Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-12-15 | 2017-12-17 → ↓
00:05 asciilifeform for some reason reminds me of the su prisoners who , legendarily , got 5, 6 school diplomas each, because kept signing up again and again, teacher is the only chix in the joint after all
00:12 mircea_popescu kek
~ 7 hours 5 minutes ~
07:17 RagnarDanneskjol mircea_popescu iangeker is here to interview. she's around for a little while longer today and then tomorrow after 2pm China Standard Time
~ 27 minutes ~
07:45 BingoBoingo !!up iangeker
07:45 deedbot iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 20 minutes ~
08:06 BingoBoingo !!Up iangeker
08:06 deedbot iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
08:06 BingoBoingo You are now voiced
08:06 BingoBoingo To talk in the channel, type and hit enter
08:06 iangeker it means I can send a message to the channel now?
08:06 iangeker thank you!
08:07 BingoBoingo Yes, generally it isn't polite to talk to strangers privately except to ask for a loan of voice
08:07 BingoBoingo iangeker: Introduce yourself
08:08 iangeker I am introduced to here by Shannon, I am suppose to have an interview with Mircea. So I am waiting for the interview.
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08:12 BingoBoingo iangeker: Ah, if he doesn't respond now he will be on later to read what you type.
08:12 BingoBoingo The channel has logs here http://btcbase.org/log/
08:13 BingoBoingo It probably would not hurt your cause here if you offered some information on your background while we await mircea_popescu
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08:13 BingoBoingo Go over the basics. Mandarin or Cantonese? Where are your from? Where are you now? What have you done with your life?
08:14 BingoBoingo !!Up esthlos
08:14 deedbot esthlos voiced for 30 minutes.
08:14 esthlos hello
08:15 BingoBoingo Como estas vos?
08:15 esthlos bien, e tu?
08:16 BingoBoingo Muy bien, porque en Uruguay.
08:17 esthlos sounds nicer than the -10C here
08:17 BingoBoingo Ah ~30 here atm
08:17 esthlos I've been trying to wrap my head around TMSR
08:18 esthlos my background is as a lisper and mathematician
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08:18 BingoBoingo esthlos: Well, what portions do you stub the toes on in your dark?
08:21 esthlos BingoBoingo: i'll put it this way
08:22 esthlos BingoBoingo: i know enough about computing to know that asciilifeform is right about the general idiocy
08:24 esthlos BingoBoingo: and my guess is that you guys view fiat currency like lispers view most programming
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08:24 BingoBoingo esthlos: So what that idiocy does to machines supposedly made to do math... Understand that same idoicy is pointed at far softer targets for great destruction.
08:24 BingoBoingo TMSR is not primarily a currency thing.
08:26 BingoBoingo TMSR is a self and world improvement society of fellows and fellas working to maximally empower the smart and maximally handicap the idiocy
08:27 BingoBoingo There's even a TMSR fiat currency which operates alongside Bitcoin here, see http://trilema.com/2017/the-ecu/
08:28 esthlos BingoBoingo: interesting
08:30 BingoBoingo Consider the problem where the pantsuit regime has declared flirting bad unless fat chicks do it.
08:30 esthlos BingoBoingo: i've been considering hacking around with eurola, its seems like a game which actually rewards intelligence
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08:30 esthlos unlike most, where beating the underlying game (through code) is woefully out of scope
08:30 BingoBoingo I've heard great things about it as well, but my work has sucked me down a different Republican rabbit hole.
08:31 BingoBoingo Anyways, the thing to do now is register a GPG key with deedbot, preferrably before you depart.
08:32 BingoBoingo That way when you return it is possible to know you are you.
08:32 esthlos alright
08:34 BingoBoingo There's also logs to read, 2013 is a good read.
08:34 esthlos i've been reading, but its hard to pull together a narrative
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08:35 esthlos so i've been blasting through the blogs of the 'lords'
08:36 BingoBoingo Ah, the general admission exercise is reading six months of logs. Sometimes this is interpreted as the most recent, others suppose there is a "most correct" six months.
08:36 esthlos !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/b1G73/?raw=true
08:36 deedbot EDB93AD2CAB28398010B46D025C71657FDA71DC2 registered as esthlos.
08:37 BingoBoingo !!up iangeker
08:37 deedbot iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
08:38 BingoBoingo iangeker: Consider leaving an introduction as suggested for when mircea_popescu wakes up http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752133
08:38 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:13 BingoBoingo: It probably would not hurt your cause here if you offered some information on your background while we await mircea_popescu
08:38 BingoBoingo !!rate esthlos 1 Fresh off the boat
08:38 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/peOnZ/?raw=true
08:38 esthlos BingoBoingo: thank you
08:39 BingoBoingo !!v 1143C33A5ED25279C6BF15EA1388574D1BD9306E39B26F85678CBCB12C12416C
08:39 deedbot BingoBoingo rated esthlos 1 << Fresh off the boat
08:39 BingoBoingo esthlos: You may now voice yourself
08:39 BingoBoingo !!down esthlos
08:42 BingoBoingo This is the part where you figure out the voicing
08:42 BingoBoingo !!help
08:42 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
08:49 BingoBoingo !!Up esthlos
08:49 deedbot esthlos voiced for 30 minutes.
08:49 esthlos well
08:49 esthlos i'm messaging deedbot
08:49 esthlos oh duh i have to decrypt the msg
08:54 esthlos nice system
08:55 esthlos BingoBoingo: i will start reading some logs. enjoy your sun and beautiful women
08:55 esthlos !!down
~ 2 hours 37 minutes ~
11:33 shinohai I need coffee, I'm sitting here listening to asciilifeform 's txt Romanian dictionary through espeak.
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~ 28 minutes ~
12:01 mircea_popescu !!up iangeker
12:01 deedbot iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
12:01 mircea_popescu hey there.
12:02 mircea_popescu hm i wonder what china standard time is in ticotime lessee
12:03 mircea_popescu 1 am now ; so 10 hrs behind. that's not even so terrible.
12:04 shinohai He said something about her returning @ 2am local time here to chat I believe?
12:04 mircea_popescu he said pm tho.
12:05 shinohai My bad 2pm
12:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752130 << aite, catch you tonight then.
12:09 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:08 iangeker: I am introduced to here by Shannon, I am suppose to have an interview with Mircea. So I am waiting for the interview.
12:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752144 << anything i could look at in either direction ?
12:10 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:18 esthlos: my background is as a lisper and mathematician
12:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752148 << this is actually quite apt.
12:10 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:24 esthlos: BingoBoingo: and my guess is that you guys view fiat currency like lispers view most programming
12:10 mircea_popescu hmm where'd he go.
12:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752155 << really, everything is specifically designed with the single goal in mind of rewarding intelligence, be it v, the wot, ANYTHING. in fact, if something didn't reward intelligence i'd very much like to hear about it, because that's the one and only cause for reform.
12:13 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:30 esthlos: BingoBoingo: i've been considering hacking around with eurola, its seems like a game which actually rewards intelligence
12:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752162 << this may be because cult rumours greatly exaggerated.
12:14 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:34 esthlos: i've been reading, but its hard to pull together a narrative
12:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752189 << i find it hard to picture anything but randomsoup coming from such a thing
12:21 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 16:33 shinohai: I need coffee, I'm sitting here listening to asciilifeform 's txt Romanian dictionary through espeak.
12:22 shinohai It was soup, therefore why I slapped myself to stop laughter, drank coffee, continued day.
12:24 asciilifeform shinohai: if yer doing ro , mircea_popescu and diana_coman posted some quite handy links to audio , in thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-24#1728247
12:24 a111 Logged on 2017-10-24 20:51 mircea_popescu: 100% chances of native speaking not having any fucking clue what you're saying
12:24 shinohai ty asciilifeform those would be handy.
12:26 asciilifeform afaik there is not a ro-outputting machine synth worth a broken penny
12:26 mircea_popescu pretty sure i heard some
12:27 asciilifeform would be quite handy, can haz link , if mircea_popescu or anyone else finds it
12:27 mircea_popescu but possibly rotting away under stacks of other female studies in $rando obscure uni
12:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752144 << how come n00bs never append 'and here are some words that i published on the subject' to this
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12:30 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 13:18 esthlos: my background is as a lisper and mathematician
12:32 asciilifeform oh hm loox like mircea_popescu already asked same q !
12:32 mircea_popescu they will.
12:32 * asciilifeform to tea, bbl
12:36 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
12:36 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 18740.52, vol: 9956.57952973 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 18638.0, vol: 44101.27374891 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 18774.8, vol: 2412.02276688 | Volume-weighted last average: 18661.9191821
12:37 mircea_popescu !!pay danielpbarron 0.00112981
12:37 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5gjuX/?raw=true
12:42 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752219 <- perhaps because other than here, nobody actually asks them to or indeed bothers to look at it if they do
12:42 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 17:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752144 << how come n00bs never append 'and here are some words that i published on the subject' to this
12:42 mircea_popescu ^
12:43 mircea_popescu the whole "reward intelligence", ie the positive republican value, is entirely unheard of in empire lands
12:43 mircea_popescu let ALONE the heresy of all heresies, unthinabler than incestouous-rape-while-vivisecting-right-of-life-chipmunk-dolphins-babyseals, which is ACTUALLY HANDICAP STUPIDITY, so dumbass gets LESS per unit than less dumbass ?!
12:44 mircea_popescu holy hell what.
12:44 mircea_popescu ~black~ seals, ie artical-american, i forgot to add.
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
14:06 asciilifeform meanwhile, in dept of entomology, https://archive.is/Mli5z << a dekulakization-flavoured phorqcoin , 'Active bitcoin wallets will receive UBTC at a rate of 1:1, and inactive wallet funds will go toward supporting other high quality blockchains or other projects in the ecosystem' . 'active' appears to mean 'moved in last month'. and, bonus, '30% ... ... will be used to support at least 10 other projects in the crypto-currency eco-syst
14:06 asciilifeform em' while '70% will be used as collateral, to back the issuance of digital currencies pegged to fiat currencies'
14:07 mircea_popescu high quality lol.
14:09 asciilifeform they also baked in some scheme whereby you have to, apparently, nuke yer btc to get their shitcoin
14:10 asciilifeform but asciilifeform can't muster the givingashit to investigate in detail.
14:11 asciilifeform meanwhile in world of cokemachine, https://archive.is/ooxkA >> new jersey , 'Louis Meza, 35, lured his pal into a minivan, where a gunman pointed a pistol at the victim and demanded his 24-word passphrase on Nov. 4, authorities said. The code was given to Meza, a cryptocurrency investor, and allowed him access to the victim's Ether wallet.'
14:13 mircea_popescu aaaahahaha
14:13 mircea_popescu ether huffing at a gunpoint. was it a daisy ?
14:14 asciilifeform a disney deathhose 9000, for all i know.
14:14 mircea_popescu pretty lulzy shit imo
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
15:24 PeterL so I was trying to follow the ffa series, started at loper-os, followed the link to v, ended up at http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000200.html and I am getting <title>404 Not Found</title> when I tried to download the links in 0x02, did I do something wrong or am I not looking at the most up to date v source or what?
15:25 asciilifeform PeterL: afaik current-day vtron, by mod6 , is the one at http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html
15:26 PeterL ah, yes, I see it now.
15:27 PeterL http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system was the page where I went to the ml with the dead links, ben_vulpes maybe that should be updated?
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15:39 asciilifeform i could've sworn there was a mod6 thread about this not long ago
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15:39 asciilifeform possibly ben_vulpes hadn't yet had time to update his www .
15:40 asciilifeform !~later tell ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752248
15:40 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 20:27 PeterL: http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system was the page where I went to the ml with the dead links, ben_vulpes maybe that should be updated?
15:40 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
~ 17 minutes ~
15:57 PeterL I tried to press the ffa with the mod6 v, and I am getting this error: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/30JHp/?raw=true
15:58 asciilifeform holyshit wat
15:58 asciilifeform PeterL: tar up whole thing for me ?
15:58 asciilifeform and post
15:58 asciilifeform patches, seals, wot, v.pl, all.
15:59 asciilifeform fwiw i tested with his vtron, and mine, prior to releasing each ch 1-3
16:00 asciilifeform oh lemme guess, are you on crapple box PeterL ?
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16:00 asciilifeform those don't have sha512sum utility
16:00 asciilifeform they have some other, heathen name for it, that escapes me presently
16:01 asciilifeform memo to all crapple victims : yer choices are 1) stop, cold turkey 2) learn the broken pieces and learn to work around, on yer own
16:01 PeterL umm, yes
16:01 asciilifeform PeterL: the null string output for 'Actual:' is telltale.
16:01 PeterL that's kinda what I was thinking might be the problem
16:02 PeterL because the file is where it is supposed to be
16:02 asciilifeform iirc the command on crapple is shasum -a 512 filegoeshere
16:02 asciilifeform rather than sha512sum as in human boxes.
16:02 PeterL aha, that works
16:06 PeterL bah, my kids are making a mess, I will have to continue this later
~ 15 minutes ~
16:21 ben_vulpes and i am to update my blog every time someone takes down matter linked from a mailing list post?
16:22 ben_vulpes don't contribute to linkrot, folks. at least put in a redirect when you take things down.
16:22 mircea_popescu there is that.
16:22 ben_vulpes meanwhile, what was the ml link now points to the foundation website, as that's where mod6 's v is most sensibly linked from
16:22 asciilifeform redirects dun do much good for signed matter, do they
16:23 mircea_popescu why not ?
16:23 asciilifeform hm oughta work, if sig also redirect
16:26 PeterL asciilifeform: I have succesfully built the FFA chapters 1-3 (on this here mac), and they give the expected respones using the included demo.
16:27 asciilifeform congrats PeterL
16:37 asciilifeform !~later tell mod6 plox to consider http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752260 case , vtron really oughta barf informatively if a req'd unix util is notfound, imho
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16:37 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 21:00 asciilifeform: oh lemme guess, are you on crapple box PeterL ?
16:37 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
16:38 asciilifeform this particular problem will go away when phf bakes his new-type vdifftron . but until then it will prolly recur.
16:44 PeterL I guess it is good I built in on a mac, exposes some bugs that would not have been seen if everybody used linux
16:45 PeterL they are so close but have the wierdest quirky differences
~ 52 minutes ~
17:37 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-26#896379
17:37 a111 Logged on 2014-10-26 03:33 decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars
~ 39 minutes ~
18:17 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: that's possibly circa-2004, at latest, thinking. today it dun look so hot even from outside, to naked eye. 'update and MUST REBOOT NAO' popups, a la microshit, crashes, even shitware beginning to bloom, whole orchestra, 'regression to mean'
18:18 * asciilifeform sat down and tried to think of something good to say about it, 'at least it ships with compiler' then remembered that.. it doesn't, not after jobs died
18:24 asciilifeform in other noose, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18418 << congrats to PeterL, the first (self-proclaimed, but there ain't gonna be any other kind, i dun run a usg-style school, 'diploma' is a matter of yer own conscience) ffa ch1 graduate .
18:25 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to intern http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch.peterl.sig
18:25 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
~ 31 minutes ~
18:56 asciilifeform !!up colorics
18:56 deedbot colorics voiced for 30 minutes.
18:56 asciilifeform colorics: who might you be ?
~ 1 hours 25 minutes ~
20:22 asciilifeform meanwhile for gnat archaeologists ( mod6 ? et al ) >> http://okellogg.de
20:36 mircea_popescu !~later peterl i dunno, i think the ideal is no future for macs.
20:36 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "peterl" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
20:37 mircea_popescu whatever love anyone had for them back for their 1990s typographic utility is long lost.
20:37 * mod6 reads
20:40 * asciilifeform stuck presently in an infuriating gnat labyrinth : turns out, a proggy that set pragma Restrictions(No_Secondary_Stack) , cannot use Ada.Command_Line ( equiv of argc/argc in c-planet ). so then asciilifeform went to make own replacement. and turns out , guesswat, no can haz, because pragma Restrictions(No_Unchecked_Conversion) -- and argv, where commandline lives, is a pointer to nonadatronic (i.e. c-style) string .
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20:41 mircea_popescu ahaha
20:41 mircea_popescu this is actually a great property.
20:41 asciilifeform so then the obvious answer is from the standard, which proclaims that Restrictions(....) can be made to act per-partition (i.e. on libffa , but not the calling prog)
20:41 asciilifeform BUT this is apparently broken in gnat.
20:41 asciilifeform unless i missed sumthing.
20:41 mircea_popescu do these hold at runtime ?
20:42 mircea_popescu or just compiler enforced
20:42 asciilifeform they hold at build time, and disable chunks of the runtimelib
20:42 asciilifeform (i.e. chunks of the language)
20:42 mircea_popescu mmm
20:42 mircea_popescu so ada binaries actually better than plain elf.
20:43 asciilifeform so from this 4hr tour of wtf, asciilifeform learns that the only way to give his ada proggies access to argc/argv, is apparently to give'em a c main() (gnat makes this trivial) where all of the c-ism happens, which then invokes the proggy proper.
20:43 asciilifeform ( which is what iirc diana_coman did , in one of her published routines )
20:43 mircea_popescu aha.
20:43 mircea_popescu also gives a "no c main" ada proggy a serious gold trophy.
20:44 mircea_popescu not just fab gold, either.
20:44 asciilifeform not hard tho, just dun use argc/argv
20:44 asciilifeform until nao i never thought of doing it
20:44 mircea_popescu yes, but a bad habit tough to break
20:45 asciilifeform quite tough if yer writing proggy for unixbox.
20:47 mircea_popescu isn't it refreshing just how fucking good an "unknown" ie, no women-in-tech language can actually be ?
20:47 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752249 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745105
20:47 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 20:39 asciilifeform: i could've sworn there was a mod6 thread about this not long ago
20:47 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 21:17 mod6: ben_vulpes: you may want to update the link to my V in this blog post (http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system) as it's old. This is the latest: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-March/000260.html
20:47 asciilifeform incidentally http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752302 is worth expanding on : it is impossible to implement Ada.Command_Line sanely (i.e. without using secondary stack.) the reason is that argv is a potential 'infinity' -- it contains an uncapped number of c-strings of uncapped ( as are all c-strings ) length.
20:47 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 01:40 asciilifeform stuck presently in an infuriating gnat labyrinth : turns out, a proggy that set pragma Restrictions(No_Secondary_Stack) , cannot use Ada.Command_Line ( equiv of argc/argc in c-planet ). so then asciilifeform went to make own replacement. and turns out , guesswat, no can haz, because pragma Restrictions(No_Unchecked_Conversion) -- and argv, where commandline lives, is a pointer to nonadatronic (i.e. c-style) string .
20:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: esp. comedic considering the name of the item
20:48 mod6 Notification of updates to v are posted in the comments there.
20:48 asciilifeform ty mod6 . loox liek he found it in the end
20:49 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752281 << Agree! Noted.
20:49 a111 Logged on 2017-12-16 21:37 asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 plox to consider http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752260 case , vtron really oughta barf informatively if a req'd unix util is notfound, imho
20:49 mircea_popescu yep.
20:50 mircea_popescu but it's THIS kind of woman, not THAt kind of "women"
20:50 mircea_popescu ie, http://trilema.com/2014/hey-stupid-women-we-need-to-talk-smart-women-dont-want-to-be-with-you-anymore/
20:51 asciilifeform re 'unknown', i suspect that the stink of the landfill of usgism it lay buried in, is not entirely irrelevant
20:51 mod6 <+asciilifeform> ty mod6 . loox liek he found it in the end << thanks for helping him!
20:51 asciilifeform at the very least it was why asciilifeform took as long as he did, to unearth it
21:02 mircea_popescu in other lulz from fiatlands, "sales engineer"
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21:02 ben_vulpes mod6: aha thanks
21:02 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i have never understood wtf that was or how it was supposed to work
21:03 mircea_popescu i had no idea it even existed.
21:03 mircea_popescu best construction i can put on it is, "closest pantsuit can come to saying chumpatron operator wanted".
21:03 mircea_popescu worst construction... well... have you seen that tv show ?
21:05 ben_vulpes which?
21:05 mircea_popescu whichever, they're all the same.
21:05 mircea_popescu aaand in other parasite sites, check out best-bitcoin-mining-trading-info-near-you-australia.s3.amazonaws.com/Best-bitcoin-mining-difficulty-over-time-Information-for-*, such as best-bitcoin-mining-trading-info-near-you-australia.s3.amazonaws.com/Best-bitcoin-mining-difficulty-over-time-Information-for-Oakdowns-7019-TAS-2018.html
21:06 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752340 << eh that's from the land where there exist 'building engineer' (i.e. janitor)
21:06 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 02:02 mircea_popescu: in other lulz from fiatlands, "sales engineer"
21:06 mircea_popescu some dude managed to rank ~5trillion pages in teh google cache BECAUSE the "artificial intelligence" of bayesian-cum-minimum-wage-tractor works exactly like this "hand populate a list with wikipeida and whatever, and then "rank" items"
21:07 mircea_popescu so amazonaws.com is on the hitler list, and consequently smaller fleas wish to ride atop the back of the great whale flea.
21:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hilarious bonus : only misconfigured www normally results in *.awswhatever url ordinarily
21:08 mircea_popescu but here deliberately "misconfigured"
21:08 asciilifeform here yes
21:08 asciilifeform but the 'dog' this particular flea rides on, theoretically shouldn't even exist
21:08 mircea_popescu anyway, quoted because it's a great example of the ~principle~ of the thing, whereby you don't want fucking fleas, because "government" anointed fleas are no better and no cleanner than random from the street.
21:08 asciilifeform ( it -- yes , exists )
21:09 mircea_popescu moreover i'm curious how they'll "fix" this. evidently correct solution (throw out amazonaws from hitler list of "acceptable websites") ain't happening so.. what ? introduce limit of max 8 chars for subdomain ?
21:09 asciilifeform what's the charcount cap for dnsolade anyway
21:09 asciilifeform dun tell me 'infinite', lel
21:09 mircea_popescu c string neh
21:22 asciilifeform iirc they gotta fit in 512b udpgrams tho
21:23 mircea_popescu wasn't there an extended format ?
21:23 mircea_popescu 64kb ?
21:23 asciilifeform possibly
21:23 * asciilifeform dun recall from memory
~ 18 minutes ~
21:41 ben_vulpes entirely unrelatedly, i had a half-cord of firewood dropped off and racked tidily in my basement a week or so ago and holy smokes the luxury of having effectively unlimited firewood during the wintertime is almost as good as i imagine not having to suffer through pacific northwest winters must be
21:42 asciilifeform in other noose, congrats to ben_vulpes , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18420 << 2nd ffa ch1 graduate
21:43 ben_vulpes all congrats to you sir, p vastly more enjoyable and engrossing than any other 'content' any imperial attentionfarm has produced in my lifetime
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21:44 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to intern http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpi/ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch.benvulpes.sig
21:44 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
21:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: here's a lul : where i live there is almost unlimited firewood (someone is always cutting down old wood, giving away) but i've no fireplace.
21:45 ben_vulpes this is primo hardwoods, seasoned professionally.
21:45 asciilifeform ( in ameri-cardboard-house of recent decades' vintage, it is uncommon to find fireplace )
21:46 ben_vulpes genius brother-in-law-in-waiting decided to bless the family mountain retreat with a whole cord of what turned out to be entirely unseasoned softwood from godknowswhere. literally worst choice, literally unprepared for civilized use.
21:47 * trinque was pleased to get two nights of fireplace usage (and one of snow!) before it went back to 60-70F
21:47 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: shame about the pressed shitboard, yeah.
21:48 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-09#1749002 << gotta ask, how didjer *bones* cramp up boss
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21:48 a111 Logged on 2017-12-09 01:10 mircea_popescu: ran in the rain, got terrible shin cramps from it, got massage from nude interloper while playing with her tits... my life is so unfair.
21:49 mod6 shin-splits or what-not eh?
↖ ↖
21:49 * ben_vulpes did first 6-mile haul this afternoon, pushing > 15 kilos of stroller
21:49 * mod6 hates running
21:49 ben_vulpes not strictly cramps, that.
21:50 * ben_vulpes taking a walk down pedantry lane is al
21:50 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: hey relatedly as you might deduce i do have a usable gnat setup nao
21:51 trinque I'm over here dusting off the musl gentoo recipe to produce same.
21:51 ben_vulpes ohey
21:51 asciilifeform trinque: i'd much like to see a working musltronic gnat
21:51 * asciilifeform does not currently have one
21:51 trinque whole turd gettin published when done
21:51 ben_vulpes but by WHOM?!?!?!
21:52 trinque since I last ran the recipe, as yet anonymous shitgnomes broke the downgrade to gcc 4.9.4
21:52 asciilifeform nominally libc doesn't go in a gnat-baked elf, so it isn't quite the same urgency as musltronic gcc-for-trb was
21:52 asciilifeform but i want a musltronic linux, and yes with gnat
21:55 asciilifeform ( what ~does~ go in the elf ? see thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1743984 )
21:55 a111 Logged on 2017-11-29 01:38 asciilifeform yet again, for 3rd time in 2 yrs, attempted and failed to build a 'zero foot print runtime' for gnat -- to abolish the 3MB of liquishit it shits into every executable.
21:58 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes wood fired stoves are pretty cool, for the first few months.
21:58 mircea_popescu gets tedious after, which is why god made winter not last.
21:59 ben_vulpes remarked the other night that i understood in short order the fireplace -> 'franklin' stove motivations
21:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752370 << this is quite on point ; there's just about ~nothing of any interest or to any degree interesting happening anywhere else fwis.
21:59 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 02:43 ben_vulpes: all congrats to you sir, p vastly more enjoyable and engrossing than any other 'content' any imperial attentionfarm has produced in my lifetime
21:59 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: phunphakt, franklin's stove is even today in ru known as a буржуйка ( why? dunno, because from usa ? hard to say )
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22:00 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750491 )
22:00 a111 Logged on 2017-12-13 16:40 asciilifeform finds that he cannot think of grouse without recalling mayakovsky's 'Ешь ананасы, рябчиков жуй, / день твой последний приходит, буржуй.'
22:00 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes romania still has in the rural areas the habsburg empire's premier invention in this world, the vienese smokes terracotta
22:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the flat i grew up in, had one
22:00 asciilifeform ( despite total lack of habsburgs... )
22:00 mircea_popescu got hanbot a place with one while she resided in ro, she quite liked it iirc.
22:00 asciilifeform massively glorious thing
22:00 mircea_popescu yes. it is, when one understands the problem, a properly speaking breathtaking accomplishment.
22:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713764 << very much in same vein of discussion
22:01 a111 Logged on 2017-09-13 19:34 mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry.
22:01 asciilifeform iirc in anglostan such a stove is called 'dutch stove'
22:01 mircea_popescu "there was no technology before fly-eyes" because it... wasn't for the fucking fly eyes, that's why!
22:02 mircea_popescu dutch item is later copy of austrian original. you know, like gouda.
22:02 mircea_popescu notbad, but chinesium avant la lettre.
22:02 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751375 << Wern't people also deeding these a while back?
22:02 a111 Logged on 2017-12-14 00:41 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1751176 << nah, too complex and therefore frail system like that. simply : host ALL sigs for ALL things yourself ; let the urls be known publicly and don't change them.
22:02 ben_vulpes fireplace just ain't a worthwhile thing unless you've got the woodpile to keep ti at least smouldering all day, roaring at night, and pretty lasses to keep it stoked. nevertheless, i'll enjoy this one while i have it.
22:02 mircea_popescu (and i am deeply unsurprised the anglotards know not what they talk of. country of whiskey drinkers and so on)
22:02 ben_vulpes oh and it hasta be large enough to fit benches *inside*
22:03 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes are you making a stove or a cookery
22:03 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i'm rhapsodizing about my tiny fireplace
22:03 mircea_popescu how big is it ?
22:03 mircea_popescu standard item about 2-3 m3, though it can be made larger (there's a twinning method)
22:04 ben_vulpes .8m x .64 m
22:05 asciilifeform http://media.informpskov.ru/pictures/20101028114604.jpg << example ( ours was considerably larger, iirc )
22:05 mircea_popescu remarkab ly small. i dunno whether it's a work-of-art omfg i can't believe master stovier managed to get the smokes crushed into that space or rather "we dunno what we did". i could guess, but why guess.
22:05 ben_vulpes can i get a link to this "dutch stove" marvel fo engineering?
22:05 asciilifeform it's an item that spans multiple rooms, and the stones ( the walls are stone, not shitwall, necessarily ) retain heat
22:05 mircea_popescu aaanyway -- is ben_vulpes going to make himself smoker next, grow rich out of feeding quality breakfast meats to the greater cascadia ?
22:05 ben_vulpes holy shit what even is that
22:06 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: stove.
22:06 ben_vulpes i have a hole in the wall into which i pour bezzlars and light them on fire for fun
22:06 mircea_popescu that looks swedish style.
22:06 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ours had statues of cherubs on top, as early 1900s bling fluorish. 1 cherub was missing his head. legend was, ro soldiers shot it for target practice, with luger.
22:06 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: 'greater cascadia' ain't welcome in my domus
22:07 mircea_popescu http://adelaparvu.com/2014/08/22/superbe-sobele-si-semineurile-cu-cahle-pictate-de-la-targu-secuiesc-aici-se-pot-reconstitui-si-sobe-vechi/ <<< much better examples of the austrian item with variations.
22:07 mod6 Sorry, was just lookin through logs. Might have mis-remembered that.
22:07 mircea_popescu it's as old and culturally relevant as musical instruments (violins, say)
22:07 mircea_popescu as it happens a major center was at tirgu secuiesc in ro. apparently still active, they fix and rebuild.
22:08 ben_vulpes ah i have seen variations on this
22:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is somewhat different item. in the ru variant, the firebox is in the hallway, and the tiled item is smooth/without openings; the chimney is concealed in the wall
22:08 mircea_popescu and yes many of them are built cross-wall.
22:08 ben_vulpes large thermal mass, engineering time spent to ensure complete combustion, sometimes a long horizontal chimney too?
22:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and if you do a calorimetry experiment you'll see the austrian item converts nigh on 8% more than the swedish system
22:09 asciilifeform i can picture.
22:09 mircea_popescu this is why this interests me, "make stove, with 1700s tech, i'll put it in the calorimeter and measure your %"
22:09 mircea_popescu turns out there was a remarkably good solution, and a bunch of notbad ones.
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22:09 asciilifeform the troo tragedy is that idiot orcs have mostly demolished these by nao. even when asciilifeform was a boy, slipping into attics and cellars in those massive blocks of flats, found piles and piles of rubble -- from illicitly-demolished stoves, 'Just Wanted Moar Space in flat' types
22:10 ben_vulpes anyways, way the heck upstack, `FZ_Clear` 'sets a given FZ to zero' but i only see an outparam; is this not more of a constructor than zero-er?
22:10 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: ^^
22:10 mircea_popescu aside the matter that the problem hasn't been approached in postmoidernism, i dun see much better solutions available than historically found.
22:10 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: there is no 'constructor' in ffa . and FZ_Clear does exactly as printed on the box
22:10 asciilifeform i.e. writes 0 into each word of the destination.
22:11 ben_vulpes ah because you still pass outparams into a function call
22:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752379 << the shin is not the tibia, the shin is the front part of the lower segment of human leg, opposite calf.
22:11 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 02:48 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-09#1749002 << gotta ask, how didjer *bones* cramp up boss
22:11 asciilifeform procedure, ben_vulpes . not function
22:11 asciilifeform ( these are different animals in ada planet )
22:11 ben_vulpes hm
22:12 asciilifeform 'out' param means exactly that -- write-only
22:12 ben_vulpes okay i'll look into that.
22:12 ben_vulpes so 'in out' means that data can be read from the param and will also be written into, whereas 'out' means that data will only be written to the param in the procedure?
22:13 asciilifeform aha
22:13 ben_vulpes ty
22:14 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: https://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~pautet/Ada95/chap08.htm << see also
22:15 asciilifeform and, naturally, the standard, http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rat/html/Rat12-4-2.html
22:17 asciilifeform ( ada params are a moar complicated matter than ffa might suggest: when reading heathen proggies you will encounter such things as 'aliased' i.e. pointerola , and related items. )
22:19 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752450 << to continue thread : the essential boojum is that you cannot have any kind of good stove, swedish, austrian, whichever, in cardboard house
22:19 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 03:09 mircea_popescu: turns out there was a remarkably good solution, and a bunch of notbad ones.
22:19 mircea_popescu no. must be brick walls.
22:19 asciilifeform they all rely on brick aha
22:20 mircea_popescu but, also just as important though not in fact exposed for other reasons : stove IS BUILT IN PLACE.
22:20 asciilifeform nobody conceived that monkeys will try to house themselves in gigantic wooden shacks
22:20 mircea_popescu ie, it was strictly a manor house item historically ; and part of the manorial system in europe.
22:20 mircea_popescu peasant thatched roof, no possibility of chimney etc
22:20 asciilifeform peasant huts had their own type of stove
22:21 asciilifeform ( often enuff where they were burned, you can still find the stove, it stands 4evah )
22:21 trinque heh, in other peasant huts, cannot build gcc 4.9.4 from 6.4.0 on gentoo musl, gotta step to 5.4.0 first.
22:22 asciilifeform http://printonic.ru/uploads/images/2016/02/22/img_56cae08a49909.jpg << subj
22:22 trinque this was not always true of the 6.x series; I've done 4.9.4 on it in the past.
22:22 asciilifeform trinque: iirc ben_vulpes recently ran into the same wall
22:22 trinque aha, I recall. can confirm.
22:23 * trinque now emerge --emptytree @world to see what other mysteries await
22:23 mircea_popescu but, it is very important to revisit and underline ye olde mazarin point ( ie http://trilema.com/2014/modern-medicine-and-the-benefits-of-democracy/ ) : there is constant technological progress, in the PROPER sense (ie, NOT for plebels, but for lords AND FOR LORDS ONLY) going from 700ad to 1700ad. THIS, and THIS ONLY is what gave "technological progress" its good name -- when the lord changed ye olde fireplace in the common k
22:23 mircea_popescu night hall inherited from his granpa with modern teracotta item. THAT was progress, and the knights applauded, and felt proud to fight and die for such a greatly SUPERIOR homeland, as represented by their lords castle, as communicated to them by their god damned STOVE. and by, to quote period, "wer kriegt so prompt wie der preusse sein traktament!"
22:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik the only otherwise-functional culture that failed to invent proper chimneys, was east asia ( e.g. jp ) where hole-in-the-ceiling
22:24 mircea_popescu in exactly typical socialist fashion, the fucktards have been selling off this item not belonging to them, "technological progress", repainted as "hey, new iphone came out!! it's cheaper and shittier and works less!!!"
22:24 mircea_popescu NOT the fucking same thing. at all!!!
22:24 asciilifeform what am i missing
22:24 mircea_popescu where ?
22:25 asciilifeform chimney, but 'not same thing'
22:25 asciilifeform or hm misparsed?
22:25 mircea_popescu misparse.
22:25 mircea_popescu japan is a weird case, they also failed to invent -- leather footwear.
22:25 mircea_popescu and all sorts of basics.
22:25 asciilifeform lolyes ever see ye olde gravures, with the mousetrap shoes.
22:25 mircea_popescu fate of islands, to suck. japan is basically easter island on steroids.
22:25 asciilifeform ( they look exactly as if )
22:25 mircea_popescu aha.
22:26 asciilifeform aha, island, beggars collected iron nails after a fire, etc.
22:26 mircea_popescu yup.
22:27 mircea_popescu but the reason they are admired, unlike say the chinese, who were never admired and possibly never will be, is because they squeezed so very much of the fucking little the yhad.\
22:27 mircea_popescu ie, right back to the calorimetry-yer-stove discussion.
22:27 asciilifeform nearly escaped the island, even
22:27 mircea_popescu perfection, no matter in what problem, is the only item of interest whatsoever.
22:29 asciilifeform poverty makes some folx frugal, thrifty, able to make wonders 'in 4kB of ram' etc -- others -- into monkeys, and asciilifeform doesn't know why
22:29 mircea_popescu there's a very deep reason why the english landed in china thought china is fit to be a sort of wales -- more distant, populated by dumber monkeys (yes the "gauls" were monkeys -- farming idiots), larger but still, fundamentally fucking wales.
22:29 mircea_popescu and it impressed nobody that "hey, we sum up to X", because the X was so un-intensive.
22:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform landlockness is a major predictor. notice, koreans less retarded than chinese. there's this sweetspot in terms of shore/sqacre basis\
22:30 asciilifeform the chinese had the misfortune to invent the bureaucrat, the 'delusionist' , and other undesirable 'moderns' , 2k yr before europe 'climbed down from trees'
22:31 asciilifeform they still suffer it.
22:31 mircea_popescu no, actually -- they invented it late in the relative game.
22:31 mircea_popescu chinese climbed down from trees 3.5k-ish yearsd before europe.
22:31 mircea_popescu (invention of bureaucracy in europe is no later than diocletian. possibly caesar.)
22:32 asciilifeform it can only happen when empire -- just like can't have a chernobyl before discovering fission
22:32 mircea_popescu history at least supports your view.
22:33 mircea_popescu though various failed bioexperiments such as the pesky northern american troglodytes -- iroquis et all, seemingly managed to invent a bureaucracy-without-empire
22:33 mircea_popescu in the shape of a (bad) solution to "here's the male hut, wut do now"
22:33 asciilifeform an afaik mandatory precondition for bureaucracy , is to have with what to feed the mass of useless folx
22:33 asciilifeform i.e. empire ( unless martians were to drop food... )
22:34 mircea_popescu you can have it in places where the women are relatively infertile and the berry bushes abundant.
22:34 asciilifeform dunno if it makes sense to equate gatherer-monkey to bureaucrat
22:34 mircea_popescu which is why sweden is a shithole, and always was a shithole.
22:34 mircea_popescu large cheap food inputs and low pop growth rate -> surplus to be "used".
22:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the gather monkey is the bureaucrat enabler.
22:35 mircea_popescu consider how the jew system works : balabusta in tyhe shop selling to make money for man to sit all day around sinagogue and godbureaucrat.
22:35 asciilifeform scale model of empire
22:35 mircea_popescu the jews did not invent, it is naturally occuring. in places with high natural food resources at low cost (say fishing in sweden, berry picking in northern us etc) -- happens.
22:35 mircea_popescu more like accidental implementation of some parts of empire.
22:37 asciilifeform herbivore oughta be ready to play his own piece in foodchain, however.
22:37 asciilifeform nobody's passed out exemptions from this.
22:37 mircea_popescu well, fwis they did without complaint, all that's left of "the great iroquis" is the occasional tall, fuckable redskin chick.
22:38 mircea_popescu john bull made 'em beef jerky.
22:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752381 << very heavy incline, water makes it wet. turns out you run in a very peculiar manner when mostly trying not to take off under your own mommentum on a water-effect'd road!
22:39 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 02:49 mod6: shin-splits or what-not eh?
22:39 asciilifeform the marginally less-herbivorous survived, to slowly eltsin to death in casinos in dakota somewhere
22:39 mircea_popescu just like the swedes.
22:39 mircea_popescu but -- ill grant this readily -- historical good nutrition makes for tall, fuckable broads. so it's not all lost,
22:39 mircea_popescu dungeon ain't gonna populate itself.
22:40 asciilifeform i still have nfi wtf happened to the swedes. in '40s they were an actual thing, supplied something short of 100% of german iron
22:40 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752381 << hey, turns out there's a term for this! i had nfi.
22:40 a111 Logged on 2017-12-17 02:49 mod6: shin-splits or what-not eh?
22:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "failure to thrive", it's a thing.
22:40 asciilifeform yes but why then.
22:41 asciilifeform they made bank on the war, oughta be ridin' high even nao
22:41 mircea_popescu who knows, maybe they come back. they've been really spotty throughout history as it is, like this radio that keeps going in and out
22:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform money is nothing without a dick.
22:41 asciilifeform right, the mystery reduces to who 'bobbitted' them
22:42 mircea_popescu possibly not a who, seeing how event happened over long period. who bobbits pulsar
22:42 mircea_popescu maybe it's just what the pulsar IS
22:44 * mircea_popescu makes no claim to knowledge re swedes. i just fuck'em is all.
22:44 asciilifeform supposedly typical swede still believes that ( at this point, centenarian ? ) nazis seekreetly run errything in sweden
22:45 asciilifeform and cleverly hide behind the clitlers , somehow.
22:46 asciilifeform ilkka kokkarinen ( http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ilkka.txt ! ) , censored and defrocked-for-failing-to-usgkowtow comp sci professor , described this at some point
22:46 asciilifeform ( he was a finn, and knew swedish )
22:51 mircea_popescu wtf is with all the orc glyps
22:52 * mircea_popescu does his usual s%\n\n%\r\r% s%\n% % s%\r\r%\n\n% while muttering underbreath about the idiocy of fucktards who STILL DON'T UNDERTAND NEWLINE STANDS FOR NEW PARAGRAPH!!11
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22:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's lifted directly out of the ( long ago vanished ) shitazon 'ebook' copy.
22:53 mircea_popescu oh
22:53 asciilifeform unprocessed.
22:53 mircea_popescu that has mightly explaining power.
22:54 asciilifeform originally lived in his blog, and presumably looked similar.
22:54 asciilifeform ( also vanished, unsurprisingly )
22:54 asciilifeform !#s ilkka
22:54 a111 39 results for "ilkka", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ilkka
22:54 asciilifeform ^ see also.
22:55 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-16#925211 << in particular. ( notably, it happened TWICE. 1st time he -- iirc -- sued, and won. 2nd time -- gone for good. )
22:55 a111 Logged on 2014-11-16 05:31 mircea_popescu: The brilliant Finnish-Canadian computer science professor / blogger Ilkka Kokkarinen has taken down his popular blog, presumably to keep his job after his campus newspaper noticed his heterodox views. His skepticism about the intellectual consistency of lesbian-feminist theory and practice would appear to have been his biggest crime.
22:56 asciilifeform from same thread, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ilkka.zip << still there, still afaik only copy of his 1st blog in existence on public net
↖ ↖
22:57 shinohai ^LOL
22:57 asciilifeform and it isn't boring , either. pretty great stuff.
22:57 shinohai top warez, only in trilema
22:58 asciilifeform the earlier txt , consisted of the 'best-of' of his 2nd blog ( sans the comments )
22:59 asciilifeform he collected, and self-published as shitazon + deadtree ( which i even have, picked up before it was banned ) . then zapped.
22:59 asciilifeform quite characteristically , he was driven into deleting ~own~ errythings
23:00 asciilifeform ( specifically how -- i do not know. but entire case is notable because , unlike typical academitard, fella was known to have balls , and successfully fired said balls even on 1 occasion. but he was not mp, worked for a living, eventually defeated. )
23:03 mircea_popescu "lesbian-feminist" lmao.
23:04 mircea_popescu news at 11, airs of respectability put forth by butch dyke idiocy entirely dependent on nobody pointing and laughing
23:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey, i work!
23:05 mircea_popescu i just cut myself a slice of cozonac, and put my own ice in my own fucking cinzano. and then, when i wanted a refill, I STOOD UP AND GOT IT.
23:05 mircea_popescu for the first time in a decade, at that. BUT I DID IT!
23:08 asciilifeform speaking of this, brb
~ 26 minutes ~
23:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform check this out, ikka k. apparently also keenly aware that liberals are generally poor and helpless.
23:37 mircea_popescu kinda why the whole "do you have money ? no ? then shut the fuck up." works so well socially, personally and in general. because they... don't. and they know how to get it and know they can't get it. hence "cat-v" etc.
23:37 mircea_popescu "The entire spectrum of thought of those who we call liberals, progressives, socialists, trendoids or Marxists [ie, what we call pantsuit] depending on what is fashionable today, can be reduced to and explained as the simple automata that they are. After identifying many genuine problems and solving them to the extent that they can be solved, liberalism devolved into naked group identity politics and petty status signaling fo
23:37 mircea_popescu r the verbal New Class, downwardly mobile in not just wealth but also societal respect, and desperate to distinguish itself from the working class. Since this vanguard tends to be paid not enough to do this with classic material means, they have set up a parallel status hierarchy based on the tastes and aspirations of Lloyd Dobler to ensure that they get to be its kings and, mostly, its queens. Even the few rich liberals subs
23:37 mircea_popescu cribe in public, but certainly not in their private actions, to the shibboleths of this group."
23:40 mircea_popescu o hey, check this out...
23:40 mircea_popescu "If I had to describe using only a couple of sentences what it feels like to be a conservative, I would probably compare it to the hypothetical but surreal experience of noticing how many people around you have headaches because they keep banging their heads against the wall. If you don't do anything, that makes you objectively a "part of the problem", especially if you express any distaste towards having to pay for some incr
23:40 mircea_popescu easingly messy bureaucracy that claims to help headache sufferers even though it only ever comes up with increasingly absurd "solutions" to the new problems that its actions conjure up while its proponents do their best to explain away these consistent failures. On the other hand, if you try to help by suggesting that their heads would stop hurting if they just stopped banging them against the wall, you are a "simpleton" who
23:40 mircea_popescu doesn't understand the enormous complexity and the "root causes" of this problem. What can you do, except perhaps escape to one of the few remaining islands of sanity, and hope that the madness doesn't follow you there, at least for a while?"
23:41 mircea_popescu perfectly fine statement ; though of course what you can do is... beat them. doh.
23:41 mircea_popescu hurt a pantsuit today, the worse the better and the more lastingly the more productive.
23:52 mircea_popescu o hey, only took a dozen of these to run aground. here we go :
23:53 mircea_popescu "A few decades ago before all this current silliness started, the humanities and liberal arts departments in academia were badly losing the science wars. After all, even astrology at least makes falsifiable predictions (to say nothing of the fact that stars actually exist), a hurdle far above the abilities of most of the humanities. Desperate to prove that they are just as true and valid systems of thought as all those hard s
23:53 mircea_popescu ciences that get constantly tested and have to prove their correspondence to the uncompromising objective reality every day, no wonder they fell so hard for the postmodernist mumbo-jumbo of Derrida, Latour and Lacan that sweetly whispered in their ears that Western science is only one narrative and "text" among many that are equally valid, and since it is an objective truth that no objective truths exist, science only tries t
23:53 mircea_popescu o justify the right of the white male patriarchal capitalist phallogocentric power hegemony to dictate its values and lifestyle choices on the oppressed groups and silence all hedonistic and rebellious dissent against it. Fast forward to the present day, and now the humanities and liberal arts are solidly left-wing in the culture wars, for various reasons. Surely I can't possibly be the only one to laugh at the unintentional
23:53 mircea_popescu comedy in how they now whine that those global warming deniers disrespect the absolute authority of science, so all those dissenters ought to be silenced and their hedonistic lifestyles curtailed... by force if necessary?"
23:54 mircea_popescu brushing off the "here's how stupid people use microscope as hammer because they're hammer folk and irrespective of microscope in any sense" as thoroughly uninteresting : it's fundamentally true that science, even if properly understood (as in eg http://trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/ ), is still nothing more than one "text", ie, one possible read of pheomena.
23:56 asciilifeform ins'allah electron will go in correct direction!1
23:58 mircea_popescu it's evidently not true that "all reads are equally valid" or in any way just as good ; but it's certainly not the case that science is sufficient per se. this should be directly evident, but even without that : science is, much like nature itself, a SMOOTH process (a valuable reference here being http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-04#1732986 ), and as such WILL get trapped in local maxima. which is why heuristics is a thing, and
23:58 a111 Logged on 2017-11-04 16:05 mircea_popescu: that's smooth noise. \
23:58 mircea_popescu also why eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-07#1711281 and that whole discussion with "only value of natural language is its ambiguity" and so on.
23:58 a111 Logged on 2017-09-07 17:50 mircea_popescu: but yes, this provides on the side an excellent explanation in this context's terminology of why man must learn languages : it is the ONLY way to have orthogonality in natural speech.
23:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform provided there's a direction in the first place. science is defenseless in front of category error
23:59 mircea_popescu (consider the most scientific attempts to make sewing machine that failed for a century, and the most unscientific eventual solution. also, evidently, airplanes.)
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