Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-08-21 | 2017-08-23 →
01:02 BingoBoingo Dedicated to our new friend The_Moon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fzJ_AYajA
~ 40 minutes ~
01:43 mircea_popescu !!up brlbg
01:43 deedbot brlbg voiced for 30 minutes.
01:43 brlbg trilema under ddos?
01:43 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701413 << afaik the only benefit educational, and it will follow from cutting apart a live woman and re-sealing her. not out of cutting apart an deviantart drawing.
01:43 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 11:33 spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read.
01:43 mircea_popescu however talented teh artist.
01:44 mircea_popescu brlbg seems a little slow.
01:46 brlbg i get a 'complete' time out
01:47 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701414 << empire is not organised towards "protecting of the proles" or any other statement with the proles as a subject. the proles (understood deductively, as "all people", just as they understand govenment deductively, see prev discussion), as well as the environment generally are the objects, not the subjects of imperial discourse.
01:47 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 11:41 spyked: !~later tell mircea_popescu re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701196 <-- yah, but does protecting the "proles" from own stupidity even make any sense as a statement? sorta relates to idea on Trilema on whether the empire wanted to arrive to this point (can't find it right now). enfranchisement of the stupid directly lead to that.
01:47 mircea_popescu empire is organised towards "functioning economy" ie production of goods, or "functioning culture" ie production of truths. all the subjects in imperial statements are ideals of this kind.
01:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701432 << ah you two know each other ?
01:49 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 12:00 spyked: !!rate valentinbuza 3 fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset
01:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701443 << you know my dear asciilifeform , so did unix.
01:49 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 12:04 asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime
01:51 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701444 << you can work towards the fuck you please. like say the http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=balanced+ternary or the http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=serial+computer or so on.
01:51 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 12:05 spyked: ok, so to sum up; 1. get ice40 fpga; 2. run fpga lisp machine (cadr?); work from that towards symbolics/ivory, or the other way around starting from symbolics.
01:52 mircea_popescu hmm, that last ref is unexpectedly useless. anyway, item discussed in logs recently (and historically), http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677546 etc
01:52 a111 Logged on 2017-06-30 16:51 asciilifeform: so adder, multer, etc, etc all exist simply as devices that hang from 1 set of wires.
01:57 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701453 << why ?
01:57 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 12:12 spyked: asciilifeform, what do you think of minimal baremetal implementation of Lisp (RISC assembly only) on something like a MIPS core? I might be thinking this in too abstract terms, it's definitely not that easy. but I'm trying to find a middle way between working FPGA Lisp machine and Lisp on unix.
01:59 mircea_popescu heh trilema gateway blew up. should be back within hours. thanks for reporting gl.
02:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701494 << i always suspected the item will crumble under examination, but then again i'm just a hater.
02:03 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 14:49 phf: now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits
02:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701493 << he has a point, incidentally. the notion of ~approximating~ numeric machine is about as batshit insane as the notion of concave airplane or open-ended circulatory system.
02:04 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 14:49 asciilifeform: phf: iron floatingpoint Must Die.
02:04 mircea_popescu wtf is wrong with using an int machine like sane people and doing approximations in software, also like sane people ? "oh but it's non intuitive" "to idiots" "well yes"
02:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701518 << the implicit point does not prevail with me because i personally ran a revolution from the very comfortable setting of my burgeois setting. you can ; and in fact the better revolutions go exactly like that.
02:08 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 15:05 phf: to some extent something like that was done in a transition from 36xx to ivory
02:09 mircea_popescu there's no particular requirement that the person building an ironclad factory does not own the sailship drydock in town. on the fucking contrary ; the sign of the drydock owner ~being an idiot~ is their not building an ironclad factory right down the shoreline.
02:10 mircea_popescu your parents being rich and your friendly relations with all the elite of the town and generally your comfortable situation is a fucking baseline, not a high water mark, wtf is this, peaking in highschool like african women ?
02:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701525 << i have no idea why but this is overpowerly funny.
02:12 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 15:06 phf: pff, russian tech. spec is produced by kiril after sit in room with 2 fpga (such luxury, whole two!) and bread for three months
02:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701530 << recall the original "fpga" miners, serials shaved items "while supplies lasted" ?
02:12 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 15:16 asciilifeform begins to suspect that these folx simply got a hold of american raw dies and make a killing mounting them in sov-era specced ceramic cases with gold pins, and calling it 'new production'
02:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701538 << no, the raw die theory is on the mopney.
02:14 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 15:21 asciilifeform: now it is ~possible~ that the spec is disinfo, and in basement of kgb there is a rewritten alteratronic chain. but imho unlikely.
02:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701546 << when ceausescu died there was a very brief revival "we shall roar" orc thing because ~most of us ops in eastern europe got killed / the rest fled. so there was a bit of pushback, all the way to killing dudes way in chicago. it didn't last, principally because sometime mid 90s the decision was taken (by the russkis) the way forward is economical not operational. so ss went the cia w
02:17 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 15:26 asciilifeform: imho it is strange that the contract on him had to wait until ceaucescu dead
02:17 mircea_popescu ay, trynna make money for da rent.
02:17 mircea_popescu easy to condemn this as "a mistake retrospectively", especially if one has nfi what sort of demands an operational approach places on the labour pool.
02:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701554 << incidentally, has anyone tried to talk to the lattice folk ?
02:19 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 21:18 asciilifeform: !~later tell spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701446 >> on second thought, you probably could put this chore off, olimex sells a ice40-8k (largest available) with 512k of sram glued on. and this is theoretically enough to prototype . the more pressing matter is ethernet. ( afaik nobody sells an ice40 + ethernetmagnetics . and just as with ddr dram, answer is 'lattice wants you to use their larger fpgas, with THEIR toolchain'
02:19 mircea_popescu it is ~possible~ they actually don't know what they want / don't want anything specific.
02:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701573 << heh. welcome home.
02:20 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 21:30 spyked hates xilinx with passion. if only because of the bloated software
02:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701590 <<< bwahahaha. fucking retards, final phase idiocy.
02:21 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 21:52 asciilifeform: 'USS John S. McCain' didjaknow.
02:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701598 << 46.166.160.36, 91.218.246.31 also.
02:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 22:22 hanbot: say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate?
02:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701605 << yeah very much, at least a basic starter list of public nodes. mod6 ?
02:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 22:26 hanbot: yeah, ty. i wonder if it wouldn't be wise to update that list monthly as part of reporting etc.
02:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701617 << or even "but you keep asking me for it!"
02:25 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 22:36 asciilifeform: all of the pattern 'have you seen this tx?' 'no...' 'but i sent it to your node and got an ack'
02:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701627 << problem is poverty of mind, not of system. "i don't want to look at large hex strings, they intimidatre me". same exact shit-for-brains that gave us pgp "fingerprints".
02:26 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 22:47 ben_vulpes: i struggle to imagine the poverty of system that behavior was intended to be useful on
02:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701658 << ooobviously. "imperial charity must be defined as opposite of mp definition, we'll omit referncing trilema notwithstanding it is our source"
02:29 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:34 pete_dushenski: "ultimately, the only way that philanthropy is really going to be able to shed its aura of noxious elitism is if the rich give up the reins of control, and allow the poor to make many, many more allocative decisions." << i lolled
02:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701665 << yeh nice. about a block a minute or so.
02:29 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:42 pete_dushenski: in other nodes, my latest 0-fullheight trb sync experiment was completed in a hair under two weeks. nb i say!
02:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701674 << this is actually in the logs. in short, badly written "p2p"
02:30 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:43 pete_dushenski: though i'll be damned if i can gather why it is that -connect'ing to 2+ nodes jams up every few hours whereas just 1 node sync beautifully with no issues for days on end.
02:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701715 << as per ancient alf techs, can just dump the privs later on makes it ok neh :D
02:39 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 02:14 asciilifeform: disclosing privs to empty addrs proves ownership to whoever finds them.
02:40 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701724 |<< eh relax. i do it all the time.
02:40 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 02:22 asciilifeform: imho this hypothetical exercise falls under the banner of Do. Not. Share. Privkeyz. With. Anyone. It. Never. Ends. Well.
02:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701735 << very much this. raid arrays are cheap and easy these days, monodisc systems are a little weird for this reason.
02:42 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 02:48 asciilifeform: it may prove more economical to run spinning disks with slice raid, vs ssd.
02:43 mircea_popescu nothing forbids raiding ssds either.
02:47 BingoBoingo Nothing forbids putting SSDs near a RAIP either
02:50 BingoBoingo A RAIP being a Revolutionary/Raping Array of Independent Penises
02:51 BingoBoingo And Qntra stats shows a resurgence of interest in http://qntra.net/2014/11/buterins-waterfall-a-likbez/ this month
~ 25 minutes ~
03:16 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-8-19#186295 << yup, sorry for the delay
03:19 mircea_popescu hey, some sluts worth waiting for!
03:22 ben_vulpes and how
03:23 ben_vulpes unrelatedly, quest to eradicate commute from my life appears to be drawing to a close!
03:24 ben_vulpes comes complete with ~5% tax cut
03:24 ben_vulpes wired for cat5 even
03:27 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A922DD117C7DBCEA3AFB8DF5085F0A18C37B6C58FA2BA5D6B2A4D56DF0370AED << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1721...8023 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '58.10.74.183 (ssh-rsa key from 58.10.74.183 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cm-58-10-74-183.revip7.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
03:27 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A922DD117C7DBCEA3AFB8DF5085F0A18C37B6C58FA2BA5D6B2A4D56DF0370AED << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1732...7083 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '58.10.74.183 (ssh-rsa key from 58.10.74.183 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cm-58-10-74-183.revip7.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
03:37 mircea_popescu i suppose "i never commuted" should go on my list of "shit i missed out" huh.
03:44 ben_vulpes it is a very ordinary hell
~ 43 minutes ~
04:28 mircea_popescu http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05a-july-theses.html << not bad lulz, huh.
04:29 mircea_popescu and then /me runs into http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05b-https-war-declaration.html and it's like... dawg's been reading trilema has he.
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
05:42 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701761 <-- well, but. "won't somebody think of the children!" this goes on and on. it never happens in fact (as the avg gyppo in the slums of bucharest -- or "banlieue", n'est-ce pas? -- can certify), but it happens in speech. hence attempt to regulation that only increases coefficient of friction in sane economic activity.
05:42 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 05:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701414 << empire is not organised towards "protecting of the proles" or any other statement with the proles as a subject. the proles (understood deductively, as "all people", just as they understand govenment deductively, see prev discussion), as well as the environment generally are the objects, not the subjects of imperial discourse.
05:44 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701764 <-- yes! valentinbuza was student at "computer security" class. very good return-oriented programmer (among others)
05:44 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 05:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701432 << ah you two know each other ?
05:45 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701768 <-- foodforthought. thanks!
05:45 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 05:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701444 << you can work towards the fuck you please. like say the http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=balanced+ternary or the http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=serial+computer or so on.
05:49 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701835 <-- was mostly an exercise in translating from communist "wooden tongue" to english newspeak. a lot of similarities there.
05:49 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 08:28 mircea_popescu: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05a-july-theses.html << not bad lulz, huh.
05:57 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701836 <-- also, starting point for discussions with certain meatwot people who keep insisting that https "just works", and "why don't you propose an alternative", despite their having tried the alternative in ~1st university year.
05:57 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 08:29 mircea_popescu: and then /me runs into http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05b-https-war-declaration.html and it's like... dawg's been reading trilema has he.
~ 19 minutes ~
06:17 valentinbuza spyked, people who are serious about transport security (data in transit) shy away from TLS and they craft their own stripped down version using Noise Protocol Framework (http://noiseprotocol.org/index.html)
~ 19 minutes ~
06:36 shinohai http://archive.is/0TOaA "The US Navy orders "Operational pause" as it teaches sailors to actually navigate waters and use GPS, whilst all llitoral combat ships are refitted with pykrete
~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
07:55 spyked valentinbuza, "Noise is a framework for crypto protocols based on Diffie-Hellman key agreement. Noise can describe protocols that consist of a single message as well as interactive protocols." in what's a tradition here, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dh I'll let the more knowledgeable ppl hammer it.
07:58 asciilifeform dh in the logz is... 'dieharder'
08:01 asciilifeform as for diffie hellman, it is nsatronic , and this is fairly well known at this point ( whether because timing side channel, primes-which-ain't, and other sabotage of concrete implementations- or more fundamentally broken - is unknown )
08:02 asciilifeform the other lul in the 'noise protocol' is the use of symmetric ciphers
08:02 asciilifeform !#s symmetric
08:02 a111 118 results for "symmetric", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=symmetric
08:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474280 << metathread re subj
08:04 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:51 asciilifeform: not a single symmetric cipher other than otp has ever been proven to be worth a sparrow's fart.
08:05 asciilifeform spyked, valentinbuza ^
08:07 asciilifeform the 'noise protocol' link is hilarious -- even features the classic leper's bell of nsa committee , the null-cipher
08:07 asciilifeform '0. No confidentiality. This payload is sent in cleartext.'
08:08 asciilifeform ( implementation becomes an underhanded-C-contest in concealing the fact of ~any~ box running the idiocy reverting to nullcipher on demand )
08:12 asciilifeform pretty typical usg production
08:14 asciilifeform massive pile of moving parts, aes, various post-conversion bernsteinisms, null ciphers, 'this is faster on 32-bit cpu so we're using it', let's-give-enemy-raw-bytes-from-prng, and other jokes.
08:16 asciilifeform on top of all this... betcha the canonical ref implementation is in overflowlang.
08:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701794 << lattice dun make the boards
08:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:19 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701554 << incidentally, has anyone tried to talk to the lattice folk ?
08:25 asciilifeform but lattice per se is EXACTLY like xilinx, same profit model, closed arch, license 'ip cores'. their larger flagship fpga is exactly like xilinx 'spartan', full of proprietary peripherals, and that's the one that tends to get packaged into devboards with nic etc
08:26 asciilifeform primarily because just a basic nic controller itself would take up a whole ice40 ( ice is their low-end, barebones cpld series, and was reverses without any cooperation - through kicking and screaming of, even - lattice co )
08:27 asciilifeform *reversed
08:28 asciilifeform tldr : a serious sanecomp board would feature a , say, 16 x 16 ~grid~ of ice40-8k.
08:28 asciilifeform and would cost a btc or so.
08:31 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701819 << ~actual~ - i.e. ~hardware~ raid -- ain't cheap, even the controller, and mobo with actual slots, for it to sit down in, each cost more than all of zoolag !
08:31 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:42 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701735 << very much this. raid arrays are cheap and easy these days, monodisc systems are a little weird for this reason.
08:33 asciilifeform i use it in workstations. but the cost is imho misplaced in a trb node, which are supposed to be a redundancy layer p2pfully in themselves !
08:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701821 << i do this in my flagship wurkstationx -- but it is expensive, 'trim' dun work properly through hardware raid, they burn even faster than in singles.
08:38 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:43 mircea_popescu: nothing forbids raiding ssds either.
08:39 asciilifeform pro tip : stagger them in age, by 3-4 months, the first time you build a hardware raid5 from ssds
08:40 asciilifeform say you have 4 holes. use 3 mechanicals + 1 ssd, then few months in, replace a mechanical, then again, year later, whole thing is ssd that will not ever simultaneously burn , in theory.
08:40 * asciilifeform uses this method, worx
08:41 asciilifeform if you don't do this -- you are very likely to have all N die at once, on same day.
08:51 asciilifeform trilema still down, btw
~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~
10:14 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FA95E086BED135A67EA6B95E0071AA22CF55152588AB8E540E61F11E802BEE6E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1723...3427 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '191.32.60.22 (ssh-rsa key from 191.32.60.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (191.32.60.22.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br. BR)
10:14 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FA95E086BED135A67EA6B95E0071AA22CF55152588AB8E540E61F11E802BEE6E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1545...8109 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '191.32.60.22 (ssh-rsa key from 191.32.60.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (191.32.60.22.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br. BR)
10:14 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B929C2CA50C9AC4FECF9C063980D211F1FABDFF7E5FBC47809099014E5E92038 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1689...8337 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.186.163 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.186.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ve1097242242.providerbox.net. DE)
10:14 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B929C2CA50C9AC4FECF9C063980D211F1FABDFF7E5FBC47809099014E5E92038 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1673...7539 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.186.163 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.186.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ve1097242242.providerbox.net. DE)
10:19 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701801 << thanks will add these to the list @ http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html
10:19 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701598 << 46.166.160.36, 91.218.246.31 also.
10:20 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701801 << Sounds like there should be a link to the trusted-nodes page in the HOWTO maybe. Also, a once per-month round-up of me asking for Node-Updates, if there are any.
10:20 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701598 << 46.166.160.36, 91.218.246.31 also.
10:22 mod6 I don't think these belong permanently in the SoBA each month. It would be probably a good idea for individuals who own these nodes to sign their Node IP and send that to the btc-dev mailing list. However, I seem to recall some resistance to that.
10:23 asciilifeform mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701611
10:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 22:31 asciilifeform: i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to.
10:23 mod6 I'm open to suggestions for re-name.
10:24 asciilifeform i dun care so much re the name, but elaborating re the resistance.
10:24 mod6 Alright.
10:31 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701786 << asic miners. the original 'asics' were actual shaved fpga. the next gen -- were 'hardcopy fpga', the cheapest fab available, where you just get to define metallization layer and naught else
10:31 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701530 << recall the original "fpga" miners, serials shaved items "while supplies lasted" ?
10:32 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701775 << the original bolix emulator was handwritten in asm for dec alpha ( which is why dks sells (sold?) alphas, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=186 ) . the x86-64 port never ~quite~ worked, it was a hasty c rewrite.
10:32 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701494 << i always suspected the item will crumble under examination, but then again i'm just a hater.
10:34 asciilifeform asciilifeform spent ~years~ sawing both apart in ida. until learned that the whisperers have the source, recently even on shithub.
10:35 asciilifeform when saw that the ~original~ src was a pile of shithacks, lost interest in anything but the electron microscopy path ( like it or not, 1uM process folks were ~forced~ to make compact description )
10:35 asciilifeform 1980s chips were jewels not because of any magic, but because the option of bloat was simply unavailable to hardware designers then.
10:36 asciilifeform you get 300k transistors and that's that, use'em well.
10:37 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701766 << context was, emulated bolix crashes, original iron -- never ( short of physical failure )
10:37 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 05:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701443 << you know my dear asciilifeform , so did unix.
10:37 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701790 << would be interesting to read moar re this
10:37 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 06:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701546 << when ceausescu died there was a very brief revival "we shall roar" orc thing because ~most of us ops in eastern europe got killed / the rest fled. so there was a bit of pushback, all the way to killing dudes way in chicago. it didn't last, principally because sometime mid 90s the decision was taken (by the russkis) the way forward is economical not operational. so ss went the cia w
10:38 * asciilifeform finally eaten l0gz
~ 32 minutes ~
11:11 valentinbuza https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.governance/81gMQeMEL0w << Firefox discussing to anonymously collect browsing data. What browsers are you using?
11:11 asciilifeform valentinbuza: 'lynx' is, i think, quite popular among the folx here
11:14 asciilifeform 'tests how we can collect additional data in a privacy preserving way' << lol!
11:15 valentinbuza gave up chrome long time ago for firefox (with noscript + self destructing cookies). now I should start looking for alternatives.
11:16 asciilifeform all of the graphical wwwtrons are, afaik, ~same.
11:16 asciilifeform ( firefox is the one that has the added 'feature' of eating GBs of ram for no reason )
11:18 valentinbuza "to improve their experience." leads to "Which top sites are users visiting?" :))
11:21 spyked yeah. no reason is in fact "web apps" running arbitrary code efficiently on client machines.
11:23 asciilifeform valentinbuza: didja read today's log ? answr'd re 'noise' etc.
11:25 asciilifeform valentinbuza: logs live at http://btcbase.org/log , http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/today , http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema ( 3 separate d00dz, separate boxes )
11:26 asciilifeform valentinbuza: also recommend to read the mircea_popescu's intro, in the chan greetingline
11:29 valentinbuza linked noise as a partial response to spyked http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05b-https-war-declaration.html. Noise null cipher is an different context than TLS null cipher.
11:29 asciilifeform how does it matter what context ?
11:29 asciilifeform nullcipher has no business being an option. period.
11:30 asciilifeform it exists so that enemy can coax your proggy into switching to it.
11:31 valentinbuza noise is a framework for creating protocols. you have the option to create NOISE_NULL_CIPHER_TOTAL_BS protocol which is totally different from NOISE_ANOTHER_SANE_CHOICE
11:31 asciilifeform this does not explain why this is a standardized feature.
11:32 asciilifeform and why the massive pile of moving parts is necessary.
11:32 valentinbuza it is different from TLS, where whatever version you are using it has null cipher. The question should be: does someone deployed NOISE_NULL_CIPHER_TOTAL_BS? then you can blame them
11:32 asciilifeform WHY IS IT IN THE STANDARD
11:34 valentinbuza don't know. ask Trevor Perrin, maybe he thought of creating all the possible recipes
11:34 asciilifeform and why is diffie hellman in the standard.
11:34 asciilifeform diffie hellman is thoroughly ( and likely irreparably ) porous to nsa.
11:36 valentinbuza also "massive pile of moving parts" << not even close to TLS. as for your other questions i can't really answer.
11:36 asciilifeform tls is not the standard of comparison.
11:36 asciilifeform it is a crock of shit.
11:37 asciilifeform and entirely useless.
11:38 asciilifeform valentinbuza: behold, for instance, http://shop.nosuchlabs.com << a www store that does not and never will use tls/ssl
11:38 asciilifeform nobody here uses tls .
11:38 trinque !#s pki
11:38 a111 84 results for "pki", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pki
11:40 valentinbuza agree on the TLS part. As I told before, Noise was a partial response for spyked blog post (TLS sucks, PKI sucks). Noise is just a somewhat better choice for the TLS sucks part
11:40 asciilifeform mno. it is exactly the same thing, under slightly variant sauce.
11:40 valentinbuza as you can see on the spec, it is not concerned with PKI or your authentication methods, it's up to you
11:40 asciilifeform uses same idiot diffiehell, same idiot symmetric ciphers, same morass of moving parts.
11:42 valentinbuza Ctrl + F : RSA. 1 false positive
11:43 spyked valentinbuza, my issue is that "framework" approach (as used in today's terminology) is utterly anti-engineering. one can (on the condition that they know what they're doing! and there really is no alternative to that) write own software from first principles without requiring 3rd party. or, use 3rd party only to strip of shit and output sane object (e.g. http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=trb ), which is distinct from "framework".
11:43 asciilifeform spyked: trb is very long way from 'sane object' but otherwise yes.
11:45 asciilifeform incidentally all existing systems that do pubkey crypto in real time ( incl. 'noise' ) are trivially breakable by the enemy, because no constant-time numeric stack currently exists publicly.
11:46 valentinbuza probably the word framework is misunderstood. Let's say you want NOISE_CURVE25519_ETC it does not provide you with curve25519 implementation, you have to create you own. It's just a schematic for protocol patterns, not a framework a la "django"
11:46 asciilifeform then it is not definitive and ergo entirely useless even at own stated purpose.
11:47 asciilifeform a 'standard' that consists of 'go and implement whatever you like' is not a standard in any meaningful sense.
11:47 asciilifeform ( and in particular if 'whatever you like' includes diffie hellman and nullcipher )
11:48 valentinbuza i don't find the word 'standard' in the description or in the spec. it's not a standard and should not be seen as one
11:48 asciilifeform then what the hell is it ?
11:52 valentinbuza it's an attempt to make some things better than TLS (or other data in transit protocol) as opposed to other ways of creating software such as "we use TLS because it's standard, we have no clue what to do and just use what everybody is using" and sell it as military grade
11:53 asciilifeform it is in no way whatsoever better.
11:53 asciilifeform exactly same set of idiocies, repackaged in 'modern' flavour.
11:54 asciilifeform valentinbuza: lemme guess, you are the victim of a recent university 'education' ? got quite bit of unlearning to do.
11:57 valentinbuza probably. but i think that your argument is invalid because you say that "in TLS ingredients suck and recipe sucks" and "in Noise ingredients suck therefore the recipe also sucks"
11:57 asciilifeform a recipe that explicitly features liquishit -- suxx
11:57 asciilifeform this is not a debateable point.
11:58 spyked re schematic for protocol patterns, why not use e.g. petri nets for the model (assuming that works) then just implement from that? why add extra software? ehm. it seems like they're trying to automate some work, but that automation trades off actual understanding, i.e. by introducing (IMHO useless) levels of abstraction.
11:58 asciilifeform both tls and 'noise' are the products of exactly the same type of broken mind.
11:59 asciilifeform ( generously 'helped' by nsa assets )
12:04 valentinbuza asciilifeform, two things can suck and one can suck less. But instead of throwing a lot of arguments, why not propose your ingredients and recipes?
12:04 valentinbuza i saw, OTP is one
12:04 spyked valentinbuza, to exemplify asciilifeform's point ^ I shall quote from the docs: "A Noise protocol begins with two parties exchanging handshake messages. During this handshake phase the parties exchange DH public keys and perform a sequence of DH operations" <-- this requires me to import a couple of concepts: handshake messages, DH public keys, there may be others along the line. now, given that my crypto brain-memory module is not
12:04 spyked loaded (because I don't use this day-to-day), I must consult these items in great detail. my guess here is that once I have spent all the time to learn, the "framework" becomes useless, because the mental framework is in place.
12:05 asciilifeform valentinbuza: i regard the entire concept of 'real time automated public key crypto' as a scam, and anyone claiming to offer such a thing, as a scammer, until constant time rsa routines are public.
12:05 spyked on the other hand, if I take these items for granted, joke's on me, which is exactly what "modern engineering" philosophy relies on.
12:06 asciilifeform spyked nails it.
12:06 asciilifeform the 'framework' is a null, a donut without a hole.
12:06 asciilifeform or rather, hole without donut.
12:07 asciilifeform the ~actual~ purpose of the attempted 'frameworks' is to drill into your skull and install the idea that nullcipher, diffiehellman, aes, are acceptable things to exist in this world, and can be pushed as 'cryptography'
12:07 asciilifeform whereas they serve the exact opposite purpose.
12:08 asciilifeform the second purpose of tls, 'noise', and every other 'protocol' published, is to install in your head the idea that it is acceptable for a cryptosystem to consist of 50kLines of c.
12:08 asciilifeform ( or greater still )
12:09 asciilifeform and to not be readable+fullygraspable by one man in a few hours.
12:09 valentinbuza 'time to learn, the "framework" becomes useless, because the mental framework is in place.' << my guess is not, but I don't think we have a conclusion on this with a sample of 2 points
12:10 asciilifeform valentinbuza: the 'frameworks' are the fruits of poison tree
12:11 asciilifeform valentinbuza: do you know what lustration is ?
12:13 spyked valentinbuza, maybe not, but then if you have everything loaded in head, the most you can do is rip the useless parts apart and leave *only* what fits into the problem at hand. which turns "framework" into "item that solves particular problem". it is essential to not leave *anything else* there.
12:14 shinohai This is why we have asciilifeform 's "fits in head" (tm) (r) (tmsr)
12:15 spyked think about it, the problem of e.g. C software is that unsanitized inputs let users do *whatever* they like with it, i.e. arbitrary computetion. which goes way beyond program specification.
12:15 spyked *computation
12:17 asciilifeform spyked: more fundamentally, it is ~impossible to write a nontrivial c proggy without pointer arithmetic, and it is ~impossible to meaningfully prove the correctness of a nontrivial program involving pointer arithmetic.
12:18 spyked also, http://wiki.c2.com/?GreenspunsTenthRuleOfProgramming somewhat relevant. the more your program claims to do, the more of a chance it's gonna be used for unintended purposes.
12:19 asciilifeform spyked: ~any~ unanticipated behaviour of your program, is proof that it did ~not~ fit in your (the author's!) head
12:22 spyked yes, and C is I think it's a good example to illustrate the larger issue. it's a snowball thing, in the sense that it's sometimes enough to have 1 hole to break everything. incidentally most recent popularized vulns (not necessarily in C) fit there.
12:23 spyked shellshock: "let's call this general-purpose function that executes programs in a shell".
12:23 asciilifeform 1 hole is -- definitionally -- enough-to-break-everything
12:33 mod6 hai
12:33 asciilifeform ohai mircea_popescu
12:33 mircea_popescu hola!
12:33 asciilifeform yer www is still dead
12:33 mircea_popescu i know i know.
12:34 mircea_popescu fiat isps.
12:34 asciilifeform colibri climbed into exhaust pipe ?
12:34 asciilifeform lolk
12:35 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701847 << in this case, they actually work on gossipd. you seen that ? sina/peterl made mockups.
12:35 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 10:17 valentinbuza: spyked, people who are serious about transport security (data in transit) shy away from TLS and they craft their own stripped down version using Noise Protocol Framework (http://noiseprotocol.org/index.html)
12:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701848 << "the us navy" "inexplicably" forgets to correctly state "as mp has long pointed out on trilema, we are not actually either battle capable or operationally ready ; just like the rest of the usg."
12:36 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 10:36 shinohai: http://archive.is/0TOaA "The US Navy orders "Operational pause" as it teaches sailors to actually navigate waters and use GPS, whilst all llitoral combat ships are refitted with pykrete
12:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701860 << heh.
12:37 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 12:08 asciilifeform: ( implementation becomes an underhanded-C-contest in concealing the fact of ~any~ box running the idiocy reverting to nullcipher on demand )
12:37 shinohai And I thank thee, mircea_popescu , fpr reminding me that the US Navy + Pykrete = eterenal meme
12:37 asciilifeform shinohai: gotta nitpick, pykrete was (rejected by) british navy. ( back when there was a british navy )
12:37 mircea_popescu it's the sawdust that keeps on giving!
12:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and your point is ?
12:38 shinohai ^
12:38 mircea_popescu wait, is it because india names its ships NSS Blabla sopmething we're supposed to believe "that's just what';s done" ? rather than "oh look, orc HMS!!!" ?
12:38 asciilifeform it's like putting napoleon in a tricorn.
12:38 asciilifeform but yes.
12:39 mircea_popescu there is no substantial difference between us and british navy just like there's no substantial difference between us and nazy atomic program.
12:39 mircea_popescu the former is just where the later ran to.
12:39 asciilifeform well today there ain't any british at all, only 'airstrip one'
12:39 shinohai If I paint `TMSR` in gold lettering on my bathtub boats, am I now admiral of Navy?
12:39 mircea_popescu right.
12:40 asciilifeform shinohai: no, but if you paint it on bathtub!11
12:40 shinohai S.S.M.P
12:41 asciilifeform '... and if the tub had been stronger, my song would have been longer'
12:41 mircea_popescu lol
12:41 mircea_popescu we should get ice-cube trays with various TMSR ship names on the inside.
12:41 mircea_popescu have littoral combat icecubes at parties.
12:41 mircea_popescu "while ship lasts"
12:42 shinohai Raised lettering, so it is imprinted on ice as it solidifies
12:42 mircea_popescu exactly.
12:42 asciilifeform clitoral combat ship
12:42 shinohai kek
12:42 mircea_popescu no that's different.
12:43 mircea_popescu clitoral combat ship = wartenberg wheel
12:43 shinohai Our Navy is so much more vast and complicated
12:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701866 << nevermind ; still should talk to them.
12:44 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 12:25 asciilifeform: but lattice per se is EXACTLY like xilinx, same profit model, closed arch, license 'ip cores'. their larger flagship fpga is exactly like xilinx 'spartan', full of proprietary peripherals, and that's the one that tends to get packaged into devboards with nic etc
12:44 * shinohai is prod to assert that he knows a woman irl skilled in the handling of wartenberg wheel
12:45 shinohai *proud
12:45 mircea_popescu is she a neurosurgeon's nurse ?
12:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you'd like to pen a 'can haz the pill against your $B 'intellektual property' racket for phreee? ' letter to lattice, go ahead. i did xilinx.
12:46 asciilifeform ( the answer, quite unsurprisingly, never came )
12:46 mircea_popescu not a matter of that. a matter of, hey, we're actually significantly smarter than you, come hang out, who knows, maybe you gain something.
12:46 asciilifeform after that let's write to obummer and ask for the aes pill.
12:46 mircea_popescu that's the fucking position, wtf do i want FROM a bunch of fiat rottinculo.
12:46 asciilifeform dunno, unconditional capitulation?
12:47 asciilifeform what does one ever want from'em
12:47 mircea_popescu i don't specifically care. it's a simple "come see whether you are good enough to seep people into your company or lose all your brain power to our better model".
12:48 asciilifeform i suspect these and other derps know what the answer is. ergo still sitting in bunker, taking in the wagner an' cyanide.
12:48 mircea_popescu it's important to find out, after all most fiat unis/tech corps/whatever actually to this day harbor the managerial delusion that they can in fact compete with the republic on a flesh basis.
12:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in my experience they've no clue.
12:48 asciilifeform they dun have ~with what~ to have clue.
12:49 mircea_popescu right. that reverts to the null cipher.
12:49 asciilifeform amoeba dun have with what.
12:49 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
12:49 asciilifeform goxlag!111
12:49 mircea_popescu heh
12:49 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3960.0, vol: 20588.27113964 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3960.0, vol: 53677.78176461 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4037.538399, vol: 22536.54470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3984.0, vol: 9236.13133613 | Volume-weighted last average: 3978.56976943
12:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701877 << not such a good idea to mix different types.
12:50 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 12:40 asciilifeform: say you have 4 holes. use 3 mechanicals + 1 ssd, then few months in, replace a mechanical, then again, year later, whole thing is ssd that will not ever simultaneously burn , in theory.
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what can i say, it worked great, for the year+
12:50 asciilifeform naturally runs at speed of slowest disk.
12:51 asciilifeform ( in raid5 )
12:51 mircea_popescu but yes, the principle is correct : make raid out of same items, then a few months in change one. though it doesn't need to be changed. then use THAT in the next raid you build.
12:51 mircea_popescu so they're not all same age.
12:51 asciilifeform aha
12:51 mircea_popescu as age is a great predictor of ssd failure and the shits are perfectly capable of dying same week.
12:52 mircea_popescu (raid reconstruct is io intensive, could push over the edge the redundancy, dying disk)
12:52 asciilifeform not merely predictor -- it gets finite writes in each block, after that -- it's a rom
12:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah, which aspect makes them slightly better than spinsters, which actually become unreadable.
12:53 asciilifeform cheap ( 'sandisk' and a few others ) actually become unreadable, the controller decides to shit itself when it can't find writable blocks
12:53 asciilifeform now try this idea on for size : picture a 'btcfs' that knows how to use a dead ssd
12:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701887 << actually ima put the link in topic. standby.
12:53 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 14:20 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701801 << Sounds like there should be a link to the trusted-nodes page in the HOWTO maybe. Also, a once per-month round-up of me asking for Node-Updates, if there are any.
12:53 asciilifeform ( old blox ain't ever gonna change )
12:54 mircea_popescu not a bad idea at all ; was going to come up when we were finally making the tmsr hdd controllers. but even early dun hurt anything.
12:54 mircea_popescu hmm, not putting it in topic, putting it in http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ once i get that thing online again.
12:55 asciilifeform ( if making own 'disks' -- use otp roms for blockchain. as discussed in old thread. now if only somebody still made otp roms !! )
12:55 asciilifeform point remains, it is the Wrong Thing to use flippable registers to store bits that ain't EVER supposed to flip.
12:56 mircea_popescu sure.
12:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701900 << ehehe ain't that the truth.
12:56 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 14:35 asciilifeform: when saw that the ~original~ src was a pile of shithacks, lost interest in anything but the electron microscopy path ( like it or not, 1uM process folks were ~forced~ to make compact description )
12:57 mircea_popescu switch over my shoulder grinning and bobbing her head. "yeah, what men need to perform is constriction."
12:57 mircea_popescu she's a slavegirl here ; otherwise luvs torturing bois in her free time.
12:57 asciilifeform outpatient, presumably?
12:57 mircea_popescu nobody's chained to the place!
12:57 mircea_popescu well, the noobies, but briefly.
12:59 mircea_popescu the point is not without merit, though. ~all the competent, at artisan level, males, the dudes working leather and metal and wood and whatnot ~competently~ are virtually all 50 yo doods with very much a slave mentality.
13:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701905 << the skinning of the cat costs in excess of the pelt. suffice it to say that there's a reason all 80s "Spy films" are about how "there's a list of EVERY AGENT and the soviets MIGHT get it" bla bla dramas.
13:01 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 14:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701790 << would be interesting to read moar re this
13:01 asciilifeform sorta the main diff b/w 'terrorist' cells org, and usg-style org, neh. the latter in fact has a 'crown jewels list-of-every' somewhere in it.
13:02 mircea_popescu amusingly enough, the fear of one generation became the reality of the next. funny how it never worked that way re nuke ; but did work that way re craft.
13:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the actual reason, i am persuaded, is that the formerly VERY competitive, fragmented talent finally pooled starting mid 1989 and ending six months later.
13:03 mircea_popescu it was a case of "the inept management died, and the bright kids republiced in their absence". blasted through everything.
13:03 asciilifeform as in late '90s ru
13:03 mircea_popescu but romania ended up with a competent secret service mostly through infiltrating kgb, not through competition with the deeply inept burgeoises.
13:04 mircea_popescu it was decent and no more back when the principal target was the german kingdom. same exact evolution in tito's aglutination, actually.
13:04 * asciilifeform recalls the siguranța agent in ye olde #ba
13:05 mircea_popescu that was more the internal protection thing.
13:05 mircea_popescu sorta homeland security item
13:06 mircea_popescu !#s moruzov
13:06 a111 1 result for "moruzov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=moruzov
13:06 mircea_popescu hm.
13:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform would prolly enjoy guy's bio
13:07 mircea_popescu zaporoj dood.
13:07 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702083 << this is entirely true : carpenter is not free to ~negotiate with the task~, only with the wood. now for engineer, you also need a built-in ~master~ in yer head, aka ' царь в голове '. but at no point does unconstrained amoeba brain become a craftsman or engineer.
13:07 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 16:59 mircea_popescu: the point is not without merit, though. ~all the competent, at artisan level, males, the dudes working leather and metal and wood and whatnot ~competently~ are virtually all 50 yo doods with very much a slave mentality.
13:07 asciilifeform or soldier, or general, or anything else.
13:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'the romanian canaris' lol
13:08 mircea_popescu quite.
13:09 mircea_popescu dude was fascinating though. completely inept linguistically, entirely uncultivated (no highschool degree). undeterred.
13:09 mircea_popescu he'd go consult with mp with a list of questions, and MEMORIZE the fucking answers.
13:09 mircea_popescu one of the rare cases where sheer discipline carried the day.
13:15 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701911 << lynx / links etc. seriously.
13:15 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:15 valentinbuza: gave up chrome long time ago for firefox (with noscript + self destructing cookies). now I should start looking for alternatives.
13:16 mircea_popescu it may seem offputting at first, "where's my rounded corners" reaction. then if you stick with it for a few weeks you might discover the IMMENSE productivity gains of text-only.
13:18 mircea_popescu 1. because every fucking half second a page takes to load has an immense cost, in that you SWITCH. very much a case of http://archive.is/wkeMJ#selection-209.572-209.641
13:19 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702072 << ok awesome! will do a regular round-up to make sure it stays up-to-date.
13:19 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 16:54 mircea_popescu: hmm, not putting it in topic, putting it in http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ once i get that thing online again.
13:19 mircea_popescu 2. eye trying to orient in the "user friendly" graphical bloat is an incomprehensibly huge wastage of bioresources.
13:20 mircea_popescu and finally of course there's the important 3. pages that fail to work through this process are very rarely worth reading, you basically gain an entry filter more valuable than readily intuited.
13:20 mircea_popescu all these together add up to triple digit productivity gains.
13:21 mircea_popescu man who uses computer to do work never fails to discover this. the only thing is that most children start their intellectual life using computers for entertainment (which is entirely natural) and the transition happens naturally only if child is exposed to environment that permits manhood.
13:22 mircea_popescu otherwise, stays child / vaguely transitions into cvasi-girl over time.
13:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701913 <<< it's not just that. firefox rendering engine has been forever broken, since version 5 or so. i dunno what version they're at by now, 60 or 160 or w/e, but they never actyually got the manpower together to fix the problem. which problem is -- not memory stable!!! most gfx pages will eat up firefox memory at linear rate over time. which means that the browser will always crash, no m
13:24 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:16 asciilifeform: ( firefox is the one that has the added 'feature' of eating GBs of ram for no reason )
13:24 mircea_popescu atter what, eventually.
13:25 mircea_popescu can't keep pages open.
13:25 asciilifeform aha
13:25 asciilifeform i can't fathom how anybody uses it
13:25 asciilifeform must be for the 'i'ma boot up my aol station, check aol, and switch off 10 min later' people.
13:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701914 << lolz, "how about we put an alexa toolbar into the very browser ?!?!?! got knows we meanwhile managed to import all the other spamshits from the 90s!". https://verkoren.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/and-the-award-for-most-spam-toolbars-installed-in-your-ie-browser-goes-to.jpg
13:26 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:18 valentinbuza: "to improve their experience." leads to "Which top sites are users visiting?" :))
13:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: unfortunately the 'mega productivity boost' dun work for maths. asciilifeform goes through many kg of laser print paper each mo.
13:27 mircea_popescu that's because math is not principally i/o
13:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-17#1699732 << unfortunately sometimes -- is.
13:27 a111 Logged on 2017-08-17 20:30 asciilifeform: but in very other olds, apparently in an obscure article in '09 bernstein shows how to eliminate one of the middle-term additions of karatsuba .
13:37 asciilifeform !!up r0nin-
13:37 deedbot r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
13:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701918 << actually, either of you two could make a logotron. it's a fine learning exercise. make it in lisp ; make it in v ; use whatever you're trying to learn.
13:37 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:26 asciilifeform: valentinbuza: also recommend to read the mircea_popescu's intro, in the chan greetingline
13:37 r0nin- howdy mircea
13:37 mircea_popescu kinda the purpose of this.
13:38 mircea_popescu r0nin- don't tell me you got fresh reading recommendations ?
13:38 r0nin- ive got tailoring recommendations this time
13:38 mircea_popescu o.O
13:38 mod6 :D
13:39 r0nin- whats a decent suit go for there anyway in argentina?
13:39 mircea_popescu the one i picked up when ben_vulpes was visiting set me back 10k.
13:39 r0nin- pesos or dollars
13:40 mircea_popescu pesos. bout 600 bux.
13:40 r0nin- full bespoke
13:40 mircea_popescu yes. main street shop, down by
13:40 mircea_popescu hm dude how quicly one forgets. wtf was it, cabildo cartago lessee
13:40 r0nin- how they doing that? fabric is like $100 a meter
13:41 mircea_popescu i paid for the fabric when i ordered it.
13:41 r0nin- so 600 + fabric
13:41 mircea_popescu r0nin- cordoba, if memory serves 800 or so.
13:42 r0nin- pretty cheap
13:42 mircea_popescu r0nin- not terrible. old jew, knows his trade. anyway fabric varies wildly, this was a light linen thing. they'll make it out of anything, including bring-your-own
13:42 r0nin- well its a very good price compared to europe
13:43 mircea_popescu but yes, tailoring tourism fits well with argentina. land, go straight to tailor, have measures taken, go to exedra or w/e pick up a coupla hookers, come back a week later pick up your half dozen suits and jump into plane.
13:43 mircea_popescu 4-5k for the tickets + 4-5k for the hotel + 4-5k for the whores + 4.5k for the suits = 20k and you've a bunch of stories to tell.
13:43 r0nin- Rome 3k euro for anyone that knows what they are doing
13:44 mircea_popescu i know plenty of people spending a lot more for a week's vacation and getting a whole lot less.
13:45 r0nin- linen is a 1 wear though before it needs a press from the wrinkles
13:45 mircea_popescu oh, yeah, that suit's dead by now. but it served well in the heat.
13:46 mod6 I should have gotten a few.
13:46 asciilifeform northkr could make a tourist killing, offer tailored vinylon suits
13:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform shocking how many buyers tolerate the synthetics these days.
13:47 r0nin- lol
13:47 mod6 Damn heat + humidity up here is starting to get annoying everyday.
13:47 asciilifeform vinylon is the good synthetic
13:47 asciilifeform dun burn, dun melt, dirt won't stick
13:47 r0nin- whats vinylon
13:47 mircea_popescu anyway, rome is not really on the map for the sartorial gentleman. and the only thing that puts italy on the map is marcha, go pick a few pairs of shoes.
13:47 r0nin- Rome is on the map becuase of caraceni
13:48 asciilifeform r0nin-: 1930s japanese patent.
13:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc gorbachev got his in rome
13:48 asciilifeform ( suits )
13:48 mircea_popescu r0nin- i guess. anyone's entitled to his own favoritas.
13:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, in the 70s. it ain't the 70s anymore.
13:48 mircea_popescu tell you what though : in the 70s everyone was getting his hjookers in italy, from visconti to the swiss.
13:48 r0nin- italian tailors are all dieing off
13:48 mircea_popescu back then the italians knew hunger.
13:49 r0nin- new gen doesnt want to apprentice
13:49 mircea_popescu or to anything, really. they'll reddit, that's about it.
13:49 mircea_popescu and why should they! human rights! living wage! no rape!
13:49 r0nin- www.tommyegiuliocaraceni.com/
13:49 r0nin- rome is worth it for them alone
13:50 mircea_popescu nobody goes "oh fuck, unemployment among < 25 yos is 50% ? hahaha! pick up all kids, beat them for a week solid, then see."
13:50 mircea_popescu tell them, too. it;'s either unemploymenty under 2% or beatings for a week straight each month.
13:50 mircea_popescu wtf is this "We'll solve the problems for them". no, bitch. we think the unemployment among X group is too high, that group gets beaten until it fixes it!
13:51 ben_vulpes wasn't that the premise of 'austerity'?
13:51 ben_vulpes greek thing, i guess.
13:51 r0nin- austerity was to remove all $ from economy to protect bondholders
13:52 r0nin- drive wages to as close to zero as possible
13:52 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes ayup, exactly./
13:52 mircea_popescu r0nin- ayup. and it is the correct move if you'ere not willing to actually beat the fuckers.
13:52 mircea_popescu but i very much recommend actual, physical, public-pillory beatings.
13:53 r0nin- government created trillions in new fiat to bail out financial sector and then they told everyone they have to accept 90% wage reductions
13:54 r0nin- mircea: why should everyone be impoverished so a few misers can stare at their shitty bonds?
13:54 mircea_popescu because everyone fucked up.
13:54 r0nin- how
13:54 mircea_popescu i don't care how. this isn't explainy hour. the cooperation of the fucker-upper is neither sought nor required.
13:55 mircea_popescu let them fucking figure out how. i just give out the signal if.
13:55 r0nin- the fucker upper was the bondholder
13:55 mircea_popescu the signal how is their fucking problem.
13:55 mircea_popescu r0nin- absolutely not. money didn't fail.
13:55 mircea_popescu labour failed.
13:55 r0nin- yes compound interest once again overwhelmhed the economies ability to keep up
13:55 mircea_popescu capital failing situation is eg, enemy bombardment. then capital fails, then you protect labour.
13:56 shinohai Oh mircea_popescu , you forgot to tell me that (x) altcoin was going TO TEH MOON
13:56 r0nin- no economic engine in history can keep up with compounding interest
13:56 mircea_popescu i did ?!
13:56 mircea_popescu r0nin- veneta kept up for a millenium. no SOCIALIST system in history can keep up with its socialism, which is why roman empire and usian empire both crapped.
13:56 mircea_popescu and all empires in between.
13:56 r0nin- roman empire collapsed becuase of usury
13:56 mircea_popescu but commercial republic is undefeatable.
13:57 r0nin- soldiers lost all their farms due to compounding
13:57 mircea_popescu r0nin- roman empire collapsed because of welfare.
13:57 mircea_popescu mno.
13:57 r0nin- more and more wealth concentrated into latifundas
13:57 mircea_popescu that was a defensive, not an agressive play.
13:57 r0nin- youve got it the opposite, overtime compounding outstrips the economies ability to generate surplus
13:57 mircea_popescu wealth concentrated in latifundias to protect itself from the inept mismanagement of soldiers who had become welfare cases over a century since marian's obamacare.
13:58 mircea_popescu no, i've got the facts and you've got teh mantras.
13:58 r0nin- the soldiers werent around they were out battling
13:58 mircea_popescu lol right.
13:58 r0nin- their farms got posted as collateral for high interest rates
13:58 mircea_popescu nonsense. after 20-25 years of battling, soldier got money and land.
13:58 mircea_popescu early soldier cultivated it and built a civilisation. late soldier attempted to live above his means to justify socially his internal ineptitude.
13:59 r0nin- how do you live beyond your means? all consumption is a result of present production
13:59 mircea_popescu much exactly like the history of the us, except stretched over 3x the time.
13:59 mircea_popescu by eating the capital.
13:59 mircea_popescu !#s burn sofa
13:59 a111 3 results for "burn sofa", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=burn%20sofa
13:59 r0nin- what happened was all the $ went into so few hands you had deflation everywhere
13:59 r0nin- becuase a rich miser is hoarding
13:59 mircea_popescu psssh.
14:00 r0nin- deflation kills off consumption so you get a situation where theres literally no market to sell your produce in
14:00 mircea_popescu understand something : a new chicken is born on a farm. this chicken grows into either capital good or else consumption. THE SAME chicken.
14:00 r0nin- while interest payments keep growing
14:00 r0nin- yes
14:00 mircea_popescu they started eating their chickens. living above means.
14:00 mircea_popescu that's what it is.
14:00 r0nin- interest continues no matter the productive capacity of the farm
14:01 mircea_popescu and the undersranding of this being what it is, is universal. flaubert has piece explaining how dr bovary sucked at farming because he ate his farm.
14:01 mircea_popescu that's 1800s. throughout, everywhere, including the self-same romans understand this.
14:01 r0nin- they didnt eat their farms
14:01 r0nin- they lost them all
14:01 r0nin- became serfs
14:01 mircea_popescu which is why they had the office of the censor, and which is why it was illegal for the womenz to wear expensive textiles, and so on.
14:01 mircea_popescu no, they ate their farms. exactly as how 1600s frenchmen ate their farms, became "french republic" because too poor to continue kingdom.
14:01 r0nin- if you have 100% private debt to gdp, and 3% interest, even if you economy expands at 3% all the gains go to interest
14:02 r0nin- thats what europe and US is at now
14:02 mircea_popescu living above means -> economic failure -> ra ra socialism -> guillotine. that's how the engine works.
14:02 r0nin- thats wrong
14:02 mircea_popescu then guillotine brings in a new normal in terms of social proofs, which allows the cycle to start over.
14:02 r0nin- all output was taken by rentiers
14:02 mircea_popescu in a dozen or so cycles, france goes from main country in the world to footnote in geographical area.
14:02 r0nin- what farm can expand at 10% every year?
14:02 trinque god if only the rentiers would give back our precious appstore wealth
14:02 mircea_popescu happened to rome, happened to paris, happened to london.
14:03 r0nin- every single one of those examples is riddled with usury
14:03 * mircea_popescu shrugs.
14:03 r0nin- its basic mathematics here
14:03 r0nin- rome had interest rates from 7-20%, made it impossible for farms to keep increasing output
14:03 mircea_popescu your usury thing is not unlike linking organized crime with belt buckles. because belt buckles present at all shootings! and made of tin-copper alloy!
14:03 mircea_popescu alien nonsense.
14:04 asciilifeform r0nin-: 'rome had..' how ? martians landed , imposed ?
14:04 mircea_popescu r0nin- farm doesn't HAVE to increase output. if the sconto rate is too high, i will simply sell an extra egg and invest.
14:04 mircea_popescu and keep doing this until the economy is too flush with savings to keep the rates high.
14:04 r0nin- no your egg sale goes to interest payments
14:04 mircea_popescu i do not owe anyone anything.
14:04 mircea_popescu im a man not a fucktard.
14:05 mircea_popescu and if the rates are high, i increase savings and push the rates down.
14:05 asciilifeform betcha r0nin- thinks usa has a 'mortgage crisis', not a fucktard crisis, even
14:05 r0nin- no you dont lol
14:05 mircea_popescu hurr.
14:05 r0nin- interest rates are not a function of savings
14:05 mircea_popescu because why, because i gotta spend money i don't have on suits i can't afford to impress r0nin- ?
14:05 r0nin- how many times does that myth have to be told
14:05 mircea_popescu i don't need to impress him.
14:05 asciilifeform r0nin-: if you don't borrow, your interest rate is 0
14:05 mircea_popescu again, because man, and because don't owe anyone anything.
14:05 asciilifeform r0nin-: in rome today, or in rome 100ad
14:06 r0nin- theres no such thing as an economy without credit
14:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no but in the country where "everyone agreed" not to save, then savings depressing rate is a myth. much like in class where "the class community" has agreed not to do any homework, the punishment for missing homework is a myth.
14:06 mircea_popescu they agree among themselves, and they matter!
14:07 r0nin- you are confusing nominal financial savings with real savings
14:07 mircea_popescu hurr.
14:07 r0nin- a productive farm is a real saving
14:07 mircea_popescu you pay interest on nominal debt not on real debt.
14:07 r0nin- financial savings are abstract
14:07 r0nin- yes
14:07 mircea_popescu whole fucking principle of interest is based on nominalism.
14:07 r0nin- rome was a usury economy
14:07 mircea_popescu and IT EXISTS so as to bring the names in coupling with reality.
14:07 r0nin- interest is not a natural occuring element
14:08 mircea_popescu that's why socialists hate interest so much : because it is the prick that deflates the nominalist balloons into the reality shapes subiacent.
14:08 asciilifeform !!up r0nin-
14:08 deedbot r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
14:08 mircea_popescu forces the tethering of words to means.
14:08 r0nin- socialists dont hate interest
14:08 asciilifeform i wanna hear how 'natural' is to borrow from others for phree
14:08 mircea_popescu r0nin- not all of them speak of it ; all hate it like you do.
14:08 r0nin- socialism comes about as a reaction to deflation brought about by compounding
14:08 r0nin- its the pus that forms when the body politic is sick of capitalism
14:09 mircea_popescu mno. socialism comes about as the young failure discovers other kids can in fact morph into adults.
14:09 mircea_popescu it's simple statement of envy.
14:09 r0nin- as i said mircea its simple math.
14:09 r0nin- no economy can keep up with the power of compounding
14:09 mircea_popescu socialism is 100% a 12yo girl noticing the other girl has tits and she doesn't. that's where socialism is born, in the 7th grade class.
14:09 r0nin- government came in and created trillions of fiat to bail out bondholders
14:09 r0nin- and told the rest of the economy they have to massively shrink and somehow still pay
14:09 mircea_popescu summer ends, girls come back to school, some with tits. the ones without -- discover socialism. that first week in september.
14:10 r0nin- mircea: do you understand spending = income?
14:10 mircea_popescu mno.
14:10 r0nin- there is no savings without spending.
14:10 mircea_popescu hurr.
14:10 r0nin- if you reduce spending you reduce income
14:10 r0nin- contracting output and increasing debt ratios
14:11 mircea_popescu if you reduce spending you reduce REAL consumption and NOMINAL income
14:11 r0nin- yes
14:11 r0nin- meaning business shuts doors.
14:11 mircea_popescu that's the fucking problem. the bezzle rate = difference between real and nominal growth.
14:11 mircea_popescu reduction in spending slows down the growth of the bezzle.
14:11 r0nin- interest rates are a abstract they can be whatever
14:11 r0nin- the natural rate of interest in any economy is zero.
14:11 mircea_popescu not in any economy. only in the cemetery economy.
14:11 mircea_popescu when everyone's dead, inflation rate is zero.
14:12 r0nin- becuase as i said if you take 2 100 bills and put them in a shelf they dont produce children.
14:12 mircea_popescu the nominal money has nothing to do with this.
14:12 r0nin- inflation = compound interest.
14:12 r0nin- all economies with high inflation have high interest rates
14:12 mircea_popescu meh he's back into stupid mode.
14:12 mircea_popescu !!down r0nin-
14:12 mircea_popescu this place is for reading AND FOR CHANGING YOURSELF.
14:12 mircea_popescu this place dun change to accomodate you.
14:13 asciilifeform naggum's 'cdrom brains'
14:13 mircea_popescu wtf is with this nonsensical "now i will repeat debunked nonsense insistently!" mode.
14:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701923 << dja see the problem with this ?
14:14 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:31 valentinbuza: noise is a framework for creating protocols. you have the option to create NOISE_NULL_CIPHER_TOTAL_BS protocol which is totally different from NOISE_ANOTHER_SANE_CHOICE
14:14 mircea_popescu consider fucking for a moment.
14:14 mircea_popescu some kids who couldn't get laid got together and created... a framework for... other people getting laid.
14:14 mircea_popescu this sound familiar ? and if familiar, does it still make sense ?
14:15 mircea_popescu (no, i don't just mean reddit pick-up artistry. anglican church same exact thing.)
14:16 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701928 << yes, yes, but ~why~ does he think in that manner ? and why isn't he here ? and how are these two failures of his related ?
14:16 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:34 valentinbuza: don't know. ask Trevor Perrin, maybe he thought of creating all the possible recipes
14:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701941 << the dispute you ended up in is due to the fact that he recognizes a pattern you do not. whether you will come to recognize it in time or not is an open matter, and not required for the discussion. the point is, the way the empire resolves the problem of practical failure (tls is a piece of shit ; socialism is risible bullshit) is to take refuge in meta (here's a tls-framework! let'
14:19 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:40 valentinbuza: as you can see on the spec, it is not concerned with PKI or your authentication methods, it's up to you
14:19 mircea_popescu s talk about empathy!).
14:20 mircea_popescu this ever-meta-regression is a prominent feature of broken ideal systems, a good model for which is of course adolescentine "irony".
14:21 mircea_popescu girl notices she dun have tits, is "ironic" about it ; that dun help, she's "ironic" about it not working, becomes janine garofalo. PROBLEM SOLVED! and if not solved, can always be ironic about being janine garofalo.
14:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701949 << very much a standard in the proper sense. standard should specify what must be specified, and NOT specifiy what needn't be specified. which is why all tmsr standards, or at least the ones i wrote, have this very prominent characteristic. "do it whichever way you do it". connects straight up with ye olde specificity of diddling.
14:24 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:47 asciilifeform: a 'standard' that consists of 'go and implement whatever you like' is not a standard in any meaningful sense.
14:25 asciilifeform do IT whichever way you do IT
14:25 asciilifeform not 'do whatever'
14:25 mircea_popescu there is that.
14:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701957 << no, his objection actually is "tls ingredient sucks and recipe sucks whereas noise is not a recipe and it doesn't have ingredients". he is correclty rejecting what, contrary to elaborately crafted appearance, is a null cipher.
14:28 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 15:57 valentinbuza: probably. but i think that your argument is invalid because you say that "in TLS ingredients suck and recipe sucks" and "in Noise ingredients suck therefore the recipe also sucks"
14:28 mircea_popescu i want to take the time here and delve upon the recursion for your benefit.
14:29 mircea_popescu the point re thompson's compiler is easily misunderstood, in the sense of being conceptualized too narrowly. that unwarranted narrowness then permits you to handwave his objection re null ciphers in the actual technical discussion ; but look how you fell for an obfuscated null cipher yourself right here!
14:29 mircea_popescu the items are DANGEROUS, specifically because they exploit a fundamental weakness of the human brain. they're like guns to dodos, unperceived, deadly.
14:29 mircea_popescu does this make sense to you ?
14:33 mircea_popescu now consider the by now famous http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 and understand that the negative case WILL get the brightest minds. not once or twice, it's perfecrtly capable of getting you again and again and this doesn'rt even speak to how smart you are. how inexperienced at best, in terms of "not yet wounded by practical experience enough to systematically reject the null case".
14:33 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
14:41 mircea_popescu and in other life and times, i have a table out on a balcony overlooking the valley where i oft have breakfast. a week or so ago it gained a little wolf spider, he hunts on it. he's there every morning, and if i sit down to eat he leaves to hide in a crevice somewhere while the disturbance lasts.
14:41 mircea_popescu fucking cute biodiversidad already.
14:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701966 << more importantly, and more subtly, it sells you on the notion that "dh is a prerequisite for handshakes", which happens to be false. for one thing, you can shake a friend's hand without the usg being involved. for another, gossipd does not use dh for handshake. in short, the usgtardian nonsense is always there to distract you while it implants simpler points deep into the reptile b
14:52 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 16:04 spyked: loaded (because I don't use this day-to-day), I must consult these items in great detail. my guess here is that once I have spent all the time to learn, the "framework" becomes useless, because the mental framework is in place.
14:52 mircea_popescu rain. whole country runs as an advertising firm, "keep 'em talking about what color highschool uniforms should be, as long as they do they've already accepted they'll wear fucking pantsuits to school like retards".
14:53 mircea_popescu you should see the latina chicks btw. they're all in school-mandated, half-thigh pleated skirts and whatnot, different colors. it's a whole level of japan over here.
15:05 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eyMrD/?raw=true ; spyked http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xLR1Q/?raw=true
~ 23 minutes ~
15:29 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702369 <<< It's a Devil House!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_AR-VqQif8
15:29 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 18:53 mircea_popescu: you should see the latina chicks btw. they're all in school-mandated, half-thigh pleated skirts and whatnot, different colors. it's a whole level of japan over here.
15:33 mircea_popescu lel.
15:35 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, speaking of catholic latinas etc : the dispute between "progressives" and "christian fundamentalists" never ceases to amaze me. here you have two pantsuit groups which both agree with the fundamental pantsuit "every sperm is sacred". their disagreement is re when "every sperm is sacred" starts : the jesus pantsuit thinks it's at age -9 months ; the progre pantsuit thinks it's at - something, not quite 9 mon
15:35 mircea_popescu ths. say -5 months, -6 months, something like that.
15:36 mircea_popescu which, amusingly, makes the jesus pantsuits ACTUALLY MORE PROGRESSIVE than the new yorker crowd.
15:36 mircea_popescu somehow the participants manage to insulate themselves from these obviously very toxic facts
~ 23 minutes ~
16:00 BingoBoingo <r0nin-> theres no such thing as an economy without credit << There is no obligation to take on credit, or keep "revolving" credit accounts
16:12 mircea_popescu except of course wife wants house to lay eggs into because "all the other girls arew doing it"
16:12 BingoBoingo Then she can pick cotton, weave tent
16:13 mircea_popescu o noes! she'll just find different sucker then!
16:13 BingoBoingo Cool, 2x people to pick cotton nao
16:14 mircea_popescu trilema back live for whoever missed it.
16:14 mircea_popescu o and what a nice header day it is, too. or should i say moon.
16:15 BingoBoingo Eh, moon was so yesterday
~ 22 minutes ~
16:38 spyked mircea_popescu, ACK. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lavNS/?raw=true (hope this works, haven't done in a while)
16:52 mircea_popescu works fine.
~ 38 minutes ~
17:30 mircea_popescu mod6 done : http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#selection-115.56-119.1 ; though the header could prolly go to "The Real Bitcoin public node list" or something.
17:35 mircea_popescu ftr, only a coupla of those five actually work. i can connect to 46.166.165.30 regularly but can not connect to eg 108.31.170.49
17:36 mircea_popescu nor to 172.86.178.46
17:38 mod6 mircea_popescu: hey! cool. thanks for adding that in there. lemme look those IPs up quick.
17:39 mod6 Ok so this one is alf's zoolag: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694292
17:39 a111 Logged on 2017-08-05 22:43 mod6: <+asciilifeform> zoolag live as of now at ye olde 108.31.170.49 . << thanks for the update.
17:40 mod6 And as far as I know, that one is re-syncing.
17:40 trinque mircea_popescu: can't connect to deedbot's node eh?
17:40 mod6 Attention rest of the node operators: Can you vouch for your node being online? Ideally, it should have 95% or better uptime.
17:41 trinque "up 363 days"
17:41 mod6 fwiw, I almost never connect to these myself.
17:41 mod6 Occasionally when I'm trying to do a test or some such thing.
17:42 trinque looks like I've got 25 connections atm
17:42 mod6 Basically, operators are responsible for keeping the nodes going.
17:42 mod6 trinque: sounds good.
17:43 mircea_popescu ah the resyncing would do it yeah
17:43 mircea_popescu mod6 same here, may be too short sampling etc. will update tonight.
17:43 mircea_popescu trinque fwiw, a public node very rarely goes under 1-200 in my experience.
17:43 mod6 Ok, sure. Let me know how it goes.
17:44 mircea_popescu you may be experiencing forced drops or something.
17:44 trinque hm
17:47 trinque I'm connected to it myself from elsewhere, but who knows what's going on.
17:47 mircea_popescu and speaking of nodes and things, https://coin.dance/nodes
17:48 mircea_popescu and apparently https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 is back too
17:49 mircea_popescu trinque are you one block behind btw ? i think that might make this setup not count you
17:49 ben_vulpes mine has 30 connections atm
17:52 trinque 481639
17:52 trinque so yeah, looks like there's one ahead yet
17:53 mircea_popescu yeah ok. 640 came ~5 mins ago
17:54 mircea_popescu mod6 since these are public and publicly known, how about adding an irc name next to the ip ? so i know who to talk to.
~ 26 minutes ~
18:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702394 << it is zoolag, it is resyncing, and ( i assume everybody knows ) it is ~impossible to usefully connect to a trb node that is syncing
18:21 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 21:40 mod6: And as far as I know, that one is re-syncing.
18:21 asciilifeform ( block verify is blocking )
18:21 asciilifeform at 272303 nao
18:21 asciilifeform ( and counting )
18:22 asciilifeform prolly needs at least another wk before backinbusiness
18:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702389 << .30 is dulap/snsa
18:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 21:35 mircea_popescu: ftr, only a coupla of those five actually work. i can connect to 46.166.165.30 regularly but can not connect to eg 108.31.170.49
18:23 asciilifeform 49 zoolag
18:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702390 << for some reason i thought that one was mircea_popescu's
18:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 21:36 mircea_popescu: nor to 172.86.178.46
~ 35 minutes ~
18:58 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 since these are public and publicly known, how about adding an irc name next to the ip ? so i know who to talk to. << sure, working on the updates now...
19:03 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
19:03 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 481648 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 175 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 22 hours, 52 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
~ 24 minutes ~
19:28 mod6 Ok all: trinque, ben_vulpes, asciilifeform, pete_dushenski, mircea_popescu : I have updated the trusted-nodes page, please take a look and verify that the information for your nodes is correct, thank you! http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html
19:29 shinohai My node info is incorrect .... it is 0.0.0.0
19:29 mod6 :D
19:29 shinohai ^_________________^\
19:31 mod6 Also all, I have updated the howto page to link the trusted-nodes page as well: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html
19:43 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/08/austria-and-car-makers-conspire-to-cripple-600000-cars-already-sold/ << Qntra - Austria And Car Makers Conspire To Cripple 600,000 Cars Already Sold
19:44 BingoBoingo ^ From the between Berlin and Moscow department of departments
19:47 BingoBoingo A discovery on Infiltration from the department of web backups that are not https://archive.is/xbdld
19:55 BingoBoingo And then this discussion on the not quite backed up web in the comments http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8738&pr=1
19:56 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> and speaking of nodes and things, https://coin.dance/nodes << never saw this one before, pretty cool blurb there on trb.
20:01 BingoBoingo !~ticker
20:01 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 4082.0, Best ask: 4082.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 4082.0, 24 hour volume: 61725.61235773, 24 hour low: 3599.0, 24 hour high: 4141.9, 24 hour vwap: None
20:02 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
20:02 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4085.0, vol: 23523.06050423 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4080.1, vol: 61706.76853095 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4150.116401, vol: 24366.52680000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4113.9, vol: 10237.1837913 | Volume-weighted last average: 4098.18622466
~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
21:21 mircea_popescu mod6 looks much better nao yeah.
~ 17 minutes ~
21:39 mircea_popescu and speaking of http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html : are we making it bad form for l1 to not have a node up ? or waiting till next year ?
21:44 mod6 well, I think we should certainly encourage all to run a node. but yeah, maybe give it some time. my node is close, but 20k blocks behind currently.
21:44 mod6 "blocks" : 460662,
21:45 mircea_popescu aite.
21:46 mod6 I guess I'd like to see all of L1 at least have a trb node at least sync'ing by years end. That's a good goal.
21:51 mircea_popescu yeah.
21:51 mircea_popescu i mean, a trb capable machine is somewhere in the 50-100 bux / month range, certainly an expense but not the end of the world.
21:52 mod6 Yah. My node is like ~$60/mo.
21:53 mod6 To all L1 who do not have a TRB node yet, please start this process now-ish, and let me know if you need a hand standing one up when ready.
21:53 mircea_popescu l1 & aspiring l1 hehe
21:56 mod6 indeed ^
22:00 mircea_popescu and in other nodes, http://68.media.tumblr.com/fc2a8f443424459184707f9472b0e450/tumblr_nwn691yqQs1ujj1izo1_1280.jpg
22:02 whaack so..does the USD monthly fee estimates imply it doesn't matter if you posses the metal? and if it doesn't matter, what are the hosting suggestions/guidelines?
22:03 mircea_popescu lol @lafond "us military is called in to sort out what is left of america". here's the scoop : us military is <100k, most of which desk flyers, out of shape and combat-useless. ever since vietnam all the us army did was "consultancy", for locals willing to fight, where they could be found.
22:03 mircea_popescu us army trying to "sort out america" would last sixteen hours. provided they start early in the morning.
22:04 mircea_popescu whaack dun imply anything, you can surely put together older gear in your den or w/e.
22:04 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo wtf is his idea "us army vs us" is 1:100 odds ? it's 100:1 lol.
~ 23 minutes ~
22:28 mircea_popescu anyway. amateur hour.
~ 15 minutes ~
22:43 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702441 << lol! 'convened in #bitcoin-assets'. 'emergent consensus'
22:43 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 23:56 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> and speaking of nodes and things, https://coin.dance/nodes << never saw this one before, pretty cool blurb there on trb.
22:43 ben_vulpes http://archive.is/oxRxc << ...unions refuse "to accept responsibility for service disruptions that negatively affect the customers when we have no input on operational changes."
22:43 asciilifeform if that's 'pretty good', what does prettybad look like
22:43 ben_vulpes and totally aren't saboteurs either!
22:44 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: No idea what the concretes are beyond the admission that poverty is the condition of having a dysfunctional WoT
22:45 ben_vulpes whaack: suggestion is 'diversify'
22:46 ben_vulpes and recommendation ssd; although spinning rust not impossibru to get by with it ain't long for this world.
22:46 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> i mean, a trb capable machine is somewhere in the 50-100 bux / month range, certainly an expense but not the end of the world. << Negrodamus, i.e. 192.187.99.74 rents for less
22:48 BingoBoingo <whaack> so..does the USD monthly fee estimates imply it doesn't matter if you posses the metal? and if it doesn't matter, what are the hosting suggestions/guidelines? << A node is not a wallet, doesn't hurt to spread a few around.
22:48 asciilifeform if speaking of cheap nodez, zoolag costs ~0 ( aside from disks ) , i get fiber to the grounds regardless
22:49 asciilifeform ( if yer here, you too have a net pipe ! )
22:49 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VBlZA/?raw=true
22:52 * mircea_popescu has been staring at this log snippet incomprehendingly.
22:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform pretty bad what ?
22:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702441 >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-23#1702465
22:55 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 23:56 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> and speaking of nodes and things, https://coin.dance/nodes << never saw this one before, pretty cool blurb there on trb.
22:55 a111 Logged on 2017-08-23 02:43 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702441 << lol! 'convened in #bitcoin-assets'. 'emergent consensus'
22:55 mircea_popescu just some random website. what of it ?
22:55 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes is the contention union position is unreasonable ?
22:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hilariously wrong description of trb
22:56 mircea_popescu yeah well, im sure it's crowdsourced or w/e.
23:02 asciilifeform !~later tell ben_vulpes http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/gOIbx/?raw=true
23:02 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
23:08 pete_dushenski lol pretty sure i wrote that coin.dance blurb however many years back
23:15 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: gems in the linked piece in re bulldozer on tracks
23:20 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xwwuJ/?raw=true
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