Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-12-04 | 2017-12-06 → ↓
00:07 deedbot hanbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/o7iDo/?raw=true
~ 1 hours 47 minutes ~
01:54 BingoBoingo !!deed wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/OrE8B/?raw=true
01:54 deedbot Bad URL or network outage.
01:55 BingoBoingo deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/OrE8B/?raw=true
01:55 BingoBoingo !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/OrE8B/?raw=true
01:55 deedbot accepted: 1
~ 49 minutes ~
02:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-497681.txt
~ 2 hours 46 minutes ~
05:31 mircea_popescu and in other news, http://lurkmore.to/ is now dead ?
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05:39 mircea_popescu trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/C0G3d/?raw=true
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~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~
07:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745676 << if you mean http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/ the point of it was specifically so as to have a tmsr item to put into http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726131 ; as that failed and we decided to go with serpent, the only possible closure to that offer is that the republic failed to deliver.
07:21 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 22:30 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform will submit ffa.rsa to be judged in mircea_popescu's symm cipher contest, supposing the latter is still running
07:21 a111 Logged on 2017-10-18 15:19 mircea_popescu: in other items of republican interest : eulora is at a stage where we have to set down what we'll use for sensitive data encryption (such as for instance the privkey files). i don't particularily wish to use aes ; anyone wants to contribute to this emerging spec ?
~ 23 minutes ~
07:45 mircea_popescu i put a comment in ; seared with hot irons, and hopefully alongside the indolence and self-indulgent idiocy of all days to come.
~ 29 minutes ~
08:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-123805
08:21 mircea_popescu answer't.
08:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: why not declare the serpent author the winner ?
08:24 mircea_popescu he did not submit.
08:24 mircea_popescu there's a whole train of "here's some efortless stuff" in there, if you've noticed, "x could be used [but i shall do no work]".
08:24 asciilifeform incidentally who nominated serpent originally here ?
08:25 mircea_popescu no work has not yet been the avenue to winning.
08:25 mircea_popescu !#s serpent
08:25 a111 65 results for "serpent", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=serpent
08:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-17#981006 <
08:25 a111 Logged on 2015-01-17 22:38 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler.
08:26 asciilifeform from where did eulora get the snippet currently in use ?
08:27 mircea_popescu you mean from whose reading or from whose writing ?
08:27 asciilifeform from where specifically
08:27 asciilifeform as in, the code per se
08:27 mircea_popescu no but see, we use different terminology. i do not assign anything to "code written". the source of code, to my eyes, is he in the wot who has read it.
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08:28 mircea_popescu the situation thereby is that the serpent to be used in eulora ORIGINATES with diana_coman , its reader.
08:28 mircea_popescu who wrote it is of no consequence, that pointer will be permafixed as NIL.
08:28 asciilifeform asciilifeform read it, originally. and described why it ought to be considered, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591995
08:28 a111 Logged on 2016-12-28 17:48 asciilifeform: in particular: no tables.
08:28 asciilifeform i dun propose that this constitutes a 'winning contest entry'. but take exception to the 'no work.'
08:29 mircea_popescu this is the iffy part with "work", that it bears definitions that often diverge from what subjective feeling's like.
08:29 asciilifeform e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591977 and elsewhere.
08:29 a111 Logged on 2016-12-28 16:58 asciilifeform since release of FUCKGOATS, spent much time studying 'serpent' block cipher.
08:29 mircea_popescu it is actually possibru she's going to use a signed item by you ? though i dun recall this being mentioned
08:29 mircea_popescu didja read it in the proper sense, or in the "no obligations" sense ?
08:29 asciilifeform in the properly-read sense.
08:30 mircea_popescu is this a patch or a genesis ?
08:30 asciilifeform i cannot attest to the strength ( afaik nobody can ) but can to the constanttimeitude, for instance.
08:30 mircea_popescu but did you sign this somewhere.
08:31 asciilifeform afaik not yet signed. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726147 is where the item was communicated.
08:31 a111 Logged on 2017-10-18 15:35 asciilifeform: fwiw there is a quite short ada serpent existing, passes the test set ( and branch-free ).
08:32 asciilifeform i'm quite willing to genesis it to attest to the origin of the item from my personal archive.
08:32 mircea_popescu see, here's the problem : work === "hey mp, here's the genesis & tree for the crypto item eulora needed ; now as to s.nsa's fee...". !work is anything-not-that, including ~very helpful~ side comments.
08:32 asciilifeform ( supposing this is of interest to anyone. )
08:32 mircea_popescu it is not to say that one (me, s.mg, diana_coman, everyone) does not benefit immensely from shooting the breeze among the intelligent&educated, as opposed to out in the cold.
08:33 asciilifeform somehow the 'i dug up an algo, by apparently sane author, and determined that it runs in constant time' -- not work ?
08:33 mircea_popescu however. if i don't have a neck to squeeze when something blows up no work was in fact done. that's the writing/reading distinction, code is enacted by reading, in the speciffic v sense of the term.
08:33 asciilifeform went through a gigatonne of liquishit, to find.
08:33 mircea_popescu hey.
08:34 mircea_popescu there's a difference between socializing (which yes, is the free exchange of valuable bits of knowledge / information) and work (which is the DIRECTED etc)
08:37 asciilifeform i'm quite willing to sign the copy which i personally studied, even today
08:38 mircea_popescu why didn't you even yesterday is the more productive question here. what exactly changed since today ?
08:38 mircea_popescu but anyway -- i see no impediment ; or can wait for diana_coman 's published item on her blog sign then if happy, or.
08:38 asciilifeform for diana_coman's v chain strictly.
08:39 asciilifeform if the item actually ends up (as it appears to be going) in eulora, imho is the proper thing to do, rather than 'source is this-here paste'
08:39 mircea_popescu yes, well, there's no practical way to negotiate ad hoc two such copies if indeed they exist. logical move is to syncronize by patience, wait for it to appear see if it's any good.
08:39 asciilifeform sorta how mircea_popescu signed 0.5.3.
08:40 mircea_popescu i expect it'll be patched into mpi. which she's going to also sign to genesis. sorta like how i signed mp-wp, and unlike how you didn't genesis it, or did you ?
08:40 asciilifeform i did.
08:40 asciilifeform for fuck's sake
08:40 mircea_popescu a then, that's getting patched.
08:41 asciilifeform will argue that for mpi asciilifeform did 'no work' ?
08:41 asciilifeform will say 'ah but subjectively! it OUGHTA have taken you 5min'
08:41 mircea_popescu not at all.
08:41 mircea_popescu nope.
08:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mpi&search= << it's in there, that's what it is.
08:42 asciilifeform ftr, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533 << mpiism all in one spot.
08:42 mircea_popescu going to construct a v tree (on the basis of her sig) that builds into eulora crypto lib.
08:43 mircea_popescu leaving the mpi_second_cut as the basic root for further/other work also.
08:44 asciilifeform i will stand and say, asciilifeform did exactly the Right Thing, prepared , with proper care wartime ersatz ( mpi ) for if ( as turned out to be the case ) proper item ( ffa ) takes years.
08:44 mircea_popescu this is quite true.
08:45 asciilifeform incidentally the work was reported in s.nsa broadcasts. sanitized-mpi is a s.nsa product.
08:45 mircea_popescu aha.
08:46 asciilifeform ( clearly marked in the src per se, likewise, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/mpi_second_cut#L5350 )
08:47 mircea_popescu for some reason i was looking in 2016 era s.nsa reports
08:47 asciilifeform 2015 works.
08:48 mircea_popescu ie, http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#selection-451.0-457.21
08:48 mircea_popescu was this jan/feb 2016 or different period ?
08:48 mircea_popescu "The S.NSA entry is to be an implementation based on Cramer-Shoup. As it turns out, Cramer-Shoup has never been publicly implemented by anyone, at all."
08:49 mircea_popescu heh! so many hopes, so little time...
08:49 mircea_popescu whatever happened of that march 2016 promised cs implementation candidate cipher ?
08:49 asciilifeform ffa
08:49 asciilifeform no cs worth considering without sane ffa.
08:50 mircea_popescu hm.
08:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the linked item earlier is from when asciilifeform dug out and studied koch's proposed sidechannel countermeasure. proclaimed it nonsensical and useless, and bit the bullet, 'must bignum from scratch.'
08:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cs is numbertheoretical cipher, just as rsa, requires sane bignum.
08:50 mircea_popescu what happened to "god damned it, i can't do this c-s i was going to do for the cipher comp because no ffa" ?
08:51 asciilifeform subj was beaten to death in the logs, neh
08:51 mircea_popescu not as such.
08:51 asciilifeform e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-19#1453842
08:51 a111 Logged on 2016-04-19 16:35 asciilifeform: to which i bolted a cramer-shoup thing, and started out thinking 'i'll reuse the elgamal piece, c-s is after all a variant of elgamal' but nooooo
08:51 asciilifeform e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-19#1453851
08:51 a111 Logged on 2016-04-19 16:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: c-s uses the basic parts of elgamal, hence the investigation.
08:52 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-26#1529899
08:52 a111 Logged on 2016-08-26 16:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-26#1529877 << timing can be 'ceilinged' and it solves problem. but i am still chewing on the problem of enemy being able to determine who is speaking to whom by deriving the public keys. (this is trivial with rsa, and i've been working on answering the q of whether is is also true for c-s)
08:52 mircea_popescu the important parts in order of importance : 1) distress call ("god damned it") ; 2. failure discussion "i can't do this c-s i was going to do for the cipher comp". these must be present as teh header.
08:52 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-09#1696085
08:52 a111 Logged on 2017-08-09 21:53 asciilifeform: at any rate it is just as easily implemented on pmachine as rsa.
08:52 asciilifeform possibly elsewhere also.
08:53 mircea_popescu none of these make it.
08:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu even showed symptoms of having actually read the c-s orig paper, and presumably knew that it is a numbertheoretical cipher.
08:53 mircea_popescu yes.
08:54 asciilifeform and 'uses the components of elgamal' and 'leaks like a sieve if we use koch's routines, via side channel' required additional pedanticism somehow ?
08:54 mircea_popescu but the specific sequence is required, that's what communication is, that's how signalling works. "actually... i was going to do x for y, but can't, and won't before z". that's gotta be -- either in the comment section of the linked march 2016 report, or in the comment section of the linked contest, or i guess unideally here. but explicitly.
08:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, because they have to attach to the item, so the item can then be followeds.
08:55 mircea_popescu otherwise the result is that you leave it unsignalled for a coupla years and it dies out.
08:55 mircea_popescu think of how proteins work in the body, it's exactly the same thing.
08:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was signalled five ways to pluto. or, say it now, did mircea_popescu think that cramer-shoup remained unimplemented because 'lazy self-indulgent idjits' ?
08:56 mircea_popescu in a word, yes.
08:56 mircea_popescu the item doesn't even exist implemented at all! still today, as then. lego blocks implementation would beat this situation.
08:57 asciilifeform there was 1 implementation.
08:57 asciilifeform ( terrible one, in elisp. but worked. )
08:57 mircea_popescu or, to state it conversely, waiting copulation upon the perfect erection will result in a very old virgin bride, AT THE MOST. generally it will result in divorce.
08:58 mircea_popescu i dun think i ever saw it myself.
08:58 asciilifeform it is in the log
08:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-05#1397388 ah there we go
08:58 a111 Logged on 2016-02-05 20:57 ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.verify-it.de/sub/cramer_shoup.html << in elisp, no less
08:58 asciilifeform ^ aha.
08:58 mircea_popescu i recall this now.
08:59 mircea_popescu http://www.verify-it.de/sub/challenge.html << poor guy even has a contest.
09:01 asciilifeform in the process of writing one on top of my mpi, i realized that the approach is unsound, and will eventually get people killed. so went straight to what became ffa.
09:01 mircea_popescu 1998.
09:01 mircea_popescu this is not unreasonable.
09:02 asciilifeform so this perhaps answers mircea_popescu's 'where the hell was c-s'
09:03 mircea_popescu it does however not answer "where the hell was the discussion of s.nsa's march 2016 promise wrt february 2016 cipher contest".
09:04 mircea_popescu or in better terms : the conversation could have been carried in 2016, in the terms of "here's what the future looks like, wut do" rather than end-of-2017 in the terms of "here's what i don't like about how the past looks".
09:04 asciilifeform for what did mircea_popescu think ffa is made ?
09:04 asciilifeform for mechanized bignum tetris ?
09:05 mircea_popescu in general i expect it is made for ~any purpose. be it rsa, c-s, or yes, tetris.
09:05 mircea_popescu inasmuch as it's made for being correct, it's made for whatever it'll be used for.
09:05 asciilifeform made originally ( as amply described in the logs , at every step of the way ) for universal numbertheoretical ciphrator.
09:05 mircea_popescu right.
09:06 mircea_popescu an' there's nothing wrong with this.
09:06 asciilifeform and i take exception to 'what i don't like about how the past looks'. looks entirely proper to me, and imho well-supported by the log material.
09:07 mircea_popescu so then what's the problem ?
09:08 asciilifeform the 'self-indulgent indolence' of implementing in a year+ what usg academitards could not do in 30 years
09:08 asciilifeform i suppose i oughtn't be surprised, that everyone answers then 'why not in a month'
09:08 mircea_popescu but that discussion was re absent submission to cipher contest ; not re your work making the ffa item you came to the conclusion is generally necessary.
09:09 asciilifeform they are one and the same.
09:09 mircea_popescu evidently not ?
09:10 mircea_popescu anyway, the point re "it's unfortunate that open ended terms, such as one's own life, and other things, end up quite closed termed in the end" is sound. yes it's quite unfortunate, and rather regrettable. nevertheless, it's how it goes ; if i knew better in feb 2016 i'd have said "this'll be open for a coupla years". as it happens, i didn't know any better in 2016.
09:10 asciilifeform requires a very selective reading of the logs, to say that they are not. but i won't argue over mircea_popescu's contest, it was written in such a way that it oughta have been quite obvious that the bounty will not be paid.
09:10 asciilifeform i do however take exception to the 'indolence'.
09:11 mircea_popescu actually it was written with a view to having the bounty paid to nsa. it's just nsa had to actually do some things.
09:11 asciilifeform and instead sat around uselessly , and wasted time making and selling rng in the meantime also, lol
09:11 mircea_popescu it is not clear to me why this is uselessly.
09:11 asciilifeform ( what's the use, incidentally, of a cramershouptron, without sane rng ? )
09:12 asciilifeform the implication of 'had to do some things' is 'but instead sat' neh ?
09:12 mircea_popescu evidently nothing in crypto is useful without rng ; what's this to do with anything ?
09:13 mircea_popescu (nothing in crypto is useful, either, which severely limits the rng uptake apparently -- if your crypto dun work anyway what need is rng item or somesuch)
09:14 asciilifeform yea, observe, danielpbarron's fiatola FG sale still 0 takers
09:14 asciilifeform i find this interesting.
09:14 mircea_popescu well, they don't yet need it for anything. at least mentally. aanyways.
09:14 asciilifeform i can even see the logic, 'why would i give half a shit what rngolade to feed to my koch whitenertron'
09:15 mircea_popescu the implication isn't "but instead sat" necessarily. you take this altogether very personally, but there's a good dozen "crypto experts" opining importantly in the comment section there.
09:15 asciilifeform them -- to the oven.
09:15 mircea_popescu well sure.
09:16 mircea_popescu the deeper problem here is that the evolution of warfare has rendered a symmetric cipher useless. for the launch codes or how you call it we're mostly in consensus to use pure rsa, if memory serves, and for the prattle of eg game server, serpent will do.
09:17 asciilifeform as for asciilifeform , he would actually prefer if mircea_popescu shot straight and said 'hell no i won't pay for no stinkin' software', rather than the peculiar ritual of having a contest, then to proclaim the submitters as a whole 'self-indulgent indolent' and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway
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09:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is nonsense ; i even paid for you know, legal footwork if you recall.
09:18 asciilifeform was a pittance iirc
09:18 mircea_popescu uh.
09:18 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-118024 << 25btc.
09:18 asciilifeform 25 btc was substantially easier to come by in 2013.
09:18 mircea_popescu the problem isn't the payinbg. the problem is the workdoing.
09:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it was paid in 2016.
09:19 asciilifeform still 'toyota' in 2016.
09:19 mircea_popescu why is this relevant ?
09:20 asciilifeform i suppose if mircea_popescu proclaims that it ain't, then it ain't , what can i say.
09:21 mircea_popescu well i mean... there's an over-time tendency for btc bounties nominal value to decrease and for their fiat value to increase. this is normal, as the item grows.
09:21 mircea_popescu heck, in 2012 or when it was, 10 btc went for http://trilema.com/2013/they-really-are-buttcoins-nao/
09:21 mircea_popescu 2013 it turns out.
09:22 asciilifeform asciilifeform will observe that from all of his various works to date he has made an exact 0 btc.
09:23 mircea_popescu well, you enjoy the freedom to work under your own direction, and a major proportion of all the gains this work produces.
09:23 asciilifeform thought, very briefly, that this might change, so a bit of an облом . is all.
09:23 mircea_popescu the more concerning point is that ~ mircea_popescu ~ has to date made 0 btc out of all the support work he put into asciilifeform 's projects!!!
09:24 asciilifeform could be 0
09:24 asciilifeform or could be >0, depending on whether e.g. having trb around, is worth +
09:24 mircea_popescu i was discussing nsa, as such.
09:25 asciilifeform as such -- mircea_popescu works just as 'for free' as asciilifeform
09:25 mircea_popescu not that i'm particularly concerned, myself. i'm rich enough to not specifically care to monetize work ; trilema can be free for all i care, and i'm more than happy to minor partner with a view to a very long term.
09:25 asciilifeform moar so, given that mircea_popescu is a renowned sharpshooter and costs maxint
09:25 mircea_popescu but this outlook is a luxury, the prime luxury of life, in fact
09:26 mircea_popescu nobody can be obliged to it.
09:26 asciilifeform right.
09:26 mircea_popescu when you think "hey, ima do the right thing, spend two years making ffa" you make some decisions. they're fine and good, inasmuch as they're yours. but to be decisions, they're the choice of something over something else.
09:26 mircea_popescu why облом ? you got exactly what you wanted!
09:26 asciilifeform the choice of it or drink.
09:27 mircea_popescu well no, you could've alternatively delivered eulora-crypto, btmsr cipher, etcetera. evidently hindsight is more informative than foresight, and i'm not even saying you should have or anything.
09:28 mircea_popescu but the man who decides to pursue pure research and is annoyed that industry meanwhile makes money is in a very strange mental space.
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09:28 asciilifeform i prefer living friends, to dead. ergo no ersatz cryptos.
09:28 mircea_popescu yes ; but can you appreciate how ffa is a lot more apt for tmsr-rsa than for a simm cipher ?
09:29 asciilifeform in that sense symm cipher is a dead end.
09:29 mircea_popescu quite!
09:29 * asciilifeform bbl, teatime.
09:33 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
09:34 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 11840.79, vol: 13273.76661516 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 11832.0, vol: 54200.23109602 | Volume-weighted last average: 11833.7292055
09:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so for my own curiosity : considering the choice to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-12#1655064 (i recall a more recent mention but search isn't yielding) has cost you over the past YEAR the equivalent of what appears like 118`337 here + whatever the non-delivery of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591437 would have amounted to (iirc no amt was ever set down ?), are you putting this down to a case of bad managem
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09:42 a111 Logged on 2017-05-12 03:06 asciilifeform: this type of thing is called 'day job', and it so happens that i already have one
09:42 a111 Logged on 2016-12-27 22:14 mircea_popescu: course since the nsa consulting work for minigame is going to produce ada rsa, it might be an idea to have an ~ada~ tmsr crypto lib.
09:42 mircea_popescu ent of your own time on your part (ie, wasted it in fiatlands instead of using it productively in the republic) ? or is it a case of on the contrary, judicious use of your time ("the republic'd have made me rich but empire made me richer still") ? or is it out and out, deliberately learned helplessness in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744043 (as recurrent throughout logs) ?
09:42 a111 Logged on 2017-11-29 04:54 asciilifeform: as it is, asciilifeform couldn't even sell 1 btc in here in usgistan, even if wanted to.
09:42 mircea_popescu or i guess is it the idea that "even had i worked full time, it'd still not have been quite enough" ?
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09:44 mircea_popescu i'm guessing six digits is a large enough chunk of change it'd warrant some quite serious examination in any case.
09:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun get it
09:59 mircea_popescu which part ?
09:59 asciilifeform the question
10:00 mircea_popescu well what can i say.
10:00 asciilifeform i could attempt to answer what i ~think~ is the question
10:00 asciilifeform and this answer is, asciilifeform's landlord doesn't take payment in s.nsa ownership shares, only in old-fashioned dubloons. and they're due every single month.
10:01 asciilifeform and asciilifeform is not rich, does not have the option to 'not waste time in fiatland'.
10:01 mircea_popescu i'm guessing the question's not yet ripe for addressing.
10:02 mircea_popescu on which basis i predict there shall be moar облом in the future.
10:04 mircea_popescu anyway, re the "and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway" portion of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746522 : that discussion was mid and then late 2016 ; on dec 2017 i had to direct s.mg tech to CREATE rather than simply use a cripto lib. for this reason i don't wish to pay nsa anything -- it didn't do the work i wanted it to do. it's true that it released a "intangibles and goodwill" sort of
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10:04 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 14:17 asciilifeform: as for asciilifeform , he would actually prefer if mircea_popescu shot straight and said 'hell no i won't pay for no stinkin' software', rather than the peculiar ritual of having a contest, then to proclaim the submitters as a whole 'self-indulgent indolent' and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway
10:04 mircea_popescu item, which is generically useful, and in exchange it gets paid with the exact sort of intangibles and goodwill these sorts of intellectual leadership moves warrant and generally attract -- for example by s.mg being married to 100% of its product line to date as a deliberate move ; and being very inclined to consider its isp offering when that comes online (is it coming online btw ?) and such things.
10:05 mircea_popescu both the "for honor" and "for money" circuits are functional and actually functioning. needn't be confused randomly.
10:06 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746577 << 'create' from thin air ?!
10:06 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 15:04 mircea_popescu: anyway, re the "and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway" portion of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746522 : that discussion was mid and then late 2016 ; on dec 2017 i had to direct s.mg tech to CREATE rather than simply use a cripto lib. for this reason i don't wish to pay nsa anything -- it didn't do the work i wanted it to do. it's true that it released a "intangibles and goodwill" sort of
10:09 mircea_popescu from whatever available.
10:10 asciilifeform i dun have any notion that ' mircea_popescu oughta pay for the mpi ' , it was made without any such agreement. ditto the serpent archaeology etc.
10:11 mircea_popescu yes but there's important points there as to how things work.
10:11 asciilifeform and in general i dun expect any of it to be paid for, there is no tradition of any such thing. but i do have the possibly naive expectation of the work not to be shat on.
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10:12 trinque who shat?
10:12 mircea_popescu o hey, how was trip trinque
10:12 asciilifeform !#s self indulgent indolence
10:12 a111 2 results for "self indulgent indolence", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=self%20indulgent%20indolence
10:12 trinque went very well, thanks! went out to austin with ben_vulpes and another fellow, had a fine time.
10:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's not very clear to me how your x=y things work, BUT, if you had told me in 2016 that you intend to delay c-s ada impl by 1-2-n years to wait for ffa i'd have told you symmetric cipher really dun need ffa for any reason and eulora won't wait into 2018 for it etc.
10:13 asciilifeform or for that matter http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746561 aka 'why do you not only take year+ to ffa but why not also do it while living in a tent under a bridge'
10:13 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 14:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so for my own curiosity : considering the choice to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-12#1655064 (i recall a more recent mention but search isn't yielding) has cost you over the past YEAR the equivalent of what appears like 118`337 here + whatever the non-delivery of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591437 would have amounted to (iirc no amt was ever set down ?), are you putting this down to a case of bad managem
10:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you're cutting bits and pieces of a thing then hurting self with them as a proof the item was dangerous. item wasn't dangerous as it was, you cut it up into harmful pieces deliberately!
10:14 asciilifeform consider, if i'd have quit day job and counted on mircea_popescu's contest prize to live on, would have starved.
10:15 mircea_popescu why ? quit day job, dedicated to item, delivered late 2016, got prize, had 10 btc moar to name than now. how many btc has dayjob produced ? more ? less ?
10:15 asciilifeform there's a time parameter.
10:15 asciilifeform bills due every month, regardless of won contests or not won.
10:15 asciilifeform this is what being poor means.
10:16 mircea_popescu well, this may well be true, and if it's true it's unfortunate.
10:16 mircea_popescu it does also contradict at least two classes of things you say, so one never knows, but can take word for it.
10:16 mircea_popescu sucks to be poor.
10:16 asciilifeform ( could suppose that asciilifeform is poor because idiot, or because lives in socialist paradise, or some combination, orthogonal to discussion )
10:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: out of curiosity, what contradicts ?
10:18 mircea_popescu class 1 is actually quoted above, "or is it out and out, deliberately learned helplessness in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744043 (as recurrent throughout logs) ?" ; class 2 is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-11#1736269 and so forth.
10:18 a111 Logged on 2017-11-29 04:54 asciilifeform: as it is, asciilifeform couldn't even sell 1 btc in here in usgistan, even if wanted to.
10:18 a111 Logged on 2017-11-11 16:40 asciilifeform: relatedly, chinese quote 0.88 cents per 1500x sem photo; for 1x1cm die (which is estimate, i dun have an xray machine here) that works out to 1-2k usd for whole thing, depending on how many layers turn up
10:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where's the contradiction ?
10:19 asciilifeform ( ftr the latter estimate turned up to be undershot, discussed in later thread )
10:19 mircea_popescu with class 1 the problem is that you claim bitcoin is not worth money ; with class 2 that you claim to be poor but then engage in the sort of shopping upper-middle class tech people do.
10:19 asciilifeform that's what i meant by poor
10:19 mircea_popescu in general it dun give a very convincing picture of alf-starving-under-bridge.
10:19 mircea_popescu yes but you don't get to randomly redefine words.
10:19 asciilifeform i ~would~ starve under bridge if didn't work in the saeculum
10:19 asciilifeform that's what to me means 'poor'.
10:20 asciilifeform the microscopies, etc are paid for with the fiatola that asciilifeform 'cheated' the beast out of by rejecting mortgagism, 401kism, etc.
10:20 trinque teh splittings. what of splitting time between near-term unprofitable long bets on teh republic and near-term profitable ways to pay the bills.
10:20 asciilifeform trinque: concretize for the thread plox ?
10:21 trinque to date, deedbot made like 0.0002, and so what? it'll make more in the future, and it'll buy more with what it made idem
↖ ↖
10:21 mircea_popescu yes but unlike him, you're rich!
10:21 trinque oh oh
10:21 asciilifeform iirc trinque also works in the saeculum.
10:22 mircea_popescu it's not forbidden, you know.
10:22 trinque can fuck whores and ladies with the same cock
10:22 mircea_popescu it only becomes a problem when the argument presented is "i didn't have the time to do x"
10:22 trinque can decide the proportion each day
10:22 mircea_popescu that opens a legitimate inquiry of, well, what didja do with the time.
10:22 asciilifeform ftr i spent more time, hour for hour, on ffa in past yr than among the heathens.
10:23 mircea_popescu if you say i readily believe.
10:24 asciilifeform most of it spent on dead ends.
10:24 mircea_popescu which takes us right back to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746566
10:24 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 14:42 mircea_popescu: or i guess is it the idea that "even had i worked full time, it'd still not have been quite enough" ?
10:24 asciilifeform enough for what
10:24 asciilifeform entirely possibly enough to get to same place in half the time.
10:24 mircea_popescu for to have delivered the items whose failure deliver you bemoan today.
10:25 asciilifeform that depends on whether goal post would have moved also in half the time, neh.
10:25 mircea_popescu i doubt it'd have changed at any point prior to this month, really.
10:25 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu says this -- i'll believe.
10:25 mircea_popescu well, the eulora cripto lib died when i said, iirc last month board meeting\
10:29 asciilifeform now that i think about it, if i were mircea_popescu , ffa would have gone more than simply twice as fast, it takes considerable time to reload the problem into head , after a long dive into the saecular sewers
10:29 asciilifeform but i'm not mircea_popescu .
10:31 asciilifeform saeculum doesn't come with a fine-grained 'exactly how much time do you want to sell' knob. not for programmers, at any rate.
10:31 asciilifeform ( iirc this was subject of several old threads )
10:31 mircea_popescu sure.
10:31 trinque so heathen.incorporate and start consulting or something for 3x rate
10:32 asciilifeform trinque: i tried this, and nearly went broke.
10:32 asciilifeform asciilifeforms not in demand.
10:32 mircea_popescu trinque part of the problem is that fellow is ~hurt puppy, has a lot of misadventurous baggage / unfortunate experience.
10:32 trinque sure, I went broke like five times in last decade
10:33 mircea_popescu the importance of well chosen women, huh.
10:33 trinque lol, and how!
10:33 asciilifeform there was a thread, where asciilifeform described how more than once he took a major open problem, and actually solved, and as result went broke.
10:33 trinque mostly though, was dumping it into a knob to adjust time spent in saeculum
10:33 asciilifeform ( again i have nfi whether because-idiot, or because-socialisms, or some combo of both. )
10:33 mircea_popescu i recall something with robotic microscopy
10:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: robotic liquid handling.
10:34 mircea_popescu right
10:34 asciilifeform then there was another episode, a few yrs ago, with automatic reversing of winblowz exes. that time several friends went broke ~with~ asciilifeform .
10:35 mircea_popescu outside of you two (admitting this is what trinque meant) i know of no people who went into consulting and lost money.
10:35 trinque nah, I started up a thing, feeds me to this day
10:35 trinque was saying I was willing to starve, then eat beans, then
10:35 asciilifeform it is very easy, rent still due even if 0 takers.
10:36 mircea_popescu amusingly, i also went broke numerous times, but with me it was just money.
10:36 asciilifeform evidently trinque is considerably better at what he does, than i am, this is not really disputable
10:37 trinque nah, only asciilifeform wants to eat from higher minded things
10:37 asciilifeform trinque: you would barf an entire barrel if you saw what i eat from.
10:40 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the world of the mysterious and unexplained, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18396
10:40 asciilifeform !#s the confusion of ideas such a question
10:40 a111 7 results for "the confusion of ideas such a question", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=the%20confusion%20of%20ideas%20such%20a%20question
10:41 mircea_popescu lol wtf
10:41 asciilifeform ikr?
10:41 mircea_popescu prolly meant add.
10:41 asciilifeform if he meant add : what then did he read instead of the article
10:41 mircea_popescu there's this add-xor-roll-drop-andfuckyourmother step in ciphers
10:41 asciilifeform which is almost entirely about handling overflow
10:41 asciilifeform xor is really same thing as add but without the carries
10:41 mircea_popescu quite, yes.
10:42 asciilifeform ( kindergarten!11 )
10:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: xor op is a commonly seen element of cargocultisms aha
10:56 asciilifeform seems to be an item that 'feels magic' to the semiliterate folk
10:57 mircea_popescu incidentally, discussion in teh very harem suggests to me that perhaps the word's misunderstood.
10:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what do you think indolence means ?
10:57 asciilifeform 1 of the 'seven sins' neh
10:57 mircea_popescu hm. do you know how to say "mourning" in romanian ?
10:58 asciilifeform doliu ?
10:58 mircea_popescu yes.
10:58 asciilifeform gotta be falsecognate neh
10:58 mircea_popescu and how do you communicate your compassion to the bereaved ?
10:58 mircea_popescu (english word, i mean)
10:58 asciilifeform or hm, 'condolence'
10:59 mircea_popescu condoleances, yes. and how do you petition an authority ? you present a list of ... ?
10:59 asciilifeform grievance ?
10:59 mircea_popescu alternatively, doleances. how do you say painful in english ?
11:00 asciilifeform iirc engl. 'indolence' orig. 'insensitive to pain'
11:00 mircea_popescu dolorous.
11:00 asciilifeform aha
11:00 mircea_popescu and yes, indolence -> painlesness.
11:00 asciilifeform right, 'like brick'
11:00 mircea_popescu which is how it got to (metaphorically) denote superlative laziness : because "so lazy not even hunger will stir", as per that "hung, father, hung".
11:01 asciilifeform aha, it
11:02 asciilifeform i dun see any confusion tho. in fact is why asciilifeform took exception : he is not the least insensitive to pain, but chained to this-here mountain side, and not in a position to avoid the eagle.
11:02 mircea_popescu is this so ?
11:04 asciilifeform is compact description, but yes.
11:04 mircea_popescu well that sucks.
11:04 asciilifeform verily.
~ 30 minutes ~
11:35 ben_vulpes wow Real America is a hell of a place
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11:36 ben_vulpes big titties, friendly broads, women who embrace femininity...
11:37 ben_vulpes apparently impossible to know you wasted your life in the wrong armpit of the world until you visit five others, disabuse self of "everything is equivalently terrible"
11:41 ben_vulpes that said Real America entails far more time with ass in car than i have patience for.
11:45 * ben_vulpes waves at trinque from home battlestation
11:45 trinque hey hey
11:46 trinque y'know at least when you drive a tank around they get out of the way.
11:47 ben_vulpes true also in communistan, visceral fear of large things in rearview apparently universal. i grew up driving a "suburban", aka "urban assault vehicle"; know full well joys of operating twuk
11:47 ben_vulpes "what median?!"
11:58 mircea_popescu word.
12:01 shinohai http://archive.is/W1aIA "the Independent Press Standards Organisation (Ipso) has launched a logo to reassure readers that they are being protected from fake news."
12:01 shinohai A LOGO
12:01 shinohai I'm so saphe now.
12:05 mircea_popescu the sheer idiocy.
12:05 mircea_popescu i hope it's in the shape of a T overimposed over a W. because obviously.
12:06 mircea_popescu "Trigger Warning : you are now venturing into the dangerous waters of publications that do not extend the Clinton-Won-2016-election fanfic." Get me outta here!!!
12:06 asciilifeform that logo existed already , when asciilifeform was a boy : https://rian.com.ua/images/37211/68/372116852.jpg
12:07 asciilifeform ( for extra truthiness, 4 of'em !! )
12:07 mircea_popescu just in case it needed to go to truthcon 4 ?
12:07 asciilifeform aaha.
12:07 mircea_popescu truth CON. see what i did there ? :D
12:09 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the world of quislings ( found via asciilifeform's bl0g referlog, no less ) -- https://www.calyxinstitute.org/about/board << rogue's gallery of tor people, and even... 'riseup'
12:09 asciilifeform #!s riseup
12:09 asciilifeform !#s riseup
12:09 a111 26 results for "riseup", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=riseup
12:10 asciilifeform featuring such honeytraps as a 'Encrypted Internet Peering Project' , 'Secure Broadband Research Testbed' , 'Security & Privacy Focused Mobile Telephony Research' , 'XMPP End-to-End Encryption Standards Development' , etc
12:11 asciilifeform i'd naively imagine theyd've retired and 'unhappened' the name 'riseup' after where it appears in thel0gz.
12:11 asciilifeform ditto debian.
12:12 asciilifeform ' In 2010, after winning a partial release from the gag order, Nick founded The Calyx Institute – a non-profit organization whose goal is to reform the Telecommunications industry with regard to privacy and freedom of expression. Nick has spoken in the Rayburn House Office Building in Washington DC before the 2010 Congressional class, at the Personal Democracy Forum'
12:12 asciilifeform 'Kobi Snitz ... Early in his undergraduate studies in the early 1990's, Kobi has been introduced to the fundamental questions of computer science. These range from questions of computability and the future of computing to questions about computers and society'
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12:12 asciilifeform 'Micah Anderson is the co-founder of RiseUp Networks and has been a Unix system administrator for more than a decade. Micah is also a tech activist working on free software, media activism and corralling servers to create grassroots democratic...'
12:13 asciilifeform 'Carey Shenkman is an attorney specializing in human rights ... Yugoslav International Tribunal ... graduated from New York University School of Law, where he served as an editor of the NYU Law Review' ahahahahahaha
12:13 asciilifeform ^ for perma-record.
12:14 asciilifeform https://www.calyxinstitute.org/about/advisory_panel << even moar 'win', includes for instance a 'Brian Snow joined the National Security Agency in 1971 where he became a cryptologic designer and security systems architect. Brian spent his first 20 years at NSA doing and directing research that developed cryptographic components and secure systems. ...'
12:15 asciilifeform and 'Ian Clarke is the founder and coordinator of the Freenet Project...' << single-handed judas goat and jailer of who knows how many idjits who thought they were 'communicating seekoorely'
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12:16 asciilifeform and... Laura Poitras.
12:16 asciilifeform holy fuq the sheer number of boecks in one box.
12:16 asciilifeform i had nfi there had been such a box.
12:16 asciilifeform and 'bitcoin accepted here.'
12:18 asciilifeform https://archive.is/qbVyU << they have an artful cheat that pretends page simply never existed when archive.is reads it.
12:18 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/xajDy/?raw=true << plain txt snapshot.
12:18 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/kr8Cr/?raw=true << same for the 1st link.
12:20 asciilifeform and ahahahaha they have a... product !! with membership in their bitcoinfoun^H^H^H^H^H^H^ation, https://www.calyxinstitute.org/membership , you get... a magic gsm modem that logsyerpack^H^H^HH^H^Hprotectsyerpriva^H^H^H^whatever.
12:20 asciilifeform 'The Calyx Institute is registered and files an annual report with the Charities Bureau in the office of the New York State Attorney General'
12:20 asciilifeform didjaknow.
12:20 asciilifeform ( http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/j27Jm/?raw=true )
12:21 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/np5TU/?raw=true << 'education missions'
12:21 asciilifeform this is prolly more than enuff material for the nurembers, i'ma stop here.
12:21 asciilifeform *the nuremberg
12:23 asciilifeform to round it up , summary re 'riseup' : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537389 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525131 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-04#1360000 , elsewhere.
12:23 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 17:21 asciilifeform: in other noose, remember the 'riseup' derpatron? the one with the, what, dozen phuctur pops ? well, https://archive.is/PEVaX
12:23 a111 Logged on 2016-08-19 13:51 asciilifeform: https://pad.riseup.net/p/87Mazw3Jsdfe_pm/timeslider#11 << multistory lul tower. for instance, i had no idea what is 'riseup' until its pgp keys began to pop.
12:23 a111 Logged on 2016-01-04 13:52 mircea_popescu: * Tomiii (~Tommiii@garza.riseup.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets << lolwut.
12:23 asciilifeform + http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-30#1459571 .
12:23 a111 Logged on 2016-04-30 01:34 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 9 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'randomnoize (Tor relay operator) <randomnoize@riseup.net>; randomnoize (Tor relay operator) <randomnoize2009@googlemail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542
12:25 shinohai lol riseup i thought that hippy shit was ded
12:26 asciilifeform ftmeade serves up same pisswine in new bottle after new bottle, 4evah
12:27 asciilifeform and apparently these particular derps read the l0gz every fucking day, in search of what to steal and what to boeck over.
12:27 asciilifeform ( may be redundant sentence, it isn't as if they had any other use for which to steal )
12:28 shinohai "garza"
12:28 shinohai hue
12:28 asciilifeform aha.
12:28 asciilifeform who knows whether 'shakespeare, or a man by the same name' but still.
12:38 asciilifeform muchly upstack , http://trilema.com/2011/nu-mai-faceti-upgrade-la-nimic-niciodata from earlier mircea_popescu thread is a good read.
12:39 asciilifeform for bonus lulz ( was this intentional, mircea_popescu ? ) the example proggy, 'opera', is a closed turd
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12:39 asciilifeform ( and since replaced with a ~different~ closed turd, when they threw out the hand-asm or what was it that norwegian ministry of telecom wrote, and replaced with crapple's engine )
12:41 asciilifeform quoting mircea_popescu's comment for the permal0gz : 'Eu nu ma consider un programator, ca am alta meserie. Sa zicem ca sunt un programator amator. Dar chiar si asa, programator amator cum ma gasesc tot am scris citeva zeci de mii de linii de cod in viata asta. Din care minim zece mii pentru web. Vrei sa-ti spun o chestie ? N-am avut niciodata in nici un caz nicicind gauri de securitate in ele. Niciodata. Noa de ce crezi tu ? Am avut
12:41 asciilifeform noroc ? Poate ca am avut noroc. Sau poate ca am scris cod corect, e si asta o alternativa. A programa masini numerice nu este o activitate inductiva, nu ne jucam de-a programarea, nu facem chestii "sa vedem ce se intimpla". Programarea este o activitate deductiva ... '
12:41 asciilifeform i.e. 'how about fitsinhead'
12:47 asciilifeform ( lessee if i properly ate & shat, 'i do not consider myself a programmer, for i have another craft. let's say i am an amateur programmer. and yet though i am an amateur, i find myself having written tens of thou. of loc in this-here life. and at least a min of 10k loc for web. but wanna hear sumthing ? never have i created a security hole in any. never. do you suppose i simply had good luck ? possibly luck. or possibly i wrote the c
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12:47 asciilifeform orrect code! consider that alternative. programming digitalmachines is not an inductive activity, we do not play-pretend at programming, we do not 'let's see what happens' . programming is a ~deductive~ activity...' )
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12:48 asciilifeform whole commentthread lulzy.
~ 18 minutes ~
13:07 ben_vulpes in other racewarz: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/ugly-election-between-white-black-candidates-atlanta-mayor-n826236
13:08 asciilifeform 'The candidates in Tuesday's runoff election for the city's next mayor are both women, both city council members, and both tout support for progressive policies. One is black, the other is white.' << lol so paint the unpainted one, problemsolved!1111!!
13:08 asciilifeform '"There's no way on earth that the city that raised Dr. King … is going to allow ourselves to go backwards," said City Councilman Kwanza Hall.'
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13:11 ben_vulpes dontchaknow, whitefolxareevil
13:11 ben_vulpes see also
13:11 ben_vulpes https://nypost.com/2017/11/27/nurse-loses-job-over-post-suggesting-sons-of-white-women-be-sacrificed/
13:13 asciilifeform https://archive.is/ogLAM << lulgem from same rag as ben_vulpes's link, 'People keep finding hidden cameras in their Airbnbs'
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13:15 ben_vulpes pahaha
13:23 asciilifeform incidentally i cannot resist to ask ben_vulpes , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746707 , what is so 'real' about walmartistan ?
13:23 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 16:35 ben_vulpes: wow Real America is a hell of a place
13:23 ben_vulpes oh did the sarcasm not come through?
13:23 asciilifeform wasn't sure
13:23 asciilifeform was vaguely implied that it was a worthy place
13:24 ben_vulpes i don't capitalize casually, asciilifeform
13:24 asciilifeform i assumed was simply standard 'teutonic' capitalization, lol
13:25 asciilifeform die Maschinen mogen nicht gefingerpoken und mittengrabben... etc
13:25 ben_vulpes ah haha nono, i'd have strung together a LeverforholdingElevatorTrimAdjustmentMechanisminplacifier together in that case
13:26 asciilifeform english folx laugh at these but there isn't a way to even say them in eng.
13:26 asciilifeform consider who oughta be laughing at whom.
13:27 ben_vulpes years though it has been since i spent any significant time speaking/reading delang i still do not laugh
13:27 trinque what great difference does it make whether the notation spaces the words or not
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13:27 asciilifeform asciilifeform ends up emitting things like 'constantspacetimeexponentiator' and he isn't even a german.
13:27 trinque guaranteed the folks reading de are still identifying individual words in the wads
13:27 asciilifeform trinque: it makes a difference, makes tree parsable out
13:27 asciilifeform rather than burying it under the compounds
13:32 trinque if the tree were present it wouldn't be written in a line ltr, not that I argue against the usefulness of being able to synthesize new words.
13:33 trinque tree (or graph really) is still in my noggin
13:34 asciilifeform right, but to put it there costs slightly more.
13:34 asciilifeform and langs without LeverforholdingElevatorTrimAdjustmentMechanisminplacifier tend to get encrusted with abbrev crud, annoyingly.
13:36 * trinque should be better about making a point rather than implying one
13:36 trinque which was, can and should do so in english
13:36 trinque who's stopping?
13:39 * trinque goes to find warmhungerstoppingsustenancewads
13:40 ben_vulpes charmingbutunsavvysomedaybrotherinlaw
13:47 ben_vulpes > these crytpo-collectibles are also gender-fluid, able to play the role of either the "dame" or the "sire" when bred
13:47 ben_vulpes http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42237162
13:47 ben_vulpes lolcats makin scaling hard for buterin and co
13:47 ben_vulpes but, you know, "child pr0n in teh blockchain!"
13:53 asciilifeform 'At the time of writing, the median, or mid-range, price of a CryptoKitty is approximately $23.06 (£17.19), according to Crypto Kitty Sales. The game's top cat brought in $117,712.12 (£87,686.11) when it sold on Saturday, 2 December.'
13:54 asciilifeform this, i suppose, is the 'industry' in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746553
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13:54 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 14:28 mircea_popescu: but the man who decides to pursue pure research and is annoyed that industry meanwhile makes money is in a very strange mental space.
14:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746367 << seems to be back.
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14:00 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 10:31 mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://lurkmore.to/ is now dead ?
~ 20 minutes ~
14:21 asciilifeform meanwhile, orlol does btc, in his own way... https://cluborlov.blogspot.ru/2017/12/cryptomania.html
14:24 asciilifeform ( almost total rip off http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939 , with 'shit bolted on the side' )
14:31 asciilifeform or perhaps moar fairly, rip of http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2011/04/on-monetary-restandardization.html , http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-bitcoin-dies.html , and one other yarvin that i've misplaced
14:33 asciilifeform representative sample, 'bloodsucking bankers and governments are unlikely to be defeated by an algorithm, no matter how clever, because they use far less technical means to enforce their interests: security agencies, criminal investigators and prosecutors, tax auditors, courts and prisons'
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14:33 asciilifeform 'has become a magnet for drug dealers, narcotraffickers, human traffickers, hackers/extortionists and other bad actors. If you use Bitcoin, you automatically end up on the radar of those who hunt for them'
14:33 asciilifeform 'if some government decides that Bitcoin is not its friend, it can simply ask you, nicely at first, to relinquish your cyberwallet to it. I doubt that too many of the Saudi princes that were recently disencumbered of much of their net worth while being tortured by Prince Mohammed bin Salman at the Ritz-Carlton in Riyadh ended up playing coy '
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14:33 ben_vulpes drug dealers and narcotraffickers? omai
14:34 asciilifeform and for the gold medal, 'Worse yet, if a government decides that Bitcoin is its friend, it can ask, nicely at first, that all Bitcoin transactions be disclosed to it in a timely manner, complete with the tax ID of the party at each end of every transaction. This would be a clever way for a government to shift to using digital cash without having to pay for any of it. All it would have to do is order “compliance”; Bitcoin’s deve
14:34 asciilifeform lopers would then have to bring their architecture into compliance or risk prosecution for noncompliance. '
14:34 asciilifeform also includes obligatory discussion of shitcoin-of-the-day ( in orlol's case, 'cryptokitties' ) as if they were bitcoin.
~ 28 minutes ~
15:02 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/GF20z/?raw=true << asciilifeform's comment, preserved in amber, given as orlol has a 5+ yr habit of deleting ideologically impure
15:07 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
15:07 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 11750.27, vol: 12545.61808684 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 11706.0, vol: 54186.59222724 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 11755.0, vol: 3593.74944715 | Volume-weighted last average: 11716.4013971
15:08 asciilifeform apparently no concentration camps until 12000.00 , is the orlolidea.
15:08 asciilifeform ( or 13 ..? which ? )
15:17 asciilifeform 'TheTeddyboy46 said... Virtual Kittens? Now I know Cryptocurrencies are a Scam.' << didjaknow.
15:18 asciilifeform oblig Falkvinge and even Kaiser links.
15:18 asciilifeform even managed to squeeze in the usual spiel re 'physical utility of gold'
15:19 asciilifeform pretty great, apparently d00d blessed with eternal youth, evidently perma-stuck in 2012-14 somewhere.
~ 47 minutes ~
16:07 mircea_popescu and in other scary things, https://fetlife.com/users/7995439
16:08 ben_vulpes "Sorry my friend, you need to be logged in..."
16:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746736 << pretty cool. a course in vagueness...
16:08 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 17:12 asciilifeform: 'Kobi Snitz ... Early in his undergraduate studies in the early 1990's, Kobi has been introduced to the fundamental questions of computer science. These range from questions of computability and the future of computing to questions about computers and society'
16:11 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes https://archive.is/KPpjG/660aa5f6da2780d4a0d5f89f4994708fa6455aec.jpg
16:11 mircea_popescu the caption reads "your favourite slut is back", if that helps anything.
16:11 ben_vulpes can't unsee
16:12 ben_vulpes !!up apeloyee
16:12 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
16:12 mircea_popescu not favourite ?
16:12 ben_vulpes n-noooo
16:13 mircea_popescu no one could have predicted.
16:15 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745606 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745647 ; but you probably guessed already.
16:15 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 22:00 mircea_popescu: !~later tell apeloyee hey, do you want a job working for minigame ?
16:15 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 22:17 mircea_popescu: "oh but mp... really... i can't do anything, not usefully, not well, not within pre-glacial timeframes, not... not..."
16:15 mircea_popescu aite.
16:18 apeloyee I'd like to ask asciilifeform to document the parameter ordering convention in ffa. chapter 1 is straightforward, but the various shifts posted earlier seemed to have their parameters in order which I don't understand.
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16:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746771 << as opposed to what exactly "open" turd out there ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-03#1746024 ? or what precisely are we comparing to here. openbios ? name the standard "open".
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16:18 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 17:39 asciilifeform: for bonus lulz ( was this intentional, mircea_popescu ? ) the example proggy, 'opera', is a closed turd
16:18 a111 Logged on 2017-12-03 23:41 asciilifeform: re gcc, recall also that it's been put on the usg hitlist, they would like to lead it to a level of dysfunction that will have naive folx welcoming its shooting behind the shed and replacement with Officially blessed clang-llvm
16:22 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746777 << quite, yes.
16:22 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 17:47 asciilifeform: orrect code! consider that alternative. programming digitalmachines is not an inductive activity, we do not play-pretend at programming, we do not 'let's see what happens' . programming is a ~deductive~ activity...' )
16:23 ben_vulpes apeloyee: can also reference them by name in ada; i personally hate positional args
16:24 apeloyee but ffa itself, from what I've seen, does not do that.
16:25 ben_vulpes i will admit to still attempting to fit in head the deduction of carry and borrow algo
16:26 apeloyee what part?
16:29 ben_vulpes working out the full adder; i did verify a bunch of the proof table, and then figured that since i have such a tenuous grasp on the subject matter i should do everything asciilifeform recommended.
16:30 ben_vulpes i also need to understand/fit in head/convince myself of the line re "extends to any N bit register".
16:31 ben_vulpes my personal handicaps are neither here nor there, though
16:32 apeloyee I'm still curious what gcd there will be. I admit defeat regarding the binary GCD I posted earlier - after trying to make an extended GCD out of it, it ballooned to 100+ LOC, and it doesn't work. Meaning it doesn't fit in head... (BTW the orginal code snipped I posted has a mux which always picks wrong input)
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16:33 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746781 << motherfucker. allowing idiots by the name kwanza indoors is ALREADY THE PROBLEM.
16:33 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 18:08 asciilifeform: '"There's no way on earth that the city that raised Dr. King … is going to allow ourselves to go backwards," said City Councilman Kwanza Hall.'
16:34 mircea_popescu here's a new atlanta city bylaw : if your name is "kwanza" you go in the pens with the other barn animals.
16:34 mircea_popescu want to go indoors, get a people name.
16:34 mircea_popescu !!up irene_yvonne
16:34 deedbot irene_yvonne voiced for 30 minutes.
16:35 ben_vulpes well, irene_yvonne, who's your daddy and what does he do?
16:35 irene_yvonne hi! we're two friends who saw your article here---> http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/
16:36 mircea_popescu is one friend irene and the other friend yvonne ?
16:37 irene_yvonne yes it is!
16:37 mod6 nice
16:37 mircea_popescu cool. so write b28052e6 on irene and e65280b2 on yvonne.
16:37 irene_yvonne is there any extra credit for one pic with two girls? we also have a cute bitcoin poster
16:37 mircea_popescu check it out, ENDIAN TITS!
16:38 mircea_popescu irene_yvonne do one each, what's to keep you.
16:38 * mircea_popescu takes this opportunity to point out to trinque that LO! (and also... http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746368 )
16:38 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 10:39 mircea_popescu: trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/C0G3d/?raw=true
16:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746857 << plz to be very very specific ? link to specific lines, using http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/
16:44 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 21:18 apeloyee: I'd like to ask asciilifeform to document the parameter ordering convention in ffa. chapter 1 is straightforward, but the various shifts posted earlier seemed to have their parameters in order which I don't understand.
16:44 asciilifeform apeloyee ^
16:45 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746870 << it will be in 8th or possibly 9th chapter, per current plan. so stay tuned.
16:45 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 21:32 apeloyee: I'm still curious what gcd there will be. I admit defeat regarding the binary GCD I posted earlier - after trying to make an extended GCD out of it, it ballooned to 100+ LOC, and it doesn't work. Meaning it doesn't fit in head... (BTW the orginal code snipped I posted has a mux which always picks wrong input)
16:46 asciilifeform from this point on i'ma not spoil it.
16:46 asciilifeform in other lulz, somewhat surprisingly orlov posted asciilifeform's comment , http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2017/12/cryptomania.html?showComment=1512503962841#c7729874167721735094
16:48 mircea_popescu eh, still rehashing the http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/ moldbug talking points ? what is he, 3rd hand pinoy, they only let him have the dead leads ?
16:48 asciilifeform apparently frozen 4evah in year 2013.
16:49 mircea_popescu in this bitcoinarry bit ross, mr levine orlov doesn't get the GOOD leads.
16:50 asciilifeform ( even the typical ru chitchatosphere plankton has advanced from 2013 'sooner or later gas for all' to a 2014 state of the art 'the lizards use btc themselves, hence slow gas' or even a 2015 'lolcatcoin-of-the-future will sink errything as it tanks' etc
16:50 asciilifeform )
16:51 mircea_popescu yeah, so much nonsense available to choose from, why dress from the 2013 dumb store.
16:52 asciilifeform the 'grandmothers sew gold coin into underwear' touch is a bone thrown to his current 'anarchoprimitivist'-flavour-of-dumb readership
16:52 apeloyee i also need to understand/fit in head/convince myself of the line re "extends to any N bit register". << schoolbook addition method shows that the MSB and carry-out depend only on MSB of operands and the carry-in to the most significant place; the carry-in can be derived from result's MSB and the summand's (as their sum modulo 2, aka xor), thus the register width doesn't matter
16:53 asciilifeform ( declared warmism permanently cemented orlov into this company , as typical clitler voter, the other major warmist demographic, tends not to read collapse bl0gz )
16:53 apeloyee plz to be very very specific << chapter 1 is no problem.
16:53 asciilifeform apeloyee: let's work the whole thing here
16:53 asciilifeform take two registers, let's write each from eldest bit to youngest:
16:54 asciilifeform a........{finitely many bits of whatever value}......
16:54 asciilifeform b........{finitely many bits of whatever value}......
16:54 asciilifeform registers X and Y respectively.
16:54 apeloyee asciilifeform: *I* understand.
16:54 asciilifeform so let's write for ben_vulpes et al.
16:54 asciilifeform apologies in advance for log clutter.
16:54 asciilifeform X = a........{finitely many bits of whatever value}...... ; Y = a........{finitely many bits of whatever value}......
16:55 asciilifeform grrrrr X = a........{finitely many bits of whatever value}...... ; Y = b........{finitely many bits of whatever value}......
16:55 asciilifeform carry of X + Y or borrow of X - Y depends on the carry-out of a + b + carry_in , or a - b - borrow_in, respectively.
16:56 asciilifeform i'll expand if ben_vulpes says he wants expansion.
16:56 asciilifeform apeloyee: where then is problem
16:56 asciilifeform re argument notation
16:56 asciilifeform i've been thinking about abolishing function overloading in ffa. ( there is apparently even a pragma for cementing it )
16:57 asciilifeform i've begun to suspect that overloadism is unhealthy, fundamentally.
16:57 apeloyee there was in the old pastes, for example, one procedure FZ_ShiftLeft_O taking 5 arguments, how did you choose thier order?
16:57 asciilifeform and the savings of text 'kilogrammage' -- not worth it.
16:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746785 << i don't get what the fuck ELSE did they imagine it's for ? normal people taking tramps in for a fuck&suck say so. that they don't say so just means they're WEIRD, it doesn't mean "it ain't gonna occur". a tramp's a tramp, a thing, like a hammer, with a proper usage implicit. aaanyway.
16:58 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 18:13 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ogLAM << lulgem from same rag as ben_vulpes's link, 'People keep finding hidden cameras in their Airbnbs'
16:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746799 << faster read. spaces fundamental improvement, like wheel.
16:58 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 18:27 trinque: what great difference does it make whether the notation spaces the words or not
16:58 asciilifeform apeloyee: it went like this, (OF_in : in WBool; N : in FZ; ShiftedN : out FZ; Count : in WBit_Index; Overflow : out Word)
17:00 asciilifeform 'O' stood for 'outputoverflow'. which in turn was exactly same as FZ_Shift_Left_I , which permitted only ~input~ of overflow; which in turn was otherwise identical to FZ_ShiftLeft, which permitted neither.
17:00 apeloyee are those gone now?
17:01 asciilifeform they are not yet reintroduced.
17:02 asciilifeform this is sadly an instance of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745589 , apeloyee : if i can't compactly mark the carry-in and/or carry-out as unreferenced , the compiler shits forth unusably slow bin.
17:02 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 18:08 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you do have a point , though, an ffa that is an ideal mathematical description of every relevant bound, would look slightly different from the ffa i actually have, that has to actually run on idjit cmachine iron in something like real time.
17:02 asciilifeform ( in places where indeed it is unreferenced. )
17:02 asciilifeform so some way of doing so, is forced.
17:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform honestly, i had no idea what the argument PRO overloading was.
17:02 asciilifeform i picked the variant where there are 3 variants of each shifter ( not counting the secret-shift , made per apeloyee's method )
17:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not really sure. iirc i only had it in 1 place, (not yet introduced in tutorial) , where the 'add' has an incarnation that accepts a single WBool to add instead of a whole fz
17:04 asciilifeform i.e. gated-incrementor
17:04 mircea_popescu if your problem is that you want fuck(brunette) and fuck(redhead) to be pretty much the same thing, how about calling it fuck_brunette() and fuck_redhead() instead.
17:04 apeloyee made per apeloyee's method << lol it's simply a standard barrel shifter done in software
17:05 asciilifeform apeloyee: right
17:05 asciilifeform sorta has to be.
17:05 asciilifeform whole of ffa, in fact,
17:05 asciilifeform is a cpu's alu 'done in software'
17:05 asciilifeform as observed in the end of ch.1.
17:08 ben_vulpes fuck_brunette(cunt), fuck_redhead(cunt)
17:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746818 << no, this is the lohotry.
17:08 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 18:54 asciilifeform: this, i suppose, is the 'industry' in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746553
17:08 ben_vulpes question then arises, how do you know from cunt alone whether to fuck a la brunette or redhead
17:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746820 << https://archive.is/lurkmore.to extensive outage. maybe time to mirror it.
17:09 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 19:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746367 << seems to be back.
17:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is exactly industry tho -- lolcats delivered on-spec, timely , and exactly as the purchasers ordered !111
17:09 mircea_popescu nah. you're just bitter.
17:10 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes supposedly redheads are more sensitive.
17:10 asciilifeform to be fair i did not order lolcat. perhaps -- not on time, not to spec, not satisfied users.
17:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's 100% 3rd world whorefare / niunamenos-ism : here's what you can have, pick.
17:11 mircea_popescu !#s "make my own holes"
17:11 a111 5 results for "\"make my own holes\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22make%20my%20own%20holes%22
17:11 mircea_popescu lulzy : between feb 14 and may 15 the price dropped 90%.
17:11 asciilifeform and yet -- supposing the numbers have any relation to reality -- it earned moar than all of asciilifeform's creations summed together.
17:11 asciilifeform ( earned for the peddler, that is )
17:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform didn't we do that thing about young male's "business wet dreams" ?
17:12 asciilifeform possibly
17:12 mircea_popescu i think ~every businessman in luxor center for businessmen made moar than all my creations summed together also.
17:13 asciilifeform if one were to believe their plaquards -- then yes
17:13 asciilifeform but in this case i meant , in reality.
17:13 mircea_popescu actually... i don't think. i... know! http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#comment-122811
17:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what portion of this dogecoin is reality ?
17:13 asciilifeform i'll be the first to admit that i haven't the faintest idea.
17:14 asciilifeform but it isn't beyond the realm of the plausible that the sc4mz0r actually got to take home 100k usd, say.
17:14 asciilifeform or whatever was claimed.
17:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746825 << very fucking lulzy. "zulus are unlikely to be mowed down by machine gun, no matter rate of fire, because THEY ARE REAL MEN"
17:14 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 19:33 asciilifeform: representative sample, 'bloodsucking bankers and governments are unlikely to be defeated by an algorithm, no matter how clever, because they use far less technical means to enforce their interests: security agencies, criminal investigators and prosecutors, tax auditors, courts and prisons'
17:14 mircea_popescu suuure.
17:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i think orlol's argument casts us as the zulu, and usg as the d00dz with the maxim
17:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's not beyuond the realm of the plausible that i fuck some chick and she delivers 3kgs of solid gold 9 months later, by the same measure of realms.
17:15 asciilifeform if i correctly understood.
17:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform words are "no matter how clever, because they use far less technical means"
17:15 mircea_popescu it's nude and rude anti-intelectualism.
17:16 mircea_popescu ie, big ape better than smart ape.
17:16 mircea_popescu which... is a theory.
17:16 apeloyee asciilifeform: just that 5 positional arguments is a bit too much to remember, and I was asking why, say, Count is fourth, and not, e.g. second, so it would be easier to remember which is which. alternatively, can use named arguments.
17:16 mircea_popescu it just never panned out to date is all.
17:16 asciilifeform apeloyee: i'm leaning to using named arguments AND nonoverloaded shift operators.
17:16 asciilifeform at least for shifts.
17:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the least outrageous formulation iirc was something like 'big ape can stay irrational for longer than smart apes can stay solvent' or how it went.
17:17 mircea_popescu other than flying in the face of both logic and evidence, sure.
17:18 asciilifeform well-thrown brick can fly in the face of gravity for a while.
17:18 asciilifeform ( if thrown hard enuff -- for potentially rather long time )
17:18 mircea_popescu but the baked in assumption is that big ape stays rational ~forever~, and this still doesn't sum up to anything good for it.
17:19 mircea_popescu what, it's going to stay irrational EVEN LONGER THAN FOREVER ?
17:19 mircea_popescu mkay.
17:19 mircea_popescu brick has the speed ^ 4 problem.
17:19 asciilifeform ~nobody actually walks around believing , literally, in 'thousand year reich'. most of the believers, on examination, believe in roughly a 30 yr reich
17:19 asciilifeform or however long they expect to live.
17:20 asciilifeform after that, 'le deluge'
17:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746827 << i don't get this. so... "fiat didn't work for fiat dorks ergo bitcoin doesn't work".
17:20 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 19:33 asciilifeform: 'if some government decides that Bitcoin is not its friend, it can simply ask you, nicely at first, to relinquish your cyberwallet to it. I doubt that too many of the Saudi princes that were recently disencumbered of much of their net worth while being tortured by Prince Mohammed bin Salman at the Ritz-Carlton in Riyadh ended up playing coy '
17:20 mircea_popescu if they had enough fucking sense to a) rocket field and b) bitcoin, there'd have been no hotel.
17:20 mircea_popescu i very honestly can't begin to understand how one goes about calling self "saudi prince", but doesn't have to type in code every few hours or else riyadh is flat.
17:21 mircea_popescu it just boggles the imagination. why ? what ELSE are they doing with their time ?
17:21 asciilifeform evidently 'riyadh prince' in fact turned out to be the item presupposed in the linked orlol : merely a version of american office plankton but with 5 or 6 additional zeroes after the decimal point
17:21 asciilifeform but just as easily separated from all of it with well-placed kick
17:22 mircea_popescu i dunno how the original ibn saud tolerated the schmucks tbh.
17:22 mircea_popescu !#s stalin blind kittens
17:22 a111 0 results for "stalin blind kittens", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=stalin%20blind%20kittens
17:22 mircea_popescu pfff. it's in there.
17:22 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-07#1090204 )
17:22 a111 Logged on 2015-04-07 00:10 mircea_popescu: just like having a car doesn't alow having gasoline. it's true that often people who have cars also independently have gasoline, but the two are fundamentally unrelated, and there is such a thing as the fool's breakdown, ie, car's outta gas on the side of hte road.
17:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-10#1365227
17:24 a111 Logged on 2016-01-10 16:52 asciilifeform: 'when i am gone, they will strangle the lot of you like kittens'
17:25 mircea_popescu !!up irene_yvonne
17:25 deedbot irene_yvonne voiced for 30 minutes.
17:25 mircea_popescu totally forgot about the french twins. how's it going you two ?
17:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha ty.
17:27 irene_yvonne mircea_popescu: https://imgur.com/a/IVblB
17:28 irene_yvonne is that ok?
17:28 ben_vulpes nice lipstick graffiti in that first one
17:28 mircea_popescu irene_yvonne quite ok. i take it this;d be irene then ?
17:28 mircea_popescu o both of them, scroll trick.
17:28 irene_yvonne yeap
17:28 mircea_popescu cool. irene_yvonne address ?
17:29 irene_yvonne i'm setting up electrum wallet as we speak, give me a few minutes and i'll give you the address
17:30 mircea_popescu alright, just don't lose yer connection.
17:30 irene_yvonne ok!
17:40 irene_yvonne mircea_popescu: 12GLJWgNUcXSUGpv1SriZEEj1iDDuCDNBr
17:40 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 12GLJWgNUcXSUGpv1SriZEEj1iDDuCDNBr 0.04
17:40 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/02fxT/?raw=true
17:41 mircea_popescu irene_yvonne be a few hours till trinque gets around to it.
17:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746858 << vs whichever, 'lynx', 'firefox', etc. 'opera' was microshit-closed, where you get a few MB of x86 binariolade.
17:41 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 21:18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746771 << as opposed to what exactly "open" turd out there ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-03#1746024 ? or what precisely are we comparing to here. openbios ? name the standard "open".
17:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i very honestly dun see the difference (talking here of ancient opera, not hte ipadization)
17:42 irene_yvonne mircea_popescu: the article said that this isn't one time offer. So, any other photo ideas?
17:42 asciilifeform 'open' contemplated above is the very basic 1990s sense, where 'can i take source, and build for my mips r4000' etc.
17:42 mircea_popescu irene_yvonne not at the moment, but conceivably. how did you end up on it anyway ?
17:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform glhf. can't do such, as we've discovered, with ~anything anyway.
17:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: firefox ( at least few yrs ago ) -- built.
17:43 asciilifeform today -- lynx , still ( of last try ) .
17:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform permit me to link you to http://trilema.com/2017/lets-revisit-the-google-is-irrelevant-discussion/#comment-123812
17:43 asciilifeform trinque has buncha various built for ppc.
17:43 mircea_popescu whenever oen tries -- it doesn't. for as long as one does not try -- "it does just fine".
17:44 irene_yvonne a friend told me about it
17:44 mircea_popescu well, you might consider making yourself a rsa key and registering with deedbot
17:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: speaking strictly of items known to actually work. ( at one time trinque posted a list of what built, and what did not, on his g5 ppc. iirc . trinque ? )
↖
17:44 mircea_popescu like the previous chick ( http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Awer )
17:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think you take mah meanings.
17:45 asciilifeform possibly.
17:45 asciilifeform but will note that, e.g., trb, builds cleanly on e.g. arm ( and iirc ppc also )
17:45 asciilifeform no one afaik yet tried mips, or itanic, or yet moar obscure.
17:46 mircea_popescu lmao, block verification on itanic!
17:46 asciilifeform i simply dun fully buy into the 'gnarly source is exactly same level of retardation as straight microshitization'. it isn't quite same thing.
17:46 asciilifeform palpably separate circles of hell.
17:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the item was very much as described, ~"handwritten asm"
17:47 asciilifeform this -- possible.
17:47 mircea_popescu this is not the same as llvm or wisual-c shittery.
17:47 asciilifeform was iirc surprisingly compact.
17:47 asciilifeform actually reversing hand-asm is a royal bitch compared to gcc or even vs output
17:47 asciilifeform possibly counterintuitively.
17:48 asciilifeform ( do i gotta explain why, or is it obvious )
17:48 mircea_popescu yes, but it IS legitimate source.
17:49 asciilifeform notrly. even handasm item tends to use lotsa macroasm.
17:49 asciilifeform and various other 'cheats' of mass-reduction.
17:49 mircea_popescu there is that.
17:49 mircea_popescu let me put it the proper way : one can not forbid mel from using his craft ; mel can not be required to "learn fortran" to "upgrade" and "keep with the times".
17:50 asciilifeform fwiw when asciilifeform reversed winblowz crapware all day , every day, with timebudget of approx 2days per item, he muchly preferred to encounter vs-built crapola, vs hand-.
17:50 mircea_popescu i believe.
17:50 asciilifeform and fwiw at this point mel is mostly dead.
17:50 asciilifeform ( though -- not entirely . )
17:50 mircea_popescu i also believe.
17:53 asciilifeform from orlolcommentz: ' Much to my surprise, it doesn't translate internationally as easily as one might think. I have a - very - little gold. When I wanted to sell some here in Ecuador early this year, I discovered that in fact there is no-one in Ecuador who buys gold. Moreover, there is also no-one who would take it back to the Perth Mint [Australia] from whence it came. DHL and Fed-Ex only move papers!! There are no couriers. !! I t
17:53 asciilifeform ook it wiht me to Russia - Vladivostok, where I was informed even by the Sperbank branch, that they had no precious metals assayist, for all they knew it could be fake, and thus they too refused to buy it. Luckily for me, I had a private backup for funds, but - it could have been dicey. '
17:57 mircea_popescu o this is ridoinculous
17:58 * mircea_popescu went on a shopping spree bought gold shit for womenz.
17:58 mircea_popescu so it turns out i own much more gold than teh proponent ?
17:58 mircea_popescu !!up irene_yvonne
17:58 deedbot irene_yvonne voiced for 30 minutes.
18:00 * asciilifeform was just having a 'spot the gold' exercise in machineroom with pet
18:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: evidently d00d thought 'gold! movable, liquid, easily testable, 0 tx fee!' 'or hm mebbe not...' moment
18:01 mircea_popescu thing with gold is that it doesn't take altogether much (volume) to get a kg or two
18:02 asciilifeform a kg occupies ~same space as 'standard' chocolate bar.
18:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform thing is, i could prolly sell the girls for their quite literal weight in gold, if it came to it.
18:02 mircea_popescu so who wants teh gold.
18:03 asciilifeform i know of 3 types who want -- 1) crowned heads, largely from inertia 2) gypos, of various nations 3) idjits who 'i'ma usgproof me savings with magic metal'
18:04 mircea_popescu better usgproof with teh womenz.
18:04 asciilifeform i suppose could add a small '4' , a handful of industries ( pcb electroplating shops ) but that's about it.
18:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik old reddit derp can't buy 35 grams of woman.
18:05 mircea_popescu myeah, you;'d have to go to riyadh
18:05 mircea_popescu oh... wait. dayum.
18:05 asciilifeform lol
18:05 mircea_popescu whole shebang might've just become illiquid!
18:05 * mircea_popescu suddenly realises how the news relates to him!!1
18:14 * asciilifeform owns no au beyond what's on the pcbs; reformed former user of au-flavoured goxes, at this point many yrs ago.
18:15 asciilifeform my only mental association with the concept of walking around with small piece of gold -- is the crematorium, the gold teeth pit.
18:16 asciilifeform ( it was also, i suppose , a rings, earrings, pit.. )
18:17 mircea_popescu porcelain better anyway
18:17 mircea_popescu they've been taking out the amalgamated caps.
18:17 asciilifeform aha, long time nao.
18:25 asciilifeform btw mircea_popescu re 46.166.160.36 / http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html : is that box still around ? because if it is, yer trb is hung
18:25 asciilifeform or otherwise it dun answer nomoar.
18:25 asciilifeform ( it is listed as belonging to mircea_popescu )
18:25 mircea_popescu wasn't this the whole pile at the hoster we discontinued ?
18:25 mircea_popescu ip seems right iirc
18:25 asciilifeform that's what i suspected
18:26 mod6 ok, will remove.
18:26 asciilifeform mod6 has been maintaining a maximally current list . that line prolly oughta be struck.
18:26 asciilifeform cool
18:26 mircea_popescu sorry, shoulda said something i guess
18:26 asciilifeform the others -- appear, fwiw, to work.
18:28 asciilifeform also notably, mircea_popescu , yer trb box was the champ medallist, outlived even dulap.
18:28 mircea_popescu i dindu nuffin
18:28 asciilifeform ( was alive a few wks ago, unless my memory betrays me )
18:29 asciilifeform lolk
18:29 asciilifeform while we're on subj : zoolag @ 462075 .
18:29 mod6 updated. thanks asciilifeform.
18:30 asciilifeform asciilifeform is also in the process of standing up trb on dulap-III , an opteron monster not yet homed.
18:30 asciilifeform 32 cpu, 256GB RAM, 1TB ( 750G after raid5 ) 'samsung pro' ssd.
↖
18:42 mircea_popescu "Why exactly does a browser need to ship with any preconceived notions of how to decode video and graphics? Or audio, or text, for that matter?" << fundamentally, because we don't want to permit it to run code.
↖
18:42 asciilifeform pretty sure we did this thread
18:42 asciilifeform no fewer than twice
18:42 mircea_popescu hm. i think you're right
18:43 asciilifeform ( given as item is from ancient asciilifeform article... )
18:44 asciilifeform 'p' stack machine ( to be featured in last episode of ffa series ) is a demo of sane ( e.g. demonstrably-correct and bounded , yet usefully complete operator set ) code execution.
↖
18:46 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-14#1298929 << first, afaik, public mention. pre-dates ffa.
18:46 a111 Logged on 2015-10-14 20:15 asciilifeform: 'p' (draft title) - for the old pgp.
18:47 asciilifeform the thing ffa enables, is to make the 'this-here program takes known number of cycles, and known total bitness of memory' guarantee into an actually feasible thing.
18:48 mircea_popescu math-code-only separator
18:48 mircea_popescu as opposed to control instructions
18:48 asciilifeform there are control instruction, what.
18:49 asciilifeform but if you haven't executed a Q ( halt ) before the stated tick count, yer program is deemed notwellformed.
18:49 asciilifeform ( i.e. if it was intended to be a signature -- it evaluates to 'this is rubbish'; if cryptogram -- ditto; etc )
18:50 asciilifeform not Q-ing before cycle count elapsed, is eggog, same as e.g. div0 .
18:50 mircea_popescu what control instructions are there ?
18:51 asciilifeform there is a forth-style decrementvariable-and-jumpifnotzero.
18:51 mircea_popescu not what i meant. more like "no shell()". no leaving-frame, how shall we put it
↖
18:52 asciilifeform ah lol
18:52 mircea_popescu btw you never got back to me, how many ssds was it ?
18:52 asciilifeform why would we have those.
18:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 4.
18:52 mircea_popescu we wouldn't. that's the point.
18:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and what type ?
18:52 asciilifeform i thought this was clear from the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747116 picture
18:52 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 23:30 asciilifeform: 32 cpu, 256GB RAM, 1TB ( 750G after raid5 ) 'samsung pro' ssd.
18:53 mircea_popescu a cool.
18:53 asciilifeform they're quarter-TBs , such as are sold for industrial temps, '10yr warranty' ( to this day i have nfi how one might go about claiming warranty on a hdd , but we digress ) etc
18:53 mircea_popescu it's for putting in the field.
18:54 asciilifeform i have been using the konsoomer version of similar 'disks' , for some yrs, this type has created the fewest headaches in asciilifeform's machineroom, among 4 various vendors'
18:54 asciilifeform ( i have not tried intel's, simply cannot bring myself to buy. but tried afaik every major other . )
18:56 asciilifeform 'sandisk' is rubbish, fit to stoke oven; 'toshiba' is ~ok ; samsung ok, good for several dozen whole-surface writes, typically ; other types tried to date -- rubbish
18:57 asciilifeform 'kingston' is ~ok for a box that dun write much of anything to disk
18:57 asciilifeform i dun recall specifically whom i left out , of this list, but that's more or less all of the major players.
18:57 asciilifeform ( mircea_popescu , ben_vulpes , trinque , other folx with serious machine fleet, consider to chime in re disk-sellers 0
18:57 asciilifeform )
18:58 mircea_popescu just about, toshiba & samsung
18:58 asciilifeform sadly there is not afaik a known way to make'em 'trim' when they hang off a raid card. but otoh samsung repeatedly shipped units with buggy 'trim' , that randomly zeroed blocks.
18:59 asciilifeform so there is that.
18:59 asciilifeform ( they , characteristically, blamed linux kernel . )
19:00 asciilifeform ( see https://archive.is/CecF8 and elsewhere. )
19:02 asciilifeform to briefly revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747134 : a 'p' proggy can ~produce~ , as output, another such proggy, simply by printing characters. but, pointedly, CANNOT demand to execute it.
19:02 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 23:51 mircea_popescu: not what i meant. more like "no shell()". no leaving-frame, how shall we put it
19:02 asciilifeform ( otherwise it would be trivially impossible to limit cycles )
19:03 asciilifeform the 'produce another pcode' mechanism is how e.g. key generation works.
19:03 mircea_popescu rahter : any set of data is some kind of p "program".
19:03 mircea_popescu sorta special kind of cellular automata.
19:04 asciilifeform correct.
19:04 asciilifeform ( all opcodes are 1byte. )
19:04 mircea_popescu the most elegant approach to deal with correctness, or acceptability w/e you state it. "there is no such thing"
19:04 asciilifeform aaha.
19:18 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/no-such-labs-snsa-november-2017-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), November 2017 Statement
19:18 asciilifeform aha!
19:19 asciilifeform fridan << 'Бананы давно облетели, И тигры давно облысели, Но каждую пятницу, Лишь солнце закатится, Кого-то жуют под бананом.' (tm)(r)
19:20 asciilifeform ( src, https://archive.is/c50GL , classic. )
19:21 asciilifeform *friday
19:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you forgot 's.nsa' wptag
19:24 asciilifeform briefly revisiting upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747117 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747122 >> there is no reason why the execution of ~any~ program, e.g. browser graphicolade renderer, whose output is known, byte for byte, in advance by the author, should not follow the 'p' model.
19:24 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 23:42 mircea_popescu: "Why exactly does a browser need to ship with any preconceived notions of how to decode video and graphics? Or audio, or text, for that matter?" << fundamentally, because we don't want to permit it to run code.
19:24 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 23:44 asciilifeform: 'p' stack machine ( to be featured in last episode of ffa series ) is a demo of sane ( e.g. demonstrably-correct and bounded , yet usefully complete operator set ) code execution.
19:25 asciilifeform specifically, proggy that a) accepts no input, other than itself or b) accepts input, but does not ~branch~ on it -- can and really ougta 'say on the box' how many cycles it will consume, and how much memory it will require in its life.
19:26 asciilifeform whether we are discussing a rsagram, or the decompression of a pr0nbitmap.
19:27 asciilifeform or the recording for playing of whatever grunting noises through the speaker (which is really simply a specialized program)
19:27 asciilifeform in all of these cases, output, and the required time and space, are known in advance.
19:33 trinque mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yo5jo/?raw=true
19:36 ben_vulpes phf, asciilifeform do you know anything about "Wukix" the lisp system author(s)?
19:36 asciilifeform nope
19:37 asciilifeform tho iirc ben_vulpes linked to it before
19:37 asciilifeform some yrs ago
19:37 asciilifeform was something like cmucl-for-crapplepnoje
19:38 asciilifeform payware.
19:38 ben_vulpes myes, today i stumbled across https://wukix.com/lisp-decimals
19:39 asciilifeform >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475432 << thread
19:39 a111 Logged on 2016-06-03 04:15 ben_vulpes: phf, asciilifeform: any experience with "mocl"?
19:40 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475471 << i take it did not come to this ?
19:40 a111 Logged on 2016-06-03 05:33 ben_vulpes: i am likely going to buy a license because what, i pay half that per year per staff member just to derp on ios shits with some modicum less of friction
19:41 ben_vulpes did not, no
19:42 ben_vulpes other things vastly more important and costly
19:43 asciilifeform it being payware, that no one in asciilifeform's wot has to date used, asciilifeform cannot comment.
19:43 asciilifeform in re commercial lisps , i've used lispworks, franz ( allegro ) , and bolix.
19:43 asciilifeform and only allegro with any degree of serious.
19:43 asciilifeform i have nfi whether the ipnoje thing , actually worx, or to what extent.
19:45 ben_vulpes today i am more curious to know if 'wukix' has any sort of wreckerage fame
19:46 asciilifeform nfi, ipnojism is darkmatter to me.
19:46 ben_vulpes googlephone too nominally; 'cross platform'!!!1
19:47 ben_vulpes dunno what i'd least prefer soiling myself with; crap ass cl wrapper around java or...java
~ 48 minutes ~
20:35 mircea_popescu trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/adN0h/?raw=true
20:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform a ty
~ 39 minutes ~
21:14 mircea_popescu in other random lulz, http://shoebat.com/2016/08/18/muslims-in-uk-try-to-force-romanians-to-comply-with-shariah-law-prohibition-against-alcohol-the-romanians-say-no-and-then-beat-the-muslims-with-baseball-bats-and-destroy-their-business-and-their/
21:14 mircea_popescu there shall be no AA!
21:20 asciilifeform from same rag, 'Nazi Cult In Germany Is Murdering Children, Cutting Them To Pieces, And Conducting Human Experiments On Them' ; 'The Islamic Government Of Turkey, And Its European Allies, Are Making Plans On Committing Mass Genocide Against Christians, And Enslaving...' etc
21:21 asciilifeform 'Every Five Minutes A Christian Is Killed For The Faith, Click Here To Save Christian Lives' << apparently the 'ransom from berbers' scamola did not end with the 18th c..?
21:25 mircea_popescu what ever ends.
21:26 asciilifeform certainly not chumpatron that soldiers right-along as ever before, without even oil changes.
21:28 * mircea_popescu remembers the good old days when berbery pirates stuck their filthy fingers up maidens' snatches snatched on the seas to probe for joolry.
21:28 asciilifeform or at least mythologically.
~ 24 minutes ~
21:52 trinque mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LzJob/?raw=true
21:56 mircea_popescu very mythologically.
21:59 mircea_popescu trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ednLn/?raw=true
22:05 trinque mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zN3sU/?raw=true
~ 21 minutes ~
22:26 mircea_popescu aty
22:29 mircea_popescu aaand in other shock and awe waves, http://78.media.tumblr.com/83f57327b8d7a4a845edb2275ef47ddd/tumblr_n6b1ervn7i1s9sr6mo1_500.gif
22:43 deedbot mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kZq05/?raw=true
22:53 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747044 << at least emacs, sbcl, X, vlc, postgresql come to mind.
22:53 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 22:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking strictly of items known to actually work. ( at one time trinque posted a list of what built, and what did not, on his g5 ppc. iirc . trinque ? )
~ 15 minutes ~
23:09 * mircea_popescu opts not to ask "on arbitrary iron or on selected iron ?"
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