Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-07-09 | 2018-07-11 → ↓
08:36 diana_coman !!key greekboi_
08:36 deedbot Not registered.
08:46 diana_coman !!key greekboi
08:46 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/DB00D64143395DD3E4971270EA919A23CBE329CC.asc
~ 38 minutes ~
09:24 diana_coman phf, I'm having trouble with latest vtools it seems (gcc and gnat version at the end of paste): http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WJios/?raw=true
09:27 diana_coman moreover, v.pl doesn't see/accept all patches: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/45WHe/?raw=true
~ 21 minutes ~
09:48 spyked diana_coman, I think v.pl will press either side of the http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools tree (keccak or sha), but not both. also, re. error, vtools_fixes_static_tohex should fix it. I've also encountered the linking error in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-21#1816314 and earlier.
09:48 a111 Logged on 2018-05-21 11:48 spyked: it might also in a way be interesting to report how I stumbled upon this: I tried to recompile gnupg-1.4.10 on my broken debian system and got the same "multiple definition" linking errors as in vtools' case (though I *did* use gcc<5). so I dug and found the usual kochs "fixing" things to compile gnupg on newer gccs.
09:49 diana_coman spyked, but it doesn't see even 1 side fully
09:49 diana_coman or what, I need to delete the patches from the other side? hmmm, let me try that
09:52 spyked that oughta work. I can't find the discussion where phf recommended this approach of keeping just one side of the tree in the patchset.
09:53 diana_coman right you are, it does work! thank you spyked, you saved me a ton of time really
09:53 diana_coman I even remember the issue being discussed now that you mention it
09:54 diana_coman I guess I'll leave a comment on his blog for easier future ref
09:56 phf yes
09:58 diana_coman done; ref discussion seems to be http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-20#1803535
09:58 a111 Logged on 2018-04-20 04:03 trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LlO7Z/?raw=true << doesn't seem like it's flowing the whole way down one branch, unless I've got tired eyes over here
10:01 mod6 mornin'
10:10 diana_coman hi mod6
10:10 mod6 how goes today diana_coman?
10:12 diana_coman not bad, at least some things are working! heh
10:12 diana_coman how's it for you mod6 ?
10:12 mod6 oh nb. deleted one side of the tree, now it's ok eh?
10:13 diana_coman aha, I just entirely forgot that discussion until spyked mentioned it
10:13 mod6 glad you got it goin
10:13 mod6 i just realized that i want pancakes
10:13 mod6 i never eat pancakes
10:17 phf like i said couple of days ago i'm going to forward merge that whole right side, right now the only advise is to delete the right hand side because none of the extant V's can resolve that graph, obviously a suboptimal suggestion. i'm working on a better grapher, but until then..
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10:17 phf *advice
10:18 asciilifeform phf: didja try it with my ancient v99 ? how does it die ?
10:21 phf let me retest it, but as far as i recall it was producing a patch order that doesn't press
10:22 asciilifeform interesting
10:22 asciilifeform cyclical graph ?
10:23 phf asciilifeform: nope, another form that as of now doesn't have a name
10:24 asciilifeform canhaz rough topological sketch ?
10:24 phf asciilifeform: i need to upload it into my brain first, let me get back to you on that one
10:24 asciilifeform aite
10:27 asciilifeform the http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools picture suggests that it's the classic mistake of spuriously bifurcated tree, the kind of thing that had trinque & mircea_popescu raging in the old days and prompted manifest.txt etc
10:28 asciilifeform it should still press tho ( into a broken proggy, but this is the fault of whoever forgot to unify the tree )
10:31 phf asciilifeform: well, i'm not sure what "spuriously bifurcated tree" means in this case, the goal was stated in the one of the posts, that i'm explicitly maintain two separate branches, that hinge on two separate manifest paths. this is the kind of stuff v is designed for neh? press to vdiff_sha_static to get one thing, press to vtools_vpatch_newline to get the other
10:31 asciilifeform oh hm
10:31 phf there is a manifest in this version of vtools
10:31 asciilifeform so if the 2 are genuinely separate items, why would it break on press
10:33 * asciilifeform bbl,tea
10:33 phf ah see the graph is misleading, because btcbase base grapher culls it. we've ran into similar issue back in the heavy experimental trb days, so one of the very first things that the btcbase distinguished itself on is producing a graph of possible presses, rather than pure antecedent/descendent. this was discussed and documented in the logs, in before "why you do that!1"
10:39 phf in order to produce a graph there's a walk to root phase, the walk keeps track of press state at each node and dismisses connections edges that result in an invalid state. now WHY this is needed is because each individual vpatch doesn't keep track of the entire state, but only about its particular subset of state that changed.
10:41 phf if you want to reduce the problem to a "don't do this" policy, then it stems from repeated hunks across multiple vpatches, i.e. if you have two or more vpatches that have identical state transitions. something like that is bound to happen when you're attempting to port a feature between branches, as is the case with vtools. (i.e. you patched foo.c in one file "remove broken behavior", you now want to also introduce same fix to the other branch)
10:43 phf so policy wise, like you say "no cyclical graphs" you can say "no identical changes in more than one v patch"
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10:44 phf manifest doesn't solve this problem, because manifest doesn't get any kind of priority treatment. if you hinged your press purely on a manifest descendent/antecedent chain then everything else will just work™
10:50 asciilifeform phf: right, i grasped this, hence why i wrote a demo impl of trinqueian algo ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html ) which actually does solve it
10:51 phf right
10:51 asciilifeform but so far nobody seems to see it as dire enuff problem to actually resort to this
10:51 phf yeah, obviously total state eliminates all the "multiple state transitions in a single vpatch" related problems
10:52 asciilifeform i was the loudest whine against the trinqueian algo, but then grasped the wisdom of it meself and actually wrote a working proggy for it
10:52 * asciilifeform brb,meat
10:54 phf well, i kind of dig the emergent v graph behaviors, so i don't mind it either way, though btcbase doesn't press cleanly either (^ "all extant V's"). nothing keeping one from tacking on additional state to a crystalized vpatch either, and then you're stuck with another "though shall not, because reasons"
10:57 phf (btcbase doesn't choke on circular graphs, though in a general case it bails. if the circle is in the descendants order is determined by walk's order of entry, a circle back to genesis though can still be broken by explicitly designated something as "genesis", etc.)
10:58 phf http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=vtools&type=transition vs. http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=vtools&type=ad
11:02 phf also http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=stable&type=transition vs http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=stable&type=ad
~ 19 minutes ~
11:21 mircea_popescu in other lulz from the slutfields, "thepantiechrist"
11:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833125 << something the manifest should actually fix ; if it's included why doesn't it fix it ?
11:30 a111 Logged on 2018-07-10 14:43 phf: so policy wise, like you say "no cyclical graphs" you can say "no identical changes in more than one v patch"
11:31 mircea_popescu moreover, how can "more than one" vpatch be ~identical~ ? items of the same name and contents are the only items that have the same hash, which is the only basis for identity.
11:31 mircea_popescu how are you distinguishing those more than one patches of the same content by the same name ?
11:38 phf mircea_popescu: i didn't say more than one vpatch are identical, i said that they shouldn't contain identical changes. a single vpatch can contain changes for several files. if two vpatches have a same subset of changes to individual files you have a problem.
11:38 mircea_popescu why ?
11:39 mircea_popescu i don't understand this, you mean patch A having changes a, b, d, e (ie, 4 different patch sections) and B having c, d, e, f ?
11:39 phf yes
11:39 mircea_popescu why would this be a problem ?
11:41 mircea_popescu let me ask you this : is your visualizer essentially a by-file processor ? because this'd be wrong, the concept of "file" is meaningless, entirely just like "new line". text administration flows by viewport and so on.
11:41 phf i don't know what a by file processor is
11:41 phf actually, i think i have a memory of that, and no btcbase is entirely hash first
11:42 mircea_popescu the only reason i can imagine someone'd have the problem you describe is if they built their thing around the primitive "file" rather than around the primitive "patch"
11:42 mircea_popescu so if it's built around patches and the patches are different what difference does it make that two different patches might apply the same tranforms to the same files ?
11:42 phf mircea_popescu: the problem i describe exists in every single V implementation, hence none of them can press a particular graph
11:42 mircea_popescu this may well be. i just don't get why.
11:43 phf well, i'm having hard time thinking about it, yet alone articulating it. like i told ascii (before we continued talking about it anyway), i need some time to reupload the problem, because i haven't thought about it in a while.
11:44 mircea_popescu not very much though.
11:45 phf i haven't thought about it very much?
11:50 mircea_popescu there isn't very much time!
11:52 mircea_popescu however much time you might need to think, there isn't very much time altogether, because we can't sit around with an unresolved dilemma of both "this is the grapher use it" and "don't use it, doesn't work".
11:54 phf ah ah
12:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the headache is from the fact of notion of 'file' having been baked quite firmly into unix patch util. the only 'final solution' presently known to asciilifeform for the entire class of topological ugh, is the trinquian cut.
12:05 asciilifeform i suppose there is also the other variant, where manifest.txt actually gets speshul treatment. but imho that's ugly.
12:06 asciilifeform ( in trinquian algo, it is impossible to create multiple paths to the same state without creating a cycle, and the latter are detected by the cycle finder )
12:09 mircea_popescu in my own notes phf had written a replacement!
12:10 mircea_popescu recall, the huge discussion re patch / vpatch ?
12:10 asciilifeform iirc his replacement still follows the ancient algo.
12:11 * asciilifeform has not eaten phf's proggy yet
12:12 mircea_popescu that's why i asked!
12:13 phf originally my replacement was for diffing and patching exclusively, not the graph resolution problems. i was tasked with a replacement around the time when my food work got heavy, and i'm only now revisiting it. the problem wasn't even verbalized until closer the the end of vtools development, because particular choice of vtools delivery demonstrated the problem to begin with
12:13 mircea_popescu right.
12:14 phf btcbase (being a sprawling common lisp beast) has one of the possible solutions actually implemented and working. i'm wrestling the essence of it out, enough to add some kind of graph sorter to vtools
12:14 mircea_popescu i'm not proposing you should be hung or anything.
12:15 phf i figured that's not the case, i'm just reiterating the logs for the logs, because the evil twin of not reading the logs is apparently forgetting what was read in the logs
12:15 asciilifeform imho dispensing with 'files as a unit' is The Right Thing, rather than complicated graph walkers. but i'ma not replay the trinque thread.
12:17 mircea_popescu and the smalle third brother is reference-by-memory, where i say dumb shit like "that @@ discussion" instead of putting in a link.
12:17 mircea_popescu then ten years later memory's faded and nobody alive can untangle the yarn anymore.
12:18 phf personally-advantageous-obfuscation by reference-by-memory, we're reinventing the empire here
12:18 asciilifeform lol
12:18 mircea_popescu ikr.
12:22 mircea_popescu fwiw, memory never was anything other than "personally advantageous". them wetram cells gotta pay the glucose bills.
12:23 asciilifeform in the interest of proper log walks , 1) trinque whacks asciilifeform over the head with the headache of fileism, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765542 2) asciilifeform builds a trinqueian vtron frontend, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792071
12:23 a111 Logged on 2018-01-05 23:18 trinque: you edit db.cpp. I edit main.cpp. how does someone now use both of those pieces of work in a 3rd patch.
12:23 a111 Logged on 2018-04-02 22:04 asciilifeform: trinque, phf , other vtronicists : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html
12:24 asciilifeform ( (1) was not the only instance, there were several, above link is most recent where asciilifeform was still resisting )
~ 22 minutes ~
12:46 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the world of the strange, https://orbides.org/page.php?id=1026
12:48 asciilifeform ^ d00d has own crackpot x86 os and various other tidbits.
~ 31 minutes ~
13:20 mircea_popescu man aloooone!
13:31 mircea_popescu in other similar news, star quest tcg is a pretty fucking great game. polished and shit, apparently you can still have web development that's not crap
13:33 asciilifeform !!up RusAlex
13:33 deedbot RusAlex voiced for 30 minutes.
13:36 asciilifeform RusAlex: hello ?
13:37 RusAlex hi, thanks for voicing. just found a link on bitcoin.foundation and Im here.
13:37 asciilifeform RusAlex: i recommend to read the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/
13:37 asciilifeform RusAlex: chances are that you will find answer to your q. incl q that you didn't know you had.
13:39 mircea_popescu especially those.
13:45 asciilifeform meanwhile, in heathendom , https://archive.fo/RVOJd << stuxnet-style 'oops, taiwan 'lost' microshit signing keys' rerun.
13:47 asciilifeform https://archive.fo/ptBDO << for dedicated entomologists, detail.
13:48 asciilifeform might be interesting to collect whole set of microshit rsa certs into phuctor.
13:48 asciilifeform ( for all i know, they're already in, dressed up as gpg keys by somebody or other... )
~ 26 minutes ~
14:15 mircea_popescu i'm having for breakfast leftover sandwiches that were originally made for camping on the beach, so i figure... what the hell... and made myself a little model campfire out of toothpicks in the middle of the table.
14:15 mircea_popescu just thought the record should recleft.
14:17 asciilifeform didja stick one of those tiny sandwitch sabers in it ?
14:21 mircea_popescu i dun have any ;/
14:21 mircea_popescu and it shames me to admit just exactly how i came to not have any.
14:22 asciilifeform i'll bite. how ?
14:24 mircea_popescu broke them all trying to stab various butts & parts over time.
14:24 mircea_popescu they're not very well made, for sabers.
14:25 asciilifeform asciilifeform once saw -- i shit thee not -- titanium toothpicks for sale
14:26 mircea_popescu silver ones were kinda common during one of the silver crazes
14:26 asciilifeform https://titaner-store.com/products/toothpicks << at least 1 vendor making these today, apparently
14:27 mircea_popescu though if you're willing to spend money on silver tootpick why not just fix the holes.
14:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828036 << this has been sloshing through my head for a while now ; and while it seems eminently correct a stance, and rather very much the manner in which we've been conducting our affairs to date, it readily also provides a solution for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746522
14:32 a111 Logged on 2018-06-21 15:33 asciilifeform: Mocky: to function as a troo vtronicist, gotta grasp the concept, described by e.g. dijkstra, that a line of code you have written is not an asset, but an expense. (specifically, an expense against the time budget of other thinking people, who must read and grasp what you have written. )
14:32 a111 Logged on 2017-12-05 14:17 asciilifeform: as for asciilifeform , he would actually prefer if mircea_popescu shot straight and said 'hell no i won't pay for no stinkin' software', rather than the peculiar ritual of having a contest, then to proclaim the submitters as a whole 'self-indulgent indolent' and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway
14:32 mircea_popescu specifically, writing software is not some kind of hired work, like polishing boots or cutting hair. writing software is a dignity, in the exact sense there contemplated : republic gives you, ivan ivanovich, a budget of so many lines, as if it were so many bitcoins, to ~EXPEND~ in a defensible, meaningful, useful an' rational fashion ( hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832667 discussion ).
14:32 a111 Logged on 2018-07-07 18:19 mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
14:32 mircea_popescu just because it happens that in all other cases of "you're in charge of so-and-so-chapter of defense budget/film budget/family budget" one gets a fixed number to work with, whereas here the number's not aforeknown... makes entirely no difference. it's still budgetary exercise, that superficial difference is meaningless given the substantial identity.
14:32 mircea_popescu hm, this "write line as long as you wish, program will split" fix turns out to not play so well with logreader...
14:32 mircea_popescu i guess ima have to start actually hitting returns
14:33 asciilifeform lol
14:38 asciilifeform there is really nuffin magic or arcane re the dijstrean approach to programming. from asciilifeform's pov, it is simply continuation of the old su approach to engineering, where parts have not only physical mass but complexity-mass, and a rifle with 7 parts that take 28 mill cuts to make is superior to one with 47 that take 200 cuts, even if weighs same
14:38 mircea_popescu quite.
14:39 mircea_popescu and moreover, it is the only possible approach.
14:39 asciilifeform there are folx who labour under illusion that other approaches are possible, but they won't like where their lift is going.
14:39 asciilifeform ( to latrine cellar. )
14:40 Mocky and moreover, a compounding expense (for software lines) forcing extra expense for future modifications
14:41 asciilifeform Mocky: 'expense' is not even a proper description. there aint enuff money on planet3 to buy e.g. transformation of microshit coadbase to anywhere near sanity.
14:42 mircea_popescu the only blessing is that you can cut off nodes.
14:42 mircea_popescu which is why the whole wot thing works so well for it.
14:43 Mocky asciilifeform, zackly: compounded expense now beyond paying
14:43 asciilifeform programming sans wot is rather similar to surgery pre-handwash. yer playing the 'did he take a shit that morning' lottery.
14:43 mircea_popescu not to mention it readily explains a lot of other things, such as why we opress the stupid, the poor, the "alternatively" sexuate, the bizarrely literate etcetera.
14:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform very much, technology sufficiently primitive is indistinguishable from lottery
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14:45 asciilifeform !!up sluttylouise
14:45 deedbot sluttylouise voiced for 30 minutes.
14:45 asciilifeform seems like we have a mircea_popescu patient ?
14:45 mircea_popescu heh
14:46 asciilifeform lol expired on the operating table ?
14:46 mircea_popescu computers are hard, what can i tell you.
14:47 asciilifeform hey i got some hard enuff to hammer nails with here!111
14:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i can only admire the level of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829969 conspiraci : clueless girly logs on, it ~immediately~ resets its connection and launches a new one. 100% the cheapest most effectual confusion factor.
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14:50 a111 Logged on 2018-06-26 21:20 hanbot: mircea_popescu by design apple exists to try and make you use its thing, whether it's some itam or some os or some cable, and it'll make things maximally unpleasant for anyone not on the bandwagon, at any point where the nonapple and the apple touch.
14:51 mircea_popescu how the empire manages to ~DELIVER~ right around the fence is one of the most remarkable mysteries.
14:51 mircea_popescu sluttylouise little red tab right next to this one.
14:51 asciilifeform crapple-pnoje has the 'background proggy gets kill -STOP after 30 sec' thing
14:52 asciilifeform not really usable for irc without bouncer
14:52 mircea_popescu i doubt it was background.
14:52 asciilifeform either that or the train went in tunnel.
14:53 mircea_popescu same ip, see ?
14:53 asciilifeform at one time i reproduced exactly same pattern , in train.
14:53 mircea_popescu no, it just somehow manages to deliver 100% of what needs delivery to the marginal. it does nothing to you, and the fact that it manages to keep kazure captive is of no consequence
14:53 mircea_popescu soviet survives while it can keep the large mass of epsilonians inside.
14:54 asciilifeform hey, loads lolcats, what moar could 'anyone' want, right.
14:54 mircea_popescu it is not quite that simple.
14:56 asciilifeform hm?
14:58 mircea_popescu suppose there's a measure of human fitness, not quite IQ but anyway, just as insanely, a positive integer scalar. suppose there's a measure of human confusion, going from 0 (full pantrsuit, actually believes socialism is a thing, etc) to 1 (actual republican).
14:58 mircea_popescu now, the fence separating the 2nd scale 0-epsilon from the rest of the world doesn't necessarily keep inside 0-epsilons on the first scale.
14:58 mircea_popescu they're not unrelated scales, of course, but they're related backwards.
15:03 Mocky re: ~DELIVER~ right around the fence: there's a lot of zeks employed working around the appleness to make new shiny for the epsilonians. part of the chumpatron
15:03 mircea_popescu certainly, but most us army grunts have to buy their own whatever, silly string.
15:08 BingoBoingo In other news of interest to asciilifeform: Tienda Inglesa has taken down their seasonal display of TV's for the word cup and replaced them with a display of... Ammo can... well, they labeled them toolboxes
15:14 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/07/un-funds-witchcraft-program-at-university-of-zambia/ << Qntra - UN Funds Witchcraft Program At University Of Zambia
15:22 phf hmm, cp101pa hardware is really flaky, or perhaps i got a dud unit, because the "random shutdowns" "can't wake up" "stuck in a turn on/turn off mode" issues persist
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15:22 asciilifeform phf: didja take the heatsink off ? if yes, gotta regrease
15:23 phf nah, i didn't go as far as motherboard removal. i was thinking this might be heat issue, but that would be out of the box, and the pattern don't really correspond to heating
15:24 phf tried to turn it on right now, the lightbulb blinking rapidly and there's like a "turn on suddenly turn off" whine from board if you listen up close
15:25 asciilifeform sounds like dud box, mine did not do this
15:25 phf so i closed the lid, reopened tried again, now it boots, but the unix time is at 0
15:25 phf just literally lightly moved the unit, it shut down
15:27 phf sad, i was warming up to it as a note taking tool..
15:31 phf asciilifeform: have you been using yours extensively, i.e. as a booted device, running linux etc. on a day to day, or it's only been on trepanation table so far?
15:31 asciilifeform phf: in graveyard nao, but i had it running continuously off the dc brick for coupla weeks
15:35 asciilifeform phf: possibly pertinent diff, is that i regreased it
15:35 asciilifeform ( scraped off the factory white shitgrease when photo'd mb )
15:36 phf hm, possibly
15:39 mircea_popescu maybe it does not approve of your room.
15:39 asciilifeform wouldn't be the first example of chinesium that overtherms with factory grease.
15:39 phf i'm going to go with mp's theory
15:43 BingoBoingo Right, the problem has to be your room isn't intimidating it enough into behaving. Pick up a car battery and some cables with alligator clamps. Don't attach the battery to the machine. Just let it sit where the chromebook can see it.
15:44 mircea_popescu maybe if we keep going in this vein we can get the un to sponsor trilema.
15:44 BingoBoingo Sometimes the implied threat works better making the technology behave
15:45 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> maybe if we keep going in this vein we can get the un to sponsor trilema. << Phf hasn't turned the chromebook into ladypants yet
15:46 phf BingoBoingo: i think it's about the right mindset though, can have all the tools in the world, and you're still going to look like a jerk off. nah, i think i just need to get my head game straight
15:55 mircea_popescu your what ?
15:56 BingoBoingo His headgame, the series of puzzles he presents to size up strangers.
15:57 phf it's the lingo cool kids use these days
15:59 mircea_popescu apparently http://btcbase.org/log/2013-08-22#251228
15:59 a111 Logged on 2013-08-22 17:41 mircea_popescu: <Rulother> you know you can't just power cycle a machine with no idea what's going on :D
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
17:04 deedbot http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/10/some-branching-troubles-on-existing-v-trees/ << Ossasepia - Some Branching Troubles on Existing V Trees
17:08 BingoBoingo !!up Scwepp
17:08 deedbot Scwepp voiced for 30 minutes.
17:11 Scwepp Did men create everything in this world?
17:17 diana_coman Scwepp, did you solve all the other, more close to home problems and that's the only trouble you have left?
17:17 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832349 << yes, I am interested in trying this
17:17 a111 Logged on 2018-07-06 17:24 trinque: maybe PeterL or danielpbarron want to give it a try too
17:18 mircea_popescu ave1 ^ btw ( the article, not the retard)
17:20 diana_coman huh, no stamina even, where are the retards d'antan
17:20 mircea_popescu i was just thinking, it's so rare for one to take a hint.
17:21 diana_coman there were at least 2 pointy hints this time!
17:21 asciilifeform wtf is a scwepp anyway
17:22 diana_coman the sound made in the void between the ears?
17:22 mircea_popescu speaking of pointy things, got any shiny rock ?
17:23 diana_coman ahaha, I just dug up some q67
17:24 mircea_popescu yay!
17:25 PeterL so I have been looking at v. (specifically asciilifeform's python version) it seems to me that there should be a "pruning" step after the flow is laid out to remove any patches that are not ancestors of the desired leaf, so that you would not have to manually remove patches.
17:25 asciilifeform PeterL: read again the algo. at no point will it attempt to press a patch that is not an ancestor of the selected leaf.
17:26 PeterL but then why are people having trouble with the two branches of vtools?
17:27 asciilifeform i'm still waiting to hear what, specifically, happens on v99 re subj ( currently hands full, haven't tested personally )
17:27 PeterL it seems like with branches a-b-c and a-b-d it ends up making a flow a-b-c-d ?
17:28 diana_coman fwiw it's not a matter of pressing weird stuff - v.pl doesn't even report some patches in the flow at all if ALL patches in both branches are present
17:28 * asciilifeform brb,meat
17:28 diana_coman the actual pressing as far as v reports the flow works as expected
17:31 mircea_popescu PeterL you know there are limits to this hobbyist approach.
17:31 PeterL yes, I know
17:35 mircea_popescu solving any problem consists of carefully loading very finely defined borders of issues in one's head. the hobbyst approach relies on a sort of "generally speaking", consisting of "people" and "having trouble" and "in the general area". as you might imagine, the mismatch is deeply irritating to the first set.
17:36 PeterL alright, I will try to refine my language
17:37 diana_coman did anyone actually press the re-grind of mp-wp genesis ? (this: http://thewhet.net/2018/06/mp-wp-genesis-regrind/ )?
17:37 mircea_popescu presumably, hanbot. why, it dies ?
17:38 diana_coman today is clearly not my day for working stuff; it's the weirdest thing I've seen: v.pl dies at *different files* at each run complaining that sha sum doesn't match
17:38 diana_coman and on one hand the file complained about has only *one* entry in the genesis vpatch i.e. just created so wtf
17:39 diana_coman and on the other hand sure enough the hash calculated on whatever it spew of it is the one it reports and ofc it doesn't match what is in the vpatch
17:39 mircea_popescu epic.
17:39 mircea_popescu encoding issue ? did some magic utshits make it in maybe ?
17:39 diana_coman so I'm asking here as honestly I had quite enough of software for today
17:41 diana_coman no idea but fwiw I was playing with it on the rockchip; as far as I can tell both lobbes and esthlos used some previous versions; (btw esthlos can you maybe show the date of the post somewhere convenient? it's really weird to have to guess it/search for it)
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17:42 diana_coman ah, um, nv esthlos ; found it at the bottom, lol
17:42 mircea_popescu ftr date should be at top, in the byline, with the author's name under the title~!
17:42 diana_coman that's where I was looking for it!
17:43 mircea_popescu "it’s not a stop game in itself" -> "it's not in itself a game stopper"
17:44 diana_coman right
17:44 mircea_popescu english is practically speaking sorted the other way.
17:47 diana_coman fixed, thanks
~ 19 minutes ~
18:07 PeterL trinque: from http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/ "You must supply the script with a working kernel config for your target hardware." << is there a reference on how to get a config?
18:10 ben_vulpes PeterL: i started from the output of 'make menuconfig' and pruned it over time
18:10 ben_vulpes (from /usr/src/linux on a gentoo)
18:10 asciilifeform PeterL: if it's a 'common' iron, e.g. x60, or pizarro opteron, or rockchip -- then can base it off a asciilifeform
18:10 asciilifeform -config
18:11 asciilifeform otherwise yer on your own
18:12 PeterL I was thinking of trying to repurpose an old macbookpro I had lying around
18:13 asciilifeform PeterL: iirc phf had some recipe for these
18:22 asciilifeform btw, phf, dollars to doughnuts you have a loose battery connector. the whine and reset unixtime is dead giveaway
18:23 asciilifeform ( turn on from the wall with entirely removed battery, you get the whine 24/7, the inductors were sized for batt charge + run load )
~ 5 hours 4 minutes ~
23:27 mod6 does anyone know if the deedbot wallet requires manual intervention (by trinque) for the deposit portion?
23:30 mod6 !!up trinque
23:30 deedbot trinque voiced for 30 minutes.
23:30 mircea_popescu mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831576
23:30 a111 Logged on 2018-07-03 20:53 deedbot: http://trinque.org/2018/07/03/brief-hiatus-on-withdraw/ << trinque - Brief hiatus on Deedbot Wallet !!withdraw
23:30 mod6 thx mircea_popescu
23:31 trinque as it happens, I can reach the deposit lever and will shortly mod6
23:32 mod6 ah! ok, ben and I are gonna need that -- just holler when you're ready.
23:32 mircea_popescu omg maybe it's a false trinque reaching ersatz levers!
23:33 trinque couuuld be
23:33 trinque mod6: yep don't see any inbound yet. I will likely be asleep when the required confirmations roll in.
23:34 trinque but can get ya in the morning
23:34 mod6 ok, i think the deposit will be coming from ben_vulpes
23:35 trinque thx for checking before firing off.
23:36 mod6 for sure.
23:43 esthlos http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833324 << makes sense, added it
23:43 a111 Logged on 2018-07-10 21:41 diana_coman: no idea but fwiw I was playing with it on the rockchip; as far as I can tell both lobbes and esthlos used some previous versions; (btw esthlos can you maybe show the date of the post somewhere convenient? it's really weird to have to guess it/search for it)
23:47 esthlos by the way hanbot , does the mp-wp come with the footnotes and spiffy-selection built in?
23:47 esthlos (I couldn't find it, added by hand)
23:49 trinque esthlos: sounds like a good vpatch atop, eh?
23:49 esthlos http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833105 << fwiw phf, esthlos-v resolves the graph in the same manner as btcbase, and can press based at any node. of course, without checking the hashes, currently...
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23:49 a111 Logged on 2018-07-10 14:17 phf: like i said couple of days ago i'm going to forward merge that whole right side, right now the only advise is to delete the right hand side because none of the extant V's can resolve that graph, obviously a suboptimal suggestion. i'm working on a better grapher, but until then..
23:50 esthlos trinque: yes it does, I'm trying not to overcommit but could definitely add once the Keccak/V stuff is off my plate
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