#trilema | 2016-08-20

this was a great read: http://trilema.com/2016/the-text-and-the-piddly-recantion/

~ 50 minutes ~

01:17

$up indoor_jellyfish

01:17

indoor_jellyfish voiced for 30 minutes.

~ 45 minutes ~

02:03

ben_vulpes well she's trying.

02:03

mod6 why ty.

02:10

:]

~ 3 hours 23 minutes ~

05:34

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525462 << http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/29/how-a-donut-habit-can-send-you-to-jail

mircea_popescu: my 2016 work was just monthly reports and btc.yt maintenance, about 4hrs total. There's another 20hrs turdatron upgrade/maint but seems that went to waste.

~ 2 hours 4 minutes ~

07:39

Framedragger

http://thelongandshort.org/society/war-on-cash (cached: http://archive.is/WinMO) - some parts read naive, but overall an okay piece.

~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~

08:49

PeterL

08:49

Logged on 2016-08-19 17:48 asciilifeform: in fact, iirc it is no longer even necessary to have actual dope, there are folks doing time for packets of sugar and flour.

~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~

10:06

jurov which turdatron whas that ?

10:07

this one http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev

10:08

ah the mail list ?

10:08

i dun recall what the problem was there.

10:08

me neither

10:09

i do of course recall alf throwing a number of hissy fits

10:10

the coupla times i used it, i recall it working (after cutting through a mess of operator error).

10:12

jurov actually, it's still the cannonical way to publish vpatches, no ?

10:14

no idea, there was supposed to be no cannonical anything with v

10:15

so if i want to publish a vpatch today, how do i go about it ?

10:16

ofc you can send it to mailing list. and to phf via deedbot, and maybe some other places i dunno?

10:17

ah yeah, there's also deedbot process. how does that work again phf ?

10:17

jurov so are you thinking of turning it off ?

10:18

so far not, but i will turn it off if something arises that needs nontrivial fix

10:18

ic.

10:18

so far vpatch production not exactly deluvional in the first place.

10:27

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525870 << very bad idea

10:27

Logged on 2016-08-20 14:18 jurov: so far not, but i will turn it off if something arises that needs nontrivial fix

10:27

it is still the authoritative history of trb.

10:28

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525860 << email mutilation

10:28

Logged on 2016-08-20 14:08 mircea_popescu: i dun recall what the problem was there.

10:30

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525867 << doesn't jurov's box have a wwwtronic hopper now?

10:30

Logged on 2016-08-20 14:16 jurov: ofc you can send it to mailing list. and to phf via deedbot, and maybe some other places i dunno?

10:33

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525872 << there remains nothing that is a trivial fix, afaik, only mega-surgeries that promise not only to mutilate 'grandfather's pistol' but even to bolt-shit-on-side...

10:33

Logged on 2016-08-20 14:18 mircea_popescu: so far vpatch production not exactly deluvional in the first place.

10:34

yes. wasn't a complaint.

10:38

here's a nice eulora knapsack problem for anyone looking to sharpen their ACTUAL computer science skills :

10:39

i have eight sets of "sb" (solid branch) : 503 q 222 ; 1466 q 3 ; 973 q 207 ; 983 q 252 ; 1651 q 258 ; 2963 q 189 ; 563 q 22 and 336 q 225. the first number is the count, the second the quality (depends on your mining, whatever) ; you can mix these, the game will floor the average quality. this means you can lose matter through mixing, so you want to mix stacks so as to obtain the highest possible quality final.

↖ ↖

10:39

write code that does this.

10:39

(mixing is always pairwise)

~ 23 minutes ~

11:03

ha, and I was just suggesting that in eulora, lol

11:04

:p

11:04

but actually why pairwise only? iirc you can mix up to 16 in one go using a table, no? (if it wasn't complicated enough )

11:04

http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/609AF429A536FCA467F01F21DA23DA79C5663B50FCF17243C6AF812E8D86E222 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.246.69.24 (ssh-rsa key from 183.246.69.24 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on

11:05

pretty sure it still does them pairwise

11:05

guess I'll go and check that

11:11

183.246.69.24 << first, i think, in china.

11:11

$s 11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499

11:11

1 result for "11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499

11:13

dafuq is wrong with deedbot

11:13

looks like i will have to paste ?

11:13

eh simmar down.

11:13

http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/92EF45902AD5DDD496F233A413911C8A77BF9FAB0F6605ACC1B305A87C863708 ; Phuctored: 11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.4.21 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.4.21 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Fr

11:14

^ also china.

11:15

http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/92EF45902AD5DDD496F233A413911C8A77BF9FAB0F6605ACC1B305A87C863708 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.4.21 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.4.21 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Fre

11:15

http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/609AF429A536FCA467F01F21DA23DA79C5663B50FCF17243C6AF812E8D86E222 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 11077075678020735934526148020847970758896871547063037169613263824976154697682093654805709367957440110046911224501506446879317626764896123149439487419328499 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.246.69.24 (ssh-rsa key from 183.246.69.24 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on

11:15

lol, now with dupe.

11:16

in other lulz: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-rbs-interestrates-idUKKCN10U1C5

11:16

'Some big corporate clients of Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS.L) face the prospect of paying to hold deposits with the bank from Monday as it becomes the first lender in Britain to charge negative interest rates.'

11:17

"and as it isn't ready or willing to allow clients to cash out... BANKING IS NOT A TAX (says the SCROTUK)

11:17

with the golden: 'Banks are seeking to encourage depositors to shift their cash out of deposit accounts into other financial products.'

11:17

BUY MOAR BEZZLE

11:21

mircea_popescu and co, there's no deedbot process. at the frequency of vpatches, whenever i see one, i just uploaded it to btcbase. and by see, i mean it's posted to a log or just mentioned

11:22

there's also http://btcbase.org/upload, this checks vpatch against seal and posts it http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=uploads

11:23

the only patch that was uploaded this way is http://btcbase.org/patches/phf-shiva-swank obviously done by me

11:28

then tha'ts the process.

11:29

asciilifeform the trend of calling them "financial products" btw smacks of the whole "they fail at trading but succeed at feeling like a trader". basically western banking is moving into las vegas' niche, which is why that port got sanded.

11:29

there's periodically things that claim to be vpatches, but they don't have genesis. i think a notable example of that is v.pl, which has been published as v.pl, and then followed up by vpatches that are supposed to superseded each other rather than form a chain. generally i've seen that pattern a lot, people publish something, than publish a second vpatch, that doesn't build on previous vpatch, but supposed to replace it

11:29

instead. obviously this doesn't make for pretty graphs, so i don't upload it

11:29

"what do you mean we lost your money ? YOU GOT YOUR ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCT!|

11:30

*then

11:30

phf yeah, very sensible not to upload them.

11:30

ffs, than/then would be the death of me

11:30

and everyone doing that : wouldja stop fucking with the live wires and use the civilised process!

11:30

i must point out that it is always possible to retroshit a genesis.

11:31

(simply take the initial publication and diff against an empty dir.)

11:31

asciilifeform there's no "a genesis". for the last fucking time.,

11:31

then persuade original author to sign.

11:31

no.

11:31

no sale ; no deal and no further discussion. there is A genesis, and everything else obeys this.

11:31

umm there are multiple proggies.

11:32

not only trb.

11:32

sure ; and there's multiple people and not everyone's yet mentally comfortable with the whole thing which is why people do the "patch replacing patch" thing.

11:32

e.g., mod6's vtron does not depend on trb in any way shape or form

11:32

ergo it has own genesis - mod6's first publication thereof.

11:33

and trb - its own. etc.

11:33

right. each has its own respective genesis.

11:33

the point is to use it as such.

11:33

well yes.

11:34

my point was that mod6 could produce a genesis for v.pl that correctly clamps underneath existing vpatch sequence.

11:34

there's places for flexibility ; but this isn't one. i dun even wanna think about "creative" solutions such as "retrocreate a genesis". just god damned it already, take the code, sign it, and then patch on the basis of that.

11:34

asciilifeform i dun want this sort of c-ism unix-ism microsoft-ism imported!

11:34

mircea_popescu: the result will be exactly equal.

11:35

stop fucking "fixing" things.

11:35

i do not care!

11:35

i am not about to pretend that mathematically idempotent things are different.

11:35

the process will not have been equal ; and process interests me. you can go take the results behind a shed and shoot them./

11:35

asciilifeform: but there's also no existing vpatch sequence. there's N vpatches, that are all genesis children. you're supposed to know that N+1 supersedes N

11:36

mircea_popescu: this is very easy to say, but not only did we not have generations pass, but even after just one year, much of what anyone remembers about 'the process' comes entirely from the recorded result.

11:36

this is neither true nor relevant.

11:36

phf: then it is a clusterfuck.

11:36

asciilifeform: exactly :)

11:36

and wtf with the argumentum ad populum. i care "what people do" about as much as i care about "probable results"

11:37

mircea_popescu, as usual, is choking on allergens that aren't actually here.

11:37

tell you what : i remember the process just fine ; has nothing to do with "the recorded result".

11:37

at any rate, ask mod6 to regrind, he made how many, 4 of these ?

11:37

should take him a few min.

11:37

mostly because the recorded result is so far pretty fucking distant from itself.

11:38

i'm sure he will ; but the important point here is not that as much as the principle of teh thing.

11:38

asciilifeform: i did, he said something about "this being work in progress and don't want to commit" or somesuch

11:38

mircea_popescu: i can see where you're going, aha.

11:39

so i think mircea_popescu has alergy to broken thinking, which is there plenty. retrofitting "equivalent solution" in this case is going to mask the fact that the process was not v, but something else entirely made to look like v post factum. you might as well export git history into v patches

11:40

i get it, it's pretty fucking revolutionarily wild, and taken seriously teh mind needs some time to digest the whole thing. not a problem. but in the meanwhile gotta keep things clean so the poor soul actually has a port to come to when he comes.

11:42

anyway - the more general point here, important and boldly underlined, is that WE ARE NOT RESULTS DRIVEN. the "results", factual or probable, certain or disputed, are no part of the fucking decision process.

11:42

the republic is a deductive affair.

11:43

for that matter, i daresay i've seen the sad fruits of "results-oriented programming" for lo these many decades, and in honestly i could have done with a whole lot less of it.

~ 29 minutes ~

12:13

mircea_popescu: argument was not 'oh we'll fudge it, and no one will know the difference!1111'

12:13

rather : suppose there are two possible processes, P and P'

12:13

P produces the Right Thing in the Right Way 'per laws of man and gods' etc.

12:14

output is O.

12:14

P' brings down curse upon the kingdom, and slowly despoils the lands, spreads madness.

12:14

but likewise output is O.

12:14

this is a problem.

12:14

because now you have promise in your protocol.

12:16

entire appeal of 'v' is to drive out 'promise' from protocol with hot irons.

12:20

this thread is quite reminiscent of the gpg key-revocation thread.

12:22

even of the 'dao' thread.

~ 51 minutes ~

13:13

yes, but at some point you will have, in all protocols that actually exist, some level of promise.

13:13

there's "promise" in the bitcoin protocol that you'll type digits where the digits go.

13:22

mircea_popescu: not really - if i shit in my btctron, the most that can burn down is my own house.

13:23

just as with electric grid, which is imperfect, but NOTHING the konsooomer can to do HIS mains socket, will burn down entire city.

13:23

this is the minimal bar.

13:24

*

asciilifeform bbl - meat.

~ 53 minutes ~

14:17

exactly nothing burns down if you do stupid shit to early v projects, much like exactly nothing burns down if instead of using the keyboard normally, you try typing with your big toes.

14:18

that STILL doesn't mean bigtoe typing is going to be well regarded.

14:28

http://archive.is/Ja6s4 <<< (-_\)

14:28

Google drive no less

~ 15 minutes ~

14:44

lol pruned blockchain

14:44

mmmkay.

14:46

You can trust my pruned blockchain, which has in no way whatsoever been altered, pinky swear!

~ 22 minutes ~

15:08

Hark, the herald angels bring almost news http://qntra.net/2016/08/not-quite-news-roundup-xtend-2-tmr/

15:09

http://qntra.net/2016/08/not-quite-news-roundup-xtend-2-tmr/ << Qntra - Not Quite News Roundup Xtend 2 (TM)(R)

15:10

\o/

15:11

This is the slowest news month for Qntra since I started contributing.

15:11

I literally can't make a story on anything last few days

15:12

News is naturally bursty.

15:13

Everything tends to go to shit and become news at once.

15:13

Maybe see if any lulz is happening in metals markets? Skip the precious stuff though because boring.

15:13

brb, ice cream

15:14

bon apetit

~ 30 minutes ~

15:44

This story with Mr. Bader's peach trees is a travesty: http://qntra.net/2016/08/dicamba-disaster-continues-destruction/

15:44

*

shinohai waves at mod6

15:44

how's it goin?

15:45

Frosty here, you?

15:48

ah, good. been raining a ton up here. good for the veggies though.

15:49

the mosquitos are flying in squadrons

15:49

its bananas

15:49

lol, we have storms in forecast so I look forward to evening at home with good muscadine wine.

15:50

is that a local wine deal?

15:51

Yeah kind of a local thing. I have a really hard time finding it in other places.

15:52

cool though

15:52

hi mod6 how's that eulora-box thing going? :D

15:55

BingoBoingo: http://bikeportland.org/2016/08/20/speeding-driver-kills-teenage-girl-who-was-crossing-se-hawthorne-189858 << "weather"?

15:57

<+diana_coman> hi mod6 how's that eulora-box thing going? :D << hi!! it's not going exactly yet. been kinda caught up. i need to get a box for that. will do, soonish.

~ 37 minutes ~

16:34

well, actually, i've got this box just sitting here... its new.

16:34

i put obsd on it, had some plans for it... but now it's been idle for like... oh... eight months.

16:34

maybe i should yield and throw ubuntu on it and make that the new eulora box.

16:35

hm, it doesn't have to be ubuntu you know

16:36

yeah, but bsd isnt going to cut the mustard for all the things eulora related.

16:36

and, yah, maybe it'd be something else other than ubuntu, but *shrug*.

16:37

What not deb? Less bloat

16:37

yeah, probably would shinohai

16:38

It works fine for me, just the video issues I had, but others assure me the chetty mod would fix.

16:38

g-gentoo quest?

16:38

it's not really that painful

16:38

the fifth time

16:39

with asciilifeform's killfile

16:42

lol

16:43

only thing i can't figure out with asciilifeform's killfile is how to get laptop to do apm related stuff. the main package depends on dbus

16:55

<+mircea_popescu> so if i want to publish a vpatch today, how do i go about it ? <+jurov> ofc you can send it to mailing list. and to phf via deedbot, and maybe some other places i dunno? << i always just send mine to the ml

16:56

i probably should also, update phf.

17:01

<+phf> there's periodically things that claim to be vpatches, but they don't have genesis. i think a notable example of that is v.pl, which has been published as v.pl, and then followed up by vpatches that are supposed to superseded each other rather than form a chain. generally i've seen that pattern a lot, people publish something, than publish a second vpatch, that doesn't build on previous vpatch, but su

17:01

pposed to replace it <+phf> instead. obviously this doesn't make for pretty graphs, so i don't upload it << yup. there's a planned vpatch for this. bunch of discussions. just been focusing my attention on trb build stuff lately.

17:05

<+phf> asciilifeform: i did, he said something about "this being work in progress and don't want to commit" or somesuch << i could regrind them, yeah. ideally, each who want to use these unexamined items should do so on their own accord, placing them in their patches directory as a "WILD" patch. Until the day when the foundation moves forward and folds them in after examination and testing.

17:07

so if i see the "dump priv key" patch out there on btcbase or found somewhere else (it's not included in the patches in thebitcoin.foundation's site), then i'd pull that vpatch down, regrind it myself, and place it into patches where I can apply it myself as a "WILD" patch.

17:07

mod6, shinohai, why not gentoo ?? (i run eulora on gentoo btw)

17:08

i just laughed because of the previous tribulations with gentoo. i'm fine with it now that i'm over that hump.

17:08

I haven't tried Eulora build on Gentoo yet, only got one box w/gentoo

17:08

well, mainly. i guess. the emerge thing still gets me from time to time.

17:08

i can't imagine there is a better environment to build and run it in, granted getting a working gentoo might be the hard part

17:08

yeah, that.

17:09

i'd say that gentoo would probably make a fine box for eulora.

17:09

it's no so hard. I mean if I can do it then there must not be any excuses

17:09

im pretty dumb, danielpbarron :]

17:09

when it comes to computers i'm sure i'm dumber

17:10

anyway, im sure it would work fine. at the same time, not sure i'd want to spend hours/days setting up a box for eulora.

17:10

i only feel smart about computers when i'm among people not-in-here

17:10

once it's set up, it can run automatically while you do other things

17:11

for example, barehanded gathering all day. have an elder set you up with some bits and threads and check back in a week

17:15

and i guess furthermore, if it's needed for me to regrind these four vpatches as a service for others...

17:15

i certainly could do that.

17:17

the goal is and remains this: get the trb build infrastructure completed, once and for all. close out this portion of development with the completion of that (Makefiles) and a subsequent tying vpatch to mark the milestone.

↖ ↖

17:17

Then all newer things that have been submitted can be examined/tested etc.

17:18

And the problem is, if I regrind & sign these patches now, it'd just have to do it again after these other two things are complete anyway.

17:18

s/it'd/i'd/

17:26

This work is getting pretty exciting actually.

17:26

I've got 14 new deeds that I'm about ready to sign and have tested before feeding them to deedbot.

17:26

shinohai, trinque, care to help review these before the feeding?

17:27

mod6: I'm game

17:27

danielpbarron: here's a qq, were you ever able to successfully build bitcoind with the build-bitcoind-V99994.sh ?

17:28

because if so, I think it's had enough testing to send along to the ML and website. get all that updated so people can use that.

17:30

mod6: i don't think you understood what we were saying, but certainly nobody's expecting you to grind vpatches as a "service to others", so please don't

17:30

Oh? Well, perhaps not.

17:32

I can certainly help with that process if someone wants to do this on their own.

17:32

But yeah, will certainly be reviewing those and regrinding them as needed if they pass the vetting process and are added to the tree.

17:33

mod6, i didn't attempt it yet sorry

17:33

No apology required. Was just checking incase I missed something there.

17:33

I'll give it another week, sound ok?

~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~

18:54

$up meuh

18:54

meuh voiced for 30 minutes.

19:02

*

covertress waves hello to mircea_popescu

19:06

mircea_popescu, I bring fond greetings from a gun-toting, tannerite-shooting, ivy league, master of dining ettiquette.

19:06

huh ?

19:06

And those are just the reasons you'll hate him!

19:07

lulz

19:08

in other teenaged life news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9prxy8ZCL1rsxgsgo1_400.gif

19:10

"On Thursday following their acquisition by Univision, Gawker media announced that their former flagship Gawker.com would be shuttered next week." << lol. "all the 'jouralists' have been reclassified as actresses (which is what they always hoped for anyway), playing ugly betty in the 194 unilever sitcoms currently under production. this translates to a 85% pay increase across the board, and their spoken lines will be drastica

19:10

lly limited.

19:10

once more, wise latinos rescue the ship of state.

19:11

xD

19:12

;;later tell bingoboingo "Following the news of a serious RNG bug affecting all GPG versions a low energy shitgnome campaign of apologetics and "not that bad" followed." << can i get a "The fact that hundreds of GPG keys have been Phuctored in the past year has, of course, nothing to do with all this." added ?

19:12

gribble

The operation succeeded.

19:15

mircea_popescu, I'll elaborate when I bring his proposal, in person.

19:16

suppose you tell whoever to go through the motions himself.

19:16

he's too busy, atm. other clients.

19:16

then fuck him. i specifically do not wish to hear anything he has to say.

19:17

and that rather goes for you too : the log is here to make you less stupid. spend at least 100x as much reading it as you spend writing into it, and certainly do not eat anything in any day you've not read at least a thousand lines.

19:17

more specifically, he cannot be seen here.

19:18

that closes his bitcoin career then.

19:18

imo, it diminishes yours for not agreeing to listen to his proposal.

19:19

there we go again

19:19

covertress keep at it and you'll also get booted.

19:19

very well, I'll say my goodnights.

19:20

*

covertress waves goodbye to mircea_popescu

19:20

phf it's hard, huh.

19:23

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526002 << this is so crazy, i live in the flood plain at the end of one of the world's largest rivers, i fondly recall seeing a mosquito. six months ago.

19:25

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526030 << ftr i haet this multi-line paste with comment thing. took me near a whole ten seconds to disentangle who said what to whom.

19:26

also where's a111!

19:26

yeah, i just noticed :> one sec

19:26

we'll end up with a ring of axxx's working together to mutually inhibit each other so only one thing ends in logs. like retina cells.

19:26

we'll end up with a ring of axxx's working together to mutually inhibit each other so only one thing ends in logs. like retina cells.

19:26

we'll end up with a ring of axxx's working together to mutually inhibit each other so only one thing ends in logs. like retina cells.

19:26

:D

19:26

xD

19:29

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526034 << why not try playing it lol. you just wanna compile thangs ?

19:29

Logged on 2016-08-20 21:08 shinohai: I haven't tried Eulora build on Gentoo yet, only got one box w/gentoo

19:30

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526043 << lol that happens to a lot of folk on a lot of topics, i hear.

19:30

Logged on 2016-08-20 21:10 danielpbarron: i only feel smart about computers when i'm among people not-in-here

19:31

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526048 << just a thing for the longterm, mod6 . gotta start thinking in v-process terms.

19:31

Logged on 2016-08-20 21:17 mod6: the goal is and remains this: get the trb build infrastructure completed, once and for all. close out this portion of development with the completion of that (Makefiles) and a subsequent tying vpatch to mark the milestone.

19:32

+mircea_popescu why not try playing it lol. you just wanna compile thangs ? lol, this is why I stick more on trb side of things xD

~ 19 minutes ~

19:52

there was another guy like that. someone shjould make "compile-the rpg"

~ 31 minutes ~

20:24

Just in time BingoBoingo http://archive.is/tu7Lm

20:26

shinohai: old news

20:26

heh I missed that one

20:37

ben_vulpes: Where are the lulz in heroic jap station wagon swats pedellerast traffic nuisance?

20:44

;;later tell covertress Why would anyone not want to be seen here? The light here is very flattering. Anyways there are only two things a person NEEDS in their life. The Most Serene Republic and Sobriety. The second one is debatable.

20:44

gribble

The operation succeeded.

20:46

*

BingoBoingo kinda envies those who can do sobriety as a part time thing. And russians who can be sober even while drinking.

20:47

I tried complete sobriety and decided my life was less interesting because of it.

20:48

Can you do controlled drinking and succeed at it?

20:50

Well I have a bottle or 2 of wine on occasion, then maybe not touch a drop for 2-3 months.

20:50

Depends on mood I guess, but I do enjoy it so I didn't want to give up *entirely*

20:51

Or do you plan on having three beers to celebrate graduating from socialist US school only to discover you have become a Lord of the Greatest Republic.

20:52

And fuck your two bottles of wine crap unless the wine has a name like Thunderbird, Night Train, or Sysco

20:53

russians have a concept for it, "квасить" to drink socially in a controlled manner. failure at квас is seen as a character flaw. a grownup is supposed to go be able to go at it for like 5-6 hours without the embarrassing "passing out face first into the salad" eventual outcome. when you're in your 30s, you should be able to do it for 5-6 hours, then be able to freshen up and do work, etc.

20:53

Or you're a teenage girl. Apparently that sends quite a few spiraling towards a bottom.

20:54

*

shinohai likes Night Train actually

20:55

phf: At some point I had that ability and lost it later to multi day binges. That may or may not have contained 5-12 hour bouts of "civilized" drinking.

20:57

you do proper квас-ing by pacing yourself, but also eating appetizers and small meals (traditional shit like pickles or black bread or salted herring). also there are some rules, like "always go from lower abv to higher"

20:57

but yeah self control is important, and i think a lot of people who do it through their lives turn into alcoholics

20:57

Anyways continuing to drink for me while also living in USSA at a point became unacceptable according to the risk calculator.

20:58

I just got tired of being a slob

20:59

for all the jokes about russian vodka drinking, the amount of "functional alcoholism" i've seen in ussa is staggering. i literally cut contact with about 70% of my friends from my 20s, because they are slob alcoholics with no self control. so it's either health nuts who don't touch the stuff (or rarely) or else it's "50 minutes of квас and then race to the bottom" crowd

21:00

also sop in i.t. "friday happy hours" at shitty bars until everyone's blacked out

21:03

The SOP that pissed me off most was fuckers prancing around with their Dainty light beers while playing games like Beer Pong. Bitch if have that kind of muscle coordination left you ain't drinking.

21:04

But now thank to the 12 steps I have stolen Inner Peace from my higher power, and I will curb stomp a bitch if they try to steal my serenity.

21:04

I never did AA, I can't buy into whole "higher power" thing.

21:05

But it does work for other folks, so that's good.

21:05

re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526117 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3ELSnWybX8

21:05

Logged on 2016-08-21 00:48 BingoBoingo: Can you do controlled drinking and succeed at it?

21:05

controlled drinking into terrain.

21:06

the song goes "uite-asa as vrea sa mor, cu paharul linga mine, cu cobzarul linga mine, intr-o crisma din obor, sa scriu cind o fi momentul cu vin rosu testamentul. sa-i tragem o betie de pomina sa fie"

21:07

mircea_popescu: can not see. Apparently Youtube broke again and refuses to obey my download script.

21:08

shinohai: Higher power is an intentionally vague term. Any of the other lords of TMSR would probably be happy to serve as your higher power if you ask nicely.

21:08

ie, "this is how i wish to die, the glass by me, the kobza player by me, in an Obor dive, and when the time comes write my testament in red wine. let's get so drunk it shall be remembered."

21:08

tmsr is the closet thing to a higher power I acknowledge true

21:10

shinohai: alf or jurov might appreciate the benefits they recieve from serving as an object of your worship just so long as you ask nicely. Both have long histories of lording.

21:10

mircea_popescu: AHA, very popular genera.

21:11

Alf is a vengeful God, this is no better than Jehovah.

21:11

lmao

21:13

shinohai: Well jurov is a high quality lord. Excells at fixing things that nobody thought could be broken until alf tried using them. Jurov is a very patient lord.

21:14

since i got this spun up, here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFduSaFmiwc

21:14

1986 ro clone of frank sinatra, complete with juntos venceremos drip.

21:14

no idea what's with the "i'm a professional waiter" arm position, but anywya.

21:16

likely a holdover from other profession

21:17

guy was huge in romania, ever since teenager. he never did anything but sing.

21:18

Are you sure? Maybe he waited tables until sucking the right dick? Entertainment is a complex industry.

21:18

nah, was college athlete, got injury.

21:18

also, this is trabajadores regime. strictly no dicksucking anywhere.

21:19

WHen has that ever stopped anyone.

21:19

brown nosing only!

21:20

Oh I see. A trombone oriented society.

21:20

aha.

21:20

in ro too, "trombonisti"

21:21

$b 4

21:24

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526122 << this is part and parcel of the definition of humanity, fwiw.

21:24

Logged on 2016-08-21 00:53 phf: russians have a concept for it, "квасить" to drink socially in a controlled manner. failure at квас is seen as a character flaw. a grownup is supposed to go be able to go at it for like 5-6 hours without the embarrassing "passing out face first into the salad" eventual outcome. when you're in your 30s, you should be able to do it for 5-6 hours, then be able to freshen up and do work, etc.

21:25

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526127 << actually, except for some rare strands of caucasian genetics, it WILL kill your liver.

21:25

Logged on 2016-08-21 00:57 phf: but yeah self control is important, and i think a lot of people who do it through their lives turn into alcoholics

21:26

the only thing being that life expectancy of "50 something" is too short to make it obvious.

21:26

but if you plan to do it for 50 years instead of the usual 30-something, your liver will give out most certainly.

21:27

anyway, re "face in salad", all the "party girl" pictures of passed out sluts are degrading NOT for the anglopuritan reasons, but strictly because these adult looking women apparently fail at being not-12.

21:28

<+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526048 << just a thing for the longterm, mod6 . gotta start thinking in v-process terms. << sure thing, point taken.

21:28

Logged on 2016-08-20 21:17 mod6: the goal is and remains this: get the trb build infrastructure completed, once and for all. close out this portion of development with the completion of that (Makefiles) and a subsequent tying vpatch to mark the milestone.

21:31

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526131 << binge alcoholism and computer programming go hand in hand for some reason.

21:31

Logged on 2016-08-21 01:00 phf: also sop in i.t. "friday happy hours" at shitty bars until everyone's blacked out

21:32

*

BingoBoingo prefered quiet desk drinking as is in the logs.

21:33

But that prolly is SOP for journalism

21:33

anyway. i fear that the great cvas society went the way of the cafe society decades prior. people just don't get out enough / maintain social circle enough / whatever for it to wkr.

21:33

work*

21:34

Well that's because Facebook, dying as it is did its damage.

~ 17 minutes ~

21:52

Oh I almost forgot http://qntra.net/2016/08/not-quite-news-roundup-xtend-2-tmr/#rf1-6320

21:58