Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-07-14 | 2014-07-16 → ↓
00:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.1774593 = 0.7098 BTC [-] {4}
~ 55 minutes ~
01:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00270404 = 2.4336 BTC [-] {13}
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
02:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.17085641 = 2.9046 BTC [-] {6}
02:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.16583334 = 0.995 BTC [-] {2}
~ 23 minutes ~
03:14 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00170604 = 0.853 BTC [-] {4}
~ 1 hours 48 minutes ~
05:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.01630197 = 0.6521 BTC [+] {5}
~ 1 hours 54 minutes ~
06:57 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 575 @ 0.003 = 1.725 BTC [-] {10}
~ 2 hours 55 minutes ~
09:52 danielpbarron yay!!
09:52 mircea_popescu lmao
09:54 mircea_popescu !up fluffypony
09:54 mircea_popescu lol
09:54 pankkake !up fluffypony
09:54 fluffypony tks
09:54 fluffypony still need to eauth
09:55 mircea_popescu fluffypony so not that terribly interesting, the sort of "i've done google research from the us" article.
09:55 fluffypony I can't even remember which article it was
09:56 fluffypony slow brain day
09:56 mircea_popescu http://www.singularityisnear.co/bitcoins/bitcoin-industry-thrives-in-argentina
09:56 assbot Bitcoin industry thrives in Argentina. "A new safe haven". - Singularityisnear
09:56 fluffypony ah yes
09:56 mircea_popescu dumb shit like "counting sites" and doing site per million inhabitants comparisons
09:56 mircea_popescu as if that fucking makes any difference.
09:57 fluffypony heh heh
09:57 fluffypony Internet marketing types :-P
09:59 mircea_popescu http://btcclicks.com/ads << look at these fuckwits jesus god.
09:59 assbot Surf Advertisements | BTC Clicks | Earn Bitcoins - Bitcoin Advertising - Bitcoin PTC
09:59 mircea_popescu so a) they advertise in google, paying top dollar (1st result)
09:59 mircea_popescu b) they run the dumbass iframe model
10:00 mircea_popescu c) their publishers include luminaries such as "fair ponzi"
10:00 mircea_popescu d) they... actually... run A DIFFERENT AD NETWORK in their dash.
~ 58 minutes ~
10:58 bitcoinpete https://twitter.com/alansilbert/status/489059224349978624
10:58 bitcoinpete "@jgarzik Jeff, is there a dumbed-down explanation somewhere of how to set up a node?"
11:00 danielpbarron dummies shouldn't run nodes
11:01 bitcoinpete just linked him pankkake's article on running a remote one
11:01 pankkake I should test it before :p
11:02 pankkake I'm not sure debian runs it by default
11:02 bitcoinpete lol
11:02 bitcoinpete hurry! before the veecees break something!
11:03 bitcoinpete dood already fav'd my tweet!
11:04 bitcoinpete lol bitstein told alan silbert to download the core client and… run it.
11:05 bitcoinpete alan's all: "Thanks Michael. Now I feel really dumb to have not found that easier. Thx!"
11:06 fluffypony yeah
11:09 bitcoinpete so mr fluffypony when can we look forward to reading your tales of baltic adventures?
11:09 pankkake is that the guy who bought all the coins?
11:09 pankkake quick, send him some forum IPOs
11:09 fluffypony bitcoinpete: this week, hopefully, been insanely busy
11:10 bitcoinpete fluffypony: what's keeping you occupied?
11:11 bitcoinpete pankkake: the silberts tried to buy the sr coins and… failed
11:11 bitcoinpete tim draper took 'em all down
11:11 bitcoinpete heya bitstein
11:11 bitcoinpete we were just mentioning you vis-a-vis silbert's node
11:12 fluffypony bitcoinpete: had lots of catch-up work to do, missed a group exco meeting whilst I was away
11:12 fluffypony and then we're tendering for a sales office on an estate on the Garden Route that has tons of holiday homes for rent
11:12 bitstein hey bitcoinpete
11:13 fluffypony so there's a ton of work on that to finalise before the 25th
11:14 bitcoinpete fluffypony: a i c
11:14 bitcoinpete bitstein: what's good?
11:15 bitcoinpete "With apologies to both F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway, it seems the rich are not only different than you and me; they also have even more money than we previously thought." << que bueno!
11:15 bitstein started the homestretch of school yesterday
11:16 bitcoinpete http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-15/the-rich-are-even-richer
11:16 assbot The Rich Are Even Richer - Bloomberg View
11:16 bitcoinpete bitstein: atta boy
11:17 bitstein yourself?
11:18 bitcoinpete can't complain really
11:20 bitcoinpete "BRICS -- are due to approve the creation of a new currency reserve fund and development bank at their summit in Brazil, which starts today."
11:21 bitcoinpete fluffypony: get them to use bitcoin ;)
11:21 fluffypony that's the idea ;)
11:22 bitcoinpete brazil is having all the funz this summer
11:25 nubbins` got this email from our t-shirt supplier today
11:25 nubbins` http://imgur.com/WO0zFLb
11:25 assbot imgur: the simple image sharer
11:26 nubbins` HEY GUYS HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON A GIRL
11:26 nubbins` SO YOU CAN SHOW YOUR CUSTOMERS
11:29 fluffypony hah hah
11:29 fluffypony "skunk and her gay best friend"
11:29 fluffypony skank
11:29 fluffypony or maybe skunk
11:30 mircea_popescu !up non2
11:30 mircea_popescu !up bitstein
11:30 nubbins` seriously, what am i supposed to do with that image
11:31 mircea_popescu !up non2
11:31 bitcoinpete nubbins`: add them to the20year's posters?
11:32 mircea_popescu nubbins` that girl doesn't eat does she.
11:32 bitstein mircea_popescu: I found you extending the highest praise to me and my crew just days before I joined #b-a: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-04-2014#644307
11:32 assbot #bitcoin-assets log
11:33 nubbins` maybe she eats t-shirts
11:33 nubbins` same style shirt, different company:
11:33 nubbins` http://i.americanapparel.net/storefront/photos/zoom/serve.asp?media=bb453w_White_KellyGreen.jpg&r=us1
11:34 mircea_popescu bitstein reading the log pays huh
11:34 ThickAsThieves tshirt companies are all about teh sex now huh
11:34 mircea_popescu what exactly is the point of tshirts aside from easy access to tits ?
11:34 nubbins` gildan is still pretty corny
11:34 nubbins` mp, they're so comfy ;(
11:35 mircea_popescu wifebeaters are comfier no ?
11:36 nubbins` nah, ribbed plus seams are bigger
11:36 nubbins` a nice soft t-shirt is like being draped in jersey-knit bedsheets
11:37 mircea_popescu uh
11:37 bitcoinpete mircea_popescu: but womenz *hate* wifebeaters
11:37 mircea_popescu they do ?!
11:37 * nubbins` nods
11:37 mircea_popescu maybe if they have small boobs and ugly tattoos
11:37 bitcoinpete the clothing more than the type of dood
11:37 nubbins` they're pretty greasy
11:38 bitcoinpete men love the airy pits
11:38 bitcoinpete women just… don't grok
11:38 nubbins` well, the problem is that men who wear them are generally slobs
11:39 nubbins` and nobody wants to see a slob's gross yellow armpits
11:39 bitcoinpete the slob angle is a point
11:39 bitcoinpete it's no 3-piece
11:40 * mircea_popescu actually wears a button down shirt.
11:40 nubbins` take a well-kempt person in one, and sure. looks fine. but then, most things do
11:40 nubbins` (well-kempt!)
11:40 mircea_popescu mein kempt!
11:40 nubbins` lel
11:43 nubbins` ah, google has added btc to their currency converter
11:43 nubbins` ;;google 1btc in cad
11:43 gribble Convert Bitcoins (BTC) and Canadian Dollars (CAD): Currency ...: <http://coinmill.com/BTC_CAD.html>; CAD - Preev: <http://preev.com/btc/cad>; Bitcoin Exchange Rate - $670.15 CAD - bitcoinexchangerate.org: <http://bitcoinexchangerate.org/c/CAD>
11:43 nubbins` wait, right, doesn't work like that
11:44 bitcoinpete they're saying 673
11:44 bitcoinpete neat
11:44 nubbins` anyway. wonder where they're getting their prices from
11:44 fluffypony ;;google convert 1 btc to zar
11:44 gribble Bitcoin to South African Rand Rate — Bitcoin Live Converter — Preev: <http://preev.com/btc/zar>; Bitcoin Exchange Rate - 6663.292 ZAR - bitcoinexchangerate.org: <http://bitcoinexchangerate.org/c/ZAR>; 1 Bitcoin to South African Rand, 1 BTC to ZAR Currency Converter: <http://www.likeforex.com/currency-converter/bitcoin-btc_zar-south-african-rand.htm/1>
11:44 nubbins` you gotta actually type it into google.com ;(
11:44 fluffypony yeah
11:44 fluffypony sucks
11:44 mircea_popescu 1 Bitcoin equals 666 Canadian Dollar
11:44 mircea_popescu omg end of daez
11:45 nubbins` https://www.google.ca/#q=1btc+in+zar
11:45 assbot Google
11:46 bitcoinpete heh google doesn't even do that for gold
11:46 bitcoinpete what is bitcoin, money nao?
11:47 mircea_popescu bitcoin is cool.
11:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 300 @ 0.00272161 = 0.8165 BTC [-] {10}
11:48 mircea_popescu so do we have any adwords specialists in our midst ?
11:51 mircea_popescu http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/15/portugal-bes-rioforte-idUKL6N0PQ41920140715
↖
11:51 assbot Rioforte prepares to file for creditor protection| Reuters
11:51 mircea_popescu portugal is so gutted...
11:53 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.0026513 = 2.6513 BTC [-] {9}
11:55 nubbins` http://youtu.be/0gKWfvd-chA?t=2m39s
11:55 assbot EHX Reggie Watts explores the new 45000 multi-track looping recorder - YouTube
11:55 nubbins` amazing
11:55 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
11:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.01659994 = 0.664 BTC [-] {4}
11:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.79080888 BTC to 12`347 shares, 14504 satoshi per share
12:00 ThickAsThieves <@mircea_popescu> so do we have any adwords specialists in our midst ? /// I've notable experience, if not somewhat dated
12:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] [PAID] 2.99981269 BTC to 152`507 shares, 1967 satoshi per share
12:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 19.36579792 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1684 satoshi per share
12:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 46 @ 0.01679889 = 0.7727 BTC [+] {2}
12:04 mircea_popescu http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/10965887/People-who-claim-to-worry-about-climate-change-use-more-electricity.html
12:04 assbot People who claim to worry about climate change use more electricity - Telegraph
12:06 kakobrekla http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/15/vagina-selfie-for-3d-printers-lands-japanese-artist-in-trouble
12:06 assbot Vagina selfie for 3D printers lands Japanese artist in trouble | World news | theguardian.com
12:06 danielpbarron obviously they use more electricity! they can't use coal or gas!
12:07 danielpbarron how do i make a tounge-in-cheek emoticon?
12:07 nubbins` try using a lower-case p
12:07 ThickAsThieves japanese poon is upside down
12:07 ThickAsThieves ?
12:07 mircea_popescu depends
12:08 mircea_popescu if she;s being fingertrapped, not usually.
12:08 pankkake this matches the people I know - and not only electricity
12:09 danielpbarron lol she's got her "i'm making art" hat on
12:10 mircea_popescu "Last month it took more than 20 firefighters to free a US student who had become trapped inside a giant sculpture of a vagina in Germany."
12:10 mircea_popescu now we know how many muricans it takes to fill a cunt.
12:16 mircea_popescu http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-04/enhanced/webdr06/7/5/enhanced-buzz-wide-2242-1396863916-10.jpg
12:27 BigBitz mircea_popescu I thought you'd have a beard/shorter hair.
12:27 mircea_popescu actually i do have a beard.
12:30 mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u11gyD9cf5o check out these derps
12:30 assbot PAX East 2011 Triple Threat: The Origin of Dudebro - YouTube
12:41 ThickAsThieves network broke 1 yottahash
12:41 ThickAsThieves ;;estimate
12:41 gribble Next difficulty estimate | 17567924696.2 based on data since last change | 17552028821.8 based on data for last three days
12:41 ThickAsThieves ;;nethash
12:41 gribble 125644233.459
12:41 ThickAsThieves ;;estimate
12:41 gribble Next difficulty estimate | 17567924696.2 based on data since last change | 17552028821.8 based on data for last three days
12:41 ThickAsThieves oops
12:41 ThickAsThieves ;;bcstats
12:41 gribble Current Blocks: 310863 | Current Difficulty: 1.733631697850783E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 312479 | Next Difficulty In: 1616 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17567924696.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.33597
12:42 penguirker New blog post: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/07/15/why-list-on-mpex/
12:42 ThickAsThieves it's actually leveling off huh
12:42 bitcoinpete seems to be
12:42 ThickAsThieves bitcoins bout to get spensive
12:43 mircea_popescu prolly.
12:43 bitcoinpete how's that logic figure?
12:43 ThickAsThieves well miners already paid for their shit
12:44 ThickAsThieves they dont turn it off, they sell higher
12:44 bitcoinpete a ok
12:44 ThickAsThieves mining adds like what 3500 coins each day?
12:44 mircea_popescu ;;calc 3600*24/512*25
12:44 gribble 4218.75
12:49 Xplosionist ;;calc 6*24*25
12:49 gribble 3600
12:49 Xplosionist mircea_popescu: Where did you get your numbers? I just did "6 per hour", which is of course only the theory, not the reality.
12:49 mircea_popescu Xplosionist it's a joke. atc has 512 second blocks.
12:50 Xplosionist mircea_popescu: Okay. I just "didn't get it". ;-)
12:52 mircea_popescu !up Rassah
12:52 Rassah Heard you guys were talking about us in here :)
12:52 mircea_popescu so i am listening to this limp bizkit thing. is it like some sort of wannabe offspring, 20 years later ?
12:52 mircea_popescu Rassah who's us ?
12:53 Rassah Mycelium
12:53 mircea_popescu !s mycelium
12:53 assbot 23 results for 'mycelium' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mycelium
12:53 Rassah specifically kickstarter projects, Entropy, etc.
12:53 mircea_popescu kickstarter projects are common lulz fuel here ya
12:53 Rassah !s Entropy
12:53 assbot 168 results for 'Entropy' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Entropy
12:53 bitcoinpete so are "entropy generators"
12:53 mircea_popescu that's prolly mostly the physical concept.
12:54 bitcoinpete hey Rassah
12:54 mircea_popescu ;;gettrust assbot Rassah
12:54 gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Rassah: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Rassah | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Rassah | Rated since: Fri Jun 3 23:49:22 2011
12:54 Rassah Hey bitcoinpete
12:54 ThickAsThieves even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg
↖
12:54 mircea_popescu ;;rate Rassah 1 Old timer.
12:54 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Rassah has been recorded.
12:54 mircea_popescu Rassah you can self voice, pm assbot !up if id'd with gribble
12:54 bitcoinpete Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."
12:55 Rassah yes. I'm one of the 7 or so treasurers...
12:56 ThickAsThieves Leprechauns exist!
12:57 mircea_popescu http://www.grimoireassemblyforge.com/dudebro2/site/ << apparently this is going to be a scroller.
12:57 assbot Dudebro II
12:57 ThickAsThieves http://imgur.com/a/Yhgvm
12:57 assbot Bitcoin Graphics - Imgur
12:58 rithm 7 treasurers!
12:59 Rassah Woah. I haven't authenticated in over a year. Shows how often I visit IRC :p
13:01 ThickAsThieves "Realcoin, therefore, represents an opportunity to speculate with fiat currency for the first time. If you have reason to believe its price will move for or against a digital currency on the market, now you can take advantage of that. "
13:01 fluffypony ugh gross
13:02 ThickAsThieves guys it will be so awesome to be able to speculate on digital currency!
13:02 Rassah Although I support Realcoin, that statement is a bit... reduntant? Useless? Price moves for or against relative to something else, so instead of using Realcoin, you can just as easily use that something else...
13:03 ThickAsThieves why do you support it?
13:03 ThickAsThieves what does it really bring to the table?
13:03 mircea_popescu Rassah the statement is typical of a desperate play for relevancy coming out of the sort of idiots that imagine claims matter.
13:03 ThickAsThieves a ripple alternative?
13:03 fluffypony nothing
13:04 Rassah A dollar that trades directly on the bitcoin blockchain, allowing for atomic exchanges between bicoin and dollar-value asset
13:04 Rassah I have doubts that banks and US reglators will allow it to happen though... but Brock does have some influence
13:04 ThickAsThieves you mean exchange like already happen on Bitstamp etc?
13:04 ThickAsThieves happens
13:04 Rassah No, I mean exchage that happens on #bitcoin-otc, but without need for escrow
13:04 ThickAsThieves i put dollars in, i get bitstampdollars
13:05 ThickAsThieves oh so you mean launderable dollars?
13:05 mircea_popescu Rassah what do you mean "without the need for escrow" lol.
13:06 Rassah #bitcoin-otc: you send a promise of dollars, the seller escrows bitcoins. Dollars take time to get to the seller. Once they do, escrow releases coins to the buyer.
13:06 ThickAsThieves so with escrow
13:07 Rassah Realcoin: you agree to a trade with a bicoin sellet. You create a ransaction that trades one of the other. The trade is signed and happens at the same time
13:07 mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel
13:07 mircea_popescu it's nonsense on a fucking stick, bitcoin and fiat still have different hardness.
13:07 Rassah sorry about missing keys and typos.
13:07 mircea_popescu i can clawback any usd anywhere by simply sueing.
13:07 mircea_popescu this is why people don't btc to paypal directly, and haven't, since 2011.
13:07 Rassah How can you clawback digital currency?
13:08 mircea_popescu the fact that B. Fucktard P. wasn't here in 2011, because he was too busy blowing 13year olds in back alleys
13:08 mircea_popescu doesn't mean he's excused from reading the 2011 logs.
13:08 mircea_popescu on the contrary : he has to read them twice.
13:08 mircea_popescu Rassah fiat does not become "digital currency" just because you'd like it to.
13:08 ThickAsThieves the logs are like chapters of the book they get punished to read in Anathem
13:09 Rassah I'm assuming that cryptocurrency that exists on Mastercin is transfered with private key signatures, and is permanent and complete upon transfer, same as every other cryptocurrency. No chargebacks
13:09 ThickAsThieves they gave you 6 chapters!?
13:09 mircea_popescu Rassah how do i get my actual dollars ?
13:09 ThickAsThieves :)
13:10 Rassah According to Brock, initially trough his own bank/exchange, and hopefully eventually through whatever banks support his system. So maybe yours. Since banks make money by charging fees to transfer money around, it may be difficult to convince them to add a system that lets them transfer their own dollars for little to no fee though
13:10 ThickAsThieves the only difference between realcoin and bitstampdollar is you dont have to use bitstamp to trade it, but you still need realcoin to render those dollars eventually
13:10 mircea_popescu Rassah so i sue his "bank/exchange", have its accounts locked.
13:11 Rassah There's is another difference. Bitstant desn't have the resources, or even interest, in getting their Bitstamp dollars used by other banks
13:11 mircea_popescu what happened to the "escrow" now ?
13:11 Rassah *Bitstamp... >.<
13:11 ThickAsThieves but what bank would ever want bitstampdollars?
13:11 Rassah So, has it been long settled that we don't need a distributed exchange? I missed that memo...
13:12 mircea_popescu Rassah you've missed a lot of things.
13:12 nubbins` i like it when i tell people their artwork isn't big enough, and they just scale it up in photoshop
13:12 Rassah ThickAsThieves: That's kind of my point too
13:12 danielpbarron realcoin is not relevant in a post-fiat world; why even waste time on such a notion that only solves the "problem" of mass adoption
13:13 Rassah From the way he described it, I think he only wants it to be a temporary stepping stone to make USD to BTC transition easer, and doesn't expect it to last very long
13:13 danielpbarron if I think BTC is about to go down, I have local associates who would probably buy it off me today
13:13 ThickAsThieves nubbins` http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/resize8/ I remember back in like 2001 using this to battle such idiocy
13:13 assbot Perfect Resize 8 - onOne Software
13:13 ThickAsThieves it took forever to process!
13:13 ThickAsThieves uses fractals
13:13 Rassah Mircea, care to fill me in on other thins I've missed? The "we don't need distributed xchanges ay more" is surprising considering MtGox died just 6 months ago, and BTC-e is questionable
13:13 danielpbarron Rassah, right; my point exactly.. you can't force Bitcoin addoption; the common man will use Bitcoin when he is FORCED TO by the new economic reality
13:14 mircea_popescu kakobrekla can bitbet search also have order by weight added ?
13:14 ThickAsThieves rassah, you can't remove trust from the sytem, you can only move it to where you prefer
13:15 mircea_popescu Rassah well, i linked you to the log. thing is, this right here is the hot core of btc. you will have to simply read the logs.
13:15 Rassah ThickAsThieves: Trust in large regulated and audited body, supported by and in partnership with numerous banks > trust in some anonymous stranger on the internet
13:15 mircea_popescu that'd be wrong, actually.
13:15 mircea_popescu trust in government < any alternative < people < otc people.
13:16 Rassah that's true too
13:16 mircea_popescu there can't be a too in there.
13:16 mircea_popescu they're contradictory.
13:16 mircea_popescu the large audited regulated body === government.
13:17 Rassah otc with 50+ ratings V.S. bank with licenses and audits? (http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=pirateat40)
13:17 princessnell Rassah, this might help: http://theumlaut.com/2014/06/10/bitcoin-is-great-but-it-wont-fix-our-monkey-brains/
13:17 assbot Bitcoin Is Great, But It Won’t Fix Our Monkey Brains | The mlaut
13:18 Rassah I would trust an established banking institution more than an OTC trader with 2 or 3 ratings. I would trust an established OTC trader more than a bank
13:18 Rassah it's not black and wite
13:19 mircea_popescu this simply shows you're not well connected, and so mcdonalds level services (ie, bare minimum) are the best you see yourself aspiring to.
13:19 mircea_popescu had you spend the past year or w/e cultivating irc, instead of wasting time on forums/skype/etc, you'd be in the position of lolling at the notion of a fiat bank.
13:20 Rassah I'm pretty well connected. Just not on IRC :)
13:20 mircea_popescu then you're not well connected.
13:20 Rassah Most of the people I'm connected with don't have time for it.
13:20 mircea_popescu this is just another way of saying they don't matter, you're aware.
13:20 Rassah princessnell: love your nick btw
13:20 danielpbarron Rassah, i think this is relevant http://trilema.com/2012/fact-of-the-matter-is-the-infrastructure-was-not-ready/
13:20 assbot Fact of the matter is, the infrastructure was not ready pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
13:20 ThickAsThieves or that they are poor
13:21 Rassah Oh. You're all millionaires here?...
13:21 mircea_popescu nope.
13:21 mircea_popescu some are billionaires.
13:21 mircea_popescu and we also got some camhos.
13:22 * danielpbarron is one of the elite few with > 1 BTC
13:23 ThickAsThieves mycelium is doing well though, right?
13:23 mircea_popescu i can't recall what that does.
13:23 ThickAsThieves altwallet
13:23 ThickAsThieves well
13:23 ThickAsThieves bitcoin wallet
13:23 mircea_popescu o.
13:23 ThickAsThieves but yknow
13:24 ThickAsThieves they did a trippy promo vid too
13:24 mircea_popescu Rassah so whats the uvp there, convenience or something ?
13:24 mircea_popescu !up chetty
13:24 ThickAsThieves "We help people and companies
13:24 ThickAsThieves to store, transfer and exchange value.
13:24 ThickAsThieves Seamlessly, without numerous middlemen cutting off a big chunk
13:24 ThickAsThieves of our profits and savings. It's our money, let's keep it simple."
13:24 Rassah uvp?
13:24 ThickAsThieves says mycelium
13:24 chetty hey, ty MP
13:25 ThickAsThieves Bitcoincard, wasnt that a Gox thing?
13:25 ThickAsThieves https://mycelium.com/
13:25 assbot Home :: Mycelium
13:25 Rassah Not at all
13:25 chetty <Rassah> Oh. You're all millionaires here?... whats a millionaire? why is stuff being measured in dollars?
13:25 mircea_popescu Rassah unique value proposition.
13:25 ThickAsThieves i recall them having a credit card gizmo with buttons on it
13:25 ThickAsThieves maybe it was justa 2fa
13:26 Rassah Bitcoincard started as a mesh network based idea for a text messaging device. Then the gy who was developing it found out that it's perfect for a bitcoin wallet, ad switched directions, forming Mycelium
13:26 ThickAsThieves chetty indeed!
13:26 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves o you actually tested this ?
13:26 ThickAsThieves tested mycelium? i think i installed it somewhere
13:26 ThickAsThieves havent really used it tho
13:26 Rassah What's the UVP of what? Mycelium wallet?
13:26 mircea_popescu Rassah so it's a half-implementation of bitcoin-qt, doing only the wallet part ?
13:27 ThickAsThieves is bitcoincard shipped?
13:27 Rassah Bitcoincard is credit card sized device, cheap, flexible, and uses 300meter range radio for communication
13:27 ThickAsThieves https://mycelium.com/assets/img/bitcoincard.jpg
13:27 Rassah No, we just got the prototypes in the office a few weeks ago
13:28 ThickAsThieves asciilifeform will hack it for you
13:28 Rassah First version of Bitcincard will just be a hardware wallet. Later version, once we get newer battery technology implemented (I think carbon?) it will do full mesh networking, meaning you'll be able to use Bitcoin without need for inernet, and if charged with solar, infrastructue of any kind
13:28 ThickAsThieves though he may be bogged down shipping cardano
13:29 ThickAsThieves mesh over what network?
13:29 mircea_popescu well, mesh bitcoin wallet could be useful.
13:29 Rassah mesh over it's own radio
13:29 mircea_popescu uh.
13:29 mircea_popescu no bluetooth with other devices around ?
13:30 Rassah No. Possibly RFID to send signed transactions out of the device
13:30 mircea_popescu that'll need a lot of saturation to be usable.
13:30 Rassah Keep in mind, this thing, before it's laminated, is as thin as a piece of paper. Battery included. (and all flexible, including the display). Not much room or power for bluetoth
13:31 Rassah yes, it will
13:31 ThickAsThieves well considering we cant even mesh wifi
13:31 ThickAsThieves ...
13:32 Rassah I beieve the idea is to get merchants to use a "terminal" or sorts to use our cards with, which will provide some of the mesh. Once the cards are done, we'll probably also sell solar powered radio repeaters, with no screens or walet, which should make those dirt cheap too. Then you just glue them to tops of things
13:32 Rassah For now the main product is the Android Wallet though. And that Entropy thing we're finishing up
13:33 ThickAsThieves are you one of the angel-invested startups?
13:34 Rassah What? How so?
13:34 Rassah Oh
13:34 ThickAsThieves i just mean how lots of bitcoin biz are getting early investors and making coindesk about it
13:34 Rassah No, the owner who came up with the Bitcoincard idea, and started Mycelium for bitcoin stuff, is some super-rich Russian dude
13:35 ThickAsThieves cool, that war tanks guys?
13:35 Rassah He's part investor in http://www.neftvodka.com/neftvodka/en/
13:35 assbot This website is exclusively for people over 18 years of age. | NEFT Vodka
13:35 ThickAsThieves this is what i was thinking of http://na.wargaming.net/
13:35 assbot Wargaming.net
13:36 Rassah No, I'm prettu syre not
13:36 ThickAsThieves vodka in a barrel is acceptable
13:36 Rassah Steel oil drum
13:36 ThickAsThieves neat
13:37 Rassah We are raising money for Entropy through Indiegogo because this was an idea that our devs came up with, and wanted to get it done regardless of our owner's financial input.
13:37 Rassah He thinks if it won't make him a million ad get him a fancy sports car, it's not worth bothering with
13:37 ThickAsThieves so he liked the idea, but not enough to fund it?
13:37 ThickAsThieves heh
13:37 Rassah but we think the idea is neat, chea, and worthwhile
13:38 Rassah *cheap
13:38 ThickAsThieves itll at least make reddit happy
13:38 mircea_popescu <Rassah> yes, it will << to understand each other, we're talking millions of units in users hands before the 1st unit shipped becomes usable.
13:38 mircea_popescu this means millions of units shipped the same day, launch day.
13:38 mircea_popescu this is the sort of thing a megacorp a la sony can still botch.
13:39 Rassah <Rassah> yes, it will is reply to <mircea_popescu> well, mesh bitcoin wallet could be useful.
13:40 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves rassah is chiefly famous for having been an early adopter, then having bought bitcoin out of some sort of a retirement fund w/o the so's permission, right before the climb to 8 or something like that. then sold out and well, one of the first people to pay their mortgage "because bitcoin".
13:40 Rassah Mesh network wallet, whether it is made my us or someone else, will be very useful, especally in places where electricity and internet/cell phone is spotty or unreliable (most of the world?)
13:40 Rassah Mircea, absolutely not. That's not me
13:40 ThickAsThieves mp thx for background
13:41 ThickAsThieves oh
13:41 ThickAsThieves hehe
13:41 ThickAsThieves Rassah you can be like Tesla and make a big deal, say you are open-sourcing your mesh network tech
13:42 ThickAsThieves let any device on the standard
13:42 ThickAsThieves then you get your mesh
13:42 mircea_popescu Rassah what, srsly ?
13:42 ThickAsThieves make it talk to phones and such
13:42 ThickAsThieves like mp said
13:44 Rassah I was an early adopter, I bought bicoin usin my OWN retirement funds (i.e. money slated to go to IRA and savings every week ended up going into Bitcoin). Then I borrowed some more money from our HELOC to buy a $30k BLF miner, I never preordered, waiting for them to ship, by February 2013 they still didn't ship, so I sold those bitcins, paid off the HELOC, and bought this http://imgur.com/ZGjrh4e instead. I bought at $8, and sold
13:44 assbot Bitcoin Prius - Imgur
13:44 Rassah at $22, thinking "bubble." I was wrong on that, but my car had 250,000+ miles on it and was almost dead, so *shrug*. I have never sold out any of my other coins. As far as anyone knows, I have lost them all in a boating accident, or when I accidentally dropped my USB stick into an airplane toilet and flushed it out over the Atlantic
13:44 rithm so mpex had a raid controller failure
13:44 Rassah Paying my mortgage off with bitcoin would be very stupid, because mortgage rate is 4%, and bitcoin rate is ThroughTheMoon%
13:44 rithm someone linked me to the blog and i read paranoia and/or a failed raid controller
13:45 rithm maybe i skimmed
13:45 mircea_popescu Rassah ah ok.
13:45 Rassah And, btw, I was buying when it was $6, then $16, then $22, and then continued bying all the wa from $30 to $2.50, because I understood and believed in the syste
13:45 rithm hi rassah
13:45 jcpham i hide
13:45 Rassah hi rithm
13:45 mircea_popescu so how much btc was the prius ?
13:45 Rassah hi jcpham
13:46 Rassah Conveniently, the Prius was *exactly* 1,000BTC. Makes it easy to calculate it's present BTC value
↖
13:46 mircea_popescu rithm both, really.
13:46 mircea_popescu kakobrekla see ? he got a 1k btc prius. beats your golf cart.
13:46 pankkake eheh, twice kakobrekla's car!
13:46 Rassah btw, the only people here I know are Mircea...
13:46 rithm so clandestine three-letter agencies dumping the firewire, supermagnets, and a failed raid controller
13:46 danielpbarron damn that's an expensive way to look like you care about the environment
13:47 mircea_popescu lol
13:47 Rassah I don't give a shit about the environment. I bought it to save money
13:47 kakobrekla yes im a cheap bastard.
13:47 Rassah which it does wonderfully
13:47 mircea_popescu coulda bought 3 teslas, duct tape them together and just go everywhere and snub people
13:47 ThickAsThieves i just got a prius as a hand-me-down
13:47 mircea_popescu "see i r care about environment 3x more than you do"
13:47 rithm oh are we having the conversation about "how x could be different if only i"
13:48 mircea_popescu rithm less than a house still.
13:48 danielpbarron i don't think a 1`000 BTC prius can ever get a ROI
13:48 rithm that's time. anything you think you might have lost in currency conversion, it's really just time
13:48 rithm if the 1000 btc were free?
13:48 ThickAsThieves maybe he uses the money he saves on gas to buy more bitcoins
13:48 mircea_popescu (for the newfags, this "less than a house" thing is a reference to a 2012 discussion re jcpham's investment in pirate. he had less thna a house, more than a car there)
13:49 Rassah What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too
13:49 rithm $7500 principal plus whatever zny interest pirate math was owed
13:49 rithm mp speaks the truth
13:49 rithm *zany
13:49 mircea_popescu rithm so like... 498574389759347 btc ?
13:49 rithm go away
13:50 mircea_popescu i go away next week 7% more ?
13:50 kakobrekla Rassah should have got a golf.
13:50 rithm i'd have to dig up screenshots
13:50 rithm 1600btc and change
13:50 rithm give or take
13:50 mircea_popescu rithm right. plus interest.... 45096450968045 btc
13:50 Rassah Plus I like driving a cell phone on wheels :D
13:50 rithm it was a row in some mysql databse
13:50 rithm it could be anything
13:50 rithm it was not mine though
13:51 mircea_popescu Rassah i just did the math, i spent more on camhos this month than your ho nda took every 5-6.
13:51 kakobrekla is thats why you hide these days?
13:51 mircea_popescu kakobrekla i think he just wants to sing these days.,
13:51 rithm i like rithm more
13:51 Rassah Oh, also got a 1,500 Watt inverter for it that can power quite a bit of my house. I can power that thing for about a week on a 10 gallon tank of gas. Conveient for camping, power outages, or GTOFing
13:51 rithm i delightfully detached from that now
13:51 rithm that was years ago
13:52 rithm why are we bringing up old shit
13:52 rithm Trendon stole my time from me
13:52 mircea_popescu Rassah 1.5 watt inverter is kinda low neh ? cause of inductive capacity, you can't really run a fridge ron it
13:52 Rassah Mircea, you are screwing up one of my bitcoin defences
13:52 rithm and he's broke and he can't pay it back
13:52 kakobrekla i got 3kw for 500bux a couple of months ago
13:52 Rassah Trolls claim bitcoin is used for childporn, I point out that that's not true because no one pays for porn any more. Yet you do
13:53 mircea_popescu Rassah it's moar complex than that.
13:53 mircea_popescu i just buy souls.
13:53 ThickAsThieves theyre in love
13:53 pankkake of course people pay for porn
13:53 rithm well childporn is secret and hides
13:53 rithm from what i hear
13:53 Rassah Not really
13:53 Rassah from what I hear
13:53 mircea_popescu princessnell http://trilema.com/2014/i-wasnt-going-to-actually-post-this-but/
13:53 assbot I wasn’t going to actually post this, but… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
13:53 rithm xvideos and pornhub have a terrible selection based on the search i just did for childporn
13:53 Rassah Being on a tor site doesn't eally mea hiding, does it?
13:54 danielpbarron there is some creep in -otc that pays for a subscription to beastiality porn or something
13:54 mircea_popescu rithm what is it, mostly brazil team ?
13:54 rithm lololol
13:54 Rassah *realy
13:54 mircea_popescu danielpbarron is that the one with feminists ?
13:54 chetty http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10968316/Germanys-plan-to-take-on-NSA-Block-eavesdroppers-with-classical-music-and-use-typewriters.html
13:54 assbot Germany's plan to take on NSA: Block eavesdroppers with classical music, and use typewriters - Telegraph
13:54 Rassah hmm... I wonder what it would take for LocalTrader to compete with bitcoin-otc?...
13:54 pankkake danielpbarron: well custom or niche porn is definitely something people will always pay for
13:55 danielpbarron mircea_popescu, idk; who is that? I'm talking about Wolf`
13:55 pankkake but still, it's not like pro porn production is slowing down, is it?
13:55 mircea_popescu the people backing otc to move there. which won't happen really, because people don't move unless the platform fucks up majorily.
13:55 rithm yeah that dude is fubar
13:55 rithm `Wolf
13:55 Rassah chetty: It's Germany. They would have a much better result if they blocked it with deathmetal
13:55 mircea_popescu pankkake it's not, mostly because the girls like to do it, the photogs like to do it, everyone likes to do it.
13:55 mircea_popescu but it's not really making money anymore.
13:55 mircea_popescu <Rassah> chetty: It's Germany. They would have a much better result if they blocked it with deathmetal << WORD.
13:56 rithm the nicer your camera is, the quicker the clothes come off, but ymmv
13:56 penguirker New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/i-wasnt-going-to-actually-post-this-but/
13:56 pankkake it makes enough
13:56 pankkake and of course they like to do it
13:56 mircea_popescu yeah well, shoe shining makes enough.
13:57 mircea_popescu https://bitcointa.lk/threads/my-2-000-btc-is-all-gone.84054/ << o look, intel found it.
13:57 assbot My 2,000 BTC is all gone :( | Bitcointa.lk
13:59 ThickAsThieves nice
14:00 pankkake there was (still is?) a porn kickstarter, but most of the things there were boring. the only one I voted for didn't go to funding stage
14:00 ThickAsThieves mp doesnt think cats can love now, when was the last time you were hugged?
14:00 mircea_popescu ironically i just peeled out of a hug to read this.
14:01 ThickAsThieves excellent
14:01 mircea_popescu this internet psychology thing may have some limitations.
14:02 mircea_popescu but anyway. ever seen a cat sitting on its master's grave ?
14:03 ThickAsThieves not sure thats the measure of ability to love
14:03 pankkake cats are psychopats
14:03 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves what measure you'd propose ?
14:04 ThickAsThieves kinda loaded question i think
14:05 mircea_popescu o.O
14:05 ThickAsThieves i suppose you could chemically test it
14:05 mircea_popescu it can't be a loaded question. it gets immunity, because it's the strict followup to your protest.
14:06 ThickAsThieves my protest is that you require notable mourning
14:06 ThickAsThieves which i'm not sure is always required for love
14:06 ThickAsThieves and i'm also pretty sure cats will mourn for their own
14:09 Rassah <mircea_popescu> Ah, forgot about that one. Sorry, I was trolling the bitcoin trolls, and explaining things to any alphabet soup agencies that may be listening.
14:10 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves does your position reduce to "cats love you too but you'll never know ?" cause i could argue the same of dildos.
14:10 Rassah Oh, no wait. The 2,000 btc that was all gone was the BTC that went to pay for my Prius and pay off the HELOC. Sorry, got confused
14:11 Rassah but I purposefully worded it in the OP as if I had lost it all
14:11 kakobrekla to throw off the FBI.
14:11 Rassah Still reading "bitcoin-is-great-but-it-wont-fix-our-monkey-brains". Long ass article with lots of sie-links...
14:11 ThickAsThieves no, more that cats express love in more limited way than humans do
14:12 ThickAsThieves loved as a provider or protector or alpha etc
14:12 princessnell mircea_popescu re: blog. US rebellion day was especially bleak this year. so many patriots in love with a system that despises and exploits them. defending the ghouls that have consumed and spit out their culture.
14:12 mircea_popescu Rassah the author is this smart cookie.
14:12 princessnell how do you do
14:13 Rassah Not Andrea Castillo?
14:13 mircea_popescu yeah.
14:13 pankkake so gold diggers are in love?
14:13 mircea_popescu pankkake in a more limited way than sluts.
14:13 ThickAsThieves lol
14:14 pankkake sluts love the/your dick, at least
14:14 ThickAsThieves i think calling a cat a goldigger might be a tad off the mark
14:14 mircea_popescu yeah, they don't really like to have to dig.
14:14 pankkake mind you, I really like cats, and I wish I could have one
14:15 danielpbarron http://i.imgur.com/q0ELQit.png
14:18 nubbins` ThickAsThieves, crazy software. probably not as slow these days with the abundance of cheap ram
14:19 nubbins` danielpbarron, it only takes 1btc to be elite these days? what the fuck does that make the rest of us?
14:20 nubbins` also, i may have a lead on a poster job for a music festival ghostface killah is playing at
14:20 Rassah So what kind of important, well connected, people who matter hang out on here?
14:20 nubbins` trying not to get too excited ;0
14:20 danielpbarron there can only ever be 21 million of such individuals; that's pretty elite vs 7 billion total population
14:21 mircea_popescu danielpbarron nubbins` is canadian, he has no representation of people density.
14:21 Rassah whom, if I had met, I'd be laughing at the notion of a fiat bank? (mind you, I hang out wth the likes of Kody Wilson and Amir Taki, too)
14:21 danielpbarron ew
14:22 Rassah I'm just wondering what the difference is between this IRC, and the Reddit/Skype/etc that's supposedly worse
14:22 mircea_popescu Rassah well, here's a point : reddit/skype/etc still wonder why atc is a thing.
14:22 mircea_popescu while everyone's tried to make altcoins and failed ever since forever.
14:22 Rassah otc?
14:22 mircea_popescu atc.
14:22 Rassah I'm wondering what thing atc is
14:23 pankkake why would you consider Altcoin a success?
14:23 mircea_popescu pankkake because its price graph looks exactly opposite of doge&the rest of the scamfarm ?
14:23 Rassah atc? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Touch_of_Class_(band)
14:23 assbot A Touch of Class (band) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
14:23 pankkake Anus Then Cunt
14:24 mircea_popescu Rassah https://bitcointa.lk/threads/sha256-altcoin.250774/page-22
14:24 assbot [SHA256] Altcoin | Page 22 | Bitcointa.lk
14:24 pankkake atc's market cap is pretty small, there's no real over-valuation I suppose
14:25 mircea_popescu you say this as if it were a bad thing.
14:25 pankkake no, it's a good thing, but I wondered if you thought so too
14:25 kakobrekla being dead is better than pretending of being alive :)
14:25 mircea_popescu pankkake course i do.
14:25 pankkake I don't think any altcoin should have a market cap >$10,000 or so
14:25 pankkake well that clears something up
14:25 mircea_popescu kakobrekla btw, i saw coffee and ciggarettes coupla days back. pretty good actually.
14:25 kakobrekla is not bad.
14:26 mircea_popescu pankkake twas clear tho, i had said so before, and dropped buncha other hints around it.
14:26 Rassah I'm not sure if Altcoin is a joke or serious, reading is description...
14:26 Rassah It sounds sarcastic
14:26 kakobrekla serious joke.
14:27 ThickAsThieves serious as a moustache
14:27 pankkake Rassah: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-bernankoin-the-coin-not-evil-according-to-paul-krugman-dl-winqt-v1-3-now.213856/
14:27 assbot [ANN] Bernankoin the Coin Not Evil according to Paul Krugman DL WINQT v1.3 NOW | Bitcointa.lk
14:27 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves lulz of all time : chick put a magic marker winking eye next to her nipple and moustaches on both tits. not said a word.
14:28 Rassah So I think "reddit/skype/etc still wonder why atc is a thing" should have been " reddit/skype/etc don't even know atc is a thing."
14:28 nubbins` mircea_popescu did you see the Iggy Pop / Tom Waits bit in c&c?
14:28 mircea_popescu Rassah there's a lot teh soft cloud of derps circling btc don't know about.
14:28 mircea_popescu nubbins` yup
14:28 nubbins` rich stuff
14:29 nubbins` "...actually, just call me iggy" "so Jim..."
14:29 mircea_popescu !up jdoubleu
14:29 mircea_popescu they suck at acting, too.
14:29 Rassah So, I'm still confused I guess
14:29 nubbins` waits is actually a pretty good actor. they were both hamming it up in that scene
14:29 nubbins` he played the devil in that Dr Parnassus movie
14:29 Rassah By the way, anyone going to be in Chicago this weekend?
14:30 ThickAsThieves rassah wants to know why any of us really matter
14:30 nubbins` i really matter because i'm moderately well-connected in the wot
14:30 Rassah <ThickAsThieves> No I DOn't
14:30 ThickAsThieves sry
14:30 nubbins` now, tbh, this only matters for some definitions of "matter"
14:30 ThickAsThieves i'm confused about what you are confused about then
14:30 mircea_popescu Rassah you got autocomplete in your client right ?
14:30 Rassah I want to know why Mircea claimed that people here are important, and people outside of here are not
14:31 Rassah Mircea: I don't know
14:31 mircea_popescu a, that's easy. because mircea is a rich bastard, and that means he can claim anything he fucking feels like, then make it so.
14:31 mircea_popescu try it : type mir hit tab, see what happens.
14:31 Rassah Specifically, what types of connections that you can make here, and why are they better than connection on Reddit/Skype/etc
14:31 ThickAsThieves miragine war
14:31 Rassah mir
14:32 mircea_popescu well that didn't work.
14:32 Rassah n s
14:32 nubbins` he said tab, not enter
14:32 ThickAsThieves i did!
14:32 Rassah mircea_popescu: oh
14:32 * nubbins` golf claps
14:32 mircea_popescu tab is like enter...
14:32 Rassah I was looking for any key
14:32 ThickAsThieves there are connections on reddit?
14:32 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves taleb is on reddit.
14:32 Rassah I have made a few, yes
14:32 nubbins` it's not dissimilar to enter
14:32 princessnell Rassah you'll get it when you keep coming back
14:33 mircea_popescu btw, anyone got that saffron chick's youtube at the ready ?
14:33 nubbins` wait, so taleb didn't take the bait from that really super cringey video you paid for?
14:33 ThickAsThieves lol
14:33 Rassah But will I ever see any of you in real life? Like, speaking of which, is anyone here going to Chicago?
14:33 mircea_popescu nubbins` nope :( he revenge-joined reddit instead.
14:33 nubbins` bastard
14:33 mircea_popescu hm whatr was it
14:33 mircea_popescu $conference
14:33 nubbins` gotta admit, i had to stop watching it
14:33 empyex mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 9 months and 2 days. Estimated cost today: 2.11806614 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )
14:33 assbot The conference, third edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
14:33 ThickAsThieves rassah, i go to the amsterdam conferences, otherwise we go to mp's conference
14:34 nubbins` hey, i'll be in amsterdam soon
14:34 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves the funny thing is... you promised liveblog. then blog. then it fizzled. then fluffypony went to some derpference, promised liveblog. then blog. then it fizzled.
14:34 Rassah I was at the Amsterdam one on September
14:34 mircea_popescu im starting to think like there's no content to be had or something
14:34 fluffypony mircea_popescu: I did Twitter instead of liveblog because of lack of stuff to talk about live
14:34 ThickAsThieves i have like 20 draft articles
14:34 ThickAsThieves just hooked on trading lately
14:35 mircea_popescu fluffypony well yeah but sadly i killed andreas, so... i got nuttin'.
14:35 fluffypony lol
14:35 Rassah ThickAsThieves: If Amsterdam, do you know Moe Levin?
14:36 mircea_popescu nubbins` srsly, why are they so cringe-y ?
14:36 ThickAsThieves i do not know him personally
14:36 ThickAsThieves i know who you mena though
14:36 nubbins` mp i'm not sure, i guess generally people with a lack of social skills both end up cringey and spending a lot of time at the computer
14:36 nubbins` add tits, and voila
14:36 nubbins` cringey camgirls
14:37 nubbins` seriously, the fifth word out of her mouth was "fantastical"
14:37 nubbins` and she was talking about an intelligent person's brain
14:37 Rassah ThickAsThieves: Damn. I'm wondering if the tightly woven net of connections here is in any way linked with the tightly woven net of connections I am involved with outside of here...
14:37 pankkake shorter vids would have been better I think
14:37 mircea_popescu Rassah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yrlh3E_qu4 << there. how does htis look to you ?
14:37 assbot Mission: #bitcoin-assets - YouTube
14:37 pankkake as there wasn't much to say, so it ends up being weird
14:37 ThickAsThieves Rassah, not by me
14:38 mircea_popescu pankkake i did take it from 5 to 3. how short!
14:38 ThickAsThieves i probly annoyed people you know at one time or another, but im not connected to em
14:38 mircea_popescu but maybe we should actually write scripts for the girls.
14:38 Rassah mircea_popescu: finally finished your article. Nothing I disagree with. Much of that is discussed in private by some of the attendees, who otherwise put on a faux public face
14:38 mircea_popescu Rassah faux public faces eh ? myeah.
14:39 Rassah you don't tak about assassination market based disincentives in public, no
14:39 mircea_popescu i talk about whatever the fuck i happen to feel like talking, why the hell not.
14:39 ThickAsThieves thats why reddit doesnt adore you
14:40 Rassah Some people are public company representatives that still rely on sales and not making politicians freak the fuck out :)
14:40 mircea_popescu yes. and their companies added together are pretty much almost equal mpex.
14:40 mircea_popescu which apparently doesn't even need to be online.
14:40 pankkake I think being right when they are wrong is what's annoys them
14:40 Rassah Which is fun to do if you aleady don' give a fuck about things, but is something o keep in check if public work is still to be done
14:41 pankkake reddit made it ok to hide things that hurt your feelings
14:41 mircea_popescu pankkake the theory i was happy with held that they worship the holders of trappings of power. ie, only the powerless.
14:41 Rassah By he way, wat does mpex do/make? I just realized I never really looked into that... I guess I should
14:41 mircea_popescu everyone else is scarydangerous.
14:42 mircea_popescu Rassah makes a few hundred to a few ks a month, valued a few 100ks to a mil.
14:42 fluffypony well at the moment mpex is the king of being offline :-P
14:42 pankkake when it's online, it trades itself
14:42 fluffypony and the owner keeps getting extradited from country to country
14:42 fluffypony when he's not threatening to kill religious leaders
14:42 Rassah Oh, yeah, an exchange. Sorry, forgot
14:43 mircea_popescu speaking of which, i wonder when the first president rape occurs. now that women can be presidents.
14:43 Rassah The longest running exchange that has not collapsed like every single other asset exchange has
14:44 Rassah It's been a while since I have been in the anals of bitcointalk, so I forgot. Please fogive me Mircea
14:44 mircea_popescu lol wait, what'd you do ?
14:45 ThickAsThieves sounds like he got rich buying bitcoins and now makes bitcoin products for reddit
14:45 Rassah I forgot what MPEx was
14:45 mircea_popescu lol not like it's a crime
14:46 Rassah mircea_popescu: btw, ironically, I thinkyou and Brock Pierce of Realcoin would get along well together...
14:46 fluffypony Rassah: mircea_popescu isn't into little boys
14:46 fluffypony so I don't think that's a good match
14:46 ThickAsThieves what was the quote?
14:46 Rassah neither is Brock, so that's not what I meant
14:47 mircea_popescu fluffypony i'm very tolerant tho.
14:47 ThickAsThieves theyre like children, you wanna love them all
14:47 mircea_popescu Rassah well so what did you mean ?
14:48 pankkake isn't realcoin the stupidest thing ever?
14:48 benkay <nubbins`> wait, so taleb didn't take the bait from that really super cringey video you paid for? // 30 second doses were all i could handle
14:48 Rassah Brock is not as insultingly direct as you, but the best way to describe him is chaos. He has a shitton of money, and his goal in life is to create as much chaos and clusterfuck as possible using that money. Including investing in things that compete directly against his own companies and prior investments.
14:49 ThickAsThieves so he also needs a hug
14:49 Rassah That's partially why Realcoin, too. Get the pot stirring, maybe someone will get upset and make something better, maybe not, likely it won't go anywhere (he doesn't think it will last may years), but as long as he had fun, he does't give a shit
14:49 mircea_popescu benkay why was it cringe-y ?
14:49 pankkake if you want to transfer USDs tied to a counterparty, at least use Ripple where you can have more than one central counterparty
14:50 benkay poor improvisation.
14:50 Rassah He's basically another stpid-rich guy who likes to fuck with things
14:50 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves you and your hugs. next time i see you ima make everyone hug you.
14:50 ThickAsThieves no i'll melt!
14:50 benkay and if scripted, godawful scripting.
14:50 Rassah pankkake: I'd rather use OpenTransaction instead of Ripple
14:50 mircea_popescu benkay but i had believed in the power of the crowd source!
14:50 mircea_popescu ot actually works now ?
14:50 benkay 2's a crowd?
14:50 pankkake oh, I suppose you could use it that way too
14:51 pankkake in any case, you don't need a "coin"
14:51 Rassah mircea_popescu: And Brock also privately has a ton of high level connections, probably to almost every bitcoin mining company, bitcoin business, and ons of cuntry politicians, from Russia to China to Sout America...
14:51 pankkake and Thailand
14:52 benkay i long for my home cuntry
14:52 ThickAsThieves cuntry road take me hoem
14:52 mircea_popescu Rassah and if instead he were just a washed up child actor with a charged past, looking to come to terms with his depression, wouldn't he be claiming basically the exact same things ?
14:52 Rassah pankkake: I agree with you that you don't need a coin for anything backed. Backing is by definition centralized, so the only thing you can decentralize is the servers handling it. Which, I guess using a distributed ledger instead of a centralized one running on your own server saves you a bit of money, but...
14:53 * benkay tunes out
14:53 mircea_popescu now seriously dear assets, we need a script for the next girl doing a nude attack vid.
14:53 mircea_popescu who's got ideas!
14:53 Rassah mircea_popescu: I don't think washed out child actors have millions privately invested in tons of companies, and tak about this shit over 20 rounds of beer that they pay with an AmEx Centurion card
14:53 mthreat 1. bitcoin for script writer
14:53 mthreat 2. bitcoin for tits
14:54 mthreat 3. profit
14:54 mircea_popescu well, if noit profit, at least scriptits.
14:54 princessnell i can write a script. no tits from me tho.
14:54 mircea_popescu princessnell but can you make it good ?
14:54 princessnell i think so! what are you going for?
14:54 mircea_popescu you watched the prev ones ?
14:55 princessnell only that one with dear saffron
14:55 Rassah Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort...
14:55 mircea_popescu princessnell good enough.
14:55 Rassah Anywa, back to reading trilema links...
14:55 mircea_popescu princessnell so then why ask me what we're going for ?
14:56 princessnell so i can give you exactly what you want
14:56 mircea_popescu Rassah the bf board is easy. i could have a dead hamster elected, if i wanted to waste btc supporting cancer.
14:56 mircea_popescu i like how this is going, but! what i want is basically the words for a camho to coldhit an older, accomplished male.
14:57 mircea_popescu exactly the reverse of pickup artistrsy
14:57 Rassah Hah! So you got connections to people on the bf board! Finally some real world ties :D
14:57 mircea_popescu this is getting lulzy.
14:57 mircea_popescu Rassah http://trilema.com/2013/the-stuff-all-good-conspiracy-theories-start-with/ << identify faces will you.
14:57 assbot The stuff all good conspiracy theories start with pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
14:58 princessnell coquettishness then. how long? who are the marks?
14:59 princessnell #bitcoin-assets is the realest world
14:59 mircea_popescu princessnell how... long ? well so far i took it down from 5 to 3 minutes. if you can deliver in less im sure the girls will love it.
14:59 Rassah I recognize Mircea... I guess that's all that matters?
15:00 mircea_popescu srsly ?
15:00 benkay mircea_popescu: it's going to have to be an actual nude video this time too
15:00 mircea_popescu benkay yeah.
15:00 mircea_popescu the hard part is that well... too much going on for the girl to manage. you'll see.
15:00 benkay hm?
15:00 Rassah mircea_popescu: yeah. Seems there are two completely different power groups in Bitcoin
15:01 Rassah Which is awesome, because I have TWO social ladders to climb now :D
15:01 mircea_popescu Rassah notrly. the people you've not identified include wences, voorhees, momchil, bunches of others.
15:01 Rassah That IS Voorhees?
15:01 mircea_popescu welcome to 2012.
15:01 Rassah I tought it was him, but didn't want to risk insulting you, because I didn't know what your opinion of him is
15:02 mthreat mircea_popescu: have you tried running a google adword on taleb's own name? people often google themselves. I remember reading a blog post from a guy who used that approach to reach someone.
15:02 mircea_popescu perhaps because you also don't know who laid down the ruleset for the sec, and really for the whole us
15:02 mircea_popescu because you think there's somehow two power groups, because i guess... a lot of talking ? or something.
15:02 mthreat mircea_popescu: (assuming you're trying to get taleb here)
15:02 mircea_popescu mthreat yeah but that someone was a vapid marketeering bitch.
15:03 mthreat this was a guy, but i'm sure it's happened more than once
15:03 mircea_popescu imo it'd be a shit move, seeing how plenty of people google taleb to, you know, find taleb.
15:03 mthreat geolocate it to his city
15:03 mircea_popescu (bitch is not gender bound)
15:03 mthreat "bitch is in the heart"
15:04 mircea_popescu are you setting me up for a restraining order ?
15:14 mircea_popescu princessnell if it helps, i think the next victim is nick szabo
15:14 mircea_popescu which reminds me, dear chan, we also need a victim list!
15:16 princessnell ooo <3nick szabo<3 will do my best. bitstein has been chatting him up, maybe he can help with that one.
15:16 mircea_popescu bitcoin-assets. where you do what you love. also puns.
15:18 Rassah mircea_popescu: I noticed you rely a lot on PHP... I've been treating my PHP keys like disposable tissues, and relyig on bitcoin message signing instead...
15:19 Rassah Is that in any way something you accomodate?
15:19 mircea_popescu http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/08/26/to-the-dudebro-who-thinks-hes-insulting-me-by-calling-me-a-feminist/ << in which self centered douche imagines someone poking fun at him necessarily gives a shit about him personally.
15:19 mircea_popescu Rassah i have no idea what you just asked. what php keys, and where would i accomodate them ?
15:19 Rassah For instance, at the conference
15:19 Rassah Doh! PGP, not PHP
15:21 mircea_popescu no, i'm not going to support a braindamaged half baked re-implementation of pgp in bitcoind.
15:21 mircea_popescu leaving aside all the 500 other problems with the idea, why would you want to centralise things ?
15:22 Rassah Centralize?
15:22 mircea_popescu yes.
15:24 Rassah It's supported by bitcoind, blockchain.info, Armory, Mycelium, and probably many others. I figured bitcoin message signing is a step in the right direction, because not many are working on making PGP keys secure as hell, but tons of people are woking on making Bitcoin keys secure as hell, and easy to use from wallets. Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing
15:25 pankkake pgp offers more than signing, and has an entirely different paradigm. identity has multiple signing and encryption keys; you trust the identity
15:26 Rassah oh yeah
15:26 pankkake using bitcoin forces you to a lower level that is quite inconvenient
15:26 mircea_popescu Rassah you figured wrong. tieing your ability to sign to bitcoin is a step in the wrong direction.
15:27 benkay apropos of nothing: http://valleywag.gawker.com/police-investigating-star-tech-ceo-over-multiple-rape-a-1601697781
15:27 assbot Police Investigating Star Tech CEO Over Multiple Rape Allegations
15:27 mircea_popescu wait srsly ?!
15:28 pankkake Scott Kveton is the CEO of Urban Airship, a mobile services platform provider in Portland, Oregon <= CEO, "urban", "mobile services", "portland"
15:28 benkay no contracts, no negotiation. just...
15:29 pankkake that wsan't rape, that was ironic sex!
15:29 benkay no safewords even apparently. lots of intoxication.
15:29 mircea_popescu i don't do safewords either.
15:36 ThickAsThieves <+Rassah> Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... /// but how to apply this logic to Ploshay?
15:43 mircea_popescu http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ao8kz/people_us_dollars_are_not_worth_a_fifth_of_a/
15:43 assbot People! US Dollars are not worth a fifth of a Bitcent. STOP SELLING! : Bitcoin
15:43 mircea_popescu reddit discovers things.
15:48 Rassah ThickAsThieves: but how to apply this logic to Ploshay? Ploshay was well liked, and was like the "popular girl" or whatever, elected during a very public election when the BF was still something the general public was interested in, and when BF was still interested in a public image
15:48 Rassah Ploshay won a popularity contest basicaly (I ran against her, so I may be biased)
15:49 mircea_popescu lol wait, the bf is not interested in a public image anymore ?
15:49 mircea_popescu was this 5 minutes before or 5 minutes after their public image got wrecked ?
15:50 fluffypony lol
15:50 fluffypony so Petamine made a BIG fuss about moving to p2pool
15:50 fluffypony https://twitter.com/CoinpricesIO/status/489105070852558848
15:51 mircea_popescu p2pool sadly has some lingering tech issues. for years now.
15:51 Rassah It was not 5 minutes, it was more like a long slog into the dumps
15:51 mircea_popescu i'd love nothing more than to push a p2pool.
15:51 Rassah I love p2pool
15:51 Rassah A lot of the whole "How can we fix 51% attacks" suggestions are really horrible...
15:52 ThickAsThieves indeed
15:54 Rassah I am especially concerned about the one where mining in a pool is made difficult to impossible by making sharing a secret key that lets the miner steal all coins a requirement. The way I see it is, we either have pools that concentrate mining power, but don't actually own or control that power, or we create incentives for individuals to amass tons of mining power, since being a smal miner or as part of a pool is impossible, and
15:54 Rassah then we have individuals that actually do control that mining power. Badly alligned incentives...
15:55 Rassah Basically, pools with 50% mining power are better than individuals with 50% mining power, and some ideas seem to make us trend to 50% owned by individuals
15:56 mircea_popescu Rassah the key sharing thing is braindamaged.
15:56 mircea_popescu there will be a wrapper around it on day 1.01
15:57 Rassah Hey, can you guys tell me who BitcoinPete is?
15:57 mircea_popescu ;;gettrust bitcoinpete
15:57 gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user bitcoinpete: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 7 via 8 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=bitcoinpete | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bitcoinpete | Rated since: Fri Mar 28 09:14:47 2014
15:57 mircea_popescu http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/304046_Startup_CEO_Dudebro_Wishes_Deg << someone needs to explain to me how homeless people can be residents of san francisco.
15:57 assbot Startup CEO Dudebro Wishes 'Degenerates' Would Stop Ruining 'The Civilized Part' of San Francisco - LGF Pages
15:58 mircea_popescu am i a resident of sf ?
16:00 ThickAsThieves Rassah, bitcoinpete is a b-a disciple going back roughly 6mos, he blogs and has a neat jewfro
16:00 ThickAsThieves not sure his profession
16:01 mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel
16:01 Rassah Huh. He's actually the reason I'm in here in the first place. I followed his blog here, after he tweeted that Mycelium Entropy < dice, and agreed once I asked him if he would be interested in auditing out device.
16:01 gabriel_laddel they spend a lot on the homeless every year in SF. I imagine that when they hand it out they sort out the papers for these 'people'.
16:01 Rassah Peter Todd will be doing an audit too, ad I was hping Bitcoin Pete was someone with some technical knowledge or something
16:01 mircea_popescu but still. to reside somewhere must mean you own some real estate.
16:02 mircea_popescu Rassah tech knowledge in what field ?
16:02 Rassah software, hardware, anything.
16:02 mircea_popescu that's a little confused.
16:02 mircea_popescu whoa look, bitcoinpete's only been rated since march huh. how time flies.
16:03 Rassah Basically, we have people with reservations about the randomness and security of our entropy devices, despite not actually knowing how it works, and we are hoping to get some of tose people to back up their claims
16:03 mircea_popescu i guess asciilifeform is the guy who's done most re entropy.
16:04 Rassah so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic
16:04 gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: Is your express purpose for the cam video to get people like Nick Szabo and Taleb to join #-assets?
16:04 Rassah mircea_popescu: I haven't heard a peep from asciilifeform, actually. Most complaints ave been from slush
16:05 asciilifeform !s asciilifeform mycelium
16:05 assbot 5 results for 'asciilifeform mycelium' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+mycelium
16:05 mircea_popescu wait. were you looking for people with tech expertise or with complaint expertise ?
16:06 mircea_popescu anyway, http://trilema.com/2013/cardano-xmas-blown-other-statements/
16:06 assbot Cardano : Xmas blown, other statements pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
16:06 mircea_popescu footnote 5 prolly of most interest to you
16:06 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel yes.
16:07 Rassah mircea_popescu: Typicall they are one and the same. It's rare that people who dn't know whit about a topic shit all over it. Unless they're politicians
16:07 Rassah whit = shit
16:07 mircea_popescu or on reddit.
16:07 mircea_popescu or on the internet. or 20. or having a bad day. or w/e.
16:09 FabianB $mpexstatus
16:09 empyex FabianB: Proxies: http://mpex.coinbr.com/ http://mpex.co/ MPEx-Status: Error reaching trade engine (change: $proxies <newlist>)
16:09 assbot 401 Authorization Required
16:11 Rassah The only ones on Reddit who brought up issues were the ones I know to have technical backgrounds (sluch, peter todd, a few others who backed up their concerns with actual technical questions). Most everyone else just went gaga over it. I kinda assumed BitcoinPete knew something about cryptography and security, considering his statement, followed by me asking if he'd be interested in doing an audit for us, and him agreeing.
16:11 Rassah Though if he just bloggs, I'm not sure if that will be worth our time or money
16:11 mircea_popescu ;;seen bitcoinpete
16:11 gribble bitcoinpete was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 hours, 16 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <bitcoinpete> Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."
16:12 mircea_popescu guy shows up here about once a day, you can ask him in person and get an idea.
16:12 mircea_popescu !up CheckDavid
16:12 mircea_popescu !up chetty
16:12 Rassah Will do.
16:12 mircea_popescu anyway, i still don't know what it is or what's to go gaga over.
16:13 chetty http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Thomaston-Man-Arrested-After-Stabbing-Watermelon-Cops-267183461.html
16:13 assbot Thomaston Man Arrested After Stabbing Watermelon: Cops | NBC Connecticut
16:14 mircea_popescu gotta find more humane ways to cut the gourd ?
16:14 Rassah It's a USB stick that you stick into your priner's USB port, it detects a photo, and you hit print, making your printer print a bicoin paper wallet that's never been exposed to the web. Soon as you pull the stick out, the keys are gone for ever
16:14 CheckDavid mircea_popescu: hi baby
16:14 CheckDavid Can't I up myself anymore? :p
16:14 Rassah Basically an extremely high level entropy generator that uses that entropy to make secure paper walets
16:14 asciilifeform Rassah: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2014#744143
16:14 assbot #bitcoin-assets log
16:15 mircea_popescu Rassah is this thing atmel based ?
16:16 asciilifeform Rassah: what must one do to verify - without a shade of doubt, in personal laboratory - that your device works as described?
16:17 Rassah asciilifeform: Atmel SAM4L series running the software, with random number being generated only from SRAM, in combinaton with other things we're considering, like a salt you can add in a TXT file
↖
16:17 Rassah You can check what the software calls for
16:17 asciilifeform Rassah: generated only from SRAM << your code reads a standalone sram? or atmel claims to produce rng output this way inside a black box micro ?
16:18 Rassah I think standalone sram
16:18 asciilifeform Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ?
16:19 Rassah asciilifeform: No, that would be a few of the Mycelium devs. They described a lot of it to me, since I'm working with them (I'm the one doing the public interraction thing, and running Indiegogo and such)
16:20 Rassah I asked and can relay the Atmel/sram question. I think they are al asleep right now, since they're in Austria
16:20 asciilifeform Rassah: other question. in my own experiments, i found that sram powerup 'static' depends heavily on the die's temperature.
16:20 asciilifeform Rassah: what, if anything, does your product do to verify that rng is actually functioning 'as rated' before bits are used in anger?
16:21 mircea_popescu Rassah probably the better avenue would be for the graybeard in charge to show up here
16:22 mircea_popescu people have tried this "i'm the pr, i'll pass q's along" thing before, it never works well, not necessarily through anyone's specific fault,
16:22 mircea_popescu but things get escalated and magnified.
16:23 Rassah In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)
↖
16:23 asciilifeform Rassah, mircea_popescu: then one last question, for if/when he does. value of adjacent sram cells is correlated. what, if anything, was done about this? (my guess - nothing but the usual 'whitening'.)
16:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i personally doubt anyone with hardware understanding touched the design, but then again how would i know.
16:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: somebody had to crap out the physical unit.
16:24 Rassah We can store part of the raw entropy into non-volatile memory and
16:24 Rassah compare it on the next run. Since we have about 30 times more entropy
16:24 Rassah than we need, we can afford it. This memory effect is already very
16:24 Rassah unlikely; the probability that 1/20th of the SRAM behaves fine and the
16:24 Rassah other 19/20th are stuck is much lower. Especially if the stored part
16:24 Rassah is taken from a different SRAM area every time.
16:24 Rassah We can also add secondary sources to the mix:
16:24 Rassah - the built-in TRNG; nobody trusts these things anymore as primary
16:24 Rassah sources, and we did not even consider its availability when choosing
16:24 Rassah the processor, but it's there and is probably perfectly fine and
16:24 Rassah random;
16:24 mircea_popescu Rassah try a pastebin srsly.
16:24 Rassah - floating ADC inputs, as Peter suggested;
16:24 Rassah - five independent RC oscillators.
16:24 Rassah Sorry for the line spam
16:25 Rassah copy/pasted from reply
16:25 asciilifeform floating adc inputs << you mean local radio station receiver !
16:25 Rassah asciilifeform: this device was designed and assembled by the people workin on the bitcoincard. They all know hardware extremely wel
16:25 kakobrekla Rassah why dont you get people who are actually doing this thing here before you do more damage?
16:25 asciilifeform rc oscillators << you meant - 'thermometers'
16:25 mircea_popescu so it's using an atmel micro but not for the trng ?
16:25 Rassah kakobrekla: Damage?
16:26 Rassah Ah, got a eply. Seems we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM after all. And "We will be doing our own analysis of data from several chips, and provide a raw entropy file for those who want to do their own for their specific device." combined with "option to enter a user-supllied salt"
16:28 asciilifeform /me 'we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM' << has probably read enough.
16:28 Rassah So, we won't be relying on Atmel's RNG, and will be reading their SRAM directly
16:28 mircea_popescu this doesn't sound terribly mature somehow.
16:28 Rassah mature in what way? Completed and researched? Or discussed at present?
16:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, this is your punishment for xmas.
16:28 asciilifeform ehehe
16:29 Rassah Is Atmel really that untrustworthy? Is there a better option?
16:29 mircea_popescu Rassah as in i get the impression things may change or w/e. anyway.
16:29 mircea_popescu atmel is a us producer of black box transistor boxes.
16:29 asciilifeform Rassah: ever encounter the concept of 'auditability' ?
16:29 mircea_popescu this is a poor fit for the application.
16:30 Rassah mircea_popescu: No, the hardware design is finished. Changes are only in software. Initial method of creating keys is done, we are just adding software patches to add more and more entropy sources to this thing.
16:30 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0AQNY2Q.txt )
16:30 kakobrekla !b 1
16:30 mircea_popescu software does not add entropy.
16:31 asciilifeform floating adc inputs! am i roasting in some sort of F-student hell now?
16:32 Rassah I mean the chip and the hardware has a lot of stuff in there. The entropy is altready there, but initially we figured the SRAM chip was overkill. The "software adding entropy" meaning we just add more code to grab entropy from more hardware and user sources
16:32 mircea_popescu i see.
16:32 asciilifeform Rassah: user sources ???
16:33 Rassah Yes. If you plug tis device into your PC while holding down the button, it shows up in "flash mode", where instead of just a USB stick with a JPG on it, you get to see all the system and settings files. One of those files is a user provded sald (like diceware) that will be combined with the rest of the entropy sources to produce the final key
16:34 asciilifeform Rassah: 'combined' in what sense?
16:35 mircea_popescu http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aq7w0/psa_bitbet_holding_funds_past_bet_resolution_date/cixxunv kinda lulzy shit.
16:35 assbot DownvCuzIHurtUrFeels comments on PSA: BitBet holding funds past bet resolution date.
16:35 asciilifeform Rassah: let me guess. a hash.
16:36 Rassah key = H(salt||H(entropy)) with H(entropy) on a second sheet of paper so the user can verify it... or something
16:37 Rassah Initially the idea was: Write a salt onto the stick. Then generate key = H(H(entropy_1) + salt) + H(H(entropy_2) + salt), and print all of [key, salt, H(e1), H(H(e1) + salt), H(e2), H(H(e2) + salt)]. (+ could be arithmetic addition or XOR; either should be fine.) The user can then verify exactly one of the outer hashes on an insecure computer, and can verify the additions by hand (literally, pen and paper, no computer)
16:38 asciilifeform Rassah: why are you using whitening (hashing) in rng? and 'because everyone does' is not acceptable answer.
↖
16:38 asciilifeform Rassah: because now your bits are... correlated.
16:39 Rassah Oh, one other answer (one of the techs is awake): We know we're getting sram because we are physically reading it.
16:39 asciilifeform Rassah: do you actually believe that hashing can add (instead of subtracting) entropy?
16:40 Rassah It may reduce entropy, but it inreases he number of attack vectors, doesn't it? Attacker would need both the hardware based RNG and the salt to compromise it
16:41 asciilifeform Rassah: 'we are physically reading it' << how do you know this? that is to say, if both the reader and the sram are on one ic die, how can you substitute, e.g. a fake sram that never flips bits, to test ?
16:41 asciilifeform Rassah: picture a thoroughly, obscenely broken hash.
16:41 Rassah Due to bits not always flipping because of temperature and outside environment, we will be testing for these issues already.
16:42 asciilifeform Rassah: then it doesn't matter what you did to plug in the random bits - they are smeared across the 'ciphertext' (if you will, the hash output) and can be inferred.
16:42 mircea_popescu !up chetty
16:43 asciilifeform Rassah: 'we will be testing' >> how ?
16:44 asciilifeform Rassah: my purpose isn't pedantry. try to apprehend: i buy your product, get a keychain-sized gizmo with a single chip. how do i verify that the package functions exactly as described?
16:45 Rassah I understand. I'm glad you are asking these questions
16:45 Rassah THERE'S someone I finally know!
16:45 asciilifeform Rassah: consider that you are now married to the physical characteristics of a particular model from particular vendor. e.g. next year atmel ships sram that's non-entropic down to -40. without bothering to tell you. or it is 'entropic', but actually picks up Voice of America.
16:45 Rassah The Davi Barket convention standin
16:45 Rassah *Barker
16:46 Rassah asciilifeform: He's writing. Give me a sec
16:46 BingoBoingo Rassah: What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too << Transaxel is just a sideways transmission
16:46 mircea_popescu Rassah seriously, this guy can't irc or something ?
16:46 kakobrekla Pirus story rehashed with the new gizmo
16:47 Rassah BingoBoingo: It's three motors in a constantly moving planetary gear setup. The "transmitting" is done by varying input, generation, and torque of he electric motors
16:47 mircea_popescu yah i think that's how they do all the hybrids.
16:47 Rassah Just Prius. Others use plain engine, plain motor, ad connect them with a CVT
16:48 kakobrekla o wait i take that back.
16:49 Rassah Basicaly, normally to get more power, a car (or other hybrids) switch to a lower gear ratio and spin the electric and/or gas harder. In a prius, the gas engine spins faster than the smaler inner engine can keep up, whic cases it to spin backwards, generate electricity, and then that electric is pumped into the big electric engine
16:50 Rassah Here's an interractive animation of it http://eahart.com/prius/psd/
16:50 assbot Toyota Prius - Power Split Device
16:52 Rassah mircea_popescu: Not realy. The reason I was hired is because they don't have time or patience for that
16:52 BingoBoingo Right, but this arrangement of gears and fluids to drive power to wheels is still a transmission. Even if oddly arranged. Nearly any front wheel drive, front engine car uses the term transaxle for this.
16:53 BingoBoingo Because it is transmission+axle
16:53 Rassah BingoBoingo: I think Prius calls it a transaxle too. But I don't see it as any sort of normal "transmission"
16:53 Rassah After working on cars, this thing is too weird and different (and less problem-prone) to me
16:54 mircea_popescu Rassah well then i guess they don't get to talk about it at all, to no-one's particular detriment.
16:54 BingoBoingo Oh it is abnormal as hell, but because of its role it is still a transmission
16:55 Rassah asciilifeform: from Nikita: Firstly, we'll publish our analysis of data from chips and argue that it should apply to all chips, and whoever wants can get data from his chip and run our tools or make his own. (our device will be fully open source, so anyone can make one if they wish). Secondly, we zero out a word in memory and make sure it's got enough 1s next time. If there was not enough power-off time, sram would retain its
16:55 Rassah state and we'd read 0 and refuse to generate a key. We will check if the amount of 0 > x% and < y% (to check for deep-freeze temperatures) the Closer they are to 50% the better
16:55 Rassah but since the sample amount is very large even a 10% value is technically enough
16:55 asciilifeform Rassah: ask him if whitening is used anywhere.
16:56 Rassah I asked. Can you tell me what whitening is? I'm not that techie :(
16:57 Rassah hashing?
16:57 asciilifeform Rassah: hashing as an attempt to 'distill' entropy.
16:59 mircea_popescu whitening is the process of turning the banal 11111 string into b0baee9d279d34fa1dfd71aadb908c3f
16:59 mircea_popescu which is supposedly "entropic", up until someone tries to put your source through md5
16:59 Rassah asciilifeform: Nikita says we use standard cryptographic hashes. Just for salt, for private and public keys, and other bitcoin specific things
16:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes. some people, somehow, think this adds 'entropy'
17:00 asciilifeform Rassah: i drew you a picture: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jjqY9eTW
17:00 Rassah We don't use hashing as a source of entropy, no. Only to combine ours with a salt
17:00 asciilifeform Rassah: this is approximately the kind of pattern you end up with using sram on powerup
17:01 asciilifeform Rassah: as you can see - if you turn this into a bitstring by pure 'raster' scan, it will contain mostly zero.
17:01 asciilifeform Rassah: by what means do you 'collect the entropy' ?
17:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no matter. von neuman :D
17:01 Rassah asciilifeform: We read the ram data directly
17:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: von neumann of predictable bitstream is still predictable.
17:02 mircea_popescu but debiased!
17:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: comput von neumann of '0101010101'.
17:03 mircea_popescu i suspect a trick.
17:04 mircea_popescu !up ducky_
17:04 mike_c 00000
17:04 mike_c what do i win
17:04 Rassah asciilifeform: It's a bit white (with 0's), but it's considerably more populated than that. This is the paper that we used to base this one, and it has some examples of the results http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.164.6432&rep=rep1&type=pdf
17:05 Rassah http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.164.6432
17:05 assbot CiteSeerX — Power-up SRAM State as an Identifying Fingerprint and Source of True Random Numbers
17:05 asciilifeform Rassah: we read the paper. (or at least, i did)
17:05 Rassah ok
17:05 asciilifeform Rassah: consider the title of the paper. do you see any apparent contradiction?
17:06 Rassah Hah, Nikita just ran the output from our device as an actual example http://pastebin.com/yz2GnsKd
17:06 assbot 0000200: 00001011 00101101 11010100 11101010 .-.. 0000204: 11111101 01111100 1 - Pastebin.com
17:07 BingoBoingo Rassah: Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... << 90's nostalgia
17:07 Rassah BingoBoingo: Name one movie (besides Mighty Ducks, where he had a sall cameo) that we was in? I've never even heard of him before bitcoin
17:08 mike_c it's not a cameo if you're not famous
17:08 BingoBoingo Rassah: Some thing where he went in time with knights or some shit. At first I confused him with Thomas Ian Nicholas. I think his popularity stems from this confusion.
17:09 asciilifeform Rassah: not very interesting, i'm afraid. let's see the actual grid values - unprocessed.
17:09 Rassah His movies are shit from what he told me
17:09 asciilifeform Rassah: note that you would need to know the actual physical layout of atmel's die, to draw this picture. do you?
17:09 Rassah asciilifeform: We'll publish those
17:10 asciilifeform Rassah: it would have to be an electron micrograph. taken by somebody other than atmel.
17:11 mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=569043.0;all << check that shit out
17:11 assbot Auction of AdBit.co - Advertising network
17:11 Rassah Will Atmel know what your seed and other entropy sources are? If not, why does it matter?
17:12 Rassah LOL! Um...
17:12 asciilifeform Rassah: atmel can replace your sram with whatever it likes.
17:12 Rassah won't that cost them way more?
17:12 asciilifeform Rassah: including, e.g. one that functions as an sram on all days but every 5th christmas.
17:13 Rassah and won't that make an excelent opportunity for someone to sell a device just like ours, using their own trusted sram chips? Maybe for more money, but more secure?
17:13 asciilifeform Rassah: but all of this pales in comparison to another little observation. recall pg. 10 of the paper.
17:13 BingoBoingo Rassah: ... Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing << Other big difference is PGP signing has a nice container for inline signatures attached to signed human readable text of arbitrary length
17:14 asciilifeform Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will Fig. 11: This contour shows the probability distribution at 273 K and 323
17:14 asciilifeform Rassah: K, of all cells that are neutral at 293 K. Note that the probability exceeds 0.04 at the highest points; these peaks are omitted to show the rest of the distribution with greater detail. See Section VI-B1 for discussion typically
17:14 Rassah BingoBoingo: -----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
17:14 Rassah Comment: Signed by Bitcoin Armory v0.91.99
17:14 Rassah You mean like this?
17:14 Rassah -----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
17:14 Rassah HOmDGwDHYEtFRXWurHW7km9QCKWJMRVyqfPbsBOEQmvFVLTRQVOTAtB/OZHkTuxG
17:14 Rassah UfcLmLUyQoCbsHWrWqApocg=
17:14 Rassah =/98y
17:14 Rassah -----END BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
17:15 BingoBoingo Rassah: And different clients produce diffent signoturds and expect different signaturds.
17:15 asciilifeform Rassah: ergo: if i have a sufficiently precise graph of the temperature of your unit over time, i can infer something about the sram and which cells are responsible for the bulk of the input to rng.
17:15 mircea_popescu o look at that, they DO listen.
17:15 Rassah asciilifeform: We've dealt with skew stuff too. I don't remember what it was, but it was addressed (I think we have more than enough enropy to work with or something)
17:15 BingoBoingo !up nanotube
17:16 Rassah BingoBoingo: Blockchain.info is weird abou it, but bitcoin-qt, Armory, and Mycelium are all compatible
17:16 asciilifeform Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will make that same cell 0-skewed.' << fixed bad paste
17:16 BingoBoingo !up MarcSummers
17:17 asciilifeform Rassah: the skew we're talking about isn't rng output skew - the kind that can be addressed with von neuman's algo, etc. it's the actual physical effect you're using.
17:19 Rassah asciilifeform: From Nikita again: Most cells have too much skew to be useful. We suck entropy out of those whose skew is low. That's why there is ~21:1 cell-to-entropy ratio at room temperature on most devices. They had one device from Microchip IIRC, whose entropy was much lower, but the others were very close to the 20–21 ballpark. We analysed data from MRD SoC, which is in the bitcoincard, and got the same 21:1 ratio. Then I
17:19 Rassah put it in the freezer in the kitchen and collected data while it was cooling down. There was still plenty at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. The cells with high skew are those which effectively constitute device signature.
17:19 Rassah We can say that the skews are randomly distributed among cells during manufacture, and then remain fixed; temperature shifts all skews.
17:19 BingoBoingo Rassah: And the last tolerable version of Multibit does something else as well. When PGP/GPG has the ascii armored text block already it just isn't worth trying to replace it with bitcoin signing just to save a few bytes.
17:20 asciilifeform Rassah: your friend has cemented my conclusion. i can figure out which cells are responsible for the device's output, merely by knowing your room temperature over time. and then all we have to do is run brute force over the narrowed set. (a few bits)
17:20 Rassah BingoBoingo: You could just say "Bitcoin address doesn't support encryption, or storing identity inside the key"
17:21 mircea_popescu he could also say "i don't want my signature to be dependent on the code written last year by a bunch of dudebros"
17:21 BingoBoingo Rassah: That too, but I just want to point out that even for signing cleartext, it isn't workable.
17:21 mircea_popescu understandable, especially as pgp has been around for three decades.
17:22 Rassah asciilifeform: So, if I use an entropy device to generate paper walets, you can bruteforce it by recording the temperature in my room???
17:23 asciilifeform Rassah: evidently.
17:23 Rassah I plug it into my printer, and make a paper walet. I put it away, and send money to the paper wallet. Then you......
17:23 mircea_popescu takes the stick, puts it in the freezer, melts it slowly, identifies the flip bits, counts them
17:23 mircea_popescu tries all values of a few bits and finds your key.
17:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i was hoping he'd figure it out, without you or i drawing the picture.
17:24 mircea_popescu he's not tech, is he.
17:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: betcha the tech won't read any of this.
17:25 Rassah I am not tech, no. I wasn't aware that these things actually retained any bits when you yank them out
17:25 Rassah asciilifeform: On the contrary, they are reading all of this
17:25 mircea_popescu Rassah it's not that they retain bits. it's that they retain their behaviour.
17:25 asciilifeform Rassah: if you read the paper, you will see that a small minority of sram cells is responsible for most of the 'random' behaviour.
17:26 mircea_popescu all it takes is to find which, and/or count them
17:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: incidentally, it may not eve be necessary to capture a particular unit. just one of her 'sisters.'
17:27 mircea_popescu same batch, yea, obv. with a little luck they are exactly identical.
17:27 Rassah So it's a good thing we're not relying on just SRAM fo the entropy then
17:27 mircea_popescu with a little less luck they're identical but physically translated in the plane.
17:27 asciilifeform Rassah: also on voice of america picked up by loose adc inputs?
17:28 mircea_popescu Rassah do you know what the cook said when the people in the restaurant didn't like his shit soup ?
17:28 Rassah asciilifeform: Nikita: Well, yeah, you can narrow the range down to about 8000 bits.
17:29 kakobrekla mircea_popescu leave the bits you dont like? :)
17:29 mircea_popescu kakobrekla lmao good one. but no, it was "thanks god i put some piss in there too, so it's not all shit"
17:29 kakobrekla lol
17:29 asciilifeform lol!!
17:29 Rassah :D
17:30 Rassah asciilifeform: Work on this device was started in early September. So we have had a lot of tests on the chips by people who have been working on bitcoin cryptography for years now. So it seems as if they are aware of most of these concerns...
17:31 asciilifeform Rassah: 'they are aware of most of these concerns' << and still did nothing. this, you realize, is an accusation of willful scammitude. not mere ignorance.
17:31 kakobrekla do you go to church Rassah ?
17:32 Rassah kakobrekla: What kind of a question is that?
17:32 fluffypony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
17:32 assbot "Weird Al" Yankovic - Word Crimes - YouTube
17:32 Rassah Me: You're basically saying that, even if they stole the device and examined it, or stole one that was made right after it with similar chip characteristics, they'd still have 8000 bits of entropy to dea with, making their brutefocing impossible?
17:32 Rassah Nikita: Yes.
17:33 asciilifeform Rassah: what size sram ?
17:34 Rassah From another ech working on this: bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits
17:34 Rassah Nikita: Total size 32 kBytes, we use about 21 kB as entropy source.
17:34 asciilifeform Rassah: there are not 8000 uncorrelated bits in there.
17:34 mircea_popescu bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits << wtf nonsense is this ?
17:35 Rassah Different guy who does the software commenting about the software side of it? I have no idea
17:35 mircea_popescu https://eprint.iacr.org/2010/006.pdf etc
17:35 asciilifeform there is some typical 'confusion between the warm and the soft' here. the only bits that matter are entirely independent (in the statistical sense) ones.
17:36 Rassah asciilifeform: You will be informed when our sources are released and you are invited to give his opiniion then <<-- Apparently my official statement
17:36 Rassah asciilifeform: "He's wasting your time, that's obvious now." <<- not official statement
17:36 kakobrekla lol
17:36 asciilifeform Rassah: so! product sold first. sources published - sometime, maybe - later. interesting.
17:36 mircea_popescu you know, i had told you this won't work about an hour ago.
17:37 Rassah no, sources wll be published before product is out
17:37 mircea_popescu at least the fact that it's been worked on since sept makes me feel a lot better.
17:37 Rassah We have sources, we just don't want cheap chinese knockoffs undercutting us before we even ship
17:37 mircea_popescu how much is it gonna cost ?
17:38 asciilifeform Rassah: wait. you expect that your target market consists of people who would even contemplate buying a knockoff ?!!
17:39 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2BPFDFM.txt )
17:39 BingoBoingo !b 3
17:39 Rassah asciilifeform: Have you seen the chinese bitcoin mining market?
17:40 asciilifeform Rassah: what do miners have to do with it ?
17:40 Rassah And yes, if the software and hardware is completely open source and public, why wouldn't someone want to sell cheaper knockoffs? We hope we can still sell outs at a premium, due to our reputaton and such, but...
17:40 dub http://www.wankcoin.com/
17:40 assbot WANKCOIN | Bank While You Wank!
17:40 dub how did assets miss this?
17:40 Rassah generic hardware is easy to reproduce
17:40 mircea_popescu dub global cooling.
17:41 dub 1.21 jiggafaps
17:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you got your pm s off or something?
17:41 mircea_popescu dub check it out, #wankcoin
17:42 asciilifeform actually i must admit that i am looking forward to these machines being produced, shipping, selling widely. because apparently there is only one way to educate people - let them piss on electric fence in person.
17:42 dub https://www.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-WKC
17:42 assbot Bittrex.com - BTC-WKC Market
17:44 dub Sex! Money! Power!. WANKCOIN!!!
17:44 BingoBoingo http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/07/clinic/
17:44 assbot In Bid to Cut Costs, Hospital Creates New Multi-Organ System Failure Clinic | Medical Satire - GomerBlog
17:44 Rassah asciilifeform: I take it you're one of those who thinks the only way to create a paper wallet is to buy a used $100 laptop, use diceware with at least 20 words, use the laptop to hash that into your private key and address, write it down by hand on paper using a hard glass surface, and then burn the laptop?
17:45 asciilifeform Rassah: hash!?
17:45 mircea_popescu dub is the page empty or just too jscripty for me ?
17:45 Rassah asciilifeform: I use "hash" interchangeably with "compute with one of the inputs for the formula being your source of entropy, and the output being your private key
17:45 dub mircea_popescu: works here
17:46 Rassah Or do you think that Bitcoin is not secure, because the bitcoin address is hashed from the private key?
17:46 asciilifeform Rassah: i have a perfectly adequate source of physical entropy. actually a small crate of them at this point.
17:46 dub tl;dr bid is 0.00009875
17:46 Rassah asciilifeform: beer bottles and writin sourcecode while drunk?
17:46 BingoBoingo Rassah: Address is hashed from public key...
17:47 mircea_popescu details.
17:47 Rassah BingoBoingo: I know. Priv > pub > address. I as shortening
17:47 Rassah as = am
17:47 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.0119 = 0.8211 BTC [-]
17:49 BingoBoingo If fucking is just about sticking your dick in a hole that accomodates it, I'm just going to get some pipe from the hardware store, saw it into dick length pieces, and sell them pocket pussies. What could go wrong???
17:49 mircea_popescu isn't this fleshlight in nucet ?
17:50 kakobrekla and it does sell.
17:50 Rassah This ting is made for people who are not techy (most of not bitcoiners) who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer. I think this device, where you plug t into your printer and hit print, will make bitcoin a hell of a lot easier to secure for the masses. And it costs a fracton of what the other
17:50 Rassah options are. So, yeah, it's not perfect (with RNG nothing ever is). But it'll help
17:50 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: No, I'm just cutting the pipe and selling it. A dick fits, what is this thing where a dick needs to do more than fit in something to fuck it. I'm just taking a shortcut.
17:51 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo actually, here's an idea : silicone recipients filled with vodka.
17:51 Rassah BingoBoingo: IF it's an uncut dick, that should work fine, but you'll have stiff competition from already existing holes, like couch cussons for instance
17:51 mircea_popescu you drink the booze and then fuck the "bottle"
17:51 mircea_popescu "A date in one!"
17:51 Rassah *stiff* competition
17:52 asciilifeform bbl
17:53 Rassah I seriously hate this keyboard btw... It's a very old microsoft touch-type wireless ergonomic, and it misses the keys around the G and H constantly. But I'm too cheap of a bastard to get a better one. So, please ignore my typos, and don't let them reflect on my grammar skills (I took Latin, damnit!)
17:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: That's a shortcut for the consumer. It's the opposite of a shortcut to produce. Doing the minimum is the right way to produce. Never mind we won't polish the burrs off the edges either.
17:54 Rassah bbl as well
17:55 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo what, you kidding ? just pour the caulk in a shape. cheapest shit ever.
17:55 BingoBoingo Nah, we'll just let people hash their privates...
17:56 dub just sale instructibles for digging dick sized hole in ground
17:57 FabianB Rassah: so it's mainly for the masses who want to store 0.01 btc on a paperwallet
17:58 mircea_popescu FabianB hopefilly more than that, since it'll cost more than 6 bux i imagine
18:00 FabianB probably
18:01 Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC to top $800 before August" http://bitbet.us/bet/994/ Odds: 24(Y):76(N) by coin, 24(Y):76(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.40823557 BTC. Current weight: 83,014.
18:01 Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "LTC to $15USD or above before August 3rd" http://bitbet.us/bet/855/ Odds: 6(Y):94(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.59913185 BTC. Current weight: 18,143.
18:01 Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "DJI to drop below 16000 before August" http://bitbet.us/bet/818/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 34(Y):66(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.620212 BTC. Current weight: 12,319.
18:01 Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Crude Oil to reach $120 before August" http://bitbet.us/bet/941/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 22(Y):78(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.90944413 BTC. Current weight: 25,884.
18:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] 309 @ 0.00778049 = 2.4042 BTC [-] {34}
18:26 benkay <ThickAsThieves> not sure his profession // housewife
18:30 benkay <Rassah> so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic // well if its chips and an rng, asciilifeform's likely to tell you that unless you can inspect the chips (which you can't), you can't make claims about the RNG.
18:30 benkay but i'm just a dog
18:34 benkay <asciilifeform> Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ? // hee hee hee hee i'll just pop this corn
18:38 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
18:39 gribble Current Blocks: 310907 | Current Difficulty: 1.733631697850783E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 312479 | Next Difficulty In: 1572 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17899784284.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.25021
18:39 benkay wow what a logwall
18:40 BingoBoingo Amazing logwall
18:40 benkay amazon assbit
18:41 BingoBoingo Maybe there needs to be a backup instance of assbot named buttsett
18:46 benkay <Rassah> who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer // this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. as a person nominally involved in "public relations" you should never commit such derpitude in public.
18:46 benkay !up Rassah
18:48 pankkake Bitaddress, trusting some random js prng?
18:48 pankkake also, trusting your printer
18:48 BingoBoingo Printers are the worst.
18:50 benkay !up Mats_cd03
18:50 Mats_cd03 my nigga
18:50 benkay sup baby
18:50 Mats_cd03 laptop with gpg died :<
18:50 benkay baw haw haw
18:50 benkay y u no backup, Mats_cd03
18:50 Mats_cd03 i can ddrescue the drive if i cant fix the machine
18:50 benkay do that immediately!
18:51 Mats_cd03 i think i can though, just gonna put it through an alcohol bath (i spilled water on it)
18:51 benkay oh for fucks sake
18:51 Mats_cd03 http://www.mpi-sws.org/~stevens/pubs/imc11.pdf real gud paper bout skype
18:51 mike_c didn't you lose the one because you were stoned?
18:51 mike_c *last
18:51 Mats_cd03 well yes
18:51 benkay moi?
18:51 benkay don't crypto and drugs
18:52 benkay (do (or crypto drugs))
18:52 Mats_cd03 gay
18:52 benkay don't hate the player
18:52 Mats_cd03 no but seriously read the paper
18:53 Mats_cd03 skype enables tracking by entities other than nsa
18:53 Mats_cd03 cause lol
18:54 BingoBoingo So over a sample size of 2, drunk is less memory bad than stoned
18:55 dub narcocryptoterrorists up in here
18:59 Mats_cd03 https://soundcloud.com/samfeldt/sander-van-doorn-firebeatz-guitar-track-sam-feldt-remix-free-download tropical house and sax
18:59 assbot Sander Van Doorn & Firebeatz - Guitar Track (Sam Feldt Remix) [FREE DOWNLOAD] by Sam Feldt on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
19:01 Mats_cd03 oh man that conversation about the usb stick is hilarious
19:02 Mats_cd03 alf bout to die
19:07 asciilifeform Mats_cd03: not quite dead. just had to drive home.
19:07 Mats_cd03 suffering from 'close enough' syndrome
19:08 Mats_cd03 (the usb stick team, anyway)
19:08 Mats_cd03 perfection is intellectually difficult, you know
19:10 Mats_cd03 i found out today someone i used to play starcraft with patented ASLR
19:10 BingoBoingo Mats_cd03: Not even perfection, merely "good enough" is a challenge in any endeavor
19:10 Mats_cd03 what a world huh
19:10 BingoBoingo Huh
19:10 Mats_cd03 (Skywing, Ken Johnson)
19:11 Mats_cd03 http://www.google.com/patents/US20090254726
19:11 assbot Patent US20090254726 - Method of address space layout randomization for windows operating systems - Google Patents
19:12 asciilifeform starcraft with patented ASLR << wtf ?
19:13 Mats_cd03 borked english. i found out today someone i used to play starcraft with, patented ASLR
19:14 benkay 1. WoT
19:14 benkay 2. Start business
19:14 benkay 3. List
19:14 benkay hue
19:14 asciilifeform 'a method of address space layout randomization for a Windows operating system.' << lol!
19:20 Mats_cd03 i learned today you can sabotage EMET
19:21 asciilifeform !up Mats_cd03
19:21 Mats_cd03 SetThreadContext is non-deterministically broken from XP x64 SP0 to Server 2008 R1 x64 SP2
19:22 BingoBoingo !up DoctorBTC
19:22 Mats_cd03 cant protect any x64 browsers...qa didnt even test it
19:22 BingoBoingo !up kyuupichan
19:23 dub the real question, is it bongwater in Mats_cd03's laptop
19:25 BingoBoingo ;;seen Cosmos
19:25 gribble Cosmos was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 31 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Cosmos> I brought entertainment & then I faded down to a speck of nothing
19:29 BingoBoingo %t
19:29 atcbot [X-BT] Bid: 210 Ask: 242 Last Price: 210 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A
19:30 Mats_cd03 sorry... i meant to say it is deterministically broken. the subterfuge is non-deterministic
19:38 Mats_cd03 also read this today http://www.hexeffect.com/virtual_deob.html discusses VM-based packers
19:38 assbot HexEffect, LLC
19:41 BigBitz interesting link, Mats_cd03.
19:41 asciilifeform Mats_cd03: crapware authors went lazy ages ago. most use none - or standard - packers. standard packer -> standard unpacker.
19:41 Mats_cd03 as i understand it, vm-based packers are really hard to use properly
19:42 asciilifeform many people write, e.g. a 'mips' (or other small instruction set) emulator and cross-compile for it. when you get hold of one of these, you can just extract the turd and disassemble using toolset for that cpu.
19:42 Mats_cd03 most crapware authors simply fuck it up when they try to implement the obfuscation
19:42 Mats_cd03 and the use-case for that sort of thing is limited anyway
19:43 Mats_cd03 you can do things like look for the VM license. lol.
19:43 Mats_cd03 'in the most amateur sense of 'fucking it up''
19:44 BingoBoingo http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2559#comic
19:44 assbot Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
19:44 * asciilifeform deals with this crud for a living
19:45 Mats_cd03 when my carpal tunnel gets better id like to do it full time
19:45 Mats_cd03 although im going to avoid dc at all costs
19:46 BingoBoingo Mats_cd03: How is that going? Find anything that offers more relief yet?
19:48 Mats_cd03 its been milder recently, ive been typing a lot less (which means no coding unfortunately for benkay)
19:49 BingoBoingo Rest works in mysterious ways
19:51 Mats_cd03 i tried to teach dragon programming in c
19:51 BingoBoingo !up Mats_cd03
19:51 Mats_cd03 ended up smashing a keyboard out of a fit of childish rage
19:52 Mats_cd03 computers, y u so stupid
19:52 BingoBoingo Maybe you should give up and start keyboarding with your toes
19:53 mike_c keyboards should be able to take a good beating. otherwise they are by (my) definition not fit for professionals.
19:53 asciilifeform mike_c: 'ibm model m' is indestructible, short of power tools
19:53 mike_c one of its charms for sure
19:54 * BingoBoingo offers a bastard file and patience
19:54 kakobrekla btw mike there is a mod where you can make the model m office safe in terms of noise and the feedback is only slightly affected
19:55 Mats_cd03 BigBitz: which one?
19:56 BigBitz the HexEffect link.
19:56 BigBitz relating to VM obfuscating :)
19:56 kakobrekla the way to do is - insert the very thick dental floss (oral b super floss) inside the springs, between 50 and 100% of the height
19:56 kakobrekla worth giving a shot if you own one.
19:57 asciilifeform kakobrekla: cheaper to buy the neighbours their own 'model m' each
19:57 kakobrekla defo not cheapers.
19:57 asciilifeform well - cheaper if your time has value.
19:58 kakobrekla well if you count that, depends on the neighbor count
19:58 kakobrekla these boards arent exactly cheap anymore.
19:59 asciilifeform kakobrekla: they're still dirt cheap on 'ebay', etc. if you're willing to clean an ancient one.
19:59 kakobrekla nevertheless people will resist using these.
19:59 kakobrekla so you will spend time arguing.
19:59 asciilifeform kakobrekla: my recipe: a bucker, dishwasher detergent, soak overnight. wash in cold water. dry overnight.
19:59 asciilifeform *bucket
19:59 kakobrekla and cleaning is time is money again.
19:59 asciilifeform keys & caps off.
19:59 asciilifeform takes ~1/2 hr. total.
20:00 asciilifeform (of actual doing, that is)
20:00 kakobrekla prolly same as the mod :)
20:00 kakobrekla lol.
20:00 kakobrekla im terminating this conversation now
20:00 kakobrekla ctrl c
20:02 BingoBoingo !up cowloon
20:02 BingoBoingo !up mikaeldice
20:02 BingoBoingo !up Ginux
20:04 BingoBoingo http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2582#comic
20:04 assbot Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
~ 20 minutes ~
20:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 183 @ 0.00439984 = 0.8052 BTC [+] {2}
20:27 BingoBoingo !up Mats_cd03
20:29 BingoBoingo Lulzfarm https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=696475.msg7464333;boardseen#new
20:29 assbot HELP ;SOME IS STEALING MY BITCOIN;IT GOT 1 CONFIRMATION!!! 1min ago
20:36 Mats_cd03 http://decompiler.fit.vutbr.cz/decompilation/
20:36 assbot Retargetable Decompiler
20:37 BingoBoingo http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/07/15/yahoo_quarterly_earnings_plunging_ad_prices_pull_down_revenue.html
20:37 assbot Yahoo quarterly earnings: Plunging ad prices pull down revenue.
20:39 asciilifeform Mats_cd03: 'ida hexray' is the only one i've ever seen that was actually usable for anything practical.
20:39 Mats_cd03 mostly average overall but decompilation of asm to c is pretty good
20:40 asciilifeform incidentally, very few products have a monopoly as total as that of 'ida.'
20:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 35 @ 0.02890175 = 1.0116 BTC [-]
20:42 Mats_cd03 i cant say i like working with ida
20:43 asciilifeform Mats_cd03: the issue isn't whether one likes it, but whether any practical substitute (other than 'objdump' and 10-100x the time/sweat) exists.
20:45 Mats_cd03 add it to the bucket list
20:46 copumpkin asciilifeform: have you seen hopper?
20:47 asciilifeform copumpkin: yes. seemed like a joke (at least in comparison)
20:47 copumpkin how so?
20:47 asciilifeform the decompiler appears to be mostly worthless. and the tool runs only under mac os.
20:47 mike_c kakobrekla: i have heard that the das mechanical keyboards are the modern version of the m, and they have a silent version. i tried one for a few minutes once and liked it. but not ergonomic.
20:48 kakobrekla they use mx switches ?
20:48 asciilifeform mike_c: the recent 'model m' clones are based on lexmark's version. somewhat shoddier mechanically than original.
20:48 copumpkin asciilifeform: yeah, the decompiler output seems kinda flaky and silly. The Mac OS thing doesn't seem like a big deal that makes it a "monopoly"
20:48 copumpkin alternatives exist, and buying a mac and hopper can be cheaper than getting hex rays :P
20:48 asciilifeform copumpkin: don't misunderstand - if there were an actual substitute, and it only ran under, whatever, ultrix, that'd count
20:48 mike_c they use mechanical switches. not sure what mx means
20:48 copumpkin but yeah, hex-rays is pretty good
20:48 asciilifeform but there isn't an actual substitute.
20:49 kakobrekla interestingly, the ergonomic model m goes for about a grand on ebay when it pops up from time to time
20:49 mike_c http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/mechanical-keyboard-guide/
20:49 assbot Mechanical Keyboard Guide | Das Keyboard Blog
20:49 Mats_cd03 im not good with ida and i cant comment on substitutes, although i have spent a fair amount of time trying (radare, mostly)
20:49 copumpkin well, from what I've seen (i just started tinkering with hopper a couple of days ago, so I dunno), the basic hopper disassembler interface/functionality isn't all that different from IDA's
20:49 asciilifeform what's 'ergonomic' here ?
20:49 copumpkin asciilifeform: unless you like obscure CPUs
20:50 asciilifeform copumpkin: yes, i do a fair bit of non-x86.
20:50 copumpkin non-ARM, non-x86?
20:50 mike_c kakobrekla: yes. "Cherry MX mechanical key switches with gold contacts"
20:50 asciilifeform copumpkin: yes.
20:50 copumpkin ah, then yes
20:50 Mats_cd03 as well as a project known as vivisect, which is also python like radare
20:50 kakobrekla which ones did you get? theres like 10 kinds.
20:51 kakobrekla (marked by color)
20:51 Mats_cd03 decompiler? not to be seen. but, other RE tools are for the most part available...
20:51 mike_c i tried the http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/ that my coworker was using.
20:51 assbot Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate | Mechanical Keyboard
20:51 mike_c blank keys.. so l33t
20:52 kakobrekla check out also wasd keyborads
20:52 mike_c i can't do non-ergonomic
20:52 BingoBoingo mike_c: It's 2014 already. Why are they censoring the keyboard's clit?
20:52 mike_c drives me nuts
20:52 asciilifeform mike_c: what makes a keyboard 'ergonomic' in your view ?
20:53 mike_c i like the split and raised ones
20:53 mike_c BingoBoingo: you lost me :)
20:53 kakobrekla das kbd does not have such one?
20:54 mike_c i haven't seen it, which is why i don't own one.
20:54 kakobrekla http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_m15/m15-5.jpg
20:55 BingoBoingo mike_c: A proper keyboard (portable machine or not) ought to have a Thinkpad style clit.
20:55 mike_c interesting. i've never tried the split and flat ones
20:55 kakobrekla you can get those.
20:55 mike_c BingoBoingo: you mean the little rubber dot in the middle? you use that thing?
20:56 kakobrekla or make one http://ergodox.org
20:56 assbot 500 - Internal server error.
20:56 mike_c i only use those for bringing to datacenter
20:56 dub <3 the clit
20:56 BingoBoingo mike_c: Occasionally
20:56 dub fuck trackpads
20:56 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 200 @ 0.0028299 = 0.566 BTC [-]
20:57 dub clit is useless without stinkpad scroll key tho
20:57 BingoBoingo What does no one have a scroll button on their keyboards either?
20:57 BingoBoingo !up Mats_cd03
20:57 mike_c kakobrekla: wtf :) no wasd keys?
20:58 kakobrekla for hardcore gamers
20:58 dub lol
20:58 dub extra 1mm throw is making me laggy
20:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 604 @ 0.0028299 = 1.7093 BTC [-]
20:58 kakobrekla mhm
20:58 copumpkin still not mpex?
20:59 copumpkin *no
20:59 dub scam tbh
21:00 mike_c mpex-otc. wadda you want.
21:00 copumpkin I thought it was gonna be monday
21:00 dub kakobrekla: waiting for diehard cs 1.6 players to take fingers back to first knuckle now
21:00 mike_c wtb: s.mpoe @ 0.0005
21:01 kakobrekla lol
21:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 800 @ 0.0026715 = 2.1372 BTC [-] {20}
21:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 249 @ 0.00263257 = 0.6555 BTC [-] {4}
21:18 BingoBoingo Old news becomes new news http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/only-a-few-days-old-openssl-fork-libressl-is-declared-unsafe-for-linux/
21:18 assbot Only a few days old, OpenSSL fork LibreSSL is declared unsafe for Linux | Ars Technica
21:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 255 @ 0.00261288 = 0.6663 BTC [-] {6}
21:29 BingoBoingo !up Mats_cd03
21:43 mircea_popescu so whenever reddit gets inflamed about the injustice of mp, bitbet gets carpetbombed with bets.
21:44 mircea_popescu maybe i should kidnap some of these kids and torture them in my basement, to fix the economy ?
21:46 mircea_popescu Mats_cd03 but nobody uses skype anyways
21:47 mircea_popescu Mats_cd03: SetThreadContext is non-deterministically broken from XP x64 SP0 to Server 2008 R1 x64 SP2 <<< ahahahaha
21:47 mircea_popescu o gawd.
21:48 mircea_popescu i keep buying the funny papers and reading this chan. then i lol here and i am all disappointed in the funny papers.
21:48 mircea_popescu not to mention they're in fucking spanish.
21:48 nubbins` was just about to ask if they carry Hi and Lois
21:49 mircea_popescu nah.
21:49 mircea_popescu Mats_cd03 you know you can dictate.
21:50 BingoBoingo Dictation much like keyboarding is a skill.
21:52 mircea_popescu "{to be honest timmy, having read your attempts to make a pump and dump coin, to also make a HYIP scam.. i feel sorry for anyone losing coin... but not so much with you."
21:53 BingoBoingo Most disturbing part about that report was he had a whole BTC to lose.
21:55 mircea_popescu "i downloaded this from here, and clicked on it,while my virus program was not activ.i just wanted to see"
21:55 mircea_popescu impulse driven "halp i am a student i have no monyz"
21:55 mircea_popescu student is becoming worse than bum.
21:56 BingoBoingo The site hosting the malware in question if you make to the end of the thread atm was revealed to be a "cheat" for some coinflip gambling game.
21:56 mircea_popescu yup
21:58 BingoBoingo You'd think when somone creates the sort of tool he googled and instead recieved a virus for the tool's creator would instead bleed the target dry.
22:01 mircea_popescu mike_c: i like the split and raised ones << i've never used one of the splitsd
22:02 mircea_popescu copumpkin: I thought it was gonna be monday << so did i.
22:03 BingoBoingo !up hanbot
22:03 mircea_popescu http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/only-a-few-days-old-openssl-fork-libressl-is-declared-unsafe-for-linux/ << look at that, it was the rng.
22:03 assbot Only a few days old, OpenSSL fork LibreSSL is declared unsafe for Linux | Ars Technica
22:04 hanbot thx BB
22:04 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well, it was born knowing it would be the RNG. The problem is do the devs make shims or does Linuxen fix itself
22:04 BingoBoingo hanbot: yw
22:06 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: In the comments you can see the new psyops angle, "The cruft was good! Mysterymeat Nourishes!"
22:06 mircea_popescu theo's response is pretty weak too.
22:08 BingoBoingo Yeah
22:08 BingoBoingo The problem of taking action to fix a problem is that at some point you will have to take more action.
22:08 BingoBoingo Because you now own 1+N more problems.
22:12 cazalla yo i heard you like #bitcoin-assets so we put mircea_popescu in your dreams so you can #bitcoin-assets while you sleep, no homo
22:13 mircea_popescu wait wut ?
22:14 BingoBoingo http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140715120259 << "The question now was how to integrate it. OpenBSD developers don't like huge diffs for a very good reason. After fixing the inode format and adding new flags, Ted pointed out the ancient rule "whoever touched it last now becomes the maintainer" was valid even here."
22:14 assbot g2k14: Martin Pelikan on ext4, filesystems in general
22:14 cazalla mircea_popescu, so i had this dream about you, in a lobby, it was eyes wide shut-esque except you wouldn't let me come upstairs where the women were but then you sent 2 down to me at the bar so i was content
22:15 mircea_popescu pankkake so how much does a bernakoin go for yet ?
22:15 mircea_popescu cazalla o.O
22:16 mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/PDdkcGR.gif
22:16 cazalla logs were a good read this morning
22:17 BingoBoingo Eh, sometimes I have nightmares where truffles is still on BA and somehow IPO'd his hatred of reading.
22:17 BingoBoingo ;;seen truffles
22:17 gribble truffles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, and 29 seconds ago: <truffles> tell me when the experiment is over
22:17 mircea_popescu ow god truffles.
22:17 hanbot ba nightmares would make a pretty good compendium
22:18 mircea_popescu did you get some ?
22:20 cazalla who me? no, wasn't that sort of dream
22:20 mircea_popescu no lol, hanbot
22:20 mircea_popescu of course you didn't get some. you're married.
22:20 cazalla tell me about it
22:21 mircea_popescu http://bitbet.us/bet/994/btc-to-top-800-before-august/
22:21 assbot BitBet - BTC to top $800 before August :: 2.7 B (24%) on Yes, 8.73 B (76%) on No | closing in 1 week 5 days | weight: 81`867 (100`000 to 1)
22:21 mircea_popescu 3:1 huh
22:21 mircea_popescu ;;ticker
22:22 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 621.87, Best ask: 624.48, Bid-ask spread: 2.61000, Last trade: 624.48, 24 hour volume: 3502.82343466, 24 hour low: 616.09, 24 hour high: 626.25, 24 hour vwap: 622.077369513
22:22 mike_c ;;calc 3500*[ticker --last]
22:22 gribble 2185680
22:23 mircea_popescu ;;calc [ticker --last]*[ticker --last]
22:23 gribble 389975.2704
22:23 asciilifeform it was the rng << snore. big fat surprise.
22:24 asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/PDdkcGR.gif << what's the reaction here?
22:25 * danielpbarron is guessing the colored gas is ionized
22:26 mircea_popescu no idea rly.
22:26 * BingoBoingo is guessing 70's special effects work
22:26 asciilifeform looks more like chromatography paper + dyes.
22:26 asciilifeform (time-lapse film)
22:27 nubbins` i was gonna say colored oil spheres colliding underwater
22:27 nubbins` i guess i still am saying it
22:27 Rassah benkay: this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. // actually this is what is being suggested that people do to create secure paper wallets. I am suggesting that ours is comparable. At the least because people who use that method don't check the RNGs of the systems they use, and at the most because we don't actually use an RNG chip, and use our own source of randomness.
22:28 benkay nobody in this room had suggested that.
22:28 benkay latinate dudebro do you even strawman?
22:30 Rassah benkay: I didn't say that is what is being suggested here. That is, in fact, what is being suggested in places all over outside of here. No one has suggested anything here, other than that the method I am involved wit is worse than...
22:31 cazalla "People think that Bitcoin is too expensive, and they would rather purchase Litecoins. " https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21124.0
22:31 assbot Litecoin's silver analogy
22:32 nubbins` i think that a car is too expensive, i would rather purchase a sandwich
22:32 nubbins` can't drive to work in a sandwich? who cares!
22:35 Rassah It's not even that. The two are just arbitrary measures. It's more like, I think driving at 105kmh is too fast. I'll just drive at 65mph instead
22:37 nubbins` i think repairing my broken relationship with my son is too hard. i'll just have a daughter instead
22:47 decimation re: rolling dice to generate RSA keypair << this is not straightforward at all, and in general you are going to end up seeding some kind of RNG to produce your primes to test
22:52 benkay Rassah: saying that doesn't make it any less of a retarded strawman argument in this context.
22:53 benkay <BingoBoingo> Eh, sometimes I have nightmares where truffles is still on BA and somehow IPO'd his hatred of reading. // interestingly, truffles is a female.
22:54 Rassah benkay: a lot of tings said on the topic of that Entropy device have been very retarded
22:56 benkay mostly on the topic of getting entropy out of sram imho
22:58 danielpbarron Rassah, you interested in selling your BTC for cash in the mail on a regular basis? I am very interested
22:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 138 @ 0.00420949 = 0.5809 BTC [-] {5}
23:03 mircea_popescu <nubbins`> i think that a car is too expensive, i would rather purchase a sandwich <
23:03 mthreat Rassah et al: Would an accelerometer be a good source of entropy? "shake to randomize"
23:03 mircea_popescu nubbins` omfg dude i laughed so hard at your stupid driven sandwich i actually puked a little.
23:04 mircea_popescu im not even making this shit up
23:05 mircea_popescu decimation he prolly means just for the entropy.
23:05 mircea_popescu benkay now how would you know that.
23:05 Rassah mthreat: Not as much. Since the motions will be repettitive, you will get only a small amount of variance from that. We had considered something similar, with maybe having to press a button a bunch of times and use the timing diference, but it adds an insignificant amount compared to what we get from the chip already
23:05 benkay intel boss
23:05 mircea_popescu mthreat no. this because the high bytes are too predictable (shake) and the low bytes too predictable (cheap accelerometer fingerprint)
23:06 benkay mircea_popescu: re: truffles?
23:06 mircea_popescu yes.
23:06 benkay conversations.
23:06 asciilifeform nitpick: anything you can 'seed' is not an rng.
23:07 benkay hee hee hee i got the rng flamewards going again
23:07 mircea_popescu benkay eh what, you can tell.
23:07 * asciilifeform not really awake enough for a good flaemfest. but will point out that mechanical rng setups are prone to wear effects.
23:08 decimation ascii sorry prng
23:08 mircea_popescu anyway, that's been all for me. later all.
23:08 asciilifeform decimation: why would you want to produce weaponized rsa primes from a prng ?
23:09 decimation you wouldn't, if you could avoid it
23:09 decimation ideally you want natural entropy
23:09 decimation and rolling dice would take days
23:16 asciilifeform dice << http://youtu.be/srDronvs3L4?t=53s
↖
23:16 assbot 6 45 662 28 2013 - YouTube
23:17 asciilifeform ^ notice he says 'лототрон' ~= 'lottotron.' the original, in fact, 'лохотрон' - chumpatron.
23:17 decimation lol
23:17 decimation is that the russian powerball?
23:17 asciilifeform originally soviet.
23:18 asciilifeform they've used this kind of 'rng' for decades.
23:18 decimation say you need at least 2 megabits to come up with a 2048 bit prime
23:19 decimation you are only getting ~12 bits per 5d6
23:19 decimation the chumpatron would be more efficient
23:21 asciilifeform i'll take the liberty of quoting the russian 'law re: lotteries.'
23:21 decimation it would be interesting in the soviet version if a coin flip determined whether you got 1 trillion rubbles or a lifetime sentence to the gulag for bourgeois greed
23:22 asciilifeform 'Лототрону не должны предоставляться скрытые (недекларированные) возможности, и в нем не должны содержаться информационные массивы, узлы или агрегаты, недоступные для осуществления экспертизы.' ~= 'a lottotron must not contain hidden (undeclared) func
23:22 asciilifeform tionality, and it must not contain information storage arrays, units, or systems inaccessible to expert examination.'
23:23 asciilifeform 'В лототроне не должны использоваться процедуры, реализующие алгоритмы, которые позволяли бы предопределять результат розыгрыша призового фонда до начала такого розыгрыша.' ~= 'a lottotron must not employ procedures implementing algorithms which would permit a pre-de
23:23 decimation seems perfectly reasonable, except are the internal parts open to examination by the kulaks who buy tickets?
23:23 asciilifeform termination of the result of the prize drawing prior to said drawing.'
23:23 asciilifeform in theory.
23:24 decimation well, everything is deterministic if you have enough information
23:25 asciilifeform seems reasonable re: a lottery, yes? but then you get people who for some mysterious reason disagree when it comes to crypto.
23:27 decimation quite so. I think the yearning to "see" the data being generated (like from the chumpatron) is the right idea
23:28 asciilifeform decimation: likewise, if doubt arises regarding some component, it can be removed, examined, replaced with nominally identical one
23:30 decimation it's hard to find good documentation re: how the hell the linux /dev/random pool works exactly
23:30 asciilifeform decimation: 'the source is the doc'
23:31 decimation yeah, and when you start looking at how the sausage is made it starts to make you feel queezy
23:37 decimation https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/char/random.c
23:37 assbot linux/drivers/char/random.c at master torvalds/linux GitHub
23:38 decimation it's probably okay for many purposes but the thing reeks of being a hack
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