Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2018-06-11 | 2018-06-13 →
00:38 lobbes !!up fromloper
00:38 deedbot fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 41 minutes ~
01:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, it's the obvious vuln
~ 59 minutes ~
02:20 mircea_popescu !!up epony
02:20 deedbot epony voiced for 30 minutes.
02:20 epony oh thanks
02:21 mircea_popescu who might you be ?
02:21 epony a person, reading the blog at loper..
02:21 epony not previously known
02:22 mircea_popescu i can tell you'll be real popular here.
02:22 epony not really
~ 5 hours 52 minutes ~
08:15 deedbot http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/073-prikoke.html << The Tar Pit - The story of Prikoke
~ 43 minutes ~
08:58 asciilifeform !!up apt-get
08:58 deedbot apt-get voiced for 30 minutes.
08:58 asciilifeform !!up xdeller_
08:58 deedbot xdeller_ voiced for 30 minutes.
08:59 asciilifeform !!up fitzsim
08:59 deedbot fitzsim voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 51 minutes ~
09:50 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the cr50 swine pits, https://archive.li/l2Env
09:51 asciilifeform !!up loper_os_cr50
09:51 deedbot loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
09:51 asciilifeform lol
10:02 asciilifeform !!up loper_os_cr50
10:02 deedbot loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
10:02 asciilifeform aite from nao on they only get voice if they ask, politely.
10:03 asciilifeform fucking insects.
10:06 mircea_popescu i thought you were having fun!
10:06 asciilifeform with the connect/disconnect subhumans?!
10:07 mircea_popescu how could you not be happy your article was popular!!! didn't it get a lot of visitors ?!?!?! http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756992 ?!
10:07 a111 Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal
10:07 asciilifeform lol.
10:07 mircea_popescu who could have predicted getting a large number of morons that can't figure out ip addressing isn't worth anyone's time ?!?!!?
10:08 mircea_popescu IF NORMAL PEOPLE DIDN'T READ LOPER YOU WOULD NOT BE ACCOMPLISHING YOUR GOAL!!11
10:09 asciilifeform fughet 'normal people', idea was possibly the asexuate google devs have defector in the ranks
10:09 asciilifeform but admittedly tall order.
10:10 mircea_popescu nah, the problem is that it consists of amstan orcs by mass. they're so enamoured with what the mud-toed grandmother back in rural orcistan thinks about "grandson works at google", they'll defect after the anal rape, maybe.
10:10 asciilifeform btw on reread of the sores, raising the b4 pin is not expected to do anything productive, it merely sets the port config to the same default state the three 0 strapping pins already set it to in my box
10:10 mircea_popescu you realise there's still idiots in rural kuban / albania / we keeping in ancient closets receipts from the local MMMs ?
10:10 asciilifeform prolly
10:11 mircea_popescu same exact fucking thing, we'll have long buried alphabet and they'll still have hidden under dirty mattresses "certificates of achievement"
10:11 mircea_popescu heck, idiots had medals from the tsar long after 1920.
10:11 asciilifeform this tsar is still making payroll, last i heard
10:11 mircea_popescu last thing normie muppet will do, no matter what, is admit he was a normie muppet.
10:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, really ? because last i heard, from tu quoque no less, he... wasn't making payroll.
10:11 asciilifeform google?
10:12 mircea_popescu yes.
10:12 asciilifeform they have these slaves, they work for food and roof, etc. and they aint dead yet, corpses can't post disinfo in forums etc. so ergo they still make payroll..
10:12 mircea_popescu mr "oh i don't wanna work for google to pay 5x in rent what their salary is". or we dun remember that now ?
10:13 asciilifeform well i dun want to work at foxconn either, lol
10:13 asciilifeform but foxconn is still 'somehow' in biznis
10:13 mircea_popescu the notion that corpses put disinfo on forums because google pays them to is not unlike the notion idiot chinese teenager spams because the sinospam conspiraci pays him to.
10:13 mircea_popescu they don't need to be paid, that's what an idiot is. who pays the wind to pull down your barn ?
10:13 mircea_popescu review that excellent harlan whine. where is it.
10:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-02#655357 << there.
10:14 a111 Logged on 2014-05-02 12:35 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE << here's the real story.
10:14 mircea_popescu "what is mgm, with a patch on the eye on the corner begging for nickles ? they repackage free shit idiots gave them in the hopes of '''making name for selves''' and pretend like they;re in business"
10:14 asciilifeform btw lulzy, https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+log << work log (includes all 3 firmwares)
10:15 asciilifeform and such gems as 'make code build with gcc 8.1'
10:15 mircea_popescu that's 100% what the shitstack is ; and i bet you amstan for instance is in shock over there in his silent dounce corner, "omfg, these people are impressed ~negatively~ with my political committments ?!?!?! they despisew me ?!!??! how could this be omfg"
10:15 asciilifeform i doubt that he has any political thought process at all
10:16 asciilifeform does amoeba ?
10:16 asciilifeform or simply swims to where the food is.
10:16 mircea_popescu socrates says, not can has no political thought.
10:16 mircea_popescu and yes, amoeba is staunchly republican. no pantsuit amoeba available.
10:16 mircea_popescu perversity only starts from a certain brainbox cubage onwards.
10:16 asciilifeform for the folx 'worth weight in pig carcass', pantsuit is where the food is.
10:17 asciilifeform so they swim.
10:17 mircea_popescu this is a tenuous point.
10:17 mircea_popescu but, maybe.
10:18 asciilifeform orc, who oughta be selling cigarettes out of a suitcase at the sunday market , instead taking home google payola, etc
10:18 mircea_popescu it's unclear this is the case.
10:19 mircea_popescu seems more often "orc, who could have been lord, instead sells cigs out of a suitcase".
10:19 asciilifeform these also.
10:19 asciilifeform they exist in parallel.
10:20 mircea_popescu it's not clear to me google much hires your type, unless they're mamies.
10:20 mircea_popescu young orc male generally my type ; but anyway.
10:20 asciilifeform well tbh i dun know the amstan d00d at all, can't say precisely whose type
10:21 asciilifeform can only suspect, that he's 'miami-seeking' type.
10:21 mircea_popescu i'm just going by the stereotype. he dun look like jackie brown, he's not enjoying a +ev situation with usg.whatever.
10:21 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1822354 << updated, but mp-wp_comments-fix also requires an updated. right now it's showing missing antecedents..
10:21 a111 Logged on 2018-06-11 02:48 hanbot: ^ phf please to update, apologies for the hassle.
10:21 * asciilifeform brb,tea
10:22 mircea_popescu phf, looked to me like a regrind (patrch got absorbed)
10:23 phf oh that was the idea, kk
10:23 mircea_popescu not even a bad way to do all this, avoid confusion.
~ 18 minutes ~
10:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, btw, do you want to see what to my eyes became epitomical "get this to compile with gcc 8.1" code ?
10:42 phf (to clarify for logs, mp-wp patchset now, correctly, has reground mp-wp_genesis only)
10:42 mircea_popescu it'll make your eyes water.
10:43 mircea_popescu btw how's lyf treatin ya phf ?
10:45 phf it's good. i went up to new paltz (upstate new york) for rock climbing and to see an old friend.
10:47 mircea_popescu visiting the remnants of ye olde jew empire huh.
10:47 phf they do have a lot of beautiful land
10:48 mircea_popescu paltz, for the curious, is idish for the german palatinate.
10:48 mircea_popescu ie, previous lordship.
10:49 phf my friend, whose father is a professor of divinity, was eager to inform me that the village was founded by huguenots
10:50 phf of course these days it's just a generic american smalltown
10:52 phf it's a beautiful area, an hour and a half train ride from manhattan along hudson, into the mountains, views of catskills
10:54 mircea_popescu this may even be true. the exact meaning of "huguenot" in the period, much like "protestant" etc, is a lot more diverse than contemporaries (like to) think.
10:55 mircea_popescu but the notion of french huguenots speaking plattdeustch...
10:55 mircea_popescu there's this joke in romania that "if you hear a hungarian speaking foreing languages you're looking at a jew".
10:56 mircea_popescu (plattdeutsch is how you get from pfalz to paltz ; very similar to how idish works... or rather worked, it's pretty much dead.)
10:56 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823749 << i'll bite. what was it
10:56 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 14:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, btw, do you want to see what to my eyes became epitomical "get this to compile with gcc 8.1" code ?
10:59 phf mircea_popescu: that as always makes a lot of sense. i knew that the original was an area in germany, but i didn't give much further thought to the obvious modification
11:00 asciilifeform revisiting upstack -- currently asciilifeform has 0 useful leads whatsoever on cr50 ( finished archaeological dig through the published src, found no obvious hole , yet )
11:05 asciilifeform https://github.com/coreboot/chrome-ec/commit/de007979d37e2ad1ba7354df55fb267d858d5028#diff-1145f263256c923716d2b8eade2f6689
11:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, look at the barf http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/niDUM/?raw=true / http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HZcNV/?raw=true etc ; then look at the routines in which it ends up looping infinitely. then try and say why.
11:06 mircea_popescu phf, linguistics and phonetics is a major solvent for post-medieval mysteries. in some cases even earlier. a lot hinges on what kind of attic or aeolian or whatever other obscure way to say o and u someone employed.
11:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: loox like some sort of nonsense with 'smart pointers' ?
11:08 mircea_popescu also, pfalz is not per se an area in germany ; it's a bunch of areas. originally [holders of] palatine lands elected the emperor, so it's really akin to saying portland-tmsr and seattle-tmsr. tmsr isn't a plage, it's a designation.
11:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, 8 layers of smartness.
11:08 mircea_popescu literally nobody knows how it works.
11:08 mircea_popescu i have half a mind to somehow extract it for display
11:08 mircea_popescu the only problem is... i don't actually know how.
11:12 mircea_popescu in any case it's very much "this is what foss is", a token and an icon.
11:13 mircea_popescu the modern equivalent of those medievally fixed timepieces, compensated, recompensated and re-recompensated until the count of moving parts exceeded the "engineer's" capacity to count.
11:13 mod6 mornin'
11:13 mircea_popescu heya.
11:13 asciilifeform cpp specifically attracts the worst of the worst, in re complexity cancer, this was obvious long enuff ago that naggum noted it
11:13 mircea_popescu sadly.
11:14 asciilifeform the only reason it did not spread even farther outside of microshit (yes, the epicenter, despite not being originator) is that cpp projects tend to collapse under own weight too quickly to hit market
11:14 mircea_popescu these idiots (project something or the other, i forget) spent ten years to reach this pinnacle ; and the whole time wondering why their ~server~ can't hold more than five or so people connected.
11:15 mircea_popescu THEN they "moved on to unity". because "it's slicker visually".
~ 17 minutes ~
11:32 mircea_popescu meamwhile in teh sexuate chambers, https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_man7wlGkMS1rgrl09o1_1280.jpg
11:36 mircea_popescu !!up loper_os_cr50
11:36 deedbot loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
11:37 mircea_popescu and who might you be, 12th loper_os_cr50 ?
11:42 loper_os_cr50 A curious person who is interested in owning my own hardware instead of it pwning me. Found the channel through http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433
11:43 mircea_popescu alright. see the topic / read the logs / register a rsa key etc.
11:45 mircea_popescu and in other "only in this country" lulz, i see a dark halfinch long form squrrying under the bottle washer behind the kitchen skin tap. so i'm all, you know if you've ever lived in new york, or buenos aires, or generally a large town, "fuck you, you little bitch" kill! kill! kill! mode.
11:45 mircea_popescu turns out to have been... A FUCKING MOTH. nectar eating night guy.
11:46 mircea_popescu goes right with the "about the size of a... scorpion, with a dangly apendage behind, looking like a ... scorpion tail" girl saw yest... FLYING.
11:48 mircea_popescu oh, also, lest i forget : see alf ? you just don't do the upping correctly, is all.
11:58 asciilifeform lol
12:01 asciilifeform in re cr50 -- if we find which fpga was the basis, it may be possible to craft pad-for-pad replacement for the fritz.
12:01 asciilifeform ( if not, still possible, but will cost much, much more , possibly making the whole project -ev )
12:02 mircea_popescu eh, it's not clear it's worth soldering anything to begin with
12:02 asciilifeform right
12:03 asciilifeform but if can put a $5 fpga in its place, it's a 15 min job.
12:03 asciilifeform incl. unscrewing the case.
12:03 mircea_popescu marginally may work.
12:03 mircea_popescu i suppose you just buy a live-in slavegirl to do the job eventually.
12:04 asciilifeform aha, with caveats (i.e. 1 or 2 in 10 boards will crack and die)
12:04 asciilifeform could prolly be subcontracted out to chinese.
12:04 asciilifeform fwiw the board runs from 20 to 70 bux, on the market
12:05 asciilifeform ( for how long, nobody knows )
12:05 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823753 << Aconcagua is only a bus, boat, and bus away from here
12:05 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 14:45 phf: it's good. i went up to new paltz (upstate new york) for rock climbing and to see an old friend.
12:06 mircea_popescu meanwhile somewhere else, https://78.media.tumblr.com/e0b61a17bc8de3702a7e1807d3181e7a/tumblr_inline_obpz0xusJg1rhjx1l_500.gif
12:07 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the cr50 swine pits, https://archive.li/fftWm
12:07 mircea_popescu i think i like mine better.
12:08 mircea_popescu i mean, it's the same thing, but at least mine got tits.
12:08 asciilifeform lolyes
12:08 asciilifeform that must be what folx mean by 'smoking cock'
12:10 asciilifeform re costs -- can't speak for other folx, but i'd happily pay, say, $1k , for a proper arm64 lappy
12:10 asciilifeform or even 2
12:11 asciilifeform ( better yet, ice40 lappy. but 'if wishes were horses' etc )
12:11 mircea_popescu i haven't identified a use for laptop yet besides "dumbphone replacement for aspiring slavegirls".
12:12 asciilifeform what can i say, i like to work out of doors
12:12 asciilifeform ( as does, iirc, phf, and possibly a few other l1 folk )
12:12 mircea_popescu maybe you're a horse altogether.
12:12 asciilifeform horse, donkey, whichever.
12:13 asciilifeform and rk chipset is , by itself, surprisingly friendly.
12:14 asciilifeform ( seems like recent coreboot even abolishes the orig vendor's dram init turd )
12:14 mircea_popescu they have a replacement ?
12:14 asciilifeform aha
12:15 asciilifeform asciilifeform has not yet tested.
12:15 mircea_popescu this is pretty cool.
12:15 mircea_popescu iirc dram init was a major issue.
12:16 asciilifeform given as rk has no idea which dram a given board maker will want to use, they made the timings settable
12:16 asciilifeform sorta like on pc northbridge
12:18 mircea_popescu not bad.
12:20 asciilifeform it is theoretically possible to turn rk3328-roc-cc ( as in pizarro pilot plant ) into a portable of a kind. one can get miniature hdmi lcd, etc. but there is no convenient way to handle power; it expects 5v, and has no provisions for interrogating battery level, one would have to build something , rather gnarly.
12:21 mircea_popescu regulators aren't expensive. and nothing wrong with 5v from battery either.
12:21 mircea_popescu in fact, higher voltage is arguably better.
12:21 asciilifeform expense is not the issue, but rather the 'how much battery do i have' indicator.
12:21 mircea_popescu but the last thing anyone fucking wants is an even smaller laptop.
12:21 asciilifeform and the board has a linear reg, wastes current.
12:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, that does NOT need to be part of the computer.
12:21 mircea_popescu have a fucking mechanical gauge, steampunk all the way
12:22 asciilifeform dunwork with lithium cells
12:22 asciilifeform sorta why i dislike them
12:22 asciilifeform they output ~constant voltage until dead
12:22 * mircea_popescu is reminded of the suitcases joke
12:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i didn;t mean VOLTMETER. i meant, separate doohickey.
12:23 asciilifeform certainly.
12:24 mircea_popescu heck, some actuallty even have gauge on themselves. i've seen this. it's not expensive or hard to make.
12:24 * asciilifeform had some headaches in BingoBoingostan with x60 lappy (had to bring ~something~ to use for setup) , had to connect from a few places that had no mains, and battery was limiting factor. and x60 is heavy, occupied valuable launch capsule mass )
12:25 asciilifeform and if i had lost it, would be a bitch to replace
12:25 * mircea_popescu could almost go for a 400 x 450 mm laptop chassis, provided it includes a proper sized kbd.
12:26 asciilifeform pretty much whole trip asciilifeform was thinking 'mmm, if only had c101pa...'
12:27 mircea_popescu Display size: 17.6" × 13.2" = 232.32in² (44.7cm × 33.53cm = 1498.84cm²) at 79.55 PPI, 0.3193mm dot pitch, 6327 PPI² << get a sxga+ in there.
12:27 asciilifeform the old ratty boeing 757s lacked mains plugs too
12:28 mircea_popescu heck, with modern tech you can prolly go >1mn ppi^2.
12:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: display can be sourced, i actually have several 'naked' display here for experiments. the bulk of the headache is the kbd , chassis, power. any way you cut it, chassis becomes a multi-kg monster 'luggable'
12:29 mircea_popescu something like the ipad retina, but in 45/35 rather than bs 15 x 12 cm they got.
12:29 asciilifeform ( which , i get, dun matter worth a shit for mircea_popescu's applications. )
12:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, there is such a thing as people with cars and pack animals.
12:30 asciilifeform right, and most of the time asciilifeform goes in cars and pack animals also
12:30 asciilifeform but in this particular case had to go in pay-per-kg launcher
12:30 mircea_popescu and moreover, i think it is important to MAKE THIS A DIFFERENTIATION POINT.
12:30 mircea_popescu "no machinery, no slaves, wtf do you want ?"
12:31 mircea_popescu "grandfather's sword won't work for you until you get a horse like your grandmother."
12:32 asciilifeform https://archive.li/Qq2kM << classical mircea_popescu-style laptop.
12:33 mircea_popescu lol. wtf does it come with, the powerplant ?
12:33 asciilifeform pc iron
12:33 asciilifeform you can still get these, apparently.
12:34 asciilifeform ( or, if you like carpentry, make... )
12:34 mircea_popescu lmao. srsly.
12:34 asciilifeform not so great for air travel tho.
~ 47 minutes ~
13:21 ave1 I ordered this one, https://www.pine64.org/?product=rockpro64-4gb-single-board-computer, today. It supports a pcie 4 lane card, so I will try to use it for a desktop replacement.
13:26 asciilifeform ave1: this is a kind of 'plus' version of the pizarro rk, yes
13:26 asciilifeform ( costs ~2x )
13:29 ave1 yes, it's the same chip as in the notebook, also cost more (and will be even more with the european import tax added)
13:30 ave1 as an aside, I've been readin the google code for the cr50 but I also did not find any obvious holes so far
13:30 ave1 reading
13:32 asciilifeform iirc there's another 3399 board, 'firefly'
13:33 ave1 the libre computer board is in the pizarro rk? it seems to be 80$ for 4G. This is the same price, for the rockpro64.
13:34 asciilifeform i was never able to locate the 4g ver of the 3328
13:34 asciilifeform the 2g was about fiddybux in small qt
13:35 ave1 aha, yes I did not try to order the 4g version (also the 2g version is twice as expensive on the german amazon)
13:43 asciilifeform ave1: the pci slot in 'pro' is nifty
13:44 asciilifeform ave1: this board is potentially good candidate for mircea_popescu-style 'laptop'
13:44 asciilifeform ave1: did you get the sata peripheral also ?
13:45 mircea_popescu moar like backtop, as in https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/22/42/e62242f22f740b99d2206ae187d3eb6d.jpg
13:45 asciilifeform imho main weakness of my rk boards is lack of sata
13:45 asciilifeform lol
13:51 ave1 asciilifeform, no I did not get the board, it seems to me a standard pcie x4 slot and cards for these can be easily had locally
13:52 asciilifeform aa
13:52 asciilifeform theoretically normal pc sata board oughta work
13:52 asciilifeform so long as it doesn't carry x86 firmware on board
~ 29 minutes ~
14:22 asciilifeform !!up yesplease
14:22 deedbot yesplease voiced for 30 minutes.
14:22 asciilifeform yesplease: hello?
14:22 mircea_popescu it's nikki on a trip.
14:22 asciilifeform aaaa
14:25 mircea_popescu meanwhile in other behavioural modifications, https://78.media.tumblr.com/6f370a2fda4c06089b490db594ffa4c9/tumblr_ob9uwyrIYI1uri6xho1_400.gif
14:37 asciilifeform in other negative results, small ra-226 isotope capsule had no measurable effect on cr50 .
14:38 asciilifeform possibly chip package includes shielding of some form.
14:39 asciilifeform ( imho would be interesting to try hard xray, but currently i dun have with what. )
14:48 * asciilifeform considers idea of proclaiming a 1 btc prize for a working break of cr50 . any l1 folk interested in contributing to the prize chest , and/or overseeing the refereeing ?
14:51 asciilifeform !!up bastard0
14:51 deedbot bastard0 voiced for 30 minutes.
14:51 asciilifeform bastard0: hello ?
14:52 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
14:53 asciilifeform hm we dun have a working heathenticker no moar, do we.
14:54 asciilifeform !!up gribble
14:54 deedbot gribble voiced for 30 minutes.
14:54 asciilifeform ;;ticker --market all
14:54 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6710.85, vol: 7122.16 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 6967.0, vol: 574.76 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6696.8, vol: 20943.68 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 6696.85, vol: 8004.02 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6701.4, vol: 3395.15 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 6702.88, vol: 3265.19 | Volume-weighted last average: 6703.53
14:55 asciilifeform !!down gribble
14:59 asciilifeform hey phf , didja ever get your debug plug going ?
15:14 asciilifeform !!up cnomad
15:14 deedbot cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
15:14 cnomad hey
15:14 asciilifeform hello?
15:14 asciilifeform cnomad: what brings you to #trilema ?
15:14 cnomad your blog post brought me here
15:15 cnomad was curious
15:15 asciilifeform cnomad: please read the logs -- http://btcbase.org/log/ -- and make use of the search, before asking q
15:15 asciilifeform chances are, it's been answered
15:16 cnomad thanks, no qs at the moment
15:16 asciilifeform cnomad: so what is it you're curious about then
15:17 cnomad I don;t have any _specific_ qs at the moment, but i do some IC and firmware RE. I don't even know what this channel is about before joining
15:18 asciilifeform cnomad: consider reading the chan subj line
15:18 cnomad it's not very clear
15:18 cnomad is this a technical channel or a political or...?
15:18 asciilifeform hey mircea_popescu , didja hear, apparently it's not clear
15:18 asciilifeform cnomad: a bit of both
15:19 asciilifeform matters technical and political are not in reality separable.
15:20 asciilifeform ( or rather, the mistaken notion that they are separable, is promulgated by the great satan. )
15:21 cnomad yeah
15:21 cnomad you guys have a manifesto or something?
15:21 asciilifeform http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt probably closest thing.
15:22 asciilifeform followed by http://trilema.com/2016/cia-factbook-the-most-serene-republic/ .
15:23 asciilifeform if you stick around until mircea_popescu wakes up, he will elaborate.
15:23 asciilifeform cnomad: meanwhile, tell us a bit about yourself. reverse engineer ?
15:24 asciilifeform for profit ? for sport ? both ?
15:25 cnomad both
15:25 cnomad mostly contracting
15:26 asciilifeform are you interested in / familiar with cr50 in particular ? or heard of it for 1st time from the article
15:26 cnomad currently working on liberating a tl866a programmer, but mostly i do RE and pwning for various security chips
15:26 asciilifeform ha i use tl866 right here
15:26 douchebag Interesting
15:26 cnomad I knew about it before, and when I did it was curious noone wrote about it then
15:27 asciilifeform cnomad: you will probably not be surprised to hear that google doctors its search results.
15:27 cnomad yeah
15:27 asciilifeform so yes, generally you won't hear what they do not want you to hear, if google search if your main source.
15:27 cnomad i don't use google
15:28 asciilifeform hence how you found article, i will guess. good.
15:28 asciilifeform cnomad: please consider registering a pgp key with deedbot :
15:28 asciilifeform !!help
15:28 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
15:28 asciilifeform cnomad: then i will rate you, and you will be able to speak when there is no one to manually give you voice.
15:28 asciilifeform and you can start developing reputation.
15:29 cnomad i don't want to develop reputation, just wanna say hi and observe
15:29 asciilifeform then you will probably be satisfied with reading the log. typically it takes 6month of reading, to grasp what's going on.
15:29 cnomad ok
15:30 asciilifeform however, if you wish to work with the people here ( and this is where the serious coin lives ) you will want to get in the deedbot wot.
15:31 asciilifeform you do not have to use your meatspace name, or anything of the kind. simply need gpg key, one that you won't lose.
15:31 diana_coman cnomad, do you specifically want to *not* develop a reputation here ?
15:32 cnomad im a go-with-the-flow kinda guy. rep will naturally follow
15:33 asciilifeform it won't, if you ain't in the wot.
15:33 asciilifeform until you are in the wot, 'you' do not exist, it is not difficult to hijack a fleanode nick.
15:33 cnomad i see
15:33 asciilifeform nor will anyone attempt to communicate in confidence with you, without gpg pubkey.
15:33 diana_coman cnomad, precisely; just... it needs a recipient to accumulate in; basically how is anyone to say it's same *you* next time you join?
15:34 asciilifeform so, for example, i am considering declaring a btc bounty for cr50 break. but it will only be available to folks in the wot, for the very obvious reason .
15:35 asciilifeform ( how am i to know whom to pay ? and if the magic answer is sent plaintext, it will land in the fleanode nsa trap and immediately get shared with the enemy. )
15:35 cnomad ahh
15:35 cnomad fair enough
15:36 asciilifeform cnomad: there is a www front-end for the wot; this , for example : http://wot.deedbot.org/17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7.html is me.
15:36 cnomad ok here's a sha512sum for now, i'll regsiter w/ your bot a bit later
15:36 cnomad 7d3ca5d5e5e09bdc3ebf53017a883e2c10710fe5edf8f46838ff5e6b5bf33e6c031554b959badb9ef8a0bca772a6df2c8e677227143ea46d3f36d28b43e26135
15:37 cnomad so if you question my identity i'll give you the non hashed text
15:37 asciilifeform this doesn't do anything for us. but do consider !!register'ing a gpg key.
15:37 cnomad k
15:37 asciilifeform all you gotta do is to put it where ( http://somewhere/yourkey.txt, not https ) deedbot can see it, and then !!register thaturl .
15:37 cnomad how much are you offering for liberating a cr50? fyi, it'll be a _hard_ target
15:38 asciilifeform cnomad: not determined yet. at least 1btc.
15:38 cnomad ok
15:38 asciilifeform out of curiosity, cnomad , do you think this is laughably small ?
15:39 cnomad yeah
15:39 cnomad i mean
15:40 asciilifeform hm?
15:40 asciilifeform how large a bounty would pique your interest, cnomad ?
15:40 cnomad if the goal is to liberate it for public use, then it's easier to justify paying less than market rate
15:40 cnomad hmm
15:41 asciilifeform well yes, for public use. with the caveat that we will not be giving the curative pill to google.
15:41 asciilifeform we will make cured machines available, at reasonable cost.
15:41 asciilifeform ( if the jailbreak is published openly, the hole is likely to be closed in short order. this prolly does not need explaining. )
15:44 cnomad If someone popped this chip, I'd value it at _least_ 200k USD. we're talking about invasive analysis that requires equipment, weeks of non-stop work, and experience
15:44 asciilifeform !!up cnomad
15:44 deedbot cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
15:44 asciilifeform for my purposes, a proper break is when i can load in arbitrary firmware in place of the vendor's.
15:45 asciilifeform into all currently available cr50 boards, but in particular the c101pa.
15:45 cnomad especially since this is a generic security chip with potentially more serious applications
15:45 asciilifeform sure.
15:45 cnomad oh
15:45 asciilifeform i do not particularly need extraction of user-loaded tpm crapola, it does not do anything for me.
15:46 cnomad but if you re-write the firmware, you own the tpm
15:46 asciilifeform ( though as i understand it will also be possible as a side-effect of any general break. )
15:46 asciilifeform correct.
15:46 asciilifeform simply must point out, if as side effect of the break, the user-loaded data is nulled, this is not a problem for us.
15:46 asciilifeform so it is just as good to break the 'rma lock' mechanism, as the firmware verification, as i currently understand it.
15:47 cnomad gotcha
15:47 asciilifeform the objective is to neuter, once and for all, the nsa master key mechanism.
15:47 asciilifeform then, e.g. the c101pa, becomes a pretty useful, general-purpose arm64 box.
15:47 asciilifeform but until then, it is a kind of iphone
15:48 cnomad heh
15:48 asciilifeform re 'weeks of nonstop work', understand that the break must be mass-applicable, it is not useful to flip the bits with electron beam in ~one~ particular cr50
15:49 cnomad yeah, using a SEM/FIB is the easy way
15:49 asciilifeform but does us 0 good
15:49 cnomad well it could provide some insight into the target
15:49 cnomad for further REing
15:49 asciilifeform the break would ideally be applicable via the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2415 debug device; or, at worst, by attaching to the test pads on the http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/h1.jpg pcb.
15:50 cnomad yeah
15:50 asciilifeform the expense of decapping ~each~ cr50 in each box, is prohibitive, and makes whole proposition uninteresting
15:50 asciilifeform i'ma brb, teatime
15:51 cnomad well the most likely non-firmware approach would be finding a way to glitch/fault it
15:51 cnomad that would be scalable
15:54 cnomad that being said, these chips are generally hardened against faulting / glitching / DPA attacks
16:01 mircea_popescu anything specific ?
16:06 cnomad from reading around a few months ago, they use a similar IC that's used for smart cards, which implement a lot of hardening measures like dual rail logic, security meshes, and various other hardening measures
16:06 cnomad so this is likely some evolution of that
16:07 mircea_popescu sounds like a lot of expensive customization.
16:08 cnomad yeah they can be generic. Mass produce them so engineers can use them for TPMs and whatnot
16:08 mircea_popescu "smart" cards are not usually all that hardened in practice.
16:09 cnomad good, modern ones are
16:09 * asciilifeform back
16:10 asciilifeform cnomad: main form of glitch hardening in cr50, going by the src, is the tactic of repeating the various crypto checks N times
16:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823904 << sure, i'll match.
16:10 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 18:48 asciilifeform considers idea of proclaiming a 1 btc prize for a working break of cr50 . any l1 folk interested in contributing to the prize chest , and/or overseeing the refereeing ?
16:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: good. nao all we need is a refereee
16:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu wanna referee?
16:10 mircea_popescu doesn't the referee have to be qualified ?
16:10 asciilifeform well ideally he'd have a box to test $pill on
16:11 asciilifeform hey phf !
16:11 asciilifeform cnomad: dpa won't do a lick of good, the boobytrap is a rsa pub sig check, no secrets involved
16:12 cnomad yeah i know, i was speaking more generally
16:12 asciilifeform ( i can dpa right here, dun need help even. but it isn't particularly useful for cr50. )
16:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823930 << this difference doesn't exist.
16:12 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:18 cnomad: is this a technical channel or a political or...?
16:12 mircea_popescu the claim to the contrary is a political ploy put forth by the enemies of humanity.
16:13 asciilifeform cnomad: chip appears to be rad-hard, to an extent, also. tho there is a plain physical limit as to rad-hardness of an object half a mm in thickness
16:14 asciilifeform and at any rate a pill that requires elaborate physical diddling is not suitable for mass curing.
16:14 mircea_popescu if well grounded, that limit can be high indeed.
16:14 asciilifeform !!up cnomad
16:14 deedbot cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
16:16 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823965 << it will onlty follow if you exist. without a registered key, you don't. nobody's going to even pretend "that cnomad guy" is a thing, different or differentiable from any other http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/
16:16 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:32 cnomad: im a go-with-the-flow kinda guy. rep will naturally follow
16:16 asciilifeform cnomad: it is quite conceivable that the artifact is airtight, and no one will collect the prize. however it is also conceivable that there is, e.g., buffer overflow somewhere in the mass of c crapola, and it can be rooted today, via the usb jack.
16:16 cnomad yeah
16:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, the only problem is, i'm paying bitcoin to fix google's crapolade ? this sounds a lot like the soviet-sponsored "criticism of capitalism"
16:16 cnomad oh this chip will get popped someday, it's certainly possible
16:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rape, not fix
16:17 asciilifeform per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823992 .
16:17 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:41 asciilifeform: well yes, for public use. with the caveat that we will not be giving the curative pill to google.
16:17 mircea_popescu if it's software and it's found, well... they'll make a firmware upgrade yes.
16:17 asciilifeform some time after we cure 500 units.
16:17 asciilifeform nothing's forever.
16:17 mircea_popescu but the blade cuts the wrong way.
16:17 asciilifeform the machines currently on retail shelves, are curable.
16:17 asciilifeform ( if cure indeed exists )
16:18 mircea_popescu i'd be surprised if "the public" has the werewithal to even liberate 500 of them, should a pill be available now.
16:18 asciilifeform what public. asciilifeform , right here in torture room, will liberate.
16:18 mircea_popescu and you'll store 500 laptops ?
16:18 asciilifeform sure
16:18 asciilifeform they're small.
16:18 mircea_popescu why ?
16:18 asciilifeform s.nsa product.
16:19 mircea_popescu yes, but you're making less than alphabet is from this deal.
16:19 mircea_popescu the idea is to work things so we make more than they do.
16:19 asciilifeform alphabet sells'em, i suspect, at-cost.
16:19 asciilifeform they make their dough via luser rapine, not iron.
16:19 mircea_popescu i still don't see the merit in this "pay" approach.
16:19 asciilifeform the snsa boxen, in the hypothetical, will not contain google crapola.
16:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imho it's worth a shot, dun cost me anything if nobody plays.
16:20 mircea_popescu this is a naive way of looking at things.
16:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is not expected to contribute to the prize pot, if he thinks it is waste of time.
16:20 mircea_popescu consider what "pay for tits" got.
16:20 mircea_popescu i didn't do that publicly for nothing, after all.
16:20 asciilifeform refereeing will take some work. hence the call for a willing referee .
16:20 mircea_popescu there wasn't a single noteworthy one in the whole bunch, yes ?
16:20 asciilifeform ( and naturally contest would have finite time bound )
16:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, think : paying for tits resulted, before your very eyes, in ever increasing levels of exam taking. yes ? you noticed this, yourself, i said nothing, you complained about it.
16:22 asciilifeform verily it did.
16:22 mircea_popescu now you want to pay for cr-whatever. why ? do you expect it'll go any differently ? why ? and so on.
16:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: occasionally folks do break things. presently they're stuck 1) publishing, and it gets patched within a day by enemy 2) the enemy's bounties, paid in printolade
16:23 mircea_popescu "it doesn't cost me anything" is how filthy person ends up with bug infestation, "oh, the jam they eat cost me nothing".
16:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, folks who can think are cordially invited to extract their head out of their ass, stop cohabiting with monkeys, join the republic.
16:23 mircea_popescu if they can't do this, measured as "don't do this", a) the argument they were intelligent is tenuous and b) paying them is exacrtly thr wrong thing to do.
16:23 asciilifeform well i wrote the article. observe what sort of folx came thus far.
16:24 mircea_popescu ie, a) if indeed this guy exists that'd give tyou whatever for the whatever prize, and b) i know for certain that he wouldn;'t have otherwise, somehow then c) i'll send a gal over to tie him to a post, slice an inch of his abdomen, and slowly roll his inrtestine on a cat scratch pad.
16:24 mircea_popescu because what the fuck else would you expect me to do.
16:25 asciilifeform at any rate, nothing's finalized, if mircea_popescu is convinced that this is dumb idea, i'ma call it off
16:25 mircea_popescu i'm not convinced of anything, but i'd rather discuss it than not.
16:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the code repo contains list of meat names of good candidates to tie to a post.
16:25 asciilifeform they have access to that privkey.
16:25 asciilifeform ( one even on record, as 'no i don't!111' , amstan )
16:26 mircea_popescu certainly consists of list of miserable overgrown avortons whose mothers should be really, really ashamed they waited.
16:26 asciilifeform verily.
16:26 cnomad curious, you guys speak russian?
16:27 mircea_popescu he does.
16:27 asciilifeform asciilifeform, phf , apeloyee, possibly coupla other folx, do
16:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu does, to extent, but won't admit!11
16:27 cnomad heh
16:27 cnomad cool me too
16:27 mircea_popescu i'm jewish, that's what we do.
16:27 asciilifeform lol
16:28 asciilifeform cnomad: interestingly, 0 discussion on ru net of cr50.
16:28 asciilifeform in so far as i can tell.
16:28 asciilifeform it's been on shop shelves for almost a year, and 0.
16:28 asciilifeform nao, possibly because nobody in ru sphere would be caught dead buying google crapolade, even for experiment.
16:28 asciilifeform but still somewhat surprising.
16:30 asciilifeform currently the thing is in a handful of boxes, but i suspect that it will spread.
16:31 asciilifeform esp. if the derps begin to think that they've made an airtight trap.
16:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't expect that the google monkeys with access to the key, will willingly spill it ( tho this cannot be ruled out. ) idea was, possibly to get the same folks who currently sweat over ipnoje etc , interested.
16:37 mircea_popescu but if their brain dun work enough for them to get thjemselves interested on their own, then what's your btc gonna do ?
16:37 asciilifeform what does crapple's 100k bounty do ?
16:37 asciilifeform or what was it.
16:37 mircea_popescu nothing.
16:38 asciilifeform if it were 'nothing', the holes from 2015 would still work.
16:38 mircea_popescu it's the ~advertising~ that does something. you understand this, do you ?
16:38 asciilifeform possibly not?
16:38 mircea_popescu ok. let's go back to the original tournament market, the hollywood studio.
16:38 asciilifeform ok
16:38 mircea_popescu what's the whatever, $x mn check the star gets DO ?
16:39 asciilifeform win lottery, lol
16:39 mircea_popescu the item where they ship pre-printed cutouts with the silouette of a girl, and a hole for the head, holding a $x mn check, DOES SOMETHING.
16:39 mircea_popescu it does the thing where it's put in front of every soda joint, and before you know it 17 yos are willing to throw their panties at rolling stones and star in cocksucker blues.
16:39 asciilifeform i think i grasp this
16:39 mircea_popescu whereas their mothers were happy to appear in whistler's mother all decked in black.
16:39 mircea_popescu but this is not what you ask. what you ask is, "what does the $x mn do". well ? what does it ?
16:40 mircea_popescu you're not going to reproduce the former by the latter ; just like you're not going to lure my slavegirls away by promising to be "a good sensitive guy with a great sense of humor".
16:40 asciilifeform however must point out, serious work does cost money; e.g. time on electron microscope, we saw what costs; and there is a population of folx who can make use of it, but can't steal enuff time on instruments, or , if they can, allocated it for something that actually pays the bills
16:40 mircea_popescu howsoever indignant my stepping on their faces in the dungeon may make your tingly sense.
16:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, yes, and if zeptobars weren't fucked in the head, they'd have a !Z service here.
16:41 mircea_popescu exactly like sane people do it.
16:41 asciilifeform the problem with zeptobars, is that they're a ~porn co.
16:41 asciilifeform the amt of ~actual~ reversing, to date, by zeptobar, is ~0.
16:41 mircea_popescu but they ARE fucked in the head, and specifically in the manner of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798415
16:41 a111 Logged on 2018-04-13 20:14 zx2c4: i'd be wary of any 'deal' that's different from: 'i'm given money. you're given warm feelings of having helped the internet.'
16:41 asciilifeform understand, a die photo would do me ~0 good re cr50.
16:41 mircea_popescu where, of course, "the internet" is really just how he whitewashes satan himself for my benefit\.
16:41 mircea_popescu cuz im supposed to be just as retarded as any other usg-produced neet.
16:42 asciilifeform this aside, they ~are~ fuckedinthehead in the manner mircea_popescu describes. just, it would not make much diff for us to have'em, in this case.
16:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i'm just saying, the thing you discuss, with "has costs", works a ~certain~ way. and if you recall how NOPENOPE NOPE!!! kanzure was wrt getting his inept bs in functional shape, you realise that they will NEVER do any work.
16:42 asciilifeform what can i say, this is probably 100% true.
16:42 mircea_popescu recall ? "put your pdf reader in a bot" "where are your microscopy shots" etc.
16:43 mircea_popescu where are they ? even fucking today ? a year later, and all the "make mp eat crow" one could conjure up, where is it ?
16:43 asciilifeform this is sorta like 'search for extraterrestrial intelligence'
16:43 asciilifeform 'hm, maybe today is when the martians answer'
16:43 mircea_popescu recall the days kakobrekla honestly imagined b-a actually has some sort of future ?
16:43 mircea_popescu they won't work ; and paying them is counter-productive : it encourages them to not work.
16:43 asciilifeform notion was to pay for completed work
16:44 asciilifeform but i can see the 'tits' angle.
16:44 mircea_popescu notion was you working to self-pacify yourself, really.
16:44 mircea_popescu there's no way to cut this : either they do or they don't.
16:44 asciilifeform well currently i'm out of ideas in re cr50; thought i'd try the 1 tool in the box i haven't unsheathed.
16:44 mircea_popescu #lisp STILL FUCKING DOES NOT HAVE candi_lustt
16:44 mircea_popescu what more ?
16:44 asciilifeform !!up cnomad
16:44 deedbot cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
16:45 asciilifeform cnomad: i dun suppose you have anything to add to this thread ?
16:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, consider what the previous bitcoins bought, shall we ?
16:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: perfectly good photo of d00d with pen in his arse !111
16:46 cnomad nothing to add atm
16:46 asciilifeform cnomad: aite
16:47 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1802054 we've seen ; how about http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724173 ? random moron trying to make a living out of "online marketing", gets paid more than he earned his entire working life (cash, not fucking "hopes" bs) and he... what ?
16:47 a111 Logged on 2018-04-18 16:39 a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:30 mircea_popescu: !!pay zx2c4 1
16:47 a111 Logged on 2017-10-11 20:46 mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 1 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
16:48 mircea_popescu nothing. there's not going to be any work encouragement through payment, because the inca has expertly stuffed this channel full of nonsense on both ends. "Free money" from one "nothing to buy for it" from the other, the zek has no use and no need and consequently no conception of money at all.
16:48 mircea_popescu might as well offer moon fiddles.
16:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hypothetically it'd be a contest with very simple mechanical judgement of winner. but i can picture why no one might want to be the referee.
16:49 mircea_popescu nevermind the referee. explain the incentive structure.
16:49 asciilifeform for players ?
16:50 mircea_popescu yes.
16:50 asciilifeform well, let's take douchebag
16:50 asciilifeform whatcha doing these days, douchebag ?
16:50 asciilifeform let me guess, auditing www crapola to make the rent ?
16:50 mircea_popescu my bet would be, he's working a shitty job in some shitty company and dreams of the day "things will happen".
16:51 mircea_popescu meanwhile nothing's happening, and time goes by, and trinque in the end had a point, no door's open forever.
16:51 asciilifeform maybe not best example, i have nfi whether d00d has the spark of life or not
16:51 mircea_popescu and you know, like shinohai -- if you prod him he'll do some movements, like electrocuted, disembodied frog legs. and if you don't he'll sit. and then wonder why it didn't work out and why he's being so badly persecuted.
16:52 asciilifeform all i got is historical examples, buying keys worked for kgb and gru
16:52 asciilifeform why not for us.
16:52 mircea_popescu recall the time i bought that dork a ranked reddit account ? recall the time anything came of it ?
16:52 mircea_popescu recall the time anything came of rockchip ?
16:52 mircea_popescu and so fucking on.
16:52 asciilifeform sure but what's a reddit worth.
16:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, if "worked" then where are these things it worked for ?
16:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, a tool is worth to the tradesman his life.
16:52 asciilifeform i can't speak authoritatively, but according to thirdhand folx, they had the usg naval keys for 20 yrs straight
16:53 mircea_popescu if he's a tradesman. if he's a kid getting in the way of adults, nothing will EVER be worth anything. not ever, no matter what you do.
16:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, and ? they ever won a confrontation with us navy ? they ever won without even needing to confront, like the chinese ?
16:53 asciilifeform aaand they had orig schems, chip layouts, etc. for various 'embargo' products. some of which can still be seen today, e.g. those calcs.
16:53 asciilifeform these were purchased, in exactly the manner contemplated.
16:54 mircea_popescu sure. but anyways, to circle back : i'll match. but i also expect exactly nothing to come of it.
16:54 asciilifeform i expect exactly same thing.
16:54 asciilifeform nao if phf or other l1 is willing to referee, we can hold the game. ( imho asciilifeform does not fit for role of referee. )
16:55 mircea_popescu and somehow, all these inept fucktards sit somewhere "online" on the world wide dweeb, and manage to not notice that "hey, there's some people somewhere , can burn 10s of ks of this shitty green crap just out of boredom. when's the last time our "respectable" "employer" ok'd a $100 expense account ?!?!?!"
16:55 asciilifeform i'd start with giving the players , say , six weeks.
16:55 mircea_popescu hahaha\
16:55 mircea_popescu you know, i did this on trilema what ? a dozen times ? two ?
16:56 asciilifeform any longer, and the target is likely to move.
16:56 asciilifeform sure.
16:56 mircea_popescu recall how it never took less than a year for the fucktarded public to even catch on ?
16:56 mircea_popescu and this is not anglotardation ; at some point a decade ago i actually offered a full scholarship. NOBODY claimed it.
16:56 asciilifeform i believe it.
16:57 asciilifeform sometimes there is problem tho, where the prospective players don't believe in the factuality of the prize
16:57 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2011/bursele-trilema-pentru-doctoranzi-si-masteranzi/ << item.
16:57 mircea_popescu riiigh.
16:57 mircea_popescu looky, shit eaters will eat shit.
16:57 asciilifeform ( so paradoxically a 1btc prize imho could attract moar players than 10, even )
16:57 mircea_popescu "i don't believe in factuality of anything besides usg" is the cheapest brand of shit to eat.
16:57 asciilifeform right but hypothetical is that something remains when you take these away.
16:58 asciilifeform ( i have no particular reason to think it, and more or less agree with mircea_popescu re why )
16:58 asciilifeform it's a 'seti'.
16:58 asciilifeform nobody has yet met a martian.
16:58 mircea_popescu as far as i'm concerned, two things remain : republicans and slavegirls.
16:58 asciilifeform afaik that's all.
16:58 mircea_popescu and i don't see why that shouldn't suffice.
16:59 asciilifeform i mean this is one possible approach, when encountering a mine field that the current republicans + slavegurlz can't clear, to say 'eh it dun need clearing'
16:59 mircea_popescu well, say it can't be cleared, what.
17:00 asciilifeform but i'd like to see this one, cleared.
17:00 mircea_popescu saying "jahveh will clear if sacrifice correct ox" is insanity.
17:00 asciilifeform ox clears minefield quite well!111
17:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, nice. like in one hand, and piss in the other...
17:00 asciilifeform aha
17:02 asciilifeform it isn't even wholly about the machines, from asciilifeform's pov, asciilifeform would like to see the enemy bleed some, hear the laments , see the mules driven before him, etc
17:03 asciilifeform and, as mircea_popescu correctly points out, 'would like' never broke any doors.
17:03 mircea_popescu well, you live in dc, send a few girls over to talk to the dweebs.
17:03 asciilifeform lol
17:03 mircea_popescu afaik alphabet all lives there, notwisthanding "tech corp" pretense.
17:03 asciilifeform you must have asciilifeform confused with somebody else, the dc mircea_popescu is three doors down
17:04 mircea_popescu also, i can say it is extremely unlikely your preliminary "thousands" figure is correct.
17:04 mircea_popescu it may be as low as a coupla dozen.
17:04 asciilifeform ( and fwiw it's news to me, that any of them live here, nobody lives here if they can reasonably help it )
17:04 mircea_popescu yes well.
17:04 douchebag I've been around, just been busy attending to various issues irl
17:04 mircea_popescu how's the ticks ?
17:05 douchebag It ended up being a spider bite
17:05 douchebag I'm doing well now after a few days
17:05 mircea_popescu a good.
17:05 douchebag thanks
17:05 mircea_popescu ticks are technically spiders, fwiw.
17:06 douchebag Never knew that, I thought they were parasites
17:06 douchebag Ahh they're arachnids
17:06 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823995 << he's not even wrong ; tho honestly i'd much rather buy equipment than outsource.
17:06 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:44 cnomad: If someone popped this chip, I'd value it at _least_ 200k USD. we're talking about invasive analysis that requires equipment, weeks of non-stop work, and experience
17:06 mircea_popescu let's not repeat the mistake that sunk america ; we don't even have an america to sink.
17:07 cnomad what mistake?
17:07 mircea_popescu douchebag, "parasite" isn't a class. but yes, arachnids.
17:07 mircea_popescu cnomad, outsourcing, rather than buying capital goods.
17:08 douchebag A friend of mine is great w/ hardware hacking, reverse engineering, binary exploitation, firmware exploitation, ect.. He has a ton of equipment, if asciilifeform wants I could have him come in here.
17:08 BingoBoingo <douchebag> It ended up being a spider bite << How sure are you about that? Prolly safest to tent the place and fumigate to be sure.
17:09 mircea_popescu douchebag, certainly.
17:09 asciilifeform douchebag: it isn't clear that heavy equipment is of any help. but if talented folx can be led to take an interest, by all means bring'em
17:09 mircea_popescu apparently we'll end up having to organize a defanging lab.
17:09 douchebag BingoBoingo: Well, that's what the doctor told me
17:10 asciilifeform the only on-chip secret that'd make a diff, is if there is an iron backdoor left in fpga
17:10 asciilifeform otherwise it's a purely c-machine exploitation problem
17:10 asciilifeform recall, a cure that requires individual decapping of each patient, is worth ~0.
17:10 BingoBoingo douchebag: Spiders and ticks aren't the only things that bite. Fumigate.
17:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824023 << as he was excitedly pointing out, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1822402
17:11 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:51 cnomad: well the most likely non-firmware approach would be finding a way to glitch/fault it
17:11 a111 Logged on 2018-06-11 15:46 asciilifeform: one interesting observation, is that the update mechanism lets you flash in arbitrary crapola into 'rw' section ( it simply won't jump to it if it doesn't pass rsa(sha256(payload)) ) . so theoretically could put a nop sled there, ending with jump into the magic half of unlock routine. and then expose the thing to beta/gamma, and perhaps in a few months it will Do The Right Thing
17:11 mircea_popescu but so far an overflow's elusive.
17:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, honestly, i still suspect there's a clean way to flash-in via the factory pads. however...
17:11 mircea_popescu !!up digshadow-c
17:11 deedbot digshadow-c voiced for 30 minutes.
17:11 asciilifeform and in so far as i can tell, thing's a pinball machine, designed to lock up on first sign of glitching
17:11 asciilifeform has thermometer, etc.
17:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw i tracked down their factory test jig src. it was in their shithub, 'removed' in october 19
17:12 mircea_popescu ahaha, does it brick if you cut out the thermometer ?
17:12 asciilifeform cut lol
17:12 asciilifeform it's on-die.
17:12 mircea_popescu ohthose.
17:13 asciilifeform test jig was simply a variant of the stock fw, and it gets rewritten by the 'prod' fw prior to retail sale.
17:13 mircea_popescu yes but how did they enable it ?
17:13 mircea_popescu !!up xdeller_
17:13 deedbot xdeller_ voiced for 30 minutes.
17:13 mircea_popescu hello xdeller_ , who might ye be ?
17:13 asciilifeform factory edition of the chip had a loader that overwrites self via spi
17:13 asciilifeform so no trace of it on the prod chip.
17:14 mircea_popescu pretty elegant way to go about it.
17:14 douchebag asciilifeform: Are you referring to the motor compressor
17:14 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/06/trump-and-kim-make-a-deal-after-g7-treachery/ << Qntra - Trump And Kim Make A Deal After G7 Treachery
17:14 asciilifeform aha, in so far as i can tell they did a fairly clean job.
17:14 asciilifeform douchebag: waiwat
17:14 douchebag I'm talking to my buddy
17:14 douchebag "i hope hes not referring to the fucking motor compressor"
17:14 douchebag "chromium rite"
17:14 asciilifeform does he think subj is a refrigerator ? or wat
17:15 BingoBoingo LOLL
17:15 asciilifeform !!up cnomad
17:15 deedbot cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
17:15 asciilifeform douchebag: i'm not aware of a component known by name of 'motor compressor' anywhere in or near subj
17:15 asciilifeform possibly yer friend is thinking of refrigerator...
17:15 trinque it's right next to the johnson rod
17:15 asciilifeform lel
17:15 mircea_popescu douchebag, cr50 is, by all appearances, an arm cortex fpga
17:16 BingoBoingo Even then more apt metaphor for the operation would be a drain and fill
17:16 asciilifeform douchebag: ~in~ fpga. but not an off-the-shelf one, but with LUT filling in mask rom.
17:17 asciilifeform a la altera's 'hardcopy'
17:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, how reliable is your http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823802 ?
17:17 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 16:03 asciilifeform: but if can put a $5 fpga in its place, it's a 15 min job.
17:17 asciilifeform ( may even be, for all i know, literally a product of altera hardcopy )
17:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if i could find a fpga that sits down pad-for-pad, it becomes a $10 problem.
17:18 mircea_popescu could just put a sane kbd driver in there and whatnot. i don;'t even fucking want google's kbd driver, they can shove it.
17:18 asciilifeform however it is not known presently whether one exists.
17:18 asciilifeform right.
17:18 asciilifeform kbd, ps, etc
17:18 asciilifeform i'd junk google's crapola fw regardless, even if we break cr50
17:18 mircea_popescu ps is even smaller an issue
17:19 asciilifeform it can be replaced with ~50 line thing.
17:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, can you publish a very large pic of the chip (and margins) only ?
17:19 mircea_popescu ideally 5k px or w/e you can swing. very large very clear.
17:19 asciilifeform currently best i have is http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/h1.jpg
17:20 mircea_popescu it's fucking terrible.
17:20 asciilifeform but will strip down the box again ( gotta pull out mb and heat sinks etc ) and make a bigger, later this wk
17:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how big margin do you want ?
17:20 mircea_popescu 1mm past the demarcation is plenty
17:21 asciilifeform i put the spi bootrom in the pic, to make clear the fact that it is connected ~through~ cr50
17:21 asciilifeform ( src confirms this )
17:21 mircea_popescu make 100 shots if you have to, just learn how to use the damned sony and get a proper fixed shot
17:21 mircea_popescu sure. but here no need for that, we're trying to match the chip.
17:21 douchebag My buddy said "although they are mostly factory locked"
17:21 douchebag you can put them in an "rma open" config which will allow some communications functionality
17:22 mircea_popescu douchebag, what are you, mafalda ?
17:22 asciilifeform douchebag: if you were to read my articles, and past 48 hrs of thread, you would already know this.
17:22 asciilifeform incl. what happens re 'rma open'.
17:22 asciilifeform ( unlocking 'rma open' counts as a troo break. )
17:23 asciilifeform and forfuckssake yes they're locked. what didja think the thread were about, douchebag ?
17:23 douchebag I didn't even know what a cr50 was 10 minutes ago
17:23 asciilifeform douchebag: you have some reading to catch up on.
17:24 asciilifeform douchebag: can start with http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433 .
17:24 douchebag Sry, been jumping between quite a few different things throughout the day
17:30 cnomad floating an idea... do you folks have a batch of cr50s around that you might be willing to ship?
17:30 douchebag My friend was also wondering who has access to cr50's
17:31 cnomad and if you send 2-3 to me, I can image it for you
17:31 asciilifeform cnomad: it's 300bux or so
17:31 cnomad yeah, for a whole chromebook
17:33 mircea_popescu cnomad, how about you get a key registered, i send you some bitcoin dust, you order yourself a coupla chromebooks and "imagine it for us".
17:33 asciilifeform cnomad: board itself is ~fiddybux on ebay
17:35 douchebag My friend says he's going to research it some more. He said he can have a unit by Friday, he thinks it'll be interesting because it probably hasn't had as much attention given to it due to low market share
17:36 mircea_popescu douchebag, why can't he come in like normal people ?
17:36 diana_coman funny how this hw guy can't even do as much as the girls with tits managed
17:36 douchebag He's not at his computer at the moment
17:36 mircea_popescu so let him get off the girl and get to his computert later.
17:40 cnomad mircea_popescu: ok. I'm not going to get to it within this month, but i'll ping you back for details to give you a die image
17:41 cnomad it prolly will yield some periphery information about the die, similar families / cells that it uses
17:43 cnomad !!register https://kibon.eu/kiboneu.asc
17:43 deedbot 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF registered as cnomad.
17:43 cnomad there im now on yer watchlist
17:44 mircea_popescu principally it'll yield an opportunity for you to be reconized or how shall we put it.
17:44 mircea_popescu !!pay cnomad 0.1
17:44 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uT9uZ/?raw=true
17:44 cnomad i don't want money, but thanks
17:45 mircea_popescu cnomad, imagine i shipped you some boards, what difference does it make.
17:45 mircea_popescu i suppose i should also rate him huh.
17:45 mircea_popescu !!rate cnomad 1 dood either ran off with my boards or else produced an image of some sort ; we don't know the future yet
17:45 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4zhB3/?raw=true
17:46 mircea_popescu cnomad, say !!up to deedbot in a pm.
17:47 mircea_popescu !!up cnomad
17:47 deedbot cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
17:47 mircea_popescu hm ?
17:47 cnomad er, more precisely I'm not going to get to it until sometime next month, so I'd rather accept payment then
17:48 cnomad idk deedbat thinks im not registered
17:48 mircea_popescu dingbat lol.
17:48 mircea_popescu cnomad, aite, give it a few mins then, maybe not up to date yet
17:49 cnomad its fine. I'll ping you folks when I'm ready to order some chromebooks and do some imaging
17:49 cnomad motivation for me to finish assembling the fumehood
17:50 asciilifeform the great outdoor world under the sun makes an ok fumehood..
17:51 mircea_popescu no it doesn't.
17:51 mircea_popescu suicidal maniac.
17:51 asciilifeform lol
17:51 cnomad i can't say i haven't considered it
17:51 asciilifeform ( well, it + sov gas mask )
17:51 mircea_popescu + buttplug.
17:52 asciilifeform arse-mouth hose, wainot.
17:55 asciilifeform !!rate cnomad 1 says, he's a reverser.
17:55 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BBSsL/?raw=true
17:55 asciilifeform !!v 93034C3788CC362FD06EF9824B149C73A8C1B0B6EDAA9F1773BB30E80855097D
17:55 deedbot asciilifeform rated cnomad 1 << says, he's a reverser.
~ 24 minutes ~
18:19 mircea_popescu cnomad the user manual is http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ btw
18:27 mircea_popescu !!up fitzsim
18:27 deedbot fitzsim voiced for 30 minutes.
18:27 mircea_popescu aand who might you be ?
18:41 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/06/apple-signing-api-used-to-bypass-third-party-anti-malware-tools/ << Qntra - Apple Signing API Used To Bypass Third Party Anti-Malware Tools
~ 42 minutes ~
19:24 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nCaj4/?raw=true
19:25 ben_vulpes actually BingoBoingo try http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Hn5N9/?raw=true instead
19:32 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824041 << if you decide that the effort is worth the while, i'll referee
19:32 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 20:11 asciilifeform: hey phf !
19:33 asciilifeform phf: do you have now with what to referee ? if i start the contest today, and entry is mailed in, can you test ?
19:36 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2018/06/apple-signing-api-used-to-bypass-third-party-anti-malware-tools/#comment-115866
19:38 asciilifeform phf: the way i'm thinking of doing it: i'ma write up and sign a statement describing the competition; you will create a special-occasion key, e.g. 'cr50contest', rate it e.g. +1 cr50 , and i will drop a coin into it.
19:39 mircea_popescu why can't he just use phf ?
19:39 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/on-the-internet-nobody-believes-youre-a-sow/ << Trilema - On the internet, nobody believes you're a sow.
19:39 asciilifeform also worx, but this is easier to keep track of if folx want to donate to the pot etc
19:39 asciilifeform phf: you will test using your c101pa. and so you will need the debug snake, i will need to put the output of sysinfo , ver , brd , etc cr50 console commands into the statement.
19:39 asciilifeform the outputs from phf's box.
19:40 mircea_popescu i can't imagine we'll have such a deluge of these the clerical work keeping track is worh the hassle
19:40 asciilifeform maybe deluge, maybe not, but imho worth labeling it in separate bottle.
19:41 * mircea_popescu has no strong feelings either way
19:42 asciilifeform also thinking , half the prize is to be paid immediately on the receipt of a working crack, and other half a month later if google shows no sign of patching.
19:43 asciilifeform to discourage double-dipping.
19:43 mircea_popescu why ?
19:43 mircea_popescu this is utter nonsense.
19:43 asciilifeform for the smart arses who want to collect from us and then immediately google's bounty.
19:43 * mircea_popescu changes asciilifeform 's nick to overengineer, inc.
19:43 asciilifeform i trust the bounty-motivated folk about as far as i can throw'em.
19:44 mircea_popescu "shows to signs" is not a computable string for the phf-machine.
19:44 mircea_popescu no* signs
19:44 asciilifeform it is to be computed as follows : at the end of the elapsed period, i go to a shop and buy a box, and let it vendor-update
19:44 asciilifeform if pill still worx -- pass.
19:44 mircea_popescu you'll end up having to pay like 5 btc for the work involved in this arbitering lol.
19:45 asciilifeform let's see what phf says
19:45 mircea_popescu i don't get it, and if your model is correct, secret waits a month thereby ? what's in a month ?
19:46 asciilifeform in a month, i buy boxen, cure'em.
19:46 asciilifeform simple , neh
19:46 asciilifeform once they're cured, they're cured.
19:46 mircea_popescu your idea is that "what if i don't have enough time to get to the store after contest is declared" ?
19:46 asciilifeform gotta give ~some~ interval.
19:47 asciilifeform dun have to be whole month.
19:47 mircea_popescu sometimes i wonder what you imagine google is.
19:47 asciilifeform and winner gets his jollies from publishing etc. if he likes.
19:47 asciilifeform i ain't about to try to get people to swear to eternal secrecy.
19:47 mircea_popescu imo it's a way better story if it goes "and then google patched with bated breath WITHIN MINUTES"
19:47 asciilifeform google is a big bag of printolade, is all.
19:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: crapple patches jailbreaks within day or 2 of learning about'em.
19:49 asciilifeform i have nfi if they do it using coolies in romania working for food, or with what else. but there it is.
19:49 mircea_popescu holy shit oxigen line punctured. aite, ima be back in a few, this just became a hazardous environment o.O
19:49 asciilifeform bahaha mircea_popescu has piped gasses?!
19:49 asciilifeform ( can i hit him up for some ln2 when i visit ?? )
19:50 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/06/texas-struggling-to-produce-non-fouling-bunker-fuel/ << Qntra - Texas Struggling To Produce Non-Fouling Bunker Fuel
19:51 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: ty for the lol http://qntra.net/2018/06/texas-struggling-to-produce-non-fouling-bunker-fuel/#comment-115867
19:51 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-22#1727646 << oblig timis
19:51 a111 Logged on 2017-10-22 14:54 asciilifeform: aaalso why are there signs warning of buried ~oxygen~ pipes !
19:54 asciilifeform !Q later tell trinque would it be possible to set up a public address that will auto-add to the pot when sent coin to ?
19:54 lobbesbot asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
19:54 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: can i get the copyright r ?
19:55 trinque asciilifeform: just register a nick that represents the pot, have folks !!pay that nick
19:55 lobbesbot trinque: Sent 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> would it be possible to set up a public address that will auto-add to the pot when sent coin to ?
19:56 asciilifeform trinque: idea is, heathens could donate anon ( admittedly tall order, that any want to )
19:57 asciilifeform on 2nd thought possibly bad idea, if contest ends without a winner, what to do about them.
20:00 trinque yep, thing works best if there's always a somebody on the other end, of course.
20:00 asciilifeform trinque: there's a pretty good chance that the prize will not be claimed.
20:00 trinque no such automatic reader of address balance is currently in the loop. process by which I confirm deposits is unspecified, varies.
20:00 asciilifeform aite.
20:05 asciilifeform theoretically as soon as phf gets his snake going, and gives green light, we can start.
20:05 phf asciilifeform: so i was going by http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823998 to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824022 where you lay out your requirements for "successful crack", which make sense
20:05 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:44 asciilifeform: for my purposes, a proper break is when i can load in arbitrary firmware in place of the vendor's.
20:05 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 19:50 asciilifeform: i'ma brb, teatime
20:06 asciilifeform phf: correct, full overwrite of whole 256kB fw space with arbitrary bits . repeatably.
20:06 phf the discussions after that though are all over the place, and introduce some requirements that i don't think i can arbitrate like "didn't leak the code back to google"
20:06 asciilifeform phf: i described a coupla min ago, upthread, how.
20:07 asciilifeform after $time , phf goes and buys, from amazon, a c101pa , and administers the pill. if it is cured just the same as his current one, the other half of prize is to be awarded.
20:07 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: It's there now
20:07 phf yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
20:08 asciilifeform it is to be specified that if during $period the machine becomes unavailable in retail, the 2nd half of prize condition is thereby unmet.
20:08 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: ty
20:08 asciilifeform phf: i need an arbiter so as to give players some amt of confidence that rules will not change underneath them.
20:10 asciilifeform and generally treasurer and instigator oughta be different people. as in the trb foundation.
20:11 asciilifeform phf: i fully expect that the winner will want to publish his discovery. hence i would like to give an incentive for him to wait a reasonable time.
20:11 asciilifeform so that i can acquire a supply of curable boxen.
20:12 asciilifeform after that he can go and collect his $500k or whatever, if he can, from enemy.
20:12 phf asciilifeform: i see, i'm sorry, but i don't think i can properly be called a referee under these conditions. i can do independent testing for you though, i.e. test against current c101pa, and against one that i purchase at a time you indicate.
20:13 asciilifeform ok i guess we need a new referee.
20:13 asciilifeform any takers ?
20:13 asciilifeform trinque, wanne be referee ?
20:14 asciilifeform really ideally somebody outside of usa , so they can't simply break down the door
20:14 asciilifeform ... jurov ? diana_coman ?
20:15 * trinque lacks the machines and spare hands, and yes, ass located square in natoreich
20:15 asciilifeform if we can't get somebody other than asciilifeform to stand up as referee, can't really have this contest imho. and a pill that gets immediately patched against by enemy , is of no use.
20:16 asciilifeform i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill.
20:17 asciilifeform it'd be a quite pricey pile of poor hammers.
20:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, in between the tank and the valve, fucking bullshit hecho en mexico nonsense.
20:20 mircea_popescu wtf is this world coming to. i just vented a few m3 into the biodiversidad
20:20 asciilifeform dare i to ask why mircea_popescu keeps the tank around
20:20 mircea_popescu eh, amateur metallurgy is a bdsm mainstay.
20:20 mircea_popescu all the collars and whatnot.
20:20 asciilifeform aaaaa
20:21 asciilifeform i considered o2 for the laser, could cut sheet metal if i substituted o2 in place of the air column, but hesitated, keeping tank in unvented shed is invitation for trouble
20:21 mircea_popescu "oh it dun do anything, it's just oxigen" "sure. until the day it does something, then you'll really see a show"
20:21 asciilifeform phooom
20:22 asciilifeform do the pets know not to grease the threads, lol
20:22 asciilifeform ( ever see 'vhs america' film 'man without a face' ? )
20:22 mircea_popescu i dun recall. which was this ?
20:22 mircea_popescu anyway, grease is gone, all teflon nowadays.
20:24 asciilifeform oh hm orig english title was 'darkman'
20:25 asciilifeform trash film. but included scene where 'drinky bird' with greased head was detonator, under o2 tank
20:25 asciilifeform https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099365/ << subj
20:27 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo, fwi, "No word from oil insiders on interest in the shambling cryptographic provenance solutions still in search of a problem to solve and customers to buy it; but this has not deterred Team Cockchain ("Smokin' it!" ™®) from announcing eleventeen different projects to disrupt this massive industry from its mother's basement." makes 0 sense to me.
20:29 asciilifeform i had nfi mircea_popescu welded !! world turned upside down!1111
20:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i was just looking on.
20:30 asciilifeform get'em a tig rig.
20:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824464 << in perhaps better formulation, the very point of having arbiter is so as to avoid exam taking ; the whole point of having "written contract" (import here pizarro's coc, import here the "opposable instrument" thread with trinque, etc) is to permit exam taking. these are contrary design constraints.
20:30 a111 Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
20:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aite, how wouldja do it ?
20:31 mircea_popescu but i'm not doing it, am i ? i dunno how i'd do it ; i'm also not against exercising the doing it muscle, but commetary is part and parcel of the exercising.
20:32 asciilifeform sure.
20:32 mircea_popescu note however that practice is alligned : when you protested (essentially) that the tits thing is being exam-took, i ignored it, specifically because... it was specified!
20:32 mircea_popescu see what i mean ?
20:32 asciilifeform verily
20:33 mircea_popescu gotta pick what you pick ; and as per the common sense notion, if your job isn't a good fit for any tool, your job's not a well defined job.
20:33 asciilifeform as it is, i'm pretty satisfied with my tentative formulation.
20:33 asciilifeform it is not difficult to mechanically test, either.
20:33 mircea_popescu so then whatcha need arbiter for.
20:34 asciilifeform for not being '1 man band'.
20:34 mircea_popescu what's the problem with that ?
20:34 asciilifeform if i can't get another d00d to play the tuba while i do the drums, what merit can there be in contest.
20:35 mircea_popescu so far it's not altogether clear what specifically other dood's to do.
20:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824480 << not to mention he still has a pile of whatever they were, from last time.
20:37 a111 Logged on 2018-06-13 00:16 asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill.
20:37 asciilifeform pretty clear imho. obtain a c101pa. obtain the snake ( schematic on asciilifeform's www . ) send to asciilifeform the output of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824405 . then, judge prospective winners , under condition http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824459 . if pill permits overwriting all 256k of the chip, with arbitrary contents , we have a winner. then month later, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824462 .
20:37 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 23:39 asciilifeform: phf: you will test using your c101pa. and so you will need the debug snake, i will need to put the output of sysinfo , ver , brd , etc cr50 console commands into the statement.
20:37 a111 Logged on 2018-06-13 00:06 asciilifeform: phf: correct, full overwrite of whole 256kB fw space with arbitrary bits . repeatably.
20:37 a111 Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 asciilifeform: after $time , phf goes and buys, from amazon, a c101pa , and administers the pill. if it is cured just the same as his current one, the other half of prize is to be awarded.
20:37 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824502 << right. it's also not a good idea for an arbiter to sign someone else's exam, as if it's anything but. i've offered to run the proposed experiments without arbitrating, but that's not what ascii wants.
20:37 a111 Logged on 2018-06-13 00:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824464 << in perhaps better formulation, the very point of having arbiter is so as to avoid exam taking ; the whole point of having "written contract" (import here pizarro's coc, import here the "opposable instrument" thread with trinque, etc) is to permit exam taking. these are contrary design constraints.
20:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: pogo ? they're as usable as ever as soon as somebody gets trb into 256MB, lol
20:38 mircea_popescu >D
20:38 asciilifeform phf: i am happy that you are willing to experiment. and if yer not feeling up to the job of contest arbiter, that's allright.
20:38 mircea_popescu by now they cost more in storage than they cost to acquire, even though patriotic republicans' have been eating the cost for us.
20:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: supply of clean comps will become valuable as the resource dries up, which it shows every sign of heading to do.
20:39 asciilifeform picture if you had piled up x60's 10y ago.
20:39 mircea_popescu in general. but converting the general to practically actionable bits is usually the challenge.
20:39 asciilifeform sure.
20:39 mircea_popescu um... it'd have been a terrible deal.
20:40 mircea_popescu what, x60 are worth money ?
20:40 asciilifeform lol no it wouldn't, i'd prolly buy a coupla dozen.
20:40 asciilifeform and betcha phf ditto
20:40 phf asciilifeform: i'm up for a job of contest arbiter, i don't think that what you're proposing is arbitration. i thought that you're going to give goals, and it's up to me to evaluate if the goals have been achieved. but you want me to merely verify your procedure. that's fine, but that doesn't make me an arbitrator.
20:40 asciilifeform phf: i gave goals, what's the problem again ?
20:40 mircea_popescu the $500 lenovo mini laptop things ?!
20:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the non-ME-intel ones
20:41 asciilifeform actually a pre-lenovo design
20:41 asciilifeform the thing for which asciilifeform made a cured bios
20:41 asciilifeform ( and rms falsely claimed to )
20:41 mircea_popescu i think i have one right here. from ~period. it's a workhorse, sure, and it paid for itself many times over, but...
20:42 asciilifeform point being, yes, in clean and working condition (i.e. with not yet faded tubes, for instance) these are yes valuable.
20:42 asciilifeform and nonrenewable resource.
20:43 asciilifeform remember yer trinitron.
20:43 mircea_popescu somehow i've not bought another.
20:43 asciilifeform betcha you couldn't even if wanted to.
20:43 asciilifeform there are not so many left that have life in'em.
20:43 mircea_popescu i bet you i could, if i wanted to. there's plenty of old crap here.
20:44 asciilifeform precisely OLD crap
20:44 asciilifeform old trinitron, with fade, is worth about fiddybux.
20:44 asciilifeform if that.
20:44 asciilifeform new-in-box , genuine item , was worth about 1k usd few yrs ago. and pretty much extinct last i saw.
20:45 mircea_popescu well like it or not, it's old crap. the thinkpad sitting sadly on a chair is...like 2gb ram and a fucking pentium
20:45 asciilifeform there's oldcrap, and there's simply old.
20:45 asciilifeform oldie goldie.
20:46 mircea_popescu i think you conflate economics and coolness. for one thing, an original trinitron bought the year sony came out with them was like 5k ? or some shit like that. for the other thing, 1k from 1988 is like 10-15k today. so... i don't see the $100k price tag that'd merely cover inflation.
20:46 mircea_popescu meanwhile the same money put in bitcoin went from $2 to whatever the fuck.
20:47 asciilifeform difficult to 'cover the $100k' when lemon market.
20:47 mircea_popescu soooo...
20:47 asciilifeform lemon market is not forever, potentially.
20:47 mircea_popescu same reasoning drives the bolix museumists.
20:47 mircea_popescu and it works ~same for them, too.
20:47 asciilifeform bolix routinely changes hands for price of ~toyoya.
20:48 mircea_popescu and you see the problem with this ?
20:48 asciilifeform i see a number of problems, 'it wasn't worth buying for $ 600' aint one.
20:48 mircea_popescu kim kardashian also routinely changes hands for price of ~lawnmower ; doesn't mean she's any good. they just like having their picture taken with her.
20:49 asciilifeform there's a finite, currently large but monotonically dwindling, number of non-nsa comps.
20:49 mircea_popescu but back to it : i see the value in taking a magic marker to the outside track of google's "drm". i do not see the value in your hairebrained scheme to make a business out of it.
20:49 asciilifeform to precisely price them, is beyond not only asciilifeform , but the gods themselves.
20:49 mircea_popescu (anyone even recall those lulz ?)
20:50 asciilifeform in re pogo in particular, i dun recall a particular +ev biznis plan for'em . they were , in mircea_popescu's exact, iirc, words, a reserve fleet.
20:50 mircea_popescu indeed.
20:50 asciilifeform is what i meant.
20:51 mircea_popescu anyway, the value here is "lol @google", not "oh, ima sell 500 laptops for 0.01 btc profit per".
20:51 asciilifeform incidentally the whole fleet cost about 300 bux; i.e. the cost of 1 c101pa-tron.
20:51 mircea_popescu pretty sure it was a few grand.
20:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824234
20:52 a111 Logged on 2018-06-12 21:02 asciilifeform: it isn't even wholly about the machines, from asciilifeform's pov, asciilifeform would like to see the enemy bleed some, hear the laments , see the mules driven before him, etc
20:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the cost on my end , to buy and transport, was about 300bux. now you can prolly turn this into a few grand, if you compare against 'keep coin in pocket' , sure
20:52 asciilifeform but by this token nothing ever wins against 'keep in pocket' afaik.
20:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, buy and transport what ?
20:52 asciilifeform pogo container
20:53 mircea_popescu dood, danielpbarron had like a whole crate of them.
20:53 asciilifeform speaking specifically of the one asciilifeform delivered
20:53 asciilifeform i cannot comment on danielpbarron's
20:53 mircea_popescu because why ?
20:53 mircea_popescu lol. mkay.
20:53 asciilifeform because i do not know how many mircea_popescu obtained via danielpbarron , lol
20:53 asciilifeform it wasn't my doing , from that point.
20:53 asciilifeform is all.
20:53 mircea_popescu well, say they were 500 heh ? SINCE IT WAS YOUR NUMBER
20:53 asciilifeform say.
20:54 asciilifeform and if comes the hour that we need 500 clean boxes, for whatever, e.g. unattended shortwave relays, there they are.
20:54 mircea_popescu anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
20:55 asciilifeform what of it ?
20:55 mircea_popescu it's perfectly possible google just fixed it on their own. and now you want phf to decide this somehow ? fucking how ?
20:55 asciilifeform nope, i do not ask phf to decide. the condition is clean cut, like guillotine.
20:55 asciilifeform hole still worx after month ? 2nd half of prize. no worky ? no 2nd half.
20:55 mircea_popescu and you imagine complicated injustice is better than just a shrug and a pat on the ass ?
20:55 asciilifeform player dun like it ? can stuff it.
20:55 mircea_popescu because it ain't.
20:56 asciilifeform i do not see the injustice. contest can ~only~ operate on facts, not suppositions.
20:56 asciilifeform it literally does not matter to me ~why~ hole got closed on 27th.
20:56 mircea_popescu fact is dood gave you what you wanted.
20:56 mircea_popescu supposition -- entirely on your side.
20:56 asciilifeform because player cannot prove that he did not sell it to google on the 5th.
20:56 mircea_popescu nobody is to be held to prove negatives.
20:56 mircea_popescu you also can't prove you don't have cancer.
20:56 asciilifeform exactly. hence the mechanical cut.
20:56 mircea_popescu i should like to see your oncology clinic.
20:57 mircea_popescu as a visitor only, however.
20:57 asciilifeform understand, i have no use whatsoever for a hole that gets sent to google immediately upon discovery. i would not only not pay a coin for ~that~, but would not pay a $1 bill.
20:57 asciilifeform lol
20:58 asciilifeform at any rate currently i dun even have a referee. chances are that there will be no game.
20:58 mircea_popescu yes, but the key to communication, which is what you do when you try to engage others, is that you step outside of what you have need for, and speak of something ~they~ can relate to.
20:58 asciilifeform sure
20:58 mircea_popescu you may have no need, but putative player has no way to control wtf will hapen in a month.
20:59 asciilifeform he does not, correct. therefore he is to be cognizant that he is taking a chance.
20:59 asciilifeform but in any case it must be in his interest to not immediately run to enemy.
20:59 mircea_popescu well, to me this seems a much larger risk than the possible insolvency of alf.
20:59 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu can think of some kindler, gentler means of arranging this incentive, asciilifeform is all ears
21:00 asciilifeform but asciilifeform has NO desire to simply pile btc on top of google's 500k or whatver, bounty.
21:00 mircea_popescu seems to me that if the one is looking to eat out of his work, he'll likely not even know you exist. because the sort of people dumb enough to depend on their daily labour for their sustenance while at the same time smart enough to reverse engineer are a very narrowly defined set. one is guaranteedly pantsuit.
21:01 mircea_popescu whereas if he knows about you, it seems altogether unlikely he'd even consider talking to google about it, and for the same reasons.
21:01 mircea_popescu so... i can't imagine the problem you're trying tro approach even exists, which is why i can't come up with a way to solve it.
21:01 asciilifeform by this logic ( and i suspect that mircea_popescu is right , in earlier thread ) there's no point .
21:02 mircea_popescu well looky, i'm not trying to ruin your fun here, but if yo uwant me to try an follow along ima try as best i can. so far, it's not taking me far.
21:02 asciilifeform if it's dead in the water, what fun.
21:02 asciilifeform i dun ask mircea_popescu to stroke my fur and say 'it will all surely work', the gods gave us mircea_popescu specifically to say 'eh this is dumb'
21:03 mircea_popescu it's not even dumb, it's like a pcb with a large hole in the middle.
21:03 asciilifeform funnily enuff i got one of those right here
21:03 asciilifeform worx great
21:03 mircea_popescu lol
21:03 asciilifeform ( it's a radio with air core transformer.. )
21:03 mircea_popescu "hands off my tube tv!!"
21:03 * asciilifeform recently set up a (rx-only , for nao ) shortwave thing
21:04 asciilifeform !!up loper_os_cr50
21:04 mircea_popescu !!up loper_os_cr50
21:04 deedbot loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
21:04 deedbot loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
21:04 mircea_popescu MOAR!1
21:04 asciilifeform lol
21:04 asciilifeform loper_os_cr50: hey
21:04 phf asciilifeform: my thinking is that your goals ("didn't leak to google") ought to be separate from the testing procedures ("can buy from amazon in a month"). some of your goals are potentially untestable and it's up to whoever's doing independent verification to come up with the procedure for testing, or dismiss the goal as untestable. then up to you to either find a different arbiter, or agree not to pursue one of the goals. i think that providing both
21:04 phf goals and procedures inadvertently put the arbiter in the position of affirming that the goal has been or been not achieved but without following own procedures. in other words you want me to potentially call that the source has been leaked to google, but rely on a procedure that i can't possibly consider adequate for the verification.
21:05 asciilifeform phf: i'm still waiting to hear why the test algo i proposed, somehow resolves to 'untestable'
21:05 asciilifeform imho it is as testable as 'factor this key'
21:05 mircea_popescu but not as meaningful.
21:05 mircea_popescu "yes, 3=3, however that did not do anything".
21:05 asciilifeform meaningful. i either get a pile of c101pa with rewritable cr50 256kB firmwares, or not.
21:06 asciilifeform pretty simple test.
21:06 phf mircea_popescu: _procedure_ is testable, but it doesn't necessarily verify the _goal_ (following my adhoc terminology above)
21:06 phf err asciilifeform: ^
21:06 asciilifeform if phf can think of a way to 'game' the 'exam', i'm all ears.
21:06 asciilifeform but the problem of making it impossible ~mechanically~ is unsolvable in the general case. and cannot be done in any contest, this or other.
21:07 asciilifeform hence the role of referee.
21:07 asciilifeform imho i have described enough of a mechanical litmus, that a referee can stand on solid ground.
21:08 asciilifeform phf: if you still feel like refereeing, feel free to propose own set of procedure , to asciilifeform .
21:10 asciilifeform ( if 'he made this bizarre algo and i cannot make heads or tails of it' is the obstacle )
21:10 mircea_popescu consider this : i set up a tent at porcfest, advertising "mp slavegirl intake". and there is sure enough a lengthy line of bikini clad beauties before it. i also put slavegirl in tent, and instruct her to reject the ugly ones. ugliness is "mechanically testably alf 3.o" defined as "lacks third tit". end of day, my slavegirl's pretty downcast.
21:10 mircea_popescu "what the fuck is your problem ?" "i just spent all day telling teenagers they're ugly because they don't have three tits".
21:10 phf i don't think "can still buy and diddle of amazon in a month" is adequate test for "didn't leak the patch to google". but i don't think there's a procedure to test the goal in general (see absence of evidence above). perhaps you could restate the goal, but then whatever restatement i'm not sure it will be under the control of the participant. in fact as mircea_popescu pointed out, a restatement of this particular goal simply introduces a random element
21:10 phf outside of participants control to the game.
21:10 asciilifeform phf: it is impossible to make the receipt of the 2nd half of prize fully in the hands of the player, this is entirely correct.
21:10 asciilifeform however there MUST be some incentive not to go straight to enemy.
21:11 mircea_popescu maybe you should offer marriage
21:11 asciilifeform lol
21:11 asciilifeform i dun swing that way..
21:11 mircea_popescu a review of extant literaturer shows this is the only known-to-work example of a cut to your problem.
21:11 mircea_popescu well, scholarship only helps in the way it helps, what can i tell you.
21:11 phf gentleman's word, if only there was a mechanism to verify a gentleman's trustworthiness
21:11 asciilifeform i dun see what's wrong with a 'pill WILL work month later, even if you have to go and hbomb google hq' clause. )
21:12 asciilifeform formulated simply as 'to get other half of prize, it will be the case that vendor update month from submission day, does not contain patch for hole'
21:12 mircea_popescu "get third tit implants!! UGLY FUCKERS!!!"
21:12 asciilifeform lel
21:13 mircea_popescu it may be the case, now and again, that your own fetishes aren't a worldwide concern.
21:13 asciilifeform if were 'worldwide concern' problem'd be licked already, neh.
21:13 mircea_popescu see ?
21:13 asciilifeform hence idea, i put actual coin in.
21:13 mircea_popescu i don't think money works like you think it does.
21:13 asciilifeform likely not !
21:14 asciilifeform i dun think i actually disagree with mircea_popescu , re: whether there will be a winner.
21:14 asciilifeform quite likely there will not.
21:14 asciilifeform what i would like to avoid, however, is the fucking trannies.
21:14 asciilifeform the 'whinners', if you will.
21:15 mircea_popescu this is a more difficult thing than you think.
21:16 asciilifeform it isn't trivial. but i can only with difficulty picture a contest where it is easier than in this one.
21:17 mircea_popescu the more i think about this, the more i want alf to be in charge of all sorts of things. imagine alf-run horsetrack.
21:17 asciilifeform esp. given a politically reliable ( and why shouldn't he be ) referee.
21:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do they still have human referees at horse tracks ? i thought it was all laser nao..
21:17 mircea_popescu "this opera is only good if building not flooded during a nine week interval after itwas played"
21:18 mircea_popescu "to prove it was not insult to god of the rain"
21:18 asciilifeform actually plenty of biznis worx like this. i had a squirrel exterminator make precisely this guarantee, on paper.
21:18 mircea_popescu as a statistical approach.
21:18 asciilifeform 'if they reappear in $period, obligated to rework for $0'
21:18 mircea_popescu your remedy is... he comes does it over.
21:18 mircea_popescu right.
21:19 asciilifeform legendarily , in ming china, doctor was paid while patient was alive and healthy
21:19 mircea_popescu hence -- marriage. that prostitution contract whereby if the fuck doesn't take, worker's obliged to re-do.
21:19 asciilifeform we're contemplating a 4 wk marriage, of sorts, i guess.
21:19 asciilifeform if iran can have 4hr marriages, why not this.
21:19 mircea_popescu maybe ~THEY~ don't swing that way ?
21:19 asciilifeform maybe!
21:20 asciilifeform i mean, already ~all i expect from $contest is a slightly taller than usual pile of 'you suxxx!!' mail
21:20 mircea_popescu this is starting to sound like addiction!
21:20 asciilifeform lol
21:21 asciilifeform but if it dun get tried, than it won't have been tried. or sumthinglikethat.
21:22 mircea_popescu i'd like alf state lottery. "if you win and after 10 years are poor, you win again"
21:23 asciilifeform thus far asciilifeform seems to be the only one among the thinking folx who thinks that this idea had any life in it. so i suppose i'll shelf it for nao..
21:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: naaa, moar like 'if you win and poor after 10y, we sell you into afghan goat slavery'
21:23 mircea_popescu i think the principal result of the discussion is, "can't have multi-pronged or articulated contests"
21:24 mircea_popescu either can have arbitered contest, which defines a goal in human lang ; or else can have exam, which defines a final state, in machine lang.
21:24 asciilifeform well as i understand it , mircea_popescu dun like one of the proposed goals because it includes an element of chance
21:25 asciilifeform (i.e. 'what if enemy , on own power, finds the hole within $period' )
21:25 mircea_popescu no, the objection is to the mix. if you want to specify, then you must specify. if you're going to "incluide an element of chance", then the specification pretense is spurious.
21:25 mircea_popescu there's no such thing as chainsaws sold with elements of chance.
21:26 asciilifeform what exactly is wrong with 'if, for any reason whatsoever, pill doesn't work in fw released on aug 1, the 2nd half of prize will be returned to the pot contributors' ?
21:26 mircea_popescu that it sounds exatly like a scam.
21:26 mircea_popescu consider : i give you pill, you sell it to google, you tell me it's my fault.
21:26 asciilifeform all contests promising coin sound like scam, neh
21:26 asciilifeform who even believes that coin can be had.
21:26 mircea_popescu or you never even thought of this ?
21:26 asciilifeform of course thought.
21:26 mircea_popescu so then ?
21:26 asciilifeform player only trusts us ( well, referee in person ) in so far as he trusts.
21:27 mircea_popescu and if you want to be trusted, why aren't you trusting ?
21:27 asciilifeform which is 1 reason why such contests are thin on the ground.
21:27 asciilifeform because i trust heathens about as far as i can throw'em ?
21:27 mircea_popescu what can i tell ya.
21:28 asciilifeform i suppose we can revisit $thread if somebody l1 says 'i wanna referee'...
21:28 phf also contest starts around the time that ascii publishes articles on subj, conceivable that someone else decides to look at the cr50, white hats a vulnerability to google.
21:28 asciilifeform phf: also possible !
21:28 asciilifeform what can i say.
21:28 asciilifeform thing is more or less guaranteed to get some attention in enemy camp.
21:29 asciilifeform on top of whatever massage already done ( and much as i hate to say it, it seems like a fairly high quality boobytrap )
21:29 asciilifeform y'know, sorta like those italian all-plastic mines with three anti-handling detonators.
21:31 asciilifeform all in all, i'd rather not have the contest at all, than to chance to give coin to fucking alice_m to add coin cherry to the top of a google bounty cake.
21:32 asciilifeform phf: speaking of which, consider the easiest winner , if the anti-patch condition is absent -- a google shitmonkey who knows the hole already and 'wins' on the monday right prior to patch tuesday.
21:32 mircea_popescu it's entirely there, that's exactly how this "foss" shit works, by sexiness.
21:32 mircea_popescu there's even a trilema about it.
21:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, overwhelmingly likely.
21:33 mircea_popescu and who thereby makes you an instrument of fucking up the market for people who genuinely put sweat in. and so on.
21:33 asciilifeform aha.
21:33 phf asciilifeform: yes. a bounty is open to all comers, even the dude's brother.
21:33 asciilifeform phf: right, hence the '2nd half' clause.
21:33 asciilifeform but if it can't be done to mircea_popescu's satisfaction, i'd rather not do it at all.
21:34 mircea_popescu i tell you i dun see this as it stands.
21:34 phf "wanted: johnny pistolas. $1000 dead or alive. bounty not accepted from relatives."
21:34 asciilifeform phf: no, again, 'bounty not accepted if he turns up alive within month of 'his' head being brought in'
21:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, notice how well arbitering works! i have no way to specify ~whether~ im actually paying a coin into this shipile or not. NOR DO I CARE. i'm just letting you arbiter.
21:35 mircea_popescu phf, "bounty $100 paid for any information of whereabouts of dangerous criminal, except if he shoots the police and escapes"
21:35 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu doesn't see how the contest can be set up without creating a refereeing clusterfuck, or enriching alice_m, then i refuse to ask him to put any coin into any such thing.
21:37 asciilifeform but if one of the folx tuned in, knows how to make the binomial add up, plox to write in.
21:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, honestly, it was a pretty entertaining and informatrive discussion, by my lights. what mosfilm always wanted to make and never managed.
21:37 asciilifeform verily.
21:37 mircea_popescu !!up kiboneu
21:37 deedbot kiboneu voiced for 30 minutes.
21:38 mircea_popescu cnomad, having trouble with the dingbat ?
21:38 cnomad yeah
21:38 mircea_popescu do it here.
21:38 cnomad is the competition you guys are referring to for popping that chip?
21:38 cnomad !!up
21:38 deedbot You must be registered.
21:38 cnomad idk w/e
21:38 asciilifeform cnomad: yes
21:39 mircea_popescu trinque, wth ?!
21:39 mircea_popescu !!key cnomad
21:39 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF.asc
21:39 mircea_popescu cnomad, might have run into some oddball bug or something, we'll see what maintainer sez.
21:39 asciilifeform he doesn't show up in the deedbot www yet
21:39 asciilifeform but possibly that one's nonrealtime
21:40 cnomad so, some advice, if you want -- competition format for long term research is not a great motivator, since it doesn't guarantee that someone will get paid for their time
21:40 mircea_popescu that one -- once a day. but afaik "is registered" == "!!key outputs"
21:40 asciilifeform cnomad: we ain't about to pay for 'tried'
21:40 cnomad like if 2 ppl work on the chip, someone pops it first,
21:40 asciilifeform at least, asciilifeform isn't
21:40 cnomad right but you see what I'm saying?
21:40 asciilifeform certainly.
21:41 asciilifeform there is no solution, however.
21:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, understand the problem he describes. if arbitrarily prize is 1k, work required to pop is 1k, and 1k people participate, you are likely to pay about 0.5 per unit work.
21:41 cnomad you need to assemble a team of people and pay them according to a statement of work.
21:41 mircea_popescu yes you pay 1k for the pop ; but the long graph of sub-1k effort adds up to maybe even multiples of 1k.
21:41 asciilifeform yes, and there is not actually, afaik, any possibility of a solution to such a problem.
21:41 mircea_popescu anyway, ima be off to steaks. laters!
21:41 cnomad success isn't guaranteed but you could make a lot of headway for future research
21:42 cnomad anyway, just food for thought
21:42 trinque gpg: 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF: skipped: unusable public key
21:42 asciilifeform cnomad: i ain't about to sponsor a team of lunch eaters.
21:42 trinque as the case tends to be
21:42 trinque so lemme go see why
21:43 trinque expired, as usual.
21:43 asciilifeform cnomad: idea of contest, i found appealing because 1) inexpensive 2) simple , relatively, to administer, and does not require 'teams' of jobsworths.
21:43 trinque cnomad: why did you put an expired key into poor deedbot?
21:43 cnomad no it expires in november
21:43 cnomad prolly looking at a subkey
21:43 trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtQcw/?raw=true
21:43 asciilifeform cnomad: all of your subkeys seem to have expired
21:43 trinque I'm looking at what ended up in deedbot's keyring when you fed it that key
21:44 asciilifeform the newest, in 2016.
21:44 asciilifeform are you posting through a time-warp, cnomad ?
21:45 asciilifeform cnomad: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7Gkmk/?raw=true << subj
21:45 cnomad pub rsa4096/0x8D6436492F4A69AF 2015-11-14 [SC] [expires: 2018-11-10]
21:45 cnomad 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF
21:45 cnomad uid [ultimate] Kiboneu <*@kibon.eu>
21:45 cnomad sub rsa4096/0x493D43E595D52480 2015-11-14 [E] [expires: 2018-11-10]
21:45 asciilifeform not in this key !!
21:46 trinque also use the paster next time
21:46 asciilifeform the paste shows what is in the key that deedbot saw.
21:46 asciilifeform cnomad: somehow you gave deedbot a key from before you re-signed the rsa4096/0x8D6436492F4A69AF one
21:46 asciilifeform ( prolly you kept it around somewhere ? )
21:47 cnomad oh
21:47 cnomad i guess i didn't update my site
21:47 cnomad one moment
21:47 * asciilifeform did this at least 1ce, prior to 'fucking, i'ma dispense with the expiration nonsense'
21:48 cnomad ok update my site
21:48 cnomad anyway
21:49 cnomad it might be harder to assemble a team than a contest, but you'll prolly have better results
21:49 asciilifeform revisiting upstack : i categorically refuse to pay for any cr50 related work that does not produce a working and practically applicable pill. because there is no way to ensure that 'paid to advance art' rather than 'paid 10 derps' mortgages and student loans'
21:49 cnomad well that's where reputation comes into play
21:50 asciilifeform cnomad: on the contrary, the shitstack that passes for modern pc and its soft, is result of 'hire a team'.
21:50 asciilifeform i want no part of this.
21:50 cnomad heh
21:50 cnomad ok
21:51 asciilifeform it'd be an invitation for every possible fucking parasite, not to mention 'law abiding citizens' etc
21:52 asciilifeform cnomad: at any rate, if you read today's log, you will know that there probably will not be any such contest.
21:52 asciilifeform seems like nobody can figure out a satisfying set of rules.
21:53 trinque cnomad: expect me to go looking for your key or what?
21:53 asciilifeform cnomad: you gotta re-reg that key, if you want it to work
21:53 asciilifeform with the nonexpired one.
21:53 trinque no, he has to hand it to me now in a paste
21:53 asciilifeform aa
21:53 cnomad trinque: https://kibon.eu/kiboneu.asc
21:54 trinque no, I'm not doing this for you again in November.
21:54 cnomad ok then don't
21:54 asciilifeform cnomad: i recommend to switch off expiration, it never did anybody any good.
21:55 cnomad i'll get to it when i get to it
21:55 asciilifeform ( there is a historic thread on the subj, that i cannot presently find )
21:55 trinque what's this 14 year old cunt routine now?
21:56 asciilifeform trinque: cut the fella a bit of slack, he doesn't yet grasp that he's come to olympus, thinks he's in village pub still
21:56 trinque this isn't comcast technical support, might find me getting to it when I get to it too.
21:56 cnomad you're the one who asked me
21:57 cnomad lol
21:57 cnomad anyway, good luck with your project
21:57 asciilifeform doubt we'll be seeing him again.
21:59 asciilifeform might have to wait another yr to get a new n00b with half a brain.
21:59 asciilifeform ( i daren't to even dream about finding ones with ~whole~ )
22:01 asciilifeform 'in the great birdlessness, my arse is a nightingale' -- asciilifeform's grandfather .
22:06 trinque deedbot has to be one of the longest running and most reliable services here
22:07 asciilifeform i have 0 complaint re deedbot.
22:07 asciilifeform nor do i expect trinque to massage folx on demand and for phree.
22:08 asciilifeform i'dve let this one live tho.
22:09 trinque I dun recall kicking, or even telling the guy to leave.
22:09 asciilifeform '14 year old cunt routine' to uninvested intelligent n00b is not so diff. but watever.
22:12 asciilifeform possibly easily disheartened folk, we're better without, this is defensible. i've nfi.
22:13 * trinque stopped what he was doing to help, guy couldn't lift a finger.
22:14 asciilifeform d00d prolly saw 'wtf masonic ritual, why am i here, in kitchen there is vodka and it won't drink itself'
22:14 asciilifeform but sure.
22:16 asciilifeform speaking of which, i'ma bbl.
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
23:32 * mod6 is finally caught up
23:32 mod6 evenin'
23:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, did you just cost me a dime ?
23:35 mircea_popescu in other news, this doris thing sure knows its steaks!
23:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824822 << the sad part is that work has to be done whether it produces anything or not.
23:42 a111 Logged on 2018-06-13 01:49 asciilifeform: revisiting upstack : i categorically refuse to pay for any cr50 related work that does not produce a working and practically applicable pill. because there is no way to ensure that 'paid to advance art' rather than 'paid 10 derps' mortgages and student loans'
23:43 mircea_popescu though, amusingly, the costa rican standard of food service is "solo bueno", which literally means they'll waive charges for items you didn;t like.
23:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if d00d never returns, he'll get gc'd at some point, neh
23:49 mircea_popescu not afaik ?
23:49 asciilifeform ( trinque , what exactly is done to these ? )
23:50 mircea_popescu i'm in an impossible situation, on one hand this happens to be the correct approach i'm deploying, not dumbass contests. on the other...
23:50 mircea_popescu "oh, don't send bitcoin to noobs unprepared to appreciate what it is".
23:50 mircea_popescu fuck me rwanda.
23:50 asciilifeform fwiw asciilifeform doesn't throw coins at folx who aint even truly born yet. but asciilifeform worx with much smaller budget .
23:51 mircea_popescu and how do you get them to "truly born" ?
23:52 asciilifeform varies. i dun recall e.g. spyked , or ave1 , getting coin thrown at
23:52 asciilifeform ( tho iirc ave1 did get a FG at some point )
23:53 mircea_popescu i have no idea what you're talking aboot.
23:53 trinque any transfers the dood got are right there, waiting for him to politely give me a nonexpiring key
23:57 asciilifeform trinque: out of curiosity, how come deedbot even cares re the expir date thing ?
23:58 asciilifeform what's the win
← 2018-06-11 | 2018-06-13 →