#trilema | 2019-01-28

05:40

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-27#1890343 -> a paper with actual content, ha! though I rather doubt the authors' statement that "the need for careful distinction between non-adversarial (or random) and adversarial primality testing is of course well understood in the cryptographic research community."

05:40

a111

Logged on 2019-01-27 23:14 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rk4Qe/?raw=true << ascii snapshot of same.

05:45

diana_coman

asciilifeform, authors seem to be with some Uni in London still so probably reachable, yes; but it's still an email first anyway, you know?

~ 3 hours 37 minutes ~

09:23

mircea_popescu

entirely ununderstood. wtf is it ?

~ 41 minutes ~

10:04

05:40	diana_coman	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-27#1890343 -> a paper with actual content, ha! though I rather doubt the authors' statement that "the need for careful distinction between non-adversarial (or random) and adversarial primality testing is of course well understood in the cryptographic research community."
05:40	a111	Logged on 2019-01-27 23:14 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rk4Qe/?raw=true << ascii snapshot of same.
05:45	diana_coman	asciilifeform, authors seem to be with some Uni in London still so probably reachable, yes; but it's still an email first anyway, you know?
		~ 3 hours 37 minutes ~
09:23	mircea_popescu	entirely ununderstood. wtf is it ?
		~ 41 minutes ~
10:04	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the 'distinction' ? near as i can tell, it's the 'narrative fiction' where 'you can assume that rng works'. recall the earlier entomo-gem where 'why not use fermat litmus, piano will fall on you before you see carmichael num' etc
10:05	asciilifeform	( http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889868 << subj, for thread-completeness )
10:05	a111	Logged on 2019-01-25 17:21 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'holy fuck, i thought we hit rock bottom but then heard a knock from below' lulz, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mcleod/index.html << 'professor of engineering' tries to argue in favour of old-fashioned , carmichaelizable primality litmus ~instead~ of m-r, on acct of the 'rarity of carmichael #s' .
10:10	asciilifeform	ftr i still dunget what one has to be smoking to use prng ~seeded by N~ as a witness source.
10:13	mircea_popescu	me either, tbh. is this also part of the "well understood distinction" ?
10:13	mircea_popescu	i confess i'm mildly concerned when i don't see these "well understood" shits.
10:14	asciilifeform	i suspect it's exactly like the 'well-understood that you mustn't write own crypto' idjicy.
10:14	mircea_popescu	what the fuck "cryptographic research community", at that ? what's THIS even mean, "cenaclul poetilor judeteni", aka "country poet's club" ?
10:14	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so why the fuck is "amply agreeable" called "well understood".
10:15	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537407 << see also re 'komyoonity'.
10:15	a111	Logged on 2016-09-08 17:31 asciilifeform: the #1 entry is gut-bustingly lulzy to asciilifeform , because i spend ~half year auditing a multilinear-map thing for $rupturefarm, and even was sent to a 'conference' where 'serious cryptographers' did not even blink when someone walked in with a proof that whole thing was crock of shit
10:15	mircea_popescu	there's a difference between well and wide, for fuck's sake. what is this, intellectual fast fooding
10:15	mircea_popescu	but anyway, i nitpick.
10:18	mircea_popescu	it's an incredible role reversal, the past decades wrought, when "our subgroup has special knowledges, making things readily-er obvious to us rather than general public" turned into "our subgroup has special pleadings, making things passed unlaughed at that general public would fall over to hear."
10:19	mircea_popescu	and this dun apply just to special-pleading pseudoscience, either. shitheads all the way down, to http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ and beyond!!!
		~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
11:28	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: iirc we had old thrd, re how cryptography never actually reached escape velocity 'out of alchemy' stage of development
11:36	asciilifeform	( the 1 where 'we dun have a grasp of strong ciphers, outside of von neumann's otp proof; only of weak ciphers' etc )
11:38	asciilifeform	i see a field's infestation with alchemists, astrologers, faith healers, as a ~secondary symptom~ -- of the field not having anyffing like a rational foundation to begin with.
11:39	asciilifeform	guten morgen Mocky
11:39	Mocky	morning
11:40	Mocky	wasn't it shannon with the otp proof?
11:41	asciilifeform	Mocky: iirc there was a newton-leibniz style priority wank
11:41	asciilifeform	possible was shannon 1st
11:41	asciilifeform	( or possibly even that 1 ru d00d, but ~his~ apparently remains seekrit even today )
11:41	Mocky	ahh figures
11:41	asciilifeform	iirc mircea_popescu unearthed even something from 19th c resembling a proof
11:42	asciilifeform	( it's a kindergarten-level proof, so i'd be surprised if it actually had to wait for 20th c )
11:45	asciilifeform	imho newton/leibniz is esp. good parallel here, as even if one takes shannon to be the discoverer, you can't actually build a reasonable otptron without j. von neumann's debiasing method
11:49	asciilifeform	( there is no tree on which grows a physical rng that gives 50/50 1/0 right off the bat, i looked... )
11:51	asciilifeform	for instance, 1 'obvious' approach, 2 geigers equidistant from a capsule of radwaste -- also aint it -- you can never actually make the distances equal. ( it's mircea_popescu's 'clocks' thrd all over again, the 'frictionless horse' is not available )
11:53	asciilifeform	!#s buridan
11:53	a111	9 results for "buridan", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=buridan
		~ 23 minutes ~