Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-11-30 | 2017-12-02 → ↓
10:24 mod6 mornin'
10:24 asciilifeform heya mod6
10:25 mod6 o7
~ 59 minutes ~
11:24 BingoBoingo 07
~ 54 minutes ~
12:19 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ << Trilema - When did America end ?
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~ 25 minutes ~
12:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform awww lol y teh haet! dude's trying.
12:46 * mircea_popescu was even gonna reply to his reply, then noticed the google thing and recalled why he hasn't been commenting, something /me was vaguely wondering about
12:54 mircea_popescu aaand in other news, i just managed to link TWO DOZEN trilema articles from this latest one. i think that takes the cake.
12:57 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 1: Genesis.
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13:05 asciilifeform ohai mircea_popescu !
13:05 mats ugh, at a conf where a fed is pimping ‘trusona’, some biometric nonsense, and telling folks to shitcan passwords
13:05 mats no mention of rsa
13:05 mats not sexy
13:07 asciilifeform mats: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-19#883672 and elsewhere.
13:07 a111 Logged on 2014-10-19 18:39 asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: biometrics is, imho, the only one proposed so far that has explanatory power for the fact that idiotically lame, e.g., fingerprint readers, nevertheless are happily deployed en masse by usg
13:08 mircea_popescu hola
13:08 mircea_popescu mats hey, usg's been trying to shitcan the whole it security thing since day one.
13:08 mats admitting to the worthlessness of fingerprints would result in twenty year judicial backlog of reviews
13:09 asciilifeform 100+ yrs.
13:09 asciilifeform and 1e8 accused folx who are no longer half as intimidated into confession.
13:09 asciilifeform Would Be Wrong (tm)(r)
13:09 mircea_popescu there is no manner available currently of runing physical-space law&order without the fingerprint construct.
13:11 asciilifeform mod6, diana_coman , trinque , ben_vulpes , et al : lemme know if you were able to follow the ffa tutorial ch1.
13:11 asciilifeform and got the expected result.
13:11 * diana_coman goes to read
13:11 mircea_popescu moreover, if you took a year's worth of court practice of your choice, listed all the inferences made in a sort of mega-AST and then sorted this list by tenuousness measured how you will, the fingerprint construct wouldn't make any sort of top.
13:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: only because 'religious precept' and nobody even entertains the idea of a serious attack.
13:12 mircea_popescu all society works like this.
13:12 asciilifeform noshit.
13:12 mircea_popescu cannibalism, also "only because... and nobody entertains..."
13:12 asciilifeform 'waddayamean no witches'
13:12 mircea_popescu marrying dudes, fucking children, whatever matter of conventional behaviour is a convention.
~ 20 minutes ~
13:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1744952 << mega-piece btw
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13:33 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 17:19 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ << Trilema - When did America end ?
13:33 * asciilifeform takes off hat.
13:35 mircea_popescu dja like ?
13:36 asciilifeform 'I do believe it's better this way. She was bitterly sad every day of the last years' reminds asciilifeform of his (younger) grandfather, who narrowly missed the '90s
13:37 mircea_popescu kinda not so enamoured with the shoemeister ?
13:37 mircea_popescu (i find it amusing how all the later day soviet saints have some shoe reference readily accessible to be retrieved by)
13:37 mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6, diana_coman , trinque , ben_vulpes , et al : lemme know if you were able to follow the ffa tutorial ch1. <+asciilifeform> and got the expected result. << will take a look for sure.
13:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which shoemeister
13:38 mircea_popescu you recall, guy was at the un, took shoe off banged table.
13:38 asciilifeform that'd be hrusch
13:38 asciilifeform not the least bit '90s
13:38 mircea_popescu well yes. i took narrowly missing the 90s to mean he lived last days during khruschev's tenure
13:38 asciilifeform mno, died '91.
13:38 mircea_popescu a
13:39 asciilifeform hrusch 'retired' in '64
13:39 mircea_popescu o shit, you're right.
13:39 asciilifeform but no, not fan of 'the marked man'
13:39 mircea_popescu i had this brejnev-khruschev thing in my head.
13:40 asciilifeform ( gorby often 'меченый' in folk parlance , from the birthmark )
~ 21 minutes ~
14:02 asciilifeform !~later tell phf can haz ffa-genesis and subsequent patches inserted into your spiffy patch viewer btcbase.org/patches ??
14:02 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
14:07 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/tqtkm/ << Trilema - TQTKM
~ 21 minutes ~
14:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/vvwce/?raw=true
14:39 phf asciilifeform: si, also i'll look for the ada source, pretty sure i have it
14:39 asciilifeform phf: new one
14:39 asciilifeform phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1744956
14:39 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 17:57 deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 1: Genesis.
14:40 * phf nods
14:40 asciilifeform phf: i 'pedagogized' it, will be a series of vpatches.
14:40 phf i've been following the log
14:40 asciilifeform aite
14:41 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
14:41 phf though a bit of shame that annotation narrative is lost in vpatch
14:42 phf i also saw your romanian dictionary vpatch, but i'm keeping it out for now, because at 2mb or whatever it is, it's putting some stress on gc
~ 34 minutes ~
15:17 mircea_popescu oh, is size a consideration in that sense ?
15:26 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
15:26 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10597.63, vol: 17290.56679003 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10592.0, vol: 87963.98571419 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10660.0, vol: 4760.24698717 | Volume-weighted last average: 10595.8271459
15:27 diana_coman aaand gprbuild 2011-4 apparently is strictly married with gnat4.6; gah
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15:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bSyas/?raw=true
15:33 mircea_popescu !!pay hanbot 5
15:33 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/W6zcF/?raw=true
15:35 mircea_popescu !~later tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gNYJr/?raw=true
15:35 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
15:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: got it!!
15:35 asciilifeform will answer last numeric q in gpggram in a bit , hands full atm
15:37 phf mircea_popescu: it shouldn't be really, i just need to tune it
15:37 mircea_popescu !!pay asciilifeform 0.26916256
15:37 mircea_popescu phf aok
15:37 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XQWRj/?raw=true
15:38 phf but it does do a lot of tedious manipulation of lists of lines, so at >n lines it starts generating a lot of garbage
15:38 trinque mircea_popescu: looks like I have some deposits to credit. one sec. your hanbot one did not go through.
15:38 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: prepping for travel, will probably review on the plane
15:38 mircea_popescu o.O
15:40 phf asciilifeform: i added your ffa, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=ffa
15:40 phf colorizer is missing ada support, so i'm slowly hacking in the highlighter http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb comments and strings so far. i'm going to add keywords now and then leave it be
15:41 mircea_popescu trinque while at it, can there be an acct history to check on this side ? or what's iyo the ideal approach here
15:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pantsuit << phf's spiffy histogram rendering the birth of a notion.
15:42 trinque that's coming, full transaction history
15:42 mircea_popescu cool.
15:42 phf nice
15:42 asciilifeform phf: colour is a luxury . for so long as it knows that comments begin with --
15:43 asciilifeform then a-ok
15:43 phf yeah, it does at this point
15:43 phf i've had color disabled in my editors for years now, though some color like comments and string sequences is somewhat handy
15:44 mircea_popescu !!balance
15:44 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8ZDg9/?raw=true
15:46 trinque mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pJhlc/?raw=true
15:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis << neato phf !!
15:50 asciilifeform in the next chapter i will link to this.
15:51 mircea_popescu trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hNK0H/?raw=true
15:52 mircea_popescu in other news, this footlong plastic calzador i vbought at flexi (local shoe store) is one hell of a buttpaddle.
15:52 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb << coad loox perfectly ok, phf
15:53 mircea_popescu https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/UTB8_GvwX_zIXKJkSafVq6yWgXXaL/BSAID-1-Unids-Calidad-Extra-Largo-Calzador-18-5-pulgadas-font-b-Flexible-b-font-Easy.jpg << item.
15:53 mircea_popescu phf is it double-wide intentionally ?
15:54 phf mircea_popescu: nope, it's a styling bug, which needs to be fixed, but i've been having hard time with it last time i tackled it (but i don't remember what was the issue, something related to tables and <pre>s)
15:55 asciilifeform waitasec wat's doublewide
15:55 mircea_popescu ah k
15:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform annotation style printouts (every line is followed by an empty line)
15:55 asciilifeform hm not seeing this here
15:56 phf asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/doublewide.png
15:56 mircea_popescu basically fits half as much on your screen, but leaves plenty of room for writing in things on paper.
15:56 asciilifeform yea just a few sec ago finally saw, it shows up on lynx
15:56 mircea_popescu it does.
16:00 asciilifeform oh hey phf , colours!!
16:00 phf asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb ok i've thrown in reserved words
16:00 asciilifeform pretty great.
16:00 mircea_popescu lol he was live-reloading it
16:00 * asciilifeform loaded a pg and saw NIL NIL NIL and scratched head
16:00 phf :>
16:01 phf i can do other useful features, like
16:01 mircea_popescu alf's browser (emacs) includes live-browsing extension, sends 4k px wide 100fps film of the page to his tape ticker.
16:01 mircea_popescu alf reviews nightly.
16:01 phf http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb
16:02 mircea_popescu cocks useful routine.
16:02 phf makes code more readable
16:02 mod6 where are the balls?
16:02 mircea_popescu i guess there should be a product COKCS
16:02 asciilifeform lol
16:03 asciilifeform COCKS : COCKS(COCKS .. COCKS) := (COCKS#COCKS#, COCKS COCKS COCKS); << win
16:03 mircea_popescu reminds me of that tarantino monologue
16:03 mircea_popescu where he explains what madona means by "like a virgin"
16:03 mod6 dick dick dick dick dick dick
16:03 phf mod6: i've added the feature you requested
16:04 mircea_popescu this is much improved now.
16:04 asciilifeform BALLS COCKS COCKS COCKS .. COCKS(COCKS'BALLS - BALLS) BALLS << ahahahahha
16:04 mircea_popescu finite fucking arithmia.
16:04 mod6 phf: lol
16:05 asciilifeform finitely fattening fisarmonica.
16:06 mircea_popescu i have this impression i was doing something but i can't remember what it was now.
16:07 mircea_popescu o right i was reading alf's article.
16:07 phf for future log readers http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb?cocks=true (only works in ada though, because)
16:07 mircea_popescu cock amnesia.
16:07 asciilifeform phf: spiffy
16:07 mircea_popescu phf future log readers can just search archive!
16:09 shinohai I feel happy to be a part of such a grand institution that goes out of the way to be so all-inclusive in the logs.
16:11 phf well, it's also only proper for a long running lisp system to have a *cocks-and-balls* global variable somewhere that subtly affects the behavior
16:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform reading this backbreaker of an article i must say i r impresst. exactly what ffa needed, too.
16:12 mircea_popescu phf there is that.
16:12 mircea_popescu "fits in head".
16:12 shinohai head of cock precisely
16:13 mircea_popescu shinohai wanna put his thing in r/code or w/e it is, r/crypto, r/weRgrownupsnao ?
16:14 mircea_popescu i don't think the previous runaround was enough punishment for his sins.
16:14 mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 i mean
16:14 mircea_popescu hey asciilifeform ! mp-wp has nice names for urls!
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16:17 mod6 ben_vulpes: you may want to update the link to my V in this blog post (http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system) as it's old. This is the latest: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-March/000260.html
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16:21 mod6 asciilifeform: you may want to update the link to my V in this blog post (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545) as it's old. This is the latest (from the foundation site): http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz (and corresponding sig file): http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz.mod6.sig
16:21 mod6 If you to gentlemen would rather not update your blogs, please let me know and I'll post a comment at the bottom of each.
16:21 mod6 s/to/two
16:24 mod6 lol, asciilifeform ignore that. i already put a comment on your blog.
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16:24 ben_vulpes go ahead and leave a comment, mod6
16:25 mod6 yup, will leave the same comment on yours, Sir. Thanks.
16:26 mircea_popescu you know it's not a great idea to leave live links to dead urls.
16:26 * mircea_popescu recently went through his comment section, nulled out dead links. (you'd be surprised what survival rate of commenters pages is like)
16:27 mircea_popescu i looked at thousands of once-there, now deceased sites. pretty depressing as an incidental, facebook made people measurably dumber.
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16:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745104 << my heathen one also has'em, but by the time i found out, it was too late, there is no built-in have-it-both-ways
16:27 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 21:14 mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform ! mp-wp has nice names for urls!
16:27 mircea_popescu and in other wowz, alf's 2010 material is pretty fucking epic too! http://www.loper-os.org/?p=132 specifically.
16:27 asciilifeform ( and i have hardlinks everywhere, not only in own www, which'd be fixable, but all over heathendom )
16:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform mine has it both ways.
16:28 asciilifeform neato, i gotta crib it at some point.
16:28 asciilifeform lotta goodstuff in mp's wp.
16:28 mod6 ben_vulpes: is there a comment approval process? I submitted the comment.
16:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745109 << waitasec mod6 where was this
16:29 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 21:24 mod6: lol, asciilifeform ignore that. i already put a comment on your blog.
16:30 mod6 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 -- take a look at the last comment at the bottom. apparently on may 10th of this year.
16:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745114 << i deleted a few folx from my links bar earlier this yr, who turned out to have... actually died
16:30 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 21:27 mircea_popescu: i looked at thousands of once-there, now deceased sites. pretty depressing as an incidental, facebook made people measurably dumber.
16:30 asciilifeform was also depressing.
16:30 asciilifeform mod6: aa ok
16:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform eg http://trilema.com/?p=76183
16:31 asciilifeform neato. possibly only works if you had it going from the beginning ? ( or not. i'll check it out )
16:31 mircea_popescu nobody ever has anything from the beginning.
16:31 mircea_popescu (and it also very usefully 302s, at that)
16:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu et al : lemme know if obvious typos, gaps, or thing dunbuild, etc.
16:34 mircea_popescu i am reading. so far, this is a major achievement, and quite fundamental at that.
16:34 mod6 I read the entire thing so far, and it looks great. I have droped the vpatch and sig into my V and pressed it out, which also worked great.
16:34 asciilifeform i sawed it into almost pathologically small jigsaw pieces. e.g. next episode concerns e.g. shifting.
16:34 mircea_popescu everything about it is good right and proper.
16:34 asciilifeform yay
16:34 mircea_popescu you are aware there exists no usable "learn to compute" item ANYWHERE ?
16:34 mod6 I don't have an ada at my disposal atm. So will do an entire test of the thing tonight and post results as I have them (probably on my site).
16:35 mircea_popescu precisely because universities "became open" and "put online" their inept webcasts etc.
16:35 asciilifeform ( this is something like 3-4 yrs of sweat of asciilifeform , depending on from where we count, dates to original ctronic cardanolib )
16:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it will conveniently double as many things. i will add it to the topic link later today.
16:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: quite aware. the 1 src that turned out to be reliable reference, was knuth (i.e. a 1960s work)
16:37 ben_vulpes mod6: released
16:37 phf slightly better rendering (will work on padding widths sometime later) http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb
16:38 asciilifeform oh hey looxgreat on lynx and on guitron
16:38 phf also there's a somewhat useful, though non-standard css property "user-select" that lets you select only the code part of the page
16:38 asciilifeform this is quite spiffy and shithub et al dun have it
16:39 mircea_popescu this apple piece makes for fabulous companion reading.
16:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that "older comments" thing is abominable.
16:39 asciilifeform ohyea ancient lulzpiece , iirc was in the l0gz at some point
16:39 mircea_popescu proper blog can load 1k comments.
16:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun think i ever got 1k comments, or near
16:40 asciilifeform but yes
16:40 mircea_popescu so then why "older comments" link bs
16:40 asciilifeform pretty much stock wp, almost exactly as it was in the bush presidency
16:40 mircea_popescu yes well it sucks.
16:41 mod6 <+ben_vulpes> mod6: released << awesome thanks!
16:41 mircea_popescu his pragma list is longer than my penis
16:42 asciilifeform what it does is snippy-snippycut large chunks of the language.
16:43 asciilifeform forbids oop, uniturdism, threads and asynchrony of any form, constructs that require complex runtime support, 'unprincipled exceptions' (chiefly c-style type-casts), pointers (yes), and a few others
16:44 asciilifeform ... the heap. and in fact any form of allocation other than stackframe
16:45 asciilifeform floatingpoint. the 'catching' of exceptions. etc.
16:45 asciilifeform the 2 things i did not forbid (though wanted to) were recursion (can't... karatsuba) and implicit-loops (can't... array assignments)
16:46 mircea_popescu check out teh proof. yes.
16:47 trinque heads up to all, I'll be traveling from about 2.5hrs from now until sunday night.
16:47 trinque pls to send all withdrawal requests in now or wait til sun
16:48 asciilifeform happy travels, trinque
16:48 mircea_popescu enjoy.
16:48 trinque ty
16:49 trinque mega congrats to asciilifeform on his first ffa post, will read soon.
16:49 asciilifeform trinque: it is largely old material, but carefully portioned and commented.
16:49 mircea_popescu perfect airflight fodder heh
~ 23 minutes ~
17:13 * asciilifeform fixed a handful of typos
17:25 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> dja like ? << very nice post, indeed.
17:36 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ << updated. including delicious V<sup>v</sup> itam.
17:36 mircea_popescu taking comments.\
17:37 asciilifeform ohheyheyheylbj!
17:39 mod6 ah cool
17:39 * mod6 looks
17:40 mod6 neato
17:42 mircea_popescu in other news nobody cares about, usg.state's main asset in romania looks well headed to jail. kovesi (special "anti-corruption prosecutor") lied about meeting various politicians (as part of usg embassy-directed http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743878 scandal).
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17:42 a111 Logged on 2017-11-28 19:30 mircea_popescu: "don't vote for x, he not only would confiscate our constanta base BUT IS VERY CORRUPT" sorta bs.
17:43 asciilifeform betcha he'll turn up in miamistan soon then.
17:43 mircea_popescu she.
17:43 mircea_popescu all the rices are shes.
17:43 asciilifeform interesting; had nfi.
17:44 * asciilifeform recalls the juice she-prosecutor from old thread...
17:44 asciilifeform *juicy
17:44 mircea_popescu which one was that ?
17:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1725111
17:44 a111 Logged on 2017-10-13 18:55 asciilifeform: http://p.ocdn.ee/4/i/2015/11/12/tfkyk4ty.t3l.jpg << in other mega-chix
17:45 mircea_popescu lol
17:45 mod6 yikes
17:45 mircea_popescu congenital retards ftw
17:45 asciilifeform supposedly was from pregnancy or somehow.
17:46 asciilifeform (i.e. temporary)
17:47 mircea_popescu ic
17:49 asciilifeform but meanwhile, in heathendom, https://archive.is/Oyq47 >> bitpay 'We are now beginning the work to require Payment Protocol wallet payments for all BitPay invoices.' << i had nfi this mikehearnism still lived on, even in zombieform
17:50 mircea_popescu ahaha
17:50 asciilifeform the one where hearbleed was to be merged in, that one.
17:50 asciilifeform *heart
17:50 mircea_popescu what is it even ?
17:50 asciilifeform prbism where you gotta tcp to somebody's box to pay him, or something of the kind
17:51 asciilifeform 'When a Payment Protocol wallet interacts with a Payment Protocol URL, it creates an SSL-secured connection to the true owner of the receiving bitcoin address (in this case, BitPay).' etc
17:51 asciilifeform sslism.
17:51 mircea_popescu so what, they'll pretend they didn't get paid with tx in the blockchgain ?
17:51 asciilifeform the excuse being 'We can also analyze transactions to make sure an adequate bitcoin miner fee is included. If the fee isn't sufficient to allow the transaction to confirm on the bitcoin network on time, BitPay can return a helpful message back to the wallet to let the user know. Mistaken payments will never reach the Bitcoin network.'
17:51 mircea_popescu seems unlikely, they;'re marginal as it is.
17:52 asciilifeform it's a resurrection of circa-2014 embraceandextendism -- 'let's impose prbtronic sslistic payment-via-tcp, and at the same time spam some moar spamola, make blox less breathable'
17:53 asciilifeform 'If you are using the BitPay, Copay, Mycelium, or Electrum wallets for your bitcoin payments, nothing will change. These true bitcoin wallets all already "speak" Payment Protocol. If you are using a non-Payment Protocol wallet or service to pay BitPay invoices, you will need to move your spending bitcoin to a wallet or service which can support Payment Protocol. We strongly recommend that you use a true bitcoin wallet for spending to
17:53 asciilifeform avoid delayed transactions, but you will be able to use any service compatible with Payment Protocol.'
17:54 asciilifeform i.e. all of the major heathen fronts, nominally on board.
17:55 asciilifeform 'whaddayeamean you don't want ssl in the loop, and put it all through nsa cables, terrorist.'
17:55 mircea_popescu um. so literally, they say pay x to y, you do, they go "lalala" ?
17:55 mircea_popescu this'd be pretty lulzy.
17:56 asciilifeform i suppose it will be propped up with 'hey it was in shitoshi 1.0, so He Meant This To Be' crapolade.
17:56 asciilifeform ( iirc some variant of this idiocy was in fact present in 0.3 )
17:56 mircea_popescu lets get teh popcorns then.
17:57 mircea_popescu i suppose it's better to "sacrifice" self on the noble altar of high socialist ideals than to simply admit that can't make money and can't continue supporting losses.
17:57 asciilifeform dunno that bitpay et al ever had the intention of making profit.
17:57 asciilifeform it's a tentacle.
17:58 mircea_popescu started as a for profit, for sure.
18:00 asciilifeform 'we recommend that wallets take an additional step and not broadcast payments rejected via the Bitcoin Payment Protocol' didjaknow
18:01 mircea_popescu hurr ?
18:01 mircea_popescu ah so the idea basically is to tell the inexistent miner cartel not to mine txns they don't want ?
18:01 asciilifeform aaha
18:01 mircea_popescu hey, soft forks upon soft forks, why the hell not.
18:04 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, new car theft method : drink a bottle of coca-cola, screw the tap back on, stick it in between wheel and chassis on parked car, wait for owner to get in and try to leave. the bottle will sound, the muppet will get out of the car to see, at which point you can just leave with it.
18:04 asciilifeform 'Customers with mistaken payments only receive partial refunds of the BTC they sent because of miner fee costs. One customer of a BitPay merchant recently spent 0.003853 BTC on a payment which was mistakenly underpaid by a small amount. They were only able to receive a refund of 0.002247 BTC. This is not the experience we want bitcoin users to have.' << 'use our gox or Lose It All!111' etc
18:05 asciilifeform lol who gets out and leaves key ?!
18:05 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> ( iirc some variant of this idiocy was in fact present in 0.3 ) << The one they use now did not exist till 0.9
18:05 asciilifeform or is idea that you whack'im over the head
18:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform from the perspective of "we're trying to survive mp" it is perfectly understandable. miner fees per tx are rapidly growing to a size comparable to the "walmart one item cost", which is what bitpay & all are willy-nilly married to.
18:05 mircea_popescu they wanted smaller fees for a reason.
18:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform 90% of women and 50% of men.
18:05 asciilifeform wanted small fees -- shouldn't have 'stress tested'
18:05 mircea_popescu toolate.jpg
18:06 mircea_popescu this is how the empire fails, takes local optimums.
18:07 asciilifeform for some reason ( and from both threads, oddly ) asciilifeform recalls the classic monkey trap, with the coconut
18:16 TomServo 3
18:16 asciilifeform ohai TomServo
18:16 asciilifeform 3 of what ?
18:18 mircea_popescu and since we're doing ro lulz, http://sov.ro/2017/11/21/capitolul-59-imi-veti-plati-4-miliarde-de-euro/ ( http://trilema.com/2010/ticalosul-si-libertatea/ rewriting http://trilema.com/2010/in-opera-sa-ne-masuram/ forgetting, of course, the "i'm just re-writing mp poorly years later" coda)
18:18 asciilifeform lol sov.ro
18:18 asciilifeform is it meant to evoke sovroms ?
18:19 mircea_popescu guy was a major... well, like bill gates, or khodorovsky, however you call the faux business men produced by governments. except in ro, so he's talking 1e7 rather than 1e10
↖
18:19 diana_coman "Note that endianness is irrelevant, here and elsewhere in FFA" <- FINALLY! esp given my recent keccak-induced headaches on the topic, I am delighted to read this; will dig deeper into ffa ch1 over the weekend
18:19 asciilifeform 'O țară de talia României nu are cum supraviețui în afara uni bloc economic' << really ?? really?
18:19 asciilifeform and best kr ?
18:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform initialism, sorin ovidiu vintu
18:20 asciilifeform aaa
18:20 asciilifeform diana_coman: the trick to endian-agnostic mechanisms is to never byte-address. at all.
18:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he has a point though. you need someone as doggedly determined as ceausescu to keep the thing afloat. economic blocs are a reality for what, 50 years now ? euro "common market" was not particularily DESIRED.
18:21 mircea_popescu just unavoidable.
18:21 asciilifeform diana_coman: observe that the one place where we give any shit at all re octets, is the printer, and there we simply shift Byteness*2 times.
18:21 diana_coman ofc; but idiotic keccac "reference" implementation goes about reading *bytes* although spec clearly talks of bits and at most of z-dimension long array of bytes and as a consequence madness necessarily ensues
18:22 diana_coman as I said: my recent headaches on the topic made this absolutely pop out to me
18:22 asciilifeform diana_coman: fortunately ffa is an arithmetron not an academitard-designed hashtron, and doesn't ever need to care about bytes, worx in units of machineword.
18:22 diana_coman array of bits* there
18:23 asciilifeform i'd sit down and do a proper incarnation of keccak, diana_coman , but i have maybe half a free hand and 40 hands worth of what to do..
18:24 asciilifeform incl. unspeakable saecular horrors
18:24 diana_coman asciilifeform, I sorted out some ada implementation and will post it; atm the struggle is more to figure out the "test vectors" for full sponge because of all this madness
18:24 asciilifeform yea afaik nobody ever made a proper one
18:27 TomServo asciilifeform: 3 of what ? << 3 reasons to not leave myself voiced while I'm clumsily reading scrollback, I suppose.
18:27 asciilifeform lol
18:28 asciilifeform TomServo: tried ffa ch1 tutorial yet ?
18:28 mircea_popescu lol this guy
18:28 TomServo I can barely fit a bite in my mouth.
18:33 TomServo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726202 << They did actually. 1998 'Gia', with Angelina Jolie, if you count HBO movies.
18:33 a111 Logged on 2017-10-18 17:12 mircea_popescu: and speaking of aids-en : isn't it a pity nobody's yet made a film out of gia carangi's life ? that chick was ACTUALLY a model, in the most proper of senses.
18:39 asciilifeform meanwhile in asciilifeform's spam collector, ' Start live in Germany in only 15 days. In 2 months you will receive the Residence Permits. '
18:40 * asciilifeform not previously seen this flavour.
18:40 phf edi weitz nuked all his lisp stuff, with a redirect to shithub. naturally if you want to look for documentation you have to go to ???
18:40 asciilifeform uggh
18:40 asciilifeform when did this happen phf
18:40 phf eg http://weitz.de/drakma/
18:41 phf must've been couple of days
18:41 asciilifeform sad.
18:41 ben_vulpes why would an ancient lisp hacker give two shits re what the kids are doing?
18:42 phf note that the redirect says "~most~ of the common lisp stuff is now on shithub"
18:42 phf because for example his lispworks extension hacks are nowhere but archive.org at this point
18:42 asciilifeform i would have guessed 'starved, lost server' but ~something~ is still hosting that pg
18:43 phf i believe the only correct solution at this point are terabyte backup drives with everything you ever touch, i suppose that's what asciilifeform's been doing for a while now
18:43 asciilifeform aha.
18:44 asciilifeform fortunately cheap nao.
18:44 phf time isn't though
18:44 asciilifeform troo
18:44 phf well, scratch that, i'm just ranting. once you have the setup, it's a pretty smooth operation i suppose. i just don't want to bother with the whole backing up the internet thing
↖
18:45 phf but that's in the "i just want to" territory, so tough.
18:49 mircea_popescu TomServo i count that like i count microsoft windows offering. it's the anti-item. gia is all about fucking, not all about being a dork.
18:49 asciilifeform meanwhile the critics speak : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18374
18:49 TomServo mircea_popescu: That's about what I figured, but in case you were unaware.
18:49 mircea_popescu i saw it, it offended me.
18:50 asciilifeform phf: it may interest you to know that i dun have any fancy setup, beyond e.g. wget -m -r ...
18:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think it's because computing class is postodctoral, whereas language class is highschool. so they learn the x:=a a:=b b:=x "trick" way before anyone even explains xor.
18:51 asciilifeform hm where does one learn to program, but not see xor.
18:51 asciilifeform even in american school first we did gate etc.
18:51 asciilifeform ( not speaking of uni, either, but of plain old plebeschool )
18:51 mircea_popescu very much a case of "are you trying to learn how to fly the f-14 on the basis of having been a f-4 pilot, or are you trying to learn how to fly the f-14 because you loved f-14 flight sim on crapple as a teen ?"
18:52 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: "numerical methods for mechanical engineers", for one
18:52 ben_vulpes also known as "enough matlab to make completely convincing fabrications"
18:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and f4 man luvved his father's crop duster
18:53 asciilifeform everyone starts somewhere.
18:53 mircea_popescu "double ugly flying anvil"
18:53 mircea_popescu "the triumph of thrust over fluid flow"
18:54 * asciilifeform softly sings canonical 'Мой Фантом, как пуля быстрый, в небе голубом и чистом, с ревом набирает высоту...'
18:54 mircea_popescu and, importantly, luftverteidingungsdiesel
18:54 asciilifeform ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_NOPpfJ0F4 << subj )
18:55 phf asciilifeform: i'm pretty sure i've not even seen xor mentioned at umd. i learned about it first and last at evening math school in moscow
18:55 mircea_popescu "it is better for your jet fighter to resemble a stove than a wafer".
18:55 asciilifeform phf: how didja avoid system architecture ( iirc #311 ) ?
18:55 asciilifeform or 'discretes' ( #250 ) ?
18:57 * mircea_popescu discovered xor while trying to make z80 gfx as a 7-8-9yo.
18:57 phf well, i was placed straight into 300 levels, but i recall 311 being fast and loose with actual teaching.
18:57 mircea_popescu (thing had programmable characters, you could define your own 8x8 bitfield glyph, anyone recall ?
18:57 mircea_popescu HAD UNICODE SUPPORT! CORRECTLY MADE!
18:57 asciilifeform what chars a particular z80tron had, depended on chipset eh
18:57 phf maybe they taught it, but seeing a boolean map really translate into understanding of how you apply dat shit to bit twiddling etc.
18:58 mircea_popescu also had direct-to-memory (via poke) chartable switching :D
18:58 phf /seeing/does seeing/
18:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: most cards on pc from ega up also let define 8x8 char
18:58 asciilifeform sorta how orcs were able to koi8 etc
18:58 mircea_popescu myeah.
18:59 asciilifeform even on c64 ( 1980s micro popular in the west ) it was pretty simple. was my 1st comp in usa, and i wrote a cyrillic thing, but useless ( what to read! )
18:59 phf mircea_popescu: actually that's probably more correct, i have vague memory of doing xor in pascal maybe to do leet vga graphixxx
18:59 mircea_popescu good soviet types in the book he wants to read.
18:59 asciilifeform lol
18:59 asciilifeform phf: certainly can't do e.g. spritegraphics without xor.
18:59 mircea_popescu phf pascal was huge letdown for me, either didn't have or i didn't know how to get to the direct memory diddle.
18:59 mircea_popescu borlandc much better.
19:00 asciilifeform i had the borland pascal
19:00 mircea_popescu me too.
19:00 asciilifeform and...
19:00 mircea_popescu 6.0 iirc
19:00 asciilifeform !# SWAG
19:00 asciilifeform !#s SWAG
19:00 a111 67 results for "SWAG", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=SWAG
19:00 asciilifeform ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615382 subj )
19:00 a111 Logged on 2017-02-18 22:24 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615371 << the nutrient alone is not enough to produce maggots. e.g., 'SWAG' archive ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-18#1241627 ) of pascal snippets existed, was first class . 0 maggotry.
19:01 mircea_popescu but anyway, the concept of "programming" in a sense other than direct memory write was something i had to deliberately learn against inclination. like mult table, about the same time. "wtf is this bs and why am i writing words"
19:01 asciilifeform phunphakt, ada was originally a contest ( in chet-era usa mil ) and 'green ada' , a iirc french entrant, won; was made by pascalists. ergo today's looks quite like pascal
19:01 phf (this is pretty apropos chuck moore links from few days ago)
19:01 asciilifeform ( with quite minor, in the big picture, differences )
19:01 mircea_popescu i recall that story ye.
19:03 asciilifeform the other interesting bit, niklaus wirth ( pascal ) afaik still alive. and even made own machine, chuck-moore-style, and os, 'oberon'
19:03 asciilifeform many interesting concepts therein.
19:03 mircea_popescu anyway, there's a fundamental divide between people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "basically large phone switchboard with robotic switchmaid" and people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "squee! apple drawing thing!"
19:03 mircea_popescu the latter i expect will be the "x switch" folk.
19:03 asciilifeform !~google wirth plea for lean software
19:03 jhvh1 asciilifeform: A plea for lean software - Computer: <https://cr.yp.to/bib/1995/wirth.pdf>; Niklaus Wirth : A Plea for Lean Software (1995) [pdf] | Hacker News: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item%3Fid%3D8301511>; Niklaus Wirth - A Plea for Lean Software .pdf - GitHub: <https://github.com/sysprv/demo-corporate-documentation-public/blob/master/Niklaus%2520Wirth%2520-%2520A%2520Plea%2520for%2520Lean%2520
19:04 asciilifeform http://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth << wirth.
19:04 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> anyway, there's a fundamental divide between people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "basically large phone switchboard with robotic switchmaid" and people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "squee! apple drawing thing!" << In sixth grade computer (Apple II) was introduced to class as drawing thing (turtle graphics)
19:04 mircea_popescu aha.
19:05 BingoBoingo 7th grade computer reintoduced (Mac Classic I) as "typewriter substitute"
19:05 BingoBoingo 9th grade computer (iMac G3) reintroduced again as "Internet lives here"
19:06 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: in so far as i can tell, having access to actual comp is not necessarily good for a kid
19:06 BingoBoingo So it is increasingly appearing
19:07 asciilifeform it isn't necessarily lethal; but not automagically great.
19:07 mircea_popescu just like everything elser.
19:07 BingoBoingo Major determiner likely WHO introduces
19:07 mircea_popescu nitric acid also not automagically great even if not necessarily lethal.
19:08 asciilifeform the uncrossable divide seems to be pre- vs post- reddit age.
19:09 mircea_popescu two major divides : a) post cunt-is-for-fucking late 80s what with the condoms, pills, disco scene end and b) pre internet-is-for-everyone 2005 or so
19:09 mircea_popescu the petri dish had exactly one generation's worth of leak.
19:09 asciilifeform some dour 'oldfag' might say '93
19:10 mircea_popescu nah, the damage wasn't really done even in 1999.
19:10 asciilifeform in '99 usenet was still functioning and reasonably readable, say.
19:10 asciilifeform asciilifeform -- was reading.
19:10 asciilifeform msdos was still bootable on readily-available iron. vga card -- programmable. etc
19:10 mircea_popescu pretty much everything, from usenet to "what will the chick you pick up via irc or from a game lan party say".
19:11 asciilifeform in '99 the net was still something that 'hm, i'ma turn on modem, dial, sync my newsreader, then it's yer turn, brother' etc
19:11 mircea_popescu i dunno if anyone remembers, BUT! there was a point in earth's history when what chick said was not automatically dumb.
19:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in usa that was prolly some time before wilson, so i never saw
19:12 mircea_popescu no wai. in 1999 if female stood up in say polynomial interpolation class, you didn't just check out.
19:12 asciilifeform yea but none did
19:12 mircea_popescu it happened!
19:12 * asciilifeform believes.
19:13 mircea_popescu in my topgun hs class we had a chick being chem first hand and another being either math or physics 2nd hand, whichever line was thin.
19:13 mircea_popescu this is respectable, 2 out of 7/8 or so people.
19:13 asciilifeform neato.
19:14 asciilifeform asciilifeform's elder brother's program-su-pdp-clone instructor, was a chick, reportedly
19:14 asciilifeform 1990-91 iirc
19:15 asciilifeform but in usa as mircea_popescu put it 'there COULD have been green beret, but then nope'
19:15 mircea_popescu pretty fucking sad.
19:15 asciilifeform verily.
19:15 mircea_popescu you know for a fact that in 3-400mn walkers there's at least a dozen or two chicks who could have done it.
19:15 mircea_popescu and well... nope. ACCESS DENIED.
19:16 mircea_popescu and the whole fucking point is SPECIFICALLY so that they can't accomplish anything and get fucked in exactly the way blacks got fucked via obamaing.
19:16 mircea_popescu misoginy turned up to the >9000.
19:16 asciilifeform so as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-30#1744823 aha
19:16 a111 Logged on 2017-11-30 18:58 asciilifeform: find new and new crops of fresh 'we owe everything we have to the great inca' nobodies ?
19:17 mircea_popescu scandalous.
19:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745291 << kinda what the whole archives lobbes and others been working on is all about
19:26 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 23:44 phf: well, scratch that, i'm just ranting. once you have the setup, it's a pretty smooth operation i suppose. i just don't want to bother with the whole backing up the internet thing
19:26 mircea_popescu "dump in chan, forget about it"
19:26 mircea_popescu yes, large, difficult, etc task. not however avoidable, in the end.
19:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it dun have infinite depth tho ( impractical )
19:26 mircea_popescu nothing infinite is ever practical, so this objection is moot.
19:26 asciilifeform not an objection to having an archivebot
19:27 asciilifeform but must point out that it does not magick away the problem of rot.
19:27 mircea_popescu (i guess this isn't obvious to anyone but me, but obviously once the item is in chan the very first next extension is "now let it take a list of urls in paste from user")
19:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform some kind of uci is the only possible solution to "superinformation highway" potholes.
19:28 asciilifeform ( recently asciilifeform found and of course locally mirrored some rando d00d's ftp with a few GB of bolixism. this is not imho properly a job for auto-archivebot, normally )
19:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, notable unsolvedproblem.
19:28 mircea_popescu i dunno how to evaluate yet if you're right.
19:29 mircea_popescu (in other news, #trilema fucking takes the cake in terms of error messages.)
19:29 asciilifeform hm?
19:29 mircea_popescu the above. "E1337 : i dunno how to evaluate if you're right".
19:30 asciilifeform aaa
19:30 * mircea_popescu now wants a computer LIKE THAT!
19:31 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1380083 << oblig
19:31 a111 Logged on 2016-01-21 19:50 asciilifeform: when you push it, the word правильно (CORRECT)
19:31 mircea_popescu lol
19:32 mircea_popescu amusingly, ru "correct" is moar like "legal" than anything.
19:32 mircea_popescu "regular" lessay.
19:32 asciilifeform no odder than engl word 'right'
19:33 mircea_popescu well... correct is from straight. so is right.
19:34 asciilifeform aaha
19:34 mircea_popescu not from legal. which would make the alien anthropologist suspect the russkis have the great inca, not the usskis.
19:37 asciilifeform they certainly had 'great inca', before columbus sailed.
19:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform btw, if you want another vignette : dan adamescu was this fellow, 2nd richest romanian (excluding mp, of course) in 2013. then the govt took its krysha back, his company magically was now bankrupt, by 2016 he was being sent to jail for supposedly trying to bribe the judgtes in a 1e8 civil case with 20k. early 2017 had died, of septicemia, for which he had been placed in medical coma. it all begun with a knee ope
19:37 mircea_popescu ration. guess what made it necessary.
19:38 asciilifeform lol kneecapped?
19:38 mircea_popescu the guy's son somehow managed to have teh ICSID tell the romanians to get fucked (they actually had an interpol "arrest warrant" out for the guy)
19:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well... prison life can be hard for a 68 yo whom teh russians particularly dun like. bonus points : his lawyer "suicided" self by jumping before train.
19:40 asciilifeform i dun get it, what was the ru aspect
19:41 mircea_popescu can't say i exactly get it either, but it wasn't teh usians so what exactly is lefty.
19:41 asciilifeform swedes!11
19:41 mircea_popescu i... guess.
19:41 mircea_popescu maybe it was the ukrs!!1
19:42 mircea_popescu it conceivably was a bit of personal bitterness over some ancient story about taping people in hotels. or any other thing.
19:43 asciilifeform could be just about anyone and anything, asciilifeform is wholly unequipped to say.
19:43 mircea_popescu myeah.
19:44 asciilifeform ( sometimes it is very obvious who-whom, when demonstrative and spectacular polonium tea etc.; but this is rare. )
~ 59 minutes ~
20:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: item XI in http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic refers to i suspect an unrenumbered X
20:45 asciilifeform ( or hm, maybe not )
~ 30 minutes ~
21:16 mod6 asciilifeform: my gprbuild threw some errors like "invalid restriction identifier "No_Implicit_Protected_Object_Allocations"" : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JKdvZ/?raw=true
↖ ↖
21:16 asciilifeform which gnat, mod6 !
21:16 asciilifeform nm it's in there
21:17 asciilifeform i tested on gnu's, but 2016
21:17 asciilifeform entirely possibly 2015 didn't have those knobs.
21:17 mod6 ah. maybe this one is too old. i'll work on that.
21:17 asciilifeform you can comment out the pertinent knobs, see if any other caltrops.
21:18 mod6 ok
21:18 asciilifeform ( prolly i oughta lose the last 2 at least, tasking is already off )
21:21 mod6 Ok, I commented out the four restrictions that it complained about then : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FaQpe/?raw=true
21:21 mod6 Looks good :]
21:22 asciilifeform yay
21:22 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
21:22 mod6 I'll try see about finding a new gnat laying around and try that.
~ 16 minutes ~
21:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform seems not ?
21:42 mircea_popescu meanwhile in other sharps, http://78.media.tumblr.com/20afd2aecb43d68df838503074670c0a/tumblr_n9h5pgBXMd1sj1qcfo1_500.gif
~ 49 minutes ~
22:31 mircea_popescu aaand in alt-ows, https://midatlanticua.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/mid-atalantic-ua-adopts-sector-3/
22:38 mod6 ah ya, st. paul
22:41 mircea_popescu aaand for amateur cryptanalysts, https://fthmb.tqn.com/POA6cGIggoug8OUSU5AFQr2WAsU=/2073x2625/filters:fill%28auto,1%29/Zimmermann_Telegram_as_Received_by_the_German_Ambassador_to_Mexico_-_NARA_-_302025-5827b8ca3df78c6f6a7c945d.jpg
~ 27 minutes ~
23:08 asciilifeform i get empty page
~ 35 minutes ~
23:44 lobbes phf aha nice easter egg with a specific search term in btcbase.org. I'll leave it unmentioned so others may have the joy of stumbling on it :)
23:48 phf lobbes: hehe, you probably ran into me testing a feature, but that's a good idea :)
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