Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-05-16 | 2019-05-18 → ↓
02:52 feedbot http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/05/hopper-update-may-2019/ << lobbesblog -- Hopper Update: May 2019
~ 5 hours 11 minutes ~
08:04 stjohn_piano_2 turns out that for me fast real-time chat is still rather unaffordable at present. going forward, my replies will have significant latency.
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08:04 stjohn_piano_2 i'll go through some dropped references from yesterday:
08:05 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913698 << i also completely forgot that GPG encrypts to a subkey, not to the primary, so of course the key ID would be different.
08:05 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:11 stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: gpg --list-packets shows that the key ID is C8EFFF13 in the OTP file. The key ID of my public key is 5991 52AC. Is this expected? (the fingerprint shown by deedbot in the earlier line is correct, though).
08:09 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913740 << an error, which i will have to go and fix. checkpoint 8 has been held back from "published" status, because there is a little bitcoin in the address derived from the checkpoint.
08:09 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:20 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/checkpoint_8 << what;s this ?
08:10 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913779 << this should have been "decentralisation vs parsimony". the article in question is http://trilema.com/2015/that-scary-thing/
08:10 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:27 stjohn_piano_2: you wrote an article once about parsimony vs efficiency, i think.
08:12 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913810 << this is very true.
08:12 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:34 mp_en_viaje: all sorts of unexpected things improve productivity, and the thing with improved productivity is that it's a very hard exponential -- cutting yet another 1% dead weight produces massive gains because it lowers effort under pleasure threshold.
~ 16 minutes ~
08:29 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914338 -> how/why is that? at any rate, arond here it's more important that you *do* answer (i.e. don't just let stuff get lost) rather than "real-time"
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08:29 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 12:04 stjohn_piano_2: turns out that for me fast real-time chat is still rather unaffordable at present. going forward, my replies will have significant latency.
08:31 stjohn_piano_2 yum install qpdfview
08:31 stjohn_piano_2 woops. wrong window.
~ 20 minutes ~
08:51 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913854 << i've had a look through these.
08:51 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:46 asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: if you're a serious meat-ocr, asciilifeform has a tough cookie, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909563 , would defo pay for quality hand-entry of it
08:52 stjohn_piano_2 asciilifeform: what would the desired result look like?
08:54 stjohn_piano_2 example: 1) numbered image files containing schematics 2) text files containing transcribed text 3) notes files containing the text on the schematics, with a reference to the corresponding image file.
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08:58 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913861 << i was not contemplating doing the bulk of the typing myself. my preferred approach would be to find a russian speaker, get them to make a GPG key, do the bulk work, and send it to me for correction.
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08:58 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 asciilifeform: i dare say this is not the 1st line of work i'd picture a fella with broken hands going into..
08:58 stjohn_piano_2 i studied some russian once upon a time, i could almost certainly correct it, with a little practice.
09:00 stjohn_piano_2 re: broken hands. yes, i cannot sell sheer volume of typing, only reputable attention/focus/correction.
09:04 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913863 << makes sense.
09:04 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: rom all the pomp of "datafeed article 103," etc. it just clunks up your thought process. i know you don' tthink so, familiarity breeds a feeling of safety etc. but it's absolutely never worth it to have more shit than you need.
09:04 stjohn_piano_2 hm.
09:05 stjohn_piano_2 perhaps it's worth mentioning that, at every point when building edgecase, i asked myself "what should a reputable publishing system in the age of cryptography look like?".
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09:06 stjohn_piano_2 this led to: multi-author, every article is signed (optionally by the author as well), articles are in a linear order (hence "103"), unalterability means that additional authors can trust that the owner can't sabotage their work / code.
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09:07 stjohn_piano_2 i contemplated the possibility of 20-50 authors on edgecase. not people here now, who already have their own blogs, workers, etc, but new people, who perhaps don't want to run an entire blog, but would like to occasionally sign and publish their work.
09:10 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913866 << yes.
09:10 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: the other prong is that you don't actually have anything you can compete in. slave labour or no slave labour, she does it in five hours and you don't.
09:11 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913871 << have been pondering this question, and particularly the additional question "what answer would i like to be able to give in future?".
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09:11 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 17:49 mp_en_viaje: so, what are you realy good at ?
09:14 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913902 << if anyone is interested, i also worked through verifying the deed: http://edgecase.net/articles/verifying_a_signed_deed_of_the_gpg_1410_source_code
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09:14 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 18:01 stjohn_piano_2: my pgptron is gpg 1.4.10, compiled from mp's original source in deedbot.
09:15 diana_coman stjohn_piano_2: wot + causes vs purposes sound both like good (re)reads really.
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09:20 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914162 << i did not look at them in detail. i filed them under "investigate further when i buy one".
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09:20 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 20:12 diana_coman: btw re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914012 -> I'd have thought you'd go straight for asciilifeform's TRNG schematics then, at the very least?
09:21 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914167 << i have no doubt that there are interesting problems in eulora, else you and mircea popescu would not spend so much time on it. unfortunately, i have to prioritise looking for paid work / finding a job.
09:21 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 20:17 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: re programming otherwise, there's eulora with a shit-ton of interesting stuff to do but there like ~anywhere, it's always about digging deeper rather than looking wider as it were
09:23 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914325 << a distinction of sorts, i guess. "one body at a time, minefield is cleared".
09:23 a111 Logged on 2019-05-16 22:37 asciilifeform: afaik 1st fella to press ~this~ particular 'anykey' ..
09:24 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914348 << ah ok.
09:24 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 12:29 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914338 -> how/why is that? at any rate, arond here it's more important that you *do* answer (i.e. don't just let stuff get lost) rather than "real-time"
09:26 stjohn_piano_2 re how/why: due to rsi (repetitive strain injury), i currently run at 40-50% text production capacity, if i type slowly and steadily, with breaks. this is up from 0.1% capacity two years ago. trying to respond in real-time, as i did yesterday, is too high a rate for me to keep up.
09:27 stjohn_piano_2 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914372 << yes. i'll go do that.
09:27 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 13:15 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: wot + causes vs purposes sound both like good (re)reads really.
09:28 diana_coman stjohn_piano_2: where in the UK are you?
09:28 stjohn_piano_2 a small village near newmarket, in suffolk.
09:30 diana_coman ah, Cambridge-inflated area
09:32 stjohn_piano_2 yes
~ 57 minutes ~
10:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914356 << plz don't bother unless you have one lined up already; i will prolly do it with own hands sooner
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10:30 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 12:58 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913861 << i was not contemplating doing the bulk of the typing myself. my preferred approach would be to find a russian speaker, get them to make a GPG key, do the bulk work, and send it to me for correction.
10:32 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914373 << i thought it was obv from the www, but must note that fg was sold out year+ ago . at some point we'll make the third gen. board , but not any time soon. danielpbarron however has a dealership and iirc still has a few in stock.
10:32 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 13:20 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914162 << i did not look at them in detail. i filed them under "investigate further when i buy one".
10:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914355 << schematics + text in e.g. svg vector graphic.
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10:33 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 12:54 stjohn_piano_2: example: 1) numbered image files containing schematics 2) text files containing transcribed text 3) notes files containing the text on the schematics, with a reference to the corresponding image file.
10:33 asciilifeform no bitmaps.
10:35 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914368 << consider ada. ( ffa series imho makes a decent ada tutorial, and so does diana_coman's series )
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10:35 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 13:11 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913871 << have been pondering this question, and particularly the additional question "what answer would i like to be able to give in future?".
10:41 diana_coman I guess part of his problem is being in the UK+cambridge area really - prices&salaries are so inflated that he probably needs a salt-mine-irl place just to make ends meat and that makes it then very hard to have any time/brain left to actually do the meaningful learning he still has to do
10:42 asciilifeform diana_coman: it aint impossible, e.g. asciilifeform manages.
10:42 asciilifeform ( afaik similar level of inflatola here )
10:42 diana_coman stjohn_piano_2: are you actually tied to the UK? and anyway, what sort of job/where are you looking for one?
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10:43 diana_coman asciilifeform: for one thing you already have skills he doesn't yet seem to have and for the other thing you constantly say it yourself that at times there is no juice left for ffa /similar.
10:43 diana_coman but sure, not saying it's impossible, no.
10:45 asciilifeform diana_coman: imho it is achievable objective, re salt mines, to have ~some~ juice remaining ~sometimes~ .
10:47 asciilifeform ( even auschwitz had an orchestra... )
10:47 diana_coman sure; onth look at the rather long-list of people that seemed to manage to do it for a while but only for a while.
10:47 asciilifeform yea i suspect e.g. Mocky currently in 1 without an orchestra..
10:49 asciilifeform fwiw stjohn_piano_2 , unlike many prev. noobs, seems to have the virtue of patience.
10:50 diana_coman moreover, while it is doable (like ~anything else really), it's hard to really see the reason to *choose* to do it when one hasn't yet been sucked into it ; and stjohn_piano_2 strikes me as trying to NOT get sucked into it.
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10:50 asciilifeform right
10:54 feedbot http://qntra.net/2019/05/another-cisco-road-to-root-found-in-the-wild-while-anti-huawei-executive-order-published-in-us/ << Qntra -- Another Cisco Road To Root Found In The Wild While Anti-Huawei Executive Order Published In US
~ 1 hours 48 minutes ~
12:42 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914363 << if you haven't already read, you may be interested in ben_vulpes' classic likbez on v
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12:42 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 13:05 stjohn_piano_2: perhaps it's worth mentioning that, at every point when building edgecase, i asked myself "what should a reputable publishing system in the age of cryptography look like?".
12:43 lobbes also, welcome! may your studies be fruitful
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~ 27 minutes ~
13:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914364 << this is quite similar to the direct ancestor of v , jurov's trb mailing list system .
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13:10 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 13:06 stjohn_piano_2: this led to: multi-author, every article is signed (optionally by the author as well), articles are in a linear order (hence "103"), unalterability means that additional authors can trust that the owner can't sabotage their work / code.
13:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914370 << pretty great piece. hand-cranked verification of mp's gpg1.4.10 tarball deed .
13:14 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 13:14 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913902 << if anyone is interested, i also worked through verifying the deed: http://edgecase.net/articles/verifying_a_signed_deed_of_the_gpg_1410_source_code
13:15 asciilifeform sept. 25 , '18 .
13:16 asciilifeform fella defo lurked for a good while, and attentively.
13:19 asciilifeform http://edgecase.net/articles/ << lotsa classic eng. lit of various vintages, transcribed, in there.
13:20 * asciilifeform will take closer look at ^above when hands less full
13:21 asciilifeform http://edgecase.net/articles/how_i_bought_and_stored_some_bitcoin << also notbad, his walletron alluded to in prev thrd.
13:22 asciilifeform 'Roll the five dice ten times on a flat, even surface, writing down...'
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~ 17 minutes ~
13:39 whaack http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-13#1913067 << I am considering making a trip down to Uruguay some time in October. By that time I should have some fiat saved up to live frugally for a ~year, and I'll be done with current work/family obligations.
13:39 a111 Logged on 2019-05-13 18:34 BingoBoingo: lobbes: Well, if you want beaches November to Early December is the time. Late January on into the summer heat makes the cyanobacteria bloom. Late December to Mid January is the tourist high season.
13:41 whaack But I’m not quite sure what I should do with my life. I am considering one of the following: staying in NYC and getting a “linkedin” job for 1-2 years, creating a base in some cheap rural surf part of CR, or moving to a Spanish speaking city.
13:47 whaack I would greatly appreciate the advice of the republic in these matters. I'm 25 and my main priorities are to fix my ESLness through learning Spanish and to have time to get myself an _actual_ cs education.
13:47 asciilifeform whaack: in your position, i'd focus on getting out of reich 1st; can 'book larnin'' 2nd.
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13:48 asciilifeform the longer yer in, the harder to break out
13:50 asciilifeform and best way to learn lang, is to live & conduct biz where people speak it, this is gold standard for subj
13:54 asciilifeform 'cs education' is, believe, 9000x easier, than to try an' escape reich as old man
~ 15 minutes ~
14:10 whaack alright ty. I will drop the nyc linkedin plan then, and consider ditching my obligations in order to leave even sooner. related to cs I'm chewing through SICP, just published http://ztkfg.com/2019/05/sicp-21-solutions-introduction-to-data-abstraction/ and should be done with 2.2 exercises shortly. If i'm off course with my priorities on this front plz let me know
14:12 asciilifeform whaack: if yer making piles and piles o'dough in reich, and ~very~ disciplined, it can theoretically be a thing to do, save it up an' buy a block of flats in BingoBoingostan or similar. but i hesitate to recommend to anyone to sit in reich a single day longer than can be helped
14:13 asciilifeform it rots people from inside.
14:15 asciilifeform mp described in detail this subj, better than i could ever hope to
14:29 BingoBoingo whaack: I'd recommend if you come to Uruguay you don't spend the whole year test driving the country without a solid job offer when there's other parts of LATAM to explore.
14:34 BingoBoingo But if you are mining LinkedIn et al for jobs, it probably wouldn't hurt to look down here.
~ 21 minutes ~
14:56 BingoBoingo The surf part of Uruguay is out east
15:03 whaack I wasn't implying that I would test drive Uruguay for a year. I would try it for 1-2 months first of course.
15:05 BingoBoingo Ah. Anyways, I know a good hostel, which in Uruguay still means you'll be in a foreign language space most of the time.
~ 1 hours 46 minutes ~
16:51 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914423 << i don't get it, what's inclined, bumpy surface gonna do ?
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16:51 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 17:22 asciilifeform: 'Roll the five dice ten times on a flat, even surface, writing down...'
16:56 mp_en_viaje whaack: alright ty. I will drop the nyc linkedin plan then << nyc is a terrible place to stay in any case. if you're not making bank on wallstreet, you have no excuse to be there ; and even then, it's an excuse. if you're gonna linkedin, do a basic "what job pays - what single family ~house~ costs to buy in location.". if job doesn't pay over what loan would cost you, it is not a job, whatever they call it.
17:01 mp_en_viaje eg, https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5034-64th-St_Woodside_NY_11377_M30426-76388?view=qv vs https://www.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=22d3d5270a545891&fccid=c1a7c6d77658a22d&vjs=3 ;
17:04 mp_en_viaje you then put the 898`00 into http://www.interest.com/mortgage/calculators/mortgage-calculator/ to find out that over 10 years fixed 5% interest rate you have to pay 9,524.68 monthly (funny how they quote the rates in monthly and the salaries in yeary, huh), which comes to 114296.16, which is 14701.16 a year MORE than what the Representative of the Director General to the United Nations, who provides leadership and professional d
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17:04 mp_en_viaje irection to the staff and operations blablabla makes.
17:04 mp_en_viaje therefore such a person can't afford to live in queens.
17:04 mp_en_viaje whatever, woodside.
17:05 mp_en_viaje by following this procedure you ~might~ find some combination that works ; but by not following this procedure all you'll find is alf's rut.
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17:14 * mp_en_viaje always suspected they teach these things in hs ; but never actually checked.
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
18:19 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: guess what else they taught in ameri-hs (e.g. 'if you put in 100 $ , yr later can have 105' , and other meanwhile-retracted 'communism by 1980' promiseisms )
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18:22 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914445 << pretty lulzy detail in there : >> 'a tax-free annual net base salary' . wonder how this worx.
18:22 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 21:04 mp_en_viaje: you then put the 898`00 into http://www.interest.com/mortgage/calculators/mortgage-calculator/ to find out that over 10 years fixed 5% interest rate you have to pay 9,524.68 monthly (funny how they quote the rates in monthly and the salaries in yeary, huh), which comes to 114296.16, which is 14701.16 a year MORE than what the Representative of the Director General to the United Nations, who provides leadership and professional d
18:24 asciilifeform incidentally fwiw the shack asciilifeform lives in , would cost ~2y of his pay to buy. but i ~dun want~ to buy it, why would i want to buy a decaying cardboard-an'-siding thing.
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18:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914449 << i know a whole platoon of folx , in meatspace, in deeper holes ( e.g. mortgageisms, alimonies, childrenz, 'student loans', drink. ) but there is ~always~ somewhere a deeper hole to be found than whichever .
18:27 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 21:05 mp_en_viaje: by following this procedure you ~might~ find some combination that works ; but by not following this procedure all you'll find is alf's rut.
18:30 asciilifeform i imagine all of the holes look quite similar from mp_en_viaje's olympus tho -- sorta like stones on the ground, mountains to ant, all look ~same from man's height
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18:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914441 << this is good q imho. the only reason i can think of for 'throw dice on flat table', is to avoid 'came to rest sharp edge up', which can introduce 'must either throw again, or pick between numbers by hand ' etc
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18:33 a111 Logged on 2019-05-17 20:51 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914423 << i don't get it, what's inclined, bumpy surface gonna do ?
~ 44 minutes ~
19:17 trinque whaack: more important than where you haul your ass is what you're going to do when you get there.
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19:17 trinque republic is scant of profit centers
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19:18 trinque I could e.g. make deedbot wallet exorbitant for friends, and all this would gain me is beer money and fewer friends.
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~ 17 minutes ~
19:36 feedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3256 << Loper OS -- 25 Years of Loud, Expensive Space Heaters.
~ 47 minutes ~
20:23 asciilifeform trinque: i once attended a gathering of 'writers'. one unusually introspective type uttered phrase 'do you all understand that we're competing for each other's beer money'
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20:25 asciilifeform verily it sounds as nutty as it was, but they were hoping to, believe or not, 'live off writing books'. in usa, no less.
20:26 asciilifeform ( i've met 'fresh off the boat' 'was physicist, now cabbie' emigres, who suffered from this delusion. but ~these~ were not emigres... )
20:41 asciilifeform see also e.g.
20:41 a111 Logged on 2018-09-08 15:52 asciilifeform: paulgraham -- before turning into the infamous huckster -- had a piece where 'which biznis should you get into if you LUVV gardening?' '...recovering data from damaged hard disks!'
20:46 mod6 Evenin'. I've built trb on cuntoo with ave1's 20180924 tools, with rotor only. Quick test shows pulls connects, pulls blocks.
20:47 asciilifeform mod6: plox to detail ( e.g. if on musltronic cuntoo, why needs 'rotor' system ? it existed only to build musltronic gcc 1st, and ~then~ trb, on heathen envirs , recall )
20:48 asciilifeform ( ... or didja substitute ave1's for rotor's ..? )
20:48 mod6 I used diana_coman's vtron build with the same. Pressed the (yet unverified by lord keccak vpatch bundle that I created in January) keccak tree, made the changes in the makefiles, etc. Have a vpatch.
20:49 asciilifeform mod6: this part makes sense. but i'm curious re the apparently redundant piece
20:49 asciilifeform ( or do i misread ? )
20:50 asciilifeform cuntoo, per my current understanding, obsoletes 'rotor' entirely (by doing same thing to ~entire system~ right off the bat)
20:50 mod6 I ran into some trouble with BDB along the way because of a relocation record. '.rodata.values.2406'
20:51 asciilifeform interesting : this happens on ave1's gcc, but not orig rotor's ?!
20:51 mod6 So I ended up adding '--disable-shared' to the BDB Makefile portion.
20:51 mod6 That seemed to resolve the problem. Let me do a wotpaste of the vpatch so you can see what I've done.
20:52 asciilifeform mod6: 1st pleez say, under which gcc you get this, and under which -- not
20:53 mod6 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/olwpU/?raw=true
20:55 asciilifeform mod6: i see what you did, but under which gcc got the eggog ??
20:55 mod6 asciilifeform: I changed all of the CC, CXX, LD to point at all of the binaries located in the tarball I extracted from the build of Ave1's GNAT, like this one: /opt/20180924/x86_64-linux-musl-native/bin/gcc
20:55 asciilifeform i may be thick, but it is not evident from the patch
20:55 asciilifeform aa
20:56 asciilifeform interesting, apparently ave1's demands 'disable-shared' in some yet-unknown case, to actually build static cppism
20:57 mod6 it does seem that way, ya.
20:57 asciilifeform ( previously thought that it ~always~ builds statics )
20:57 asciilifeform at least seems to be the case for ada projs.
20:58 mod6 I've taken notes, I'll write up something on my blog as soon as I can. Just wanted to share the progress here. Obv. bunch more testing, etc.
20:59 asciilifeform pretty substantial find, mod6 . ty for documenting.
20:59 mod6 I hope I'm not doing anything redundant really. The Makefiles itself take care of the compilation of Boost/BDB/OpenSSL. The one thing that I still need from the rotor.tar.gz is 'openssl-004-musl-termios.patch'
21:00 mod6 Otherwise, the 'rotor.sh' and 'rotor_bitcoin_only.sh' are not actually utilized. So we could cut those loose too, if desired.
21:00 asciilifeform it makes sense now, you kept only skeleton from 'rotor'.
21:00 mod6 *nod*
21:02 mod6 Anyway, I'm gonna grab some food here. I'll work on a write up this weekend among other things. o7
21:02 trinque I'd love to see a trb ebuild come of this mod6
21:02 asciilifeform ^
21:02 mod6 trinque: We'll get there.
21:03 mod6 Thanks gentlemen. bbs.
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