00:56 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088163 << PoC||GTFO is good form to filter for quality. Though may cause issues in development when a PoC is impossible due to factors like system size, complexity and inability for meaningful co-operation etc. |
00:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 18:21:12 verisimilitude: I'm continually forced by practicality to write more basic versions of my systems first, crtdaydreams. |
| |
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~ |
02:15 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088054 I don't take medicine unless I be violently ill and it doesn't go away in a week or two. If I can endanger someone by not taking medicine, I want to endanger him, in fact. |
02:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 16:03:41 mats: oh good, more vaccine denialism |
02:20 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088152 Do away with using a text editor for programming entirely. |
| |
↖ |
02:20 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 17:25:17 crtdaydreams: ~reimplement~ emacs in cl won't cut it for a next-generation editor |
| |
~ 2 hours 10 minutes ~ |
04:31 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088184 << maybe one day ~if~ it's practical to do so and provides me with an expressiveness >= that of lisp. |
04:31 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 22:19:38 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088152 Do away with using a text editor for programming entirely. |
| |
~ 48 minutes ~ |
05:19 |
mats |
you're in good company if you're antisocial in this chan |
05:22 |
mats |
no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials |
| |
↖ ↖ |
05:24 |
mats |
reasonable people can debate the policy choices that were made, this isn't that |
| |
↖ |
05:33 |
signpost |
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/russia-open-to-sell-gas-for-bitcoin << yessss |
05:33 |
* |
signpost going to bed, but that belonged in here first. |
05:33 |
crtdaydreams |
Uhoh. Er updates on the Aussie front. Winnie is making a move on the Solomon Islands. |
05:34 |
crtdaydreams |
signpost: holy shit |
05:34 |
crtdaydreams |
sleep well |
05:37 |
verisimilitude |
What are the Solomon Islands? |
| |
↖ |
05:38 |
crtdaydreams |
LMGTFY |
| |
↖ |
05:39 |
crtdaydreams |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands |
05:40 |
crtdaydreams |
A strategic move i.e. Kokoda 2.0 |
05:40 |
crtdaydreams |
Also where the fiber optics lines run through. |
05:41 |
* |
crtdaydreams bbl |
| |
~ 3 hours 3 minutes ~ |
08:44 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088196 << Apologies. That was actually very rude and unnecessary given the context. I did not mean to be condescending, it's just all to common with the types I typically deal with. |
08:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 01:37:08 verisimilitude: What are the Solomon Islands? |
08:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 01:37:58 crtdaydreams: LMGTFY |
08:45 |
crtdaydreams |
\o vex |
08:45 |
vex |
it's only heya |
08:45 |
vex |
just saw honiara mentioned in da logs |
08:46 |
crtdaydreams |
ye, chinese making a power move |
08:47 |
vex |
chinatown was on fire 3 moons ago |
08:47 |
crtdaydreams |
really? |
08:47 |
* |
crtdaydreams reading thread |
08:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-26 20:20:20 vex: meanwhile, In da solomons https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-27/solomon-islands-riots-honiara/100654100 |
08:49 |
crtdaydreams |
unrelated classic: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-27#1067776 |
08:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-27 01:00:54 vex: Who is your daddy and what does he do? |
08:49 |
crtdaydreams |
vex: got any rain? |
08:50 |
vex |
that's be telling |
08:50 |
crtdaydreams |
aw |
08:51 |
vex |
go ask bingo |
08:51 |
crtdaydreams |
I don't think I've talked to bingo yet |
08:54 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG-kU8aOt6U loving the logs these days |
| |
↖ |
08:56 |
vex |
i don't know the words, but I whistle along |
08:56 |
crtdaydreams |
vex: mangol? |
08:56 |
vex |
not me. i'm .au |
08:56 |
crtdaydreams |
vex: ye |
08:57 |
vex |
lemon larry.? I like him |
08:58 |
vex |
mango lassi. heavy on the bhang |
08:59 |
vex |
nice www btw |
08:59 |
crtdaydreams |
ty |
09:00 |
vex |
reading back thu old t logs; it's dissapointing to finf tubler .bait rotted |
09:01 |
vex |
.bait was a bot command on #ozcoin, pulled up rando tubler soft pron |
09:01 |
crtdaydreams |
pffft hehehehe |
09:02 |
crtdaydreams |
Didn't know of #ozcoin, logs? Or lost to bitrot? |
09:02 |
vex |
old aussie mining pool |
09:03 |
crtdaydreams |
yeah? get much surface area in #t? |
09:03 |
vex |
onlt rubler porn afik |
09:03 |
crtdaydreams |
lel |
09:04 |
vex |
mp replaced the soft with hard |
09:04 |
crtdaydreams |
vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gARa8Jwljvo |
09:05 |
crtdaydreams |
hehe |
09:07 |
crtdaydreams |
aw shit, just had new smoke alarms installed, no fire and no smoke and it won't shut up all of a sudden |
09:07 |
crtdaydreams |
not even cooking anythin |
09:07 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088220 << head banger |
09:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 04:53:16 vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG-kU8aOt6U loving the logs these days |
09:11 |
crtdaydreams |
vex: funny can opener design |
09:12 |
vex |
is that big trucks going under a smol bridge? |
09:13 |
crtdaydreams |
yis |
09:13 |
vex |
i seen it on vidya already |
09:13 |
crtdaydreams |
oh kewl |
09:14 |
crtdaydreams |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJel0WyGPqQ |
09:15 |
crtdaydreams |
brb in 10~ |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
09:30 |
crtdaydreams |
close enuff |
09:36 |
vex |
I've seen mats niger too |
09:38 |
vex |
boko haaram or whatever |
09:38 |
vex |
callind dpb. thew ekids need schrist |
09:44 |
vex |
stones no longer safe on earth |
09:44 |
* |
vex choozes to snooze |
| |
~ 42 minutes ~ |
10:26 |
crtdaydreams |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8AfIeJOxw |
10:29 |
jonsykkel |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087042 << ye sad stuf, need to invent silicon printer kitchen appliance how hard can be |
10:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-22 09:59:26 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087001 << some yrs ago asciilifeform set about designing one, then hit the 'no usable fpga' problem |
10:29 |
jonsykkel |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-23#1087346 << did some experiments like this too, with photo diode taped to monitor and scope trigger on keyboard switch. not xtremly intresting results since just testing same computer+os with keyboard that can both usb and ps/2, wanted to see specifically diff between these. but method was decent |
10:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-23 12:55:08 asciilifeform: ..and related. |
10:29 |
jonsykkel |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088189 << <1year long trial not worth much for predicting wat will happen in >1year time, even if done correctestly |
| |
↖ |
10:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 01:22:11 mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials |
10:29 |
jonsykkel |
we come across gun lying on ground, i get idea hey lets try aim at ur face and pull trigger. u complain about risk. i respond that ur claims are unfounded, wheres the evidence that tehers bullet in chamber?? |
10:29 |
jonsykkel |
nobody knows = risky, definitionally |
10:30 |
jonsykkel |
dont se much evidence either htat teh vax isnt just adding aditional risk on top of risk from virups |
| |
~ 23 minutes ~ |
10:53 |
crtdaydreams |
if it were a water hose but you don't know if the tap is on would it still be "risky" in the same sense? |
10:56 |
jonsykkel |
nah, i guess chacnes that water hose is connected to lava tap or smth are low |
10:57 |
crtdaydreams |
er, the point was that the risk isn't in knowledge (in this case, the lack thereof) but context |
10:57 |
jonsykkel |
i think default assumption shoudl be that puting weird chemicals into ur body is more like gun scenario |
10:57 |
crtdaydreams |
ofc. but to others it's more like the hose. |
10:57 |
jonsykkel |
sure |
11:00 |
crtdaydreams |
shrodigners squirt gun |
11:12 |
jonsykkel |
most people have quite a bit of experience with water hoses to base their heuristics on at least |
11:12 |
jonsykkel |
u are right its not the knowledge exactly |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
11:29 |
crtdaydreams |
not abt being right, just thinking orthogonally |
11:31 |
crtdaydreams |
slehp time o/ |
11:32 |
mangol |
a weird-looking, overcomplicated kind of hose that nobody knows much about, connected to one of ~three reich-approved hose providers. people who'd like a traditional hose instead, or to drink from a glass, are treated with suspicion. and come to think of it, you're not really that thirsty to begin with. |
11:35 |
mangol |
approved "new and improved hose" providers are making gigabucks out of the enterprise by selling hose to govt's all over the world on rapid schedule. said govt's give the impression that they generally have nfi what to do about sudden problem of mass thirst, but surely these people know which hose to buy from what provider. no money and power at stake whatsoever. |
11:36 |
mangol |
and that's before masks / lockdowns / censorship / vaxxed people are still infected and still transmit virus |
11:39 |
mangol |
given all that, the main problem is still not covid or vax, but the urgency with which people are compelled to upgrade their mind to the latest reich software |
11:39 |
mangol |
same mood and tone of voice as "everyone must now be climate alarmist", "everyone must now help refugees feel at home", etc. |
11:41 |
jonsykkel |
new and improved, upgraded and updated, nano tech high tech hose |
11:41 |
mangol |
yeah, golden toilet as asciilifeform likes to say |
11:42 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088190 << this is the mood and attitude that they want college educated people to have |
| |
↖ |
11:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 01:24:01 mats: reasonable people can debate the policy choices that were made, this isn't that |
11:42 |
jonsykkel |
very useful term in current times |
11:42 |
mangol |
next level up is huffÃpot-esque "believe the science", "we are learning" |
11:42 |
mangol |
*huffpost |
| |
~ 31 minutes ~ |
12:14 |
mangol |
afaict The Atlantic is the standard bearer for the kind of "concerned, informed" disposition that the want educated people to have |
12:14 |
mangol |
prints hilarious waffle like this: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/deep-shtetl/62041a299277230021ae9f0c/follow-the-science-joe-rogan-steven-shapin/ |
12:15 |
mangol |
bring on some academic to meander about and arrive at the conclusion that things are complicated and dissenters are vaguely threatening |
| |
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~ |
13:57 |
asciilifeform |
!q uptime |
13:57 |
dulapbot |
asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 282d 10h 54m |
13:58 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088285 << indeed is |
13:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 07:41:28 mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088190 << this is the mood and attitude that they want college educated people to have |
13:59 |
asciilifeform |
... meanwhile, cement testbed at 702k+. |
13:59 |
asciilifeform |
likely will finish sync in coupla days. |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
14:22 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
14:22 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $44921.29 |
14:23 |
billymg |
needs moar zeros |
14:23 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
14:24 |
asciilifeform |
wat, 5y+ nao since last new zero... |
14:24 |
asciilifeform |
( not counting the engineered crashes, lol ) |
14:28 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
14:28 |
watchglass |
Polling 15 nodes... |
14:28 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : Could not connect! |
14:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.021s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958 (Operator: whaack) |
14:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.276s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
14:28 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.306s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
14:28 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.329s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.603s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:28 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.661s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 |
14:29 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
14:29 |
watchglass |
103.6.212.28:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) (Operator: whaack) |
14:42 |
billymg |
ah, this reminded me. whaack, i queried the crawler's data to answer your question: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=t1N8 |
14:42 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-11 15:18:45 whaack: curious as to whether any heathen node ever returns a trb node as a peer |
14:42 |
billymg |
the last one that list is jonsykkel's new node |
14:42 |
bitbot |
(pest) 2022-03-18 jonsykkel[asciilifeform|billymg]: indeed, 85.164.243.42 is new ip since 5days ago |
14:48 |
billymg |
nothing appears to be wrong with the crawler either, its logs continue to print out "found new peer!" almost hourly (which it finds when it pings and gets a response from a previously unknown peer returned to it by the getaddrs call to an existing node) |
14:49 |
billymg |
i tried fiddling with the peershots knob (number of times it calls getaddr, since node list is incomplete in a single call) but the current "5" setting seems sufficient |
14:49 |
billymg |
peer list* |
14:51 |
billymg |
not really sure what to make of it, but i'll be adding this feature to the bot interface soon anyway |
14:51 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2021-08-11 16:32:02 asciilifeform: billymg: btw pheature req : see if can add a search box (where searches existing, and if not found, adds to scan queue) |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
15:16 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087152 << asciilifeform: signpost: |
15:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-22 15:22:43 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087104 << determined to first fart out vtronic linux, then get to this. |
15:17 |
mangol |
re file transfer over pest, would a "chunk of file" message type make sense? |
| |
↖ |
15:17 |
mangol |
message contains: file hash, byte offset in file, chunk length in bytes, and the data |
15:18 |
mangol |
this msg type could be re-used for every data transfer application that sends data with known hash |
15:20 |
mangol |
so a file is sent as over9k filechunk messages |
15:21 |
mangol |
could have a corresponding message "please send me (hash, chunk offset, chunk length) as one or more filechunk messages" |
15:22 |
mangol |
there's some waste since the filehash is duplicated in each message, but each message is self-describing so fault tolerance ought to be simpler to do |
15:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088333 << mno, it wouldn't, cuz packets reordered / lost. |
15:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 11:16:18 mangol: re file transfer over pest, would a "chunk of file" message type make sense? |
15:22 |
signpost |
mangol: encourge ya to read this paper |
15:22 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: see the 'luby', 'turbo code', etc. discussions |
15:23 |
asciilifeform |
aha and signpost's link |
15:23 |
signpost |
if using a fountain code, all nodes participating in the download can spray their block-streams at each other without regard to offsets, just as received. |
15:23 |
signpost |
and results in a highly efficient transfer. |
15:23 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: there's a # of smart algos for doing this ( dunno if yer old enuff to recall 'par' archiver on usenet; used the simplest such scheme ) |
15:26 |
signpost |
https://cs.nyu.edu/media/publications/TR2002-833.pdf << here's the formal description of the en/decoding scheme |
15:26 |
signpost |
but yeah, this is an extension of e.g. luby, etc |
15:36 |
mangol |
thanks! i read the linked paper. that's much fancier than what i proposed. |
15:37 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: a major win from such codes is that you dun need a synchronous (i.e. 'hey gimme #123') conversation, just need to say when to start sending random chunks, and ask to stop when done |
15:38 |
asciilifeform |
likewise, in principle several peers can send you chunks simult. |
15:38 |
asciilifeform |
( again w/out any handshaking ) |
15:38 |
mangol |
literally the asker says "send me some chunks of <hash of complete file>"? |
| |
↖ |
15:39 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
15:39 |
mangol |
and algorithm guarantees that sender(s) won't send all that many unnecesarry chunks |
15:42 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: typically there's a param which sets redundancy |
15:43 |
asciilifeform |
( which also depends on the net # of chunks sent, normally you will have some pt at which you stop even if receiver is silent, or you might shout into the void 4evah ) |
15:46 |
mangol |
could you have a setup where the sender always sends a batch of max. 10k random chunks, then stops. receiver asks for another batch if still needs more |
15:47 |
asciilifeform |
signpost, mangol : thinking about it, you prolly wouldn't want $hash to potentially represent e.g. 1tb file. instead pick a block size, e.g. 1M, and a given lubyism req oughta yield a 1M * redundancy_factor mass of packets. when req'ing a given $hash, if the file is <1M, you get the file, otherwise you get a merkleistic tree of subchunks which can then req. |
15:48 |
asciilifeform |
if you dun do this, potentially you get some rather gnarly random access spread on disk |
15:48 |
mangol |
looks reasonable at first glance |
15:48 |
mangol |
the maymounkov-bigdown paper talks about (ID, position) tuples. apparently the ID can be either peer ID or file ID |
15:48 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. you want an apriori known mass attached to any particular $hash. |
15:49 |
asciilifeform |
(max mass) |
15:50 |
mangol |
and an "index" of files available on a peer can be another bag-of-bytes |
15:51 |
mangol |
so peers can transmit indices using the same chunk mechanism |
15:51 |
mangol |
that they use to transmit the actual files indexed |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
index is a separate can of worms ( do you want subdirs, i.e. effectively ftp-style ? ) |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
but yes, transmitted same way, regardless of format |
15:52 |
mangol |
could also transmit chat logs, etc. |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: there's already a proper mechanism for logs (getdata) |
15:53 |
asciilifeform |
no reason to represent'em as file |
15:55 |
mangol |
getdata takes a hash. if you're new to the pestnet, you presumably don't know the hash of old messages |
15:55 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: you do, cuz they're chained |
15:55 |
asciilifeform |
you walk the chain. |
15:55 |
mangol |
ah right |
15:55 |
asciilifeform |
this is already implemented in thimbronion's blatta |
15:55 |
mangol |
start from most recent and go back in time |
15:55 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
15:56 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088353 << strictly speaking, "gimmeh blocks which have been produced using an xor scheme which blends a number of blocks respecting a constructed distribution of the original message by random selection" |
15:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 11:38:10 mangol: literally the asker says "send me some chunks of <hash of complete file>"? |
15:56 |
mangol |
that does take back-and-forth traffic, you ask for each msg separately |
15:56 |
signpost |
and maymounkov gives a proof that these "check blocks" can be used to produce the original message after no more than a specified amount of overrun |
15:57 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: it does. given what chat msgs weight it aint a bw concern tho |
16:01 |
signpost |
to reconstruct a message block, gotta start with at least one check block of degree 1, which means it's a straight copy of a message block. |
16:01 |
signpost |
single log messages are equivalent to these, cutting them smaller to encode would be less efficent than just resending the udp packet. |
16:02 |
signpost |
you decode by trying to solve message blocks for which all blocks with which they have an edge are solved, except one. |
16:03 |
signpost |
my py impl has this working, just oughta be parallel and isn't. |
16:03 |
* |
signpost can poast the CL item sometime after cleanup too. |
16:04 |
signpost |
(incomplete, there's a bug in the encoder somewhere) |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
16:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088262 << reich dispensed with all traditional pretenses of anyffin resembling objective stats gathering, publication of negatives, etc. -- not even necessarily because 'ohnoez, mega-death from dud vax' but, likely, simply to troll the noncompliant into tilt |
| |
↖ ↖ |
16:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 06:28:27 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088189 << <1year long trial not worth much for predicting wat will happen in >1year time, even if done correctestly |
16:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-08 23:07:16 asciilifeform: adlai: the beauty of it all is that it doesn't matter worth a fuck just HOW obvious the sham is. by so much as implying that yer aware of the sham, you instantly (to mats or other fella who hasn't 'shot the policeman inside his head') placing yourself into the company of the 'martians'. |
16:23 |
asciilifeform |
in lolcat planet's parlance -- 'shit test' |
16:23 |
signpost |
if pharmeceutical companies were known for their candor that'd be one thing, lol. |
16:28 |
asciilifeform |
'martianization' plays on the reich plebe's appetite for 'rezistenta prin cultura' (aka wank). it takes all of 10min to convincingly forge the handwritten vax receipt. but no, gotta wank, gotta picket, walk straight into the 'martian' 'free speech zone' conveniently set up by the herders. |
| |
↖ |
16:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 16:18:06 asciilifeform: signpost: 'martians' 'happened' to it |
16:29 |
asciilifeform |
cuz the sad fucks still subscribed to 'rule of law' bullshit, would sooner walk straight into oven than forge anyffin |
16:29 |
signpost |
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history << >> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/ |
| |
↖ |
16:29 |
signpost |
lolk |
16:30 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: and the plain fear that the system must work, or how will I sleep. |
16:30 |
signpost |
the american version of this is believing oneself to be "in on the lie" |
16:30 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: the pharma biz is a major component of the reich's 'intellectual property' racket |
16:30 |
asciilifeform |
right along with microshit et al |
16:31 |
asciilifeform |
reich satrapies pay tribute in exch for signed pieces of paper. meanwhile free world copies (the rare useful items) and laughs |
16:31 |
signpost |
martianization indeed. if I say I believe the incidence of vaccine side effects to be higher than they claim, this means antivax |
16:31 |
* |
signpost got the vax as soon as moderna's was available, even drove to a neighboring town where the trailer parks weren't bothering to use. |
16:31 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile little to no discussion of whether in fact worked in any sense at all. which is how they like it. |
16:32 |
asciilifeform |
getting the idjits preoccupied with 'but does it kill us' worked a++ in this regard. |
16:34 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: n-of-1, but I was discussing with my immunologist recently (getting allergy shots) that he's seeing boosted patients with immune disorders get *worse* covid. |
16:35 |
* |
asciilifeform won't attempt to telepsychoanalyze mats, but ftr does suspect that the 'ugh martians' trick to some degree worked on him. 'i'ma serious diploma'd fella, i can't sit for 5min in the company of 'martians did 9-11' velveeta-eaters for even 5min w/out retching' etc |
16:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 01:22:11 mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials |
16:35 |
* |
signpost asked what the fuck difference is there between endless shots of same vaccine and what he was doing to desensitize to pollen. |
16:36 |
signpost |
the reich outlets demanding I got get five more boosters when 1) had vax 2) had covid 3) have had antibody test with strong results... would welcome an explanation |
16:36 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: asciilifeform wouldn't be astonished if turned out (somehow. unlikely we'll find out) that most of the doses consisted of simply saline. |
| |
↖ |
16:37 |
signpost |
who knows, would prefer to live in a society where one could. |
16:37 |
mangol |
ime people who went to university and never questioned much feel their intelligence is insulted in the company of people who don't stay withing the indicated "debate zone" |
16:37 |
signpost |
and not "I'm in on the lie". |
16:38 |
mangol |
"this guy doesn't stay within the approved debate zone. if i take this guy to brunch with my friends, they'll make a fool out of me for hanging out with unhinged people like him" |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: reich stratagem is to set up a perceived dichotomy where yer either 'with the program' or out in 'the lonesome deep space', outside the city walls, in company of 'martians did 9-11', etc. illiterates/schizos |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ |
16:39 |
signpost |
mangol: something like "you are the reason we can't go back to the good times" |
16:39 |
signpost |
which itself is politically useful. |
16:39 |
mangol |
yep. can be seen clearly in covid response, "anti-mrna-vax-for-healthy-young-people" is lumped in with "anti any vax for anyone ever in history", no middle ground |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. choose b/w 'believe the science'(tm)(r) or 'flat earth' |
16:39 |
signpost |
aside the religious impulse in the left, state will assuage the terror before death. |
16:41 |
* |
asciilifeform finds plausible the old theory that the orig. 'antivax' meme was a product of '80s turnerite white-population-control schemes |
| |
↖ |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
seems to have worked a++, e.g. measles returned to the industrialized world |
16:41 |
* |
mangol suspect flat eartherism may be a shill operation to a large extent, to discredit conspiracy theory of any flavor |
16:42 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: reich efforts in this direction are persistent and well-funded |
16:42 |
asciilifeform |
1 objective is to prevent anyffin in the way of defection from reich academia |
16:43 |
asciilifeform |
gleichschaltung(tm)(r) |
16:44 |
signpost |
thing is the beoble gladly help generate these. |
16:44 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: that dichotomy works so well too. was having a discussion with someone here a few months back about the "fbi cracked the bitcoin keyz!" and explained that no, they didn't, and the media just lied about it. and his response was, "i bet you're one of those earth-is-actually-flat guys too" |
16:44 |
asciilifeform |
naturally |
16:44 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: worx a++ |
16:45 |
billymg |
"it's spelled Kiev, always has been" "flat earther!" |
16:45 |
signpost |
"thank god, I can stop thinking about whether the FBI can stop the bad on WaPo" |
16:46 |
billymg |
"women have vaginas" "terrorist!" |
16:46 |
billymg |
etc. |
16:46 |
asciilifeform |
( see also e.g. ancient agitprop lulz ) |
16:46 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: 'Stop buying into this bullshit. You're getting played. If it's not a "main stream" news source, that means they don't have anyone to answer to and nobody will lose their job if they report inaccurate information. You're not "woke" for reading alternate news, you're a dipshit. Rather than poring over old news clips to prove that 9/11, Sandy Hook, or the Boston Marathon was an "inside job," you should go outside and |
16:46 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: 'Now I know what you're thinking, "but Maddox, I have all my teeth!" You won't for long. People who read alternate news sites will eventually lose their teeth. It's an Anankean inevitability; you're going to do something stupid like put a firecracker in your mouth because you are stupid. Want to know how I know? Because you read bullshit instead of news, and you not only think you're informed, but that you're smart |
16:46 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: populace because you're doing your own independent research from an independent news source. Except you're not. You're an idiot who's going to lose all his teeth. These sites are using you for money...' << is not, however, false. |
16:46 |
billymg |
signpost: exactly |
16:47 |
signpost |
life is a shock to everyone; most people never recover. |
16:47 |
signpost |
and so what. |
16:47 |
billymg |
for people who missed out on bitcoin that type of thought is extremely comforting |
16:47 |
billymg |
"adults in the room still in control" |
| |
↖ |
16:47 |
signpost |
"yes sweetheart, your survival depends entirely upon people that *despise* you." |
| |
↖ |
16:47 |
signpost |
exactly right |
16:53 |
signpost |
billymg: these are all tentacles of the big one. |
16:53 |
signpost |
"you will die and no one can save you" |
16:57 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088448 << exactly. ime this is the psychological driver behind most exhortations of "get back in line!" |
16:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 12:46:57 billymg: "adults in the room still in control" |
16:58 |
mangol |
the other (somewhat less severe but still formidable) driver being "i'll be embarrassed while having brunch with my chic friends" |
16:59 |
signpost |
worth pointing out how fragile these relationships usually are. |
16:59 |
mangol |
it's incredible how tptb can keep lying and messing everything up through random combinations of malice and incompetence, and a great % of people just ask for more |
17:01 |
signpost |
mangol: what'd they do otherwise? |
| |
↖ |
17:02 |
signpost |
not throwing this in your face, but you were quick to point out the emptiness of that signed declaration. |
| |
↖ |
17:02 |
signpost |
might have to sit in the truth that they have no way to freedom. |
17:03 |
signpost |
most people will choose a lie, which is strange, because don't they see themselves telling it? somehow not. |
17:04 |
signpost |
on a completely other subj, just got a classic ipod, put 1tb SSD in, and I couldn't be more pleased with this device. |
| |
↖ |
17:04 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: how do you get files in/outta the thing ? |
17:05 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: surfaces itself as a USB block dev |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
a |
17:05 |
* |
signpost put "rockbox" firmware on it for flac, etc |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
presumably this was prior to crapple fucking the hdd emulation |
17:05 |
signpost |
it's a little weird, lies about the partition layout. I've had to boot apple firmware to get files into it reliably, but rockbox firmware can play just fine. |
17:06 |
signpost |
^ presumably to hide the firmware partition from connected puter |
17:06 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088459 << you can and should throw it in my face since i gave you a hard time about it :p |
17:06 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 13:01:28 signpost: not throwing this in your face, but you were quick to point out the emptiness of that signed declaration. |
17:06 |
signpost |
sure sure |
17:07 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088458 << 1 of the things they can do entirely for phree is to put down the rattles |
17:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 13:01:00 signpost: mangol: what'd they do otherwise? |
17:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-02-22 17:25:44 asciilifeform: spoiler : it does not matter how much you shake the rattle. or how big is your particular rattle. or even if you can get 1e9 fellow rattlers to shake theirs with you. |
17:07 |
signpost |
point being it's not clear from just seeing that, that signatory says to himself "I'm dead anyway, might as well spit teeth into oppressor's face" |
17:07 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: one of the reason's I got an iPod, detoxing from hand-rectangle. |
17:08 |
signpost |
*reasons |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
putting down the rattle costs 0. (i.e. stop voting, giving a shit about the 'candidates', what they do in the muppet threatre, etc) |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
costs 0 |
17:08 |
signpost |
costs something that bothers them, not you. |
17:08 |
signpost |
I'm not just being metal about bringing up death. |
17:09 |
* |
asciilifeform suspects that death feels much nearer for the rattlers than for tuned-out folx |
| |
↖ |
17:13 |
signpost |
it's near for everybody, but determines much whether a complex of denial accumulates on it, or what. |
17:14 |
signpost |
https://www.iflash.xyz/store/ << hd adapters for ipod |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
nifty |
17:14 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088483 << ambiguous. actual or metaphorical death? |
17:14 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 13:08:35 asciilifeform: suspects that death feels much nearer for the rattlers than for tuned-out folx |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: 'coward dies a thousand deaths, brave man -- one' sense |
17:15 |
mangol |
thousand deaths = have to look yourself in the mirror every morning and hate what you see? |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: mno, in the banal sense where they walk outta house and 'will i covid to death today' etc |
17:16 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088462 << heh, was just a few weeks ago thinking of doing the same with my old one (last i checked it still works, with the original mechanical drive) |
17:16 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 17:04:32 signpost: on a completely other subj, just got a classic ipod, put 1tb SSD in, and I couldn't be more pleased with this device. |
17:16 |
mangol |
right. will it be killer virus, killer extremists, killer food, killer climate |
17:17 |
signpost |
billymg: got 26hr battery left at 85% right now. mechanical hd took a lot of juice. |
17:17 |
billymg |
nice |
17:17 |
asciilifeform |
in ru space, the condition in which reich seeks to maintain plebe re 'thousand deaths' is called 'emotional seesaw' |
17:17 |
signpost |
iirc eventually skips too if running, so that problem goes away. |
17:18 |
signpost |
seller I snagged from had already upgraded the battery, so that might factor in too. |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
monday 'we'll all die', tues.: 'miracle cure! if we all cooperate and Believe The Science!' wed.: 'we'll all die horribly, and soon' thurs.: 'miracle cure, Science Worx!11' etc |
17:18 |
billymg |
signpost: what kind of ssd did it take? |
17:18 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: "borderline personality disorder" |
17:18 |
billymg |
when i looked up this process it included "find an adapter" |
17:19 |
signpost |
billymg: yeah linked above |
17:19 |
billymg |
ah ok |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: back when it was rare, was called 'maniac depressive' etc |
17:19 |
signpost |
can choose whether you want msata, sd card, w/e |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
today is the expected mental state of usaschwitz dweller. |
17:19 |
* |
signpost found a cheap 1tb msata, chose that. |
17:20 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: yep, it's what someone does when they're consumed by fear, and have coping mechanisms that suppress it for a while. |
17:20 |
signpost |
the manic end also chitters nervously, avoidantly. |
17:20 |
asciilifeform |
the chitter is the aimed condition, from reich pov |
17:21 |
signpost |
yeah, what'd nietzsche call it, blenchen or w/e |
17:21 |
asciilifeform |
chitterer is not at risk of rational thought, even for brief interval / by accident |
17:21 |
signpost |
"ooh shiny" |
17:21 |
signpost |
or your hill-climber. |
17:21 |
asciilifeform |
chitter occupies the forebrain, which could otherwise interfere w/ the hillclimber 'amoebic' hind |
17:21 |
signpost |
billymg: actually looking forward to pest p2p net to put e.g. album collections on there, among more important things. |
17:22 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: yeah, you're right, different parts of the beast. |
17:22 |
asciilifeform |
1337 w4r3z |
17:23 |
mangol |
me most are relieved to voluntarily suppress their thinking at the first opportunity |
17:23 |
mangol |
*ime most are |
17:23 |
billymg |
signpost: yeah, high time everyone returned to managing their own collection instead of relying solely on streaming services |
17:24 |
* |
signpost has upheld the tradition. |
17:24 |
signpost |
got a pile of vinyl too like any respectable hipster. |
17:24 |
mangol |
"a conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking". s/tired/afraid, works as well |
17:24 |
* |
asciilifeform never once used 'streaming services', with the exception of phree lolcattube linx on occasion |
17:25 |
* |
signpost had spotify for a bit, found it was detuning my preferences rather than meeting them. |
17:26 |
* |
billymg looks forward to perusing signpost's collection once available on pestnet |
17:26 |
billymg |
yeah, i got lazy during my saltmining years and switched to netflix/spotify |
| |
↖ |
17:27 |
billymg |
abandoned the former long ago in favor of my own collection but still use spotify now and then |
17:27 |
signpost |
get ready for styx sitting right next to sviatoslav richter and robyn |
17:27 |
billymg |
though also rebuilding audio collection at the moment |
17:28 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088530 << obligatory [https://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already-been-designed/][Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed |
17:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 13:26:09 billymg: yeah, i got lazy during my saltmining years and switched to netflix/spotify |
17:29 |
billymg |
mangol: love how it starts with "Well I’m in the working world again." |
17:29 |
billymg |
that's what does it |
17:30 |
billymg |
the problem of too much money on a micro scale |
17:39 |
mangol |
billymg: seems like a bit of a different thing. employees can invest their pay |
17:40 |
mangol |
article says employees need to be artificially kept in a permanent state of too little free time, so they are exhausted and have to spend their way out of every problem |
17:41 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: primary purpose of most 'desk flyer' employment is specifically to destroy free time |
17:41 |
mangol |
easily agreed |
17:41 |
billymg |
mangol: yeah, i see that now after actually reading the article. jumped the gun and first thought of the money printing problem |
17:41 |
mangol |
not so much "money burning a hole in your pocket" as "too exhausted to do anything except spend money" |
17:41 |
billymg |
right, yup, makes sense |
17:42 |
billymg |
and i can relate completely, and even though i was conscious of it at the time, told myself "it's ok, because you're making money now" |
17:42 |
mangol |
thanks for linking the trilema article though, hadn't thought of that angle |
17:44 |
asciilifeform |
'it’s quite difficult for us to avoid increasing our standard of living (or at least our rate of spending) every time we get a raise' << good % of this is illusion, and what people actually do is ~buying same~ (or moar threadbare) ~after n yrs of inflationism~ |
| |
↖ |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
in the most extreme case of this -- say you wanted to live in current reich today w/ same standard of living as e.g. engineer in 1900. would need to spend coupla $mil / y. |
| |
↖ |
17:47 |
signpost |
you should see the house my coal-miner great grandfather lived in. |
17:47 |
signpost |
beautiful. |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
aaha |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
is on the continuum |
17:47 |
billymg |
"You work 40-plus hours or you work zero." << i genuinely wonder if the post-covid wfh scheme is a new tacit agreement reached between labor and capital for the information age |
17:48 |
billymg |
i.e. if you're a tech worker you can now work 10 hours a week as a "full time" salaried employee |
17:49 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: observe that mandatory telephonic/camwhoric meetings effectively prevent slave from behaving like someone who genuinely only '10h wk' |
17:49 |
asciilifeform |
even if sums to <10h |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
cuz 'wat if boss calls' etc |
17:50 |
signpost |
yeah, both never ends and nothing gets done. |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
the 'keep plebe in his place' gets done. |
17:50 |
signpost |
"omaigad, our tower of chairs fell down at 2am" and pager goes off. |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
which is, largely, the objective |
17:50 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: right, but even when i was in an office it was perfectly acceptable to "got some errands today, will be in and out!" on the wfh days (we already had one wfh day per week at that time) |
17:51 |
mats |
plenty of ordinary people have issues with vaccine policies, you have only to walk around and talk to them about it |
17:51 |
signpost |
people were regularly shocked at what my team could get done until they got used to the $megacorp life, rotted. |
17:53 |
mats |
where people get off the train is when you the 'we should not use any vaccines, even during active pandemic, until theyve been tested for a year or more' when you have 0 medical training |
17:53 |
* |
signpost brb |
17:53 |
mats |
when you run the* 'we should not use any vaccines ...' |
17:54 |
mats |
it'd be more honest to do the verisimilitude thing, where you openly first admit you want society to burn (and i am on that train) |
| |
↖ |
17:55 |
* |
shinohai also here for the burning, loves watching empires fall ..... |
17:55 |
billymg |
"active pandemic!" says who? |
17:56 |
asciilifeform |
mats: fwiw asciilifeform had the vaccine . at same time strongly suspects that it was a cynical fraud. |
17:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 16:15:30 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform so far: covid #1 (shortly after outbreak) , mildly annoying; covid #2 ('21) mildly annoying; vax (two-part) ; covid #3 ( dec. '21 ) , nasty , 3wks of ugh |
17:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 12:36:05 asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform wouldn't be astonished if turned out (somehow. unlikely we'll find out) that most of the doses consisted of simply saline. |
17:56 |
billymg |
you do realize that if you allow the loophole: "in an emergency" then there will simply always be an emergency |
17:56 |
mangol |
^ exactly |
17:56 |
mats |
got it, no emergency measures, evar |
| |
↖ |
17:57 |
mangol |
when i was a kid (and iÃ'mfairly young) we wouldn't have considered a glorified flu a global emergency |
17:58 |
billymg |
mats: nah, i think it just comes down to the fact that our current rulers can't be trusted |
17:58 |
asciilifeform |
mats: would deny that reich officials did moar or less errything possible to destroy trust in their 'emergency handings' ? |
17:58 |
asciilifeform |
*handlings |
17:58 |
mats |
sure, distrust in usg has been curated for decades |
17:59 |
asciilifeform |
picture if yer local fire dept. were over9000x more likely to walk off with yer valuables than to put out fire. would still be eager to call ? |
17:59 |
mats |
its not a coincidence that the poorest and dumbest people, to incl poor whites blacks and hispanics, had the lowest uptake of the vaccine |
| |
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17:59 |
mangol |
for starters, where's the covid-induced bump in all cause death rates 2020 and 2021 compared to prior years? |
17:59 |
mats |
this doesn't rise to the level of unfounded claims about vaccine safety |
17:59 |
mangol |
all cause, because "death by/with covid" is almost certainly massively weaseled |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
mangol: good % of'em are simply deaths by withheld 'elective' medical care |
18:00 |
mats |
i expect a higher level of discourse from you people, where we can discuss controversial subjects without deception |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 'contradicts nyt' == 'deception' ? |
18:01 |
asciilifeform |
mats: will deny that hospitals closed for 'elective' under fraudulent pretenses ? or wat |
18:01 |
asciilifeform |
or, rly, insist that erry 'covid corpse' actually died the claimed death ? |
18:02 |
mats |
you're still skating around the claim, which, granted, you didn't make |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
which claim, mats ? |
18:02 |
mats |
maybe you got an allergy |
18:03 |
asciilifeform |
that the vax is a dud ? cn, south kr where mass outbreak (per reich media!) atm not evidence enuff ? |
18:03 |
mats |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088044 |
18:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 15:43:37 mangol: exactly. but taking the risk made no sense |
18:04 |
mats |
what's interesting about the outbreak in hk is the unusual age distribution in vaccinated people, due to public health decisions |
18:04 |
asciilifeform |
mats: elaborate? |
18:04 |
mangol |
it was apparent early on that covid is quite harmless unless you are old or have a major chronic illness |
18:04 |
mats |
lots of middle aged people got it, not nearly as many in over 65s |
18:05 |
mangol |
"old or have a major chronic illness" is also the expected risk group for vaccine side effects |
18:06 |
mangol |
why would you take some reich-approved experimental thing that "zomg everyone needs!" if there's no obvious risk from the disease, or (if you're in risk group) risk from disease is likely to be same as risk from vax? |
18:06 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088577 No emergency measures, unless I agree with them. |
18:06 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 13:55:46 mats: got it, no emergency measures, evar |
18:07 |
mats |
less than 25% of people over 80 in hk got two doses of the vax prior to omicron, and this has contributed to the waves of casualties |
18:08 |
verisimilitude |
Good, let them die. |
18:08 |
verisimilitude |
I'd like to watch someone die because I didn't get vaccinated. |
18:08 |
mats |
we know |
18:10 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088569 I won't have mine empathy hijacked. |
18:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 13:53:26 mats: it'd be more honest to do the verisimilitude thing, where you openly first admit you want society to burn (and i am on that train) |
18:10 |
verisimilitude |
``Get the vaccine, bigot.'' |
18:10 |
verisimilitude |
``Install the TLS certificate, luddite.'' |
18:11 |
verisimilitude |
``Do this, do that, for strangers.'' |
18:11 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: see also however. (vaccines per se -- quite vintage tech.) |
18:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 12:40:30 asciilifeform: finds plausible the old theory that the orig. 'antivax' meme was a product of '80s turnerite white-population-control schemes |
18:11 |
mangol |
found someone who refused latest reich software update --> "literally hitler!1 killing grannies!" |
18:13 |
mangol |
verisimilitude: soon "put the microchip under your skin". at least 1 swedish company already openly boasting about it |
18:13 |
mangol |
of course, under the pretext that it's safe and effective for public health |
18:14 |
verisimilitude |
I was never willing to urinate in a cup on demand, for an employer; so, naturally, injecting something inside of me was completely unacceptable. |
18:14 |
billymg |
mats: i still don't understand why you care so much about people dying when: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1087671 |
18:14 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 07:20:57 mats: as the knowledge gap grows, probably it is best that the socioeconomic inequality gap also grows |
18:15 |
billymg |
i just don't understand the inconsistency. "they ain't smart enough, let 'em starve" "they aren't healthy enough, we must protect them!!" |
18:16 |
billymg |
is it because in the second case mats believes he needs protecting? if so that's sort of hypocritical, no? |
18:18 |
mats |
we can discuss antisocial behavior without plugging in bullshit about risk |
18:18 |
mats |
you might need to wrap up the two to swallow the thing, i don't |
18:19 |
billymg |
swallow what thing? |
18:19 |
billymg |
i just know i'm healthy enough that i'll take my chances with the virus |
18:19 |
billymg |
and if i'm not, then i don't deserve to pass on my genes |
18:19 |
billymg |
but so far still waiting to die... |
18:20 |
mats |
"the vaccine is too risky and untested" |
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18:20 |
billymg |
mats: in this case, to me, personally, any risk > 0 is too much |
18:21 |
billymg |
for you, maybe not, and i can respect that. it's your decision |
18:21 |
billymg |
so back to policy, let people make their own choices, if they die they die |
18:22 |
billymg |
who needs a bunch of poor rednecks anyway, right? |
18:22 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 17:59:20 mats: its not a coincidence that the poorest and dumbest people, to incl poor whites blacks and hispanics, had the lowest uptake of the vaccine |
18:22 |
mats |
the discussion has been about the population, and some of what society does is telling people what to do |
| |
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18:22 |
billymg |
yes, which is fine if those doing the telling have the interest of the people in mind |
18:24 |
billymg |
this is old as time too, you have to believe in your king to be willing to obey orders / fight and die for him. if you don't, you explore other options |
18:25 |
mats |
options like telling people on the internet that the vaccine is untested and risky |
18:25 |
billymg |
"information warfare is only ok when we do it" |
18:27 |
mats |
information warfare is more effective when you don't lie |
| |
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18:28 |
billymg |
right, so i don't. i say the vaccine has non-zero risk (hard to prove otherwise) and i say for me it's not worth it |
18:28 |
mats |
this expands the potential target audience to everyone, not just the people that have problems with authority |
| |
↖ |
18:29 |
mats |
anyway, back to breaking big rocks |
18:30 |
billymg |
ok... so how is that my problem? if they're dumb enough to believe what i write on the internet then they deserve to be filtered, as per your view, no? |
18:30 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-24 07:20:57 mats: as the knowledge gap grows, probably it is best that the socioeconomic inequality gap also grows |
18:31 |
billymg |
mats: enjoy |
18:31 |
* |
billymg must also bbl |
18:33 |
billymg |
before i go though, i don't want what i wrote to be misinterpreted as advocating for spreading misinformation. i genuinely believe not taking the vax if you're young and healthy is the right choice, so when i make this argument, i am making it in good faith, with the interests of those i'm talking to in mind |
| |
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18:33 |
signpost |
mats: I wouldn't even dismiss the idea that society's being culled in order from least obedient to most, which sounds like what you're intimating. |
| |
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18:34 |
billymg |
^ popular theory on 4chan too |
18:34 |
signpost |
this is not even to say that it was engineered to do so. |
18:34 |
signpost |
"ah good, finally something came along to thin the beoble of walmart" |
18:35 |
signpost |
given impending resource constraints, probably will be more of this. |
18:36 |
* |
signpost thinks agency is too often ascribed to what is more often simply stepping out of the way and letting people get hit. see also: 9/11 |
18:37 |
signpost |
this condescending "management" is exactly the ideology of both right and left american politics, in slightly varying flavors. |
18:38 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088638 << in this, I see an uninspected, or at least unexpressed omission that the authoritarian machine is for hire, and of short attention span. |
18:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 14:21:18 mats: the discussion has been about the population, and some of what society does is telling people what to do |
18:40 |
signpost |
sure, two shots of e.g. moderna's vax probably decreases risk for most people. then somebody looks at an impending earnings cliff and conveniently, 3, 4, n shots. |
18:40 |
signpost |
people you consider rubes can pick up the scam in ^ even if they're otherwise statistically, scientificially, illiterate. |
18:41 |
signpost |
hell, what animal can't tell when another has taken the feint. my cats do it. |
18:47 |
signpost |
one can even imagine the bureaucrat at the NIH saying to himself that if covid isn't blown out of proportion, and used to establish precedent for rapidly vaccinating the whole country, next plauge (say like the iirc hemmorhagic MERS, but with omicron's transmissibility) might be game over. |
18:48 |
signpost |
gods don't care if we get a winning move, is my view, at least. |
18:50 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: possibly part of the covidiocy scheme's objective was to undermine credibility of (past & future) vax which actually work |
18:51 |
* |
signpost figures the thing's a writhing ball of worms, each with own interest. |
18:51 |
verisimilitude |
That's the other side of the 4chan and related thinking. |
18:51 |
verisimilitude |
``What if next time, the vaccine actually will be needed?'' |
18:52 |
signpost |
and yes, "vax" that kinda works, but with subscription rather than one-time purchase, $$$$ |
18:52 |
verisimilitude |
Nobody knows, so I choose apathy. |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
moar fundamentally, with the reich being the sole source of any kinda mass stats, the question aint a 'public health question' but a 'credibility of reich' question |
18:53 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088449 << yup yup |
18:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 12:47:02 signpost: "yes sweetheart, your survival depends entirely upon people that *despise* you." |
18:54 |
signpost |
same problem as CPUs, needed and only made by the enemy. |
18:54 |
signpost |
attenuated virus vaccine may even be more dangerous, end up giving you the disease in question. |
18:54 |
* |
signpost still wanted this for the robust immunity, aware of risk. |
18:55 |
asciilifeform |
virus per se seems to be good for 6mo+ immun |
18:56 |
asciilifeform |
the interesting, psychologically, aspect of the mats thread is the difficulty, for some folx, of making the jump to 'reich stats likely bogus, all i can rely on is personal experience of self and those around me' |
| |
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18:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 12:38:16 asciilifeform: mangol: reich stratagem is to set up a perceived dichotomy where yer either 'with the program' or out in 'the lonesome deep space', outside the city walls, in company of 'martians did 9-11', etc. illiterates/schizos |
18:57 |
asciilifeform |
goes screamingly against the 'scientism' baked into firmware by reich 'education' |
18:57 |
signpost |
perhaps you grew up with people who were more reliable in their common sense. |
18:58 |
asciilifeform |
were, at any rate |
18:59 |
verisimilitude |
I still like the USG statistics about groups towards whom I hold disdain. |
18:59 |
* |
asciilifeform watched parents contract rather obvious covid during init outbreak, then 'hey wapo proclaimed that old folx couldn't possib survive unscathed, it couldn've been covid, we'll button up in house for year' etc |
18:59 |
mangol |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088651 << this sounds like the kind of disclaimer that people put at the end of a publication to avoid persecution for thoughtcrimes |
18:59 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 18:33:05 billymg: before i go though, i don't want what i wrote to be misinterpreted as advocating for spreading misinformation. i genuinely believe not taking the vax if you're young and healthy is the right choice, so when i make this argument, i am making it in good faith, with the interests of those i'm talking to in mind |
19:00 |
mangol |
not implying you do it intentionally, but good to learn out of the habit |
19:00 |
signpost |
yep. sometimes people are just dealing with the flatness of the medium (text) |
19:01 |
mangol |
experience so far shows that the left has 0 interest in protecting people who dutifully complied with prior years' dogma |
19:01 |
mangol |
be a visible goodthinking leftist for 15 years -> make some foible on the 16th year -> banhammered, unemployed etc. |
19:02 |
signpost |
inshallah bitcoin knocks a few of us loose to focus more on the wot, still waiting for that next zero. |
| |
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19:02 |
mangol |
"misinformation" == information that didn't come from harvard |
19:02 |
signpost |
as all of these problems come from sickness of relationship. |
19:03 |
signpost |
consider if the wot contained a respected epidemiologist, both here and among others in that field. |
19:03 |
signpost |
how the thread would go then. |
19:03 |
verisimilitude |
Consider if he also had the memetic virus. |
19:04 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: sorta contradiction in terms, couldn't be still 'respected' if departed from party line |
19:04 |
signpost |
if wot can't infect the outside, no point in having it. |
19:04 |
* |
signpost ain't ideologically dead on that front yet |
19:04 |
verisimilitude |
Most of us are programmers, but I certainly don't hold your opinions as necessarily valid. |
19:04 |
signpost |
yet here we sit talking. |
19:04 |
signpost |
"willing to hear" is not belief. |
19:05 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: what'd 'infect outside' look like ? |
19:07 |
signpost |
more meatsacks in the wot, such that link analysis can be done from/to any of 'em. |
19:08 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088643 << reich lies habitually |
19:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 14:27:00 mats: information warfare is more effective when you don't lie |
19:09 |
* |
asciilifeform wonders how many inhabitants of planet3 even mentally competent to participate in wotronics, given existing tech |
19:09 |
verisimilitude |
Take the amount of people using Facebook, and subtract that from the population, to start. |
19:09 |
signpost |
mangol: mats appears to think that we tacitly believe the vax probably works, but think it's fine if the weak get ravaged by the illness. |
19:09 |
signpost |
leave it to him to correct me. |
19:09 |
signpost |
i.e. "we are in on the lie" |
19:10 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088645 << "problems with authority" is one of numerous instances where mental health diagnoses are selectively applied to discredit opponents |
19:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 14:27:56 mats: this expands the potential target audience to everyone, not just the people that have problems with authority |
19:10 |
verisimilitude |
Let mats be made aware I don't think it works. |
19:10 |
asciilifeform |
near as can tell, errybody who can be 'ravaged', will be ravaged. 'don't run from the sniper, you'll just die tired'(tm) |
19:10 |
verisimilitude |
The flavour of this discussion is clear when we make it about programming. |
19:10 |
signpost |
o/^ "all.. our times.. have come" o/^ |
19:11 |
verisimilitude |
``MicroSoft says we need the fourth booster pack. They know programmers.'' |
| |
↖ |
19:11 |
mangol |
signpost: "in on the lie" approx. equal to "feel good about myself at chic brunch"? |
19:11 |
mangol |
part of the aspirational class fake inner circle that asciilifeform talked about |
19:12 |
mangol |
or if not aspirational class, then the wider laptop class |
19:12 |
verisimilitude |
I'd like for programming to be a regulated endeavour, but that requires the regulators to know what programming is. |
19:13 |
signpost |
mangol: everything is a lie in america. the only wisdom is being aware of the angle. |
19:13 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: if were up to reich, taking a shit would be a 'regulated endeavour'. fortunately 'hands too short' |
19:13 |
signpost |
(is the perspective) |
19:13 |
signpost |
comes of financialism and consumerism. |
19:15 |
asciilifeform |
per asciilifeform , stockholm syndrome is the fundamental underpinning of 'believe the science!'(tm)(r) 'hamstering' |
19:15 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-02-17 asciilifeform: afaik all literate folk know about, e.g., the auschwitz inmates who collected scraps of german uniforms, etc. |
19:15 |
verisimilitude |
It's quite funny how people can look upon this world and think a loving god created it. |
19:15 |
signpost |
that it is. |
19:16 |
* |
signpost credits the meatsacks 100%. |
19:16 |
signpost |
god, if exists, is the self-balancing mechanism in nature which will erase us if we keep screeching about our sovereignty over reality. |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
current reich is based on model of 'cheaper to guard the concentration camp if the inmates can be persuaded that they aint in one' ; |
| |
↖ ↖ |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
see also e.g. |
| |
↖ |
19:19 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2019-03-14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902463 << limonov had entire b00k on subj, with slightly different twist ( tldr : the 'free world' built 'disciplinary sanitarium' (his term) where ideas-dun-matter-even-if-you-somehow-come-across-one cuz they all get http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ ) |
19:19 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: 'Frightened of its own cannibalism during the First, and, moreover, the Second world wars. 'civilized' mankind dashed from the 'hard' to the 'soft' mode of violence. (The deciding factors: 1. the restraining influence of atomic weapons and 2. the advent of new technologies of production, which made possible an overfeeding of the masses.) If the essence of 'hard' violence consists in the physical suppression of |
19:19 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: man, 'soft' is based on the encouragement of his weaknesses. The ideal of 'hard' violence - to convert the world into a maximum security prison, of 'soft' - to convert man himself into a domestic animal.' |
19:19 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: (limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium') |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: 'gods of the copybook headings'(tm)(kipling) |
19:23 |
signpost |
beautiful. |
19:24 |
signpost |
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings; |
19:24 |
signpost |
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things. |
19:25 |
verisimilitude |
A panopticon is cheaper than a typical prison. |
19:26 |
mangol |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088719 << yes -- if microsoft was also responsible for tax policy, border control, monetary policy, education system, ... |
19:26 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 19:11:15 verisimilitude: ``MicroSoft says we need the fourth booster pack. They know programmers.'' |
19:27 |
mangol |
authority does every imaginable and unimaginable thing to discredit itself -> wonder why difficult people have problems with authority |
19:28 |
verisimilitude |
Those machines are running Windows, but that wasn't my point. |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
20:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088692 << can't speak for other folx, but in asciilifeform's corner of the barbed wire, 'sandwich' seems set to win the race for 'new zero', well ahead of btc-usd exchrt |
| |
↖ ↖ |
20:06 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 15:01:26 signpost: inshallah bitcoin knocks a few of us loose to focus more on the wot, still waiting for that next zero. |
20:06 |
dulapbot |
(alethepedia) 2020-10-11 asciilifeform: thimbronion: the altcoinists -- sure . but i was speaking of the fact that the exch rate prolly aint growing another 0 -- or rather, not w/out the dollar price of archaetypical sandwich also growing a zero. |
20:07 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. the exact reverse of 'btc to moon' scenario |
20:07 |
mats |
i guess if you believe the science is a lie, or the statistics are a lie, and the only thing that matters is your bubble of personal experience and 5 people, then at least we finally have arrived at an understanding |
20:08 |
mats |
very clever |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
mats: outta curiosity, is there a hypothetical 'red line' where, if crossed, you'd set 'bozo bit' on reich.academia ? |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
( or willing to swallow anyffin at all, no matter how laffably contradictory to lived experience or ordinary logic ? ) |
20:08 |
mats |
if there was an active dispute among scientists about experimental results, yes |
20:09 |
asciilifeform |
very easy to make 'no dispute' if the disputants 'no longer scientists' by reich decree, neh |
20:09 |
asciilifeform |
sorta how 'there's no dispute' that 'putin is antichrist' if yer tuned into reich's fishwraps |
20:09 |
mats |
and you think that's happening? |
20:10 |
asciilifeform |
happening for ~20y in 'climatology', for instance |
20:10 |
mats |
scientists are being fired and defrocked for disputing the efficacy of various vaccines? |
| |
↖ |
20:10 |
asciilifeform |
why limit to covid. wainot start with e.g. duesberg. |
20:11 |
mats |
right, so there's a concerted effort to stop science fags from sciencing |
20:11 |
mats |
very interesting |
20:11 |
asciilifeform |
mats: skip the strawmen plox |
20:12 |
mats |
from climate research to vaccine research |
20:13 |
asciilifeform |
from (at least) the 'ozone hole' bullshit (proj. of dupont inc) |
20:13 |
asciilifeform |
shining success, inspired subsequent lulz |
20:14 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088749 << yep, not holding my breath til '24, oughta make things lively again, if not sooner. |
20:14 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 16:05:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088692 << can't speak for other folx, but in asciilifeform's corner of the barbed wire, 'sandwich' seems set to win the race for 'new zero', well ahead of btc-usd exchrt |
20:15 |
mats |
i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling |
| |
↖ ↖ |
20:15 |
signpost |
bud, you're approximately yelling at the tv by now. |
20:16 |
asciilifeform |
mats: btw didja ever do time in reich.academia ? ( e.g. asciilifeform has, described subj in logs plentifully ) |
20:16 |
PeterL |
mats: expand on how to make >500mn/yr? I would gladly switch to however you get that to work? |
20:17 |
mats |
do a phd, then an md, and treat cancer patients |
20:17 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: lol it's 'could be making', exists, like the voltage on dead watch battery, until you connect a load.. |
20:17 |
mats |
the rich patients |
20:17 |
PeterL |
still seems off by ~3 orders of magnitude |
20:17 |
mats |
sorry, 500k |
20:17 |
* |
asciilifeform read 'k' lol |
20:18 |
signpost |
half mil is about right for any megacorp job after a promotion or two. |
20:18 |
asciilifeform |
a successful surgeon indeed can make 500k easily enuff |
20:18 |
mats |
surely there are problems with academia but there is no active suppression of researchers |
20:18 |
asciilifeform |
thing is that there aint a need for 1e8 surgeons anywhere |
20:18 |
mats |
not in this manner |
20:19 |
asciilifeform |
(not does typical paper monkey have 'hands growing outta right place' to be a surgeon) |
20:19 |
mats |
i love conspiracies as much as the next goyim |
20:20 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 'conspiracy' is a reich shibboleth |
20:20 |
verisimilitude |
The word has a legitimate definition, asciilifeform. |
20:20 |
verisimilitude |
It's merely that it has been poisoned in common usage. |
20:21 |
verisimilitude |
I won't allow the word ``conspiracy'' to be ruined any more than I'd allow it for ``woman''. |
20:21 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: largely used in cheapo signaling, 'shuddup terrorist, or live in the company of 'martians did 911'' |
20:21 |
mats |
i remember when we did the 9/11 thread in #b-a |
20:21 |
signpost |
mats: put some light between this "all the researchers aren't being suppressed" and some of the scandals regarding pharmeceutical companies in the last few decades for me |
20:22 |
mats |
i mentioned that my grandparents watched the second plane hit the tower, when some guy was talking about controlled demo |
20:22 |
asciilifeform |
( also used in reich.jurusprudence, originally to denote 'criminal conspiracy' i.e. premeditated crime with >1 participant; then lulzily redefined to include even 1! can 'conspire w/ self' ) |
20:22 |
mats |
hilarious |
20:22 |
asciilifeform |
*jurisprudence |
20:22 |
mats |
can you elaborate, signpost |
20:23 |
signpost |
what is the process by which pharmeceutical companies provide data to journals? |
20:23 |
signpost |
has there ever been a case where omissions, technically-honest aggregations, etc., have been used to get things approved which later cause e.g. stroke, heart valve failure, w/e |
20:24 |
signpost |
if so, how does this happen? |
20:24 |
mats |
i don't do pharma research, why are you asking me |
20:24 |
signpost |
I'm not doing the left/right thing; it's a waste of my pulse. |
20:24 |
signpost |
you're the derp sitting here declaring yourself a defender of The Science, so do it. |
20:24 |
mats |
you mentioned scandals, give me some reporting |
20:24 |
signpost |
are you somehow unaware of the cases I was referencing with my examples? |
20:24 |
signpost |
go read about pfizer for an hour and come back. |
20:25 |
mats |
very helpful and edgy |
20:25 |
signpost |
you think in memes, dude. |
20:25 |
signpost |
"edgy", really? |
20:25 |
mats |
i tried very hard to be patient |
20:25 |
asciilifeform |
reporting << e.g. these ? or not enuff ? |
20:25 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 12:28:41 signpost: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history << >> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/ |
20:26 |
signpost |
mats: apparently not patient enough to read ^ |
20:26 |
PeterL |
I am involved in the margins of pharma research, maybe I can shed some light on this topic, if you have specific questions? |
20:26 |
asciilifeform |
' September 2, 2009 ... American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products, the Justice Department announced today.' |
20:26 |
asciilifeform |
^ and that's just when egregious enuff that even reich organs barfed! |
20:27 |
* |
mats reads |
20:28 |
asciilifeform |
not even mentioning the 'unindicted' fraugs, e.g. the mega-push of statins (do you know any statin patients whose brain not detectably dissolving?) |
20:28 |
asciilifeform |
*frauds |
20:29 |
asciilifeform |
... or the mass push of ssri, 'mood stabilizers', etc. producing over9000 zombies |
20:29 |
signpost |
https://www.npr.org/2007/11/10/5470430/timeline-the-rise-and-fall-of-vioxx << another famous case. |
20:29 |
asciilifeform |
could fill MBs of log with these if wanted. |
20:29 |
asciilifeform |
no shortage. |
20:30 |
asciilifeform |
and again those are just where actual corpses. plenty w/out, with merely crippling effects, but a++ reich.ok |
20:30 |
asciilifeform |
'because reasons' |
20:30 |
signpost |
"Weinblatt fills out a financial disclosure form that says he and his wife own $72,975 of Merck stock." << hue |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: can moar or less freely add a 0 or 2 to these (what kinda lizard actually discloses 100% holdings) |
20:31 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: sure, I wrote about my own case where I was fed quetiapine for insomnia. |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
aha asciilifeform recalls |
20:31 |
signpost |
astra zeneca paid huge fines over that. |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
almost errybody in usa has l1 (or direct) story like that |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
yet 'not data, anecdote!'(tm)(r) |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
cuz, remember, if not came outta nyt, it aint Science(tm) |
20:32 |
signpost |
it is until it isn't, and the loyal will just as quickly switch sides and bleat that it has always been. |
20:32 |
asciilifeform |
naturally |
20:32 |
asciilifeform |
normally story flips when a patent expires |
20:33 |
signpost |
and before the idiot attack comes from mats, this does not mean everything that comes out of these companies is therefore poison, or that the researchers in their labs are all secret liars. |
| |
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20:33 |
asciilifeform |
then, $olddrug 'dangerous, here's where you can class action sue', $new -- a++ |
20:33 |
signpost |
it is better for these companies if there is the cover of legitimate, honest research. |
20:33 |
asciilifeform |
most of what comes out is endless reshuffle, for patent purpose, of 50+y.o. items. |
20:34 |
asciilifeform |
occasionally the 'patentability mod' has spectacular bomb effect. |
20:34 |
* |
signpost had his health back in about 5 years after the quetiapine. |
20:34 |
signpost |
and had to work for it. |
20:36 |
PeterL |
what did it do to you? |
20:38 |
verisimilitude |
There was a time in my life during which I considered taking depression pills. Fortunately, I was too lazy. |
20:39 |
signpost |
PeterL: gut issues, blood pressure, misc nervous system strange. |
20:42 |
signpost |
had e.g. debilitating migraines to the point of puke/pass-out for years after, now gone. |
20:43 |
* |
asciilifeform in '09 was fed 'cipro' as 'prophylactic against possible pneumonia with swine flu', had knock-down random tendon pains for ~7y after |
20:43 |
asciilifeform |
famous scamdrug, massively stockpiled by usg during bush ii's 'anthrax theatre', resulted in huge surplus that had to be pawned off somehow |
20:44 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform 'got off lightly' arguably -- for some, apparently, permanent |
20:44 |
verisimilitude |
I do occasionally question how my typing pain only happened after 2020, by my memory. |
20:45 |
signpost |
inflammatory disease is on the rise. |
20:45 |
verisimilitude |
I already avoid sugar and the like. |
20:46 |
verisimilitude |
I'm improving, I think. |
20:46 |
verisimilitude |
I'm avoiding certain oils, now. |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
usa fulla folx taking 5-6 ???s , of'em most 'against side effects of other' |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
typically once victim gets on that treadmill, stays until gives up ghost |
20:47 |
asciilifeform |
(for which anyone but the prescriber or pharma scammer is blamed) |
20:49 |
verisimilitude |
I can, in principle, go into the woods and survive. I'd likely, but not certainly, die. I never want to lose that option. |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088840 << worth noting also how reich.academia typically behaves even when ~0 serious dough at stake. |
20:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 16:32:24 signpost: and before the idiot attack comes from mats, this does not mean everything that comes out of these companies is therefore poison, or that the researchers in their labs are all secret liars. |
20:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-14 13:43:52 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: academitards ~never share working src. because typically there aint one (if there's anyffin resembling a proggy -- it's a pile of rigged demo bullshit which shits out the charts that go into the paper liquishit, rarely anyffin moar) |
20:49 |
verisimilitude |
Addiction eliminates it. |
20:50 |
* |
signpost sounds like broken record, but because it mostly doesn't stick. |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
( not even speaking of when there's dough. e.g. recall the planetary-scale stinkfest when 'climatologist' data-fudging src leaked ) |
20:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-02 12:16:03 asciilifeform: ( someone leaked mailing list where the 'climate experts' were openly discussing how best to cook the #s, silence 'terrorist' critics, etc ) |
20:50 |
signpost |
people will be screeching that there must be a way out for them the whole way down. |
20:50 |
signpost |
THEY ARE OWED it. |
20:50 |
signpost |
this is surely what every imperial subject said in every fallen empire. |
20:51 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: not even 'there's way' but 'there's nothing to need way out of, all going by plan' |
20:51 |
signpost |
that if you close your eyes, you can know in your heart that it still lives. |
20:51 |
signpost |
yep |
20:52 |
signpost |
the old cunts in DC will be aghast, say unprecedented, do nothing, at every click of the ratchet. |
20:52 |
signpost |
entirely despite the well meaning hard work of whichever lab rat. |
20:54 |
signpost |
anyway why be sad. it means things don't remain broken forever. nature works, just not for you |
20:54 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-10-03 phf: i'm not sure, but not in the way that phrase is cliche in english. god loves you, christ acts from inner great love. i'm not sure christ loves ~you~ as such |
21:04 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: asciilifeform finds fascinating the psychological tension where folx who 'identify as intellectual' are terrified of 'being kicked outta intellectuals' (1st and foremost by 'policeman in own head') and consequently buy into laffable Official nonsense by the megatonne. ( dunno if mats diagnosably fits in this group, but shows worrisome symptoms imho, what w/ linx to papers w/ 'freedom index'(tm) with straight |
| |
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21:04 |
asciilifeform |
face, etc) |
21:05 |
asciilifeform |
this was observable in late sovok, where otherwise entirely rational folx would stick a marx&engels ref into e.g. physics work, not from Official mandate, but simply to moar confortably live 'in own head' |
21:06 |
asciilifeform |
*comfortably |
21:06 |
signpost |
hard to say with the way the guy's communicating, is all. |
21:06 |
* |
signpost offered pretty evenhanded syntheses in thread, imho. |
21:06 |
* |
asciilifeform defo hopes mats doesn't walk off any time soon, is rather curious re thought process, i.e. is it the above |
21:07 |
asciilifeform |
( ...or is moar like dpb's 'don't go to hell!' , i.e. actually hopes to convert sumbody? which. ) |
21:07 |
asciilifeform |
( or both..? ) |
21:08 |
* |
asciilifeform reminded inescapably of various convs w/ relatives, with whom can go surprisingly far on logical path, only to then hear cnn/nyt parroted again next day/wk |
21:10 |
signpost |
probably deep in the meat, to never believe one's in a double-bind. |
21:11 |
* |
signpost does not exclude himself from these statements, thinks they are probably heard as aimed at "you". |
21:11 |
asciilifeform |
meat wants 'reassure', is wai turns on the cnntube/nyt/etc. |
21:12 |
signpost |
not religious, but retained the notion that man has to know how broken he is to be more. |
21:12 |
asciilifeform |
tube will helpfully 'inform' that e.g. extra 0 on prices is 'from orc aggression', 'vax for covid', etc |
21:16 |
asciilifeform |
the fascinating thing is that even a stint of work in the reich kitchens where these 'dishes' are cooked, is rarely curative. |
21:16 |
asciilifeform |
'memory hole effect'(tm) |
21:16 |
signpost |
maybe the bones feel war coming; if so, not even wrong. |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
war already in. |
21:17 |
signpost |
to them. not tv. |
21:17 |
signpost |
but yes |
21:18 |
asciilifeform |
over9000x funnier, if go & read e.g. the ukr groundlings, even tank column rolling straight through yer lobby aint necessarily curative. |
21:20 |
asciilifeform |
( oblig. ukr joak : (2, over bottle of vodka) 'hey let's go beat up some jiggerz' 'sure, but what if -- they, us?' 'they, beat up us? for what??' ) |
21:21 |
asciilifeform |
'а нас за що' |
21:23 |
signpost |
lol |
21:24 |
signpost |
sorta saying that everyone's preparing their blame for the defeat. |
21:24 |
signpost |
seems about right. gotta be ahead of the trade! |
21:24 |
* |
signpost bbl, gonna grunt out some work. |
| |
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~ |
22:54 |
mats |
https://slashdot.org/story/22/03/25/1921241/exxon-weighs-taking-gas-to-bitcoin-pilot-to-four-countries |
22:56 |
asciilifeform |
mats: recall |
22:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-09 15:13:30 mats: interesting arb of 'stranded energy' in nat gas flares or however that works |
22:58 |
* |
asciilifeform lulz at the morons who 'ohnoez evil polluters' when already for almost 2centuries flares burn |
23:03 |
crtdaydreams |
re: pest filesharing, how would filesharing permissions be executed? i.e. an file transfer eqiv of /query for each file to be transferred where peer can reject or accept (and also cancel transfer and discard packets) or will you be able to set a peer to "allow files / always accept" |
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23:05 |
crtdaydreams |
On the pest side of things, traffic analysis to see which peers are sending large volumes of data, would it be to the whole network as to obfuscate in the current way? |
23:05 |
crtdaydreams |
s/the/sent to the/ |
| |
~ 43 minutes ~ |
23:49 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088652 << Impartial to current debate I'd like to point out that using the very same logic of most ''anti-vax'' types (e.g. ``state wants to kill me with vaxx depopulation!!1!''), one could argue that conversely the vaxx is designed to weasel out the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03- |
23:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 14:32:21 signpost: mats: I wouldn't even dismiss the idea that society's being culled in order from least obedient to most, which sounds like what you're intimating. |
23:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 14:19:28 mats: "the vaccine is too risky and untested" |
23:49 |
crtdaydreams |
25#1088652][disobedient] and ``covid'' is to kill those disobedient. Catch22. But there is unconscious choice to chose the former interpretation; either a) stupidity or b) they have more faith in reich than say ``pro-vaxx'' |
23:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088912 << can't picture any need for anyffin moar granular than 'l1 peers can ask for index & files' |
23:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-25 19:03:05 crtdaydreams: re: pest filesharing, how would filesharing permissions be executed? i.e. an file transfer eqiv of /query for each file to be transferred where peer can reject or accept (and also cancel transfer and discard packets) or will you be able to set a peer to "allow files / always accept" |
23:52 |
asciilifeform |
( if you aint a peer, i.e. can't talk to $station -- talk to yer own peers, see if they have whatcha want ) |
23:52 |
crtdaydreams |
ah ok. |
23:53 |
crtdaydreams |
wouldn't that be subject to some form of traffic analysis though? |
23:54 |
crtdaydreams |
and would $peer fetch packet for you a bit like how the NAT Breakout works? |
23:54 |
crtdaydreams |
or would unpeered station send you file? |
23:54 |
asciilifeform |
unpeered station can't send you anyffin, crtdaydreams |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
plox to read spec. |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
re traffic, enemy can see that yer sending/receiving, but not what, or whether useful payloads or rubbish |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
if is a serious concern, saturate yer link w/ rubbish. |
23:59 |
crtdaydreams |
enemy has no biz knowing if sending file or not, and no estimate in size |
23:59 |
asciilifeform |
you received or sent 1e9 packets, could be anyffin, file, text, rubbish, etc |