Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-10-11 | 2018-10-13 → ↓
04:14 ave1 diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/, it seems that wordpress filtered out the <code> tags, could you edit / fix these (I should have used pre probably)
04:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860679 << i don't get it, so you run it with a border. end of world ?
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04:25 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 17:08 asciilifeform: draws 400mW in reflector mode (~1/5 of what colour panel of that weight class eats) .
04:29 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ahaha, ever been in a military coup before ?
04:31 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860710 << standard algo, guaranteed to finish in at most n steps.
04:31 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 19:34 asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S 2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak) 3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
04:31 mircea_popescu (n=filecount)
04:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860712 << suppose you stat ~the file you're about to produce~ rather than stat "the file you produced already" ?
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04:32 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 19:36 phf: asciilifeform: nah, you want a random seed always, because you're trying to avoid race by producing a least likely collision. the race will always exist between existance check and initial creation
04:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860728 << afaik the agremeent on that was "rewrite dev/random and dev/urandom to be ~ diana_coman 's fg wrappers.
04:34 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 19:59 phf: but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch
04:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860743 << you conceivably might want to review contentious calls at some point or w/e. but kinda like cctv tapes, ~never useful.
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04:36 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 23:30 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860619 << Call recording is not needed, imho.
04:37 ave1 the wrappers read directly from the tty and work one processor at the time.
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04:38 mircea_popescu is the idea that the pool would; run out ?
04:39 mircea_popescu nice crc32 fuxing btw.
04:40 ave1 no, that you have multiple concurrent applications all reading from the tty at the same time. Some kind of intermediate is needed to divide the bytes.
04:40 mircea_popescu i don't get it. you have one (kernel) reading from tty putting it into /dev/?random ; and however many apps reading from there as now.
04:40 mircea_popescu this creates a flow issue ?
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04:42 ave1 now, I'll have to check
04:42 mircea_popescu i'm naively assuming it wouldn't, but in fairness haven't actually looked into the gnarl.
04:43 mircea_popescu (but, importantly, /dev/random === /dev/urandom is a fundamental ideological patch. fuck the fucking idiocy!)
04:44 mircea_popescu there shall be ONE random. and if there isn't one, throw the shirt iron out with the garbage. and if there's "two", throw the "engineer" responsible out with the garbage.
~ 16 minutes ~
05:00 mircea_popescu there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
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~ 22 minutes ~
05:22 diana_coman ave1, why not add it as a .vpatch on the eucrypt tree?
05:30 diana_coman ave1, at any rate, <pre> tags added, looks good
05:30 diana_coman if you make it a .vpatch, I'll sign it
05:40 ave1 well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
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05:40 ave1 I'll make it a vpatch later today...
05:40 diana_coman well yes, but where should reference code be?
05:41 diana_coman there is also the bit-keccak in eucrypt and that is the same really - reference code rather than production code
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05:44 ave1 as for urandom, whenever I search for it I end up revisiting this one http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-15#1614105. It seems both are unusable.
05:44 a111 Logged on 2017-02-15 18:59 asciilifeform: in related lulz/disinfo, http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/
05:44 diana_coman keeping it separate certainly makes sense (so that it's not a mandatory piece in there) but if it's code it's still basically under V that it belongs
~ 2 hours 3 minutes ~
07:47 ave1 diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/#comment-4318
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07:52 diana_coman nice, thanks!
07:54 diana_coman typo in manifest "emplementation" -> implementation ; but one can live with that
07:54 diana_coman you might want perhaps to add a call + check to it in the tests too?
07:58 ave1 diana_coman, I'll add my test and fix the typo and regrind
07:58 diana_coman sounds good
08:10 ave1 diana_coman, updated!
08:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860756 << lcd , of any type yer likely to meet with, draws =~ current regardless of what is displayed
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08:16 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 08:25 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860679 << i don't get it, so you run it with a border. end of world ?
08:20 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860762 << that was the contemplated stat(), yes. the sad is that idjit unix does not have a general-purpose 'this block of program is atomic' primitive, and so other cpu can fuck you b/w the stat() and open() call ( tho phf did find a open() flag that supposedly atomicises )
08:20 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 08:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860712 << suppose you stat ~the file you're about to produce~ rather than stat "the file you produced already" ?
08:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860773 << sane unixes will ~lock~ it, so errybody but 1 starves. insane ones will feed same randomola to multiple threads..
08:21 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 08:40 mircea_popescu: this creates a flow issue ?
08:22 asciilifeform neither is what we'd want, imho
~ 17 minutes ~
08:39 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
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08:39 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 09:00 mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
08:40 asciilifeform reading a legit /dev/random ( or FG, or any other device ) is a ~blocking~ op, potentially returns in a year if you're entropy-poor , or even rich but 9000 processes want it
08:41 asciilifeform but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
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08:42 asciilifeform but if i'm overwriting a 8TB disk prior to taking it to crematorium, i'd rather urandom, i dun presently have a 200M/sec rng
08:49 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
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08:49 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 11:47 ave1: diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/#comment-4318
08:49 asciilifeform ( the table variant is elementarily not constant time on pc )
08:52 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860785 << waitasec, we have a non-'bit' keccak somewhere ? i.e. one that doesn't require buffers to be blown up 8x , as in http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_ksum#L76 ? i'd like this... ( and i suspect so would errybody )
08:52 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 09:41 diana_coman: there is also the bit-keccak in eucrypt and that is the same really - reference code rather than production code
~ 16 minutes ~
09:08 diana_coman asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
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09:09 diana_coman ave1, thank you, I'll look through it in more detail a bit later today
09:11 ave1 the div variant could be made to be constant time using the ffa primitives but currently is not.
09:11 ave1 div == division
09:22 asciilifeform ave1: you dun need ffa for this, yer dividing single words by single word
09:23 ave1 asciilifeform, well bits are being checked to be able to determine if xor div is needed
09:24 ave1 and for the table lookup, it's the the table access part that's not constant time? (lookup(0) might take different time than loop(255))?
09:26 asciilifeform ave1: use the method illustrated in w_mux, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis#L870
09:27 asciilifeform ave1: tables on pc are unconstanttime, on acct of cache
09:27 asciilifeform ( even very small table can end up crossing page boundary )
09:28 asciilifeform anyway i dun think this is critical for any current application. but ideally would like to be able to take a checksum without leaking what-of
09:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860813 << aa make sense
09:29 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 13:08 diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
09:31 ave1 asciilifeform, I was looking for mux just now in ffa just now and I came by the add_gated which uses a different method,.
09:32 ave1 which I did not remember
09:32 asciilifeform ave1: well it's from a later chapter
09:34 ave1 I know, it was more a description of how my memory was playing tricks on me
09:35 ave1 I did not remember the name "mux", but did remember the method, and I was sure it would be needed in add, but then it was not there. Next in mul, again not there then in modexp...
09:37 asciilifeform ave1: in the moar expensive muxable ops, i 'rolled in' the muxing
09:38 asciilifeform ( again for reasonable speed on pc, where 'data locality' can mean 10-20x speed diff )
09:39 asciilifeform i.e. if yer walking an array, best do errything yer gonna do to an element once, before going to next -- rather than walking it >1 time
09:46 asciilifeform ave1: 'if Bit31Set then R := R or Bit31; end if;' << is elementarily unnecessary, think about it
09:47 asciilifeform if it aint set, the op does nuffin
09:48 asciilifeform ave1: apply same fact in the 'if BitSet then A := A or Bit1; end if;' thing
09:49 asciilifeform ave1: and for the 'A := A xor D' , use a mux. and yer done.
09:49 asciilifeform nomoar if's.
09:49 ave1 asciilifeform, Bit31 is in A, it needs to be shifted in on R
09:50 asciilifeform ave1: ~rotate~ A instead of shifting, then and with 1, then it'll be in the correct place
09:50 asciilifeform i illustrated this in ffa
09:51 asciilifeform i was gonna post an edited ver of ave1's thing, but thought he might enjoy doing with own hands
09:52 ave1 ouch, but I hate thinking
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09:52 asciilifeform ( bonus is that the closed form is not only constant time, but substantially faster on pc, nomoar branch prediction misses )
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09:52 asciilifeform lol
10:02 ave1 without the if; http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AFgkC/?raw=true. This destroys A, rotate does not.
10:08 asciilifeform unrelatedly, 'for I in Integer range S'First .. S'First + 3 loop' is problem, what if yer string has <4 chars
10:09 ave1 4 characters are always appended
10:09 ave1 btw I had an implementation that did not do this appending, but then the whole body becomes more complex
10:12 ave1 if a message is 1 byte, of the 4 bytes to append, 3 will have to be inverted (initial operation on register)
10:12 ave1 and this then creeps into the loop
~ 26 minutes ~
10:39 ave1 no more ifs: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mrAYH/?raw=true
10:39 asciilifeform ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ssOkG/?raw=true
10:39 asciilifeform ^ can prolly simplify further
10:39 asciilifeform nao lemme see yours..
10:40 ave1 is same
10:40 asciilifeform lol
10:40 asciilifeform loox like.
10:40 ave1 also at same time pasted
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10:40 asciilifeform ( there's no point to having the 'Bit1' constant tho )
10:41 asciilifeform anyway i suspect it makes sense to ave1 , he came up with the correct answ
10:41 asciilifeform ( possibly the algebra can be shortened tho )
10:42 asciilifeform wasn't so painful, was it.
10:44 ave1 the painfull part was at the start when I did not know that crc used a reversed bit order and did not understand that the initial register has to be xored with the message (and not used as a kind of prepend)
10:46 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860766 << Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. Would be a nice to have, just in case someone gets out-of-pocket.
10:46 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 08:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860743 << you conceivably might want to review contentious calls at some point or w/e. but kinda like cctv tapes, ~never useful.
10:46 mod6 asciilifeform: it was $7/mo extra for the call recording?
10:46 asciilifeform mod6: aha
10:46 mod6 hrm
10:46 asciilifeform mod6: we have coupla month worth of 'phree' credit tho
10:47 asciilifeform so if you like i can leave it on for a spell
10:47 mod6 Ok, that's fine. Let's see what kinda calls we get in those two months. And then we'll go from there. $7 isn't too bad at all, anyway.
10:47 asciilifeform btw mod6 , i haven't tested the pnoje thing yet, why dontcha try it while i go to tea
10:47 * asciilifeform brb
10:49 mod6 Aight, "The customer you have dialed is not avaliable at this time. Good-bye."
11:01 ave1 btw, turns out I was wrong on; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860768. I can run the entropy source tests in parallel without problem (jyst takes n times longer, so scales as expected)
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11:01 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 08:37 ave1: the wrappers read directly from the tty and work one processor at the time.
~ 29 minutes ~
11:31 BingoBoingo hanbot: Thank you very much
11:34 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: This would be my first if it happens. My read is there's still time for National Party to get their shit together for the impending election. They have a celebrity MUGA candidate officially announcing in a few weeks.
11:35 BingoBoingo On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
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11:41 asciilifeform mod6: i dun see any calls in the log. gonna write to the vendor shortly.
11:42 asciilifeform mod6: did it go to eggog immediately or long-tone for a while ?
11:43 BingoBoingo https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/blancos-reciben-con-el-cuchillo-entre-dientes-al-millonario-sartori--20181011173848 << Tell me if you have seen this play before anywhere
11:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860876 << how do you know you aint feeding overlapping rngola to the parallel processes ?
11:44 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 15:01 ave1: btw, turns out I was wrong on; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860768. I can run the entropy source tests in parallel without problem (jyst takes n times longer, so scales as expected)
~ 15 minutes ~
12:00 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo lulz potential in either case!
12:00 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: For sure
12:08 mircea_popescu in other MCGA, yest spent lunch at table with three girls, at upscale italian place where there were three girls total. on the left, tableful of dudes. on the right, tableful of dudes. nobody said as much as zip, though i was openly playing with tits over cacciucco.
12:08 mircea_popescu mace kucks grate agane!
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12:11 BingoBoingo !b 4
12:16 mod6 lel
12:16 mod6 asciilifeform: it was straight to eggog
12:16 mod6 i'll try again
12:19 mod6 Ok cool, it works. I think my problem is that i dialed a "1" in front of the entire number.
12:20 mod6 833-867-7282 << this is how you dial it from usg phone
12:20 mircea_popescu o hey, tested ? nice!
12:20 mircea_popescu fancy that, mod6 , tbf now has 0800 number.
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12:20 mod6 Heheh, up, surpised nicole
12:20 mircea_popescu afaik none of the other various pretenders managed as much.
12:20 mod6 yeah, pretty neat
12:21 mircea_popescu and looking back, wasn't that much trouble at all. just needed to be done. 20 bux, whassat.
12:21 mod6 yeah, that's fine. and the call quality was good -- totally clear.
12:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aaactually had to fight with vendor ~daily for ~week
12:21 asciilifeform and make acct 2nd time, and various liquishit paperworx
12:21 mircea_popescu o.O
12:21 mircea_popescu why the fuck ?!
12:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cuz promised 'next day' and turned out ~week, and place runs on meat/monkeys rather than (as implied) comp
12:23 mircea_popescu wait, wait. there's a chick with ye olde metal probes making contacts on the board ?
12:23 mircea_popescu motherfucker get pics, you have any idea how oldschool cool this is getting to be ?
12:23 mod6 Ethel on the switchboards.
12:23 mircea_popescu we're putting it in the tmsr music video.
12:23 asciilifeform possibly not quite this sad, but there apparently was d00ds filling out spreadshits by hand
12:23 mircea_popescu the us is the premiere technology and things in the werld!
12:23 asciilifeform i suspect it's a dns-style racket, they purchase the #s somewhere & resell
12:24 mircea_popescu prolly.
12:24 asciilifeform subj is far from my daily doings so i have presently nfi just where they get'em
12:24 mircea_popescu if the pricepoint's any indication... and the pricepoint always is the first and foremost indication.
12:24 mircea_popescu "this salami costs as much as that cheese, ERGO THIS SALAMI IS THAT CHEESE". and this phone thing dns, and so on.
12:24 asciilifeform it's an aol-style 'cheap but then let'em add the bells & whistles and then they'll pay' sorta thing.
12:25 mircea_popescu how much did it end up ?
12:25 asciilifeform 18bux upfront; 180.18 'phree credit' remaining
12:25 mod6 Nice, when you run out, just invoice the Foundation via jurov plz.
12:25 mircea_popescu mod6 ah you picking this up ?
12:26 asciilifeform i.e. by my reckoning, 9 months of service if nobody calls, and fewer if sumbody does
12:26 mod6 I think it's fine that the Foundation pays for it's toll-free number, Sure. Objections?
12:26 asciilifeform ( iirc 5c/min )
12:26 mircea_popescu aite. i was gonna pay myself, but see no problem with tbf picking it up either. all yours.
12:27 mod6 Sounds good.
12:27 asciilifeform i'ma invoice mod6 then as soon as it actually costs sumthing nontrivial, or erry 6mo, whichever comes 1st
12:27 mod6 Cool, but srsly, invoice jurov, he pays 'em.
12:27 mircea_popescu the conversations rich people have...
12:27 mod6 haha
12:27 asciilifeform btw theres a (apparently phree) feature where it can go to diff receivers at different times of day
12:28 mircea_popescu you niggas white or what.
12:28 asciilifeform so if sumbody wants to be telephonist...
12:28 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/five-eyes-spy-cartel-announces-counter-china-operations/ << Qntra - Five Eyes Spy Cartel Announces Counter China Operations
12:28 mircea_popescu aaahahaha
12:28 mod6 asciilifeform: ahh good to know.
12:29 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo nice lol.
12:29 mod6 Is there a feature where it'll ring to person 1, and if person 1 does not answer, it'll roll to a different number?
12:29 asciilifeform mod6: indeed there is
12:29 mod6 Ah, that's pretty handy too.
12:29 asciilifeform you can have theoretically unlimited # of these
12:29 mircea_popescu this might be useful, but i'm not putting a 2nd slavegirl on this galley.
12:29 asciilifeform anybody who wants to be in this list, plox to gpg #.
12:30 asciilifeform otherwise it'll be just the one mircea_popescu supplied.
12:30 mircea_popescu actually... ideally prolly euro zone anyway.
12:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: keep in mind that 8xx only work from usa
12:30 mircea_popescu though, logically, if we care enough about permanence rather than existence, more logical to also make euro free number, and add euro located respondent, and then criss-cross these on 2nd pass.
12:30 mircea_popescu but imo by now this is getting overengineered. let's revisit it if/when becomes importanrt.
12:31 asciilifeform currently i've nfi how to make eu phree pnojes, would have to look into it if it becomes interesting
12:31 mircea_popescu it's a thing, just like us, but anyway. next year.
12:31 asciilifeform afaik avoxi dun do euro, would need a 2nd vendor.
12:31 mod6 I agree, let's just visit this when we have the problem.
12:31 mircea_popescu next years in dusseldorf.
12:31 asciilifeform aha
12:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860782 << good to have both ends, for reason alf pointed out (embedded systems might not afford the kbs)
12:32 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 09:40 ave1: well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
12:32 asciilifeform ty mircea_popescu for supplying the idea and the picker-up
12:32 mircea_popescu ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
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12:32 mircea_popescu this way we also get to explore that fabled tree resolution stuff in v.
12:33 asciilifeform ^ The Right Thing imho
12:33 mircea_popescu oya.
12:33 asciilifeform ( recall #ifdefism thread )
12:33 mircea_popescu in a word, ave1 : don't be shy. there's a time to be shy, but when they bring out the playdo's not that time. shove it up shirts, see what happens.
12:34 asciilifeform mod6: i recommend to put the #, "1-833-TMSRBTC" , on tbf www
12:34 mircea_popescu (kindergarten mp once famously convinced smitten kitten to sit put for playdo shoving up nostrils "to see what happens". emergency room visit happened, and very sad & contrite mp.)
12:34 mod6 I can do that -- the "1" in front didn't work for me tho!
12:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why 1 ?!
12:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: traditionally these dun work w/out the prefix
12:35 asciilifeform but apparently mod6's telco is opposite, so i have nfi
12:35 mircea_popescu you tested yourself ?
12:35 asciilifeform notyet, but why not!
12:35 * asciilifeform brb
12:35 mircea_popescu she'll be pleased to hear from you :)
12:36 mod6 btw... jurov and I are working on relocating the bitcoin.foundation website to the foundation's server in Pizarro. We're gonna get it set up, and test before we announce a cut-over date. Smooth transition, ftw.
12:36 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> she'll be pleased to hear from you :) << Or give him an earful about logs to summarize
12:36 mircea_popescu alf be like "hello ? oh, is this nicole ? JUST CALLED TO TELL YOU YOUR PHONE ANSWERING SUCKS! i mean... i was expecting it to improve but it turns out NOT"
12:36 asciilifeform worx!!
12:36 asciilifeform she was bit confused.
12:37 asciilifeform worked with 1-833.
12:37 mircea_popescu o.O
12:37 mod6 your phone is tapped
12:37 mircea_popescu so wait, wait. these idiots managed to create dialing ambiguity ?!
12:37 asciilifeform i dun pnoje much these days, nfi
12:37 mircea_popescu as in, we don't now know if it's 1833 or 833 ?!
12:37 BingoBoingo Nah, dialing ambiguity is a US telecom thing
12:37 asciilifeform 1 is usa pnoje prefix
12:37 mircea_popescu what the fuck is wrong with that country.
12:37 BingoBoingo Much
12:37 mircea_popescu mod6 write it as "[1] 833 TMSR BTC"
12:38 mod6 i expected the "1" to work, however, maybe it's just a "smrt phone" thing
12:38 mod6 mircea_popescu: got it.
12:39 asciilifeform btw there's another pheature, also apparently 0cost, that lets you make calls ~from~ it
12:39 asciilifeform but i did not plug it in, couldn't think of why to do presently
12:40 mod6 Alright, check it out: http://thebitcoin.foundation
12:40 asciilifeform oh hey
12:40 mod6 Any changes?
12:40 mircea_popescu no dashes
12:40 mod6 Ok, sec...
12:41 mod6 Ok gone
12:41 asciilifeform can also nix the space b/w tmsr and btc
12:41 mircea_popescu imo looks pretty cool.
12:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah.
12:41 mircea_popescu mnemonics!
12:41 asciilifeform aite
12:42 mod6 *thumbsup*
12:42 asciilifeform thing has voice mail too, but i assumed receiver has own and didn't plug it in
12:43 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860796 << i meant strictly as "oh, can't use, it's wrong proportion". so what if it is ?!
12:43 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 12:16 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860756 << lcd , of any type yer likely to meet with, draws =~ current regardless of what is displayed
12:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aah, orig thread was re what machines it can be sewn into
12:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: specifically, it cannot sit down in the beloved x60 or any other 4:3
12:44 mircea_popescu all. because, whether they expect 16:9 or 4:3 or 19:6 or anything else, you can... margin it!
12:44 mircea_popescu ofcourseitcan!
12:44 asciilifeform it's a physical part, gotta fit in the frame
12:44 asciilifeform ( cable , can be adaptered, in theory, but frame is what it is )
12:45 mircea_popescu ah come on. ductape and bimbo-chewed gum.
12:45 asciilifeform ugh
12:45 mircea_popescu don't tell me your problem is not having a 3d printer./
12:45 asciilifeform if yer willing to carry suitcase, may as well get the chinese hdmi/vga boardlet and use with rk.
12:45 mircea_popescu imo this half-problem was born for being trampled ignominously, but then again that's just me.
12:46 asciilifeform there's 6 or so known lappies where thing fits natively, with 0 construction work, i have one due to show up next wk, will post photo if worx.
12:47 asciilifeform i have nfi if item is of interest to anyone other than asciilifeform , aside from possibly phf
12:47 mircea_popescu i dunno, i kinda like playing heroes2 on lappies, >50% of their utility, whip it out while camping or w/e. but...
12:47 asciilifeform lenovo box, with roughly same chipset as x60
12:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you'd play in b&w ?!
12:48 mircea_popescu meh.
12:48 asciilifeform in very bright sun it gives colour, of a sort, interestingly
12:48 mircea_popescu heh
12:48 asciilifeform ( as well as if you turn on the backlight led, then it becomes ~ordinary screen )
12:48 mircea_popescu im kinda happy with darlana's red hair-rubies & vatawna's golden locks.
12:49 asciilifeform the maker of the thing folded coupla yrs ago, they had 2 major buyers, the 'olpc' idjicy (dead) and usg (made clone, as i understand) and so starved.
12:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860803 << any program which CAN use urand DOES NOT need nor should have real entropy.
12:49 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 12:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
12:50 mircea_popescu have your own program designed correctly, so your own shitropy management thread ensures your own shitropy calls always return in constant time. YOUR JOB, as a shitropy eater.
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i sat down & tried to think of a legit use for urandom, only came up with what's in the linked thread
12:51 asciilifeform tbh i wouldn't miss it if it vanished.
12:51 mircea_popescu ie, if the most shitropy you ever want in one gulp is x, make manager thread create that chunk in contiguous memory and keep it full.
12:51 mircea_popescu and none of the "but mp, if i make it the size i think it should be it crashes" bs.
12:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the reason i even called it ideological patch is because the pretense that shitropy-eaters have anyhthing to do with entropy, or us, must be shot in the head.
12:52 mircea_popescu fucktarded zeks that eat the usg cheese THEREFORE CAN NOT nor should eat my cheese. and we're back to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860889
12:52 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 16:08 mircea_popescu: mace kucks grate agane!
12:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall also how the thing came to be ( was idjit hack, around the fact that 'sshd wants entropy at boot time, before rng init' or somesuch )
12:52 mircea_popescu w/e "customer has come to expect" - ism.
12:52 asciilifeform !#s tv raft
12:52 a111 14 results for "tv raft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tv%20raft
12:53 asciilifeform ( trilema item, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 )
12:53 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
12:53 mircea_popescu i am by now thoroughly allergic to this "downstream wants something upstream doesn't provide, so it's neither time to bring out the whips and chains upon the downstream nor to throw out the upstream and bake a new one, but instead let's hotwire the microwave ballast to the toaster."
12:53 asciilifeform afaik it's exactly this
12:54 mircea_popescu there's a time when the hotglue guns and bimbo-chewed gum comes out.
12:54 mircea_popescu that time is not everytime.
12:55 asciilifeform if pc had been designed by sane folx, it'd have rng that worx at bus speed, and nobody could have even conceived of this nonsense.
12:56 mircea_popescu in the 1980s engineers / cstronicists' defense, it was not yet understood how important entropy is to individuality and human existence.
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12:56 mircea_popescu rsa not born yet ; all our practice not yet practiced. i can scarcely blame aurel vlaicu for using textile fixed wing.
12:56 mircea_popescu but yes, access to entropy is by now the one underpinning of being a citizen.
12:56 asciilifeform rsa very much existed in '80s, good % of the classic papers re real-life algos for it are from exactly then
12:57 asciilifeform wasn't widely in use tho, because expensive.
12:58 asciilifeform ( at one time i tried to rsa on 6502, it's a royal bitch on 8bit-wide chip with no multiplier )
12:58 asciilifeform ~hour for mod-exp.
12:59 asciilifeform z80 ditto
13:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform rsa first published 1977 ; Intel produces the world's first single-chip CPU, the 4004 microprocessor. in 1971.
13:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: most of the subj (e.g. barrett's algo) is late-80s
13:03 * asciilifeform has entire bookshelf of it nao
13:04 asciilifeform orig. msdos 'pgp' was , what, '92 ? and the mit-istic bastardizations, shortly after
13:04 mircea_popescu either you go "early", in which case 1971 is before 1977 ; or else you go "mass adoption", in which case killer micro is 1990s, but rsa is EXACTLY gribble-assbot schism, cca 2013.
13:04 mircea_popescu in either case, rsa after.
13:05 asciilifeform yea not much point in counting banks etc. sad-512bit-rsa of mid-90s
13:06 asciilifeform ( entertainingly analogous, imho, to their current-day 'proprietary blockchains(tm)' liquishit )
13:06 asciilifeform 'let's do this, but without doing it'
13:06 mircea_popescu right. otherwise it becomes this arbitrary-point anachronism in the vein of "grandmother should have fucked better sailors on the basis of how retarded granson is, and i can prove this by showing grandson was alive at an arbitrary point in time grandmother hadn't died yet."
13:08 asciilifeform btw there's a megatonne of 512b rsa keys in my db
13:08 asciilifeform 1024b, even moar
13:08 asciilifeform right nao they cost maybe 100bux ea. to break.
13:09 asciilifeform ( and that's at 'ratecard' cpu farm )
13:14 mircea_popescu aha.
13:15 mircea_popescu "Texas Instruments delivers the first Advanced Scientific Computer (also called Advanced Seismic Computer), containing 4 pipelines with an 80 ns clock time. Vector instructions were memory-to-memory. Seven of these machines are later built, and an aggressive automatic vectorizing FORTRAN compiler is developed for them. It is the first machine to contain SECDED (Single Error Correction, Double Error Detection) memory. " << als
13:15 mircea_popescu o 71.
13:15 mircea_popescu other than this, computing was pretty much 100% radar signal processing at the time.
13:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ti is epic example of sad -- at one time 1 of the largest semiconductor houses in usa, and built not only a lispm ( flopped ) but fairly beefy 80s micro ( ti-99/4 , also flopped )
13:18 asciilifeform pissed away pretty much all market , despite at one time heavy muscle
13:18 mircea_popescu aha.
13:19 mircea_popescu kinda why i even took up the logline. it might be the worst #blackchickscode #womenarepeopletoo #slavesrightsnao #lxsdumbxs etc etc failure in history.
13:19 mircea_popescu pity nobody bothers to write the story of their spectacular implosion. it'd make ye olde http://trilema.com/2014/fred-quimby-and-ancient-evils/ story look quite tame.
13:19 asciilifeform they had a line of pocket calculators, this was ( and as i understand, remains ) their flagship product. but! they somehow managed to lose their upstream ic vendors (they dun make much with own hands any moar) and nao reduced to selling same calc with ~ipnoje+emulator internals, and multi-second boot(yes) times
13:20 mircea_popescu it's not so much "ti could have been the intel-microsoft/apple", but rather... it was. fucking was.
13:20 asciilifeform !#s ti-89
13:20 a111 51 results for "ti-89", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ti-89
13:20 asciilifeform e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763212
13:20 a111 Logged on 2018-01-03 17:37 ben_vulpes: so i dug this ti-89 platinum out of my closet last night to have something tactile to do arithmetic on and holy shit i'd completely forgotten about the input lag
13:21 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/pantsuit-media-slanders-kim-kardashians-husband-as-an-incel/ << Qntra - Pantsuit Media Slanders Kim Kardashian's Husband As An "Incel"
13:21 BingoBoingo ^Relatit
13:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall, box ran 'derive' internally
13:21 asciilifeform was imho the king of '90s pocketcalcism
13:21 * asciilifeform still uses occasionally
13:21 mircea_popescu gave it ALL away on inept management. and not even the "fucktarded engineer manalones" http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641130 stuff.
13:21 a111 Logged on 2017-04-09 22:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, in the above retelling, the 4->5 transition is the coup the grace. they couldn't "follow" each other ~because~, in this view, they were bereft of sufficient bandwith to in any sense communicate. so they couldn't, like, end up with all the same one substitute cuntcap.
13:23 mircea_popescu meanwhile in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575059 related lulz, https://image.ibb.co/eMOrdp/no-rights-for-tards.jpg
13:23 a111 Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
13:23 mircea_popescu READ BOOKS!!!
13:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: phunphakt : the only reason, afaik, why ti still not bankrupt , is that they somehow managed to get their bottom line calcs to be ~mandated~ in schools in ~whole usa
13:26 asciilifeform ( they also make a few high-end DACs, etc., but this prolly would not keep'em alive by itself )
13:26 mircea_popescu perfectly illustrates my point re terrible management. but yes.
13:27 asciilifeform ~30 solid yrs of shit management
13:28 asciilifeform if not for massive printolade infusions, would have died at roughly same time as commodore co.
13:28 mircea_popescu !#s bad revenue source
13:28 a111 5 results for "bad revenue source", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bad%20revenue%20source
13:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why did you link that exercise in idiocy re urand above ?
13:29 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the https://archive.is/clOSG link is a null page
13:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hm?
13:29 mircea_popescu so fucking stupid it's not even wrong. it's just too stupid to anything else.
13:31 mircea_popescu oh sorry, you labelled "related lulz/disinfo". i had it in buffer, got around to it, and well...
13:31 mircea_popescu gave me a start.
13:32 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Not entirely null, perfectly indicts actor who can't do accesible web design
13:32 asciilifeform phunphakt : bernstein (aka djb) pushes urandomism. actively.
13:33 mircea_popescu and jwz just wants email to work, news at 11.
13:34 asciilifeform in related lulz, and iirc we had a thread ( tho can't seem to unearth it ), urandom is sufficiently sad that when asciilifeform was running genetic algos / monte carlo / etc. crapolade , yrs ago, from it... would regularly fail to converge
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13:34 asciilifeform it was how i even got into rngism
13:34 mircea_popescu lmao.
13:34 mircea_popescu i heard same years ago from astrophysics simulator folks.
13:35 mircea_popescu ended up baking own, cabined size, noisemaker.
13:35 mircea_popescu "what do you have there ? cats ?" "inter alia..."
13:35 asciilifeform i even naively expected that we'd have steady trickle of physics folx buying FG
13:35 asciilifeform but somehow nope
13:36 asciilifeform ( my sim -- converged!11 -- when i fed it... don lancaster's geiger rng tarball. )
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13:36 mircea_popescu science spoken in english is very sad these days.
13:37 asciilifeform that was when asciilifeform's '3rd eye opened'
13:37 mircea_popescu (re above -- THEY ended up baking. i had nfi.)
13:37 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-27#811490 << see also.
13:37 a111 Logged on 2014-08-27 02:03 asciilifeform: bats_cd03: 'random' means one thing if you're running 'monte carlo' sims (digits of 'pi' work beautifully, as does 'A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates' (rand corp, 1955. book.))
13:38 asciilifeform ^ still in print, last i saw, incidentally
13:38 mircea_popescu pretty great book to write.
13:39 asciilifeform allegedly they actually had meat army throwing dice.
13:39 asciilifeform an' debiasing with pen and paper.
13:39 asciilifeform coupla tho monkey-hours.
13:40 mircea_popescu honestly, just buy 2mn dice, put them all in a large bag hoisted to a pole and let it drop.
13:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i find myself wondering how many physics folx sit and bite their lips, 'monte carlo dun work so good...', cuz they bought $50k swiss 'quantum rng' that whitens with sha.
13:41 mircea_popescu if they're out there let them doh.
13:41 asciilifeform afaik that's all of'em.
13:41 mircea_popescu "i wonder how much science was fucked out of existence / significantly delayed by #metoo-isms and in general, spurious involvement of idiots"
13:42 asciilifeform this pre-dates most of the current acute nonsense, even
13:42 mircea_popescu every time xantipa interrupted her illustious husband with some nonsense or other, rite.
13:42 asciilifeform it aint as if von neumann didn't warn'em.
13:43 asciilifeform 'state of sin', or how did it go.
13:44 mircea_popescu pandora also warned. what's in a warning.
13:44 asciilifeform notmuch. 'they have ears, but do not hear'(tm)
13:46 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860806 << "own prng" stance also correctly implements specificity-of-diddling republican doctrine, and more importantly one not really so formally expressed before -- that responsibility must sit with they responsible.
13:46 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 12:41 asciilifeform: but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
13:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sorta why i didn't even want a /dev/random, recall
13:48 mircea_popescu if you want to keep slaves -- then YOU administer the keeping of the slaves. you don't ask sheriff of wherver county to implement the fugitive slave act. and so on. who wants prng makes prng, does not get to pretend "oh, kernel has this knob for me, '''im not entirely sure what it does lol'''" tongue in cheek bs, '''i just dress like this, it doesn't mean anyhthing''' etc.
13:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform kernel should read fg like it reads memory.
13:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it behaves moar like a (very slowly moving) tape, tho, rather than memory
13:49 mircea_popescu the only problem, to my eye, is that good abstraction is being hijacked by the female minded to implement bad abstraction, ie, instead of an insulation from detail abstraction becomes an insulation from responsibility.
13:49 asciilifeform if kernel gotta be involved at all, it really ought to be simply to prevent multiple processes from seeing same FG bits.
13:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform right, but same principle.
13:49 mircea_popescu well yes.
13:50 asciilifeform currently i suspect that 'slicing' (per ave1 thread) isn't even wanted; but simply locking.
13:50 asciilifeform grab how many bits you want, then let go of the toilet lock for the next process.
13:51 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860808 << not a bad idea actually.
13:51 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 12:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
13:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: was done ( twice ! ) , lol, see further downthread.
13:51 mircea_popescu lol kk, going through.
13:52 mircea_popescu meanwhile visiting duckling got into my shoes, is individually gumming each of however many dozens laces, then forgetting its count and starting over.
13:52 asciilifeform imho pretty good didactic thread, btw, i'ma start linking to it
13:53 asciilifeform ( walkthrough of how to take 'programmatic' form and turn into closed-algebraic )
13:57 asciilifeform btw ave1 , if you're gonna keep the 'minimum 4 bytes of input', it oughta be a precondition to the func.
13:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860843 << o yeah, that's so evident from the extant record, too...
13:59 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 13:52 ave1: ouch, but I hate thinking
13:59 asciilifeform lol
13:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860844 << exactly.
13:59 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 13:52 asciilifeform: ( bonus is that the closed form is not only constant time, but substantially faster on pc, nomoar branch prediction misses )
14:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: unrollable, too.
14:00 mircea_popescu trying to figure out the future misses of the obvious by the branch predictor is the best way to drive intelligent people insane i know of.
14:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: x86 actually has terrifying hacks, in instruction sets, 'likely branch'/'unlikely branch'
14:01 asciilifeform spawned by this sorta thing
14:01 mircea_popescu aha.
14:01 mircea_popescu kinda how the whole thing even came to my attention. "really ?"
14:01 asciilifeform it has a legit, sorta, use -- long loops ( where branch 'likely', given as it is taken for all but final shot ) but still ugh
14:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 <<< ahaha this was a hystorical histerical moment!
14:03 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
14:03 asciilifeform personally i fucking hate branch prediction and other hacks around the slow main memory that for some reason there's no buyable alternative to ( cray is dead )
14:04 mircea_popescu republican agreement!
14:04 asciilifeform i'd rather have addressable sram , and explicit movement to/from a slower/cheaper brick
14:05 mircea_popescu so like a handrolled cache.
14:05 asciilifeform aha!
14:05 asciilifeform but with 'stick shift'
14:05 mircea_popescu if you ever design a car, i bet it'll come with direct command ignition clicker.
14:05 mircea_popescu AS MANY BUTTONS AS SPARKPLUGS
14:05 asciilifeform lol
14:06 mircea_popescu (correspondingly -- alf's boat design will come with the necessary body of water.)
14:06 asciilifeform ( recall, early steam engine actually had ~this )
14:06 mircea_popescu "surfer girl toy set. batteries and ocean included"
14:08 asciilifeform lol, could even describe e.g. trb this way
14:09 asciilifeform speaking of trb, i dusted off an old conveyor item, phuctor-like www proggy that maps out noadez ( you give it ips, and it connects to'em, then issues 'version' and 'getaddr', and builds a graph )
14:09 mircea_popescu nb.
14:09 asciilifeform idea being a republican (and non-idiotic) replacement for the https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/ item
14:09 mircea_popescu were you making a bot or already had a bot ?
14:10 mircea_popescu i recall some discussion
14:10 asciilifeform irc bot ?
14:10 mircea_popescu yea
14:10 mircea_popescu !alf check 16.22.33.56
14:10 asciilifeform i have 1 presently ( switched off, will move it to pizarro in near fyootoor ) , talks to ffa
14:10 asciilifeform ah yes i'ma use same skeleton for the nodes thing
14:10 asciilifeform initial draft is a plain phuctor-like www display tho
14:10 mircea_popescu ideally use same bot. have a buncha functions in it.
14:11 mircea_popescu think of it like your digital pet.
14:11 mircea_popescu which is exactly what they are.
14:11 asciilifeform definitely calls for a text bot
14:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: btw i think you'll like this, by default thing does opposite of the heathen one, doesn't display prb nodes individually, but simply as a collective 'sad people' stat # .
14:12 asciilifeform individual display only of trb-compat folx.
14:12 asciilifeform further in pipeline, will be a thing that actually asks'em for a randomly-picked block, and sees if it keccaks to what i've got.
14:12 mircea_popescu (one perfectly legitimate way to build-towards-gossipd is to make the following item standard : every bot, upon receiving some registration order from anyone in owner's wot, will then respond to "any messages for me ?" with a "since yo ulast asked, here's all the loglines i have seen which highlighted your name".
14:13 asciilifeform this'd be gold, imho, yes
14:13 mircea_popescu this then would allow one to maintain presence without ever connecting to the internet.
14:13 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860960 -> hm, doesn't the manifest impose a single line rather than a tree?
14:13 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 16:32 mircea_popescu: ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
14:13 asciilifeform diana_coman: no? you can branch on manifest like on anyffing else
14:13 mircea_popescu diana_coman a single line ~in the press~. but a tree ~in existence~.
14:14 mircea_popescu press == taking the tree of patches and building a line among them
14:14 diana_coman ah, alternative line in manifest too, I see it
14:14 diana_coman makes sense, yes
14:14 mircea_popescu why not. sure.
14:14 asciilifeform manifest is a piece of handy docs, not a straightjacket, lol
14:14 mircea_popescu right.
14:14 diana_coman and it fits perfectly the original idea of alternative, proper
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14:14 mircea_popescu note that it's not even illegal to blank the manifest or w/e. impolite, yes, but the spec allows.
14:15 mircea_popescu sorta how physics perfectly permits the destruction of statues, even though people tend to not indulge.
14:15 asciilifeform if yer nuking the manifest, good form would be to regenesis then imho. but yes
14:15 diana_coman well yes, I can't quite see the point of blanking the manifest without regenesis since that's basically what it means
14:16 trinque just didn't need preventing, as the bad form is screamingly apparent
14:16 diana_coman so I guess I'll wait then on ave1's updated .vpatch then
14:17 asciilifeform re upstack -- as it happens, 'trb-compat' is pretty easy to distinguish mechanically -- anybody who has 'services' field != 1, aint trb-compat.
14:17 asciilifeform ( granted such a survey won't distinguish 'pseudos' or outright shams, the only item that can do it is an actual noad )
14:18 asciilifeform the 1 'litmus test' i was able to think of , is the 'i pick a block hash and you gimme the block in <1s' algo.
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14:20 asciilifeform i strongly suspect that a very large % of the current set of 'nodes' won't pass.
14:21 asciilifeform btw trb could in principle be made entirely distinguishable, if we were to permit asking for a ~tx~ in 'inv' command ( currently prohibited , because prb nuked indexing , but could be brought into trb with no ill effect aside from some cpu cost )
14:21 asciilifeform in-block tx, that is, rather than mempool
14:23 asciilifeform it's a 2edged blade, as it would be a great temptation to 'light client' idjits to parasitize on trb. but would make for easy litmus.
14:29 mats BingoBoingo: thx
14:29 lobbesbot mats: Sent 1 day, 0 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NaRtE/?raw=true
14:29 BingoBoingo mats: No, thank you
14:33 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860880 << bwahaha. amplio what, amplio culo
14:33 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 15:35 BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
14:36 mircea_popescu "Molesto, Abdala sostuvo que prefiere que no se presente. “No puede caer un millonario en paracaídas a decir que va a ser precandidato”, dijo. " <<< ahjahaha AND WHY THE FUCK NOT ?
14:37 mircea_popescu what, because while he was getting rich and htey weren't "they were doing something equallty important" ? like what, let me guess, http://trilema.com/the-goodbye-girl "redecorating" the apartment ?
14:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun even know that the traditional orc intuition of 'rich ~= receives payola from miami' is such terrible heuristic
14:38 mircea_popescu THERE IS NOTHING EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
14:38 asciilifeform it's approx as solid as 'linux dunwork'
14:39 mircea_popescu we need a snippet of dennis hopper going "MAKE SOME FUCKING MONEY!!!" search and distroy bit
14:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is notably not what they're saying.
14:39 mircea_popescu what they're saying is, "just because he's rich doesn't mean we're dirt". which -- it does mean, yes.
14:39 asciilifeform lol i suppose nao i gotta actually read what they were sayin'..
14:39 mircea_popescu “A un partido de 182 años no le interesan señores oportunistas que vengan a instalarse." << this "anos" thing is such a big thing in southamerica, too.
14:40 asciilifeform very argentine flavour eh
14:40 mircea_popescu all the shitty shops in argentina were doing the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0 bullshit, "we've been here for 5690845 years." "yes, but you suck" "that is less important"
14:40 asciilifeform 'fucking customers with rusty nail since 1810'
14:42 mircea_popescu yoiu know ? bar-disco-club the size of your bathroom. "wtf is wrong with you ?!" "we've been serving customers since 1972!" "yeah well when you finally add up the slices to one whole served customer let me know"
14:42 asciilifeform dunno, ben_vulpes walked me into one in buenosaires that was bigger than my house, and ~empty
14:42 mircea_popescu where ?!
14:42 asciilifeform hey ben_vulpes do you recall where ?
14:43 asciilifeform i bet he does, d00d hung around for months there iirc
14:43 mircea_popescu wait, when was this ?!
14:43 asciilifeform c3 week
14:43 asciilifeform i havent been there since, no
14:43 mircea_popescu and ben_vulpes was around for months ?!
14:43 asciilifeform he had prior expedition
14:43 asciilifeform iirc even brought woman
14:43 mircea_popescu ave1 please return my memory that you stole. you can have yours back kthx.
14:44 asciilifeform iirc he investigated ar for terraforming
14:45 asciilifeform at any rate i dun doubt that the item wouldv'e broken spectacularly if mircea_popescu had torture-tested it
14:45 asciilifeform asciilifeform is not exactly primo disco tester.
14:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform are you maybe confusing ben_vulpes and mthreat ? who did actually live there yes, but ended up importing gf, jet etc. mostly used local infrastructure for cheap pilot lessons.
14:46 asciilifeform nope, definitely ben_vulpes
↖
14:46 mircea_popescu i oddly have no recollection of this.
14:46 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860880 << bwahaha. amplio what, amplio culo << Amplio is the Italian "Samba, sí" party
14:46 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 15:35 BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
14:46 asciilifeform pretty sure there was thread, even
14:47 asciilifeform !#s from:ben_vulpes buenos aires
14:47 a111 8 results for "from:ben_vulpes buenos aires", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aben_vulpes%20buenos%20aires
14:47 asciilifeform hm.
14:47 BingoBoingo Partido Nacional, historically the Partido Blanco, is the rural party
14:48 BingoBoingo But yes, lots of butthurt about what the fellow in question was doing making money and yet... He's their best chance to avoid a coup
14:49 mircea_popescu lotta this "i've been sitting here doing nothing for a long time, therefore i matter" nation of africa bs.
14:49 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> and ben_vulpes was around for months ?! << iirc a month-ish, something something wedding
14:49 mircea_popescu doing noting over time == someone will put a collar on you and you'll dance for pennies.
14:49 asciilifeform ( anyway if anybody turns up the thread, plox to link, i'm coming up empty )
14:50 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: iirc he mentioned 'orc exam' for gurl ~prior~ to marrying it
14:50 asciilifeform 'can survive on barren plantoid or not, lessee'
14:50 asciilifeform *planetoid
14:52 BingoBoingo Anyways, presenting quiet threat of military coup is exactly why Uruguay has army answering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-12#1850048
14:52 a111 Logged on 2018-09-12 19:52 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo uruguay has AN ARMY !?
14:52 mircea_popescu i guess so, yeah.
14:52 mircea_popescu anyway, moar venezuela just what the doctor ordered for the miami cunts.
14:52 asciilifeform speaking of which !
14:53 mircea_popescu let them fucking starve, and lick each other's bungholes in lieu of crocheting their own toilet paper, im 100% for it.
14:53 asciilifeform hey BingoBoingo whatever happened to that chix
14:53 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: She's still trying to unwind father's estate and extract mother from caracas
14:53 asciilifeform is she crocheting, or lickin', or wat...
14:53 mircea_popescu the obvious and necessary (though unfortunate -- but fuck them for not speaking up at the right time) result of #metoo is daily beatings and gang rape for all campus and highschool dwellers. rotherham / durban style
14:53 asciilifeform hm ok
14:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo has this a+++ chix
14:55 mircea_popescu nothing wrong with that.
14:55 asciilifeform pretty unusually, even had 'magic' voice, sorta like how i imagined sheherezad did
14:55 mircea_popescu ahaha! nice
14:56 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: In the interim her, mother, and small zoo of dogs and cats are in very un-Uruguayo home with six car garage
14:56 asciilifeform rare talent. she's wasted on pulling teeth.
14:56 BingoBoingo Chinese ancestry on mother's side, Polish on father's
14:57 asciilifeform !!up nicoleci
14:57 deedbot nicoleci voiced for 30 minutes.
14:58 BingoBoingo And her girlfriend dearly misses her
14:58 asciilifeform nicoleci: it was me ringing yer phone, btw, sorry'bout the short convo, had to switch terminals
14:58 nicoleci asciilifeform, no worries! i think their was a connection issue because i could barely understand you but mod6 was clear
14:58 asciilifeform nicoleci: yer an international pnoje superstar nao, btw.
14:59 asciilifeform nicoleci: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html see under 'call'
14:59 nicoleci asciilifeform, haha thanks. feel free to call me anytime and yell about the logs summaries
14:59 nicoleci ill check out the link too
14:59 mircea_popescu this has taken an unexpected turn :D
14:59 nicoleci anything else i should know?
15:00 asciilifeform nicoleci: i recommend to learn a bit re tbf and what it is, cuz folx will eventually start asking..
15:00 mircea_popescu nicoleci notrly, if anyone calls asking for infos relay the q's here. other than that...
15:00 asciilifeform also worx
15:00 mircea_popescu over time some kind of standardized form may emerge.
15:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: prolly will go smoother if she has some of it in l1 cache, imho
15:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform was there a fixed greeting ? "Hello you have reached The Bitcoin Foundation, how may I help you ?"
15:01 nicoleci ok cool. has anyone been able to ask questions before or is the ability to openly ask questions all new?
15:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sounds a++
15:01 nicoleci lol
15:01 asciilifeform mod6 what do you think
15:01 mircea_popescu nicoleci all new.
15:02 asciilifeform new, bleedin' edge
15:02 mircea_popescu anyway, the idea is mostly to permit "journa" tards get a documentation point for their shitty markov chain processes of wordsalading ; and i suppose for the internet cucks to wank at.
15:02 BingoBoingo Hopefully with productive bleeding to edge ratio
15:03 nicoleci ok ill use the standardized greeting and potentially take notes.. and contact info if possible
15:04 * mircea_popescu recalls in the early 2010s in romania, varios 0 value local niggers (who thought themselves important, much like the above mentioned Abdala Nobodyonastick) kept calling my secretary and having various brainstop moments on the phone.
15:04 mircea_popescu because totally, if ro anontard is poor then everyone and everything he might see or hear is equally poor anontard.
15:05 mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6 what do you think << yeah! Sounds good. I put together a thing, lemme dig it out...
15:05 mod6 nicoleci: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IFdDG/?raw=true
15:06 BingoBoingo In further profiles of the MUGA guy https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/quien-es-el-millonario-que-quiere-ser-candidato-blanco-y-debe-millones-al-brou-20181012151830
15:06 mod6 Nice talkin' to ya, btw. I know it was short, but I didn't wanna burn your time or call money.
15:07 asciilifeform mod6: it's a nickel/min, not exactly megabux
15:07 nicoleci mod6, thanks, you too! lol you definitely surprised me, i thought i was dreaming of the channel for a second
15:07 BingoBoingo The nugget there is Mr. MUGA is the fellow keeping Uruguay's legal cannabis market from collapsing
15:07 mod6 heheh. :]
15:09 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo by his own habit ?
15:10 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: By doing his damnest to do the industrial garden thing
15:10 mircea_popescu a ok...
15:10 BingoBoingo Produce product to spec within insaneland limits
15:11 BingoBoingo Megablog on that situation is still baking, should not cross into five figure wordcount
15:14 BingoBoingo But the short of it is he has one of the several firms contracted for filling government dope baggies with product for pharmacy distribution. Manages to actually accomplish that task.
15:14 mircea_popescu five figure no crime
15:15 BingoBoingo This, in a country where milk was recently imported from Brasil and Spain
15:16 mircea_popescu no moar cows in uruguay ?
15:16 BingoBoingo Plenty of cows
15:16 mircea_popescu or let me guess, they all went to college, cutting up paper now.
15:16 BingoBoingo Labor trouble
15:16 BingoBoingo Cows do their job, people who carry on from the cow's work fail to do so
15:17 mircea_popescu sucks
15:18 BingoBoingo Wat do?
15:21 BingoBoingo The socialism has run to the point things are breaking, and... Bahamas doesn't do, Trump does
15:22 mircea_popescu heh.
15:22 mircea_popescu "manspreading" is a thing, femfatting is not a thing, rite rite.
15:25 * asciilifeform recalls mircea_popescu's fetlife picz, and ugh
15:26 mircea_popescu she is literally laughing at you, alf. recalling ? you mean tigdic ?
15:26 asciilifeform there was a 'hamplanet' thing
15:27 mod6 meat
15:27 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/the-lolz-inflation-continues-unabated
15:27 mircea_popescu i know. hence "she is literally laughing at you".
15:27 mircea_popescu LITERALLY.
15:27 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
↖
15:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lolwho, the subj ?!
15:27 asciilifeform holyhell, mircea_popescu imported that one ?!
15:28 mircea_popescu I WAS MAKING A SARCASTIC REMARK
15:28 mircea_popescu apparently it has the capacity to whoosh BOTH WAYS over your ehad!
15:28 asciilifeform lol for a sec i almost believed
15:28 asciilifeform at this point i can believe many things
15:29 asciilifeform in related zoological lulz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B53JOuVU7_0 apparently happens
↖
15:38 nicoleci asciilifeform, jesus - bad time to voice myself. maybe the raccoon saw those fetlife pictures.. mp was saying he needs more gross shit on his blog
15:45 asciilifeform i for 1 am fascinated. i dun recall mice, rats, doing this.
15:46 asciilifeform and i've emptied my share of mousetrap.
15:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861369 << oblig >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-24#641281
15:47 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 19:27 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
15:47 a111 Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
15:52 mircea_popescu lol FOUR YEARS
15:52 asciilifeform eh 54
15:52 asciilifeform was hruschev-era thing
15:52 mircea_popescu i meant the logbridge
15:52 asciilifeform aa
15:53 asciilifeform indeed
~ 57 minutes ~
16:50 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=49 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/09/2018
16:53 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/dies-irae/ << Trilema - Dies irae
~ 15 minutes ~
17:08 asciilifeform meanwhile in upstack lulz: asciilifeform discovered that a good % of prb returns NOTHING to getaddr command. how the fuck do these people connect to peers ? ( i'ma guess some gavintronic-over-https curated nonsense )
~ 32 minutes ~
17:40 mircea_popescu iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
↖
17:44 mircea_popescu meanwhile here's something for alf : https://image.ibb.co/c0mH19/boypussy.jpg
17:51 nicoleci mircea_popescu, lol
17:51 nicoleci what a gem.
17:52 mircea_popescu seems perfect prison toy.
17:53 mircea_popescu come to think of it, i suppose this would be the pinnacle of perversity : to get titfixed women smuggled into prison for your amusement, but only ever fuck them in the ass.
17:53 mircea_popescu "couldnt you just use the other prisoners then ?!" "eh, what's the subversive fun in that."
17:58 asciilifeform lol wtf is that
17:58 asciilifeform and did they stitch it from the torsos of the dead or wut
17:58 mircea_popescu according to her, that's a boy just like you!
17:59 mircea_popescu no, that's how mammary resection looks like.
17:59 asciilifeform lol my init thought was eunuch
18:03 mircea_popescu sorta, i guess.
~ 44 minutes ~
18:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861392 << if mircea_popescu or anybody else recalls the thread, plox to link
18:47 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 21:40 mircea_popescu: iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
~ 38 minutes ~
19:26 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Latest update from Venezuala is that none of the 4 cars in the garage work, but the motocicleta does.
19:29 hanbot BingoBoingo: I went to send your WU, but either someone I traded with back in the days of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817953 that is based in Peru did Something Bad(tm), or else I dunno, your gf? In any case they're doing this entire song & dance about how "there's an alert" and "i gotta talk to a lawyer to justify...it's not clear what or why or to whom", entirely contentless fluff.
19:29 a111 Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment.
19:29 hanbot I don't think I'ma bother to debug their nonsense, as far as I'm concerned Western Union was never even marginally useful for any purpose I can think of. But obviously they did carefully write down all the details before not doing any work, so I dunno...advanced warning I guess? Not sure how much the shitpile can be relied on.
19:29 hanbot Anyway, I'm going to get it settled tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
19:30 mircea_popescu lmao did you get banned from fetunion ?
19:30 BingoBoingo hanbot: Thank you for the update
19:31 hanbot mircea_popescu i'm not even sure, their banhammer is like a pile of weird noodles.
19:31 mircea_popescu if only they still had paypal.
19:31 hanbot loller.
19:32 mircea_popescu if this ends up settled by the mailing of a large quantity of alfajores... keks
19:33 BingoBoingo lol
19:33 mircea_popescu hanbot it's not entirely clear, is the idea that you're the terrorist ? or that he is the terrorist ?
19:33 BingoBoingo alfajores, standing cattle, grains, we'll figure something out
19:33 asciilifeform hanbot: mysteriously, 100% of my wu worked (1st one barfed 1ce, rinsed and repeated, then ok for 6mo )
19:33 mircea_popescu western bunion deplatforming pizarro! conspiraci!
19:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform same barf ?
19:34 hanbot mircea_popescu i think if you ask why, a terrorist is you.
19:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: was nameless eggog
19:34 hanbot seriously though it's not at all clear.
19:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this shit doesn't actually work in any sense, does it.
19:34 asciilifeform hanbot: one time i caught a wu monkey and squeezed an answer from it, 'corp office forbidden by dhs to say why not worked'
19:35 hanbot lol!
19:35 mircea_popescu which is the dhs ? human services ?
19:35 asciilifeform homeland stupidity
19:35 mircea_popescu highland securities ?
19:35 mircea_popescu ah.
19:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as i said, i sent'em for 6mo in a row with 0 eggog afterwards
19:35 asciilifeform in my experience, after you get 1 working shot, it's cached
19:35 mircea_popescu but i mean... you understand how little sense this makes, neither of this has anything to do... oh, cuz wu is a us thing.
19:36 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo do you have some local remitter in that neck of the woods ?
19:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's a us thing. and used 99+% by mexicans et al to send moolah to home goatfuck village
19:36 mircea_popescu ie, cut the usgtards out of loop entirely ?
19:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it meanwhile dawned on me. why the fuck would wu even be part of this conversation.
↖
19:36 asciilifeform dollars to doughnuts there's a clone that lives in cr and uy ( and not usa )
19:36 asciilifeform that'd work perfectly for hanbot -> bb
19:36 mircea_popescu you'd think. or whatever, latam.
19:36 asciilifeform aha
19:36 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: There's a couple local in uruguay services, will look into it
19:37 mircea_popescu that'd be halpful.
19:37 BingoBoingo I dun know if any of them talk outside uruguay
19:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: wtf would be the point of a wu spampal that only worx ~in~ 1 place
19:38 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: So people can stand in line to send payments
19:38 BingoBoingo Fuckers like standing in line
19:38 asciilifeform nao if only they'd get the fuck with the program and invent btc in uy...
19:39 asciilifeform i dare say it's almost like we have screwdriver, but ~nobody's come up with screws yet
19:40 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you mean they're sending money to themselves ?
19:40 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: lol , send to where ? across the street ?!
19:41 BingoBoingo They send money across town, to the interior, to the bill collectors
19:41 mircea_popescu every day we discuss imperial "money" and its working is another day nothing makes any fucking sense at all.
19:41 asciilifeform i dun get it at all, BingoBoingo . they pay $ to send 'across town' ?!
19:41 asciilifeform why not carry it on the tram, lol
19:41 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo oh like a "we're too poor to sell tickets/collect bills, so use this mob-like scam ticketfuckery.com" sorta thing ?
19:42 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Tram asks too much
19:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform because lots and lots of "companies" can't actually afford counter.
19:42 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: AHA
19:42 asciilifeform and they aint invented cheques yet ?
19:42 mircea_popescu so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc.
19:42 BingoBoingo Except instead of .com it's a storefront/kiosko
19:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they disinvented cheques because copier is a thing and well... even in the 70s us it was quite iffy.
19:42 hanbot <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: So people can stand in line to send payments << lol truth
19:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we have these in usa. they're used by 'cash economy' folx to pay isp etc
19:43 mircea_popescu right.
19:43 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc. << AHA, abitab, RedPagos, etc
19:43 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: here EVERYONE uses them
19:43 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: in principle it's possibly healthy, means they're avoiding banks / electrofiatola
19:45 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ok, but not that, specifically remittance. "send your paycheck to wife back in nicaragua" sorta things.
19:45 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: good % of classical usg totalitarian bullshit is enforced through 'employer pays into yer bank, which reports erry penny'
19:45 mircea_popescu pestilential enough here.
19:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and by "good %" we mean all of it -- usg would end tomorrow if employers had to pay in cash.
19:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: either that or they'd have to return to 18th c. tax collection methods.
19:46 asciilifeform with physical bag man.
19:46 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Will explore those options. I suspect there might be something.
19:46 mircea_popescu about as doable as phones returning to 1950s state of the art. with maidens and spokes.
19:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: reportedly ru mil still using maidens-with-spokes.
19:47 asciilifeform at least for some % of callz
19:47 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo if found it's good to have from a purely http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846382 exercise ; but anyway, tis getting settled.
19:47 a111 Logged on 2018-09-01 00:38 mod6: mircea_popescu does have a point re 'freedom of navigation' tho. but ya, if it doesn't matter to BingoBoingo, I'm game.
19:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform relatively easier to get the few maidens nobody wants to fuck than to press into service the few maidens everyone wants to fuck.
19:48 asciilifeform i'm looking at my notes, and seems like erry wu i ever sent ( and i sent a good coupla dozen ) took 2 shots (per new addressee)
19:48 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Definitely.
19:49 asciilifeform i dunno what cockroaches are in the pertinent heads... 'terrorist will never try 2x' ? nfi
19:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe they had to get the right agents at teh right office!
19:49 asciilifeform or to reboot ms excel. whoknows
19:50 asciilifeform wu even spams me nao. in spanish, no less. 'wai you no send lately' approx
19:51 asciilifeform oh i should note, had to get 'account' for it to work
19:52 asciilifeform sending a 1shot never worked , from here
19:52 mircea_popescu wait, accounts ?!
19:52 mircea_popescu doesnt' this literally defeat the whole purpose of the whole thing ?
19:52 mircea_popescu i thought i was being funny with the paypal throwaway.
19:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859416
19:53 a111 Logged on 2018-10-08 15:57 mircea_popescu: pretty much all the empire shit works by this "only way to get an x is to link an x' to an y' to the x" device. by now it's actually usable as an empire-detecting heuristic.
19:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but i mean isn't the point of this whole wu business that you just walk into an office and send someone a few benjies ?
19:53 asciilifeform it only started to work once i fed it a name, addr, and cc.
19:53 mircea_popescu heh ok.
19:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: usg.verboten, apparently
19:53 mircea_popescu im behind the times.
19:54 asciilifeform 'benjie in, benjie out' is only at hawaladar counter.
19:54 mircea_popescu is eating still permitted in the usgulag, or also meanwhile verboten ?
19:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: permitted for nao, but ~1000% 'tax' if you want actual food...
19:55 asciilifeform ( this is not seekrit, if you want actual phood in usa, you pay like on space station )
19:55 mircea_popescu ein anderes, why not.
19:55 asciilifeform the astonishing bit imho is that they carry this nonsense over to e.g. cr office.
19:55 asciilifeform but i suppose consistent.
19:56 mircea_popescu the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
↖
19:56 mircea_popescu make more than from coke in a few short years.
19:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey, if local morons still act as if they lived in usg zone, notwithstanding they make 5k a year or so...
19:56 asciilifeform anybody with pile of benjie could do it right nao, simply eat/shit btc on site. but for some reason these folx allergic to btc ? i haven't the faintest idea
19:58 mircea_popescu i expect bulk of the nonsense is still guy runs away to work, wants to send dough back to wife.
19:58 mircea_popescu gotta start firebombing wu "offices" / shooting anyone trying to work there in the head to interdict their sapping of this market.
19:58 mircea_popescu then it'll work.
19:58 mircea_popescu the fundamental problem with "we'll permit cattle to have their usg.thing and we'll do the right thing" is that why exactly is usg getting the cheap and easy fruit ?
19:59 mircea_popescu no such free lunch, let ustards and ustard-wannabes pay for gas for armorer car to go from embassy to wu and back. like teh arabs do it.
19:59 asciilifeform the hilarity is that the 'terrorists' ( goat-flavoured orcs ) have 0 prob with the idjicy, they have their hawala
19:59 asciilifeform in-wot orc btc.
20:00 asciilifeform goin' strong for 1000+yrs nao
20:00 mircea_popescu im curious what'll be the Mocky reports on that.
20:00 asciilifeform i'll be at least slightly surprised if he manages to penetrate subj; but i like good surprises
↖
20:01 mircea_popescu why ?
20:01 mircea_popescu either it works or it doesn't.
20:01 asciilifeform as i understand, it worx b/c tight wot
20:01 mircea_popescu if it works it must work in the manner of things working.
20:01 asciilifeform rather than 'allcomer'
20:01 mircea_popescu mayhap.
20:02 asciilifeform usg hunts hawaladars as if they were ebola sprayers . but they still live.
20:03 mircea_popescu what, in qatar ?!
20:05 asciilifeform doubtful. but wherever the reich tendrils reach.
20:05 BingoBoingo If USG had that kind of pull in Qatar why nuclear waste trenches at the border?
20:05 asciilifeform ( europistan, asian shitholes, etc )
20:05 asciilifeform i still dun fully grasp the supposed usg feud with qatar -- iirc the latter sank couple $B into usg's 'moderate rebels'
↖
20:06 mircea_popescu can't say i do either.
20:06 mircea_popescu possibly infantile temper tantrum by whatever nuland cunt they have now.
20:06 asciilifeform gotta be
20:06 asciilifeform but to naked eye entirely inexplicable, qatar is possibly 1st or 2nd biggest sponsor of usg idjicy in the goatfuck deserts
20:06 mircea_popescu or was at any rate.
20:07 asciilifeform for all i know, still is, the gears grind slowly
20:09 mircea_popescu anyway, the problem is that not enough bitchslapping of stupid cunts who imagine "their oppinions on #ows" or w/e are sought or even possible as an abstract object. THAT is the true usg, the pile of moron dreamers.
20:10 asciilifeform dunno, they could all die of pox tonight and i suspect the lizards would shrug, less overhead
20:10 asciilifeform i dun grasp how 'dreamers' enable dhs etc
↖
20:10 asciilifeform they sum to ~0 as tax base, and do ~nuffin
20:11 BingoBoingo The dreamers fuel the their democracy fictional mandate
20:12 asciilifeform sure, but it's a theatrical production, with roughly same physical impact as footballism
20:12 asciilifeform nobody voted for dhs, dea, etc. yet there they are.
20:15 asciilifeform if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
↖
20:16 asciilifeform y'know, employed folx, who don't 'opinionate at #ows' or pollute fetlife or etc.
20:17 asciilifeform kinda why i wanted to get the fuck out since long before tmsr. i'm buying hitler's lunch and it's stomach-turning.
20:19 asciilifeform iirc mod6 , ben_vulpes , trinque , admitted to similar thought, in l0gz.
20:20 BingoBoingo Kinda how I ended up in the Home Despot garden department before taking off to Uruguay.
20:27 asciilifeform upstack, i suspect mircea_popescu has the answ to the riddle of why bitcoin hasn't killed wu et al -- orcs still perceive having the option not to use btc
20:27 asciilifeform the 'hallucinated choice'(tm)(r) thing
20:28 asciilifeform it's mindboggling, all sorts of folx whom seemingly 'god himself made for btc', e.g. malware racket, still use spampals/dwollas/etc as if year were 2008
20:29 asciilifeform and they're regularly gassed, wherever, thailand or pretty much any turd world shithole, usg dun even have to break a sweat
20:29 asciilifeform all they gotta do is to follow the spampal usd etc
20:30 asciilifeform part of the puzzler i suspect lies in the continued operation of the waterfall
20:30 asciilifeform idjit orcs would rather die, apparently, than risk exch rate swing
20:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu had an old piece where mentioned orcs all over saving in usd, hanging on to erry benjie like it were a shard of the trooo cross. ~that~ is 1 of the elephants on which usg stands.
20:33 asciilifeform if they started saving in btc instead, there'd be 'hawaladar' to fill their appetite on erry street corner, from sahara to patagonia
20:33 asciilifeform but apparently no dice.
20:33 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/la-florida-and-other-places
20:34 asciilifeform yes!
20:35 asciilifeform naturally cattle cannot operate a btctron. they'd have to delegate it to an actual person. but even ~these~ , in orcistan, seem to prefer to stash up usd.
20:35 asciilifeform ...because dream of miami ? i've nfi.
20:37 asciilifeform fwiw it appears that BingoBoingo presently houses the ONLY actual btc noadz in BingoBoingostan... per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859945
20:37 a111 Logged on 2018-10-10 01:22 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
20:37 asciilifeform so not much surprise that there aint a lively otc market.
20:37 BingoBoingo trinque: has one here
20:37 asciilifeform i meant the rack as a whole
20:38 BingoBoingo Ah
20:40 asciilifeform returning upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861511 , the fact that they haven't, is imho serious support for asciilifeform's traditional hypothesis of the dope folx being ~symbionts~ of usg , rather than antagonists
20:40 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 23:56 mircea_popescu: the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
20:41 asciilifeform without usg's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817099 thing, there's be as much 'dope cartel' as there is aspirin cartel.
20:41 a111 Logged on 2018-05-22 23:35 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816718 << hah, i originally watched it for the same reason, and the only thing i even remember is burroughs sitting in the chair, and spitting the "narcotics" prediction in his famous squeaky voice
20:42 asciilifeform the dope people, by all indications, ~luvvv~ usd. and none of the 'remittance policing' exists at any level that'd bother'em.
20:46 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
20:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861550 << the confessional fervor of this fellow...
20:56 a111 Logged on 2018-10-13 00:15 asciilifeform: if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
20:56 mircea_popescu "worst sinner is i!"
20:58 mircea_popescu meanwhile in "i don't think you know what those words mean", "I’m a geek person and I’m kinda nerd as well. I’m studying in human sciences and I’m a dancer. Also, I'm a young mom of a sweet lil girl who is 2 years old! :3"
20:58 mircea_popescu chick's 21, with a 3 yo and she thinks she's anything but barefoot and pregnant indian camp follower.
~ 32 minutes ~
21:30 trinque I figure the sin's lazily evaluated; did you liberate some cash from usg and thus liberate your own arse, or not.
21:32 mircea_popescu in other wtf : does https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! redirect to some weird website for anyone ? because wtf is going on here, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us works as expected.
21:33 trinque yep, userstyles.org
21:33 trinque nfi
21:35 mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KgnGR/?raw=true << full barfola.
↖
21:36 mircea_popescu apparently the duckduckgo site itself is pwned ?
21:36 mircea_popescu ie, it returns a redirect from the correct ip (at least i see duckduckgo.com. 403 IN A 23.21.193.169 here ?)
21:39 mircea_popescu obscure spamdomain from liuke... the 2000s.
21:41 phf mircea_popescu: http://duckduckgo.com/bang
21:42 mircea_popescu but why does it do it for q=us! ? shouldn't it be q=!us then ?
21:43 mircea_popescu nfi what fucking "geek roots", anyway. but w/e.
21:43 phf mircea_popescu: it seems like either end works, i sometimes use !g and g! also works
21:43 mircea_popescu i'm not at all pleased with this convenience.
21:43 mircea_popescu and it's about as geek as your average yuppie, also!
21:44 mircea_popescu da fuck, english pronoun followed by exclamation point is a redirect because "greek roots" ? nonsense!
21:56 phf i just noticed that the geek roots thing links to #!, quite idiotic
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
22:57 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861590 << what curl args to replicate this ?
22:57 a111 Logged on 2018-10-13 01:35 mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KgnGR/?raw=true << full barfola.
22:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform curl --trace filename
22:58 mircea_popescu i find it extremely useful, btw.
22:58 mircea_popescu large part of why wget is a lulz to me, like water pistol.
22:59 asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oXo6i/?raw=true << mine
22:59 asciilifeform loox to be largely same as mircea_popescu's
22:59 asciilifeform tbf i have nfi what it looked like yesterday or prior
23:00 mircea_popescu um. no, actually, yours looks like legit page, not redirect.
23:00 mircea_popescu was this "https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us!" ?!
23:00 asciilifeform lol i only read as far as the cert
23:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope, plain url
23:00 mircea_popescu ah, no that specifically.
23:02 asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0t1Fp/?raw=true << with that url.
23:02 asciilifeform ( why curl refuses to put the url in the debug dump, is mystery to me )
23:03 asciilifeform btw i get diff ip on erry shot
23:03 asciilifeform i think they use a balancer thing
23:03 mircea_popescu um. so what, "bangs" only work for me ?
23:03 asciilifeform loox like.
23:04 mircea_popescu such bullshit...
23:05 asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Q0xYA/?raw=true << via pizarro
23:07 asciilifeform btw lulzily, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! loaded via www browser -- redirects to https://userstyles.org/
23:07 asciilifeform but loox like it's done via jsolade
23:08 asciilifeform so indeed, 'bangs' -- work here. just not from curl's pov.
23:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ftr asciilifeform doesn't see ddg as somehow less unsavoury than google et al. if it were baked by honest folx it wouldn't https.
23:10 asciilifeform thing has slightly, barely measurably, less censored outputs, but that's pretty much it
23:10 asciilifeform approx on par with e.g. 'yandex'.
23:10 phf asciilifeform: i assume this is part of "block all google on ip level" program
23:11 asciilifeform doomed, incidentally, approach -- they own (and undocumentedly) a good chunk of ipv4
23:12 mircea_popescu well, i used to think that maybe ; but this level of utterly idiotic bs is convincing me otherwise.
23:12 mircea_popescu in fairness, web search accounts for roughly 0% of my web use anyway, so...
23:12 asciilifeform i strongly suspect that ddg is exactly 'hushmail'
23:13 mircea_popescu i'll dump "search engine" as a category, same bit bucket "email" as a concept went, np.
23:13 asciilifeform i.e. 'classy' usg honeypot for 'we are 133337 and h8t3 google'
23:14 * asciilifeform uses searchtrons perhaps 98% for eggog strings, 1% for electronic parts purchase, and 1% remain
23:15 mircea_popescu i generally use for fidning trilema articles when too lazy to bring up mysql terminal.
23:15 asciilifeform btw was there particular reason mircea_popescu never exposed wp search box on his www ? ( cpu miser ? )
23:16 mircea_popescu they're marginally less aggravation in "oh, never heard of that page" than they're productive in "well, dun have to unlock key"
23:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform cuz i have one in mysqld ?
23:16 asciilifeform rright, but why not keep it publicly. asciilifeform for instance does.
23:16 asciilifeform that way other folx also can search trilema without feeding the beast.
23:17 mircea_popescu all searches take 1-2s, you realise. course i do the luxurious LIKE "%x%" format.
23:18 asciilifeform until recently i also 'why should phuctor have search, i can search in postgres console'
23:19 asciilifeform i also get the added pheature of seeing ~what~ folx search for
23:19 asciilifeform whereas back when they were stuck massaging google, didn't
23:19 asciilifeform ( google in particular no longer reliably forwards keywords in refer hdr )
23:20 mircea_popescu i'd just get 5bn bots "searching" for the usual crap.
23:20 phf asciilifeform: correct approach is to download entire trilema and index it locally. folks who don't bother to do that have no business searching it :>
23:20 mircea_popescu ^
23:20 mircea_popescu i do not even kid, the 5bn figure is ~accurate.
23:20 asciilifeform phf: lol, rsync
23:20 asciilifeform emerge --update trilema
23:20 mircea_popescu lmao
23:21 asciilifeform laff, but given cuntoo, it ~could~
23:21 mircea_popescu you know, the future may even be the right move.
23:21 mircea_popescu but anyway, i believe "local search box" is utterly wrong cut.
23:22 mircea_popescu sorta like "bag of yes/no peas".
23:22 asciilifeform i search my www, small as it is, surprisingly often. and i like that i neither have to use google or unsheath the launch codes, to do it.
23:22 asciilifeform and can see what others searched in it.
23:22 mircea_popescu search, esp fulltext search, gets very expensive with larger datasets.
23:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: phuctor goes in <1s
23:23 asciilifeform across ~40GB .
23:23 asciilifeform not so expensive.
23:23 mircea_popescu http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/search?q=cuckoo << nb even.
23:23 asciilifeform trick lies in indices, so that 40G dun get walked erry time, elementarily
23:24 mircea_popescu yes, but i think your 40gb figure is misleading.
23:25 mircea_popescu ie, you have very many very short records.
23:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
↖ ↖
23:25 asciilifeform scales pretty well.
23:26 asciilifeform and yes they're short, but there's ~10mil of'em .
23:26 asciilifeform err, 100mil
23:26 mircea_popescu but trilema has the converse problem : there's ks of article, from 2kb to 200kb or so.
23:26 asciilifeform worx just as well
23:26 mircea_popescu hm. where's this trigraph thing ?
23:27 asciilifeform https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/pgtrgm.html for the interested.
23:27 asciilifeform i dunno what is the mysql equiv. presently
23:27 asciilifeform there gotta be one
23:28 mircea_popescu how do you mean "works just as well" ? The pg_trgm module provides functions and operators for determining the similarity of ASCII alphanumeric text based on trigram matching, as well as index operator classes that support fast searching for similar strings. << seems eminently based on birthday problem, "how many different permutations of 60 characters can there be"
23:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: takes yer search string, and cuts it into trigraphs, e.g. 'trigraph' -> 'tri':1 , 'rig':1 , 'igr':1, 'gra':1, 'aph':1
23:30 asciilifeform and matches these up with similarly processed indexed items
23:30 asciilifeform it's barbaric but seems to work great.
23:31 asciilifeform '60s, iirc, algo.
23:31 mircea_popescu no, i understand the concept ; what i don't understand is why you think this works well for wildly varied size records.
23:31 asciilifeform cuz size dun matter so much
23:31 mircea_popescu ie, what do you think is the trigram index of a 200kb file ?
23:32 mircea_popescu i guess there's no way out of implementing some inverse-index or i guess ngram really, to test this out. mebbe my intuition is entirely off
23:32 mircea_popescu but it'd seem the index would scale on an exponential of record size
23:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they're stored sparsely, loox like
23:33 mircea_popescu hm.
23:33 asciilifeform so you dun blow 127**3 / 8 == 256kB on ea. row
23:33 asciilifeform which you otherwise would
23:33 mircea_popescu you know ?
23:33 asciilifeform then thing loox for rows that ~could~ contain yer string
23:33 asciilifeform and then binarysearchates'em
23:33 asciilifeform simple enuff, on paper.
23:34 * asciilifeform brb
23:34 mircea_popescu well, i guess the right answer to your q is that i'm way too lazy to put the work into it ? i guess simplest approach would be to convert a set of trilema records to postgres, and try your pg_trgm thing on it.
23:37 mircea_popescu in other lulz https://dlnseo.org/content/flpb#sll << the languages usg fears.
23:37 mircea_popescu surprisingly short list.
~ 21 minutes ~
23:59 asciilifeform 'Military Services pay approximately $7M in FLPB to 27,000 Active Duty (24,000) and Reserve Component (3,000) Service members...' << lol!! what, ~2 benjies ea.?!
23:59 asciilifeform mega-'bonus'
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