Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-02-17 | 2017-02-19 → ↓
00:25 mod6 <+BingoBoingo> In europe bird hunters hit at extreme range because they use 1, 2, or 4 gauge "punt guns", US maxes out at 10 and 12 gauge for the reason that ducks respond to bigger guns by just flying higher and then arms race << huh. yeah those would be huge.
~ 15 minutes ~
00:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FF78F12E4DAE7F53F707AFCDF4D779620F1D6237966F5F7B818BD3EA31FFBEA7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1471...5509 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.200.172.105 (ssh-rsa key from 89.200.172.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vserver75.antagus.de. DE)
00:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FF78F12E4DAE7F53F707AFCDF4D779620F1D6237966F5F7B818BD3EA31FFBEA7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1773...5243 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.200.172.105 (ssh-rsa key from 89.200.172.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vserver75.antagus.de. DE)
~ 8 hours 23 minutes ~
09:03 thestringpuller mod6 asciilifeform dunno if just weird artifact along with bad luck or actual potential problem, but my node running on slowest hardware is only receiving BASTARD BLOCK s. I'm connected to deedbot (a trusted node) with -addnode. using same patch tree as hanbot
09:09 thestringpuller http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jPlL4/?raw=true << node's log tail | grep "blocks", if it helps
~ 25 minutes ~
09:35 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/eulora-special-playable-character-list/ << Trilema - Eulora Special Playable Character List
~ 21 minutes ~
09:56 asciilifeform meanwhile, in shitcoinistan, https://zcoin.io/language/en/important-announcement-zerocoin-implementation-bug
09:57 asciilifeform 'We estimate the attacker has created about 370,000 Zcoins which has been almost completely sold except for about 20,000+ Zcoin and absorbed on the market with a profit of around 410 BTC. In other words, the damage has already been mostly absorbed by the markets.'
09:57 mircea_popescu aww.
09:57 mircea_popescu "absorbed by the markets" huh.
09:57 asciilifeform ABSORBED! didjaknow.
09:57 mircea_popescu well no cause for alarm then.
09:58 mircea_popescu hopefully this starts popping up in "rape" cases : your honor, the seminal fluid was already mostly absorbed by the alleged victim's uterus.
09:58 asciilifeform and also 'attacker' and definitely not 'aaah but we kept the magic inflatron key, what, idiot, you believed that we burned it?!'
09:58 mircea_popescu oh no, but i read on a website...
~ 17 minutes ~
10:16 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo is zcash even big enough to warrant qntra ?
10:16 mircea_popescu or sorry, zerocoin.
10:17 mircea_popescu meh whatever, ima two line it. if acceptable fine.
10:19 * asciilifeform had 'zcash' and 'zerocoin' hardlinked in head
10:28 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9osax/?raw=true
10:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i;m too lazy to go into the archives.
~ 1 hours 45 minutes ~
12:13 BingoBoingo ty mircea_popescu
12:14 mircea_popescu my pleasure
12:14 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/02/its-not-rape-if-her-uterus-meanwhile-absorbed-it/ << Qntra - It's Not Rape If Her Uterus Meanwhile Absorbed It
~ 20 minutes ~
12:34 deedbot http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/02/18/the-open-sores-of-monkey-code/ << Ossasepia - The open sores of monkey code
12:41 mod6 omfg
12:43 diana_coman selected delights from planeOfshit
12:43 mod6 im like...
12:43 mod6 thanks for all your hard work on Eulora.
12:44 mod6 i just read your article, nice write up. I'm stunned at what you're saying there.
12:46 diana_coman thanks! got a bit of it out basically; in any case, eulora server is being gradually rebuilt and ps will be entirely discarded
12:46 mod6 my mind boggles at how they even have this setup. for instance, in my mind, if you were going to have say, 30 different types of hats in the game, there would be a simple, abstract hat class.
12:47 diana_coman it really took me months to accept the evidence that "abstract" is something entirely unknown there
12:47 mod6 from there, you would extend the abstract hat, and provide whatever implementations required, including whatever x/y points or whatnot to draw the thing...
12:47 mod6 it sounds like this is /far/ from such a design.
12:47 diana_coman sure, they have classes and classes inheriting classes and so on and so forth, but as to the reasons for inheritance...
12:48 mod6 so ya, sounds like there is really no design pattern, or at lesat not a discernable one 'eh
12:48 mod6 like 'builder' or 'composition' etc etc.
12:49 diana_coman ahahah, design patterns, what, reading books next ? programming, yo!
12:49 diana_coman social coding thing I suspect
12:49 mod6 haha
12:49 mod6 my mind reels at what the whole slot location mechinism.
12:50 diana_coman myeah, that was cherry on top
12:50 mod6 some nasty type of pointer arithmatic or whatever 'eh?
12:51 diana_coman I suppose I should be grateful it is done with numbers straight rather than pointers too
12:52 mod6 well, someone may suppose that you'd rather smashed in the head with a simple rock, or this here complex ax head.
12:53 mod6 nice call graph too.
12:53 mod6 i think that kinda illustrates what you need to contend with.
12:53 mod6 you're basically a saint.
12:53 mod6 let me know if i can help somehow.
12:54 diana_coman hopefully won't end up thrown to the lions though :))
12:54 diana_coman thanks! :)
12:54 mod6 not on my watch.
12:54 mod6 anytime. :]
12:55 asciilifeform diana_coman: spiffy article, good illustration of the kind of affair ada was built to prevent
12:55 diana_coman asciilifeform, thanks!
12:55 asciilifeform (for instance, prohibits pointer arithmetic, or even the use of a pointer in any context other than where it was born; or to any item not in advance marked pointable-at.)
12:58 diana_coman aha, I had a bit of a look at ada but sadly no time to properly play around with it; I'm looking forward though to your ada implementations
12:59 asciilifeform diana_coman: i will be releasing a small proggy quite soon.
13:00 trinque imagine that this tangling of classes happens in the sinner skulls before disgracing code
13:00 trinque and they just let people walk around like that!
13:00 asciilifeform trinque: there is no tangle properly speaking ~in~ their skull. when proggy no longer fits in head, programming turns into a brute physical, rather than intellectual activity
13:01 trinque they're not incompatible points, really
13:02 mod6 the graph, suggests, to me, that the entire thing is very tightly coupled.
13:03 trinque I worked on a very sad qt project once upon a time
13:03 trinque class graph looked like a rat king
13:04 trinque and asciilifeform is right that the sheer mass of the thing made it impossible to lift into one's head
13:05 mod6 as far as this knot of ps, or the qt thing?
13:05 trinque but also there were plenty of idiots that could not think clearly about the problem in the abstract either, i.e. there is a board, it is to be carved along these paths, so on
13:05 trinque qt thing itself was an abominable nightmare of a hacked together carve-path drawing tool
13:06 mod6 eek
13:06 ben_vulpes ahaha diana_coman i salute you that is some serious archaeology
13:07 diana_coman ben_vulpes, cheers!
13:08 diana_coman mod6, "tight coupling" would be a very ....british way of putting it: I think trinque has it there with "rat king"
13:08 mod6 heheh.
13:08 diana_coman and yes, fwiw I don't think they bothered with having anything in their heads, not by the looks of it: hey, it WORKS, right?
13:09 mod6 "they have oatmeal in their heads"
13:09 ben_vulpes footnote 3 is a gorgeous little sentence, i don't think i've ever seen the like from a native english speaker
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13:10 asciilifeform it is a mistake to describe the agglomerative type of 'programming' as product of 'thought'. it is more similar to what dung beetle does.
13:11 mod6 aha
13:20 ben_vulpes monte carlo programming! deepblue, but with meatsacks
13:33 ben_vulpes !!up tarciboy who's your daddy and did he accomplish anything with himself?
13:33 deedbot tarciboy voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 30 minutes ~
14:04 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/02/bitcoin-network-difficulty-climbs-to-440779902286-58917236-yet-another-all-time-high/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Climbs To 440779902286.58917236 – Yet Another All Time High
14:18 thestringpuller diana_coman the sad thing is all the good gamedev code is sealed, especially after the mid 2000's renderware incident with EA.
14:19 thestringpuller oldie but goodie >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=849&cpage=1#comment-3952
14:25 thestringpuller it also happened recently iirc with the konami-kojima incident (wherein konami stole his Fox engine)
14:38 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/032879D0FB20DDECDC93ECC74D5785164A64D93357D29700D308BBB204DAF6D7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1588...1859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.50.76.91 (ssh-rsa key from 92.50.76.91 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (niki42a.b-e-n-s.net. DE)
14:38 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C5C8E6EE075A38BC03ED6A1920D4CF86AFD9A44E5B28872128DB520746406279 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1669...5977 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '173.212.181.68 (ssh-rsa key from 173.212.181.68 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-173-212-181-68.ptr.terago.net. CA ON)
14:38 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/032879D0FB20DDECDC93ECC74D5785164A64D93357D29700D308BBB204DAF6D7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1669...5977 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.50.76.91 (ssh-rsa key from 92.50.76.91 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (niki42a.b-e-n-s.net. DE)
14:38 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C5C8E6EE075A38BC03ED6A1920D4CF86AFD9A44E5B28872128DB520746406279 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1665...0247 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '173.212.181.68 (ssh-rsa key from 173.212.181.68 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-173-212-181-68.ptr.terago.net. CA ON)
14:52 mats http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dekalb-county/workers-horrified-at-make-killing-great-again-poster/495223396 lul
14:58 mircea_popescu lol epic diana_coman
14:58 mircea_popescu also my comment is awaiting moderation.
15:01 mircea_popescu mats holy shit that's some quick turnaround!
15:03 mats you'd think VA employees could distinguish .mil culture from a threat of workplace violence
15:03 mats somehow not surprised both whiners that appeared on tv are black...
15:06 mats help help i'm being oppressed by a poster
15:09 mircea_popescu heh
15:09 diana_coman mircea_popescu, cheers! and comment is on, of course
15:14 mircea_popescu anyway asciilifeform has it, the basically scour the web for code snippets much like dung beetle.
15:14 mircea_popescu but it's ok, they pay their debt to society by answering questions on experts sex change.
15:14 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615331 <- thank you!
15:14 a111 Logged on 2017-02-18 18:09 ben_vulpes: footnote 3 is a gorgeous little sentence, i don't think i've ever seen the like from a native english speaker
15:15 diana_coman mircea_popescu, yes, I think asciilifeform is quite right there - I *saw* "programmers" doing exactly that in fact
15:16 mircea_popescu i suspect everyone kind-of knows this which is why specific items such as "mysql" or "xml" or what have you are so heavy tinged with aversity pheromones.
15:16 mircea_popescu but irl, they just happen to be items with vast online documentation. so a lot of dung to snatch, as it were.
15:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: e.g., ada refmanual & rationale, whole talmud, is also on www... but somehow 0 rush to snatch dung
15:17 asciilifeform it ain't the 'well-documentedness' that attracts.
15:17 asciilifeform also must be shit. for the beetle to smell.
15:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform recall me trying to comprehend lisp and saying the documentation is absent ?
15:17 mircea_popescu same principle. TO THEM they might as well not be there, because in the abstract
15:18 mircea_popescu whereas "copy this code snippet to do json bro" is EVERYWHERE.,
15:18 asciilifeform http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Front/Contents.htm << even google finds.
15:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform was discussion in ben_vulpes 's castle.
15:18 asciilifeform so then 'massive trove of snippetage', rather than 'documentation' -- attracts.
15:18 mircea_popescu aha.
15:20 mircea_popescu it's i realise now, directly the problem - the snippetage. IF a language/method/package/abstract-item-whatever has a lot of "copy paste this snippet" built around it, then the useless worms that opened up and swallowed the immense productive assets and limitless human ingenuity existing in america recognize it for the business-world equivalent of their schooldays : THE HOLY CLIFF NOTES!!1
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15:20 mircea_popescu and so they attempt to built a career through the process and in the manner that built their "education".
15:21 mircea_popescu functionalistic culture. "i don't have to understand how fridge works as long as i know which door to open" is the first step to "and then i made the hay airplane but presents didn't drop from sky" after all.
15:21 mircea_popescu and "i just want to" is the mantra humming along, all of it.
15:22 mircea_popescu smatterings of "just because x I SHOULDNT HAVE TO y" now and again
15:33 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615245 << buggers are persistent, found a point of fragility i overlooked
15:33 a111 Logged on 2017-02-18 03:08 thestringpuller: !~isup http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
16:38 mircea_popescu check this novel rounding style out :
16:38 mircea_popescu !~calc 95.4 / 220
16:38 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 95.4 / 220 = 0.43363636363636365
16:39 mircea_popescu you'd think 4 comes after 3. but google knows better.
~ 45 minutes ~
17:24 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615371 << the nutrient alone is not enough to produce maggots. e.g., 'SWAG' archive ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-18#1241627 ) of pascal snippets existed, was first class . 0 maggotry.
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17:24 a111 Logged on 2017-02-18 20:20 mircea_popescu: it's i realise now, directly the problem - the snippetage. IF a language/method/package/abstract-item-whatever has a lot of "copy paste this snippet" built around it, then the useless worms that opened up and swallowed the immense productive assets and limitless human ingenuity existing in america recognize it for the business-world equivalent of their schooldays : THE HOLY CLIFF NOTES!!1
17:24 a111 Logged on 2015-08-18 01:51 asciilifeform: http://www.retroarchive.org/swag << proper archive.
17:28 asciilifeform it also requires http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3140985758772364@naggum.no.html .
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17:29 asciilifeform '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.'
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17:32 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/02/18/the-robot-tax/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The robot tax.
17:40 mircea_popescu imagine what $idiots could accomplish if they put all this pointless labour into actually doing something useful.
17:40 mircea_popescu "but mp, i just work here, it's not my life!"
17:40 mircea_popescu sure buddy, keep telling yourself that.
17:41 asciilifeform loluseful. such as what ?
17:43 mircea_popescu such as i dunno, the 5th channel logger.
17:46 asciilifeform why would you want one built by idiot ?
17:47 asciilifeform maybe it's just me, but i do not want idiots to anything. other than to stop breathing.
17:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform $idiots here takes values from {set of dorks working for usg thinking dicking around with freenode connectivity does something}
17:55 mircea_popescu "oh but mp... it puts my kids through college. i got dental!"
~ 17 minutes ~
18:12 mod6 haha
~ 19 minutes ~
18:32 asciilifeform !~later tell phf the chronometer b00k is spiffy.
18:32 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
18:32 asciilifeform even mentions an oil lamp attempt.
18:35 asciilifeform also mentioned a different crackpottery i had in my head -- to use pair of magnets instead of balance spring, to overcome the thermal boojum (that harrison ended up inventing bimetallic spring to solve) -- as having been tried, unsuccessfully, by huygens
18:35 asciilifeform (but did not say exactly how it failed.)
~ 58 minutes ~
19:34 mircea_popescu problem is getting magnets that stay put magnetically
~ 22 minutes ~
19:56 BingoBoingo Question: How do you reverse a ratcheting tap and die handle?
19:56 BingoBoingo Answer: You do not.
19:59 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: whythefuck does yours have ratchet
19:59 mircea_popescu to have greater power than itself ?
19:59 mircea_popescu aahandle
19:59 asciilifeform you want fine control when tapping
20:00 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Mine thankfully does not. Selected text taken from catalog faq
20:01 mircea_popescu and in today's walk among the ancient texts, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-12#792148
20:01 a111 Logged on 2014-08-12 02:19 TimSwanson: Because that's how normal debates work
20:05 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6642
20:16 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6651
~ 2 hours 6 minutes ~
22:23 thestringpuller asciilifeform: would i have to modify how OpenSSL is initialized in order to use FUCKGOATS with TRB? >> https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Random_Numbers#Hardware
~ 18 minutes ~
22:41 asciilifeform thestringpuller: that, or kernel
22:41 asciilifeform or wait for sane walletrons.
22:41 mircea_popescu kernel patch best way
22:42 thestringpuller kernel patch as in feed directly to /dev/random ?
22:43 mircea_popescu openssl can't be trusted to actually use entropy in the first place.
22:43 mircea_popescu thestringpuller as in feed /dev/random directly from it yes
22:45 thestringpuller "RAND_poll seeds the random number generator using a system-specific entropy source, which is /dev/urandom on UNIX-like operating systems" << so openssl default is PRNG??? RE: "The urandom device may lack sufficient entropy for your needs, and you might want to reseed it immediately from /dev/random. On Unix and other operating systems that provide the block device, you can use RAND_load_file to load directly from /dev/random."
22:45 mircea_popescu no "seeds".
22:46 mircea_popescu "random number generators" to be taken out and shot.
22:49 asciilifeform in other softwaresucks, i applied all of the optimizations folx have written to me about re phuctor. still ~same slow.
22:49 mircea_popescu might not be software's fault
22:49 asciilifeform (despite postgres being permitted to eat massive qty of ram)
22:51 asciilifeform sql dbtron is , i suspect, intrinsically unusable for this application
22:51 mircea_popescu possibly.
22:51 asciilifeform ( just as it is for, e.g., bitcoin )
22:51 mircea_popescu in fairness it's a bit like using car for haulage. use train neh.
22:52 mircea_popescu "no i'll optimize my truck". eh...
22:53 asciilifeform it may be the most overloaded trabant on planet3
22:54 asciilifeform (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
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22:54 mircea_popescu kinda what they're for.
22:57 asciilifeform and again i went 'surely there MUST be a knob to permit-FUCKYOU-UNBLOCKEDALWAYS-READS... i must've missed it' but nope.
22:57 asciilifeform walked the docs. nuffin.
22:57 mircea_popescu nuts.
~ 20 minutes ~
23:17 thestringpuller !~later tell danielpbarron: https://dpaste.de/eWi5/raw
23:17 jhvh1 thestringpuller: The operation succeeded.
23:18 mod6 asciilifeform: anything catching your eye in the performance statistics?
23:18 mod6 or explain plans?
23:18 asciilifeform mod6: just the same old idiocy with 10-40sec per page load.
23:18 mod6 (im much more familiar with mysql's perf schema, not really with psql, but... I find these things very helpful on a regular basis.)
23:21 mod6 so, UIs are usually victims, ofc. and the bottleneck is in the database. might be worth your time to see what your explain plans look like (are we doing a lot of table scans?), what do your lock counts look like? are we doing lots of long runing queries that return no rows? etc.
23:22 asciilifeform mod6: well, every single new key submission is from 1 to a dozen no-result queries
23:29 mod6 it would be interesting to see, how often inserts are happening for new key submissions versus, say, something that would facilitate a regular ui page load.
23:29 asciilifeform mod6: they happen constantly
23:29 asciilifeform because the Framedragger data set is pumped in 24/7.
23:30 mod6 aha.
23:30 asciilifeform incidentally i measured the thing in between Framedragger parcels
23:30 asciilifeform still slow.
23:30 asciilifeform the db is intrinsic bottleneck.
23:32 mod6 are you doing row-level locking?
23:32 asciilifeform i have nfi what that means
23:32 mod6 (my guess here, is that you're inserting heavily on the same table as you are trying to read from)
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23:33 asciilifeform well noshit
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23:33 mod6 and if you're doing (what might be default in pgsql) some sort of full table locking on inserts, then that'd be something to look at.
23:34 asciilifeform we had a thread, where mircea_popescu suggested inserting in massive batches. i will eventually implement this. but i find it offputting that EVEN THEN the IDIOTIC db will prevent me from reading !!!
23:34 asciilifeform reading AT MOTHERFUCKING DISK SPEED as it OUGHT TO READ
23:34 asciilifeform when told omfg.
23:35 asciilifeform dbism stinks.
23:35 thestringpuller asciilifeform: is there a guide on making this fabled kernel module for fuckgoats?
23:35 mod6 there is a lot of configuration/tuning involved. they're picky. :/
23:35 asciilifeform thestringpuller: no, and there is also not a ready guide on self-appendectomy
23:36 asciilifeform mod6: i sat for whole day with the tuning. worthless.
23:36 asciilifeform the ONE THING I ASKED FOR is not in the tunings.
23:36 asciilifeform 'because it would be wrong' or sumthing.
23:37 mod6 fair enough.
23:38 thestringpuller asciilifeform: :( learning cliff larger than dwarf fortress. no hints? tips and tricks?
23:39 asciilifeform thestringpuller: if you haven't spent last 20yrs programming, this chore isn't for you, sadly
23:44 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6661
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