| 00:56 |
shinohai |
!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/urssL/?raw=true |
| 00:56 |
jhvh1 |
shinohai: The operation succeeded. |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 01:21 |
shinohai |
Also BingoBoingo ... the Noriega article may be one of your best yet :D |
| 01:22 |
shinohai |
I hear Oliver North is inconsolable. |
| |
~ 3 hours 40 minutes ~ |
| 05:03 |
deedbot |
http://qntra.net/2017/05/lazy-wreckers-actually-dare-to-name-their-thing-etherdoge/ << Qntra - Lazy Wreckers Actually Dare To Name Their Thing "EtherDoge" |
| |
~ 27 minutes ~ |
| 05:30 |
BingoBoingo |
!~ticker --market all |
| 05:30 |
jhvh1 |
BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2209.99, vol: 14688.48510099 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2150.011, vol: 7960.10357 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2089.0, vol: 25404.67782437 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2179.71, vol: 10525.84350000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2191.0, vol: 8851.14375247 | Volume-weighted last average: 2150.10654178 |
| 05:31 |
deedbot |
http://qntra.net/2017/05/fiat-wraps-up-miserable-may-as-malaise-reaches-new-lows/ << Qntra - Fiat Wraps Up Miserable May As Malaise Reaches New Lows |
| |
~ 2 hours 47 minutes ~ |
| 08:19 |
mircea_popescu |
BingoBoingo " continue to take it's toll " |
| |
~ 43 minutes ~ |
| 09:03 |
mircea_popescu |
!!up erlehmann |
| 09:03 |
deedbot |
erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 09:12 |
mircea_popescu |
and in today's lulz : bavaria, which apparently still imagines itself a state for some reason, has decided Mahawachiralongkon Bodinthrathepphayawarangkun (that's, incredibly enough, not a german national's name) spends most of his time there, and therefore they get to tax his inheritance. |
| 09:12 |
mircea_popescu |
which is rather convenient, seeing how he inherited nothing less than thailand's ~30bn crown fortune (he's the guy in the "scandalous" party where his woman was topless around the pool o noes!11). |
| 09:13 |
mircea_popescu |
those 30 bn do include, of course, the blue diamond stolen back in 1989 from saud faisal's palace by a thai janitor, who was then caught by a lt-general of the thay royal police, except when the thais flew back to ryadh to return the loot the saudis discovered the parts not missing were fake. |
| 09:26 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: curious, how do they intend to collect this tax |
| 09:27 |
mircea_popescu |
well, they stole one of the guy's airplanes at some point. that sort of thing i imagine |
| 09:27 |
asciilifeform |
oughta have the sense to stay out of where they steal your airplanes... |
| 09:28 |
mircea_popescu |
the guy strikes me as dumber than rocks, but what do i know. |
| 09:28 |
mircea_popescu |
he's funny though, he won a her-fault divorce with some obnoxious cork of a woman through saying she sucks and she couldn't say anything because lese-majeste. |
| 09:28 |
asciilifeform |
bbbbut poor==stupid, rich -- smart!111 |
| 09:29 |
mircea_popescu |
pretty fucking epic, if you ask me, take a fat old nag to COURT, where she fucking loves to go, and dreams every day of her life, and then say THE BAD!!!1 about HER!!!!!! omfg. and she can't give all teh replies! |
| 09:29 |
mircea_popescu |
should be made into an hbo special. |
| 09:29 |
asciilifeform |
now, this - win |
| 09:30 |
mircea_popescu |
a wonder she survived |
| 09:42 |
mircea_popescu |
!!up erlehmann |
| 09:42 |
deedbot |
erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 09:43 |
erlehmann |
well, thx |
| 09:43 |
mircea_popescu |
hello. |
| 09:45 |
erlehmann |
i understand the “many small independent implementations” idea, but does the republic have a grammar for vdiff output? i am sure this is faulty somehow, as it contains neither a recognizer nor an unparser http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/vdiff |
| 09:45 |
mircea_popescu |
this is actually a solid point. |
| 09:45 |
erlehmann |
full recognition before processing, as they say |
| 09:46 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. the vdiff processing was arrived at through historical choice rather than deliberate design. therefore i'd say it's lacking it by accident. |
| 09:46 |
erlehmann |
well, i get that GNU diff does not actually verify that there is a timestamp |
| 09:47 |
erlehmann |
which is the only thing that makes vdiff possible |
| 09:47 |
erlehmann |
sane software would have rejected everything not conforming to the grammar |
| 09:47 |
mircea_popescu |
myeah. |
| 09:47 |
erlehmann |
are you aware of the seven towers of babel? |
| 09:47 |
erlehmann |
turrets, not towers. sorry |
| 09:48 |
erlehmann |
http://langsec.org/papers/langsec-cwes-secdev2016.pdf |
| 09:48 |
mircea_popescu |
hadn't read that, no. |
| 09:48 |
erlehmann |
> The Seven Turrets of Babel: A Taxonomy of LangSec Errors and How to Expunge Them, Falcon Darkstar Momot, Sergey Bratus, Sven M. Hallberg, Meredith L. Patterson |
| 09:49 |
erlehmann |
i told all my coworkers to read it. when i told maradydd, she was like “well, that's like the intended purpose” |
| 09:49 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu i also recommend http://langsec.org/papers/curing-the-vulnerable-parser.pdf |
| 09:49 |
mircea_popescu |
what was the intended purpose ?! |
| 09:49 |
asciilifeform |
it gets worse : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581252 |
| 09:49 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-11 18:53 asciilifeform: so i had two base64's png files in there, |
| 09:49 |
erlehmann |
the seven turrets of babel is a TL;DR for langsec. it collects antipatterns (in section III) and remedies (in section IV) |
| 09:49 |
asciilifeform |
gnudiff Must Die. |
| 09:49 |
mircea_popescu |
ah, yes. |
| 09:50 |
erlehmann |
so i can show it to people who just want to know what to do |
| 09:50 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann you seem like a nice enough fellow, why not register your pgp key with deedbot ? |
| 09:51 |
erlehmann |
i am the guy at my workplace who always rants about grammars, but i think i am the only one who actually did philosophy in university |
| 09:52 |
mircea_popescu |
in truth vdiff is an eminent domain for proper abstraction. |
| 09:52 |
erlehmann |
but it works. turns out that if you tell people in code reviews for 3 months straight that they should define a grammar and check their inputs, they start to do that. |
| 09:53 |
mircea_popescu |
heh |
| 09:53 |
erlehmann |
really, 3 to 4 months. some immediately get it, but others do it after that timeframe. |
| 09:53 |
mircea_popescu |
i suspect you ~don't~ get the "many implementations" thing after all :D |
| 09:53 |
mircea_popescu |
republic ain't gonna do it ; it's gonna tell YOU to do it |
| 09:53 |
asciilifeform |
oblig old thread re diff crackpotteries : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1596582 |
| 09:53 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-01-05 00:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'll suggest a 'p-tronic' format for diffs. N\........ specifies N retained-of-a octets (e.g., 5\abcde ) |
| 09:53 |
Framedragger |
good practice, props for persevering! (i'm the "modularise, bitch" guy at work) |
| 09:54 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu i was not aware a) registering is possible b) registering is desirable for me. so what do i get out of it and if i want to do it, how? |
| 09:54 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann well, i'll rate you so you'll be able to self-voice. and see topic, it's in there. |
| 09:55 |
erlehmann |
i see |
| 09:55 |
mircea_popescu |
can you see the chan topic in your client ? |
| 09:55 |
erlehmann |
yes, how to participate. i might have read it at some point in the past. |
| 09:55 |
mircea_popescu |
in which mp discovers that how to register with deedbot is NOT actually linked in the topic. |
| 09:55 |
mircea_popescu |
i need moar grammar brb. |
| 09:56 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu i think i do understand the many implementations thing. data that flowing over abstraction boundaries has the potential to trigger a holographic fracture (i believe that is how it is called). to prevent this, you need a parser and an unparser and both need to have the same grammar (max deterministic context-free) and check it. |
| 09:56 |
erlehmann |
simple example, ffmpeg |
| 09:57 |
erlehmann |
every idiot who just takes an uploaded file and converts it using ffmpeg is just a 4 line text file away from me filling whatever storage the idiot has on the converter system |
| 09:57 |
erlehmann |
reason: ffmpeg takes synthesizer instructions in plain text |
| 09:57 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: recall pkzip-bombs on bbsen ? |
| 09:57 |
erlehmann |
no one expects 999gigabytes.mp3 to be a text file instructing ffmpeg to generate silence with a really high sample rate (around 1GB per second) |
| 09:58 |
asciilifeform |
on the contrary, any literate fella using a decompressor , expects |
| 09:59 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform actually no, but i think i know what you mean. zip bombs only work with programs that do not do full recognition before processing. |
| 10:00 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform the problem is the different assumption people have about components. the programmer feeding input to ffmpeg expects audio files to be input. a recognizer would solve that. |
| 10:00 |
erlehmann |
multiple implementations show multiple assumptions (i.e. multiple grammars) |
| 10:00 |
erlehmann |
so it is like testing a lot with malicious compliant testers |
| 10:00 |
asciilifeform |
i suspect that erlehmann will like 'p' ( not yet released proggy. ) where you give it a cycle count before it runs, and it gets to step ~that~ many steps, and produces no more than B bytes of output per step... |
| 10:01 |
erlehmann |
maybe. ethereum has a gas price, yet it is still turing complete, still reentrant, still vulnerable. |
| 10:01 |
asciilifeform |
because monkeys |
| 10:02 |
erlehmann |
monkeys love turing completeness |
| 10:02 |
asciilifeform |
finite tapes technically ain't turingcomplete |
| 10:03 |
asciilifeform |
well, finitetape+fixedsteps |
| 10:03 |
erlehmann |
it is about reasoning |
| 10:03 |
erlehmann |
putting the mechanism in your head |
| 10:03 |
asciilifeform |
you get a halting guarantee, what. |
| 10:03 |
mircea_popescu |
http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#footnote_2_68942 << there we go, updated. |
| 10:03 |
erlehmann |
the universe provides a halting guarantee: proton decay |
| 10:03 |
mircea_popescu |
any other glaring errors anyone ? |
| 10:03 |
asciilifeform |
( in 'p', nor ethertardium ) |
| 10:03 |
asciilifeform |
*not |
| 10:04 |
erlehmann |
i have a talent to find errors by not comprehending stuff. talk context-free or regular to me! |
| 10:04 |
mircea_popescu |
lol. yeah, i think i might've seen that before. |
| 10:04 |
erlehmann |
i think it is a good rule to talk to autists |
| 10:05 |
erlehmann |
like that |
| 10:05 |
mircea_popescu |
well, it'd better be, not so much else available to talk to these days, is there. |
| 10:05 |
erlehmann |
i also highly prefer it if people talk to me like that. the worst people are those that are like “please send me this and that” – “send me an email with the full details of what and where i should send it please” – “can't you just infer it from the last time you mailed me something?” |
| 10:06 |
erlehmann |
i can, but it puts the burden on me. possible misunderstandings. |
| 10:06 |
mircea_popescu |
hey, i beat the slavegirls if they fail to infer ; and also if they infer incorrectly. |
| 10:06 |
mircea_popescu |
sucks being a slavegirl. |
| 10:07 |
erlehmann |
at one langsec and tea gathering i suspected that every joke contains a misunderstanding on some level |
| 10:07 |
erlehmann |
therefore: no deterministic context-free jokes |
| 10:07 |
mircea_popescu |
actually in my youth i deemed as the highest achievement in literature a situation where multiple parties participated in a conversation that admits an interpretation for each. |
| 10:08 |
erlehmann |
three moldbugs walk into a bar … |
| 10:08 |
mircea_popescu |
lol. there's that joke with the christian and jew debating the truth of the bible also. |
| 10:09 |
erlehmann |
so who of you has opinions about build systems? |
| 10:09 |
erlehmann |
i guess some of you have |
| 10:10 |
erlehmann |
i am of the opinion that all build systems except my own redo implementation are shit. reason: non-existence dependencies. if you search for header files at locations A, B, C, find it at C, then C is a dependency. but if non-existing A or B start to exist, the target must rebuilt. |
| 10:11 |
mircea_popescu |
ha! |
| 10:11 |
erlehmann |
you can easily infer what those files are using strace or similar methods |
| 10:11 |
erlehmann |
but apparently, i am the only one who does. DJB thought of it, he has notes on it. |
| 10:11 |
erlehmann |
as always, make is shit and can not handle this |
| 10:12 |
erlehmann |
experimenting with a medium-size C++ project (liberation circuit) i found that there can be as much non-existence dependencies as “normal” dependencies |
| 10:12 |
erlehmann |
meaning almost all software is rotten to the core based on this alone |
| 10:12 |
asciilifeform |
make cannot handle much of anything; i use it as a multi-knobbed bash, essentially |
| 10:12 |
mircea_popescu |
i suspect the idea is that systems which require something like make are broken anyway. |
| |
↖ |
| 10:12 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
| 10:12 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform if you like builds and shell script, like redo http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/redo-sh.html |
| 10:12 |
asciilifeform |
i like ada's gprbuild |
| 10:12 |
erlehmann |
depends only on coreutils or busybox |
| 10:12 |
erlehmann |
no compiler etc. pp. |
| 10:13 |
asciilifeform |
!!up erlehmann |
| 10:13 |
deedbot |
erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 10:13 |
erlehmann |
thx |
| 10:13 |
erlehmann |
i leave the explanation of redo to DJB: http://cr.yp.to/redo.html |
| 10:14 |
mircea_popescu |
speaking of, what should the flymake for lisp be called ? drool ? dribble ? |
| 10:14 |
erlehmann |
apparently he implemented at least parts of it. some of his elliptic curve stuff has dofiles. |
| 10:14 |
erlehmann |
but he never released it |
| 10:14 |
phf |
mircea_popescu: dribble's already taken http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_dribbl.htm |
| 10:14 |
erlehmann |
i asked him at two conferences and both times he was like “i have to answer lots of questions about crypto, ask later pls” |
| 10:14 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: slime |
| 10:14 |
asciilifeform |
already exists |
| 10:14 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu maggot. a maggot is what makes a fly. |
| 10:14 |
erlehmann |
what do i win |
| 10:15 |
mircea_popescu |
a fly ? |
| 10:15 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform hm ok ok |
| 10:15 |
erlehmann |
a maggot is a larva of a fly |
| 10:15 |
mircea_popescu |
yes yes erlehmann. you win -- a fly! |
| 10:15 |
erlehmann |
also ugly names discourage superficial hipsters, hopefully |
| 10:16 |
shinohai |
"We were playing with maggots before it was cool!" |
| 10:17 |
erlehmann |
concerning non-existence dependencies: https://github.com/linleyh/liberation-circuit/commit/8b7d1b252406ce87fd94aec04d2a1959a593a61e |
| 10:17 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann "ugly", no. but sexually masculine (ie, suggestive of forceful copulation) names are very well documented to. |
| 10:17 |
asciilifeform |
in recent sads, 'Our batch prime-generation algorithm suggests that, to help reduce energy consumption and protect the environment, all users of RSA—including users of traditional pre-quantum RSA—should delegate their key-generation computa- tions to NIST or another trusted third party. This speed improvement would also allow users to generate new RSA keys and erase old RSA keys more frequently, limiting the damage of key theft.' |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
| 10:17 |
asciilifeform |
-- djb!! |
| 10:17 |
asciilifeform |
rip, djb |
| 10:17 |
phf |
fwiw, input parsing should probably be solved through compartmentalization. don't run mpg123 on your gnupg machine. in any case djb likewise said all that needs to be said about "secure languages" in his "Some thoughts on security after ten years of qmail 1.0" |
| 10:17 |
mircea_popescu |
ahaahaha WHAT |
| 10:18 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: source : https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/351.pdf |
| 10:18 |
erlehmann |
phf who believes people who cannot roll their own grammar can roll their own compar-virtual-boundary-thingy? |
| 10:18 |
mircea_popescu |
what the fuck is wrong with the usgtards ?! |
| 10:18 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: i'ma guess he's been shot. |
| 10:19 |
phf |
erlehmann: people who can't roll their own grammar can still buy two separate machines though |
| 10:19 |
mircea_popescu |
it seems the parsimonious explanation. |
| 10:19 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform altough after that utterly shameful episode with the transvestite whore living at his house... |
| 10:19 |
erlehmann |
phf i believe you misunderstand the problem |
| 10:20 |
phf |
erlehmann: go on |
| 10:20 |
erlehmann |
LANGSEC is about programmers able to reason about protocols and state transitions |
| 10:20 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann can you explain this liberation circuit thing to me ? |
| 10:21 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu a real time strategy game by linley henzell (who created overgod and garden of colored lights) where every unit is programmed in a language not entirely unlike C. |
| 10:21 |
erlehmann |
http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/notes/liberation-circuit.html |
| 10:22 |
mircea_popescu |
so far this seems ~same as what led eulora to having open bots. they are programed in... literal c. |
| 10:22 |
mircea_popescu |
is there more to it ? |
| 10:22 |
erlehmann |
there is a graphical unit designer that sets up the structs right |
| 10:22 |
erlehmann |
which makes it playable. previous attempt “invincible countermeasure” did not have a graphical designer. |
| 10:23 |
mircea_popescu |
do you know this guy ? |
| 10:23 |
erlehmann |
well, gameplay-wise: units are limited by number of ticks. want to do trigonometry? prepare to sacrifice ticks |
| 10:23 |
phf |
erlehmann: sure, but the question is, are you designing your protocol from scratch or you're saying something about an existing protocol. and if you're designing it from scratch then there are existing long established solutions that long predate langsec (unless of course they are just an education organization). but if you're saying something about existing solutions, and you mentioned ffmpeg etc., then it's your classical security specialist "y'all i |
| 10:23 |
phf |
diots" position. what you going to audit ffmpeg? i'm saying that the correct solution is not to run media decoder on a mission critical machine |
| 10:24 |
mircea_popescu |
phf i suspect he's young ; in any case excitable. give the man a moment. |
| 10:24 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: that djb piece is epic multilayer shitsandwich : he advocates 1TB+ keys; consisting of MANY (i.e. smaller!) primes ; and because 'quantum apocalypse' |
| 10:24 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu only by mail. apparently he writes games on windows with code::blocks. i wrote a dofile and contributed some features. |
| 10:25 |
erlehmann |
phf i have worked on existing protocol. the grammar codifies the assumptions that you as a programmer make. take an ENUM in the input, for example. grammar should only contain values you know you can process right. |
| 10:25 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann ah ok. |
| 10:26 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform mindboggling. |
| 10:27 |
mircea_popescu |
life these days is muchly reminiscent of 1980s, reading comuniques from disidents behind the iron curtain, trying to judge how genuine, what happened, etc. |
| 10:27 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: oh and coauthored with nadia heninger |
| 10:27 |
asciilifeform |
! |
| 10:27 |
erlehmann |
phf someone gives you a “mp3” file with ogg page structure? abort immediately. |
| 10:27 |
erlehmann |
phf basically, “be liberal in what you accept” is bullshit. be definite about what you accept. |
| 10:27 |
mircea_popescu |
at least the kgb 2.0 is as bumblingly self-absorbed as the original. |
| 10:28 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu if you like RTS without multiplayer, i suggest to try out liberation circuit. the math seems to be fixed-point only, so real-time multiplayer should be possible if you can wade through the abysmal codebase. |
| 10:28 |
erlehmann |
it is written by a single self-taught game programmer who apparently uses indentation randomly |
| 10:29 |
erlehmann |
play-by-email against autonomous bots from someone else should be deterministic because of fixed-point math |
| 10:29 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: i was quite certain that djb is gone for good when 0 replies to multiple attempted reach-outs re phuctor. |
| 10:29 |
erlehmann |
at least that is what he claims, i never tried |
| 10:29 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann i own a publisher ; not particularly looking for a game, but vaguely interested in competent/efficient dev people for eulora client improvment. |
| 10:29 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform djb never replied to my emails as well. i asked fefe about it and he was like “that guy has tenure, he does not care, people had to pester him for years to make his stuff public domain” |
| 10:30 |
mircea_popescu |
oh, you know the fefe.de guy ? |
| 10:31 |
erlehmann |
we sometimes bump into each other at conferences. also i made the yellow press (BILD) stylesheet for his blog some time ago. |
| 10:31 |
erlehmann |
and he does answer emails |
| 10:31 |
mircea_popescu |
he should definitely be here. |
| 10:32 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu i never heard of eulora. earn BTC for playing games? |
| 10:33 |
mircea_popescu |
a possible side-effect. |
| 10:33 |
mircea_popescu |
can as well lose btc for playing games. |
| 10:33 |
mircea_popescu |
but the point is principally "try and make ANY sense of the server mechanics" |
| 10:33 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu i believe linley is creative and knows his theory. but no one ever asked him to clean up his code. |
| 10:34 |
erlehmann |
but why not just email him? he answers nicely. |
| 10:34 |
erlehmann |
and has a functioning bullshit detector. evidence: someone proposed a docker container to run the game “more easily”. linley politely declined. |
| 10:35 |
mircea_popescu |
well up until now because i never heard of him ; from now on tba. |
| 10:35 |
phf |
erlehmann: that is true, but doesn't take into account complete attack surface. i agree that "write a proper parser" should be the first step, but that's also a baseline. problem is that most of these protocols are either non-regular, have types that depend on state (e.g. a fixnum whose range changes based on a flag), or are outright turing complete |
| 10:36 |
asciilifeform |
the actual problem is that they do not fit-in-head. |
| 10:36 |
mircea_popescu |
there's also the suspicion that the only reason this "appears to work" as a securitizing approach has to do strictyly with it not being in general use. |
| 10:36 |
mircea_popescu |
as per an ancient thread re dynamic vs static models. |
| 10:36 |
erlehmann |
phf yeah, the results are not palatable to people. “what i can not do ‘<script>document.write('<script>')</script>’ anymore?” |
| 10:36 |
erlehmann |
what asciilifeform says |
| 10:36 |
asciilifeform |
and erlehmann i read the paper you linked. |
| 10:36 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform extrapolate your onions? |
| 10:37 |
asciilifeform |
whole field is ill-conceived : plugs wrong end of the funnel. |
| 10:37 |
erlehmann |
lel |
| 10:37 |
erlehmann |
what wrong end? it actually plugs both ends. the parser and the unparser. |
| 10:37 |
Framedragger |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663689 << i believe you misquoted out of context. the purpose of that was to (as you can see if you read till end of para), "The challenge here is to show that secure multi-user RSA key generation can becarried out more efficiently than one-user-at-a-time RSA key generation" |
| 10:37 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:17 asciilifeform: in recent sads, 'Our batch prime-generation algorithm suggests that, to help reduce energy consumption and protect the environment, all users of RSA—including users of traditional pre-quantum RSA—should delegate their key-generation computa- tions to NIST or another trusted third party. This speed improvement would also allow users to generate new RSA keys and erase old RSA keys more frequently, limiting the damage of key theft.' |
| 10:37 |
Framedragger |
i don't believe they are actually suggesting that doing key gen on third party is a good idea for user. discussion was about performance, no? (granted, did not read whole paper) |
| 10:37 |
asciilifeform |
the actual curative pill is a system with no nonimmediatelyobviousliketwooplustwo code. |
| 10:38 |
phf |
well, that's why i referred to that djb paper about qmail. he stated both the problem and the solution, and his solution was essentially "compartmentalize", but when it comes to parsers specifically it's something very aggressive. like a fixed length line reader that dispatches on a single prefix character. not even a "grammar" |
| 10:38 |
asciilifeform |
Framedragger: go read and come back |
| 10:39 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: 'validating input' is idiotic - a sanely designed system simply contains no physically possible perdition state to be led into. |
| |
↖ |
| 10:40 |
asciilifeform |
example : full adder. |
| 10:40 |
Framedragger |
asciilifeform: alright, will do later. given that you quoted from the concluding section however, makes me doubt whether my opinion will change. but will do. |
| 10:40 |
asciilifeform |
what will you do to it, to take it to an invalid state ? connect to 220 volts ? |
| 10:41 |
asciilifeform |
because so long as you stay in the voltage and hold time constraints ( and you won't be violating these over internet ) it will give correct answer, now and 1000 yrs from now, to all physically possible inputs. |
| 10:41 |
phf |
validating input is the security community mantra that i remember since i joined it in 99 or so |
| |
↖ |
| 10:41 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform by that standard, everything is insane (i might even agree). LANGSEC is not planet-wide asepsis, it is washing hands before walking to the operating table. |
| |
↖ |
| 10:41 |
asciilifeform |
and no 'validation of grammar' in sight !! |
| 10:41 |
phf |
these days it has additional twist of haskelization and provable grammars and such |
| 10:41 |
asciilifeform |
phf: it's poison. |
| 10:42 |
asciilifeform |
rotthebody, rothebrain, cucaracha! (tm)(r) |
| 10:43 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform a spy opens an envelope and finds a patchset. what next? |
| 10:43 |
asciilifeform |
!!up erlehmann |
| 10:43 |
deedbot |
erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 10:43 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: he eats it, washes down with cyanide ? |
| 10:44 |
erlehmann |
my answer would be: spy whips out recognizer, nukes everything from orbit if language of patchset does not match language that is expected. |
| |
↖ |
| 10:44 |
mircea_popescu |
Framedragger the whole notion of "rsa keygen efficiency" is a little bit in the vein of "cheapest wedding dress". |
| 10:44 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: describe why you think that recognizing ought to be separate operation from actually processing |
| 10:45 |
asciilifeform |
the implication is that it is acceptable for processor to be vulnerable |
| 10:45 |
asciilifeform |
which is nuttery. |
| 10:45 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform mixing validation and processing code makes it harder to reason about possible code paths. after the recognizer you can be sure that the rest of the system does not have to handle anything. |
| 10:46 |
asciilifeform |
this is dumbfoundigly stupid. |
| 10:46 |
erlehmann |
anti-pattern “shotgun parser”. draw the processing diagram on to the wall. shoot at it with a shotgun. everywhere the bullets hit, validate stuff. |
| 10:46 |
erlehmann |
this is how most people do it, basically |
| 10:46 |
Framedragger |
mircea_popescu: yeah, after writing that i recalled gossipd design and intentions (need to generate a lot of keys, and if it takes a month - so fucking be it)... |
| 10:46 |
asciilifeform |
lose the weak 'rest of the system'. |
| 10:46 |
erlehmann |
ad-hoc validation creates a lot of exit conditions that interact with each other |
| 10:46 |
erlehmann |
system does not fit in head as easily |
| 10:47 |
asciilifeform |
where in 1000 ln of 20char lines will you have this nonsense fit ? |
| 10:47 |
erlehmann |
i do not understand the question, care to elaborate? |
| 10:47 |
asciilifeform |
these 'a lot of exit condition' |
| 10:47 |
asciilifeform |
you presume puddle of liquishit complexity, erlehmann |
| 10:47 |
asciilifeform |
a la openssl |
| 10:47 |
erlehmann |
indeed |
| 10:48 |
asciilifeform |
but the future contains no such |
| 10:48 |
asciilifeform |
this is the abbatoir, erlehmann , where we butcher it. |
| 10:49 |
asciilifeform |
not to help it to live, with 'protections' and 'mitigations' |
| 10:49 |
asciilifeform |
fuck mitigations. |
| 10:50 |
erlehmann |
urbit at one point broke down crying if you fed it U+1F46C GAY MEN 👬 |
| 10:50 |
asciilifeform |
lemme show you an example, erlehmann |
| 10:50 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform so what does this `p` do you wrote earlier of? |
| 10:50 |
asciilifeform |
https://archive.is/Bmfny << (most of) a sane replacement for openssl |
| 10:51 |
asciilifeform |
'p' is simply a calculator, a la 'bc', on top of it |
| 10:51 |
erlehmann |
i use dc |
| 10:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581867 << illlustrations |
| 10:51 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-11 23:00 asciilifeform: i was not going to expand on the 'p' thread until the proggy is done, but this is probably a good time to say 1 more |
| 10:51 |
erlehmann |
but i'll wait |
| 10:52 |
erlehmann |
reminds me of my adventures with libglitch (most useless shit i wrote and probably most popular) |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| 10:53 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: no c; no dynamic memory allocation; no unchecked buffer accesses at all, anywhere; no libraries; no dynamic linking; no 'idiomatic' idiocy; and most importantly, no more than few thou. line. |
| 10:53 |
asciilifeform |
incl comments. |
| 10:53 |
erlehmann |
i chose postfix notation and a wraparound ringbuffer as a “stack” because postfix can always be evaluated |
| 10:53 |
phf |
erlehmann: i think what we're saying is that validation for the sake of validation is an incomplete solution for various reasons. you come from a position where you need to convince people that parsing is important, we're saying that ~we know~ and ~we do it~, but we also think that it's not the whole solution. |
| 10:54 |
erlehmann |
it was for live coding |
| 10:54 |
erlehmann |
idiots reimplemented it themselves using infix notation |
| 10:54 |
erlehmann |
of course infix allows you to have an incomplete expression – like “(a + b” without a closing paren |
| 10:54 |
erlehmann |
so the synthesizer would stop if you did not type fast enough |
| 10:55 |
erlehmann |
phf so about that v grammar. |
| 10:55 |
erlehmann |
(“we do it”) |
| 10:56 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform i see what you mean. i can not claim to understand everything, but it looks saner than C. |
| 10:56 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: gnudiff, gpg, etc are liquishit, and currently operator is expected to review all inputs and outputs. by. hand. |
| 10:56 |
asciilifeform |
if he wants to live. |
| 10:57 |
asciilifeform |
this is a practice that is here to stay. |
| 10:59 |
erlehmann |
you know part of why i came here is my friends have become mad |
| 10:59 |
erlehmann |
they no longer write roguelikes where you can shit yourself to death |
| 10:59 |
erlehmann |
more like: <buckket> ok habe nun MSI GTX 1070 für mein mining rig gekoppt |
| 11:00 |
phf |
erlehmann: well, i said "parsing" i didn't say grammar. there are different ways to write a parser. btcbase uses a readtable dispatch based parser to construct an in memory vpatch structure, i just checked, in about 90 lines of lisp. presumably if somebody wanted to write a parser using yacc, they'd have to write a lalr grammar for a vpatch |
| 11:01 |
erlehmann |
i believe at least some crypto currency marketing triggers similar magpie instincts as earlier scams |
| 11:01 |
asciilifeform |
all scams work ~same |
| 11:01 |
erlehmann |
but i have not yet found out why people are unaffected. and why i do not feel the same as they do. |
| 11:02 |
asciilifeform |
!#s chumpatronic |
| 11:02 |
a111 |
74 results for "chumpatronic", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=chumpatronic |
| 11:02 |
* |
Framedragger currently trying to fight ceo who wants to do an ICO, can relate somewhat |
| 11:03 |
Framedragger |
(this may just be a fatal red flag, tho.) |
| 11:05 |
Framedragger |
(related, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1656958) |
| 11:05 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-16 11:18 Framedragger: via funkenstein_ https://ponzico.win/ponzico.pdf / https://ponzico.win/ |
| 11:05 |
erlehmann |
the former boss of my boss, when asked about ethereum, was like “my investment strategy is: i hope you get rich with ether and then give me some of it” |
| 11:05 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform where does the tron(ic) suffix come from? versionatron? chumpatronic? |
| 11:05 |
mircea_popescu |
sounds very "we in europe have 60% taxes and think women should talk at the table." |
| 11:06 |
mircea_popescu |
"in the manner of, to the effect of, in the style of, like" |
| 11:06 |
erlehmann |
i think he meant it more like “haha good luck you imbecile” |
| 11:06 |
mircea_popescu |
"pertaining to, of, etcetera" |
| 11:06 |
erlehmann |
i see |
| 11:08 |
phf |
it's a calque from russian |
| 11:09 |
erlehmann |
interesting |
| 11:10 |
erlehmann |
in german the calque word for a german calque is “zangendeutsch” |
| 11:10 |
erlehmann |
“forced/forcing german” → “zwangs deutsch” → losing the “w”, sounding like the word for forceps → “zangen deutsch” |
| 11:11 |
mircea_popescu |
zangen is forceps ? |
| 11:12 |
erlehmann |
i think? |
| 11:12 |
erlehmann |
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zange |
| 11:12 |
erlehmann |
pliers? |
| 11:12 |
mircea_popescu |
aha cool. |
| 11:12 |
Framedragger |
erlehmann: just idly curious, why did you not continue studying at TUM? i'm only curious because i considered that once, too, and "heard it was good" (well they also seemed to be offering solid-looking courses when i visited them in ~2013). just in case answer pertains to objective details |
| 11:12 |
erlehmann |
more pliers |
| 11:13 |
asciilifeform |
!!up erlehmann |
| 11:13 |
deedbot |
erlehmann voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 11:13 |
phf |
chumpatron is from "lohotron" where loh is a chump, it's a word play on "lototron" which is a lottery machine |
| 11:14 |
mircea_popescu |
ahh, recall the grand old days when this terminology was getting established ? |
| 11:14 |
erlehmann |
Framedragger 1. prof demoed some program he wrote (?) in linear algebra course 2. i asked about source code. 3. answer was like “you do not get source code, you would not understand anyway” 4. no other student thought it ridiculous for a teacher to not give source. 5. i found out implementation was really simple. |
| 11:15 |
mircea_popescu |
wait, so you... quit ? |
| 11:16 |
erlehmann |
i moved to berlin to study philosphy at humboldt university. different climate there. especially regarding bad teaching. |
| 11:16 |
mircea_popescu |
good for you. |
| 11:17 |
* |
Framedragger long ago got a "you're not yet ready to read kant, read this about kant", which in retrospect may have been a misjudgement (you can kinda sorta just read Kant, esp. if you're read hume), but i just went along with it. worked in the end. maybe not comparable situation, but anyway |
| 11:17 |
erlehmann |
the only person who would not give complete corresponding source and supplementary materials for stuff was a neuroscientist i think. something about having done lots of work to collect the data and analyze it. |
| 11:17 |
mircea_popescu |
Framedragger definitely not comparable situation. |
| 11:17 |
erlehmann |
Framedragger in short. climate at TUM is like “you are becoming engineers. do not ask questions. money goes to research.” |
| 11:17 |
Framedragger |
source code.. wonder if there's a good reason possible if intention was to give source eventually. prolly not... |
| 11:17 |
Framedragger |
erlehmann: ah, shit, well ok |
| 11:17 |
Framedragger |
sad to hear |
| 11:18 |
mircea_popescu |
natural language is useless for any serious rational purpose without endless washing and starching. math does not suffer from the same problem. |
| 11:18 |
erlehmann |
i quit studying philosophy at HU to earn money. |
| 11:18 |
erlehmann |
turns out i am a far better programmer than philosopher btw |
| 11:18 |
mircea_popescu |
most oracles also discover they're much better cooks than oracles. |
| 11:19 |
erlehmann |
Framedragger the author of http://unteralterbach.net did not want to give source immediately to not enable shitlords to spoil the game's easter eggs. |
| 11:19 |
phf |
Framedragger: it's probably shit code that professor was planning on fixing "eventually". i've managed to acquire a number of these "secret" sources while at umd and most of them were horrendous. |
| 11:19 |
erlehmann |
i consider that legitimate |
| 11:19 |
Framedragger |
(not sure what "good philosopher" would even mean these days, most of "modern philosophy" is same ol' "research journal" printolade anyway) |
| 11:19 |
Framedragger |
lol, ok :D gotcha. |
| 11:20 |
erlehmann |
Framedragger if you know german, i suggest to play unteralterbach. i also suggest to not visit commonwealth countries and others with weird sex laws (comic sex = real punishments) when having that. |
| 11:20 |
* |
Framedragger has a folder of shit uni java too, somewhere |
| 11:21 |
erlehmann |
well, unless you are easily offended, that is |
| 11:21 |
Framedragger |
erlehmann: am currently in UK which given its government's position on "weird sex" probably has outlawed said website through multiple acts of parliament |
| 11:22 |
Framedragger |
signed by her majesty the queen |
| 11:22 |
erlehmann |
Framedragger probably. won't visit UK anytime soon. |
| 11:23 |
Framedragger |
thanks for the pointer, will actually check. i know a bit of german but too little. may make it even more fun, tho |
| 11:23 |
erlehmann |
game is also there in english |
| 11:23 |
phf |
i wonder if this creates significant cognitive dissonance in these people. it took me a while to learn how to scale elegance (and how incredibly costly it is, hence gems like tex.web ARE gems), but here you have a prof, drinking own koolaid of whatever best practices, attempts to write a non-trivial project and ends up with unmanageable complexity |
| 11:24 |
mircea_popescu |
phf and then you ask him why he continues to pretend like he has something to say in plenum and he breaks down and cries before 200 students. |
| 11:25 |
erlehmann |
phf good profs listen and learn even from students if appropriate. |
| 11:25 |
mircea_popescu |
of all the gone traditions of the academic citadel, the one mp most regrets is mercilessness. |
| 11:26 |
erlehmann |
i once had a case of a philosophy lecturer claiming computers cannot work on meaning, only syntax. i answered with an explanation of undefined behaviour in C compilers. |
| 11:26 |
mircea_popescu |
and he bought that ?! |
| 11:26 |
erlehmann |
i think part of the room was sufficiently disoriented by the fact that GCC drops loops without side effects |
| 11:27 |
erlehmann |
(… because they have no meaning) |
| 11:27 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao. worst argument ever. |
| 11:27 |
phf |
(heavy technobabble) prof: yeah yeah ugh i can see that, moving on |
| 11:27 |
erlehmann |
i think i actually got through by demonstrating n3 |
| 11:27 |
mircea_popescu |
"ex nihilo nihil fit ergo please believe computers are people" |
| 11:28 |
erlehmann |
i have no idea how someone can believe elementary logic is something magic |
| 11:28 |
erlehmann |
that only the human brain can do |
| 11:28 |
erlehmann |
while teaching formal methods to work with it |
| 11:28 |
mircea_popescu |
erlehmann elementary logic does not work on meaning ; only syntax. |
| 11:29 |
erlehmann |
mircea_popescu certainly, i was referring to a different person that claimed a computer can not work with “a → b … and also, a is false” or something like that |
| 11:30 |
erlehmann |
i am ever so slightly sorry for not telling in understandable ways |
| 11:31 |
erlehmann |
but back to the GCC example, i think someone said “a computer can not recognize meaninglessness” or similar |
| 11:32 |
Framedragger |
isn't it fun that even C macros are not context-free, huehuehue. such language! |
| 11:32 |
erlehmann |
reducing something to NOP seemed to imply something different |
| 11:32 |
erlehmann |
Framedragger to the moon with it! |
| 11:32 |
erlehmann |
i bet you read that at the orange wobsite |
| 11:32 |
Framedragger |
it *reminded* me of that fact, i knew it was crazy turing complete madness before tho :D |
| 11:33 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform any timetable on p? |
| 11:34 |
phf |
hehe |
| 11:34 |
asciilifeform |
erlehmann: finished, aside from a few of the higher arithm ops |
| 11:34 |
asciilifeform |
( and docs ) |
| 11:34 |
asciilifeform |
why, can't wait ? |
| 11:34 |
phf |
erlehmann: do you still use "neo 2 keyboard layout"? |
| 11:34 |
erlehmann |
asciilifeform curious. |
| 11:36 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663763 << this i'm affraid is wishful thinking. consider the simple case of the 110/220 volt switch on most desktop power supplies. it... does contain such a state, as part and parcel of why it even exists in the first place. |
| |
↖ |
| 11:36 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:39 asciilifeform: erlehmann: 'validating input' is idiotic - a sanely designed system simply contains no physically possible perdition state to be led into. |
| 11:36 |
mircea_popescu |
this i suspect is generally the case, if an item doesn't contain deadly possible states it is more properly a toy than a tool. |
| |
↖ |
| 11:37 |
mircea_popescu |
in any case, the problem of the 110/220 swich is not, to this day, solved. |
| |
↖ |
| 11:41 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663768 << let me tell you what it does, because i recently ran a browser games check. a) won't allow email from domains with >3 char tlds. because VALIDATING INPUT, yes. b) won't allow your password. it's too long (yes), it has special characters (o ya), it whatever on a stick. |
| 11:41 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:41 phf: validating input is the security community mantra that i remember since i joined it in 99 or so |
| 11:43 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663769 << yet procreation works whether you wash your dick or don't. scandalously, it seems it actually works better if you don't. |
| |
↖ |
| 11:43 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:41 erlehmann: asciilifeform by that standard, everything is insane (i might even agree). LANGSEC is not planet-wide asepsis, it is washing hands before walking to the operating table. |
| 11:44 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663778 << that is a badly designed spy. |
| 11:44 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:44 erlehmann: my answer would be: spy whips out recognizer, nukes everything from orbit if language of patchset does not match language that is expected. |
| 11:46 |
mircea_popescu |
i spent a while having to subdue my fridge which had become embroiled along with my washing machine and its allies in an air-and-sea war over some misunderstandings, and i decided no more of that! no fridge, no washing machine, no spy etc needs its own armored divisions! |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 12:03 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663919 << screamingly bad example -- all current ps lack the switch, and in fact designed to make use of 90-300volt, wherever in the world |
| 12:03 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 15:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663763 << this i'm affraid is wishful thinking. consider the simple case of the 110/220 volt switch on most desktop power supplies. it... does contain such a state, as part and parcel of why it even exists in the first place. |
| 12:03 |
asciilifeform |
and not by 'autodetecting' (validating!111) either, but by actual design |
| 12:03 |
asciilifeform |
( transformerless conversion ) |
| 12:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663922 << entirely solved , lol! i got rid of all 'switch'-having ps years! ago |
| 12:04 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 15:37 mircea_popescu: in any case, the problem of the 110/220 swich is not, to this day, solved. |
| 12:04 |
asciilifeform |
not 1 left in any of asciilifeform's systems. |
| 12:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663925 << the direct equiv of unwashedcock is the winblowz box plugged directly into public net |
| 12:06 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 15:43 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663769 << yet procreation works whether you wash your dick or don't. scandalously, it seems it actually works better if you don't. |
| 12:06 |
asciilifeform |
where yes 'procreation worx great!' |
| 12:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663921 << overall it is not a useful line of thought re physical objects, all of which have 'potential deadly state', say of being launched through my head in a tornado. it is only interesting re information-processors. |
| 12:08 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 15:36 mircea_popescu: this i suspect is generally the case, if an item doesn't contain deadly possible states it is more properly a toy than a tool. |
| 12:08 |
asciilifeform |
which in fact can be built to validly transition from every possible state to another valid possible state ( see the adder example earlier. ) |
| 12:09 |
asciilifeform |
the generalization of the principle is ffa |
| 12:09 |
asciilifeform |
where the only 'world ends' operation is div0 |
| 12:09 |
asciilifeform |
( and leads to terminate-with-epitaph, a perfectly valid state, rather than exploitability ) |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
now in all fairness, the coveted 'information processer' is not found in nature, only the lowly 'physical object' is found there; and to make the former out of the latter is not at all easy, |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
e.g., |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
!#s metastability |
| 12:14 |
a111 |
6 results for "metastability", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=metastability |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
^ very real problem when i was building FUCKGOATS |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
and wanted the thing to be repeatable ('yoke test' per the docs) |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
see old thread re subj |
| 12:16 |
asciilifeform |
(problem was , analogue rng's waveform, while meeting the signal voltage constraint, and even the rise/fall time constraints, sometimes does not meet the hold time constraint! and results in metastable state in digital chip it is connected to |
| 12:16 |
asciilifeform |
the practical consequence of this is that when it was connected to TWO of'em, they could easily end up with different impressions of what they saw, breaking 'yokeability') |
| 12:16 |
asciilifeform |
how i solved this -- is exercise for the reader ( i did solve it ) |
| 12:16 |
asciilifeform |
read the fuckingsource folx!111 |
| 12:17 |
asciilifeform |
now if meteor falls on it, or nuke is set off nearby, all bets still off. physical object. |
| 12:17 |
asciilifeform |
( everything and everybody one day reverts to 'physical object' behaviour... ) |
| 12:22 |
asciilifeform |
funny bit re metastability -- i did not realize that it was the one and only possible culprit until i confirmed that the logic analyzer in fact saw, on multiple occasions (at least 1 ppm) a variant logic state from what the rest of the circuit saw. |
| 12:28 |
asciilifeform |
and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
because the alternative is 'oh, shuddup that winblowz is porous, because godel, nyahahaha' |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
it is solely an excuse for pissing the bed, and never anything else. |
| 12:35 |
phf |
halting problem!1 |
| 12:36 |
asciilifeform |
== |
| 12:37 |
asciilifeform |
i actually met a 'genius' who : asciilifeform: 'winblowz crashes daily' ; d00d : 'hey, halting problem unsolvable!' |
| 12:38 |
asciilifeform |
дай дураку топор (tm)(r) |
| 12:44 |
asciilifeform |
!~later tell erlehmann http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663810 << this is neat, and yes, exactly same idea. |
| 12:44 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:52 erlehmann: reminds me of my adventures with libglitch (most useless shit i wrote and probably most popular) |
| 12:44 |
asciilifeform |
umm |
| 12:44 |
asciilifeform |
what happened here |
| 12:44 |
asciilifeform |
.. shinohai ? |
| 12:45 |
asciilifeform |
!#seen jhvh1 |
| 12:45 |
a111 |
2017-05-31 <jhvh1> BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2209.99, vol: 14688.48510099 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2150.011, vol: 7960.10357 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2089.0, vol: 25404.67782437 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2179.71, vol: 10525.84350000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2191.0, vol: 8851.14375247 | Volume-weighted last average: 2150.10654178 |
| 12:46 |
asciilifeform |
lol, useless |
| 12:46 |
asciilifeform |
(for bot) |
| 12:47 |
phf |
would be handy if a111 tracked parts.. |
| 12:47 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 13:04 |
shinohai |
server reset last night asciilifeform ... should be back up momentarily. |
| |
~ 34 minutes ~ |
| 13:39 |
asciilifeform |
!~later tell erlehmann http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663810 << this is neat, and yes, exactly same idea. |
| 13:39 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 14:52 erlehmann: reminds me of my adventures with libglitch (most useless shit i wrote and probably most popular) |
| 13:39 |
jhvh1 |
asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. |
| 13:39 |
asciilifeform |
ty shinohai . |
| 13:41 |
asciilifeform |
in continued lulz, |
| 13:41 |
asciilifeform |
'This work was supported by the Commission of the European Communities through the Horizon 2020 program under project number 645622 (PQCRYPTO) and project number 645421 (ECRYPT-CSA); by the Netherlands Organisation for Scientific Research (NWO) under grant 639.073.005; by the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology under grant 60NANB10D263; by the U.S. National Science Foundation under grants 1314919, 1408734, 1505799, an |
| 13:41 |
asciilifeform |
d 1513671; and by a gift from Cisco. P. Lou was supported by the Rachleff Scholars program at the University of Pennsylvania. We are grateful to Cisco for donating much of the hardware used for our experiments.' |
| 13:41 |
asciilifeform |
-- djb et al. |
| |
~ 55 minutes ~ |
| 14:37 |
asciilifeform |
'Generating large amounts of truly random data is expensive. Fortunately, truly random data can be simulated by pseudorandom data produced by a stream cipher from a much smaller key. (Even better, slight deficiencies in the randomness of the cipher key do not compromise security.) The literature contains several scalable ciphers....' -- djb et al |
| |
↖ |
| 14:37 |
asciilifeform |
(from same horror show as earlier) |
| 14:38 |
asciilifeform |
http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/oa8cj/?raw=true << whole text, for the truly dedicated entomologist. |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 14:59 |
asciilifeform |
in other lulz, https://archive.is/DBIRW |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 15:16 |
phf |
i wonder what they mean by "large amounts", could they just run a handful of FUCKGOATS in parallel? is there some hidden flaw in FUCKGOATS approach that makes the solution non-viable? so many questions! |
| |
↖ |
| 15:17 |
phf |
why is there a need for a "quantum random number generator" (from yesterday's thread)? |
| 15:19 |
asciilifeform |
i'd luvvv to know.. |
| 15:23 |
phf |
indeed. i'd like for one of these fucks to go "oh, we've tried this solution in 87 and there's reason A and B for why it's not applicable at industrial scale" or "oh we need 10000KB/s which means that blah blah blah" |
| |
↖ |
| 15:25 |
phf |
because as it stands it all very much looks like "we don't need solutions because dat grant money" |
| 15:39 |
asciilifeform |
phf: d00d was always a bit... odd. recall his paper re 'make as little use of rng as possible, because ohnoez it could be subverted' ? |
| |
~ 55 minutes ~ |
| 16:35 |
BingoBoingo |
ty fxd |
| |
~ 50 minutes ~ |
| 17:26 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform> and not by 'autodetecting' (validating!111) either, but by actual design << awww, k. |
| 17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663991 << yes, there is. it's not hidden, either : it dispenses with any role for or need of the stupid fat old women in "the Commission of the European Communities" not to mention " the Netherlands Organisation for Scientific Research " and etcetera. |
| 17:31 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 19:16 phf: i wonder what they mean by "large amounts", could they just run a handful of FUCKGOATS in parallel? is there some hidden flaw in FUCKGOATS approach that makes the solution non-viable? so many questions! |
| 17:32 |
mircea_popescu |
if only we agreed to agree the dumb cunts are important they'd gladly agree fuckgoats works! |
| 17:32 |
mircea_popescu |
problem is, when we wake up tomorrow, the dumb cunts will still be dumb cunts ; while fuckgoats will still work. |
| 17:33 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663994 << 10mbps is still cheaper to make with fuckgoats than through whatever alternative they have. |
| 17:33 |
a111 |
Logged on 2017-05-31 19:23 phf: indeed. i'd like for one of these fucks to go "oh, we've tried this solution in 87 and there's reason A and B for why it's not applicable at industrial scale" or "oh we need 10000KB/s which means that blah blah blah" |
| 17:34 |
mircea_popescu |
that's the thing with superior technology, the fact that you need 10 tons carried rather than 10kgs is not an argument in favour of oxcarts and against trucks. on the contrary -- the more needs carried, the more you want the trucks to carry it. |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: linux seems to have a problem with >7 usb-tty devices -- but this ain't asciilifeform's fault |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
so yes, you can stack'em |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
( say, N pogos; and 7 per ) |
| 17:56 |
asciilifeform |
alternatively you can use a 'rs232 card', as formerly used to run dumb terminals, bbs modems, similar -- i have one here, happily does 9 ports |
| 17:56 |
asciilifeform |
( at 115200 ea. ) |
| 17:58 |
asciilifeform |
you can get ones that do 32, even. |
| 17:58 |
asciilifeform |
rs232 has been around for loooooooong time |
| 18:00 |
asciilifeform |
'comtrol' makes a bunch |
| 18:01 |
asciilifeform |
others also. |
| 18:14 |
mircea_popescu |
aha |
| 18:15 |
BingoBoingo |
It's pretty clear that without scintillator'd FUCKGOATS that NoSuchlAbs needs to produce PASHTUN to herd FUCKGOATS |
| 18:15 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
| 18:17 |
asciilifeform |
if there were pent-up demand for ruinously high bit rate, we could do pci version with N analogue boards; but so far i dun see it |
| 18:18 |
BingoBoingo |
Give it 36 months for TMSR weather service S.CLIMAx to need ruinously high bitrate for "forecasting" |
| 18:18 |
mircea_popescu |
just pent-up domain to save the environment by publishing more pointless papers. |
| 18:19 |
asciilifeform |
( pci etc would make moar sense for 'atomic' trng, as described in older thread, with the scintillator, because there your entropy extraction is limited more or less only by the clock speed of the take-off/debiaser and the dead time of the scintillator (1-5ns) ) |
| 18:20 |
asciilifeform |
so 100-200MB/s easy. |
| 18:20 |
asciilifeform |
( per crystal! ) |
| 18:21 |
BingoBoingo |
In other victories for "our democracy" a minor Preetling arrested by local constables http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article153608214.html#wgt=trending |
| 18:23 |
mircea_popescu |
lost me at cloudflare |
| 18:24 |
BingoBoingo |
The driver left the scene of a property damage accident where his vehicle left the roadway. The driver smelled strongly of an alcoholic beverage and his eyes were red and glassy in appearance. The driver admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage. The driver was unable to complete the field sobriety testing. |
| 18:24 |
BingoBoingo |
Wigginton refused to take a Breathalyzer, according to the report. He posted $100 bail and was released. Wigginton resigned as U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Illinois on Nov. 24, 2015, to work for a private law firm. Wigginton became U.S. attorney in August 2010 after former U.S. President Barack Obama nominated him to serve as the top prosecutor in the states southern 38 counties. Wigginton, a Democrat, replaced Republica |
| 18:24 |
BingoBoingo |
n Courtney Cox, who was appointed to the position in 2007. |
| 18:29 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: i may be thick, but : what is interesting about this one ? |
| 18:29 |
asciilifeform |
what, 1 in 10 adult d00dz in usa did this crime. |
| 18:29 |
asciilifeform |
and maybe 1 in 100 does the time |
| 18:30 |
asciilifeform |
recall, this is the country where every pub has a PARKING LOT |
| 18:30 |
asciilifeform |
that holds dozens, sometimes hundred cars |
| 18:30 |
BingoBoingo |
But how many 1 in 100 doing the time also were Preetlings appointed by Hussein Bahamas? |
| 18:31 |
mircea_popescu |
the parking lot is for the people who came to eat! |
| 18:31 |
asciilifeform |
aaaah suure. |
| 18:37 |
BingoBoingo |
So in other local lulz, Marxist aggitators want to remove Confederate memorial from park in StL city. Same aggitators love/ignore local "farmer's" market that used to hold "Pick-a-Nigger Sunday" sales. |
| 18:39 |
mircea_popescu |
i don't think they go by what could be described as criteria. |
| 18:40 |
trinque |
same nonsense noise about sam houston statues here, by whichever loud daughters of california league. |
| 18:40 |
mircea_popescu |
~statues seem to be problematic to the ambulant children these days |
| 18:40 |
asciilifeform |
hey, the ukrs TO THIS DAY haven't run out of lenins to topple |
| 18:41 |
asciilifeform |
so much easier to turn over a statue than to actually accomplish something other than being piece of shit |
| 18:41 |
trinque |
kids can't stand up straight; objects that can't but otherwise, naturally offensive |
| 18:41 |
asciilifeform |
statues don't fight back, either |
| 18:42 |
mircea_popescu |
i confess i find toppling lenin statues quite satisfying myself. |
| 18:42 |
asciilifeform |
just as i will find turning over washington statues satisfying, if i live to partake of it |
| 18:43 |
mircea_popescu |
well, lincoln, for sure. |
| 18:43 |
mircea_popescu |
possibly worlds most over-rated war criminal. |
| 18:43 |
mircea_popescu |
~what the common libertard thinks hitler is, basically. |
| 18:45 |
asciilifeform |
funnily enough, not so many lincolns in usa |
| 18:46 |
asciilifeform |
other than the gigantic monster one in the capital |
| 18:46 |
mircea_popescu |
not that many hitlers either. some evil empires are more figurative than others. |
| 18:46 |
asciilifeform |
well lincoln's empire not yet rm -rf / 'd yet |
| 18:47 |
mircea_popescu |
there weren't any during the 1k years either. |
| 18:47 |
asciilifeform |
tru |
| 18:49 |
* |
asciilifeform generally barfs at photos of 'pulled down statue' given as they figure prominently in orangerevolutionary material, of pissants kicking dead lions |
| 18:49 |
mircea_popescu |
"why didn;t you pull it down back when it'd have meant something" ? |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
whether lenin, saddam, whoever. nothing pissant, esp in a crowd, loves more than to throw down symbol of ~his~ utter insignificance |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
aha. |
| 18:50 |
mircea_popescu |
there is that. |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
anyone recall description of old woman who fired revolver into (already long dead, hanging upside-down) mussolini ? |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
'one round for each of 8 dead sons!' or how it went. |
| 18:51 |
mircea_popescu |
5 iirc |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
'where were you when he was alive' |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
aha yes |
| 18:51 |
mircea_popescu |
i suppose when he was alive they weren't letting her get close enough ? |
| 18:53 |
asciilifeform |
~one~ possibility. |
| |
~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~ |
| 20:44 |
mod6 |
evenin' |
| 20:45 |
shinohai |
Buenas tardes mod6 |
| 20:45 |
mod6 |
o7 |
| 20:46 |
shinohai |
o7 |
| 20:49 |
mod6 |
pretty terse SoBA this month... |
| 20:49 |
mod6 |
will have it out in just a moment. |
| 20:53 |
shinohai |
For a less terse SoBA, participate and build your own. The voices in thy head will fill in the blanks |
| 20:54 |
shinohai |
>.> |
| 20:55 |
mod6 |
heheh |
| 20:56 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile, in monkeystan, https://archive.is/moE9o >> 'The ruling found no legal grounds for reversing Ulbricht's conviction or 2015 sentence for founding and operating Silk Road' << BingoBoingo / qntra ? |
| 20:57 |
asciilifeform |
^ check out the photo of judge ! |
| 21:03 |
mod6 |
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Republic: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-June/000265.html |
| 21:05 |
asciilifeform |
neato mod6 |
| |
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~ |
| 22:28 |
phf |
“Wonder Woman’s lack of armpit hair sparks feminist debate (nytimes.com)” |
| 22:30 |
mod6 |
haha |
| 22:40 |
BingoBoingo |
!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/I4ya3/?raw=true |
| 22:41 |
deedbot |
accepted: 1 |
| 22:42 |
deedbot |
http://qntra.net/2017/06/qntra-s-qntr-may-2017-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) May 2017 Report |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 22:58 |
BingoBoingo |
!~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3x8Or/?raw=true |
| 22:58 |
jhvh1 |
BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. |
| 23:06 |
BingoBoingo |
!~ticker --market all |
| 23:06 |
jhvh1 |
BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2355.07, vol: 17403.88195784 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2266.53, vol: 5836.33493 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2239.8, vol: 19350.1679223 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2474.307864, vol: 20638.22870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2347.809, vol: 9361.47482754 | Volume-weighted last average: 2350.18836504 |