Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-01-25 | 2019-01-27 → ↓
00:00 * asciilifeform sold.
00:02 asciilifeform re 'orange man', apparently caved today
00:03 asciilifeform re the shitdown.
00:03 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Mentioned earlier
00:03 BingoBoingo I read less of a cave, more let them choke on cake
00:04 mircea_popescu how's that work ?
00:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889962 << aa
00:04 a111 Logged on 2019-01-25 19:47 BingoBoingo: In other news, it looks like Trump agrees with OMB on the furlough thing per http://qntra.net/2019/01/trump-cancels-pantsuit-vacation-party/ Agreeing to turn the government back on for 3 weeks and then declaring emergency
00:05 BingoBoingo Trump gives Pantsuit voters paychecks through 2-15-2019, after that they deliver his wall or he declares and emergency and heads roll to be impaled on artistically designed steel border slats
00:09 BingoBoingo I read Trump seeing that blame in this dispute is still not sufficiently laid upon Nancy's failure to engage Trump. For that reason Trump is teasing Nancy with 3 weeks to engage or hang herself.
00:09 asciilifeform i dunget why not tease with another +3wks of hunger
00:10 BingoBoingo Too many weeks of hunger they die. Gotta toss some carbs occasionally to sustain the suffering.
00:12 asciilifeform lol what die. i dunget the whiners, either, what sorta office inmate wouldn't kill for month of vacation ( even unpaid )
00:12 BingoBoingo 3 weeks of food means he can run to November 2020 selling how reasonable he was
00:13 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> lol what die. i dunget the whiners, either, what sorta office inmate wouldn't kill for month of vacation ( even unpaid ) << Maduro's Venezuela has some pretty sweet beaches now forbidden to USG.blue according to intel.
00:18 BingoBoingo Culturally Vzla is Batista's Cuba with a culinary norm higher than ham sandwiches
00:20 mircea_popescu i guess i can see it.
00:24 * BingoBoingo has read many "trump surrendered" gut reaction pieces which all neglected time value. What are 3 weeks out of 104 weeks.
00:30 BingoBoingo For all the years Castros have held Cuba, Cuba like the rest of the island caribeans lacks an answer to the Areps
00:30 BingoBoingo *Arepa
~ 16 minutes ~
00:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo reading through this crap i see what you mean ; not exactly exultant pantsuit on the receiving end of trump's mercy. seems rather most of the low level bureaucracy will vote trump next, notwithstanding it owes so much to a lengthy clintonism.
00:47 mircea_popescu in bernie bernbaum's tems, "what have you done for me lately", and ESPECIALLY "how likely do you look to be able to do much".
00:48 BingoBoingo Right, the only exultant mouths are Buzzfat reporters getting laid off, to be included in a weekend roundup of Pantsuit trips and falls
00:50 BingoBoingo Maduro thrives on low level bureacracy. I doubt anyone is taking Nancy seriously after she proposed the same sum Trump wanted, but for robodogs.
01:04 BingoBoingo We live in times when la calle Libertad crosses Obligado y Trabajo but las calles Julio Caesar and Marco Bruto never touch
~ 2 hours 53 minutes ~
03:58 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889973 -> didn't rummage as too late yest but woke up this morning with this: when a= n-1 step 2.2 aka y=a^r mod n becomes y= (n-1)^r mod n; using for instance binomial expansion you have (n-1)^r = n^r + rC1*n^(r-1)*(-1)+rC2*n^(r-2)*(-1)^2+....+rC(r-1)*n*(-1)^(r-1)+(-1)^r; since the whole thing was "mod n", of all those terms you are in fact left with only the last one, aka y = (-1)^r mod n ; r is odd so
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03:58 a111 Logged on 2019-01-25 19:49 asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to post if you turn it up.
03:58 diana_coman that's (-1) mod n so y= n-1 and then there's nothing to do at step 2.3
~ 2 hours 19 minutes ~
06:17 feedbot http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/081-feedbot-manual.html << The Tar Pit -- Feedbot manual
~ 4 hours 24 minutes ~
10:41 asciilifeform diana_coman: this dun make sense to me;
10:42 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/vanstone-mr.jpg << for folx following the thread, context
10:42 diana_coman asciilifeform, specific?
10:42 asciilifeform diana_coman: 'nothing to do' is because it's a legit witness! algo returns 'prime'. ( and in non-constanttime incarnations, this is the ideal, shortcut case in fact )
10:44 asciilifeform i.e. case where a^r mod n = 1 or n - 1 .
10:45 diana_coman it is a leggit witness, yes; do you mean that it's not counted as it should be?
10:45 asciilifeform it makes sense to exclude a=0 and a=1, they give no useful information. but a = n - 1 gives.
10:45 diana_coman what information does it give?
10:45 asciilifeform diana_coman: correct. in implementations where a is forced to <= n - 2, n - 1 is excluded
10:45 asciilifeform diana_coman: it's a witness for some numbers. like erry other witness-for-some-numbers.
10:46 asciilifeform so why to exclude it ?
10:47 diana_coman hm; it always says "prime" though by definition so I'm not sure *what* information is missed when you exclude it
10:48 * asciilifeform goes to chalkboard , brb
10:52 asciilifeform diana_coman: it does ~not~ 'always return prime'. only returns prime if (n - 1)^r mod n is 1 or n - 1.
10:52 asciilifeform diana_coman: you can trivially see that it correctly judges e.g. 12 to be composite.
10:53 asciilifeform it's a perfectly 'kosher' witness for a very large chunk of the number line.
10:56 diana_coman asciilifeform, ? mind working me through that? I might be thick here
10:56 diana_coman alternatively: do you see a whole in my previous maffs?
10:57 diana_coman a hole, lol
10:58 asciilifeform diana_coman: bin(12) == 1100 . then r = 2. then, (n - 1)^r mod n == 11^2 mod 12 == 1. 12 is pronounced composite.
10:58 diana_coman o.o "such that r is odd"
10:58 diana_coman 2 is odd?
10:59 asciilifeform hm
10:59 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-26#1890129 -> specifically, here
10:59 a111 Logged on 2019-01-26 08:58 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889973 -> didn't rummage as too late yest but woke up this morning with this: when a= n-1 step 2.2 aka y=a^r mod n becomes y= (n-1)^r mod n; using for instance binomial expansion you have (n-1)^r = n^r + rC1*n^(r-1)*(-1)+rC2*n^(r-2)*(-1)^2+....+rC(r-1)*n*(-1)^(r-1)+(-1)^r; since the whole thing was "mod n", of all those terms you are in fact left with only the last one, aka y = (-1)^r mod n ; r is odd so
10:59 diana_coman that is my proof that always y= n-1 for a= n-1
10:59 diana_coman unless I have a mistake in there
10:59 * asciilifeform goes to walk the thing again
11:01 * asciilifeform still waking up, will have tea and ~then~ come back to item
11:01 diana_coman no hurry; if I have a mistake in there I certainly want to know
11:01 * diana_coman will bbl
11:03 asciilifeform diana_coman: r = 3 indeed. (n - 1)^r mod n == 11^3 mod 12 == 11 == n - 1.
11:05 asciilifeform to redo the earlier munged example: bin(12) == 1100. s = 2. r = 3. (n - 1)^r mod n == (12 - 1)^3 mod 12 == 11^3 mod 12 == 11, i.e. n - 1. witness.
11:06 diana_coman ugh; asciilifeform honestly, please walk through my working
11:07 asciilifeform ok, i'ma go an' set the kettle, bbl.
11:07 diana_coman enjoy!
11:11 asciilifeform while it boils : btw log readers can ignore the earlier arithm, it is entirely off ( asciilifeform computed r * 2^s = n instead of r * 2^s = n - 1 ... )
11:11 asciilifeform i ought not to do these before breakfast.
11:12 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 37 minutes ~
11:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's only a witness for EVEN composites tho ?
12:03 asciilifeform guten morgen mircea_popescu
12:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: asciilifeform elementarily made rubbish on the chalkboard, redoing whole thing nao.
12:05 asciilifeform ( in re this subthread, example proggy posted 2d ago was afaik correct )
12:17 asciilifeform diana_coman: yours is correct.
12:18 shinohai xpost for trb-ists: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/trb-keccak-regrind-test-results-and-notes.html
12:19 asciilifeform diana_coman: no hole.
12:27 asciilifeform diana_coman et al : i'ma rewrite my proofism from beginning, to see if i committed any other atrocity.
12:30 * asciilifeform already ended up having to do this 1ce, for barrettism
12:32 asciilifeform shinohai: i dun have any nitpicks , other than to note that the canonical gnat is ave1's
12:32 asciilifeform rather than adacorpse's
12:33 shinohai Is next on agendas, to try ave1's.
12:34 shinohai ( Currently, ave1 's website gives me "Your PHP installation appears to be missing the MySQL extension which is required by WordPress.")
12:35 asciilifeform hm it does indeed
12:35 asciilifeform ave1: ^ ?
12:39 asciilifeform shinohai: 1 other thing -- screenshits of shell are pretty hard to read (on e.g. asciilifeform's display), i recommend to use same textblock as you use elsewhere ( e.g. where 'list of dependencies' ) rather than screenshit
12:40 shinohai nb ... One thing lacking on blog is still proper css codeblock.
12:41 asciilifeform imho it really aint important that the shell colours etc be preserved
12:41 asciilifeform can use same styling as you did for the curls etc
12:42 shinohai (The color is leftover from vanilla install anyways, I usually strip this from .bashrc for daily use)
12:43 asciilifeform shinohai: it's same problem as with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889984 ; not only cannot be cut&paste'd or searched, but on folx having very diff display from orig author's, inevitably loox like soup
12:43 a111 Logged on 2019-01-25 20:04 asciilifeform so far even avoided bitmapped maffs, in the vein of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-20#1888458
12:44 asciilifeform bitmaps are a 'necessary evil' if yer displaying spread chix, or mandelbrots, or http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2913 -isms, etc; but for text you really wanna have text.
12:47 shinohai I rather enjoyed that post, btw. The soldering on that board is just beautiful.
12:47 asciilifeform shinohai: they were pretty ordinary '80s wave-solder
12:48 asciilifeform ( and even with the apparently-inescapable '80s pcb layout mistakes -- there's a few blue 'bodge wire' in there )
12:50 asciilifeform shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWH58QrprVc << wave soldering illustration.
12:52 shinohai Everyone knows this is the true way to solder: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/solderingiron.jpg
12:52 asciilifeform lol
12:55 asciilifeform shinohai: see also http://lurkmore.to/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80 ( 'rectothermal cryptoanalyzer' ) .
12:56 shinohai ibid: http://lurkmore.so/images/6/67/A.jpg <<< kek
12:57 asciilifeform shinohai: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1061 << see alsox2.
12:57 mircea_popescu anyone have a ready link to asciilifeform 's celebrated "in order for me to do anything else i'd have to have three trillion dollars in gold brick first" ?
12:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: prolly there's >1 !111 got specific thrd in mind ?
12:58 mircea_popescu first will work.
12:58 mircea_popescu believe it or not you figure by way of illustration in latest trilema opus.
12:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434 ?
12:58 a111 Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
12:58 feedbot http://qntra.net/2019/01/weekend-roundup-trump-gives-nancy-3-weeks-neocon-war-boner-building/ << Qntra -- Weekend Roundup: Trump Gives Nancy 3 Weeks, Neocon War Boner Building
12:58 mircea_popescu no, no. you personally, "to move" or w/e it was.
12:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mountain of gold brick sounds like a lethal overdose, lol
13:00 mircea_popescu fifteen galons to the ton, not so bad.
13:01 asciilifeform i dun mean 'bust open guts trying to move it', but 'when somebody gets wind that you have it'
13:02 asciilifeform see also captain kidd.
13:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you might be thinking of old flamefest ( possibly with diana_coman & mircea_popescu ) where asciilifeform was asked 'why dontcha quit yer dayjob' and asciilifeform answered 'would consider it, if , like the 2 of you, had enuff coin to permanently leave slave market , with x% engineering margin' or sumthing of the kind
13:07 asciilifeform speaking of which,
13:07 asciilifeform !#seen Mocky
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13:07 a111 2019-01-23 <Mocky> being chucked into the air?
13:07 mircea_popescu that's exactly what i'm thinking of.
13:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: can't seem to dredge it up in O(1). feel free to cite the summary tho, if writing a piece to laff at asciilifeform , who is big boy and wont cry
13:09 mircea_popescu ah, not in the slightest.
13:11 asciilifeform and hey, asciilifeform is not even the worst horse in that gluefactory, the 1000 btc or whatever it was i calculated then, is still coupla orders of magnitude smaller than that d00d we had who 'couldn't do' until he had orbiting station with solar sail or what was it ( kanzure ? )
13:12 mircea_popescu yeah, but you we care about.
13:12 asciilifeform lolk
13:13 * asciilifeform read the magick pike fish tale as a kid, and therefore knows where to stop!111
13:14 asciilifeform ( e.g. don't ask the golden fish to 'explain turbulence!' )
13:16 asciilifeform speaking of 'where to stop', diana_coman i still dunhave a Troo proof that after r - 1 shots, the squaring loop really does always cycle; so unless i find one, i'ma have to put in a mux there.
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13:21 asciilifeform re fishes -- ru folklore notably contains ~2~ wish-granting fish stories : 1, the internationally familiar one, where old fishwife keeps ramping up the wishitude until she overflows the register and gets fucked; and ~other~, where young lad knows how to use the fish, and gets half of kingdom , via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841561 process
13:21 a111 Logged on 2018-08-14 20:45 asciilifeform: btw the orig folktale included mega-line 'and many did the stove crush as it went'
13:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841558 << illustrated.
13:21 a111 Logged on 2018-08-14 20:45 asciilifeform: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7e/22/01/7e2201f558d42e467cc35c278b211882--stoves-fairytale.jpg << '80s ver
13:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: dun fughet to link to prikoke, also, asciilifeform still wont cry, promise.
13:38 mircea_popescu lmao. you know, many have tried, none have yet succeeded in guessing as much as a title, as much as a sentence, afore i publish my brew.
13:38 asciilifeform this is as it should be.
~ 33 minutes ~
14:11 feedbot http://trilema.com/2019/the-three-watches/ << Trilema -- The three watches
~ 15 minutes ~
14:27 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-26#1890228 sadly I don't have proof for it
14:27 a111 Logged on 2019-01-26 18:16 asciilifeform: speaking of 'where to stop', diana_coman i still dunhave a Troo proof that after r - 1 shots, the squaring loop really does always cycle; so unless i find one, i'ma have to put in a mux there.
14:28 mircea_popescu induction, neh ? if it cycles k times how's it to stop cycling.
~ 22 minutes ~
14:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: to reformulate: need proof that the working reg will never equal 1 or n - 1 ~after~ r - 1 shots.
14:51 asciilifeform ( unless it did so during the 1st r - 1 . )
14:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2019/the-three-watches/#comment-127588
15:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you were looking for a 'k vs r -strategy' illustration, this is prolly the worst possible 1. i'dve used , e.g., 'columbus send 3 $maxint boats but vikings did same with 9000 dragonheads costing ~epsilon ea.' or sumthing like it.
15:02 asciilifeform iirc we ~did~ have a thread where 'why didn't they make a chronometer that can be stuffed up arse, for constant temp' tho.
15:06 mircea_popescu answer't.
15:09 asciilifeform answr't^2.
15:09 diana_coman ahaha, I refrained from commenting because I thought "uhm, I have NO idea exactly HOW were those watches broken" but my first thought was that they were likely unpredictably broken i.e. each will show ~random hour rather than "time with x error"
15:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: to reformulate -- in order for redundancy to do anyffin (whether yer dealing with clocks, or RNGs, or any other instrument) the error gotta be ~uncorrelated~ b/w the units
15:15 mircea_popescu reformulate there if ye will ?
15:15 asciilifeform aite, 1s
15:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: done
15:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-17#1614928 << a++ vintage ref on subj, btw
15:26 a111 Logged on 2017-02-17 04:27 phf: re "apprentice as watchmaker" i picked up first edition of The Marine Chronometer by Gould. i would call it "delightful"
15:27 asciilifeform ( and additionally http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754462 apropos )
15:27 a111 Logged on 2017-12-19 18:13 phf: i supper proper presentation of fg schematics in a v-tron is either in the style of the marine chronometer book i have next to me or not at all. "taking first the essentials, c is the escape wheel. the escapement consists of the bar E, carrying the two projections e, e' etc". everything else ought to be handled separately
15:29 mircea_popescu (fwiw, i got trilema comments on feedbot 's rss, so it notifies me if/when anyone says something)
15:30 asciilifeform answ^3.
15:30 asciilifeform aaah ok
15:30 asciilifeform i'ma not pollute the log then.
15:40 mircea_popescu diana_coman if you think about it, that's strictly impossible. they do indeed show delta time each tick, so it's dead reckoning. how the heck would they produce strictly random time.
~ 21 minutes ~
16:01 * asciilifeform brb,meat
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
17:10 mircea_popescu awww
~ 31 minutes ~
17:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: last comment has jpg link, sits in modqueue
17:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for thread-completeness - same jp folx (and others) also sell a temp-controlled 'oven' xtal, warrantied to 1 ppm. these draw lotsa current, comparatively, and cost 50x moar, so i did not use in FG ( where the accuracy of the oscillator is solely to put out the expected baud rate, and it dun do any good to make it substantially higher than the receiving machine's )
17:50 asciilifeform i use'em ('txco' being the generic term for subj) in radio.
17:50 asciilifeform https://www5.epsondevice.com/en/products/tcxo < subj.
17:52 asciilifeform incidentally, even txco has high enuff 'jitter' that fairly good rng can and has been built solely from'em.
17:54 asciilifeform ( the problem with doing so, is the 'aging' effect -- the amt of jitter tends to vary as time passes; and the fact of it being a rather expensive means of collecting thermal noise, resistor worx very similarly and costs 1% of what xtal costs )
~ 15 minutes ~
18:09 * asciilifeform bbl:maffs
18:22 Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-26#1890218 << I finally got job offer yesterday
18:22 a111 Logged on 2019-01-26 18:07 asciilifeform: !#seen Mocky
18:24 Mocky by the looks of it, will go approx 4 days without food money before first paycheck, so this was cut pretty close
18:24 Mocky which means mooching off family, not actual hunger btw
~ 51 minutes ~
19:16 mircea_popescu well, what doesn't starve you edifies you or how did it igo.
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