Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-08-22 | 2018-08-24 → ↓
00:44 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/80808/ << Trilema - This is Trilema post #80808 and I'm running out of passible titles.
~ 2 hours 19 minutes ~
03:03 ave1 !Q later tell trinque, my comment seems to be stuck in transit; http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/#comment-23
03:04 ave1 !Q later tell trinque, my comment seems to be stuck in transit; http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/#comment-23
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03:04 lobbesbot ave1: The operation succeeded.
~ 2 hours 54 minutes ~
05:58 ave1 !Q later tell phf, I found the raw logs here http://btcbase.org/log-raw/, this go back to 2016. Do you also have the raw logs before #trilema? and could I download these somewhere (I tried to search the log but, so far seems to be looking for a pin in a haystack)
05:58 lobbesbot ave1: The operation succeeded.
~ 3 hours 32 minutes ~
09:30 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/08/spanish-guardia-civil-shuts-down-outlaw-environmentalist-turtle-breeding-operation/ << Qntra - Spanish Guardia Civil Shuts Down Outlaw Environmentalist Turtle Breeding Operation
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
10:44 mod6 mornin'
~ 25 minutes ~
11:09 BingoBoingo Mornin'
~ 31 minutes ~
11:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i was thinking of your puzzler: if you want always optimal path, it afaik reduces to A* search. actually quite similar to pcb routing.
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11:41 mircea_popescu ikr.
11:42 asciilifeform the odds/evens aspect gives it a 'nim' flavour , so there might be a seekrit optimization..
11:43 mircea_popescu if you recall ye olde http://trilema.com/2014/the-miracles-that-matter/ (especially in the light of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759562 style arguments), it should be obvious this is a sort of private mp worship
11:43 a111 Logged on 2017-12-28 14:25 mircea_popescu: there's an imbecile's view of "intelligent design" being floated about (mostly by people who are looking for a strawman, and reconstructed by them for this purpose). here's the correct version :
11:43 mircea_popescu "how the fuck is it that i can restate alf's fg problems in terms of a mmorpg ?" and so on.
11:44 asciilifeform ( to draw it as a graph, lay out only moves that 'conserve mass' )
11:44 mircea_popescu as the perdurant reader no doubt noticed, i'm a great restationist.
11:44 asciilifeform hey arithmetic worx on apples and bricks alike
11:44 mircea_popescu ikr!
11:44 mircea_popescu this, incidentallty, being the only metaphysics question worth asking
11:44 mircea_popescu none of the usual bullshit, "why something rather than nothing" "what is god" bla bla bla.
11:44 asciilifeform 'the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics'(tm)
11:45 mircea_popescu no. WHY arithmetics works on bricks and apples alike ?
11:45 mircea_popescu there's no fucking reason "directly available". not all sets gotta be the same kinds of sets.
11:45 asciilifeform ( https://archive.is/OPdaD << the old piece of that title, for anyone who cares )
11:45 Mocky mircea_popescu, i just added a comment to puzzler blog post but seems cut off mid way
11:46 Mocky oh prolly my use of angle brackts for arrows ->
11:46 mircea_popescu do not do that.
11:47 Mocky we need more angle brackts
11:47 mircea_popescu html see ?
11:47 mircea_popescu anyway, repost your whole thing and ima delete the abortive attempt
11:47 asciilifeform pretty sure i stepped on this mine at least once
11:48 asciilifeform inbandism!111
11:48 mircea_popescu what can you do, provide pre-structured comment fields ?
11:48 phf asciilifeform: beat me to it, re puzzler as graph traversal
11:49 lobbesbot phf: Sent 5 hours and 50 minutes ago: <ave1> found the raw logs here http://btcbase.org/log-raw/, this go back to 2016. Do you also have the raw logs before #trilema? and could I download these somewhere (I tried to search the log but, so far seems to be looking for a pin in a haystack)
11:49 mircea_popescu imo this is a fine example to teach the failure of "no inband!!!"
11:49 Mocky ok, done. thx
11:50 mircea_popescu phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-25#1829555 etc!
11:50 a111 Logged on 2018-06-25 22:10 asciilifeform: but this is 'obvious to alert reader'(tm)(r)
11:50 asciilifeform phf, mircea_popescu : i half-expected 'lol noshit, any puzzler can be written as A* search, this is copout' lol
11:51 phf asciilifeform: well, i suppose _i_ was expected to say "oh it's just a SAT"
11:52 mircea_popescu :[
11:53 mircea_popescu i mean :p lel
11:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in principle this type of inbandism is curable, with simple pill, lookahead parser -- if not ~actual~ html, comment is processed as plain text. rather than the 'oops here's a < so i'ma drift off into stratosphere' existing nonsense
11:53 mircea_popescu mp-wp patches welcome!
11:54 asciilifeform this item's actually on my list for if/when i live to get to wpism patches
11:54 mircea_popescu imo current parser right thing -- it removes all non-permitted tags, which includes all non-terminated tags.
11:54 mircea_popescu how about people learn to write proper html for once ?
11:54 mircea_popescu support for this bs is how html soup became a thing.
11:54 asciilifeform escapes for < and > ?
11:55 mircea_popescu you are talking to a computer ; if you open a tag you close it ; nobody gives a shit what you ~thought~ the alphabet meant.
11:55 asciilifeform this gets very unpleasant, very quickly, sorta why blogs with code snippets are stuck with wp plugin crapola
11:55 mircea_popescu support for they naive is not worth having. know what talking to a computer means as part of your existing in the world, which is to say, outsider of the harem where some slave spawned you.
11:55 mircea_popescu trilema has code snippets no plugins crapola.
11:56 asciilifeform i'ma have to read this wonder
11:59 mircea_popescu Mocky answered ; prepare to mindblown ?
12:03 Mocky aha, I suspected something like this would surface
12:04 Mocky completely unknown to me
12:04 phf ave1: ah thank you, i forgot that i kept the two separate. the folder is not exposed, but i'll merge the two together. there's also an even older (spotty) log from apr 2012 to oct 2013, that includes pre #b-a #bitcoin-otc content, that's available through btcbase, but exists only in xchat (?) log format, that i parse
~ 26 minutes ~
12:30 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/08/consumer-spy-software-left-piles-of-data-in-exposed-bucket/ << Qntra - Consumer Spy Software Left Piles Of Data In Exposed Bucket
12:31 asciilifeform Mocky: http://trilema.com/2018/algorithmics-problem-seeking-experts/#comment-126542
~ 21 minutes ~
12:52 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/08/intel-adds-anti-benchmarking-clause-to-licenses-for-microcode-updates/ << Qntra - Intel Adds "Anti Benchmarking" Clause To Licenses For Microcode Updates
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12:54 asciilifeform lol!!
12:54 asciilifeform whip, whip that hellespont!
13:01 mircea_popescu heh, remember when "car manufacturers", got dekulakized by the pantsuit, resulting in some shit packaged in ye olde "mercedes" "wv" etc boxes, which then didn't work worth a shit ?
13:01 asciilifeform the diesel thing ? aha
13:02 mircea_popescu but remember when politburo decided shit sandwich just as good as imperialistic-bourgeois decadent cured meats ?
13:02 asciilifeform apparently the vw people weren't quite 'smart' enuff to try an' prohibit mileage benchmark
13:02 mircea_popescu and pravda wasn't allowed to publish benchmarks anymoar ?
13:03 asciilifeform i can picture the intel execs, golf club in one hand and martini in other, 'why didn't we think of this before' 'hey next time let's not just prohibit benchmark, but only if answer isn't what we like' 'brilliant, this will be at next board agenda'
13:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik the car people still required to publish 'mpg' in usa. the konsoomer simply told to suck it.
13:05 asciilifeform ( auto still elementarily includes odometer an' fuel gauge, can't exactly hide the figure )
13:06 mircea_popescu speaking of which, picture also the morons making all the "smart" airport humiliation technology, golf club in one hand, martini in another, trying to figure out how their entire hr dept imploded over the weekend and what to do about it./
13:06 asciilifeform ah the http://trilema.com/2018/the-leak/ people
13:06 mircea_popescu the very same.
13:07 asciilifeform since when is 1 chix a 'dept'
13:07 mircea_popescu since america ended.
13:08 mircea_popescu the ineluctable fate of dead empire, stuck pretending, is that everything's a succession of single points of failure.
13:08 asciilifeform so they sit for a day without a secretary until hire new one
13:09 mircea_popescu lel.
13:09 mircea_popescu outsiders can't readily appreciate the sheer POVERTY of all these chosen sons.
13:11 asciilifeform erry slave galley i've ever toiled on, solved this problem by... hiring secretary from the actively-imploding firm next door
13:11 asciilifeform ( i imagine, triggering a kind of domino cascade, whoknows )
13:12 asciilifeform they move, like electron hole in semiconductor.
13:14 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Catch is if they hire the wrong secretary, they are the next firm to implode
13:15 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 99% of what 'hr' chix does , in american firm, is filling out usg.mandated crapola for new hires. not exactly reactor control.
13:15 asciilifeform trained dolphin could prolly manage.
13:17 BingoBoingo Well, hr chix are also responsible for making a hostile work environment by promoting 500 species of harrasments
13:17 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: typically that's at large galleys where there's 4 or 5 of'em
13:18 asciilifeform per branch office.
13:19 BingoBoingo Well, that's probably why the condensed their HR department to this single HR operator.
13:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you have no fucking idea.
13:19 asciilifeform small firms get to outsource the ritual to corps of professional priests, they mail in the mandatory oaths, slide decks, etc .
13:19 BingoBoingo I can't imagine there is a surplus of HR chix capable of working alone or in sufficiently small groups to avoid creating a culture of drama.
13:19 mircea_popescu no, seriously. this is the live-on-boat thing all over again.
13:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i can only comment re what i saw personally.
13:20 mircea_popescu do you realise that ~the whole item is powered out of"clerical error" ? "you put wrong x on wrong color form, now you owe six figures" ?
13:20 mircea_popescu sold house at wrong time, added to "401k" wrong amount, bla bla bla.
13:21 mircea_popescu most of these people ~are poor~. single clerical error in hr can destructure a firm through the simple procedure of "director" is now "inmate" as can not afford to pay tax bills ?
13:21 asciilifeform that'd be in the cpa, not hr
13:21 mircea_popescu there's 0 slack on one hand ; and the whole thing is powered on "mistake".
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13:21 asciilifeform errywhere i've seen with own eyes, these were separate desks
13:21 mircea_popescu heh.
13:21 mircea_popescu what "cpa" ? hr does everything. payroll, relocation, you name it.
13:22 asciilifeform and cpa is a contractor, and theoretically liable for 'oops, wrong form'
13:22 mircea_popescu you are talking of a world that only exists in your own imagination.
13:22 mircea_popescu what, who ? deloitte ? liable ? REALLY ?
13:22 mircea_popescu or what, ernst & young ? "oh, they did it" ?
13:22 asciilifeform on paper, lol
13:22 mircea_popescu get out of here.
13:23 asciilifeform in reality , obviously 'we have note from hitler, and you don't, suck it'
13:23 mircea_popescu did http://trilema.com/2013/our-emperor-deliver-us/#selection-39.330-39.450 read "and law firm is liable for difference, which it'll pay" ?
13:24 asciilifeform last i knew , they were paper-liable for 'coarse errors of pilotage' strictly (e.g. 'wrong form wrong time' )
13:24 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/08/reality-winner-gets-63-month-prison-stay-as-prize-for-poor-leaking-hygiene/ << Qntra - "Reality Winner" Gets 63 Month Prison Stay As Prize For Poor Leaking Hygiene
13:25 asciilifeform at any rate, if mircea_popescu tells that there's a boiler room scamop where the hr chix is also the accountant and the council etc -- i'ma believe him, at this point i'm ready to believe plenty.
13:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Yraem/?raw=true
13:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: got it, interesting
13:33 asciilifeform gnarly.
13:37 asciilifeform and indeed usgulag is powered by not only printing press but confiscating savings from ~randomly-picked engineers, little-league 'ceo', etc . a la mr stack.
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13:37 asciilifeform for that matter asciilifeform's been on receiving end of it personally.
13:39 mircea_popescu someone's gotta pay for all the women sitting around dreaming shit up.
13:39 asciilifeform [insert the mandatory m: 'what the fuck are you still doing there, are you a tard' a: 'i dun have useful skills for outside the fence' thread here ! ]
13:39 * mircea_popescu shall bbl.
13:52 asciilifeform see also http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-30#737870 (tm)(r)('donald duck', 1942)
13:52 a111 Logged on 2014-06-30 02:26 asciilifeform: 'Iz this Nutzi land so good / Would you leave it if you could / Ja, this Nutzi land is good / Ve would leave it if we could!'
13:57 asciilifeform i'll add, usg learned from ye olde ussr -- the latter was equally efficient at preventing plebes from accumulating escape-powering capital, but less so at preventing 'marketability' outside the barbed wire. hence the 1st wave of emigres who went into waiting arms of natostan industry, academia. but current-day usa, they patched this hole, nao you gotta have some pretty serious world-class talent ( e.g. concert pianist ), or at the ve
13:57 asciilifeform ry least cuntlips and mp-approved figure, to get properly and truly loose.
13:58 asciilifeform fwiw asciilifeform is not the only 'tard' tuned in, last i knew mod6 , trinque , ben_vulpes , lobbes , also still behind the wire.
13:59 asciilifeform i can't speak for what particularly they're manacled to, only for self, tho.
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13:59 phf 1st of emigres to go straight into natostan * were serious world-class talent, others worked cashier jobs
13:59 asciilifeform phf: aha
13:59 asciilifeform i've met both, this is not a seekrit afaik
14:00 asciilifeform there was a short transition where 'ok we'll give you professorship, but not tenured' but it was short.
14:05 asciilifeform i suppose i oughta have included phf in the list of 'i have nfi what ~they~'re still doing in natoreich'
14:06 asciilifeform ( iirc phf mentioned even having a working ru passport )
14:08 BingoBoingo And we have received 5 1TB SSD's.
~ 16 minutes ~
14:25 mod6 hey! nice!
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
15:32 mats https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=153504937925732&w=2
15:40 asciilifeform mats: see lulthread http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843831
15:40 a111 Logged on 2018-08-23 16:52 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/intel-adds-anti-benchmarking-clause-to-licenses-for-microcode-updates/ << Qntra - Intel Adds "Anti Benchmarking" Clause To Licenses For Microcode Updates
15:41 asciilifeform the notion that 'intel with fixes' will have process isolation, is hilarious
15:42 asciilifeform there's 9000+ nobus, and the ceremonial 'fix' for 3 or 4 makes no diff
15:46 asciilifeform anybody who actually relies on process isolation on x86, of whatever kind, is 100% fucked, dun matter what kind of mind games he plays with himself or his misfortunate customers
~ 59 minutes ~
16:45 Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843778 I initially ruled out A* for lack of admissible heuristic. maybe asciilifeform can see O(1) (or even O(n) ) heuristic to estimate remaining steps in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525884 without ever overestimating
16:45 a111 Logged on 2018-08-23 15:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was thinking of your puzzler: if you want always optimal path, it afaik reduces to A* search. actually quite similar to pcb routing.
16:45 a111 Logged on 2016-08-20 14:39 mircea_popescu: i have eight sets of "sb" (solid branch) : 503 q 222 ; 1466 q 3 ; 973 q 207 ; 983 q 252 ; 1651 q 258 ; 2963 q 189 ; 563 q 22 and 336 q 225. the first number is the count, the second the quality (depends on your mining, whatever) ; you can mix these, the game will floor the average quality. this means you can lose matter through mixing, so you want to mix stacks so as to obtain the highest possible quality final.
~ 31 minutes ~
17:17 asciilifeform Mocky: admissible heuristic is not difficult, simply must not ~over~ estimate the cost. can simply take 'number of remaining piles , squared' or the like
17:17 asciilifeform or maybe not, hm
17:29 Mocky for example this pile of 4 requires 2 moves: 1x1q 100x1000q 100x1001q 1x2001q, while if you do it without the last pile: the remaining 3 require 20 steps
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17:30 Mocky but i've been thinking on this, and I do think it's possible to come up with one that works in linear time
17:30 asciilifeform Mocky: i still dun get why your algo requires the xor of the ~quality~'s oddness bits to be 0
17:31 asciilifeform Mocky: you can losslessly mix e.g. Na=10,Qa=8,Nb=5,Qb=11
17:31 asciilifeform ( possibly mircea_popescu already pointed this out , but it follows from the eqn )
17:33 asciilifeform (80+55) = 9 * (10+5) , new quality is 9, integer
17:33 Mocky well, i was given a somewhat different problem statement 2 months ago. more of a software requirement than problem statement actually: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-06-10.log.html#t18:59:23
17:33 lobbesbot Logged on 2018-06-10 18:59:23: <diana_coman> so you want to ever mix only same quantity of items and of qualities either both odd or both even so you don't lose anything
17:33 asciilifeform this statement is true, but it overtight constraint on moves
17:33 Mocky turns out oversimplification
17:34 asciilifeform any move that satisfies the eqn K(Na+Nb) == NaQa + NbQb , where K is integer, is valid
17:34 asciilifeform (i.e. lossless)
17:35 Mocky i get it now
17:37 mircea_popescu Mocky it's certainly possible to give maximal step count though O(n) heuristic.
17:37 mircea_popescu amusingly, prime number count heuristics play a part.
17:38 Mocky asciilifeform, at the time, wasn't trying to confirm correctness of problem statement, was trying to deliver useful feature as described
17:39 asciilifeform Mocky: rright, but iirc mircea_popescu posed 'prove this algo is optimal, or if not, show the optimal' puzzler
17:39 mircea_popescu yeah, what diana specified there was basically the already extant private item.
17:45 mircea_popescu mod6 i'm sorry, but ima have to refund you. whole exercise turned into a massive pile of idiocy. im closing an entire bank out of the loop over their idiotic misbehaviour ; we'll have to try this again later on.
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17:45 Mocky asciilifeform, sure but demonstrating overtight constraint in extant algo dun do either. nor does proposing A* without heuristic
17:45 mircea_popescu fucking useless "banks", i swear to god by now it's the exact equivalent of "technology" from bed sitting room, guy-pedals-electricity.
17:46 mircea_popescu mod6 what'd you prefer, !!pay or ecu ?
17:50 mod6 mircea_popescu: ah ok, thanks for the update. I'll get back to ya here in a bit on what's best for unwind.
17:50 mircea_popescu sadly.
18:00 asciilifeform Mocky: i dun have a proper heuristic yet. but must note that 'xor(qa&1, qb&1)==0' is overtight, so unlikely that earlier algo is optimal
18:03 Mocky noted
~ 29 minutes ~
18:33 asciilifeform !!up diana_away
18:33 deedbot diana_away voiced for 30 minutes.
18:34 diana_away hey, thanks asciilifeform ! back from the Pacific here, still no ocelot
18:34 lobbesbot diana_away: Sent 3 days, 18 hours, and 28 minutes ago: <mircea_popescu> what if we hard-forbid low ids, server side as ad interim measure ?
18:35 * BingoBoingo wondering if Costa Rica does Arepas or if those never made it across the Darien Gap
18:35 diana_away BingoBoingo: what are Arepas?
18:36 BingoBoingo diana_away: Latino johnny cakes. A flat cornbread just thick enough to split and stuff with other Latino foods.
18:37 diana_away hm, here they have this "tres leches" cake that kid is in love with
18:38 diana_away food wise to be honest I kept to fish and seafood which are both good and fruit which is clearly an entire level above what one gets in europe but apparently I like it better in cocktails if anything
18:38 diana_away I'm not much for tropical fruit apparently
18:38 BingoBoingo Ah
18:40 diana_away I even had a "shrimp spaguetti" with white whine and what-not - it was delicious; oh, and the fig cake - this should be on asciilifeform's list I'd say
18:40 BingoBoingo All the expats from baseball latino lands (Colombia/Vzla) seem to love Maracuyá (passion fruit), but I find the flavor rather astringent and bitter.
18:41 diana_away I guess I should give that one another try here too
18:41 BingoBoingo If you come to Uruguay, avoid the shrimp pastas. Very underwhelming as a rule.
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18:41 diana_away this clearly had more wine and shrimp than pasta so it was good :D
18:42 BingoBoingo Most pastas here are underwhelming, but when you add shrimp they charge too much of a premium for the disappointment.
18:42 diana_away ahahah, sounds real
18:42 BingoBoingo This is not a very seafood oriented culture despite proximity to the sea
18:43 diana_away I found funny here this thing with american-pretending-to-be-italian food esp salami in the supermarket
18:43 BingoBoingo We get some of that.
18:44 BingoBoingo In the supermarket we also get mixed English/Spanish food labeling. Like the envelope of "Arroz Primavera" which is subtitled "Rice Primavera"
18:44 diana_away ahaha
18:45 diana_away on the bright side I can say that I got along with my adapted italian so far
18:45 diana_away ticos seem generally eager to figure it out anyway, so it works
18:45 BingoBoingo Or the "Manteca de mani: Creamy" which looking closer at the label came to Uruguay from Germany via Venezuala
18:46 diana_away lol
18:47 diana_away mircea_popescu ping
18:48 diana_away BingoBoingo: are people in uruguay walking on the side of the motorway too?
18:48 BingoBoingo diana_away: More commonly IN the motorway
18:48 diana_away improvement!!!
18:49 BingoBoingo And the motocicletas use the sidewalks for delicate maneuvers
18:49 diana_away they had at some point this big sign reading "more monkeys than people" so perhaps they know something about it
18:49 diana_away oh and the great sign on the beach: "sandwishes allowed@
18:49 BingoBoingo lol
18:51 diana_away kid loves the monkeys but he found some very friendly "amigos" ticos rather too much
18:52 BingoBoingo I did learn this week that the word for guinea pig in Spanish is "Cuy" so I can have fun with that asking vendors at the feria to help me pick a good one for dinner
18:53 BingoBoingo It turns out the get the "pig" in their name because they do look like little pigs when you get the hair off of them.
18:53 BingoBoingo The kid may be disappointed by the lack of monkeys in Uruguay
18:54 diana_away ah, I'd always thought they looked more like fat rats
18:55 diana_away there were some monkeys going on the wires with the tails curled on a higher wire so it was basically trolleybus monkeys
18:55 BingoBoingo lol, like Squirrels?
18:56 diana_away squirrels are clearly just furry rats
18:56 diana_away although the red ones which are the only proper squirrels look less like rats
18:57 diana_away re picking stuff, I did ask for some chicken for the child at one restaurant and what he got clearly went moo in its life but since he did not complain anyway...
19:01 BingoBoingo I'm still calibrating when/where to have low expectations here
19:06 BingoBoingo !!up diana_away
19:06 deedbot diana_away voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
20:20 asciilifeform Mocky, mircea_popescu , diana_away , et al : anybody find closed form for 'q1 and q2 miscible or not' ? all i have is Na(Qa - k) + Nb(Qb - k) = 0, for 1<=Na<=size(pileA), 1<=Nb<=size(pileB), integer k exists , but no better
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20:20 asciilifeform but i suspect that i'm thick
20:20 mod6 mircea_popescu: Alright, sorry to keep you waiting here. I'd say Pizarro is fine to hang on to ECU if we can try again in the next say, 60 days. This would eliminate the step of having to buy ECU (which clearly isn't a problem anyway). Otherwise, you can just !!pay. Amount was 1.1bn ECU. I originally bought 1.2bn from dpb, and I was going to hold the remaining 100mn until the end of the year, unless we
20:20 mod6 used it.
20:21 mod6 Unless you want to also do us the favor of taking the additional 100mn ECU, and just !!pay'ing 1.2 BTC back to Pizarro. Totally up to you. We appreciate very much your efforts on this. I think we'll find a way eventually.
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20:22 asciilifeform so if we say F(q1,q2) = 1 if miscible, 0 if not, then e.g. F(2,3)=0, F(2,5)=1, F(3,5)=1, F(4,5)=0, F(4,7)=1 ...
20:22 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843771 << ah, hadn't checked the queue in some time. approved (afaik this means your next comment won't require approval)
20:22 a111 Logged on 2018-08-23 07:04 ave1: !Q later tell trinque, my comment seems to be stuck in transit; http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/#comment-23
20:22 lobbesbot trinque: Sent 17 hours and 18 minutes ago: <ave1> comment seems to be stuck in transit; http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/#comment-23
20:23 asciilifeform very definitely ~not~ if-and-only-if xor(qa&1, qb&1)==0 tho.
20:24 trinque I'll try to find time to reproduce soon. you are correct that the var in script needs to point to the version of portage in distfiles.
20:24 trinque will otherwise reply on teh blag
20:25 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843898 << not manacled, texas doesn't bother me, and I've not concluded yet how far away currency implosion is for the great soviet
20:25 a111 Logged on 2018-08-23 17:59 asciilifeform: i can't speak for what particularly they're manacled to, only for self, tho.
20:25 trinque if soon, I'm going to ride it out right here.
20:28 asciilifeform trinque: makes sense. tho thread wasn't about the inevitable mass implosion, but the erryday 'losing the lottery' where usg decides yer a good candidate for cokemachine
20:30 asciilifeform ( currently seems to stick to preying on the bottom half of the bell curve, mostly, but i suspect this won't last )
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20:31 asciilifeform not even speaking of whatever part of you is denominated in fiatola, ~that~ they can pick up and walk off with whenever feel like it, without even arrests or trials
20:32 asciilifeform by all indications, texas, or alaska, or apparently even mexico, not far enuff.
20:33 * trinque can't argue it wont happen, or whether I have to shoot somebody breaking in tonight, or...
20:40 asciilifeform if history's any guide, they're still in the 'first we'll try and starve the judenschwein, make'em unemployable, then they'll sell their gold to good aryans on their own power' stage of the algo
↖ ↖
20:40 asciilifeform but i dun specifically know.
20:43 asciilifeform fwiw both '20s su and '30s reich followed this model.
20:43 trinque who in this model is the jew, in the present case
20:44 asciilifeform us zeks with btc
20:46 asciilifeform 20th c was century of dekulakizations, where 'these motherfuckers won't give up their hard currency to socialist motherland, let's light fire under their feet', typically shooting was not 1st step, but last step, of algo
↖
20:47 mircea_popescu trinque how many men > 50 with a house do you know ?
20:48 mircea_popescu what's the ratio of those to men > 50 who ~used~ to own a house ?
20:48 trinque quite a few, but my meatwot isn't generally representative
20:49 mircea_popescu well, it's the argument he's bringing. "whether the pantsuit "nationalize" property for reasons to do with the property, like the soviet-pantsuit, or for reasons to do with you, like the nazi-pantsuit, fact remains they're stealing shit because they're socialists, that's what they do"
20:49 asciilifeform see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-29#1676200
20:49 a111 Logged on 2017-06-29 17:32 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8142 << "Her attorney informed us this morning, that although the deed is being assigned to my sister, my brother and I, that if my mother requires nursing home care through Medicare at any point over the next five years, that the Feds will take the house to pay the bills. "
20:50 trinque sure, only thing I'd counter is the game by which they steal is the same test-taking nonsense seen elsewhere
20:50 mircea_popescu herr heinrich who used to have a nuts and botls factory which hitler took from him because "we had a dreirich younger and better and managing your factory" or which stalin took from him "Because factories don't belong with heinrichs", in the end the same thing occured.
20:50 trinque it's not as though anyone's coming at me with quantum physics on an IRS form
20:50 mircea_popescu trinque the proposition is that to believe you understand "the method" is a nonsense stance, in a circumstance where "the method" is mere pretense.
20:51 mircea_popescu yes, "you understant how esltard chicks mate", dates, whatever. looky here : the cunt will fill up, there's no method. there's only fashion, and fashion's a) irrational and b) unreliable.
20:51 asciilifeform trinque: usg tax code weighs, what, 15 tonnes ? didja srsly read all of it ? betcha there's 9001 ways to hang you, me, any other zek, in'ere, if needed.
20:51 asciilifeform ( and, bonus, is amended ~erry week )
20:51 trinque this imagined circumstance where they're even 5% effective is just that.
20:51 mircea_popescu "needed" being rhetorical flourish. i don't crush ants because needed.
20:51 trinque they're not staffed for that
20:51 mircea_popescu trinque you know, being shot at is <5% effective.
20:51 mircea_popescu most people tend to take it seriously.
20:52 asciilifeform 'needed' is broad concept. happened to see ant , stomped
20:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform or happened to not see.
20:52 asciilifeform or.
20:52 asciilifeform either worx.
20:53 asciilifeform when ant specifically targeted, it's short shrift , 10y ago they would've tried you for your woman's illicit fox coat, or that d00d with the 'illegal wood' guitar, etc. today not even this needed , 'ooops police broke wrong door' etc
20:54 asciilifeform 'ooops your aunt had stroke and now in nursing home, you owe yer 2 houses'
20:55 trinque where is the wonderland without "oops X fucked your Y" and I'll pack today
20:55 asciilifeform 'we saw you got 10 btc and didn't declare, that'll be 900k plz by tuesday'
↖
20:55 trinque I recall plenty of razorwire in CR. decorative?
20:55 mircea_popescu they're fixated on metalwork.
20:56 asciilifeform trinque: the way i conceptualize it, yes errybody has sr-90 in their bones. but some folx live right on top of reactor 4 , and others not
20:56 BingoBoingo Seriously, here they have metal fences around everything. Totally decorative
20:57 mircea_popescu also he should have said decorative??? like in those old pot awareness psas.
↖
20:57 BingoBoingo Some here top there fences with small electric fences. Stotting behavior
20:58 asciilifeform it is possible to be shivved by street robber in sao paolo, or gnawed by bear in kamchatka, etc. but robber and bear do not grep yer packetz for 'might have btc' etc
↖
20:58 asciilifeform they're 'shrapnel addressed 'to occupant'' rather than 'bullet with yername on it'
20:58 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo amusing chinesium, they click/spark etc.
20:59 BingoBoingo Occasionally set fires
20:59 BingoBoingo I doubt most are powered on
20:59 mircea_popescu expensive lol.
21:00 BingoBoingo Seriously
21:00 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ordinary compass will tell you if it's powered, no need to touch
21:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843958 << argentards think pasta is potato flake mush.
21:01 a111 Logged on 2018-08-23 22:41 BingoBoingo: If you come to Uruguay, avoid the shrimp pastas. Very underwhelming as a rule.
21:01 BingoBoingo They only happen here ~10 feet up on top of unelectrified barriers.
21:01 asciilifeform ( esp if you think there's an alarm, connected to gestapo , with current sensor )
21:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1843992 <<< no, that's the formula.
21:04 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 00:20 asciilifeform: Mocky, mircea_popescu , diana_away , et al : anybody find closed form for 'q1 and q2 miscible or not' ? all i have is Na(Qa - k) + Nb(Qb - k) = 0, for 1<=Na<=size(pileA), 1<=Nb<=size(pileB), integer k exists , but no better
21:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1843996 << this is fine, do i shoot it ?
21:04 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 00:21 mod6: Unless you want to also do us the favor of taking the additional 100mn ECU, and just !!pay'ing 1.2 BTC back to Pizarro. Totally up to you. We appreciate very much your efforts on this. I think we'll find a way eventually.
21:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: right! but how to evaluate F(qa,qb) without iterating through all possible na,nb.
21:05 mircea_popescu right ?
21:05 mircea_popescu closed form is closed form, fuck you and mz. heuristics tied together to the same pole.
21:05 asciilifeform i sawed on it, tried to transform to system of diophantines, but came up empty
21:05 mircea_popescu hence my comment re euler's count of primes etc.
21:05 asciilifeform didn't even get as far as primes
21:06 asciilifeform ( if mircea_popescu did, would be interesting to read how )
21:06 mod6 mircea_popescu: yeah, go ahead and !!pay 1.2 BTC back to me, and I'll meet ya on eulora to pay you 100mn ECU. Thanks!
21:06 mircea_popescu !!pay mod6 1.2
21:06 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/As0H8/?raw=true
21:07 mod6 im in old-town when you're ready
21:07 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844048 << lol, so maybe it is!
21:07 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 00:57 mircea_popescu: also he should have said decorative??? like in those old pot awareness psas.
21:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my observation was, the old algo rejects some legal moves (e.g. 4,7 )
21:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform specifically via diophantine : if a and b is a natural interval then a*p + b * q (p, q arbitrary constants) will not admit factors ever so often (when they sum to a prime)
21:08 asciilifeform when a*p and b*q sum to prime ?
21:08 mircea_popescu though our constraint is narrower than "not admit factors", but if you do the whole thing in modulo-ai+bi...
21:09 mircea_popescu it comes to the same thing.
21:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform am i making any sense to you ?
21:13 asciilifeform not yet
21:14 asciilifeform what i got thus far, is that Na(Qa - k) + Nb(Qb - k) = 0 admits solutions ( some Na, Nb ) for certain Qa,Qb but not others.
21:15 asciilifeform 4+7=11, prime, but has solutions ( entire diagonal of'em)
21:15 mircea_popescu what 4 + 7 is this ?!
21:16 asciilifeform q1,q2
21:16 mircea_popescu that's not what's being contemplated.
21:16 mod6 oh when p and q are 1?
21:17 mircea_popescu consider the intervals of N (0...a], (0...b]. for two arbitrary values from N, p, q. the sum of the series-product in the ring modulo-sum is ~sometimes~ 0.
21:18 mircea_popescu numerically : (0..100], (0..80], 17, 19. 1 * 17 + 5 * 19 modulo (1+5) = 4.
21:19 mircea_popescu seems to me that EXACTLY like in the original case of the diophantine approach to "just how many primes are there" we've in fact drawn a conical here in a multi-dimesional space.
21:19 asciilifeform i follow thus far
21:19 mircea_popescu that's all i had.
21:19 asciilifeform cooking up a lol re subj, brb
21:20 mircea_popescu this function is neither derivable nor even continuous. can call it eulora mix function or w/e.
21:24 mod6 neato
21:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844008 << the criterion rather seems to be "old[er] male". which even has a lot of historical backing (perhaps most amusing of which, anyone know how the problem of double-spent land grants was solved upon the death of caesar ?
21:27 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 00:30 asciilifeform: ( currently seems to stick to preying on the bottom half of the bell curve, mostly, but i suspect this won't last )
21:27 mircea_popescu pro-tip : the older set of veterans got fucked.)
21:32 mircea_popescu mod6 i dun see you in old town ?
21:33 mod6 oh one sec.
21:33 mod6 must have timed out.
21:34 mod6 no nevermind. im over by Heina.
21:34 mircea_popescu a new town. brt.
21:34 mod6 Oooh. Sorry thought that was old town.
21:34 mircea_popescu nah remember up on that hill by electron ?
21:35 mod6 oooh, gotcha derp
21:36 mod6 cheers!
21:36 asciilifeform ok, here goes...
21:37 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mp.gif
↖
21:37 asciilifeform is the method obvious here or should i describe
21:38 mod6 sick tattoo
21:38 asciilifeform white pixel : valid solution for some qa,qb,na,nb
21:38 asciilifeform outer grid is x : qa, y : qb
21:38 mircea_popescu is this the map of mixings
21:38 mircea_popescu \yeah
21:38 asciilifeform inner grids are x : na, y : nb .
21:39 mircea_popescu indeed most elegant.
21:39 asciilifeform black squares correspond, therefore, to values of qa and qb for which no solutions are possible
21:39 mircea_popescu Mocky check it up, in the end possibru LOOKUP TABLE!
21:39 asciilifeform nao somebody turn this into proof !
21:39 asciilifeform cuz i certainly havent
21:39 asciilifeform gentlemen, start yer engines..
21:40 mod6 oh shit, it's a gif. i bet if i stare long enough a dragon pops out at me.
21:40 asciilifeform if anybody needs a bigger ( or smaller ) ver of this lolcat, plox to write in.
21:41 mircea_popescu alfart.
21:42 asciilifeform i made it 2048x2048 pixels, ought to print well on just about any printer , for wall lolcat hanging.
21:42 asciilifeform can also saw it diagonally, you dun really need both halves across diagonal
21:43 asciilifeform (symmetric)
21:43 mod6 pretty cool alf
21:45 asciilifeform nao we haven't yet the proof, but seems like we can conjecture that if |qa - qb| = 1, then piles with qa and qb are immiscible in any ratio; elsewise, yes mixable, in a ratio that can be found, i suspect, in O(1) .
21:46 mircea_popescu the thing is : if you mix portions of both stacks you gain ~nothing.
21:47 mircea_popescu you want to always use up a whole stack
21:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do you ? seems like Mocky's proggy doesn't
21:47 mircea_popescu does, does.
21:47 mircea_popescu mixes a whole stack with a portion of another
21:47 mircea_popescu see, you want to fewerize the stacks.
21:47 asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bvsMD/?raw=true << does not.
21:48 mod6 paging apeloyee
21:48 asciilifeform ( from http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-22#1843560 )
21:48 a111 Logged on 2018-08-22 05:48 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525884 ftr my algo does it in 40 steps preserving full value of 1,639,142: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bvsMD/?raw=true
21:48 mircea_popescu where ?
21:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if it did, it would shed a whole pile for each line of move output
21:48 mircea_popescu nah.
21:49 mircea_popescu put x% of stack a in stack b === mix stack b with portion of a and place the result where stack b stood before.
21:49 asciilifeform move 1 : 503x222q 1466x3q 973x207q 983x252q 1651x258q 2963x189q 563x22q 336x225q -> 503x222q 1466x3q 973x207q 983x252q 1088x258q 2963x189q 1126x140q 336x225q
21:49 asciilifeform same # of piles as in init state
21:50 asciilifeform ditto all the way until move 31
21:50 asciilifeform when the 1st pile disappearance
21:50 mircea_popescu ...
21:50 mircea_popescu what you say doesn't contradict what i say.
21:51 asciilifeform aah i see it
21:51 mircea_popescu yeah.
21:51 asciilifeform yea he adds portion of pile a to whole of pile b
21:51 mircea_popescu right.
21:52 mircea_popescu now mind you, we have no proof that this is correct approach. maybe by strewning out piles you get better results in the end.
21:52 mircea_popescu one obvious strategy : make q1 piles of everything, then min-max them, sorta like bubble sort.
21:53 asciilifeform as i see it, this makes for new algo : 1) make list of immiscible piles, henceforth do not iterate with these 2) iterate through possible mixes, solving eqn for Na (for known Nb, entirety of pile B) and k exists . until you end with solely immiscible Q pairs. then stop.
21:54 asciilifeform if can prove the |qa - qb| != 1 thing, can then use this algo.
21:54 mircea_popescu there can't be inmiscible more-than-two-not-same-q piles.
21:54 mircea_popescu 3 or more piles of diff q are always miscible further.
21:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if my conjecture is troo, then you're right
21:56 asciilifeform ( and as i understand it, if yer right, then my conjecture must be true )
21:56 mircea_popescu im right, im right. there's a reason we're using "two stacks of diff parities" as stop condition.
21:57 asciilifeform then mircea_popescu's proof for this is proof also for $conjecture, lol
21:57 asciilifeform and can use this method.
21:58 BingoBoingo Piles >> https://imgoat.com/uploads/00da03b685/138807.png
21:58 asciilifeform ugh was this necessary BingoBoingo !111
21:59 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i love the pretense that dumb whale has "a life".
21:59 mod6 my eyes
21:59 BingoBoingo No, but it has been a while
21:59 asciilifeform now my next conjecture, is that shortest full reduction never will require more than 2*P steps, P is number of q-miscible piles.
22:00 mircea_popescu this is false, trivial example http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843918
22:00 a111 Logged on 2018-08-23 21:29 Mocky: for example this pile of 4 requires 2 moves: 1x1q 100x1000q 100x1001q 1x2001q, while if you do it without the last pile: the remaining 3 require 20 steps
22:00 asciilifeform Mocky's algo aint optimal !
22:00 mircea_popescu so you've got a 6 steps solution ?
22:00 asciilifeform it rejects ~3/4 of legal moves
22:01 asciilifeform i dun have one in my head, lol. but loox on the surface that there is one.
22:01 Mocky for sake of argument, possible it rejects 3/4 of worst moves
22:01 asciilifeform also possible
22:01 mircea_popescu seems decent ossasepia.
22:01 mircea_popescu that particular example i mean.
22:02 * mircea_popescu wipes tear from eye, brought forth by how eulora will entertain even the blackhearted heretics who won't "play" it. it is a tear of joyous schadenfreunde.
22:02 Mocky but looky, maybe not 20 steps exactly, but more than 2, *no question*
↖
22:02 asciilifeform hey i'm playing it!111 rigthere!
22:03 asciilifeform imho this is perfectly legit play!11
22:03 mircea_popescu i agree.
22:03 asciilifeform tabletop-eulora.
22:04 mircea_popescu you'll never make the tops, but then again not everyone does.
22:05 * asciilifeform didn't make tops in arkanoid as a kid, either, can live with this
22:06 mircea_popescu man rthose lasers...
22:06 * asciilifeform sings... tidididididida...
22:06 mod6 rent rockchip, make text-only-client, setup foxybot, profit???
22:07 mircea_popescu go for it.
22:08 mircea_popescu it's mockybot these days tho. he finally released one that works, i've been mining with it all week.
22:08 mircea_popescu half a dozen pops or so.
22:08 mod6 hey nice!
22:08 mircea_popescu very nice indeed.
22:08 mod6 maybe i'll give that a shot this weekend. i love mining
22:08 mircea_popescu me too! i used to not really be able to do so much, but nowadays...
22:09 mod6 remember doing it all by hand? my arm used to hurt after hours of this lol.
22:09 mircea_popescu o yea
22:10 mircea_popescu didn't thickasthieves get carpal ? or am i conflating stories ?
22:10 asciilifeform i think he contracted cuckal
22:10 asciilifeform or whatever it's called.
22:10 mircea_popescu i recall this being a topic at c1, and me going "oh, there'll be bots"
22:10 mircea_popescu FORESIGHTS!
22:10 mod6 i dunno, maybe? i felt like my arm was gonna fall off a few times. but never as bad as anything perm.
22:11 mod6 but we were all running around hording up all kinds of loot.
22:11 mod6 ive still got STs.
22:11 mircea_popescu me2
22:11 mod6 i read that they're abundant nao tho
22:11 mircea_popescu time for caek and cocktails, bbl!
22:11 mod6 c-ya
22:12 asciilifeform i'ma leave the proof for conjecture #2 here :
22:12 asciilifeform the diagonal symmetry in the inner matrices. QED.
22:13 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> didn't thickasthieves get carpal ? or am i conflating stories ? << Mats has carpal, TAT went terminally comment section butthurt
22:13 asciilifeform ( any qa-qb miscible pair of piles, can be merged in either 1 ( corresponding to the inner matrices having white line on diagonal ) moves, or 2 ( corresponding to those which do not ) .
22:13 asciilifeform )
22:14 asciilifeform actually nm.
22:14 asciilifeform i'ma bbl.
22:20 Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844113 this is very nice
22:20 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 01:37 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mp.gif
~ 34 minutes ~
22:54 Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844187 this was meant to read 2*P
22:54 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 02:02 Mocky: but looky, maybe not 20 steps exactly, but more than 2, *no question*
22:56 Mocky neither could it be done in 3*P. my given example I'd wager 50/50 if it could be done in 4*P
23:00 mircea_popescu ah, but... how do you reason ?
23:04 Mocky based on intuition, which i shall explain
23:07 Mocky the 1xq1 item has a tiny mass compared to the 200 ~q1000 items, and will resolve into the q1000 pile. theres no way to mix a q1 up to q1000 using only ~q1000 items in 10 or less moves. it's just got a long way to go
23:08 mircea_popescu Mocky : mix 1q1 with 99q 1001. new set is now 100q1k, 100q991, 1q 1001. then mix 1q1001 with 9q991. new set is 100q1k, 91q991, 10q992.
23:08 mircea_popescu next you split the 100 into the 991 and 992 groups and you're done.
23:08 mircea_popescu next you split the 100 into the 991 and 992 groups and you're done.
23:08 mircea_popescu 4 moves.
23:10 Mocky i'm going to take a minute and verify that. but i expect you to be right, and then im gonna come back and say "ah, but i chose a bad example"
~ 17 minutes ~
23:27 Mocky looks right, so my intuition is clearly ill informed. imma see what else I can see
~ 30 minutes ~
23:58 asciilifeform Mocky: the lolcatcheatsheet suggests that any legal move is able to reduce a pile at least in half
23:59 asciilifeform ( and really, much moar )
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