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search trilema search all chans

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00:00	mircea_popescu	the irony here being that women do not in fact object to being quite literally enslaved,
00:00	mircea_popescu	but they do prefer an actual man.
00:00	Shakespeare	indeed
00:00	mircea_popescu	and the supply of actual men is so tight... so, so tight...
00:01	Shakespeare	well morals and community and etc all serve to pervert this
00:01	asciilifeform	'drive nature out with pitchfork...'
00:02	Shakespeare	ignorance is truly bliss
00:06	dexX7	;;tslb
00:06	gribble	Time since last block: 11 minutes and 54 seconds
00:08	BingoBoingo	;;lasers
00:08	gribble	┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
00:08	asciilifeform	;;synchrophasotron
00:08	gribble	Error: "synchrophasotron" is not a valid command.
00:08	asciilifeform	damn.
00:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43554 @ 0.00080426 = 35.0287 BTC [+] {2}
00:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07326103 = 0.2198 BTC [+]
00:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00080381 = 12.3787 BTC [-]
00:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.0008047 = 12.9154 BTC [+]
00:18	mircea_popescu	what is with this 80-88 vibration
00:18	Chris_Sabian	huh?
00:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-]
00:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.053002 = 0.106 BTC [-]
00:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40820 @ 0.00080092 = 32.6936 BTC [-] {3}
00:24	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9882 @ 0.00079933 = 7.899 BTC [-]
00:30	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Maybe someone is playing with themselves and hoping to trap someone when they break pattern?
00:35	mircea_popescu	must be
00:44	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00079924 = 29.2921 BTC [-]
00:45	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5775230#msg5775230
00:45	ozbot	Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
00:45	mircea_popescu	check out all teh butthurt lmao
00:46	mircea_popescu	"o i had imagined i am important whai is it the case nobody cares"
00:47	mircea_popescu	.d
00:47	ozbot	4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1066 blocks | Estimated Change: 7.9920% in 6d 19h 26m 23s
00:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00079852 = 13.2554 BTC [-]
00:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.NSA] 4000 @ 0.0001 = 0.4 BTC [-]
00:54	BingoBoingo	All this butthurt over the fact they couldn't identify operators willing to continue indefinitely instead of collapsing at the first sign of opposition
00:55	mircea_popescu	this particular guy seems more like the armchair general type.
00:55	mircea_popescu	the sort that figures that by spending an inordinate amount of time derping on the internet he has now amassed credibility and importance and should be taken seriously.
00:56	BingoBoingo	Well their derping in other of your PR's threads supports that
00:56	mircea_popescu	sort-of like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time adding code on github they are now decident factors in the future of the world,
00:56	mircea_popescu	just like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time editing wikipedia they are now qualified to whatever, direct research spending i guess.
00:57	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39093 @ 0.00080439 = 31.446 BTC [+] {5}
00:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.01690824 = 0.1014 BTC [+] {2}
00:57	mircea_popescu	"The worship appears mutual, and watching Wetern media worship a bunch of nobodys whose idea of public art is going into supermarkets and stuffing frozen chickens in their vaginas (“Pussy Riot,” that is) provides much-needed comic relief."
00:57	mircea_popescu	o what is this, disparaging vagina stuffing ?
00:58	mircea_popescu	such codgerism.
00:59	BingoBoingo	Sentence seems like someone who probably was just weeks ago glorifying the extremes of human performance on display at the olympics. Why the double standard for vaginal performance?
01:00	mircea_popescu	in general because old men fear shameless hussies as the likely agents of young alpha males, which is how you say "evil" for old people.
01:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MG] 5680 @ 0.00010001 = 0.5681 BTC [-]
01:07	BingoBoingo	I wonder how many of the Old GLBSE tards are familiar with this latest SEC email exchange? How hurt are the butts that saw Nefario just up and quit?
01:09	mircea_popescu	maybe do a poll ?
01:09	mircea_popescu	most of them are gone anyway.
01:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 733 @ 0.00080533 = 0.5903 BTC [+]
01:10	BingoBoingo	I wonder if there is a way to get the reaction from those exchange shareholder on welfare. If only there were a log like that of their reactions to be leaked.
01:11	mircea_popescu	i suppose if you're very bored you can hunt them all down and ask them, either on irc, via forum pms or w/e.
01:11	mircea_popescu	should make for an interesting collection.
01:12	mircea_popescu	this is what reporting is made out of, after all. burning the shoe rubber all day.
01:13	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.0301 = 0.7525 BTC [-] {2}
01:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 567 @ 0.00080598 = 0.457 BTC [+] {2}
01:17	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 17 @ 0.03001224 = 0.5102 BTC [-] {2}
01:18	dexX7	https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*A_V4-l0Loh6CFbHyM5Qg5A.jpeg
01:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.02996344 = 0.4495 BTC [-] {2}
01:20	bitcoinpete	allo
01:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00082313 = 0.1235 BTC [-] {3}
01:34	chetty	recall the talk about pilots and lasers? check this out
01:34	chetty	http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/18/airplane-pilots-hit-by-nearly-blinding-glare-from-massive-calif-solar-facility/
01:34	ozbot	Pilots hit by 'nearly blinding' glare from solar facility | The Daily Caller
01:39	benkay	o hey high albedo shit is high albedo
01:39	benkay	WHADDAYA KNOW
01:39	benkay	well, reflective at certain angles
01:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00080598 = 26.7585 BTC [+]
01:40	benkay	dexX7: where'd you get that? it's excellent.
01:40	dexX7	reddit :)
01:41	punkman	here you go http://amultiverse.com/comic/2014/03/12/a-question-of-beef/
01:44	benkay	oh hey bitcoin payments for comics
01:44	benkay	their authors generate epic backlogs of work (some of them) and the fans are slavish fans who will pay for anything
01:45	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35336 @ 0.00080217 = 28.3455 BTC [-] {2}
01:45	benkay	i'm kinda amazed that Scenes from a Multiverse doesn't have a first button
01:46	punkman	wonder how these monthly subscriptions hold up, http://www.patreon.com/jonrosenberg
01:47	benkay	oh wait Shakespeare see above
01:47	benkay	no. credits
01:47	benkay	.
01:48	benkay	mireca_popescu already figured out out to monetize backlogs of content.
01:48	benkay	just...imitate those who get it?
01:49	LordPutin	anyone ableto log into the blockchain wallet atm?
01:50	benkay	LordPutin: have you tried hedging your losses on bitbet?
01:50	benkay	you might be able to troll the blockchain.info operators into putting 100B on "we totes have your butts"
02:00	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00080012 = 16.0824 BTC [-]
02:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1300 @ 0.0043276 = 5.6259 BTC [+] {6}
02:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00079961 = 33.9035 BTC [-] {2}
02:07	bitcoinpete	"Blockchain’s design is based on the principle of giving users 100% control of their funds. We don’t hold your keys and we don’t hold you hostage. You are your own bank." via https://blog.blockchain.com/2014/03/18/blockchain-services-fully-restored/
02:07	LordPutin	oh crap
02:07	bitcoinpete	written an hour ago. and they're down again.
02:07	LordPutin	i haven't had to enter mypassword in over a year
02:08	LordPutin	justbeen using it on the app and it keeps asking me to enter password
02:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05421217 = 0.1084 BTC [+] {2}
02:14	*	moiety retreats to -assets for safety
02:14	moiety	http://www.coinion.com/2014/02/21/mtgox-drop-bitcoin-start-trading-game-cards/
02:16	moiety	o i thought that was way more recent //scrap
02:16	bitcoinpete	lordputin: did you set up email back-ups? either way, bc.info will be back eventually and then you can move 99% of those coins somewhere safer. http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/on-making-high-entropy-bitcoin-paper-wallets/
02:17	benkay	hey moiety troll all the freaked out webwallet users with me
02:17	LordPutin	but what if i dont remember the password?
02:17	LordPutin	am i fucked
02:18	moiety	hey benkay ^^
02:18	benkay	probly purt darn near
02:18	benkay	so bitcoinpete what's your background?
02:19	moiety	LordPutin: kinda fucked until site is up anyways
02:19	bitcoinpete	benkay: where does one start?
02:19	LordPutin	so when website is up can i reset my password?
02:19	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05429429 = 0.1629 BTC [+] {3}
02:19	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-] {2}
02:20	moiety	with magic cards, more than likely
02:20	benkay	ah goodness you're a lifeboat guy
02:20	benkay	do you know mardlin?
02:21	benkay	ah its neat to see lifeboat folks in here
02:21	moiety	http://satoshibox.com/52b22c414c347b88810041a7 or do similar to this
02:21	ozbot	Bitcoin Wallet.dat with 629.56 BTC but i lost my 4 Digit password
02:21	chetty	why does anyone use webwallets ? I really am curious
02:21	benkay	the BSc in Immunology might not be a bad place to start, bitcoinpete
02:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25367 @ 0.00079831 = 20.2507 BTC [-] {2}
02:21	benkay	chetty: convenience and idiocy?
02:22	benkay	baha moiety
02:22	chetty	idiocy I get but convenience? like eating fast food?
02:22	moiety	well ours just got entirely fucked over but we had half site funds in cold storage
02:23	moiety	hence no moiety for couple days
02:23	benkay	ah that's where you've been. too bad to hear, moiety. what happened?
02:23	benkay	chetty: mcdonald's is delicious if you've never had a hamburger.
02:24	moiety	someone found an exploit and abused the fuck out of it. they actually were honest and paid back but someone else witnessed it and weren't so honest. generated a huge fake balance which they tipped out. emptying our wallet.
02:24	moiety	leaving me with a total shit storm to deal with
02:24	benkay	o yikes.
02:24	moiety	\o/
02:25	benkay	total losses, moiety?
02:26	moiety	over 100k
02:27	moiety	recovered a fair bit though :)
02:27	moiety	epic dev work
02:27	chetty	ouch
02:27	moiety	not btc!!! << play money as mircea woould say :P
02:28	benkay	yeah my eyes widened slightly for a second before reason kicked in
02:28	benkay	;;calc 100000*123
02:28	gribble	12300000
02:28	moiety	would never keep 100k+btc in hot
02:29	moiety	people are pricks seriously
02:30	benkay	ya
02:30	benkay	soft underbelly etc
02:31	moiety	present company excluded obvs
02:31	moiety	how have you guys been. yesterdays loges made me laugh
02:31	moiety	some people just dont give up huh?!
02:31	moiety	logs**
02:31	benkay	voof
02:32	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6514 @ 0.00080062 = 5.2152 BTC [+]
02:32	benkay	honestly rather glad i was traveling.
02:32	moiety	lol joe you stay away from my wallet with that name XD
02:32	moiety	benkay: anywhere nice?
02:33	benkay	the place is kinda fascinating
02:34	benkay	in a 'wheels come off society everything headed for oblivion and everyone singing blithely' sort of way
02:35	benkay	it's just not polite to say to the babe's family that their part of the world will be delivered unto the ocean along with them and all of their systems of belief and we'll all be much better for it.
02:36	benkay	theme park for nominally adult people.
02:36	benkay	and we didn't even make it to disneyland!
02:36	moiety	lolol
02:37	benkay	night moiety
02:37	moiety	and err youre right, i'd keep that to yourself re the 'rents XD
02:37	bitcoinpete	benkay: well, in a nutshell, those were the dreams-of-smed-school days, a dream resolved by B- grades and a lot of poker. after undergrad, this being alberta, i spent a year selling trucks and started blogging. after selling truck got boring, i did an after-degree in environmental health and spent 2.5 years working as a public health inspector with the province. then…bitcoin. always had an interest in tech, investing,
02:37	moiety	nanight benkay :) sleep well
02:37	bitcoinpete	philosophy, history. this clicked like nothing else. spent the last year trying to find my bearings. so here we are… blogging about mp's travails and waltzing across logs à la https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upsZZ2s3xv8
02:37	benkay	oh there's the pete
02:37	bitcoinpete	benkay: haha ya...
02:37	benkay	i was just headed out, figured i'd spooked ya ;)
02:38	antephialtic	mircea_popescu: I assume you are aware that Romania has a MLA treaty with the US
02:38	bitcoinpete	i had to hone my message, is all. still a lazy effort but alas
02:38	joecruel	antephialtic: i assume you are aware mircea is not currently in the channel
02:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62896897 = 1.2579 BTC [+]
02:39	antephialtic	joecruel: indeed.
02:39	bitcoinpete	benkay: it'll be your turn next time :)
02:39	moiety	gribbling ftw
02:40	joecruel	antephialtic: !later tell
02:40	joecruel	er ;; is the trigger in here
02:40	antephialtic	thanks
02:41	moiety	i have to ask every time which way round it goes lol
02:41	benkay	bitcoinpete: you're likely in a better position to more thoroughly dox me than mp already has
02:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 900 @ 0.00082311 = 0.7408 BTC [-] {4}
02:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00419804 = 2.099 BTC [-] {3}
02:42	benkay	anyways, cheerio
02:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.05300002 = 0.424 BTC [-] {2}
		~ 18 minutes ~
03:07	bitcoinpete	BingoBoingo: thanks for fixing that link
03:08	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: You're welcome.
03:09	dhenson	lol @ MP's exchange with the SEC.
03:09	dhenson	Hornets nest, meet stick.
03:11	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.06882051 = 0.8258 BTC [+] {10}
03:11	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05316725 = 0.1595 BTC [+] {2}
03:15	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1674 @ 0.00015915 = 0.2664 BTC [-] {2}
03:15	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 87 @ 0.00197917 = 0.1722 BTC [+]
03:17	moiety	BB!
03:18	moiety	how are you?
		~ 23 minutes ~
03:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61002 BTC [-]
03:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.00080532 = 26.5756 BTC [+] {2}
03:53	antephialtic	dhenson: I'm worried for MP. Romania has a MLAT with the US. They can request romanian gov to compel MP to produce MPEx records
03:55	chetty	the title got me:
03:55	chetty	http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/03/18/bitbeat-bitcoin-gets-shakespearean/
03:55	ozbot	BitBeat: Bitcoin Gets Shakespearean - MoneyBeat - WSJ
03:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00432793 = 0.2986 BTC [-] {4}
03:58	chetty	Bitcoiners are none too pleased with Warren Buffett, and one acolyte is putting his bitcoin where his mouth is.
03:59	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1916 @ 0.00080598 = 1.5443 BTC [+]
04:00	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6465 @ 0.00080685 = 5.2163 BTC [+]
		~ 15 minutes ~
04:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00080429 = 12.2654 BTC [-]
04:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9066 @ 0.00080685 = 7.3149 BTC [+]
04:31	Angusm3	anyone selling 0.1 bitcoin?
04:33	Angusm3	I'm buying 0.1 bitcoin for $65 CAD
04:34	KRS-1	Hey check it out Angusm3
04:34	KRS-1	.bait
04:34	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9pe0IHB81qd819oo1_1280.jpg
04:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000001 = 0.35 BTC [-]
04:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10638 @ 0.00080685 = 8.5833 BTC [+]
04:45	kakobrekla	kako
04:45	kakobrekla	ah
04:45	kakobrekla	thats me.
04:46	dub	drop a sockie? :)
04:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26483 @ 0.00080425 = 21.299 BTC [-] {2}
04:51	moiety	i thought i'd fallen into otc for a minute
04:53	kakobrekla	naw, i grep chan for mentions who rang
04:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00080685 = 11.1749 BTC [+]
05:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47014 @ 0.00080288 = 37.7466 BTC [-] {2}
05:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1498 @ 0.00015996 = 0.2396 BTC [+]
05:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2820 @ 0.00015999 = 0.4512 BTC [+] {3}
05:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62 BTC [+]
05:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32050 @ 0.00080713 = 25.8685 BTC [+] {3}
05:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00080865 = 24.1382 BTC [+] {3}
05:19	Radi777	damn that girl wooo
05:28	KRS-1	.bait
05:28	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lja4483cgh1qhad33o1_1280.jpg
05:28	KRS-1	gross too manish for me
05:28	KRS-1	thats like a dude with boobs.
		~ 32 minutes ~
06:01	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05260503 = 0.1052 BTC [-] {2}
06:01	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06775 = 0.1355 BTC [-] {2}
06:01	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-] {2}
		~ 29 minutes ~
06:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31950 @ 0.00081001 = 25.8798 BTC [+] {2}
06:44	frenchie	nice talk with the sec
06:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00080906 = 9.2637 BTC [-]
06:52	HeySteve	uncompromising yet polite
06:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61001 BTC [-]
06:59	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.61 = 2.44 BTC [-]
07:01	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.6022004 = 6.022 BTC [-] {6}
		~ 25 minutes ~
07:27	LordPutin	i hope mp doesn't snitch on all of us to sec, i'm scared
07:30	HeySteve	SEC seems pretty toothless to rein in Wall Street
07:30	HeySteve	Chilton said as much
07:30	HeySteve	not sure they'll have much better luck with Bitcoin
07:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00081038 = 30.2677 BTC [+]
07:31	Apocalyptic	so some LordPutin is afraid of the SEC ?
07:32	Apocalyptic	sounds unlikely
07:32	LordPutin	they havea file on you as well dood
07:32	LordPutin	aren't you a bit scared?
07:32	Apocalyptic	totallt
07:32	Apocalyptic	*totally
07:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11067 @ 0.00081038 = 8.9685 BTC [+]
07:39	chetty	it just makes your irs file fatter
07:40	mircea_popescu	.d
07:40	ozbot	4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1010 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.2675% in 6d 8h 39m 28s
07:40	mircea_popescu	it is simply not belivable how tight these bets get.
07:42	only	wisdom of the crowd in action?
07:44	mircea_popescu	i see no other explanation.
07:46	mircea_popescu	"all the humanistic victories of Soviet socialism" oh save me rwanda. asciilifeform what the fuck is the gent on about.
07:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00432959 = 0.8659 BTC [+] {2}
07:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 828 @ 0.00432968 = 3.585 BTC [+] {2}
07:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 135 @ 0.00432982 = 0.5845 BTC [+] {3}
07:53	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 190 @ 0.00435 = 0.8265 BTC [+]
07:53	Izzy_	hello pa
07:54	Izzy_	rty people
07:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 395 @ 0.00438211 = 1.7309 BTC [+] {5}
07:57	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00081045 = 24.2325 BTC [+] {2}
07:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00439999 = 0.484 BTC [+]
07:59	mircea_popescu	hi.
08:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.02566335 = 0.7956 BTC [-] {6}
08:19	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14244 @ 0.00081072 = 11.5479 BTC [+] {2}
08:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 632 @ 0.00015998 = 0.1011 BTC [-]
08:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0008107 = 17.5922 BTC [-] {2}
08:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.00596453 = 0.4473 BTC [-] {5}
08:49	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52518 @ 0.00081104 = 42.5942 BTC [+] {2}
08:49	thestringpuller	;;calc (0.00082 - 0.00080328) / 0.00082
08:49	gribble	0.0203902439024
09:03	Duffer1	https://www.kncminer.com/products/titan
09:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98850 @ 0.00081128 = 80.195 BTC [+] {3}
09:11	davout	x.eur wai u no volume?
09:12	mircea_popescu	davout tiny walls and erratic supply.
09:12	davout	mircea_popescu: tiny walls shouldn't really matter since if you place an order the mm bot will now trade against it
09:13	mircea_popescu	well how'd people know abotu this ?
09:13	davout	you'll get filled in bits of whatever its order size currently is
09:13	mircea_popescu	basically, sucess of a product - any product - is built out of predictable, dependable supply of good quality and some advertising.
09:14	mircea_popescu	which of the two have you been doing ?
09:14	davout	well, i'm now done with the former and getting busy with the latter right now
09:14	mircea_popescu	then ask again in a week or w/e :D
09:15	davout	two weeks, no volume, the mm must be running
09:18	mircea_popescu	$vwap x.eur
09:18	mpexbot	mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 0.00212399 high: 0.00213452 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2081 btc: 4.42002826 30 day: average: 0.0020996 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7008 btc: 14.71400992
09:20	davout	let's see how this plays out
09:21	davout	basically my point is that the mm algo is now what i imagined it to be initially, so that it should work as everyone expects it
09:24	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00080917 = 31.8408 BTC [-] {2}
09:27	ninjashogun	hi - are you around, mircea_popescu?
09:32	mircea_popescu	davout cool beans.
09:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.00417098 = 0.8467 BTC [-] {4}
09:36	nubbins`	huh, a guy from -otc has apparently been asked to appear on one of those pawn shop reality tv shows with his casascius coins
09:37	BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Is that -otc guy you?
09:37	Neil	mircea_popescu> Neil wanna bet on that ? << Time lapse, no idea what you're referring to.
09:37	nubbins`	nah
09:37	nubbins`	some guy i've sold a bunch to
09:37	mircea_popescu	Neil something you said about no more diff jumps over 20%
09:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00417041 = 0.3336 BTC [-] {4}
09:38	Neil	mircea_popescu: Ah, absolutely. I intend to submit a bet soon but you or your stooges rejected my last one, so was waiting a while.
09:38	Neil	Quite happy to put money down
09:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 149 @ 0.0041704 = 0.6214 BTC [-] {3}
09:39	mircea_popescu	coolness.
09:39	Neil	In fact I consider 20% too safe; was gonna make it more interesting.
09:40	Neil	.d
09:40	ozbot	4.250 billion | Next Diff in 992 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.7517% in 6d 5h 11m 16s
09:40	Neil	Lol.
09:41	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00081296 = 38.2904 BTC [+] {4}
09:41	mircea_popescu	the beauty of a functioning free market, which bitbet amply is by now, is that it really doesn't matter so much : whatever value you pick the odds will probably stack correctly.
09:41	Neil	Would be interesting to see a plot of, um, what? Implied odds vs time?
09:41	Neil	With final outcome?
09:42	Neil	There are some that just turn out to be flukes at the last moment (like the gox collapse in the last 2 weeks of the gox price > 150 bet)
09:42	mircea_popescu	there's a plot of that in every bet, that little rectangle.
09:42	blackwhite	morning
09:43	mircea_popescu	speaking of which :
09:43	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla how about expanding the histograph to fill the whole section ?
09:43	mircea_popescu	like instead of going to the right of Histograph: make it go under
09:44	mircea_popescu	1.5ish as wide, about the same as tall as it is inow
09:44	Neil	b.t.w. I claim full credit for the 10% bet
09:44	mircea_popescu	a you put it in ?
09:44	Neil	Indeed
09:45	Apocalyptic	Neil, you bet on the Yes side I presume
09:45	mircea_popescu	judging by the addresses he bet on no
09:45	Neil	Well given the above info it's a matter of public record what my initial bet was. What happened thereafter is for you to guess and me to know.
09:45	mircea_popescu	amusingly, the mod stacked it 9/1, exactly opposite of the 1/11 the bettors stacked it.
09:45	mircea_popescu	insanity.
09:46	nubbins`	hmm
09:47	nubbins`	i'm trying to construct a reasonably sound bet on the price of s.mg, and i'm wondering if anyone has input on the conditions
09:47	nubbins`	i'm saying 2x par by <date>
09:47	mircea_popescu	why not make it explicit, 0.0002 by date
09:47	nubbins`	sure
09:47	nubbins`	the low volume presents a dilemma tho
09:48	mircea_popescu	vwap is vwap
09:48	mircea_popescu	$vwap s.mg
09:48	mpexbot	mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868
09:48	mircea_popescu	30day avg.
09:48	nubbins`	nod
09:48	nubbins`	that could work
09:48	mircea_popescu	course it'd depend on how far out
09:48	nubbins`	didn't want some bozo with a spare 20btc to just buy up and own the bet
09:49	nubbins`	is there a max limit to how far out? i was thinking april 1 2015
09:49	mircea_popescu	1 year afair
09:49	nubbins`	nod
09:50	Neil	HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4=
09:50	nubbins`	trying to find a way to turn this warrant into something that generates money before it's cashed ;D
09:50	Neil	Signature of "Neil" with the payout addr of the 10% bet
09:51	mircea_popescu	how do those things even work ?
09:51	Neil	What things?
09:51	mircea_popescu	incidentally, people running bots : how about adding a command that will parse one of these sigsigned shits into human format ?
09:52	mircea_popescu	;;sig HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4= -> string "string" signed by address "adress" on date "date"
09:52	gribble	Error: "sig" is not a valid command.
09:52	mircea_popescu	ikr?
09:52	nubbins`	hmm
09:52	Neil	Not sure re bots
09:53	mircea_popescu	would take some c/p from github, but why not ?
09:53	Apocalyptic	mircea, I believe the address nor the date is included in the sig, it's just a b64 ecoding of binary data
09:53	mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic because the powerfully retarded rangers are retarded. that format is fucking useless.
09:53	mircea_popescu	but perhaps it could somehow be extended into utility ?
		↖
09:53	Apocalyptic	yes it kinda is
09:53	Neil	I think you need the signature, the message and the address. I doubt 2 of those 3 is enough for software
09:53	Neil	Not even sure it's possible without the actual public key. Is it?
09:54	mircea_popescu	i have no idea.
09:54	Neil	hehe
09:54	mircea_popescu	i've never read how sigsig is actually implemented in code.
09:54	BingoBoingo	I was under the impression the sig contained the unhashed Pub key of an address
09:54	kakobrekla	yes address is good enough, still need all 3
09:54	Neil	BingoBoingo: I suspect you're right
09:54	mircea_popescu	i thought so too
09:55	mircea_popescu	lol china accepts new zealand dollar convertibility ?!
09:55	mircea_popescu	are they intending to colonize that island or what.
09:56	Neil	mircea_popescu: Was amusing to read your 1-way conversation with the SEC. Did they respond beyond what you posted, or did it just go silent?
09:56	mircea_popescu	went silent.
09:56	mircea_popescu	which is why i posted.
09:56	mircea_popescu	two weeks is the term.
09:56	Neil	Cool, thought as much
09:57	Duffer1	they'd need more than just a request from a functionary in order for things to get more interesting
09:57	Neil	waxman had enough of being made the fool of
09:57	mircea_popescu	her job sucks,. for the record.
09:57	Duffer1	no doubt
09:57	mircea_popescu	she spent 100k / 10 years in school in order to find a shitty office job,
09:57	Neil	Well, that's her choice. My jobs sucks, so I quit
09:57	mircea_popescu	which requires her basically to try and get people to talk to her on the phone
09:57	mircea_popescu	and read a script to them.
09:58	Duffer1	<--available for that job
09:58	mircea_popescu	she's no different from the average indian girl, except the indian girl is 19 not 29
09:58	Neil	But given her intro, I'm sure she loved the effect that "enforcement office for the SEC" or whatever it was had on 90% of the plebs
09:58	mircea_popescu	so really, it sucks to be her in ways one doesn't really fathom
09:58	kakobrekla	free caek
09:58	kakobrekla	http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67547.2640;topicseen
09:58	ozbot	Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock]
09:58	mircea_popescu	Neil so people think, but from what i know the bureaucrats rarely actually enjoy their job
09:58	Neil	mircea_popescu: I'm certain you're right.
09:59	Neil	But unluckily for them it's the best they've got, in most cases
09:59	mircea_popescu	if given the choice, this girl would have been doing something a little less retarded with her life.
09:59	mircea_popescu	however, she was born in the soviets.
09:59	BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: I was about to post that, Mining Company can't operate shovels, sells shovels
09:59	kakobrekla	lel
10:00	kakobrekla	i already told them what they are figuring out now, half a year ago
10:00	kakobrekla	but, no slander.
10:00	BingoBoingo	Interesting to see how many alts Garr can manage for all of this shill bidding
10:00	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla i have a quote for you somewhere
10:00	mircea_popescu	Quote from: kokonut on March 17, 2014, 10:02:54 AM
10:00	mircea_popescu	You are the sort of brainwashed halfwit who thinks the responsibility for the lost BTC of MtGOX customers lies with the customers, because "it's their fault for using MtGOX".
10:00	mircea_popescu	there.
10:00	mircea_popescu	brainwashed halfwit.
10:01	kakobrekla	heh
10:01	kakobrekla	i have nothing.
10:01	Neil	I hope the next 5 years makes joe blow aware of his level of brainwashing. But not holding my breath.
10:01	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5781787#msg5781787
10:01	ozbot	Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
10:01	Neil	Yesterday had "exit interview" at bigcorp from which I resigned my shitty job.
10:02	Neil	As always, asked to sign "Confidentiality agreement". Turned up without said paper, amongst all the rest.
10:02	Neil	Usual game of "didn't we ask send you the papers".
10:02	Duffer1	they'll dick around with your severance if you don't sign that
10:02	Neil	"Yes". "But I'm not gonna sign it for you for the first time, given my history of not signing this shit". "Oh, OK."
10:02	BingoBoingo	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516308.0
10:02	ozbot	Possible Scammer - John K
10:02	nubbins`	neil, good for you
10:03	Neil	Duffer1: This company has no leverage at all! The previous one did, but still did nothing. It's all just lawyer crap.
10:03	Duffer1	good
10:03	Neil	Previous one had about $250k of restricted stock.
10:03	nubbins`	BingoBoingo again?!
10:04	BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Well he was the escrow for so many shitty forum things
10:04	nubbins`	capital-E Escrow, even
10:04	mircea_popescu	namworld / jurov what's BingoBoingo;s link all about ?
10:04	Neil	That $250k went straight into BTC as soon as it could
10:05	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo no but this happens to be connected, scrat;s runnig coinroll or something, afaik
10:05	BingoBoingo	Ah
10:05	jurov	well John K was holding 100btc escrow for coinroll raffle
10:06	BingoBoingo	This whole John K escrow thing just shows why Multisig is super bad
10:06	jurov	for purpose if Scrat was not available or whatever
10:06	mircea_popescu	aha ?
10:06	jurov	and indeed it happened, but John did not pay
10:06	mircea_popescu	what, just like that ?
10:06	jurov	and he's still silent even after Scrast told him to
10:07	mircea_popescu	nuts ?!
10:07	kakobrekla	yummy yummy btc.
10:11	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
10:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.06666024 = 0.6666 BTC [-] {4}
10:14	HeySteve	I had funds with JohnK during his long unexplained absence
10:14	HeySteve	I thought he made good with everyone, or is this a new episode?
10:14	mircea_popescu	new episode
10:15	kakobrekla	might be a season
10:15	BingoBoingo	http://deadspin.com/five-year-old-mutton-bustin-rider-eats-it-1546800351
10:15	ozbot	Five-Year-Old Mutton Bustin' Rider Eats It
10:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15711 @ 0.00080959 = 12.7195 BTC [-]
10:16	mircea_popescu	lol
10:16	Neil	I recall there was a John K scam accusation that lasted about 3 wks last September-ish, and went quiet in an unconvincing way.
10:16	Neil	So not surprised to see this now
10:18	assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 440 @ 0.00223045 = 0.9814 BTC [+] {2}
10:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [-]
10:18	HeySteve	is there someone you guys would recommend to handle escrow?
10:19	mircea_popescu	HeySteve i have a few btc in escrow with salty spitoon atm
10:19	assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 160 @ 0.00223045 = 0.3569 BTC [+]
10:20	mircea_popescu	$vwap x.eur
10:20	mpexbot	mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00223045 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00223045 volume: 600 btc: 1.33827 7 day: average: 0.00214782 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2681 btc: 5.75829826 30 day: average: 0.00210992 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7608 btc: 16.05227992
10:20	mircea_popescu	;;calc 1/ 0.00223045
10:20	gribble	448.340021072
10:20	nubbins`	i've done maybe 10btc worth of deals and escrow with salty
10:20	nubbins`	he's not on irc tho, forums only
10:21	HeySteve	ok thanks, will speak to salty next time
10:21	nubbins`	np
10:21	mircea_popescu	tell him to come on irc lol
10:21	nubbins`	i'd offer to escrow, but who am i, anyway? :D
10:22	mircea_popescu	;;gettrust nubbins`
10:22	gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask nubbins`!~leel@stjhnf0148w-142134196038.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nl.bellaliant.net. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user nubbins`: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=nubbins%60 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins%60 | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013
10:22	nubbins`	oh, that's who!
10:22	mircea_popescu	not that bad.
10:22	HeySteve	;;getrust nubbins`
10:22	gribble	Error: "getrust" is not a valid command.
10:22	nubbins`	you missed a T
10:22	HeySteve	I don't get output
10:22	HeySteve	;;gettrust nubbins`
10:22	gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask nubbins`!~leel@stjhnf0148w-142134196038.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nl.bellaliant.net. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user nubbins`: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=HeySteve&dest=nubbins%60 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins%60 | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013
10:22	nubbins`	you typed get rust
10:22	nubbins`	and i'm not rusted ;(
10:22	mircea_popescu	lol get rust
10:23	HeySteve	ah ha... still not tho
10:23	Neil	mircea_popescu: Kinda surprised by your faith in WoT. I'm not on it, but have had many dealings with reputable "players". Not sure I believe anything on it, given the rep it assigned to "pirateat40" just before he "did the inevitable".
10:23	mircea_popescu	anduck went negative ? when did that happen ?
10:23	nubbins`	HeySteve: well, if you don't have a WoT identity, ;;gettrust isn't going to do anything for you :)
10:23	HeySteve	do I need to be registered for WoT?
10:23	mircea_popescu	Neil didja read mpoe-pr's discussion of that topic ?
10:23	nubbins`	mircea_popescu: scammorz
10:23	mircea_popescu	nubbins` seriously ? details ?
10:23	Neil	mircea_popescu: Maybe, maybe not.
10:24	nubbins`	http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=anduck
10:24	ozbot	Rating Details for User 'anduck'
10:24	Neil	Read a lot of garbage. Signal-to-noise is tought.
10:24	Neil	tough
10:24	nubbins`	looks like a bunch of socks
10:24	nubbins`	(and rg)
10:24	mircea_popescu	a that's bs.
10:24	mircea_popescu	Neil https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110861.msg1227871#msg1227871
10:24	nubbins`	HeySteve: yep, you do
10:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 143 @ 0.00416001 = 0.5949 BTC [-]
10:24	mircea_popescu	it's a tool. it doesn't work by itself.
10:24	nubbins`	;;rated anduck
10:24	gribble	You rated user anduck on Thu Nov 7 11:50:53 2013, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: patron of the arts.
10:25	mircea_popescu	lol
10:25	Daphna_A_Waxman_	hello all
10:25	Daphna_A_Waxman_	can you read this?
10:25	mircea_popescu	hello cam888
10:25	Apocalyptic	lol
10:25	mircea_popescu	oops i mean Daphna_A_Waxman_
10:25	nubbins`	and they say government grants are the only way to make a living in the arts.
10:25	Duffer1	ha
10:25	Daphna_A_Waxman_	Hi Mircea
10:25	Daphna_A_Waxman_	I'm not recording this conversation
10:25	Daphna_A_Waxman_	Anything we discuss is between you and I.
10:26	Daphna_A_Waxman_	I can promise you confidentiality.
10:26	mircea_popescu	that's nice, but this is a public channel and it is logged, as per the topic.
10:26	mircea_popescu	!topic
10:26	BingoBoingo	Daphna_A_Waxman_: Actually this channel is recorded and logged
10:26	kakobrekla	!topic
10:26	mircea_popescu	that aside, when did you get transferred to thailand ?
10:26	nubbins`	^ HEH
10:26	kakobrekla	no u confuse me mp, its ;;
10:26	BingoBoingo	http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com
10:26	kakobrekla	;;topic
10:26	gribble	http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com
10:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 387 @ 0.00416 = 1.6099 BTC [-]
10:26	mircea_popescu	spammors the lot of ye.
10:27	Daphna_A_Waxman_	I'm just here on a sex vacation.
10:27	HeySteve	story checks out
10:27	mircea_popescu	this is the wrong instagram.
10:27	Daphna_A_Waxman_	The girls in this country are amazing! They will do ANYTHING
10:27	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
10:28	mircea_popescu	anyway, 6/10.
10:28	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla GOT YOU :D
10:28	Neil	mircea_popescu: Yeah. Not sure if MP == MPOE, but yeah I realize most of that. I've felt it's not worth the effort (small group of people who know each other in real life has been enough so far) but I get the point, but not convinced yet.
10:28	nubbins`	HeySteve: /msg gribble help eregister is as good a place as any to stary
10:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 269 @ 0.0041103 = 1.1057 BTC [-] {2}
10:28	nubbins`	*start
10:29	mircea_popescu	Neil well whatever works, you know ?
10:29	Neil	Workage == low, it seems so far
10:29	mircea_popescu	but otherwise, the wot existed in other implementations every time small groups wanted to trade on a large scale.
10:29	HeySteve	thanks Nubbins, will do so. been meaning to check out the system for a while
10:29	mircea_popescu	basically you're telling me that you don't need a hansa seal because you only trade in novgorod
10:29	nubbins`	it's one of those things that behooves you to get straightened away sooner rather than later
10:29	HeySteve	http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/04/eye_opener_porn_and_federal_wo.html
10:29	ozbot	Federal Eye
10:29	nubbins`	so don't wait too long ;D
10:29	mircea_popescu	good for you, but once you wish to send your kid to marry some chick in goteborg you damned straight will.
10:29	Neil	But for that reason I found it amusing you asking that waxman loser to get herself on WoT
10:30	HeySteve	SEC was fiddling while Rome burnt
10:30	LordPutin	i'm worried about sec is going to do to mp next :(
10:30	LordPutin	we need mp in the bitcoin community
10:31	Neil	bitcoin doesn't need a community or anything or anyone. That's why it rocks.
10:31	mircea_popescu	LordPutin i read somewhar on the forum that he's a dinosaur - well, at least when wearing heels - and will soon be superseded by some random forumer with opinions
10:31	mircea_popescu	so nothing to worry.
10:31	Neil	But there exists a bunch of interesting characters. That's undeniable.
10:31	LordPutin	oh i thought it was a girl
10:32	LordPutin	sounded like a girls name
10:32	nubbins`	i bet you think nikita is a girl's name, too
10:32	mircea_popescu	it is.
10:32	mircea_popescu	hruschev was a gal.
10:32	*	nubbins` cackles
10:32	mircea_popescu	full figured gal*
10:32	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00080828 = 36.6959 BTC [-] {3}
10:33	Neil	Eh? I work with a nikita. Convinced it's a dude.
10:33	Neil	Was I wrong?
10:33	nubbins`	what is "wrong", anyway?
10:33	Neil	lol
10:33	HeySteve	ok nubbins, I have a GPG key, will work through this
10:33	Shakespeare	"The Apaches were never defeated because they didn't fight in the open" well...
10:34	nubbins`	great. upload it to a keyserver, /msg gribble eregister heysteve <key id>, and you're off
10:34	nubbins`	oh, and keep your keys safe ;(
10:34	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [+]
10:34	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 96 @ 0.00411 = 0.3946 BTC [-]
10:35	Shakespeare	United States of Apache
10:36	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/#comment-98572 <
10:36	ozbot	Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
10:36	mircea_popescu	updated with the pdf cause apparently ppls wanted it.
10:37	jurov	so you did not hear from them since?
10:37	nubbins`	dat inconsistent capitalization
10:37	mircea_popescu	nop.
10:37	mircea_popescu	http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/04/eye_opener_porn_and_federal_wo.html
10:37	ozbot	Federal Eye
10:38	mircea_popescu	this is extremely lulzy, especially seeing how the girl claimed (and i believe her) tyhat she can't get on freenode.
10:38	Anduck	mircea_popescu: negbombers. gettrust matters
10:38	mircea_popescu	so on one hand, they can't do their jobs. on the other, jacking off all day anyway
10:38	LordPutin	maybe shes here now
10:38	mircea_popescu	Anduck aha.
10:38	*	LordPutin hides
10:39	Shakespeare	the pdf says itself the whole thing is voluntary
10:39	Duffer1	"This inquiry is non-public.."
10:40	only	Erik, quick, get a Romanian passport
10:40	asciilifeform	what's it take to get one of those, anyway ?
10:41	only	you need a Moldavian one, first, and you can actually buy one
10:42	Shakespeare	"In one instance, a regional office staff account admitted viewing pornography on his office computer and on his SEC-issued laptop while on official government travel. Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said."
10:42	Shakespeare	kinda sounds like he was hacked or sumth
10:42	nubbins`	Shakespeare: HER
10:42	nubbins`	:o
10:42	Shakespeare	"A senior attorney at SEC headquarters in Washington admitted he sometimes spent as much as eight hours viewing pornography from his office computer, according to the report. The attorney’s computer ran out of space for the downloaded images, so he started storing them on CDs and DVDs that he stored in his office."
10:42	Shakespeare	wow
10:42	nubbins`	"nearly 1,800 access denials"
10:42	nubbins`	imagine
10:43	nubbins`	"well, the last 1,799 times i've tried to load motherless, it's been blocked... maybe today is the day"
10:43	Shakespeare	"This stunning report should make everyone question the wisdom of moving forward with plans to give regulators like the SEC even more widespread authority," Issa said
10:44	Shakespeare	man these people consume mas porn
10:44	nubbins`	mucho mas
10:44	nubbins`	(with a shout-out to pynchon)
10:45	LordPutin	why are theyso interested in s.diceanyway, was the sale illegal?
10:46	asciilifeform	for dekulakization, most likely.
10:46	Shakespeare	well as i understand it, most SEC investigations are a reaction
10:46	Shakespeare	so likely someone filed a complain
10:46	Shakespeare	t
10:46	LordPutin	ahh ok
10:46	LordPutin	makes sense
10:47	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [7C] 50 @ 0.00284602 = 0.1423 BTC [-]
10:47	Shakespeare	if i had to guess, it'd be someone who either felt gypped by his offering of the added tranches, and/or someone that felt gypped by the closing settlement
10:47	nubbins`	my mother is a gypsy, you insensitive clod
10:48	Duffer1	or the IRS just looking for its pound of flesh
10:48	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]
10:48	LordPutin	id sayitsthesecond one
10:48	Shakespeare	well at least her people stole a verb outta the deal
10:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00596183 = 0.5962 BTC [-] {4}
10:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.08001 = 0.8001 BTC [-] {2}
10:50	Neil	"Trapped in the indecision of another fine menu". Love it
10:51	HeySteve	hey nubbins, I made a new cert and put the revoke on an encrypted volume. any idea where GPG places the cert itself in Windows?
10:52	nubbins`	you can export your private key pretty easily via command line
10:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.02125914 = 0.2126 BTC [-] {4}
10:52	HeySteve	ok but I want to place the original in the encrypted volume so no one can access it (easily)
10:53	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.01600027 = 0.32 BTC [-] {2}
10:53	HeySteve	or is that stored within GPG somehow and not accessible? still pretty new at this stuff
10:53	nubbins`	nod. no idea where it's stored right now, but export spits it out as plaintext
10:53	nubbins`	which you can then copy, paste into a text file on your encrypted whatever
10:54	only	or a buthurt gambler, perhaps?
10:54	HeySteve	I see, should probably work out if there's another copy just hanging around on the HD
10:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18078 @ 0.00080959 = 14.6358 BTC [+]
10:55	nubbins`	probably, but it's encrypted with your impossibly long, difficult to guess passphrase
10:55	nubbins`	gpg --export-secret-key -a "username"
10:55	nubbins`	try that
10:56	nubbins`	gpg --export-secret-key -a "username" --output privatekey.asc
10:58	HeySteve	ok thanks
10:58	nubbins`	it'd be prudent to try restoring these keys on another machine, as well
10:59	nubbins`	what's the usefulness of a backup you can't restore, etc
11:00	Shakespeare	"The Fed has been targeting a 6.5% unemployment rate as a gauge to start discussing when to raise interest rates. But several Fed officials have said they don’t find the jobless rate reference useful now that the rate, at 6.7% in February, is near the 6.5% threshold."
11:01	Ghaleon	2Mircea <- one tuff dude!
11:01	Ghaleon	Daphne is sweatin!!
11:02	Shakespeare	https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/README.txt
11:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 63 @ 0.00181043 = 0.1141 BTC [-] {11}
11:03	Shakespeare	Fork in 3... 2...
11:03	Neil	.d
11:03	ozbot	4.250 billion | Next Diff in 977 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.4696% in 6d 1h 37m 20s
11:04	Neil	hah
11:06	HeySteve	I can get it to display the key but not output to a file for some reason
11:06	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.05427484 = 1.0855 BTC [+] {6}
11:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00080973 = 16.4375 BTC [+] {2}
11:06	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0666 = 0.4662 BTC [-]
11:07	HeySteve	you have to put the output switch upfront is all
11:07	HeySteve	dir
11:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05438232 = 0.9245 BTC [+] {5}
11:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 14 @ 0.05558566 = 0.7782 BTC [+] {12}
11:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
11:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05685 = 0.1137 BTC [+] {2}
11:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06583333 = 0.1975 BTC [-] {3}
11:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
11:10	Shakespeare	yknow who needs to be jailed, the Domain Registry of America people
11:10	Shakespeare	they send snailmail to clients all the time as what appears to be a renewal bill
11:10	Shakespeare	but really it's just a trick
11:14	Neil	"The Fed has been targeting a 6.5%..." Joke? Like they think they can target anything? The world gets on witih it, they sit there observing.
11:14	Apocalyptic	^
11:15	artifexd	I put my gpg key id on my website. Should I link it to a plain text file of the key or to its location on a key server?
11:17	mircea_popescu	"Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said." << HER drive ?!
11:17	mircea_popescu	and people say women don't watch pronz.
11:18	mircea_popescu	Shakespeare this will be nice data for when people start bitching about .bait
11:18	the20year1	any more news from teh SEC?
11:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 42 @ 0.0056706 = 0.2382 BTC [-] {3}
11:19	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
11:19	Shakespeare	.bait
11:19	ozbot	http://25.media.tumblr.com/avatar_eeeea3db0bc8_512.png
11:19	Shakespeare	ew
11:20	Apocalyptic	artifexd, you could do both
11:20	BingoBoingo	.bait
11:20	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32bcx3aHO1qi9yn5o1_500.jpg
11:20	mircea_popescu	Ghaleon ello.
11:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
11:20	Apocalyptic	artifexd, but I would rather go for the plain text file I think
11:21	mircea_popescu	"The new behavior of `walletpassphrase` is to set a new unlock time overriding
11:21	mircea_popescu	the old one:"
11:21	mircea_popescu	this is so fucking stupid.
11:22	mircea_popescu	who did that!
11:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42595 @ 0.00081027 = 34.5135 BTC [+]
11:22	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
11:22	artifexd	Apocalyptic Thank you for your opinion.
11:23	Ghaleon	Hi Mircea
11:23	Ghaleon	you kicked serious ass brother
11:23	Ghaleon	the writing was also excellent
11:23	Ghaleon	Ms. Waxman was shocked I am sure
11:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0551034 = 0.1653 BTC [+] {3}
11:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.065 = 0.195 BTC [-] {3}
11:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-] {3}
11:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00081344 = 14.8046 BTC [+]
11:23	Ghaleon	telling a Sec investigator to find you on IRC..... that will go down in history
11:23	mircea_popescu	cheers.
11:24	mircea_popescu	i tell that to everyone, what. people gotta get with the times.
11:24	Ghaleon	imagine Ben Bernanke pops up here
11:24	Ghaleon	lol
11:24	kakobrekla	he will get banned
11:24	mod6	lol
11:24	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla whai
11:24	kakobrekla	spamming usd
11:24	kakobrekla	fuck dat
11:24	Ghaleon	lolz
11:24	mircea_popescu	first pankkake stoled his coin, nao you ban him ?
11:25	kakobrekla	no spam policy is strict
11:26	Ghaleon	without Spamming Ben will fade away... the boy must spam to sustain himself
11:26	nubbins`	$vwap s.mg
11:26	mpexbot	nubbins`: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868
11:27	kakobrekla	anyway
11:27	JessicaS	hi
11:27	kakobrekla	ben is out of the picture
11:27	nubbins`	wow, 6k btc volume today
11:27	kakobrekla	he is irrelevant
11:27	Ghaleon	yeah but Ben still has the US NAVY in his pocket
11:28	Shakespeare	http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/19/bitcoin-danish-national-bank
11:28	ozbot	Bitcoins are like 'glass beads', warns Danish national bank | Technology | theguardian.com
11:28	kakobrekla	so discussion about baning him is fruitless
11:28	Ghaleon	it is a battle of inches folks. we are making awesome ground. a peoples currency will remove their main pillar of control
11:28	BingoBoingo	O.o Interesting bet http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-/
11:28	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla what if he comes here for his retirement
11:29	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you made that ?
11:29	kakobrekla	what if we dont play what if!
11:29	Shakespeare	lol
11:29	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Of course
11:30	mircea_popescu	i guess ima put a little on no, hedge this properly.
11:31	BingoBoingo	Wonder if it will turn into a 1000 BTC+ nailbiter near the end
11:32	Shakespeare	"UK's new 12-sided £1 said to be the world's most secure coin"
11:32	Shakespeare	more sides = more security
11:32	Apocalyptic	many sides, such secure
11:32	Apocalyptic	seriously
11:32	kakobrekla	12 sided coin?
11:33	kakobrekla	you mean its not round?
11:33	Shakespeare	well it's low-resolution round
11:33	Shakespeare	12bit gfx
11:33	HeySteve	;;gpg info HeySteve
11:33	gribble	User 'HeySteve', with keyid F8E87076CA58441F, fingerprint B14929A9933420C966FB409EF8E87076CA58441F, and bitcoin address None, registered on Wed Mar 19 11:30:37 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=HeySteve . Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve .
11:33	kakobrekla	how does that make for security
11:33	mircea_popescu	low resolution round hahaha
11:34	kakobrekla	i thought the great invetion was the wheel
11:34	mircea_popescu	anywyaq, they had those before, the half quid iirc
11:34	kakobrekla	not the square
11:34	kakobrekla	or the box
11:34	kakobrekla	or whatever
11:34	kakobrekla	rectangle
11:34	Shakespeare	Reverend Jesse Jackson calls out Silicon Valley for lack of racial and gender diversity
11:34	Shakespeare	sigh
11:35	kakobrekla	you only have 4 genders there? UNACEPTABRU
11:36	Shakespeare	must import katecraig to reach homeostasis
11:36	LordPutin	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLwu4E35us
11:36	ozbot	Putin: Crimea similar to Kosovo, West is rewriting its own rule book (FULL SPEECH) - YouTube
11:36	mircea_popescu	homeostahahahaha
11:36	LordPutin	so true
11:36	Shakespeare	:)
11:36	mircea_popescu	LordPutin his mistake is to call it "the west"
11:36	mircea_popescu	he should simply speak of the us, drive the eu wedge all the way.
11:36	LordPutin	great speech
11:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06649992 = 0.1995 BTC [+] {3}
11:37	LordPutin	good point mircea
11:37	mircea_popescu	already the traitorous bunch (italy, france, etc)
11:37	mircea_popescu	are looking for an exit of ignorance
11:37	mircea_popescu	("i didn't cheat on you honey, the us forced me me!!1 I was duped, and raped!! ")
11:37	LordPutin	Putin should just be the president of europe
11:37	HeySteve	;;gettrust HeySteve
11:37	gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user HeySteve: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=HeySteve&dest=HeySteve | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=HeySteve | Rated since: never
11:38	nubbins`	does bitbet explicitly state that it uses UTC, or should a bet itself make note of this?
11:38	LordPutin	20mins in he starts talkign about the us
11:38	LordPutin	andhe's spot on
11:39	mircea_popescu	gmt, in faq
11:39	Ghaleon	Putin = THE MAN
11:39	nubbins`	ok
11:39	Shakespeare	http://www.picshag.com/pics/092009/computers-are-racist.jpg
11:39	Ghaleon	Mircea, good point about driving a wedge between ruope and the usa
11:39	Ghaleon	Europe sees how cool and fair Putin is... people r getting sick of the usa's meddling and hypocrisy
11:39	LordPutin	i'm going to name my kid putin because i want him to grow up strong and handsome
11:40	LordPutin	very true ghaleon
11:40	mircea_popescu	Ghaleon no, more like europe doesn't give a shit and needs the gas.
11:40	mircea_popescu	"man faces a felony charge after he was arrested by police at a township board meeting when he refused to stop talking past a three-minute time limit for public comment. "
11:40	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo ^
11:40	nubbins`	wow
11:40	BingoBoingo	Lol
11:40	mircea_popescu	i guess asciilifeform ^ too
11:40	nubbins`	man can no longer vote after speaking for 181 seconds
11:40	mircea_popescu	the soviets never did this, even.
11:40	BingoBoingo	Wasn't me this time
11:41	BingoBoingo	Allegedly
11:41	BingoBoingo	Eh, I voted yesterday anyways
11:42	Ghaleon	we are going thru our Boleshevik revolution now here in the usa
11:42	thestringpuller	;;ud you heard?
11:42	gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you%20heard | A subsitute for 'y'know, often heard in jails or prison uttered by uneducated inmates during conversation between cells. Can be used to validate th...
11:42	ozbot	Urban Dictionary: you heard
11:42	LordPutin	.putinbait
11:42	LordPutin	http://www.awsm.com/img/2010/vladimir-putin-riding-bear.jpg
11:42	nubbins`	"For this bet to resolve as YES, 30-day VWAP of S.MG must be above 0.0002 on MPEx on October 1, 2014." << thoughts? seem simple enough?
11:43	Shakespeare	http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/217065/fox-news-affiliate-accidentally-broadcasts-dick-pic/
11:43	mircea_popescu	on mpex is spurious
11:43	mike_c_z	you specifically want "on"? not "on or before"?
11:43	nubbins`	don't want some schmo arguing about havelock PT
11:43	mircea_popescu	"This is shocking, because nobody in the world has ever seen a penis before. Life as we know it will never be the same."
11:44	BingoBoingo	;; ud poopsterbate
11:44	gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poopsterbate | Apr 30, 2005 ... I heard Mark poopsterbating on the toilet last night. Andy enjoys to poopsterbate. "Want to watch me poosterbate?" Stephen asked. by ShawnB ...
11:44	ozbot	Urban Dictionary: poopsterbate
11:44	mircea_popescu	especially those two broads.
11:44	Shakespeare	they were only prparing
11:44	Shakespeare	not surprised
11:44	Shakespeare	open wide!
11:44	nubbins`	mike_c_z: specifically on october 1, yep
11:44	mircea_popescu	kik
11:44	nubbins`	i don't want to have to be constantly checking it
11:44	mircea_popescu	;;estimate
11:45	gribble	Next difficulty estimate | None based on data since last change | 4616703922.4 based on data for last three days
11:45	mircea_popescu	uh
11:45	mircea_popescu	;;diff
11:45	gribble	4.2502179198695354E9
11:46	Apocalyptic	.d
11:46	ozbot	4.250 billion | Next Diff in 975 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.0906% in 6d 2h 4m 7s
11:47	mircea_popescu	nuts.
11:47	Shakespeare	Auto dealers fire back at Tesla CEO: 'This Musk guy, he wants all the profits for himself'
11:47	Shakespeare	...
11:47	mircea_popescu	"for his own car"
11:48	BingoBoingo	Putin might have some competition http://sploid.gizmodo.com/watch-the-chinese-air-force-bombing-the-yellow-river-to-1547130234
11:48	Shakespeare	"They wanted to go direct, which means no sales force. That’s cutting out a lot of people. No way that’s gonna fly."
11:48	Shakespeare	i just dont get it
11:49	mircea_popescu	it's new york.
11:49	mircea_popescu	this is what they do.
11:49	mike_c_z	"During negotiations Musk left the auto dealers waiting for two hours while he checked with his manager"
11:49	mircea_popescu	they figure they're worth something on the grounds they exist.
11:50	Shakespeare	makes me want a Tesla, really
11:50	Shakespeare	i dont drive enough to care though
11:51	sheldonthomas	hi. are havelock investment questions relevant in this channel
11:51	nubbins`	sure
11:52	sheldonthomas	in the neobee prospectus it says "LMB Holdings, nor any employee, affiliate, or consultant are liable for any losses caused by default, theft, exploitation, manipulation, “hacking”, or software errors within the host exchange."
		↖
11:52	jurov	only havelock staff is not here
11:52	sheldonthomas	shouldn't that be are _not_ liable
11:53	sheldonthomas	i see
11:53	sheldonthomas	well
11:53	nubbins`	heh
11:53	nubbins`	yep, that's poor wording
11:53	sheldonthomas	there's a typo in the prospectus
11:53	sheldonthomas	ok
11:53	sheldonthomas	just checking, thanks
11:53	nubbins`	guess they forgot the "Neither"
11:53	jurov	sheldonthomas you plan to exploit it?
11:53	nubbins`	proofreading is important
11:53	nubbins`	too bad nobody bothers
11:54	mike_c	;;seen topace
11:54	gribble	topace was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <topace> ^ you'll have to contact support
11:54	sheldonthomas	no exploit -- but i must admit, that's a surefire way to turn off a prospective investor
11:55	jurov	mike_c: topace isn't the staff for several months already
11:55	kakobrekla	i thought it would turn you on
11:55	kakobrekla	whut
11:55	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10805 @ 0.00081333 = 8.788 BTC [-]
11:55	mike_c	well, he's still staff. just not owner.
11:55	kakobrekla	topace is not hl anymo?
11:55	mircea_popescu	sheldonthomas they're experts with actual lawyers and everything, not some random clueless kids without an education
11:55	mircea_popescu	as a result their contracts say exactly what they mean : LMB is responsible for any havelock theft etc
11:55	Apocalyptic	kako, allegedly
11:55	mircea_popescu	both as an entity as well as all its principals etc.
11:55	mircea_popescu	nubbins` there's no sauch thing as poor wording in a contracxt.
11:56	mircea_popescu	what it says is what is.
11:56	jurov	kakobrekla even if he still is, he defers everything to panamanians
11:56	kakobrekla	but a kiss is not a contract
11:56	sheldonthomas	at mircea that's very enlightening thanks for the clarification
11:56	kakobrekla	i mean prospectus, not kiss.
11:56	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla he claims he's no longer involved, quite transparently fraudulently.
11:56	kakobrekla	where did he claim that
11:56	Apocalyptic	here
11:56	mike_c	he claims he is technical side only
11:56	mircea_popescu	it's in this log actually.
11:57	kakobrekla	fuckin noobs not reading the log, i hate those
11:57	mircea_popescu	ikr?
11:57	mircea_popescu	some people got a dayjob, yo!
11:57	kakobrekla	hehe
11:57	mircea_popescu	can't hang out here all day watching KRS-1's pron
11:57	topace	hi
11:57	sheldonthomas	mircea_popescu but upon further thought the sentence still doesn't make sense because of "nor" in the context of making an action-positive statement
11:58	mircea_popescu	so they added a spurious n. typo.
11:58	topace	i am indeed no longer involved with the BUSINESS side of havelock
11:58	kakobrekla	topace is there an official statement re you and hl
11:58	topace	but i am still involved in the technical side
11:58	topace	since many months
11:58	Shakespeare	the wording has been updated for clarification
11:58	mircea_popescu	Shakespeare one can "update" contracts nao ?!
11:58	mircea_popescu	what is this, like gigavps ?
11:59	kakobrekla	Shakespeare you are with neobee?
11:59	sheldonthomas	it needs the word "Neither" at the beginning or to not use the word "nor" at all
11:59	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.34873140 BTC to 3`970 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
11:59	kakobrekla	a prospectus is not a contract ?
11:59	topace	November 1, 2013 officially the operation of havelock was handed off to the panama fund s.a.
11:59	ThickAsThieves	nor has been removed
11:59	jurov	topace, can't you make them man the irc? so that they aren't so outrageously clueless?
11:59	mircea_popescu	jurov empty virtual offices can not man irc.
12:00	nubbins`	"19-03-2014PendingMark Karpeles, Mt. Gox CEO, to be Murdered or Imprisoned"
12:00	nubbins`	well that reads like a badbet
12:00	kakobrekla	its a pass the bomb kinda thing, nefario and ukyo failed on that
12:01	LordPutin	lol approve plz
12:01	jurov	mircea in the process of coiroll listing, we are interacting with some virtual entities that seem too stupid to be completely virtual
12:01	kakobrekla	btctc tried since get go
12:01	asciilifeform	gasenwagenbait.
12:01	kakobrekla	nobody took a bite
12:01	mircea_popescu	jurov lmao i see
12:01	topace	no, i cant make them "man the irc"
12:02	mircea_popescu	or exist, for that matter.
12:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.99112370 BTC to 13`595 shares, 14646 satoshi per share
12:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
12:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0542 = 0.542 BTC [-] {4}
12:02	topace	the offices are real, feel free to visit them in panama, several community members already have
12:02	mircea_popescu	or, in the immortal words of costanza,
12:02	mircea_popescu	GEORGE: Or we don't even send the check and then when they call, we pretend we're the cleaning service. Heh heh. "Hello? I sorry, no here Kruger."
12:02	kakobrekla	theres a po box and everything
12:03	jcpham	confirmed legit
12:03	jcpham	google map'd it bro
12:03	kakobrekla	i was there, saw him do it
12:04	LordPutin	please allow that Mark Karpelas bet to happen
12:05	kakobrekla	i dun think it fits the rules
12:07	nubbins`	^
12:07	nubbins`	putting out a murder-for-hire does indeed break the rules
12:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05559995 = 0.1112 BTC [+] {2}
12:08	LordPutin	or imprisoned
12:09	asciilifeform	imprisonment-for-hire ?
12:09	mircea_popescu	lol
12:09	jcpham	i already dialed 911 and reported the chat
12:09	jcpham	everyone stay calm
12:09	mircea_popescu	there's exactly 0 way he can end up in jail this year.
12:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00449839 = 0.2249 BTC [-] {4}
12:09	mircea_popescu	this will be argued in court for a while
12:10	kakobrekla	i would have thrown myself outta window
12:10	kakobrekla	in his shoes
12:10	kakobrekla	prolly even before starting gox
12:10	asciilifeform	speaking of which,
12:10	asciilifeform	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-18/28-year-old-former-jpmorgan-banker-jumps-his-death-latest-series-recent-suicides
12:10	ozbot	28-Year Old Former JPMorgan Banker Jumps To His Death, Latest In Series Of Recent Suicides | Zero He
12:10	asciilifeform	'street pizza.'
12:11	kakobrekla	cool
12:11	LordPutin	i would like to see a bitbet that australia wontwin a single group match for the world cup this year
12:11	LordPutin	not sure how to word it tho
12:11	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05435 = 0.1087 BTC [-] {2}
12:11	jurov	don't forget to include which sport it is
12:11	nubbins`	streetza
12:13	only	asciilifeform: isn't 28 a bit kindof early?
12:13	mircea_popescu	$vwap X.IDIFF.MAR
12:13	mpexbot	mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.MAR 1 day: no data 7 day: no data 30 day: average: 0.00294764 high: 0.003 low: 0.00290837 volume: 350 btc: 1.031674
12:13	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
12:13	nubbins`	zerohedge sure does know how to make a comment thread easy to read
12:13	nubbins`	i find i digest information most easily when it's crammed into a fuckin one-inch column
12:14	jurov	mircea_popescu: you already liquidating it? just got something
12:14	mircea_popescu	jurov yup preparing announcement
12:14	mircea_popescu	nubbins` word.
12:14	mircea_popescu	goes in and out of ass easier that way
12:15	nubbins`	heh.
12:15	nubbins`	"reader comments: now easier than ever to pass"
12:15	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06729989 = 0.3365 BTC [+] {4}
12:15	ThickAsThieves	http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/18/5523262/insect-evolves-to-eat-poisonous-corn
12:15	ozbot	The hunter becomes the hunted: insect evolves to eat poisonous corn | The Verge
12:16	ThickAsThieves	a friend of mine actually is one of the scientists working on these kind bug killers
12:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74537 @ 0.00080863 = 60.2729 BTC [-] {3}
12:16	nubbins`	mircea_popescu: you ever get your mp-as-hitler portrait sorted after?
12:17	mircea_popescu	haven't received it yet.
12:17	mircea_popescu	end of month was deadline iirc ?
12:17	nubbins`	can't recall
12:17	nubbins`	thestringpuller was commissioning a portrait of you for the conference, but he sat on his hands too long and it won't be ready
12:17	nubbins`	shame, it was gonna be pretty sick
12:17	nubbins`	mp as napoleon ;0
12:17	mircea_popescu	afaik he's not actuallyt comin so prolly why
12:18	nubbins`	there's sketches somewhere
12:19	nubbins`	was gonna be a cross between the picture of you squinting in the desert and this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Napoleon4.jpg
12:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.06981818 = 0.768 BTC [-] {4}
12:21	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/xidiffmar-has-settled/
12:21	ozbot	X.IDIFF.MAR has settled. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
12:23	kakobrekla	oh wow.
12:23	mircea_popescu	nubbins` not exactly a novel idea http://trilema.com/2011/arogante-ngrozitoare/
12:23	nubbins`	HEH.
12:24	ThickAsThieves	"I see myself forced to conclude the contract is not well understood by market participants, which is a problem that will have to be addressed."
12:24	kakobrekla	faggot pants
12:24	ThickAsThieves	you could always improve the design
12:24	jurov	^ yes, i'm very curious how circumspectly is mp gonna fix it
12:24	ThickAsThieves	obv jurov and i have beat this horse enough though
12:25	jurov	*haven't
12:25	kakobrekla	ThickAsThieves you mean the css?
12:25	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves the design ?! of the contract ?
12:25	kakobrekla	mircea_popescu make it bold
12:25	kakobrekla	and italics
12:25	ThickAsThieves	yeah surely that's what i meant
12:25	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0008128 = 31.0083 BTC [+] {3}
12:25	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: i thought we could just show up in romania on the 17th and just listen to what people had to say
12:25	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla my faggot pants are more css than yours :D
12:25	ThickAsThieves	i mean the design of the instrument
12:25	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: there was no official registration except for VIP's
12:26	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller mebbe, on some days.
12:26	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves specifically ?
12:26	jurov	mircea you refused several times to publish the cumulative cover
12:26	jurov	so that it would be clear to everyone how much it is
12:26	jurov	that's all
12:26	ThickAsThieves	well i havent thought much on recently, but you could publish what it actually is
12:27	ThickAsThieves	or, not cap it
12:27	mircea_popescu	but it was clear to everyone that 2.9x times previous cover would be a top limit i would imagine
12:27	mike_c	the contract was understood by whoever sold contracts above the limit :)
12:27	ThickAsThieves	you imagined wrong, you said as much already
12:27	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves so i don't cap it. you come to make a contract, have to deposit infinity btc.
12:27	thestringpuller	nubbins`: we can still go further with it how bout I send you more btc rite nao?
12:27	jurov	or 2.9*2.9*previous, or whatever
12:27	mike_c	so probably half the participants understood
12:27	mircea_popescu	mike_c well sure.
12:27	ThickAsThieves	is this different that not capping options?
12:28	ThickAsThieves	than*
12:28	mircea_popescu	yes.
12:28	mircea_popescu	options are settled in btc. this is not settled in hashes.
12:28	mircea_popescu	if there existed a way to physically deliver we wouldn't have this problem at all.
12:28	mircea_popescu	but there's no way to meter hash.
12:28	ThickAsThieves	hashes represent the USD rate
12:28	ThickAsThieves	not the settlement
12:28	ThickAsThieves	in my comparison
12:29	mircea_popescu	you'll have to formalise that.
12:29	mircea_popescu	x.idiff is hash->btc ; o.usd is usd->btc
12:29	nubbins`	thestringpuller: sure, whatever works for you
12:29	thestringpuller	how would physical delivery keep you from having to deliver infinite usd?
12:29	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller because you could sell 1trn hashes per contract or somesuch.
12:29	kakobrekla	but infinite usd is not impossible
12:29	ThickAsThieves	lol
12:30	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla it is nao, since you booted bernanke
12:30	mike_c	i don't see the problem. 350 contracts sold over the last 30 days by someone who didn't understand. so they lost .1 btc and now they understand.
12:30	kakobrekla	cant be booted if one doesnt join in the first place
12:30	mike_c	everyone else understood, and didn't trade.
12:30	thestringpuller	infinity is not finite, it's unreachable someone might as well physically deliver you a printer
12:30	ThickAsThieves	the "problem" is not a problem in that sense
12:30	thestringpuller	or a fed print shop
12:30	BingoBoingo	Maybe being Satoshi was Bernake's way of hating his day job
12:30	ThickAsThieves	it is more an issue of optimizing the product
12:30	ThickAsThieves	to increase usage
12:30	mircea_popescu	mike_c i guess so. was it actually one party doing it ?
12:31	ThickAsThieves	assuming the goal is for action to occur on mpex
12:31	mike_c	there were only a few bids up above the cap. the seller was likely probably one person :)
12:31	ThickAsThieves	there's certainly more market to be had
12:31	ThickAsThieves	look at bitbets
12:32	ThickAsThieves	and these deprived schemes
12:32	ThickAsThieves	B.SELL etc
12:32	mircea_popescu	surely.
12:32	ThickAsThieves	so you can cling to the current design and blame the user
12:33	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014#b3
12:33	ThickAsThieves	or you can accept that you do have power over the design
12:33	ThickAsThieves	and seize teh day
12:33	mircea_popescu	power over the design i have, but over reality i do not.
12:34	ThickAsThieves	so allow ability for writer to publisj the cap
12:34	ThickAsThieves	jurov solved this issue long ago
12:34	mike_c	so the suggestion is contracts with different caps?
12:34	ThickAsThieves	you could even have multiple listings, like options
12:34	ThickAsThieves	all with different caps
12:34	mircea_popescu	derp.
12:34	mircea_popescu	contracts with different caps are different contracts.
12:34	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I imagine that could be one of the happiest Bitcoins you could ever part with
12:35	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you guessed it sister :D
12:35	benkay	a man once spoke to me about explicit collateralization of options.
12:35	benkay	i informed him it'd make for a downright wacky marketplace.
12:35	benkay	on the topic of non-sentient-beings: http://amultiverse.com/comic/2010/07/19/sentient-gardens/
12:36	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I know the benkay and bitcoinpete readings of the emails are that the SEC will crash into you. I like to think that decoding your last email has been assigned to a few committees and all of the summer interns
12:38	ThickAsThieves	i wonder how badly they even want to bother with sorting you out
12:39	benkay	if he straight up ignored the girl she'd probably go bonkers
12:39	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: Well if they are reading the logs, I would be happy to sort them out with the GPG and registering with the WoT
12:39	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37704 @ 0.00080693 = 30.4245 BTC [-] {3}
12:42	midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: that's hilarious. :-) Thank you for sharing with us your SEC interaction; I hope you continue to do so. For what it's worth, I am being sincere.
12:43	benkay	https://github.com/pierce403/keyhunter
12:43	mike_c	;;calc e ** (log(2.9)/6)
12:43	gribble	1.19417048496
12:44	mike_c	if difficulty increases stay this low, cap won't be a problem
12:45	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00080665 = 19.8436 BTC [-] {2}
12:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
12:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00081406 = 31.5448 BTC [+] {4}
12:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05497645 = 0.9346 BTC [+] {4}
12:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610012 = 0.1322 BTC [-]
12:51	nubbins`	http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/britain-reveals-new-12-sided-pound-coin-1.2578747
12:51	ozbot	Britain reveals new 12-sided pound coin - Business - CBC News
12:51	nubbins`	harsh portrait
12:51	mike_c	!t h mine
12:51	assbot	You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
12:51	mike_c	!t h b.mine
12:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK:B.MINE] 1D: 0.05250001 / 0.0542931 / 0.05710000 (152 shares, 8.25255158 BTC), 7D: 0.03960000 / 0.04840514 / 0.06902300 (1585 shares, 76.72214039 BTC), 30D: 0.03960000 / 0.05003398 / 0.06902300 (6430 shares, 321.71848642 BTC)
12:51	BingoBoingo	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522390.msg5777151
12:52	ozbot	MODERATORS OF THIS FORUM ARE DEFENDING BLOODY ZIONISTS
12:52	mircea_popescu	midnightmagic cheers
12:54	kakobrekla	cog thread is more fun
12:54	kakobrekla	fuckin gold with cherry on top
12:55	BingoBoingo	Cog is a little special
12:57	kakobrekla	so this ltc pump is driven by knc making scrypt asic
12:57	kakobrekla	or am i missing something
12:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05499998 = 0.33 BTC [+] {3}
12:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610004 = 0.1322 BTC [-]
12:57	BingoBoingo	Hard to tell, last night someone blamed the LTC rally on China
12:58	asciilifeform	possible that ltc market has become 'lightweight' enough to simply 'throw'
12:58	asciilifeform	or whatever the technical term for this is.
13:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.11950724 = 1.1951 BTC [-]
13:05	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo china is this beloved myth
13:06	mircea_popescu	like you know, messianic
13:06	BingoBoingo	Well, for most people most things are either myth or magic
13:07	BingoBoingo	One can spend all day imagine brains with an MRI tube without having the slightest idea about what Magnetic Resonance is.
13:08	mircea_popescu	"I don't get it. Why do you insist on making everyone think MPOE-PR is not MP? Why deceive your customers with something so trivial to figure out?
13:08	mircea_popescu	That's just weird."
13:08	mircea_popescu	win.
13:08	ThickAsThieves	best evidence i have is "last I heard from a chinese parent in my kids chinese class (which was maybe a few months back) in that in China EVERYONE was into litecoin."
13:08	mircea_popescu	i should take a bet for when this mpoe-pr = mp thing finally dies.
13:09	BCB	ballsy
13:09	BingoBoingo	bitcoinmagazine.com/11259/illinois-virtual-currency-and-the-transmitters-of-money-act/
13:09	ThickAsThieves	'New Slang For Unconfirmed Transactions? Dorians'
13:10	sheldonthomas	ThickAsThieves awesome
13:10	nubbins`	heh
13:10	nubbins`	man i've got this fuckin dorian stuck for days now
13:10	BingoBoingo	Shit might be useful if people announced things were happening today on a timeline with greater advanced notice than a single day
13:10	BCB	who runs this channel
13:10	nubbins`	gribble ;p
13:10	ThickAsThieves	the community
13:10	BCB	what's MP's handel
13:11	BCB	nick
13:11	nubbins`	guess
13:11	mircea_popescu	guess
13:11	mircea_popescu	damnit
13:11	ThickAsThieves	lol
13:11	BCB	mircea_popescu: ballsy
13:11	nubbins`	you owe be a beer
13:11	BingoBoingo	BCB: Generally kakobrekla runs the channel MP's handle is...
13:11	nubbins`	*me
13:11	mircea_popescu	my handle is a bar moustache
13:11	BCB	mircea_popescu: you command of the english language is impressive
13:11	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves haha splendid.
13:12	ThickAsThieves	"Today, however, founder Tim Sweeney is announcing a new business model: Epic will charge just $19 a month, and 5 percent of a game developer's gross revenue, for access to the complete Unreal Engine set of tools and even its source code."
13:12	mircea_popescu	BCB As the wolly-haired Melanasians of Papua, New Guinea once said, (Makes a series of clicking and popping sounds)
13:12	nubbins`	http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2015/
13:12	ozbot	BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015
13:12	nubbins`	does it usually take a while for initial bets to appear?
13:13	ThickAsThieves	yeah sometimes
13:13	nubbins`	i sent one along immediately after submitting the bet
13:13	nubbins`	ah, k
13:13	nubbins`	maybe waiting for confirms
13:13	benkay	(re: "who runs this": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMU_iwe6U)
13:13	mircea_popescu	yeah a block or so.
13:14	nubbins`	right-o
13:14	nubbins`	figured i'd sweeten the pot a bit
13:16	BingoBoingo	I still can't believe Illinois did not invite me to their hearing on Virtual currencies as an honored distinguished guest, and that news of it happening didn't even reach me until it is two hours too late to start driving and make it on time.
13:17	benkay	(specifically http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VBmMU_iwe6U#t=64)
13:21	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo clearly they're stonewalling you
13:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299998 = 0.365 BTC [+]
13:21	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Clearly.
13:21	nubbins`	[14:50:31] <Inkata> can anyone point me to a modern way to sign contracts? real-life contracts with crypto?
13:22	nubbins`	surely there's an article written on this, anyone got a title handy??
13:22	mircea_popescu	didn't bingo write something about that ?
13:22	BingoBoingo	Eh, Maybe I'll find out about Missouri's version of this thing in time. Jefferson city is a more pleasant drive than Springfield anyways
13:22	BingoBoingo	;;google the drinking record GPG
13:22	gribble	PGP/GPG Guide | Bingo Blog: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/pgpgpg-guide/>; Signature Thursday: Geany a GUI text editor for GPG tasks | Bingo ...: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/31/signature-thursday-geany-a-gui-text-editor-for-gpg-tasks/>; Contact and Credentials | Bingo Blog: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/>
13:22	mircea_popescu	nubbins` but otherwise you can just you know... show him a mpex contract
13:23	asciilifeform	depends on what you mean by 'real life contracts'
13:23	mircea_popescu	three years later they're still the standard in practice
13:23	BingoBoingo	;;google the drinking record digital signatures
13:23	gribble	Chapter 1B-26.003, Florida Administrative Code - Statutes, Rules ...: <http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/barm/rules/1B26_003FAC.cfm>; ELECTRONIC RECORDS; ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES - Legal ...: <http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/21/part-11>; electronic signature « Adobe EchoSign - Adobe Blogs: <http://blogs.adobe.com/echosign/tag/electronic-signature/>
13:23	asciilifeform	if your local princeling believes pgp to be the work of satan
13:23	asciilifeform	then you're stuck with strictly reputation-based contract
13:23	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what's the princeling to do with it ?
13:24	asciilifeform	in our applications, nothing at all
13:24	mircea_popescu	you can trivially print out gpg signed contracts, sign on the paper, and register them
13:24	mircea_popescu	gpg is backwards-compatible with all legal systems.
13:24	asciilifeform	sure, but in the 'microscope is backwards-compatible with hammer' sense.
13:24	mircea_popescu	not necessarily, it'd depend.
13:24	mircea_popescu	certainly ample space for that, sure.
13:24	asciilifeform	i vaguely recall that pgp 'counts' in the usa
13:25	asciilifeform	but, IANAL, and not sure how settled the case law is.
13:26	mircea_popescu	for what it's worth the opinions i have re likely romanian court reaction would be that should a signature be repudiated you have about 2:3 chances to get the judge to process the pgp part of the text.
13:27	asciilifeform	'Shall Be Delivered' (TM) has not yet played out in life, huh
13:27	mircea_popescu	not here anyway.
13:28	mircea_popescu	actual signature repudiations are rare irl
13:28	mircea_popescu	most cases are testamentary contestations
13:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2784 @ 0.00014332 = 0.399 BTC [-] {4}
13:28	mircea_popescu	in which case the judge'd definitely see through the pgp.
13:29	asciilifeform	arguably any case involving stolen btc could, theoretically, bake crypto-signature precedent
13:30	asciilifeform	('he signed it, so he's a you. now gladiators.')
13:30	mircea_popescu	very theoretically.
13:31	mircea_popescu	btc will pose some very srious problems to legal systems based on caselaw, perhaps enough so to make them unworkable in practice
13:31	mircea_popescu	this, however, is a head of the hydra burried for another two decades.
13:31	asciilifeform	meatspace courts are supposed to operate on principle of 'least astonishment' (someone cough up the right term plz) ?
13:31	asciilifeform	i think it was 'stare decisis'
13:31	asciilifeform	(sp?)
13:32	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Generally.
13:32	novusordo	until recently, I'd never visited trilema.com on a windows machine
13:32	novusordo	yesterday I did, and was quite disappointed
13:33	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah it's valid
13:33	novusordo	comic sans blog title.
13:33	asciilifeform	people don't seem to grasp the fact that the situation in 'shall be delivered' is as inevitable as that first street drunk who electrocuted himself in the 1870s (?)
		↖
13:34	asciilifeform	i recall reading that it caused great public wankage at the time
13:34	mircea_popescu	novusordo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-11-2013#392453
13:34	asciilifeform	'oh noez, wires of death'
13:34	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: But it took so much more electricity to electricute the first street drunk verus than the first idiot
13:34	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: ?
13:35	novusordo	mircea_popescu: yeah, I looked at the CSS because I thought it was a fall-back font
13:35	novusordo	nope
13:35	mircea_popescu	nope. if you have comic it'll show you you have comic
13:35	mircea_popescu	because apparently you like comic
13:35	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Ethanol is a crude anti-convulsant and is rather neuroprotective against these things.
13:35	mircea_popescu	who am i to argue.
13:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.053601 = 0.3216 BTC [-] {4}
13:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.067 = 0.402 BTC [+] {3}
13:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}
13:36	BingoBoingo	Then again the street drunk would need to be drunk to enjoy this protection
13:36	BingoBoingo	electrocuting someone in the throes of Delirium tremens wouldn't be sporting at all
13:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
13:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 47 @ 0.08 = 3.76 BTC [-] {2}
13:41	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0682 = 0.7502 BTC [-] {3}
13:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06811222 = 0.2724 BTC [-] {2}
13:43	mircea_popescu	carsam type in the lower box to talk
13:46	nubbins`	they should really note that somewhere on the page
13:46	jcpham	sexy hostmask
13:46	jcpham	carsam is sexy
13:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00081096 = 12.2049 BTC [-]
13:47	jcpham	except for webchat
13:47	jcpham	that's icky
13:48	nubbins`	http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2015/
13:48	nubbins`	there we go
13:48	benkay	carsam - lurking or confused? ;)
13:48	ozbot	BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015
13:49	nubbins`	hm, "house bet"?
13:49	mircea_popescu	kako broke bitbet.
13:50	nubbins`	bonus for me
13:50	nubbins`	(maybe)
13:50	BCB	mircea_popescu: I want to meet you when you come to New York.
13:50	BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Still prefer http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/?ref=1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4
13:51	nubbins`	house bet there too
13:51	mircea_popescu	bcb that may take a while.
13:51	nubbins`	free moniez
13:51	BCB	mircea_popescu: why's that?
13:52	nubbins`	uh, wait now
13:52	asciilifeform	BCB: would you personally travel to a place where there's a cork-lined cellar waiting for you?
13:52	nubbins`	that's actually not the bet i submitted
13:52	nubbins`	i said 2014
13:53	nubbins`	bet says 2015
13:53	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Is the cellar a wine cellar?
13:53	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: nope, the other kind.
13:53	nubbins`	the fuck?
13:53	BCB	asciilifeform: cork-lined - they are actually cement
13:54	asciilifeform	'endless war and endless underfeeding for the sake of war, slave populations toiling behind barbed wire, women dragged shrieking to the block, cork-lined cellars where the executioner blows your brains out from behind. So it appears that amputation of the soul isn't just a simple surgical job, like having your appendix out. The wound has a tendency to go septic.' (orwell's 'notes on the way')
13:54	kakobrekla	nubbins` it seems bet was altered by the mods
13:54	nubbins`	but i don't want that bet
13:54	kakobrekla	ha, who broke it now!
13:55	kakobrekla	but in all seriousness, ring mp
13:55	nubbins`	mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/propositions/ vs http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2015/ -- year changed from 2014 to 2015, what gives!
13:56	BCB	mircea_popescu: SEC will fly you on their private jet
13:56	mircea_popescu	nubbins` uh
13:56	asciilifeform	'latvia airlines' ? (or was it poland?)
13:57	mircea_popescu	BCB well cause i don't intend to visit the us till they dissolve the homeland security crap and put the people responsible on trial.
13:57	BCB	mircea_popescu: I don't think you'll have a choice in the matter.
13:58	Duffer1	lmao reminds me of some of the reddit comments about the trilema article
13:58	asciilifeform	the trial is about as likely as mr. putin personally hand-feeding preet bharara to bear
13:58	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform sucks for the us.
13:58	BCB	asciilifeform: they don't need a trial. Just and indictment
13:59	asciilifeform	(we don't even know if he leases the bear, or keeps it on retainer, or it lives in his bed)
13:59	mircea_popescu	BCB well so then how would we meed in this counterfactual future you propose ?
13:59	nubbins`	do mods often change bet conditions after money has been sent in?
13:59	nubbins`	or am i just lucky :D
13:59	mircea_popescu	nubbins` no.
13:59	mircea_popescu	you're just lucky.
13:59	BCB	mircea_popescu: I'd be standing in the crowd during your perp walk
13:59	Duffer1	more americans thoroughly unaware of their complete irrelevance
14:00	mircea_popescu	that works.
14:01	chetty	oct 2015 - thats more than 1 year ...
14:01	BCB	mircea_popescu: I'll have a pink carnation in my lapel
14:01	mircea_popescu	i;kk be sure to look
14:01	kakobrekla	i didnt know we support bets that long lel
14:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.00598635 = 0.7184 BTC [+] {2}
14:02	nubbins`	sorry guise D;
14:02	Duffer1	what have you done?
14:02	mircea_popescu	RUINED
14:03	nubbins`	created a time paradox
14:03	nubbins`	i just asked google what time it is and it says "yesternow"
14:03	nubbins`	i thought that was just the name of a miles davis song D:
14:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30121 @ 0.00081495 = 24.5471 BTC [+]
14:05	artifexd	Is it irony that #netsec was hacked?
14:05	mircea_popescu	it was ?
14:05	artifexd	Try and join it
14:06	mircea_popescu	nubbins` fixt.
14:06	BingoBoingo	I thought that was related to http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/03/19/1218252/full-disclosure-security-list-suspended-indefinitely
14:06	nubbins`	mircea_popescu: tyvm!
14:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00081541 = 26.2154 BTC [+] {2}
14:11	nubbins`	"I heard that Leah McGrath Goodman is writing an article that proves that "Mircea Popescu" is in fact Erik Voorhees."
14:11	nubbins`	heh.
14:11	nubbins`	are there any other OOP rags looking to make a comeback?
14:11	jborkl	mircea does not look good in red
14:11	BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Sauce?
14:12	nubbins`	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20sg7l/mp_was_approached_by_the_sec_about_bitcoin/cg6knxx
14:12	ozbot	AbsoluteZero2 comments on MP was approached by the SEC about Bitcoin exchanges; handled it very prof
14:14	BingoBoingo	Lol
14:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7408 @ 0.00081565 = 6.0423 BTC [+]
14:20	dexX7	someone here from http://satoshibox.com/? add the option to add a file hash/signature or whatever
14:22	dexX7	wow.. some people can turn everything into fud: "If you have ownership of BTC-denominated securities such as those traded on Havelock or MPEx (such as NEOBEE, S.DICE, S.MPOE, etc.) now would be a good time to talk to a lawyer."
14:22	kakobrekla	im good, bbet isnt mentioned
14:23	asciilifeform	i'm already signed up to be gassed at nsa, sec will have to wait in line.
14:23	mircea_popescu	nubbins` good one
14:25	dexX7	"Why is Havelock Investments in the SEC's crosshairs? I made an account with them, but never bought anything. Should I be worried?" "Can you get in trouble for just a few mBTC?" ...
14:25	mircea_popescu	...
14:25	dexX7	:D
14:25	dexX7	yup
14:28	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo fuckwit doesn't name names.
14:28	mircea_popescu	people need to grow up already.
14:28	BingoBoingo	Yeah
14:29	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I dunno if you've answered yet, but what are the plans for MP University? http://trilema.com/2014/fata-morgana-ii-or-dont-you-just-hate-it-when-you-come-up-with-an-idea-and-a-title-and-then-discover-you-need-an-introduction-which-keeps-swelling-so-eventually-youre-stuck-publishing-it-as-a-sta/
14:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 330 @ 0.00401153 = 1.3238 BTC [-] {5}
14:29	mircea_popescu	maybe. too much hassle so far, and who'd teach
14:30	asciilifeform	quite a few of us here could probably teach.
14:30	asciilifeform	better question - who'd learn.
14:30	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well, if you need a trained Librarian.
14:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform girls only, under 30, childless.
14:31	asciilifeform	lol
14:32	BingoBoingo	Ah, isn't that kind of the operation you are running atm?
14:32	mircea_popescu	allegedly.
14:32	asciilifeform	grls have this thing that they do, where they pretend to make you teach them maths, but they just pulsate
14:33	mircea_popescu	hm.
14:33	mircea_popescu	vagostabyl ?
14:33	asciilifeform	people teaching everything from number theory to marksmanship complain about this.
14:33	asciilifeform	lol
14:37	BingoBoingo	I've always wondered why more marksmanship classes aren't taught with a mirrored target
14:37	asciilifeform	people have said to me that my teaching anything would qualify as cruel and unusual punishment
14:37	mircea_popescu	This is actually a highly revealing exchange.
14:37	mircea_popescu	A revealing exchange about an exchange that isn't revealing?
14:37	asciilifeform	so perhaps i'll teach the penal battalion.
14:37	mircea_popescu	ahgagaga reddit delivers
14:38	mircea_popescu	well done dexX7
14:38	dexX7	hehe yw
14:38	mircea_popescu	"At least MP is an asshole equally to everyone, there is some amount of credibility in that."
14:38	mircea_popescu	i been sayin'...
14:40	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: cheap led vga projectors are common now, i imagine very soon you'll be able to project your face on the target at your local target lane.
14:41	mircea_popescu	i thought it was all about penile projection
14:42	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I'm kind of wondering why it isn't standard already. One's own face ought to offer better anatomical context at the range than those circles
14:42	asciilifeform	afaik nothing stops you from printing a self portrait and using that today.
14:48	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Getting the scale right, etc
14:48	mircea_popescu	"Based on the toxic and self righteous writing style, i'm pretty sure it's him. He would never admit it though, as the account has always made fun of anyone calling it a man."
14:48	mircea_popescu	hei guise, what the fuck does that toxic mean ?
14:48	BingoBoingo	"They were asking for voluntary cooperation. All he had to say was "no thank you." You can bet if they had any legal or authoritative standing they wouldn't be asking they'd be taking/demanding."
14:50	praeconium	Good evening, where do You get historical prices of various coins?
14:50	mircea_popescu	praeconium bitcoincharts.com maybe ?
14:50	mircea_popescu	at least for bitcoin.
14:51	dexX7	praeconium: maybe this http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/main/table
14:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53756 @ 0.00081523 = 43.8235 BTC [-] {3}
14:51	mircea_popescu	"Subject: These users are now making more money in 1 hour than in their 9-5 dead-end job" "What could you do with $106 an hour?" << my spambox rules.
14:51	benkay	BingoBoingo: class is always in session in -assets.
14:52	praeconium	mircea_popescu: thanks.
14:52	praeconium	Do You trade other coins? I know I am not in right channel..
14:52	mircea_popescu	i bought a little atc
14:52	mircea_popescu	but not really no.
14:53	praeconium	Is there a channel where people trading on quantitative models talk?
14:53	BingoBoingo	benkay: Sure, but for some a physical campus with ammenities like horsehair robes and doors locked from the outside can provide motivation
14:54	mircea_popescu	praeconium maybe #mtgox ?
14:54	jborkl	it is closed
14:54	mircea_popescu	i guess that didn't work out then
14:55	benkay	praeconium: try ##econometrics
14:55	dexX7	praeconium: ##econometrics seems to be the most "professional" one re: investments and bitcoin, about bitcoin trading talk there is #bitcoin-pricetalk + #bitcoinmarkets
14:55	benkay	bit trolly from time to time, but hey it's irc
14:55	dexX7	it's ##mtgox-chat
14:56	jborkl	that is closed and now is mtgox-talk
14:56	jcpham	people still talking about mtgox?
14:57	jcpham	is that a thing still
14:57	jborkl	no
14:57	mircea_popescu	why not just mtgox-cheat and be done with it
14:57	jborkl	mtgox-troll would be the best
14:57	praeconium	Thanks guys, I already got goxed so that was enough for now :)
14:58	mircea_popescu	praeconium kinda my point.
14:58	mircea_popescu	you're too early to trade on quantitative models.
14:58	praeconium	I am mainly interested to see how they go about acquiring hist and realtime data since there is so much variety.
14:59	praeconium	I am not really a quant, I know some basics and have knowledge of finance.. not so complex, tbh
14:59	jborkl	rtbtc was good, but the serviced gox and bitstamp
14:59	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.06694 = 1.0041 BTC [+] {2}
14:59	mircea_popescu	praeconium there was a guy by the name of herbi, doingsimilar things
14:59	mircea_popescu	but it's early yet, basically
14:59	praeconium	I used rtbtc, but they used mtgox API
15:00	jborkl	yeah, not any use right now
15:00	mike_c	historical data: http://api.bitcoincharts.com/v1/csv/
15:00	praeconium	mircea_popescu: but don't You think that many new ones will trade with similar patterns to old ones upon introduction or change of diffculty etc?
15:00	jborkl	btc-e has metatrader - I have not used it though
15:00	dexX7	there is a company that offers a quantitative model about btc (if that's the correct wording).. let me see, if i can find it
15:00	BingoBoingo	praeconium: Your best bet may be making #bitcoinquant then lurking here and directing interested people to your channels
15:01	praeconium	mike_c: thanks.
15:01	mircea_popescu	roughly speaking, the risk of the exchange goxing you is high enough that your quant profits are irrelevant
15:01	mircea_popescu	even should you get a model right.
15:01	mircea_popescu	which you won't likely, because it's a lot harder to predict turbulent flow than any one other thing
15:01	praeconium	Quant != high frequency
15:01	mircea_popescu	i am aware.
15:01	dexX7	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167431.0 + https://www.quantsig.net/#?&view=about
15:01	ozbot	Bitcoin Quant Modeling
15:01	nubbins`	you just need to build vestigial fly wingstubs into your model to account for turbulence
15:01	mircea_popescu	that said, more effort poured into that can't hurt anything
15:02	mircea_popescu	nubbins` note that they have sequenced the human genome, but haven't figured out the winglets.
15:02	praeconium	Random Walk is there, I don't look into getting model right :) I just want to implement my ideas.
15:02	mircea_popescu	"we could if we wanted to", obviously.
15:02	praeconium	Thanks dexX7
15:02	praeconium	Bingo, I am really a bit more into talking with existing crowd.. :) but nice idea.
15:03	praeconium	mircea_popescu: what do You think of indexing alts?
15:03	mircea_popescu	not ure what you mean by that ?
15:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8936 @ 0.000816 = 7.2918 BTC [+]
15:03	praeconium	On hybrid cap+difficulty models
15:03	mircea_popescu	afaik no serious work has been done on that so far at all.
15:03	mircea_popescu	i'd read it.
15:03	praeconium	Like FTSE100
15:04	praeconium	But mixing difficulty with capitalization
15:04	asciilifeform	'Aerodynamicist Theodore von Kármán died and went to heaven. In his registration packet was a bright orange ticket. Said Saint Peter, "You may get in line to ask God Himself one question." von Kármán ran to join the far end of the orange ticket queue. It was a long line, a *very* long line. Eons passed by and, sure enough, eventually in the distance he espied a giant glowing throne. More eons passed by
15:04	asciilifeform	and, finally, his moment arrived! von Kármán surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von Kármán spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'
		↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
15:04	mircea_popescu	lol
15:09	mircea_popescu	http://www.vnews.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=zqcnNXKR3mS1VoTbVLehlc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYv3CBjenOcpR_3UNwFQij16WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg
15:09	asciilifeform	mr. k ?
15:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 797 @ 0.00393491 = 3.1361 BTC [-] {10}
15:09	mircea_popescu	yeah
15:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00081206 = 56.763 BTC [-] {2}
15:19	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 130 @ 0.00388566 = 0.5051 BTC [-] {6}
15:20	BingoBoingo	Win https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg5788737#msg5788737
15:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.00385003 = 0.462 BTC [-] {5}
15:21	Shakespeare	soundtrack to that mark pic is Under Pressur
15:21	Shakespeare	e
15:21	Shakespeare	the whip covering his butcrack makes it look odd
15:22	mircea_popescu	lol
15:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10619 @ 0.00080651 = 8.5643 BTC [-]
15:23	Shakespeare	http://bitcoinmagazine.com/11300/bitcoin-namecoin-appear-draft-icann-report-u-s-plans-relinquish-remaining-control-internet/
15:24	Shakespeare	"The participants could then each do a standard algorithm to generate consistent state. This might seem like a fantasy, but Byzantine algorithms like Bitcoin [Andreesen 2014] and Namecoin show that such systems are possible today."
15:25	Shakespeare	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20tnqp/fake_blockchaininfo_twitter_account_has_27x_more/
15:25	Shakespeare	https://twitter.com/biockchain
15:25	ozbot	Blockchain.info (bIockchain) on Twitter
15:26	mircea_popescu	what bullshit is this quoting "andreesen"
15:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00013754 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {6}
15:26	mircea_popescu	the name is satoshi. who is this andressen
15:27	dexX7	i'm still wondering, if jimmothy is on mpex' payroll
15:27	mircea_popescu	maybe he's really mp ?
15:27	dexX7	maybe he is.
15:28	Shakespeare	is mp really mp?
15:28	dexX7	i sent him a bait some weeks ago, but he didn't take it
15:28	BingoBoingo	Maybe jimmothy is Thermos, or nefario?
15:28	mircea_popescu	Shakespeare on his better days.
15:28	mircea_popescu	or maybe he's just a random dork with no better entertainment options.
15:29	mircea_popescu	(last line in response to BingoBoingos comment, ftr)
15:30	BingoBoingo	Well, it is always important to point out this is the record
15:31	benkay	BingoBoingo is actually tiberiusxiv
15:31	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2208 @ 0.00080691 = 1.7817 BTC [+]
15:32	mircea_popescu	i thought tiberius was a girl.
15:32	BingoBoingo	benkay: What was his deal anyways. That's like the fifth person I've been accused of being this week.
15:32	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.60009616 = 9.6015 BTC [-] {8}
15:32	benkay	tiberius a girl?
15:32	benkay	hm
15:32	benkay	you'd probably know better than i.
15:33	benkay	BingoBoingo: just the best troll this channel has ever seen.
15:33	joecool	that would be luke imo
15:33	benkay	Luke-Jr?
15:33	joecool	yes
15:34	benkay	he's no troll - 100% authentic!
15:34	joecool	benkay: http://i.imgur.com/RFL8VHw.jpg
15:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.00080698 = 35.5071 BTC [+] {2}
15:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00384636 = 0.1154 BTC [-] {3}
15:36	mircea_popescu	let's move on :
15:36	mircea_popescu	http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3f7wg4g7s1qbn0f7o1_1280.jpg
15:37	Shakespeare	where's her risk-free sign?
15:38	mircea_popescu	at.... home ?
15:43	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3392 @ 0.00080707 = 2.7376 BTC [+]
15:45	dexX7	i give luke much credit. he may be a troll (it's only what i heard several times), but his pool is remarkable for the different transaction policies and the only one to push non-standard stuff..
15:48	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00380279 = 0.9507 BTC [-] {3}
15:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 758 @ 0.00379303 = 2.8751 BTC [-] {4}
16:04	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00375999 = 0.376 BTC [-]
16:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8258 @ 0.00081289 = 6.7128 BTC [+]
16:05	kakobrekla	dexX7 he did all sorts of scammy shit
16:05	moiety	mew all
16:06	kakobrekla	hi
16:07	dexX7	hi
16:07	mircea_popescu	hi kitten
16:07	moiety	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2014#564811 feck... you're not counting weird links and imgurs in this are you?!
16:09	mircea_popescu	lol
16:09	mircea_popescu	http://nypost.com/2005/08/23/naked-truth-post-exposes-overstock-ally/
16:09	ozbot	NAKED TRUTH – POST EXPOSES OVERSTOCK ALLY | New York Post
16:09	mircea_popescu	overstock is being fucked, who knew.
16:11	ninjashogun	very interesting article - http://jangosteve.com/post/380926251/no-one-knows-what-theyre-doing
16:11	ninjashogun	(you might have seen it on hackernews)
16:12	benderp	nonsense ninjashogun. a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.
16:12	moiety	"... has since opened TRG..." excellent! :/
16:12	ninjashogun	hi, benderp
16:12	benderp	mircea_popescu: more credence accrues every day to the notion that consumer organizations accepting bitcoin only do so as they begin to circle the drain.
16:13	moiety	lolol well put benderp - exemplified in here often :P
16:13	mircea_popescu	benderp 2005 article mind.
16:13	ninjashogun	benderp - suppose you removed everyone from the world who is not "competent". You would be left with nobody making your clothes, producing your food, building your highways, collecting your taxes, installing your Internet connection, or keeping any of the factories, buildings, schools, infrastructure, going.
16:14	ninjashogun	Most American teachers are "incompetent". Yet America has a near 100.00% literacy rate.
16:14	ninjashogun	Do not discount incompetent people.
16:14	moiety	thats ridiculous
16:14	moiety	absolutely ridiculous
16:14	benderp	fungible labor is fungible.
16:14	mircea_popescu	Dollar Shave Club @DollarShaveClub · 1h
16:14	mircea_popescu	Let's wipe out Colon Cancer. Mike, our CEO, is getting a colonoscopy & streaming it live. WATCH RIGHT NOW. #DSColon http://dlrshv.es/1blabla
16:14	ninjashogun	No, it's not ridiculous. By any definition of "competent" for which benderp's statement holds true (" a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.") it is absolutely true.
16:14	mircea_popescu	i would say this is the definitive example.
16:15	moiety	people can be competent at producing food, building things... all the things you said ninjashogun
16:15	mircea_popescu	dorks have their own shortener to paste their links about how a spurious ceo is ending cancer by shoving things up his butt live on cam.
16:15	mircea_popescu	it just doesn't go any further.
16:15	ninjashogun	no they can't. You just said only a vanishingly thin percentage of "everyone" is competent.
16:15	dexX7	workers = incompetent sounds like a rude prejudice
16:15	benderp	workers = fungible
16:15	moiety	prexactly dexX7
16:15	ninjashogun	1 min
16:16	benderp	ninjashogun: all the reading in the world, and look at the shitshow that's resulted.
16:16	benderp	i blame the incompetent teachers.
16:16	moiety	eww mircea_popescu no one wants to see that much of their or anyone else's boss
16:17	moiety	ninjashogun: imo, you get people competent and incompetent in every field. competence is not something that comes with status. There are plenty of incompetent management in the world
16:18	ninjashogun	I was just responding to benderp's statement
16:18	moiety	and im responding to yours
16:18	Perlboy	mircea_popescu, nice article http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/ just a slight comment "(unfortunately the Australian equivalent of the US SEC has been uniquely unhelpful in this matter so far).". Patrick Harnett appears to have a +64 number which would make him NZ :)
16:18	moiety	that;s going to happen when you hit enter in here
16:19	ninjashogun	moiety - fair enough. I should have been clear that I was being satirical, and not using my own definition of competent. I think basically 100% of people are competent at what they do.
16:19	mircea_popescu	Perlboy it's a complicated matter. nz people weren't nearly as obnoxious, but anyway.
16:19	moiety	please tell me that was also sarcasm ninjashogun
16:19	ninjashogun	I thnk a bunch of companies "suck" and are "idiots". I hate paypal and wish it would die. But I don't actually SAY that, or actually SAY they're incompetent.
16:20	Perlboy	mircea_popescu, yeah kiwi's are a bit more open
16:20	Perlboy	you were talking to asic?
16:20	ninjashogun	I'm not Icahn, there to criticize a $74B company (eBay) when he couldn't run a company any better.
16:20	mircea_popescu	anyway, not going to comment on that particular wrinkle further.
16:20	benderp	no, you're a budding Jobs, right ninjashogun?
16:21	ninjashogun	benderp - maybe a few years ago I would have said that ;-)
16:21	Perlboy	mircea_popescu, ok, nice article though i'm glad there's someone like you able to push back
16:21	moiety	;; lasers
16:21	gribble	┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
16:21	Perlboy	if i did such things in australia i'd start waiting for the black helicopters
16:21	ninjashogun	moiety - are there that many incompetent managers in the world though? Don't nearly all of them produce hte basic results they're there to do on some level?
16:22	Perlboy	ninjashogun, 99% of managers are a case of shit floating.
16:22	moiety	ninjashogun: yes. go work in a hospital or government agency. competence in your definition = arselicking and shagging someone higher up
16:22	davout	benderp: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52452135/A%20Lasting%20Inspiration%20(Disc%202).zip
16:22	mircea_popescu	people generally overrepresent the importance and power of corrupt government.
16:22	benderp	ah davout thou art a scholar
16:22	ninjashogun	Perlboy - you say that, but the 'shit' skils that let them 'float' are vitally important to the companies they're at. They do more for the mission than most lines of code that are written at most organizations.
16:23	davout	benderp: yo, brb, zipping some leonard cohen for mircea_popescu
16:23	ninjashogun	moiety - I've worked at government agencies. My God! The inefficiency. It was horrendous.
16:23	mike_c	ninjashogun you should expound on this topic at length on bitcointalk.
16:23	moiety	ninjashogun: yup 100% competent huh
16:23	ninjashogun	mike_c: I hope you're kidding?
16:23	mircea_popescu	davout are you trying to get me in trouble with the law ?
16:23	davout	haha
16:24	Perlboy	ninjashogun, no they are typically promoted either a) Because they stroked egos and didn't create any issues [or covered them up to people who would be concerned] or b) Were found to be incompetent but were stuck in the organisation so were promoted to a position where they couldn't fuck things up
16:24	moiety	i totally agree with mike_c i think it would be a really interesting good thread ninjashogun go for it
16:24	moiety	and please link us
16:24	ninjashogun	Very funny moiety. :)
16:24	mircea_popescu	can't tell if kitteh is trolling or youthful.
16:24	ninjashogun	Look, I know that on some level what you say make sense. For example, on some level Windows is completely broken in every single conceivable way and has had the opposite of architects working on it for the past thirty years.
16:24	moiety	;P
16:25	benderp	and yet ninjashogun those are the 'architects' out there in the wild, delivering value by your standards.
16:25	ninjashogun	But on the other hand, millions of people use Windows for hours every day, and have used it to run most aspects of the economy.
16:25	ninjashogun	Exactly!
16:25	ninjashogun	Yes, exactly my point benderp.
16:25	benderp	what was it asciilifeform was going on about?
16:25	moiety	jesus you are seriously gonna use windows as an example here?
16:25	benderp	der fuhrershitcake?
16:25	asciilifeform	?
16:25	ninjashogun	That WITHOUT sarcasm, in fact those architects (the totally incompetent windows ones) have built immense value over hte past thirty years.
16:26	benderp	it tastes great!
16:26	ninjashogun	moiety I think windows is a fair example because everyone here knows hte obvious ways in which it sucks :)
16:26	Perlboy	ninjashogun, true, but then it's been rewritten what, 4 times now (3.11, 95, XP, 8)?
16:26	moiety	asciilifeform! i used gribbles lasers! they were required
16:26	ninjashogun	moiety - windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders.
16:26	Perlboy	so it's the age old opportunity cost thing
16:26	davout	ninjashogun: you may be confusing value with technical debt
16:26	Perlboy	hack it together and we'll have to rewrite every X years
16:26	Perlboy	or do it right and evolve
16:26	asciilifeform	windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders << you'd be surprised.
16:26	moiety	i think its time to break out the alcohol or sanity pills or something
16:26	Perlboy	unfortunately microsoft isn't motivated to do something forever
16:27	asciilifeform	they include people who don't even work for ms
16:27	Perlboy	otherwise their upgrade would be less expensive (ie. apple mac osx :))
16:27	ninjashogun	davout - I don't think it's technical debt if it never needs to be fixed. Windows was never refactored onto a rock-hard Unix base with proven open technology stacks. Nor will it ever be. You can't call it debt if you're never going to do it.
16:27	asciilifeform	like ceo of 'green hills software' (favoured son contractor who sells a proprietary embedded os for military hardware)
16:27	asciilifeform	and the Official Party Line of usg is... wait for it...
16:27	ninjashogun	Another example is ATM's that run Windows. On some level that is such an obvious display of incompetence that it should make most people here shiver.
16:28	davout	ninjashogun: just because you're never going to repay it doesn't change the nature of a debt, it's still a debt
16:28	asciilifeform	that winblows is 'certified secure' because it has fine-grained access permissions.
16:28	ninjashogun	Most people, that is, except for the millions of people using them to withdraw money.
16:28	Perlboy	umm, so, there's nothing wrong with windows being used for all banking applications
16:28	ninjashogun	davout - that's silly :) The term "technical debt" is an analogy, i.e. you get features now but at a commitment of future time. If that future time is not a real commitment, then there is no actual debt involved.
16:29	Perlboy	just make sure you price in a few hundred firewalls
16:29	moiety	ninjashogun, dear, when you begin by talking about incompetence of managers and people that make food... you cannot really switch to a whole company that is comprised of millions of them. #consistency
16:29	ninjashogun	davout - just like, if you make a bracelet out of pyrite, you do not have the "debt" of whatever it would take to re-make in Gold. You just have a pyrite bracelet.
16:29	Perlboy	which fwiw you'd have to have anyway regardless of os
16:29	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform hahaha what
16:29	davout	ninjashogun: sounds like a point
16:29	ninjashogun	davout - on the other hand if your prototype is pyrite and you're prototyping a gold bracelet (the way many startups prototype an MVP then intend to build scallability) then it can be considered a "debt".
16:29	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: seriously, winblows is mandatory, and that's the 'reasoning'
16:30	asciilifeform	used by usg
16:30	davout	ninjashogun: except if you're considering the expense of time required to switch useful applications to better OSes
16:30	Perlboy	Yeah, i know at least one bank that has moved to 100% Windows.
16:31	ninjashogun	davout - that is true. I think Microsoft isn't selling that migration path though :)
16:31	ninjashogun	Perlboy - what do you mean "100%"?
16:31	Perlboy	and they just replaced their core banking with windows+mssql end to end
16:31	Perlboy	ninjashogun, every system, windows.
16:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform very lol.
16:31	ninjashogun	Perlboy, their servers?
16:31	ninjashogun	Perlboy, their web page?
16:31	Perlboy	ninjashogun, all of it.
16:31	davout	ninjashogun: it can be debt in the sense that they have to keep backwards compatibility up to some level
16:31	ninjashogun	Perlboy, their safes?
16:31	moiety	ninjashogun: 100%
16:31	moiety	even i get what he means
16:31	Perlboy	ninjashogun, all of it. :)
16:32	davout	ninjashogun: for the rest there's mastercard
16:32	moiety	lololol
16:32	ninjashogun	davout - that is a fairer example. Their backwards compatibility is a 'debt' because they are actually taking it on as a commitment. It's clearly a slightly lower debt than they would have if they had a goal of creating a real operating system like Unix and BSD's
16:32	Perlboy	microsoft basically dropped their pants license wise.
16:32	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}
16:33	davout	ninjashogun: "improving their OS" and "creating a new solid OS" sounds like a difference in degree, not in kind
16:33	ninjashogun	davout - I don't necessarily call backwards compatibility "improving their OS". In fact, in many cases compatibility and objective improvement are at odds.
16:34	davout	ninjashogun: precisely because of tech debt
16:34	ninjashogun	davout - yes.
16:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00080757 = 40.9438 BTC [-] {3}
16:34	ninjashogun	davout - but you can't just call it debt if they're not going to do it. For example, the fact that Python 3 isn't source code compatible with Python 2 isn't technical debt that they're postponing. It's a design decision.
16:35	moiety	youre definately the loudest ninja i have ever met!
16:35	davout	ninjashogun: no, it's defaulting on debt, which can make sense :D
16:35	ninjashogun	moiety - hey man I just posted a link :-D
16:36	moiety	the forum??
16:36	ninjashogun	No, to an article. I didn't comment on it.
16:36	ninjashogun	I linked to - http://jangosteve.com/post/380926251/no-one-knows-what-theyre-doing
16:36	moiety	ok? i did see you linked that
16:37	mircea_popescu	(Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...)
16:38	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu, that is very interesting.
16:39	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu, you can also see a lot of that in Apple computers. For example, they are supposed to be very "easy to use" (yet are expensive). But this hides the fact that a lot of people use it to run accounting software that's also dumbed down to their level, and a load of similar extra-expensive things that let them manage their lifestyle. It's becaues they make enough money to buy Macs and to buy expensive dumbed-do
16:39	ninjashogun	wn software - but not enough to hire full accountants and managers to do the same work!
16:40	benderp	uh
16:40	ninjashogun	if you look at mac software ,a lot of it is aimed at letting people do things that ordinarily you would hire a professional for, and not at a professsional level.
16:40	benderp	everyone i know who can afford a macintosh pays an accountant if they're not on salary, ninjashogun.
16:40	benderp	what are these professional things the macintosh consumer software enables?
16:40	ninjashogun	benderp - it may have been a bad example. I mean if you survey the software that's specifically targeted at Mac users.
16:40	ThickAsThieves	<mircea_popescu> (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...) /// Nonsense.
16:40	moiety	ninjashogun: ok ok i clicked and i give up on any article that begins: "have you ever felt like......"
16:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32647 @ 0.00081309 = 26.5449 BTC [+] {2}
16:40	benderp	can you provide an acceptable example?
16:41	ThickAsThieves	it happened because visual design became a blue collar job
16:41	ninjashogun	Yes, let me look.
16:41	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves do tell ?
16:41	mircea_popescu	in the 20s ?!
16:41	ThickAsThieves	no one was thinking about dusting
16:41	deadweasel	moiety: i think that's a good rule
16:41	ThickAsThieves	oh i thought that was you talking
16:41	asciilifeform	afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay $20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line bash script on an ordinary computer
16:41	ThickAsThieves	it's quote from the 20s?
16:41	mircea_popescu	yes, it was me talking about the 20s.
16:41	ThickAsThieves	or just referring to 20s style
16:41	mircea_popescu	well yes.
16:42	ninjashogun	http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401329,00.asp has a list (sorry about hte overlay)
16:42	ThickAsThieves	simplicity is in vogue now too
16:42	ninjashogun	the top one is a good example. Dreamweaver.
16:42	ninjashogun	Who uses dreamweaver?
16:42	ninjashogun	And why?
16:42	mircea_popescu	true true, not very well introduced.
16:42	mircea_popescu	http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheRoaringTwenties < sauce.
16:42	benderp	<asciilifeform> afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac
16:42	benderp	users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay
16:42	benderp	$20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line
16:42	benderp	bash script on an ordinary computer
16:42	ozbot	Main/The Roaring Twenties - Television Tropes & Idioms
16:42	mircea_popescu	benderp omfg you derp you
16:42	ThickAsThieves	if anything, it's certainly cheaper to make simple stuff
16:42	benderp	yeah derpin hard
16:42	ThickAsThieves	rather than frilly
16:42	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, that is EXACTLY my point. Exactly that.
16:43	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, that they pay EXTRA but becuase they're not actually having someone competent do it.
16:43	ThickAsThieves	mostly the expense comes into play when they choose expensive smooth surfaces
16:43	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, they pay extra for a GUI, instead of enough for someone to do it properly.
16:43	ThickAsThieves	but hey if they scratch, that makes them consumable!
16:44	asciilifeform	and then there are the poor schmucks who just want a portable posix box that mostly works.
16:44	*	asciilifeform measures dust thickness on apple laptop
16:44	moiety	so mircea_popescu, ThickAsTheives, can we conclude modern day styling is getting more minimalistic and less decorative because people are lazy/no servants/no time?
16:45	mircea_popescu	moiety i would say in present day considerations shoving the items is more of a concern
16:45	ThickAsThieves	i wont say it has much to do with servants
16:45	mircea_popescu	as the dollar shave "ceo" clearly illustrates
16:45	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu, I missed your dollar shave example, what was it?
16:45	ThickAsThieves	i'd add to the list too
16:45	*	moiety nods
16:45	ThickAsThieves	for example, where do you find people to make intricate wood carvings?
16:45	mircea_popescu	even the cars look increasingly more like they came out of a vulva.
16:46	ninjashogun	:)
16:46	ThickAsThieves	mass production is a huge influence
16:46	ninjashogun	There is actually one take-away from the above insights that mircea_popescu 's quote led to here.
16:46	moiety	even more of a side note -- i think it's a real shame loosing the individuality and decorativeness of design :( cars is a good example!
16:46	deadweasel	my Vulva is diesel 240
16:46	mircea_popescu	but they had mass production for a century
16:46	mircea_popescu	moiety yeah now everyone makes porsches, from bmw to mercedes.
16:46	ninjashogun	It seems for the bitcoin device that you guys were building (asciilifeform) the real money is in making it SO dumb that the user doesn't have to understand how bitcoin, signing, or a wallet works.
16:47	ThickAsThieves	right but havent things become more about cutting costs as time passes?
16:47	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: who said i was involved in making a bitcoin-related anything?
16:47	ThickAsThieves	they are literally cutting the edges
16:47	ninjashogun	so if you could make it so dumb that the user just thinks of it "as a wallet" with "bitcoins in it" and takes it out to spend from it.
16:47	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves actually it became feasible to extrude complex conical surfaces.
16:47	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I thought that the signing thing was a natural step away from an offline wallet?
16:47	moiety	mircea_popescu: and they are so ugly. what ever happened to aston and jaguar
16:47	mircea_popescu	better cnc etc
16:47	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: i think you have the wrong address. that'd be 'trezor' et al.
16:47	ThickAsThieves	3d printing may bring a psuedo-rennaisance
16:47	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, wouldn't your embedded device be used at some point as an offline wallet that you can connect?
16:48	ThickAsThieves	but i doubt it
16:48	moiety	ThickAsThieves: i think you might be right but i feel only at a trinket level?
16:48	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, okay. I was talking about that USB thing that escrows your private key. I know you only said it was about private keys - but most users don't know what that is.
16:48	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: i might theoretically, at some point, make something that fits this description, but the current product has nothing to do with bitcoin or wallets
16:48	ThickAsThieves	well theyll get bigger
16:48	ThickAsThieves	look at the german car thing in the news today
16:48	ThickAsThieves	sec
16:48	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, okay.
16:48	ThickAsThieves	http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/edag-3-d-printed-car/
16:48	ozbot	The Germans Have Figured Out How to 3-D Print Cars | Autopia | Wired.com
16:48	moiety	thanks ThickAsThieves
16:48	ThickAsThieves	i dunno how the fuck they can that a car
16:49	ThickAsThieves	but at least it's a hull
16:49	daybyter	Carrera cars? ^^
16:49	ThickAsThieves	call*
16:49	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I was just thinking how mircea's current insights would imply that that is what you could actually sell to dumb users for a huge markup (e.g. $199), since they know what a leather wallet is and know that bitcoins are money. and that's it.
16:49	moiety	jesus christ, where do you even sit
16:49	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: this is catastrophically misguided.
16:49	ThickAsThieves	in the vulva
16:49	moiety	LOL
16:49	ThickAsThieves	:)
16:50	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, ok. I'm not saying you'd need to pursue it. Just like I'm not saying you should build a shiny gui on a Unix utility and sell it to mac users for $49.
16:50	ThickAsThieves	old school art deco did offer many intricate work too yknow
16:50	benderp	ninjashogun: if you can't be bothered to respond to private conversations that you start, I don't see why I should arse myself to respond to your PMs.
16:51	moiety	lol "inspired by a turtles skeleton" -- i have *always* thought of beautiful cars when viewing turtles
16:51	thestringpuller	asciilifeform do you believe there is a hardware hole in most mobile devices?
16:51	ThickAsThieves	i always thought car design moved much too slowly
16:51	thestringpuller	like for rng?
16:51	moiety	bahaha and *theres* the connection!
16:51	ThickAsThieves	i dont understand why more concept cars arent produced
16:51	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots.
16:52	moiety	remember the alfa concept they just produced one of for the boss
16:52	ThickAsThieves	serving idiots will age you
16:52	benderp	mo users, mo problems.
16:53	asciilifeform	fundamentally different problems. ones which only the folks with the cattle prods are properly equipped to handle.
16:53	ThickAsThieves	idiots also suck all the joy out of a task
16:53	benderp	asciilifeform: link the goats again!
16:54	asciilifeform	benderp: ?
16:54	asciilifeform	goats?
16:54	asciilifeform	http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Futurama_740ef3_1220967.gif
16:55	benderp	with the bells
16:55	ninjashogun	benderp, sorry!! I was very interested in your response, just a bit delayed. I'm doing a few different things.
16:56	asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEnz9CaJqTY
16:56	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, link to "see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots." ?? This is about the opposite of what I've always heard.
16:56	asciilifeform	(about 10 min. long, so you need an attention span)
16:56	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I've always heard that if you make things for idiots, you will always have a huge market, since most people don't use most technologies.
16:57	ThickAsThieves	dafuck language are you spekaing?
16:57	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, so for their purposes, it might as well not exist. For example, for the purposes of most people in the world, bitcoin doesn't actually exist (theyu can't buy it at a western union currency exchange, or know how to install software for it.)
16:57	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, so if someone were to create something idiots could (actually) use then it would be (for them) as thought only it existed. Apple often does this and practically claims competing technology doesn't even exist.
16:59	ThickAsThieves	last night a couple asked me the easiest way to buy bitcoin, I said Coinbase, you just need to enter your checking account info, and the wife was all, I'm not putting my checking account info in some website!
16:59	ThickAsThieves	i was like, dont you buy stuff online all the time?
16:59	ThickAsThieves	yeah but can i just buy them with PayPal?
16:59	ThickAsThieves	etc
16:59	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: 'Honest toil not so much, but honest cunning aplenty in this fabled subsection of the population, the offensively stupid poor. The costs of the strategic mistake of dealing with them are huge. Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations com
16:59	asciilifeform	petent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or whatever they’re called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, they’ve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to
		↖
16:59	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, what did you say?
16:59	asciilifeform	obstruct vision, living arrangements all thought through and everything.' (mp's http://trilema.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga)
16:59	mircea_popescu	paypal is not a website, and the government is not some twerps.
17:00	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, thank you for that link. I actually completely agree with it.
17:00	ThickAsThieves	i told her i wouldnt sell to them because theyd still need a wallet anyway
17:00	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I guess I had a different market in mind, not the true bottom third of the Pyramid of society.
17:01	ThickAsThieves	bitcoin really isnt for the masses
17:01	ThickAsThieves	i told her to buy FIG
17:01	ThickAsThieves	i also told them not to do anything i said
17:02	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, I'm not sure why bitcoin can't be for the masses. A wallet is an extremely close analogy with a physical wallet. The only major difference is the history. Isn't it?
17:03	ThickAsThieves	the difference really is that transactions are final
17:03	ThickAsThieves	without an Undo, idiots cant manage
17:03	ninjashogun	But this is true with a wallet as well. When you hand someone cash you don't expect to be able to unhand them that cash.
17:03	ThickAsThieves	who uses cash?
17:03	mircea_popescu	there's undo in mountain dew ?
17:03	deadweasel	do the undo
17:04	mircea_popescu	;;google undine
17:04	gribble	Undine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine>; Undine (novella) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine_(novella)>; Undine (alchemy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine_(alchemy)>
17:04	ninjashogun	So we've identified two differences (1) transactions are final (2) there is a history of transactions somewhere. Is there anything else that would be a conceptual hurdle for everyone using bitcoin?
17:04	mircea_popescu	(the first nymphlet to drink piss)
17:04	ninjashogun	I mean as an analogy for a physical wallet with cash in it.
17:05	ThickAsThieves	like i said, you are comparing the wrong thing
17:05	ThickAsThieves	common man doesnt use cash for much of note
17:05	ThickAsThieves	they use debit/credit cards
17:05	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, I understand this.
17:05	ThickAsThieves	or PayPal
17:05	ThickAsThieves	etc
17:06	FabianB	in US
17:06	ThickAsThieves	indeed
17:06	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, but why such a strong statement above? "bitcoin really isnt for the masses"
17:06	FabianB	90% cash here
17:06	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00375616 = 0.2254 BTC [-] {3}
17:06	ninjashogun	I would very humbly suggest that in the long term it might be.
17:06	bitcoinpete	i'll just quietly leave this here: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/there-is-no-bitcoin-2-0/
17:06	ThickAsThieves	common man also cant figure out to not open exe files from their email
17:06	mircea_popescu	FabianB where's that again ? japan ?
17:06	ninjashogun	unless there is some inherent conceptual hurdle that people can't understand.
17:06	bitcoinpete	;;later tell benkay thanks for the inspiration!
17:06	gribble	The operation succeeded.
17:07	deadweasel	ninjashogun, explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some.
17:07	FabianB	mircea_popescu: that was a personal statement, not country statistics
17:07	deadweasel	you'll find the hurdles
17:07	ThickAsThieves	^
17:07	ninjashogun	deadweasel - I think i have some insight on this.
17:07	FabianB	mircea_popescu: but probably true for jp, korea and china, more or less
17:07	deadweasel	stop thinking then
17:07	mircea_popescu	i use cash only too.
17:07	ThickAsThieves	as you probly think you do about most things
17:07	ninjashogun	deadweasel, the major hurdle is that people who don't do forex don't normally talk of 'buying' currency. That's the only hurdle. Specifically:
17:07	deadweasel	no
17:07	mircea_popescu	did in the us, also. never had a problem with it, contrary to what people say
17:07	deadweasel	stop
17:08	ThickAsThieves	mp, but for the things you use cash for, would you ever use bitcoin instead?
17:08	ninjashogun	deadweasel, it doesn't make much sense to say "I bought $100 with my used bike." It feels wrong. But it's accurate.
17:08	FabianB	andd germany is still more cash than credit cards as well
17:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00081557 = 11.051 BTC [+]
17:08	deadweasel	honestly, i can't follow your ramblings at present, ninjashogun, how could you possibly explain it to a newbie?
17:08	mircea_popescu	turns out you can rent hotel rooms w/o credit cards just fine. provided you wear a suit and your gangster roll is larger than the receptionists' penis
17:08	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves not really.
17:09	deadweasel	^
17:09	ninjashogun	deadweasel, sorry I wasn't clear enough. The difficulty with 'buying' a currency is that people don't think of 'buying' a dollar, or euro, or pound. It's a difficult concept for most people. People think of using currency, not buying it.
17:09	ThickAsThieves	in this way i think it's unwise to use normal cash wallets as the intro to noobs
17:09	mircea_popescu	maybe.
17:09	mircea_popescu	the jury in my head is out on the entire topic of bitcoin-backed ccs
17:09	ninjashogun	deadweasel, so if you were to say, "I bought $100 with my bicycle" it would - as you point out - sound like incoherent ramblings. It should be written, "I SOLD my bike for $100".
17:09	ThickAsThieves	it's much more akin to your onlin banking username and password
17:09	mircea_popescu	maybe they work, fuck knows. let people try.
17:09	ThickAsThieves	except that your online banking has Undo
17:10	moiety	I'm struggling with weighing up the frustration:lulz in relation to the ignore function
17:10	ninjashogun	so as soon as people starting talking about "Buying things with bitcoin" then it's pretty obvious how it works.
17:10	deadweasel	ninjashogun, i seem to have lost you completely. but i know one thing, the last time I thought I had some insight on bitcoin I asked everyone here. turns out i was wrong.
17:10	FabianB	i sell euro if i want rmb to get around in china
17:10	moiety	well done for managing this far deadweasel
17:11	deadweasel	ditto!
17:11	ninjashogun	deadweasel - what's wrong with the answer to your question "explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some" - bitcoin is just a currency like euros or pounds, except you don't need to involve banks, it works more like cash. If you want to buy something in pounds (let's say you visit London) you get some pounds at an exchange (using dollars). if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you get some bi
17:11	ninjashogun	tcoins (using dollars).
17:12	ThickAsThieves	this is also why i find those BigFoot bitcoin brochures so out of touch
17:12	ThickAsThieves	they make zero effort to actually initiate a new user
17:12	asciilifeform	bitcoinpete: i wish people didn't spread messianic exaggeration re: cardano. it isn't a Final Solution, just intended to be a little oasis in the desert.
17:12	ninjashogun	That would be the normal answer to the question you just stated....
17:12	deadweasel	Cardono, TM, secures your btc and burns your jews, automatically!
17:12	asciilifeform	lol
17:13	deadweasel	Cardano*
17:13	asciilifeform	'throw transport down the well, so yer country can be free!' (sasha baroncohen)
17:13	ninjashogun	Normal users, for reasons we can appreciate, would then proceed to buy bitcoins if they had something they wanted to buy in bitcoins. (And only then.) This is currency working as it should.
17:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50474 @ 0.00081576 = 41.1747 BTC [+] {3}
17:13	mircea_popescu	can anyone explain to me why clikcion on pete's link in note 5 http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/there-is-no-bitcoin-2-0/#fn-197-5
17:13	mircea_popescu	leads one to a random trilema page ?
17:13	deadweasel	ninjashogun: the mental hurdles people put up for themselves are far higher than the small mental hurdles you have bounded to understand it.
17:13	deadweasel	it = btc
17:13	mircea_popescu	meh sorry i mean note 6 not 5
17:13	ninjashogun	deadweasel - okay. So what happens when YOU explain bitcoin to a newbie?
17:14	mircea_popescu	and petey i liked note 3.
17:14	deadweasel	ninjashogun: I don't
17:14	mircea_popescu	exactly what good art is.
17:14	ThickAsThieves	mp, did yo edit the url at some point?
17:14	deadweasel	i wait for them to fucking beg me to explain it
17:14	ninjashogun	deadweasel ...
17:14	ThickAsThieves	or maybe it's cuz a 301 plugin
17:14	ThickAsThieves	in WP
17:14	deadweasel	ninjashogun: this is not jesus
17:14	ninjashogun	deadweasel, now you've lost me :)
17:14	ThickAsThieves	ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things
17:14	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves no, that's the beauty of it : http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/
17:14	ThickAsThieves	as no one sells things only for bitcoin
17:14	mircea_popescu	that leads to the proper article
17:15	deadweasel	ah ty, i wish I could grep your blog
17:15	mircea_popescu	he fucked up the url somehoiw but i can't tell how.
17:15	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, that's not true. Some people uses bitcoin to buy some things. if that weren't true, Tiger Direct wouldn't accept htem.
17:15	ThickAsThieves	i found the problem
17:15	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, I mean I get what you're saying about investors/speculators - but it has actual users of it as currency as well.
17:15	ThickAsThieves	his link has %E2%80%8E after it
17:15	deadweasel	they don't accept them and less than 1% of their biz is btc. they let Coinbase or Paybit or whatever do it
17:15	mircea_popescu	o fuck right you are
17:15	mircea_popescu	wd!
17:16	ThickAsThieves	no ninja you dont get what i'm syaing
17:16	ThickAsThieves	yes people spend bitcoins
17:16	ThickAsThieves	no shit
17:16	ninjashogun	deadweasel - fair enough, but I was just addressing "ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things" - though to be fair ThickAsThieves probably meant to say that as a generalization, which is true.
17:16	deadweasel	ya
17:16	ThickAsThieves	but they dont BUY the specifically to buy things
17:16	ThickAsThieves	them*
17:17	ThickAsThieves	they buy them to speculate
17:17	ThickAsThieves	then maybe they buy things
17:17	ThickAsThieves	there are some exceptions
17:17	benderp	the thing with the people who buy things with bitcoins, is that eventually they will run out of bitcoins.
17:17	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves what about silk road and questionably legal things? Didn't people buy btc specificially for those uses?
17:17	moiety	otherwise ninjashogun people would be buying exact amounts for their purchases to get the best conversion
17:17	ThickAsThieves	for example, you can only get MPEx account with BTC
17:18	ninjashogun	moiety, why would exact amounts be the best conversion?
17:18	ninjashogun	moiety, due to the spread?
17:18	ThickAsThieves	SR is an exception, not the common motivation to buy btc
17:18	ThickAsThieves	it also doesnt exist
17:18	ninjashogun	I get that, sure.
17:18	moiety	i mean as in, what would be the point in having leftovers if you were only buying it to buy something else
17:18	mircea_popescu	sr is still a thing ?
17:18	deadweasel	nope
17:18	deadweasel	darknetmarkets pop up and down on a weekly basis
17:18	mircea_popescu	not that it ever was much of a thing, but for the sake of lulz.
17:18	deadweasel	hacked, doxxed, whatever
17:19	ninjashogun	Oh....if in all the above you guys meant "you're not going to explain bitcoin Qua Investment to a newbie, and then get them to buy bitcoin" then that's probably true :). I wasn't thinking of it as an investment just then.
17:19	ThickAsThieves	right, no reason to trust in tormarkets anymore
17:19	ThickAsThieves	probly many people simply kept their contacts
17:19	jborkl	http://crypto-comics.com/comic6.html
17:19	ThickAsThieves	and buy direct
17:19	ninjashogun	moiety - the reason for leftovers is because you might want to buy something else as well? People generally exchange more currency than they will immediately spend, and keep the change to spend on other things.
17:19	benderp	ninjashogun: another challenge is the backup and restoration problem.
17:20	moiety	nvm
17:20	benderp	ninjashogun: the rational thing for long term btc holders is...
17:20	deadweasel	benderp: yeah, low hanging fruit, I should have started there.
17:20	benderp	to hold btc.
17:20	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's a thing in the sense communism is 'a thing' - folks will keep trying
17:20	ninjashogun	benderp - yes, probably. Do you think an offline wallet device that just knew its own balance (and displayed it continuously), had no backup or restore functionality, would ease this portion of the hurdle?
17:21	benderp	ninjashogun: how could an offline device know its balance?
17:21	deadweasel	slightly, but only for the already technically advanced
17:21	ninjashogun	benderp, my statement was regarding backup and restoration problems.
17:21	mircea_popescu	more like in the sense nerd sex is a thing, but yeah
17:21	benderp	no but no
17:21	moiety	ok, imma just head off to get a BTC to keep for my 2014 lipgloss purchases .. and perhaps an eyeliner, should i need one brb
17:21	benderp	how is an offline wallet going to know its balance?
17:21	benderp	ninjashogun: ^^
17:21	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: let's work through this. how do you propose the wallet machine is to be communicated with?
17:21	asciilifeform	let me guess. dedicated piece of pc software.
17:21	benderp	over wifi!
17:21	benderp	it's sekyure, doncha no.
17:22	ninjashogun	I don't know how an offline wallet will know its balance. For example, if it stays offline and the account receives a transfer for someone, how will it get updated?
17:22	ninjashogun	from someone*
17:22	ThickAsThieves	it couldnt "know" its balance, but it could sync it
17:22	ninjashogun	I just know that conceptually an offline wallet is probably hte easiest thing to understand.
17:22	moiety	speaking of nerd sex, karpeles actually once tweeted about how being a nerd in japan was much better as he had talked a japanese chick into marrying him lol
17:22	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: please take the time to learn something about how btc actually works
17:22	ninjashogun	ThickAsThieves, so, conceptually, it would have to be "Ooops, I was wrong." until it syncs.
17:23	ThickAsThieves	it could sync by scanning a bar code
17:23	*	moiety wonders if he bought her with magic game cards
17:23	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, ok. However I'm trying to approach this from the point of view of a user.
17:23	benderp	ThickAsThieves: don't encourage him.
17:23	ThickAsThieves	:)
17:23	deadweasel	moiety: black lotus for a pink lotus!
17:23	deadweasel	or yellow lotus?
17:23	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: from the point of a luser, a mercedes runs by dwarves under the hood turning a crank.
17:23	moiety	lolol!!!
17:23	ninjashogun	The issue then would be that the only conceptually accurate device hte users could think of like a physical wallet, would have to be hot all of the time.
17:24	asciilifeform	if you want to discuss a hypothetical device, you must approach from the standpoint of the builder.
17:24	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, very fair statement.
17:24	deadweasel	ninjashogun: we could use toe warmers?
17:24	moiety	ninjashogun: all you need now is chip'n'pin for bitcoin and youre all set!
17:25	asciilifeform	the only reason anybody even dares to talk about 'hardware wallet' today is that he's weaseled out of the task of building the hard part
17:25	ninjashogun	hmmm.
17:25	ninjashogun	what do you think of moiety's suggestion? Here is what he's talking about - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN
17:26	benderp	even moiety's in on the game now
17:26	asciilifeform	that'd be something like 'trezor'
17:26	ninjashogun	So in this sense the physical bitcoin 'wallet' would be a smart card with a PIN. It would NOT know its balance. However, people are very used to this mode of money use.
17:26	asciilifeform	all this does is store keys
17:26	asciilifeform	the luser is still relying on a pc to actually crank the protocol
17:27	asciilifeform	either his own, or some charlatan's remote box
17:27	benderp	hardware wallets are actually more complex and a greater pain in the ass. users must understand transactions, how to generate one, how to sign one, and how to transmit one.
17:27	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, yes, if you moved trezor into the form factor of an ATM card with a PIN, and using the same technology - then it would be interesting.
17:27	benderp	interesting!?
17:27	ninjashogun	then its readers would be connected to the bitcoin network instead of to a bank network.
17:27	benderp	interesting over useful?!
17:27	ninjashogun	both.
17:28	asciilifeform	'atm using btc' is old hat
17:28	ninjashogun	I mean if you took Trezor and made it look like an ATM card, by shrinking it down to the same chip size. (chip and pin)
17:28	asciilifeform	what is the point of this?
17:28	asciilifeform	all you'll get is angry idiots who stuff it in an ordinary atm
17:28	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, we were discussing what it would take for everyone to understand and use it :)
17:29	asciilifeform	use it where ?!
17:29	asciilifeform	might as well make it thin and cylindrical, to stuff up arse
17:29	deadweasel	what if you get stuck in an island prison for life with your autistic friend?
17:30	deadweasel	you'll need that feature
17:30	moiety	sorry i just finished facedesking
17:30	moiety	ninjashogun: that was in no way, shape or form a serious comment. my apologies.
17:31	deadweasel	http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070511/
17:31	ozbot	Papillon (1973) - IMDb
17:31	moiety	chip'n'pin shouldnt exist for fiat ffs
17:32	benderp	.bait
17:32	ozbot	http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m00z84bPzr1qzr53co1_1280.jpg
17:32	benderp	.bait
17:32	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lupgq6GTAG1qzr53co1_1280.jpg
17:32	ninjashogun	brb
17:32	benderp	.bait
17:32	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2grsvAZ3P1qzjc1ro1_500.jpg
17:32	asciilifeform	afaik chip & pin is still a crock of shit quite like traditional magstripe (i.e. it doesn't use crypto challenge/response but a fixed secret)
17:32	Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: well
17:32	Diablo-D3	you're looking at the problem wrong
17:33	Diablo-D3	magstripe is 70s tech
17:33	Diablo-D3	pin and chip is 80s tech
17:33	Diablo-D3	what we want is 90s tech
17:33	benderp	plain ol gpg should suffice
17:33	benderp	don't see what all the rush is about
17:34	asciilifeform	discussion was about classical fiat bank cards
17:34	asciilifeform	where the vendors actually have a strong incentive to permit some fraud
17:34	moiety	umm #2 please for me benderp
17:35	moiety	i think we should use gpg for everything, everywhere, all the time
17:36	*	asciilifeform goes to boil some tea using gpg
17:38	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, it was more on the smart chips in some atm cards.
17:38	joecool	asciilifeform: *but* does it lock out after too many failed attemps?
17:38	joecool	*attempts
17:39	ninjashogun	I think that's a very good idea, moiety, and if you targeted the chip'n'pin form factor (looks like a card) sold with a networked home reader, you could sell them as a plug-in solution to merchants. I'm not 100% sure how card processing works, but it may be possible to piggy-back on that system and let merchants use it as though it were card, meanwhile the back-end processor (your company?) or an intermediate networked de
17:39	ninjashogun	vice, is on the bitcoin network.
17:40	asciilifeform	pray tell, why does it need to look like a card?
17:40	moiety	ok i may have been a little enthusiastic there.. BUT you cannot deny if you were offered gpg tea or normal tea, you would ask for gpg tea
17:40	asciilifeform	moiety: i'm about to drink some as we speak.
17:40	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, it needs to look like a card because that's how people were tricked into using a more secure system before. :) (specifically, chip'n'pin)
17:40	moiety	ninjashogun: i have no words. learn about how card processing works first?
17:40	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, it's more secure to use chip'n'pin because the card info isn't sent in the clear.
17:40	ninjashogun	moiety - tell me.
17:40	moiety	asciilifeform: please tell me you heated it with lasers
17:41	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: if you'd like to trick people, you've the wrong address
17:41	moiety	ninjashogun: i don't believe that's my place to do so
17:41	moiety	you have eyes
17:41	joecool	well i'm already using chip and pin openpgp
17:41	joecool	:)
17:41	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I meant it (obviously) as a metaphor. Chip'n'pin works totally differently on a fundamnetal architectural level, from a card with a magnetic stripe.
17:42	joecool	http://www.g10code.de/p-card.html <
17:42	ozbot	g10 Code - Smartcard
17:42	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, if you took the architectural advantages of a chip'n'pin, and had it in a different form factor (not a card) then people wouldn't have started using it.
17:42	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: anyway, take this to the 'trezor' folks, not me. i've personally no interest in manufacturing 'lukewarm wallets.'
17:42	ninjashogun	:) :)
17:42	joecool	asciilifeform: have you looked at yubikey neo yet?
17:42	moiety	your metaphors and sarcasm are very clear... a few lines later ninjashogun (yawn)
17:43	Apocalyptic	is trezor still a thing ?
17:43	ninjashogun	this has been an interesting conversation. Yes, it's not easy to manufacture. I don't know how much those chips do when powered on but I doubt it's enough to do whatever a lukewarm wallet would need to.
17:43	joecool	Apocalyptic: as much as BFL is
17:43	ninjashogun	moiety - I'll work on it :).
17:44	asciilifeform	one of the things people refuse to understand about 'yubikey' et al is that miniaturization of the keychain/card variety is fundamentally antithetical to genuine security.
17:44	moiety	meh we can handle it, i'd work on listening first
17:45	ninjashogun	fair enough.
17:45	asciilifeform	for instance, where in the keychain could one stuff an analogue rng, auditable with the naked eye and oscilloscope ?
17:45	asciilifeform	its shield?
17:45	asciilifeform	etc
17:45	ninjashogun	but a combination of both does wonders. I would say we hit on several key insights in this conversation - that are also actionable. It might be very hard to make a reality, but at least we know the market is there.
17:46	moiety	it's also made it clear, you don't actually read the logs
17:46	asciilifeform	the market for cold fusion is also there.
17:46	thestringpuller	!last m s.mpoe
17:46	assbot	Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00081576 BTC [+]
17:46	asciilifeform	and for philosopher's stone.
17:46	mike_c	wait for it.. here's the part where he asks for funding.
17:46	joecool	i'm not that Joe
17:47	thestringpuller	wow looks like there will be some interesting things in the logs
17:47	thestringpuller	amazing
17:47	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
17:47	joecool	^^^^^
17:47	ninjashogun	asciilifeform - anyone who has an oscilloscope would not have to use a naked eye :) You can expect someone to have a magnifying lense ($0.50) if they have an oscilloscope ($100)
17:48	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, nobody here (or anywhere) has any architectural insights on making the philosopher's stone, or cold fusion, a reality.
17:48	moiety	not yet mike_c he got distracted
17:48	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: homework. determined the cost of, starting with nothing but idle hands, personally determining exactly what your 'yubikey' does.
17:48	asciilifeform	in sufficient detail to build a second.
17:48	*	moiety takes out her monacle - amidoinitwrong guise?
17:48	mircea_popescu	moiety i'd take green tea
17:48	mircea_popescu	and it's a monocle
17:49	moiety	aww :( failme have some green [secure] tea
17:49	ninjashogun	mike_c - No, I don't have any interest in building a device like that. The only way it would be feasible for a single person who has not made a substantial exit in another company, is if it were strongly patentable. Idon't think it is.
17:49	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller what specifically ?
17:49	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: what part of this crap do you imagine is patentable?
17:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.006 = 0.78 BTC [+]
17:50	asciilifeform	and in what pesthole country
17:50	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I just told you, none of it is patentable.
17:50	moiety	asciilifeform: Atlantis?
17:50	asciilifeform	glad that you understand at least this.
17:50	mike_c	ascii, are you patenting anything for snsa?
17:50	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, for example mircea_popescu could probably build a physical card that is a "lukewarm wallet" as you put it, he would have the funds, but I don't think he could get his R&D investment back - it would be money thrown away.
17:50	asciilifeform	not so much as a shoelace.
17:51	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, because he could not patent it to protect his R&D research into it. It's a somewhat tough problem due to the very very fine sizes involved, and also the need to have a very low cost of goods if oyu are going to sell it as a plastic cafrd. There's no model that I can think of that would support this.
17:51	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: sarcasm so nothing in particular
17:51	moiety	mircea_popescu: random side note, have you had white tea?
17:51	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521371.0
17:52	mircea_popescu	moiety yeah. i've had all sorts of tea once at some sort of "all sorts of tea event" in greenwich village
17:52	kakobrekla	i will not admit that.
17:52	ninjashogun	:)
17:52	mike_c	because you don't think the IP is the important part of things, or some other reason?
17:52	mircea_popescu	it's ~==== php isntit.
17:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00081119 = 20.807 BTC [-]
17:53	moiety	mircea_popescu: i hear it's not very nice... a tea event sounds pretty cool though, to me
17:53	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: you were just told why a 'security' gizmo in the shape of a card is inescapably worthless. care to disagree? or do you even read replies at all
17:53	kakobrekla	no further comments on the subject were made. everyone lived happily ever after.
17:53	mircea_popescu	moiety the cleavage was spectaculay. oodlebunches of starving aspirational chicks wearing their friends' only designer outfit.
17:54	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, that tone isn't very conducive to development of anything. Not that I care.
17:54	mircea_popescu	o shit, i meant spectacular. i guess i... slipped ?
17:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00081529 = 25.3963 BTC [+] {2}
17:54	asciilifeform	ok, patiently explaining:
17:54	asciilifeform	take your yubikey, etc. and disassemble it
17:54	asciilifeform	what's inside?
17:54	moiety	s'ok i didn't notice cus i was wearing my monacle not my monocle
17:54	mike_c	trilema seems silent on the topic of patenting IP
17:54	joecool	asciilifeform: magic
17:55	mike_c	that must be the only topic i've ever looked for that it was silent on :)
17:55	mircea_popescu	mike_c http://trilema.com/2009/nu-exista-proprietate-intelectuala/ http://trilema.com/2009/despre-proprietatea-intelectuala/ http://trilema.com/2010/proprietatea-intelectuala/ http://trilema.com/2012/nemuritorul-afanti/ etc
17:56	mircea_popescu	you just don't read the right languages :D
17:56	joecool	damn that didn't take long
17:56	joecool	mircea_popescu: are you a bot?
17:56	wilimprex	asciilifeform: most importantly the card sw is cloused source and access to sdk is under nda
17:56	mircea_popescu	joecool i am a transcend.
17:56	asciilifeform	ok here we go
17:56	asciilifeform	http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4747398370_f53198b421_b.jpg
17:56	mircea_popescu	which is worse than a bot
17:56	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I don't like to say it but it's "just" a single-board module around a microcontroller that is a usb device
17:56	asciilifeform	ok, now what's inside the micro ?
17:56	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, (I don't think this is a good use of the word "just"). But it answers your question regarding what is inside.
17:57	asciilifeform	i mean, you can certainly describe it in encyclopaedic terms.
17:57	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, flash memory some ram, processor...
17:57	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, what are you getting at?
17:57	asciilifeform	what would it cost you to determine exactly what the micro does
17:57	asciilifeform	and whether it matches what is printed on the box ?
17:58	Diablo-D3	[05:56:32] <asciilifeform> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4747398370_f53198b421_b.jpg
17:58	Diablo-D3	wtf is that
17:58	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: you mentioned a chinese manufacturing contact. ask him. he'll tell you an exact cost, in the currency of your choice.
17:58	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, you oculdn't determine exactly what the micro does with any amount of money short of a multimilion dollar lab, but if you make reasonable assumptions (such as commodity components not being a highly engineered replacement) you can verify its operation for <$100 in equipment.
17:58	asciilifeform	in usd it'll be 5-6 figures.
17:58	ninjashogun	sure, yes.
17:58	ninjashogun	I agree.
17:58	asciilifeform	now why would i wish to buy this product?
17:59	ninjashogun	? The product you linked? So that it escrows your secret and your secret doesn't make it to a file on your PC or your PC memory...
17:59	ninjashogun	(or whatever it does that is equivalent)
18:00	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: it is trivial to design a crypto-whatever with malicious trapdoor
18:00	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, yes, I agree with you.
18:00	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, what is your point exactly?
18:00	joecool	Diablo-D3: xray of a yubikey neo i'm guessing
18:00	asciilifeform	joecool: yes
18:01	Diablo-D3	joecool: ahh
18:01	asciilifeform	joecool: trying to explain to ninjashogun why a crypto-gizmo like yubikey is fundamentally braindamaged
18:01	mike_c	geez, the article is in romanian and french? what's a poor american to do.
18:01	ninjashogun	do you know what that circular thing is in the middle of the xray you posted? (showing leads at 10 o'clock and 12 o'clock position)?
18:02	asciilifeform	the toggle switch.
18:02	ninjashogun	ok
18:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00609996 = 0.2196 BTC [+] {3}
18:02	asciilifeform	(i thought you owned one of these, it's clear if you do)
18:02	ninjashogun	no I don't own one.
18:02	asciilifeform	ah ok
18:02	wilimprex	asciilifeform: any not open sourced hw/sw is not worht entrusting your data/secrets
18:03	asciilifeform	correct.
18:03	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, okay look I get that it's kind of braindamaged. ATM cards are also inherently extremely braindamaged - and loads of people have been ripped off by card swipers, false things they put their card into that is in front of a real ATM.
18:03	mircea_popescu	mike_c date a foreign slut, it won't kill you.
18:03	joecool	asciilifeform: with that being said do you feel the same way about the openpgp smartcard?
18:03	mircea_popescu	well... not in a big way anyway
18:03	mike_c	it won't kill me, but my wife will.
18:03	asciilifeform	likewise, open source is not enough.
18:03	asciilifeform	as described here:
18:03	asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1299
18:03	ozbot	Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
18:03	asciilifeform	it has to be a system that an interested, moderately-educated user might be able to... understand.
18:04	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know it strikes me how much pr/social media you're doing these days
18:04	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i'm probably just being successfully trolled
18:04	ninjashogun	The existence of this: https://www.google.com/search?q=atm+card+skimmer proves that ATM's are architecturally braindead. If a vulnerability vector like this existed even in theory, it would invalidate use of ATM's at foreign, unknown locations.
18:05	asciilifeform	joecool: no reason why the above doesn't apply to the gpg smartcard.
18:05	ninjashogun	it means it's a braindead architecture. it shouldn't be possible.
18:05	ninjashogun	That doesn't mean that ATM's aren't MASSIVELY useful, even though they are a flawed architecture.
18:05	ninjashogun	http://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/atm-skimmer/page/2/
18:05	ozbot	atm skimmer — Krebs on Security
18:06	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: trying my hand at doing the kind of thing you do - enlightening stone age man
18:06	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to work terribly well. perhaps my hands simply don't grow from the correct place.
18:06	mircea_popescu	you don't have my tools, it's kind of like watching someone build bridges with a hammer
18:06	mircea_popescu	not that it can't be done
18:07	moiety	it's nothing to do with you asciilifeform, some people are unenlightenable. *sips encrypted hotchocolate*
18:07	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if you'd love to take over this 'customer' i'll be happy to sit back and watch.
18:07	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, I find some of what you have said useful. I wouldn't adopt the tone of enlightening a stone-age man, as I have a lot of experience in several areas that also make my background interesting. we can simply have a conversation you know :)
18:07	joecool	mircea_popescu: nice burn
18:08	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: because my dosimeter is just about maxed out now.
18:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00609997 = 0.1769 BTC [+] {3}
18:08	mircea_popescu	eh what's the rush.
18:08	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, you've brought up good points about drawbacks to a mass-adoption card that is a lukewarm bitcoin wallet accepted directly by merchants. You are right, and htose are real.
18:08	mircea_popescu	time is an essential ingredient.
18:08	mike_c	ok, i think i got the jist: IP isn't real. IP has little to do with the success of the company. It's all about management. close?
18:08	mircea_popescu	mike_c F.
18:08	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu :)
18:09	mike_c	damnit.
18:09	mircea_popescu	the problem with trilema article is that they really don't have any gists
18:09	mircea_popescu	the details are more important than the actual article.
18:09	mike_c	details get quite mangled through google translate
18:09	mircea_popescu	i know.
18:09	mircea_popescu	well maybe the usg open sources its english translations/summaries of romanian t articles
18:09	mircea_popescu	eventually.
18:10	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu, I was very highly impressed by the way in which you funded your site, and I was interested in your thoughts on a funding model I am working on for the jobs website that I mentioned to you earlier. (Based on a back-end skills graph that knows that, for example, C# is close to C++ and Java, but very far from embedded electronics design.)
18:10	ninjashogun	The following is what I was thinking:
18:10	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 107 @ 0.00612908 = 0.6558 BTC [+] {3}
18:10	ninjashogun	(and I would love to hear your thoughts.)
18:10	moiety	mike_c: nao it comes
18:11	ninjashogun	So, the site is going to accept profiles from people (similar to LinkedIn). This sets up a chicken-and-egg problem because people would only upload a profile if htere is something in it for them, and in the beginning there owuld not be a big value proposition on the site.
18:12	moiety	would they not upload in the hope of getting a job?
18:12	ninjashogun	not in the beginning (I mean during the weekend-launch period!)
18:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 859 @ 0.00614249 = 5.2764 BTC [+] {4}
18:12	ninjashogun	If I put an MVP I code in a weekend online, and put it on hackernews and maybe reddit, it would not have profiles in the beginning.
18:12	ninjashogun	and it would not have job ads in the beginning. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.
18:13	benderp	ninjashogun: how did mircea_popescu fund his site?
18:13	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 168 @ 0.00619989 = 1.0416 BTC [+] {2}
18:13	ninjashogun	benderp - I thought I read that he took a large BTC investment, for one thing.
18:13	ninjashogun	So I would solve this via another fact. People, especially highly technical people, know that if "you are not paying for a product, you ARE the product".
18:14	Apocalyptic	mircea , https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265277.msg5786637#msg5786637
18:14	benderp	wrong again, ninjashogun.
18:14	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 400 @ 0.00619997 = 2.48 BTC [+] {2}
18:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00081407 = 1.0583 BTC [-]
18:14	ninjashogun	benderp - I'm sure mircea_popescu can correct me if it's relevant
18:14	Apocalyptic	it's wasn't humiliating enough to get hacked & lose all funds, but now they came with the IDEA of an btc insurance company
18:14	mircea_popescu	lol
18:14	TomServo	ninjashogun: you could correct yourself by just reading a little.
18:15	Apocalyptic	seriously this shit is too good
18:15	mircea_popescu	such original, much trust well splendid.
18:15	ninjashogun	So, the idea is that the first 500 qualified profiles (full name, highly technical with CV, and in a major market - e.g. San Francisco, New York, London) - would get a 2.5% fully diluted equity in the company. The next 1500 profiles get 2.5%. And the following 8000 profiles get 5%.
18:15	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 48 @ 0.00619999 = 0.2976 BTC [+]
18:15	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299897 = 0.365 BTC [+]
18:15	benderp	if it's only going to take a weekend, ninjashogun, go do it and stop yammering.
18:15	Apocalyptic	I think you've written a trilema article on that in 2012 or 2013
18:16	ninjashogun	so rather than raise a traditional angel round of investment, you directly pay for the users, who "know" they are the product, to upload. Having 10,000 senior, lead, etc, technical profiles, is worth a substantial amount for the company, as well as enabling b2b deals etc.
18:16	TomServo	Sorry, I've been away a while - are we still going on about the social media rape whistle?
18:16	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 55 @ 0.00624362 = 0.3434 BTC [+] {2}
18:16	mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic i tihnk so to, but why read when one could have ideas
18:16	ninjashogun	benderp - it doesn't just take a weekend. Part of what I'm doing is the ideation portion. For example I'm soliciting mirceau's feedback on just one aspect right now.
18:16	mircea_popescu	(on which i also wrote, but w/e, writing is overrated)
18:17	mircea_popescu	TomServo we're mostly doing buffett now.
18:17	ninjashogun	benderp - I would have to be very very lucky to get an MVP up in a weekend; I'd have to know exactly what I would want on it, and it would have to be very limited scope.
18:18	TomServo	mircea_popescu: that sounds much better. More since the bitbet and your "new era" article?
18:18	benderp	ninjashogun: luck?
18:18	mircea_popescu	nah, about that.
18:18	benderp	ninjashogun: i begin to understand your grasp of software development.
18:18	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu, so the idea is that people know that there is a small chance they have an opportunity to invest at an early stage in the next "monster.com", and this would be a small incentive to upload their profile for some equity.
18:18	mircea_popescu	lookin at shit like http://bitbet.us/bet/712/bitcoin-difficulty-over-5-6b-before-april/#b84 i'm really curious if we're going to see a ~20k btc bet if come next year btc is still derping around 500 and berkshire is ~250l
18:20	mircea_popescu	also, http://25.media.tumblr.com/825d7bea9d134c86281c70de284be9cf/tumblr_mrab9er6mi1qh70jeo1_1280.jpg
18:20	dexX7	i don't get it? why did you mark this bet?
18:20	jurov	dexX7 it got highlighted auto
18:21	mircea_popescu	dexX7 people are making 10 btc bets on a 170/9 btc pool with 10k diff
18:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00081119 = 6.5301 BTC [-]
18:21	mircea_popescu	No pays: 1.01721766 BTC
18:21	dexX7	ah
18:21	mircea_popescu	a 1% is apparently within the market granularity.
18:22	dexX7	yea, got it
18:22	Apocalyptic	"Something like that needs to be done! We must counterattack and find the criminals who do this kind of theft!
18:22	Apocalyptic	Otherwise, the altcoin and bitcoin world is going to fall apart! Who will want to have unsafe coins?"
18:22	Apocalyptic	the thread keeps on delivering
18:22	benderp	mircea_popescu: pits and tits!
18:23	mircea_popescu	benderp if anyone was curious to see how the bega looks.
18:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.0062764 = 1.2553 BTC [+]
18:23	benderp	your dog?
18:23	benderp	your bitch?
18:24	kakobrekla	his pit.
18:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00634499 = 0.1269 BTC [+] {2}
18:24	mircea_popescu	nah, i don't have a dog.
18:24	benderp	hers?
18:24	mircea_popescu	its just a babieh yet
18:25	benderp	babby puppieeeeees
18:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.11950724 = 1.0756 BTC [-]
18:25	mircea_popescu	also, bawling
18:25	mircea_popescu	http://24.media.tumblr.com/38137ba3e59166a3a43dbae9924e89dd/tumblr_mr7baspVZg1rztzruo1_1280.jpg
18:25	dexX7	http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/20/bitcoin-is-the-new-paypal/ slightly related to "scammers kill bitcoin".. half of it is about the beginning of paypal and the troubles they faced
18:25	ozbot	Bitcoin Is The New PayPal | TechCrunch
18:26	mircea_popescu	tech crutch. read all about how you don't need to really understand anything about new tech.
18:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 182 @ 0.0063977 = 1.1644 BTC [+] {3}
18:27	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07299897 = 0.584 BTC [+]
18:28	benderp	i think i'll be getting my babe and my pit another puppy here soon.
18:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 168 @ 0.00639999 = 1.0752 BTC [+] {2}
18:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
18:28	mircea_popescu	that came out a little...
18:30	benderp	yeah?
18:31	jurov	http://www.welivesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/operation_windigo.pdf
18:31	ThickAsThieves	i these articles that take so many words to say something you'd see in a tweet
18:31	ThickAsThieves	hate*
18:31	jurov	tl;dr: 25k linux servers used as botnet, access gained using stolen passwords
18:31	ThickAsThieves	Paypal was and is a target for scammers and hackers, bitcoin is too! better have good security!
18:32	dexX7	haha yea, that's the tltr
18:34	mircea_popescu	tl;dr : things happen in ways things happen, it's very important to either this or the other and make sure you brush your tits in the morning.
18:34	jurov	and check your balls
18:35	jurov	The first thing that stands out when looking at the data is the average length, which is much longer
18:35	jurov	than we expected. The average length is
18:35	jurov	11
18:35	ThickAsThieves	hmm so the new Bitcoin "Core" allows payment requests
18:35	jurov	.
18:35	jurov	09
18:35	jurov	characters, a lot longer than the
18:36	jurov	7
18:36	jurov	.
18:36	jurov	63
18:36	ThickAsThieves	cant wait for scammers to game that
18:36	jurov	characters average
18:36	jurov	found in the LulzSec leak, which was
18:36	jurov	analyzed
18:36	jurov	in
18:36	jurov	2011
18:36	jurov	. This most likely reflects the fact that system
18:36	jurov	administrators are more conscious about the importance of strong passwords than the average
18:36	jurov	Internet user.
18:36	ThickAsThieves	stahp!
18:36	jurov	ooh sorry
18:37	mircea_popescu	i think we should institute a 1 bitcent fine for unseemly behaviour
18:37	mircea_popescu	to be voluntarily sent to teh donations address
18:37	ThickAsThieves	we should also have a bitcoin judgement system
18:37	Neil	.d
18:37	ozbot	4.250 billion | Next Diff in 939 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.3854% in 5d 21h 25m 29s
18:38	ThickAsThieves	oh wait
18:38	Neil	;;prevdiffchange
18:38	gribble	11.38694
18:38	jurov	was that 17 lines? guess i'm sending 0.17btc as donation then
18:38	mircea_popescu	jurov per instance not per lines
18:38	ThickAsThieves	or 1sat per line
18:38	mircea_popescu	too dusty
18:38	ThickAsThieves	whichever is greater
18:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15852 @ 0.00081407 = 12.9046 BTC [+]
18:38	mircea_popescu	dude if someone pastes 10k lines...
18:38	TomServo	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyD3pomSxko
18:38	ozbot	Charlamagne Doesn't Care if White People Say N-Word - YouTube
18:39	ThickAsThieves	we can back tax ninjashogun
18:39	mircea_popescu	he'd have to have btc first.
18:39	TomServo	mircea_popescu: you might appreciate that, he may even be a reader
18:39	mircea_popescu	TomServo i thought he was dead ?
18:39	TomServo	could be, I wouldn't know
18:39	mircea_popescu	;;google charlemagne
18:39	gribble	Charlemagne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne>; Charlemagne - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com: <http://www.history.com/topics/charlemagne>; Charlemagne (Holy Roman emperor) -- Encyclopedia Britannica: <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/106546/Charlemagne>
18:40	TomServo	around 2:00 is the more relevant piece
18:40	TomServo	or the beginning I should say
18:41	mircea_popescu	o it's standup
18:41	mircea_popescu	drug war veteran lol
18:41	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61887799 = 1.2378 BTC [+]
18:43	mircea_popescu	the blood argument is incredibly weak. there's a shitton of blood on "romanian", doth not make it particularly unusable.
18:47	diametric	https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428
18:47	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so you got me reading the adventures of the 14th waffen grenadiers, which resulted in much amusement at the freitag guy
18:47	diametric	better not produce any yellow measurement devices.
18:48	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: lol
18:53	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00391 = 0.1955 BTC [+]
18:59	moiety	mircea_popescu: Live action versions now available! http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/15/a-naked-woman-jogs-down-a-busy-london-high-street-and-its-all-caught-on-camera-4588995/
19:00	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.00081382 = 36.6626 BTC [-] {3}
19:01	mircea_popescu	moiety good for you
19:01	moiety	thanks, the photo tours gave me the idea
19:02	Neil	Glass beads going for $600 a piece
19:02	benderp	blow stamps to be had for cheap
19:02	benderp	;;ticker
19:02	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 611.98, Best ask: 611.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 611.99, 24 hour volume: 6981.71545735, 24 hour low: 605.11, 24 hour high: 623.95, 24 hour vwap: 613.150833954
19:02	mircea_popescu	Neil are they on a string ?
19:03	benderp	can we buy them already in a butt?
19:03	Ghaleon	what is the best route for a startup to go public btc style?
19:03	benderp	list on cryptostocks
19:04	mircea_popescu	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-19/gambling-website-s-bitcoin-denominated-stock-draws-sec-inquiry.html
19:04	benderp	oh ho ho garzik's slipping protobufs back into bitcoin
19:05	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.0038 = 0.4902 BTC [-]
19:06	moiety	http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs17/f/2007/216/d/d/Japanese_Chin_puppy_by_Lena_Lou.jpg i would like one of these, but unsure if actual dog or just cat that can bark
19:07	mircea_popescu	lol
19:10	benderp	horrible creatures
19:11	mircea_popescu	i'd be curious in what happens if they fuck a rabbit
19:11	dexX7	what does the sec want with the user data etc.? i'm wondering, if this is about the sale of sd, btc stocks in general or an investigation about some fraud going on etc..
19:11	mircea_popescu	dexX7 they don't want to say, apparently.
19:12	mircea_popescu	people have been pointing to "clash of cultures" discussing this, and its true
19:12	mircea_popescu	but the real clash isn't "you wanna phone me ? get on irc"
19:12	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: might as well ask the buggers to skip straight to kissing the ring (tm)
19:12	dexX7	they may not want to say it, sure. but what do you think about it? any guess?
19:12	mircea_popescu	the clash of cultures is between the ankylosis of old bureaucratic paperwork and contemporary digital openness
19:13	mircea_popescu	i somehow can pursue bitcoin fraud quite in the open. the sec can not. why not ?
19:13	mircea_popescu	well... it doesn't have the people, the brains, the training or the intellectual culture.
19:13	asciilifeform	or the incentive.
19:13	mircea_popescu	this obviously will have to chance, and this obviously will change. it's just that a number of otherwise well meaning people didn't even know they had this problem until last month
19:13	ninjashogun	I'll pay your backtax on unseemly behavior (along with my apologies). I have a better grasp of the channel dynamics here.
19:13	mircea_popescu	dexX7 well on what basis would i think about it. i have no idea.
19:14	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the incentive it does have. it's more effective, more effectual and cheaper. that's really the eos.
19:15	mircea_popescu	dexX7 maybe the sale was fictitious. maybe erik had the wrong kind of friends, a la shrem. maybe shrem was his wrong kind of friends. who the hell knows at this point.
19:16	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: to the extent sec exists for some actual purpose, that purpose includes infesting the btc world with whatever plagues can be conjured up, not extinguishing them
19:16	mircea_popescu	maybe they're honestly just trying to understand wtf is going on. i could sorta see if i was in that position i'd go fishing like this. why not.
19:16	asciilifeform	it's an arm of the beast
19:16	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how do you know this ?
19:16	benderp	ninjashogun: you also owe me 5btc for my time this afternoon ;)
19:16	mircea_popescu	i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but how would you know ?
19:16	asciilifeform	because it is a fruit of the poisoned tree (fdr/'newdeal')
19:17	mircea_popescu	but even so.
19:17	mircea_popescu	this view requires it be too perfect a fruit.
19:17	mircea_popescu	just because her name is lilith does not know she knows how to suck cock, you know ?
19:17	mircea_popescu	does not mean*
19:18	asciilifeform	you might as well imagine that 'fda' exists For The Good of The People
19:18	Ademan	asciilifeform: some people believe that
19:18	Ademan	s/some/many/
19:18	mircea_popescu	there's a lot of space between "exists for the good of the people" and "was spawned by the devil and is making him proud"
19:18	mircea_popescu	it could just... yoiu know... sorta suck, sorta limp along as best it can...
19:18	ninjashogun	benderp 5 btc for an hour seems a bit steep :) that's $3000 per hour or a daily rate of... $24,000 - or a monthly rate of... $600,000.
19:19	mircea_popescu	i mean, normal people have normal kids, from down syndrome to superclever.
19:19	ninjashogun	benderp - I would go to monthly billing, it's probably psychologically easier to justify :)
19:19	Ademan	mircea_popescu: I got a good chuckle out of your correspondence with the SEC, bravo.
19:19	mircea_popescu	the devil only has superclever kids ? how.
19:19	mircea_popescu	Ademan cheers.
19:19	moiety	he included therapy costs for the stress
19:19	asciilifeform	all of these tentacles limp along, until they encounter... a meal.
19:19	asciilifeform	then, delicious crunch crunch
19:20	mircea_popescu	well maybe.
19:20	mircea_popescu	you ever seen a kid try to feed a lizzard ?
19:20	mircea_popescu	or w/e other reptile.
19:20	asciilifeform	sec can be manned by devils, or by mild-mannered bureaucrats just plodding along, paying their credit card bills. but in point of fact, it is a machine built for preventing americans from doing certain voluntary things with their money
19:20	mircea_popescu	it's true that reptiles are great hunters. it's false that they're uber hunting machines as the kid imagines them
19:20	mircea_popescu	speaking of which : anyone remember tom green's performance in road trip ?
19:20	asciilifeform	just the same way as nsa is built for a certain purpose
19:21	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that it fails at. miserably.
19:21	mircea_popescu	repeatedly.
19:21	mircea_popescu	despondently. bleakly.
19:21	mircea_popescu	you have no idea what depression is until you've seen the depths through the eyes of a high ranking bureaucrat.
19:21	Neil	Lol, "as well as his account statements"
19:21	asciilifeform	no need to go far for other examples. fbi, for instance, mainly relies on entrapment to manufacture 'terrorists'
19:21	joecool	heh i never read the bitvps story on trilema
19:22	asciilifeform	(see the 'new york death ray' case recently)
19:22	joecool	mircea_popescu: heroin was the likely answer regarding that case
19:22	mircea_popescu	joecool how you mean ?
19:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.054598 = 0.3276 BTC [+] {2}
19:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}
19:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
19:23	joecool	mircea_popescu: i'm guessing he got embarrassed about his habit and stopped reporting P&L statements when the L was coming from heroin acquisitions
19:24	joecool	bitvps 2.0 was supposed to happen for him too but he started selling the equipment he lined up for that last week
19:25	mircea_popescu	afaik he got some job in the uk and forgot all about this
19:25	Apocalyptic	lolwhat
19:25	joecool	LOL
19:25	Apocalyptic	^
19:25	mircea_popescu	at the time bitcoin didn't look as big as it does today. iirc it was ~2-5 bux per or somesuch
19:26	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ever read 'Man-Eaters of Kumaon', by J. Corbett ?
19:26	Ghaleon	heroin eh?
19:27	mircea_popescu	http://24.media.tumblr.com/b865dd69b609d36eb46a1e982ce15c83/tumblr_mqpdtfDEkZ1s9rg6lo1_1280.jpg
19:27	joecool	Ghaleon: yes
19:27	mircea_popescu	or, "every ass looks good on a bike. that's why we buy bikes"
19:27	asciilifeform	a study of tigers and when/how/why they eat human
19:27	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nop
19:27	Ghaleon	we need to propel bit coin to mass respectability,.. one inch at a time
19:27	asciilifeform	essence being, it is the weak/old/injured beasts that are the most dangerous to man
19:27	asciilifeform	rather than the strongest
19:27	mircea_popescu	this is true, yeah
19:28	Ghaleon	tiger only go man eater when they lose their teeth , get wounded and cannot hunt normal prey, most animals avoid humans
19:28	asciilifeform	because they are unable to catch the meat that they actually like
19:28	mircea_popescu	it's not a matter of like.
19:28	mircea_popescu	any population has its marginals
19:28	Ghaleon	yes, much as among humans, it is the cowards we must watch for.. not the brave ones
19:28	mircea_popescu	those marginals have to still make ends meet
19:28	benderp	or as I say to my staunchly little-d democratic friends "everything is born, matures, ossifies and dies. governments are no different."
19:28	asciilifeform	well, their standard diet, for whatever biological reason
19:28	mircea_popescu	why do you think it's mostly the lowlifes that scam ?
19:28	asciilifeform	right
19:28	mircea_popescu	because they got offered the cushy sec job and passed on it to be on the street ?
19:28	asciilifeform	so u.s. bureaucrats are not harmless merely because of their everyday impotence.
19:29	Ghaleon	humans are good creatures by nature
19:29	asciilifeform	if anything, they are hungry for easy meat
19:29	asciilifeform	like 'silk roat' et al.
19:29	asciilifeform	*road
19:29	Ghaleon	the system is corrupt. it makes monsters out of many of us
19:29	mircea_popescu	except i'm a fucking briar patch.
19:29	mircea_popescu	nobody sane would try to bite a rosehip bush.
19:29	mircea_popescu	best go after actual meat.
19:30	benderp	"hardest target in bitcoin", to quote a guy.
19:30	asciilifeform	no argument. just that some naive lost soul might mistakenly conclude that 'u.s. bureaucrats, harmless'
19:30	mircea_popescu	a, certainly. nothing man made is harmless.
19:30	asciilifeform	storytime
19:31	mircea_popescu	i know a case of a woman that died through exploded colon because she and her coworker shoved an air compressor outlet in her ass
19:31	asciilifeform	in the ussr, trade in (and even possession) of gold bullion was theoretically a capital opffense
19:31	mircea_popescu	and pushed go.
19:31	mircea_popescu	air compressors, turns out, are very dangerous and quite lethal
19:31	asciilifeform	*offense
19:31	asciilifeform	it was largely never enforced, except for a certain very famous case where it was.
19:32	asciilifeform	bureaucrats wanted to 'look tough' that one time.
19:32	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the air compressor story is inescapably linked in my mind with Latvia.
19:32	mircea_popescu	it seriously happened here, not urban legend or anything.
19:32	asciilifeform	where the germans came across a school full of orthodox jews and publicly dispatched them in exactly this way.
19:32	asciilifeform	it was in a mechanic's shop
19:33	asciilifeform	(or rather, adjacent to one)
19:33	mircea_popescu	http://www.amosnews.ro/arhiva/joc-erotic-terminat-tragic-17-11-2005
19:33	ozbot	Joc erotic terminat tragic
19:33	deadweasel	the ole airhose in the outhose, lethal she be
19:33	asciilifeform	except the jerries did it in reverse
19:33	asciilifeform	hose in mouth
19:34	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform can't blame them. it's only the past 10-20 years that you can safely go in the undies of people picked off the street.
19:34	benderp	modern impalement.
19:35	asciilifeform	lol
19:36	asciilifeform	benderp: impalement (of the king vlad, rather than assyrian, variety) was a much more leisurely affair
19:36	asciilifeform	the 'client' would be left alone with his thoughts for some days.
19:36	benderp	goodness.
19:36	benderp	fed?
19:36	Apocalyptic	asciilifeform, is it worth a read ?
19:37	asciilifeform	esp. if the stake was thick (the 'dracula' chronicle i translated some weeks ago carefully specified 'thick')
19:37	asciilifeform	Apocalyptic: is what worth read
19:37	asciilifeform	?
19:38	Apocalyptic	'Man-Eaters of Kumaon', by J. Corbett
19:38	asciilifeform	it is.
19:38	asciilifeform	but the general fact behind the animals described therein is, i believe, well-known.
19:38	Apocalyptic	will get one then
19:39	asciilifeform	it is largely about how tigers were hunted (written by a professional)
19:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 6102 @ 0.00361384 = 22.0517 BTC [-] {47}
19:40	mircea_popescu	http://bitcoingirl.org/
19:40	ozbot	Bitcoin Girl
19:40	mircea_popescu	is this the same one as before or a totally different identical one ?
19:40	ninjashogun	(question: has trezor been audited?)
19:40	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 13898 @ 0.00312378 = 43.4143 BTC [-] {39}
19:41	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: when do we get 'dollar girl' ?
19:41	mircea_popescu	i think marlin was dollar girl
19:41	joecool	lol not Leah
19:41	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: almost certainly not, given that it isn't commercially available last i checked
19:42	mircea_popescu	http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/marilyn-monroe-3-andrew-fare.jpg
19:42	mircea_popescu	that one.
19:43	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'Courtesans and Fishcakes' (J.N.Davidson) mentions an ancient greek whore affectionately called 'Obole' (after her price, 1 obol)
19:43	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, will you trust it when it's available?
19:43	mircea_popescu	hehe.
19:43	mircea_popescu	nah, the greek girl was phyrne
19:43	Shakespeare	"and an e-mail sent to a general mailbox at SatochiDice was unanswered." I wonder why!
19:44	Shakespeare	SEC isnt run by the devil or whatever, i thought it was run by perverts and sex addicts?
19:44	mircea_popescu	i didn't even know they had an inbox
19:44	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: there is sufficient information available about 'trezor' to learn the answer to this. but please do own homework
19:44	Shakespeare	if they dom it's certainly not satoChidice.com
19:44	mircea_popescu	hahaha
19:44	mircea_popescu	dude what's with these people mispelling sites
19:44	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, given that my question is whether you, specifically, will trust it - there is no way to do so other than to ask you :)
19:44	mircea_popescu	the daphne chick misspelled her own email in her own sigblock, it's like...
19:44	mircea_popescu	do you even type!
19:44	asciilifeform	mispelling is 'yesterday' - 'today' is 'bit-squatting.'
19:45	asciilifeform	ninjashogun: if you must know, the answer is no.
19:45	mircea_popescu	carsam ^ you misspelled the domain name.
19:46	ninjashogun	asciilifeform, ok
19:46	Shakespeare	<@assbot> [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 13898 @ 0.00312378 = 43.4143 BTC [-] {39} /// impressive!
19:49	mircea_popescu	so til my name means Peace Priest.
19:49	dexX7	ninjashogun: trezor firmware is open source afaik, so you can always verify for yourself or push your own version
19:49	mircea_popescu	i am hereby the first and probably only simpleminded psychotic peace priest.
19:49	mircea_popescu	SPPP
19:49	asciilifeform	dexX7: in what sense is it open source?
19:50	Ademan	asciilifeform: I was under the impression both the hardware and software are going to be open source
19:50	benderp	Shakespeare: what was the slippage on that one?
19:50	Ademan	"slush said so in the advertising video"
19:50	mircea_popescu	Ademan the space between going to be and is.
19:50	ninjashogun	mircea_popescu, what does that mean?
19:50	asciilifeform	dexX7: the vendor's site has a bunch of stuff but none of the actual interesting bits. this may change at some point, ask him.
19:50	ninjashogun	are you exchanging a symmetric password with someone over this channel? ;-)
19:50	Ademan	mircea_popescu: considering the trezor hasn't been released yet though, it hardly bothers me.
19:51	asciilifeform	although there are interesting bits that can be inferred merely from the pcb mask posted by the author.
19:51	Ademan	not that I'll give them any money right now though
19:51	asciilifeform	but, why should i steal all of the surprises? it's unsportsmanlike.
19:51	dexX7	"Some of the sources are at http://github.com/trezor/. We are in the process of finalizing and cleaning up the sources and preparing a security audit of the code. We will publish the sources before shipping TREZOR to our customers."
19:51	mircea_popescu	Ademan kinda in the same boat myself.
19:51	dexX7	ah i didn't know that not everything was already released
19:52	Shakespeare	<benderp> Shakespeare: what was the slippage on that one? /// I dunno if it'd be fair to assess considering the volatility daily, but I think the sale started about 20% higher than where it ended
19:52	Shakespeare	last week it was a similar price though
19:52	Shakespeare	so overall not a bad out for whoever
19:52	benderp	so copyright and patents. do these survive the bitpocalypse?
19:53	Ademan	benderp: nope, IP bad
19:53	Shakespeare	they survive, via WoT
19:53	Ademan	Shakespeare: how does WoT = IP?
19:53	Ademan	or ~= even
19:53	Ademan	(not the perl meaning though)
19:54	Shakespeare	it certainly doesnt equal it
19:54	Shakespeare	but in as much as what copyright really is
19:54	benderp	"IP bad" an argument doth not make, Ademan.
19:54	asciilifeform	Ademan: how does WoT = IP << see mp's piece on how 'the same string, emitted from different mouths, is worth different amount'
19:54	asciilifeform	wot tells you which mouth.
19:54	mircea_popescu	benderp that's complicated.
19:54	benderp	mircea_popescu: i know. kinda why i bring it to the sages.
19:54	mircea_popescu	i think your cancer joke is too soon.
19:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 981 @ 0.00015394 = 0.151 BTC [+]
19:57	mircea_popescu	http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/237/789/830.jpg
19:57	Shakespeare	what's this nonsense where if you direct link a WSJ article, you get a paywall
19:57	Shakespeare	but if you Google it, you dont
19:58	Shakespeare	http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304026304579449782511589924?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304026304579449782511589924.html
19:58	ozbot	SecondMarket Seeks to Open Bitcoin Fund to Ordinary Investors - WSJ.com
19:58	Shakespeare	SecondMarket seeks to get a call from Ms. Waxman
19:58	Ademan	asciilifeform: Well the objectionable part of IP for me is more patent trolling, punishing independent discovery of the same thing, stupidly narrow fair use policies. I'd definitely be ok with an independent institution that tracks initial discoveries, and if the market is willing to pay more for products from them, then great
19:58	mircea_popescu	"seeks" you know ?
19:58	asciilifeform	what prevents 'ordinary investor' from simply buying btc somewhere?
19:58	mircea_popescu	alaskan husky seeks to knit sweater
19:59	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you don't understand the press do you.
19:59	Shakespeare	"SecondMarket Inc. is racing to open up a private bitcoin investment fund to ordinary investors as soon as the fourth quarter, potentially beating a rival offering by two investors best known for their lawsuit against Facebook Inc. FB -1.37% chief executive Mark Zuckerberg."
19:59	Shakespeare	such a painful sentence
19:59	Shakespeare	oh they are SO COOL for not spelling out Winklevoss
19:59	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: evidently not.
20:00	Ademan	I can't wait until the absurd amount of funds on wallstreet join in the price rollercoaster
20:00	asciilifeform	why does anybody interested in btc need a 'fund' ?
20:00	asciilifeform	someone please enlighten me?
20:01	mircea_popescu	Ademan it's complicated.
20:01	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform because the average american owns some bezzle called 401k
20:01	mircea_popescu	which he's not allowed to spend on normal nonbezzle items
20:01	Shakespeare	http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/03/19/bitbeat-kncminer-flips-the-scrypt-sells-2-million-of-new-rigs-in-four-hours/?mod=WSJBlog
20:01	ozbot	BitBeat: KnCMiner Flips the Scrypt; Sells $2 Million of New Rigs in Four Hours - MoneyBeat - WSJ
20:01	mircea_popescu	should bitcoin get bezzle status, adelman problem
20:02	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes, i know of this - one time got a new job and forgot to opt out, lost a few bucks into nevernever land
20:02	Shakespeare	above link pairs well with http://bitbet.us/bet/789/ltc-to-pass-25-on-btce-before-april/
20:02	Shakespeare	to bad that bet ends so soon
20:02	Shakespeare	too*
20:03	kakobrekla	not much game on ltc bets
20:03	Ademan	it's also a sufficient PITA to buy BTC (legally) and the average person *likes* investing in HerpDerp Corp, and are no doubt frightened by there being no CEO of Bitcoin to hate
20:03	Shakespeare	if you had LTCbet.us maybe more action
20:03	Shakespeare	of course AltBet.us would have to come first
20:04	Shakespeare	she's selfish like that
20:04	Ademan	crapcoinbet.us
20:04	diametric	theres ltc bombs if i'm not mistaken
20:04	kakobrekla	well i guess that is another thing you can build on top of bbet, on the fly exchange
20:04	mircea_popescu	^
20:05	asciilifeform	kakobrekla: that sounds like a good way to end up playing 'moldbug's chess'
20:05	Shakespeare	so you'd be okay with an ATC mirror that simply converted to BitBets?
20:05	diametric	http://bitbet.us/bet/621/any-altcoin-will-surpass-litecoin-in-market-capitalization/
20:05	asciilifeform	'Imagine a chess game. Now, imagine a group of kibitzers watching the chess game. Now, imagine the kibitzers begin to bet on the game. The betting will create odds. The odds express each side's probability of winning. This is a prediction market. To turn this prediction market into a decision market, we say: could we get rid of one of the players, and just have the kibitzers play the game?'
20:05	asciilifeform	http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2010/01/hanson-moldbug-debate.html
20:05	ozbot	Unqualified Reservations: The Hanson-Moldbug debate
20:05	kakobrekla	;;google moldbugs chess
20:05	gribble	Unqualified Reservations: The Hanson-Moldbug debate: <http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2010/01/hanson-moldbug-debate.html>; Overcoming Bias : My Moldbug Debate: <http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/my-moldbug-debate.html>; Bruce Charlton's Miscellany: The Leftism of Mencius Moldbug: <http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-leftism-of-mencius-moldbug.html>
20:05	diametric	How is the market cap going to be determined in that bet?
20:05	kakobrekla	ah
20:06	diametric	oh wait it has a link in it
20:06	Shakespeare	the bet is over no?
20:06	diametric	Does Ripple count?
20:07	diametric	this bet seems super ambiguous
20:07	Shakespeare	the bet is closed man
20:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61889 BTC [+]
20:07	diametric	Apparently I'm blind
20:07	diametric	as well
20:07	diametric	carry on
20:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-]
20:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.619158 = 3.0958 BTC [+] {3}
20:08	mircea_popescu	diametric is super confused.
20:09	Ademan	mircea_popescu: is reddit's /u/MPOE-PR legit?
20:09	mircea_popescu	uh whassat ?
20:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.629622 = 3.1481 BTC [+] {3}
20:09	Ademan	http://www.reddit.com/user/MPOE-PR
20:09	mircea_popescu	ah, no.
20:10	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.63010999 = 2.5204 BTC [+] {2}
20:10	diametric	more popescu clones
20:10	Ademan	diametric: *PR clones
20:11	Ademan	wow, AM1 is actually recovering
20:11	ThickAsThieves	what does recovering mean?
20:12	Ademan	whoa
20:12	ThickAsThieves	whoa
20:12	ThickAsThieves	http://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/ --- Yes, now pays 2%, woot!
20:13	Ademan	well, it's been down to 0.4 iirc
20:13	ozbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment
20:13	mircea_popescu	robertmcmillan ello.
20:14	ThickAsThieves	"Facebook Security Director Joins Bitcoin Startup Coinbase"
20:14	novusordo	neato
20:14	ThickAsThieves	from Wired?
20:15	mircea_popescu	robertmcmillan to speak you type in the little box on the bottom and hit enter
20:15	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves prolly.
20:15	kakobrekla	asciilifeform not sure how this correlates , explain ?
20:15	asciilifeform	kakobrekla: any kind of heavy machinery directly wired to a prediction market is, well... this.
20:16	ThickAsThieves	kako only suggested a conversion mechanism, no?
20:16	kakobrekla	correct
20:16	asciilifeform	not that it's a bad idea per se, just that the builder must be careful to avoid creating a situation where someone can lift out of his pockets by artificially steering the machine using a heavy bet
20:17	robertmcmillan	Hey Mircea. Sorry not used to this UI. How do I DM you?
20:18	ThickAsThieves	there's mor ethan one way to design such a thing for bitbet, so i could see a bad design being possible
20:18	kakobrekla	i see only one way
20:18	ThickAsThieves	well how do you handle payout in alts?
20:19	asciilifeform	roughly, fooling the system by betting in a particular way should always have -EV.
20:19	kakobrekla	but whatever, lets not get into that, someone should at least try to do it though
20:19	dexX7	Ademan: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438359.msg4816701#msg4816701 + data sheet "leaked" yesterday ... gen 3 is coming
20:19	asciilifeform	as soon as it has +EV under any conceivably-predictable circumstances, you're fucked
20:19	Ademan	dexX7: yeah, saw that, wasn't gen3 supposed to be out by this month though?
20:20	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i think his idea was just "offer altcoin betting on bitbet, do alt<>btc conversion for your customers transparently"
20:20	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: perhaps i misunderstood then
20:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.0035 = 0.1085 BTC [+]
20:20	asciilifeform	my impression was that he suggested coupling a bitbet-like apparatus to a trading bot.
20:21	dexX7	Ademan: well, tape-out was scheduled for end of january, but there was no delievery date published to my knowledge
20:21	asciilifeform	Ademan: where is the RAM?
20:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00634444 = 0.1269 BTC [+] {2}
20:21	ThickAsThieves	or, you could just only use the content and outcome of bitbet, and handle your own escrow of alts
20:21	Ademan	asciilifeform: RAM for what? SHA256 doesn't need much memory
20:21	asciilifeform	wait i thought this was ltc
20:21	asciilifeform	nm
20:22	*	asciilifeform should probably goto bed
20:22	dexX7	Ademan: additionally there are some who believe there was already a test run with the new chips and a reseller already promoted an am gen3 based miner
20:22	kakobrekla	the money flow nao is user->bbet->user, to implement alt you do it user->service->bbet->service->user
20:23	kakobrekla	where service is a proxy via exchange
20:23	Ademan	dexX7: I thought I read an update that stated Q1 back in december
20:23	ThickAsThieves	problem is you dont wanna convert it twice
20:24	dexX7	that was probably related to the tape out in january
20:24	novusordo	one of AM's previous resellers posted something about a new miner, with specs
20:24	benderp	robertmcmillan: welcome
20:24	dexX7	yea rockxie or so
20:24	novusordo	yup
20:24	deadweasel	also, why support alts?
20:24	kakobrekla	yes well i dont want to do the dishes
20:24	deadweasel	bingo
20:24	ThickAsThieves	many reasons deadweasel
20:25	dexX7	alts are great as testbed
20:25	ThickAsThieves	the easiest being, they exist and always will
20:25	ThickAsThieves	best not to pretend otherwise
20:25	deadweasel	and the admin work of shuffling them around is absurd
20:25	Ademan	ideally you'd accept every payment option possible to maximize your potential customers, really
20:25	deadweasel	shells, do you accept my shells?
20:26	ThickAsThieves	send them to my cryptsy wallet
20:26	novusordo	pls take my cryptoshekels
20:26	kakobrekla	yes, flapcoin will save bbet like bitcoin saved overstock
20:26	deadweasel	i didn't say shares, tat
20:26	dexX7	unrelated: http://xkcd.com/now awesome :D
20:27	Ademan	deadweasel: well show me the shell/BTC exchange so I can convert them to something useful for me and sure!
20:27	deadweasel	mtgox.com
20:28	novusordo	oh cool let me just deposit my shells aaaaaand it's gone
20:28	deadweasel	novusordo: you should start cryptoshekels.
20:28	deadweasel	give it away to your temple friends
20:29	Orion__	hello everyone
20:29	novusordo	wouldn't be too difficult
20:29	Orion__	i have a tiny little problem and i'm in need of an expert
20:29	deadweasel	stackexchange.com
20:29	benkay	what's going on Orion__?
20:29	mircea_popescu	Orion__ hi
20:29	novusordo	seems like everyone and their mother has a personal altcoin now
20:29	mircea_popescu	novusordo momcoin. not a bad idea
20:29	deadweasel	unfortunately so.
20:29	novusordo	so why not me too?
20:30	deadweasel	that is the question
20:30	ThickAsThieves	well Altcoin renders most altcoins worthless
20:30	novusordo	i'll create momcoin under a different pseudonym, and give it slightly different properties than cryptoshekels
20:30	Ademan	git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin && cd bitcoin && find -iname '*.h' -print0 -o -iname '*.cpp' -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i 's/[Bb]itcoin/CryptoShekels/g'
20:30	novusordo	so that i can pump both at the same time
20:31	mircea_popescu	novusordo there are people who consider themselves into various technical fields, such as buildingh
20:32	mircea_popescu	who go to specialised stores and buy tools on the principle that the tools are useful, and so why not buy some tools.
20:32	Ademan	novusordo: and I'll create MILFcoin to compete with momcoin
20:32	mircea_popescu	then milpcoin
20:32	mircea_popescu	miltfcoin
20:34	novusordo	Ademan: i see you're an altcoin design pro
20:34	benkay	Ademan: you missed the secret sauce with that one-liner.
20:35	Ademan	lol
20:36	benkay	mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo: blog updated. look, ma! no bootstrap!
20:36	dexX7	what was your blog again, benkay?
20:36	benkay	although now the linespacing issue with footnotes is just that much more apparent.
20:36	benkay	http://cascadianhacker.com
20:36	dexX7	ah ty
20:36	mircea_popescu	lol i guess so
20:37	dexX7	kinda minimal design approach hehe
20:37	benkay	hue hue hue
20:38	mircea_popescu	anyone kept a copy of the s.dice contract ?
20:39	dexX7	shouldn't be one on mpex?
20:39	benkay	http://web.archive.org/web/20130502173747/http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.DICE
20:39	ozbot	S.DICE last 5@0.00311776
20:40	benkay	mircea_popescu: may i post a copy of the s.dice contract on my blog?
20:41	mircea_popescu	go ahead if you have it
20:41	mircea_popescu	robertmcmillan ^ there's your link
20:43	dexX7	ic. weired
20:48	dexX7	nice, archive.org also archived the prospectus pdfs etc.
20:51	benkay	http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/03/19_the-satoshi-dice-contract.html
20:51	ozbot	The Satoshi Dice Contract
20:54	benkay	bonus side effect of ripping out the css and js from my site is how much more snappy it is.
20:54	benkay	not even gzipping, i'll bet.
20:55	mircea_popescu	aha.
21:00	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.0008149 = 10.6752 BTC [+] {2}
21:02	nubbins`	groan
21:03	nubbins`	you guys
21:03	nubbins`	it's like a competition to see whose website can look the shittiest
21:03	decimation	the irony of all this ukrainian nazi talk is that germans were in ukraine for a long time - they were forcibly resettled by Stalin http://www.geocurrents.info/place/russia-ukraine-and-caucasus/the-tragic-saga-of-the-volga-germans
21:04	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 152 @ 0.0034 = 0.5168 BTC [-] {3}
21:10	decimation	here's a link specific to ukraine http://www.lnu.edu.ua/personal/mdlviv/roboty/grmminor.html
21:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6200001 BTC [-]
21:13	decimation	In 1897, there lived 345 000 Germans in Ukraine, that was 4,2 % of the population. In 1911, there were 419 000 Germans. ... In spite of it, Germans played an important part in the Ukrainian culture life. Until 1914 many professors at Ukrainian universities were Germans.
		↖
21:15	SatoshiJack	Looking for players to test satoshijack.com (Multi-Player Blackjack) No client. Just Browser/HTML5
21:17	Ademan	"our custom JS exploit installs our malware for you!"
21:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05509978 = 0.1102 BTC [+]
21:27	diametric	hah...
21:31	antephialtic	what happened to S.DICE ?
21:31	Ademan	antephialtic: the SEC?
21:31	antephialtic	if MP thinks he's not breaking any laws, why would he delist it?
21:32	Ademan	He can afford a lawyer, maybe his lawyer informed him otherwise :-p
21:33	mircea_popescu	antephialtic it was delisted like a year ago
21:33	moiety	i sreepy, good mew all, whatever your timezone!
21:34	antephialtic	ah, nevermind then
21:34	antephialtic	mircea_popescu: do you find it curious that they were willing to accept BTC addresses as identification?
21:34	mircea_popescu	guy said he sold it out.
21:34	mircea_popescu	who ? satoshidice ?!
21:34	mircea_popescu	that's how it works.
21:34	antephialtic	no SEC
21:35	mircea_popescu	sec what ?
21:36	antephialtic	the SEC asked you to identify MPEx shareholders of S.DICE, and was willing to accept Name and address OR btc address
21:36	mircea_popescu	you know, just because i ask for x y z doesn't automatically mean i consider all of these "identification"
21:36	BCB	SEC has a blockchain parser with you names next to all the addresses.
21:36	antephialtic	makes you wonder just how far along they are on deanonymization
21:37	mircea_popescu	so far they have problems spelling their domain name and following their own regulation.
21:37	diametric	anyone have a particular cheap 5v buck converter module on ebay they've had not burn their homes down?
21:37	diametric	wait wrong channel.
21:37	diametric	though still applies.
21:38	Ademan	diametric: there's a buck converter that's intended to be a drop in for the 7805 actually, it's a bit pricey though
21:38	antephialtic	perhaps the SEC is inept, but there are other agencies in the US government that contract services from non-inept firms to do their dirty work
21:38	antephialtic	and the bumpkins at the SEC may have been given access to such a tool built by such a contractor.
21:38	diametric	Ademan: really? thats interesting, link?
21:38	mircea_popescu	antephialtic yeah, some dude was in chan last month.
21:38	Ademan	like, $10 pricey, if you want them for prototyping and don't summon too much blue smoke they're probably useful though
21:39	diametric	I'm just curious, the easiest ones I've seen have been the ti simpler switcher ones, but they're not at all a dropin for a 7805
21:39	antephialtic	mircea_popescu: let this be a lesson (not to you, but to us) on the importance of using techniques such as merge avoidance, coinjoin & coinswap.
21:39		mircea_popescu
21:39	*	mircea_popescu shrugs
21:40		why you gotta be harassing the nice sec lady?
21:40	BCB	antephialtic, have you viewed any of the SEC's workproduct pretaining to the pirateat40 case? It's pretty impressive
21:40	Ademan	"nice"
21:40	mircea_popescu	[\\\] well she wanted to be friends.
21:40	diametric	should have said tits or gtfo
21:40	mircea_popescu	you wanna be friends with me you gotta perform.
21:40		mircea_popescu: I forgot you don't play well in the sandbox.
21:41	BCB	That would be sexual harrassment
21:41	asciilifeform	sec, deanonymization << meta-nsa has patent, will be displeased
21:41	antephialtic	BCB: no, but I'm going to have a look
21:41	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform they actually patent the secret shit too ?
21:41	BCB	antephialtic, I'll dig up a link for you.
21:41	antephialtic	BCB: found it on scribd already
21:41	antephialtic	BCB: http://www.scribd.com/doc/210845205/SEC-vs-pirateat40-2
21:41	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: usa has an ancient legal device called 'secret patent'
21:42	mircea_popescu	i didn't know they still bothered
21:42	Ademan	diametric: you're not in ##electronics ? Anyways http://www.ttiinc.com/object/Murata-Power-High-Efficiency-Switching-Regulators-LM78xx-Pinouts.html actually *isn't* the one I was thinking of but it's the right idea
21:42	BCB	antephialtic, that is the motion for summary judgement
21:42	diametric	Ademan: i should join that channel, thanks.
21:43	asciilifeform	diametric: what v to what v ?
21:43	mircea_popescu	BCB what was so impressive about said "workproduct" ?
21:43		By the end of fiscal year 1991, the number of patent secrecy orders stood at 6,193. Many such orders were imposed on individuals and organizations working without government support. This number shrank for each fiscal year thereafter, until 2002. Since 2002, the number of secrecy orders has grown, with 5,002 secrecy orders in effect at the end of fiscal year 2007.
21:43	antephialtic	BCB: you have a link to the original complaint?
21:43	BCB	antephialtic, check this out: https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F27cadnJ.png&t=538&c=DOo6UCxJ5p8-eg
21:43	diametric	asciilifeform: realistically I'll be using it for 24V -> 5V, and something around 10-15W without any active cooling
21:44	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: getting your patent 'secreted' was once the ultimate crackpot 'street cred' (e.g. flanagan and 'neurophone')
21:44	BCB	antephialtic, here is the full history of documents: http://ia800904.us.archive.org/35/items/gov.uscourts.txed.146063/gov.uscourts.txed.146063.docket.html
21:44	BCB	these guys don't fuck around
21:44	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i hope they did at least a dozen troll secretions/year
21:44	mircea_popescu	basic opsec anyway.
21:44	asciilifeform	afaik it's only ever done to zap potential competition of 'favorite son' dod contractors.
21:44	antephialtic	BCB: not bad
21:45	BCB	antephialtic, pretty impressive.
21:45	BCB	talk about following the money
21:45	asciilifeform	sha1 hash? wonder if those are legally binding
21:46	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform kinda cool that bitcoin is immune.
21:48	asciilifeform	diametric: you might be able to get away with a re-purposed car->usb converter
21:48	asciilifeform	for the voltage buck
21:49	asciilifeform	barbaric, but you can get them by the dozen
21:49	diametric	yeah
21:50	asciilifeform	make sure it actually pisses out 5v before connecting anything valuable...
21:52	novusordo	i'm trying to figure out how to power my raspberry pi on 5V to send up in a balloon soon
21:52	*	novusordo looks at car->usb converter on corner of desk
22:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 43 @ 0.0034 = 0.1462 BTC [+]
22:13	mircea_popescu	just add a bunch of cells neh ?
22:15	mircea_popescu	get 6 zinc-air together you have about 3 ampere-hour in there.
22:15	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'pi' needs 5.0v within 5%, if i recall
22:15	asciilifeform	hence his question about vregs.
22:16	mircea_popescu	to a large degree buttons are small regulating neh ?
22:16	asciilifeform	if only.
22:16	mircea_popescu	can't you get models taht are essentially draw-driven ?
22:16	asciilifeform	which is to say, they are, in the sense that a li cell that's been dead for decades will sometimes measure 3.0
22:16	asciilifeform	when disconnected
22:17	mircea_popescu	ie, they discharge at a given rate, you can alter their actual voltage by the resistence ?
22:17	asciilifeform	you can - this is called 'divider' - but it throws away energy
22:17	mircea_popescu	well yeah
22:17	mircea_popescu	but 6 x .9 = 5.4
22:17	asciilifeform	'buck converter' is more efficient, in that it works by letting a cap charge to the desired voltage and then empty into another
22:17	mircea_popescu	you're only throwing away like .2 or sometyhing
22:18	asciilifeform	voltage dividers also have a nasty habit of non-linearity over current draw
22:18	mircea_popescu	or conversely 4 x 1.3 is just about 5.x
22:18	asciilifeform	work it out on napkin
22:18	asciilifeform	hence people buy 'regulators' - e.g. the ubiquitous 7805
22:19	asciilifeform	or, the slightly more determined, buy/build 'dc-dc' converters, of the kind described previously.
22:20	asciilifeform	http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/imgele/voldiv.gif
22:20	asciilifeform	no need for napkin!
22:21	mircea_popescu	the internet saves paper.
22:21	asciilifeform	sure does.
22:24	antephialtic	mp: you are famous http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-19/gambling-website-s-bitcoin-denominated-stock-draws-sec-inquiry.html
22:25	antephialtic	think the SEC is going to learn about the Streisand Effect
22:25	mircea_popescu	was linked afore
22:25	mircea_popescu	uh, whatdid they try to delete ?
22:26	asciilifeform	http://www.intechopen.com/source/html/39326/media/image14_w.jpg
22:27	antephialtic	asciilifeform: when can I buy a cardano?
22:28	asciilifeform	antephialtic: there is to be a cardano at mp's party. if you really can't wait, you can come and buy that one.
22:28	asciilifeform	why the hurry?
22:29	antephialtic	I was recently looking into buying a hardware device for GPG signing and everything on the market looks pretty clunky. I stumbled onto the Cardano, and it seemed pretty well suited to my use case
22:30	asciilifeform	antephialtic: be so kind as to briefly describe your use case - for my enlightenment
22:30	antephialtic	have multiple machines that I want to sign emails from, some of which are not fully in my control (e.g. workstation owned by employer)
22:30	mircea_popescu	sounds like a winner.
22:30	asciilifeform	aha
22:31	asciilifeform	this is certainly one of the intended use scenarios, yes.
22:31	mircea_popescu	antephialtic ideally should be available to order late april.
22:31	antephialtic	cool, do you have any idea what the pricing will be like?
22:33	asciilifeform	mp proposed a tentative price at one point, but that was some time ago
22:35	asciilifeform	intent is for the product to be priced competitively vs. the state-of-the-art alternative (i.e. the traditional '90s laptop with linux/gpg in ROM)
22:35	asciilifeform	that is, the contrivance i assume everyone here is presently using in lieu of a cardano
22:36	asciilifeform	do not neglect to take into account what the substitute costs (incl. one's time)
22:37	asciilifeform	the old saw, 'xxxx is free if yer time has no value'
22:37	antephialtic	indeed. as long as the price is not obscene, I am willing to pay for convenience without sacrificing security.
22:39	diametric	It saddens me my get in wot is not of one generated with a cardano.
22:39	diametric	key*
22:39	asciilifeform	diametric: you do know that one can change keys in wot
22:39	asciilifeform	diametric: assuming, naturally, control of the previous key
22:39	diametric	asciilifeform: I swore you had told me you couldn't before.
22:40	asciilifeform	you can. it was buggy formerly
22:40	diametric	I must have misheard you
22:40	asciilifeform	and took ages
22:40	asciilifeform	i did mention that i tried and it croaked
22:40	asciilifeform	but two weeks later, there it was
22:40	mircea_popescu	antephialtic price won't be obscene
22:41	asciilifeform	diametric: afaik the only well-known, interesting place where key can never be changed is mpex
22:41	mircea_popescu	and even there... reg new key, push assets, good to go.
22:42	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: unless i'm mistaken, this counts as buying a new subscription
22:42	mircea_popescu	aye
22:43	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i like to imagine that it covers the cost of a girl etching the new key in a granite plinth
22:43	mircea_popescu	lol if it weren't a security issue i suppose i could make rings for people
22:43	asciilifeform	and tossing the old one in the reactor
22:43	mircea_popescu	like the superbowl
22:44	mircea_popescu	"Make no mistake that the US gov't already knows the real identity and location of MP."
22:45	mircea_popescu	mah real identitty o noes
22:45	diametric	I like the ones where you're not actually a person, but a group of individuals pretending to be a guy named Mircea Popescu
22:45	novusordo	didn't know about the cardano, interesting
22:45	diametric	and of course the one where everyone in this channel is you.
22:45	asciilifeform	bourbaki!
22:46	antephialtic	spoiler alert: MP = Satoshi Nakamoto
22:46	mircea_popescu	diametric that is actually pretty close to the truth of the matter.
22:47	mircea_popescu	various people doing my research for me, feeding me links and so on
22:47	mircea_popescu	actually come to think of it... i'm like kirk, if the bridge bunnies were actually useful
22:47	mircea_popescu	rather than telegenic
22:47	antephialtic	do you actually write the tweets?
22:48	mircea_popescu	well some are automated reposts from trilema
22:50	antephialtic	if you mind me asking, when did you first hear about BTC?
22:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 47 @ 0.00350002 = 0.1645 BTC [+]
22:51	mircea_popescu	early 2011.
22:54	antephialtic	well, good luck with the SEC business. I suspect it will bring you a lot of attention, releasing those emails has definitely already made some waves.
22:54	Duffer1	what's the plan if they attempt subpeona?
22:56	Mats_cd03	Can "I am Satoshi Nakamoto" be a thing?
22:56	thestringpuller	!ticker m s.mpoe
22:56	assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00079813 / 0.00080834 / 0.00081619 (2123197 shares, 1,716.28 BTC), 7D: 0.00079084 / 0.00081827 / 0.00089749 (8082472 shares, 6,613.68 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085022 / 0.0008982 (30740127 shares, 26,136.16 BTC)
22:56	thestringpuller	!last m s.mpoe
22:56	assbot	Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.0008149 BTC [+]
22:56	Mats_cd03	A la Fight Club
22:56	thestringpuller	lol
22:57	antephialtic	I would actually buy the bitcoin glasses from the newsweek cover
22:58	mircea_popescu	Duffer1 it doth say there, mpex does comply with legal requests.
22:58	mircea_popescu	basically, there's two avenues open. you can make a legal request, or you can make a legal request.
22:58	mircea_popescu	to make a friendly request you gotta be friends. the path ot becoming friends is detailed.
22:59	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00366979 = 0.9174 BTC [+] {9}
22:59	mircea_popescu	to make a legal request you gotta make that legal request. i wouldn't presume to teach teh sec how to do that.
22:59	antephialtic	MP: it would have been way cooler if they had joined the WOT :-(
22:59	mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 i don't see why not. i thought it already is, but more like "he is satoshi nakamoto"
22:59	mircea_popescu	antephialtic they probably will.
23:00	thestringpuller	WoT is open source no?
23:00	mircea_popescu	sure
23:00	thestringpuller	or at least nanotube 's gribble is
23:00	mircea_popescu	the two are distinct.
23:00	mircea_popescu	heh i got confused earlier. " you can make a friendly request, or you can make a legal request" is what i meant
23:01	benkay	no no it was much better the first way
23:01	antephialtic	besides, I don't think MP is the one in trouble here. Voorhees, on the other hand ...
23:01	mircea_popescu	anyway, i dunno why people are so touchy really.
23:01	mircea_popescu	but i do imagine it makes administerting justice in the us fucking impossible.
23:02	mircea_popescu	i dunno how cops can manage in that sort of poisonous atmosphere
23:02	thestringpuller	lol watch an episode of cops
23:02	Mats_cd03	if someone makes t shirts with "i am satoshi nakamoto" with a v for vendetta theme or ghost in the shell, i will be your first customer
23:02	antephialtic	police treatment in the US is very different depending on race and socioeconomic status
23:02	mircea_popescu	;;later tell nubbins` ^
23:02	gribble	The operation succeeded.
23:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 700 @ 0.00047503 = 0.3325 BTC [+] {4}
23:03	antephialtic	if you are a white guy it is pretty much cheat mode
23:03	Mats_cd03	cops is a theatrical production
23:03	diametric	antephialtic: if you're upper middle class white guy
23:03	antephialtic	if you are black/hispanic you get hassled, constantly
23:03	diametric	poor white guys only fare a little bit better
23:03	antephialtic	agreed.
23:03	asciilifeform	people have this odd concept that encounters with police take place exclusively in traffic
23:04	thestringpuller	Mats_cd03: if you sell 6 shirts I'll do it
23:04	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well cause the us made the mistake of giving the cops squad cars
23:04	mircea_popescu	so now they won't ever get out of them if they can help it
23:04	asciilifeform	if they're 'the bullet with your name on it, not the shrapnel addressed 'to occupant'' - doesn't matter if you're black, white, martian
23:05	mircea_popescu	wait what ?
23:05	joecool	mircea_popescu: the bigger ones moved up to SUVs. more room
23:06	mircea_popescu	heh
23:06	benkay	Mats_cd03: google "i am satoshi nakamoto"
23:06	antephialtic	actually I have seen quite a few urban cops on segways.
23:07	mircea_popescu	jesus why is everyone so opposed to walking
23:07	thestringpuller	;;google site: trilema.com mpex tech stuff
23:07	antephialtic	like a less intimidating version of robocop
23:07	gribble	MPEx tech stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/mpex-tech-stuff>; MPEx security breach pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/mpex-security-breach>; MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/mpex/>
23:07	mircea_popescu	walking is great!
23:07	asciilifeform	if i recall, there was a fed. gov grant for them to buy the machines
23:07	asciilifeform	accounted for a good fraction of the net sales
23:07	antephialtic	Dean Kamen must have had a friend in the DoJ
23:07	asciilifeform	'poetic justice' - the idiot who bought segway corp. ended up driving his... off a cliff.
23:08	dexX7	says a guy who rides a horse in the desert ;)
23:08	asciilifeform	http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39377851/ns/world_news-europe/t/segway-company-owner-rides-scooter-cliff-dies/
		↖
23:08	ozbot	Segway company owner rides scooter off cliff - World news - Europe | NBC News
23:08	asciilifeform	last words, 'noooooooo....'
23:08	mircea_popescu	hahaha i did not know that
23:08	mircea_popescu	weird. wild.
23:08	joecool	mircea_popescu: true story, I was actually stopped by a cop multiple times one day because I decided to walk to the next town instead of driving one day, he damanded to know my destination and I refused to provide him with it.
23:09	joecool	mircea_popescu: walking in the US is suspicious behavior
23:09	novusordo	\
23:09	mircea_popescu	nutty
23:09	antephialtic	In many parts of the US, especially the south, townships are designed such that walking is impractical and everyone must have a car
23:09	antephialtic	to keep the homeless away
23:09	novusordo	damnit, window focus
23:10	asciilifeform	many years ago, as a freshly graduated kid, i worked in a dreadful salt mine where one of the products was a military bot based on a segway with the top part sawn off.
23:10	asciilifeform	worked about as well as you'd expect
23:10	asciilifeform	100% gov. funded
23:10	asciilifeform	they even had the audacity to... solicit donations from the public!
23:10	MisterE	joecool: living in the US is suspicious behavior
23:10	asciilifeform	'help our beloved warriors in iraq'
23:10	joecool	MisterE: of course, though I intend to eventually move out
23:10	MisterE	lol asciilifeform
23:11	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform did it produce ?
23:11	MisterE	joecool: if you can work remotely don't hesitate
23:11	MisterE	I left the US 8-years ago and never looked back best thing I ever did
23:11	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not afaik
23:11	joecool	MisterE: you're the second one who has told me that now
23:11	mircea_popescu	so where'you now ?
23:11	MisterE	mircea_popescu: no just a few billion thrown at a contractor, its a jobs program
23:11	MisterE	Asia
23:12	MisterE	joecool: I might have told you once in the past heh
23:12	MisterE	I recommend everyone with a head on their shoulders gtfo of US now
23:12	joecool	MisterE: did you own a VPN company for awhile?
23:12	MisterE	come live here where cost of living is so low
23:12	MisterE	no not me
23:13	MisterE	you can have western standard of living for a few hudred USD /month
23:13	antephialtic	MisterE: SE Asia?
23:13	antephialtic	Thailand is quite cheap, yes. Lots of security people there as well
23:13	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: "This means that the physical machine which hosts the trading engine is not accessible directlyii from the Internet." <<< so if i were to vpn a machine with a private gpg key and send data over the wire (via some computer) I would never have to worry about the keyring being compromised? Or is the most effective way to sign/encrypt/decrypt/verify data on an airgapped machine then marshall it over v
23:13	MisterE	I was in land use planning and commercial development permitting
23:13	mircea_popescu	http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-19/gambling-website-s-bitcoin-denominated-stock-draws-sec-inquiry
23:13	MisterE	antephialtic: yes my 'home base' is Bangkok
23:13	mircea_popescu	check out businessweek. an entire article, no links.
23:13	MisterE	lol
23:14	MisterE	such crap journalism these days
23:14	antephialtic	MisterE: have you ever been to Vang Vieng, Laos?
23:14	MisterE	I'm working on an idea to address that mircea_popescu
23:14	antephialtic	they don't wanna give mpex any pagerank
23:14	mircea_popescu	"SatoshiDice listed shares on MPEx in August 2012, according to an MPEx-affiliated website."
23:14	mircea_popescu	"SatoshiDice.com, according to a copy of the request posted on the website trilema.com."
23:15	mircea_popescu	basically, copy/pasted the bloomberg story.
23:15	MisterE	antephialtic: thats how they pronounce it but proper spelling is Vientiane, I have been there several times for visas but can't say I enjoy the place
23:16	antephialtic	Vientaine is actually a different city
23:16	MisterE	oh?
23:16	antephialtic	Vang Vieng is a party location. Went there when I was in college with a few friends. It's like heaven on earth
23:16	MisterE	I haven't travelled much in Laos there's not really much there heh
23:16	MisterE	oh I believe that, Laos can be lawless
23:17	MisterE	thats where TPB guys are chilling out
23:17	antephialtic	Anyone here in Japan?
23:17	joecool	mircea_popescu: waiting for newsweek's version
23:17	joecool	:D
23:18	antephialtic	er... newsweak
23:18	MisterE	also lots of drug gangs and chances for big problems if you wanter off the well worn path without a guide /friend in Laos
23:18	MisterE	It would be akin to walking around Can Cun back up away from the beach where the narco mansions are
23:18	mircea_popescu	joecool well, maybe they find some old guy named mircea popescu somewhere close to burbank.
23:18	MisterE	Mexico
23:18	antephialtic	yeah, probably not a good idea
23:19	MisterE	not for a fat whitey like me :)
23:19	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00374477 = 0.749 BTC [+] {5}
23:19	dexX7	spoiler: wired.com posts a story on sd + sec, too
23:19	antephialtic	off topic, but it appears MH370 has been found
23:19	joecool	mircea_popescu: if you look hard enough you can find any name in the US, someone named their kid Adolf Hitler a couple towns over
23:19	mircea_popescu	antephialtic where was it ?
23:19	mircea_popescu	"couch cushions"
23:20	antephialtic	"Australia Satellite Imagery Locates Two Objects That Look Like Parts of An Aircraft"
23:20	antephialtic	"Australia Prime Minister Says Search Aircraft Dispatched to Area, Expected to Arrive Soon"
23:20	mircea_popescu	Courtney Love claims she has 'found' missing Malays
23:20	antephialtic	no further info.
23:20	MisterE	WTF really?
23:20	jcpham	In her twat?
23:20	antephialtic	this is the WSJ. guessing somewhere in the ocean, however
23:20	MisterE	I was sure aliens snatched it out of the air :)
23:21	jcpham	Speaking of snatch
23:21	MisterE	^ :D
23:21	MisterE	.bait
23:21	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6j21wU9Ce1rz4mcdo1_500.jpg
23:22	antephialtic	http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/missing-plane-tweet-elite-daily.jpg
23:22	antephialtic	fucking supermarket tabloids
23:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00378979 = 0.1516 BTC [+] {2}
23:30	Duffer1	http://www.coindesk.com/canadian-bitcoin-exchange-lose-100000-in-attack/
23:30	dexX7	businessweek also copy pasted "SatochiDice"
23:31	Duffer1	You gotta read how they compromised the exchange
23:31	asciilifeform	it's this crap - or, 'shall be delivered.' you are your key.
23:31	asciilifeform	gotta pick.
23:31	mircea_popescu	dexX7 funny huh
23:32	dexX7	"Using only the owner’s name, the thief was allegedly able to ..." wow
23:33	Duffer1	lmao
23:33	asciilifeform	'At no point during the nearly two-hour-long conversation was the caller asked to verify his identity.' << by coughing up a magic number known to every spammer, aha right
23:34	mircea_popescu	"Rogers Data Centres told the Citizen that it is cooperating with the investigation, but that the security issue is not indicative of larger problems at its company."
23:34	mircea_popescu	derp
23:34	asciilifeform	at this point, these folks can be safely considered as lowered into goxerasty
23:35	asciilifeform	anyone who voluntarily does business with them is chumpatron fuel
23:35	mircea_popescu	now this is what i would like to see.
23:35	mircea_popescu	any hoster that does this, fined 100 btc. fixed flat fee.
23:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.00359 = 0.1149 BTC [-] {4}
23:35	mircea_popescu	so everyone knows not to keep over 100 btc in hot wallets, and so every hoster has a serious incentive to do security.
23:35	asciilifeform	by all rights, 'fined' - by the users - 100% of their revenue
23:35	mircea_popescu	nah.
23:36	mircea_popescu	flat fee. you give away a server ? that'll be 100 btc.
23:36	mircea_popescu	story ends there.
23:36	dexX7	http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Ottawa+bitcoin+exchange+defrauded+cyber+currency/9628321/story.html this is better. "Rogers said it has offered Canadian Bitcoins a “credit” as a result of the situation. Grant said the credit was nowhere near sufficient to cover the company’s loss and as a result his firm is contemplating legal action."
23:36	ozbot	Ottawa bitcoin exchange defrauded of $100,000 in cyber currency
23:36	asciilifeform	i can't really picture the local tyrant fining them. now, paying, on the other hand!
23:37	asciilifeform	'here's $100k. lose yer coin'
23:40	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62999992 BTC [+]
23:46	ThickAsThieves	can someone please kill off businessinsider
23:46	ThickAsThieves	fukn useless
23:55	bitcoinpete	asciilifeform: you're right, the cardano isn't the holy grail. but teleportation still is. i've edited the article accordingly.
23:56	bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: link fixed, just deleted that last / and it fixed itself. and i thought you'd like the art bit.
23:57	bitcoinpete	from citizen: "Canadian Bitcoins is the latest bitcoin exchange to be successfully targeted by thieves. Japanese Mt. Gox was forced out of business last month after hackers successfully infiltrated the exchanges’ security and stole as much as $468 million US worth of bitcoin." karpeles is a hacker now?

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