Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-12-26 | 2017-12-28 → ↓
00:02 trinque if an automatic manifest comprised of hashes of all items in project, it reduces to the $concatHashBefore and $concatHashAfter
00:03 mircea_popescu yes ; was just a place to put it really.
~ 33 minutes ~
00:36 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: let me know if your aggression patch was enough to stay at the tip of the chain, as it wasn't for my node.
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00:41 trinque ben_vulpes: huh, meanwhile node.deedbot.org is topped up without aggression and without 50400 setvernum.
00:53 ben_vulpes stormy, with a chance of packeting
00:53 ben_vulpes gonna have to revert and watch, or provision a mess of boxen
~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
02:13 mircea_popescu aaand in other humanities : a. j. ayer was once in the livingroom of one fernando sanchez on west 57th st, hanging out with a buncha young hussies/models when one girl came arunnin' complaining that her friend was being assaulted in the bedroom. ayer went in, where he found mike tyson atop an obscure south london model. when the (at the time 70yo) oxford professor asked him to quit it, mike tyson wanted to know if he knows wh
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02:13 mircea_popescu o the fuck he is!!! ie, the world's heavyweight champion. ayer explained that he's the ex wykeham professor of logic, and since they're both pre-eminent in their respective fields, how about they indulge in discourse rather than intercourse. oddly enough tyson accepted, and naomi campbell slipped out -- apparently undamaged enough by the experience to actually do those not-even-terrible shots with madonna.
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~ 4 hours 46 minutes ~
07:00 * mircea_popescu taking off on a little trip, cya all manana.
07:07 shinohai Bon Voyage mircea_popescu .... enjoy!
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~
08:48 shinohai lulzmining: https://imgur.com/Fo8rZQi
~ 25 minutes ~
09:14 shinohai !~blocks
09:14 jhvh1 shinohai: 501273
09:20 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
09:20 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 15700.09, vol: 14030.97103622 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 15699.0, vol: 49838.33077808 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 15916.9, vol: 3761.92367122 | Volume-weighted last average: 15711.3466183
09:22 BingoBoingo Ah, such a gloriously obvious pattern emerges. Waterfalls when the banks are closed. Turns out the speed of the crashing is limited to a somewhat sane pace by the difficulty of getting rid of non-ecu fiat takens
09:27 BingoBoingo Later today still more intense language and cultural immersion scheduled.
09:32 BingoBoingo The accountant is giving me the expectation the the process of transforming my self into a business will compelete this week allowing bank access to follow soon after.
09:33 * BingoBoingo very much enjoying the Lode lulz
09:36 diana_coman !!key esthlos
09:36 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/EDB93AD2CAB28398010B46D025C71657FDA71DC2.asc
~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~
10:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759152 << not up to 'tip' yet. it did walk 3000+ blox in the night, however. which before patch sometimes took week+.
10:41 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 05:36 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: let me know if your aggression patch was enough to stay at the tip of the chain, as it wasn't for my node.
10:41 asciilifeform the old behaviour was indefensibly insane, wtf, why is boot time 'special', for fuck's sake.
10:42 asciilifeform as for nodes at the 'tip', the path of chinesium through layers of prb is a lottery, and i suspect that attempting to measure the effect of a trb patch on said behaviour is doomed to astrologize over noise
10:46 diana_coman !!v F86B917C8A985F0F4DEEA86779F31E186369CD2305830051D630044D5969FE5F
10:46 deedbot diana_coman rated esthlos 1 << He seems to really want to learn.
10:46 diana_coman !!seen esthlos
10:46 deedbot 2017/12/22 02:03:16 <esthlos> BingoBoingo: yes, I think it's time for that
10:50 asciilifeform ben_vulpes et al : i think it is worth elaborating what it means when saying 'my node is behind N blox'. what it means, if spoken properly, is that you know of some node, somewhere, that appears to have moarblox than yours. focus should be on 'did my node ask it for nextblock? what, if anything, did it answer? why ?' rather than the quite uselessly unspecific 'mah nodez are behind!111'
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10:50 asciilifeform if what is meant is 'i looked on shitchain.info and saw a higher number than from my getinfo' should SAY that.
10:52 asciilifeform ... and also say what happened when you try and plug yer node into this or that 'un-behind' one.
10:54 asciilifeform if, alternatively, it meant 'my block height hasn't moved for a week', again should be specific, SAY that, and post yer log
10:55 asciilifeform so that questions like 'did it even have net access for that week', to 'has it ASKED anyone for the next block, or just sat there with mouth open? ' and 'did anyone ANSWER, when asked, or just shat forth mempool crapola and bastards 50 blox ahead' can be answered.
10:57 asciilifeform i get it, in the 'organic' system that is a live p2p net, proper controlled experiments are quite impossible. this however does NOT mean that one oughta freely give in to urge to climb back up the tree, becoming a monkey again, and think in voodoo criteria. even if the circumstances heavily encourage this , by failing to reward rational thought ( see mircea_popescu's thread with the italian fishermen !! , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-
10:57 asciilifeform 12-02#1745723 )
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10:58 asciilifeform grrrrrrrr http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745723
10:58 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 22:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the sea is rich ; but the fisherman's stuck playing a loser game.
11:01 asciilifeform don't be the fisherman who, say, 'i washed my hands after shitting and that day caught no fish, i think i'ma not ever again wash hands' etc.
~ 17 minutes ~
11:19 asciilifeform meanwhile, in heathendom, http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7724#comment-1912925
11:22 asciilifeform in other lulzy backlinx from asciilifeform's www, http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2944&p=57778#p57778 << 6502 enthusiasts , presumably some were not awake in the '80s-'90s , try to rederive carry-bit formula. d00d links asciilifeform's. which is hilarious because on what, do you suppose, asciilifeform originally studied...
11:33 asciilifeform http://www.worldtruth.mx/mathematics/link-id_34145/ << pinoys neversleep(tm)(r)
11:34 * asciilifeform shakes out last crumbs from spam trap, bolts it back into place
11:46 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to snarf: 1) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch2_logicals.vpatch.peterl.sig 2) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch3_shifts.vpatch.peterl.sig
11:46 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
11:48 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to snarf: 3) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.peterl.sig . ty
11:48 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
11:55 asciilifeform congrats to PeterL, the first (and currently only) ch4 graduate.
~ 19 minutes ~
12:14 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759185 << i sometimes wonder if there's some clever way to link back split posts (i mean in cases where urls are lost, perhaps by looking at cases where 250 byte message, followed by same person within ~~<3s or somesuch)
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12:14 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 15:57 asciilifeform: 12-02#1745723 )
12:15 asciilifeform phf: imho more correct pill would be to patch e.g. znc. or better still, the client, to warn of splits
12:16 asciilifeform elaborately diddling logs is not The Right Thing. for one thing, it will cause logtrons to fall out of sync.
12:16 asciilifeform ( with each other, and with naive logs that everybody keeps on own hdd )
12:16 phf well, i'm thinking illumination, which has been sop for btcbase, but yes, since split happens on client anyway (i'm using ircii right now, and it annoyingly doesn't warn OR split)
12:18 phf the other thing that i wanted to do is add xref for those inline quotes `phf: asciilifeform: grrrrr ... << kek` that people like to do
12:18 asciilifeform oohyea the worst of the worst, will neither warn nor split, they swallow
12:18 asciilifeform silently.
12:18 asciilifeform specifically thinking of the crapple ones (e.g. 'palaver')
12:19 asciilifeform somehow, on their planet this is considered acceptable.
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12:20 phf i suspect ircii simply predates usability. back when men counted each character, because bell telephone company metered bauds
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12:21 asciilifeform dunno, all of the artifacts i recall from those days, made it easier for operator to avoid this accidental bankruptcy , not harder.
12:27 phf ircii questions are also by the way impossible to search for. no way to tell either google or ddg to not be helpful and also mirc, irssi, etc.
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12:28 asciilifeform this type of 'helpfulness' is pestilential nao
12:28 asciilifeform 'did you mean to search for 'lipstick' instead?? we're gonna search for lipstick instead!'
12:29 phf i blame wolfram
12:29 asciilifeform long pre-dates wolframism
12:30 phf j'accuse...!
12:31 asciilifeform wolfram surely deserves whipping post regardless. ( he is to be counted, imho, right up there with the greatest american charlatans, with josephsmith, edison, gates, et al )
12:32 asciilifeform ( see http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-09#1094257 and many elsewheres )
12:32 a111 Logged on 2015-04-09 21:21 ascii_field: anyway, i happen to know more than a reasonable man ought to, about wolframism
12:34 phf early tex papers knuth talks about putting this or that formula into macsyma, but then from some point he fully switches to mathematica. breaks me heart
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12:34 asciilifeform hey he also switched to winblowz
12:35 asciilifeform but heart did not break then ? why not? i'm curious
12:35 phf he did? i thought he uses mac, he posted his keyboard layouts
12:35 asciilifeform in all fairness i can't recall how i came to think that he did.
12:35 asciilifeform so perhaps not
12:36 phf he was using unix up until early 2000s, and then switched to mac (i think for old people reasons)
12:36 asciilifeform but gotta say, there is not so much distance left, to winblowz.
12:36 asciilifeform from cook-os.
12:39 phf but to answer the question, i think i don't particularly mind the subtrate. man does computations, i wouldn't be too concerned if he were to switch to ipad even, because he'd still be hand writing algorithms with a certain detachment to the concerns of extras
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12:40 asciilifeform the interesting bit is that this disconnect, 'can use ipad but still do honest mathematics', doesn't show any serious symptoms of existing
12:40 asciilifeform i'll point out that everything for which knuth is famous, was done before senility and macdows
12:41 asciilifeform ( see also the not wholly-irrelevant http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455456 item )
12:41 a111 Logged on 2016-04-22 04:34 asciilifeform: rmans really got to England my acquaintance of the Cafe Royal would soon have found his painting deteriorating, even if the Gestapo had let him alone. And when the lid is taken off Europe, I believe one of the things that will surprise us will be to find how little worthwhile writing of any kind -- even such things as diaries, for instance -- has been produced in secret under the dictators.'
12:45 asciilifeform i dun see any fundamental reason why it ~could not~ exist. but also dun see any signs that it in fact does.
12:48 asciilifeform iirc knuth showed first sign of fatal weakness when he failed to put up resistance against what the latex people had done.
12:48 phf it's hard to say how much knuth changed over years, without knowing the man, and i don't think "for which knuth is famous" is any kind of measure. he's certainly gotten old, but i think he might also be constituionally incapable of participating in a consensus.
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12:49 asciilifeform ( and i gotta wonder whether lamport himself was an active perpetrator, or passive victim similar to knuth himself, when the 3GB of liquishit began to form )
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12:51 asciilifeform phf: given specifically as i do not know the man -- all i'm left with is 'the mathematics for which he was famous'
12:51 asciilifeform which was a going concern in '70s-'80s, while today it is a '70-'80s memory, strictly
12:51 asciilifeform afaik.
12:52 asciilifeform entirely possible that the man's chief sin was simply the failure to find worthy successor. he left tex to the maggots, and the result is exactly the typical result. ( just as e.g. stalin ended up leaving his 'tex' to the maggots, with similar result )
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12:52 phf we'll he's a millenarian, he's primarily documenting the fundamental findings of computer science
12:53 asciilifeform the problem of trying to be 'millenarian' with earthling human lifespan...
12:53 asciilifeform !!up BigTexasBingo
12:53 deedbot BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
12:53 BigTexasBingo https://youtu.be/wefRJVooXHQ Make Great Great Again pls
12:54 phf well, really, the problem has been discussed here many times, that you can't tmsr without wot. "successor" is just a special case of that, which, again, lacking mechanisms, is likewise lacking
12:54 asciilifeform phf: right. i did not say that his problem was readily solvable. but it remains -- problem.
12:54 asciilifeform at the very least could've emphasized the absence of a successor.
12:54 BigTexasBingo Anyways knuth problem seems insufficient threat of hambre
12:54 asciilifeform BigTexasBingo: expand?
12:55 phf asciilifeform: he did though, by making it very explicit that there can't be a successor.
12:55 BigTexasBingo When I consider what the next right thing is, hambre or the threat thereof provides motivation to not be stupid and Windows
12:55 asciilifeform phf: apparently lamport missed this memo
12:56 asciilifeform BigTexasBingo: to old folx, hunger is not motivator for action, but for depression/death and, often, quisling
12:56 asciilifeform hunger is motivator for the young, who have good battery charge
12:56 BigTexasBingo That's what kids are for
12:57 asciilifeform afaik knuth did not grow any , at least none such that would suffer from the delusion that they are fit to succeed him
12:58 BigTexasBingo Ah
12:59 BigTexasBingo Not much to do then except present carrot/stick/africa trilemma
12:59 phf asciilifeform: well, be that lamport, or someone else, the memo wasn't missed, but made to disappear through consensus. everyone knows that there's only one TeX, but of course "modern" "tex" is latex with luatex engine, etc. etc.
13:00 asciilifeform BigTexasBingo: the art of 'drowning like a gentleman', i.e. to behave honourably and with grace in the face of certain defeat, death, obscurity -- is largely lost in modern folx
13:00 asciilifeform phf: evidently
13:02 BigTexasBingo Perhaps.
13:02 BigTexasBingo Brb, more immersion
13:03 phf knuth managed to do a lot to keep tex what it is, given that he's essentially a pacifist academic. there aren't many other examples (common lisp, ada) where preservation has been taken to this extreme.
13:03 asciilifeform BigTexasBingo: ever seen this photo : https://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/0/6/6/5346660.jpg ?
13:04 phf relatedly, i managed to get latest version (jan 2014) version to produce a dvi out of tex.tex from first principles. i used someone else's port to gnu pascal
13:04 asciilifeform ^ burgomeister of leipzig. apr 20, 1945.
13:05 asciilifeform phf: neato.
13:06 phf i'll definitely document it though, because the process is arcane, and not at all automated.
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~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
14:25 shinohai !~lookup irccloud.com
14:25 jhvh1 shinohai: 104.25.54.39
14:39 asciilifeform !!up toohigh
14:39 deedbot toohigh voiced for 30 minutes.
14:42 asciilifeform in other vintage heathen lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin apparently.
14:43 asciilifeform no prizes for guessing what ain't in there, lol
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14:45 asciilifeform !!up l0de
14:45 deedbot l0de voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 43 minutes ~
15:28 phf hmm, dis ircii keeps losing connection and then not telling me anything. this like some girlfriend shit
15:29 asciilifeform lol
15:33 shinohai xD
~ 18 minutes ~
15:51 lobbes <asciilifeform> [19:42:10] in other vintage heathen lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin apparently. << "Before disappearing from any involvement in bitcoin, Nakamoto in a sense handed over the reins to developer Gavin Andresen" lol, didjaknow?
15:53 lobbes but so it goes, those on that ship will 'unhappen' into their watery grave
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
17:06 ben_vulpes !!up punto
17:06 deedbot punto voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 2 hours 10 minutes ~
19:16 shinohai For BingoBoingo, lest he forget the lulz of his tierra nativo http://archive.is/UYlRg
19:26 shinohai http://archive.is/EwgIC <<< US must wire $5000 via western union before the sale can proceed tho
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~ 29 minutes ~
19:55 asciilifeform meanwhile, in an apparent imitation of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-12#1749817 : http://destery.info/cidal/mpex-bitcoin-nupe.php <<< aaaaand, very similarly, returns ENTIRELY different turd to archive.is. orig. screenshitted, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpex_flavoured_spamola.jpg for posterity.
19:55 a111 Logged on 2017-12-12 15:42 asciilifeform: meanwhile in pinoy spamola, http://peltebesining.tk/giwe/asic-bitcoin-miner-schematic-1634.php << image-embeds asciilifeform's lispm keyboard schematic as 'asic miner' . bonus : if loaded via archive.is, gives entirely ~different~ spamola, prolly based on ip block
~ 18 minutes ~
20:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759179 << when i use it, i mean that my foremost node is ahead by delta.
20:13 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 15:50 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : i think it is worth elaborating what it means when saying 'my node is behind N blox'. what it means, if spoken properly, is that you know of some node, somewhere, that appears to have moarblox than yours. focus should be on 'did my node ask it for nextblock? what, if anything, did it answer? why ?' rather than the quite uselessly unspecific 'mah nodez are behind!111'
20:14 asciilifeform that's even worse. if my nodes were failing to give EACH OTHER their best known blocks, i'd skin'em alive until found why
20:15 mircea_popescu i know why lol
20:15 asciilifeform ( is what 'wires' came out of )
20:16 asciilifeform in related noose, zoolag covered ~20k blox in 4days. and looks set to fully sync by tomorrow morning.
20:17 asciilifeform ( with 'aggression' )
20:17 mircea_popescu incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too.
20:17 asciilifeform neato!
20:21 asciilifeform and, observe, this was without any such prbisms as 'headers-first'ism etc.
20:22 mircea_popescu sure.
20:22 asciilifeform none of it, i suspect, was ever needed.
20:22 mircea_popescu i dun think anyone intellectually honest still holds any notion that the prb crew is in any way working to fix or improve bitcoin.
20:22 asciilifeform wasn't, even in 2012.
20:25 asciilifeform !~later tell BingoBoingo where was that hoster that'll host peculiarly small boxes , that you were using back in the day ? i have a buncha http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754247 that fit exactly those dimensions
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20:25 a111 Logged on 2017-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: they are widely sold as surplus today, about fiddybux ( naturally diskless )
20:25 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
20:26 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
20:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform turns out you have a lot of fans.
20:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759198 << look at cases where a message that overflows the buffer has the last word leading by http of any line and the first word of the next line include any /
20:32 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:14 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759185 << i sometimes wonder if there's some clever way to link back split posts (i mean in cases where urls are lost, perhaps by looking at cases where 250 byte message, followed by same person within ~~<3s or somesuch)
20:32 mircea_popescu should cover most cases.
20:33 mircea_popescu can offer it in the logotron as a [?] item, ie message is "blablabla http://someu" and next line goes "rl.com/hurddurr" and your log shows the line as "blablabla http://someu [ http://someurl.com/hurddurr ?]" or perhaps in shorter format, "blablabla http://someu [<a href=http://someurl.com/hurddurr>?</a>]"
20:34 mircea_popescu not sure it's worth actually getting this anal, but w/e
20:34 mircea_popescu just as good as google ai (tm)
20:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759208 << i consider it perfectly acceptable ; if crapple software were improved to swallow 100% of their luserbase's output as opposed to merely 1% or w/e it is now it'd be even more acceptable.
20:36 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:19 asciilifeform: somehow, on their planet this is considered acceptable.
20:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759209 << no fucking way it's that old. 2000s item
20:38 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:20 phf: i suspect ircii simply predates usability. back when men counted each character, because bell telephone company metered bauds
20:40 mircea_popescu this isn't fucking irc2
20:41 phf nah, ircii is 1980s, 2.1.4 is 1990s release
20:41 mircea_popescu are we talking irssi or irc2 ?
20:41 phf later
20:41 mircea_popescu ah ok
20:41 mircea_popescu dunno why i read irssi
20:42 mircea_popescu particularly lulzy in light of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759211
20:42 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:27 phf: ircii questions are also by the way impossible to search for. no way to tell either google or ddg to not be helpful and also mirc, irssi, etc.
20:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759229 << jesus christ clucking in algebra on that clunker of a kbd...
20:44 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:39 phf: but to answer the question, i think i don't particularly mind the subtrate. man does computations, i wouldn't be too concerned if he were to switch to ipad even, because he'd still be hand writing algorithms with a certain detachment to the concerns of extras
20:44 mircea_popescu i'd rather piss it in fresh snow.
20:45 phf you can use ipad with a bluetooth keyboard!!1
20:47 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759236 << the problem is rather the ability to tell people [as a fine example, one's own sons] that they have failed miserably, and here's the small stiletto that'll wash somewhat of the miserable stain they placed on your name.
20:47 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:48 phf: it's hard to say how much knuth changed over years, without knowing the man, and i don't think "for which knuth is famous" is any kind of measure. he's certainly gotten old, but i think he might also be constituionally incapable of participating in a consensus.
20:47 mircea_popescu absent that... you're typing on a bluepad itooth regardless.
20:48 mircea_popescu this very basic confrontation of cain is an utterly necessary, fundamental building block of respirable cosmos.
20:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759237 << have you ever wondered, like prepubescent mp wondered, why all these various animals on nature show never fucking kill the parasytes like you'd squish a flea ?
20:50 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:49 asciilifeform: ( and i gotta wonder whether lamport himself was an active perpetrator, or passive victim similar to knuth himself, when the 3GB of liquishit began to form )
20:51 mircea_popescu obviously parasite exists irl specifically and strictly because the victim fails to perceive it, in other words the organism's existence is simple proof of the other organism's failure to perceive and no more.
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20:53 mircea_popescu i am convinced that all these useless foreigners had not an inkling of an idea that they're trading their ancestral land for the sack of shiny baubles, simply no conception whatsoever. "what, there's something wrong with codebase increase ?" they might ask, with all the endearing pathetism of well meaning senility, in the same tone as they might ask "where am i ? could you take me home ?", lost at a crowded crossroads.
21:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759241 << it's not altogether clear to me soviet union wasn't continued exactly in the spirit and direction of "the great father".
21:01 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 17:52 asciilifeform: entirely possible that the man's chief sin was simply the failure to find worthy successor. he left tex to the maggots, and the result is exactly the typical result. ( just as e.g. stalin ended up leaving his 'tex' to the maggots, with similar result )
21:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how's that
21:09 asciilifeform can debate styles of management , etc. but for instance stalin did not sell natural resources. successors -- sold. even today, ru runs 100% 'on the pipe', like saud
21:10 asciilifeform the inheriting of the master's house by a gaggle of idjits , former bootlicks, was a palpable thing, and with palpable consequences incl. the cn split.
21:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759338 << dog very much perceives the flea. just like zek perceives the louse. but what exactly is he to do? either of them.
21:12 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 01:51 mircea_popescu: obviously parasite exists irl specifically and strictly because the victim fails to perceive it, in other words the organism's existence is simple proof of the other organism's failure to perceive and no more.
21:13 mircea_popescu this is somewhat dubious. ww2 engagement not "sold ru resources ie mirvnik fat" but "invested" ?
21:14 mircea_popescu and no, t-cell doth not perceive hiv virus, nor fish the polyp on its gills etc.
21:14 mircea_popescu dog, maybe. then again dog eats shit does not perceive ascaris etc
21:14 asciilifeform ww2 wasn't exactly a voluntary transaction
21:15 asciilifeform re t cell -- not all parasites are perceptible. point was that stealth is not the only strategy used by parasite
21:15 mircea_popescu this is an open issue. "on the pipe" also not voluntary txn
21:15 mircea_popescu china HAD TO trade its mirvnik fat, and it's what powered its conversion from ~india to ~us.
21:15 asciilifeform it is if you have a stalin, i.e. a firm power vertical.
21:16 mircea_popescu russia idem had to. much less profitably, because turns out torturing your fellow countryman is better for the country than torturing the environment.
21:16 asciilifeform if not , then 0 agency, like corpse. and fat will be rendered
21:16 mircea_popescu optimal investment in the other (as teh sartrean notion) is putting them into pain.
21:16 asciilifeform nao this, is so.
21:17 mircea_popescu this is the fundamental counterintuitive coernerstone of civilisation : always better to beat the wife and children than to beat the walls and fields.
21:17 mircea_popescu but...
21:17 asciilifeform ( much has been written on subj of how post-mongol ru continued same administrative style etc. there's sumthing to it. )
21:17 mircea_popescu rather.
21:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759271 << please do.
21:32 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 18:06 phf: i'll definitely document it though, because the process is arcane, and not at all automated.
21:32 mircea_popescu !~lookup chat.freenode.net
21:32 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 130.185.232.126
21:32 mircea_popescu !~lookup irc.freenode.net
21:32 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 130.185.232.126
21:32 mircea_popescu shinohai nice.
21:33 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759277 << any actual history of bitcoin, as opposed to the usual "and then hillary clinton really won the elections and global warming etcetera" ?
21:33 a111 Logged on 2017-12-27 19:43 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing what ain't in there, lol
21:35 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759288 << bwahahaha right on,\
21:35 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 00:26 shinohai: http://archive.is/EwgIC <<< US must wire $5000 via western union before the sale can proceed tho
~ 23 minutes ~
21:58 shinohai ah mircea_popescu lookup has been there a while, but i think i forgot to have pete_dushenski push it to his bots page updates.
↖
22:00 shinohai http://archive.is/VuSSm <<< Autists literally made this happen. Their logo is a fidget spinner, ffs
22:07 asciilifeform shinohai: can haz not-videoturd ??
22:08 shinohai heh i got txt on screen, no video
~ 23 minutes ~
22:31 shinohai http://archive.is/vAfjT <<< now THIS is the lulziest thing, to me, of the entire week.
↖ ↖
22:35 phf heh, i was prepared to be disappointed, but the op, as they say, delivered
22:43 asciilifeform https://archive.is/fowAf << from samerag, moarlulz
22:43 asciilifeform 'Real price of bitcoin could be $0.00, warns Morgan Stanley' << didjaknow.
22:44 asciilifeform ( they must've asked buffett... )
22:50 mircea_popescu real price of dollars is almost certainly 0.00000000 bitcoin, however.
22:50 mircea_popescu anyway. let them "could be" and "we said to ourselves and then believed" and so on until the rapetruck comes.
22:50 mircea_popescu not like there's any further utility in the fiatard lands.
22:52 asciilifeform pretty slow rapetruck... ( is the rape phree if the truck is late ? like american pizza in 1980s )
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