Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-10-10 | 2017-10-12 → ↓
01:33 BingoBoingo So, replies finally coming in from the Pinoys, the Hong Kongs, and a lone Thai outfit that outsources their email to wix.com
01:36 BingoBoingo And the HK business day starts at 4 am UTC
01:36 BingoBoingo As always reading email headers is informative
01:38 mircea_popescu ahaha build your free site, srlsy ?
01:38 BingoBoingo And corporate overlaps can be lulzy http://igarment.net/
01:38 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Seriously.
01:42 BingoBoingo And now that there are replies, plural for a change; the responses are bifurcating. There is "more information on your company pls" and then there is "more information on your requirments pls"
01:43 BingoBoingo Numbers and pricing information however are still elusive.
~ 7 hours 19 minutes ~
09:02 shinohai LOL davout ` we all have our "~/niggers.txt" `
09:03 davout yeah, i couldn't resist
09:04 shinohai ^______________^
09:11 shinohai !#s amlbitcoin
09:11 a111 0 results for "amlbitcoin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=amlbitcoin
09:11 shinohai http://archive.is/QnHtB <<<< hilarious
09:12 shinohai "Fuck guys, were on nsa watchlist, can't use amlbitcoin" "Oh noes, WHAT THE FUCK WE GONNA DO?!?!"
~ 28 minutes ~
09:40 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://archive.is >> 502 Bad Gateway
09:42 asciilifeform meanwhile, in world of koch, https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/735840/11066f48be7a5f92 << >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c1NUm/?raw=true
09:42 asciilifeform 'Koch then moved into Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC), which he discussed at some length. RSA, he said, is not likely to stay secure for much longer without really large keys. Support for 4096-bit RSA keys has been in GnuPG for some time, but Koch contends that real security will require 16Kb keys; that makes keys, fingerprints, and signatures all unusably long, particularly for embedded devices and hardware security modules (HSMs)
09:42 asciilifeform .' << didjaknow!
09:42 asciilifeform 'So instead he's moving toward ECC ciphers, which are well-researched — more so than RSA, according to Koch. '
09:43 asciilifeform '...the timings from the RSA HSM showed that a doubling of the key length increased the time required to sign nearly six-fold, and the time for verification even more. The timings from the Ed25519 HSM were agreeably small (all sub-50ms).' << this is precious
09:43 BingoBoingo !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/sQ39n/?raw=true
09:43 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
09:44 asciilifeform and naturally no koch speech is complete without a 'the web of trust, he feels, is inherently broken. It is only explicable to geeks, and not to all of them, it publishes a global social graph, because signatures on keys imply physical meetings on known dates, and it doesn't scale.'
09:51 BingoBoingo Awe, his poor tired rectum mouth
~ 29 minutes ~
10:21 phf to be fair gnupg's wot and the corresponding mechanisms are broken. that's where the whole "trusted key" and such nonsense come from
10:24 mircea_popescu tru.
10:25 phf but at the same time it's handy strawman: ~web of trust~ is broken, because our take on it is a piece of shit. i thought that's some pantsuit pattern discussed elsewhere
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10:32 asciilifeform it's the universal pattern. 1 of the half dozen or so basic hammers in their toolkit, along with 'unhappeneding', 'taiwaning', etc
10:33 mircea_popescu o ya.
10:38 phf ``Google shuts YouTube channel implicated in Kremlin political propaganda ops (techcrunch.com)'' ``although the videos did not gain significant traction on YouTube, according to The Daily Beast, which said they had only garnered “hundreds” of views prior to the channel being closed''
10:38 mircea_popescu wait, altrough is a tag ?
10:39 phf oh, man, i've been typing TeX yesterday, so the quotes got stuck
10:39 mircea_popescu ehehe
10:44 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
10:44 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4779.18, vol: 11788.21139918 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4778.2, vol: 39777.25429663 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4274.3844, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4780.3, vol: 4840.84169001 | Volume-weighted last average: 4778.58503167
10:44 mircea_popescu !~calc 100 / 4778.58503167
10:44 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 100 / 4778.58503167 = 0.02092669678100348
10:45 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 0.02092669 1E6MZ18LocVz4bLVTroKdpC9HTjzmiGaKe
10:45 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LLtaE/?raw=true
10:46 phf neat
10:46 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 0.02092825 1134zUnfvDRKrmkALRuUuseJfzMKZBYzgv
10:46 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/o2frw/?raw=true
~ 18 minutes ~
11:05 mircea_popescu and in fresh lulz from the mines, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9babk/?raw=true
11:09 ccmtacks !!key mircea_popescu
11:09 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452.asc
11:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have spamlulz to raise to that, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wlEbG/?raw=true
11:12 mircea_popescu ahahaha
11:12 asciilifeform plus another where 'Ukraine will be the first country in the world to legalize Bitcoin, Altcoins, Cryptobanks & ICO Trading. Be a part of history! Earn up to 20%...'
11:12 mircea_popescu i guess they don't know what cyprus is huh.
11:16 asciilifeform the ukrs did in fact recently put on some public spectacle where they hosted 'up and coming' shitcoinists, ethertards, et al
11:16 mircea_popescu im sure.
11:16 mircea_popescu you understand what concert promotion is yes ?
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11:16 asciilifeform aha same idea
11:16 mircea_popescu all this "conference" bs is much a subleaf of that, for the loser/womenz to try hand at.
11:18 asciilifeform i saw a little reportage, it was interestingly the ~exact same spamcarnival as seen prev in usa & elsewhere. oddly ~no homegrown orc scamola .
11:18 mircea_popescu idiocy is not really cross-cultural in this strict formal sense.
11:19 mircea_popescu local orcs have their own homegrown equivalents of graham-style "entrepreneurship".
11:19 asciilifeform they also have 'problem' of having been inoculated with mmm
11:19 mircea_popescu nah
11:20 asciilifeform my current understanding is that the ethertardium etc folx today target moneyed orcs, rather than homo-mmmicus .
11:20 phf every single 'civilian' conversation in ru i had with friends and friends of friends at some point had bitcoin brought up, and obviously not coming from me. in fact not even as part of "talking technology" track
11:21 asciilifeform phf: curious -- in what light brought up
11:22 phf depending on the person either the context of "you're a banker, what do bitcoin investment" or else futurism "soon there won't be ИПОТЕКА everything will be in bitcions, have you heard?"
11:22 asciilifeform lol!
11:24 shinohai lmao the U.S. futbol team was defeated 2-1 by *Trinidad and Tobago* and will not advance to the World Cup.
11:24 asciilifeform asciilifeform's relatives are ~all elderly emigre type and read volkischer beobachter and so naturally 100% of mention bitcoin is 'hey didja hear, that bitcoin thing finally HACKED!11!! soon valueless, president of imf proclaimed!' etc snoar
11:25 phf (ipoteka is a ru word by way of greece for mortgage, i've not heard it before when growing up, but now at a certain age it's a main conversation subject/as well as advertisement, so i've been cracking up every time i hear it. i've been forcing it as a catch all term for "orc financial matters" to the confused looks of my ru friends)
11:25 shinohai Since event is being held in Russia, inb4 Russian hackers fucked with the team
11:26 asciilifeform phf: it was part of the fiction where 'no we didn't surrender to americans, your rape is a traditional ancient greek, dontchaknow, rape style, nuffin to do with usa'
11:27 phf asciilifeform: well to do middle aged ru dentist types talked to me of bitcoin mining with a "please explain what the hell is going on". it's very much the opposite of the beobachter take, still as lulzy.
11:28 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/U0SNT/?raw=true
11:33 shinohai !~later tell jurov http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/zOfhc/?raw=true
11:33 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
11:38 mircea_popescu phf just about same here. i particularily enjoy situations where the "group expert" in "new trends" brings bitcoin to the group. particularily if 20something female.
11:38 mircea_popescu and yes, finance & futurism.
11:38 asciilifeform mas futuro!11
11:39 mircea_popescu quite exactly, it's never futurism as the 1920s artistic blaseness. it's always "i will r entrepreneurize" or "i will marry well" or such, translated in the new paints.
11:39 mircea_popescu it's a good thing the human rights crowd informs us "everyone wants to be and is an individual", because from experience i'd never have arrived at the idea.
11:40 asciilifeform for some reason folx always go around 'i will get rich'-ing and somehow never 'i will find my quicklime pit'
11:40 mircea_popescu i wonder why what is, snort snort.
11:43 mircea_popescu lmao "atenCOIN is rebranding to blablaBITCOIN". oook ?
~ 24 minutes ~
12:08 deedbot mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1723910 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OxPgo/?raw=true
~ 22 minutes ~
12:30 asciilifeform !~later tell mircea_popescu i had a thought re your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1722036 algo : instead of one stream generator, have N independent ones (each with own seed, and not necessarily all same hash fn) running in parallel, xor together. every rsagram changes a seed in ONE of these at a time. strength is bought by sending rsagrams moar often
12:30 a111 Logged on 2017-10-06 23:13 mircea_popescu: basically the scheme is, you rsa a random bitfield, then you expand that into as much otp as you want by doing recursively Fi = hash(bitfield + Fi-1). there's a limit on i, obviously, which can be set to 1.
12:30 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
12:32 mircea_popescu other than more complexity, what's this buy me ?
12:32 mircea_popescu and srsly don't later tell me when im right here wth.
12:32 asciilifeform oh hey
12:32 asciilifeform it buys you same thing http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1402315 buys you -- strength of the strongest one
12:32 a111 Logged on 2016-02-10 19:29 asciilifeform: (incidentally, the problem of an inner cipher introducing known-plaintextisms is solved routinely by splitting the payload into xor-able halves, using rng, and enciphering each ~half~ with different cipher, rather than box-in-box composition)
12:33 asciilifeform also eliminates the problem where there is a known relation between adjacent pieces of ciphertext where plaintext is known
12:33 asciilifeform ( which you have if i+1 = H(i) )
12:35 mircea_popescu i don't get it. so instead of one item with the above three problems, i now have three, and they're hashed together. so ?
12:35 asciilifeform you can trivially prove that, for crypto break (vs e.g. side chans) enemy must break either a) all of the rsagrams b) all of the hashes
12:35 mircea_popescu right.
12:35 asciilifeform they ain't hashed together, no
12:35 mircea_popescu which he does.
12:36 mircea_popescu this idea is not akin saying "if you are worried about your gallon jar breaking and spilling your rum, use 4 quart jars". works irl.
12:36 asciilifeform each one in particular runs as mircea_popescu's old algo does. the otps, however, are xored to form the otp that gets used in the end.
12:36 mircea_popescu but online, if he breaks one he breaks all 4.
12:36 asciilifeform depends how breaks neh
12:36 mircea_popescu not unlike*
12:36 mircea_popescu well how. if hash function is preimage weak, they all will be.
12:36 asciilifeform why ?
12:36 mircea_popescu doh.
12:37 asciilifeform you used N different functions neh.
12:37 mircea_popescu cuz this exists now "?
12:37 mircea_popescu i can't fucking find one. you want me to use n
12:37 asciilifeform who said i had 1 much less n to offer with this recipe. i learn from the masters!11
12:37 mircea_popescu that's nice, but tell you what, 1880 airplanes all failed if one did. and one did. any one.
12:38 asciilifeform let's take however the variant where they all use same type of hash (e.g. keccak) but with independently FG-generated seeds. you still remove the i+i==H(i) known-relation problem.
12:38 asciilifeform *i+1
12:38 asciilifeform grr
12:39 mircea_popescu to recapitulate for the noobs : the converse of "we have no strong security models for hash functions" does ALSO imply that we CAN NOT DISTINGUISH THEM.
12:39 mircea_popescu and this isn't a joke : the "distinction" between rsa and ecc, whereby "ecc is faster" or "has longer effective key" is bs. ECC is exactly RSA in polar coordinates, if either fails mathematically both do.
12:39 asciilifeform mno
12:39 asciilifeform different conjecturedhardproblem.
12:39 mircea_popescu discrete curves, diophantine equations, it's all the fucking same.
12:40 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu has the proof that 'all the same' quite a few folx would be interested to read.
12:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't know it's ACTUALLY different ; the expression sounds different, but there's a clear modulo space / elliptic curve relation.
12:40 asciilifeform as it would be a p ?= np proof.
12:40 mircea_popescu that was the point of all those galois fields discussions recently.
12:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't have the proof it is, but that's irrelevant. you don't have the proof IT ISNT.
12:41 mircea_popescu and so in certain context, such as this one, the correct assumption...
12:41 asciilifeform i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument.
↖
12:42 mircea_popescu yet nevertheless, the "g is a different hash function from f" "how do we know ?" "because george named his g and florence named hers f" is nonsense.
12:42 asciilifeform after 3 generations of dried dog shit, quite conceivably the last actual crytoanalyst ate nagant 30yrs ago.
12:43 mircea_popescu probably.
12:43 mircea_popescu leaving us with this situation where "a different hash function" is not even a meaningful mathematical construction.
12:48 asciilifeform proposed mechanism is applicable to 'stacking' any but the most screamingly rubbish prng. elementarily if the seeds are independent ( and they are, having been birthed from FG, ideally even from separate physical units ) the value of the streams at whatever index are also uncorrelated; and the xor will have period no shorter than of the longest period prng.
12:49 asciilifeform ftr i dun particularly like this style of mechanism. it is suggested solely as continuation of the theme from linked thread, where 'make best of a cpu-poor situation with existing algos'
12:51 mircea_popescu the problem is not the seeds per se, that fg solved.
12:51 mircea_popescu the problem now is at the next link in the chain, the fs.
12:53 asciilifeform proposed item is that if using 1 stream, knowledge of a segment of plaintext gives you something valuable to work with; if using 2+ -- nothing
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12:53 mircea_popescu but that nothing is entirely predicated of assumptions on how exactly "knowledge of segment" translates into the new world.
12:54 mircea_popescu if you get to double your heads, so does eve : now she has knowledge of a segment half size in each stream. tada.
12:55 asciilifeform i dun get it
12:55 asciilifeform knowing xor tells you 0 about what went into the xor.
12:55 mircea_popescu what ?
12:55 asciilifeform exactly that
12:55 asciilifeform see the otp thread
12:55 mircea_popescu look. situation 1, there's one stream, and enemy knows 1kb.
12:55 mircea_popescu you rpopose to move to situation two, where there's two streams AND YOU ALSO PROPOSE to not permit enemy to know 500bytes of each stream. why not ?
12:55 asciilifeform 1 xor 0 -> 1; 0 xor 1 -> 1; 0 xor 0 -> 0; 1 xor 1 -> 0 in case forgot.
12:56 mircea_popescu what is so SPECIAL about him that you get to move but he has to stay put ?
12:56 BingoBoingo ty mircea_popescu
12:56 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo does it check out ?
12:57 asciilifeform ground rule of crypto is that enemy has access to ciphertext and the occasional bit of plaintext ( guessed. ) if he has access to inside of your box we ain't doing cryptology, it is called perimeter defense
12:57 lobbes https://archive.is/2YF3J << more lulz from orclands
12:57 mircea_popescu and in other (lengthy) lulz : i cursed new girl with the old mpoe-pr curse, if you haven't guessed by now. the tardstalk this time is "black hat world", dedicated to "seo" and shit.
12:58 mircea_popescu of relevance to republican interests -- https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/bhw-trade-volume.978942/
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12:59 mircea_popescu tl;dr : sad story of non-tmsr wot implemented by heathens. 60k or so ratings totally exchanged, item collapsed into uselessness. why ? because not had and therefore not observed the http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ bible.
12:59 mircea_popescu their conclusion ? why http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1723899 of course
12:59 a111 Logged on 2017-10-11 14:25 phf: but at the same time it's handy strawman: ~web of trust~ is broken, because our take on it is a piece of shit. i thought that's some pantsuit pattern discussed elsewhere
12:59 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: ABout to find out
12:59 mircea_popescu and "what should you do" ? why, "your own". but HOW ? oh... just... you know. your own.
12:59 asciilifeform 'every time i add two numbers i get diff answer; arithmetic IS BROKEN'
13:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform point there was that enemy will have access to some plaintext of each stream.
13:02 asciilifeform there's no 'plaintext of stream'
13:02 asciilifeform the streams exist solely to be xored together into a pad
13:02 mircea_popescu what shall i do with this guy.
13:02 asciilifeform which then gets used as otp per mircea_popescu's original algo.
13:02 shinohai lobbes: They were prolly pissed because he didn't bring a bucket of KFC too
13:03 asciilifeform i'ma borrow method of apeloyee and post a pseudocode at some point, might become clearer.
13:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nevermind that waste of time/effort. think : when you say http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724006 you are actually imposing further conditions on the attacker than the null case.
13:04 a111 Logged on 2017-10-11 16:53 asciilifeform: proposed item is that if using 1 stream, knowledge of a segment of plaintext gives you something valuable to work with; if using 2+ -- nothing
13:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in your gedankenattack, to what items does enemy have access, and how did he get it ?
13:04 mircea_popescu lobbes how the fuck is bringing watermelons supposed to be discriminatory ? he wasn't gonna let the white guys have any ?
13:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't care, it makes no diff.
13:05 asciilifeform it does tho
13:05 asciilifeform always and for whatever system
13:05 mircea_popescu nope. in fact, thinking about enemy in this specified sense is inviting error.
13:05 asciilifeform if 'enemy is a telepath and can access anything', you don't have crypto, you have eating pistol or surrender
13:05 mircea_popescu but you ALREADY granted he has an X.
13:06 asciilifeform you gotta say which x in particular .
13:06 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Checks out
13:06 mircea_popescu here's how you state the story : "I have a Q". here is the correct statement : "Of all the possible Q that could ever exist, I have Q, the one and sole and only."
13:06 mircea_popescu here's what you move to : "I have a Q and a P". here's the correct statement : "Of all the possibles that may exist, Q and P, I have both".
13:06 mircea_popescu now it should be apparent : in the first case you let attacker have X of Q. in the second case, you MUST let him have X of Q and Y of P.
13:07 mircea_popescu if you do not, your hallucination of added security comes from your own arbitrary imposition of further constraints on attacker ; NOT from actual security.
13:08 asciilifeform but this is nonsense. he has x because he is able to - sometimes - infer it from a partial knowledge of q, because relation between x and q stream was 1:1. with multiple generators, it is now many to many.
13:08 mircea_popescu mno.
13:09 mircea_popescu security modelling is not engineering, it's modelling.
13:09 * asciilifeform straps on gas mask
13:09 mircea_popescu the proper equivalent of "he has either x of q or y or p but not both" is equivalent to "i only use p, and he has an x but IT IS NEVER THE X HE NEEDS haha! take that bitch! murphy works for me!"
13:10 mircea_popescu which is fun and fine and not useful.
13:10 mircea_popescu !!rate ccmtacks 1 Internet Marketing kid.
13:10 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CIpZM/?raw=true
13:11 mircea_popescu and if anyone was wondering how much dough the etsy chicks make, and which ones, and out of what exactly, http://www.craftcount.com/category.php?cat=3&subcat=4
13:12 asciilifeform i thought 'etsy' et al were long ago colonized by folx farming out grunt labour to pakistani etc
13:12 asciilifeform and 0 to do with american chixen knitting
13:12 mircea_popescu yeswell.
13:13 asciilifeform (0 reason why pakifarm cannot use name, mug, an' styling of a chix )
13:13 mircea_popescu should i have said " how much dough the etsy chicks don't make" ?
13:13 asciilifeform can also sum how much they 'dun make' at nasdaq; and while we're at it, how much fish they don't have at the proverbial sov fish counter
13:13 asciilifeform how much meat -- at meat counter.
13:15 mircea_popescu but it's with numbers!
13:15 asciilifeform lollers
13:16 mircea_popescu IT HAS LINK PROOF
13:29 asciilifeform 'So don't be fooled by post count, age, whatever. Fine. What are you fooled by?' << lol
13:29 mircea_popescu hm ?
13:29 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market-all
13:29 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
13:30 * asciilifeform tried, and failed, to distinguish linked site from the usual inmate-fat-powered spamulag
13:30 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
13:30 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4841.76, vol: 11479.89856307 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4835.9, vol: 37614.14524748 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4274.3844, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4844.1, vol: 4503.82418578 | Volume-weighted last average: 4837.84417367
13:30 BingoBoingo So, in new lulz... Telestra is soliciting business by posing as independent datacenters
13:30 mircea_popescu too bad you can't use bitcoin for anything. must be why it's crashing
13:30 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo heh!
13:30 asciilifeform shitcoin at ~0.06 incidentally.
13:31 mircea_popescu scratch the surface of "diversity" and "World of choice" juyst a little, admire the self-same oroborus maggot.
13:31 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i run into these continuously
13:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform oh, the little wolverine huh. she's one spirited hussy.
13:33 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: sorta like comp market in 1995 was superficially similar to walking into one from '85, except for the detail where all of the 'different comps you can CHOOSE from' run microshit on x86
13:33 mircea_popescu in the sense the 1985 market was similar to that from 1975, except all the "make your own computer" boxes were now made by ibm
13:34 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: This one was Pacnet, suggesting at least Pacific regional thing. Yet "Channel Director, East Region" of Telestra answered inquiry with "40 Wall Street, Floor 44, New York, NY 10005" in his signature
13:34 asciilifeform 'wouldja like a dell or a hp'
13:35 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo basically, the difference between orcs and niggers is that the niggers know they're niggers, the orcs still have delusions.
13:35 mircea_popescu meanwhile teh jewsuitis run all the things.
13:35 BingoBoingo Eh, there's still some pretty legit spelling azns working on making numbers
13:36 BingoBoingo Just WTF was with wix.com Thailand
13:36 mircea_popescu so you'd think. but then how many esl azns do you bed, cuz nobody speaks the truth outside the bedroom.
13:38 BingoBoingo That happens at later screening. The igarment.net people seem too impressively targeted to be Telestra so far.
13:49 asciilifeform in other 'we'll steal from tmsr, why not, and WEDIDITFIRST' lulzies, https://archive.is/kvyXQ
13:52 mircea_popescu lol, libre planet.
13:52 mircea_popescu incidentally, by now the tmsr schadenfreunde is probably peaking. all sorts of wanna-be groups that "have been doing it for longer" and bla bla.
13:52 asciilifeform ( same derps as hosted the koch talk linked earlier, loox like )
13:52 mircea_popescu "libre", fine example.
13:53 BingoBoingo lol @ "Vagrant Cascadian"
13:53 mircea_popescu "LibrePlanet was held March 25-26 in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the Stata Center on the campus of MIT." << whole story.
13:54 asciilifeform various lulz from same, e.g. https://archive.is/D1gJA >> ' McHardy first approaches a company to tell it that its product is not in compliance; he makes a modest demand (say €6,000-7,000) for his engineering time. He also asks the company to acknowledge and sign his cease-and-desist order; under German law that turns it into a contract. Once that has been done, sometime later McHardy will come back with other products that are also
13:54 asciilifeform not in compliance and require that the company pay a penalty for each, which can total to €500,000 or more'
13:55 asciilifeform twist : gpl-flavoured
~ 23 minutes ~
14:18 asciilifeform in very other lulz, at most recent count 'p' stands at 3.2kloc, of which 2k is ffa ( this is inclusive of comments, tests, and commented alt-incarnations of certain routines, as discussed in l0gz )
14:20 asciilifeform ( for comparison, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680705 )
14:20 a111 Logged on 2017-07-08 03:49 asciilifeform: i just counted gpg 1.4.10 : 156,436 loc -- and that ain't counting the autoconf liquishit, or the libs it pulls in
~ 19 minutes ~
14:39 mircea_popescu for completeness, re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1723997 : the reason this is an entirely spurious objection is that we're not discussing known-weak vs unknown-how-hard items but straight up unknown-hardness vs unknown-hardness.
14:39 a111 Logged on 2017-10-11 16:41 asciilifeform: i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument.
14:39 mircea_popescu and also worth nothingt that known-weak items usually are known in the hard crypto sense, of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718087
14:39 a111 Logged on 2017-09-29 00:14 mircea_popescu: whereas in the correct, crypto-relevant understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can make grounded promise that his effort will require at least X work"
14:40 asciilifeform afaik yer either in 'it's astrology, so hire cheapest' mode or yer not - tertium non datur
14:40 mircea_popescu eg caesar cipher, as discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto/#footnote_0_49969 is known-upper-bound, known-average-case etcetera.
14:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but have to keep astrology classes separate. then within any class, yes value function=1 for all items.
14:41 asciilifeform the 1 thing we have from von neumann's proof, however, other than otp per se, is the xor primitive, which provably composes N ~independent~ items of variant hardnesses, into the hardness of hardest input.
14:41 mircea_popescu yes. to uise it, must first prove independence.
14:41 mircea_popescu not assume independence, not merely outsource the burden of proof to government, etc.
14:47 asciilifeform if the number of generators is odd, the xor cannot make you worse off than before even if somehow they all became identical. however if even 1 of them is genuinely independent, you get the strength of that one. is what the 'ratchet' aspect of the xor is about.
14:48 mircea_popescu 1 is odd.
14:48 asciilifeform with 1 you get fixed known relationship between adjacent stream chunks.
14:50 asciilifeform ( tangentially, asciilifeform disrecommends the use of even numbers of XORed rngs in any system. incl. FGs. if enemy can somehow contrieve to tie the wires together, you will end up with 0,0,0.... )
14:52 asciilifeform ( 'but what about the even # of subunits in fg itself? ' -- that's what the red lamp, and much of the internal logic, is about )
15:00 deedbot http://trinque.org/2017/10/11/euse-enable-doc/ << trinque - euse --enable doc
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~
16:23 asciilifeform !!up BHopkins
16:23 deedbot BHopkins voiced for 30 minutes.
16:25 asciilifeform BHopkins: hello ?
16:25 BHopkins Hey
16:25 asciilifeform who might you be, BHopkins ?
16:26 BHopkins Just looking for a guy named zinx
16:26 mircea_popescu zinx ?!
16:27 mircea_popescu oh right, blackhat mod guy. how goes BHopkins ?
16:27 asciilifeform i was about to say 'i've never heard of a zinx' but it was in linked item earlier
16:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724023 <<
16:27 a111 Logged on 2017-10-11 16:58 mircea_popescu: of relevance to republican interests -- https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/bhw-trade-volume.978942/
16:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform same here lmao. girl's been raising hell over there apparently.
16:27 BHopkins Ya, MP, how are you?
16:27 mircea_popescu not bad, actually!
16:28 mircea_popescu so this orm thing... is it what they call old style media agencies ? a sort of ogilvy&mather for the internet age ?
16:28 BHopkins Exactly! We suppress negative listings and replace them with positive and controllable assets.
16:29 mircea_popescu aha. so : there's a bit of mismatch here, whereby the republic is powerful and rich, whereas the perception in usg owned peon farms is disjunct.
16:29 mircea_popescu that something you might want to work on ?
16:29 BHopkins I'm not interested in working with peon farmers :)
16:30 mircea_popescu ahaha.
16:30 mircea_popescu let us rephrase then. "whereas the perception in silicon valley spam farms, like facebook, huffpo, reddit, wikipedia etc".
16:30 mircea_popescu better ?
16:31 BHopkins Much better...In a nutshell, we do what gets results and what works. Sometimes that is high quality content, but other times, it's lower quality link building.
16:31 BHopkins End of the day, the results are what we're looking for
16:33 mircea_popescu here's the gist of the problem : when rando, such as for instance bill lawsky, stands up and says "we made these rules" bla bla, nobody in those verticals springs up the obvious "what proof do you have". if i say "i destroyed ETH/BCH/whatever, and here's the proof" the same nobodies come up with contorted nonsense like "ok but what proof do you have your proof is proofing?!?!?"
16:33 mircea_popescu this is a ridiculous state of affairs, and it will have to be returned to normalcy.
16:34 * shinohai munches on tea and biscuits, likes where this thread is going ......
16:34 shinohai Fuck, I jinxed it
16:35 BHopkins I guess I'll he returns :)
16:35 BHopkins oh back, good
16:35 BHopkins I've worked in this vertical a few different times, along with other verticals that have similar issues.
16:35 asciilifeform BHopkins: out of curiosity, which vertical 'had similar issues' ?
16:35 mircea_popescu (bill lawsky was this sort of mini-preet bharara, however briefly, meanwhile... retired.)
16:38 BHopkins @asciilifeform stock trading has sites like tradingschools.org that are essentially one mans negative opinions on everything except what he's selling.
16:38 asciilifeform i thought that described ~whole of www
16:38 mircea_popescu may be a difference of scope, but anyway.
16:38 mircea_popescu in perhaps more interesting questions, do you own any bitcoin BHopkins ?
16:38 BHopkins As for my recommendation, we're not trying to educate the general public through the search results. What we want to do is ensure they only find positive information when the search for a keyword.
16:39 BHopkins Nope, no bitcoin yet for me. But I've worked with a few other companies in this industry over the years.
16:39 mircea_popescu would you like one ?
16:40 BHopkins I had to look up the current price, and the answer is yes :)
↖
16:40 mircea_popescu post an address.
16:43 BHopkins I think I did it right: 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
↖ ↖
16:43 shinohai !!balance
16:43 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9sYwP/?raw=true
16:45 mircea_popescu BHopkins are you sure it is yours ? lest we blow up a whole flat's worth of hookers and blow.
16:46 shinohai I could payroll South American camhoes for a year on that lol
16:46 BHopkins That's what CoinBase is telling me...I clicked the "Receive" in the BTC Wallet section
16:46 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 1 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
↖
16:46 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/43rNX/?raw=true
16:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform see, coinbase. bitpay / blockchain.info dun stand a chance.
16:46 asciilifeform they stood a chance?!
16:47 mircea_popescu BHopkins will be processed later today ; at which point -- congrats, your first bitcoin!
16:47 BHopkins I almost feel a little dirty not playing by the conventional rules of money :)
16:48 mircea_popescu hah
16:48 * asciilifeform still not sure how (other than ceremonial aspect) this mechanism beats sending coins the old-fashioned way, from own actual node -- but it's still neat that trinque built a thing sturdy enough to run with coin
16:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform public.
16:48 mircea_popescu also allows to record something not before recorded : intention-to-pay.
16:48 mircea_popescu it gives human flesh to the bitcoin steel skeleton.
16:49 asciilifeform could achieve this without hotwallet, by signing proclamations. but yes this is convenient.
16:49 mircea_popescu convenience beats correctness every time.
16:49 BHopkins MP from what I understand, you're looking to clean up your search results?
16:49 mircea_popescu kinda why it's important to develop correct conveniences.
16:49 mircea_popescu BHopkins nah. i personally couldn't care less about "bad" things. for one thing, i've yet to meet the entity intelligent to say something meaningfully bad about me.
16:50 mircea_popescu no, traditionally the job is to either get interviews placed if the client is smarter than the press, or else to get reviews/testimonials/etc placed if the press is smarter than the client.
16:50 mircea_popescu given the situation in the field, interviews are probably the only workable approach.
16:51 BHopkins If not cleaning up the negative aspects of the search results, what would be your end goal?
16:52 mircea_popescu you mean other than a bevy of the younger "journalist" interns realising they're wasting their time in office clothes in new york and joining me naked in costa rica ?
16:53 BHopkins Don't be too judgmental of journalist "interns". I create some of those for our marketing purposes :)
16:53 mircea_popescu lol ok.
16:54 mircea_popescu eh.
16:54 mircea_popescu !!up BHopkins
16:54 deedbot BHopkins voiced for 30 minutes.
16:54 mircea_popescu BHopkins do you have a pgp key ?
16:54 shinohai In other advertising fun: http://archive.is/W1sNK
16:55 mircea_popescu shinohai inadvertently my foot. huge problem for all ad platforms.
16:55 shinohai ikr
16:55 asciilifeform shinohai: ~same thing sank yahoo's ad service few yrs back
16:55 BHopkins @MP no PGP key, do I need one?
16:55 asciilifeform ( somehow, not hosting arbitrary js/flasholade isn't an option for these, go figure )
16:56 mircea_popescu BHopkins yes. do you know what pgp is ?
16:56 BHopkins Vaguely, but not enough to have used it.
16:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they're mostly all based on user idiocy, clicks links ends up windows'd.
16:56 mircea_popescu BHopkins well, so get one. no way to do private communications without pgp. also no good way to have an identity online.
16:56 shinohai Ah Yahoo .... I was able to upload a BEeF hook inside an ad there once, no one batted an eye.
~ 28 minutes ~
17:25 mircea_popescu !!up BHopkins
17:25 deedbot BHopkins voiced for 30 minutes.
17:30 BHopkins MP I have a PGP key now...
17:31 mircea_popescu cool. do like elaine did : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717365
17:31 a111 Logged on 2017-09-26 04:38 elaineo: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wGuML/?raw=true
17:31 mircea_popescu and don't lose it!
17:32 mircea_popescu i'll rate you, which means you'll be able to self-voice so i don't have to keep patching it half hour at a time.
17:34 BHopkins https://0bin.net/paste/H8vSn1ejvZ3QcZvL#oNqdIKPnpxQypEWykvNMiav2BOtjtcuOs0QaZBzeVbT
17:34 BHopkins that work?
17:34 mircea_popescu it might. if not, use p.bvulpes.com for best results.
17:35 BHopkins !!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BcPgR/?raw=true
17:35 deedbot 252F0E9554CF3C1AAD91C3B50D2798D6B27564C8 registered as BHopkins.
17:35 mircea_popescu win
17:35 mircea_popescu !!rate BHopkins 1 blackhatworld mod/marketing guy
17:35 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9Gpi7/?raw=true
17:36 BHopkins I draw the line at the dark web. bitcoin, PGP, what's next? :)
17:36 mircea_popescu that's about it. what is this dark web ?
17:37 BHopkins Ok great, we briefly talked about marketing and interviews. Did you want to do a series of interviews?
17:38 mircea_popescu that could work.
17:40 BHopkins If not cleaning up the SERPs, was the idea to just share your expertise?
17:40 mircea_popescu mmm. it's not a matter of sharing expertise as such. it's a matter of breaking the fake media, let's say.
~ 15 minutes ~
17:56 mircea_popescu BHopkins say /query deedbot then say !!up to it and decrypt its challenge.
~ 15 minutes ~
18:12 mircea_popescu !!up BHopkins
18:12 deedbot BHopkins voiced for 30 minutes.
18:12 mircea_popescu let's see ?
~ 18 minutes ~
18:30 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:33 shinohai Srry BingoBoingo .... jhvh1 down for a bit
18:35 BingoBoingo It's ok, as long as you stay more responsive than Serbia
18:35 BHopkins It just says "Get your OTP" and then gives me a key. What do I do with that key?
18:38 BingoBoingo !!v OTPGOESHERE
18:39 BingoBoingo ^ WHat you do BHopkins
18:40 BingoBoingo In other news of the day, In USia girls can now be boyscouts
18:40 shinohai inb4 traps start selling me cookies
18:41 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i guess it was decided that they have arses like anybody, ergo compatible
18:41 BingoBoingo shinohai: Boy scouts are popcorn, not cookies
18:41 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Possibru
18:42 BingoBoingo In other, lesser struggles in the republic: I now have to decide if I care enough to contest speeding ticket in Appelate court
18:42 BingoBoingo !!up BHopkins
18:42 deedbot BHopkins voiced for 30 minutes.
18:42 shinohai Well see BingoBoingo, I figure its only a matter of time before they DO allow cookie sales and boys to wear brownie uniforms if they wish.
18:42 shinohai Inclusion ftw
18:43 BingoBoingo shinohai: You don't understand. Two completely seperate organizations. The girl scouts are already threatening lawyers!
18:43 shinohai lol
18:44 asciilifeform loox like usa simply aligning with classic su ( and german ) tradition, where there's 1 org
18:44 asciilifeform ( 'pioneers' and 'hitlerjugend' respectively )
18:45 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Could be they decide Baden Powel was racis and colonialist, and Charlottesville his statues
18:45 mircea_popescu did anyone else want reddit accounts ?
18:48 BHopkins !!v QIMA74TC/9ZkuPbAQ//dXLWRcdua3d38yoq2bMrc85MfX6m1b2GsyLG7zi82yJw a2JML9jdmUs9XFJwc9JMdY5bqWNLSJDIN9EWErKP5NtjpQv2f4thKANgoE0h4xBD 8AswzFMyL2o1yMhc9Wqs6ErsK9doPyw2HQToBGe/xiq9Up9s0AkYwci4Qe/8cTlE yYe8UIlXMcOfGdeNjUKb5GEBEFaIAa6SrxiHZ7Tly1o1wHzIMqIg7mhm/2iaE7yP TR5ZmhAZNXgflaVTE0L49iftxW53uDNFf+PMt9359kjV1bMWQ8VTyCv2/gdD+jS4 R2H9gKkbYB0oqf5Jyjonp82dkd5AQS3AMG/0JouIkzMhkMDRl2sDqQ2dn6JcVS+l 4+5FyG9azu8QNA6T0UbnhqdwMo9p1VzhNyhsCy2U7XFr
18:48 mircea_popescu BHopkins you have to decrypt it.
18:48 asciilifeform lol!
18:48 BHopkins :)
18:49 mircea_popescu that's the whole point, by proving you can decrypt something encrypted to your key you prove you are you.
18:49 BHopkins It's not about proof, it's about my personal inability :)
18:50 * BingoBoingo smells 30% chance of newcomer private key paste in the wind
18:51 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: pretty sure it happened before
18:51 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i dun think so ; tho it has happened before.
18:51 asciilifeform it's even happened that folx mis-point 'this end toward enemy', lol
18:52 BHopkins I can confirm 100% chance of newb to PGP
18:52 asciilifeform http://bunkerseeds.com/images/MON50/mon50.jpg << oblig
18:53 mircea_popescu is that the fertile soil of afghanistan, from back in the day a different empire was going there to die ?
18:53 asciilifeform could be anywhere, item is still made
18:54 asciilifeform american original has much funnier text, http://i.imgur.com/Occdk.jpg
18:55 asciilifeform according to legend, inscription originates with vietnam, where malingerers would eat small bits
18:57 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> did anyone else want reddit accounts ? << If they are anything like mine comes with bonus long walk to sanity through personal transformation
19:02 mircea_popescu lol
19:09 BingoBoingo Well, probably a natural fit for the typical target market
19:12 * BingoBoingo can't believe it's only another 5 hours until the latest round of "Who wants to fleece a Gringo" emails pour in
19:12 BingoBoingo !!up BHopkins
19:12 deedbot BHopkins voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 24 minutes ~
19:37 asciilifeform in very very other olds, http://jeanjacques.lacrampe.free.fr/webada/doc/gnat/gcc_10.html#SEC316 << -fpreserve-control-flow flag indeed appears to work ( but only up to -O1 )
~ 51 minutes ~
20:28 deedbot mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724173 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1z1hc/?raw=true
~ 54 minutes ~
21:22 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/suddenly-last-summer/ << Trilema - Suddenly, Last Summer
21:22 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/suddenly-last-summer/ << Trilema - Suddenly, Last Summer
21:25 mircea_popescu kik
21:27 shinohai Awww, when I archived it, you cant see the spiffy grey pantsuit: http://archive.is/YYkLk
21:40 shinohai "Maybe I'll have better luck in Romania!!!!" http://archive.is/QT0g2
21:51 mircea_popescu speaking of white weddings, http://78.media.tumblr.com/f038ef263132963010e1fe59cef09a0f/tumblr_o9b2387yoc1vuywi8o4_1280.jpg
~ 17 minutes ~
22:08 mircea_popescu in other lulz, sears canada closing altogether
22:08 mircea_popescu such buffett.
~ 21 minutes ~
22:30 BingoBoingo lol
22:31 BingoBoingo That's what happens when you double down on being a lumberless lumberyard
22:31 mircea_popescu i thought they mostly sold overpriced japanese watches and bad kitchenware.
22:32 BingoBoingo That's what they try to sell. They mostly end up selling tools (Which they sold to Stanley Black and Decker) and lawnmowers. Also assorted catalog novelty schlock other retailers won't touch
22:33 BingoBoingo "Fishtank coffee table" etc
22:34 mircea_popescu just had this 3kg apple pie come out of the oven so i have trouble feeling for radioshack-of-the-day
22:34 * BingoBoingo still pissed off he is going to have to take speeding ticket to appellate court
22:34 mircea_popescu BUT. no maga yet huh. 12k laid off.
22:35 BingoBoingo No MAGA until bum fuck nowhere court respects muh authoritie
22:35 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo make sure you claim admirality copyright indemnification:warranty or how it went.
22:36 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Officer admitted on the stand he was using radar device in a manner inconsistent with its labelling and contrary to NHTSA standards has not been certified in radar use since the 1990's
22:39 BingoBoingo Officer could also offer no answer to "What is the doppler effect" "What is cosine error" "What is cosine" "When was patrol vehicle spedometer calibrated"
22:39 mircea_popescu heh
22:40 BingoBoingo "I press the button, it shoots out beams and gives a speed" "But how do the beams give a speed" "They just do"
22:42 BingoBoingo In other lulz from first HK to wake up: iAdvantage Software, Inc. Parent Company: American Agricultural Services, Inc.
22:42 mircea_popescu o.O
22:47 BingoBoingo Oh, it looks like Hong Kong is waking up 2 hours earlier today
22:59 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Too early for purpose built hall? http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ggO94/?raw=true
23:00 * BingoBoingo finding Chinese trait of internal buck passing discussion happening in front of customer over email
23:00 BingoBoingo ADORABLE
23:01 BingoBoingo Such stotting behavior
23:02 BingoBoingo Gotta show the customer who is the boss and customer is being dumped onto
23:02 BingoBoingo *who the customer is being dumped onto
23:15 mircea_popescu sounds not bad.
~ 24 minutes ~
23:39 BingoBoingo It's a refreshing change of pace
23:40 BingoBoingo Anyways, Dickson (unsure if singular or plural): "Thanks for your enquiry, we will study your requirements and get back to you ASAP."
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