Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-05-23 | 2018-05-25 → ↓
00:45 esthlos trinque phf et al: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OYaGd/?raw=true << further steps on the vtron. currently it is freaking out when used with my ccl 1.11.5 . the make-temp-dir function phf provided throws an error on the first invocation, which prevents use as an executable, but oddly the function works if I return to the top level and then call it again.
00:46 esthlos to be clear: prevents use as an executable with ccl. sbcl seems to work fine
00:47 esthlos I'm not free again until Friday evening, so I won't be able to respond or do anything until then
00:51 trinque esthlos: just built it, looks like it's trying to create temp keychains in root
00:51 * trinque will dig deeper
00:51 trinque built it with sbcl
00:52 trinque changed the temp keychain dir to /tmp and hey! successful press!
00:53 trinque fuck yeah.
00:57 esthlos hmm
00:58 esthlos i've notices that the behaivor of sbcl and ccl for make-pathname is slightly different
01:02 esthlos okay, the keychain in root should be fixed now
01:03 esthlos but gotta sleep now. night
01:08 trinque laters
~ 4 hours 33 minutes ~
05:42 ave1 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817627, I think the text is too technical. This is my try: http://ave1.org/planding.html.
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05:42 a111 Logged on 2018-05-23 07:15 ben_vulpes: lobbes, BingoBoingo (and mod6 and asciilifeform, mircea_popescu if he's inclined) here's a draft of the copy for the shared hosting landing page: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PcA2p/?raw=true
~ 3 hours 45 minutes ~
09:27 mircea_popescu in re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817537 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817792 : there are a few dozen accounts advertising western union payments on localbitcoins. the majority of these are neets in orclands trying to live off shaving website-enacted realities (as an alternative to living off freelancer.com / uber.com / etcetera -- it's evidently a lifestyle, the french fries / grocery bagging of 2018).
09:27 a111 Logged on 2018-05-23 04:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, confirmed, not within scope of review.
09:27 a111 Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: but anyway, im off to manage some efforts to research the world for pizarro's benefit inter alia, so bbs.
09:27 mircea_popescu western union expects you to know a magic number ("mtcn", 10 digits) the sender is issued upon sending, and present id. the sender only needs your name and city where you pick up payment. western union will ask you a bunch of inane questions (where you live, who the sender is, how do you know them, what's the money for, etcetera) for which they require no documentation.
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09:27 mircea_popescu the first time you use a piece of id for id they'll also want a photocopy of it, and plenty of "wu locations" are in fact a counter in a pivapollo place somewhere, without a copier (they see no problem with this). about one in ten "wu locations" have not the cash on hand to make payment, and they see no problem with this, either.
09:27 mircea_popescu (i ran 0.1 tests, so about 700 bucks. how a 10`000 sq foot of floor space electronics-and-white-goods specialist can not have made 700 bucks worth of sales by mid day is anyone's fucking guess. here is mine : nobody but me has any money.)
09:28 mircea_popescu you can expect actual payments in your hand in 1 to 2 cases out of ten tries (defining a "try" as having initiated a tx on localbitcoins -- which btw jumps randomly for unclear reasons), worth about 90% of the lulsite price.
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09:28 mircea_popescu you can further expect a strong showing of scammers. these will be variations of "here's something, release payment". in about half the cases these are advanced enough to output some kind of official-looking falsified screenshot / whatever bizarro standards of visual certification of truth they use in their world (no, douchebag didn't come up with the screencapping on his own, it's a thing in his age-peer group, the "proof").
09:28 mircea_popescu a minority are sophistica
09:28 mircea_popescu ted enough to issue a fake "mtcn" (number-password western union expects you to know), try to get you to release payment, and then pretend like they "cancelled" for whatever imaginary reasons when you come to complain western union didn't have it -- a splendid way to waste an hour or so in city traffic.
09:28 mircea_popescu the vast majority of localbitcoin lusers will require ~major~ amounts of decerebrated handholding (indulging them may improve the 1 to 2 in 10 figure quoted above), in the form of incessant messenger-style confirmations and encouragements, "yes really, let's really, we're really doing this" etc etc, easily 20 dribblets / head. the damage wrought on the preteen brain of the contemporary 20something by "smart"phones and "apps"
09:28 mircea_popescu is in full display.
09:28 mircea_popescu in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment.
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09:28 mircea_popescu i would say it is an absolute requirement for pizarro to maintain a localbitcoins account and sink in the required time to build itself a network of known-good users, as these in fact appear to exist, and may constitute humanity candidates / come in useful laterally.
09:34 mircea_popescu currencies other than eur and usd were out of scope for this amusement, though i doubt there's much meaningful existence in the "currencies other than eur and usd" category.
09:44 asciilifeform ty for the experimental work, mircea_popescu !
09:44 mircea_popescu hey, now you know what i mean by intel / how reports look / stuffs and things.
09:45 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817944 << BingoBoingo does have a reliable wu ~emittter~ : we've used it for his meat refuel, since day1
09:45 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 13:27 mircea_popescu: western union expects you to know a magic number ("mtcn", 10 digits) the sender is issued upon sending, and present id. the sender only needs your name and city where you pick up payment. western union will ask you a bunch of inane questions (where you live, who the sender is, how do you know them, what's the money for, etcetera) for which they require no documentation.
09:45 mircea_popescu well yes, but it's a numbers game. what's one buy you.
09:45 mircea_popescu the more gfs you have, the less you care about girls on the rag.
09:46 asciilifeform i mean for receiving. in re the 'some emitters are counters in pivapollo and lack dough'
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09:46 mircea_popescu ah ah.
09:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817947 << does this translate into the losse of 80% of the coin ? or do i misread
09:47 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: you can expect actual payments in your hand in 1 to 2 cases out of ten tries (defining a "try" as having initiated a tx on localbitcoins -- which btw jumps randomly for unclear reasons), worth about 90% of the lulsite price.
09:47 mircea_popescu nah, you lose nothing, there's a green button "release bitcoin" you don't click.
09:48 mircea_popescu well, nothing besides administrative overhead, of course, of course. some of these are cancelled on the spot, some end up disputed, the whole ghostly dance of inexistent items trying to pretend to existence.
09:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, they have an automated escrow thing, see. localbitcoins i mean. here : 1. people tender offers ; 2. you close one ; 3. they either cancel or mark it as satisfied ; 4. you check and either release payment or dispute 3.
09:51 asciilifeform aaaaa
09:51 asciilifeform i gotta rtfm
09:51 mircea_popescu i didn't include a description of how lb works.
09:51 mircea_popescu SO AS TO SAVE SPACE!@!!11
09:51 asciilifeform ok this makes sense.
09:55 mircea_popescu (also, i hope everyone is reading pivopollo correctly as /pɪvopõʎɔ/, yes)
09:55 * asciilifeform can't picture any other reading, lol
09:56 mircea_popescu you never know.
09:58 Mocky for noobs, what does that mean, approx?
10:00 mircea_popescu Mocky, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805477
10:00 a111 Logged on 2018-04-25 04:19 phf: pivo and pollo mexican russian fusion food odessa, tx
10:00 mircea_popescu though i like how you gave up any hope of "what does that mean, no approx" >D
10:01 mircea_popescu bbs putting this into the lexicon.
10:01 Mocky ahh, ty
10:07 mircea_popescu http://ave1.org/planding.html << this is altogether not terrible. if it's not much of a landing page, at least it's clean and legible.
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10:07 mircea_popescu some people even like the engineer-spawned failures at commercial speech ; but seriously now, what THE FUCK do they do in highschool these days ?! the whole point of the exercise, once they gave up teaching anyone anything back in the 70s, was "you go to hs to learn how to talk to girls and businessmen".
10:16 mircea_popescu Mocky, how do you enjoy blogging btw ?
10:18 Mocky I enjoy it very much. It seems worthwhile i guess having something to say.
10:18 mircea_popescu it's pleasant to read, too.
10:18 Mocky thank you
10:21 mircea_popescu and in fetlife lulz today, https://image.ibb.co/d2Hny8/00056803_7191_0ffc_4b0a_89586b312613_958.jpg
10:25 mircea_popescu you'd almost suspect, "whoa, now that's a thinking chick, best landing page ever, bet you she sells all the pot she's trying to". except, of course, no such subtility or sophistication is ever to be suspected online. she's genuinely just https://preview.ibb.co/e6azd8/hurr.jpg -ing about.
10:31 mod6 ave1: Looks like you maybe took your attempt at the Pizarro landing page down?
10:31 mircea_popescu http://ave1.org/planding.html << i see it.
10:32 mircea_popescu mod6, if not archive also has it.
10:34 mod6 ooh, i see the problem, I clicked the link from his posting above, which my browser added the '.' on the end of the .html - this resulted in a 404.
10:34 mod6 Thanks mircea_popescu.
10:35 mod6 ave1: hey, not bad!
10:35 mircea_popescu mod6, as they gain experience linking things people learn not to put punctuation marks after the link >D
10:36 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817939 << I don't think being too technical is necessarily a bad thing, but my own issue with ben_vulpes' original was that a) too 'cheesy' b) too much 'digging' to unearth the selling points. Conversely, I like how ave1's version is straight and to the point (e.g. bullet points of "why Pizarro" are front and center). Good skeleton imo
10:36 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 09:42 ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817627, I think the text is too technical. This is my try: http://ave1.org/planding.html.
10:38 mircea_popescu there's technical writing and there's commercial copy writing, much like there's technical drawing and pornography. crumb (if you ever saw the footage of his interacting with his estranged son), is imo the best example of the evanescent item here under discussion : the old man ~tries~ to tell the young squirt what to do, but of course the young'un knows better.
10:41 asciilifeform ave1: yours is imho the best version thus far
~ 52 minutes ~
11:34 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817962 << Perk of having Cambios on every corner in a cash heavy economy.
11:34 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 13:46 asciilifeform: i mean for receiving. in re the 'some emitters are counters in pivapollo and lack dough'
11:35 * BingoBoingo would like to see Mocky blog hit the RSS
11:38 trinque I'd be happy to add it, but spyked, how's your rss bot coming along?
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11:39 BingoBoingo !!v 7AE998500B4D88D5DF67AD02D22F14F17FE8DF83BD576F775A6FE75AD4CBFFB0
11:39 deedbot BingoBoingo rated Mocky 1 << New Blood, blogs and insights
11:51 mircea_popescu it's mostly eulora stuff to date, you can see it in #eulora
11:55 BingoBoingo I've just been plugging in the url and bingereading
11:59 trinque mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/h99G4/?raw=true
12:00 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/que-he-hecho-yo-para-merecer-esto/ << Trilema - Que he hecho YO para merecer esto ?
12:00 mircea_popescu ^ very recommended btw. one of the best films ever.
12:00 mircea_popescu ty trinque
12:01 trinque my pleasure
12:02 ben_vulpes http://archive.is/S1lfr << methinks the lady doth protest too much
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12:02 mircea_popescu heh.
12:03 mircea_popescu the "read something in #trilema and got moving" part '''inexplicably''' missing from jewonline.today.
12:04 * mircea_popescu suspects alf will be nothing short of thrilled to discover he now has the power to shape usg "law enforcement" policy.
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12:05 mod6 I think I caught BB's cold. :[
12:06 mircea_popescu sharing hussies ?
12:06 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: standby for qntra input
12:07 mod6 heheh.
12:07 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Ty
12:07 ben_vulpes btw thanks ave1
12:07 BingoBoingo mod6: Got crackling in the lungs or just a very wet nose?
12:08 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Standing by
12:10 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo, btw, did you actually come out of it back to health ?
12:10 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I did indeed
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12:10 mircea_popescu glad ot hear.
12:10 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hqUa8/?raw=true
12:10 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/05/existence-of-big-botnet-made-from-small-routers-announced/ << Qntra - Existence Of Big Botnet Made From Small Routers Announced
12:11 mircea_popescu that was some primo quality standby-ing!
12:11 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: the first day I felt compeltely relieved was ironically the day before I formally affiliated with a hospital here
12:11 asciilifeform ugh BingoBoingo
12:11 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Coincidence
12:11 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i just sent you a moar detailed piece on same
12:12 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: This can be handled
12:12 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: at your option, run new piece, and replace my 'cisco' link with yours
12:12 trinque lol
12:13 trinque RAID1 n00z
12:13 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818018 << i'm quite certain that they will have a show trial or two for 'putin's wreckers' who 'manipulated the price upward'
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12:13 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 16:04 mircea_popescu suspects alf will be nothing short of thrilled to discover he now has the power to shape usg "law enforcement" policy.
12:13 asciilifeform ( manipulation downward, of course, is from their pov god's work )
12:14 mircea_popescu hey ; be that as it may it's still more than what trump managed to date.
12:14 asciilifeform 'spreading -- works'(tm)(r)
12:15 mircea_popescu anyway, the "up" and "down" may not be as firmly manifest as you personally imagine. postmodernism is bizarro world, up is down, they say hello when they leave...
12:19 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 'esearchers' -> 'researchers' ?
12:19 asciilifeform unveilled -> unveiled
12:19 BingoBoingo asciilifeform et al, the remedy: http://qntra.net/2018/05/existence-of-big-botnet-made-from-small-routers-announced/
12:19 asciilifeform err, unveil
12:19 BingoBoingo ty fxd
12:20 asciilifeform ty.
12:21 mod6 <+BingoBoingo> mod6: Got crackling in the lungs or just a very wet nose? << got the throat tickle and the coughing is starting.
12:21 mod6 usgbola
12:22 BingoBoingo lol
12:22 mod6 these people make me sick
12:22 mircea_popescu oh i forgot to mention -- yest as i was moving about town somebody shot up the mexican embassy here
12:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: admittedly knowing nuffin but what i can see through my telescope, all i see in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818015 is yet another moar explicit tightening of the noose
12:22 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 16:02 ben_vulpes: http://archive.is/S1lfr << methinks the lady doth protest too much
12:23 asciilifeform hm what's the use in shooting up an embassy
12:23 mod6 mircea_popescu: heavily?
12:23 mod6 or just like "pop-pop, chinga tu madre."
12:23 mircea_popescu italian not mexican, sorry (they're next to each other). and yes some deds.
12:23 mircea_popescu http://qcostarica.com/one-dead-another-wounded-in-shooting-outside-the-italian-embassy-in-san-jose/
12:23 mod6 ah.
12:27 asciilifeform seems like there was a specific target, tho, rather than 'embassy'
12:27 asciilifeform (from above item, at least)
12:27 mircea_popescu possibru, yeah.
12:27 mod6 yeah, assassination.
12:28 mod6 unless he really just didn't like the guys shoes.
12:28 mircea_popescu or the venezoelana moving up in the world.
12:29 asciilifeform re upstack -- hey mircea_popescu , recall http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-08#1193376 ? i suspect that near-fyootoor usg-'regulated' 'market' will consist of 1 counter where wintel stock is dealt, where 'you can only buy' (or stand accused of 'manipulation', and another counter where bitcoin 'you can only sell' (or ditto), lol
12:29 a111 Logged on 2015-07-08 17:08 mircea_popescu: mod6 "our free market is this thing you can only buy!!1"
12:29 BingoBoingo There's so many embassies in this city if there were shootings outside the slums they would just about have to be in front of an embassy.
12:30 mircea_popescu it's how the soviets did it, isn't it ? in that brief interval between when they died and when they fell.
12:30 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo, shootings outside of slums is a little like shittings outside of bathroom.
12:30 BingoBoingo Hey, both happen here.
12:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: maybe in moar 'western' sovblok places like ro, with the 'tehnologia navigatiei cu vele' tricks. in proper su, economy was sufficiently 'demonetarized' that nothing directly comparable afaik existed.
12:31 BingoBoingo Just not as frequently as back home
12:31 mircea_popescu i doubt that. what was the black market dollar rate in 1985 moscow ?
12:34 * asciilifeform can't give a decently accurate answer, wasn't there
12:34 asciilifeform 'exchange' is possibly wrong q tho, what's it mean to have 'exchange rate' when the local orc coin dun buy much
12:34 asciilifeform in whatever qty
12:35 mircea_popescu ro was about 100 lei to the dollar, making the avg salary then about $30 or so. (per month, about 1/30 or so of us average salary at the time).
12:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, local coin does always buy ~something~. drujba, whatever it may buy.
12:35 asciilifeform well sometimes all it buys is nth copy of 'navigatiei cu vele', lol
12:36 asciilifeform ( are these to be assessed as pulp ? ...firewood ? )
12:36 mircea_popescu exactly like "what does dolalr buy today" ? "well, if you disperse it enough, it buys you some inept wrangling from local orcs". exctly like how $1mn does not buy you much ; but if you break it into $20 chunks you can have "marketing online" "services" from retarded university-of-maryland-criminlogy whores,
12:36 mircea_popescu just so a chunk of rubles bought nothinmg, but if broken into small eno9ugh chunks it bought you say state secrets.
12:37 mircea_popescu it's always going to be a purely aribtrary market created by authority fiart, whether it's "write this string on your tits" or "tell me the string yulyiana has written on her tiots"
12:37 asciilifeform rright, the abstraction where money is a scalar and the operations commute, associate, and transpose, is a peacetime thing
12:37 mircea_popescu rather, a "i don't know how to write sales copy" thing.
12:40 mircea_popescu anyway, the one thing the soviets (all of them) did well was confound the issue. see, because "not consumer but industrial economy", various industrial goods were significantly cheaper, and all sorts of consumer goods significantly more expensive, than in "real world" of reagan thatcher and friends.
12:41 mircea_popescu consequently, some at least cursory argument could be had that the price signals are substantially enough different to not be comparable (and god only knows how many man-hours the inept "intel" services of the firm of r, t & f spent trying to discern if official ruble is .5 or 4 to 1 dollars TRULY.)
12:42 asciilifeform prolly similarly wasted hrs as gorby & friends tried to discern 'how many dollar is ruble TRULY'
12:43 mircea_popescu they had a comparatively easier time, seeing how they had much better control on trade.
12:43 mircea_popescu democracy has well documented troubles controling what people buy. soviets... hey, only state could buy anything anyway.
12:43 mircea_popescu stalin says "4:1 because 14:1 is ridiculous", that's what it is.
12:43 asciilifeform ( internal mechanics of ruble is a tall bag of lulz about which not errything even today is known. but there were several ~independently-circulating subspecies . one of which technically existed until even 2010 or so ! )
12:44 asciilifeform ^ speaking of ~su~ ruble specifically
12:44 mircea_popescu anyway, but yes, the principal reason ru had a relatively easy time in the 80s (unlike, say, 2015s argentina) is because VERY LITTLE dollars in private hands.
12:44 mircea_popescu which is why it's important to keep the influx going.
12:45 mircea_popescu (and yes it was a crime to own bitcoins for soviet citizek.)
12:45 asciilifeform recall hruschev's retroactive death sentence for the gold peddlers.
12:46 asciilifeform !#s rokotov
12:46 a111 0 results for "rokotov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rokotov
12:46 asciilifeform hm.
12:47 asciilifeform hmm is there no english ver of this anywhere..?!
12:48 asciilifeform holy FUCK they turned 'rokotov & fainberg' into... a jeans brand in usa
12:48 mircea_popescu (anyway, for documentary lulz : once the russkis introduced a vague approximation of an interbank currency market in 1991, the volumes traded were in the 10mn range. this is ALL THE DOLLARS IN THE COUNTRY. think.)
12:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, what else ? usa, where ideas go to die.
12:51 mircea_popescu and also : no real interdependence of price and supply. generally, when the supply increased the price also increased ; while when the supply dropped, the price also dropped.
12:52 asciilifeform the latter sounds like symptom of 'nope, not a market, but some d00d pushing it'
12:53 mircea_popescu rather, it's a symptom of rarity. the currency function of a good depends on some contextual properties ; if there's few enough dollars in the country, the dollar bill is less money and more... artwork, say. becomes a kind of stamp.
12:53 mircea_popescu in order for something to be money it must be "at least this common" ; much like in order for locusts to swarm they must be touched at least this often by other locusts.
12:54 asciilifeform right, makes sense
12:57 mircea_popescu moreover, currency collapse is always driven by naggum's idiots ("in order to be in a position where one must either strike or die, one must have put themselves into such a position, for instance by expecting to buy a lot of things they cou;dn't make"). the camp/blackface duality ( http://trilema.com/2017/pronouncements-on-camp/#selection-161.66-161.165 ) is very much apropos : without a "nouveau riche" class, ie, without a b
12:57 mircea_popescu unch of http://trilema.com/2017/in-case-you-were-wondering-where-all-the-worthless-nuland-drones-ended-up/ missionaries, there can be no explosive devaluation.
12:58 mircea_popescu this is the deep issue uniting "rock and roll in the soviet union" with "malinche, lover of hernan cortes" : without a ~well connected local~ to spit on the local items, there can not be a serious devaluation of them.
12:58 mircea_popescu the key ingredient for the "shovel-and-wheelbarrow" mark in germany isn't so much the paper itself, as it is the individuals who'd have traded "all of this" for "any little of that".
12:59 asciilifeform iirc this imaginary spirit that flies away from the wheelbarrow mark/ruble , the chinese called 'mandate of heaven'
13:00 mircea_popescu can be, yes. but in any case -- there's no such thing as blackface devaluation. blackface is ALWAYS a camp phenomenon.
13:00 mircea_popescu i'm sorry. i mean, ~devaluation~ is always a camp phenomenoin.
13:01 mircea_popescu also, understand the very informative self-destructive pattern that became evident in dying su and was by all appearences well understood by "western world", judging at least by how they keep trying to apply it :
13:03 mircea_popescu suppose you have the following elements : I[ndustry], producing goods whichg can be exported and needing materials and equipment to be imported ; and P[opulace], expecting to be paid a living wage (anyone's pretense to the contrary are idle, all the advanced socialist peons want or ever wanted was "cash for being here", that'\s why socialist states even exist or ever existed, to provide that, from napoleonic france onward) an
13:03 mircea_popescu d to be able to spend it.
13:03 mircea_popescu now, the needs of I are relatively fixed ; the "needs" of P vary. should P decide that it only wants import goods, you may be tempted to create a "tourist" rate for the foreign currency
13:04 mircea_popescu should you do that, you'll have a directly addressable measure of wrecking : the Ps will push the TR above the level where I can finance its import needs out of the receipts for its exports.
13:05 mircea_popescu this is called "inefficiency", but it's not industrial inefficiency, it's socially-mediated pseudo-inefficiency created by the Ps deliberately (if "unknowingly") choking out I because they;'ve decided they want their country dead.
13:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: oh hey is this what was behind the 'viermi neadormiti' remark ??
13:05 mircea_popescu i said before that the principal question of the 80s was "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, "but is it made here ?". this'd be why.
13:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, ayup.
13:06 mircea_popescu the people involved weren't ~stupid~, see. notwithstanding what the officious jews "all agreed".
13:06 * asciilifeform can see with unarmed eye that they weren't
13:07 mircea_popescu now, the "creation" of "ethereum" is entirely out of the playbook of clinton "bringing rock'n'roll dollars to moscow" or mp bringing dollars to buenos aires etc.
13:07 mircea_popescu the only unexpected element is the discovery that the population of fucktards ~wasn't actually relevant~ for the republic.
13:08 asciilifeform iirc mircea_popescu had an old piece about the mechanics of dope 'pushing' . where 'pusher' ~creates~, rather than satisfies (as per classical economic model a merchant might) appetites
13:08 mircea_popescu otherwise, same processes were supposed to work the same way ; and most of the peripheral agents not in the "need to know" bubble are even to thsi day claiming they worked as supposed.
13:08 asciilifeform this is (uncontroversially) how su brass saw the proverbial 'import jeans'
13:09 mircea_popescu of course it is. much like anyone with head out of ass sees apple as apple. wtf would they have seen it as.
13:09 asciilifeform or for that matter, summed up in 'сегодня ты играешь джаз а завтра родину продашь'(tm)(r)
13:10 asciilifeform ('today you're playing jazz, tomorrow you'll be selling out your motherland')
13:10 mircea_popescu anyway. so the rate that'd have allowed soviet industry a positive epsilon return on capital goods was cca 10-20:1 in 1992 (depending how and what you sort) and the "tourist rate" was 60:1. bingo.
13:10 mircea_popescu "i wonder why" etc.
13:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, this understanding nevertheless does NOT relieve the soviet brass from having had to and having failed to either a) produce something alternatative for them to sing or b) shoot them all, a la maduro.
13:12 asciilifeform i still suspect that it would not have been winnable even if closer game ratiowise; it went almost like the smallpox-vs-indians item. orc konsoomer had no immune cells against veblenism and 200+yrs of fine chumpatronics perfected in the west
13:12 mircea_popescu either of which is a perfectly acceptable solution, but one of which MUST always be deployed.
13:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, kinda why we have the negrate mechanism. cheap and effectual, better than any kalash.
13:13 mircea_popescu and kinda why they're stuck with the "legitimacy" mechanism, "gadaffi is not the legitimate owner of syria"
13:13 mircea_popescu or i'm sorry, venezuela, what was it. france.
13:13 asciilifeform hey they also had it, at one point the l1 got together and all went ;;rate -1 hruschev old fart
13:13 asciilifeform (spoiler -- didn't help)
13:14 mircea_popescu understand though -- they were ALL WHISPERERS.
13:14 mircea_popescu they never fucking sat down to speak the truth.
13:14 asciilifeform supposedly they did. but their logs ~to this day~ seekrit.
13:15 mircea_popescu and you're thinking of the wrong side of this. nevermind -1 hruschev. think -1 yuri derpopovich herpopov. all 50 mn of them. not "prevent emigration", but dump at sea ~everyone.
13:15 mircea_popescu lose 90% of the population over a five year plan.
13:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, isn't "secret logs" === whisperers ?
13:16 asciilifeform i usually picture 'whisperers' as , graphtheoretically, a noncomplete clique
13:16 asciilifeform whereas 'secret ck-kpss log' presumes ~complete
13:16 mircea_popescu i just see it as wankers, the sort that could participate but doesn't.
13:16 asciilifeform but wanking together in circle jerk, or pairwise.
13:16 mircea_popescu matters ?
13:17 asciilifeform imho they're usefully separable species
13:17 mircea_popescu anyway --- if i ran the moscow polytechnic, the advertisement would have been "either make it in the 1% or else we will paradop you in america, or whatever other african shithole you belong to".
13:17 mircea_popescu and then enforced it.
13:18 mircea_popescu the ~punishment~ for ~failure~ to perform exceptionally well would have been a one way ticket to jeansland.
13:18 mircea_popescu and fucking stay there.
13:18 asciilifeform in this picture, who plows/sows/reaps/works conveyors/guards gulag fence ? martians ?
13:18 mircea_popescu machinery / imports.
13:18 mircea_popescu nobody says the land must be worked. fucking hunt.
13:19 asciilifeform ( stalin had the 'purge excess meat' thing down to fine art, but he never approached 20% much less 90 )
13:19 asciilifeform lol hunt. and hunt wild tank and wild uranium on the hoof, yes
13:19 mircea_popescu he didn't live in a world where this was possible. but by 1980 -- eminently doable.
13:20 asciilifeform the populous neighbours overrun you, game ends, gotta restart civ1...
13:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, you are sitting there seriously proposing to me that a man-and-his-bushels uranium mining op is more productive than a mechanized item ?
13:20 mircea_popescu bs.
13:20 mircea_popescu if populace was the criteria, should have applied for admission as chinese ssr in 1972.
13:21 mircea_popescu but populace eminently is not the criteria, which is why the "totally not a dating site" "community" of fetlife can't stand up to... me.
13:21 asciilifeform they sorta did apply, when they ~stopped breeding
13:21 asciilifeform chinese ssr is ~reality today.
13:22 asciilifeform incidentally, 'tiny but clever population standing up to maxint orcs by way of robot and deathray' is ~the~ american geofantasy; isn't working out so well for them
13:22 mircea_popescu yes it is. but the argument presented is specious in either reading -- there's no "neighbours overrun", and if there is -- the proposed measures did nothing about it.
13:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, because they're not at ALL serious about "clever".
13:22 mircea_popescu when's the last time a bearer of us passport confronted a "be this tall or die" dilemma ?
13:22 asciilifeform conceivably this is a 'sufficiently smart compiler'(tm)(r) item.
13:23 mircea_popescu because ro kids did -- various hung selves 18yo females can attest. and it is the ~only reason romania is ever mentioned by name this century.
13:23 mircea_popescu understand, such a thing as teenage female suicide is not known in classical works. it only appears once the need for the pressure to perform appears, at high enough tech densities.
13:24 asciilifeform jp teenagers self-checkout in packs, erry yr at exam week. jp still sinking into deep hole of sad.
13:24 mircea_popescu yes. girlies are doing their job, society is failing them.
13:24 mircea_popescu understand, antrhiopology is not optional, this isn't some kind of elective course. in year X, Y must be done. "not doing it" isn't meaningful -- Y' will still be done, with shitty results.
13:25 asciilifeform noshit
13:25 mircea_popescu whether you go "everyone takes exam, bottom 10% get hung by those poles in schoolyard" or you go "nobody has to do anything and i can't explain all this cutting and anorexia", it makes entirely no difference.
13:25 mircea_popescu the girlies need to hang ; they know this.
13:26 asciilifeform sorta why cherokee-style 'let's hunt' doesn't work , the folx who can fly choppers will pick you off, leisurely, with thermovisor and downward flechette rounds right through the tree cover.
13:26 mircea_popescu that "person in charge" doesn't know this, speaks as to the incredible decay of explicit understanding -- by the time you lack the words and preformed expressions to describe necessity you've fallen into pre-literate times ; unequal to herodotus.
13:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i think you misunderstood the "let's hunt".
13:27 asciilifeform possibly
13:27 mircea_popescu what have you eaten today ?
13:27 asciilifeform bread+roquefort
13:27 asciilifeform and a cuppa tea
13:28 asciilifeform and i think that's it
13:28 asciilifeform why
13:28 mircea_popescu and you bought these at supermarket ?
13:28 asciilifeform the bread, baked here
13:28 mircea_popescu alright. now consider this extension :
13:29 mircea_popescu instead of you having to contend with 5mn other idiots trying to live in the same state ; you have to contend with only 50k. as a result, all real estate available consists of plots in excess of 50 acres, which include a creek, and forest. goes for the same price as you pay now, but it is what it is.
↖ ↖
13:29 mircea_popescu once a week or when you feel like, you don your hunt gear and go out shoot a dear phasant whatever.
13:29 mircea_popescu same girl that made the bread now, makes the bread then.
13:29 asciilifeform aaa so we're talking about cranking back to , idk, 1870
13:30 mircea_popescu does this arrangement, with your private cheese cellar etc, connote some kind of techno-weakness on your part ?
13:30 mircea_popescu no, we're not talking to cranking back.
13:30 mircea_popescu we're simply talking of killing most everyone, and using the space like people rather than like rats.
13:30 asciilifeform not unless and until world war and it's time to send waves of surplus males over barbed wire
13:30 mircea_popescu and why the fuck would you do that.
13:30 asciilifeform and to stamp out a plane erry 40 min
13:31 mircea_popescu you can stamp a plane every 40min BY YOURSELF in your house
13:31 asciilifeform why? because neighbours started the party, why.
13:31 mircea_popescu see, that's the meaning of stalin-couldn't, by 80s, feasible.
13:31 mircea_popescu today it's fucking trivial, wtf, make planes, what's to keep you.
↖
13:31 asciilifeform i dun have a molybdenum mine in house. or the rest, etc
13:31 mircea_popescu joe from two states down has.
13:32 mircea_popescu same thing you say, can and is said by today's neet. "i don't have microscope in house lel"
13:32 mircea_popescu sure, you don't. the reason you don't is cuz you didn't put one in. nothing else.
13:33 asciilifeform joe from two states down can't agree on the price. and we both get encircled and hang. or he's using his moly to make kitchen knives to sell to orcs , it's +ev for him, he thinks. or, other possible variants.
13:33 mircea_popescu why the fuck would you even need a price, you're friends.
13:33 mircea_popescu he's in your wot, how couldn't he not be.
13:34 asciilifeform let's suppose. now it's time to mine, and transport. he does with own hands? with army of self-maintaining and self-replicating robots from yr 3000 ? or which.
13:34 mircea_popescu the trashing the orclands get at our hands every fucking time we deign to rape them is not enough model of how this'd go ? joe from two states down will just send you some free molybdenum because fuck those orcs, and besides, you gave him a painting last year
13:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, what fducking own hands, are you kidding me ?! NO ORC TODAY WORKS!!!! you understand thids ?!
13:35 mircea_popescu they're all in "government" offices going "Gimme" in a chorus. what fucking "hands" ?
13:35 mircea_popescu peon hands haven't seen a stitch of honest work in decades.
13:35 asciilifeform sometimes i wonder whether mircea_popescu is posting from a far alt-fyootoor where software actually works, where robots actually maintain selves, rather than being the end product of 500 people working around the clock, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-26#935358
13:35 a111 Logged on 2014-11-26 06:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it. much like your finger cannot function for long or very usefully unless attached to the rest of you << so very aptly put.
13:35 mircea_popescu no, you do it with machinery, as everything everywhere. that's what "modern" means, that the per-capita productivity is not actually finite.
13:35 mircea_popescu 'per-capita' being an entirely menaingless, baseless non-notion.
13:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, if you think the robots are maintained by orcs...
13:36 mircea_popescu how does this work ? is your code written by chickens, too ?
13:37 asciilifeform ever see photos of factory in cn ?
13:37 mircea_popescu no item that works, now or ever, was produced through ANY OTHER MEANS than the you-joe method discussed above. not EVER.
13:37 mircea_popescu some of the things that don't work don't work because no you/joe, and some don't work because IN SPITE of you-joe there werealso some orcs involved.
13:37 mircea_popescu but that's it.
13:37 asciilifeform this is not the point of disagreement; rather the 'gigantic populations are obsolete' item
13:38 mircea_popescu dude i couldn't care less what chinese are trying to emulate white man working economy on.
13:38 mircea_popescu robotization is a fact ; modern factories don't need workers ; and the robots are not made by fucking hand, no.
13:38 mircea_popescu so...
13:39 asciilifeform it is entirely troo that 500 mn ameri-derps who know only how to press tv remote button, are of little use against 5mn actual people. but 500mn actual people would demolish 5.
13:39 mircea_popescu there's 0 utility to 99% of the us population, in economic terms. there's ~maybe~ some sexual utility in 9%. but 90% can be ablated today and without adverse effects.
13:39 asciilifeform recall fate of germany.
13:39 asciilifeform ( wunderwaffen, somehow, did not help. )
13:39 mircea_popescu stalin era.
13:40 mircea_popescu there's a very sharp chance in 1980, which is why "the 80s".
13:40 mircea_popescu change*
13:41 asciilifeform errybody loves the theoretical possibility, of 'robot army'; but afaik the problem of 'self-copying robot' (specifically iron, vs meat) was posed by von neumann and remains exactly in same place today as where he left it.
13:43 mircea_popescu why would this be related ?
13:43 asciilifeform it's entailed by the 'infinite leverage from finite hands with machinery' item.
13:44 mircea_popescu it is not. consider -- i can (even thouigh ben_vulpes apparently can't) spin up endless instances of whatever boxen, notwithstanding "such a thing as the self-packing os was posed by neumann and stays where it was posed" bla bla.
13:45 mircea_popescu other than this, "infinite" is not required. just a large enough factor, but 9 digits are far from "infinity"
13:45 asciilifeform anything whatsoever is possible, and with the illusion of infinity, if somebody else does the work.
13:49 asciilifeform ( possibly side item : not sure which ben_vulpes item is being referred to ; rockchip trivially copies own os to fresh unit as many times as you like )
13:58 deedbot http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/24/draft-pizarro-shared-hosting-ad-copy/ << Bingo Blog - Draft Pizarro Shared Hosting Ad Copy
13:59 * ben_vulpes reads
13:59 BingoBoingo ^ ben_vulpes My attempt at ad copy
14:08 ben_vulpes looks pretty good to me, BingoBoingo
14:08 asciilifeform it's pretty good; imho ought to also mention colo option
14:09 asciilifeform ( why restrict to marketing ~only~ shared box )
14:09 BingoBoingo It could do with more links to "how to" pages including the most current Republican GPG setup guide
14:10 BingoBoingo Anyways, it is a draft.
14:10 BingoBoingo But the idea is as more offerings happen, (2nd shared account machine, etc) the page structure has room to eat them.
14:12 ben_vulpes gonna work it more or should i pick it up from here? fine starting point i think (will wait for contradiction), i can fill in the details.
14:13 BingoBoingo Well, the thing about ad copy is you gotta have economy of words. Last place you want eyes glazing over is where you are selling.
14:16 ben_vulpes pricing details i mean
14:17 mod6 BingoBoingo: hey, nice job!
14:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i'm just picking on him. but anyway -- very large leverages are in fact both experimentally demonstrated and theoretically predicted. and the "someone else" argument is not germane -- i didn't specify who joe is ; if you object to my presumption that you'd be willing to work by including you, by all means, we could say sally instead. you think that does anything ?
14:20 mircea_popescu hanbot, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JEMEm/?raw=true
14:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun object in re the thermodynamics , but re the kinetics. we ain't there. yet.
14:22 mircea_popescu this is the sort of objection that can only be resolved by historians.
↖
14:22 asciilifeform right.
14:22 mircea_popescu sometime after it's done.
14:22 mircea_popescu "evidently, at tx -- they were there"
14:22 asciilifeform ( recall mao's, when asked 'was french rev a good idea' 'too soon to say' )
↖ ↖
14:22 mircea_popescu meanwhile we can say.
14:23 asciilifeform recall, incidentally, n. tesla's crackpot screen re 'death ray will make small serbia the equal of titan germany and france'
14:23 asciilifeform *screed
14:24 mircea_popescu this is altogether dubious.
14:24 asciilifeform well 'dubious' is a bit soft; there was no deathray
14:26 mircea_popescu and even if there were.
14:27 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818028 << a different outcome would've been historically appropriate
14:27 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 16:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did indeed
14:27 mircea_popescu lol how so ?!
14:28 BingoBoingo Underprepared gringo runs off to orcistan, gets done in not by human hazards, but an ancient killer is what I am guessing
14:29 mircea_popescu ah
14:29 phf no, a lot more generous. representatives of superior civilization land en force anticipating deservedly easy pickings, most of men die from conditions
14:30 BingoBoingo AHA
14:31 phf "month 6 in this godless, accursed land. last night as the fever broke the captain died, since the chaplain died a month ago, the men had to hold service, however sparse it was"
14:32 phf "month 12, i BingoBoingo will marry my daughter and with her start the most pure blood line" etc. etc.
14:33 asciilifeform lol!
14:34 asciilifeform 'the pack ice around our misfortunate vessel presses in, the hull strums like a banjo, lately in a quite martial tone'
14:34 asciilifeform or how did it go
14:46 mircea_popescu nb.
14:47 mircea_popescu phf, is there a lot of romanesque, scifi etcetera work missing from your blog ?
14:52 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818207 << sounds like oklahoma
14:52 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 17:29 mircea_popescu: instead of you having to contend with 5mn other idiots trying to live in the same state ; you have to contend with only 50k. as a result, all real estate available consists of plots in excess of 50 acres, which include a creek, and forest. goes for the same price as you pay now, but it is what it is.
14:55 mircea_popescu danielpbarron, no ; because oklahoma was selected for idiocy over two centuries. you know what brain drain is, yes ?
14:56 mircea_popescu "deserted hinterland" is never approximation of "world depopulated of idiots", because the former is deserted ~because everyone chose to move somewhere else~, and the smart are more capable of enforcing that choice ; whereas the latter is deserted ~because idiots were killed~.
14:56 mircea_popescu so no, eminently not like oklahoma. like soviet-occupied berlin.
14:56 mircea_popescu hence "the rape of berlin".
14:57 danielpbarron that paricular line though, the 50 acres including creek and forest, for same price
14:57 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818220 << http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/ << leaving aside the various herpityderp, this guy absolutely is making an item that flies, and plenty of "experimental aircraft" folks make the same "in garage" all the time
14:57 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 17:31 mircea_popescu: today it's fucking trivial, wtf, make planes, what's to keep you.
14:57 trinque if any of them had the sense to stop at the scale model and make that a drone instead, there you go.
14:57 asciilifeform trinque: d00d makes the engine also ?
14:58 trinque don't you but-anyway me
14:58 asciilifeform no. if we're doing 'can stalin make planes faster than hitler can shoot'em down, using only own minerals' scaling down to garage, you do NOT get to do the '3d printer' enthusiast thing and conveniently exclude copper coils in motors etc.
14:58 asciilifeform all or nothing.
14:59 trinque why do you insist on excluding all economic models but stalin's eh?
14:59 trinque the linked item uses a glorified car engine; these... are available
14:59 mircea_popescu in unrelated lulz, "faleze de nisip" is fucking hysterical for its montage of "man goes to visit den of prostitution after his obnoxious gf gets uppity and moves out".
15:00 mircea_popescu the commie notion of "den of prostitution" as fit to put on film... o brother. RIGHT THERE is why driving TR past any value the idiots could survive is 100% justified.
15:00 asciilifeform trinque: seem to be jet, neh
15:00 trinque nah, this thing has a rear prop
15:00 asciilifeform if it really does fly on toyota engine -- i promise to clap
15:01 mircea_popescu rearprop ?!
15:01 mircea_popescu but but... why ?!
15:01 trinque all I'm pointing to is the c&c milling + carbon fiber process he's using, not the design of the plane
15:02 asciilifeform the wings were 'easy' part of airplane even prior to cnc & fiber.
15:02 mircea_popescu eh, i don't imagine anyone but alf could seriously contemplate the "fabrication difficulties". gimme a break, i can and have bought machining tools that'd have been worth "hal;f the empire" in 1935 for a pittance. they make complex shaped metal sheets, and are cheap as fuck
15:02 mircea_popescu which is why cars stopped looking like 1970s sometime in 1980s.
15:02 asciilifeform ( ww2 japan stood on its legs for 2yr past expiration date on wooden plane wings )
15:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes, because i am the only one here who actually made physical objects in qty, lol
15:03 asciilifeform hence 'only alf seriously could contemplate manufacturing difficulty'
15:03 asciilifeform to errybody else -- yes, seems so easy, why would complain
15:05 trinque rednecks rebuild junkyard engines all the livelong day, if we're seriously imagining that suddenly we're back to grand soviet ideas and only buran makes toilets, space ships, dildos
15:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, no you're not dood, wtf.
15:06 asciilifeform trinque: side q -- does the linked d00d ever explain how he gets the 'audi v6' engine to avoid icing, and to breathe air at altitude ?
15:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes i'm aware that you had b00kz printed
15:06 mircea_popescu by niot going at altitude heh. rearprop.
15:06 asciilifeform ha possibly
15:06 asciilifeform ( why not make chopper, then. could even work. )
15:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, nevermind books printed. i had interests in ~all sorts~ of manufacturers aite ?
15:06 mircea_popescu from building to laminate production.
15:06 trinque they're claiming 25k ft max altitude, as per specs page
15:07 asciilifeform 'have interests' != select-materials-and-design-from-0
15:07 trinque who knows, pretty detailed videos the guy's posting
15:07 asciilifeform but if mircea_popescu says he did -- i'll believe him
15:07 mircea_popescu but also != "has no fucking clue what's going on"
15:07 mircea_popescu has interest ~means "can not be kept out of any space for any reason".
15:07 asciilifeform i did not say 'has no clue'. but observe, 'compains re manufacture difficulty' does happen in proportion to actual involvement with own hands.
15:07 asciilifeform try and see with others.
15:08 mircea_popescu from managerial experience this is very much not a factual point.
15:08 mircea_popescu complaints universally happen in proportion to a certain mental structure.
15:09 asciilifeform rrright because when asciilifeform's fab house sent back proto-FG repeatedly with poor reflow and dud analogue board, asciilifeform complains 'from certain mental structure' and not because imbeciles all the way down like turtles on elephants.
15:10 mircea_popescu the cognitive articulation of the complaint is thus : 1. i understand deeply the trees of implications of a few simple rules (ref http://trilema.com/2018/technology-and-governance/ ) ; 2. i apprehend a novel object and create a mental model for it ; 3. i discover perceptible reality does not play well with the product of 2 ; 4. i complain.
15:10 asciilifeform but yes if FG had been instead commissioned by mircea_popescu in his capacity as vp of mitsubishi, he would never see this . at least not with own eyes, it would show up as http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-07#1733631 factor .
15:10 a111 Logged on 2017-11-07 20:01 asciilifeform: observe, the problem dun exist if you already have your own pyongyang and can happily put a megawatt station there and invite whoever objects, to pound sand up his arse
15:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, yes, specifically, "i expected something else". "but why did you expect ?" "What do you want me to do, sit ?!".
15:11 mircea_popescu this isn't a judgement of value. it's just a description aite ?
15:11 asciilifeform fair'nuff
15:11 mircea_popescu and mircea_popescu only sees this if he asks specifically, because yes, mircea_popescu has friends. so does asciilifeform. everyone only sees some portions.
15:11 asciilifeform err, i put wrong link, lesseeee
15:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434 - factor.
15:12 a111 Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
15:12 mircea_popescu for instance earlioer -- i was enjoying a bowl of delicious soup made yesterday. kitten slings by, pours herself a bowl too. then she discovers -- a dead beetle in there. it's beetle season, they're crazy. under pemra lights there's an inch thick beetle soil.
15:12 mircea_popescu so now i can't eat my soup anymore. "should i not have said anything ?"
15:13 * asciilifeform has this exact exchange with asciilifeform's pet , regularly
15:13 mircea_popescu so there you go.
15:13 mircea_popescu this doesn't mean bugless soups are impossible ; nor does it mean all soups you ever ate are bugless.
15:13 asciilifeform aha
15:14 mircea_popescu but the statement made, "x -- impossible" is very different from the correct, "x -- will take some doing"
15:14 * asciilifeform possibly gets.
15:14 mircea_popescu and renaming "x -- will take an inordinate amt of doing" as "x -- impossible" is a category error.
15:14 asciilifeform trinque: mostly orthogonally to this thread , your linked airplane maker pattern matches the chilean fortress vapour-scamola
15:15 asciilifeform auto engine not only not built for the type of load ( and , srsly, what will do , gearbox it to the prop ?! ) , but hasn't the redundancies that even in 1920s flyers correctly insisted on ( e.g. two separate magneto )
15:16 mircea_popescu trinque, i have serious reservations re an item with broken design. it's a little bit like reading ancient greek imaginary descriptions of places "they heard exist", i have trouble digesting.
15:16 asciilifeform trinque: your 'cessna' , it has 2 sets of sparks, etc.
15:17 * asciilifeform waits for 'but this is diesel'
15:17 asciilifeform fwiw tupolev ~did~ make a flying diesel. stalin scrapped it, as just-barely-+ev
15:17 mircea_popescu bunker oil.
15:18 asciilifeform diesel cycle has own problems at altitude.
15:18 trinque I proposed the manufacturing process for *drones*
15:18 asciilifeform ( tupolev -- solved. supposedly. but still resulted in massively lower power/mass than petrol engine of the period. )
15:18 trinque in response to whether one man could hit many targets himself
15:18 mircea_popescu trinque, you mean, electric engines or what's drone mean here ?
15:18 asciilifeform trinque: for these, you want motorcycle motor, at most
15:19 trinque semidisposable drones can be built in the garage, was the claim
15:19 asciilifeform trinque: i was digesting the linked item as the product it offers, first
15:19 trinque I said this in the log-line that linked it
15:20 mircea_popescu the claim was rather whether ~enough~ drones of ~sufficient~ quality can be built on short enough interval ~by single person~.\
15:20 asciilifeform trinque: in garage in new york -- yes. in garage in costa rica -- harder. in garage in montevideo -- you have to bring suitcase from newyork...
15:20 mircea_popescu but yes, evidently they can. this was after all the fucking point of even fabricating fgs / getting isp up etc : we CAN, as a factual matter, operate.
15:21 mircea_popescu which means that yes, if tmsr builds a drone assembly line, it will work as designed.
15:21 mircea_popescu and operator will do what operator does and there you go.
15:21 mircea_popescu unlike, say, freenode >D
15:21 asciilifeform lol
15:23 asciilifeform incidentally asciilifeform was going through notebooks and found a theoretical nugget that iirc hasn't been posted. 1w of shortwave, using the error code discussed in prev thread, can propagate trans-continentally ( i.e. easily new york to montevideo ) . and can easily come out of unattended ( solar, thermal-charged ) box , at ~day intervals, hanging from tree in woods, illicitly glued into wall at tower construction site, etc
15:23 mircea_popescu that's the point here. consider 1950s process to make fighter jet. "iron ore is in ground -- must be taken to conveyor belt by hand because no sewing machine sophisticated enough to do this yet" ; then conveyor belted all the way to furnace, but "has to be poured by hand because no machine" ; then "has to be polished by hand because no machine". and so on.
15:24 mircea_popescu MOST of these "need 5000 miners and 3000 forgers and 120 assemblers" etc are gone now.
15:24 asciilifeform -NickServ- Account asciilifeform dropped, forcing logout <<< ?
15:24 trinque are the dashes a fake account?
15:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, they're notoriously bad at erorr messages.
15:24 asciilifeform either that, or goodnight fleanode ?
15:24 mircea_popescu trinque, dashes are a weird sort of pm.
15:24 asciilifeform errybody got it, or just asciilifeform ?
15:25 mircea_popescu just you.
15:25 asciilifeform lol
15:25 trinque looks like I got a few notices about them herping with NickServ
15:25 * mircea_popescu shall bbs.
15:26 trinque mquin (~mike@freenode/staff/mquin): :[Global Notice] Seems that was premature. There are ongoing issues with services that are being looked into - please bear with us << asciilifeform shaping fleanode policy now too!
15:26 shinohai lolz
15:28 asciilifeform we can leave fleanode to the worms and flies , and jump into pizzarro + mircea_popescu's box + wherever else , within a day of mircea_popescu giving signal.
15:28 mircea_popescu i thought you were complaining about having too much work. now not enough ?
15:29 asciilifeform it's a halfhr job.
15:29 mircea_popescu puhleaze.
15:33 mod6 In other we-totally-know-what-we're-doing-news: http://archive.is/8Hun5
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15:34 trinque ahaha
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15:40 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818414 <<< lol mod6, see also http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/abnormal-sound-incident-forces-evacuation-of-us-diplomat-in-china.html for today's lulz
15:40 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 19:33 mod6: In other we-totally-know-what-we're-doing-news: http://archive.is/8Hun5
15:41 asciilifeform shinohai: http://qntra.net/2018/05/us-embassy-staff-member-suffers-alleged-sonic-brain-injury-in-china/
15:41 asciilifeform shinohai: if yer gonna do the 'i have own parallel qntra' thing nao, at least try to 'scoop' the events ~before~
15:42 shinohai ahahaha did not see
15:42 asciilifeform !Q later tell mod6 i get eggog '#trilema-mod6 (Channel is invite only)'
15:42 lobbesbot asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
15:42 shinohai blog is for personal tidbits, in no way meant to parallel qntra
15:44 mircea_popescu o look, all the noobs!
15:45 shinohai anywho, appears air force has graduated from bath salts to more grown-up hallucinogenics
15:45 mircea_popescu "After investigators closed in, one airman deserted to Mexico." << heh
15:48 asciilifeform lol re 'February 2016 photo, members of the 790th Missile Security Forces Squadron demonstrate their training for recapturing a Minuteman missile silo after being taken over by an intruder/attacker'
15:48 asciilifeform because 'intruder/attacker' will do something other than drop a frag in the shaft and leave.
15:49 asciilifeform ( thermite-welding the hatch closed also worx wonders, asciilifeform's father as a grunt in su was trained for, among others, this party trick )
15:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, you don't understand. the principal wank of ustarded princess is that ~someonew wants her useless snatch~.
15:50 mircea_popescu much like byzantines imagined mongols come over to steal the "true cross" because it's so fucking valuable in their eyes. because how couldn't it be. and so on.
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15:50 asciilifeform the land-based rockets are a joke within a joke, even usg assigns the saddest sacks of sads, explicitly, to the detail
15:52 mircea_popescu "nobody cares" might be the hardest thing to grok.
15:53 asciilifeform phunphakt, unlike ye olde su, usg does not station permanent guards around the land launchers; only chain link fence with alarm; there's 1 set of guards per N tubes and they gotta drive to it when bell rings.
15:54 asciilifeform claim is that they're 8min drive away, iirc. ( what happens if >1 tube rings alarm? stop asking, terrorist )
15:55 mircea_popescu do they test the grunts and only admit those who take up the girls for more than 8 mins at a time ?
15:57 asciilifeform i have nfi. they're supposed to have a few choppers, apc's, etc. on top of the usual trucks.
15:59 asciilifeform http://www.warren.af.mil << subj has www even.
15:59 asciilifeform containing, i shit thee not, a twatter feed, even, with words '“The public was never in danger and the safety and security of the Minuteman system was never in doubt,” said Col. Matthew Dillow, 90th Missile Wing vice commander.'
16:00 asciilifeform this ~not~ in re the lsd. but apparently some other lulz, https://archive.li/e7ma7 , where burglar alarm went off.
16:02 asciilifeform 'Senior leaders meet with industry to discuss utilizing artificial intelligence and quantum science throughout the Air Force'
16:02 asciilifeform gold.
16:02 asciilifeform ( https://archive.li/snefM , for dedicated entomologists. )
16:05 asciilifeform !#s fedex wrench
16:05 a111 0 results for "fedex wrench", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fedex%20wrench
16:05 asciilifeform hmm
16:06 asciilifeform forfuckssake this WAS in the log.
16:07 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-14#921213 << was in here.
16:07 a111 Logged on 2014-11-14 04:48 asciilifeform: ( http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/14/us/politics/pentagon-studies-reveal-major-nuclear-problems.html )
16:07 asciilifeform '“They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country, one official familiar with the contents of the reports said Thursday. No one had checked in years “to see if new tools were being made,” the official said. This was one of many maintenance problems that had “been around so long that no one reported them anymore.”'
16:08 asciilifeform there was another scandal where it was found that latrines clogged , never fixed, and the grunts shat right off the maintenance gangway onto the rocket. but i can't be arsed to dig for it.
~ 37 minutes ~
16:46 mircea_popescu "today you need to shit, tomorrow you will betray the fatherland"
16:47 mircea_popescu who could have predicted people don't stop shitting just because "the people" is unprepared to handle it.
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
17:57 deedbot http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/05/24/a-tiny-stab-at-a-little-pricing-problem/ << Ossasepia - A Tiny Stab at a Little Pricing Problem
~ 2 hours 1 minutes ~
19:59 lobbes !Qlater tell shinohai why no comments allowed on yer blog?
19:59 lobbesbot lobbes: The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
21:07 mod6 baby, i've got a fever.
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21:07 lobbesbot mod6: Sent 5 hours and 24 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i get eggog '#trilema-mod6 (Channel is invite only)'
21:07 mod6 and the only cure is MOAR COWBELL
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
22:09 asciilifeform in other entomo-horrors, https://archive.li/yNOSl << for all i ever said in defense of this d00d -- will have to take it back; he's gone full tard
22:09 asciilifeform !#s locklin
22:09 a111 69 results for "locklin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=locklin
22:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, sadly in some fields there's only enumerable stable states, once not-in-1, then-in-other becomes unavoidable.
22:12 asciilifeform he ~could~ have gone to build toyota engines !1
22:12 mircea_popescu anyway, seems to me the piece is pure wank, "here's things i say about women i supposedly fucked in the hope anyone reading thinks i ever get laid".
22:12 mircea_popescu dude suffered for a while from this "i don't wanna X!!!" syndrome, as if anyone was in any danger of asking anything like it. "i don't wanna go to the prom!!!" "fatty... who's asking you to ?!"
22:12 asciilifeform i was not able to extract sense from it, reads like pure spamola
22:13 mircea_popescu i just skimmed, saw "facebook is syphilis".
22:13 asciilifeform bonus: the item he linked as dayjob, is ~indistinguishable from dogecoin
22:14 asciilifeform ( crackpot browser with micropay-somethingorother built in )
22:14 asciilifeform bonuslulz : 'I’d posit that any blockchain type who can’t find productive employment on socially useful projects or isn’t in danger of financial independence either doesn’t feel like working, doesn’t care about money or doesn’t actually know anything about blockchain. In the former cases you can’t recruit them, and in the latter case, you really shouldn’t.'
22:15 asciilifeform 'blockchain type' didjaknow
22:15 mircea_popescu anyway, lulzy that his links are https://archive.li/o/yNOSl/https://youexec.com/dev/2017/1/14/google-facebook-ads-traffic-is-useless rather than trilema.com/2015/heres-what-you-dont-know-or-understand-about-facebook-everything/ trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/ etcetera, even though only some of the authors are experts in the field ; but then again ever since i knew him it was obvious he prefers the johny come
22:15 mircea_popescu lately clueless dweebs to the original works.
22:16 mircea_popescu anyways, whatever. who cares about yet another "52 M Dom" fetlife profile ? he never was more than that.
22:16 asciilifeform veerry long time ago he had pieces re scams, usg grantolade lulz, etc.
22:17 asciilifeform seemed like clever honest d00d.
22:19 asciilifeform i have him filed in my head as a victim of the 'goldbug disease' (i.e. pissed that btc stole 'their' lightning, in idjit tilt and consorting with enemy ever since )
22:19 mircea_popescu "sadly, in some fields there's only enumerable stable states, once not-in-1, then-in-other becomes unavoidable." there's no such thing as clever honest man-alone.
22:21 asciilifeform not detectably, at any rate
22:22 * asciilifeform allows for theoretical possibility of honest folx writing 'into desks'
22:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2013-04-16#-9192 << has an answer meanwhile. "has learned ~something~, is now preoccupied with traffic and dumb shit like that".
22:23 a111 Logged on 2013-04-16 16:41 mircea_popescu: i wonder if he learns by it.
22:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, how are they to ~stay~ in the state ? see, that's the thing, "free floating hydrogen" as a theoretical possibility. sure, why not. "free floating hydrogen as a STABLE STATE"... well... no such theoretical possibility. it can't be a stable state for very clear reasons.
22:25 mircea_popescu in vitro, purified virus is essentially a large molecule, as inert as salt. in vivo... what do you mean purified, and what do you mean inert.
22:25 mircea_popescu either it's in the process of killing the host or else in the process of getting pissed out ; there's no third.
22:26 asciilifeform the h can float for a while; it isn't as if intelligent heathen will find mircea_popescu by reading arsebook/nyt/whichever volkischer beobachter
~ 45 minutes ~
23:12 mircea_popescu certainly.
23:12 mircea_popescu then again, unlike the various jew outlets, mircea_popescu actually dominates the portions of the empire where the empire tries or is forced to interact with reality
23:13 mircea_popescu eg, mocky found this place because ~searched~, on hitler's own "artificially intelligent" zek-bubbler.
23:13 asciilifeform oh hah interesting
23:13 mircea_popescu because the portions where the bubbler is ran by algorithm, mircea_popescu owns.
23:13 mircea_popescu and there's a necessary portion that has to always run that way (also per goedel).
23:13 mircea_popescu and so on.
23:15 mircea_popescu the problem of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817790 has a very ready converse, as i'm sure you realised.
23:15 a111 Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: if and only if everyone's in chains, then and then only can you be entirely sure nobody's linked two z80 chips together and cycling "alf is a pooperhead" back and forth between them.
23:16 * asciilifeform late evening, listening to elderly ukrs derp on shortwave re horror of their neet chillunz derping on ipnojes; where to read re antennae design; putin.
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23:17 mircea_popescu (re hydrogen, for the young'uns : the only stable state in material system of universe is black hole. which is why black hole is even important theoretically -- universe having stable state means it won't last)
23:28 mircea_popescu speaking of which : most large black holes have average densities lower than water. anyone care to explain why, as a 5th grade geometry olympiad problem ?
23:32 Mocky my guess is due to large volume of event horizon
23:33 mircea_popescu this is not acceptable olympiad solution format.
23:34 mircea_popescu "volume is third power proportion of radius ; [schwarzschild] radius is first power proportion of mass ; therefore mass divided by volume is 2nd power inverse proportion of mass"
23:34 Mocky is that like jeapardy format, "what is 4/3 pi r^3?"
23:39 Mocky but wait a minute, your answer doesnt explain why large black holes have average densities lower than water
23:41 mircea_popescu why not ? if density is f(1/m^2) you can pick a m large enough for any arbitrary low density you wish.
23:42 Mocky ah I see it
23:44 Mocky what is bubbler in zek-bubbler?
23:44 mircea_popescu (in some models there's an upper bound on black hole size about 10^40 or so, but w/e, let's not get THAT technical)
23:45 mircea_popescu Mocky, the general purpose of google / the rest of the imperial attempts at colonizing the web revolve around the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733995 process, except built out of "your interests" rather than plastic.
23:45 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 14:30 mircea_popescu: build vacupack units, keep them fed with biomaterial (plastic, schmucks), dump the results at sea. a 100tdw ship should be able to carry 1mn of the shitheads at a time.
23:49 Mocky I've noticed lately that google has some results that it damn well doesn't want to give me... all the results say "missing search term" for what ever I searched for, even when I put a + infront. but it *has* my results and if i repeat the search term 3 or for times in the query eventually relents and shows me
23:51 danielpbarron don't black holes emit radiation? and does that make them not stable?
23:51 Mocky like the search term was just a mild suggestion, will show if feels like it, or better yet ad from sponsor
23:58 mircea_popescu danielpbarron, only when eating.
23:58 mircea_popescu Mocky, you realise, everyone's model revolves around wrapping zeks. it's just that the democrats are (mostly, unexamiedly) partialists while we're absolutists.
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