Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-08-18 | 2016-08-20 → ↓
05:23 Framedragger https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/18/fake-human-sacrifice-filmed-at-cern-with-pranking-scientists-suspected - allegedly cern did most of what it wanted to do and now scientists don't have anything to do...
05:23 Framedragger “Cern does not condone this type of spoof, which can give rise to misunderstandings about the scientific nature of our work.” bhah
05:25 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524440 << yeah okay okay; but i don't know what to tell the guy, what's going on here. "lotsa smart people, it's actually a republic, rewriting the world, slowly. also software"
05:25 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 15:45 mircea_popescu: Framedragger so invite him over.
05:25 Framedragger "butt sex, too"
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~ 42 minutes ~
06:08 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524691 << aww :( moment of clarity was just a moment, then.
06:08 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 18:05 mircea_popescu: https://circleci.com/blog/it-really-is-the-future/ << a week later, retraction.
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
07:22 mircea_popescu Framedragger moments of clarity are definitionally momentary ; anyway, tell him it's a terrorist organisation.
~ 25 minutes ~
07:48 Framedragger mircea_popescu: kk.
07:57 jurov *virtual terrorist cult
07:58 mircea_popescu brb writing teh cia factbook
~ 24 minutes ~
08:22 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
08:22 gribble Current Blocks: 425879 | Current Difficulty: 2.1737548275723764E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 427391 | Next Difficulty In: 1512 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
08:22 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
08:22 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 573.5, vol: 3974.81029855 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 572.424, vol: 5670.07524 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 574.93, vol: 5343.12248079 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 575.68, vol: 3786.15641759 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 576.686344, vol: 58397.86160000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 575.958, vol: 615.09089526 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 575.99, vol: 1177.06403494 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 577.470504, vol: (1 more message)
08:22 BingoBoingo ;;more
08:22 gribble 458559.981 | Volume-weighted last average: 577.259879696
08:33 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524494 << If you want something standard, like a round bottom flask or a condenser, then yes it is much cheaper to get mass produced stuff. But sometimes you want something unique, like a round bottom flask with a condenser coming off at a particular angle and connected by a frit to another chamber and a couple gass line nipples, then it is much cheaper to build yourself
08:33 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 16:33 thestringpuller: PeterL: I asked a friend who blows glass for a living, and he said nowadays it's more expensive to blow science-ware by hand than to get the mass produced stuff...
08:36 mircea_popescu PeterL the problem with build-yourself, at least in my brief experience [of managing other people trying to do it] is that you end up with nonstandard parts, which is an utter pain because a) you may get results you can't later reproduce, which is the bane of all time and eternal sadness and b) it becomes very difficult to correctly model your thing for prototyping/scaling/whatnot. because that little unintended glass lip/lit
08:36 mircea_popescu tle condensation cranny/whatnot was integral and we didn't know.
08:36 mircea_popescu i suspect this is the main reason people moved off it, not so much cost or anything.
08:36 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524504 << in lab we had two flavors of glass, I think it was borosilicate and non-borosilicate (useful based on whether or not you are trying to measure certain metal ions), and we distinguished between them by looking at the edge, one was clear and the other was kinda blue-green
08:36 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 16:43 asciilifeform: the pyrex switcheroo was enabled by the fact of the two glasses being visually indistinguishable.
08:37 mircea_popescu this of course depends also a lot on the application
08:37 mircea_popescu PeterL he's just being difficult, not like boron doesn't have well known absorbtion/emission lines. you can either heat it and see ; or else shine a tuned laser on it and see.
08:39 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524397 << this thing is informally known as a MFP - if you flip it upside down it looks just like a "man fucking pig" (and grad students find humor in the weirdest things)
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08:39 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 15:32 thestringpuller: i'm doing it for refining "essential Oils", i'm going to buy a short path fractional distillation set
08:40 mircea_popescu so on other news, i am writing teh republic's "cia factbook", and on the matter of gdp i would like to have an estimate of the "fair market value of the total time donated to republic during 2015" in the estimation of everyone involved. detailed is better, but nothing over a page omg.
↖ ↖
08:41 mircea_popescu specifically pinging trinque phf bingoboingo mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov ben_vulpes mike_c
08:42 davout i'm pretty sure ~0 fits on a page
08:42 mircea_popescu you're still good for at least 13.37 because hey, gdp is gdp :D
08:42 davout yeah, but 2016 isn't 2015
08:43 mircea_popescu oh that was this year right you are. 0 it is.
08:43 davout :D
08:43 davout i guess the republican french touch is hard to value
08:43 mircea_popescu and in other "mp's handwritten cia factbook will definitely be saner than the original" news, check out the ru entry : "A combination of falling oil prices, international sanctions, and structural limitations pushed Russia into a deep recession in 2015, with the GDP falling by close to 4%. Most economists expect this downturn will continue through 2016."
08:44 mircea_popescu inyourdreams-book much ?
08:45 PeterL are you going to do all the countries or just TMSR? (or is that the only country?)
08:45 mircea_popescu what do i care about these so called other countries.
08:46 mircea_popescu as far as fictions go, i'm also not going to do alice's wonderland or what have you.
~ 27 minutes ~
09:14 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the land of lulz, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/19/twitter_suspends_235000_violent_extremism_accounts
09:14 asciilifeform 'Twitter has announced it has blocked a further 235,000 accounts that promoted “violent extremism.” The avian network's new report comes a week after it succesfully defended a case in which parents of a man slain by ISIS accused it of supporting terrorists. Twitter says it's increasingly using automated means to identify and crush accounts that promote violence and terrorism and will, as of next year, detail those efforts in its
09:14 asciilifeform transparency reports.'
09:16 PeterL use more centralized services, neh?
09:16 asciilifeform http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/19/john_oneill_sexual_risk_order_it_consultant_insane_sec_ban << also lulzy, from same rag
09:16 asciilifeform 'Homeless John O'Neill, 45, must tell police 24 hours in advance even if he only plans on “kissing” or engaging in “sexually explicit conversation” – but has never been convicted of any criminal offence.'
09:17 asciilifeform 'O'Neill is banned from using the internet via any device which police cannot later check. He must also reveal the PIN for his phone to police so they can trawl through it at will. The terms of the SRO mean he must physically hand over for inspection any electronic devices he uses, sometimes every other day. He is also banned from using or owning “forensic wiping software”. He was cleared of rape following a retrial – in which
09:17 asciilifeform he said the verdict was unanimous – last November.'
09:17 asciilifeform 'Sexual Risk Orders are a civil order which became available to police and the National Crime Agency in early 2015. Police employees can apply to a magistrate to impose the order. The law allows police to apply for the punishment to be imposed in cases where the defendant is found not guilty – merely being in a case where the court “deals with” you as a defendant is enough. Its automatic minimum duration is two years and it can
09:17 asciilifeform be renewed indefinitely.'
09:17 asciilifeform rule britannia!111111
09:18 asciilifeform bleeding edge test lab for usaschwitz.
09:19 PeterL guilty until proven innocent, and then still guilty
09:19 mircea_popescu o they're avians nao ?
09:20 asciilifeform i read it as ref to the bird logo
09:20 PeterL these are the bird lord, enemies of the lizard lords?
09:21 mircea_popescu i have nfi, the lulzbook is missing some pages.
09:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform lulzy, especially given the denial of teh beoble.
09:24 asciilifeform elsewhere: https://archive.is/pz0kL << massive compendium of old noose (re recent tor psyops.)
09:27 asciilifeform 'On April 13th, Appelbaum delivered a speech he self-described as "journalistic suicide" at the Logan Center for Investigative Journalism (CIJ) Symposium (where he is an advisor) in Berlin, Germany. During the speech he outlined how he and other investigative journalists had been betrayed by establishment journalists, particularly at The Guardian which he called the "shittiest publication in the English language," to the point where
09:27 asciilifeform their lives were at risk.'
09:27 asciilifeform in may '16 - the demolition derby.
09:30 mircea_popescu leaving aside the specifics, here's the core issues of the matter : want it or not, the world will come to rest randomly on the shoulders of tiny organisations. the fact that something like an obscure newspaper (50 or so people, on a good day) is made of the human equivalent of pressed shitboard will not, and does not, prevent the whole damned 5bn ton globe from landing on them.
09:30 mircea_popescu consequently, the only possible avenue, is the creation of STRONG small organisations.
09:30 mircea_popescu it's unclear whether, say, tmsr would currently be able to withstand the sort of pressure. i am however hopeful that by the time it has to, it will.
09:31 asciilifeform what's the 'pressure' in question consist of ? folks being rounded up an' gassed ?
09:31 mircea_popescu no. "here is the snowden files, do something".
09:31 asciilifeform ah.
09:31 mircea_popescu life, you know ? "the call of life" has become extremely sharp and disproportionately large.
09:31 mircea_popescu what'd be country boy of 1700 called to do ? maaaybe sit on a jury ? defend a meter of trench ?
09:32 mircea_popescu figure out when to bitchslap marie-jeanne ?
09:32 mircea_popescu then the russians had to revolutionize, an utterly modernist phenomenon, suddenly country bumpkins found themselves "minister of agriculture"
09:32 mircea_popescu you think stalin or anyone there is PROUD about the whole michurin affair ? no they aren't.
09:33 mircea_popescu but that was also a century ago. by now...
09:34 asciilifeform i still dun see the pressure in 'here are the files'
09:34 mircea_popescu o you don't ?
09:34 asciilifeform post it all in 1,000,001 places, signed.
09:34 mircea_popescu anyway, the $standard_strategy = "it won't happen to me"."oh shit"."it didn't happen to me"
09:34 mircea_popescu which goes as far as it goes.
09:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and then mp pops about 5500 "agents" and 7500 irate women are looking for you, not to mention there's 10k+ sons who swear vendetta.
09:35 asciilifeform 'pressure' is when folks are being led to the woodchipper and asked nicely to say where the partizans are hiding.
09:35 mircea_popescu that's really nothing.
09:35 mircea_popescu the pressure is always the ethical dilemma. "what do i do now".
09:36 mircea_popescu that you don't share a specific one does not mean you're incapable of having them. moreover, from experience, everyone gets his own, custom-tailored.
09:36 asciilifeform is 'max nazi blood' insufficient ethical algorithm ?
09:37 mircea_popescu does it come with a definition of nazi ?
09:37 asciilifeform nato and the bootlicks.
09:37 mircea_popescu anyway, as per ancient aristotle observation, anything is sufficient algo, even blank string.
09:37 asciilifeform this also.
09:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is myopic, because the nato isn't long of this world. what do you do once they;re gone ?
09:37 asciilifeform you grind down the rubble, so nothing like it can ever reappear ?
09:38 asciilifeform mop up the vendetta sons ?
09:38 asciilifeform plenty of work for 200 years.
09:38 mircea_popescu were it so simple, we could crown you today.
09:38 asciilifeform lel french also thought 'hey, simple'
09:38 mircea_popescu well, simplicity has its advantages.
09:39 asciilifeform no, not simple. but mircea_popescu did appear to ask for an algo, and the very notion results in such simplification.
09:39 mircea_popescu i did not ask. i pointed out to you that "my algo solves this problem" is no solution to the halting problem in the general.
09:39 asciilifeform tru
09:39 asciilifeform the only algo that 'solves all problems, permanently' is eating nagant.
09:40 mircea_popescu for that matter, halting problem is an excellent model for this, because it can always be phrased as "well, am i done thinking and ready to act or will think some more ?"
09:40 mircea_popescu which is exactly the halting problem.
09:41 mircea_popescu and in this model, pressure = value * runtime.
09:41 asciilifeform most folks not only do not have this problem, but 'think? what's that'
09:42 mircea_popescu im sure they don't.
09:42 asciilifeform oh this turd is full of lelz,
09:42 asciilifeform 'Auernheimer replied to Patterson's thread, saying "plagiarism is a more serious allegation than rape to me personally... The bug Jake stole from Len was awesome. Once in a lifetime kind of stuff. Irreplaceable." American journalist Quinn Norton later also claimed involvement in plagiarism disputes with Appelbuam. They have yet to directly specify, or present evidence of, what work he plagiarised. In Patterson's case she probably won
09:42 asciilifeform 't ever do so, since she's already told Leidl (who challenged how she defined 'plagiarism') that "when research that gets stolen was only communicated about orally, there is no paper trail." Kaminsky, one of the alleged victims, was also unwilling to provide details. Cryptocat developer Nadim Kobeissi has also argued with Appelbaum in the past with regards to attribution rights, but outside of one tweet on the subject has stayed out
09:42 asciilifeform of the debate because he "thought a bit more about things and decided I had better things to emotionally invest myself in than an angry riot."'
09:43 mircea_popescu almost anything is more serious than "using the tools in the manner they were designed without the alleged owner's permission".
09:44 mircea_popescu however, plagiarism is hardly a thing in the first place. so no.
09:44 asciilifeform i find the the choice of weapon in this firing squad interesting.
09:45 mircea_popescu i can't be arsed to follow. i trust we're satisfied with that quote for the entire thing ?
09:45 asciilifeform the 'plagiarism' thing appears to be based on usg's psychological portrait of the schmuck
09:45 asciilifeform recall chowdhra or what was his name
09:45 mircea_popescu the chicago "professor" ?
09:45 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-15#1324569 <<
09:45 a111 Logged on 2015-11-15 01:17 mircea_popescu: i have this pile of very secret derpage here including the very expert "profile" of some random derp explaining how an elderly, principled gentleman is perhaps going to react crazily to the crass injustice of this entire scheme.
09:47 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-15#1324558 better link
09:47 a111 Logged on 2015-11-15 01:11 mircea_popescu: maybe there's something juicy in there like you know, plagiarism (for sure there is), and like mathematica stealing of stuff from people (almost willing to bet)
09:47 asciilifeform anyway rest of the dump consists of details re ready-baked 'victims' who, when pressed, would zip lips and pout, organizations from which a. was expelled, etc.
09:48 mircea_popescu teh easy-bake victim oven
09:49 asciilifeform most prolific bake yet.
09:49 asciilifeform i can picture hitler 'we made 20 rapees for assange - great. now let's try 200 ...'
09:51 asciilifeform https://pad.riseup.net/p/87Mazw3Jsdfe_pm/timeslider#11 << multistory lul tower. for instance, i had no idea what is 'riseup' until its pgp keys began to pop.
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09:52 asciilifeform the lolmonkey in question is, as i gather, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-18#1468111
09:52 a111 Logged on 2016-05-18 21:21 mircea_popescu: $google agora lovecruft
09:52 mircea_popescu iirc "riseup" astroturf was lulzed at in logs.
09:52 asciilifeform https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html << her www.
09:53 mircea_popescu maybe not.
09:56 asciilifeform let's posit that not.
09:56 asciilifeform the choice of victim, for the machine, is very peculiar imho.
09:56 asciilifeform just as the appelbaum thing.
09:56 asciilifeform dafuq are their skins worth to anybody ?
09:57 asciilifeform the (much-exaggerated) sufferings of greenwald come to mind.
09:58 asciilifeform is this basic game of 'we'll poshly auto-de-fe idiots, but quietly ignore actual opponents, see if we can breed the former to displace all oxygen for the latter' ?
10:03 mircea_popescu for all you know it could be parochial "i've heard of thieves but not the plague, hence should build thief wall not plague wall"
10:16 mircea_popescu in other lulz : russia and japan still technically in ww2, never agreed on kuriles partition
10:25 asciilifeform and north, south kr, never signed a peace likewise.
10:26 mircea_popescu aaaand the bering strait is still unpartitioned
10:26 asciilifeform plenty of this.
10:27 asciilifeform as well as of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1511945 ( e.g., taiwan )
10:27 a111 Logged on 2016-08-01 00:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1511937 << oh, "color revolutions" dun work ? tell you what, we'll steal your country's exports and with the proceeds finance an alt-country we'll pretend is realy your country. ha-ha!
10:32 asciilifeform to round off the appelbaum thread, https://archive.is/2mePQ << lolcow with opposite electric charge.
10:33 mircea_popescu good riddance. fucking sore, that thing.
10:33 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/cia-factbook-the-most-serene-republic/ << Trilema - CIA Factbook : The Most Serene Republic
10:35 mircea_popescu oh also asciilifeform , you were asking what "pressure" is.
10:35 mircea_popescu well... there you go. fine example.
10:35 * asciilifeform reads.
10:35 mircea_popescu rotten shitstack collapsed like a rotten shitstack the moment as much as a mild breeze of lolrape blew its way.
10:35 asciilifeform or is this in re appelbaum
10:35 mircea_popescu it is.
10:35 asciilifeform ah
10:36 mircea_popescu "tor project", aka a bunch of nobodies posturing loudly, tolerated as temporary willing astroturf cover for a nsa project.
10:36 asciilifeform i don't know the fella personally, but afaik he has not seppukued
10:36 mircea_popescu the willingness of the idiots to be used as condoms is nothing short of staggering, even if it comes up in logs periodically.
10:36 asciilifeform ( but also has not burned down any usg infrastructure )
10:37 asciilifeform ah 'shitstack collapsed' was re tor.
10:37 mircea_popescu yes.
10:38 mircea_popescu compare an' contrast the whole "oh, mp really really needs bitbet funds so he'll retract de facto" "oh wait, shit omg" campaign this spring.
10:40 * mircea_popescu is looking forward to the "mp raped me and wrote messages to aliens on my tits" campaigns to come, once the present generation of herders that earned a clue in battle retire and a new generation of socialmedia tards / paul biggars takes over the "full spectrum dominance" idiotmobile.
10:42 asciilifeform eh, mircea_popescu preemptively turned that knob to '11' with own hands, if it is turned any further it will probably come off.
10:42 mircea_popescu strategic superiority. it's a saga.
10:53 mircea_popescu incidentally, what is with the redditarded generation, that whenever they have to do one of these important, man-talks-to-world, "soul searching" pieces they always come off as utter dweebs speaking in a dreary monotone about really trivial, boring minutia ?
10:53 mircea_popescu ever since http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/ i can't shake the feeling all these, age irrespective, gender irrespective, are really the same community-college educated, chronic masturbator.
10:54 mircea_popescu chartered accountants / lion tamers, for chrissakes.
10:55 mircea_popescu schmuck seriously thinks "creating a website" "is beyond terrible". really ? and hanging her by her own fallopian tubes is what then ? beyond-beyond-horrible ?
10:55 mircea_popescu no sense of proportion, like they got a coupla octopus eyes.
10:56 asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 imho 'vdiff' ought to zap 'minus' changes in cases where an entire file turns 'FALSE' (absent) - they take up space for no reason, given as we display a hash in the --- entry. what do you think ?
10:56 gribble The operation succeeded.
10:56 asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 i came to this by attempting vdiff of gnupg 1.4.10 vs their .21 release from wednesday, and ending up with an unreadable 8MB turd, they moved/rm'd a buncha files.
↖
10:56 gribble The operation succeeded.
10:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ever use an auto-ranging instrument, e.g., post-1980s voltmeter ?
10:58 mircea_popescu yes.
10:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what you are seeing is same effect.
10:58 asciilifeform the moment derp's universe begins to include fallopian hangings, perspective will readjust.
10:58 mircea_popescu mno. because after being used for microamps, the item reverts to miliamps when exposed to miliamps.
10:58 mircea_popescu well... but it just did.
10:58 mircea_popescu that's the objection. they try to import terminology born of 9gag and at home on 9gag into actual discourse about their actual lives.
10:59 asciilifeform did i miss something, she is in your cellar hanging right now, or wut.
10:59 mircea_popescu in her own words.
10:59 mircea_popescu "But what happened is so unfair to so many people, in so many ways, that I cannot keep this for me." << this counts as "i raise my arms, to either kill or be killed, but to no longer continue this life"
10:59 mircea_popescu then what follows is inane dribble.
11:01 asciilifeform ahahahaha, this is gold:
11:01 asciilifeform ~/gnupg-1.4.10 $ grep -i -r weimer *
11:01 asciilifeform AUTHORS:Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> Assigns past and future changes
11:01 asciilifeform ChangeLog: * README: Some typo fixes from Florian Weimer, and bump version
11:01 asciilifeform doc/ChangeLog: * gpg.sgml: Small typo fixes by Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform g10/ChangeLog: --default-cert-expire options. Suggested by Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform g10/ChangeLog: the new iobuf_skip_reset. Orginal patch by Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform g10/ChangeLog: Reported by Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform g10/ChangeLog: Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform g10/ChangeLog: ones being refreshed. Noted by Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform mpi/ChangeLog: not stored in w. Suggested by Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform THANKS:Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
11:01 asciilifeform util/ChangeLog: Weimer. Added new argument PARTIAL.
11:01 asciilifeform util/ChangeLog: Florian Weimer.
11:01 asciilifeform ^ in case anyone did not know this.
11:01 mod6 hi
11:01 mircea_popescu hola.
11:02 mod6 :]
11:02 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/b385a4e6-836d-4829-b157-d157b09c5a4f/?raw=true << and the drepper grep, is too long to take up log space !
11:02 mod6 i'll work on an estimate for the 2015 time spent (for me at least).
11:02 asciilifeform mod6 !
11:02 mircea_popescu mod6 don't spend more than 15 minutes on it.
11:02 mod6 <asciilifeform> imho 'vdiff' ought to zap 'minus' changes in cases where an entire file turns 'FALSE' (absent) - they take up space for no reason, given as we display a hash in the --- entry. what do you think ? << ah... ok. let me think about the impact of such a change here.
11:03 mod6 mircea_popescu: gotcha. i've got a number in mind already.
11:03 asciilifeform mod6: in traditional diff, turning a deleted turd into a massive ball of minus is arguably necessary, to prevent patch from applying to arbitary item
11:03 asciilifeform mod6: but in the case of vdiff, there is no use for it, it simply makes patch unreadable.
11:04 asciilifeform (incidentally i have nfi whether gnu patch util will apply a patch that simply 'FALSE'-s a deleted file, without the minusola.)
11:04 mod6 yeah, there is that part too.
11:04 mircea_popescu "The first thing I said when I saw this website, is that Shari failed. She knew people (many datapoints indicate the site creators are Alison and Isis) were about to do this. How could she let this happen? I am strongly wondering if this was really about protecting women. Here's what I noticed: I am a woman, and I estimate that more than half of the Tor core people know I was dating him, or at least close to him. If Tor belie
11:04 mircea_popescu ved there was victims, why did no one ask if I had bad experiences with Jake? This would have been easy given that Alison spent an hour alone with me in a cafe at the last TorDev meeting and had several communication channels with me. Also I have been at Isis' place several times in the last months as I am dating her roommate Brennan" <<< MOTHERFUCKER. so what, i'm to watch low rent reruns of beverly hills 90201 now ? da fuck!
11:05 mircea_popescu oh, really, what did brenda do ? oh no she didn't! that hussy!
11:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/ImDmM << bonus. this is... shari.
11:06 mircea_popescu noty,
11:06 mircea_popescu i can't begin to give a shit about people with no parents.
11:06 asciilifeform photo.
11:06 asciilifeform candidate for BingoBoingo's collection.
11:06 mircea_popescu was "shari" born a man or a poodle ?
11:07 asciilifeform i could not possibly say.
11:07 asciilifeform perhaps as a toilet brush.
11:07 mircea_popescu aaanyway. not all graves are worth the stream of piss, and in the case of tor i'm well spent.
11:08 asciilifeform the bizarre autolysis is kinda interesting to me.
11:08 asciilifeform what did these folks see themselves as having been ~doing~ all of this time.
11:09 mircea_popescu see, that's the thing with plowing flies : for as long as the plow appears to plow, they imagine their clicking through lolpics and whatever-not-irc-chat nonsense is "work"
11:09 mircea_popescu once nsa runs out of budget for the project, they are still... "working", just as they did before.
11:10 mircea_popescu to shari, brenda, cher and madonna whatever, the notion that anything changed is entirely foreign. they'll quite not understand the source of derision eg above, and imagine, to quote, "Author seems to have an axe to grind."
11:10 asciilifeform https://archive.is/2CprW << i wonder how this lolcow is paid. per-lol ?
11:11 mircea_popescu back in the tardstalk glory days of 2012 it was "because competition!!!", but by now that nonsensical coverup has been disposed with.
11:11 mircea_popescu "he did it also" ?
11:12 asciilifeform 'i was there, i did it!' -- al gore, 9/12/01
11:12 mircea_popescu check out the retrospectively-done-it-all man.
11:14 asciilifeform incidentally, mr. lolcow just gave away, unwittingly, another gpg laugh - recall what else comes out of rng when you generate key, after the primes ?
11:14 asciilifeform aha, the symmetric key for ciphering the privkey for storage.
11:14 asciilifeform you read it here phirst (tm) (r)
11:15 mircea_popescu heh. "Five minutes later, Burnett called back and said, “I don’t believe you actually represent her.”¹ Burnett stated additionally that a phone call from me might suffice, but that the FBI preferred to meet with me in person. After a pause he said, “But… if we happen to run into her on the street, we’re gonna be asking her some questions without you present.”" << "That's fine. And if she happens to run into som
11:15 mircea_popescu e of your aqents on the street, you'll be recognizing them on youtube, by how their liver and spleen squirms."
11:15 asciilifeform (or was it derived wholly from pw ? i suppose i oughta read the thing, later.)
11:15 mircea_popescu iirc it's pw-based aes
11:16 asciilifeform looks like.
11:16 asciilifeform (rng is also used in primality test, but it is switched into 'fast' gear and doesn't use the pool)
11:17 mircea_popescu incidentally... the primality tests, being probabilistic, are already bs.
11:17 asciilifeform incidentally, the traditional pattern of 'push this button for zero security' is everywhere present.
11:17 mircea_popescu AND moreover, most of that legendary mb of entropy should go into the primality test, not into the prime gen
11:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc the runtime on the one known deterministic test (saxena's algo) is prohibitive.
11:18 mircea_popescu define "prohibitive".
11:18 mircea_popescu "your key will take a week to check on a contemporary box" "this is fine"
11:19 asciilifeform iirc, best variant that does not introduce an unproven conjecture runs in O(log n) ^ 6.
11:21 mircea_popescu (log 4096) ^ 6 ~=2k. now what's o ?
11:22 asciilifeform you mean, what is the constant multiplicand ?
11:23 mircea_popescu something, so i can put this in numbers.
11:23 asciilifeform i have nfi, it would be interesting to determine it.
11:23 asciilifeform it would depend on an actual physical implementation
11:23 mircea_popescu loose upper bound would suffice.
11:23 mircea_popescu next-degree of magnitude even.
11:25 asciilifeform http://arxiv.org/abs/1311.3785 << possibly of interest.
11:26 asciilifeform (interest in the subj is slim, on account of miller-rabin probabilistic test provably converging - i.e. probability of catastrophic failure can be made smaller than probability of machine flattened by asteroid the same night)
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11:26 asciilifeform the ~implementation~ of the latter in gpg - is other question entirely.
11:27 mircea_popescu hence my comment re entropy and its use.
11:27 asciilifeform aks isn't a hog because of entropy-eating
11:28 mircea_popescu r-m needs entropy seed neh ?
11:28 asciilifeform it - yes
11:28 mircea_popescu is what i meant.
11:28 asciilifeform though funnily enough koch didn't pump ~that~ entropy from the whitened pool
11:28 mircea_popescu and no, obd does not need 1mb, or beenfit from it. point was - if you're going to use spare entropy, it would be for this rather than too much waltzing or w/e.
11:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and bitcoin had "its database replaced" ; except "wallet still uses dbd"
11:29 mircea_popescu there's layers to these dudes' "improvements"
11:29 asciilifeform witness the sheer inherent sad in, e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524029
11:29 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 04:05 asciilifeform: char *p = get_random_bits( nbits, randomlevel, secret )
11:29 asciilifeform why is there 'randomlevel' and 'secret' flag ?
11:30 mircea_popescu im ill equipped to cut through the inanity of gnupg.
11:30 asciilifeform answer given, of course, is 'conserve SCARCE, PRECIOUS' entropy.
11:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this item re-appears in every single sad crypto proggy.
11:30 asciilifeform for pc.
11:30 asciilifeform since the dark ages, and up.
11:31 asciilifeform 'oh we can't have keygen take a week, and besides, who will sit and wiggle the mouse.'
11:31 mircea_popescu sigh.
11:31 asciilifeform re, aks, if mircea_popescu can't be arsed to wade through the linked piece,
11:31 asciilifeform 'The very fact that the check for whether the number 9965468763136528274628451 is prime ( in Table 5.3 ) took as much as around 70 minutes shows how inefficient it is.'
11:32 mircea_popescu the definition of this "efficient" is suspicious.
11:33 asciilifeform it also helps to remember that there is no such actual thing as a fully deterministic algo for a physical machine.
11:33 mircea_popescu by definition, the efficiency of the single given method to do anything is always 100%
11:33 asciilifeform i.e. there is always a - calculable - chance that your result bit uncorrectedly flips right before you read it.
11:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform which is the reasoning here - yes rm can be made to converge. so what's it hurt to have another test ?
11:34 asciilifeform there are other probabilistic tests, which also converge.
11:34 asciilifeform and i'd personally love a deterministic test that doesn't take 4 years of cpu for a 2048-bit mod.
11:36 asciilifeform if crypto-academia were something like a going concern, rather than elaborate circle wank, we might actually have had one.
11:36 mircea_popescu true.
11:37 mircea_popescu but i dunno exactly how loing it'd take ; and i suspect not THAT long.
11:37 mircea_popescu moreover, subtle errors in technology are best made evident with radically different approaches. "have both deterministic and non deterministic tests, notwithstanding IT IS PROVEN the latter converges" is substantially the same thought process as produced phuctor.
11:38 asciilifeform if phuctor took 4 yrs/key, it would not be of much interest.
11:38 mircea_popescu i just mean the part where "everyone knows the moduli don't factor" "oh look they do"
11:39 asciilifeform (witness, even the '2 minutes per key' was rather too long to be of use.)
11:39 mircea_popescu it was however the basis of later stuff that WAS of use.
11:39 asciilifeform conceptually.
11:39 mircea_popescu yes conceptually.
11:40 asciilifeform http://cs.stackexchange.com/a/23360 << take with grain of salt, but possibly related.
11:41 asciilifeform i'd like to know from where he got the figure - no source is cited.
11:41 mircea_popescu so yes, vijay menon claimed in 2013 that his implementation of agrawal-kayal-saxena took 5k seconds for a 25 digit number ; and consequently we could expect as much as 1 minute/bit or cca 4k minutes for a tmrs-rsa key.
11:41 mircea_popescu which is 4 days, and not much concern. right ?
11:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it isn't linear
11:42 mircea_popescu no, and it's not a scalar either, it's an estimation.
11:42 asciilifeform also, mircea_popescu's airgap unit runs for 4 days in its cage ? i cannot boast of this.
11:42 asciilifeform that's the other thing - when you're massaging your key, you are also radiating it.
11:42 asciilifeform continuously.
11:43 mircea_popescu mno. you primality-test the N.
11:43 mircea_popescu no key.
11:43 asciilifeform holy shit mircea_popescu
11:43 asciilifeform n isn't ever prime
11:43 mircea_popescu oh damn it'll just say composite won't it.
11:43 mircea_popescu mmkay.
11:43 asciilifeform (though it would not astonish me if some keys in my collection had a prime n. devil knows i've seen every ~other~ deformity.)
11:44 mircea_popescu lol
11:44 mircea_popescu for some reason i was thinking it's going to return a factor. dun ask me.
11:44 PeterL will return p and q
11:44 asciilifeform it'd be hilarious
11:45 asciilifeform would mean that popping rsa is in P
11:45 asciilifeform and we wouldn't be having this thread.
11:45 asciilifeform just like we aren't having a thread about testing strength of knapsack keys.
11:45 mircea_popescu "here, download docker, configure orchestrator, push this butonetor and write your number. the restful interface will return a bevy of young ladies with the factors written in mascara on their tits."
11:47 asciilifeform i've been told that nsa castle of doom actually suffers from the same profusion of 'dockers', etc. as typical american software co.
11:47 mircea_popescu this is factual.
11:47 asciilifeform and employs several battalions of www dev types.
11:47 mircea_popescu a good chunk of the leaks are due to retarded client-server architectures deployued for no conceivable reason which they don't know how to secure
11:48 mircea_popescu the lulziest part being that they've been aware of this for years and don't know how to fix it.
11:48 asciilifeform at one point, pentagon had a physically-separate wan, for seekrits
11:48 asciilifeform then it was deemed impractical, to have separate fibers run in unmarked pipes, set in cement, around entire continent
11:49 asciilifeform not to mention oceans
11:49 asciilifeform so they 'fudged', and began piping traffic over conventional net, symmetrically crypted
11:49 asciilifeform with multitude of bridges, etc.
11:49 asciilifeform and, as i understand, the rest of it - flowed from this.
11:50 asciilifeform sorta like those centurions who threw out the armour, 'too heavy'
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11:50 asciilifeform ( there was a mircea_popescu piece ... somewhere )
11:54 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=834829 << 'gpg-agent'
~ 43 minutes ~
12:37 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the brave young world of microshit-flavoured (yes) open-sores, https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/pull/1901
12:38 asciilifeform q: 'remove curl and wget aliases #1901. They block use of the commonly used command line tools without providing even an attempt to offer the same functionality. They serve no purpose for PowerShell users but cause confusion and problems to existing curl and wget users.'
12:38 asciilifeform a: 'We are rejecting this PR as it introduces "Unacceptable Changes", see our breaking change contract. If you disagree with this resolution, you will need to start an RFC. Note that our RFC process currently states only team members may create a new RFC. Our intent is to open this up to the community at large, we'll be updating that repo very soon to clarify.'
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12:39 asciilifeform q: 'You adding them was "a breaking change" to people who were used to using curl and wget from their command lines. No sane person would use those alises anyway since your replacements for curl and wget aren't working anywhere near like the original curl and wget command line tools. These aliases are only making the life harder of the users who actually want the real tools and they don't do anything good for those who don't care for
12:39 asciilifeform the real tools.'
12:39 asciilifeform a: 'We're not saying here that this isn't a change we can investigate, but per our governance model we need to have a conversation around it. The impact of this change would be far-reaching, and it's not one we can make lightly.'
12:39 asciilifeform gold.
12:41 asciilifeform and yes, apparently microshit implemented a turd that takes ~none of the commands eaten by actual curl OR wget, but is symlinked to BOTH names.
12:47 phf i for one am looking forward to many lulz delivered by powershell fraction of linux on desktop koomoounity
12:49 phf are they going to integrate many lulz of systemd? are they going to do more dodgy shit, with nameless anons ripping hair on chest with indignation? are they going to coexist with freedesktop community, kind of like how one huckster can always recognize another, and keep each other at respectful distance until there's an opportunity for an underhanded move
12:51 asciilifeform the ~aimed~ endgame, we already knew in 1990s, Official Microshit Linux, with all of the idiocies in one pot, and nothing else will boot on new comp, because signing key in fritz chip.
12:52 asciilifeform ~how~ it will be achieved, is still an open question.
12:52 asciilifeform currently they have folks sawing in convergent directions, microshitians to 'linuxize', embrace, extend, e.g., the powershell derps; and poetterings to winblowiate linuxland, e.g., systemd.
12:53 asciilifeform it stands to reason that at some point the saw blades will reach the middle.
12:54 asciilifeform how many users left today of 'terrorist' os, where you can (and must) rebuild ALL of the binaries locally ?
12:54 asciilifeform (e.g., gentoo, openbsd)
12:54 asciilifeform 1000? 100 ?
12:56 phf well, i'm more interested in mechanics of it all, since i don't believe in lizard hitler. do thugs of both camps meet at the canteen and measure each other up? are they going to embrace mutual scam wholeheartedly? are they going to try and undermine each other in subtle ways?
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12:56 asciilifeform do termites have an architect who directs demolition of a house ?
12:57 asciilifeform or do they just chew.
12:57 PeterL do ants and termites get together to agree on how to demolish house?
12:58 phf we're on the same page, but purely from entomology perspective, i, for example, don't know how two competing groups of termites behave when joining forces.
12:58 asciilifeform point was that they do not need to
12:58 asciilifeform but will naturally gravitate to fresh-looking opposite ends of a column to chew.
12:58 phf well, that'll make for a dull show :>
12:59 phf fwiw, i suspect there's as many users of terrorist os as there were in the 90s, or as little. just a lot more users of microshit variety, and also users of obuntus and such, that scew the picture
13:00 asciilifeform re hitler, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-14#922393 << see also.
13:00 a111 Logged on 2014-11-14 22:24 asciilifeform: (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.)
13:00 asciilifeform phf: did you miss the gpg2 thread ?
13:01 asciilifeform 'box where i built EVER bin' is significantly taller order today than in, say, 1998.
13:01 asciilifeform *EVERY
13:04 phf you just forgot how it was in '98. you now have wider range of available shit, so it's the snr that has changed. there was definitely a peak free software where available range also had max hacker value, i.e. intangible quality of buildable, inspectable, etc. but before that free software was kind of shit with a lot of dyi required.
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13:04 asciilifeform still is.
13:05 asciilifeform (and many of the 'solutions' to 'diy required', such as automake, are evil.)
13:06 phf i'd say peak free software happened around same time when drivers were still a massive problem. when i moved to this country somebody gave me a g3 ibook, which i used for years to run linux (until i finally caved and switched to os x). i remember spending as much time on my fvwm as i did patching orinoco drivers. in fact my first massive foray into kernel hacking was getting those orinoco drivers to work for specific combination of
13:06 phf ibook/wifi.
13:09 asciilifeform the drivers thing is yet another problem that was never actually solved
13:09 asciilifeform but instead 'solved' with vendor blobs.
13:09 phf true
13:09 asciilifeform and horrors of the cthonian deep, such as real mode bios callouts (as in x11), or acpi crapolade.
13:10 asciilifeform folks labour under delusion that the problems of 'dawn of linux' were solved. they were not.
13:10 asciilifeform and if you start seriously pulling on it, the duct tape - WILL come off.
13:10 mats https://theintercept.com/2016/08/19/the-nsa-was-hacked-snowden-documents-confirm << snowden continues to shape the narrative about western intel agencies
13:12 asciilifeform mats: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524762 << see also.
13:12 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 19:17 asciilifeform: https://coldwardaily.com/2016/08/17/shadow-brokers-nsa-exploits-doubts-about-edward-snowdens-tweets << meanwhile somebody asks the obvious q.
13:12 asciilifeform and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523002 .
13:12 a111 Logged on 2016-08-17 05:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1522996 << yeah, i yield the point ; seems alf's theory prevails. at some point the guy was gutted, the skin made hand puppet.
13:13 asciilifeform ;;later tell PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525032 << for a spell i did not figure out what was meant, but then, http://www.laboyglass.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/m/hmd011903.jpg !!
13:13 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 12:39 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524397 << this thing is informally known as a MFP - if you flip it upside down it looks just like a "man fucking pig" (and grad students find humor in the weirdest things)
13:13 gribble The operation succeeded.
13:14 phf the guy who invented tiling window managers (tuomo valkonen, he wrote Ion, that nobody probably remembers at this point), quit linux in 2005 or so over exactly these things. his pet peve was all the retardation that was going into x11 as part of linux on desktop movement. of course back then people laughed at him, etc.
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13:14 PeterL It's one of those things where once you see it you can never unsee it
13:15 mats its unclear to me why wikileaks is so ready to serve ru interests
13:15 * asciilifeform remembers 'ion' very well.
13:15 mats is it so simple as - fuck usg?
13:15 * phf brb
13:16 asciilifeform mats: demolition of usg serves interests of all sane people on the globe, yes, even in moscow
13:16 asciilifeform even abos in australia, nameless savages in amazon forest, chukchas in the godforsaken arctic circle. them also.
13:19 mats these others will be oppressed until they dun exist, usg or not
13:20 asciilifeform lol mats , https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3031644-FOXACID-Server-SOP-Redacted.html censored, as usual.
13:20 mats they want that to change, gotta stop being useless
13:20 asciilifeform mats: nobody gives a fuck re 'oppressed'. a bullet in the head of maniac with axe is a gift to everyone he might have otherwise run into, regardless of whether possibly somewhere there are others like him, not yet shot.
13:21 mats just saying, people that don't contribute anything don't get to have an opinion
13:22 mats ecuadorian indigenous peoples are ideally slowly starving to death on whatever subsistence farming they're doing
13:22 asciilifeform preferable to growing fat on conditional mcdonalds.
13:22 PeterL https://www.anony.ws/image/NZrl
13:23 asciilifeform PeterL: aha.
13:25 mats this item looks like something i saw in an amateur chemist's setup, guy was making 'wax', thc concentrates
↖
13:25 asciilifeform what i don't get is why the thing needs to be a unitary piece of glass
13:26 asciilifeform we distilled when i went to school, rig looked entirely like this but made of jointed condenser, tubes, etc. that were from standard kit.
13:26 asciilifeform is it really so painful to grease joints ?
13:26 PeterL the "short" in "short path distilation" is easier to get with one piece than if you have to use part of length for connectors
13:26 asciilifeform and how the fuck do you wash the 'pigfuck' tool.
13:26 asciilifeform hm i suppose that makes sense.
13:27 PeterL and less likely to leak if fewer joints to finangle
13:27 asciilifeform (i still have nfi how one cleans, e.g., a soxhlet)
13:27 PeterL washes easily enough, run solvent through from either direction
13:28 PeterL jab a brush in from either pig face or guy head
13:28 * asciilifeform can picture this.
13:28 PeterL whenever I used soxhlet, I clean by dumping copious amounts of solvent into it from various angles
13:29 asciilifeform 'MistyVeal cannot call out on the network on its own. It piggybacks on Internet Explorer to call out on the network. ... If a target is using FireFox and has MistyVeal on the box, MistyVeal does nothing.'
13:30 asciilifeform for srs?
13:30 asciilifeform mats what a snore.
13:30 mats your link or the amateur chemist?
13:31 asciilifeform the foxacid dump
13:31 asciilifeform from mats's link
13:37 thestringpuller http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525409 << well the jig is up.
13:37 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 17:25 mats: this item looks like something i saw in an amateur chemist's setup, guy was making 'wax', thc concentrates
13:38 PeterL speaking of soxhlet, would that help the thc enthusiast to get more out of their materials?
13:39 thestringpuller maybe? once you do fractional distallation the product is like 99% active ingredient
13:39 mats idk what your intention is but ownership and operation of that equipment is a massive liability
13:39 mats you're not poor, just go buy it
13:40 thestringpuller but for science?
13:40 thestringpuller So I'm finally interested in chemistry and now there is a war on science?
13:40 PeterL maybe thestringpuller does not trust the guys trying to sell him stuff, needs to make of known purity?
13:41 thestringpuller PeterL: partially. They use butane solvents for the initial extract on the east coast cause higher yields, but butane sucks.
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13:41 thestringpuller If you make edibles with it, it'll make you constipated.
13:41 PeterL yeesh, I wouldn't want to consume something extracted with butane!
13:41 asciilifeform thestringpuller: what is the point of extracting it ?
13:42 thestringpuller I have asthma so for me personally less irritatoin on lungs for greater affect. I use it medicinally in combination with other focus medications.
13:42 thestringpuller effect*
13:42 mats i'm not responsible for the war on science, just telling you its a thing
13:42 thestringpuller mats: I know. It makes me sad. They just want everyone to be dumb :(
13:44 mats you can recook the stuff if you're worried about butane
13:44 asciilifeform thestringpuller may recall a recent thread on american dope laws, where if someone is found with, e.g., extract in intermediate (still dilute) stage, the sentence will be as if entire volume of liquid were the pure dope.
13:44 mats exactly this
13:45 asciilifeform for extra lulz.
13:45 mats plus you're in the perfect demographic
13:45 mats this has bad idea written all over it
13:45 thestringpuller hey. don't have to preach to me about dope laws.
13:45 asciilifeform this tends to happen, interestingly, fairly often, as recrystallization takes a while
13:45 asciilifeform esp for folks lacking a source of vacuum and drying in the sun etc.
13:46 thestringpuller as dave chappelle says, we know the dope laws like lawyers. everytime we do something felonious, an old black dude pops out and says, "hey nigga thats 10-20"
13:46 thestringpuller that's why the trap house is never at your mom's house
13:46 asciilifeform i found the detail interesting because usg exempts itself by decree from conservation of mass...
13:46 asciilifeform (why not also gravity?)
13:47 thestringpuller in a lab scenario when the DEA is busting in they just want to fuck you as much as they can because "FREE MONEY"
13:47 asciilifeform so, as i understand, if arrestee were carrying extract in his pocket, and it were to rain, and the water pools in the pocket... he will be tried for entire mass, original + rainwater.
13:47 thestringpuller Yup!
13:48 thestringpuller But the actuality is no one rolls around with more than maybe a half gram of extract.
13:48 asciilifeform in fact, iirc it is no longer even necessary to have actual dope, there are folks doing time for packets of sugar and flour.
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13:48 thestringpuller Most of the time law enforcement is like "what is this? maple syrup?!?"
13:49 thestringpuller asciilifeform: did I ever tell you the story of how my old college mentor, got raided for Meth. And somehow through self representation was able to get the charges reduced to misdemeanors?
13:50 asciilifeform i don't recall it in the logz
13:51 asciilifeform mats: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3031638-Select-Slides-FINAL-PMR-4-24-13-Redacted.html << lulzy. idiot orcs.
13:51 asciilifeform Run Moar Winblowz.
13:52 thestringpuller well old mentor of mine found sleep to be his number one enemy. so he decided to just be on stimulants 24/7 and sleep minimally while staying up late programming assembly code or some non-sense. d00d is as insane as he is smart. okay anyhow he bought this condo, and at the time he was a Ph.D candidate and was like "Meth is awesome I hate sleep!"
13:52 thestringpuller So he started cooking it up in his condo. DEA eventually raided him.
13:53 thestringpuller Anyhow, due to shitty evidence collection, he was able to show that with expert testimonies he would likely be acquitted if it went to trial
13:53 thestringpuller so they gave him....PROBATION
13:54 asciilifeform thestringpuller: what did the 'experts' cost ?
13:54 thestringpuller he was the expert
13:54 asciilifeform first time i hear of defendant admitted as expert witness.
13:54 thestringpuller he wrote up a white paper on how one would create meth and compared it to the evidence they collected
13:55 thestringpuller i guess prosecutor didn't want to go up against an actual scientist...
13:55 asciilifeform prosecutor could have indicted him under the 'analogues act'
13:55 thestringpuller but the probation was costful
13:55 asciilifeform for 'newly discovered synthesis'
13:55 thestringpuller probably about the total cost of the product that was seized from him
13:56 thestringpuller cuz instead of serving time you pay your probation officer
13:56 mats asciilifeform: if i'm remembering these acronyms correctly, that last thing doesn't ave anything to do with windows
13:57 asciilifeform mats: inference from 1) no one has yet to publicly hear of an orc with linux desktop 2) not one piece of exploit kit related to such has yet leaked out of usg.
13:58 asciilifeform does not prove the non-existence, sure.
13:58 thestringpuller mats: i'm actually more worried about going to jail for buying bitcoin /w cash than I am anything else I do that's considered criminal activity.
13:58 asciilifeform presumably it lives in the 'interesting stuff' room, where snowden never went.
13:58 asciilifeform where the rsa-diddling is, etc.
13:59 asciilifeform thestringpuller: folks who are jailed seem almos universally ~surprised~ re for what, how, and why.
13:59 asciilifeform i am not the first to observe this.
13:59 mats thestringpuller: buy a 'volcano' vape and don't be another nigga in a cell
13:59 mats minimizing liabilities shoulda been one of the first things you learned here!
14:00 thestringpuller Oh I do. I just have not found a way to transfer BTC to cash and back without meeting someone in person.
14:00 thestringpuller I'm like highly convinced someone is gonna roll up on us one day and just take the cash.
14:01 mats set the meet at a police station like most folks on craigslist with $expensive-item
14:03 thestringpuller the police are the ones who gonna roll up and be like "We want our cut!"
14:04 thestringpuller war on cash man. you have more than 1 grand, the police take it. no questions.
14:04 thestringpuller you have a safe in your car. they take the safe and let you keep on rolling.
14:04 mats its unbelievable to me that your network is so small you can't orchestrate a btc purchase for cash
14:04 mats pay a guy - pay three. you worried about premiums or something?
14:05 mats you don't need to be there.
14:05 thestringpuller it's getting to that point :( never thought I'd have to have proxies for such an activity back in 2012
14:05 mats maybe your problem is the amounts are too small
14:05 asciilifeform lack of dirigible.
14:07 thestringpuller asciilifeform: i guess police are like dogs. throw a bone in one direction, do activity in different direction.
14:07 thestringpuller mats: i'm cheap so yea. I guess that's my future - "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems"
14:12 asciilifeform https://youtu.be/pEp9d1bUTec?t=9m45s << in other noose, orlol seems to agree with mircea_popescu re american police.
14:12 mats asciilifeform: right, but nato does.
14:12 mats french parliament has 'ubuntu desktops', luls
14:13 mats anyways, i await next chapter of snowden-ru cooperation, where they leak evidence of usg direct action against civilian nato target
14:14 asciilifeform iirc this came long ago
14:14 asciilifeform (french ? isp, or swiss, or who was it.)
14:14 mats the surveilling bits of bnd and merkel?
14:14 asciilifeform and them.
14:16 mircea_popescu onoes logs
14:17 asciilifeform https://youtu.be/pEp9d1bUTec?t=13m06s << aaaand mr o reads, i suspect, the l0gz.
14:17 mats merkel is military target, imo
14:17 mats but this distinction is also useless, so imma shut up
14:18 mircea_popescu how the fuck is the head of civilian government at peace "military target"
14:18 mircea_popescu what are you, hitler ?
14:19 mircea_popescu (and what would be the definition of "rogue state" other than that ? "people we don't like" ?)
14:19 PeterL are they at peace?
14:19 mircea_popescu germany ?
14:20 PeterL or are they part of the general USG war on everything?
14:20 mircea_popescu as far as the usg is concerned, germany is at peace, and moreover, an ally.
14:20 mircea_popescu the real situation doesn't enter into this, the fictitious situation as presented by usg is the basis.
14:20 mats asciilifeform: i recall a 'belgacom' operation perpetrated by uk
14:20 mircea_popescu they want merkel to be a military target, best declare war to germany first.
14:21 PeterL the US does not declare war anymore, they just start blowing stuff up. (last US declaration of war was WWII)
14:21 asciilifeform it it even correct to use word 'target' for a willing muppet
14:22 asciilifeform (has merkel ordered, e.g., all usg snoops caught in her palace shot ? why not ?)
14:22 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525339 << the problem being deeper : contrary to pretense, the us military is just not that important. much like the knight became relatively irrelevant, much like the "nuclear threat" consisted muchly of circus, etc.
14:22 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 15:50 asciilifeform: sorta like those centurions who threw out the armour, 'too heavy'
14:22 mircea_popescu it's hard to keep people impressed when you got nothing.
14:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the muppet also dun enter into it.
14:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525344 << ok this was pretty lulzy.
14:23 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 16:38 asciilifeform: a: 'We are rejecting this PR as it introduces "Unacceptable Changes", see our breaking change contract. If you disagree with this resolution, you will need to start an RFC. Note that our RFC process currently states only team members may create a new RFC. Our intent is to open this up to the community at large, we'll be updating that repo very soon to clarify.'
14:23 mircea_popescu "our core mission is to shit on specified names. ha-ha."
14:24 mircea_popescu governance model, listen to random indian go. "we" and "governance model".
14:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525359 << if experience is any guide, they're going to fuck and regret it, then start complicated psychodramas of no interest and then fizzle away into liverjournal.
14:26 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 16:56 phf: well, i'm more interested in mechanics of it all, since i don't believe in lizard hitler. do thugs of both camps meet at the canteen and measure each other up? are they going to embrace mutual scam wholeheartedly? are they going to try and undermine each other in subtle ways?
14:27 mats yes am hitler
14:28 mircea_popescu can i has titpic ?
14:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525373 << im with him. it's not altogether clear that the shit of today is any worse than the utter shit of 1990s. contrary to what the fans believe, stupid shit never worked worth a damn.
14:28 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 17:04 phf: you just forgot how it was in '98. you now have wider range of available shit, so it's the snr that has changed. there was definitely a peak free software where available range also had max hacker value, i.e. intangible quality of buildable, inspectable, etc. but before that free software was kind of shit with a lot of dyi required.
14:29 asciilifeform where was systemd in the '90s ?
14:30 mircea_popescu where was crypto in 90s ?
14:30 asciilifeform pretty much where it is now.
14:30 mircea_popescu so the toilet broadened. big whoop.
14:30 mircea_popescu hardly.
14:32 asciilifeform wading through megatonne of shit is a very different experience, in practice, from cleaning one small chamber pot.
14:32 asciilifeform '90s kernel was, early on, ~readable~.
14:32 asciilifeform where is that now.
14:32 mircea_popescu and ~useless.
14:32 asciilifeform approx as useful as today's.
14:33 mircea_popescu this is you : 3/4 = 9 / 12. 3 is approx 9. meanwhile 4 turned to 12!!!1
14:33 asciilifeform waiwat
14:33 mircea_popescu let's redo.
14:34 mircea_popescu reality : 3/4 = 9 / 12 ; alf-proposition-1 : "3 is approx 9". alf-proposition-2 : "meanwhile 4 turned to 12!!!1"
14:34 asciilifeform i dun get it
14:34 mircea_popescu and if pushed, alf-proposition-3 : "all numbers of the same number of digits are ~equal"
14:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ok, let's redo once more!
14:35 mircea_popescu reality : kernel-utility-3/kernel-idiocy-4 = kernel-utility-9 / kernel-idiocy-12 ; alf-proposition-1 : "3 is approx 9". alf-proposition-2 : "meanwhile 4 turned to 12!!!1"
14:36 mircea_popescu "the gap widened! from 1 to 3!"
14:37 asciilifeform when i dig for the essential core of some proggy with version history going back to '90s, typically i walk away with distinct feeling that reading the post-2003 or so tarballs was entire waste of time.
14:37 asciilifeform this - admittedly - is a subjective observation. take, or leave, whatever.
14:37 mircea_popescu this is pretty much factual.
14:37 mircea_popescu nevertheless, mp-wp did not exist in 1990s ; nor did lamp.
14:38 phf bordeaux-threads now mandates asdf >3.1, why? there's literally no reason
14:38 mircea_popescu ie, you're constructing this experiment to miss out on the stuff that didn't exist in 1990.
14:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: most of this stuff we will be, painfully, redoing from ~zero.
14:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525392 << incidentally, tiling window managers are fucking retarded.
14:38 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 17:14 phf: the guy who invented tiling window managers (tuomo valkonen, he wrote Ion, that nobody probably remembers at this point), quit linux in 2005 or so over exactly these things. his pet peve was all the retardation that was going into x11 as part of linux on desktop movement. of course back then people laughed at him, etc.
14:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i won't use anything but a tiling wm.
14:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know, so is any woman you meet. in a few brief years she'll have to be redone, by some woman, painfully, from zero.
14:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i've yet to use a "non-full-screen window" for anything.
↖
14:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: install a couple square metres of lcd and write back.
14:39 mircea_popescu "i don't need grenade pin safety for anything" "put grenade in your ass, pull it out by pin and write back"
14:39 mircea_popescu da fuck.
14:39 phf laying out terminals is nice, but i prefer how fvwm did it. "find a square of screen realestate, where i can fit it, with some tolerance"
14:40 mircea_popescu phf what the fuck is wrong with just flipping pages / adding more panels if flipping is THAT big a deal
↖
14:40 asciilifeform phf: dafuq i want with 'find a square somewhere'. i want this scrolling log RIGHT HERE, on display #3, under the other log for other boxes, and this one gets 2cm because it is not esp. important.
14:40 mircea_popescu i am seriously sitting here flipping between log and xchat, and i wouldn't care to do it another way.
14:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is not watching 45 processes.
14:41 phf so we have three different behaviors here
14:41 mircea_popescu and also not anallyzing grenades.
14:41 mircea_popescu "it would be so terribly hard and difficult to pipe all the shit into a single file and tail that omaygerd."
14:41 asciilifeform why the fuck would i want it in a single file
14:42 mircea_popescu because YOU, a single guy, IS WATCHING IT. apparently.
14:42 mircea_popescu what, you think you're 45 people ?
14:42 asciilifeform not only watching, but occasionally interacting with particular box.
14:42 mircea_popescu so switch to interact page if need be.
14:42 phf actually i had best results with multiple logs in a single file, color coded. it gives you also better understanding of time relationship between events
14:43 phf *single output
14:43 asciilifeform phf: this works when ALL you want is to tail log
14:43 mircea_popescu anyway ; anyone is free to jack off with whatever technique he prefers. let it be clearly stated though that a) underhand is perfectly valid and b) that the first time you were unsupervised as a 9yo you did it with sharpened pencils does not mean sharpened pencisl are required to jack off.
14:43 mircea_popescu phf you're telling me!
14:44 phf mircea_popescu: i work a lot better with your method, but i also sometimes like to manually drag windows around in a particular arrangement as a sort of distracted busy work. the only usecase i found for tiling wm is "full screen everything"
14:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the only thing this "tiling" bullshit does, in your case as exemplified, and in general as a matter of necessity, is that it allows you to hide your poor cognitive performance in minutious labour. IF you are encountering certain classes of problems (wood splinters in glans penis), it is because you are doing certain things wrong and should revise your process. a signal proper pagination does give you, and tiling
14:44 mircea_popescu bullshit hides from you.
14:45 mircea_popescu ~same as heroin, in practice. "oh i feel so good and relaxed"
14:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i am not interested in glomming 45 shells into one soup pot.
14:45 asciilifeform wtf.
14:45 mircea_popescu phf not like i'm saying it's verboten. heck, i fuck around with ipads on occasion. but sin does not change doctrine.
14:45 asciilifeform nor in mouse masturbation.
14:45 asciilifeform nor in wasting precious pixels on window decorations.
14:45 mircea_popescu what's the mouse to do with this ?
14:46 asciilifeform nor in windows which obscure other windows.
14:46 mircea_popescu uh.
14:47 asciilifeform flipping between, and shuffling windows, IS minutious labour.
14:48 asciilifeform that mircea_popescu grew used to it from papers on architect desk, or wherever, changes nothing.
14:50 mircea_popescu well no, technically those papers were tiled ?
14:51 asciilifeform tiled means that not one obscures not one square mm of any other.
14:51 asciilifeform and that you can navigate all of them with only eyeballs.
14:51 mircea_popescu i tell you though, whenever i came into the office of some dude who was literally fucking around with 45 different pieces of paper at the same time, i wouldn't think "oh this guy is such a super hero" but rather "ok, this guy's getting fired first."
14:52 asciilifeform aaaand that was how mircea_popescu ended up having to run his reactor himself.
14:52 asciilifeform 'for what do you need all of these gauges at the same time!'
14:53 PeterL pilot only needs one instrument at a time, why clutter cockpit?!?
14:54 asciilifeform and let's have one touch screen instead of the bunch of levers!111111
14:54 mircea_popescu you know, contrary to the tv version of blinkenlichten, in cockpit design, and ESPECIALLY for combat or any sort of emergency situation, more items are regarded as a serious liability.
14:54 asciilifeform let him set if he wants to control throttle or rudder.
14:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nobody said 'more is better.'
14:54 mircea_popescu wars have been won over army one having 3 buttons and army two having 7 buttons.
14:54 phf the point might be that a single information stream is always superior to multiple streams. the second comes from necessity (there's no time or desire to find a way to merge them, there's no analyst to merge them for you, etc.). it's always a better state when you can only have one, in which case tiling is a pointless concept. you only ever have one stream.
14:54 phf PeterL: that's actually a well known counter examples that supports the opposite of what you're trying to say
14:55 asciilifeform it remains the case that merging rudder and throttle is braindamaged, regardless of how you do it.
14:55 phf there's multiple training systems that are supposed to teach an operator how to deal with multiple inputs in high stress situations (like cockpit, or nuclear powerplant), and the techniques are all reduced to "how to perceive multiple streams as a single stream"
14:56 asciilifeform phf: likewise, i do not actually deal with the separate streams simultaneously !
14:56 mircea_popescu moreover, the point is that human brain is human brain and you're not changing it. it has ONE attention flow. you use it as best you can.
14:56 asciilifeform i simply do the work of switching, when i switch, using EYES
14:56 mircea_popescu 45 different scrolling shits aren't specifically better tyhan one.
14:56 asciilifeform instead of having to move windows.
14:57 asciilifeform i'm not interested in having ONE scroll and a bunch of 'something changed, MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHECK' blinkers.
14:57 PeterL I typically have lowest ~inch of irc visible with something else on top of it to work on
14:57 phf those techniques are seen as necessary in a situation that is suboptimal. yes, you need throttle and rudder, but it would've been better if you only had one
14:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that sounds like uniquely poor design and you should butcher the whoeverts did that to you.
14:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: describe yours ?
14:58 mircea_popescu i just did ? or what ?
14:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how do you learn when a process has produced an interesting output ?
14:58 asciilifeform polling ?
14:58 mircea_popescu but anyway, yes, phf has it, ~most if not all training for high performance human operator could be summarized as "how to merge multistream in your head"
14:58 asciilifeform i don't actually disagree with ^
14:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well it depends, what process ? maybe it'sfiltered. maybe its...
14:59 asciilifeform say, irc box.
14:59 mircea_popescu often it actually is analyst-produced, because yes, phf intuitscorrectly, the ~only thing a "process" in the sense of, bash window is, is a very cheap version of mazarin's informants. who wrote him letters. which he read... on a non-tiling display.
14:59 mircea_popescu notwithstanding that tiling wm were cheap in 1700
15:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu has humans in the loop , this tech is not applicable outside of dirigible .
15:00 mircea_popescu i dunno.
15:00 asciilifeform as did mazarin .
15:01 PeterL so you are doing something else on puter, and somebody highlights you in IRC, you get notified by slavegirl or what?
15:01 mircea_popescu i look when i look.
15:01 mircea_popescu unless im doing something on other display, in which case it scrolls on this screen
15:01 phf fwiw my entire system is poll based. i literally don't have any notifications, all are disabled. "i look when i look"
15:01 asciilifeform i also have 0 notifications.
15:01 mircea_popescu phf that's a luxury on par with sleeping ad libitum.
15:02 mircea_popescu i have some notifications, but the penalty for fucking with it idly is indeed high.
15:02 asciilifeform it is one of the reasons i have the panels
15:02 mircea_popescu twenty years ago people were petrified of naught more than having to call me on the phone.
15:02 asciilifeform so that if something moves, my hindbrain can do the coprocessing
15:02 asciilifeform and if it is in a low-priority corner of peripheral vision, i can ignore.
15:02 PeterL how is having two panels different from having tiled display?
15:02 asciilifeform PeterL: i have tiles-on-multiple-displays. not importantly different.
15:03 PeterL ^ q was for mircea_popescu
15:03 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525034 << FOr me just crib their formula. 37.5 x 52 to get 2015's hours. I have now idea how to count them all but certainly over.
15:03 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 12:40 mircea_popescu: so on other news, i am writing teh republic's "cia factbook", and on the matter of gdp i would like to have an estimate of the "fair market value of the total time donated to republic during 2015" in the estimation of everyone involved. detailed is better, but nothing over a page omg.
15:04 mircea_popescu PeterL the discussion was "tiling wm" specifically. and i said, exactly, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525580
15:04 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 18:40 mircea_popescu: phf what the fuck is wrong with just flipping pages / adding more panels if flipping is THAT big a deal
15:04 mircea_popescu but if i add panels, i tend to also add boxes for them.
15:05 asciilifeform 'tiling' simulates cutting display into pieces. is all it is.
15:05 PeterL so adding more panels is ok, but having tiles is not?
15:05 asciilifeform not everything merits an entire panel.
15:05 mircea_popescu again, the discussion was re a specific bit of software.
15:05 mircea_popescu more over : it was over the merits of implementing a specific cut in hardware vs software.
15:05 mircea_popescu and the contention is that not only not all cuts are worth making in software : this one definitely isn't.
15:06 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo danke!
15:09 hanbot i use multiple panels but keep those i'm not actively looking at turned off. otherwise i can actually perceive time being wasted mulling between them.
15:09 mircea_popescu just for kicks /me imagines alf becoming a talk show host, having 45 different microphones implanted in his ears. for science.
15:10 asciilifeform hanbot: i used to turn'em on/off, had entire switchboard for this, then noticed that IT is a timesink...
15:10 mircea_popescu lol
15:10 mircea_popescu "organist needs someone to pedal for him"
15:10 asciilifeform now i just have one 'big red button' for'em.
15:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the correct analogy is the bellow pumping.
15:11 mircea_popescu or the page turning yea
15:11 asciilifeform aha.
15:11 asciilifeform quite a few items that look 'wtf, why would you DO that' to mircea_popescu , come from not having a slave stable
15:11 mircea_popescu this is a cheap, and perhaps correct explanation.
15:12 asciilifeform i.e. 'not from a good life.'
15:12 mircea_popescu the other possibility, however, is that it comes from the same place a love of tchotchkes comes.
15:12 asciilifeform 'i picked this up, now won't throw out' ?
15:13 mircea_popescu yes. moreover, "thinking about my things as things rather than as extensions of my identity is VERY BAD SCARY AND EVIL"
15:13 asciilifeform quite often, e.g., asciilifeform , is reduced to working on 1 display, sometimes for weeks at a time, on account of travel, say.
15:13 asciilifeform quite unpleasant.
15:13 asciilifeform and i enjoy coming back to actual workstation that is set up just-so, correctly.
15:14 mircea_popescu me too!
15:14 mircea_popescu amusingly, it dun has tiling, so that must not be it.
15:14 asciilifeform asciilifeform's eyeglasses would not work on mircea_popescu either, i suspect.
15:14 mircea_popescu i dun wear glasses.
15:14 asciilifeform aha
15:14 mircea_popescu why the fuck would oyu DO that
15:14 mircea_popescu :D
15:15 asciilifeform there we go
15:16 asciilifeform ever see a 'harmonium' ?
15:16 asciilifeform musical instrument.
15:16 mircea_popescu yeah ?
15:16 asciilifeform the small one is kinda like accordion, but stationary, sits on the floor, one hand plays, other - pumps
15:16 mircea_popescu bavarian thing, like a tiny piano.
15:16 asciilifeform that's the other one, aha
15:16 asciilifeform like upright piano, but instead of organ pedals, there is one 'singer sewing machine'-style pumper.
15:16 mircea_popescu aha
15:17 asciilifeform both kinds have this feature, and run on accordion-style reeds internally. anyway it is very much 'poor man's' instrument traditionally.
15:17 asciilifeform who has nobody to offload the pumping to.
15:17 mircea_popescu well i do think it's pretty stupid, other than for the endearing/cultural value.
15:17 hanbot incidentally, why are there no pianists on those long, scrolling walkways in airport terminal connectors? could put the music up along the handrail.
15:17 mircea_popescu lmao
15:18 asciilifeform (neighbours in my old flat were 'hari krishna' weirdos, and so i unfortunately became very closely familiar with this instrument.)
15:18 * phf can play one..
15:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: was my point. concert organists dun have 'i gotta pump with this other hand' problems.
15:18 mircea_popescu why not you know, play a harmonica like a normal drunk.
15:18 phf a side effect of lifestyle choices..
15:19 asciilifeform because 'i'ma play the organ and fuck y'all', approximately.
15:19 mircea_popescu i guess.
15:20 PeterL organs were typically build with muscle driven bellows before electric motor was invented
15:20 mircea_popescu i suppose there is merit to this point, which is to say, "nutty central command economy mp wouldn't have ever come up with harmoniums, because they are stupid."
15:20 mircea_popescu "nevertheless, my aunt berthie lost her virginity on one"
15:20 asciilifeform PeterL: typical medieval arrangement was rather like modern 'stair climber' exercise machine. in separate room.
15:20 mircea_popescu not much to say to that.
15:21 phf i always sort of assumed that harmoniums were brought to india by traveling european bums, as an approximation of motherland culture, and stuck
15:21 asciilifeform so yes, i would happily offload the 45 shells to 50 people.
15:21 asciilifeform phf: by the brits.
15:21 asciilifeform normal organ, iirc, could not stand up to the humidity.
15:21 phf right
15:21 mircea_popescu incidentally, speaking of "medieval" organs, everyone knows the hysterical "notre dame des courants d'air" scene i trust ?
15:22 hanbot oh i saw that in kindergarten (NO.)
15:22 mircea_popescu lol!
15:23 mircea_popescu hanbot here you go : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxIHu9an9_g (and i bet you know it.)
15:23 hanbot oh oh. yeah. :D
15:23 mircea_popescu lol
~ 15 minutes ~
15:39 phf hehehe
15:39 phf i should line up some louis de funès movies
15:44 phf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nwSo_VtYT0
15:57 BingoBoingo ;;tslb
15:57 gribble Time since last block: 32 minutes and 33 seconds
~ 29 minutes ~
16:27 asciilifeform 'Collaboration between multiple divisions within TAO and S215 led to the development of a custom-built router exploit and new HAMMERCORE implant builds.'
16:27 asciilifeform (what is/was s215..?)
16:28 asciilifeform 'The OGERO ISP gateway router (RB) was exploited via HAMREX to enable SECONDDATE MiTM. The OGERO upstream Liban Telecom routers were exploited with CGDB, then implanted with HAMMERCORE and HAMMERSTEIN to enable successful Shaping of Hizballah Unit 1800 related traffic for multiple CT projects. Traffic was exfiltrated to STORMBREW from core routers and was accessible to S21, S2E, and SSG\NAC analysts via XKEYSCORE in less than 24 hour
16:28 asciilifeform s following the successful shaping tasking.'
16:28 asciilifeform lulzy.
16:28 * danielpbarron alt-tabs between full-screen things
16:29 asciilifeform 'TAO project REXKWONDO successfully enabled Country-Wide Shaping and Man-in-the-Middle (MiTM) capabilities against Lebanon's Internet traffic for the first time ever.'
16:29 asciilifeform ^ has to be hangout, they own the upstream.
16:29 asciilifeform what sort of nonsense is this.
↖
16:35 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031516.html << continued lelz
↖
16:35 gribble The operation succeeded.
16:38 asciilifeform 'To predict bytes 580..599 an attacker needs to know the bytes in the range 0..44 and 560..579.' << horseshit.
16:38 asciilifeform all he needs is a lattice solution, as described in the sarkar thing.
16:38 asciilifeform that includes ripemd.
16:39 asciilifeform once you have a known ~relation~ like this, you can work with it.
16:43 asciilifeform 'I _might_ have introduced the hole to mix in more bytes in each step. Or it was a plain bug.' -- koch.
16:43 asciilifeform ( https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031513.html )
16:43 asciilifeform ( ??? )
16:44 asciilifeform 'It's not at all what I described in my PRNG paper, but I can't tell if that's an accident or by design because, well, there are no code comments. What the GnuPG code does is mix the next 64 bytes and then overwrite the preceding 20 bytes with the mixed output, however this doesn't propagate any entropy along through the buffer.'
16:44 asciilifeform -- gutmann
16:45 asciilifeform ( https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031508.html ) .
16:46 asciilifeform aaaaaaand, didja know,
16:46 asciilifeform https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031475.html << they have a CONFERENCE!11111
↖
16:46 asciilifeform and guess what isn't on the agenda.
16:46 asciilifeform aha.
16:47 asciilifeform https://openpgp-conf.org/program.html
16:47 asciilifeform ^ abstracts.
16:49 phf i thought you said "what is on the agenda", i spent a few minutes trying to interpret those subjects in a nefarios way
16:49 asciilifeform lel
16:49 asciilifeform these folk specialize in isn'ts.
16:49 asciilifeform not is's.
16:50 asciilifeform though their 'is' is quite lulzy, e.g., the sks server talk is about 'This talk will discuss some experiences operating the services and discuss new features related to new specifications such as Elliptic Curves (including but not limited to Ed25519 and Curve25519) and the experimental Tor support available at hkp://jirk5u4osbsr34t5.onion in addition to providing an overview of the other available pools such as the TLS enabled HKPS p
16:50 asciilifeform ool and the various geographical pools.'
16:50 asciilifeform so predictable, one can almost die of boredom.
16:50 asciilifeform and yet hilarious.
16:51 asciilifeform or how about,
16:51 asciilifeform 'In the last 4 years developing OpenKeychain, an OpenPGP implementation for Android, we made several unconventional UX decisions. While other implementations are still based on UX paradigms introduced in 1997 by PGP 5, we try to re-invent UX for a broader user base. Some of our decisions are subject to controversy in the OpenPGP community, in particular those of hiding information and complexity from the user, rather than giving them
16:51 asciilifeform full control to make bad decisions. We hide Key IDs from the user, we don't use the words public and private, we never mention Key Signing or Keyservers, and we don't generate 8192 RSA keys. In this talk we give an overview over our different UX decisions, the reasoning behind them...'
16:51 asciilifeform ^ who wants to try feeding this abortion , e.g., the khadeer key ?
16:51 asciilifeform i bet it will eat.
16:52 asciilifeform and i won't even bother summarizing, e.g., 'OpenPGP for Android, Web and Windows'
16:54 asciilifeform and who won't love 'As far as the conference program goes, the Mesh may be considered as a proposal to replace/augment the existing OpenPGP key server infrastructure with a new one that provides support for multiple PKI based applications and trust models. ... The Mesh makes it easy for a user to transfer an email configuration from one machine to another and offers to automatically configure OpenPGP ... service whose architecture ma
16:54 asciilifeform y be loosely described as 'MIT keyserver meets blockchain'. '
16:55 * asciilifeform maxed out dosimeter for the day.
17:06 mircea_popescu so i come back, wall of alf.
17:07 mircea_popescu you're going to have to pay a fine if you do more than a dozen lines in succession you hear ?
17:11 mircea_popescu and in other lipreading news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maest5eAcq1r2a4juo1_500.gif
~ 21 minutes ~
17:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525750 << your mental model of a functional monolithical sensible "meta-nsa" is contradicted by the practice. a lot of redundancy is baked in by legions of mindless, not terribly intelligent, here today and gone tomorrow "analysts", "experts", "contractors" and whatnot, with management broadly unaware of what the situation is.
17:32 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 20:29 asciilifeform: what sort of nonsense is this.
17:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i did a tour of duty in the most godforsaken imaginable salt mine full of ex-nsa folk.
↖
17:33 asciilifeform so i know what they look like.
17:33 asciilifeform (0 from crypto directorate tho.)
17:34 mircea_popescu ok. so basically, they vaguely are aware that project P is made out of parts P1... Pn, although if you take them to task they can't really explain it ; and for that matter they're not really aware that "we made n parts for P" really means "we made part 1 six times and part 3 nine times because they were easy to make, we don't have any 2, 3, 7, 8 or 9 which means P ain't ever EVER working"
17:35 mircea_popescu whole shebang has a lot more to do with absurdist theatre than with technological process.
17:35 asciilifeform it gets carried along by the - occasional - working trick.
17:36 asciilifeform (also helps that the typical target is softer than fresh dog shit)
17:36 mircea_popescu which is more a result of blind statistics than of institutional management
17:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform softness of the target is not even half the story - what helps more is that half the time the derps don't even know if they got noise or signal.
17:37 mircea_popescu their very tpical hockey sticks machines work just as well over climate data as they work over washing machine readings.
17:37 asciilifeform this subj occurred to me before - who, if anyone, checks the FUCKEDMONKEY or whatever outputs against humint ?
17:38 mircea_popescu which is how a huge thorny tree of "programs" that ate in excess of 300bn in 15 years has produced exactly ZERO any sort of results of any kind whatsoever to date.
17:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform same people who check the gpg rng unwhitened.
17:40 mircea_popescu so in the case of the lebanon thing : yes, they own the upstream, and YES some derps expect to be paid for their "contribution" succeeding "for the first time" blabla.
17:41 asciilifeform 'награждение непричастных, наказание невиновных' (tm) (r)
17:41 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525751 << epic. werner ADMITS "mp was right all along - gpg 1.4.x is the right way to go, 2.x is weak"
17:41 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 20:35 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031516.html << continued lelz
17:41 mircea_popescu he just iiiiiinexplicably omits to name names. hurr.
17:42 asciilifeform the rng thing was in all published vers.
17:42 asciilifeform (2.x is a monstrosity for other reasons)
17:42 mircea_popescu i fondly recall the brief push by sm derps of the "mp is right occasionally" angle. i suppose someone stopped and counted meanwhile.
17:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, no, looky : For GnuPG 2.1 things are different because there is a long running process (gpg-agent) which creates all keys.
17:43 asciilifeform aha, this, yes
17:43 mircea_popescu he can try and paper over it with "should be" and "similar" and whatnot until teh cows come home.
17:43 asciilifeform (recall attempt to build)
17:43 mircea_popescu aha.
17:44 mircea_popescu i forget the exact score, but the part where it is three digits to ZERO is kinda seared in my memory.
17:51 mircea_popescu soo... https://www.google.com/search?q=werner+koch&tbs=qdr:w << is google serving me special pages or does anyone else see trilema leadign there ?
17:51 mircea_popescu might explain all the effort the derps are putting into talking around the matter, i guess.
17:52 shinohai I see trilema as first result
17:53 asciilifeform i also
17:53 mircea_popescu the gnupg official mail list announcement coming in second goes pretty good with a side helping of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523119
17:53 a111 Logged on 2016-08-17 16:20 mircea_popescu: "I doubt this will ever happen. Even he never cracked any PGP keys at all, the FUD he spread around was a nice way to get some free advertising. Look, people saying his name on gnupg and enigmail lists, which are quite popular I believe."
17:55 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525764 << all that rubber chicken ain't gonna eat itself.
17:55 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 20:46 asciilifeform: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031475.html << they have a CONFERENCE!11111
17:57 mircea_popescu anyway. i gues yet-another of these events where the whole bar talk is about us.
17:57 mircea_popescu which makes it what, the ... 4th ? i forget.
18:01 asciilifeform i'd be quite surprised if any of the participants (other than, perhaps, koch) even suspected there were any such thing as us.
18:10 asciilifeform https://archive.is/l3ks9 << in other lulz
18:11 asciilifeform 'IEX slows down all of the trades that go through its system with a 38-mile coil of fiber-optic cable that sits between the outside world and the exchange’s main computer. It takes trading signals 350 millionths of a second to get through the coil.'
18:11 asciilifeform a) why do this, or b ) why it could not be done in software - remains a mystery.
18:13 asciilifeform spin machine tells that this front-running is somehow a win ? for KONSOOMERZ.
18:18 mircea_popescu they can't really trust software.
18:19 mircea_popescu anyway ; it's pleasant to see fiat exchanges migrate to being more like mpex.
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~
20:43 * covertress waves hello to mircea_popescu
20:44 covertress enjoyed a wonderful steak with DFInstitute, SAP & 500 Startups @ http://www.barberians.com/
20:44 covertress rare, bacon-wrapped filet
20:46 covertress mircea_popescu, one of my co-panelists has a proposal for you. I'll bring it when I visit.
20:49 covertress as I've spent a very busy few sleepless days/nights out of the country, I'll say my goodnights now
20:50 * covertress waves goodnight to mircea_popescu
~ 2 hours 52 minutes ~
23:42 ben_vulpes > 500 startups
23:43 ben_vulpes i thought that was the 'altman' thing, turns out it's the 'mcclure' thing
23:45 ben_vulpes ohey archive won't eat the linkedin lulz
23:46 ben_vulpes i wonder why anyone would give half a shit about an ex-conference organizer's...steak?
23:46 ben_vulpes how does one have a steak with SAP anyways?
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