полезные лично ему, или какой-то отдельной группе. Всем. Или никому. Мы все когда-то были такими. Мы. Люди из уничтоженной страны.
18:33 asciilifeform И, может быть, еще будем. Может быть это именно то, чему стоило учиться у Валерия Бардина. Когда он был.' <<
18:34 asciilifeform 'perhaps, to the end of his days, valeriy bardin remained a soviet man -- it seems to me, that he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group. everyone. or nobody. we all once were like this. us. people from a destroyed country. and, perhaps, will be again. perhaps this was specifically the thing which was worth learning from valeriy bardin. when he was still there.'
18:35 mircea_popescu see ?
18:35 mircea_popescu epic fucking piece.
18:35 * asciilifeform pulls out imaginary notebook and tried to predict, before eating rest of log, how mircea_popescu barfed
18:35 * mircea_popescu waves at the moscow usg residentura.
18:37 asciilifeform ok, ate the log, but puzzled
18:37 asciilifeform what's in it for the rezidentura
18:37 * mircea_popescu is also happy at how diana_coman 's code veers towards literate style. you've seen this phf ?
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18:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the fate of the lost is that they continue at their level of skill.
18:37 asciilifeform i still dungetit, is there hoap
18:37 mircea_popescu kinda why lemures/spectra/etc were scary to teh romans.
18:38 asciilifeform it reads like a genuine obit by a genuine man of a genuine man..
18:38 mircea_popescu these are the spirits of the dead, unsatiated, restless, unburied.
18:38 mircea_popescu they attained no closure, yet can't go.
18:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759922 << and yes it's plastered in spamola. confession : until today asciilifeform did not know there WAS a ru forbes
18:38 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 22:34 mircea_popescu: especially fabuous as the "you may also be interested in" bullshit is liek "virtualnoe bezdele rabotodateli rasplachivayutsya za internet SERFING" under "karera i svoy biznes". AS FUCKING IF!
18:39 asciilifeform what's next, a ru nyt ? wapo?
18:39 asciilifeform radio phree europe!111
18:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how do you read "it seems to me, that he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group. everyone. or nobody. we all once were like this. us. people from a destroyed country" other than a) a retcon of history (soviet man EMINENTLY was never like this,. but like the opposite of this) and b) "please please please let there be no republc please" rendered in prolix sty
18:39 mircea_popescu le ?
18:40 asciilifeform i'ma let mircea_popescu guess
18:40 asciilifeform ( spoiler: nope )
18:40 mircea_popescu forbes ru exists to lend credence to the empty notion that forbes is a thing, which is no different from the proposition best-bitcoin-mining-trading-info-near-you-australia.s3.amazonaws.com is a thing.
18:41 asciilifeform if it's a usg.op, it's to prop up the rest of the forbes liquishit with this eminently respectable piece.
18:41 mircea_popescu and the dollar is "quoted" in rubles to propose that anyone would ever want to buy some.
18:41 mircea_popescu and the piece is OF a respectable man, but not by a respectable man, though the quality of the masquerade is indeed high.
18:42 asciilifeform i dun see it. because, guesswat, asciilifeform is exactly same type of man .
18:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i seem to think parts of dead frog behave more convincingly than other parts.
18:42 mircea_popescu eg, the salted leg in moscow jumps!
18:42 phf zavalashin is another old timer, the piece in question is his only contribution to forbse
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18:42 asciilifeform and i unzip and piss on the other type of man. the ones who tried to alchemize and monopolize the unix src, described in $article.
18:42 mircea_popescu but the point is not that.
18:43 mircea_popescu the point is really, "soviet man didn't know how to support a group" ?
18:43 mircea_popescu which soviet i never saw was this ?!
18:43 asciilifeform the point is apparently that the paragraph where item falls down for mircea_popescu , is where it... stands up for asciilifeform
18:44 mircea_popescu well then, explain this to me.
18:44 asciilifeform essence is, i think, that d00d did not charge-for-sunlight and didn't think much of people who tried.
18:44 mircea_popescu like, let's have an example of any item, mechanism, anything recognizably soviet that worked as described.
18:44 asciilifeform and this was respectable, and respected. it was ~ideal~ of 'sov man', not necessarily life.
18:44 mircea_popescu man at shop where they don't hjave meat said, "well, if there's not enough meat for the whole queue, i take no meat" ?
18:44 mircea_popescu did this occur anywhere ?
18:44 asciilifeform y'know, like http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-25#643502 is idea.
18:44 a111 Logged on 2014-04-25 20:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg
18:44 asciilifeform *ideal
18:45 mircea_popescu but this isn't in any sense what's said.
18:45 asciilifeform fughet about the meat counter and the Official claptrap.
18:45 asciilifeform it's a religious ideal.
18:45 phf there's soviets that read "ponedelnik nachinayetsa..." and took it to heart, they proped up the rest of the charade. that's the ideal soviet man, that products of intelligentsia parents like ascii or myself talk about. it is obviously a chimera, but it still has a mythical value
18:45 asciilifeform like the dervish.
18:45 mircea_popescu phf which is why this dude is trying to help forbes sell.
18:46 mircea_popescu it's what we expect to see, isn't it ? usg is specifically the empire of "there's a difference between what is and what you want to see, and we live out of selling that"
18:46 asciilifeform it's not an ideal of the office plankton, of the обыватель ( ~burgher ) mushmind, no. it is ideal of the man of science.
18:46 phf i suspect this dude doesn't have any kind of apropriate venue to publish an obituary that he expects to be read by a lot of people. that's sort of the point of obituary, is to get any random reddit man to scratch his head
18:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the ideal of the soviet man of science is that until such a time as every last soviet citizen can follow brin the elder, no brin the elder should speak ?
18:46 mircea_popescu no child left behind was the soviet ideal ? really ?
18:46 mircea_popescu i guess i should read less russian and more clintonian.
18:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there is no actual connection between your map and the territory. it's dust on yer lens.
18:46 mircea_popescu phf entirely not true.
18:47 mircea_popescu the point of an obituary is to satisfy the spirit of the departed.
18:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform where ?
18:47 asciilifeform where 'no child left behind' even enters yer mind.
18:47 asciilifeform 0 connection.
18:48 mircea_popescu phf by the time you write obituaries "istos plausus, cum popularibus civibus tribuerentur", you have already done the deed, and now work for forbes.
18:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what does "it seems to me, that he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group. everyone. or nobody." mean here in your reading ?
18:49 asciilifeform item ain't about socialist fungus robbing mircea_popescu's gold to pay iq80 scum to breed. item is about a man of science who 'acted from causes, not purposes' and did not think 'hey i can't monetize 'principia', i'd better not newtonate'
18:49 mircea_popescu consider specifically http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902
18:49 a111 Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
18:49 mircea_popescu does this meet your criteria for " he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group" ?
18:50 asciilifeform sure does. and i , and e.g. phf, are alive because of kurchatov. moar directly than from penicillin etc.
18:50 mircea_popescu (note that i ~can~ both follow and support the reading of the man's words that'd permit you to say "Yes" ; however it'd be very much a sopirla, and well distant from what "plain reading" delivers.)
18:50 mircea_popescu ie, the illiterate 20something reader will read something else.
18:51 asciilifeform now this i cannot touch, i have deeply nfi what sort of cockroaches are chittering in typical '20something reader'.
18:51 mircea_popescu but!
18:52 mircea_popescu think : kurchatov eminently supported a primitive republic AGAINST "everyone".
18:52 mircea_popescu what he did was IN SPITE of the politruk, not for the politruk.
18:52 asciilifeform nobody alive actually 'for everyone'.
18:52 mircea_popescu he created a partition over the statal space, and choose some bits.
18:52 asciilifeform nobody outside of psych ward, at any rate.
18:52 mircea_popescu yes, but this is directly contradicting the words.
18:52 mircea_popescu here, i have a soviet joke for you :
18:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform was once director of insane asylum. moscow inspectors came to examine ivan bonapartii napoleonovich, a celebrated nutcase. ivan said "einstein is a jew, because his theories privilege the speed of light in preference of other speeds that are much more important to us" and asciilifeform brought ivan a cup of tea.
18:54 mircea_popescu at the inspector's puzzled query, asciilifeform responded "it's clear he meant tea rather than coffee by that request".
18:55 asciilifeform lol
18:55 mircea_popescu the story would work just as well but better with the coffee/tea switched, but i did it this way in memory of the master nikolay pushkin.
18:55 mircea_popescu now let's not make cluj cabbage of everything else too!
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18:57 asciilifeform possibly the 'Всем.' will make moarsense in light of the sov mythos where, e.g., pygmies in the jungle still in the end will win from newton publishing 'principia', because one day They Too will want to learn mechanics and build railways and so forth.
18:57 mircea_popescu the argument is not that usian socialism is utterly and entirely disjunct from soviet socialism
18:57 mircea_popescu "in the absolute ideals spehre" or however formulated
18:57 mircea_popescu at the very least because, obviously, no two things man-made can be entirely disjunct thereby.
18:58 mircea_popescu nevertheless! the "genuine similarity" as one might in sufficient analysis passes unearth, is spurious when compared to the evident construction and its evident goals.
18:59 asciilifeform the argument , in asciilifeform's reading, is that bardin was a Troo Man Of Science (tm)(r) , liek the fella who starved in the seed collection in sieged leningrad. i.e. instead of going to sell soap and getrichquick(tm) in 'cooperatives', blackmarketeering, misc. adventurism, d00d sat and built up usenet node in su. collected unix src into a working whole, and did not try to gatekeeper. etc
19:00 mircea_popescu as i said, i can see this reading ; but it is entirely not what the text says.
19:00 mircea_popescu what, fellow could not have used his language to say what he meant, i am to reconstruct the dinosaur out of half tooth ?
19:00 * asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu's reading is equally martian to, e.g., phf , as to asciilifeform
19:00 asciilifeform i suspect that mircea_popescu lacks the '#includes'
19:00 phf it is, hence my comment about "ponedelnik"
19:01 asciilifeform aha!!
19:01 mircea_popescu well, so it's martian, happens. not like it's mandatory or anything ; but might be informative. or not.
19:01 asciilifeform it slipped by me, ah
19:01 asciilifeform but phf has it , yes
19:02 phf but there's a point there, which is not necessarily about the man, but about the author. the selling forbes part, which i think is true. bulk of su intelligentsia went full "progressive" after the collapse
19:02 asciilifeform they also went, and to this day are, where the food bowl is.
19:02 asciilifeform like street animals.
19:02 mircea_popescu the other direct avenue, of course, is to say "text was a lot better as author submitted it, before forbes"ru" chiseled it into visible shape". which for all i know might even be true,
19:02 asciilifeform and like in any other, for that matter, country.
19:03 mircea_popescu god knows nobody has YET written a piece for the usg faux news outlets that survived braindamaging at time of packaging (and some truly eminent examples documented by various parties)
19:03 asciilifeform i dun even see this supposed forbes-massage.
19:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so then there's no substance to your disagreement, nor is the reading martian after all ?!
19:03 asciilifeform from asciilifeform's lens it looks entirely like what i would have written myself, about this man, if i were closer to $subject.
19:04 mircea_popescu really ?!
19:04 asciilifeform really.
19:04 mircea_popescu well now i wanna see this. pretend i'm dead and let's see three paragraphs.
19:04 asciilifeform nao for all i know this was done specifically to make asciilifeform et al think that 'ru forbes' is a thing.
19:05 * asciilifeform realizes he ain't any good at obit
19:05 mircea_popescu but you spoke like one who had considered the matter of writing obits quite well ?!
19:05 asciilifeform try an' live a bit longer, folx!11
19:05 asciilifeform apparently i'ma 'chukcha-reader, not writer'
19:06 mircea_popescu it's one thing to say "if i were writing it i'd have written the same" when you wrote a few and considered how you'd write even more. but on the nude... ?
19:06 mircea_popescu am i actually the only one to have written any obituaries, incidentally ?
19:07 asciilifeform let's revise, 'i'd've like to have written the same.'
19:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i wrote one for mccarthy
19:07 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=498 << subj.
19:08 mircea_popescu it should perhaps be pointed out that while things like grocery lists, love letters, blog articles, ransom notes at all one might "should" write, it is the obituary which stands alone among all the literary forms as the only piece man must, eventually but absolutely MUST write.
19:09 * asciilifeform won't disagree.
19:11 asciilifeform ^ even includes link to another Troo Sov. 'Did Not Sell Soap But Starved While Making Worthwhile Things' (tm) d00d
19:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how come your above item fails to point out the obvious, "he was dedicated to the supremacy of white man, and his enslavement of the entire world and nature itself to his own tastes and inclinations" ?
19:13 asciilifeform imho it did not need pointing, any moar than 2+2=4
19:13 asciilifeform i did not , then, have pygmy readers.
19:13 asciilifeform afaik.
19:13 asciilifeform prolly still dont
19:14 mircea_popescu but "Мы все когда-то были такими. Мы." did ?
19:14 asciilifeform this Мы has that brotherhood-of-civilized-men baked into it.
19:14 mircea_popescu how come the arcane "you're missing the includes" need not be mentioned in one piece but was mentioned in the other and this gives you no pause in the "that's how i'd have done" ?
19:14 mircea_popescu you evidently did not do the same ?
19:14 asciilifeform sorta how when asciilifeform switches on his console in the morning, he does not think 'but what will cockroaches think'
19:14 asciilifeform it just dun enter me head.
19:15 mircea_popescu you understand statement is the first process in the dissolution of taboo and the de-fanging of belief ?
19:15 mircea_popescu one item is stated ; the other item is not stated. does this belie anything about the relative situations of beliefs ?
19:15 asciilifeform right, i've nuffin against russel&whitehead killing 8kg of tree to show how 1+1 makes 2
19:15 asciilifeform for that matter, what's ffa, lol
19:15 asciilifeform but will point out that most mathematical works do not reprint r&w's 1+1 ...
19:16 asciilifeform they dunneed to.
19:19 * asciilifeform rereading oldies, e.g. his response to a circa-2011 gabriel_laddel , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=498&cpage=1#comment-1812
19:24 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759898 << in a sane gossiptron, nobody'd be keeping bastard blocks around to begin with, and the problem would not even be formulatable, 'what do you mean, out of order, everybody's got an ordered array of blocks, some people simply longer one than others, let's all visit'em'
19:24 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 22:16 mircea_popescu: works ok for eg torrents, where all data is needed once in no particular order, but blockchain is not torrent.
19:25 asciilifeform the intrinsic difficulty of a trbtron's job is more or less 100% in dealing-with-prb.
19:25 asciilifeform prb is a bug (tm)(r) !!
19:26 asciilifeform ( and , consider, if mining were not also a bug, who would waste any time attempting to converse with prbtrons ? )
19:28 asciilifeform and a not-insignificant chunk of the work one sees in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable , had to happen on account of 'and we still have to talk to prb somehow...'
19:29 asciilifeform ( in particular the orphanages amputations. good chunk of bandwidth is TO THIS. DAY. wasted , by prbtrons throwing their liquishit at trbtron )
19:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759889 << i had this notion that he happened by reading the l0gz, not asciilifeform's www. but could be wrong.
19:29 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 22:11 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759720 << nah, apeloyee character also from there iirc.
19:32 asciilifeform in other noose, zoolag has 21 peers, and has been at the bleeding tip of the spear continuously ( at least through the lens of asciilifeform's hand-cranked observatory gear) since getting there.
19:33 mod6 cool
19:35 asciilifeform nao, if we reintroduce checkpoints ( SANE checkpoints : i.e. keccak-of-whole-block-bitwise, rather than merkleism and sha2; and pgp-signed config eaten at boot ) we can have nodes that sync from empty hdd to full in <1day ...
19:35 shinohai ^
19:36 asciilifeform ( because they don't be sitting for 30sec to 6min per block grunting ecdsa )
↖
19:36 asciilifeform *won't be
19:37 asciilifeform theoretically could even have a 'actually do the full-bore-verifications in background AFTER sync' knob.
19:37 asciilifeform imho this is aesthetically displeasing but inevitable, eventually it'll be this or copying disks, sync-from-empty-space will be impractical in human timeframe
19:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760097 << if doing that, correct thing is to justr copy over the official-chain
19:38 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 00:36 asciilifeform: ( because they don't be sitting for 30sec to 6min per block grunting ecdsa )
19:39 asciilifeform right but really oughta formalize it, rather than ad-hoc
19:39 mircea_popescu not so sure.
19:39 asciilifeform and let there be such a thing as , e.g., viral-payload-node-that-still-gets-correct-blox-but-dun-need-to-carry-200GB
19:40 asciilifeform incidentally at one time asciilifeform made and signed a block hash manifest. but cannot find in the logz...
19:40 asciilifeform where is it.
19:40 asciilifeform was it a dream..?
19:42 mircea_popescu o shit there it is, navrozov moment!
↖
19:42 mircea_popescu i was looking for this the other day.
19:42 asciilifeform i will also add, it is not wholly useless to ~watch~ who is sending over Troo Blox and who -- somethingleses
19:42 asciilifeform *somethingelses
19:42 asciilifeform and for that, want to have TrooManifest.
19:42 mircea_popescu true
19:43 asciilifeform and yes i grasp that this is a kind of usurpation. but given http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759658, !
19:43 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 16:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform republic has strength to enforce dunnit ?
19:48 asciilifeform oh hah, while digging, found https://archive.is/gB5hg << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-07#1123345 , entirely-unrelated archaeological item that somebody-or-other had asked for some time this year...
19:48 a111 Logged on 2015-05-07 00:09 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0M8QV5T.txt << signed manifest (by me)
19:48 mircea_popescu let us rescue some piece into the logs : ugh
19:48 mircea_popescu this isn't fucking it.
19:48 asciilifeform definitely not
19:48 mircea_popescu where the fuck is that piece commenting on how soviet citizens all sooner or later wake up to the disney quality of their state ?
↖
19:49 asciilifeform hmmm
19:49 asciilifeform !#s volokh
19:49 a111 7 results for "volokh", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=volokh
19:49 asciilifeform iirc it was him
19:49 mircea_popescu hm
19:50 mircea_popescu i thought it was an actualy russian.
19:50 asciilifeform he was
19:50 mircea_popescu at washington post ?
19:50 asciilifeform ( emphasis on past tense )
19:50 asciilifeform iirc it is his younger brother who is a major-league pantsuitist nao
19:50 asciilifeform 'not shakespeare, the other shakespeare'
19:52 asciilifeform https://archive.is/Et3G << that volokh.
19:52 asciilifeform (not the desired piece tho, yet...)
19:54 asciilifeform oh hah it was the brother : http://volokh.com/2010/04/30/on-a-bus-in-kiev/
19:54 asciilifeform ^ mircea_popescu
19:54 asciilifeform possibly this is it.
↖
19:55 asciilifeform written, apparently, before d00d went quisling.
19:55 asciilifeform ( at one point there were a 'volokh brothers' www, and fairly respectable imho . )
19:57 asciilifeform ( in re checkpoints, pertinent thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-28#1180510 and i was quite certain that some time then i posted hashes... )
19:57 a111 Logged on 2015-06-28 19:14 mircea_popescu: the entire idea of what we are building here is NODE HIERARCHY.
19:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180868 << hey ben_vulpes , does yer box do this ?
19:59 a111 Logged on 2015-06-29 02:31 asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody who wants can now easily serve http://yourthing/blocks/x
19:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180935 << did i only ~think~ of it, but did not do..?
19:59 a111 Logged on 2015-06-29 02:56 asciilifeform: i sorta want to start doing this thing where we for blocks 0 ... n, sha512sum block_n | gpg ...
20:00 asciilifeform >>>> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180989 <<<< ding
20:00 a111 Logged on 2015-06-29 04:51 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/readme_s.txt http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz.sig
20:00 asciilifeform here they are.
20:00 asciilifeform i.e. 'We have now the sha512 checksums of all blocks loaded by yours truly from mircea_popescu's machine on June 28 - 29, 2015. This is posted here as a permanent record in light of a certain conversation [2] concerning possible shitgnomatic shenanigans.'
~ 18 minutes ~
20:19 esthlos phf: a little birdie told me you are working on a diff replacement. have you made significant progress?
20:34 phf esthlos: got gnudiff down to 6149 loc from 300407, added shasum to it, as of now it can do http://archive.is/5WxUZ
20:36 phf i took a little break to put it into CWEB so i can print it and read it (cutting process was mostly mechanic, so now i need to actually grok some of the things it does), but that turned out to be a pita
20:39 esthlos 300K loc????
20:43 phf well 200k, rest is whitespace and comments
20:44 esthlos fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
↖ ↖ ↖
20:44 phf original figure, i believe was wc -l on everything, i refined the loc mesasure
20:45 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/binblocks/0.bin
20:45 asciilifeform ooh neat
20:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes did this already exist, or new today
20:45 ben_vulpes they're not all there, as that's the directory they get dumped into after mimisbrunnr is asked for them the first time
20:45 ben_vulpes symlink is new as of today
20:49 asciilifeform neato
20:54 phf esthlos: what do you mean by transparently?
21:09 esthlos phf: vaguely, that the code maps to the actual problem with no extraneous complexity, in an easily readable way
21:09 phf aah, hmm
21:11 esthlos the program should be a good substitute for reading the paper directly
21:11 phf well, the context of what i'm trying to do is in the logs. specifically mcilroy diffing implementation is not necessarily the problem (relevant bits of gnudiff are reducable to maybe 500-1000 loc)
21:14 phf what i'm trying to do is not so much a rewrite, as first an ascii style cut of relevant bits, to preserve backwards compatability with current patches, and then augmentation to support various operations that were discussed in logs, that are more about file management than they are about diffing
21:16 phf what you have on top of original paper is unified diff format and the handling of multiple files in a single patch. (that's where you run into the bulk of extra code; things like sorting directory is simply unpleasant to do in C)
21:30 phf this follows ascii's pattern of trying to bend existing tools to our needs, before we know enough to do a greenfield rewrite. there's a lot of ideas floating around what v is supposed to do. a clean rewrite of mcilroy could serve as a basis for further work, but you should perhaps follow discussion in the logs on the subject to get the full scope of the problem
21:45 esthlos phf: alright, I will have to read up. my practice v implementation will be in CL, and I was thinking of implementing mcilroy for educational purposes. if such an implementation sounds useful, let me know
21:48 phf please do, it would be useful as a reference, but also for me specifically: btcbase.org/patch is written in common lisp, but it can only eat vpatches, not spit them out, so a mcilroy would be a solid addition
21:49 phf http://btcbase.org/patches that is
21:51 esthlos excellent. also, I feel your pain. every day I write in C, I swear I lose an iq point
↖
21:57 phf that would be a very gruesome science fiction narrative, if that was actually the case. a kind of strugatsky's roadside picnic :>
↖
21:57 esthlos it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand
↖
21:58 phf but i actually really want to learn to spit out elegant C like knuth, djb or rob pike
21:59 phf i mean, if you read norvig's python snippets you can clearly see they are written by a very experienced lispers. you literally never see python like that in the wild, but yet there it is.
↖
22:02 esthlos elegant C exists, but the limits of the language the complexity it can handle without exploding into incomprehensibility.
↖
22:02 esthlos *caps the complexity
22:03 esthlos certainly I can't write elegant C tho
22:05 esthlos even with small C projects I start to panic when I realise I don't know how it works anymore
↖
22:08 phf i had that experience when i tried implementing an older spec of gossipd. i wrote it in C, actually CWEB, but i wasn't doing literate programming right, and after a while the whole thing became overwhelming.
22:09 phf but then i can also understand the whole "back in my day" sentiment. common lisp certainly lets you write ~very sloppy~ code and get away with it :>
↖
~ 19 minutes ~
22:28 asciilifeform in other non-news, ben_vulpes yer ircbot thing dun work with znc. for the obvious reason of containing magicstring-expectation liquishit.
↖
22:28 asciilifeform i wasted hours.
22:30 phf asciilifeform: that would be the case with trinque's bot too
22:30 asciilifeform aha.
22:30 asciilifeform !!up pehbot
22:30 deedbot pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
22:30 phf thing expects a complicated challenge response state machine to happen
22:30 asciilifeform pehbot: help
22:30 pehbot asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.
22:30 asciilifeform pehbot: .2.2+[=]#
22:30 pehbot asciilifeform: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004
22:30 asciilifeform pehbot: _
22:30 pehbot asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 0: Stack Underflow!
22:30 asciilifeform etc.
22:30 phf hah!
22:31 asciilifeform it lives inside a slime atm. i'ma leave it up for a spell, in case anybody wants to play.
22:31 mircea_popescu pretty cool.
22:31 asciilifeform try it
22:31 phf pehbot: .123'#4'#
22:31 pehbot phf: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Stack Underflow!
22:32 mircea_popescu pehbot .2.0-[=]#
22:32 mircea_popescu pehbot: .2.0-[=]#
22:32 pehbot mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
22:32 phf pehbot: .123'#
22:32 pehbot phf: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Stack Underflow!
22:32 mircea_popescu pehbot: .2.17^[=]#
22:32 pehbot mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000015
22:33 phf ascii: isn't ' a dup?
22:33 mircea_popescu um
22:33 mircea_popescu pehbot: .11![=]#
22:33 pehbot mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000011
22:33 asciilifeform phf: nope.
22:33 asciilifeform it's a swap , phf
22:33 mircea_popescu pehbot: .123456789.987654321*[=]#
22:33 pehbot mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000987654321
22:33 asciilifeform you read ch4 , neh
22:33 phf yeah, i forgot :>
22:34 mircea_popescu pehbot: .123456789.987654321+[=]#
22:34 pehbot mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000AAAAAAAAA
22:34 phf oh it's a swap
22:34 mircea_popescu ahem
22:34 mircea_popescu pehbot: .123456789.987654321-[=]#
22:34 pehbot mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF79BE02468
22:34 phf pehbot: .123"#4#
22:34 pehbot phf: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001230000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001234
22:34 mircea_popescu is this actually correct ?
22:35 asciilifeform in fact it is: it strips newlines
22:35 asciilifeform on output
22:35 mircea_popescu oh oh
22:35 asciilifeform yea this is a draft
22:35 mircea_popescu and F notation for negative ?
22:35 asciilifeform nope
22:35 mod6 this is pretty cool lol
22:35 asciilifeform no negatives !!!!
22:35 asciilifeform they dun exist in yer cpu either
22:35 asciilifeform integer arithm
22:35 mircea_popescu mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF79BE02468 <
22:35 asciilifeform pehbot: ..1-#
22:35 pehbot asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
22:35 asciilifeform ^ consider.
22:35 asciilifeform just like yer cpu.
22:35 mircea_popescu shouldn't it eggog ?
22:35 asciilifeform no.
22:36 phf penbot: .~
22:36 asciilifeform this is fundamental. it's finitefield arithm.
22:36 phf pehbot: .~
22:36 pehbot phf:
22:36 mircea_popescu shouldn't it eggog on .. also ?
22:36 asciilifeform no, why ?
22:36 phf pehbot: .~#
22:36 pehbot phf: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
22:36 mircea_popescu because .. is not .0.
22:36 asciilifeform i can tell who read ch4 and who not!111
22:36 asciilifeform read ch4 folx.
22:36 phf pehbot: Q
22:36 pehbot phf:
22:37 phf pehbot: .2.2+
22:37 pehbot phf:
22:37 phf err
22:37 phf pehbot: .2.2+#
22:37 pehbot phf: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004
22:37 phf pehbot: .1.2.3.4.5Q
22:37 pehbot phf: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000050000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
22:37 phf this is cool :>
22:38 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/pehbot.jpg << for posterity.
↖
22:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760138 << absolutely not it, no.
22:39 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 00:54 asciilifeform: possibly this is it.
22:39 phf asciilifeform: i like the . trick by the way, is there prior art to it?
22:40 asciilifeform phf: which trick
22:40 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i am not going to take responsibility for your not reading the connection routines. it's plain as day the thing expects magic strings.
22:40 ben_vulpes when i booted one somehow i did not waste hours.
22:40 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: somehow didn't click, at first, the depth to which it was a kludge, lol
22:40 phf well, . puts a zero and the 1-9A-F mutates the top, so you don't have to have state in the parser
22:40 asciilifeform i'ma have to make a znctronic clone
22:41 asciilifeform phf: i came up with it in 2016 when wrote the orig, unpublished mpitronic 'p'
22:41 asciilifeform ( ffacalc, in case anyone has illusions , is not p. not yet in ch4 anyway ! )
22:42 ben_vulpes freenode is the kludge; im not going to sink time into making *tronic bot that doesn't do auth itself because freenode doesn't like your host.
22:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes:fair'nuff
22:42 phf i feel like you chould email it to chuck moore, he'll get a kick out of it "saves 25 bits on my greenarray cluster!"
22:42 asciilifeform lol
22:42 * mircea_popescu is willing to bet chuck moore is too dumb to figure this out.
22:42 asciilifeform pehbot: .0{[foo]}{[bar]}
22:42 pehbot asciilifeform: bar
22:42 asciilifeform pehbot: .1{[foo]}{[bar]}
22:42 pehbot asciilifeform: foo
22:42 mircea_popescu email in whatevever manner you please.
22:43 asciilifeform pehbot: .1.2##
22:43 pehbot asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
22:43 asciilifeform pehbot: .1.2'##
22:43 pehbot asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
22:43 phf though come to think of it, in colorforth it'll make things more expensive (since now each digit basically costs a header-and-a-word's-worth)
22:43 asciilifeform apologies to folx reading l0g, barfing...
22:43 mircea_popescu they'll live.
22:44 asciilifeform i dun expect pehbot to become perma-resident
22:44 phf didn't we have a candi session!
22:44 mod6 i kinda like this thing, and while your loper posts are fresh, i'd like it hang for a bit.
22:45 asciilifeform pehbot: .1{[foo]}{ .0{[nested]}{[loops]}_ [work in p] }
22:45 pehbot asciilifeform: foo
22:45 asciilifeform pehbot: .0{[foo]}{ .0{[nested]}{[loops]}_ [work in p] }
22:45 pehbot asciilifeform: loopswork in p
22:45 asciilifeform pehbot: .0{[foo]}{ .1{[nested]}{[loops]}_ [work in p] }
22:45 pehbot asciilifeform: nestedwork in p
22:45 asciilifeform etc.
22:45 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760156 << certainly.
22:45 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 01:44 esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
22:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform other than the wrong control sequence / your utter ignoring of that whole mechanism, the bot is compliant, spits out one line per command, can sit forever.
22:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: atm it uses speak-when-voiced-and-spoken-to trigger
22:46 asciilifeform can make it whateveryalike
22:46 asciilifeform let's eggog 1moar:
22:46 asciilifeform pehbot: ................................
22:46 pehbot asciilifeform:
22:46 asciilifeform pehbot: .................................
22:46 pehbot asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 32: Stack Overflow!
22:46 mircea_popescu sure, i'll be happy to look up what the thing should be in preference of your doing it. lessee.
22:47 mircea_popescu !A asciilifeform
22:47 mircea_popescu works out well.
22:47 asciilifeform lesseee:
22:47 phf mircea_popescu: is there any reason there's no right shift in p? or there's some way to do it with what's there?
22:47 phf err, in calc rather
22:47 asciilifeform !A [foo]
22:47 pehbot asciilifeform: foo
22:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: done.
22:48 asciilifeform phf: ch5!!
22:48 mircea_popescu pehbot: [not yet]
22:48 mircea_popescu o hey. nice.
22:48 asciilifeform !A [not yet]
22:48 pehbot asciilifeform: not yet
22:48 mircea_popescu cool. ty.
22:48 mircea_popescu phf i dun think there is any fundamental reason no
22:48 phf cause you can do a ghetto left shift with 000 :>
22:49 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski << add pehbot to the list plox.
22:49 phf mircea_popescu: well, i thought he's got some minimalist tendencies, like left shift is done with a bunch of 0's and right shift is done with a combination of twig and rock
22:49 asciilifeform !A [☭☭☭☭☭☭☭some actual text ☭☭☭☭☭]
22:49 pehbot asciilifeform: some actual text
22:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform !A help would be nice once you get around to it.
22:49 asciilifeform !A help
22:49 pehbot asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.
22:49 phf !A [eg: ].1"#000#
22:49 pehbot phf: eg: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000
22:50 phf !A [or rather ].1"#[ ]000#
22:50 pehbot phf: or rather 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000
22:50 asciilifeform phf: i'ma tell you a seekrit : it'll be R and L, ( 2 - 1 ) in forthological notation
22:50 phf yeah, that makes sense
22:50 asciilifeform mega-surprise
22:51 asciilifeform !A [this prints (but this is a comment) some text]
22:51 pehbot asciilifeform: this prints (but this is a comment) some text
22:51 asciilifeform ah lol!
22:51 asciilifeform !A [this prints some text] (but this is a comment)
22:51 pehbot asciilifeform: this prints some text
22:51 * asciilifeform did this deliberately, and then forgot -- but this is correct precedence
22:52 mircea_popescu cool deal.
22:52 asciilifeform !A (the point of [someshit] is to output valid pcode like) [.1.2+#[=]]
22:52 pehbot asciilifeform: .1.2+#[=]
22:53 asciilifeform !A .1.2+#[=]
22:53 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003=
22:53 mircea_popescu and is it getting updated in step with the ffa publishings ?
22:53 asciilifeform !A ..1-O
22:53 pehbot asciilifeform:
22:53 asciilifeform err
22:53 asciilifeform !A ..1-O#
22:53 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
22:53 asciilifeform !A ..0-O#
22:53 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
22:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: of course.
22:53 mircea_popescu nice. will make a great tool i expect, can reference bot in examples etc.
22:54 mircea_popescu integration ftw.
22:54 asciilifeform aha.
22:54 asciilifeform !A .~#
22:54 pehbot asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
22:54 asciilifeform !A .A.B.0U#
22:54 pehbot asciilifeform: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A
22:54 asciilifeform !A .A.B.1U#
22:54 pehbot asciilifeform: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B
22:54 asciilifeform !A .2.1^#
22:54 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003
22:55 asciilifeform !A .3.1^#
22:55 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
22:55 mircea_popescu !A .F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A.F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B-[=]#
22:55 pehbot mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
22:56 mircea_popescu is it also named for REN TV ?
22:56 asciilifeform 'Q' is pretty useless in the bot, given what happens to whitespaces. i'ma have to adjust the filter.
22:56 asciilifeform what's 'ren tv'
22:56 mircea_popescu some tv station
22:56 asciilifeform never heard of it
22:57 asciilifeform !A [[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]
22:57 pehbot asciilifeform: [[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]
22:57 asciilifeform !A [[]]
22:57 pehbot asciilifeform: []
22:57 mod6 :]
22:57 asciilifeform !A [[]]]
22:57 pehbot asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Mismatched close-quote bracket !
22:57 phf asciilifeform: hey when you adjust the filters, can you make sure manual spacing still works?
22:58 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1656734 << delivered!1111
22:58 a111 Logged on 2017-05-16 01:36 asciilifeform: in other near-term lulz, a 'pbot' is in the worx, so that folx can play with various input->output pairs in-chan
22:58 mircea_popescu made http://trilema.com/2009/iluzionistul-merita-vazut/#selection-49.16-49.32
22:58 asciilifeform phf: issue for 'Q' strictly
22:58 mircea_popescu there;s this whole pile of 2nd world "Cinema" made by 30second ad people.
22:58 phf !A .1.1[foo ]#[=]#
22:58 pehbot phf: foo 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
22:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope, never saw
22:59 phf test !A .1.1##
22:59 mircea_popescu it's actually not a bad film.
22:59 * asciilifeform puts on list
23:00 mircea_popescu !!up pehbot
23:00 deedbot pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
23:01 asciilifeform !A .1.2<#
23:01 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
23:02 asciilifeform !A .2.1<#
23:02 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
23:02 asciilifeform !A .1.2>#
23:02 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
23:02 asciilifeform !A .2.1>#
23:02 pehbot asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
23:02 asciilifeform i think this covers errything.
23:02 mircea_popescu make the width settable btw ?
23:02 mircea_popescu !A help
23:02 pehbot mircea_popescu: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.
23:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is entirely doable but irc msg bounds makes it not particularly useful
23:03 mircea_popescu well, could be "up to 16k" or somesuch.
23:03 asciilifeform pehbot largely lives as a toy / ch4 exam.
23:03 mircea_popescu whjatever fits a line
23:03 mircea_popescu but sure.
23:03 asciilifeform line dun fit much, is the prob.
23:03 ben_vulpes what i did for candi was to link a paste
23:04 mircea_popescu ^
23:04 asciilifeform but why not see empirically:
23:04 asciilifeform !A help
23:04 pehbot asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 4096 and Height to 32.
23:04 asciilifeform !A .~#
23:04 pehbot asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
23:04 mircea_popescu the paste idea is pretty good, in that it takes the (unavoidable, btw) line issue away entirely.
23:04 phf the nick is going to make a difference, it's 250 characters by the way
23:04 asciilifeform it's cut
23:04 asciilifeform that's a 1672-bit num
23:05 mircea_popescu yeah it's 4000 max
23:05 phf asciilifeform: yes, but it's going to be shorter for mp
23:05 asciilifeform !A help
23:05 pehbot asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.
23:05 asciilifeform ^ put back
23:05 asciilifeform phf: aha!!
23:05 mircea_popescu should be good enough as it is anyway
23:05 phf !A g/2017-12-29#1760407
23:05 asciilifeform good enuff for what it was madefor.
23:05 pehbot phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760407
23:05 mircea_popescu the advantage of no paste is not needing the click
23:05 mircea_popescu phf nice.
23:06 phf yeah, it's also highlighted as bot on btcbase
23:06 asciilifeform !A [you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orc☭gra☭ms get dropped]
23:06 pehbot asciilifeform: you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orcgrams get dropped
23:07 asciilifeform !A ([you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orc☭gra☭ms get dropped] comments) [take precedence over []]
23:07 pehbot asciilifeform: take precedence over []
23:08 asciilifeform at some point i'ma put the thing on sumthing that ain't a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760270
23:08 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 03:38 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/pehbot.jpg << for posterity.
23:08 asciilifeform for nao, will leave it up for another hr or so in case anyone wants to play.
23:09 mircea_popescu inferior lisp lmao
23:09 asciilifeform slimologicalterm.
23:11 mircea_popescu btw, you are aware the canticle is just history-of-cluny with the serials (and most of the good stuff) shaved off ?
23:11 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
23:11 mircea_popescu kk
23:11 mircea_popescu "what if the northern part of new world was actually important and like, events happened here and shit ?~!?!?"
23:11 mircea_popescu the ~only preoccupation of us aspiring writers since day 0
23:12 asciilifeform presumably the folx who sailed, thought it'd amount to sumthing.
23:12 mircea_popescu not really, they just went for the cunt.
23:12 mircea_popescu "for lucre the briton..."
23:12 * asciilifeform brb,meat
23:13 phf mircea_popescu: i'm not, what is that?
23:13 mircea_popescu phf the barbaric lands were slowly recivilised after the fall of the roman empire. the effort centered around this fortified monastery in gaul, and its satellites
23:14 mircea_popescu (gaul was, in the estimation of the romans themselves, the better part of the empire, which is why most moved there)
23:19 phf oh so it's the history of cluny, rather than "The History of Cluny"
23:20 mircea_popescu i don't follow the distinction ?
23:21 phf one is an accumulation of knowledge on the subject of history in your head, the other one is a written book of that title, that one, if one were so inclined, could track down and read :)
23:21 mircea_popescu ah. sadly, accumulation.
23:21 mircea_popescu anyway, berno was the name of the original leibowitz
23:22 mircea_popescu but if you feel like the reading, about ~any history of the benedictine order in the early history of europe (say 10th and 11th centuries) should prove an informative read.
23:23 phf neat
23:23 mircea_popescu there is A REASON "european civilisation" bla bla, and that reason is the remarkable stability introduced through unlikely means. a sort of humour.
23:25 phf saint asciilifeform right there http://www.uni-muenster.de/imperia/md/images/fruehmittelalter/mon-cl.jpg
23:26 mircea_popescu ahahaha
23:26 mircea_popescu should prolly paste his inferior lisp screencap in that early mac screen.
23:28 mircea_popescu anyway, the important part in the actual history is that the abbey was de facto sovereign ~deliberately~, set up that way by the duke on purpose. i dun recall exactly the us retcon, but it was accidental if memory serves ? which is already a reduction, in my view.
23:29 mircea_popescu still, the whole reason for the (false, by the way) pretense to eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1757073 carried over to this very day was that "the trick worked for cluny", ten centuries ago. and so following.
23:29 a111 Logged on 2017-12-22 19:01 mircea_popescu: do they even give out tenures anymore ?
23:31 phf it's not the case for canticle (where it is sort of accidental, in a sense that "everything's so fucked that nobody cares, but when they do we have Electric Light!")
23:31 mircea_popescu right.
23:32 mircea_popescu in plain terms of the literary quality of the story, this approach seems to me weaker.
23:32 phf but in all the derivative work soveirgnty is deliberate
23:32 mircea_popescu ah ?
23:32 * mircea_popescu not expert in anglo sf whatsoever.
23:32 phf well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is
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23:33 mircea_popescu aite.
23:33 mircea_popescu i expect the way these generally work is, starved copywriter threw some shit together while hungover. since it was bought he put a little more work into it later on.
23:33 mircea_popescu a sorta miller-nin "payability test" if you will.
23:35 phf i sort of assumed (and that was sometimes topic of these derivative works) that mandate doesn't last more then a generation or two
23:35 mircea_popescu what is here meant by mandate ?
23:37 phf erm, never mind, "permission for sovereignty" , heh
23:37 mircea_popescu without dispute it lasted for at least... hm, i think there's ten between berno and peter ?
23:37 mircea_popescu in any case, a good few generations.
23:38 mircea_popescu the item was only formally sacked by the revolution.
23:38 phf that's better track record than templars :>
23:38 mircea_popescu it is.
23:38 mircea_popescu they were major factor in why there even IS a papacy in the first place, though.
23:38 mircea_popescu templars -- not.
23:45 mircea_popescu diana_coman "in next chapter" < add "the"
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23:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760175 << musta started way the fuck up there then huh :D
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23:49 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 02:51 esthlos: excellent. also, I feel your pain. every day I write in C, I swear I lose an iq point
23:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760177 << funny, im pretty sure this was in the logs. as a naggum quote.
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23:50 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 02:57 esthlos: it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand
23:50 mircea_popescu but, do not give managers a black eye. i for one often can't understand c.
23:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760494 << 'anathem' is prolly the 1 'sf' item written in usa in past 20-30y worth taking home
23:59 a111 Logged on 2017-12-29 04:32 phf: well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is
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