00:00 |
asciilifeform |
'Что русскому здорово, то немцу смерть!'(tm)(r) |
00:01 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046403 << see also. |
00:01 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 14:23:07 whaack: mats: If using bitcoin extinguishes bicoin then it's already dead in the water |
00:01 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-17 19:02:50 asciilifeform: billymg: if it at any point even makes sense to discuss 'the fed of bitcoin' -- in any other light than you might discuss 'a 2 that is also a 3' -- the algo was broken. (and was always broken, then.) |
00:02 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046409 << again with the 'viability', as if it were objective ? |
00:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 14:31:54 mats: i lived through those events too, this isn't similar, it strikes at the fundamental viability of bitcoins |
00:03 |
asciilifeform |
per asciilifeform , for instance, the way it is nao, encrusted with speculator barnacles liquidating at the drop of a hat, is not at all 'viable'. |
00:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-05 19:59:44 asciilifeform: as a rule, they're entirely happy to buy promisecoin, so can 'leverage' and 'play'. |
00:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-11 15:09:36 asciilifeform: actual commerce, i.e. the kind where you MAKE things, sell'em, do actual services for people, it is -- punished -- by the volatility |
00:03 |
signpost |
lemme rephrase then. |
00:04 |
* |
asciilifeform still eating log, but no reason why to wait |
00:04 |
signpost |
it may be the case already that bitcoin cannot exist without destroying the state, but if not, the liquidation of the segwit stash would make that the case. |
00:04 |
signpost |
may or may not be mats' view. |
00:05 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: asciilifeform's , ftr, pov re 'bitcoin and the reich' |
00:05 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-16 22:06:03 asciilifeform: upstack, stratagem 'shoot erryone who so much as mentioned bitcoin' was 'the spoon is good at dinner time', i.e. was the 'thing to do' 7y ago. before the oligarchs bought in. (these generally do not appreciate attempts to make their holdings worthless) |
00:05 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. is actually well-integrated, as happens, with the reich, oddly enuff ) |
00:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046422 << 'dividing the skin of the bear while it's still alive'(tm). (go, generate the tx, see if gets mined? why not) |
00:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 14:46:06 whaack: maybe 98% miner and 2% for yourself, i'm happy with 2% of 5mil+ coin |
00:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046425 << the 1st (and afaik only) such 'showdown' was in '17, when mp contracted asciilifeform to liquidate coupla thou phorqcoins. (did not have the spectacular effect he expected on exch rate, it took coupla hundred similar people doing same thing to 'tank' it) |
00:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 14:49:55 mats: in a showdown between trbcoin and segwitcoin, trb loses |
00:09 |
asciilifeform |
somehow trb (if you will -- trb is evidently not the only trb-compat. client in use worldwide, tho who and with what else, remains mystery) 'not lost'. |
00:10 |
punkman |
trb has nothing to lose in first place |
00:10 |
asciilifeform |
was about to get to this, lol |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046430 << this oughta be direct q for mats : what aspects of current-day bitcoin are you 'married' to, in such a way that their demolition would be from your pov 'the end of' it ? |
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00:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 14:55:00 mats: the miners that inappropriately spend segwit coin see their transactions unwound, and if they can't cooperate to do that, maybe that's the end of btc |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
is it the log10(btc-usd) ? if loses zero, 'the end' ? 2 ? 3 ? 4 zeros ? |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
or which is it. |
00:12 |
signpost |
if I can't buy anothing of significant value with the thing, what's it doing for me? |
00:12 |
signpost |
*anything |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046431 << let all those in whom fear is induceable, get the fuck out. |
00:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 14:57:20 mats: illiquidity induces fear like nothing else |
00:12 |
signpost |
damned mac keyboard is falling apart. |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: depends what 'anything'. asciilifeform for instance will continue to offer hosting. (and if opens yet another shop, ditto there) |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
... offer strictly for proper, classical btc. |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
and if it has to be cpu-mined on 20 old pentiums, then fuck, let it. like in the 'pizza' days. |
00:14 |
asciilifeform |
it scales down to that, handily. imho was best at ~that~ scale, in fact. i.e. minus all the speculators, 'whales', misc. scum. |
00:14 |
mats |
being upset with speculators makes about as much sense as being upset with buyers |
00:15 |
asciilifeform |
mats: it aint about the flies, but about the shit that attracts'em. |
00:15 |
mats |
or that water is wet |
00:15 |
* |
signpost does not see the value of a network that can at best move around some subset of $21mil USD |
00:15 |
asciilifeform |
mno, it aint 'he complains that water is wet', it's 'the pipe is gushing geiser of liquishit' |
00:15 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: evidently the early btc users disagreed. saw. |
00:15 |
asciilifeform |
'what good is a baby?'(faraday) |
00:16 |
mats |
if btcusd goes from $32,000 to $320, its dead, yeah |
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00:16 |
asciilifeform |
mats: care to expand ? or simply saying it's dead to mats |
00:16 |
asciilifeform |
or alleging that asciilifeform will not be able to transact ? ( why not ? ) |
00:17 |
mats |
money relies on network effects, why would i want to use a deeply illiquid shitcoin? |
00:17 |
signpost |
if it cycles between bubbles and busts forever, it's never getting out of being denominated by USD (or CNY, or whichever govt shitcoin) |
00:17 |
asciilifeform |
or because for mats , the whole point of bitcoin is 'elevator to moon', and if it aint going to moon at the rate you like, then 'dead' and let's use some shitcoin with permissioned mining ? is that it ? |
00:17 |
signpost |
which'd suggest to me that it's not the weapon satoshi tried to build. |
00:18 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: no, meant to wrestle currency free of govt. |
00:18 |
asciilifeform |
it aint clear to asciilifeform that shitoshi had any kinda plan or intelligent thought re 'ultimates' |
00:18 |
asciilifeform |
whole thing consists solidly of happenstance, like a dog shit |
00:19 |
mats |
the whitepaper is clear |
00:19 |
asciilifeform |
clear about what ? |
00:19 |
mats |
usd is being mismanaged, he proposed a solution |
00:20 |
mats |
ok, not the paper, but his forum posts |
00:20 |
mats |
and the genesis block |
00:20 |
asciilifeform |
mats: not disputing that 'claimed solution'. but the proggy as it actually was written, nor the algo (where entirely failed to foresee centralization of mining) does not suggest elaborate planning |
00:20 |
punkman |
when was first pool? |
00:21 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046441 << it doesn't, lol, near as i can tell |
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00:21 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 15:42:25 whaack: shinohai: how does asciilifeform's piece relate? |
00:21 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: good q. i recall already existing pools in '11 |
00:21 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046447 << possibly worth to think about why 'some other network' not already 'taken its place' |
00:21 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 16:24:47 signpost: as mats says, draining the segwitcoins would extinguish bitcoin, and some other network would take its place. |
00:22 |
signpost |
plenty of discussions in the past about satoshi potentially having an off-switch for bitcoin. |
00:23 |
signpost |
why then would 5mil BTC suddenly in one hand not be another off-switch? |
00:23 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: imho not off switch, but rather final exam. |
00:24 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046457 << asciilifeform aint trolling when says that he would prefer that ALL Official exchanges were to die and not come back in any form whatsoever. |
00:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 16:33:18 whaack: i admit that the infrastructure of a huge number of wallets and exchanges collapsing does not bode well |
00:25 |
asciilifeform |
ideally bitcoin would be something you can only get in-wot, at all. |
00:25 |
* |
asciilifeform has already treated it as this, from beginning |
00:25 |
punkman |
pools being centralized, is not same as mining rig installations being centralized. seems to me there's big variety of people owning mining installations. |
00:25 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: and all made at 1 (2?) fab |
00:25 |
asciilifeform |
that's where centralized. |
00:25 |
asciilifeform |
there's literally no industry on planet3 moar centralized than bleeding edge si fabbing |
00:25 |
asciilifeform |
not even orbital launch |
00:27 |
punkman |
seems main players are Bitmain, Whatsminer and Avalon |
00:28 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046458 << the reason bitcoin 'returns to life' erry time it 'dies' , is imho this. it's the only 'built before the money morons stormed in' item, and this aint changeable. |
00:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 16:33:27 signpost: that is utter nonsense. "bitcoin failed." is what will happen in that scenario. |
00:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-10 20:07:12 trinque: that there is a buterin in the social system called ethereum |
00:28 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: afaik there's exactly 1 player: tmsc. |
00:29 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. if you want to thermonuke 'bitmain', 'whatsminer', 'avalon', in terms of hash %, you will need to build a new tmsc. |
00:29 |
asciilifeform |
(and a pyongyang to do it in) |
00:29 |
mats |
in tsmc news, the planned onshore us 5nm fab is being upsized 5x |
00:30 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: re: there being no buterin in btc, if somebody controlled 5mil BTC, they'd be btcuterin |
00:30 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: until his bluff is called |
00:30 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046643 << ok, just to work out the details of this scenario. if this happened, in a hypothetical segwitocalypse fork, there would still be a 21M cap on freedom bitcoin, no? and freedom bitcoin holders wouldn't necessarily be any poorer right out of the gate either, as they have coins on both chains now... |
00:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:16:18 mats: if btcusd goes from $32,000 to $320, its dead, yeah |
00:30 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046660 <<< perhaps I misunderstood the context but wtf ever, rather tired of the btc wars. |
00:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:21:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046441 << it doesn't, lol, near as i can tell |
00:30 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: forkwar aint the only way to 'tank' exch rate |
00:31 |
signpost |
maybe we get to find out. these are just the skryings of my butt. |
00:31 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: my contention aint that 'go to sleep, be happy' , but that what to some is 'bitcoin is dead!' to others is 'finally alive' |
00:31 |
mats |
whats the difference between this and atc, i don't get it |
00:32 |
signpost |
this is indisputable, sure. |
00:32 |
mats |
why aren't you using atc? |
00:32 |
asciilifeform |
for it to be properly dead, would need a) fatal break in ecdsa b) there is no (b) |
00:32 |
asciilifeform |
mats: because it wasn't first. |
00:32 |
asciilifeform |
mats: do you understand what decentralization means ? |
00:32 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i guess even so, if exchange rate tanks, and 21M limit stays intact, and printolade continues to be printed (because of course it will be), then number eventually goes up again |
00:33 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: as it always has previously. because there aint actually an alternative. (only buncha scamola-shitcoins, i.e. get-rich schemes centrally managed by ~someone~ in all cases) |
00:33 |
* |
signpost brb |
00:33 |
* |
billymg would swallow pride and work for SV company again just to get the opportunity to buy cheap coins again |
00:33 |
mats |
is the network more or less centralized when the price and hash presumably fall two magnitudes? |
00:34 |
asciilifeform |
actually i can think of a 'b', i.e. a way for bitcoin to die. if the proverbial 'provable satoshi' were to show, and start exerting 'autoritas' etc |
00:34 |
asciilifeform |
mats: never falls for long. |
00:35 |
mats |
hope i live long enough to see the outcome |
00:35 |
* |
asciilifeform still trying to figure out what prompted this thread; doesn't look like anyone's invented 'the bomb' quite yet |
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00:36 |
asciilifeform |
or even demonstrated that it could exist. |
00:37 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046708 << perhaps me saying segwit fork already happened |
00:37 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:35:42 asciilifeform: still trying to figure out what prompted this thread; doesn't look like anyone's invented 'the bomb' quite yet |
00:38 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: was speaking of the hypothetical 'segwit lift' |
00:39 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046501 << to the extent there's even a 'battle' between 'trb' compat. and prbism , as such -- so far front has not moved an inch -- asciilifeform is still 100% able to send and receive traditional bitcoin. may be worth asking why this is so. |
00:39 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 16:59:23 signpost: (which includes yes, pointing out every flaw in prb, but knowing the flaws doesn't mass the army to kill it) |
00:39 |
asciilifeform |
( why 'powerrangers' not succeeded in actually breaking the protocol ? it surely was not from lack of wanting to. or from lack of pile of usd with which to try. or lack of support from reich. why so far failed ? ) |
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00:40 |
asciilifeform |
before anyone lolasks, wasn't 'mp's seekrit magick' either. |
00:40 |
signpost |
entirely not the point. |
00:40 |
* |
signpost is not interested in an item that cannot become relevant at a civilizational scale. |
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00:40 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: i suspect i may be missing the point ? |
00:40 |
signpost |
I'm not ftr convinced it cannot. |
00:40 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: is e.g. superconductor 'relevant at civilizational scale' ? |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
( do you have one at home ? know anyone who does ? ) |
00:41 |
signpost |
that you do not care about the social systems around currencies is fine. |
00:41 |
signpost |
but it is not the only view. |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: there's , i suspect, >1 view |
00:42 |
signpost |
for sure, no harm there |
00:42 |
asciilifeform |
folx do tend to dwell on 1 particular pov. and, seems to asciilifeform , normally depends on where they stand on the ladder |
00:42 |
asciilifeform |
(e.g. 'pile of btc' deforms psyche in different way than... but i digress ) |
00:43 |
thimbronion |
whaack: I do |
00:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046512 << the 'bang' of bioweapons is greatly exaggerated historically. 'unit 731' has ~0 impact on the war. worth to read about why. |
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00:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:05:03 punkman: garage-fabbed bio weapons is when things get interesting |
00:45 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046518 << asciilifeform has been grinding out a spec for third wk nao. maybe 1/2 done at this pt. (had to, several times, throw away large chunks of algo, when chalkboard demonstrated that it was dud) |
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00:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:06:32 signpost: wants the decentralized wot, decentralized comms network, cryptographic control of what information leaks from my relationships |
00:46 |
punkman |
I like the "bitcoin is cybercountry" view |
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00:46 |
punkman |
more than "cryptocurrency" |
00:46 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046537 << the historical silk road made do with local (temporally and spatially) centers. |
00:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:14:47 mats: centralisation is on a continuum, necessary for basic activities like meeting and making markets |
00:47 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046538 << 'hey, i know what we were missing: a dowager empress' said afaik nobody anywhere |
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00:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:15:09 punkman: hanbot is possible only person with enough bitcoin to bootstrap a trb-coin |
00:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046547 << outta curiosity, for what need money to fight ? depending on what means 'to fight', some of these things e.g. asciilifeform did and does just find w/out money |
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00:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:24:45 mats: if hanbot is reading, please to return jurov's money, some of us still want to fight you know |
00:49 |
asciilifeform |
*just fine |
00:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046551 << 2kW/24h costs ~4$ here, so no need to steal it, can simply host in asciilifeform's dc |
00:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:31:45 punkman: find place that's not gonna notice extra 2-3kw, gets you like $30/day at current prices |
00:50 |
asciilifeform |
tho still strikes asciilifeform as vehehery slim profit, considering the cost of the machine |
00:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046559 << only if you have income denominated in something else, neh ? the debt doesn't get easier to repay, otherwise, simply because e.g. usd is 'sinking' |
00:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:58:46 mats: its a great time to borrow fiat imo |
00:52 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: sourcing machines, possibly importing/exporting is certainly the harder part. finding cheap power is easy |
00:52 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: aha, is always the asics that is the controlled/monopolized part, not the mains current |
00:54 |
punkman |
apparently you can mine with used, 4-year-old-generation machines, the supply of these could be way more predictable than expecting bitmain to ship latest-gen on time |
00:55 |
punkman |
oilrig machines, also free power |
00:55 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: a machine that you ~can get~, is by this token vastly superior to one that you simply cannot |
00:55 |
asciilifeform |
even if n times less efficient |
00:56 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046586 << this lol was promised a while back. i can picture hdd makers in a seekrit bunker, conferring, 'the gpu people had their day in the sun, now our turn to milk the morons' |
00:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 19:42:12 punkman: https://www.chia.net/ Bram Cohen (bittorrent guy) finally launched his thing. Mining rigs are pile of HDDs, so when you stop mining, you still got pile of HDDs. |
00:57 |
punkman |
thing says it has 30exabytes, not bad |
00:57 |
punkman |
seems like it's the biggest hdd coin, and there's a handful of them |
00:58 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: and see also. |
00:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-28 13:08:51 asciilifeform: and in general all 'oddball algo by anon' are guilty until proven innocent of being elaborate smoke&mirror schemes for inflatola, premine, or even straight magic-key theft |
00:58 |
asciilifeform |
there is elementarily no proof (nor expect one to be possible) that it actually ~requires~ that mass of hdd. |
00:59 |
punkman |
I collected a few papers to read, but yeah I suspect shoddy proofs |
00:59 |
asciilifeform |
the unfailing, per asciilifeform , algo re shitcoinism : take the most cynical fraud you can imagine to be possible with $subj. assume that it, x9000, is happening. |
00:59 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: think, why would the perp even bother, if he did not have 'trump card' ? |
01:00 |
asciilifeform |
erryone wants to 'be satoshi'. how to achieve this if not by somehow replaying history with $perp at 'the center'. |
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01:03 |
* |
asciilifeform will summarize re thread : worth to recall (was mpism?) 'bitcoin can be useful without being useful ~to you~', can be usable-without-being-usable-by-you, etc. and will continue to work as originally designed even if with 5 people. |
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01:03 |
asciilifeform |
and ftr asciilifeform aint ever, at any point or for any reason, 'moving' to a buterinized (i.e. with a detectable 'ruler' or equivalent) shitcoin. |
01:04 |
punkman |
I don't think it's much useful with 5 people, or 21 with a million each |
01:04 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: objectively was useful to the 5 people who, at one point, were the userbase. |
01:04 |
asciilifeform |
if this does not include punkman -- is b/w him and odin strictly |
01:04 |
punkman |
was not, it was interesting toy |
01:04 |
asciilifeform |
is interesting toy to asciilifeform . today. |
01:04 |
asciilifeform |
nothing more. |
01:05 |
asciilifeform |
and this is because of the volatility. |
01:07 |
asciilifeform |
the electro-hawala aspect aint going anywhere, and it is presently handicapped by the volatility. |
01:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-15 22:50:48 asciilifeform: 1 btc has certain very useful properties that 1 usd does not . |
01:09 |
asciilifeform |
anyways, imho if it in fact is possible to 'break bitcoin', the sooner it happens, the better. |
01:09 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-16 22:18:33 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-16#1026447 << would like to emphasize -- imho if this is physically possible, then the sooner it takes place, the better. so can move on from the broken algo, to something else. |
01:09 |
asciilifeform |
a broken algo that no one's concretely fucked yet, is still a broken algo. |
01:09 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl. |
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~ 22 minutes ~ |
01:32 |
vex |
I don't understand anyonecanspend, is it possible to test with a few nodes? |
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~ 3 hours 17 minutes ~ |
04:50 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046732 I anticipate being able to critique it, asciilifeform. |
04:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:45:31 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046518 << asciilifeform has been grinding out a spec for third wk nao. maybe 1/2 done at this pt. (had to, several times, throw away large chunks of algo, when chalkboard demonstrated that it was dud) |
04:51 |
mats |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046740 << without going into more detail, speculative attack |
04:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:48:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046547 << outta curiosity, for what need money to fight ? depending on what means 'to fight', some of these things e.g. asciilifeform did and does just find w/out money |
04:55 |
mats |
i still don't understand how you can think that the hash won't also follow if the price takes a 100x dive. power generation costs money. and what happens to confirmation times should hash go to 0.001 exabytes / if btcusd goes to $1 ? how many months or decades will it take for diff to ratchet down? |
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04:59 |
mats |
and, the hash that gets turned off doesn't necessarily mean equipment is destroyed, it may be utilized for difficulty adjustment attacks, to do to btc what's been done to atc and others |
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05:05 |
mats |
i also don't understand how volatility will go down if btc goes back to being a 21mn usd item |
05:11 |
mats |
pick a penny stock or altcoin in that neighborhood and look at the chart |
05:14 |
asciilifeform |
mats: imho you've drawn an escherian staircase. in this hypothetical, bitcoin so cheap that scarcely any energy can be mustered for honest mining; but somehow lavish budgets for adjustment attacks ? |
05:16 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046785 << absolutely nuffin that's happened to date re difficulty would take more time to undo than btc has existed, elementarily. (and in practice considerably shorter.) |
05:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 00:55:04 mats: i still don't understand how you can think that the hash won't also follow if the price takes a 100x dive. power generation costs money. and what happens to confirmation times should hash go to 0.001 exabytes / if btcusd goes to $1 ? how many months or decades will it take for diff to ratchet down? |
05:16 |
asciilifeform |
('decades' is nonsense no matter how you cut it.) |
05:17 |
asciilifeform |
mats: ... granted, asciilifeform's hypothetical of 'falls to $1' is similarly 'escherian', it is difficult to paint a convincing portrait of how it could happen (specifically 1$, not 0 as in 'ecdsa broken' etc) |
05:17 |
* |
signpost about to knock off for the night, but observes something unsaid. |
05:18 |
* |
asciilifeform also to bed shortly |
05:18 |
signpost |
were there a son-of-trb that wasn't made of bubblegum and duct tape, and were there a path to that from present chain, I'd use, happily. |
05:18 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: what means 'son of' here ? |
05:19 |
asciilifeform |
sumthing's either trb-compat. or it aint, neh |
05:19 |
asciilifeform |
and what'd mean 'path from present chain' , likewise ? either you're on ~the~ chain or you aint. |
05:19 |
signpost |
there's plenty of dogshit still left if "cleaner-code-but-trb-compat" |
05:19 |
asciilifeform |
cleaner -- sure |
05:20 |
asciilifeform |
but i thought signpost's hypothetical was re a 'new bitcoin', 'trbi' , etc |
05:20 |
asciilifeform |
by how was phrased |
05:20 |
* |
asciilifeform to this day skeptical that such a thing could ever be perceived as anything other than -- or be anything other than -- 'some fuck trying to get rich' |
05:20 |
signpost |
your view of money isn't mine. |
05:21 |
* |
asciilifeform not prepared to agree or disagree, does not actually know precisely signpost's view of money |
05:21 |
mats |
huh? say if 1 of 100 exahashes are left because the price craters and most no-one can mine +ev, how does that 1 find enough blocks to get to the adjustment in reasonable time? and then the next adjustment? |
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05:21 |
asciilifeform |
mats: you mine -ev. |
05:22 |
asciilifeform |
like incidentally for past 11y. |
05:22 |
asciilifeform |
mining is -ev, mats. |
05:22 |
asciilifeform |
(unless w/ stolen current ~and~ asics somehow..) |
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05:23 |
signpost |
eh, there's a core disagreement and this ain't it. |
05:23 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: what, in your pov, explains why not 1 shitcoin has been able to remotely approach exch rt. of btc ? |
05:23 |
mats |
a lot of power was stranded at the margin in china, bitcoin mining was +ev |
05:24 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: that line of questioning wont arrive at my destination either. |
05:24 |
mats |
and still is afaict... |
05:24 |
signpost |
lemme attempt a start from the top. |
05:24 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: not pressing matter, don't let me keep you past bedtime |
05:25 |
mats |
yeah, pick this up tomorrow, hands are bothering |
05:25 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: you did pique my curiosity tho |
05:25 |
signpost |
asciilifeform appears to not give a shit about the economic phenomenon bitcoin, and cares only that a particular protocol is operating among peers in a wot, presumably to perform w/e transactions between them |
05:25 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: i must disagree |
05:25 |
signpost |
I am unclear on how this tiny wot maintains even epsilon turkey-dollar value with which to whatever |
05:25 |
asciilifeform |
simply, i preferred bitcoin as it was in 2010-11 to the present one. |
05:25 |
signpost |
pls to explain the preference |
05:26 |
signpost |
appears "would rather burn forest to remove bugs, and let grow back" |
05:26 |
asciilifeform |
the chrematists weren't 'in' yet. |
05:26 |
asciilifeform |
they ruin errything they touch, and the only defense against'em is to be small. |
05:27 |
asciilifeform |
like e.g. irc was in 1989. linux in 1995. etc |
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05:27 |
signpost |
yep, so I understand you then. |
05:27 |
asciilifeform |
if someone invents another defense -- i'ma be 1st to take an interest. |
05:27 |
asciilifeform |
to date, sadly, only 1 known. |
05:27 |
signpost |
those items were sustained by the excess of an economic (sham) machine that is apparently dying. |
05:27 |
asciilifeform |
indeed so |
05:28 |
* |
signpost doesn't know whether that's ragnarok or bottleneck, but it is the problem with which he's preoccupied. |
05:29 |
signpost |
if both Bitcoin and the sham empire die together, so do we all, I imagine. |
05:29 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: virtually 100% of asciilifeform's pov on the subj, to this very day is represented by his orig. piece. bitcoinism went 'wrong' when switched from being an experiment in decentralization, with eye to actual progress in that direction, to 'how to milk the morons' and inspiration for 9000+ intelligence-insulting pyramids |
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05:29 |
* |
signpost considers this something to fight. |
05:29 |
signpost |
yep, perhaps so. |
05:30 |
signpost |
but I consider us to be talking about the same thing now, so I'll wish y'all a good night. |
05:30 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform likes 'fight' as much as anyone, but exhorts folx to think 'in what direction to fight' |
05:30 |
* |
signpost nods |
05:30 |
asciilifeform |
(this is lulzy ru meme, 'you're warring in the wrong direction!') |
05:30 |
* |
asciilifeform must to bed. |
05:30 |
asciilifeform |
goodnight signpost , mats , et al |
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~ 4 hours 14 minutes ~ |
09:45 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046786 << relevant: https://twitter.com/btcinchina/status/1415923704375123970 |
09:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 00:59:17 mats: and, the hash that gets turned off doesn't necessarily mean equipment is destroyed, it may be utilized for difficulty adjustment attacks, to do to btc what's been done to atc and others |
09:50 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046807 << if miners still want to mine but stuck in difficulty-trap, I think only solution is difficulty-change-by-fiat |
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09:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 01:21:36 mats: huh? say if 1 of 100 exahashes are left because the price craters and most no-one can mine +ev, how does that 1 find enough blocks to get to the adjustment in reasonable time? and then the next adjustment? |
09:54 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046837 << why is milking the morons such a bad thing |
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09:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 01:29:34 asciilifeform: signpost: virtually 100% of asciilifeform's pov on the subj, to this very day is represented by his orig. piece. bitcoinism went 'wrong' when switched from being an experiment in decentralization, with eye to actual progress in that direction, to 'how to milk the morons' and inspiration for 9000+ intelligence-insulting pyramids |
09:59 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046829 << http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-07-26#1690214 |
09:59 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 01:27:00 asciilifeform: like e.g. irc was in 1989. linux in 1995. etc |
09:59 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-07-26 phf: relatedly to the other conversation, though i grew up on the same yarns as asciilifeform, i start to think that usenet was the original reddit, just the guys were smarter, perhaps even grownups. i posted on reddit at some point, and i want to believe that my comments were carefully constructed and detailed, but there were many reasons that we |
10:01 |
punkman |
was on greek IRC in 1998, dunno how similar to US IRC in 1989, but there was nothing there, absolutely a reddit. |
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10:11 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046730 << didn't the japs kill plenty of chinks with plague? sure JP lost the war, so 731 didn't get to drop the plague on US. Is it that doing a bio-911 won't change the world, or that bio-911 can't happen? |
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10:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:44:20 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046512 << the 'bang' of bioweapons is greatly exaggerated historically. 'unit 731' has ~0 impact on the war. worth to read about why. |
10:19 |
punkman |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fSzXvXIAAOlmz?format=jpg&name=large << apparently yarchive.net is moldbug's brother's thing. and once upon a time was caught with pipe bomb. fun. |
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~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~ |
11:54 |
gregory4 |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046732 << once this is done, I will try to be the first to implement it. |
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11:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:45:31 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046518 << asciilifeform has been grinding out a spec for third wk nao. maybe 1/2 done at this pt. (had to, several times, throw away large chunks of algo, when chalkboard demonstrated that it was dud) |
12:08 |
punkman |
https://bitriver.farm/en/why << kinda cool russian mining dc "we have gone a step farther by having an in-house repair center" |
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~ 37 minutes ~ |
12:46 |
gregory4 |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fSzXvXIAAOlmz?format=jpg&name=large << the police-sergeant mentioned, Paul Vance, was the spokesperson in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. |
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~ 17 minutes ~ |
13:03 |
punkman |
more context: https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2003/10/08/law-school-bomb-suspect-allegedly-cleared/ |
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13:15 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046850 << I understand asciilifeform to consider the volatility a barrier to legitimate business growing within BTC. |
13:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 05:54:08 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046837 << why is milking the morons such a bad thing |
13:15 |
signpost |
the question then would be whether the milking generates the volatility. |
13:16 |
signpost |
certainly the use of extreme leverage on fiat-tronic exchanges contributes. |
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13:18 |
signpost |
there is also the plain fact that a limited and dwindling amount of BTC is created per 10min. if this is all bought up, exchange rates are going to spike wildly. |
13:19 |
signpost |
if no one is buying, exchange rates are going to crash as miners dump to pay for electricity. |
13:20 |
signpost |
the cycle of difficulty adjustments and block "drought" during these to consider. |
13:22 |
signpost |
so it appears to me that while the gambling has some effect, satoshi also made choices that will contribute volatility while block rewards still outweigh fees https://coin.dance/blocks/feerewardratio |
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↖ ↖ |
13:23 |
signpost |
one might see this as the cost of bootstrapping a coin; one doesn't run the engine with the starter engaged forever, etc |
13:25 |
signpost |
also, obviously I ignored buying and selling among existing holders above. that must also be considered, but was pointing out that there's a fundamental choke point where new BTC enters, and a fundamental selling pressure generated by mining. |
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13:26 |
* |
signpost still considers that were mining eradicated (somehow!), that system would be far superior. |
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13:34 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046740 << the enemy doesn't fuck up the world with spare cycles after clocking out, with no disrespect to asciilifeform's works |
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13:34 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:48:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046547 << outta curiosity, for what need money to fight ? depending on what means 'to fight', some of these things e.g. asciilifeform did and does just find w/out money |
13:36 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046765 << this approaches solipsism. |
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13:36 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 21:03:08 asciilifeform: will summarize re thread : worth to recall (was mpism?) 'bitcoin can be useful without being useful ~to you~', can be usable-without-being-usable-by-you, etc. and will continue to work as originally designed even if with 5 people. |
13:38 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046734 << imho bitcoin cannot be this by itself; cypherpunkia is missing other fundamental structures |
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13:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:46:19 punkman: I like the "bitcoin is cybercountry" view |
13:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 17:06:32 signpost: wants the decentralized wot, decentralized comms network, cryptographic control of what information leaks from my relationships |
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~ 56 minutes ~ |
14:34 |
PeterL |
signpost: RE the decentralized WOT, with asciilifeform's idea of each person running an irc node and hooking a bot to it, how much work would it take to have multiple deedbot's talking to each other to update a wot database? |
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~ 33 minutes ~ |
15:07 |
punkman |
if I had a personal wot/deed-bot, I'd like: 1. Store list of public keys I'm interested in. 2. Have it watch/crawl various locations with various filtering rules for signed (or possibly unsigned) messages (ratings, deeds, other). 3. Present feed with new items and compile local database of ratings/deeds. |
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15:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046848 << the trouble with 'change by fiat' is that it creates a shitcoin. |
15:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 05:50:09 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046807 << if miners still want to mine but stuck in difficulty-trap, I think only solution is difficulty-change-by-fiat |
15:23 |
punkman |
what if the 5 people using it don't care about this "shitcoinness" |
15:23 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: can do this even now, then! |
15:23 |
asciilifeform |
that's the beauty, folx can do more or less whatever they like |
15:24 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform for instance wouldn't mind if tx took 7d (1000x of current interval) instead of 10min, for whatever spell of time |
15:25 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046850 << imho cumulative history of bitcoinism is an excellent illustration of the 'why'. ~100% of the technical acumen has gone into finding ever new ways to defraud people, rather than solving the problems which factually exist from pov of honest user |
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15:25 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 05:54:08 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046837 << why is milking the morons such a bad thing |
15:25 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-28 13:08:51 asciilifeform: and in general all 'oddball algo by anon' are guilty until proven innocent of being elaborate smoke&mirror schemes for inflatola, premine, or even straight magic-key theft |
15:28 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046855 << i'ma have to take punkman's word for this. but i suspect, punkman , that by 'reddit' you meant 'pit of inconsequential idlers', rather than the much darker actual meaning, 'centrally-herded idlers' of actual reddit -- this item was not perfected until 2000s |
15:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 06:01:41 punkman: was on greek IRC in 1998, dunno how similar to US IRC in 1989, but there was nothing there, absolutely a reddit. |
15:29 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046856 << very interesting subj (possibly more interesting to asciilifeform that other folx, because for a time worked in usg's 'peacewashed' hidden-in-plain-sight 'defensive' bugspray-for-humans program) |
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15:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 06:11:15 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046730 << didn't the japs kill plenty of chinks with plague? sure JP lost the war, so 731 didn't get to drop the plague on US. Is it that doing a bio-911 won't change the world, or that bio-911 can't happen? |
15:32 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: there are several tricky bits in bioweapon . microbes/virii expensive to culture, to evaluate, to package in deployable format. and once 'fired', rapidly loses virulence (via neg. selection pressure; and, if you had made artificial changes to the organism, via other, less-understood mechanisms, these end up unraveling). |
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15:33 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: the other tricky bit is that the attractive, if you will , feature -- the contagion -- only worx when target is already concentrated and living in poor sanitation. against these, ordinary carpet bombing worx just the same, at a fraction of the cost and at ~0 danger to the wielder's own army. |
15:35 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: afaik the 1 'promising' development at 731 (per ru sources, which had more or less whole docs somehow) was the trick of coating shrapnel balls in a microbial soup to guarantee septic wounds. but even this turned out not to be worth the cost. much cheaper to simply produce moar shells of the ordinary kind. |
15:37 |
asciilifeform |
biowar is 1 of those 'sexy' ideas that is as old as plagues. will prolly keep coming back 4evah. but from a roi pov -- doesn't win. |
15:38 |
punkman |
roi as in maximum bodies? |
15:38 |
punkman |
but the win is in maximum terror |
15:38 |
asciilifeform |
( not to be confused with 'theatrical' biowar , as e.g. the 1 happening now, which -- for certain people, for certain values of 'win' -- does win ) |
15:38 |
PeterL |
roi = bodies per dollar spent |
15:39 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: turns out , can make the terror w/out the expensive microbes and potential own goals |
15:42 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046858 << aha, it was. btw prolly half the male population of usa could be connected with similar 'gunpowder plot' if 'needed' -- 'police searched, they found gunpowder somewhere and a pipe somewhere' |
15:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 06:19:08 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fSzXvXIAAOlmz?format=jpg&name=large << apparently yarchive.net is moldbug's brother's thing. and once upon a time was caught with pipe bomb. fun. |
15:42 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-05-10 asciilifeform: remember, this was the country where a man got 20 yrs for being found with a shoelace and a semiauto |
15:42 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: in usg.jurisprudence, concept goes by name 'constructive possession'. |
15:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046859 << why ty. |
15:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 07:54:10 gregory4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046732 << once this is done, I will try to be the first to implement it. |
15:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046863 << pretty interesting; iirc not widely publicized at the time |
15:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:03:24 punkman: more context: https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2003/10/08/law-school-bomb-suspect-allegedly-cleared/ |
15:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046867 << it is asciilifeform's hypothesis that auto-liquidatable positions account for virtually all of it |
15:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:16:43 signpost: certainly the use of extreme leverage on fiat-tronic exchanges contributes. |
15:45 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046871 << the interesting bit re: these (and similar) charts of 'physical' network parameters, is that they do not afaik appear to have any correlation w/ price (at least such that could be visible to naked eye) |
15:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:22:15 signpost: so it appears to me that while the gambling has some effect, satoshi also made choices that will contribute volatility while block rewards still outweigh fees https://coin.dance/blocks/feerewardratio |
15:46 |
asciilifeform |
i recall 'things will change! and maybe disastrously!' threads around at least the most recent 2 'reward halvings' |
15:46 |
asciilifeform |
result : ~0 (far as asciilifeform could tell) |
15:47 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046871 << not to let shitoshi off the hook, but afaik the volatility happens ~entirely where most trading happens -- in the world of paper coins. which exist more or less wholly separately from the actual net. |
15:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:22:15 signpost: so it appears to me that while the gambling has some effect, satoshi also made choices that will contribute volatility while block rewards still outweigh fees https://coin.dance/blocks/feerewardratio |
15:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046873 << continuing above, it aint clear to asciilifeform that the supply of actual-coin has all that much to do with it, given the 'fractional reserve' nature of the extant goxes (and all the more so where 'leveraged') |
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15:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:25:17 signpost: also, obviously I ignored buying and selling among existing holders above. that must also be considered, but was pointing out that there's a fundamental choke point where new BTC enters, and a fundamental selling pressure generated by mining. |
15:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046874 << while we're at it, who wouldn't also like an antigrav knapsack instead of the clatter, din, and flammable fuels of the airplane. only problem is, no one has yet discovered antigrav... |
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15:50 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:26:16 signpost: still considers that were mining eradicated (somehow!), that system would be far superior. |
15:51 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: just because the fiat exchange rate doesn't change day of the havenings doesn't mean those havenings are not dreaded events by the enemy |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046875 << actually this'd be the '1 saving grace' -- the enemy consists of 'jobsworths' sluggishly doing their 9-5 thing. often enuff 1e7 times less efficient than even 1 'from interest'. |
15:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:34:31 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046740 << the enemy doesn't fuck up the world with spare cycles after clocking out, with no disrespect to asciilifeform's works |
15:52 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-02-18 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron) |
15:52 |
punkman |
morons exist, thus they must be milked. "but we could be solving factual problems of honest user" is not blocked by the morons or the milking. why do you think all that "technical acumen" would be working on the "factual" problems if there were less morons or less milking |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: it could be that i'm thick, but so far i have not witnessed afaik anything i'd consider to be convincing evidence for a macroscopic effect from a 'halving' |
15:53 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: i dont think there's an easy way to prove it has an effect other than speculating |
15:54 |
whaack |
i imagine that the USG has a pool of coins available to dump on the market and they restock that pool partly via mining |
15:54 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: in 60s-80s ru -- space walks, venus probes, 'blue sky' researches that the 'civilized world' is ~still to this day~ parasitizing off. in '90s ru -- no moar of this. instead : 'MMM'. and yes it is my belief that they are mutually exclusive. |
15:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-05-21 20:27:36 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: e.g. |
15:55 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: of course pool, is how they extinguish price when req'd. |
15:56 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: yes i was thinking of your infograph when i typed the above |
15:56 |
whaack |
so not hard to imagine that the mining input to that pool |
15:56 |
whaack |
...being cut in half could have a delayed effect |
15:57 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: the lulzy bit is that it doesn't require in-house mining -- there are much cheaper ways of getting hold of the coins to be dumped |
15:57 |
asciilifeform |
( mining is the singularly most expensive method for getting hold of coin ) |
15:57 |
whaack |
right, it's just one of the various ways |
15:57 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: could also say current ru elite (honest users?) are doing just fine and what do they care about MMM |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
the cheapest method, and one that doesn't even require shooting anyone, is to persuade 'weak hands' to do the dumping for you |
15:59 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: empires with degenerate elites -- eventually conquered (and even prior to this, undergo complexity collapse.) in fact this very thing already happened in ru, the folx currently presiding over it are lizard viceroys |
15:59 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: but sure, from an 'apres moi le deluge' pov , almost anywhere is 'doing fine' for ~someone~, lol |
16:01 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046877 << i'ma have to disagree, given that imho it is exactly ~opposite~ of solipsism, to recognize that even when for you 'game over', for others -- carries on |
16:01 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:36:22 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046765 << this approaches solipsism. |
16:02 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046879 << easier to enumerate the precious little there is, than all that's missing.. |
16:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 09:38:29 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046734 << imho bitcoin cannot be this by itself; cypherpunkia is missing other fundamental structures |
16:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046882 << imho this is a catstrophically misconceived framing. for one thing, irc protocol aint terraformable. for another, why wouldja need 'multiple deedbots' or even one, when you have pubkeys and signatures ? all you need is reliable message propagation. |
| |
↖ |
16:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 10:34:49 PeterL: signpost: RE the decentralized WOT, with asciilifeform's idea of each person running an irc node and hooking a bot to it, how much work would it take to have multiple deedbot's talking to each other to update a wot database? |
16:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-10 17:48:28 asciilifeform: ( likbez re subj. but factually is the algo behind the irc headache -- 'no, you may not have peerings a<->b + a<->c + b<->c ! one of these is redundant! fuck you') |
16:04 |
punkman |
all empires "eventually conquered". you can find MMMs in all times and places, I don't think they are mutually exclusive with anything |
16:05 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: it's a form of civilizational sepsis. |
16:05 |
asciilifeform |
on the scale of mmm, can only happen in 'immunocompromised' population. |
16:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046883 << why wouldja 'pull' in this application? it's more or less the clearest possible case for 'push'. |
16:06 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 11:07:56 punkman: if I had a personal wot/deed-bot, I'd like: 1. Store list of public keys I'm interested in. 2. Have it watch/crawl various locations with various filtering rules for signed (or possibly unsigned) messages (ratings, deeds, other). 3. Present feed with new items and compile local database of ratings/deeds. |
16:06 |
* |
asciilifeform eaten log; find interesting that folx so much more easily get excited about hypothetical problems than actual ones |
16:06 |
asciilifeform |
incl. asciilifeform , not a 'saint' in this respect at all |
16:11 |
punkman |
is it push or pull if it sits in alf-p2p channel and eats messages? |
16:11 |
asciilifeform |
ah hm punkman so you're simply speaking of traditional deedbot ? |
16:11 |
asciilifeform |
the kind that lives in irc chan |
16:12 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: is idjits putting their coins in anyonecanspend addresses hypothetical problems? |
16:13 |
punkman |
could eat from alf-p2p, irc, web, mailbox, according to your needs |
16:13 |
punkman |
and no need to publish anything for anyone else |
16:13 |
whaack |
and ftr i'm writing a proof of concept of "the bomb," will eventually publish the tool so anyone can use it |
16:15 |
whaack |
it's easier than i originally anticipated, since apparently many segwit coins are not even hidden behind a p2sh |
| |
↖ |
16:17 |
whaack |
original thought was that you had to have a process observing the mempool, waiting for a segwit user to spend the coin, so you knew the solution for x in h(x) = y, and then you could quickly try to double spend the txn with a higher fee or something |
16:17 |
whaack |
(this is still true for many segwit addresses) |
16:17 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: neato, will read |
16:18 |
* |
asciilifeform sat down to do this at least 5 times to date, but always ended up interrupted, never got remotely close to finish line, lol |
16:33 |
PeterL |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046951 << we have deedbot to display the wot, that's a single point of failure, wouldn't it be better to at least have it duplicated? |
16:33 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 12:04:31 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046882 << imho this is a catstrophically misconceived framing. for one thing, irc protocol aint terraformable. for another, why wouldja need 'multiple deedbots' or even one, when you have pubkeys and signatures ? all you need is reliable message propagation. |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: my argument is that there oughta be exactly as many 'deedbots' are there are users. |
16:34 |
PeterL |
so that is my question, how amenable is the current deebot to becoming a one-per-user thing, and would there be an easy way for them to broadcast ratings? |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: currently asciilifeform working on the broadcast part of this. |
16:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-18 20:45:31 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046518 << asciilifeform has been grinding out a spec for third wk nao. maybe 1/2 done at this pt. (had to, several times, throw away large chunks of algo, when chalkboard demonstrated that it was dud) |
16:41 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: share a draft? |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: likely this wk |
16:48 |
* |
thimbronion will read, ask a bunch of dumb q's, etc. |
| |
~ 46 minutes ~ |
17:35 |
punkman |
in other milkings: https://www.virtualdiningconcepts.com/about/ "concepts including MrBreast Burger, Mariah’s Cookies, Tyga Bites, Pauly D’s Subs" |
17:36 |
punkman |
mariah's cookies! |
17:43 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: lolwat, 'virtual food' ? |
| |
↖ |
17:44 |
* |
asciilifeform recalls the tale of hajja nasreddin with the 'pay for food smell!' 'sure, will pay with sound of coins ringing' |
17:45 |
whaack |
!e help |
17:45 |
trbexplorer |
whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-address, view-merkle-root, view-block, verify-all, view-txn, height, push, view-raw-txn, verify-block, view-raw-block, utxos, balance |
17:46 |
whaack |
!e push http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=piyY |
17:46 |
trbexplorer |
code: -25, message: tx rejected, see log for details |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: what does 'verify-all' do ? |
17:48 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: argh that shouldnt actually be exposed to this api, it verifies that all the data in the b |
17:48 |
whaack |
...the blocks hash to their expected values |
17:49 |
* |
whaack is using a new ergo keyboard, please excuse extra typos and accidental enter clicks |
17:52 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: right, was thinking it wasn't meant for irc commandline |
17:52 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: tyvm, i have a dumb design where i b |
17:52 |
whaack |
..blacklist commands instead of whitelisting them |
17:53 |
asciilifeform |
a |
17:53 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: chording kbd like verisimilitude's ? |
17:56 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: nope, xbows keyboard https://x-bows.com/ |
17:56 |
whaack |
i forget which switches i got, but they feel fantastic |
17:56 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046984 << i believe they're called "cloud kitchens" and they've been the hot new startupism trend for the past few years with the rise of delivery apps |
17:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 13:43:37 asciilifeform: punkman: lolwat, 'virtual food' ? |
17:56 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: interesting-looking , at the very least, item |
17:57 |
* |
asciilifeform not historically fond of 'bent' kbds, but some folx very much luvv'em |
17:57 |
whaack |
having shift and ctrl as thumb keys is a+++ |
17:57 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: a, so actual food? for a sec was thinking it was similar to the 'artwork shitcoin' thing |
17:57 |
billymg |
essentially rent time/space in commercial kitchen, put logo on an uber eats listing, now you're a restaurant |
17:57 |
asciilifeform |
lol!! |
17:58 |
whaack |
!e help |
17:58 |
trbexplorer |
whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-address, view-block, view-merkle-root, view-txn, height, push, view-raw-txn, verify-block, view-raw-block, utxos, balance |
17:59 |
billymg |
this one might be a tweak on that idea, where existing established restaurants can launch "logo restaurants" on uber eats using their own kitchen |
17:59 |
whaack |
!e verify-block 1337 |
17:59 |
trbexplorer |
transactions hash to merkle and block header hashes to block hash for block 1337 |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: 'air merchants' never sleep, lol |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
see, exactly the kinda thing asciilifeform was talking about |
18:00 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 11:25:49 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046850 << imho cumulative history of bitcoinism is an excellent illustration of the 'why'. ~100% of the technical acumen has gone into finding ever new ways to defraud people, rather than solving the problems which factually exist from pov of honest user |
18:00 |
whaack |
!e push http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=piyY |
18:00 |
trbexplorer |
code: -25, message: tx rejected, see log for details |
18:01 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: every zoomer now doing "drop ship" business too. where buy plastic gadget from alibaba, then markup 20x and sell on instagram under trendy label |
18:03 |
whaack |
billymg: nono they don't even risk the investment of buying the gadget |
18:03 |
billymg |
exactly like shitcoins, all about creating a meme brand (wither food, gadget, or lotto ticket coin) |
18:03 |
whaack |
they wait until they've |
18:03 |
billymg |
whaack: exactly, they don't hold inventory |
18:03 |
mats |
roi imo shouldnt be calculated in body count per dollar, but a more mercurial measure of will-to-fight stolen per dollar |
18:03 |
whaack |
^ exactly |
18:04 |
asciilifeform |
mats: would need a direct line to god of war to measure, i suspect. |
18:04 |
asciilifeform |
(consider vietnam) |
18:05 |
mats |
remember the conversations about snipers / ieds goal to maim than kill |
18:06 |
mats |
armies of invalids will still be sapping usg budget long after withdrawal |
18:06 |
asciilifeform |
mats: worx esp. well against the overcivilized (who won't simply finish off own wounded) |
18:12 |
whaack |
!e view-txn b9c2374e8b3ee55b770689a729a54336d77f766848cb46ea71e8a053e3196983 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
TXN OVERVIEW |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
txn_hash: b9c2374e8b3ee55b770689a729a54336d77f766848cb46ea71e8a053e3196983 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 690611 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
txn_index: 1 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
size: 114 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
INPUTS |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
txn_hash: fafc912fd71accec857f7e365e1737c38957e1a41bb3e7c3a98fec832ec65ca8 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
out_index: 1 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
value_sats: 15128979 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
scriptsig: |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
OUTPUTS |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
address: 87cbd83d1431730d628a1b25577faf8e1ea33f900114a9 |
18:12 |
trbexplorer |
value_sats: 2943880 |
18:13 |
trbexplorer |
address: 7106379bb6c60edd732e2b2618f58a85152646831400 |
18:13 |
trbexplorer |
value_sats: 12155417 |
18:14 |
whaack |
!e push 0100000001836919e353a0e871ea46cb4868767fd73643a529a78906775be53e8b4e37c2b90100000000ffffffff01f92bb900000000001976a9146c560e9d65f3daf56e44d7c4c6b6bb39c4c120b188ac00000000 |
18:14 |
trbexplorer |
code: -25, message: tx rejected, see log for details |
18:15 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm, interesting |
18:15 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: is this a 'the bomb' demo ? |
18:16 |
whaack |
possibly i have misconstructed the 'bomb' but atm trb seems to reject it |
18:16 |
whaack |
first rejection was because the txn i was trying to snag was spent in the meantime |
18:16 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: yes |
18:16 |
asciilifeform |
nifty. |
18:16 |
asciilifeform |
i'd expect these gotta be fired automatically tho, to work in time |
18:16 |
asciilifeform |
(supposing there were a miner who's willing to eat) |
18:17 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: it appears that is not the case http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1046968 |
18:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 12:15:48 whaack: it's easier than i originally anticipated, since apparently many segwit coins are not even hidden behind a p2sh |
18:17 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm |
18:18 |
whaack |
the automatic ones are on the todo list still |
18:19 |
asciilifeform |
if hash were rentable 'by the pound', would be quite straightforward to pull this off |
18:19 |
* |
asciilifeform would pitch in to fund |
18:20 |
whaack |
so you pay a couple million to mine a block that snags 100k segwit coins? |
18:21 |
whaack |
or something like that? |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: i'd expect 1 block would not suffice |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
gotta have, say, 100 |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
so that impractical to unroll. |
18:27 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: the second shot of this hypothetical 'double tap' would be to, in the event of an ethertard 'we get it back! because reasons!' idjitfork, to market dump the whole yield on the enemy's prong of the fork. but perhaps this is obv. |
18:27 |
asciilifeform |
*ethertard-style |
18:27 |
asciilifeform |
^ how to do this -- 'exercise for the reader' |
18:28 |
* |
asciilifeform realizes that ^ as-stated is impossible, lol |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
eh, at any rate, 'first -- find a chicken'. |
18:29 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-04-23 asciilifeform: i was once taught 'gypsy recipe for chicken' - '1) first, find a chicken' |
18:31 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: the idea is to dump bitcoin holdings on the segwit 'thats not faiiiiir' fork while keeping actual bitcoin safe |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: i admit , wonder whether you could induce 'the bomb' to be mined by including a heroic tx fee (e.g. 100% !) in one |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: right, but it'll only work with pre-fork holdings. |
18:31 |
whaack |
first step is to get trb to actually accept this transaction |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
18:32 |
whaack |
it could be a situation where trb is willing to validate this transaction but not willing to broadcast it |
18:32 |
asciilifeform |
tho not essential, only need miner to accept. how to get it there -- brute force suffices, transmit to erry node from billymg's scan until.. |
18:32 |
asciilifeform |
(supposing can be made edible by anyffin at all) |
18:32 |
whaack |
heathen block explorers are rejecting this transaction with 'no witness data' error or some such |
18:32 |
asciilifeform |
i'd expect. |
18:32 |
whaack |
as i expected them to |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
18:52 |
whaack |
!e view-raw-txn 249000 1 |
18:52 |
trbexplorer |
010000000126ab486178d477625f8db451993d4b86a27169c4cf3953c269a668ceb6ea57a6010000008a4730440220339a4272813da58b3c7f59b610e6a72ed9806a970c9cb727ea9374c6f6d2a39e022050616548e49133d2c8cf90194a955160bbb390e7ce43a97ee17221a60f352a3e014104bfe077fe02078cd29681bb6a48fb395305f7412b4571bb0ae9429a0cd3a18d6a4f8654d6b22b3940cdef15ab5fa61cf43a1903d3ee82223de84558ca88c73756ffffffff0251d24a26130000001976a914d6c0d248859a2e3c6c94c434f10f40165e23ca |
19:06 |
whaack |
!e push http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=BAzt |
19:07 |
trbexplorer |
code: -25, message: tx rejected, see log for details |
19:20 |
whaack |
!e height |
19:20 |
trbexplorer |
690611 |
19:25 |
whaack |
!w probe 205.134.172.28 |
19:25 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=691763 |
19:27 |
whaack |
!e height |
19:27 |
trbexplorer |
690640 |
19:32 |
whaack |
!e height |
19:32 |
trbexplorer |
690681 |
19:33 |
whaack |
this is just anecdotal data, bclicking through heathen blockexplorers, i notice that the "spent" link is active way more often when its next to a segwit address |
19:33 |
whaack |
but clicking* |
19:36 |
whaack |
!e height |
19:36 |
trbexplorer |
690703 |
19:36 |
whaack |
!e view-txn 41bbeb0ba4378cef4043f0a411861ef2fca947ba0420bf42a7c3b03de0af1f73 |
19:36 |
trbexplorer |
Transaction not found. |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
19:53 |
whaack |
!e view-txn a2e7124c3041578530e37388e8e358579722dcd6c387c5eefda1133c4fd4614a |
19:53 |
trbexplorer |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wohk 1 of 1 |
19:57 |
whaack |
!e push 01000000014a61d44f3c13a1fdeec587c3d6dc22975758e3e88873e330855741304c12e7a20000000000ffffffff0270281200000000001976a9146c560e9d65f3daf56e44d7c4c6b6bb39c4c120b188ac70281200000000001976a9146c560e9d65f3daf56e44d7c4c6b6bb39c4c120b188ac00000000 |
19:57 |
trbexplorer |
txid 8a5385db0d79f61964047eb73801fb5d052f2dda6da4213120982c59434080d4 |
19:57 |
whaack |
alright, bomb planted |
20:00 |
thimbronion |
whaack: terrorist! |
20:06 |
whaack |
looks like it's going to sit dormant |
20:20 |
asciilifeform |
oh hey |
20:21 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: what was the reason trb wouldn't eat ? ( and what's in this nuke, exactly ? ) |
20:30 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: trb wouldn't eat the txn because there's actually a minimum transaction length that was not met because i didnt supply any data for the signature |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
ah hm so needed nop padding ? |
20:31 |
* |
asciilifeform vaguely recalls this from the 'sha puzzle tx' incident |
20:32 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0315 is the offending line. I just added another output to solve the problem |
20:33 |
whaack |
brb 20 mins, food |
20:33 |
asciilifeform |
a, neato |
20:33 |
* |
asciilifeform updated logger to colour trbexplorer correctly. |
| |
↖ |
20:43 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
20:43 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
20:43 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
20:43 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.021s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
20:43 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
20:43 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.137s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691754 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.078s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
20:43 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.088s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=691772 (Operator: whaack) |
20:43 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.256s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.294s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.333s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412062 (Operator: jurov) |
20:43 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.334s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.585s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691770 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.855s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 |
20:43 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.471s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=691772 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
20:48 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-19#1047118 << in working on mine at one point went through historical logs and made fairly comprehensive list of bots: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0zgO |
20:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-19 16:33:54 asciilifeform: updated logger to colour trbexplorer correctly. |
20:48 |
billymg |
no guarantees that they're all there though |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: oglafbot wasn't a bot, lol |
20:49 |
billymg |
lol |
20:49 |
billymg |
it looked like a bot |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: was BB putting on bot mask for certain occasions iirc |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere oglafbot |
20:50 |
dulapbot |
oglafbot last seen in #trilema on 2019-05-24 08:33:47: https://www.oglaf.com/glindr/ |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere pokarBot |
20:50 |
dulapbot |
pokarBot last seen in #trilema on 2018-03-10 16:02:03: *shinohai Dealt! shinohai #1 |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
^ was missing from asciilifeform's config |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
possibly others also, will look later |
20:50 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=from%3Aoglafbot&chan=all << looked botlike at first |
20:51 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
20:51 |
billymg |
but i guess there are a few messages that would indicate human |
20:51 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere feedbot |
20:51 |
dulapbot |
feedbot last seen in #asciilifeform on 2021-06-13 15:29:01: http://thetarpit.org/2021/summer-in-the-postmodern-soviets << The Tar Pit -- Summer in the postmodern Soviets |
20:51 |
asciilifeform |
^ RIP ? |
20:52 |
asciilifeform |
possibly perished in the fleanode meltdown |
20:53 |
asciilifeform |
or author simply went. |
20:53 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere spyked |
20:53 |
dulapbot |
spyked last seen in #asciilifeform on 2020-06-18 10:08:47: asciilifeform, danke. fixed and answered: http://thetarpit.org/2020/a-cursory-look-at-the-infamous-trb-wedge-bug#comment-353 |
20:55 |
asciilifeform |
!q uptime |
20:55 |
dulapbot |
asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 33d 17h 52m |
| |
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~ |
22:05 |
whaack |
when I run getmemorypool on my bitcoind my bomb is no where to be found |
22:05 |
whaack |
sciilieform: any clue why this may be? or anyone else know how trb |
22:05 |
whaack |
...trb's memory pool works? |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 48 minutes ~ |
22:53 |
thestringpuller |
signpost: been reading about chainlink and oracle reputation - still trying to grok methodology of "verifying facts" when oracles publish external as part of service agreement. still probably need to read teh whitepaper more thoroughly, but the 100 pages or so isn't what I would call "light reading" |
22:53 |
thestringpuller |
re: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-07#1043502 |
22:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-07 15:52:11 signpost: thestringpuller: see e.g. "chainlink" for other gropes at the problem, how to connect on-chain smart contracts with real world events |
23:04 |
punkman |
thestringpuller: see here https://twitter.com/ercwl/status/1366899834272305153 https://ercwl.medium.com/whats-wrong-with-the-chainlink-2-0-whitepaper-for-simpletons-d50f27049464 |
23:16 |
vex |
whaack, why not test on local fork? mine yourself |