#trilema | 2019-01-27

04:16

mircea_popescu, perhaps re clocks though I keep thinking that the cheap ones were as clocks as current smartphones are computers

04:17

diana_coman

Mocky_, congrats; I guess.

04:29

mircea_popescu

well, for a long time the movements in cheap and expensive clocks were ~same, with mostly a difference of fineness, precision of machining, to distinguish them.

04:30

mircea_popescu

much like lenses, really, the difference between a very expensive and a very cheap glass wasn't substantial, both made of polished glass. but much different in implementation, made of complicatedly boiled glass hand polished over months or not.

04:30

mircea_popescu

this is obviously an approximation, and it holds as well as it holds. but what can you do.

~ 3 hours 44 minutes ~

08:15

diana_coman

I suppose the argument is that they still were the same thing i.e. that the fineness & precision differences were not so crucial as to make the result essentially something else; I can see it as such and fwiw that'd have been the default way to see it - if not for all the experience of "things that people call X and supposedly is made out of same things as X but different in implementation"

08:15

diana_coman

anyways, I'm not pushing this strongly as "this is how I actually think it was" - as I said previously, I don't think I know enough to have much to say either way

~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~

10:23

04:16	diana_coman	mircea_popescu, perhaps re clocks though I keep thinking that the cheap ones were as clocks as current smartphones are computers
04:17	diana_coman	Mocky_, congrats; I guess.
04:29	mircea_popescu	well, for a long time the movements in cheap and expensive clocks were ~same, with mostly a difference of fineness, precision of machining, to distinguish them.
04:30	mircea_popescu	much like lenses, really, the difference between a very expensive and a very cheap glass wasn't substantial, both made of polished glass. but much different in implementation, made of complicatedly boiled glass hand polished over months or not.
04:30	mircea_popescu	this is obviously an approximation, and it holds as well as it holds. but what can you do.
		~ 3 hours 44 minutes ~
08:15	diana_coman	I suppose the argument is that they still were the same thing i.e. that the fineness & precision differences were not so crucial as to make the result essentially something else; I can see it as such and fwiw that'd have been the default way to see it - if not for all the experience of "things that people call X and supposedly is made out of same things as X but different in implementation"
08:15	diana_coman	anyways, I'm not pushing this strongly as "this is how I actually think it was" - as I said previously, I don't think I know enough to have much to say either way
		~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~
10:23	asciilifeform	guten morgen mircea_popescu , diana_coman
10:23	*	diana_coman waves
10:25	asciilifeform	i cannot resist to throw some petrol in the clocks fire : in the national museum in washingtonistan, i saw a matchbox-sized (1990s) device claiming to be miniaturized cesium clock. why the item aint available for a few bux from middlekingdom, however, remains to me a mystery. ( possibly in fact sham; or possibly some other explanation. )
10:26	asciilifeform	fwiw a standard commercial cesium clock sells 2ndhand for about 2/3 of what bolix did..
10:27	*	asciilifeform doesn't have 1 here, given as never yet perceived any pressing need for such thing
10:28	asciilifeform	https://archive.is/9W8vS << typical subj unit.
		~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
11:55	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Could be China doesn't publish their national security export restricted list?
12:02	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i've nfi
12:10	BingoBoingo	I have no concrete idea, but the gulf in quality between export grade chinese tooling and domestic chinese tooling is suggestive
12:11	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: from experience, i know that one can get decent-quality items built in cn if one simply ~pays for it~
12:12	asciilifeform	the xyz-pnoje-etc people -- do not pay for it, simply.
12:13	BingoBoingo	There's also the excellent Chicom crescent wrench acquired from tienda inglesa which surpases the quality of "crescent" brand crescent wrenches available commercially in USistan
12:14	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: was speaking of the variant where you contact manufacturer and upload toolings etc. and pay. rather than konsoomer retail.
12:15	BingoBoingo	AHA, but still even when china is shitting out products whether or not people ask quality varies and the US does not appear to recieve the best
12:15	asciilifeform	lol wai would it.
12:19	BingoBoingo	Why would Israel, "US Greatest Ally" still be recognzing Maduro in conflict with loud US delusions? Meteorology is an art.
12:20	asciilifeform	lol i missed this
12:21	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I'm digging through stuff and apparently Israel doesn't have a strong opinion on Vzla regime change is the US isn't going to have a strong opinion on Syria regime change seems to be the sentiment.
12:22	mircea_popescu	https://fetlife.com/users/9060666 << meanwhile in items of doubtful interest, "VulpesTwice 20F Domme".
12:22	asciilifeform	lol ben_vulpes ex ?!
12:22	mircea_popescu	muchly doubt it.
12:22	asciilifeform	( twice-ex ??!11 )
12:23	BingoBoingo	Nice uid
		~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~
14:14	asciilifeform	meanwhile, in sneap peeks, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rXJ9o/?raw=true << current draft of m-r litmus.
14:17	asciilifeform	^ corrected in re diana_coman thread; and no longer relies on the squaring limit conjecture mentioned earlier.
14:18	asciilifeform	2.541s / 4096b. input.
14:20	asciilifeform	will be interesting to test on '9000' koch-generated primes, and see if any... aint
14:27	phf	b
14:27	asciilifeform	wb phf