Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2014-08-29 | 2014-08-31 →
00:00 asciilifeform must assume this happens, whether 'tor' or simply playful isp / backbone operator
00:01 asciilifeform see also earlier discussion of swallowing rsa signatures of people you don't know
00:01 asciilifeform same applies here
~ 28 minutes ~
00:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9425 @ 0.00084908 = 8.0026 BTC [-]
00:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00084905 = 3.2654 BTC [-]
~ 23 minutes ~
00:59 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach.
00:59 mircea_popescu we're decentralized over here.
01:00 mircea_popescu difference being, between how a soviet rocket works and how a school of salmon works.
01:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18372 @ 0.00084825 = 15.584 BTC [-] {4}
01:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00084497 = 3.4035 BTC [-]
~ 26 minutes ~
01:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: thing is - these salmon want - a rocket. and so will have to do some things they're unaccustomed to.
01:29 asciilifeform while remaining salmon, sure.
01:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18869 @ 0.00084497 = 15.9437 BTC [-]
01:45 BingoBoingo The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption
~ 15 minutes ~
02:01 cazalla well, they do swim against the current
02:14 ben_vulpes http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26h3o8/btcd_beta_announcement/chub4sp << forks are great yo quit bitching
02:14 assbot midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
02:15 ben_vulpes forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable.
02:20 ben_vulpes "Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm.
02:22 ben_vulpes " My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen
02:25 ben_vulpes "I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations.
02:30 ben_vulpes evening vex
02:32 Vexual 'evening good sir
02:35 ben_vulpes great logs tonight
02:35 * ben_vulpes applauds
02:35 ben_vulpes top notch
02:40 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes how's the coffee ?
02:51 punkman dobro jutro
02:59 Vexual hi punk
03:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00084497 = 13.3505 BTC [-]
03:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8076 @ 0.0008495 = 6.8606 BTC [+]
03:09 punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco4z98nIQY
03:09 assbot Parov Stelar - Booty Swing - YouTube
03:13 BingoBoingo ;;ticker
03:13 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.06, Best ask: 504.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.67000, Last trade: 504.0, 24 hour volume: 7779.59236845, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 507.673992263
03:13 BingoBoingo %v
03:13 atcbot [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 30d-Vol: 1.64M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 197
03:14 BingoBoingo %t
03:14 atcbot [X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A
03:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23999999 = 0.72 BTC [+]
03:25 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours!
03:26 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp. << sounds aboot like http://contravex.com/2014/07/31/y-combinator-the-american-idol-of-venture-capital/ but less original
03:26 assbot Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
03:30 pete_dushenski <ben_vulpes> also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good!
03:32 BingoBoingo http://www.coindesk.com/charlie-shrem-hopes-walk-free-guilty-plea-deal/
03:32 assbot Charlie Shrem Hopes to Walk Free After Guilty Plea Deal
03:33 pete_dushenski https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/505534170916225024
03:33 assbot Mr. /CharlieShrem, in taking it in the pooper like so http://t.co/qZe3na3Zd7 only proved his mousy illiteracy http://t.co/556Zm8Lku4
03:33 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: you win
03:33 pete_dushenski this round
03:33 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Win what?
03:34 pete_dushenski the marbles
03:34 Vexual your link post arrived first
03:35 pete_dushenski https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/505377483798368256
03:35 assbot German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists. http://t.co/DVwZQpOrnk (ger)
03:36 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/#comment-106873 >> lmao check out douchecanoe << ;-)
03:36 assbot Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
03:36 pete_dushenski Vexual: o hey
03:36 pete_dushenski so sydney...
03:36 pete_dushenski hipster spots are fine, but classics are better
03:36 Vexual i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm
03:37 pete_dushenski well… have. and yes.
03:37 pete_dushenski more looking for something unique
03:38 Vexual get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs
03:40 Vexual find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong
03:40 pete_dushenski http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g552124-d949190-Reviews-Doyles_on_the_Wharf-Watsons_Bay_Woollahra_Greater_Sydney_New_South_Wales.html << this one?
03:40 assbot Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor
03:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9424 @ 0.00085299 = 8.0386 BTC [+] {2}
03:41 Vexual prolly
03:41 pete_dushenski http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g255060-d5084700-Reviews-Dixon_House_Food_Court-Sydney_New_South_Wales.html
03:41 assbot Dixon House Food Court Restaurant Reviews, Sydney, Australia - TripAdvisor
03:41 pete_dushenski aite
03:42 pete_dushenski so far so good.
03:42 Vexual at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel
03:42 Vexual old cobbled streets, these days with lights
03:43 Vexual then theres a jazz spot a stumble away, where you can drink all the martinis
03:44 Vexual they all have halal options, and if you dont get jazz, they play blues
03:45 cazalla check out "the block" at redfern
03:45 pete_dushenski yum.
03:45 cazalla Vexual will vouch it's tops
03:46 pete_dushenski lolk
03:48 Vexual gentrified by hipsters these days
03:48 pete_dushenski the block is the aboriginal thing?
03:48 pete_dushenski http://www.sbs.com.au/theblock/diane.html#/diane
03:48 assbot Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary
03:49 Vexual youll also find cafes, tech startups, and old gangsters
03:51 Vexual when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence
03:51 pete_dushenski woa
03:51 pete_dushenski we're not staying far from there
03:52 Vexual dont high five any cops
03:52 pete_dushenski we're just at the south tip of hyde park
03:52 pete_dushenski unless the cops high five me...
03:53 Vexual :) it's all good
03:53 cazalla redfern isn't what it was so don't worry too much
03:53 Vexual when are you going?
03:54 Vexual ive excluded dinner spots over 2btc with waiting lists
03:54 pete_dushenski december
03:55 cazalla drop bears in season
03:55 Vexual sydney is hot in december
03:56 pete_dushenski lol so i hear
03:56 Vexual melb might be hotter?
03:57 cazalla not unless heatwave
03:59 Vexual if you wanna go 5 star you vould try quay
03:59 pete_dushenski historical averages have melbourne 5-10C warmer
04:01 pete_dushenski quay looks seriously premium
04:03 cazalla melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney
04:03 cazalla winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course
04:04 Vexual wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty
04:04 cazalla tbh i'd fuck sydney/melbourne off and go to tassie
04:04 Vexual er sexy
04:05 Vexual foodies paradise
04:07 pete_dushenski “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
04:08 pete_dushenski “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
04:08 pete_dushenski “Because I was afraid.”
04:08 Vexual king island cheese
04:09 pete_dushenski who doesn't like a fine cheese?
04:09 Vexual not i
04:09 pete_dushenski ;;google tassie
04:09 gribble Tassie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tassie>; The Silver Tassie (play) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Tassie_(play)>; Urban Dictionary: Tassie: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tassie>
04:09 cazalla bruny island cheese nicer
04:09 Vexual ooh
04:10 Vexual never tried
04:10 pete_dushenski a yes. tasmania.
04:10 cazalla Vexual http://www.brunyislandcheese.com.au
04:10 assbot Bruny Island Cheese :: home
04:11 Vexual goo in pinot and vine leaves? yes please
04:14 pete_dushenski just looking up ferries from melbourne to tassie: 10.5 hours!
04:14 Vexual your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there
04:15 cazalla pete_dushenski, bring you own food if you ever take spirit of tasmania
04:15 cazalla Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in
04:16 pete_dushenski plus bruny island's shop is clear on the other side of the island from devonport
04:16 pete_dushenski http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department
04:16 assbot L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker
04:16 cazalla you can always fly to hobart
04:17 Vexual cazalla, they prolly already have rabbits there
04:18 cazalla Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there
04:18 cazalla taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat
04:18 Vexual anyone vauum packing them and flying them to resturants?
04:19 Vexual yeah eat em and get new ones
04:19 cazalla dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs
04:19 Vexual theres costs, and theres value
04:20 cazalla i think it's due to calici and costs of vax
04:20 cazalla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmAGX9J3HlE
04:20 assbot Rabbit meat farms disappear due to virus and costs - YouTube
04:20 Vexual i guess you dont have that problem in your backyard
04:20 cazalla not yet
04:21 Vexual well it couldnt get in
04:21 Vexual but you know about intensive farming
04:22 Vexual a terrier run around the paddock should do the same as suburbia
04:22 Vexual put your house in the middle
04:23 Vexual get some plum trees and do plum rabbit
04:23 cazalla that sounds yum
04:23 cazalla when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild
04:24 Vexual ).05bc, air express
04:25 cazalla i sell you?
04:25 Vexual learn bees too
04:25 Vexual yeah ill buy
04:25 cazalla not worth my time at .05
04:25 Vexual yeah, but in time
04:26 cazalla i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here
04:26 Vexual my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding
04:26 cazalla how much do they charge?
04:27 Vexual i think its just south of 10 bucks a kilo
04:27 cazalla that's cheap, prob intensively farmed
04:27 Vexual and thats a long transport
04:28 Vexual how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild?
04:29 punkman wild doesnt have zone
04:29 cazalla i figured like 1/4 acre or something
04:29 punkman you ever try wild hare?
04:29 Vexual :) some of these cattle stations could call their beef wild
04:29 cazalla punkman, no but i'd like to
04:30 Vexual never tried hare
04:30 cazalla red meat yeah?
04:30 punkman yeah all dark meat
04:30 Vexual arent they just big rabbits?
04:30 Vexual oh
04:30 cazalla nah they are totally difference
04:30 cazalla different even
04:30 punkman I'm not really sure about the taxonomy
04:31 punkman but they are considered a delicacy around here, cuz we ate them all
04:31 Vexual lol
04:31 Vexual there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is
04:32 Vexual you'll prolly get a fucking government grant
04:34 cazalla it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves
04:34 punkman haven't heard of anyone farming them
04:37 punkman they don't like a crowd
04:38 Vexual terriers will keep em lean
04:39 Vexual and they wont dig out
04:40 Vexual cheap ammo for harvest:wild
04:44 Vexual thats less like fraud than spoofing your bitcoin client version
04:57 pete_dushenski ;;rate ben_vulpes 3 runs van-ads live from the 504
04:57 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ben_vulpes has changed from 1 to 3.
04:58 pete_dushenski ey looks like stephane dun approved of my translation. i'll take it!
04:59 pete_dushenski http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/#comment-7884
04:59 assbot InfoSec Education: Because Stphane Bortzmeyer Is Lazy. And I’m Not. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
05:00 Vexual lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz
05:01 Naphex http://i.imgur.com/gDohTUB.png - I call this artistic chart, "Saved By The Cache" :)
05:03 Vexual oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10
05:03 pete_dushenski Vexual: nice. ty.
05:05 cazalla all made in china
05:05 cazalla this the markets Vexual?
05:06 Vexual i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes
05:07 pete_dushenski time for sleeps. g'night b-a!
05:07 Vexual Naphex: what site? looks similar to "spam fail"
05:12 BingoBoingo http://www.theonion.com/articles/were-going-to-enjoy-this-cocainefueled-mason-jar-r,36779/
05:12 assbot Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
05:13 BingoBoingo http://www.theonion.com/articles/researchers-panda-faked-pregnancy-to-get-more-bamb,36809/
05:13 assbot Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
05:15 Vexual nothing quite like the onion
05:15 BingoBoingo Better than the Times
05:17 Vexual full fucking effect
05:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085477 = 9.6162 BTC [+] {2}
05:27 Vexual only chinese vets could claim a panda faked a pregnancy
05:30 Vexual the actual pregnat panda, the one that pissed on the stich has been hung
05:41 Vexual ;;google erowid mason jar
05:41 gribble Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : Bong & Pipe FAQ: <https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/faq_bong_pipe.shtml>; Erowid Mushroom Vaults : Cultivation Tips: <https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation17.shtml>; Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Storage in CO2: <https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info3.shtml>
05:43 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAOR6ib95kQ
~ 25 minutes ~
06:09 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQLAhNlbfQ reverse cronology and the price of safrole
06:23 kakobrekla <punkman> dobro jutro < lol what got into you
06:24 punkman feeling balkan today
06:27 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2qcbu26gs
06:27 kakobrekla well dobro jutro to you too ;)
06:27 Vexual what time is it there kako?
06:27 kakobrekla 12.27
06:28 Vexual bacon or bacon?
06:29 kakobrekla spam
06:30 Vexual my heart
06:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1229 @ 0.00085473 = 1.0505 BTC [-]
06:31 cazalla http://nationalreport.net/15-year-old-swatted-domestic-terrorism/
06:31 assbot 15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report | National Report
06:32 cazalla i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies
06:33 punkman http://nationalreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swatted.png
06:33 Vexual i dunno why he's crying, outcomes coulda been worse
06:33 punkman maybe they are tired of all the swatting
06:35 kakobrekla coulda been wrose?
06:35 kakobrekla worse*
06:35 kakobrekla like what, life in prison?
06:37 punkman http://stopmasturbationnow.org/lexicon/merriam-webster-adds-anti-masturbation-word-to-their-dictionary-fapstinence/
06:37 assbot Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE | Stop Masturbation Now
06:38 cazalla it's fake btw
06:38 Vexual its a job
06:38 cazalla not that, the swatting article
06:39 Vexual yeah, they might have told him about the"fucking with the police" ward
06:40 kakobrekla what is this another onion ?
06:40 Vexual everythings onion
06:40 cazalla yeah, sorry kakobrekla, Vexual is right
06:42 Vexual not quite
06:44 Vexual but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love
06:45 cazalla !s nationalreport.net
06:45 assbot 1 results for 'nationalreport.net' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nationalreport.net
06:47 BingoBoingo kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories.
06:48 jurov ;;later tell MolokoDesk if tao_jones has working replacement of ;;calc I am all for having it here
06:48 gribble The operation succeeded.
06:49 RagnarDanneskjol yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others
06:50 RagnarDanneskjol http://bit.ly/1a6QBcq
06:50 assbot Tao_Jones Quickstart
06:50 RagnarDanneskjol I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend
06:50 kakobrekla BingoBoingo sounded like texas to me
06:50 Vexual .bait
06:52 BingoBoingo ;;bait
06:52 gribble Error: "bait" is not a valid command.
06:52 BingoBoingo !bait
06:53 kakobrekla just use the fly fishing rod.
06:53 BingoBoingo !t m s.limbs
06:53 assbot Quest for vision is a great blessing.
06:53 Vexual either was my wrist hurts
06:58 Vexual i see ykyo there lurking
06:59 Vexual dya think he might develop a sense of humour?
07:05 fluffypony !up csshih
07:05 fluffypony ;;ident
07:05 gribble Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!~fluffypon@coreteam.monero.cc', is not identified.
07:05 fluffypony oh
07:05 Vexual missgivings aside theres lessons unleant
07:06 fluffypony !up csshih
07:06 fluffypony csshih: ping
07:06 csshih fluffypony, hi
07:06 Vexual !down fluffy pony
07:07 Vexual bwahah
07:07 fluffypony csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles?
07:08 csshih zebralight dominates in that category imo
07:08 csshih you looking for high-ish cri?
07:08 fluffypony yeah
07:08 fluffypony it's definitely the brightest
07:09 Vexual grown legs? what do your dogs do?
07:09 fluffypony and 4 day run time at 2.1 Lm is insane
07:10 fluffypony Vexual: we're talking about flashlights, not dogs :-P
07:10 Vexual grown legs means gone?
07:11 fluffypony yes
07:11 Vexual presumably stolen
07:12 fluffypony yeah I would imagine so
07:12 Vexual u might need something with d's
07:14 Vexual and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee
07:15 kakobrekla !up Ukyo
07:15 kakobrekla so how come you are still here?
07:22 Vexual lol anus
07:24 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVAetFthS9Y
07:27 jurov <mircea_popescu> [02:52:59] but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. << hahaha. actually, we kept original design done by scrat
07:28 kakobrekla did you have another design done?
07:29 kakobrekla ;;tslb
07:29 gribble Time since last block: 35 minutes and 50 seconds
07:32 Vexual ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://www.supremenewyork.com/interviews/lee_perry
07:32 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:38 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju-Hedh8Tdw
~ 22 minutes ~
08:01 jurov kakobrekla, only tuned logo so far
~ 2 hours 6 minutes ~
10:07 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3312 @ 0.00052471 = 1.7378 BTC [-] {32}
10:08 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2585 @ 0.00051042 = 1.3194 BTC [-] {7}
~ 21 minutes ~
10:30 kakobrekla http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-one-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/
10:30 assbot Inside one of the world's largest bitcoin mines - The CoinsmanThe Coinsman
10:30 kakobrekla different from the one last time
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
11:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085329 = 18.1751 BTC [-] {3}
12:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 9.57940004 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 833 satoshi per share
12:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.59377130 BTC to 15`114 shares, 10545 satoshi per share
12:07 mod6 %tslb
12:07 atcbot Time Since Last ATC Block: 1 hour(s), 0 minutes
12:11 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
~ 19 minutes ~
12:31 ben_vulpes ;;later tell vexual lee scratch perry - what a guy.
12:31 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 23 minutes ~
12:55 FabianB $mpexstatus
12:55 empyex FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
12:57 empyex FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (805 milliseconds), mpex.bz (606 milliseconds), mpex.co (813 milliseconds), mpex.biz (584 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (error)
13:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 70 @ 0.01170512 = 0.8194 BTC [-]
13:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 24 @ 0.0217227 = 0.5213 BTC [-] {2}
~ 43 minutes ~
13:58 ben_vulpes !t l s.mpoe
13:58 assbot The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
13:59 ben_vulpes !l m s.mpoe
13:59 assbot Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00085329 BTC [-]
14:00 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: the insureds will always complain about inadequate coverage, and the insurers will always complain about social inflation.
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
15:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00085469 = 6.5811 BTC [+]
~ 30 minutes ~
15:47 The20YearIRCloud safe deposit boxes only have the safety of being in a somewhat controlled environment
15:48 The20YearIRCloud There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em
15:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.01069994 = 0.7383 BTC [+] {3}
16:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00085665 = 21.6732 BTC [+] {2}
16:09 decimation re: safe deposit box << My bank's terms say: "We will not have any liability to you or any third party for incidental or consequential damages. If an arbitration proceeding is commenced, evidence that tends to prove that something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost because we were negligent, intentional did anything wrong or
16:09 decimation failed to exercise ordinary care. Nor will we be required to prove that the loss was not our fault."
16:10 decimation What has happened to banking in the US is parallel to the "substitution calculations" done by usg for inflation - ie a ground beef patty with filler is the same as a well-cooked steak.
16:14 decimation chetty: do you have any amusing links for us?
16:22 chetty decimation, my net was down, I am behind on my reading today
16:24 decimation chetty: no problem, I always look forward to the interesting nuggets you have on offer
16:34 chetty <decimation> well the good part is I got a lot of work done on Eulora today :)
16:42 asciilifeform decimation: something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost << conclusion: bury your goods in the forest. fuck bank.
16:43 asciilifeform even ignoring the traditional devil of 'fdr gold confiscatorwagen' (tm) - bank essentially gives itself permission to steal whenever.
16:44 The20YearIRCloud thus why i hate the idea of safe deposit boxes
16:44 The20YearIRCloud my preference would still be a safe sunk into a concrete wall in a basement room that can't be easily accessed
16:45 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: bad idea. in many quite probable scenarios, one loses access to 'own' property first.
16:46 asciilifeform but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
16:47 The20YearIRCloud So what's the best option?
16:47 The20YearIRCloud air/watertight container in nowhere?
16:47 asciilifeform again - depends on answer to above question
16:47 asciilifeform (please don't answer it here!)
16:47 The20YearIRCloud Let
16:48 The20YearIRCloud Let's say you have a honus wagner card
16:48 The20YearIRCloud in an airtight holder
16:49 decimation The20YearIRCloud: you own properties right? how many potential hidey-holes are there?
16:49 asciilifeform again, depends not only on the 'what' but 'from whom'
16:49 The20YearIRCloud Plenty , but the problem there becomes the idea of how you access it in a time of emergency should it ever be needed
16:49 The20YearIRCloud Granted nothing I own has substantial value
16:50 decimation asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere
16:50 The20YearIRCloud One good thing with modern technology is the premise of doing waht they did in breaking bad and putting a 55 gallon drum in the middle of nowhere and record GPS locations
16:50 chetty if you own a bit of property (not really but thats another story) there is a paper trail that shows it ...how you gonna hide anything?
16:51 The20YearIRCloud Like decimation said, it depends on who you're hiding it from
16:52 asciilifeform if enemy knows you have $goodie, and you are captured - might as well mail it in to the crown treasury now - avoid burned starfish later
16:53 The20YearIRCloud Yeah
16:53 decimation us persons simply have no access to 'allodial title', not even as a rental
16:53 The20YearIRCloud i look to what people did during the yugoslovian war for modern examples of waht , and what not to do
16:54 The20YearIRCloud There are states that are working towards true land ownership
16:54 asciilifeform also understand why archaeologists still turn up buried jars of, e.g, roman gold.
16:54 The20YearIRCloud ND and WY i think are two states that allow a person to buy absolute land, with no further taxes involved outside of day of sale, with no government recourse
16:54 asciilifeform treasure - is usually a result of folks who bit the dust without ever getting to make use of the $goodies.
16:55 decimation The20YearIRCloud: generally those states (like nevada) use the words "allodial title" to mean "pre-pay your land tax"
16:55 The20YearIRCloud And in some cases, those states are pretty hands-off when it comes to private property
16:56 asciilifeform forget present-day law. the pertinent question is 'who knows that you have $object'
16:56 The20YearIRCloud That's likely always the best defense
16:57 decimation The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property
16:57 The20YearIRCloud ah
16:59 asciilifeform very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away
16:59 asciilifeform if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice
17:00 BingoBoingo !b 2
17:00 asciilifeform and buy the obligatory set of new passports / favours
17:01 asciilifeform but if you must:
17:01 asciilifeform here's a recipe i shared with al schwartz once
17:02 chetty <asciilifeform> if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice//++
17:02 asciilifeform build a capsule, of the smallest adequate size (al suggested inconel or hastalloy for the material. not cheap - but then again, it'll be a small fraction of the total cost of project)
17:02 asciilifeform capsule must have positive buoyancy when you're done filling it
17:02 asciilifeform weld it shut.
17:03 asciilifeform attach anchor, with sonophone-triggered explosive bolt on chain.
17:03 asciilifeform sink in international waters, record position.
17:03 asciilifeform sonophone trigger should only answer (with 'pop' of anchor chain) in response to key.
17:03 decimation asciilifeform: re: raising an army: The scale of humanity today is such that being a 'land baron' is almost impossible. Consider Mr. Yarvin's quote-of-a-quote: " As the laws of King Ine of Wessex famously put it: We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, and "brigands" for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army."
17:03 asciilifeform keep key in head.
17:04 decimation hope bolt works after time passes
17:05 asciilifeform i don't know who al might've shared the recipe with, but u.s. navy funded almost exactly this scheme as a mega-project a few years ago.
17:05 decimation when the population is several orders of magnitude less dense, "me and my army say so" is a more realistic source of power
17:05 asciilifeform perhaps it was an obvious idea.
17:05 The20YearIRCloud how do you use a signal that will penetrate the water?
17:05 decimation sound waves can go thousands of miles underwater
17:05 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: hydrophone on wire.
17:05 asciilifeform lower it to the thermocline.
17:06 The20YearIRCloud i guess i missed hydrophone part
17:06 Namworld So I was browsing wikipedia for fun, when I found something funny. Can you spot it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nocturnal_animals
17:06 assbot List of nocturnal animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
17:07 asciilifeform 'programmer.'
17:07 * asciilifeform guessed
17:08 asciilifeform !s night old enemy
17:08 assbot 1 results for 'night old enemy' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=night+old+enemy
17:08 Namworld eheh
17:09 * asciilifeform for the record doesn't own anything worth the cost of ocean capsule.
17:10 * asciilifeform but likes the idea anyway. a few km down in sea is the closes thing nature gives us, afaik, to a 'trap door function' for physical goodies.
17:11 asciilifeform make sure capsule has enough excess buoyancy when triggered to rip itself out of the crud that sunken objects inevitably embed themselves in over time.
17:12 asciilifeform also ensure that the hidey-hole can be found without recourse to satellite navigation.
17:12 asciilifeform ^ might be the hardest part
17:12 decimation asciilifeform: what about "find granitic megalith (like Yosemite), build hut, dissolve deep hole using HF, then fill with concrete?
17:13 asciilifeform drilling a hole creates a very distinct density anomaly that ground-penetrating radar sets (ask a construction co. that deals with underground pipes) readily turns up.
17:13 asciilifeform regardless of what you fill it with later - will read differently from natural rock.
17:14 decimation good point. Notwithstanding the logistics issues. The advantage to your sea-vault is that it could be (in theory) sunk with submarine, which would probably be difficult for any advanced gov't to track.
17:14 asciilifeform no need to buy a submarine
17:14 asciilifeform small sailboat would suffice.
17:14 asciilifeform to deploy device, just chuck it overboard.
17:15 decimation asciilifeform: agreed, modulo lack of interest in being followed, etc
17:15 asciilifeform if you have enemies who will follow your sailboat around in the atlantic, you have other problems that must be dealt with first.
17:16 asciilifeform capsule can also be flown to its resting place.
17:17 decimation like a sono-buoy
17:17 asciilifeform (building a device that can fly back - exercise for alert reader.)
17:17 jurov um.. but with increasing amount of ocean trash, won't you have a problem to locate the capsule once it surfaces from $ kilometers?
17:18 asciilifeform jurov: include beacon.
17:18 asciilifeform (triggered on anchor release, naturally.)
17:19 decimation or sonar beacon
17:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2508 @ 0.00085583 = 2.1464 BTC [-]
17:19 asciilifeform don't drop the treasure near 'SOSUS'
17:20 decimation which raises the question, is a reasonable hydroarray a feasible addition to said small sailboat?
17:20 asciilifeform no need for this. a simple strobe light should suffice for night search.
17:20 asciilifeform (after capsule pops to the surface)
17:20 decimation true, especially with cheap 'night vision' gear
17:21 asciilifeform if you have an object that is worth, say, 100k to hide and retrieve, go ahead and follow recipe. but also consider the easier 'sell it and run with the money'
17:22 decimation I suppose if the purpose in hiding the object is simply to escape the gulag, it would be better to start planning your escape now
17:23 asciilifeform i later learned that v. n. chelomei (famous soviet rocket designer) proposed the placement of atomic bombs near u.s. east costs using a scheme much like this. (official story - it was vetoed as barbaric)
17:23 asciilifeform by admiralty
17:23 asciilifeform 'we fight like men, not thieves in the night'
17:23 decimation better yet an undersea missile in a tube
17:23 asciilifeform *coasts
17:24 asciilifeform if i recall, he also suggested they be placed in the 'great lakes'
17:24 asciilifeform with idea being, no need to bring them to surface before firing
17:24 decimation in retrospect that kind of "proposal" sounds more like a 'limited hangout' kind of operation
17:24 asciilifeform (at the time, u.s. had industry, and a good portion of it was in that region)
17:24 decimation I suppose if they were close enough to cities that would be feasible
17:26 jurov afaik nukes need periodic maintenance.. would it really be feasible to do it on seabed every so often?
17:26 * asciilifeform suspects that proposal was vetoed as laughable because the nukes in russian embassies make it redundant.
17:26 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I was about to point that out, it would be much simpler to rent a 'safehouse' and fill with nukes
17:26 asciilifeform jurov: tritium booster capsule is good for ~20 yrs.
17:27 asciilifeform the point of the proposal, according to legend, was to specifically make use of the water.
17:27 asciilifeform not simply as a hiding place, but as the weapon
17:28 decimation ah, water = fusion fuel
17:28 asciilifeform no
17:28 asciilifeform as steam, to wash the factories with.
17:29 asciilifeform the americans, for some reason unknown to me, pre-empted this project by destroying own industry.
17:29 asciilifeform (why? ask them)
17:31 asciilifeform back to topic - if you really must hide physical objects, read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories.
17:31 asciilifeform note that neither 'gps' nor its soviet equivalent existed at the time.
17:32 Apocalyptic "read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories." // any particular book in mind ?
17:32 decimation you quoted a story about how they recruited 'agents' in those territories?
17:33 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: there's an account in english-language 'the sword and the shield' (mitrokhin) of one swiss cache that was dug up when he tipped off the local authorities.
17:33 asciilifeform if you somehow learn where one is - don't touch it. they were all mined.
17:33 Apocalyptic ty, will look that up
17:34 asciilifeform worth reading solely for the 'geocaching' craft.
17:34 asciilifeform (i.e., how to bury, given that you will only be able to find the location again using geographical clues - and trees, buildings, etc. can disappear over the decades)
17:35 asciilifeform but really this is one of those 'games where the winning move is not to play.'
17:36 asciilifeform if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time.
17:36 decimation re: underwater nuke << use tried, worked well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53vDnNPiA4
17:36 assbot Wahoo and Umbrella - Filmmaker recounts nuclear test - YouTube
17:36 decimation s/use/usg/
17:38 decimation The intention might have been exactly what that video shows: wash away all the people in the city, then occupy
17:38 asciilifeform usg also had, in that period, a fixation with gigantic naval battles
17:39 asciilifeform (when 'war game' simulations revealed that all american ships would perish within hours, they started rigging the 'games')
17:39 Apocalyptic <asciilifeform> if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. // terrible as in wasted ?
17:39 asciilifeform yes.
17:39 Apocalyptic i've probably wasted more time on lesser occupations
17:40 asciilifeform not just time.
17:40 asciilifeform satan preserve you if anyone learns you had something worth using this procedure on.
17:40 Apocalyptic oh, I see
17:40 asciilifeform enemy will flay you and everyone you call a friend, to try to learn where it is.
17:41 Apocalyptic It's more out of curiosity than out of potential usefull procedures I may apply in the future
17:42 asciilifeform soviet 'treasure burial' teams have created some very interesting (if dangerous) finds for future archaeologists.
17:43 kanzure lana sator has been doing some of that archeology already
17:43 asciilifeform and i can hardly imagine that other nations didn't crib from their recipe.
17:43 kanzure exploring various abandoned soviet particle accelerators, etc
17:43 kanzure http://lana-sator.livejournal.com/
17:43 assbot , , , ... 18+
17:43 kanzure wha?
17:43 asciilifeform kanzure: nah, those're plain old ruins
17:43 decimation asciilifeform: usg nuclear bombing ships: yeah there's the famous 'nuclear attack on fleet' bomb series at the bikini atoll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9yS0tRFhI
17:43 assbot Project Crossroads Nuclear tests near the Bikini Atoll - Baker Shot 1946 - YouTube
17:44 asciilifeform anyone who wants to see these ruins - suitcase, airplane, don't wait for the scrap dealers.
17:44 asciilifeform take a geiger along.
17:46 decimation in vegas off the strip there is a 'nuclear testing museum: I recommend going if you find yourself there.
17:47 decimation when I went there was a fellow there who apparently was part of the crew that would enter the underground 'cave' formed by an explosion
17:48 decimation one such experiment: http://www.wipp.energy.gov/science/ug_lab/gnome/gnome.htm
17:48 assbot Project GNOME - Unrelated to WIPP...but nearby
17:52 Apocalyptic asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?
17:52 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way
17:53 mircea_popescu this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.
17:53 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print
17:53 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic do you know it ?
17:54 asciilifeform everybody knows that one.
17:54 Apocalyptic this looks like it was printed first, allegedly in 1990
17:54 Apocalyptic mircea, I'm asking whether it's worth a read, I don't have nor know it
17:54 mircea_popescu i meant the joke
17:55 Apocalyptic I don't
17:56 mircea_popescu cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained.
17:56 mircea_popescu cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again
17:57 mircea_popescu by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire.
17:57 mircea_popescu finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely
17:57 mircea_popescu he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes
17:57 mircea_popescu "mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?"
17:57 mircea_popescu "i dunno... maybe stop sending niggers ?"
17:58 mircea_popescu what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ?
17:58 asciilifeform based on supposedly-actual story, where russians noticed that staples in certain passports failed to rust.
17:59 mircea_popescu yea lol
17:59 asciilifeform cristopher << brit. mitrokhin surrendered to the brits.
17:59 mircea_popescu so ?
17:59 asciilifeform muppet, who was given the job of cranking out a tabloid-grade book supposedly based on the 100kg or so of stolen paper.
18:00 mircea_popescu "inside the genovese family, by derparian herparistarian." wtf already. no armenians in sicily.
18:00 asciilifeform lol
18:01 mircea_popescu anyway, one is well advised to evaluate his level of interest on such topics. if it's a passing casual worth 5k words then skimming one of these pulpy offerings is maybe fine. if serious enough to remember names, then probably skimming the original papers is a better bet
18:02 mircea_popescu rather than reading the same "us girl next door in a sheet = roman matron" story re-written over and over 500 times.
18:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: very few of the original papers were ever made public as such
18:02 asciilifeform and the authenticity of the ones that were - is, naturally, questionable.
18:03 mircea_popescu srsly when i saw you discussing indexing and searching pdf documents i thought this is what it was for - all that crap is pdf-digitized.
18:03 mircea_popescu outside of digging through secret service archives, why the fuck would anyone put up with pdf.
18:03 asciilifeform some. of the purported crap. yes.
18:04 asciilifeform russians, accustomed to carrying around terabytes of scanned w4r3z for a generation, prefer 'djvu' - for which there is really no substitute.
18:04 decimation djvu is a pretty amazing 'paper' compression tool. proprietary "paperport" works very well too
18:04 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
18:04 asciilifeform (fully documented format, originally, afaik, crapped out by 'bell labs')
18:06 asciilifeform 'djvu', even on an aged box, scrolls so quickly one almost can believe he has a microfilm viewer.
18:06 asciilifeform a fat book takes <5 MB typically.
18:07 asciilifeform if you have an 'ocr' system, the format allows for an searchable text 'track.'
18:07 decimation to be fair I think there are methods of using good compression with pdf too. My main point yesterday was about searching the text, for which pdfs are not necessary. after all, if you ocr it, then it ought to exist as a .txt file
18:08 asciilifeform afaik patent trolls succeeded in more or less exterminating acceptable compression for scanned books. djvu was devised by folks who didn't care to comply.
18:09 asciilifeform present-day ocr is notoriously inadequate for scanned historic documents, esp. of poor quality or non-latin scripts.
18:09 asciilifeform plus one generally wants to keep the photos.
18:10 mircea_popescu this would have been a perfect application for ai
18:10 asciilifeform ocr performed on 'djvu' document typically inserts an ascii text track, along with 'bounding boxes' internally
18:10 mircea_popescu "given this string and this set of photos, find the string likelies"
18:10 asciilifeform so document becomes quasi-searchable while viewed in the customary way
18:10 mircea_popescu sadly... no ai.
18:10 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I agree, 'djvu' with a text-track would be a pretty good format
18:11 mircea_popescu maybe with quantum computing.
18:11 asciilifeform decimation: it's already in the standard
18:12 asciilifeform modern 'neural network' ocr - at least for latin alphabet - is 99+% accurate. sadly this is not enough to dispense with the original images.
18:13 mircea_popescu i meant "for any script"
18:13 mircea_popescu it's MACHINE intelligence after all neh ?
18:13 mircea_popescu this is where it should shine
18:13 asciilifeform yes, we'd all like 'a pony.'
18:13 mircea_popescu i'd like a fluffy one! :D
18:13 fluffypony lol
18:14 asciilifeform 'i even made a pony-monkey hybrid to please you! what's with all the screaming. you like monkeys, you like ponys. maybe i used too many monkeys... isn't it enough that i ruined a pony making a gift for you!'
18:14 decimation asciilifeform: do you know of a reasonable gui tool to search and index djvu's with text?
18:15 * mircea_popescu sayz sed! awk! then re-reads the gui part, ponders, gets depressed and leaves.
18:16 Apocalyptic heh
18:20 jurov indexing with sed/awk, rly?
18:22 ben_vulpes jurov: *shrug*
18:22 ben_vulpes indexing the blockchain? sed and awk!
18:22 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes what is the objection ?
18:23 decimation mircea_popescu: sed, awk works fine if you want to search your entire corpus every time
18:23 mircea_popescu and if you don't you can make them make an index file.
18:23 ben_vulpes ain't none
18:24 decimation this is true, seems like it should be a 'solved problem'. I think some implementations of 'hadoop' do exactly this
18:26 dignork decimation: Lucene probably
18:26 mircea_popescu decimation i think the only reason it isn't a solved problem is this sort of argument : http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/ ie "usability". once you add that fuzzy requirement smart people get bored and leave,
18:27 mircea_popescu leaving the mess to be handled by the sort of people that make guis.
18:27 decimation true. making a good gui is difficult and thankless work
18:27 mircea_popescu no, it is impossible and thankless work. difficult is one thing.
18:28 mircea_popescu but a good gui is a provab le impossibility. "make me a very hot woman that still wants to be my girlfriend instead of say that guy's"
18:34 jurov remembering names and most used options of gnu text suite is an impossibility, too
18:35 decimation jurov: agreed. I'm always having to consult find, grep, xargs, etc man pages
18:37 mircea_popescu well depends how much thought you put into it
18:37 mircea_popescu i don't readily remember the names of all the women i've been with either.
18:37 mircea_popescu on the upside, once you get it done you can forget about it.
18:39 decimation heh yeah, which results in sites like this: www.commandlinefu.com/
18:40 mircea_popescu "Create a random file of a certain, and display progress along the way."
18:40 mircea_popescu SYNTAX ERROR!
18:40 mircea_popescu MISSING PARAMETER AFTER "certain". please read your commandlinefu documentation and try again!!11
18:42 mircea_popescu and who the hell has cowsay installed omg.
18:42 Apocalyptic "Random data is generated by encrypting /dev/zero" // a curious way to generate random data
18:43 jurov i was intrigued why it isn't possible for computer to keep asking for missing pieces until the task is fully defined
18:44 jurov "Please define `random'"
18:44 jurov would be fund to watch its users
18:44 jurov *fun
18:45 mircea_popescu "random"
18:46 jurov "Random means in no predefined order"
18:47 jurov "Error, please retr with positive definition"
18:47 asciilifeform 'error - not a typewriter' << actual
18:48 jurov lp0 on fire
18:48 mircea_popescu not a bad idea jurov
18:48 asciilifeform lp0 on fire << saw this alive
18:48 asciilifeform (not the message. the condition.)
18:48 asciilifeform mis-spent youth.
18:52 asciilifeform 'usability' << is not necessarily a nonsense word. consider the difference between the linux and bsd userland utils
18:53 asciilifeform in the latter, considerably greater consistency of flags
18:54 asciilifeform but yes, normally when people whine about 'usability,' they want - pony.
18:55 asciilifeform i.e., instrument with user interface of a pencil, but somehow not the functionality of pencil.
18:56 asciilifeform 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
18:56 mircea_popescu ^
18:56 mircea_popescu (the cunt also)
18:56 mircea_popescu oddly enough.
18:57 asciilifeform on which end.
18:57 mircea_popescu on both ends.
18:57 mircea_popescu dealing with the fallout is learned, but using the things is innate.
18:58 mircea_popescu and for that matter, pencils are horribly unintuitive interfaces. think of all the great drawing in the world, and the poor user buying a pencil in the shop will draw what ? a cat ?
18:59 mircea_popescu this old world sort of nonsense can not endure my friends! i am making a company that will revolutionize drawing!
18:59 asciilifeform -- said herr daguerre
18:59 mircea_popescu shit.
18:59 mircea_popescu i just walked into that didn't .
19:00 asciilifeform did. lol
19:00 mircea_popescu +i
19:02 * asciilifeform always found it interesting that people whine if they try to use his computer, but never think to borrow eyeglasses and then complain
19:02 asciilifeform obligatory:
19:02 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=836
19:02 assbot Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated.
19:04 asciilifeform (moral, for the thick, is that an equivalent of the profession 'optician' does not yet exist for these machines)
19:04 asciilifeform and may not ever exist.
19:07 mircea_popescu dude you and your vi hate.
19:07 mircea_popescu but actually... i find myself using nano a lot moar these days
19:10 decimation I use nano when emacs is too heavy-handed
19:12 mircea_popescu so mebbe there's some meat to the assertion, vi inhabits a middle that doesnt really exist
19:14 penguirker New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/operation-terrorstorm-oneoneeleventy/
19:15 mod6 <3 vi/m
19:19 cazalla oh boy
19:22 cazalla sounds like decentralised swatting
19:22 decimation mircea_popescu: yeah your post reminds me of Mr. Yarvin's point about insulting the "protected class".
19:23 mircea_popescu cazalla quite. costs like a bitcoin to do, too.
19:24 decimation one wonders about the total sum of $ that usg has spent just this year searching enemies of the people
19:24 mircea_popescu i have a glass table and an optic mouse.
19:24 mircea_popescu fucking hell.
19:34 mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBYM6g8Tck
19:34 assbot Los del Rio - Macarena (Original Video) [HD] - YouTube
19:35 cazalla i wonder what the chicks in that music video look like now
19:36 mircea_popescu fifty year olds.
19:47 cazalla !s newegg
19:47 assbot 22 results for 'newegg' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=newegg
19:47 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#756333
19:47 assbot Logged on 15-07-2014 16:54:16; ThickAsThieves: even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg
19:49 cazalla would it be a safe bet the reason newegg and other sites offer a discount when using bitcoin is that it's easy means of coin for usg? they can print as much $ to give discounts and the coin flows from customers -> newegg -> bitpay -> usg?
19:57 The20YearIRCloud http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/8/27/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-on-galts-gulch-chile.html
19:57 assbot The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on Galt's Gulch Chile
19:58 The20YearIRCloud so mr berwick knew problems last year and didnt do anything?
20:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00085109 = 5.447 BTC [-]
20:07 thestringpuller i am about to go into a panel on bitcoin lol
20:08 thestringpuller cazalla: this is great point
20:15 mircea_popescu http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=240 lawl
20:15 assbot #bitcoin-assets bash
20:16 decimation lol The20YearIRCloud that's an amusing post
20:18 mircea_popescu uomoletale ahajhajaja
20:18 mircea_popescu !up blast
20:19 blast huzza
20:19 mircea_popescu The20YearIRCloud i don't get what this "let's all go huddle together" thing is supposed to do.
20:19 mircea_popescu seems of the ilk of "island of women" and "tower of song", ie, cheap notional filler for "virtual spaces" a la video games
20:20 blast but the island of woman is real, except its a mountain, in brazil ;D
20:20 mircea_popescu ;;google tvtropes planet of hats
20:20 gribble Main/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats>; Webcomic/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Webcomic/PlanetOfhats>; Main/Planet of Copyhats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfCopyhats>
20:20 mircea_popescu blast romania has this too. it's called gaina, which is how you say hen, and it's the place surpluss women were taken by their tribe for to sell over to another tribe for > 5k years.
20:21 penguirker New blog post: http://contravex.com/2014/08/30/im-big-in-fuzhou/
20:23 mircea_popescu The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em << isn't there a reality show predicated on this process ?
20:24 mircea_popescu decimation lmao at those terms. so... why get it then ?
20:24 asciilifeform i thought those go to the basement of 'the fed' in wash., d.c.
20:24 asciilifeform it is said to contain a great many.
20:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re: 'swat' post: am i the only one who instantly thought of this: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/files/2009/09/14-sovietleaderleonidbrezhnevandeas.jpg
20:26 mircea_popescu lol
20:26 mircea_popescu someone should morph http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swatted.png to the lemons kissing.
20:26 mircea_popescu as a gif. enough nightmare fuel there for a week
20:27 thestringpuller theu are talking aboit the collapse of mtgox
20:27 thestringpuller i will be referwncing trilema
20:28 thestringpuller wow lag beyond trade engine lag
20:28 mircea_popescu decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere << bs lol.
20:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'usg' in that context also includes all 'decay daughters' thereof
20:29 asciilifeform i.e., armed thugs turned free-agent when the whole thing finally blows
20:29 mircea_popescu sure.
20:29 mircea_popescu even so.
20:30 asciilifeform in my experience, folks preoccupied with hidey-holes tend to neglect the question of where they intend to hide... their arse
20:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085067 = 18.1193 BTC [-] {2}
20:30 mircea_popescu meanwhile back at reality ranch, obtaining superior fire power in a limited geographical area is a trivial task.
20:31 mircea_popescu the usg collapsing doesn't make it harder.
20:31 asciilifeform while supplies last.
20:32 mircea_popescu for everyone. this is not a valid objection any more than saying "for as long as gravity is still in force"
20:32 asciilifeform and if it becomes generally known that, e.g., a Castle Moldenstein, contains a bunker full of goodies - there is the incentive for all-comers to soften the target.
20:33 asciilifeform the best castle wall is - distance. works even on nukes.
20:35 mircea_popescu it's not as simple as that.
20:35 mircea_popescu take any stirkingly beautiful woman walking into a bar. is she more likely or less likely to be hit on ?
20:36 asciilifeform point, yes
20:36 mircea_popescu any supermodel material chick will tell you nobody dares, on the assumption.
20:36 mircea_popescu so, some may try to soften the target, which allows the target to populate the road towards it with heads on pikes.
20:36 mircea_popescu which is the point of a "justice system" in the first place.
20:36 mircea_popescu overall, these would be "softeners" work as hardeners and are quite useful.
20:37 asciilifeform there are folks (in usa) working on this variant as we speak. the ones that succeed and aren't provocateur shills - we'll know because none of them are on the net.
20:37 mircea_popescu and which is why it's so important to get the message loud and clear to any bureaucrat anywhere, that if it comes to war, and we win, he will hang.
20:37 mircea_popescu no questions asked, and his children will be raped for the public record.
20:38 asciilifeform if this happens - it'll be a historic first, afaik.
20:38 asciilifeform ussr, for instance, did no such thing when germany lost.
20:39 mircea_popescu ussr isn't remembered for having been led by the smartest people ever.
20:39 asciilifeform how does one say 'приспособленец' in english ?
20:39 asciilifeform that's who most of the muppets in question are
20:39 mircea_popescu but yes, the "no historical precedent" is what the bureaucrat instinctively answers
20:39 mircea_popescu it was on display earlier in this very chan.
20:40 asciilifeform naturally.
20:40 mircea_popescu here's a thought : everything that has historical precendent now didn't originally.
20:40 asciilifeform led by the smartest people ever << aye. witness that there are 'ukrainians' alive.
20:41 mircea_popescu on the strenght of the zero one infinity rule alone, and of the banal observation that bitcoin also has no historical precendent, it seems... unwise to bet that 1 is the lucky number.
20:41 mircea_popescu infinity seems infinitely more likely.
20:41 asciilifeform inventions - happen.
20:41 asciilifeform seems like we've this one nailed down. now, implementation... 'exercise for alert reader.'
20:42 Bet created: "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/
20:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it will probably come down to "you're not in the wot, and so therefore may not claim to own property or pretend to sue anyone"
20:43 mircea_popescu problem solved.
20:44 mircea_popescu "your negative rating in the wot means you can be killed by anyone and nobody'll care or do anything about it"
20:44 mircea_popescu now try and argue why it's not really fair that you're negrated because some major players didn't like your early anti-bitcoin involvement.
20:44 mircea_popescu xmj experienced live a tiny case study of this general principle, originally.
20:50 Bet placed: 3.35069497 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.45069497 BTC. Current weight: 99,995.
21:03 Bet created: "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/
21:05 asciilifeform killed by anyone << aha - 'homo sacer'
21:06 Bet created: "Any DERP to bite it" http://bitbet.us/bet/1035/
21:06 mircea_popescu decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property << that';s maybe going a little far. but the right to quash any action of anyone involving that land is germane.
21:06 mircea_popescu (you wouldn't be able to arrest anyone, but you would be able to void any application for a warrant)
21:07 Bet created: "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/
21:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away << this argument is flawed in the following way : for he who is repulsed by war, this holds true. for he who however enjoys war, no payment is necessary.
21:08 mircea_popescu the relevant quote is in http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ :
21:08 assbot A very unfair perspective. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
21:08 asciilifeform if like war - straight to war.
21:08 mircea_popescu There isn’t, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active. If you’re not prepared and absolutely willing to spend any amount of time up to the entire rest of your life seeking out and butchering leeches with only the satifaction of well applied, excruciating cruelty as your reward, you’re not made for this world and you won’t long have a place
21:08 mircea_popescu in it. This can’t be delegated, it’s a personal thing. Like citizenship. Like nationality. The only nation immune to the fate of Rhodesia is a nation of that kind of people, living in that kind of world.
21:08 mircea_popescu and it links quite well into "what would the devil have to pay you for you to love him".
21:08 mircea_popescu if you don't like living, you can't be paid to live.
21:08 mircea_popescu if you like living, pay is not really a relevant consideration.
21:08 asciilifeform but notice that active players in a war rarely occupy themselves with hiding valuables
21:08 mircea_popescu quite.
21:09 mircea_popescu because the fetish of value is not value
21:09 mircea_popescu and people who like to live have enough sense to understand this difference.
21:09 asciilifeform hold territory - sure. impale enemies - yes. bury treasure - why ?
21:10 asciilifeform hence the sea capsule example. for some classes of object (nuke?) this might be cost-effective storage.
21:11 asciilifeform (free up the men normally guarding for other pursuits; replace with king neptune, who can't be bribed and doesn't sleep)
21:11 mircea_popescu kinda what the nuclear subs are anyway.
21:11 asciilifeform yes. but those have engines, men, cost more.
21:13 asciilifeform sea capsule is just a gedankenexperiment (though, i'm told, u.s. navy has insisted on actually trying.) i'm not altogether convinced that, properly carried out, it is cheaper than 'graveyard orbit'
21:23 mircea_popescu not easy evaluating what such things cost.
21:24 Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ Odds: 2(Y):98(N) by coin, 2(Y):98(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.6 BTC. Current weight: 99,988.
21:24 decimation re: allodial title: I suppose with reference to how it was practiced in medieval England, the king's agents could be on your property on business which has the mutual consent of the king and his lords
21:24 asciilifeform i did tally up the cost, but the first anything naturally - expensive.
21:25 decimation re:safe deposit box, my understanding is that these are the terms all banks in the us give for such things
21:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6334 @ 0.0008534 = 5.4054 BTC [+]
21:25 asciilifeform drowning a box of strange in the atlantic is a considerably quieter operation than launching a rocket, however. so perhaps it wins.
21:25 mircea_popescu decimation it's complicated, but in general property is the bane of human existence, so any absolute property has the potential to be absolutely murderous.
21:26 mircea_popescu (look at what happened when people thought the church is a people, started donating a little to it and inadvertently created the largest landholder because unlike them, thge church didn;t die regularly)
21:26 decimation I'm thinking of the mongols' advantage over the static empires of the east
21:26 asciilifeform decimation: the point of the bank box story is that it was entirely unclear to me wtf is the very point of such a thing, given the caveats
21:26 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire
21:27 decimation certainly nothing of 'value'
21:27 asciilifeform decimation: esp. since the one and only event that could reasonably be insured against - contents present at logged date N and absent on opening N+k - wasn't.
21:28 decimation well I think those terms are 'aspirational' - it goes to the arbitration conversation from a few weeks ago. everyone wants a click-wrap eula that holds them immune from any liability
21:28 asciilifeform implication, to me, was - if you're happy with the box, take your goodies and post them straight to the enemy - at least then you'll know where they are.
21:29 decimation heh yeah agreed, especially if the 'value' of those items was simply the information on the documents
21:31 decimation re: gult's gulch << I find it amusing that folks who supposedly value 'self-reliance' and 'liberty' are unable to actually fly to chile and buy some land for themselves, it can't be that hard for a person with means & brains
21:31 asciilifeform decimation: see mircea_popescu's point earlier
21:32 asciilifeform decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls
21:32 mircea_popescu <decimation> asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire << divorce.
21:32 asciilifeform divorce << probably the worst possible use of a bank box in usa. other tidbit in the contract was that the bank will immediately impound any box against whose owner there are civil proceedings
21:33 decimation in which case the courts will hand whatever valubles to the woman, 'to support the children'
21:33 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls << well their government kinda depends on this principle, so if it';s good enough for the king...
21:33 mircea_popescu this is what fucking moral hazard means, incidentally.
21:34 asciilifeform i can hardly picture a dumber hiding place then a container in a public place with your name on it.
21:34 mircea_popescu ok, so no divorce, no flood http://www.cnbc.com/id/49972188
21:34 mircea_popescu fire seems the only reason left :p
21:34 asciilifeform fire was also excluded.
21:34 asciilifeform 0 liability for bank.
21:35 mircea_popescu seeing how supermarkets also offer lockable containers on the same premise as banks do
21:35 mircea_popescu it seems to me it's time to go down on sam's club for acting like a bank w/o a license.
21:37 asciilifeform upon reading of that contract, i came to inescapable conclusion that the box thing is an active chump-magnet rather than simply a poor deal.
21:37 mircea_popescu basically, it's the living wage embodied.
21:37 mircea_popescu everyone wants to be paid a rent for existing
21:38 mircea_popescu banks not exluded.
21:38 The20YearIRCloud safe deposit boxes?
21:38 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: them.
21:38 The20YearIRCloud Around here, most use coffee cans buried. Now you can go to a store and get a "underground safe"
21:38 decimation let me look at my terms... yep, it excludes fire, explosion, intense heat, smoke, water (including fire suppression system) building collapse, terrorism, war, intentional destructive acts, or failures of electrical, mechanical, plumbing or structural systems, or for actions caused by any person
21:39 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: field day for the folks with ground-penetrating radar.
21:39 asciilifeform (not to be confused with 'mine detector' that every kid owns)
21:39 asciilifeform decimation: my particular one even mentioned failure of the vault locks.
21:40 mircea_popescu lol
21:40 mircea_popescu hahaahah
21:40 mircea_popescu dudes you gotta get out of the sticks, srsly.
21:41 The20YearIRCloud I keep looking for GPR so i can take it to properties/estates I buy out
21:41 The20YearIRCloud Once in a while I get the chance to buy a un-touched estate - Kids have no interest or are out of state, a trustee locks the property up and you bid on the real estate + all contents
21:42 asciilifeform get out of the sticks << all of us in the sticks - are there for reasons.
21:42 asciilifeform just like the other wretches stuck therein
21:42 decimation The20YearIRCloud: yeah that's probably not a bad idea, radar would also find unpleasant surprises that are buried
21:42 The20YearIRCloud Such as?
21:42 asciilifeform decimation: the instrument in question is no military secret of any kind. contact a firm that lays pipes.
21:43 asciilifeform or - build own.
21:43 mircea_popescu <The20YearIRCloud> Such as? << dead hookers, for one.
21:43 The20YearIRCloud I don't know that they can be built, the costs were exorbant for non-military types
21:43 asciilifeform incidentally, if burial is recent, a searcher can use 'nazi method'
21:43 The20YearIRCloud and the thing is, for the most part the world is a big big place and GPR is very limited in what it can do
21:43 asciilifeform that is, pour water, see how quickly it absorbs
21:43 decimation The20YearIRCloud: barrels of toxic waste?
21:44 The20YearIRCloud Or mason jars full of old coins :D
21:45 mircea_popescu The20YearIRCloud here's an exercise for you. today you find in a yard 1k coins of 10 grams each, minted 1750.
21:45 asciilifeform when digging my garden (moved out of microscopic flat in late may, into a rented house) i found intact glass bottles, with caps on. appear to contain decades-old 'coca cola.'
21:45 mircea_popescu how much is this find worth in dollars ?
21:45 mircea_popescu (gold coins, i mean)
21:45 The20YearIRCloud One guy found around $200k in his back yard in my area
21:46 decimation there was this story last year: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-buried-california-gold-coins-auction-20140528-story.html
21:46 assbot Rare gold coins buried in California hit market; one fetches $15,000 - LA Times
21:46 asciilifeform how much he kept from the 200 ?
21:46 The20YearIRCloud Depends on who minted them and the composition :D
21:46 asciilifeform how much the crown took; how much - auctioneers
21:46 The20YearIRCloud Even in the mid 1700s the quality of gold coins ranged from 50% to 92.5%
21:46 The20YearIRCloud $15k isn't much for a 'rare gold coin'
21:46 mircea_popescu The20YearIRCloud how much did he get to buy beer for ?
21:46 asciilifeform plus such finds are generally sold for numismatic value, and not as bullion
21:46 asciilifeform so anyone's guess
21:47 decimation The20YearIRCloud: that was one coin out of 1400
21:47 mircea_popescu (in general your take is about the same as if publishing a book : about 5 to 10% after govt, agent, editor etc is done raping you)
21:47 The20YearIRCloud But usually the sensationalist media takes the biggest/best one to start it off with
21:47 decimation :The so-called Saddle Ridge Hoard, made up of denominations of $5, $10 and $20, could bring in $10 million when the sale is all said and done, with several pieces expected to command prices as high as $1 million, experts say."
21:47 The20YearIRCloud heck we had a local auctioneer do one guy's coin collection, the whole collection fit on a few small tables and sold for $350k
21:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and this isn't even considering the variant with spurious lawsuits
21:47 mircea_popescu indeed.
21:47 decimation one wonders about the potential 'laundry' being done off of such a rich stash
21:47 asciilifeform for instance, IANAL, but i can easily picture, e.g, a landlord, arguing 'mineral rights' on the coins.
21:48 asciilifeform or - to make life more interesting - let's say that you find a sealed crate of kalashes, in cosmoline, rather than coins.
21:49 decimation or barrels of toxic waste
21:49 asciilifeform or 'mustard gas' - as happened in early 2000s near an embassy in d.c.
21:50 decimation heh didn't hear about that til now http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/jan99/mustard24.htm
21:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ah that's where saddam was keeping his chem weapons ?
21:50 asciilifeform worth what? plenty. liquidate it? more likely, your organs will be sold to pay for it carted away
21:50 mircea_popescu o wait, it wasn't him. it was bush that hung for this
21:50 asciilifeform lol
21:51 The20YearIRCloud If I find a box of AKs here in the US there's nothing to do but leap for joy
21:51 decimation "Army officials say the canisters, if they exist, do not pose a threat to the affluent Spring Valley neighborhood as long as they remain undisturbed." << "it's okay for you"
21:51 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: afaik+ianal - it depends where in usa.
21:51 The20YearIRCloud Theoretically it'd be possible to sell them in any state if you take the right steps
21:52 The20YearIRCloud if they're real-deal AKs you just demill the reciever, then the rest can be sold
21:52 asciilifeform if they're the real thing (full auto) - you're probably bankrupt just staying out of court
21:52 asciilifeform sold as scrap, yes.
21:52 The20YearIRCloud if they're semi autos, they can be sold to out of state
21:52 The20YearIRCloud Scrap = Worth $300-$3000 depending on make
21:52 asciilifeform to go back to the example with coins - you're probably safe if you melt them down and sell by gram
21:52 decimation start stashing 7.62 ammo and raise army
21:52 The20YearIRCloud The serial numbered portion is the only part essentially that's illegal
21:52 asciilifeform but this destroys most of the value of the find
21:53 asciilifeform so we're no longer answering the question of what the find per se is worth, in that case.
21:53 The20YearIRCloud With regards to coins, you only need to avoid the very, very limited types that are assumed to be stolen from the mint
21:53 asciilifeform eventually, the soviet denouement is that all precious metal is presumed 'stolen from mint.'
21:54 The20YearIRCloud Other than that, it's pretty easy to stay quiet, and slowly sell off the horde without signfiicant attention
21:54 asciilifeform other interesting thing about treasure is that, afaik, your tax liability officially begins when the shovel opens the box
21:55 asciilifeform see the many stories of lotto winners who take home mazeratis and then go bankrupt
21:55 decimation asciilifeform: brings to mind the play quoted by Mr. Yarvin where the kulak is found guilty of hording foreign currency in basement
21:55 asciilifeform khruschev turned this into a hanging offense. retroactively.
21:55 asciilifeform (gold, rather than foreign currency, in that case, but applied across the board)
21:57 The20YearIRCloud In the us , gold hording could be jailable, but silver hording was encouraged
21:58 The20YearIRCloud speaking of the 30s-50s
21:58 asciilifeform silver, at the time, (and largely still today) being primarily an industrial metal - the supply was already safely corralled.
21:58 decimation yeah back in the early 1900's the whole idea of the 'silver dollar' was the precursor to the modern bezzle
21:59 The20YearIRCloud Us silver coin production was astronomical
21:59 decimation after 'backing' your currency with relatively worthless metal, the next logical step being to 'back' it with nothing it all
21:59 asciilifeform they occasionally turn up in loose change even now.
22:00 decimation silver makes excellent electrical conductors though.
22:00 asciilifeform decimation: understand why it is rarely used as such.
22:00 The20YearIRCloud Right now it's about 1:10,000 in dimes, and about 1:25,000 in quarters
22:00 asciilifeform (while gold is king in all fine electronics)
22:00 The20YearIRCloud and around 1:1,000 from halves
22:01 asciilifeform oxidation.
22:01 decimation asciilifeform: yeah oxidation, terrible contacts
22:01 decimation gold however...
22:02 decimation gold actually has worse conductance than copper, but it doesn't oxidize
22:02 asciilifeform usually the absolute conductivity isn't critical. resistance to corrosion and heat conductivity - is.
22:03 asciilifeform copper plated with gold is more or less 'best of worlds'
22:03 The20YearIRCloud Well, considering how little of the connection is used for the gold, it makes plenty of sense
22:04 decimation ie your ENIG boards
22:04 The20YearIRCloud gold connectors are usually large, so there's more conductivity (due to lower resistence)
22:04 asciilifeform and everybody's.
22:04 The20YearIRCloud Although theoretically silver wire with gold connectors would be the bee's knees
22:04 decimation gold is also used exclusively to connect pins to chip dies if I recall correctly
22:04 The20YearIRCloud That's also true
22:04 asciilifeform yes
22:04 asciilifeform gold also solders beautifully, because the coating remains smooth
22:04 The20YearIRCloud This is of course until we discover room-temperature superconductors, then it's all off
22:05 The20YearIRCloud The little bit of silver soldering I've done has been quite smooth too
22:05 asciilifeform room-temperature superconductors << unless we all perish in laser pistol duels.
22:05 The20YearIRCloud I just want my emdrive hovercar and hoverbike
22:05 decimation The20YearIRCloud: doubtful. in most circuitry heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical, and it's hard to imagine said superconductors would be better/cheaper to fabricate than the metals we are discussing
22:05 The20YearIRCloud Most of the data I'm seeing seems to support that once we reach that point, everyone gets their own airship
22:06 The20YearIRCloud I'm sure that's right, but i can dream
22:06 asciilifeform heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical << consider why virtually all present-day applications of low temperature superconductors is in high-strength magnets.
22:06 asciilifeform because there - yes, critical.
22:07 asciilifeform room temperature supercon is a box of surprises.
22:07 asciilifeform e.g., home 'mri' scanner plus some fairly simple image processing.
22:07 asciilifeform result - no rich man need die from most cancers.
22:08 decimation I think there are some cold superconductors used in new york to move lots of electricity through tight spaces too: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/superconductors-enter-commercial-utility-service
22:08 assbot Superconductors Enter Commercial Utility Service - IEEE Spectrum
22:08 asciilifeform don't shoot a man with lead and gunpowder, shoot him with pocket railgun on watch battery - classier.
22:08 The20YearIRCloud we'
22:08 asciilifeform (bonus: shoot with the battery)
22:08 The20YearIRCloud We have been very much on the upswing concerning superconductors. 50 years ago you had to be near absolute zero, now you can do it at like -200c
22:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00085789 = 6.4342 BTC [+]
22:09 asciilifeform al schwarts published a possible recipe for room temperature supercon - afaik, it was ignored.
22:09 asciilifeform (or in use by chicoms - like his certain other creations)
22:10 asciilifeform (which others?
22:10 asciilifeform !s eotvos
22:10 assbot 2 results for 'eotvos' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=eotvos
22:10 asciilifeform )
22:10 The20YearIRCloud is he the emdrive guy?
22:10 asciilifeform no.
22:11 asciilifeform his products - work.
22:11 The20YearIRCloud Emdrive seems to work too
22:11 asciilifeform in the sense that podkletnov's drive 'worked.'
22:11 asciilifeform (emdrive, not schwartz)
22:12 The20YearIRCloud It's going to JPL for testing, which is a pretty darn good sign as to it working
22:12 asciilifeform as did podkletnov's, afaik.
22:12 The20YearIRCloud And from the papers I've seen, it doesn't seem to be signfiicantly more different than the theory behind VASMIR, and NASA was all over that 15 years ago
22:13 asciilifeform nasa is happy to fund every perpetual-motion crank on the planet - but if you're an industrial organic chemist with a history of rocking the boat - forget it.
22:13 asciilifeform vasmir doesn't violate newton's 3rd.
22:13 The20YearIRCloud neither does the emdrive
22:14 asciilifeform if you ask any physics crank, his machines never violate physical law
22:14 The20YearIRCloud and in the case of emdrive as well, it's signfiicantly more efficient than ion drives, but not absurdly so
22:14 asciilifeform there's always an 'imaginary particle' involved
22:14 The20YearIRCloud And it, just like ion drives, both would benefit amazingly well by room conducting superconductors
22:14 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
22:14 The20YearIRCloud Like quantum entanglement?
22:15 asciilifeform what classical law does it violate?
22:16 asciilifeform understand, we'd all love a working perpetuum mobile or reactionless thruster.
22:16 The20YearIRCloud I'd have to find the papers, but 30-40 years ago it was supposed to violate several principals
22:16 asciilifeform but the folks involved with 'emdrive' have a rich history of fraud (usg and principals both)
22:16 The20YearIRCloud And now, peer reviewed studies seem to come out every few months continaully supporting entanglement
22:17 decimation asciilifeform: it seems to me that an Eötvös balance would be pretty straightforward to build
22:17 asciilifeform decimation: dig the log
22:17 asciilifeform decimation: we came up with a setup that didn't require eotvos balance
22:17 The20YearIRCloud And harold white is a con too?
22:17 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772706
22:17 assbot Logged on 27-07-2014 19:05:02; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in 2010 i concocted a variant of the test that could be carried out for approx. 50k USD, from scratch. schwartz answered that, in his estimation, the test would work to spec, but results would not be accepted by the field unless carried out on one of the two existing eotvos balances. one - adelberger's, one - chicom.
22:18 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: no need to be a con man in the usual sense to acquiesce to usg SOP.
22:20 asciilifeform if you want to know what test - bring schwartz out of his hidey hole, wherever it is, and ask him. he enjoys explaining it, me - it just depresses
22:20 decimation But according to wikipedia, it appears that the Eötvös balance is some balls, a rod, some string, and some mirrors
22:21 asciilifeform if you want the needed accuracy - it's rather more complicated.
22:21 decimation okay that makes sense
22:21 asciilifeform (atmosphere of controlled temperature, pressure - and, more importantly, provenance)
22:21 asciilifeform concept of 'provenance' is key here
22:21 asciilifeform i recall mircea_popescu even used this tale as an example in an essay
22:21 decimation as in, ensuring that all of the masses can be traced to some standard, etc?
22:22 asciilifeform not only standard, but as agreed upon by all pertinent professionals
22:22 asciilifeform including the set that want schwartz to die in a fire
22:22 asciilifeform (he nearly managed it once)
22:22 asciilifeform (30+% 3rd deg. burns)
22:23 decimation wow, that sucks. metrology is it's own weird little world
22:23 asciilifeform if i were to sell a few extra organs, i could run the 50k variant of the experiment. and i'd go to my grave knowing that equivalence principle can be violated. but that'd be all.
22:23 asciilifeform it won't: 'count.'
22:24 decimation I called up NIST a few weeks ago, asked them how much it would cost to measure the phase noise of an oscillator. They said it would only cost their time, which would come to about $10k! for a morning session
22:24 asciilifeform schwartz is one of the very few people i know of whose problem cannot be solved with money per se.
22:25 asciilifeform he could, potentially, upgrade to rich pariah instead of modestly wealthy pariah
22:25 asciilifeform but that'd be it.
22:25 decimation well, mircea's theory is that musical tastes randomly change with time & entropy, the same is true for academic fashions
22:26 asciilifeform decimation: there's also other factors.
22:26 decimation one wonders which forgotten scientist will be recorded by history while official science is resigned to the dustbin
22:26 asciilifeform decimation: adelberger, for example, would have to perform seppuku - and all of his students, and their students
22:27 asciilifeform (if schwartz were to be permitted to carry out his experiment, and obtained a positive result)
22:28 asciilifeform understand that the effect in question, even if it turns out to work as herr schwartz predicted, doesn't yield an 'antigravity jetpack'
22:29 asciilifeform it exists - if exists - somewhere after the 8th decimal.
22:29 asciilifeform but to even begin the kind of work it would take to 'technologize', is an investment that no one would remotely contemplate without the kind of proof that can only be obtained after his enemies were to give in.
22:29 decimation yeah but it would have implications for relativity theory apparently
22:29 asciilifeform or a few centuries after we've all died.
22:30 decimation 'how much would you have to pay your enemies not to crush you in your moment of need'
22:30 asciilifeform this, as i understand, is why schwartz never made any attempt to raise funding
22:31 asciilifeform he's a clever enough fellow to understand that this would cement his already unenviable position
22:31 asciilifeform regardless of the outcome of the experiment, he'd end up seen just like the fellow who opened the 'esp instutute'
22:31 asciilifeform *institute
22:32 asciilifeform you can't pay your enemies to die.
22:33 asciilifeform if ussr were alive, perhaps he'd have defected.
22:33 asciilifeform but i suspect he'd sooner fellate his 'magnum.'
22:34 asciilifeform but this is the very problem that multiple kingdoms one can defect to is the only known solution.
22:34 asciilifeform see galileo & florence.
22:34 asciilifeform but they have to be actual sovereign kingdoms - not muppet shows.
22:34 asciilifeform and - they have to give a damn.
22:36 decimation yeah this connects with our discussion the other day about the collapse of the ussr being terrible for usg
22:36 asciilifeform if i were, e.g, mircea_popescu, and gave a damn, i'd offer schwartz xxxx btc. half to show up here, half after he explains himself.
22:36 asciilifeform but poor s. apparently went 'full perelman mode' and doesn't write back any more.
22:37 asciilifeform (how to know that schwartz (or taleb, or...) collects 'prize' rather than usg stooge with a shannonizer and irc connection - exercise for alert reader.)
22:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29650 @ 0.00085641 = 25.3926 BTC [-] {2}
22:38 asciilifeform the most i can offer to interested readers is repeat of mircea_popescu's algorithm 'have sex - with people, do business - with keys.'
22:38 decimation “I don't even have an E-mail address. I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive messages,” Eco said at a party in his honor at the University Club of Chicago.
22:38 decimation http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/06/26/of-eco-and-e-mail
22:38 assbot Of Eco And E-mail - The New Yorker
22:38 asciilifeform this is called perelman mode.
22:38 asciilifeform partial, if you like. full perelman is when you haven't a post address either.
22:38 asciilifeform !s perelman
22:38 assbot 3 results for 'perelman' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=perelman
22:39 decimation perelman turned down the fields medal right?
22:39 asciilifeform not only.
22:39 asciilifeform he also turned down, if i recall, government pensions, interviews with journawhores, all of it.
22:39 asciilifeform lives somewhere in russian north, among the trees.
22:40 asciilifeform go find him.
22:40 decimation probably with these folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_People:_A_Year_in_the_Taiga
22:40 assbot Happy People: A Year in the Taiga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
22:40 asciilifeform if he's feeling charitable, he might leave archaeologists a box of notebooks the ants won't eat.
22:41 asciilifeform (as, e.g, k. f. gauss did)
22:42 asciilifeform for all we know - perelman was eaten by local fauna, or fellated his nagant
22:42 asciilifeform but once in a while you hear that some busybody found him and told 'fuck off, can't answer for your safety if i see you again.'
22:42 decimation it seems very few extreme math geniuses find this world a 'habitable' place
22:43 asciilifeform perelman had the unfortunate combination of math and iron balls. he would not 'play ball'.
22:44 The20YearIRCloud who is eco again?
22:44 decimation another way of looking at it: he's decided to hold 'allodial title' over his mind, the only place that is really possible in this world for mere humans
22:44 asciilifeform umberto eco.
22:44 asciilifeform decimation: this.
22:44 decimation he wrote 'the name of the rose' among other things, ascii quotes it from time to time
22:44 The20YearIRCloud i've been off reading physics articles trying to grasp things and lost the conversation
22:44 asciilifeform decimation: the only work of that man i found readable
22:45 asciilifeform as i understand - he caught a memetic virus - 'postmodernism' - and might as well have contracted 'mad cow'.
22:45 asciilifeform (eco, not perelman)
22:46 asciilifeform same thing happened to russian mega-author v. pelevin
22:46 asciilifeform the action of the 'virus' was evident in his early work, but it got worse.
22:46 decimation it is probably terrible to become an object of some fad among elites today
22:47 asciilifeform decimation: eco, pelevin, others - were clever chaps; understood that if you suck cock, you become a cock-sucker, even if 'your heart isn't in it' at first
22:48 asciilifeform schneier, i'm certain, understood
22:48 asciilifeform can carry on the list, but why.
22:48 asciilifeform we can all write the list.
22:48 decimation probably the only real defense is to go 'full perelman'
22:48 asciilifeform less of a defense and more like slow-motion seppuku
22:49 asciilifeform this, incidentally, is how science dies.
22:50 The20YearIRCloud because of the gubberment?
22:50 asciilifeform http://yarchive.net/physics/effete.html
22:50 assbot Becoming effete (Steven B. Harris)
22:50 asciilifeform nah.
22:50 asciilifeform usg 'science' is - scar tissue.
22:50 decimation 'this' being that 'science' becomes inhabitable for non-fraudulent scientists?
22:50 asciilifeform aye.
22:51 decimation I mean un-inhabitable
22:51 asciilifeform right
22:51 The20YearIRCloud so where do they go?
22:51 asciilifeform civilizations senesce and die - like people.
22:52 asciilifeform this is possibly the best-known fact about them.
22:54 decimation that's a good-quality usenet rant
22:54 asciilifeform lots more where it came from.
22:55 The20YearIRCloud lol
22:56 The20YearIRCloud i'm trying to catch up and understand :D
22:56 The20YearIRCloud Darn my lack of understanding
22:56 decimation !s professor salary
22:56 assbot 1 results for 'professor salary' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=professor+salary
22:56 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2014#451059
22:56 assbot Logged on 21-01-2014 01:57:20; decimation: ?In 1890, professors salaries [at Amherst College] were $ 2,500, more than twenty times tuition. The step up from laborer to professor was immense, for the average wage earner in 1890 earned $425 a year. ?
22:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13559 @ 0.00085789 = 11.6321 BTC [+]
22:57 decimation that explains some of the problem: the egalitarian mind-virus
22:57 asciilifeform decimation: can't fix with money. soviet professors rolled in cash (compared to most other occupations.) this just attracts poseurs.
22:58 asciilifeform (just as you can't fix, e.g., old age, with money - here's another 'yarchive' nugget - http://yarchive.net/med/conspiracies.html)
22:58 assbot 404 Not Found
22:58 asciilifeform go to hell, arsebot, it's 'found'
22:58 asciilifeform point being - we don't know how to repair broken cultures. the best we know - is how to help them die.
22:59 asciilifeform re: professors:
23:00 asciilifeform consider if you were to offer $maxint for antigrav device.
23:00 asciilifeform all the money in the world won't conjure into existence 'the rabbit out of a hat, unless said rabbit is already in the hat'
23:00 asciilifeform at least, not on a time scale you could put up with.
23:01 decimation yeah that's a good point. I think the money is less important than the relative status, which is less important than just getting people to defer to their betters quickly
23:03 asciilifeform decimation: reward with status - get usg academics.
23:03 asciilifeform you get what you optimize for - plus exhaust.
23:06 asciilifeform there is probably a 'perelman' within driving distance of where you (any you) live. but he's almost certainly surrendered and sucking state cock (and perelman no longer) - or is occupied with the minutiae of physical survival
23:07 asciilifeform BingoBoingo, perhaps, is working on the problem of building a hard disk that survives several centuries of exposure in the wilderness
23:08 asciilifeform and if he isn't, he should be
23:08 decimation etch binary on rocks?
23:08 asciilifeform latency's killer.
23:09 decimation heh
23:09 asciilifeform state of the art is probably (cloth-based) paper under inert gas.
23:10 decimation asciilifeform: does your nexus 10 provide reasonably close 'paper-like' screen presentation?
23:11 asciilifeform decimation: i trim all the border whitespace and get approx. the same 'paper' size as the original document
23:11 asciilifeform so in that sense yes
23:12 asciilifeform (as if this needed repeating - but for completeness - don't keep sensitive non-public material on 'nexus' or similar machine.)
23:12 decimation assuming 1 inch margins that sounds about right
23:12 decimation encrypted blobs are probably okay
23:13 decimation no keys though
23:13 asciilifeform solely ones you'd consent to have transmitted by radio across the planet
23:13 decimation right.
23:13 asciilifeform it is - a toy.
23:13 * asciilifeform owns a number of toys, like other people
23:14 The20YearIRCloud Did I tell you guys that the bank approved the series of loans for RentalStarter?
23:14 decimation do you have any non-toy computers aside from your symbolics machines?
23:14 asciilifeform depends how you cut it
23:14 decimation good job The20YearIRCloud!
23:14 The20YearIRCloud Big thing is the terms were superior to what I expected, 5% vs 7%, and the ability to do 20yr fixed payback vs 15yr payback or adjustable rates
23:15 * asciilifeform organizes machines similarly to mircea_popescu
23:17 asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: almost certain that, given this, it doing anything but sitting on btc is a loss
23:17 The20YearIRCloud as in not utilizing available capital>
23:17 asciilifeform as in utilizing, to buy coin.
23:18 decimation that's true, if btc is going to succeed, it is inevitable that it goes up several orders of magnitude in dollar price
23:18 The20YearIRCloud Yeah
23:18 asciilifeform someone (mircea_popescu?) suggested that, for so long as fiat long-term credit is available to anyone, this'll be the bullet that keeps killing it until dead.
23:18 The20YearIRCloud Which is worrysome to me, but then I do have an auto-buy going through on a regular basis, so i'm trying to diversify in multiple methods - Bitcoin, USD, Silver/Gold/Coins , guns, real estate
23:19 The20YearIRCloud hopefully between all that I'll personally be OK, but as far as the business is concerned, till bitcoin is a national currency and most workers get paid in it, it's gonna be hard for us to get truly involved in the BTC economy
23:20 decimation The20YearIRCloud: sounds reasonable. real financial lending will not take place in bitcoin until it becomes the 'new currency'
23:21 The20YearIRCloud And it's hard to judge when that will be, otherwise I do believe our model hedges well against USD collapse, and any major problems, while building enough capital and assets, should we have another downturn that we will be able to severely profit from it
23:32 peterl The20YearIRCloud: so now you get to hold onto bitcoins and use loans to buy houses?
23:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00086132 = 16.0636 BTC [+]
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