| 12:50 |
awt_akris |
Found a couple of new online "republics." Have joined. Very interesting. |
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| 12:56 |
discord_bridge |
(awtho) Interesting thread re: paper btc: https://twitter.com/Croesus_BTC/status/1712141043796426757 |
| 12:58 |
billymg |
awt: any of them use pgp? or all 'signal' and the like? |
| 12:59 |
awt_akris |
Nah all out in the open - discord, twitter, various saas webshits. |
| |
~ 31 minutes ~ |
| 13:31 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: canhaz links ? ( to the 'republics' etc ) |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 13:47 |
awt_akris |
asciilifeform: most content is behind a paywall. But here's a sort of "link bot" for one of them: https://bowtiedisland.com/about/. The other is completely paywalled, but run by a guy called Meta_Trav (some may recall ParabolicTrav) on x. inb4 "smells like xyz scam." Well aware of all the "make money while u sleep" "l |
| 13:47 |
awt_akris |
earn game" shit. |
| 13:49 |
awt_akris |
In any case, both are hierarchically structured. |
| 13:49 |
awt_akris |
Substitutes for mp's "saloon" |
| 13:50 |
asciilifeform |
'The Master Strategy: Get career on Wall Street M&A, Technology or Sales. Spend free time developing an online business. Buy crypto and stocks. Be set for life in ~3 years.' << lol |
| 13:50 |
awt_akris |
inb4 etc. |
| 13:52 |
awt_akris |
the bowtied guys don't seem to fully grok btc, fucked around (cynically, as if there were another way to do it) with nfts, etc. |
| 13:58 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: entirely possib that they understand correctly |
| 13:58 |
dulapbot |
(asciilifeform) 2021-11-14 asciilifeform: and given as the entire purpose of a shitcoin is to 'replay history' with perp at the center. |
| 14:00 |
asciilifeform |
btc per se long ago went outta the orbit where street scum can '1000% profit' by squeezing pocket change outta over9000 idjits |
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| 14:00 |
awt_akris |
What I like about them is the acknowledgement that there's no future in a corp. job (esp. if white) and I find their attempts to find workarounds interesting. |
| 14:00 |
asciilifeform |
today, from their pov, it is only a destination to cash out into. |
| 14:02 |
awt_akris |
obvs. involves all sorts of unclean involvement with platforms. |
| 14:03 |
asciilifeform |
involves moar proximate insanity |
| 14:03 |
dulapbot |
(asciilifeform) 2023-09-25 asciilifeform: but in asciilifeform's lights, playing 'i'ma do the same thing as 100,000 other folx and i'ma be the one who makes bank Because Reasons' game is a waste of time |
| 14:05 |
awt_akris |
My perspective on this is that it's a war of attrition problem. |
| 14:06 |
awt_akris |
100,000 other folks on average are retards, give up after x weeks, etc. |
| 14:06 |
asciilifeform |
historically in btc scam space it was precisely the tards who 'held bag' longest tho |
| 14:06 |
asciilifeform |
it's the scam operator who (sometimes) wins, rather than the most persistent chump |
| 14:07 |
awt_akris |
well, so there we go. the tards won the war of attrition. |
| 14:08 |
asciilifeform |
lol what precisely did they 'win' ? |
| 14:08 |
awt_akris |
if they held btc? lots |
| 14:08 |
asciilifeform |
afaik most folx who had pile o' coin in 2010 lost ~100% |
| 14:08 |
asciilifeform |
1 way or anuther |
| 14:08 |
asciilifeform |
( either by participating in 'mpexes' or cashing out for chump change ) |
| 14:08 |
awt_akris |
but the war of attrition comment was more wrt "income stream" |
| 14:09 |
asciilifeform |
who & where has 'income stream', other than the folx peddling 'lemme teach you how to Get Rich!' materials |
| 14:11 |
asciilifeform |
for all that was ever said about mp, this is 1 atrocity he afaik never committed |
| 14:11 |
awt_akris |
charged for trilema at one time |
| 14:11 |
awt_akris |
I paid |
| 14:11 |
asciilifeform |
tru |
| 14:12 |
asciilifeform |
but imho importantly did not include promises re 'i'ma teach you to Income Stream' etc |
| 14:13 |
asciilifeform |
this kinda thing has been a glue trap for desperate dimwitts for centuries, long pre-dates btc |
| 14:13 |
awt_akris |
Let's imagine there actually are wealthy folks out there willing to share some info - maybe a small fee is a good filter. Who wants to deal with losers who can't aford 15 bux a month, for example? |
| 14:13 |
asciilifeform |
the 'record of success' -- other than for the perps -- is null set |
| 14:13 |
asciilifeform |
why would they 'willing to share' ? |
| 14:14 |
awt_akris |
Why was mp? Idk. He had some post with almost exactly that title. |
| 14:15 |
asciilifeform |
mp wasn't playing 0sum games against his audience when wrote subj |
| 14:15 |
awt_akris |
having not read any of the work, not sure you can make that claim here. |
| 14:15 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: canhaz link to representative piece ? |
| 14:17 |
awt_akris |
For ex. if they said put 2 mn in treasuries at 5% if you meet x y z conditions, where's the 0 sum in that? |
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| 14:18 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: they may also include 'look 2 ways before crossing streets'. usually these have a mix of 'financial advice' pablum cribbed from open sources and whatever 'magick' |
| 14:19 |
asciilifeform |
sometimes such pieces not even pushing any obv scam line, but simply brag material, a la taleb |
| 14:19 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. author's sole intent is to peacock 'how clever' he supposedly was |
| 14:19 |
dulapbot |
(asciilifeform) 2021-06-10 asciilifeform: learn to win lottery like me!! |
| 14:19 |
awt_akris |
asciilifeform: I am well aware of these tropes. |
| 14:20 |
asciilifeform |
which category subj falls into, cannot say w/out reading specific item |
| 14:20 |
awt_akris |
See for ex. Andrew Tate |
| 14:20 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform's contention, however, is that these are ~the~ categories, 'altruistic fella wants to help us all get rich!' aint a category, cuz it's a logical absurdity |
| 14:20 |
asciilifeform |
tate good example |
| 14:22 |
awt_akris |
Not entirely clear that there's no benefit to having a following of successful men. |
| 14:22 |
asciilifeform |
'successful' folx generally not 'followers' |
| 14:22 |
awt_akris |
generally are! |
| 14:23 |
PeterL |
could be useful to have a cadre of successful friends though |
| 14:24 |
asciilifeform |
which e.g. mp follower today seems notably 'successful' on acct of having been subj ? |
| 14:25 |
awt_akris |
Who knows. If smart, they wouldn't make a big deal about it. |
| 14:26 |
asciilifeform |
'who knows', for probative purposes, ~= nullset |
| 14:26 |
asciilifeform |
( tho entirely possible that e.g. kakobrekla (!) made bank, packed suitcase just in time ) |
| 14:27 |
awt_akris |
I'm certain mp is responsible for at least a few bitcoin millionaires. |
| 14:27 |
asciilifeform |
unless asciilifeform misunderstands above, there can be at most 22 'bitcoin millionaires' neh |
| 14:28 |
awt_akris |
em, millionaires in usd to be clear |
| 14:28 |
asciilifeform |
( and quite likely there are in fact none .. ) |
| 14:28 |
asciilifeform |
aa well that's not much to write home about is it |
| 14:29 |
awt_akris |
idk it's like top 1% of wealth depending on how many millions. |
| 14:30 |
asciilifeform |
naturally. but the bare categorical min. aint much to be excited over |
| 14:31 |
asciilifeform |
for ref, avg/med house in wash. dc costs 1mil+ (for 3-4 yrs nao) |
| 14:31 |
asciilifeform |
these folx, many of whom have garbage bag instead of 1+ window on their car, 'millionaires' technically. |
| 14:31 |
awt_akris |
In any case maybe nice to have a few financially independent frens who owe you or at least respect you. |
| 14:32 |
asciilifeform |
noshit. but nobody's getting there by subscribing to 'get rich mag' lol |
| 14:32 |
awt_akris |
not getting there via a corp either |
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| 14:32 |
* |
asciilifeform witnessed meatspace associates going down this toilet, repeatedly. otherwise quite intelligent folx, at that |
| 14:32 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: at least with wage work one not suffers the illusion that 'will get there' |
| 14:32 |
asciilifeform |
straightforward gulag |
| 14:34 |
awt_akris |
Is why they recommand not to quit "w2" until you have 2x "w2" earnings |
| 14:34 |
asciilifeform |
the 'get rich manuals' thing is insiduous. folx with healthy immune system tend to not even get near subj. but desperate middle aged d00dz , on repeated exposure, 'sink in', the way cancer patients sink into voodoo, for exact same reason |
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| 14:34 |
awt_akris |
also recommend to get "w2" in specific fields |
| 14:34 |
asciilifeform |
'there must be a way' 'there must be someone who will truly teach the way' etc |
| 14:37 |
awt_akris |
They discuss desperate middle aged d00dz a lot |
| 14:38 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: canhaz link/paste of 'best of' $author ? |
| 14:39 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. tate for instance was entertaining. asciilifeform in fact enjoyed reading his peacock nonsense. |
| 14:39 |
asciilifeform |
( unlike e.g. taleb, who a terminal snoar imho ) |
| 14:44 |
awt_akris |
If I find something that fits the bill at some point I will paste. At the moment nothing comes to mind. |
| 14:47 |
awt_akris |
I don't know what I'd do if you asked me to do the same for mp. Most would bounce off the first paragraph of anything he wrote. |
| 14:47 |
asciilifeform |
dunno, asciilifeform not bounced off. |
| 14:49 |
asciilifeform |
generally asciilifeform 'bounces off' when sees that $material 'compresses well', i.e. is ~identical to '100,000 other', like nigerian spamola |
| 14:49 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2013-11-09 asciilifeform: carried on a correspondence of sort with mp since writing a piece on his creation (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108) |
| 14:51 |
PeterL |
MP's "How to live to be rich" was pretty good, |
| 14:52 |
asciilifeform |
generally serious operators use 'list algo' as combinatorial bruteforce . ( to mp's credit, he did not ) |
| 14:53 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: his 'max out cc' + 'pick a developing country to your liking and go' thing was tiresome imho |
| 14:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-10-25 14:29:06 asciilifeform: ( see also mp's review of 'chump list' algo ) |
| 14:53 |
asciilifeform |
( incl. but not limited to the fact that himself did no such thing afaik ) |
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| 14:53 |
PeterL |
awt: are these guys set on the anymous thing, or is there a chance that they would see the benefits of a gpg identity? |
| 14:54 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: it's no accident that precisely 0 of these folx use pgp, imho |
| 14:54 |
PeterL |
I'm not saying I followed his recipe directly, but it was useful for rethinking the way I approached a budget |
| 14:54 |
asciilifeform |
( could've, since '94 ! but nope ) |
| 14:54 |
asciilifeform |
they want persistent identity & attributable authorship like dog wants beets |
| 14:54 |
PeterL |
maybe they just have not seen the light yet? |
| 14:54 |
awt_akris |
PeterL: wouldn't be surprised if they were aware of gpg, so probably intentionally not using it for whatever reason. |
| 15:00 |
* |
asciilifeform interest in tate-style ('i got rich with bit of lottery win + selling 'how to get rich!' to desperate & gullible') 'republics' strictly of the entomological variety |
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| 15:01 |
asciilifeform |
fwiw will note, folx who establish 2way contact with these, will be playing with active, rather than passive, adversary, receive well-crafted 'cold reading' and tailored pitches, and often enuff succumb to nonsense that they would've laffed off a decade earlier |
| 15:01 |
awt_akris |
asciilifeform: if you consider me desperate and gullible, then this is one of those things. otherwise not. |
| 15:01 |
asciilifeform |
hence insiduous. 'info hazard' |
| 15:02 |
asciilifeform |
awt_akris: asciilifeform not knows whether awt_akris has compromised immune system re subj, but thought oughta describe the condition & its symptoms, may conceivably prevent some infections. |
| 15:04 |
awt_akris |
lol desperate and gullible it is then |
| 15:04 |
asciilifeform |
( unlikely tho. the infecters have followers, incl. allegedly 'successful', slick marketing materials, and tantalizing promises. asciilifeform has nuffin but 'it's a trap, run'. not 'sexy' ) |
| 15:08 |
* |
asciilifeform ftr not 'rich' at all. but otoh lost 0 coin to date to scams, which afaik few 2010s participants can truthfully claim |
| 15:11 |
asciilifeform |
the 'algo' , such as it is, is very simple, and not needs multi-kB article. 'if loox too good to be tru, it is', 'look for where the fuckers demands yer money', etc. i.e. what yer grandfather prolly taught you. |
| 15:12 |
asciilifeform |
+ if sumbody purports to teach sumthing, see whether he shows any signs of having done any such thing himself |
| 15:13 |
asciilifeform |
( and whether $thing was a lottery play . look for the corpses of the other 99,999 folx who tried it... ) |
| 15:16 |
asciilifeform |
... and finally, look for the 0sum game being played, and consider, wai would $player tell you 'good moves' ? do you see 'blackrock', 'goldman', et al posting 'financial advice' for plebes? wainot |
| 15:16 |
asciilifeform |
( and when they do , because no longer fear prison -- does it turn out to be a++ advice 10+y after ? ) |
| 15:17 |
asciilifeform |
'free cheese is found in precisely 1 place -- mousetrap'(tm)(r)(ru) |
| 15:19 |
asciilifeform |
there are folx selling 'get rich'! boox, but no one afaik sells 'not go broke' boox, because a) unnecessary, erryone with '>roomtemp iq' already can write such book b) no one will buy it, 'not sexy', not promises 'change life!' and bankman lifestyle |
| |
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~ |
| 16:33 |
awt_akris |
asciilifeform: I will write up an article that rebuts your firehose of straw men for $300.00. |
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| 16:46 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
| 16:48 |
* |
asciilifeform not bent on somehow preventing the determined from pissing on hv fence, but could not in good conscience say nuffin either |
| 16:49 |
asciilifeform |
iirc e.g. mats went straight from mpex to ftx... |
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| 16:51 |
awt_akris |
asciilifeform: your mindset is paralyzing. akin to mp's terror of having kids. |
| 16:52 |
awt_akris |
make a fuckin' mistake once in a while |
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| |
~ 51 minutes ~ |
| 17:43 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030885 << politician also doesn't himself charge the front line with rifle, but doesn't mean it's a bad idea for him to recommend that those with nothing to lose and no prospects do so |
| 17:43 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 14:53:31 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost]: ( incl. but not limited to the fact that himself did no such thing afaik ) |
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| 17:45 |
billymg |
had mp had more reach and a million derps followed through converting their $5k - $20k credit limits to 1-address btc, might've had some impact |
| |
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| 17:48 |
billymg |
re: "making it" -- i don't understand the endless stream of online influencers peddling whatever scheme, i tend to agree with asciilifeform's assessment. to me it seems there are already over 9000 books on the subject available on lulazon or as warez, and reading the top 5 or so ought to cover ~everything worth saying on t |
| 17:49 |
billymg |
beyond that any time spent looking for gurus is time not spent working towards actually figuring it out for yourself |
| 17:53 |
awt_akris |
^ Aligns with Jungle messaging. |
| 17:56 |
billymg |
in that case good, but also seems like common sense |
| 18:03 |
awt_akris |
Offer above stands. Will do article summarizing > 1 year of "logs" for $300. |
| 18:05 |
billymg |
awt: of one of these "online republics"? i'll chip in $100 |
| 18:15 |
billymg |
honestly $300 seems like a good deal for a whole year's worth of logs summarized, anyone else chipping in? |
| |
~ 5 hours ~ |
| 23:16 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030864 << with building one, but I suppose you mean working for one. even in that case, go max out comp at e.g. goog for a 5-10y if that's the goal, and you will indeed make a few mil. |
| 23:16 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 14:32:32 awt_akris[signpost]: not getting there via a corp either |
| 23:16 |
signpost |
I for the record have nfi what's wrong with btc. still works fine. |
| 23:17 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030869 << dingding. |
| 23:17 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 14:34:30 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel]: the 'get rich manuals' thing is insiduous. folx with healthy immune system tend to not even get near subj. but desperate middle aged d00dz , on repeated exposure, 'sink in', the way cancer patients sink into voodoo, for exact same reason |
| 23:18 |
signpost |
"get rich" isn't a fucking thing. rob someone, or build a business, tertium... |
| 23:20 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030893 << richdadpoardad |
| 23:20 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 15:00:04 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: interest in tate-style ('i got rich with bit of lottery win + selling 'how to get rich!' to desperate & gullible') 'republics' strictly of the entomological variety |
| 23:21 |
* |
signpost did the last startup right after the 08 splat. ended up excellent timing. |
| 23:21 |
signpost |
next splat is now. go build something. |
| 23:23 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030908 << lol, reminds me of the vid of guy sending himself through a baler |
| 23:23 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 16:33:38 awt_akris[PeterL]: asciilifeform: I will write up an article that rebuts your firehose of straw men for $300.00. |
| 23:23 |
awt_akris |
Not sure where "get rich quick" is sold in anything I've mentioned. |
| 23:23 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030911 << ferfuxsake |
| 23:23 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 16:49:52 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: iirc e.g. mats went straight from mpex to ftx... |
| 23:24 |
signpost |
awt_akris: dear sir, it's an invitation to loudly hit me over the head with sense if'n you have some to dispense. |
| 23:24 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030913 << I'm on record firmly in favor of people being willing to bet. |
| |
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| 23:24 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 16:52:46 awt_akris[PeterL]: make a fuckin' mistake once in a while |
| 23:26 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030916 << yeah, at scale this would've been a positive act of financial violence. |
| 23:26 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 17:45:10 billymg: had mp had more reach and a million derps followed through converting their $5k - $20k credit limits to 1-address btc, might've had some impact |
| 23:34 |
signpost |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030835 << the interest on national debt is ~1T and climbing. they have no choice but to directly monetize debt going forward, which is a positive feedback loop of inflation. |
| 23:34 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2023-10-11 14:17:00 awt_akris[signpost]: For ex. if they said put 2 mn in treasuries at 5% if you meet x y z conditions, where's the 0 sum in that? |
| 23:34 |
signpost |
I would not buy a damned thing that is USD denominated. |
| 23:36 |
signpost |
also looks like we'll end up doing wartime BRRRRRR. |
| |
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